The Secrets of Adulthood & How to Teach Them to Our Children w/ Gretchen Rubin

Summary

Raising Good Humans: The Secrets of Adulthood & How to Teach Them to Our Children with Gretchen Rubin

Episode Release Date: March 21, 2025

---

Introduction

In this insightful episode of "Raising Good Humans", Dr. Aliza Pressman welcomes Gretchen Rubin, a multiple New York Times bestselling author known for her impactful work on happiness and personal development. The episode delves deep into Rubin's latest book, "Secrets of Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives," exploring how these concise aphorisms can guide both adults and children through the nuanced journey of adulthood.

Gretchen Rubin's New Book: "Secrets of Adulthood"

[02:03] Gretchen Rubin:
"I thought it would be really helpful for other people listening, thinking about this transition from parenting a child to parenting a young adult."

Rubin discusses her motivation behind writing "Secrets of Adulthood," aiming to encapsulate hard-earned life lessons into memorable, one-line sayings. These aphorisms serve a dual purpose: providing guidance to her daughters as they transition into adulthood and offering timeless wisdom to her readers. Rubin emphasizes the power of brevity in conveying profound truths without sounding preachy, making the insights both relatable and actionable.

Key Aphorisms and Their Significance

1. Accept Yourself and Expect More from Yourself

[07:12] Gretchen Rubin:
"Accept yourself and also expect more from yourself. Both are true."

Rubin highlights the delicate balance between self-acceptance and self-expectation. She explains that while it's essential to embrace one's inherent traits and limitations, it's equally important to push beyond comfort zones to foster growth and prevent complacency. This duality is foundational in authoritative parenting, where caregivers provide both warmth and high expectations, cultivating resilient and motivated individuals.

2. Love is Unconditional and Love is Demanding

[12:36] Gretchen Rubin:
"Love is unconditional and love is demanding. Both are true."

Addressing the complexities of adult relationships, Rubin explains that genuine love encompasses acceptance without conditions while simultaneously encouraging personal excellence. This paradoxical nature of love ensures that while individuals feel supported as they are, they are also motivated to strive for their best selves.

3. The Opposite of a Profound Truth is Also True

[12:36] Gretchen Rubin:
"The opposite of a profound truth is also true. Both are true."

Rubin discusses the inherent contradictions in life, emphasizing that seemingly opposing truths can coexist. For instance, [12:50] Gretchen Rubin:
"Absence makes the heart grow fonder and out of sight, out of mind. Both are true."

This aphorism captures the nuanced understanding that proximity can both strengthen and weaken relationships, depending on the context.

4. We Care for Many People We Don't Particularly Care For

[13:13] Gretchen Rubin:
"We care for many people we don't particularly care for."

Rubin touches on the social and professional obligations we maintain, even towards those we might not have deep personal connections with. This truth underscores the importance of compassion and professionalism in everyday interactions.

5. Don't Expect to Be Motivated by Motivation

[14:22] Gretchen Rubin:
"Don't expect to be motivated by motivation."

Challenging the traditional notions of motivation, Rubin clarifies that intrinsic and extrinsic motivations are often overstated. Drawing from her Four Tendencies framework, she explains that obligers—the group most people fall into—thrives on external accountability rather than internal motivation. [15:00] Gretchen Rubin:
"If you're an obliger, you respond to outer expectations but not to inner ones."

This insight is particularly relevant for parents aiming to foster independence and responsibility in their children.

6. What We Do Most Days Matters More Than What We Do Once in a While

[16:43] Gretchen Rubin:
"What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while."

Rubin emphasizes the significance of consistent daily actions over sporadic efforts. Whether it's maintaining a regular exercise routine or managing responsibilities, steady habits contribute more substantially to long-term success and well-being.

7. You Can Be Good at Something Without Being Good at Something

[18:05] Gretchen Rubin:
"You can be good at something without being good at something."

Addressing the misconception that mastery requires excellence in all related skills, Rubin provides examples of individuals thriving despite lacking in specific areas. [19:18] Gretchen Rubin:
"Dolly Parton and Paul McCartney can't read music, yet they excel in their fields."

This aphorism encourages embracing one's unique strengths and finding alternative paths to success, a valuable lesson for both parents and children navigating their ambitions.

8. The Place That Hurts Isn't Always the Place That's Injured

[28:00] Gretchen Rubin:
"The place that hurts isn't always the place that's injured."

Drawing parallels between physical and emotional pain, Rubin illustrates how underlying issues can manifest in unexpected areas. This insight aids in understanding and addressing the root causes of challenges rather than just the symptoms.

9. Don't Expect to be Motivated by Motivation

[14:22] Gretchen Rubin:
"Don't expect to be motivated by motivation."

Reiterating her earlier point, Rubin further elaborates on the necessity of external accountability for maintaining commitments, especially for individuals who naturally respond better to external expectations.

Insights on Parenting Through Aphorisms

Throughout the conversation, Dr. Pressman and Rubin explore how these succinct truths can be integrated into parenting strategies. By distilling complex ideas into memorable lines, parents can impart wisdom without resorting to lengthy lectures. [43:03] Dr. Aliza Pressman:
"I love how they capture something so clear."

Rubin's aphorisms serve as guiding principles that parents can easily recall and share, fostering a nurturing environment that balances acceptance with encouragement.

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Both hosts share personal experiences that resonate with Rubin's aphorisms. Dr. Pressman recounts her struggle with overextensive communication, realizing the power of brevity in conveying meaningful thoughts. [06:49] Gretchen Rubin:
"Procrastination through work is one of the most dangerous forms."

These stories illustrate the real-life applicability of Rubin's teachings, emphasizing their relevance across various aspects of life, from professional settings to personal relationships.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a mutual appreciation for the depth and simplicity of Rubin's aphorisms. Dr. Pressman expresses excitement about incorporating these truths into her parenting toolkit, while Rubin highlights the creative satisfaction of distilling complex lessons into concise, impactful statements. [44:28] Gretchen Rubin:
"Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services."

Listeners are encouraged to explore Rubin's "Secrets of Adulthood" and integrate these simple truths into their lives and parenting practices, ultimately striving to raise resilient, thoughtful, and well-rounded individuals.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Gretchen Rubin [07:12]:
  "Accept yourself and also expect more from yourself. Both are true."

• Gretchen Rubin [12:36]:
  "Love is unconditional and love is demanding. Both are true."

• Gretchen Rubin [14:22]:
  "Don't expect to be motivated by motivation."

• Gretchen Rubin [16:43]:
  "What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while."

• Gretchen Rubin [18:05]:
  "You can be good at something without being good at something."

• Gretchen Rubin [28:00]:
  "The place that hurts isn't always the place that's injured."

• Gretchen Rubin [43:03]:
  "I love how they capture something so clear."

---

This episode offers a treasure trove of wisdom for parents seeking to navigate the complexities of raising children into competent and compassionate adults. By embracing Gretchen Rubin's "Secrets of Adulthood," listeners can equip themselves with the tools to foster a supportive and growth-oriented environment for their children.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Welcome to Raising good humans. I'm Dr. Aliza Pressman and I'm so excited for today's episode with Gretchen Rubin, who is a multiple New York Times bestselling author and has an awesome podcast called called the Happiness Project. She wrote a new book called the Secrets of Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives, which I was particularly drawn to because I have an 18 year old who's about to graduate and there was so much wisdom packed into these tiny concise sentences. So I am giving it to my daughter and all of her friends upon graduation. But also they're like really helpful to get you thinking about very concise ways to pass along helpful tips without being the annoying lecturer. So I loved having her. There are lots of the aphorisms coming up in today's episode. If you enjoy this episode, don't hesitate to write a little review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps me so much, anything at all, even if you just say keep doing what you're doing and I'm going to start doing episodes that are very short that just answer one listener question. So send your questions to my DM on asingoodhumans podcast or click on my profile and send in an email question and hopefully we'll do an episode with your question. As always, you can get my book the five Principles of Parenting, your essential guide to raising Good Humans. And sign up for my free substack doctoralizapressman. Substack.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Com.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

So I have a daughter going off to college. So I'm really excited about this book and I. Yeah, I mean this is. I feel like you did this for me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Uh huh. Good.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And I thought it would be really helpful for other people listening thinking about this transition from parenting a child to parenting a young adult. We have a lot of wisdom, but it's really hard to capture it in tiny bites so that we're not like lecturing so that it's sort of in the water and it's not, you know, our wisdom. And I think that's what you're solving for, among other things. But I wanted to hear a little bit about that from you and then pull some of your goodies.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. Well, Secrets of adulthood. Yeah, I thought I'll try to capture the lessons that I've learned the hard way and try to pass them along to my daughters to try to spare them some of the hard lessons that I learned. But just as much I wanted to remind myself of what I learned because I don't know about You. But I just keep learning the same lessons over and over and over. You know, like, working is one of the most dangerous forms of procrastination. I mean, I remind myself of that like once a week. So it's. So it's for my daughters and it's for me, and it's really for anybody sort of trying to deal with all of the challenges of being a grownup. And I tried to write them as aphorisms, as like these one liners, because first of all, they're. They're more persuasive and more memorable because they're short, kind of punchy. And also I just feel like in order to understand what I was thinking clearly, it really, like forcing myself to really try to distill it clarified my thinking. Like there were things, there are aphorisms, secrets of adulthood that I wrote that it, you know, they're one sentence. And it took me months and months and months and months to understand what I was trying to say and then to be able to convey it concisely. But I don't know about you, but, you know, sometimes you will read just a single line and it will illuminate some big problem or show you the way forward or give you some insight about somebody else. And so I love it when I read a sentence like that. And I like it even better if I write a sentence like that. So I'm hoping that Secrets of Adulthood will give people, you know, some useful insights as they read.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

That is how I read. I read to search for aphorisms. And I don't think I realized it until you just said that, like, even in my book, the start of every chapter is a sentence from someone else's book in life in literature, not in just one topic. That just stuck with me for decades, probably. And I finally had a place to capture.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Essentially what I was trying to get at in one much more beautifully simple statement. I want to go through some of your aphorisms, but I also curious, like, how do you. Because I struggle even in the way that I'm asking this question. I am. I use a lot of words.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Like, if I were my own editor, I would just, I could just cross out 90% of them. And I think parents just. The challenge of being a parent is like, we need to say way fewer words.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, yes, I completely agree. I, I realize this about like reminders that it's better to say something like, you know, shower rather than, when are you going to take a shower? Are you going to take it now? Are you going to take it later like you said you would, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just, just try to just say one word. Or maybe like with my husband sometimes I'm like, I, it's it the way that we divvy up tasks. One of my thing is if we have to drop off prescription bottle to be refilled and if he just leaves it out on the counter and I'm like, nobody has to say anything. Nobody has to write a note. It's just like this, this little wordless act. Yeah, I think sometimes there's just too many orders flying around, too many reminders, too much nagging. It's just nobody wants to hear that.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I just this morning to just acknowledge a moment where I, after I did it, I thought, God, I would say I'm absolutely about to have a conversation with Gretchen about just sort of getting those, just making those words a little bit more powerful, more bang for your buck there. But I wrote a text to my daughter who doesn't have a phone at school, but I just had to get this thought out and it was so long and I sent it and then I was like, why did I. And it was after the time limit where you can't unsend something. And it was no joke. It was, there was no other way to describe it. I was just giving her my thoughts of the morning after something she said in the car. And it was so like, let me impart my wisdom. As if she's gonna receive a text that's so long.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And capture what I even wanted to say. Needless to say, I'm working on this and I think this is a particular, this is a human issue, but it's also particularly important for parents. And so I'm psyched about it. But let's go through some of your.

[Unknown]

Aphorisms and how you got there.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, one of the aphorisms that took me the longest to understand, just to understand the meaning of it and then I had to like really work on the language of it to get it really short and tight is accept yourself and also expect more from yourself. Because this was something that took me a long time to understand in my study of happiness. Because on the one hand, we want to have self compassion, we want to cut ourselves slack, we want to accept the kind of natural limitations of our character. Because the fact is all of us have some things that we are and some things that we are not. And I don't think that we serve ourselves well by pretending that we, if we chose to, we could just like be anything and do anything. It's like, you know, you know, we're just different. We have, we're sort of certain things are baked in. But we also want to expect more from ourselves. We want to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. We want to grow, we want to do things that are hard. We don't want to be complacent. And for a long time I would sort of be like, well, do you, which way do you do it and what's the right way to frame it and how do you think about yourself and what about this and what about that? And then I realized you can accept yourself and expect more from yourself. Both are true.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

This is so exactly like the much better sentence of how that really is authoritative parenting, like research on parenting is that sensitive caregiving, which means accept yourself, accept your child right and high expectations.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Is sort of the magic. If there is a magic bullet, that's it. And everything else is kind of comes back to it. So I love that because ultimately we want that for our kids so that they can have that for themselves. And now a quick break so I can tell you about my sponsors.

[Unknown]

Sakara is a whole body wellness company that makes nutrition programs and supplements that nourish and activate your whole body's system to help you function at your most powerful. What is very cool about their new vitamin programs? First of all, they're just packaged beautifully and they have a daily elixir. It's an all in one vitamin boost in a bright citrusy sip packed with bioavailable nutrients to fuel your energy, support digestion and nourish your skin. One sip once a day covers your key nutritional bases and it's developed with the highest quality intentionally dosed bioavailable ingredients to deliver real targeted results that you can see and feel. It's free from GMOs, dairy, gluten, added sugars and artificial sweeteners. It's third party tested, it's made in GMP certified facilities for purity and safety and it's designed to feel like a sensory self care ritual versus a chore. What I love most about Sakara is the quality nutrient dense whole food derived ingredients in the most bioavailable formats so you can really feel the results. Head to sakara.com and check out the Essentials bundle and don't forget to tell them how you heard about them at checkout.

Podcast Raising good humans.

That's sakara.coms a k a r a.

Dot com a little break to tell you about Great Wolf Lodge because taking your whole Family on an unforgettable adventure is something that is worth thinking about. So there are Great Wolf Lodges across all of North America. And so pretty much most families are only going to be within a few hours drive to the lodge. And it's just like one giant water slide party. So you can pack and splash away in an indoor water park. No two lodges are the same and depending on which one you visit, you'll get wave pools, lazy rivers, water basketball, and tons of all ages fun that your family can enjoy together. And every single one has crazy water slides. Like I didn't even know this kind of stuff existed. High speed thrill rides and small toddler friendly slopes. Every water park is always warm to 84 degrees. This is a world I did not even know existed. So the lodge has incredible attractions. In addition to the water park, they have high flying ropes courses, mini golf, climbing walls, mini bowling, virtual reality rooms and a massive arcade.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I mean it really is for every.

[Unknown]

Little person you could possibly imagine. Not only that, but they've got free daily events and activities from family friendly yoga in the morning, which I'm sure you're all going to be excited to do, to nightly dance parties. Learn [e-mail] greatwolf.com book now and strengthen your pack at Great Wolf Lodge.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Another one that took me a while to understand. A lot of these sort of have paradoxes. A lot of the best secrets of adulthood are kind of paradoxical because that allows you to capture the complexity of life. And it's also kind of more interesting to think about. One of the points of seekers of adulthood try to be thought provoking. But one, one of them is that love is unconditional and love is demanding. Love accepts you just as you are and love expects the best from you. It's like both are true.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Yeah. And one without the other, one without.

[Gretchen Rubin]

The other, it's not. Yeah, yeah. But both are true. And I think that's hard. And another one of my aphorisms is the opposite of a profound truth is also true. And so sometimes like absence makes the heart grow fonder and also out of sight, out of mind. Both are true. Both are true. And so sometimes I think that's hard for us to kind of. We always want it to be clear and easy and kind of like a one size fits all. And so a lot of times I found that I'm trying to understand how two things can be true simultaneously.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

That's sort of the great gift to, to get to the place where we understand two things can be true.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right well, like, you're unique just like everybody else. You know, it's like both are true. Well, one. One thing that's interesting about the book is I love all of the secrets of adulthood equally. Right. As the author, but. But it's interesting to me to see now that the book is going out into the world, which ones people will bring up to me, like, what's really resonating the most, and one that a lot of people have been quoting back to me is we care for many people we don't particularly care for. You know, I think that's just. That's the truth of it. And that can be confusing too, because you're like, I care for them, but I don't particularly care for them.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I love that. Because we also need to. It's a quick way of saying, I want my kids. I want also for myself, but I want my kids to be out in the world knowing that we care for people that we don't really care for because we are in an era where that feels like we're. We're sort of struggling with that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Another one that I think is a. Is maybe a little bit puzzling to people is don't expect to be motivated by motivation. I am not a fan of the term motivation. I try never to use the word motivation because I think it's super confusing because people confuse the desire to achieve an outcome with like the willingness to do the actions that will take you toward that outcome. And so sometimes I think, well, if I just want something badly enough, then my actions will follow. But I'm like, that doesn't happen. You know, I wrote my book better than before, which was all about habit formation. It's like that alone doesn't do it. You don't expect to be motivated by motivation. So that was one that it took me a really long time to understand, like why motivation is such a confusing idea.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And we have a lot of expectations around motivation that I think so cruel to young people especially, who don't have the confidence to not question their entire purpose because they keep hearing about intrinsic motivation. And extrinsic motivation is bad and intrinsic is good. And you're supposed when you find the something, you're going to do it. And all these messages that are so they can really mess with you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, that led me not to even get into a whole other subject, but in my four tendencies framework where that divides people into upholders, questioners, obligers, and rebels, one of the things that. That is a surprise to people or like one of the things that I argue is that if you're an obliger, which is one of the groups and it's the biggest group, it's the group that the biggest number of people, both men and women belong to, they, they respond to outer expectations like a work deadline, but they don't meet inner expectations. And just like their own desire to keep a New Year's resolution or get back into meditation or whatever, unless they have a form of outer accountability. And so to them I'm like, don't even think about intrinsic motivation. Don't even worry about it. That's just going to confine you. Yeah, just think about outer accountability. Anything that you want to achieve just gave yourself outer accountability. And people feel like that's kind of lesser or that's kind of cheating or training wheels or that you should use it, but then you should kind of like graduate out of it. And I'm like, I don't think so. In my observation, obligers always need utter accountability. And who cares? You're the biggest group. A lot ton of people need outer accountability. Just get it and then you can do anything you want. So anyway, that's all. I don't even really talk about that. It's Secret to Adulthood, that's a whole other book. But if people want to find out.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

We can put the link to that book and to our conversation about that book.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, this is super fun. And if people want to take the quiz, it'[e-mail] Quiz I found out I.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Was not who I thought I was because I was a rebel.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You're a very. Yes, but. And a great example of like, rebels don't always look the way people think a rebel is going to look.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Not that I was like, what?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yep, yep, yep. Well, you know another one that people often repeat back to me, which is what we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while. And this is very helpful both in the positive and the negative to remember. So if you, if you, if like basically most days you're getting some exercise and then every once in a while you don't, that's great. On the other hand, if like most days you don't exercise and then every once in a while you go for a 10 mile run, that's probably not going to matter as much as the days you don't do it. And so it's just a good thing to keep in mind in terms of like, as you're considering your life, what we do most days matters more than what we do most once in a.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

While I want to frame each one of these.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's good. Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I think that would be a great inspiration wall. Or just like, one. Because, of course, that could be overwhelming.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right?

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

You know, just. I want to have sort of a rotating version of them. I'm going to figure that out.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Another one that I really wanted my daughters to understand because this is something that I felt like I was really wrong about when I was a child and a. Like a young adult myself. And I only learned it from time and experience, and I really wish I had known it earlier, which is that you can be good at something without being good at something. And, like, Dolly Parton and Paul McCartney can't read music, you know, And I used to think as a child that if I was going to, like, excel at something, I had to be really good at all the constituent part, sort of. But there are people who succeed in finance who are not good at math. There are people who are really, are renowned artists who cannot draw, you know, and there are amazing musicians who can't read music. And so I think sometimes you think like, well, I have to be good at everything to be good at something. But you don't. Like, just find your own way to do it. Like, work around it. Leave it out. One of the things as a writer that I tell myself is skip the boring parts. If I find something boring, just find a way to leave it out. Nobody ever writes to me and is like, hey, Gretchen, why didn't you talk about that boring aspect of your subject? I just write around it. But I. But as a kid, I really thought, well, you know, if I'm going to pursue this, I really have to be a master of all the things that I think go into it. I want to. No, you don't.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. Because I think that's another burden, especially today. Just like, we've got this just really wrong sense that we can't do these all these things in different ways. So can you just, like, dig into this a little bit more? Because I hear. I hear that coming out of young people so much. And I think there is a point. I think we all have that voice in our head, or some of us do that. Questions like, I can't believe I don't know how to do this, and I'm, you know, X. But you get to a place where you have the confidence of knowing. I. I am like, I'm a developmental psychologist and I failed Psych 1.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There you go. I mean. Right, exactly.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

So if you had Told me when I was 20 in Hanover, New Hampshire, that I was ever going to think about psychology again, let alone become a psychologist, because I would have just been like, I guess this is not my jam. But what wasn't my jam was a giant survey class. Also other organizational skills to drop a class. But I think that's really important because I just hear so much talk about expertise in young people and mastering things, and it's an unrealistic. You know what? Actually, it's arrogant. Like the idea that we become a writer or a developmental psychologist or in anything, and that means we automatically cover all areas of that as an expert. If you really could, first of all, if you could really do that, that would be ridiculous. But also, it's too much. It's too much to even consider. And. And I don't think young people have permission to know, like, oh, by the way, we. We all do this in a different way. It means a different thing to us.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, no, and I think if you start looking for examples, you see them, like, for instance, you know, I. I went to law school and worked briefly as a lawyer. And there's a very famous lawyer, David Boies, who was this. Considered this, like, outstanding lawyer. And he was severely dyslexic and, like, really had trouble reading. So he was briefed orally. But he was just brilliant at kind of like, making an argument. He could take an information incredibly quickly, synthesize it and. And make an argument back. But again, like Sony said, if you're not good at reading and writing, how can you possibly be a good lawyer? But he found a way to do it. And so I think a lot of times it's like, okay, you fail. You failed the one on one course. Okay, can you find your way without that? Probably you can. There are people. I don't want to. I don't want to, you know, say mean things about my fellow writers. But there are some writers out there. I can think of a couple novelists who have sold millions of copies of novels, and they're not good writers. They're amazing storytellers. But if you're just saying, like, technically, as writers, are they good? You would be like, no, they are not. They are not good writers. But it doesn't matter because they're such good storytellers that people don't care. And so. Or like, and now, because there's all these different kinds of tools coming on, like, maybe you can be a filmmaker and you don't know anything about film or whatever. And I do think that for young people, Sometimes it's, it's. And for grownups as well that we can get hung up thinking like, well, if I, if I don't have this piece and I don't have that piece, it's kind of a fatal flaw and I'll never be able to move forward. But I think with time and experience, we all have these examples of like, well, no people people find workarounds or people delegate or people, people find a way if they persist. And so you don't want to let yourself give up on something that you. That really appeals to you and attracts you just because there's some aspect of it that is, is sort of not working for you.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And you're not. And you're not lesser of that because.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No, it might make you better, it might make you simpler. Like shape it in a different way. Yeah. So you don't have to be good at something to be good at something.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And now a quick break so I can tell you about my sponsors. Okay.

[Unknown]

Vionic has really cool essential styles for everyday wear. It's shoes that can help you be walking happily all spring and summer. I have the Uptown Willa. It's an everyday essential because it's part loafer, part sneaker. So you can look professional and put together, but feel like you're walking in sneakers. So it's awesome. And you can get them in many colors, many styles and save your feet. Vionic has an exclusive viomotion technology that revolutionizes medical orthotics and they are committed to harnessing the medical foundation in the advancement of biomechanics to engineer significantly better performing shoes that strengthen your natural movement while aligning and balancing you feet first. So if you are moving around and you need to move around because presumably you're chasing small people or rushing to the office or a little bit of both, wouldn't it be great if you could feel super comfortable but look good also? They even offer a 30 day guarantee. So wear them, love them or return them for a full refund within 30 days. Use the code HUMANS at checkout for 15% off your entire order at www.bionicshoes.com when you log into your account one time use only. So get all the ones you want. Bionic shoes wearable well being for your feet. I want to tell you about how important plants are and then a solution for having them and having them live a long happy life. Did you know that Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have every plant your yard needs. They have fruit trees, they have privacy trees, they have flowering trees, shrubs. So much more. Whatever plants you're interested in, fast growing trees has you covered and you find the best fit for your climate and space. Fast growing trees make it easy to get your dream yard order online and get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days without ever leaving home. Their alive and thrive guarantee ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus, you get support from trained plant experts on call to help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them. I love having indoor plants, so I got a fiddle leaf fig, and it really changes the whole feeling of my room. And I love this plant and it's healthy and gorgeous. This spring, they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals. And listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code Humans at checkout. That's an additional 15% off at fast growingtrees.com using the code humans at checkout fast growingtrees.com code humans. Now's the perfect time to plant. Use humans to save today. The offer is valid for limited times and terms and conditions may apply.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, I said that I say this to myself, but I remind my daughters of this all the time. And everybody around me that is working is one of the most dangerous forms of procrastination. Because I do think that even if you're a person where you're like, well, I wouldn't, like, sneak away from my work day and watch reruns of the Office on TV while lying on the sofa. Okay, but would I do a lot of research that I don't really need to be doing during my workday? I have a friend who said, oh, I just spent 45 minutes experimenting with different fonts. And I'm like, my friend, that is not a billable hour. Play with the fonts in your free time. That is not part of a work day because, you know, but it looks like work. It looks like work. And so it can be more alluring sometimes than the, like, actual goofing off. Because when you're actually goofing off too, you have the fun of goofing off. But sometimes when, when you're procrastinating through work, you're neither relaxing and having the pleasure of, like, doing whatever you want and you're not working towards whatever your actual priority is. So you're kind of in the worst of both worlds.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Yeah, I am. I'm guilty of that. I never really thought about it, but I. I love procrastinating by working.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, right. It just feels good. Well, and if you love to research, research is inexhaustible. And it feels so productive. And it can be productive, but. But there is a point where you're like, okay, this is. Now, just because I am personally interested in this, it's not really t related to my task. Well, this is one. A lot of my favorite secrets of adulthood are kind of literally true and also figuratively true. So one of the ones. This. This I hurt my back, and a physical therapist told me this, and I realized, wow, this is true on 70 levels. She said, well, the place that hurts isn't always the place that's injured.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Ooh.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And, you know, because if you. If you. If you have trouble with your back, you know, a lot of times it's like, no, that's your hip flexor. It's in a completely different part of your body than where the pain is showing up. But I think that's true in everyday life as soon as you're like, oh, I having all this conflict with my roommate. But no, maybe it's because you're having a lot of trouble with a class or, you know, maybe I feel like I don't like my career, but in fact, it's because I feel like I don't have a friend at work and nobody. I don't really trust anybody around me. Nobody's got my back. And so the place that. Or like, a friend of mine said she was thinking about moving, and she was talking to her real estate broker, and then she said, well, you know, I thought I wanted outdoor space. And then I realized I actually want a husband. You know, I think we've all done that. So the place that hurts isn't always the place that's injured. And another one that I like that is both literally true and figure figuratively true is that if you don't like a pair of pants, don't pay to get them hemmed.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Oh, by the way, that is both. Yes. Practical and wise.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. Because we've all done it where you're like, well, maybe. Maybe the reason. And then I, like, spent more money than I should on this pair of pants that I haven't worn since I bought them is because the hem is wrong. And he's like, no, I just don't like them. Like, admit it, it's like, you don't like this pair of pants.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Yep.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You know, maybe. Maybe this is my version of don't put lipstick on a pig. I'm not sure. But. Well, one that I. That I wrote with my sister in mind. But I think it's very helpful. But again, for both children and adults, is repeatedly rehearsing disaster doesn't protect us from it. Because I do think that there's a feeling and almost a superstitious belief that we will ward off dangers by o. By just continuously worrying about them. Or that if we worry about something enough, that will kind of get us closer towards our aim. Like, if I'm really worried about writing my big 8th grade history report, then that means that somehow I'll do a better job. Or if I am, like, constantly worrying about my health, somehow that's going to mean that, like, bad things aren't going to happen to me. Now, a little bit of worry is good because it will make you, like, floss and, you know, watch your blood sugar or, you know, make sure that you check your sources for your eighth grade history paper. A little bit of worry. But when you're just worrying and worrying and worrying as if it's got some kind of magical power to protect. Protect you, it can actually be very draining and distracting.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

It's a real skill of a person who feels anxious a lot is to. Is to take that worry. Like, I. People who listen to this podcast a lot, I mentioned this, but I do not like flying. And I fly constantly. I am back and forth a lot.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And I hate flying. Have for decades. I can't remember when I didn't hate flying and wasn't afraid of it. And every time I go through the same superstitious anxiety. And so many people have given me wonderful solutions for this. And I'm like, you don't get it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I, I need to cling to this anxiety about. I, like, don't. I'm. I, I wouldn't even know what to do with myself if I didn't feel that. And it is absolutely irrational and ridiculous. But it's one of the ways that I empathize a lot with people who experience general anxiety is that never try to convince people out of it because I know how good I am at arguing with that particular conversation. Because it's like you get better when you practice over and over catastrophizing things about all the different ways. So it, it kind of stops you from thinking that you can intellectualize your way out of something with a friend who's going through something with your child. But the way I really understand it is for this bizarre, catastrophic thing that I do, and I don't want to stop doing it. It's so ridiculous.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, I'm the same way about driving. I'm kind of an irrationally nervous driver. I do drive, but I'm. I'm like, I'm a fearful driver. And it is. It's very hard to kind of explain to somebody how you feel. But here's a funny story about being afraid of flying. A friend of mine was super afraid of flying, but just like, you needed to do it, so she forced herself to do it. Whatever. Yeah, but really scared of lying. And one. And she was. She went to a friend's wedding in Chicago from Toronto. And they drank and they drank and they drank. And she was so hungover the morning she had to leave. And she threw up in the hotel room that morning and she threw up in the airport and she got on the plane and she said she was so exhausted and so, like, overwhelmed that her body could not mount an anxiety response. And she was completely calm. And she said it broke the fear. And then after that, she was never afraid of flying again. And I just thought that was the most comical solution that I ever heard.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

That she was just like, I love that. She basically broke the superstition was helpful.

[Gretchen Rubin]

By just being so, so incredibly hungover. Probably terrified she'd have to, like, you know, throw up in the bathroom on the plate.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

You know what I mean?

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's just like, oh, my gosh, I've got so much on my mind and so much going on in my. I, like, I just can't even bother.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

There's no room for another story.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's no room. There's no room for anything else to bother me. No, exactly.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

And now a quick break so I can tell you about my sponsors.

[Unknown]

Well, of course, we all know that learning through play is such an important part of childhood. And also we know that sometimes we feel like, yes, we want our kids to play, but they would rather be on screens and we don't have the bandwidth to come up with all the materials and all the things. And they've done as much free and open play as they can possibly do before it's time to feel challenged again. So Kiwico solves all of that because they create these learning opportunities almost like little mini labs, but through all the cool ways that it's important for kids to learn. Exploring with natural materials and building and learning new skills and new projects.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

It's cool.

[Unknown]

I just got one of the sand and water play tables for a little young person that I'm friends with. Okay, fine, I'm friends with her mom. But it was so incredible. To watch because water and sand play is so important for kids to explore and the sensory experience of it all and you get to build it too. These are also fantastic gifts that keep kids totally engaged and off screens. And you don't have to do any of the work because everything down to the scissors comes in the package. So Tinker, create and innovate with Kiwico. Get up to 50% off your first crate at kiwico.com promo code RGH that's up to 50% off your first Crate at K I W I C promo.

Code RGH this episode is brought to you in part by Citter City, which is so fun because I've been using Citter City. Not recently because I have much older teenagers, but so long ago when I had little ones, I was using Sitter City because it was so reliable, because they had experience and training certifications for all of their sitters. There were real parent reviews, professional references.

And I just felt like I could.

Finally feel there was a place to go if I just wanted to have dinner or a couple of hours of support. Remember, when you have support, even if it's just for date night, just giving you like a little time of grown up fun can make you such a better parent because you're going to come home and be filled with renewed energy and feel like yourself again. So go to sittercity.com and take the guesswork out of finding care. Breathe easier knowing your kids are in good hands. Visit sittercity.com today to get the care you need. I just liked the peace of mind. All the caregivers undergo ID verification and background checks. It was just such a helpful resource for when I had young children. Check out sittercity.com one of the big.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Themes that I'm constantly reminding myself and other people of is that we're all different. Like there can't be one magic, one size fits all solution for how to be happier, healthier, more productive, more creative. Because people are very different. Like you're a rebel and I'm an upholder. That's very different. Some people are morning people, some people are night people. That's totally different. Some people, you know, you see this with your kids. Like, I need a desk. I have a desk everywhere. I would have a desk in the bathroom if I could. I love a desk. Neither of my kids use desks. I was always like, go sit at your desk. I was like, how can you do your work if you're not at your desk? And then I realized some people don't use desks but so I, I, I'm always coming back to this theme. And so I was trying to think of some kind of more original and fresh way of explaining it. And then I thought of the bird, the bee and the bat. All, all fly, but they use different kinds of wings.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I love that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And that is true. They have completely different kinds of wings, but they all fly. And so we can all accomplish our aim. But it may look very different along the way.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I also love that for us to remember about our kids and that parenting does not have any silver bullet. One size fits all. There was the silver bullet, but it was just like very broad.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Equivalent of flying.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Well, maybe. Well, tell me what you think of this one. Which is mine. Is one of mine. For parenting is easy children raise good parents. Because in my observation, people with easy children give themselves a lot. They congratulate themselves and pat themselves on the back a lot. And I'm like, that's because you've got an easy kid. Yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Dandelion kids. It's like, you don't need to do anything pretty, right. If you decide what cracks.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No. And some people are like, oh, we just always explain our rules. Or, you know, I'm like, no. Well, and then there's, so there are secrets of adulthood, which are the, you know, the aphorisms that I wrote in the book. They're all original. But then another thing that I love is part of my love of this form is I love proverbs. So proverbs are like, you know, folk wisdom, things that have been handed down for a hundred years. And one of those is a stumble may prevent a fall, which is, you know, a little screw up often will prevent a big screw up. And another one is you can't push a rope. And I think we've all experienced that frustration with a kid, which is a certain point. You just can't make somebody do something. You cannot push a rope. And another thing, and this is a proverb that I think you hear a lot with little kids because this seems to be something that like preschool and kindergarten teachers say a lot. And I, I think it's very good for parents, which is you get what you get and you don't get upset, which maybe you don't like it because you're allowed to be upset if you want to be upset. But the idea is like, you get what you get, you know, and like the same thing was true with parents. But I think of that as myself, as a parent. I'm like, this is the mom you got. You know, there's certain things I'm good at and others I'm not.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

There's a book, Pinkalicious, that has, you get what you get, you don't get upset. I used to change it to, you get what you get and you might get upset.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, that's good too. And you might get upset, but then it's kind of like, deal with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get a vanilla cupcake or you get a chocolate cupcake and like, we don't have time to like, yeah, and you might get upset, but I think I like yours better because it is. Because you might get obsessed. That's true. But see, this is what I like about the, the form of the aphorism because it allows us to kind of clarify our own thinking because maybe we disagree with it. And I say, like in my introduction, these are my secrets of adulthood. And you might disagree, but even in disagreeing, you will clarify your own thoughts because you might say, I don't agree with, you get what you get and you don't get upset. But even that. You're saying that now we've taken the conversation further because of their. But, but if you're just. If we were just having kind of an abstract conversation about, well, what do you do about things when you're a kid and it doesn't go your way and then you're trying to manage your emotion back to your thing about, like, let's have all these words flying around. It allows you to sort of decide, well, do I agree with that or not? Maybe I don't even agree with that. Maybe I don't agree that easy. Children raise good parents. But it's kind of easier to think about that when it's said succinctly.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I love it so much. I mean, we just spent a half an hour talking about these aphorisms and each one, like, brought up, we could have talked about each one for an hour.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

But then I love how they capture something so. So that feels so clear. And yes, you're absolutely right. I'm. I'm actually going to look at this with a new lens, which is the lens of. I want to read these. And also I want to think about, like, do I align with each one of these? And if I don't, which I do with every single one except for that little tweak, what is it? And how. I just think it's such a, it's such a relief when you really can capture something that you believe in this concise way. It just feels like, ah, yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, there's room. In the back of secrets of adulthood, there's room for people to write their own. Because I think there is this great satisfaction in articulating something. And if you do feel like you've learned or arrived at some kind of lesson, you really do want to remember it and you really do want to give it to other people. I mean, we loved. We love to teach and share, and we all want to, like, save other people from learning lessons the hard way, especially if we learned them the hard way. And so I'm like. I remember just realizing in college. Well, really in high school, never get an extension. An extension is a highway to hell. It's always going to be due. Don't get an extension. Like, unless you break your leg, don't get an extension. And this served me so well. But now whenever I see anybody in any kind of school setting, I'm like, whatever you do, don't get an extension.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Oh, my God. And I used to take extensions and then. So regret it, like, immediately. Oh, it's the worst.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Because it just cascades and then they run into each other and. Oh, my. The relief is so transient. Yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

But, like, all of these things are so much easier to. Like, I'm handing this to my daughter for graduation because these are so.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I don't know.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

There's just something so satisfying about having that memory. And now every time you go to get an extension, which, by the way, happens in adulthood all the time, I just.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I just had to postpone the date of a meeting, which as soon as I had to do it, I was, like, so bummed. Just because I know that there's going to be another thing at that place.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

You know, but I love just, like, being able to capture it and then having inspiration to capture your own. Because one of my hopes for when I use fewer words, someday be able to consolidate some of these thoughts.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

To these aphorisms. Like, it's so inspiring because it's so effective.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well. And it's very creatively satisfying to. Really. Well, it's like that famous line, and it's. I don't know, was it Julius Caesar or Mark Twain or somebody said like, sorry I wrote you such a long letter. I didn't have time to write a shorter one. Yeah. It does take a lot of. It does take that extra step to really get it to really distill down. But it is. It's very creatively satisfying.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

I'm so impressed. I'm so impressed. Like, I. I want. I want a retreat with you where we just pull aphorism.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Good.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Like lengthy. Just lengthy conversations. If we could just put that on our to do list for.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So fun.

[Dr. Aliza Pressman]

Thank you so much. I'm so excited for everybody to have this. And the link is in the show notes. And you are awesome. Oh, thank you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It was so much fun to talk to you. As always. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.