Former Pharma Rep Breaks Down How Your Insurance Is Overcharging You + Keeping You Sick | Brigham Buhler

Summary

Real Foodology Podcast Summary: "Former Pharma Rep Breaks Down How Your Insurance Is Overcharging You + Keeping You Sick | Brigham Buhler"

Release Date: October 29, 2024

In this enlightening episode of the Real Foodology podcast, host Courtney Swan engages in a profound conversation with Brigham Buhler, a former pharmaceutical representative turned healthcare advocate. This episode delves deep into the intricate and often obscured mechanisms by which insurance companies overcharge consumers, perpetuating a cycle of chronic illness and financial burden.

Introduction to Brigham Buhler

Courtney Swan introduces Brigham Buhler, highlighting his impactful appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast three years prior, where Brigham shed light on the corruptions within the insurance industry. Courtney expresses her enthusiasm for having Brigham on the show, recognizing the depth of knowledge he brings regarding the often invisible workings of big insurance.

The Insurance Overcharge Mechanism

Brigham elucidates how the American healthcare system is fundamentally rigged to prioritize profits over patient well-being. He explains that insurance companies, alongside pharmaceutical benefit managers (PBMs), manipulate reimbursement rates and deductibles to maximize their earnings. Brigham states:

“If you eat the average American diet and you go to the average American primary care, you can be prepared to die of the average American disease.”
[00:10]

He breaks down the complexity of deductibles, explaining how patients are often left paying exorbitant amounts out-of-pocket before insurance begins to reimburse, and even then, only partially. This system ensures that insurance companies benefit financially from ongoing chronic illnesses rather than investing in preventive care.

Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs) and Gag Clauses

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on PBMs and their role in inflating medication costs. Brigham highlights how PBMs negotiate rebates with pharmaceutical companies, leading to higher listed drug prices while pocketing substantial profits. He provides a stark example:

“They say we're paying $1,500 for a GLP1, but they're actually getting a $500 rebate.”
[14:07]

Brigham also exposes the existence of gag clauses that prevent pharmacies from informing patients about cheaper cash prices for medications. This practice forces patients to pay inflated prices without the option of knowing about more affordable alternatives.

Impact on Patients

The ramifications of these practices on patients are severe. Brigham shares poignant anecdotes of individuals receiving massive medical bills for minor procedures and the consequent anxiety and financial strain. He explains how insurance companies manipulate deductible structures to exhaust coverage rapidly, leaving patients financially vulnerable:

“Insurance wants you to meet your deductible quickly so they can pass the remaining costs back to you.”
[58:32]

This manipulation discourages individuals from seeking necessary medical care due to the fear of unaffordable bills, exacerbating public health issues.

Corporate Capture of Healthcare

Brigham discusses the broader issue of corporate capture within the healthcare system. He traces the evolution of major insurance companies acquiring PBMs, thereby consolidating control over medication pricing and distribution. This consolidation ensures that insurance companies maintain a stranglehold on healthcare costs, prioritizing shareholder profits over patient care.

Regulatory Failures and Medical Device Concerns

The episode also touches upon the failures of regulatory bodies like the FDA. Brigham criticizes the 510(k) approval process, which allows medical devices to enter the market without rigorous human safety studies. He recounts alarming instances of medical devices causing severe health issues, underscoring the lack of stringent oversight:

“Over 90% of medical devices in operating rooms haven’t been tested on humans.”
[38:43]

Solutions and Alternatives: Wastwell’s Preventive Approach

Transitioning from critique to solutions, Brigham introduces his company, Wastwell, which focuses on preventive and predictive healthcare. By leveraging telemedicine and AI-driven tools, Wastwell aims to provide comprehensive blood work and personalized health plans outside the traditional insurance framework. This approach empowers individuals to take control of their health without the financial and bureaucratic constraints imposed by insurance companies.

Brigham emphasizes the importance of proactive health management:

“We focus on longevity and preventative care because that’s what insurance companies refuse to cover.”
[65:06]

Optimism and the Path Forward

Despite the daunting challenges, both Courtney and Brigham express optimism about the future of healthcare. They discuss emerging technologies, such as AI and advanced screening tools, that hold promise in making preventive care more accessible and affordable. Brigham highlights the potential of AI to reduce costs and improve personalized care, envisioning a future where individuals have greater autonomy over their health decisions.

Brigham concludes with an inspiring message:

“We’re going to drive down the cost of healthcare and make this affordable for everybody.”
[89:50]

Closing Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a call to action for listeners to take ownership of their health and seek out preventive care options outside the traditional insurance system. Courtney and Brigham stress the importance of informed decision-making and the adoption of healthier lifestyles to combat the systemic issues perpetuating chronic diseases.

Key Takeaways:

• Insurance System Flaws: Insurance companies and PBMs collaborate to inflate drug prices and prioritize profits over patient health, creating significant financial and health burdens for individuals.

• Gag Clauses: Pharmacies are legally restricted from informing patients about cheaper cash alternatives for medications, further entrenching high costs.

• Corporate Control: Major insurance companies' acquisition of PBMs centralizes control over healthcare pricing and access, limiting patient choices and increasing costs.

• Regulatory Shortcomings: The FDA’s lax approval processes for medical devices contribute to widespread health risks and insufficient patient protection.

• Preventive Solutions: Companies like Wastwell offer alternative healthcare models focused on preventive medicine, utilizing telemedicine and AI to provide affordable, personalized care.

• Future Optimism: Technological advancements and proactive health management hold promise for transforming the healthcare landscape, making preventive care more accessible and reducing overall healthcare costs.

This episode serves as a critical exposé on the hidden mechanisms that keep Americans overcharged and underinsured, while also providing hope through innovative solutions aimed at reclaiming individual health sovereignty.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you eat the average American diet and you go to the average American primary care, you can be prepared to die of the average American disease.”
  – Brigham Buhler, [00:10]

• “They say we're paying $1,500 for a GLP1, but they're actually getting a $500 rebate.”
  – Brigham Buhler, [14:07]

• “Insurance wants you to meet your deductible quickly so they can pass the remaining costs back to you.”
  – Brigham Buhler, [58:32]

• “We focus on longevity and preventative care because that’s what insurance companies refuse to cover.”
  – Brigham Buhler, [65:06]

• “We’re going to drive down the cost of healthcare and make this affordable for everybody.”
  – Brigham Buhler, [89:50]

Where to Find More Information

For more insights and actionable strategies to take control of your health, visit Wastwell at wastwell.com and follow Brigham Buhler on Instagram @realfoodology.

Transcript

[A]

On today's episode of the Real Foodology.

[B]

Podcast, if you eat the average American diet and you go to the average American primary care, you can be prepared to die of the average American disease.

[A]

Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology Podcast. Today I'm in Austin, and you can actually watch this video. If you're listening on Spotify, you can watch the full video. I'm in a studio in Austin. I came out here for a trip and decided to bring a couple guests on that I have been wanting to get on the podcast. Today's episode is probably hands down in the top five of my favorite episodes that I've ever recorded. Brigham Bueller, I heard him on Joe Rogan's podcast. I believe it was about three years ago now. And immediately when I listened to that episode, I texted my team. I tried DMing him on Instagram. I was like, I have to get this guy on. I talk so much about big Pharma and big Food and all the corruptions going on. I never knew the insidious world of the corruption of big Insurance. And I just felt like Brigham was dropping all these bombs left and right of things that I had never heard before and answering all these questions that I feel like all of us are in the dark about. Like with our deductibles. Insurance makes it so confusing, right? Like when you try to meet a deductible and you feel like you're spending all this money and they're not reimbursing you for everything, but they're not going to reimburse you until you meet this deductible. Deductible. And then even when they. When you meet the deductible, they only give you a certain percentage. And what about CO pays with prescriptions? Like, there's just. There's so much colluding going on in the background where the American people are getting just totally, for lack of a better word, and he breaks it down in such a. A perfect way. I will tell you that a lot of this is really dark and it's really crazy, and I'm sure a lot of it you've never heard before. But I choose to allow this information to empower me. Now that I know, now I know to avoid this, and now I know how to not get into this sick system. Brigham actually said this to me after the podcast. He said, I see it like a magic trick where now I know. I know all the ins and outs. I know the tricks that they're trying to. They're. That they're trying to pull the wool over our our faces and he's like, now that I see the magic trick, I know exactly what's going on and I know how to avoid their tricks and the manipulation. So this was an incredible episode. Like I said, one of my favorite ones that I've ever recorded. I'm so excited for y'all to hear this and I hope that you love it. If you could take a moment to rate and review the podcast. It not only means so much to me, but it really, really helps this show. We're gonna have some amazing videos that are gonna be cut from this episode. If you could share those on your Instagram tag me eelfoodology Ealfoodology Podcast or just share a screenshot of the show. Any sharing really helps get this, get the word out and get this epis and people need to know this information. This is truly what I consider to be life saving information. So I hope you guys love the episode. Thank you so much for listening. I love you so much. As the holiday season approaches, it's time to focus on more than just gift giving and festive cheer. Let's talk about a gift that you can give yourself Healthier teeth and a brighter smile. If you're looking for a natural and effective way to upgrade your dental care routine, I've got the perfect holiday treat for you. Introducing Wellness Toothpaste, A stocking stuffer that your teeth will love. This isn't your average toothpaste. It's infused used with hydroxyapatite, which is a mineral that works wonders for your enamel and it's a great replacement for fluoride. 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From oral probiotic mints and natural floss to eco friendly toothbrushes and concentrated mouthwash, all made with essential oils and clean ingredients. Head over to Wellness.com Real Foodology and discover the power of hydroxyapatite for yourself. That is W E L-L-N-E-S-S S E.com RealFoodology if you're like me, you're always looking for healthy, delicious snacks that are easy to fit into your day. Well, I have found something incredible. Maui Nui venison is hands down the most delicious and nutrient dense meat I've ever had and I can't wait to share it with you. Maui Nui venison is not your average venison. This is 100% wild harvested, stress free meat straight from the lush lands of Maui. It's packed with nutrients and Utah state researchers have shown that it's the most nutrient dense red meat available with up to 10 grams of protein and just 55 calories per jerky stick. That's 53% more than grass fed beef. And the best part, it's incredibly clean and never gamey, making it perfect for everyday meals or a quick snack. These are my favorite meat sticks. Now they taste so good. Hector and I are obsessed with them and I have them everywhere. I have them in my hiking backpack, I take them in my purse, I leave them in my my car. They are just the best. Now here's the thing. Maui Nui is all about balance. They're committed to preserving the delicate ecology of Maui by managing these populations responsibly, which is really cool too. So that means that there is only a limited number of memberships available and when they're gone, they're gone. By becoming a member, you get early access to fresh venison and new products before anyone else. If you're ready to try it for yourself today, Maui Nui is offering my listeners 20% off your first purchase of jerky sticks, fresh venison, bone broth and more. Just visit Maui nuivenison.com and use code Real Foodology at checkout. That's M A U I n u ivenison.com and use code real foodology for 20 off. Trust me, you don't want to miss this. Brigham, thank you so much for coming on today.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Yeah, I was so stoked when I saw you on that Senate hearing and I think I told you this the night that we met at that dinner. I heard you on Joe Rogan and it was the first episode you did with him. So I want to say that was, like, two years ago, maybe.

[B]

Yeah. May have been three years ago, by the way.

[A]

It was a long time ago. I listened to that episode. I immediately. I DMed you. I DMed your company, and I know you were getting blown up, so I think it just got, like, lost.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I literally texted my team, and I was like, I have to get this guy on. You were talking about things that I have never heard before. I'm super invested in all the corruption that's happening with Big food and Big Pharma and all the colluding and everything that's going on. But you dropped knowledge that I've never heard before before about the insurance companies. So that's what I really want to dive into today, because I want my audience to hear just how deep that corruption goes, because it is insane. Some of the stuff that you talk about, I've never heard before.

[B]

Yeah, no, thank you. And what's crazy is. So that first podcast, we were not prepared because I had. I had only done a podcast with a friend before that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Joe, I would just tell him when we were talking, and he came in as a patient to ways to, well, about, like, what's going on with Big Pharma and some stories about my experiences. And one day he's just like, come on the podcast.

[A]

You're like.

[B]

And I'm like, joe, I've never done a podcast. He's like, shut the up. It's just two guys talking. I'm like, two guys talking with 12 million people listening, like, casual. So I was not. I went in just so nervous and stressed, and. And our team was not ready because it. It really. That podcast really landed with people back then. Like, it really did. It's. It stayed in the top, like, five for weeks, which was crazy. But Joe gave me that opportunity, and I was just there to try and tell the truth and tell people what I saw. So I'm glad that it resonated with you too.

[A]

I mean, it's incredible. Well, I mean, you just look around and, you know, everybody is so sick right now, and it's coming from so many different angles. Right. It's our food, but it's also. People are being over medicated, and then people can't. I mean, just something as simple as I was, I was thinking about this when I was preparing for the episode, and I was thinking about how. How many messages I get from people, because I talk often about getting blood work done, and I'll tell people, like, you want to know where your horm are at. You want to know specific things. And people write me DMS all the time and they're like, courtney, I went to my doctor and I asked for a hormone panel. My doctor literally refused to pull it for me. And you were talking about this and I was like, wait, I don't understand. Because I'm also someone where I, I got, I'm very blessed that I learned early on that I needed to start going to functional doctors, integrative doctors.

[B]

You're an anomaly, I tell you. Most people don't know.

[A]

Yeah, like, I needed to get out of the system. So I was not well versed with this because I'm used to going to doctors and then being like, oh, we're run a full panel, we're going to do all this blood work. So I'm telling, you know, my audience, go ask for this blood work. And their doctors are telling them, no. What, what's going on with that?

[B]

So I tell people all the time, if you eat the, if you eat the average American diet and you go to the average American primary care, you can be prepared to die of the average American disease. I hate to say that, but that's the world we live in. And so to take a step back to explain what happened, by the time I was a drug rep, which was the early 2000s, the corporate capture of our healthcare system had already happened. And so the days of a doctor traveling to a family with their little leather bag and knowing the mom and the dad and the whole family and the family history is dead and buried. It's over. A clinician in America is at the will of the insurance carriers. And the insurance companies dictate to the clinician what test they're allowed to pull, how much time they can spend with a patient. And unfortunately, today in our healthcare system, a primary care has on average six minutes with a patient in America to get them in and out of that clinic to troubleshoot all of their chronic diseases and ailments, not to mention how many medications most patients are on in America, because that's the only tool in their tool belt. And it's not the primary care's fault. They're put in a system that has set them up for failure. And so for a primary care to stay in business in this country, in the insurance model, they have to see 40 plus patients a day.

[A]

A day.

[B]

It's crazy. And so how are you possibly going to provide a high level of care? You're not. What you're trying to do is plug holes in the dam. But you're running out of, like, ways to plug these holes. And it's put a pill here, put a pill there, put a pill here, and then be, I'll see you again next year. You know, and then to try to do a deep dive, like, that's one of the things that I talked about in front of the Senate. We cannot fix what we refuse to see. And much like our healthcare system is rigged and the food system is rigged because so many people say it's broken, but the truth is, when you peel back the layers to the onion, it's rigged. And we're the ones fitting the bill for what's happening out there. And so what do I mean by rigged? It's captured and it's monetized. And chronic disease has become a revenue stream for not just the pharmaceutical companies, but the insurance companies that were supposed to be there to be our allies. And so those insurance companies, companies don't have a vested interest in getting you cured of a disease. Their vested interest is minimizing cost, maximizing profits. And so it's an obstruction mindset. If I can put a hurdle between a patient getting comprehensive blood work that doesn't pay me anything, right. I lose money by doing blood work because the insurance company doesn't own the blood lab, but the insurance company does own the pharmacy benefit managers. And the pharmacy benefit managers make profit off of chronic disease. Every pill you take that is covered by your insurance company runs through the pharmacy benefit manager, which was supposed to be an independent third party ally to the American people that was established in the 70s and they were going to go out and they were going to fight for us and they were going to drive down the cost of prescription care. And so a simple way to explain it is they were supposed to take a thousand dollar drug and negotiate it down to $500 so the average American could afford that medication. What they did instead is in the in. They say the highway to hell is paved with the best of intentions.

[A]

Yep, a lot lately too.

[B]

What ended up happening is within a decade, the big insurance companies, the big five is what they call them, United, Cigna, Aetna, CVS Health, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, went out and gobbled up the pharmacy benefit managers and corporately captured them, which allowed them to shift the game. Now the game becomes negotiating rebates. So instead of negotiating the price of the drug down from $1,000 to $500, they say, hey, go ahead and charge us $1,000, but give us a $500 rebate to our pharmacy benefit manager and so where people get confused by this, they go, well that makes no sense because then the Insurance is paying $1,000. No, the insurance is saying they're paying $1,000, but the $500 rebate gives them 50% off. Why is that piece puzzle piece important? Because 80 plus percent of Americans are insured by their employer. And so for me, I employ over 330 people. Now. Every one of those people have health insurance. Every one of those people take medications, get treatments. The insurance companies are monetizing those medications. And at the end of the year, let's say you're on a GLP1. That's a hot button right now. The weight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

$1500 average wholesale price in America for a GLP1 if you're using the insurance model.

[A]

And is that what the insurance is paying?

[B]

That's what they say they're paying. They're getting a huge rebate north of $500 a month per patient. Kickback, you'd call it a kickback if it was any other industry. Held at the pharmacy benefit manager company. Then at the end of the year, they come to me, the employer, and they say, Brigham, Joe Bob's been on a GLP1 for a year. Susan had a baby this year. You cost us this much across your organization. Sorry, Brigham, we're going to have to raise your co. Pay your deductibles and your premiums and you and your employees are going to have to pay us more. Right. An insurance company can't make profit without price gouging the American people. It's a for profit organization. So it's. They make money off of the chronic disease, not by curing the disease, not by preventing the disease. So there is no preventative care in most insurance plans. All the plan is designed to do is maintain and treat chronic disease. The system has been set up for failure.

[A]

Yeah. And what I want to understand, and you explain this on Joe Rogan, but I have to be honest, I still don't fully understand the concepts. So let's say I'm going to the pharmacy, I'm going to CVS and I'm getting my medication fulfilled. And it cost me like $10 copay. But then it actually only cost the insurance company. Like, like if I'd bought it without my insurance, it would have cost me like $5 or something.

[B]

Correct. So there's different drugs depending on the tier.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Brand new block, best blockbuster drug, like a GLP1 in the insurance model is fifteen hundred dollars.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I can provide that same medication cash mailed to your doorstep for under 300 bucks.

[A]

O that's a huge difference.

[B]

But the, in the big pharmaceutical companies don't want to allow that. So they're suing, compounding pharmacies left and right. Even though there's a nationwide shortage on these GLP1s, even though the FDA has given guidance and guidelines requesting pharmacies to make these drugs. Because if you look at those drugs, they're not a weight loss drug, they're a diabetes drug. And what happened is now they're, they, they've been sold off as a weight loss drug and they're phenomenal for weight loss. But the problem is now it's hard for diabetics to get a hold of this crucial life saving medicine. They need it and the general public's taking it to lose £10 for spring break. And I'm not here to tell you that's good or bad. If you've got the budget and you've got, you know, you've done your research, go for it. But we still got to take care of the people that are in dire need of this medicine and we can't price gouge those people. And so if I go back to when I owned a pharmacy, so I, I owned a retail pharmacy, today I'm in compounding. Before that I owned a retail pharmacy that build insurance company.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is a dirty secret. A lot of people don't know. There is a gag clause in every insurance based pharmacy in the country. And for you to survive as a pharmacy in that model, you cannot piss off Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna, Aetna, the big five, because you're gone, you're done. If you can't accept Blue Cross blue shield, that's 30% of the patient population in the state of Texas, overnight you're shutting your doors. So in the contract Blue Cross Blue Shield puts, you cannot disclose to a patient who's a Blue Cross patient that it's cheaper to buy this product with cash. And if I do, I violate my gag clause, but also a law. And it, it, it's, it, it is, it goes so deep that there is a safe harbor for these companies that allow them to put this clause in. That was put forth by the government because of the lobbying of the big insurance companies. And so here's a real world example. True, honest to God, Metformin, an amazing diabetes drug, been on the market over 20 years. It's one of the leading compounds that Peter Attia and people talk about for longevity. A lot of upside, minimal downside, not some brand new expensive Drug, it's been out forever. It's literally like a $50 purchase price for me. I would sell it for $3. I would make a $50. I would double my money. But in the insurance model, you come in and you say, hey, Brigham, I've got Blue Cross Blue Shield. I have to shut up. Swipe your BCPS card and it tells me $10 copay. I then have to charge you $10 on a drug I could have sold you for a couple bucks, basically. And I don't get to keep that money. That money gets clawed back and goes to the pbm. So the pharmacy benefit manager is making roughly anywhere from five to seven dollars every time a patient in America fills a metformin prescription. Right? Now, multiply that times thousands of drugs. Now multiply that times a big drug like an IG, like a GLP one, that's $1,500 a month. And they're making $500 a month off your chronic disease. What incentive does the insurance company have to prevent chronic disease? And then people go, well, that makes no sense, because they're going to be stuck covering the surgeries and all the stuff that comes from these chronic illnesses. No, because most of those procedures happen after the age of 65. Most of our healthcare cost happens when you're a Medicaid patient and you are now the public's problem by the time cancer and all these. I said this on Aaron Alexander's podcast earlier today. The disease that manifests in your 40s started in your 30s. The disease that manifests in your 50s started in your 40s. It takes a decade or two decades sometimes of putting our bodies through these processes to build chronic diseases that truly manifest and really cost us money. And for an insurance company, if I'm an executive at, let's just say United to pick on somebody else, I look at it and go, brigham's pre diabetic. Like, in theory, like, let's say I'm pre diabetic. They would look at me and go, brigham's pre diabetic. It's going to cost us sevenfold for the rest of his life to keep him alive and cover his health plan if we let him progress to diabetes. But to start treating him today cost us money on drugs we're not getting reimbursed on, potentially. So do we get preventative and proactive? The answer is no. Why would an insurance company wait it out? Two reasons. One, they're monetizing a lot of the medications. But two, they know every two to three years, people switch employers so if you need a surgery or something big down the road, that sevenfold increase in the cost of care is punted off to one of the other insurance companies or the federal government. And so now it's not their problem. And so everything has become, you know, sometimes people in human nature is to be short sighted. It's even worse in business because from the hospital like the doctor is stressed that month about hitting their volumes. The hospital system is stressed that month about hitting its financial metrics. The insurance company is stressed that month about hitting its financial metrics so it can hit its quarterly earnings. All of this is in an effort to build, to continue to grow the machine, which is Wall street, and get paid and add value and you have to hit your quarterly earnings objectives. And so we have transitioned away from patient care to profitability per patient. And that's what the system's built to do. It's been captured that way.

[A]

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[B]

Like, I mean, that's a really tough question to unpack. So on from the insurance standpoint, the United Healthcare, I think had cleared $380 billion last year. $380 billion?

[A]

Yeah. That's insane.

[B]

They're doing fine and they're doing fine because the cost inevitably gets passed on to the employer and to the government and to the American citizen. Because the government has no money without the American citizens.

[A]

Yeah, I mean we're printing so our.

[B]

Tax dollars that are going to treat these chronic diseases and help these patients when they're elderly and in dire need of this career. But it's, it's a fact that our elderly population is more chronically ill than ever. We broke down all the chronic disease states and how they're at all time highs at the Senate hearing. But the average elderly person's on four or more prescription drugs. You know, it's. And even that's a whole nightmare because what people don't realize when we go back to the price point and the average wholesale price point, even that. So the federal government, the reason Medicare is going to eventually go bankruptcy is the government said the same thing they did with the PBMs. This is a lot to sort through, man. These, these private companies seem to be doing better. They're making a profit. Let's outsource Medicare to the big five insurance companies. So 80 something percent of Medicare is covered is essentially run by the pharmacy benefit managers and the big insurance companies. Okay, so here's where that plot thickens. The government's analysis tool is to say what is the average wholesale price of a GLP1? Oh, it's $1,500 in America. And then big pharma says we'll sell it to you for 1200 because you're the federal government. And the insurance companies go look at federal government. We help Medicare save $300 on this prescription drug alone in one month. Multiply that times all the drugs. And the way I can show you this is real and tangible is in the state of Ohio. It was Ohio or Idaho, I can't remember. They found like 200 something million dollars in what they called fraud by the PBM on their governmental payer program in one state in one year. Now multiply that times the country, times all the states. It's because they're playing this shell game where they're making so much money off these medicines that it's artificially inflating the cost of health care, not reducing the cost of health care care. And then those inflated costs are getting held by the insurance companies as profits. And then the following year, in order to keep that profit game alive for Wall street, they just pass the cost on to the employer the next year via co pays deductibles and premiums.

[A]

So. And maybe I, I don't understand this fully, but part of me feels like this is also just fake money kind of, because the fifteen hundred dollars, it's not actually costing them that much money to do the GLP1s right. So like how much is it actually costing? Like how actually having to put out for the GLP1.

[B]

So there was actually, crazy enough there was a Senate finance investigation on insulin and trying to uncover why the hell has insulin gone up every year to the point where we are paying almost five times the amount for an insulin vial. And what you'll find is Eli Lilly and a lot of these insulin manufacturers were making the insulin for a minimal, a nominal amount of money. And they were, they were literally making less now than they were a decade ago off the insulin. But the price had gone up. Why? Because the rebate of the PBM had gone up and the PBM had to make more profits. So it was raising the rebate. Raising the rebate. Lily, raise your price. Pfizer, all these in all these pharmaceutical companies. So the game becomes raise your price, don't lower your price, because we're going to get the kickback. And the kickback is a bigger dollar amount now. And then how the insurance avoids ever having to pay it is they show us the thousand. So it's almost like they double dip. Yeah, they didn't pay the thousand. They paid five hundred dollars. Let's say it's a thousand dollars. They get a five hundred.

[A]

Tell us.

[B]

They tell us they paid a thousand. They meet with your employer at the end of the year and they charge them for the following year the thousand dollars per month that they never paid because they only paid 500.

[A]

And then where does the deductibles come into this? Because I'm sure that's all that's built in.

[B]

And then they tier the drugs based off the reimbursement rate. And so sometimes people have a bigger co pay on a drug. Why? Because that drug doesn't have a rebate if that drug's been on the market for 30 years or is compounded places. And the insurance companies Hate compounding pharmacies, I'm sure. And the pharmaceutical companies hate compounding pharmacies. Why? Because you have no skin in the game. You don't make any money off of it. But for patients, they love compounding pharmacies because it's cheaper in a lot of ways. And it's being portrayed by companies like, I mean, you saw that. You saw the media, you know. Oh, yeah, capture that. We experienced post our. Our city.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's the same thing in Big Pharma. I had to explain this to Jillian on Jillian's podcast. She said, okay, so explain to me. Brigham Combative pharmacies are bad, right? Like, they're not safe. That's what I've been told.

[A]

Oh, see, I. I love them.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So a lot of Americans are being duped every month. Eli Lilly and all these big pharmaceutical companies. And I keep bringing up Lily because I know for a fact Eli Lilly has put out hatchet job articles on pharmacies because they did it on my pharmacy. And they're attempting to discredit pharmacies and point out any shortcoming or flaw. Meanwhile, the media outlets are not covering the fact that Eli Lilly and Big Pharma have over 2500 facilities in America that have not been inspected in five or more years.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Eli Lilly recently had a factory shut down that the FDA hadn't been in, but it was because a whistleblower who was an employee of the company complained and blew the whistle on them for all the shortcomings at their facility. And it was improper aseptic technique, improper dosing regimen, misrepresentation of the data sets, all sorts of crazy stuff. And there's a book called Bottle of Lies written by an investigative journalist that breaks down how a lot of big pharmaceutical conglomerates have outsourced their manufacturing overseas. So a big chunk is overseas. Why is that important? Because now an FDA investigator can go, do I drive down the street and look at Brigham's Pharmacy for the fifth time this week, or do I fly to India and stay in a hotel that has no air conditioning because they put them out in rural areas by design, and she breaks all this down. And then furthermore, you've got to give three months heads up. You've got to get visas. You've to have all this proof to come in, because this is not a U.S. facility.

[A]

Well, and these countries have other regulations so they can get away with probably.

[B]

Totally different rules and regs.

[A]

Like, imagine if your drugs are being made in China.

[B]

Yeah. And they. She gets into regulations they, when they came to investigate one of these pharmaceutical companies, they literally had barrels burning all of their records. The inspector from the FDA got there and the records were all getting torched in a barrel. They had forged the data, misrepresented data. All of this has happened, all of it. Like I, I broke this down on Joe too. Like another example of corporate capture. When we talk about Monsanto and how evil they are in the chemical world, a lot of people don't know this. Monsanto owns Bayer Pharmaceutical.

[A]

Bayer owns Monsanto now.

[B]

Yeah. Bayer owns Monsanto.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bayer is the one who pushed contaminated AIDS hemophilia drugs into third world countries and knowingly infected individuals with aids. This is when AIDS was a death sentence. Bayer also, during World War II, tested product on Jewish women who were part of Nazi concentration camps. And there's letters between Bayer and these Nazi camps requesting an additional train full of 150 women.

[A]

I saw this.

[B]

It's insane, it's sick and all. By the way, this is the history of the people we're talking about here.

[A]

Yes. And all 150 women, the Jewish women, they all died, right?

[B]

Yep. And then they kindly request another train full of women.

[A]

Like they're just like ordering something off Amazon.

[B]

It's insane. And it's not, It's. And I'll tell you, it's not better here. When I was a rep at Eli Lilly and I explained this to Aaron too, he's like, how do people do this? And how do they sleep at night? But it's. The truth is we're very tribal. And when you come right out of college and you're a drug rep, which I was a 21 year old kid right out of college, and they bring in professors from Steadman, Hawkins and you know, doctors from Harvard and legitimate teaching institutes that tell you how these products are going to save lives. And they're so much better. But when you're 20, you don't realize. And also it's a different time, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't realize that these people are being paid to tell you this. And there's. The studies are being funded to skew the data in that way. And so. So almost everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. Like Mark Twain said it, there's. What is it? There's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics. Like statistics can be very misleading. Who paid for those statistics? How did they skew those statistics? How deep was the study? The Women's Health Initiative is a prime example. Peter Attia talks about That a lot. I was part of that. I was a drug rep when they dropped the Women's Health Initiative in, I think, late 90s, early 2000. And I had just become a drug rep, I think, in 2003. And we would go around and meet with obs and show them the Women's Health Initiative and say, you're going to kill women by writing estrogens. But the problem with not writing an estrogen is now the woman's going to lose bone mineral density. Well, guess what? We sold bone mineral density drugs.

[A]

Of course you did.

[B]

You can buy this. And at the time, you thought you were doing a good thing. But the study was mainly funded by these pharmaceutical companies that wanted to sell other stuff.

[A]

You know what this reminds me of? If people listening have not watched this, you have to watch Dopesick, because that was. That really gave me an insider look into what it really is like to be one of these pharma reps. Yeah. Because they throw them these big parties, they take them out to dinner, they give them all these bribes. And from what I understand, these bribes are technically illegal now, but they have all these loopholes to get around it.

[B]

Anyways, so when I. When I was a drug rep up, I was in Waco, Texas, 21 years old. I had a $25,000 a month expense account in Waco, Texas, to, like, wine. And I didn't spend it. I would get in trouble.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

You're not doing enough dinners, you're not doing enough lunches. You got to get out there. And I was in it when we could give away pins and shirts and swag and, you know, Viagra had a pin that you hit a button and it was like an erection where it sprung up like it was a pin folded in half. And we hit a button, it went rigid. And you could write with it, like. And it was all funny, gimmicky stuff. Yeah. And. And again, like, you can't say that these things don't influence people and their habits and their behaviors. And it gets deeper than that. I was given a list of doctors and told, you need to befriend these 15 doctors. These are the biggest prescribers in your area. And every morning, I would get a report of everything that doctor prescribed the day before. And this was in 2000, so doctors probably didn't know, but I knew what they prescribed. And so I would tailor my day to who prescribed what. Who's writing the most of these meds? Like, Cialis was one of my drugs, the Viagra competitor. So I would Prioritize my day to go call on the biggest Viagra writers. And if I'm going to spend my budget, I'm going to spend it on the Viagra riders. I'm going to take them to dinner and wine and dine them and befriend them and try and get close with them. And it's not. It's just you doing your job at the time. And when I was carrying Cialis, that's fun, right? That's different. When I got moved to Houston, Texas, and I started carrying antidepressants and SSRIs and antipsychotics, and I've got, you know, a company telling me that to go promote an antipsychotic in areas that are totally off label, which absolutely happened. I was like, I'm not doing this. I want out of this space. And I got out as fast as I could and left into med device, where I saw a whole nother racket. Oh, my God, a whole nother red. Like, the surgical space is the Wild West. It's even more wild than Big Pharma.

[A]

In what ways?

[B]

Everyone assumes that because in a product's FDA approved that it's safe. Safe. So let's look at drugs. We know that roughly 30% of drugs end up getting recalled.

[A]

Vioxx, perfect example. Yeah.

[B]

And we know that most of the time they don't know the side effect. It's the third leading cause of death in America is our modern healthcare system. The drugs, the medications, and the equipment that we're using is the third leading cause of death. It's insane. They did a study out of John Hopkins, and the study was so damning that they moved it, I think, to Harvard or vice versa. And then they ended up publishing, I think, the Harvard study, the lesser of the two, and it still showed 30% of the 30% of. Of the products end up being recalled, which is crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So where it's even more wild in the med device space is most. Over 90% of the products that are in the operating room and implanted in your body have never had a human safety study.

[A]

How is that possible? Like, how are we. How are we okay with that? Like, how are the people at the top? Because. Okay, let me just. If I'm in charge of that, and that's me. And I'm thinking, okay, if I'm in a surgery and they have to use a medical device that's never been tested on humans, I want that for myself. That it's going to be tested.

[B]

Yeah. So what people. So what happened is Again, it's, it's. The system's built to fail. I would say it's really rigged. Yeah, the food and drug admit, fda.

[A]

Food, exactly that alone.

[B]

But they're food and drugs, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all of a sudden you go into the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and there's equipment that now gets dumped in their lap. And we're like, hey, we now need you to help manage operating rooms, surgical equipment, new technologies, biologics. But the FDA is going, well, wait a second. Our budget, it.50% of it's funded by the. The drug companies. Right. And so our focus in this machine is built to help push drugs into the marketplace and regulate drugs, however you want to view that. But we don't have the budget or the resources to monitor and manage all of this booming technology and innovation that's now getting dumped in our lab. So they said, we'll create a loophole called the 510k approval process. And all this means is if you can show me there's a like product in the operating room today, we will allow you to bring this product into the operating room without a human safety study. And so imagine it this way. You take a phone from your house in the 90s, a rotary phone that you're in, and you answer it. That could be a phone, and it gets approved for an iPhone operating room. Now you go to the now and you go to a cell phone. Now you go to an iPhone. Now you go to these smartphones that are crazy level of technology. It's a totally different piece of technology. You could daisy chain all the way to an iPhone without ever doing a human safety study. And that's what's happened. So now we're 30 years later on joints that have been in the operating room forever. And that's why there's these recalls. You know, one company had a joint that started squeaking. Another company had a joint that started sharding off metal into people's bodies. And that caused metal toxicity poisoning, which caused Alzheimer and dementia in patients, like, symptoms because they were getting metal toxicity. There's an array of ob GYN women's health products that are crazy mesh.

[A]

And a reason I remember this is because I was seeing those commercials that were like, if you have this mesh, like, call this lawyer. Because there were all these, like, lawsuits.

[B]

So the mesh was. Yes, they were using mesh in an array of procedures for hernias and different things. But in women, their uterus would start eating the mesh and get up into their uterus. The tissue would absorb it. And so now they Would have to have a total hysterectomy and remove their uterus because of this mesh. There was another one. I don't want to misquote it, I don't remember the device. But there was a. A device used to prevent women from getting pregnant. And it was literally mer they couldn't take it out. They. Because when they did the study, they only studied the implant and the efficacy of the product, but they didn't study the removal.

[A]

Was it an. A lot of.

[B]

Yeah. So a lot of women were having issues with them removing the this particular IUD and creating an array of health issues because you couldn't just take it out. Yeah. You even see it with testosterone pellets. You know people implant testosterone pellets. If you have an adverse event or have an abnormal reaction in a fast metabolizer, they have to leave that pellet in you and you just have to wait it out. So I had a female friend that had a stroke because she had such high levels and they just had to wait it out. They don't cut the pellet out. So now you're waiting out the chance of having another stroke because your hormones are so out of whack. And there's so many data sets like that in an operating. And there's no. When I say also the wild west, that's the approval process. Now this equipment's in the or. Now it's all being utilized, but there's also trunk stock. So whether I was a drug rep or a device rep, a lot of these drugs, let's say they were made and manufactured perfect. Let's say there is no risk factor and they're great rate. Okay, that's in the optimal environments, never exposed to heat or cold or put in a suboptimal environment where you could reduce the efficacy or potentially contaminate the compound. Reps are driving around with all this in their trunks of their cars. In Texas where it's literally 120° in the summer and everyone just has all these meds sitting in their trunks. Right. That's what it was.

[A]

And oh, that's so bad.

[B]

It's the same with medical devices. So when you read like a shaver blade that we put in your shoulder, it says store at room temperature. But every rep has to pay for their own storage units. To store this equipment. They store it in non climate controlled storage facilities in hundred something degree weather. They drive it around their cars and trucks in hundred something degree weather. It is never stored at room temperature. And then you have hospitals that at times have outbreaks of bacteria and infections and they go, where's this coming from? Well, it could be the fact that all these reps are running around with none of their stuff set up the way it's supposed to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just, it's the wild West. It's not, it's not this super safe space that people are told fall is.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm telling you, I was in this guy's office for four minutes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He had a little machine, like, it wasn't even a full machine. It was this tiny little like air. It was like an air gun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's happening there in. Where, like we don't know the upfront costs. I mean, people deal with this all the time. When you go to the hospital, people avoid going to the hospital because they're terrified that they're going to get this massive bill later. People don't want to go to the doctor because of what I just explained right now. What is happening in that world and why can't we figure this out?

[B]

I'm actually really glad you asked this. Okay. I'm so pumped about this because I haven't. I don't think I've talked about this yet. One of the things that happens is the insurance carrier sets the reimbursement rate. So let me give you an example. Back to something that's near and dear to me. Blood work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. I owned a blood lab and I went out and I still. That's what we do at waste. Well, we do comprehensive blood work, comprehensive analysis, proactive predictive medicine. Don't wait to get sick. Sick. Let's get ahead. Let's get proactive and predictive. Let's begin to measure your risk of chronic disease and intervene early and often. Like I said earlier, the disease that manifests in your 40s started in your 20s. We could have prevented it if we would have started working on it in your 20s. Cancer, when caught at stage zero, which we can do at Wastewell, has a 99% survival rate. 99%.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

But we don't catch it at zero in America because we don't screen for it. And when we do screen for it, we only screen for five types of cancer, whereas at wastewater, we screen for 200 types of cancer.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And we screen not based off imaging, but based off your blood biometrics, which allow us to see at the cellular level if a cancer is developing. Okay. So based off the example is blood lab. I would go to United Cigna, Aetna. I say I Built this brand new blood lab. I would like to be an in network partner with you. United Cigna. Aetna says no, we don't want you. We have our own blood labs that we have deals with, and we don't want another blood lab in our network. My options are lay everyone off, shut down my business, and lose my life savings or bill you as an out of network lab. What does that mean? It means the insurance company didn't agree to give me the contract even though it's a monopoly. So the, the gist of it is you're talking about thugs. These guys are the MOP mob. And so they won't give you a contract like they gave Quest or labcorp. So you're forced to bill what's called out of network. Okay. I would have billed your lab $350 if I was in network. And they would have paid me $350 because I'm out of network. If I bill Blue Cross Blue Shield $350, they will only pay me 30% of build charges. So now I have to artificially inflate what I build the insurance to get paid one third to get what I should have got if I was in network. And so a lot of times your clinician is tripling the price in order to get paid a lower dollar amount. But here's where that's a problem. Those same with those same gag clauses I was telling you about on the pharmacy side also exist on the practice side. And what they say is if I bill Blue Cross that dollar amount and Blue Cross short pays it, I'm required by law to go after you, the patient, for the difference. Right. And the insurance companies who set that up, not the lab, because as a lab, I didn't want to go after the patient for the difference. I'm required by law to show a reasonable attempt to collect. So I would send multiple letters and hope that the patient didn't get their feelings hurt or even pay it, because I wasn't trying to price gouge the patient. I was trying to get paid by their insurance company that was trying to screw everyone. And so your doctor is doing the same thing. And so a lot of times they're having to bill an inflated rate. And then even if they don't bill an inflated rate on anything they do, their contract says by the insurance company, they have to come after you for it. They have to make a reasonable effort to collect. That is not your doctor trying to price gouge you. That is the insurance company company trying to make you not want to get tested or treated. Right. And it's working because patients go, oh, God, dog. I don't know. I don't want you to do this to my ear. What if my insurance doesn't cover it? I'm going to get a bill. And that is why, number one reason for bankruptcy in America, health care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Number one, budgetary constraint to the federal government. Health care. Number one reason for the states, individual states, like, like initiatives and like, budgetary restraint. Healthcare. So everybody's getting clobbered by the games that these big insurance companies are playing. And we've allowed them to do it, and now they're so powerful and so big. I mean, you saw senators are scared of them, congressmen are scared of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The government is scared of them because that's who funds their lobby, that's who funds their campaigns is big insurance, big pharma and big medical. Does that make sense? Did I answer that?

[A]

Yeah. No. It's it's just crazy. Like, the. I'm just. I said this to you in the very beginning. Like, well, one, there's so much to unpack there. And two, it's a lot of this I have never heard before. But there's always been a lot of questions, right? Like what I just said, where I'm like, why did I get a bill for sixteen hundred dollars for this, like, you know, minor little thing? And also, I don't understand how people are affording this. Like, it's putting us into debt as a country. It's so illegal. It's so wrong. And your episode, when I heard it the first time, it made me realize, like, I. I've already made an enemy out of like, big food and big pharma. But I was like, oh, there's like an even bigger enemy. Big insurance, if you want to call it. That's like lurking in. In the dark, that nobody even really knows how any of it works. Like, it's all kind of this, like, we. We're all in the dark about it, which really bothers me. None of us really know what's going on, you know, with, like, even with like the co pays, like, I never know if I'm going to have to spend. Spend $5 on a prescription or I'm gonna get charged like a hundred dollars when I go to cvs, you know, like that or if God forbid, I.

[B]

Mean, it changes every month. Just so you know, when I owned a pharmacy, one, and this is the hardest part, you'd have these elderly women come in that are on four or five drugs and they'd come in a month later, and they've been filling that drug for six months. And they come in one month and all of a sudden I get a big on the machine that says, nope, we're not covering that drug anymore. You have to move, move this elderly woman to drug y because the reimbursement's better is the real reason. Not because it's a more efficacious drug. They move it down the tier. Plan based off who's willing to pay to play. Okay, Pfizer launched a new drug. They're willing to pay to play. Move her to this Pfizer blood pressure drug, you know, and you're forced to move it. And then these elderly couples or people would go, that's bullshit. I've had this drug for seven months. Or, and what do you mean it's not covered? And you're like, so, sir, I'm just the pharmacy. We're not. This isn't us. This is your insurance company doing this to you. And people are confused and they're lost and they just don't get it. And they're like, I don't get. And they're mad at everyone, but they don't know who to blame. And I'm telling them, like, all of this lies with the insurance company and the big pharmaceutical companies and that's who's monetizing all these chronic diseases and making the most. Who have the most to gain off of this system. System.

[A]

I mean, it's so corrupt, it's crazy. Are the pharmacies also involved in this? Are they getting like kickbacks? Or is it more. They're just similarly maybe to the doctors where they're just having to report back to the insurance and the pharma companies.

[B]

So what's happening is when we, and, and I, I brought this up again at the Senate when I talked about Eisenhower's speech about the military industrial complex, but people forget there's a second half to that speech where he talks about, about the capture of our scientific community and how if we allow private interest and private industry to capture our scientific community, we will have a corruption of the scientific industrial complex. And we do. That's what we're experiencing. They own academia, they own our three letter organizations that regulate them. They own the media outlets that report on adverse events and document any sort of issue that are only safety nets. The politicians and they control the reimbursements, control what drugs get covered, all of it. It runs so deep, it's so terrifying. And they make it really, really hard to fight. But one of the other things they're doing is going out and buying pharmacies. Right. So I own. Here's another example. When I owned my little retail pharmacy that build the insurance companies, I had shipped out almost $3 million to Texas residents in Blue Cross Blue Shield Drugs. Drugs, one month. Blue Cross Blue Shield just doesn't pay me. Wait, wait a second. I shipped all your patients these drugs. I took $3 million of my money and set it on fire for you guys. And you're supposed to reimburse me? We have a contract. Blue Cross says, we don't think you collected co pays. I say, okay, well we can audit that in the computer in 30 seconds. We collected 92% of CO pays. So at minimal, you owe me 92% of $3 million dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, we'll have to come do an audit. Okay, well how soon can you do it? Three months.

[A]

Three.

[B]

That's $9 million now. Now you want me to ship three more months at $3 million a month into Texas residents on your. And why would Blue Cross do that?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because they don't want you to exist. They want you out of business. Because who is buying up the pharmacies? CVS Health owns cvs, right? CVS Health, that owns CVS Caramark, the, the insurance PBM also owns CVS Pharmacy. And there's a lot of money made by selling soft drinks, candy, magazines, all the stuff that are in a CVS when somebody comes in and has to wait 30 minutes for their medicine because CVS sucks and their pharmacies are terrible.

[A]

And you also have to walk all the way to the back, back corner of the poison past all the stuff. I always think about that. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And so it's this again, corporate capture. And so what they'll do is you'll get not paid by an insurance company. And then a month later it's, hey, I heard it's tough out there for small little pharmacy. Would you consider selling to cvs? We're looking to buy a pharmacy in this area. And so they're attempting to put out independent pharmacies out of business in an effort to gobble it up and continue the corporate capture and to continue the control. And that was when I said, I'm done. I'm not going to operate in your system. I'm not going to do this insurance. I'm taking myself out of this. I'm taking the Wastewell client base out of this. We're going cash pay because cash pay allows the patient to have sovereignty over their health. And on most medications we can save them money, money. We can do it cheaper. And we're also going to try not to put you on medicines because the goal is to use food, diet, lifestyle and like strategy to drive your health span, not write a bunch of prescription drugs, push you out the door and tell you to come back in six months.

[A]

Oh, it's so amazing. I love so much what you're doing with ways to. Well, and we're going to talk about that in one second. I want to ask you one more question about all of this that I'm trying to understand too. Too. And I brought it up a little bit, but I don't fully understand what is happening with the deductibles. So let's say like I have, I think mine's like a three thousand dollar a year deductible and if I, you know, go to the doctor and I don't even understand how it works because now there's two different deductibles that are happening. Right. And it's like I have to meet one and then they'll start covering after I've met that. Like what, what's happening with that whole situation.

[B]

So that's where, that's where this. You're, you're great. I'm telling you because you're setting up your, the whole thing we talked about earlier with the PBMs, capturing money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you going, well, wait a second. Why would the insurance want it to look like. Think about this a lot. And there's thousands of plans, so. Thousands of different insurance plans. So I don't know your particular plan, but a lot of plans have what's called a donut, okay. And what they'll say is once you've exhausted $10,000 in coverage, you, the patient have to cover the next $10,000. Okay. Before they kick back in.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

So it's a race to wipe out your $10,000. If I lie to you and tell you that your drug cost me 1500 and it cost me 500, I'm going to get to the 10,000 faster. So within three or four months, I've burned up up your coverage. Now I force you back to having to buy all the shit out of your own pocket. But here's where it gets more sickening. You are stuck paying the retail price because the pharmacy cannot tell you that the cash price is cheaper. Now put yourself in Meemaw's shoes. Grandma's shoes, right. Your poor grandma goes in there and she's on four or more prescription drugs and she's in a Medicare plan that has a donut. And that plan, the price points of the drugs are still set by who? The big five fucking insurance companies. And so they burn up her copay and deductible and coverage force Meemaw, poor Meemaw, to come out of pocket so she can't take all her prescription drugs or just come off them until the following year where it's covered again. And that's what's happening, happening over and over and over. And so there are literally a dozen levers that these insurance companies can pull to you to literally find a way to make money off you. And then eventually, if you're that anomaly of a patient that they can't make money off of, it's just like the girl who wrecked her car too many times, they're going to cancel your plan. They're going to say, we're not going to cover you next year. We refuse to cover this individual. It's too expensive. Expensive, right. And that's why people resort back to employer plans where they're part of a group, where they're part of the herd and they're somewhat protected. But by being part of the herd, like again, my companies, my pharmacy and WasteWell, over 330 employees, they can hide the cost and hide the profitability and move levers. And that, that audit, I told you, in the state of Ohio, it took 32 forensic auditors to uncover 200 something million in fraud. God, what is a company like me going to do? Go hire 32 forensic auditors to go dig through all the misrepresentation of, of like literally thousands of prescriptions that the insurance company says all of my employees filled. I don't have the bandwidth to do that. Nobody does.

[A]

Or the money.

[B]

So we're all getting screwed.

[A]

Yeah. So you started your company as a result, as kind of like a you to the system, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So do you still have a compounding pharmacy or is it just like blood work?

[B]

And so my compounding pharmacy has. It's treated over a million patients nationwide. We're in 43 states. Our premise is we started out in the gaps. So I took that book that I would get the phone book size of everything that insurance companies said, hey, we're not covering this anymore. Patients are screwed. And I said, let's make all this. And that's how we started started. And we're like, we're going to make everything that insurance won't make, won't cover. Right. And then we call it the we coverage of the gaps. Right. We would find the gaps what are they not covering? Let's make that and then eventually we've refined it and for to be profitable because margins are lower when you run things fairly. So we have to actually focus on the drugs that can make us enough money. And so we focus mainly on longevity and preventative care type medications because none of that's covered from the insurance companies. And so a lot of what we manufacture at our facility are hormone optimization drugs like testosterone, estrogens, peptides, A lot of what the telemedicine longevity clinics like, a lot of what Peter Atia talks about, a lot of those are compounded unique propri proprietary blends. And that's the type of stuff we make. But then also, if there's a drug that they're price gouging the American people on, on and there's a loophole that allows us to make it and there's coverage from the FDA to make it, we will make those drugs. But even if you do make those drugs within the confines of what the FDA asks you to make, you still risk getting sued by these big pharmaceutical companies because they don't have to win the lawsuit, they just have to drown you.

[A]

Yeah. And they have to put you out of business.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's the same racket that I dealt with in the insurance system system, except the racket now is when am I getting sued by the next pharmaceutical company? Because they'll just serve you papers at your house at six in the morning when you're out trying to drink your coffee, try and wreck your life, stress you out and bully you out of the marketplace. But now I'm to a point where I'm at a point where I'm punching back like, I'm not going to let them bully me out of a marketplace. I'm going to fight back. And.

[A]

Well, especially because what you're doing is actually really helping people. Like what we're talking about is what you said earlier, where an insurance company and a doctor will wait until, until you actually have diabetes before they diagnose you. And I've talked so much. I've had so many like integrative doctors on this podcast and I've always asked them. I'm like, I don't understand why, why are these conventional allopathic doctors waiting until you have diabetes? Cause they're, they're getting your blood work and they're seeing those numbers go up and they're not telling you any of that. In fact, I think it was Callie Means that had a story where his sister looked at his blood work and he had gone to the doctor, and his doctor, I believe it was Callie, he went to the doctor and his doctor was like, oh, you're totally fine. Everything's normal. Numbers are great, blah, blah. And then he had Cali, or he had Casey, his sister, who's a doctor, look at it. And she was like, oh, no, my guy. Like, your numbers are going up in this direction. Like, we got to recalibrate things. And then now he's great and he's fine and he didn't go in the wrong direction. But if you don't know that this is happening, one, with your doctors, and two, you don't know to go to like a naturopathic doctor, an integrative doctor, and you don't know how to read your blood work. You could be going to your doctor every year. And they're like, oh, you're totally fine, you're healthy. And meanwhile, you're on the fast track to diabetes, cardiovascular, vascular disease.

[B]

It's all of it. And they will tell you two reasons. Two. Two. Yes, you're spot on. And there's two reasons that happens. One, our measuring stick in America is based off the average American, and the.

[A]

Average American's really sick, which is chronically.

[B]

Ill. Again, four or more medications, chronic disease, through the roof. 50% D obese or. Or overweight. Sorry. And a huge percentage obese. Like, this is crazy. Crazy. And so you're basing it off a sick sample size at ways to. Well, and at most of these longevity practices or practices focused on functional medicine, however you want to term it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The preventative practices narrow that demographic down. So we base it on 18 to 25, a healthy 18 to 25 year old. Where were all of your biomarkers on these 70 plus biomarkers? Years. Let's get you back to there. Because the goal is not to be normal. Nobody wants. I didn't ever wake up saying, I want to be average. No, I want to be optimal. I want to be the best I can be. Help me get to the best I can be. And if we begin to look at health the way we look at a business or the way we look at any other aspect of our life, in a business, I set quarterly goals, quarterly initiatives, and I track my progress, measurables and executables, key performance indicators. That's what you do as an entrepreneur. You should use that same blueprint for your health. And that's what we do at wasteful. That's what Peter Attia preaches. That's what so many of these thought Leaders preach and they're spot on because you're getting proactive, you're getting predictive, you're narrowing the tolerances, you're not waiting for somebody to develop the chronic disease. You're stopping chronic disease in its tracks. And how you do that is to get proactive and predictive and begin to shut it down before it ever manifests. And you can do that if you're measuring and looking and analyzing and assessing and then refining. So Q1, my blood work was at this on these 70 biomarkers. We made this game plan. We said the goal by Q4 is for your blood work to be this. We test it again in Q4 and we reassess. Are we headed the right way way or the wrong way? And I can go even further with what we're doing with Allen and AI. We can begin to project out the risk of all cause mortality, the risk of various chronic diseases, your overall health score, your overall longevity score. So for instance, let's say you're a 40 year old woman and you say I want to live. You want to live to be 100, right? And a lot of people go, well, I don't care if I live. If you could live to be a healthy, happy, sentient centenarian that could play with your grandkids and run around and be healthy and go on vacation with your friends and your loved ones, you would want to live to be a hundred people. Just don't want to be sick to 100 because that's not living. But if we can drive health span and the number one indicator to becoming a centenarian is the onset of chronic disease. And so if we can delay the onset of chronic disease through getting proactive and predicted addictive, we can drive the chances of you living a longer life indirectly. And no matter what, we're going to help you live a better life because you're not chronically ill.

[A]

Exactly. That's what I was just going to say. Because I get a lot of pushback from people online and they're like, oh, just like live a little bit. Like don't you want to let loose and have fun? And I'm like, I, I have a lot of fun. And also I feel like the food I eat tastes amazing. But also like that's also not the point. I also want to go through life having energy. Energy, yeah, I have a lot that I want to accomplish when I'm here on this planet. I feel like I'm here on a freaking mission and I can't do that if I'm sick. I want to have kids. I can't deal with kids if I'm sick and I'm chronically lethargic and I can barely get out of bed. And, you know, I'm on a fast track to diabetes and I'm gaining weight. Like, you can't live your best life if you go through life feeling, like, with, like, four comorbidities.

[B]

When I was a little kid, I remember when I was like, eight, nine, all the way through my teens, my dad was overweight, and he was drinking beer and dipping tobacco and eating burgers and all these things. And I swear to God, I remember as a kid, my grandma and people talking to him about his health. And my dad would always say, I'm gonna die fat and happy. I'm gonna die fat and happy. And that's a lie that people tell themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because my dad is now only in his 60s and he is chronically ill, in and out of the hospital. Diabetes, atherosclerosis, heart disease, all sorts of cognitive decline. He is in terrible health in his 60s. And then you look at friends that I have that are fit and healthy in their 50s and 60s, and they're living the best years of their life. And Jordan Peterson has a quote that he talks about. You don't get to choose not to take the medicine. You just get to choose which medicine to take. You get to choose your hard. There is inaction is a choice. Action is a choice. You can choose to pay your dues and work today towards health, or you are going to be forced to suffer the consequences tomorrow. There is no easy way out. It's coming for all of us, but we can delay it and we can prevent it, and we can hopefully buy time. Time. Because there are fascinating things happening that I've talked about. I think only on Joe before, and a lot of people probably, but Dr. Ian White is one of my mentors. Harvard Ansari STEM Cell Institute. 22 years at the bench researching stem cells, and we are doing amazing things with stem cell treatments and the direction of the future. And what Dr. White talks about, and this is out there stuff, but this is real, tangible, scientific stuff, stuff that may exist in the future. We share a common ancestor with the eternal jellyfish that lives 5,000 years. We share a common ancestor with the Galapagos tortoise that lives hundreds of years. We share a common ancestor with the Greenland shark that lives over 600 years.

[A]

Never heard any of that.

[B]

We share DNA with all of these ancestors. Within our genome are these. These data sets. And you have Brilliant scientists out there using AI algorithms and AI driven systems to try and find these genes and figure out can we turn them on. And so my message to people who think they need a total joint can you buy yourself two years, three years, four whatever it is. Because if you get a joint today, you're going back under the knife within eight years. If you get a spine procedure today, day there's a 65% chance you're going to have another spine procedure within two years. You are now in the system. But if we can keep you out of the system, if we can start early, if we can prevent and buy you time, there are brilliant minds out there. Somebody is going to find that lightning in a bottle. Is it Dr. White? Is it one of these other Peter Atas Is it? Who is it? Is it? Somebody's going to find that lightning in a bottle and when they do, you've made it long enough to avoid being in that system. And that's all I'm trying to preach is take autonomy and sovereignry over your health. Do not let these people drive yours and your family's healthc care journey. Don't do it. Do not do it. Like view it as car insurance. It is there. If you wreck the car car y if you have a disaster and you need surgery, yes, use your insurance.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

But if you think your insurance is going to provide you proactive predictive preventative medicine, you're dead wrong and you're headed towards chronic disease. You are going to have to take accountability and this is not and so many people message after I go on Rogan and go must be nice to be Joe. I can't afford that. It is literally a comprehensive blood test is 500 but that's with 45 minutes with a doctor doing a deep dive into you at the biological level. If you break that down over a 12 month time frame, you're talking about basically 50 bucks a month. What do you spend on your car payment? What do you spend on a mattress? What do you spend on your house note? Those are tangible, material things that come and go. You get one body your entire life. This is your one shot shot 400 trillion to one and you're going to ruin it. You're going to let it go because you're worried about spending $50 and I'm not telling you to go to waste. Well, there are hundreds if not thousands of great longevity like preventative care practices out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Find somebody not in the insurance model. Interview them like you would a maid, a mechanic, a contractor on a house. Don't just go, go blindly, let somebody start taking care of your health and wellness. This is your life.

[A]

This is your life.

[B]

Take it serious. Take a little pride in it. And if you do, I think you're going to be amazed at how many more answers you get. When you have a clinician that can actually run a test, that can actually have a conversation with you directly and say, hey, here are our options. I can do this. Here's the pros and cons. We could go this route. Here's the pro. It's a dialogue. Your primary care and an insurance model won't do that because they don't have.

[A]

The option to and they also don't have the time. They sit with you for six minutes. I mean, I, you know, I talk about this a lot on the podcast, so my audience is well versed with this. But I'm such a proponent for this preventative medicine, as I know you are too. Because the biggest thing for me is when I go into one of those doctors, I sit down with them and we have a conversation for an hour, an hour, hour. And we go over my past, like every health thing I've been through my whole life, like down to was I breastfed. Like, we get into the details of it, right? And then they look at my blood work and then I see them every couple months and we can go, oh, you're. This number went up a little bit. Oh, but this one has gotten better. And like we can fine tune things. And I mean, to your point, what you said about your dad, like, I see this with my parents and the opposite. My parents are 70 years old and they still ski.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

They go hiking with me. They are in the best shape of their freaking lives. They're retired and they are living their. My parents just went to Switzerland with their friends and went on like a 10 day hiking trip in Switzerland.

[B]

Oh, I love it.

[A]

And they're 70.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

Like, that's what I want. Life that's living.

[B]

Like, you don't want to be chronically ill, riddled in a bed just waiting to die. That's not living.

[A]

No. And most people, their reality now, like what you were saying earlier, if you're not four forced, if you don't face your wellness and make time for it, you will be forced to face illness. And it's going to come pretty fast. I mean, look around right now. We talked about this with the Senate hearing and all the statistics are dark and they're getting worse and it's to the point now where if you are not taking ownership over your health and doing something about it for you, you will end up in this broken system that we've just been talking about for an hour. And it's going to kill you. It's literally going to kill you.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy. And when you said optimism, I will say, like the positive is, yeah, there are so many amazing clinics out there and new tools are coming out every day. In our tool belt, the cancer screening I talked about, that's brand new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's only been on the market a short period of time and it's not going to be readily available at a primary care practice because you're in an insurance model and insurance is not covering those type of screenings.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The cost of money and candidly, 80% of an oncologist's income comes from the chemotherapy medications.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They want to get you marking up those drugs. And so there's a lot of conflicting issues with the system. But the positives are there are so many new, cool, innovative tools in the tool belt. And the price point of those tools is being driven down every day between. Between biologics, artificial intelligence technology, additional screening tools like adexa and a VO2 max. I don't know if you have ever done those or had anyone talk to you.

[A]

The oxygen thing.

[B]

VO2 is oxygen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So VO2 is an amazing tool to assess your overall overall cardiovascular health and conditioning. And if you're in the top 25% of VO2 max health score, your all cause mortality risk is reduced by 400%. Right. And these are. That's one tool that we use at ways to. Well, to assess your health. The biomarkers are another tool. A DEXA scan historically was used to assess a woman's bone mineral density and tell a woman if she was headed towards osteoporosis. But the amazing part about this tool is it also tells us how much lean muscle mass you have, how much fat you have have how much visceral fat you have, how much muscles on your right bicep versus your left, your right quad versus your left, your right calf versus your left. And we are deep diving and building out an entire model and algorithm of you. And we know at 25 you were at this, at 35 you were at this. And now we're quantifying your decline on these various metrics or your improvement on these various metrics. And if we can help women maintain lean muscle mass into their 40s and 50s, we increase their chance at longevity. If we can help men and Women reduce their risk of losing bone mineral density. We can reduce their risk of fracture, and we can help drive their, their longevity. There's so many cool, cutting edge new tools and AI is going to fundamentally change all of it. I mean, it already is, but it's, it's insane what the future is going to be. Yeah, we just got to hold on long enough.

[A]

Yeah. True, true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I want to ask you one more thing about ways to. Well, because I'm curious. So I've found some workarounds with. Because I know it's really expensive and I know that's people's like, biggest concern when they're switching over from going to a doctor in their network versus having to cash pay. But I've found with some of my doctors, I'm actually able to get what's called a super bill, where they essentially like show everything that they've done that I've paid for cash and I send it in my insurance. And sometimes, not always sometimes they'll, they'll actually pay for part of it at least. Do you guys do that at all with ways to. Well, or is there any way.

[B]

Yeah, we'll get people bills and let them try and get their insurance to reimburse, but a lot of times they don't. Yeah, but what does happen is you do have those employee health plans where you're allowed to stockpile money away tax free and that, that those HSAs do cover these treatments. And then one of the things that California and a lot and Casey are talking about too, is trying to expand that to larger dollar amounts and better coverage. Right. If we really want to get healthy as a nation, we're not going to be able to do it within the confines of this insurance model. No, but imagine a world where patients were allowed to deduct tax tax free, set aside that money and then write off their care on anything they're doing, preventing and reduce that cost. You know, if they could get 35% off, you're. You're literally talking about a couple hundred dollars a year to stay proactive and predictive. You're not talking about thousands and thousands of dollars. Like it's literally a couple hundred dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To stay healthy and stay out of it and stay away from it. And that's again where I think large language models will drive the price down. Because a lot of the expenses is human capital, human resources, the trained nurse practitioners, the clinicians, the doctors, the staff required to provide this modality and these treatments to the patient. As AI progresses, AI will be able to Read the mri. AI will be able to read the blood work. AI will be able to do the consults. And that's what we're already doing with Alan, our AI chatbot. I made him like this funny little alien as the first pilot. But we're going to give part of personalized is giving patients their own characters. Character. So maybe somebody doesn't want an alien. Maybe they want, you know, a more rigid, traditional doctor in a white lab coat. Okay, well, that can be your clinician. And that clinician will talk to you in a way you prefer. You can turn on cussing or off cussing. You can turn on humor or off humor. Your avatar will review your blood work. And then at the end you'll get a human clinician that will hop on the phone with you. But instead of my clinician having to spend an hour with you, you, if I can carve that down to 20 minutes, I can drive down the price and start to make this affordable for everyone. And that's the goal with these large language models. It's not to provide lesser care and cut out the human element. It's to use the tool for good and to use the tool to make this affordable for the average American. Because right now people are suffering and they're scared that they can't afford to be healthy. Healthy. And the sad thing is you can't afford to be sick. That's what's bankrupting people. Yeah, it's not being healthy that's bankrupting people. We've got to get our priorities straight and we've got to figure out a way to make this affordable for everybody.

[A]

I agree. And look like when I first started digging into all of this, I mean, I was working like three jobs and I was buying organic food, I was going to see naturopathic doctors. But because I was being so crazy about my budget, like I was not eating out, I was not doing postmates. And you know, I, I say all this being sensitive that I know everybody's on different budgets and I'm, I'm on a different budget now. But I'm also of the mind that when you really fight for your health and you're healthy and you're clear minded, you're going to be able to show up for your job better, you're going to be able, you're going to think clearer. And I'm of the mind that like when you're in that space, you're going to make more money and you're going to be thriving and like everything is going to be fine and that's my whole mentality. And that's where I got to where I was, where I felt like I fought like tooth and nail to stay healthy and get my mind right and to really get to this place. And I feel like if people can get to that place where they prioritize their health, because I think we have a lot of priorities very skewed right now. You know, everybody's wanting the new iPhone every year, the new iPhone, and like postmating every meal. If we can just help people understand that investing in your health will dramatically change your life in so many different ways.

[B]

I would say that I have friends still from high school that, you know, are Texas people that live in the suburbs. And they're like, oh, $500 is cra. But you're. You have a brand new Louis Vuitton purse. You go and have margaritas every Friday night and drop $250 on Mexican food and margaritas. You just don't give a. I'm sorry. Like, at some point somebody's got to say, the emperor wears no clothes. It's not. I love that we can't make this work for everybody and not have a profit. Like, everybody has to be profitable for this to be sustainable.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But we don't have the type of profits that big pharma and big insurance have. Right. That's where it's just price gouging and robbing people of their health and monetizing their illness. And that's my problem with that. I have no problem with a entrepreneur or a clinician or somebody making a profit.

[A]

Like, nobody works for free.

[B]

Your yard guy doesn't work for free. Your landscape or your painter, your nanny people, you don't work for free. So don't expect your clinician to work for free. Free. But they shouldn't be price gouging you.

[A]

No. And the way I see this too is like, this is like a big, like, fu to that big system. Like, f you, you can't control me. You can't make me sick. I'm going to get out of this system and I'm going to fight tooth and nail to get out of that system and make sure that I stay out of it. And like you said, I pay for my health insurance because God forbid if I was ever to get in a horrible accident. But honestly, I never touch it. Otherwise. It's very rare if I ever have to use it, you know, Know. And that's just, it's. It's also just one of those things where it's the unfortunate reality of, of the society that we live in. And, and when we know all of this, like we just, we know that it exists and we have to do the best we can to get out of that system.

[B]

And I know everyone's under different constraints and it's just, it's never about being perfect. It's about being better and trying to be a little bit better every day and trying to make better choices every day. But part of making better choices is understanding how and understanding why. Why? And again, like an example of the dexa. If I can quantify for you and say Joe Bob, you're at 250 pounds, 100 pounds of body fat, you are headed towards all of these chronic diseases. Here's your blood work. I can now with this tool tell you exactly how many calories to eat per day, how many grams of protein you need to eat per day. And you I have nutritionist. You can get on the phone with a waste. Well nutritionist as part of your plan, no additional fees or you can just ask Alan, the AI bot like Alan, literally you say Alan based off my dexa, how many grams of protein do I need per meal? Well, how many meals are you eating a day? I want to eat three. Okay, you need this much protein. Can you give me an example of a meal plan, Alan? No problem. An example of a meal plan would be grilled chicken, quinoa, blah blah blah blah blah. Can you get me that recipe Alan? No problem. Here's a recipe for that exact dish.

[A]

Ish.

[B]

Right. It's AI in your pocket 24 7. And everyone's going to have this like everyone, every company is going to have this within a, within three years.

[A]

Yeah, it's there. It's going to be fast. Yeah.

[B]

And we will be able to help people find cost effective ways to drive their health span. That's the hope, that's the vision.

[A]

This is so cool. I love so much that you're doing this. So how does it work? So you're based in Austin but you said that you're all over. So let's say somebody I'm in Denver. Like if I wanted to be involved in Denver, how does that work?

[B]

So it varies. Most of what we do is we can do via telemedicine. So like we have mobile phlebotomy across the United States. I think in, in 30 something states ways dwells in now. I don't, I don't know that it's changing every day. The goal is to be in all 50 states by the end of this year. So California may be one of the limiting states we don't go into because they have a lot of weird state regs and laws.

[A]

They have a lot of weird ones.

[B]

Medical and I have over 300 employees. Employees. And apparently if I step in foot in the state of California, I have to change all of my HR to meet California's crazy HR rules. And I can't do that. I'm in Texas and we have 300 something people in California. Crazy, insane HR rules.

[A]

Yeah, California is not California.

[B]

I think we'll be in 49 states by the end of this year. Cool. Most of what we do is virtual. So blood work. I can send a mobile phlebotomist to somebody's house or they can go to a quest or a lab court, buy their house. House. They'll pull the blood for us, we'll get it back, we'll put it in our AI algorithm. It'll get loaded into a system. The patient has the opportunity to interact with Allan where he'll review any questions they have. But then they also get a 45 minute phone call with a clinician that will hop on the phone and deep dive into all of those biomarkers. And then The DEXA and VO2 is an in person test and any stem cell treatments or any of the in person treatments do require a visit to the clinic. And then unfortunately today my clinics are only in Houston, Texas and Austin. But we do have plans on expanding into strategic areas. Denver's one of the places.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

Arizona is another spot. Miami or somewhere in Florida. There's key markets where we have a big presence and it would make sense to open a brick and mortar so we can have people do the dex and the VO2. But the beauty of those is that's a once a year tax test. You don't have to go to ways to. Well, if you go get a dexa, we could load that into the algorithm. If you get a VO2 max, we can load that into our algorithm. We don't. We're not making money off those tests. We're just trying to do them to gather the data necessary to drive your health.

[A]

That's so cool. Well, I love so much what you're doing. I'm so grateful for people like you that are providing these, you know, these resources for people because this is how we get out of a sick nation, you know, and you're part of that and it's really cool.

[B]

So thank you. Thank you for having me on here too. Appreciate it.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming on. This is like this is one of my favorite episodes. I'm so excited to release this. I feel like people are going to be like their minds are going to be blown. They're a little, they're going to be a little bit freaked out, but so maybe we leave them with a positive, happy note of. I don't know what you want to say, but I feel like you've kind of already said this, but I really want to reiterate it that even though it feels like all hope is lost and everything's doom and gloomy and this is fucked up and we're getting fucked left, right and center and all this stuff, the cool thing is we have a lot of solutions and we have a lot of people working towards these solutions. So we have a lot of options. We just need to know that this is happening.

[B]

And I said it earlier and I said it in front of the Senate, 400 trillion to one. That's the number. Like we talked about a lot of statistics of chronic disease and all these very sad things. But the positive is 400 trillion to 1 are the chances you're alive today. And we're alive, live, we're breathing. Like we can all celebrate that. Let's keep our health, let's take ourselves out of the system. Let's not let these people monetize us. Let's not be cattle that are part of the cattle call. Like we can get proactive and predictive and it is not that expensive and it's going to get cheaper every day, every week, every month, every year. We are going to drive down the cost of healthcare and make this affordable for everybody.

[A]

I love that. I also feel like right now specifically, and maybe it's with the Maha movement and we just spoke at the Senate and there's a lot, lot. For the first time ever, I've always been really hopeful because I'm, I'm just super optimistic. But for the first time ever, I have never been so optimistic about us changing this because it's finally being talked about on a large stage. Like it's, it's becoming political, which if you, however way you want to paint that, I see it as a good way simply because we're finally talking about it on a national level. I agree.

[B]

Even, even if you look at the negative, naysayers of that Senate hearing were, oh, it's going right wing or whatever. And I'm not right. And I don't think you're right. But what's fascinating is it woke up the other side because the right was trying to say this is their movement. You know, obviously, RFK's moved with Trump and all that, but for all of us, our. Our thing was, whoever wins this election, we're begging you to address this issue and to take this serious and to help stop, Stop this corporate capture and help Americans get healthy, because.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's a huge risk to this nation.

[A]

Well, the. And this is a bipartisan issue. I was just on Alex Clark's podcast, and I, I said this. I was like, look, you're. The health of your body. It doesn't know if you're left or right. Like, this is not like, you know what I mean? It's not like you're not going to get sick if you're right.

[B]

You know, like cancer doesn't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat.

[A]

Exactly. So, like, this is affecting all of. Of us. The only thing I will say. And then we don't have to get into it. We can close this. But I'm of the mind that I believe that rf. I think RFK and Trump have to get in in order for us to really address this. And this is coming from somebody who's been. I've been a lifelong Democrat. I've voted Democrat my whole life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I, I think right now with what's happening, and I was actually at a. A movie premiere last night where somebody was talking about this on a panel with Cali Means, and Cali also said this on Joe Rogan. Rogan. Because of what RFK is potentially going to be able to do with that administration. I'm of the mind that this is the only way that we're going to be able to fix this now. God forbid, if it goes the other direction, I'm praying to God that it will get addressed. I just feel like there's a lot of big pharma collusion happening. And I'm not saying it's not happening on both sides.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I just see one side talking about it right now. And again, like, I just. That that's the only thing that concerns me a little bit.

[B]

I've had the privilege of getting to know Bobby over the last year. And I mean, I just think he's a great human. And I think Tulsi Gabbard's an amazing human. And I know them on a human level. Forget politics. And I know they want to do right. And so any team that they're on will have my support because I believe that they truly care. And to me, as long as we can work together and communicate and push for the betterment of society, and humanity. I'm team humanity.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

And I do hope that regardless of who wins, people are willing to step up and help drive this initiative rather than use it as another way to just plug Big Pharma and Big Food.

[A]

Yes. And I feel like that's where we leave it. And I just love that you said I'm team humanity, because I say that literally all the time on my Instagram. So I'm like, yes. Okay. So I have one personal question for you is how I end the episode.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm curious to hear what yours are. So what are your health? Non negotiables. These are things that, like, no matter how crazy your day or week is, you prioritize for yourself and for your own health.

[B]

You know what's crazy is I used to overcomplicate it and I listened to the Matthew McConaughey book Green Lights. Have you ever heard that?

[A]

I haven't, but I love.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Okay, check that out.

[B]

He just talks about he. It's non negotiable to get a sweat and try to get a sweat every day. And so I try to never go two days without getting a word workout. No matter what, no matter how hard it is. If I have to get up early and do cardio on the stair, anything is better than nothing because it's so easy to slip into. Oh, it's been two weeks and I haven't worked out. And I've done it. I was a device rep and I went months where I would wake up and go, I'm tired, I'm anxious, I'm stressed. Oh my God, I haven't worked out in two months. I'm just so busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I got to a point where even if I have to get up at 3am, I'm going to make sure I try to sweat every other day. And my goal is just to work out every day, like a 45 minute workout, you know, five days a week and stay in motion. But thankfully, now with the way my lifestyle is, it's become entrenched. So I'm pretty disciplined and regimented. And so I train Muay Thai, I do ice baths, I do sauna. To me, sauna is so therapeutic. Mentally, emotionally, physically going through that. I feel so good. I agree. I've been great. And once you get those endorphins, it is a drug, a healthy drug. Like, you're like, oh my God, I need to do the song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so those are, those are the things that I try to use the tools in my tool bell and Then food. You know, I'm the worst. Like, I'm not great on food. I try to just make smarter decisions and not overeat and just be intelligent, make sure I get enough proteins and minimize sugars. Um, and that. That's really my approach. And just be healthier, make better decisions. Like I said earlier, it's not about being perfect. It's about being better.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. It's about the little choices that you make every day that add up. And if you're making a choice here and there that's not that great, it's fine if it's not every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on.

[B]

Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah. Please let everybody know.

[B]

I'm really glad we met at the Senate hearing.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

It's really been a fun ride.

[A]

I know. This has been an amazing ride, and I'm so grateful to be on this ride with you together, because it feels like, yeah, we might actually be able to really make some change, which is really cool.

[B]

Finger crossed.

[A]

Fingers crossed. Okay, so please let everybody know where they can find you, where they can find ways to. Well, all of it.

[B]

Waystowell.com weighs the number two well and then weighs two. The number two well is the Instagram, the X, all of that jazz. And then mine is just Ferris Bueller 81. Because my last name is Bueller.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. Awesome. Thank you so much.

[B]

All right, thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast. Podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.