Our Parenting Fails: And What We’d Do Differently Today w/ Tina Payne Bryson

Summary

Raising Good Humans: Episode Summary Title: Our Parenting Fails: And What We’d Do Differently Today
Host/Author: Dear Media, Aliza Pressman
Guest: Tina Payne Bryson
Release Date: July 4, 2025

---

Introduction: Embracing Imperfection in Parenting

In this heartfelt episode of Raising Good Humans, Dr. Aliza Pressman and her co-host Tina Payne Bryson delve into the realities of parenting by openly discussing moments when they fell short. The conversation emphasizes that even as experts, parents are human and susceptible to making mistakes. This candid approach aims to provide reassurance and practical insights to fellow parents striving to navigate the challenges of raising children.

Acknowledging Parenting Fails

Danielle sets the stage by introducing the episode's theme: recognizing and learning from moments when their responses as parents did not align with their professional recommendations.

[00:20] Tina: "It's also okay. But because we're human."

This mutual acknowledgment establishes a foundation of empathy and understanding for parents who feel they must be perfect.

Modeling Imperfection and Repair

The hosts discuss the importance of modeling imperfection and the ability to repair mistakes. This approach not only humanizes them but also teaches children valuable lessons about resilience and self-compassion.

[01:11] Danielle: "So we're also modeling it for you... self-compassion."

Tina's Story: Overwhelmed by Patience

Tina shares a poignant story about disciplining her three-year-old son, Ben, highlighting how her prolonged patience eventually led to an overwhelming emotional reaction.

[02:31] Danielle: "So now there's no opportunity for our kids to learn something about that behavior because we're too busy feeling the shame spiral of how we failed as a parent."

[05:25] Tina: "If you stick that tongue out one more time, I'm gonna rip it out of your mouth."

In this moment, Tina reflects on how her reaction shifted the focus from Ben’s behavior to her own feelings of failure, illustrating the cyclical nature of parental shame.

Danielle's Story: Shame in Public Setting

Danielle recounts an incident at her daughter’s birthday party where she reacted harshly, whispering through gritted teeth that her daughter's behavior was embarrassing.

[12:02] Danielle: "I fully gaslit her and I smiled and I said through your teeth... you're embarrassing me."

This moment of shame and subsequent repair showcases the long-term impact of parental reactions on children’s self-esteem and the importance of addressing such moments thoughtfully.

The Importance of Repair: Reconnecting After Mistakes

Both hosts emphasize that repairing the relationship after a disciplinary fail is crucial. Repair goes beyond a simple apology; it involves reconnecting and restoring the sense of safety and love in the relationship.

[35:03] Tina: "It's not just an apology. It’s about reconnection... safe, positive, predictable parent again."

Danielle shares a moving repair story where, after a major argument with her daughter, she and her daughter quickly reconnect, demonstrating the strength of their relationship despite the conflict.

[40:36] Danielle: "She just gave me a hug, and she was like, maybe she spent two seconds on it. And I said, I hope you know that I love you for exactly who you are."

Reflections and Insights: Learning from Mistakes

Tina and Danielle discuss the deeper lessons learned from these parenting fails, including the recognition of fear-based parenting and the importance of self-compassion.

[50:39] Tina: "The other thing I really try to do is get curious instead... what is getting in the way for me?"

This introspection helps parents understand the underlying fears and stressors that contribute to reactive behaviors, fostering personal growth and better parenting strategies.

Practical Takeaways: Strategies for Better Parenting

The episode concludes with actionable insights for parents to implement in their daily lives:

1. Prioritize Repair: After a mistake, focus on reconnecting with your child rather than dwelling on the error.
2. Cultivate Curiosity: When feeling shame, ask yourself what impeded your intended response and explore underlying fears.
3. Set Clear Boundaries: Establish and maintain boundaries early to prevent escalation during moments of low patience.
4. Embrace Self-Compassion: Acknowledge your imperfections and treat yourself with kindness to model healthy emotional regulation for your children.
5. Leverage Laughter: Use humor and lightness to diffuse tense situations and reinforce the resilience of the parent-child relationship.
6. Reflect Regularly: Consistently evaluate your parenting methods and be open to evolving and improving based on reflections and feedback.

[48:34] Tina: "Remember that our kids are so... good enough parent and getting in all the reps."

[50:17] Danielle: "Laughter is a really important feature of parenting... It leaves you in such a better state."

Conclusion: Building Resilient Relationships

By openly discussing their parenting fails and the subsequent repairs, Dr. Aliza Pressman and Tina Payne Bryson offer a refreshingly honest perspective on parenting. Their emphasis on repair, self-compassion, and continuous reflection serves as a valuable guide for parents seeking to foster strong, resilient relationships with their children. This episode reinforces that imperfection is not only inevitable but also an essential component of nurturing “good humans.”

---

Notable Quotes:

• [00:20] Tina: "It's also okay. But because we're human."
• [05:25] Tina: "If you stick that tongue out one more time, I'm gonna rip it out of your mouth."
• [35:03] Tina: "It's not just an apology. It’s about reconnection... safe, positive, predictable parent again."
• [50:17] Danielle: "Laughter is a really important feature of parenting... It leaves you in such a better state."

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a compassionate reminder that parenting is a journey marked by continuous learning and growth. By sharing their vulnerabilities and the steps they take to mend their relationships with their children, Dr. Pressman and Tina Payne Bryson provide invaluable support and guidance to parents striving to raise compassionate and resilient individuals.

Transcript

[Danielle]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Essentially, what we're doing in this episode is we're talking about moments when we responded or reacted in ways that we would not recommend.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

As experts. But we did as mothers and will continue to do. Because we. For two reasons. One, we really believe in repair and we really believe in not being perfect. We live that, I think, quite beautifully.

[Tina]

Yes, we do.

[Danielle]

But sometimes it's nice to hear that in the presence of having a lot of content knowledge, you are still susceptible on a daily basis to just doing stupid things. Yeah. And it's also okay.

[Tina]

It's also okay. But because we're human.

[Danielle]

Because we're human and it's really important and our kids definitely know we're human.

[Tina]

You know what? We reinforce that. There's no question that's what we are doing.

[Danielle]

That as a. In fact, it's intentional.

[Tina]

Yes, that's right. You know what we are modeling for them?

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Tina]

That they don't have to be perfect. And we're going to model repair for them.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

So we're also modeling it for you. Never looked straight at the camera. We're modeling for you how to be self compassionate. Because all of us, no matter what we know, are going to do this all the time. So we're just offering some of our own discipline in particular moments that we wish we could have a do over. And then we're gonna say what we would have done instead in the, you know, presence of a right mind.

[Tina]

Yes.

[Danielle]

And I'm gonna let you start, Tina.

[Tina]

Okay, sure. And. And this was one of those moments that's really, really common for me where I'm so patient. I'm patient, I'm patient, I'm patient, I'm patient, patient, patient until I lose it. I flip my lid and I act insane and my kids never, ever give me credit for the part. I was patient. And then that makes me even more crazy. It makes me want to be like, I'm gonna. I want a damn parade for my patients. In fact, everyone in the backyard, we're making a float right now. Like I can go really crazy because I'm like, I was so pat. Need credit. I don't want to medal for that. But the problem is when we act like that, which, and I'll share a story, is that then it becomes all about our reaction and our overreaction as opposed to what our. What the whole thing was really about was about our kids behavior.

[Danielle]

So now there's no opportunity for our kids to learn something about that behavior because we're too busy feeling the shame spiral of how we failed as a parent.

[Tina]

Yeah. And like we're filling up the space with crazy.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

Right. So when Ben was three and you know, this is before I wrote the whole Brain Child and it was my first. And Ben actually is such an introvert. He loved timeouts. And so one day he was just. I don't. He wasn't even dysregulated. I was. I don't even remember what was happening, but he walked over and he just hit me. And I was like, okay, well now. And it wasn't really time out, it was a time in. I said, come on, it's time to. We're going to go have a time. Time in. We're going to go take a break from that behavior. Right? So I'm sitting next to him and I start out really. And I mean, I would have hit me because this is so annoying. I was like, hands are for loving and for helping. Like, I was so cheesy, stupid. But he's three, you know, hands are for loving and for helping, not for hurting. And he just looked at me with his little tiny overbite, totally seeming in control of himself. And he hit me again. And then I said, so then I tried to go the empathy and compassion route. Ouch, that hurts. Mommy, can you be gentle? So I told him what he could do. Be gentle with Mommy. And he hit me again. So now here we are sitting, sitting at the bottom of the stairs, and the only thing I can think of. Cause now I have to escalate it a little more. Like I have to show him I'm serious. Because now we have a whole situation where I know I'm not supposed to go power and control, threat based. That ultimately doesn't ever end up working very well. But I have to do something, right? I can't just keep doing the thing I'm doing. So I come up with my stupidest idea, which is, well, now we're going to have time out at the top of the stairs. Who cares? Right? And he's just. I'm sure he was like, oh, that's interesting. We haven't tried that before.

[Lisa]

What are you doing?

[Tina]

So I take him up, I hold his, and I walk him up to the top of the stairs and I say, now we're going to calm our bodies down. And I'm like a little bit more intensity in my voice. And he hits me again. So all the part of me that's like, start, you know, in control is starting to evaporate. And I kind of bend over a little bit, and I start shaking my finger at him, and my eyes are bigger, and I'm a little more intense in my voice. And I say, you cannot hurt mommy. You do not hit. So I'm like. And he didn't hit me, but he kicked me in the shins really hard.

[Danielle]

And he's like, I didn't hit.

[Tina]

Yeah. He's like, totally. I'm following instructions, right? And that's so him. That's so him to be like, oh, I can. You know. And so I start just kind of yelling a little bit. I can't believe you did that. You can't hurt mommy's body. You need to. Whatever. Something's dumb that he wasn't listening to. And so he. He looked at me, and he stuck his tongue out. And I lost it.

[Danielle]

I felt that just now.

[Tina]

Yeah. And it's, like, escalating. Escalating. I've been patient, patient, patient, patient. But now I don't have any more patients left. So from a whole brain child perspective, my prefrontal cortex has now not integrated with the rest of my brain. And I flip my lid, and I threaten to remove a body part.

[Danielle]

Which body part?

[Tina]

I say, if you stick that tongue out one more time, I'm gonna rip it out of your mouth. Oh, my gosh. So he starts crying, and he collapses to the floor in a little puddle, and he says, you didn't make a good choice. And I'm like, you're right. And I just melted. But you know what? He hadn't been making good choices all along, but now the whole thing is about how mommy made a bad choice, right? So I did make a bad choice. So I dropped down and I held him, and I said, I'm so sorry I didn't make a good choice. That was scary. And I tried to help him make sense of it, and I repaired. But you also have to know that this is a kid who grew up with me as a mom who always probably did too much processing and too much storytelling. So we always talked about things after they happened. Blah, blah. So Ben was used to kind of doing that, which meant he shared that story with everybody. Everybody. So everybody. And mama said, I'm gonna rip that tongue out of your mouth.

[Danielle]

Oh, my God.

[Tina]

So lots of people got to learn that story. But I felt so horrible, Lisa. After it happened, I called my friend Ellen and I said, I am just. I feel so horrible. I scared him, you know? And she said, well, what happened? I said, I told her, and she said, oh, that's Nothing. And then she started sharing her stories with me, and she's like, I'm picking you and Ben up in 20 minutes. We're going to IKEA. We're gonna get meatballs. Which is kind of gross, but it felt very comforting at the time. And we're gonna let the kids play, and we're gonna tell all of our parenting hall of shame stories. So, yeah, that was, that was a good one.

[Danielle]

You know what is so funny is that you made the repair. So you answered the do over in a way, in, in the actual moment you did.

[Tina]

Yeah, but I would have done it differently.

[Danielle]

Okay, tell us a how you would have done it differently. And then. Well, just a.

[Tina]

Well, I mean, first of all, when he hit me the first time, I think I would have maybe just paused for one second and just said, is this something I need to address? Now, obviously, I want my kid to know you can't hurt other bodies. You have to practice impulse control. He's probably, you know, just turned three. And I, I, I should have just been a little bit more curious about what it was. Was he really just trying to get my attention? Was he hungry? You know, I little bit chased the why. What I wish I had done is address the behavior. Address any feeling that might have been behind it, like you're wanting mommy's attention or you're feeling frustrated or whatever it was in that moment and then moved the heck on. I think I should have just said, no hitting. Hitting hurts. So it's not permissive. Right. I've still said behavior and then said, you know, maybe you were frustrated. Were you feeling frustrated? It's okay to be frustrated, but it's not okay to hurt mommy. It's not okay.

[Danielle]

And then the end.

[Tina]

And then I might say, hey, I think I hear a bird outside. Let's go see if it's a big one or a little one. I don't know, whatever. Or let's get a snack or. I think I can skip. Do you think I can skip? Can you skip? I don't know. Whatever I could have made up in the moment, I think I gave way too much attention to the behavior, which just then made him be more and more, like, how far can I take this? These little scientists, you know, how far can I take this? And then I think the other piece around this, this is a discipline mistake I've made over and over and over, is not setting a limit early enough and just letting it go and go and go. I should have just changed until you, like, I should have let my body be close enough to him to let him hurt me. Right. I, I, I could have stopped that from happening by just being on the other side of the room. You know what I mean?

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

So, yeah, lots of mistakes there that I would have done differently.

[Lisa]

And now for a quick break. Let me tell you about Medtronic. A pioneer in healthcare technology, Medtronic is increasing awareness of heart health through the Letter to My Mother campaign. A new survey of women aged 30 to 50 who are often making family health care decisions showed nearly half, 45%, would rather discuss politics, money or relationships with their mother or grandmother before discussing family health history. And one third of women have not talked with a healthcare provider about their heart health. So why is this so important right now? Heart disease is the deadliest disease women aren't talking about. And symptoms for common cardiovascular conditions like hypertension, valve disease and heart attacks can go under diagnosed. Despite more than 60 million women in the US living with some form of heart disease, women tend to discuss sensitive topics like the birds and the bees and body image. But heart health for some reason is left out of the conversation at the doctor's office and at the dinner table. I think it is so important to talk about your health and your family history health and particularly between mothers and daughters. My kids maybe have heard too much of my talking about it because I think it's so important for them to feel like it's a normal part of their conversation. And it is so important to be able to live a healthier life. So for more information and to take the pledge to talk to your mother or a woman in your life about heart health, visit A letter to my mother.com I want to tell you about Resort Pass because it's super cool. Basically, it gives you access to the best pools, spas and cabanas in the best resorts and top hotels, but without an overnight stay required. How awesome is that? So Resort Pass has partnered with 2,000 plus luxury hotels, so there's always a dreamy spot nearby. There's no membership, there's no hassle. The passes start as low as $25 and you can book a day pass in under five minutes and turn an ordinary day into something unforgettable. What a cool new thing to have for summer. So join the 4 million plus people who've already taken a Resort Pass daycation. With 13,000 plus 5 star reviews, Resort Pass is here to make rest, celebration and self care easier than ever. Book for today or plan ahead. One day is all it takes to feel like your world's away. There's no boarding pass needed. And how great. It's just that time of year when it feels like you just need an escape. But when you have kids, an escape can be quite exhausting. Getting to the airport, flying somewhere, traveling the whole thing can be quite a lot. So the idea that there's just a one day vacation, I mean it just really gives you a way to find time for yourself. So. Visit resortpass.com humans and use the code humans at checkout for $20 off your first purchase. That's R E S O-R-T-P-A-S-S.com humans and use the code HUMANS for $20 off your first first order.

[Danielle]

I have a worse mistake.

[Tina]

Oh good.

[Danielle]

I think we can just keep one upping until we get to the point.

[Tina]

Where it's just wrong. Yeah.

[Danielle]

This is one of my. I really feel ashamed of this particular mistake with my older daughter. She was just about three.

[Tina]

Three? Yeah.

[Danielle]

She.

[Lisa]

We were at a friend's house, they.

[Danielle]

Were having a very small birthday party and she was being. She was acting out. Not even in a way that was particularly like, I can't even remember what she was doing. But she was not listening to me.

[Tina]

Basically, as three year olds do.

[Danielle]

As three year olds do. And I had. She was incredibly compliant and I was not used to this. And so I. And I felt like people were watching me. And so instead of not thinking about the fact that people were watching me, I whispered to her with such a terrifying wicked sound. But while looking calm as can be.

[Lisa]

So it was really scary.

[Tina]

Total gaslighting.

[Danielle]

I fully gaslit her and I smiled and I said through your teeth, but very much through my teeth. And I whispered, you're embarrassing me.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Which was like. So for some reason, to this day I don't even think she remembers this. But I tell her this a lot because I'm like. After that I was very clear with the girls. Your behavior and your humanity is not a reflection of me. I'm so sorry that I would. If I ever make you feel that way.

[Tina]

Yeah, you're not responsible.

[Danielle]

You're not responsible for me. But it, it, I could see that it scared her because she never. She was like fully changed in that at that party. But the way I did it was to manipulate with like I messed with her head.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And then there had been, there have been times after that over the years and even now where the girls will say things that are essentially like, if we do this, you'd lose your job. Like, they're like they feel pressure So I, and I'm very self conscious of it to the point where they call me a professional parent just to piss me off, just to like. Yeah, because they know that I'm so worried that they would feel that way. Very tender spot. And I, that day was very shameful for me. And what I wish I had done was said to her. It looks like this party is really overwhelming. Maybe we need to go sit somewhere and just get a little space from everybody and just not worried about how other people perceived my parenting. And the other thing is that I say to people all the time, I understand when we discipline our younger children that a lot of the time we're doing it in front of other people and so we're centering how other people will perceive us more than what our child needs. And yet. And so I'm like, in the long game, who do you care more about? You care more about how your child's is and how they grow. But I didn't. In that moment, I cared more about what other people thought. And I am just like, I mean the kid is 18, all's well, but I'm still like, I feel sick about that moment.

[Tina]

Well, you know what, I think that a couple things. One is, that's one of the 20 top discipline mistakes that we write in the appendix in. No drama. Discipline is parenting to an audience. That's one of the top ones. And, and really, you know, and sometimes it's really confusing for our kids. I mean, there's certainly been times where, you know, I was far more strict and reactive because other people knew that my husband's cousin judged me for being too, you know, emotionally responsive and not strict enough or whatever. So I'm trying to like prove whatever. And that's so confusing for our kids, you know, or like the opposite. Like if a parent's around you or me, they might be, let's talk about the feeling like kind of over narrate things and their kids like, why aren't you just grabbing my arm? You know what I mean? It's really confusing. So I think parenting to an audience often gets us in trouble. So that's a good one. The other thing I would say is that I think about if I read my 13 year old diary and I read it now and I was like, wow, I really believe all of this. Like, I feel really confident about who I am, you know, or like, look how wise I am. No, that would show that I have not evolved at all. When I read it, I'm mortified. It's so humiliating, right and what I have been saying to parents a lot recently is that if you never feel like crap as a parent, it means you're not reflecting, you're not being intentional, and you're not growing. So I think the very feeling of shame and the very feeling of, like that pit of your stomach, sick feeling means that you knew you've evolved, you know, you're thoughtful about that and that you have reflected on it. And we know from the attachment science that our ability to reflect like that is evidence that we're probably providing pretty good secure attachment protective factors for our kids. I think if you hadn't made that mistake. I've never thought about this before, but as you were telling the story, I thought that mistake that you made had a profound impact on the way you've parented ever since then. And we think about how do we know how humans learn? Number one is by doing something, doing it ourselves and making the mistakes, and then adjusting, monitoring and modifying kind of our behaviors. And the second way is by watching somebody else do it. Right. So I think the fact that you made that mistake actually made you a better parent. I've never thought about that before.

[Danielle]

You're right.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Thank God I made that mistake because then over the years, I was so much more conscious of it. I never want them to feel like they're somehow held to a different standard of behavior.

[Tina]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough in our jobs, you know, for that. And I've certainly had moments, like, I remember one time it was the kids, all three of them, swim lessons at the local community pool. You know, it's hot, we're running late. Somebody doesn't want to get in the water. You know, it's like stressful. Stressful. And loading the car, I don't know if I was loading up or unloading the people and the stuff. And I started yelling. And as I walked around, closed, slammed the door and walked around to get in my side, I saw two, like two or three moms standing there just watching me. And they knew who I was and what I did, you know, and I just waved and smiled and I was like, every day in the life of a parent, you know, you just kind of have to make it. But I worry about that with my kids. And I've. I always explicitly tell them, like, you, you know, you are not a reflection of me. You're your own person. And. And I hope that they feel that. But I think it's.

[Lisa]

It's tricky.

[Tina]

It can be really tricky. And I think, again, the research is so clear about that repair piece. Right. And so I think you need to.

[Danielle]

I didn't make a repair at the time.

[Tina]

Well, and she was three.

[Danielle]

She was three. And I did not make a repair. I just like, left the party.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And felt the shame. But my adult. My. My adult motherhood self, because I think we're born when our parents. When we're born as mothers, as you were, as our children were as a toddler mom.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I think I needed to just say something self compassionate instead of just being like, I can't believe I just did that. I know better. Why would I do that to her? And then I was so focused on that shame that I forgot to make the repair.

[Tina]

Right. Well, and that's the thing about shame, that. So, you know, there's a physiological manifestation of shame. So when you think about the feeling of shame, typically our chins turn down. Like we kind of turn into ourselves. We get this pit of the feeling stomach. Our chest often feels pressure. There's a physiological sort of sensation that goes with the feeling of shame. So anytime we ever notice that as parents, I think it's so. It's so easy to beat ourselves up. And even for decades, Right. For a long time, we beat ourselves up. So, yes. Compassion, forgiving ourselves, making the repair with ourselves and letting it go and be like, I was a young mom, I was learning, and I learned from that, and I worked really hard to not do it again. When we feel shame and we sit in it and we beat ourselves up, it actually makes us more vulnerable to losing ourselves, to flipping our lids and losing it again. So one of the things I really try to do is to get curious instead. So if I'm feeling that shame or if I'm like really beating myself up to say, okay, pause, I name it. I'm really feeling terrible about this. I feel sick. I can't believe I said that. Or I can't believe I did it. And I have parents who admit all kinds of things, things to me, you know, parents who say, like, their kids that I hate you. And they said, I hate you too. You know, things that feel really painful is to say, okay, wait, that's what I'm feeling. Let me get curious for a minute. And when we get curious, it pulls us out of that kind of like, shame sensation, and it allows us to engage our prefrontal cortex to do some problem solving and some reflection, which we know is so important for that insight and. And making a change. And the question I love to ask myself is, what got in the way for Me to be the parent I wanted to be in that moment. And asking that question, I think allows me to access more compassion for myself, because usually I'm like, damn it, I haven't peed by myself in four years, and I haven't had anything to eat, and I'm so tired, and I'm holding the weight of all this stuff, and I'm feeling really resentful toward my partner and my mom's in the hospital or whatever else is going on where you're like, God, that's a lot for a person. That's what got in the way. And then so sometimes it's circumstantial, and you can say, okay, what is it I need then to be the parent I want to be. And then other times, it can be bigger stuff, like, man, every time my kid rejects me, I act insane. And that's some work I might need to really spend some time and money dealing with, whether it's journaling or going to therapy. So getting curious can also help us detect themes for times we tend to be more reactive. And then we can. Once we become aware, we can start making a shift. And it's so great.

[Danielle]

I'm running through every single thing now. When we started this episode, all of 10 minutes ago, I was like, you're gonna have to do all of your parenting fails, because I would remember mine.

[Tina]

You knew they would come. Yeah. It's sort of. We've greased the wheels, and now we're gonna need a 15 hour.

[Danielle]

Now it's a session.

[Tina]

Exactly. Let's bring some professionals in here for both of us. I also think, too, it's so great our kids see us mess up. Right. And bring lightness and levity to it and modeling, repair and all that, because they're not perfect either. And if we were. If you were perfect, the pressure. That'd be too much pressure.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

So you're so nice to mess up so that your daughters don't feel so much pressure.

[Lisa]

And now for a quick break. So you've probably heard of a little thing called Venmo, but did you know that Venmo can be used for more than paying your friends back? Yep. Allow me to introduce you to the Venmo debit card, which lets you spend your Venmo balance in so many ways. You can Venmo this, that, and everything. Everything. Seriously, if you can shop for it, you can pay for it. So with the Venmo debit card, I can Venmo this mic I'm speaking into these headphones. You can't see the coffee sitting next to me. Everything. You get the gist because it's just great. So the Venmo Debit card unlocks all new ways to use Venmo. Got paid back for drinks? You can use your balance to pay for your ride home. Sold a pair of shoes. Use your balance to buy new ones. I mean, you get the gist, right? I mean, just today I used Venmo to pay a bill.

[Danielle]

I used Venmo to reimburse someone that got drinks.

[Lisa]

And I used Venmo to send money.

[Danielle]

To my daughter who's very far away from me.

[Lisa]

It's just like the best Venmo Everything with Venmo Debit Card Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more and sign up today. Of note Venmo purchase restrictions apply. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by Mastercard International Incorporated. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted and now for a quick break. So I can tell you about Wonder Factory. Wonder Factory is a new brand that is really leaning into how sensory play supports emotion regulation. And as a developmental psychologist, you know, I've spent years studying how children process big feelings. And I can tell you that tactile play isn't just fun, it's essential. It helps calm the nervous system. It helps improve focus. It helps it strengthens both cognitive and fine motor development. And when kids are free to explore with their hands, it becomes a powerful tool for creativity and emotional growth. And it's even helpful for language development. Wonder Factory's never dry dough and sand are truly unique. They're gluten free, non toxic, and as the name suggests, they never dry out, which means longer play sessions without the usual crumbles or cleanup battles. It's a win for kids and it's a win for parents. Wonder Factory also has these four in one tools that are just so intuitive.

[Danielle]

Kids have such independence.

[Lisa]

They can play, they can roll, they can stamp, they can connect, they can.

[Danielle]

Learn language and create stories and store everything all in one place. It's a thoughtful design that invites self.

[Lisa]

Guided play and builds confidence. You can find Wonder Factory exclusively at Walmart stores and Walmart.com and it's a brand that turns everyday play into something purposeful and a little magical because when their hands are engaged, their hearts and minds can thrive. Check out Wonder Factory can Can you.

[Danielle]

Please tell me something that you feel deep shame about so that I can feel better? Oh yeah, you don't need to say something you feel deep shame about but more like another.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Another scenario where you would do it differently and that would. And what you learned from that.

[Tina]

Yeah, I think the big. So there's sort of two main categories of shame for me. One is where I just lost it and I was scary. You know, I've told you the story about playing Yahtzee with my boys. They were like 7, 10, and 13. They were fighting. It was escalating. And I started getting sarcastic, which is, for me, the red flash, the yellow flashing light, like, yes, it's your alarm. And I didn't listen to it, but so I started with sarcasm, like, wow, family game night. This is the most fun I've ever had. This is such pleasant time with you. I love spending time with, like, just biting sarcasm. Right. But they kept fighting, and I ended up screaming at them and throwing the dice across the room, like, throwing things, you know, really lost it. And what I wish I had done there is set the boundary earlier and say, if you're fighting, it's not fun for me. If it happens, if it continues, I'm going to do something else and we'll be done playing simple.

[Danielle]

You know what I think is a running theme is that a lot of the things that a lot of the mistakes we make come from wanting so desperately not to make a mistake and being afraid to set boundaries because we don't want to ruffle feathers or we don't want to disappoint.

[Tina]

Right. Supposed to be family game time. And, yeah, you know, I don't want to take that away from this is important ritual important.

[Danielle]

I remember another one. There we go. I really got into meditation and mindfulness stuff when my kids were probably, I think, 5 and 8, and so I really felt strongly that they should also be meditating. And so we were doing a body scan in bed, the three of us, and they were giggling, as one does. And I really wanted to get through the meditative body scan that was going to relax us to go to bed. And I screamed at them, stop laughing. We're meditating. And then they. Luckily, they laughed at me. And I started laughing because it was so overtly, like, ridiculous sitcom moment, really.

[Tina]

It's so over the top.

[Danielle]

But I was so. So then, since then and to this day, when I try to invite them now I just invite them to meditate with me. They're like, sorry, stop laughing. Stop laughing. We're meditating. But it was really. It was just like those moments when you're just like, come on, man. The whole point, the bigger picture is lost.

[Tina]

Right, Right. Well, you know, I think so. Yeah. So the one category of just kind of losing it or not being really present to what matters. The other category for me, which is I think where I feel more shame is where I let my own internal sort of history and insecurities and fears take over. So it's like fear based parenting where I'm. I'm. It's really, really shame. My. I try like my child might feel, feel shame. So one of the stories that I remember is, and the history here, I'll say is that I have a younger sister. Two years and two months younger. She was. I was much more like I loved brain things like reading and learning and she was much more of like a physical, like she had a lot of physical intelligence. You know, she was stronger than I was, she was more coordinated than I was and she learned to ride a bike before I did and that was really embarrassing. She was younger, so. So even she, I now feel more shame. So she, she learned before me. And I was two years and two months older. And part of the reason I hadn't learned is I was, I was pretty anxious, you know, and I was like, don't let go, mom. Don't let go, mom. And then I would get nervous she was going to let go and then I would start wobbling and then I would fall and I was really averse of getting hurt. So I had a lot of anxiety around it. So all my friends and my sister's friends, like I was later, I didn't learn to ride until I was maybe like 9 or 10. I was older and that was embarrassing for me. So fast forward to Ben, who was also. Is also kind of a tentative, slow to warm up kind of kid who trying new things. Was anxiety producing for him. No, Luke actually would go head first in the bike without ever. I mean he basically stood up and then skipped walking and just went straight to running. Like he just, he was easy for drop offs. Like it was very different from Ben who really needed a lot of scaffolding and support and sometimes I was impatient around that. So Ben's friends are riding bikes and Ben's unsure about it and is taking longer and pouts and I don't want to learn, you know, all that stuff. And I remember in our backyard, I remember exactly the moment which is like shows how, you know, it makes such an emotional impression when his shame. And I said, you know, all of your other friends are already writing. I don't know why you're not writing. And it's so shaming. Like, who cares? First of all, if it's gonna take him another year.

[Danielle]

But you just were hearkening back to your wound.

[Tina]

Yeah, it was like my stuff that was coming out. So my own shame just basically like intergenerational transmission to shaming him. And in that case, it was a pretty direct correlation. I saw it immediately. I was like, oh, my God, that was. And sometimes we don't know. We don't know where that's coming from. Again, it might be around a theme like rejection or an insecurity, around something or a jealousy piece. But I. I think, though, that's a whole other category of stuff we could get into around parenting. Shame is where we shame our children out of our areas of woundedness or fears or insecurities. Yeah. Which is why we have to keep reflecting. And then we make.

[Danielle]

Yes. And the big picture here is that this sort of. The funny thing is that what we would do differently next time is going to be the same with every one of these. Because ultimately the reflection and repair is all we need.

[Tina]

Yeah, it is.

[Danielle]

Even if we couldn't pivot to respond the way that we wish we had.

[Tina]

Responded, Even if we couldn't prevent it. Right. It's not like in that moment, I'm going to say, now I'm going to slow down and get curious about what feelings I'm having on the inside before I open my mouth. Like, that's not really very doable unless you mind meditate a lot with a lot giggling. But. But it is. The. The. What I would do differently is, you know, is what I ended up doing is just the repair and to say, you know what, Ben, it doesn't matter when you ride your bike. And if your friends are riding, then that just means they're interested in riding and you're not quite ready to do that. You're not interested. And whenever you're ready, we'll pick it up and to just sort of release him from that and to say I'm sorry that I said that that was not kind of.

[Danielle]

I wonder if you would even say, depending on how he liked hearing your stories. Yeah, I took a while, too.

[Tina]

Yeah. Yeah, I probably did. I don't remember. But I like to share with them about my childhood. They usually love those stories. You know, they typically. Especially if I'm silly or didn't know something or, you know, that kind of thing. But I think it's just such an important reminder to us that the science out of attachment is really clear that when we do make those repairs, that it's actually beneficial for our Kids that we messed up. So that's a really good thing to remember. And then the second piece is, as long as we're reflecting, then we are improving and getting better. I had a. I had a parent recently asked me in an audience. It was literally in the last two weeks. So you're. You said, you know, I talked about repair. And he said, you know, you say repair, so what happens if we apologize, but. But we keep doing it?

[Danielle]

Yeah, that's a great. That's a great one.

[Tina]

Yeah. And I basically said, well, you know, just like, if your kid apologized but kept doing the same behavior, that's not okay. It means you're really not sorry or you're not able to make a change.

[Danielle]

Or you need a new skill, or.

[Tina]

You need a new skill. Right. You don't have it yet. Or. Or you need. You need a different context, or you need support in some way to do it differently. But I said to this dad, you know, as the grownup, if you make the repair but you keep doing it, your repair is not going to mean as much each time. And so you're not going to get those benefits. Right. And so the key is for you to do some serious reflection. And what is it that is. That is getting in the way for me to change my behavior? And it might mean something simple like you need more sleep because you're having trouble with impulse control in the moment. Or it might be something deeper that you need to really, like, build some skills around. Maybe you need to do some mindfulness, or you need. Depending on what the behavior is that you're repeating, and especially if it's behavior that's frightening to our children or harmful in a big way, then I would immediately go straight to therapy. Right.

[Danielle]

And I think just while we're talking about repair, and then I have a fantastic repair story.

[Tina]

Oh, good.

[Danielle]

I think it's important to acknowledge that a lot of people think repair is just, I'm sorry, sorry, but it's reconnection. And so some of the misunderstanding is that we think just an apology is the repair. Yeah, but that's not.

[Tina]

It's not. It really is. And I think you're the first person I think I heard say that, which is it really is about coming back into connection. And what that means, I think, is where you become like, I'll use Bruce Perry's language, safe, positive, predictable parent again. And if you just say you're sorry, but the kid, you know, is like, you're not safe or I don't feel connected to you again, it's not really a repair. It really isn't. And you're right. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be. Sometimes it's not even a verbal apology.

[Danielle]

It's not words, right?

[Tina]

It's not words. Sometimes I just make fun of myself. I'm like, well, that was ridiculous. And sometimes I bring in some playfulness, like, do you want to like act out what you just saw? Like, do you want to show me how ridiculous I looked? Or something like that. But sometimes it's just going up and getting close and like wrapping your arm and be like, I'm.

[Danielle]

That was crazy. That was lame.

[Tina]

Yeah, that was like. I don't know what that was. Like, I need a snack.

[Danielle]

I even think I need a snack. I even think those moments. This happens in couples too, where there is a tension, there needs to be repair. But the repair looks like you put something on TV that's funny, that you both share a laugh and you kind of go from further away on the couch to closer together on the couch. Nobody needs to say anything but you then hold hands and.

[Tina]

Right.

[Danielle]

You just know you're back.

[Tina]

Right. You're back. And probably that's what happened with your three year old bouncy house.

[Danielle]

We ended up.

[Tina]

Right.

[Danielle]

We just came back into reconnection, laughing and reconnecting.

[Tina]

And I think a three year old, you're not going to do a long, deep verbal conversation about it anyway, unless you need it. But I think it is, it's really back into the rhythm of the relationship again.

[Danielle]

Here's my repair story. I feel like I might have told you this already, so forgive me, please, but this is a podcast.

[Tina]

You've heard my stories a lot, so.

[Danielle]

This is for other people.

[Tina]

Okay, sure, I'll be, I'll bear witness.

[Danielle]

Thank you. Okay.

[Lisa]

Very.

[Danielle]

You know, within this last year, I think it was in the fall, I had. I was sitting at the dinner table with my daughters and they were being incredibly rude to each other. My older one said something and so hurtful to my younger one. And there is already a joke in the family that I'm more protective of my younger one because I'm a younger one too. I'm the youngest in my family. And so that's been sort of a joke, not a joke for years. And I really try hard, but it is true. If I pay attention, I notice that I for sure I'm noticing more the wrongdoing against one or the other. And it's usually I'm thinking about the younger one and this time my older daughter said something that I Thought was too. Too hurtful, too far. It was too far. So I screamed at her and I had a brawl. And we've never had one.

[Tina]

Wow.

[Danielle]

We've never had a back and forth brawl before where we're yelling. Like, that's just not my.

[Tina]

No, that's not your.

[Danielle]

It's not my thing. It's not my jam.

[Tina]

No.

[Danielle]

So I was already startling to her in that I was yelling and I was doing it back and forth because maybe at worst I yell and then my kids, they know that that is like that usually they'll laugh at me.

[Tina]

Or it's one and done.

[Danielle]

It's one and done. But it's certainly not a back and forth. But it was a back and forth and I was relentless. And my final thing that I said, the final blow, the final blow was essentially like I. I questioned who she was. You know, this isn't the person that I've raised. So I went right to the most shaming thing that you can do, which is it's not your behavior that was wrong, it's you that's wrong.

[Tina]

You know, like the exact opposite. Everything.

[Danielle]

Everything I stand for, everything I. And I stormed out of her room. I go into my room and I'm.

[Tina]

You're like. You're damaged at your core.

[Danielle]

Totally. I'm like, basically, that is. That was the tone. I'm sobbing with shame and I'm.

[Tina]

And angry probably.

[Danielle]

You were probably so mad and I was just so upset by this. And I'm like, this is this moment she'll look back on for the rest of her life where she says, this is when I knew my mother didn't feel really love who I am or something. And it will be just now. You're flooded with fear. So I'm terrified of how much damage I just did. In a moment, I call Colin and I'm like, I've done this horrible thing. I don't know how to. I don't know how to come back from it. It's the biggest fight we've ever had. I was just a mess. And he was like, well, what would you tell someone who called you to tell you the story? And I was like, ugh, everything I say is nonsense. It's. You know.

[Tina]

And I was like, I don't believe anything.

[Danielle]

I don't believe anything anymore. But he's like, no, but I think you would talk about repair, right? And I was like, please.

[Tina]

Like, you didn't want to in that moment probably yet either.

[Danielle]

I was just like, it's all. I'm full of shit.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

It's all nonsense. And this relationship, which is.

[Tina]

It's over.

[Danielle]

It's over. And it's so near to the end of her time in my house, which.

[Tina]

By the way, I'm sure is part of.

[Danielle]

And about. I don't know, could have been 10 minutes, could have been 20 minutes, could have been an hour. At some point. Not me, but she walks into my room, and she looked at me, and she just said, you're probably wanting to make some repairs right now. And I said, I am. I am.

[Tina]

Oh, my gosh.

[Danielle]

And she.

[Tina]

That's so sweet.

[Danielle]

She just gave me a hug, and she was like, maybe she spent two seconds on it. And I said, I hope you know that I love you for exactly who you are. And that was just, like, my crazy coming out. And she was like, I know.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And then she started telling me a story about something completely unrelated that's going on in her life, and it was nothing. It was a nothing burger. And in that moment, I was like, damn, repair is real. Like, we have a strong foundation of a relationship. She is not questioning my love for her. I made a mistake.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

We made a repair, and we move on. And so even though I say that, I was, like, questioning its validity, and then I felt it, and I knew, and I was like, oh, thank God. Like, this is real. This is not fake news.

[Tina]

I love that story. That's my story. I love that story so much. I got emotional as you were talking about it because it is evidence of, like, all the reps over and over and over of her. Of you repairing with her the reps. Yeah. She knew that was the rhythm of what was gonna come next. There was a predictability about it that allowed her to be resilient relationally with you even in the midst of this horrible, messy, awful conflict, but also the many, many millions and millions of reps of her knowing you love her for who she is. So when that came out, it was a big nothing. It didn't even stick. It was like, she's crazy.

[Danielle]

She wasn't even sick. She was just like, my mom is going crazy right now. She'll be back.

[Tina]

It's like if you have had a thousand pancakes and you love them and they're, like, your absolute favorite, and you eat a pancake one time because then there's a little bit of eggshell in it or it's too salty, and you're like, ooh, this is gross. You don't decide. I hate pancakes. It's like, Tina Kane Bryson, I really love pancakes. I don't let my son eat them very much.

[Danielle]

But that was a fantastic metaphor.

[Tina]

Right? So it's like, oh, this one. This one sucks. This pancake sucked. And you throw it in the garbage. But it doesn't change how you feel about pancakes.

[Danielle]

Certainly not. And I appreciate that you used pancakes because we all love pancakes. And there's no way that a few bad pancakes is gonna make anybody think that they don't love pancakes.

[Lisa]

No.

[Tina]

No. So I love that story so much. I think it's so beautiful that you shared it, because we all have moments like that, and I think.

[Danielle]

Or everybody's like, God, she's abusive.

[Tina]

You know what? If they are? They're probably not being real with themselves. So I think that is, in a way, it's evidence of. Of relationship you guys have with each other that you could do that. You know what I mean?

[Danielle]

No, it's a. I realized in that moment, like you said, with reps, we have done so much working out that we did not injure ourselves. Yeah.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And I just. I think it's important for us to remind ourselves that this stuff is real so that we don't do what I did, which was think that I've thrown away 18 years of a relationship.

[Tina]

Right.

[Danielle]

Because I lost my cool and said something terrible.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I'm not. I don't think people should do that.

[Tina]

No. I mean, I force ourselves. It just happens.

[Danielle]

But it will. Something will emerge that is a mistake that feels too big to come back from.

[Tina]

And the relationship is so hearty that that was just a little tiny moment. It really didn't, you know, and you guys will laugh about it. You know, remember that time, whatever. And then when she's a mom and.

[Danielle]

She has a moment like that, I will remind her.

[Tina]

I'm sure you or her sister will. You know, I think about what you're saying here makes me think about John and Julie Gottman's work for couples around how, like, for every one negative interaction of criticism, stonewalling, you know, the things that are, like, not a good interaction, we need five kind of positive reps to kind of keep things going in the right direction. And I feel like with her, you had 500 million positives for that one. You know, when you think about how she feels, about how you feel about her and all of those things. So I love that story. I think it's so important that we share real moments like that, because that's human. Relationships are messy. Sometimes we trigger each other. Sometimes we annoy each other. And I don't think it is at all coincidental that it happened the senior.

[Danielle]

Year, the year that she's going off to college.

[Tina]

You know, needing to differentiate, you know, she. She pushed back and fought back in a way you hadn't seen her do. And how great that, you know, she can. If she gets into a verbal altercation with someone you were letting her get, she can be a real.

[Lisa]

She's.

[Tina]

She's got some scrap in her. She can be scrappy, and that's good. She has that skill. So you were giving her some reps there.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

It's important that we are real about it. Yeah.

[Lisa]

And now for a quick break. I'm talking about Wayfair right now because I just bought a bunch of stuff on Wayfair because I was searching for ways to make my outdoor space feel a little bit warmer and more fun for summer. And I got everything from outdoor trays so that I can carry drinks and snacks out to outdoor glasses that won't shatter all over the patio. And whatever your style is, mine right now is some combination of rattan and metal and striped because I'm feeling beachy. But whatever your style is, Wayfair has it. You can do a whole outdoor seating gathering as well. You've got the Adirondack chairs, the club chairs, the lounges, the conversation sets, outdoor sofas. You can end up falling fast asleep while you're socializing. I'm also adding patio cushions because I got really hard chairs and didn't think about that at first. But they have great patio cushions with stripes, which is my mood right now. There is just something for every style and every home. So don't wait. Make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Okay, I want to tell you about this sponsor Daily look, because I really need a uniform, but a uniform is kind of boring. And so what I really realized was that having someone else have a sense of what my style is and then make suggestions by sending me a box and then letting me send them back if I don't like them was kind of a dream situation. I'm busy, but I want to look good. I don't like to go shopping, but I want new clothes. So anyway, Daily look has really found a little niche there because it's the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. So you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape, your preferences, your lifestyle. It's not an algorithm. You actually fill out some forms that are super, super easy and they get it right every time. And you can try up to 12 premium pieces per box in the comfort of your own home. Saves you time, saves you effort. Send back what you don't like. DailyLook has you covered. I'm so into it. And their mission is just to elevate your style and make it easy for you to look chic. So it's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use the Code humans for free. 50% off your first order. Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 50% off. And make sure you use the Code Humans so that they know I sent you DailyLook.com promo code HUMANS.

[Danielle]

We've gone over some moments that we both recognize and have reflected on and are not super excited about. But what are the takeaways? What are some practical takeaways from paying attention to the moments that we feel a little less than about?

[Tina]

Yeah, I mean, the ones we've already talked about are repair, repair, repair. Right. And I'll just take a little side moment to say when you didn't feel like you were. You were like, I don't want to go repair. Pay attention to that because it means you're not ready yet. That you're too. You're. You're still in such a reactive state that you can't access empathy yet. You're still in kind of threat mode. And so if you go try to make a repair before you're ready, you're vulnerable to getting back into it.

[Danielle]

And then you double down on the harm that you are so upset about.

[Tina]

So I think, you know, when you are in a reactive state, you really can't access that kind of empathy and insight and attuned communication that's needed for reconnection. So I think pay attention to that. That's really good. So hold that in mind for repair. We've also talked about the idea that after these moments to get curious instead of sitting in the shame to get curious. What is it that got in the the way for me? What did I notice? Is there a theme that's coming up? What do I need for myself to kind of have a little bit more emotional agility and equanimity to stay calm and at peace? I think the other piece that's super important is to Remember that our kids are so let me say it this way. Now we can be intentional about what are the reps we want to give our kids over and over and over that counter, some of the messaging or shaming that we might be doing. And to remember that, put it in the big picture and kind of step outside and remember there's a lot to be said about being a good enough parent and getting in all the reps. I always think about how when you with your first kid, you're worried about how much food they're eating in a day and you call your pediatrician and they're like, just think about how much they're eating in the week. You know, So I think about over the course of the year, has my kid had enough really good positive reps around how I feel about them?

[Danielle]

All these other things, I think another takeaway is that laughter is a really important feature of parenting. Laughter within ourselves. And it's a big feature of repair. And that in and of itself, in the absence of any words or anything, it leaves you in such a better state.

[Tina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle]

What else?

[Tina]

Well, one thing that hasn't come up yet. I don't think the word has come up, but I think for me, another really practical takeaway is the idea of fear based parenting. That a lot of times the, the times I'm not that I parent ways that I look back on, like, what was I thinking? What was that about? There's almost always a fear underneath it. And so if I can get clear on what am I really afraid about, it's usually a totally irrational fear.

[Danielle]

Yeah, like the bike story.

[Tina]

Yeah, like if he doesn't, like really, if I start chasing that out, it's like, well, if, if he doesn't ride bikes, then his friends aren't going to want to play with him and then he's never going to make friends and then he's never going to learn how to date and he'll never have children and no one will ever love him. Right. So it's like you chase it out. It's kind of he doesn't know how.

[Danielle]

To ride this bike today with everyone. No one will ever love him, ever. And. But I think if you could tease that out and go from like the moment, walk through and then just land at that other very extreme irrational fear. It does sound so extreme that it can take you out of it.

[Tina]

Yeah, I think that's right. And then the other thing I would say is share, like, share those, these moments you and I are sharing with the world. Share those with Your partner, share them with your, you know, your friends. I think when we talk about them.

[Danielle]

So relieving it.

[Tina]

Yeah. It gives us. It gives us the ability to laugh at ourselves. We hear from someone else, like, oh, my God. Like when my friend was like, oh, my gosh, that's nothing. I was so wicked. Here's what I said this morning. It makes me feel more human and more connected to other parents, but it also forces us to kind of reflect a little bit more. And I think reflection is a huge piece without. Dan Siegel says, without awareness, we don't have a choice. So when we reflect.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

Then we can say, okay, when that scenario comes up again, what might I do differently? Or how could I prevent it from getting there? So. And I think that's another big takeaway that's very much discipline related, is maybe setting boundaries earlier.

[Danielle]

Oh, yes.

[Tina]

Considering our own. Considering our own limits. Our own capacity. Because sometimes I have capacity to be patient for a really long time, and then other times I don't. I used to say to my kids, when they were really little, mommy's patients used to be the size of a watermelon, and then it was the size of a Camelot, and then. And now it's a raisin. It's dried up and teeny tiny. So I only have this much patience left, and so I really need cooperation. So, anyway, thinking about prevention, too, and what we can stand, I think if I know I'm having a day where I'm not very patient, I should set a limit sooner because otherwise I'm vulnerable.

[Danielle]

I think reminding ourselves what, you know, what size our patience is allows us to decide earlier on how to set those limits. And it really does protect everybody.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Even though it feels like maybe you're being too rigid. Yes, that is the word, Tina. So even if it feels like you've decided, okay, my patience is at raisin level. I need to be super rigid with my limits because I'm protecting everybody and myself.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

The rigidity that you think is terrible.

[Tina]

Is probably far better than the alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think giving ourselves permission. And sometimes it's the opposite. Like, you've set a limit, and then it's turning into something, and you're kind of like, was it worth it?

[Danielle]

Who cares?

[Tina]

But I do want to say it's totally different to say, okay, fine, you can, you know, and give in. That's not what we want to do. Because it teaches our kids. If you just keep pushing, you get what you want.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

Totally different from saying, you know what? I've thought about it. Let me look. Yeah, we have some extra time. I'm changing my mind. Where you're still in charge, that's a totally different thing. And then the other thing that I think is helpful for prevention. So more rigid, maybe more flexible, depending on what your bandwidth is. The other thing I think it's really, really protective is the idea of giving yourself permission to not handle something in that moment.

[Danielle]

Yes, yes, you can come back to it.

[Tina]

So unless someone is in danger. So if there are safety, you know, if your kid is hurting themselves, hurting someone else, damaging property, they're not safe, then you, you know, you have to deal with it right then and there. But most of the time to say, I'm, I am not going to handle this well right now, I'm going to put a pin in this. I'm going to come back later. Give yourself permission to wait and deal with it later. And you know what? The truth is, we don't have to address every single behavior every single time. I mean, if my husband brought up every single thing I did that he wished I did differently or whatever, I would hate him.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Tina]

You know, it's too intrusive, it's too much. And I know it's different relationship with our kids, but they're going to give you a million times to shape that behavior and address that behavior sometimes for your own boundaries.

[Danielle]

Just let it go.

[Tina]

Let it go, let it go.

[Danielle]

I let everything go in the morning.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

I just don't.

[Tina]

They know that probably too, don't they?

[Danielle]

Yes, I know. I just am like, I'm not going to take mornings personally because I don't want to. I don't want to make something worse than it already is. Like a morning teenager just feels like I kind of laugh at some of the things that are said when we wake up in the morning. Or I'll say something like, ah, it's so. Feels so good. I feel so good to see you guys in the morning. But I'm so thrilled to see them no matter what. But I also am just so well prepared that sometimes morning things, everybody's just a little bit like groggy and grumpy and it's not the time.

[Tina]

No.

[Danielle]

To really think about anything. But sort of like, let's just get out the door and do our thing and really people.

[Tina]

And people can go listen to the episode you and I have already done on discipline and challenging behaviors.

[Danielle]

It's called everything you need to know about discipline.

[Tina]

Okay, good. You have to think like, are they ready to learn? And listen Are they receptive and am I ready to teach and build skills? Am I receptive? If the answer is no to either one of those, it's not the time.

[Danielle]

It's not the time. Which is why morning is not my time.

[Tina]

Give yourself permission to not deal with it right then and there. Cause oftentimes our first instincts are not our best anyway.

[Danielle]

Say that again.

[Tina]

So a couple of times. When teenager behavior, really big things, things that frightened me too big of risks, my first response in the moment was not gonna be good. It was gonna be too fear based, too reactive. And especially pulling on things from my history, from my childhood that would make me really reactive. So much better to say, I really wanna think about how I wanna address this so we'll talk about it later or I wanna talk to dad. I had the bandwidth to think about what do I really want to say, what do I really want to communicate in as few words as possible. Teenage boys. Then I could come back and say, and this was a good one, it was for my kids protection. I'm not going to say what it was, but it was a big risky behavior that was not allowed. And so then I could come back and say, my kid said, I'm so sorry I broke your trust. And I said, you have made so many deposits in the account of trust, you took a huge withdrawal here and you haven't broken my trust, but you've really bent it. And the good news is you can do things to add deposits back into that account. And let me show you, let me tell you exactly what that looks like for me. I need to know where you are. So if the plans change, I want a text saying, we're now going over to here, now we're going to get Chick fil A, you know, whatever. So I kind of laid out here are the things that help make deposits in that trust fund again. And really they were just tighter parameters on the behavior. It was less freedom. So I could have gone in and said, I'm taking all your freedom away. Now you're not. But that wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective. Because then they're like, you're so mean, you're trying to take away my autonomy.

[Danielle]

And then again it refocuses what happened. And I think I just wouldn't have.

[Tina]

Handled it well in the moment.

[Danielle]

It was better to wait for adolescents. I feel like that is just in general, unless it's imminent danger. We are so served by saying, I need to think about how I want to.

[Tina]

And that's good modeling too, right? To say you want to be thoughtful about your responses. And there's a little bit of an added benefit. And I know this is like totally opposite of what I teach because I am anti punishment, but there is something that.

[Danielle]

Of their terror.

[Tina]

Yeah, I take a little bit of pleasure, if I'm being honest. I take a little bit of pleasure in the fact that I know my kid is sitting in the discomfort of that, waiting for the conversation. And I can really hearken back to that feeling as a childhood waiting for my dad to get home, who was kind of scary. I shouldn't take pleasure in that, that they're sitting in that discomfort. But I also know I'm going to over narrate it from a brain perspective that what is unpleasant, we want less of. Right. And so if they're sitting in that discomfort, that's probably the most powerful thing to change behavior. More than anything I do, more than anything I say as a parent is, that's a good consequence of that is having to sit in and wait and wait for the resolution, wait for the repair.

[Danielle]

I love that.

[Tina]

Please note that this episode may contain.

[Danielle]

Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[Lisa]

Individuals on the show may have a.

[Danielle]

Direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.