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- [00:01]
A
On today's episode of the Real Foodology.
- [00:03]
B
Podcast, my big goal is to just awaken the mothers, because I think those. That's where this change is going to come from. Like, as moms are like, I need to help this kid, I. I feel in my heart that something's wrong. They shouldn't be wetting the bed this late. They shouldn't be waking up this many times a night. They shouldn't be grinding their teeth. And then they start to put the pieces together and find help. And as they demand more of that kind of care for their kids, they. The dentistry will start to catch on and medicine will start to catch on, and we can hopefully really change what we're doing wrong, because we're doing a lot wrong right now.
- [00:39]
A
Hillary, thank you so much for coming on the Real Footology podcast. I'm so happy to be here with you.
- [00:42]
B
Thanks for having me. This is so exciting.
- [00:44]
A
This is so exciting. I was actually telling you right before we started recording that the timing of this is kind of funny because I've been having a lot of sleep issues the last couple years, and I just recently had a sleep test done, and the doctor told me me that I was like, borderline sleep apnea. He didn't actually diagnose me with it, but he was like, you're on the cusp of it and could probably be having some symptoms because you're so close to having it. So I want to actually dive into that first because I'm sure maybe some of my listeners are also going, okay, well, I didn't even know that somebody could have sleep apnea that didn't have, like, a weight issue.
- [01:18]
B
Yeah.
- [01:19]
A
Because my. My thinking was always, oh, you're super. If. If somebody is carrying a lot of extra weight on them, then of course they would have sleep apnea because they have all this weight on their organs. But I didn't realize that it could also be other things.
- [01:30]
B
Yeah, that is one of the things about this that's really tricky is because there's this young, fit female profile that we talk a lot about in airway dentistry, where you are the type of patient that would totally fall through the cracks. And people just think that they have insomnia or they grind their teeth or they have some TMJ issue, and it all comes back to this fragmented sleep that they're having. So. So that's actually how I fit into the sleep apnea. I don't have sleep apnea, but I kind of think of it as like a grayscale, and I have what we call upper airway resistance syndrome, which just means I don't breathe through my nose very well. And because of that, I end up mouth breathing at night. And then my tongue can fall back in my airway a little bit. And I have all these compensation patterns that I use to prevent that from happening, which causes, like, head and neck tension. Cause I think I'm doing little tricks in the night to keep my airway open than I have been my whole life. But if your tongue falls back in your airway, it's going to cause a microarousal. And then you kind of get this fragmented sleep, or you wake up because your body doesn't feel safe. And then you don't get the kind of rest that you need. You don't get through your sleep cycles properly. So I've been doing palatal expansion on myself, and I can breathe through my nose now, and that's all getting better. Wow. But, like, really hard to diagnose because women have a lower threshold for arousal. So we're not going to, like, totally conk out into an apnea for 10 seconds like a man would. And so we don't get diagnosed with sleep apnea because of that. And then people say, you're fine, you don't have sleep apnea. And in reality, you have a problem that needs to be addressed with your jaws, but nobody really notices or helps.
- [03:08]
A
It's so. Oh, my gosh, this is exactly what's happening to me. And I also want to ask you. So don't let me forget about what you just said about doing the expansion thing, because that's definitely going into everything. I also want to talk about with the jaw and all that. But what's so interesting is that. So the whole reason I started doing this is two reasons. One, I actually don't know that I've ever known what it's like to wake up feeling fully rested. If I sleep, like, 10 hours, I still will just, like, not fully feel rested. And then with my fiance, he started saying to me, you're like, snoring a lot. And nobody has ever told me that, like, I've had, like, boyfriends, like ex boyfriends in the past be like, oh, yeah, you kind of snore last night in a little bit. But he's the first person to tell me, oh, no. Like, it's kind of happening consistently. So I had this sleep test done, and there was the apnea thing. And then he also was like, you have, like, a bear. It's so funny because all of these are, like, just barely Borderline, like, he was like, you have a little bit of like deviated septum thing going on. Like, he doesn't know that it's enough for me to actually get surgery. Maybe we're going to assess it. But yeah. So what were you saying about the. So I guess my question is, so you have it, so what are you doing about it? And what would you recommend someone doing that has sleep apnea that can help with all of that?
- [04:21]
B
So for adults, I really like to remodel the palate because the roof of the mouth is the floor of the nose. When you look at a CT scan, that little thin piece of bone is also the floor of the nose. And when we widen the palate, we can also widen the nose. And when we widen the palate also, like we take a high voltage palate and kind of flatten it out and it'll help straighten out a deviated septum. So the deviated septum is often wrinkled because it. The palate grew vaulted instead of flat. And it kind of takes that bone that was meant to be longer and wrinkles it up. And then you'll have maybe one nostril that doesn't work as well because of it. So as we remodel the palate, like immediately you just feel the nose start to open up.
- [04:58]
A
Wow. So how do we do that? Can you do that now?
- [05:01]
B
Yeah. I like to use a product called Vivos. It's a removable appliance because I don't. There's also something called Marpi, which is basically an expander that's screwed into the palate with implants. But for me, you have a lisp when you have that in. And I just, I'm not willing to walk around with a lisp.
- [05:18]
A
I can't be podcasting without.
- [05:20]
B
It also creates a giant diastema as the Marpi opens. And a Vivos is like way more gentle. Like, I've been wearing mine since the summer. I have a little bit of a diastema now, but it's hardly noticeable.
- [05:30]
A
And what's a diastema?
- [05:32]
B
Like a gap between your two front teeth?
- [05:33]
A
Oh, I would never. I don't even see it.
- [05:35]
B
It's super light. So, like, sometimes I feel like I have a little pepper stuck in there or something, you know, like, it's minimal. But for the first time in my life, I can breathe through my nose. So I actually had surgery on my nose 10 years ago and it relapsed where they tried to fix a deviated septum and reduce my turbinates. But we never addressed the fact that I am a mouth breather, and we didn't really address structurally what's going on. So that's really common. You see, people have these nose surgeries, sinus surgeries and stuff that relapse because we have to get to the root cause of, like, proper tongue posture and lip seal and nasal breathing.
- [06:10]
A
Okay, so let's dive into that.
- [06:12]
B
Yeah.
- [06:12]
A
Because I'm very focused on. On this right now because I'm getting married in June. I've talked a lot about on the podcast. I'm hoping to be pregnant by the end of the year. And so I wanna know, going into this, when we have kids, what we can do in order to help develop their full palate and get them to be nose breathers. So I wanna talk about all of this, the mouth taping, all that. So. And then I also wanna address too. So, like, someone like myself who is already very formed, like, is there things that we can do? So let's talk about first. So you have. You've been quoted saying that 98.5% of kids aren't developing properly. How is that possible? What's happening with that?
- [06:49]
B
This is crazy, because I have had my practice open for a year and a half now, and I've seen two kids, actually, their mom was, like, a functional nutritionist who had an adequately developed airway. Two. Only two?
- [07:00]
A
That's crazy.
- [07:01]
B
Yeah. Because basically the biggest thing is epigenetic changes since baby formula came out. So, like, my grandmother and my mom both didn't breastfeed. My teeth were super crooked. Um, when we nurse, we have to, like, pull our mandible forward to latch. So that helps with the mandibular growth. And it's very physical to get the milk out. So it develops the muscles, which develops the skeleton.
- [07:23]
A
Yeah.
- [07:23]
B
And when you nurse, you have to breathe through your nose. So it's like this perfect plan that the universe, or God, whatever you want to call it, designed to help children's airways and faces develop.
- [07:34]
A
Yeah.
- [07:35]
B
So basically, when baby formula came out, we saw, like, massive changes start to happen. And now we're. With each generation, it's gotten worse and worse. And now we're like seven, eight generations in, and we have 98.5% of kids with a malocclusion, which means every single kid, you know, gets braces. And every single kid, you know, gets their wisdom teeth out. Yeah. Because they don't have enough room for their teeth. So their teeth are crowded and they don't have enough room for their wisdom teeth. So we pull them out. And everybody acts like, oh, that's just normal. That's what everyone does. But if our jaws were developing the way that they were meant to, then we would have a good airway, we'd have room for all our teeth and. And we would be breathing better.
- [08:13]
A
Fascinating. So what should be happening is we should be breathing through our noses. Right. And then it helps form the jaw to come all the way out. And what's so cool about this is that it actually gives you a more amazing profile because your jaw is fully formed. Right. And then because of that, we, Our teeth would fully form and then we wouldn't actually have to get our wisdom teeth out.
- [08:33]
B
Yeah. Which would be like one less surgery. And there's a lot of consequences that can happen with wisdom teeth. But. So the other big thing was, is our soft diet, which I feel like 400 years ago, Royal family started getting crowded teeth. And I. I think maybe they were eating like puddings and jellies and everything was soft and cooked for them. But that was like, where we first started seeing, when you look at ancient skulls, teeth that weren't perfectly formed in the face. But now we're at this, like, I mean, you know, the epicenter of, like, nasty foods that give you no nutrition. They just melt in your mouth, like.
- [09:09]
A
And then get stuck to your teeth.
- [09:11]
B
Yeah. Food scientists love to create products that have a crunch but melt so that you eat more and more and more and you never feel satiated.
- [09:17]
A
Yeah.
- [09:18]
B
Like, those baby puffs are like the cigarettes for babies.
- [09:21]
A
I think they're the worst. Okay. No puffs for my babies.
- [09:25]
B
Yeah, they. So when we use our muscles, we develop the skeleton.
- [09:29]
A
Yeah.
- [09:29]
B
So if we're eating soft foods, we get these, like, weak jaws. And so it's really sad because children have, like, our faces are affected, our aesthetics, like, we. Obviously we can't breathe and we can't sleep, but having a facial aesthetics changes is, to me, like, really sad.
- [09:46]
A
I agree. And this blew my mind. I just started learning about this within the last couple of years. And I remember somebody I follow, it might have been Carnivore Aurelius. It was somebody like that. And he posted like, side by side. This is what a mouth breather looks like and this is what a nose breather looks like. And the mouth breather was like. Or sorry, there. Yeah, the mouth breather. The jaw was like, not fully formed. It was like in a little bit. And it was kind of that classic side profile that, let's be real, nobody wants. Right. And then the nose breather it was like fully formed. It was like a, you know, like Hollywood star, like looked like this person went in and got like jaw filler, you know, because it was so perfect.
- [10:23]
B
Yeah.
- [10:24]
A
So what's happening there? What is that like? Why, why is there such a difference in how our jaws form just by how we're breathing?
- [10:31]
B
So the tongue is the architect of the face. And when the tongue is up on the roof of the mouth, it pushes forward and wide to help with jaw development. So we really need the tongue pushing forward to get that beautiful forward growth so we have a nice jawline. And when it pushes forward, you also get cheekbones and lip support and that like duck face that everyone makes for selfies. That's like a fake of forward growth where you get that nice line from the cheekbones forward and no nasio labial fold. That's just what our faces are meant to grow like. So Weston Price studied, you know, all of these basically third world cultures to figure out why are supermodels coming from these foreign countries. And he found that eating organ meats and breastfeeding and having like real food helps develop the face and the jaws and the airway.
- [11:23]
A
Wow.
- [11:24]
B
So we've gotten really far away from that, unfortunately. And that's why every kid needs intervention.
- [11:29]
A
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- [14:06]
B
That's totally why it's funny. Because when I go on Instagram, my algorithm thinks that I want plastic surgery or something and it' all like filler and like, I don't know what, like everything's filler. Like these crazy things that they can do to help the nose. Because the other thing that happens is you'll get like a bent nose when you don't get enough forward growth. Because the nose kind of like bends down to meet the lack of mid face development.
- [14:28]
A
Yeah.
- [14:28]
B
So people doing all kinds of filler to fix all of these things. And I'm just like, my God, this is all like if you had. Well, if you saw an airway dentist when you were like three. But if we had changed your diet and got you breastfeeding, if it's possible. There's so like, people think like, oh, I just have bad genetics, like I got my dad's ugly face or something. That's not the problem. The problem is totally what we're eating and.
- [14:53]
A
And the way we're breathing. And the way we're breathing, especially specifically, let's be clear, while we're sleeping at night, Right. Is that really what makes a difference?
- [15:00]
B
Well, ideally, you have your tongue on the roof of your mouth all the time. Unless you're talking or eating. We should be breathing through our nose all day. So I tell patients that, like, if you're not breathing through your nose for, let's say eight hours a night, that's third of your life. It's like a pond that doesn't have good water flowing through it. It'll become stagnant and drippy and congested and gross and you won't be able to breathe through it. So really important to breathe through it all the time. And when you're not breathing through it, then your tongue can't be on the roof of your mouth and it can't do this. Its orthodontic job.
- [15:33]
A
That's so. That's so fascinating. So let's say, I mean, let's use me as an example. I would love to have a better formed jaw and just have everything have moved out a little bit. Is it too late for me or there's things that I can do.
- [15:44]
B
It's definitely not too late. I think you have a beautiful jawline, but thank you. If you wanted.
- [15:49]
A
The grass is always greener. You know, we always know we can't what we think we don't have.
- [15:53]
B
That vivos appliance that I'm using would probably be a really good option for you because you could continue to do your podcasts and live your life normally and still get some nice expansion. So it's going to remodel the palette. As it does that, we naturally get some forward growth too. And it like pulls the soft palate up because the soft palate's kind of like the curtains at the back of your throat. So as we widen, it gets that up and out of the way, which is going to help with the snoring and just help you breathe better. It'll give you like a nice wide smile. So you'll have teeth from corner to corner.
- [16:22]
A
Yes.
- [16:23]
B
And give you more room for your tongue. So if you think of your mouth as like the garage for your tongue, if it's not big enough because it's kind of narrow, which is almost everyone. Then your tongue's going to hang out the back of the garage and close off the airway a little bit. Because the airway is this tube that goes from behind your soft palate and behind the tongue down into your lungs. And it should be like a garden hose. But if your tongue space is small, then it can become quite narrow and that leads to airway collapse. Especially like as we get older. Like 1 in 4 women develop sleep apnea when they go through menopause because our sift tissues get more soft and collapsible.
- [17:00]
A
Wow.
- [17:01]
B
So it's like a progressive disease and really would be brilliant for you to do a little expansion and some myofunctional therapy. You could use that straw I brought you. Get your tongue nice and strong.
- [17:11]
A
Oh yeah, I want to talk about that. I want to ask about the axis before I forget and then I want to ask you about that straw. So what is it exactly? Like is it. It's a little like the contraption that you put at the roof of your.
- [17:21]
B
Mouth on the vivos appliance?
- [17:23]
A
Yes.
- [17:23]
B
Yeah. So I should, I could show you mine. It's kind of like the retainers that we had back in the day that have acrylic on the top and they snap onto the teeth on the side. So you can kind of see when it's in, there's like a little metal showing. But then in the center of the acrylic is a key that you can turn to widen and then a second key that pushes the premaxilla forward. So it basically like we think what it does is stimulates some cells to lay down more bone.
- [17:53]
A
Wow, that's so fascinating. And I'm assuming I'd probably have to go see a specialist, right. To help me like turn the key and all that.
- [17:58]
B
Yeah. There are very few of us that know how to use that device properly.
- [18:03]
A
Really?
- [18:03]
B
Yeah. So sometimes it gets a bad rap because the. Sometimes people that don't know how to use it, you know, don't get good results. But yeah, I've seen life changing results. And I have a friend that actually I'm staying with here in Denver. I started him on it a week ago and he won't take it out. Like he was like talking in a lisp the whole time we were there. I was like, you are so cute. He's like, no, my TMJ feels better, my head feels better. This pain that I've been dealing with is gone. He's Like, I don't want to take it out. I'm just. I don't care. You guys can listen to me lisp that.
- [18:31]
A
Okay, so that's interesting, because I was going to ask you about. Because I know a lot of people struggle with grinding their teeth. I clench at night. Tmj. I have a bunch of friends that have tmj. Would this be something that might help them with that?
- [18:44]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. Usually TMJ is almost always airway. So we kind of, like, tense the jaw as a compensation pattern to help get oxygen in our bodies. Know that these soft, collapsible tissues, when we tighten them up, we can get a little oxygen in. And you can see videos where people are, like, sedated and they have a camera, and when they grind their teeth, a little. Like, a little airway opens.
- [19:06]
A
So. Wow.
- [19:07]
B
Yeah. And what also happens is because if our maxilla, the upper arch, doesn't grow enough, it will trap the mandible, which is the lower arch. And so when I take a CT scan, I see all the time the TMJ is kind of trapped back, and that just creates all kinds of tension. And then those same patients that are trapped back also are trying to compensate for their airways, so they carry a lot of tension in their jaws. So as soon as we expand, we make room for the mandible to go to its happy place. Like, TMJ issues magically melt away, which is so weird because I spent my whole career freaking out about how difficult it was to treat the tmj. It's like this, like, holy grail in dentistry, like, how to figure out how to help someone with TMJ issues, and then you put them in a vivos appliance and start expansion, and they're like, oh, it's better. Like, almost always. It's crazy.
- [19:56]
A
I mean, I'm about to get out of this podcast and text all my friends that have tmj. I'm like, you need to get this device.
- [20:01]
B
You should. I feel like. Like, if they're clenching and grinding, first of all, I've gotten to a point now where if somebody's clenching and grinding, I'm like, I'm sending you home with a sleep study.
- [20:09]
A
Yeah.
- [20:10]
B
Whereas I used to be, like, $800 night guard, and then that's what they did with me. They're slowly dying in their sleep. It's wrong. We need to change that. We need to be sleep testing people if they're clenching and grinding.
- [20:21]
A
100%. I honestly was shocked that somebody just now recommended I get a sleep Study done this year because I have been complaining about tension in my jaw, clenching my teeth. Every time I go to the dentist, they're like, oh, my God, you're clenching so much. I've had to get on a mountain. Like, nobody has ever said to me, we want to test your sleep. Until this year. Which is.
- [20:41]
B
Glad that somebody. Was it a dentist that recommended sleep?
- [20:43]
A
No, it was my functional doctor. Okay.
- [20:45]
B
I was going to say, very few dentists know about airway. We were taught nothing about airway, tongues, toxins, nutrition. In dental school. Like, none. Nothing. Not a word was uttered. And so it's very bizarre. People think I'm like, a quack.
- [21:03]
A
I mean, welcome to the club. Everyone thought I was a quack forever, so it's fine.
- [21:07]
B
I know I'm sort of over it. I'm like, this is just what we have to do in order to take better care of people. Yeah.
- [21:13]
A
I mean, and that's the thing is, like, you're not a quack. You're just early to this. I mean, and I hope in the next 20 years or so, we're going to really start recognizing this as being a huge issue. I know at least a lot. The conversations are starting to be had slowly in my friend group, which I think is a good sign, because everybody's starting to have kids. Everybody's worried about, you know, the. The formation of the jaw. They're worried about if their kid is mouth breathing. Like, it's starting to become a conversation. So you're just early.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah, I agree. I think this is an emerging field, and eventually people will start to catch on. And that. That's, like, my big goal is to just awaken the mothers, because I think those. That's where this change is gonna come from. Like, as moms are like, I need to help this kid, I. I feel in my heart that something's wrong. They shouldn't be wetting the bed this late. They shouldn't be waking up this many times a night. They shouldn't be grinding their teeth. And then they start to put the pieces together and find help. And as they demand more of that kind of care for their kids, the dentistry will start to catch on and medicine will start to catch on, and we can hopefully really change what we're doing wrong. Because we're doing a lot wrong right now.
- [22:16]
A
Yeah, it seems like it in all areas. Right. It's so interesting. I feel like we're kind of in this, like, not even kind of. I feel like we're in this, like, awakening time right now. And so so much about what we have done in the past as humans and as a society I feel like is slowly being uncovered and we're realizing like, oh, we actually had this wrong. Yeah, I'm seeing it in the food, I'm seeing it with the dentistry. Like I'm, we're seeing it in the medical system. We're kind of in this wild place right now where we're realizing that we've been doing a lot of things wrong and it's harming us and we need to like steer the course in a different direction.
- [22:47]
B
Yeah, I think we need to be willing to admit that we were doing it wrong. Like I shouldn't have been making night guard and not sleep testing people. I shouldn't have been doing IPR when we did Invisalign where it's like you thin the teeth and then kind of pull them back to fit in. That was making mouth smaller. There's a lot of stuff that we, we do wrong all day every day and we have to be willing to admit it so that we can start to move forward and do better.
- [23:10]
A
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- [26:10]
B
Yeah, but at least they pulled you forward and didn't retract because sometimes what they would do is pull teeth and then pull the maxilla back to like meet the bottom arch. And that is a disaster.
- [26:19]
A
And maybe they did. I was so young, I don't know which direction they were pulling it, but I think I remember they were pulling it forward. I think I feel like with your.
- [26:27]
B
Jawline they must have pulled you forward.
- [26:28]
A
I think so. I hope so.
- [26:29]
B
Yeah, but like there's two pieces we need to pull forward and we need to go wider.
- [26:36]
A
Yes.
- [26:37]
B
So some people I see have really beautiful forward growth, but they're narrow and so their tongue is still pushing back into their airway.
- [26:43]
A
And then you get those little like bumps on the side of Your teeth, like not bumps, but like I get it sometimes and I've noticed if I'm really like anxious and I think it's because when I'm grinding my teeth is my teeth are kind of like biting the side of my tongue a little bit and that makes me think that my whole.
- [26:57]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:58]
A
What do you call that is like too thin?
- [27:00]
B
Yeah, it's called a scalloped tongue. When you have indentations from your teeth on the tongue and it's just a sign that your tongue is fighting for more room.
- [27:07]
A
Wow. So. And isn't there a thing make more.
- [27:09]
B
Room and like get the tongue happy in there? So it's not. That's a big red flag that it's. That's going to be in your airway.
- [27:16]
A
Wow. And isn't there a thing too that sometimes they say, and maybe this is what's happening with TMJ too, but if your teeth are not in the way that like you were. You were meant to be, that they're constantly fighting to get back there. And so maybe that you're like grinding or you're.
- [27:31]
B
Yeah. Clenching a lot. Where like the way that your teeth fit together and the way that your jaw is seated properly are two different things. And the jaw will kind of like fight to get that spot. So a lot of times in men I feel like they just grind the tooth out of the way. And women can do that too, but. Or women sort of like have this chronic tension where the muscles are always working to try and get it into the right spot.
- [27:53]
A
I think mine are doing that.
- [27:54]
B
Yeah, that's that trapped thing that I was talking about. So as we expand and make room for the jaw, then we can like get it to a happy place and then we use clear aligners to make it look pretty in that spot.
- [28:05]
A
Yeah. Wow. Okay. So let's say that somebody listening is dealing with similar issues and they want to know how to fix this. Obviously they need to find what. What type of specialist would they look for? Biological dentist.
- [28:18]
B
Well, biological dentists are usually awakened to airway, but airway dentists are basically docs that have decided to go full on airway all the time. We are hard to find. Like I don't think there's one in every state. Even people travel from all over to come see me and so go see her. That'd be fine. That'd be lovely. There's. But there's a handful of us that are doing this and kind of leading the charge and I feel like it's worth traveling for because Like I said, you have to have experience with that vivos appliance, for example, and you have to. If you're going to be doing clear aligners, you have to know that you can actually expand to this sizes and what numbers to get to and how much room the tongue needs. You need to know how to look at a CT scan. How much room do we want behind the soft palate? How much room do you want behind the tongue? And. And trust that you've had enough experience to like, build. Because a lot of dentists are afraid to expand too far. They think they're going to move the teeth right out of the bone, which is not true. It's. I don't know why. That's like a myth that's been told to us. So if you don't find the right doctor, you're not going to get results. And then it'll seem like you were on the wrong path when really you just didn't get all the way there.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah, interesting. Okay. And then so there's the Axios thing. That helps too. And then the straw. So you mentioned the straw. You brought me this little gift. Thank you so much. It's very sweet. So what is that? Let's tell my audience a little bit about that.
- [29:41]
B
That straw is kind of like a myofunctional therapy device. It's like a trainer tool to help strengthen your tongue. So when you use it, you can tell it takes some effort to get the water out. And so it helps get the tongue nice and strong. And having a strong tongue is one of the big pieces to airway. So even if I do all this work to make your mouth big and beautiful and wide and get you lots of tongue space, if your tongue isn't strong enough to stay up and in your palate, then it can still fall back in the airway. Like, I've seen people with giant airways that have severe sleep apnea because their tongue posture is poor. And whatever we do orthodontically will relapse if your tongue isn't strong.
- [30:23]
A
Interesting.
- [30:24]
B
So myofunctional therapy is the gold standard, which is like rewiring the brain to keep the tongue in the roof of the mouth and getting the tongue and the lips nice and strong to actually have that good posture. But that straw is like a good hack for. Because my functional therapy is like a year of work. It's totally worth it. I think everybody that does orthodontics should do it, otherwise they're gonna do the Invisalign three times when they're older.
- [30:46]
A
Yeah.
- [30:47]
B
Which you hear all your friends are like, I'm doing Invisalign again. And it's because their posture, tongue posture, wasn't there.
- [30:52]
A
Wait, that's me. I had braces as a kid, and then I had to go back and get Invisalign again. And then now I'm feeling like. I just feel like I'm constantly chasing my teeth that are, like, moving. Like, I try to wear my retainer almost every night, and I wear a mouth guard, but, yeah. It's like my teeth just don't want to stay.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah. That's why if we had really good tongue posture, the tongue and the lips play this little game where they hold the teeth in the right spot.
- [31:15]
A
Wow.
- [31:16]
B
So we're missing the boat that we're. We can do expansion and line up the teeth with braces, but if we don't do myofunctional therapy and there's still mouth breathing, everything's gonna fall apart.
- [31:26]
A
Yeah. So what would. What is the solution to that? Is that just everything we've been talking about is, like, move my palate out. Nose breathing is another one. So I've started mouth taping every night, which actually, it is. Is wild. How much of a difference that's helped me.
- [31:40]
B
Yeah.
- [31:41]
A
How much of a difference it's made?
- [31:43]
B
So that is like a workaround from having good tongue posture, because it forces you to keep your lips closed, and then your tongue can stay up in the roof of your mouth and out of your airway. So you're breathing through your nose all night, and that tube stays nice and open, and so you're not going to have that fragmentation in your sleep if your tongue is up and out of the way.
- [32:00]
A
Yeah.
- [32:01]
B
So some people that can't. Mouth tape, it's not safe. Like, if you're overweight, then the. Actually, the weight can prevent you from taking nice, deep breaths. So I don't like to recommend it to everyone, but I feel like it's a really good tool to find out. Can you breathe through your nose all night, or did you need to rip the tape off in the middle of the night? And if you can, then we change our treatment plan a little bit.
- [32:23]
A
Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, what's interesting is I told you this before. We were recording that I've had some nights I've woken up, actually, this morning, I woke up with it fully on my mouth, but I've woken up mornings where, like, I had it wrapped around my fingers one time, which was so weird. I was like, how did that even happen? And then I've had other times where I vaguely remember just going like, ripping it off and throwing it.
- [32:40]
B
Yeah.
- [32:41]
A
And. Yeah.
- [32:42]
B
So that tells me that you should do vivos because you'll get like, that'll change for you.
- [32:48]
A
Okay, well, you know what else helped? I did a. I've been doing these nasal strips. Poor Hector. I mean, I'm basically going to bed now with like, like I've like face tape on to like keep the boat or the. So I don't have to do the Botox and like help with the wrinkles. And then now I have a nose strip, and now I'm taping my mouth. And I basically just go to bed every night and be like, oh, I love you. Just like one. I can totally relate.
- [33:11]
B
I'm the same. I'm like, sorry. Next thing you know, we're gonna have that silk bed hair mask on and.
- [33:17]
A
Like, look really like an old lady, but just insanity.
- [33:20]
B
The nasal dilators are awesome. So if you pull your cheeks away from your nose like that and you can breathe better, that's a sign that you can benefit from a nasal dilator. And a lot of people like that intake one with the magnets.
- [33:31]
A
Yes, that's what I've been doing.
- [33:33]
B
Yeah, it's a good one. And it can be a game changer. Some people that come see me, that's really all they need is a nasal dilator and some mouth tape. And it's kind of like not a cure. It's sort of like a hack. But I've seen people's sleep studies go from mild sleep apnea to nothing once we just.
- [33:51]
A
Wow.
- [33:52]
B
Yeah. Get their nose open and tape their mouth.
- [33:55]
A
So let's talk about. Because I'm sure there's a lot of mamas listening right now or moms to be. And that's. I'm also hoping to do that as well. How can we prevent this and how can we help? Our kiddos have well formed jaws from the get go.
- [34:10]
B
So one of the big things to think about when you're thinking about getting pregnant is folic acid versus folate supplementation. We have this theory that folic acid, because it's synthetic and we take folate to close the midline, but folic acid I think is over closing the midline and creating tongue tied line. Like so we want to prevent like a cleft lip or a cleft palate. Right. So we take folate to make sure that the midlines close when the babies are growing, developing. But if they over close due to folic acid, which is this theory that's out and kind of well received right now. Then you can get a tight fascia under the tongue, and it's called a tongue tie.
- [34:50]
A
Yeah.
- [34:50]
B
And then the tongue can't do its job because it can't get up on the roof of the mouth. So tongue ties create a lot of trouble nursing. And then with facial and jaw development so important to note, folic acid is like a. In a ton of processed foods.
- [35:07]
A
I think full. I'm starting to think folic acid is kind of a poison to us.
- [35:11]
B
I think so, too. They're finding that it's, like, really bad and. Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:16]
A
And they're spraying it on grains. It's basically in every processed food. It's our ultra processed food. It's a synthetic form of folate that we're adding to the food supply because they were concerned about, like, a lack of folate for the birth deficiencies and all that, but birth defects.
- [35:31]
B
But I think it's causing a lot of problems.
- [35:34]
A
Yeah.
- [35:36]
B
And so. And then looking at the tongue. Looking at the tongue when the baby's born is really important. This can be really hard because there's so few people. I feel like it's a lost art, understanding tongue ties. A lot of hospitals won't even allow you to utter the word tongue tie.
- [35:51]
A
And so weird.
- [35:52]
B
I know. I don't understand that. I need to dive into that more and figure out why. But I see moms all the time who said, oh, they said, I didn't. That the baby didn't have a tongue tie. And I'm like, they totally have a tongue tie.
- [36:03]
A
Wow.
- [36:03]
B
No wonder you're having trouble nursing. And so sad because it's so hard when you first become a mom to learn how to breastfeed and deal with all of that. And then baby can't drink milk, and you're worried about them, their safety and them thriving. And then so they. Back in the day, midwives used to keep one fingernail long so they could just cut it right at birth.
- [36:28]
A
Wow.
- [36:28]
B
But that is, like, completely lost art.
- [36:31]
A
That's kind of cool.
- [36:32]
B
That's cool.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah. It's crazy that they could get through that with a nail, too.
- [36:36]
B
I know. I'm like, that must have been a tight nail. But yeah, I'm glad I don't have to do those. That would be really hard for me to just grab a baby. But I mean, so after they get that released, then the exercise of nursing helps stretch and they heal nicely. So that's one really important thing to look at. And then I Always like to encourage moms to close the baby's lips. So I hear they do this in France. I don't know if that's true, but just close their lips and encourage them to breathe through their nose. And you can kind of check is the tongue, is it suction to the roof of the mouth? If it is, then. Then you. You've created a nice seal and they're going to stay closed.
- [37:13]
A
So it should be at the top.
- [37:14]
B
It should be like suction to the palate.
- [37:16]
A
Okay.
- [37:17]
B
And if it is, then it's going to help them grow nicely and then airway. Dentists like to have recommend breastfeeding three and a half years, which is a really long time. And if once you start to introduce food, you have to be careful because then they become more at risk for cavities. But that's a big deal. Is nursing and then chewing hard foods really important? Because we've gotten to this point where we think everything has to be pureed for babies, and that's not the way ancient humans fed their babies.
- [37:47]
A
So well, back then, they didn't have blenders. They didn't really have any way to puree.
- [37:51]
B
Yeah. They can gnaw on like a piece of steak. They won't get it back. Bite too big because they don't have enough teeth.
- [37:56]
A
Yeah.
- [37:57]
B
And so letting them really chew on something is important for jaw development. And then I like a western price diet, like organ meats and raw milk. And real foods.
- [38:09]
A
Yes.
- [38:09]
B
To help, because we know that you're going to grow more symmetrical, more beautiful face, which means you have a beautiful airway, which means you're going to breathe better, you're going to live longer if you eat real foods.
- [38:21]
A
Well, and a lot of the work that Weston A. Price did was around teeth and jaws. Right. Which is really fascinating. And then what's interesting is that then he. He found the connection between what we're eating and how our jaws form and how our teeth form. And his work was really cool. I think my. Most of my audience is probably pretty aware of him because I had Sally Fallon on.
- [38:40]
B
Yeah, I saw that.
- [38:41]
A
Yeah. She's amazing.
- [38:42]
B
She's amazing. Yeah, we love. There's a Weston A. Price foundation in Bozeman that has farmers markets once in a while, and they're. They are all over the country. It's a really good way to learn how to eat real food.
- [38:53]
A
Yeah.
- [38:54]
B
But, yeah, he was a dentist. It's funny because he. We knew all this stuff back in the 1930s and then it's been forgotten. It's like we turned into this industrial kind of system where we do braces, we pull wisdom teeth, we do do fillings, and we forgot all of that knowledge.
- [39:09]
A
Yeah. Is there a world in which if you're really good about your kids diet and you're aware of if they're mouth breathing versus nose. No nose breathing, that you could completely avoid getting braces or any sort of intervention for that for them?
- [39:24]
B
Yeah. Like those two girls, they won't need braces.
- [39:28]
A
That is so cool.
- [39:29]
B
Yeah. And a lot of the kids, like, if we intervene early, like my tooth pillow. Kids at age 3, we don't need to do braces. We make enough room. We get the teeth nice and lined up. The tooth pillow helps correct any bite issues.
- [39:41]
A
What's a tooth pillow?
- [39:41]
B
Tooth pillow is a little mouth guard that's a habit training device for nasal breathing. But it also gets the tongue on the roof of the mouth. We're gonna do its job as the architect of the face, and it helps with gentle expansion. So as if we use it on an older kid, it's more of a habit trainer on a. On a littler kid. We can actually, like, develop the jaws with it.
- [40:00]
A
And how early can you start that?
- [40:02]
B
Age three.
- [40:03]
A
Wow.
- [40:04]
B
So if you do tooth pillow and a myofunctional therapy, I like, there's a very good chance you won't need your wisdom teeth out and you won't need to do orthodontics.
- [40:12]
A
This is so cool.
- [40:13]
B
Yeah.
- [40:14]
A
I wish my parents knew this.
- [40:15]
B
I know. Me too.
- [40:16]
A
Would have saved me so many years of painful braces. I had braces for three years, and it was awful.
- [40:22]
B
Yeah.
- [40:23]
A
Every time they'd go in and, like, tighten the bands. Oh, God.
- [40:27]
B
Same. I had expanders and binators and braces, and I lost about 5,000 retainers. That's again, my parents were like, we're.
- [40:36]
A
Gonna kill you so much money.
- [40:39]
B
And I still ended up with too small of a mouth, which is really common. I see that every day, all day long.
- [40:45]
A
Well, it's because we didn't. Our parents generation didn't know what. What we're talking about in this whole episode.
- [40:50]
B
No, they did their best, of course.
- [40:52]
A
Yeah, exactly. They did their best with what they.
- [40:54]
B
Yeah.
- [40:55]
A
What they knew. Okay. This is so fascinating. I'm trying to think, oh, you brought me another little. Is that the tooth pillow that you brought me, or is this toothpaste?
- [41:04]
B
No, I brought you a myo tooth. So that is like a chew toy for babies. I would say that's for under three. It has little bristles on it. So it helps clean their teeth. Teeth. But it's basically like a workaround for chewing hard food. So it helps them develop their jaws when they chew on that device.
- [41:19]
A
Okay.
- [41:19]
B
Yeah.
- [41:20]
A
Cool.
- [41:20]
B
You got some time. But I figured there's. There's gonna be a baby someday that needs that jaw development.
- [41:26]
A
Well, now, like, poor Hector. There's so many things that I just feel like I'm gonna be like, okay, we have to worry about their. Their jaw formation, and they're getting their healthy foods. And, like, there's just so many things, but, like, not in a bad way. There's just a lot that we have to, like, pay attention to, to, like.
- [41:41]
B
You have to walk this line. So I have three kids, and I. I can kind of obsess over things, and some of the. One of my kids kind of likes to, like, he's a little ocd, and he's like, but that has food to high. So you have to, like, you know, try and walk this balance line of being like, I'm gonna teach you everything. And it's really fun, actually, because now they know everything.
- [42:02]
A
Yeah.
- [42:02]
B
Like, my daughter could be an airway dentist. I swear, she's like, mom, look at that. Like that. But, you know, she notices all the details.
- [42:08]
A
That's cool.
- [42:08]
B
But, you know, you don't. You have to also, like, give them room to live in this toxic world and not be afraid of everything.
- [42:14]
A
Exactly. For sure. I mean, that's how I live my life. I think my audience. Well, if they listen to my podcast, they know that I'm super balanced. I think if people just find me on Instagram, they think I'm a psycho and I live in a bubble.
- [42:26]
B
Yeah. You don't come off like a psycho.
- [42:27]
A
To me at all. Okay, good. Thank you.
- [42:29]
B
Yeah.
- [42:29]
A
But I have. I've had some people be like, wow, you seem really fun. And I'm like, you know nothing about my life. I actually have a very, very balanced approach to everything. I just like, you know, it's like, when you know better, you do better, and you try your best, and then obviously, like, we're not gonna be able to control everything. We can't live in a bubble.
- [42:44]
B
I know. I think people just get triggered because maybe they feel shame or.
- [42:48]
A
Yeah.
- [42:49]
B
They don't start or I don't. I don't know.
- [42:52]
A
Which is so sad to me. I wish, like, there. There's such a beauty in just having a curious, open mind and being like, oh, wow, this is so cool. I didn't know this. I'd love to Learn more instead of. Yeah, I think what's happening is. I think a lot of people feel guilt, and then instead of just allowing themselves to feel that guilt and, like, give them compassion and kindness that they didn't know better at the time, then they lash out at the messenger and say that that person's a bad person for pointing it out.
- [43:16]
B
Yeah, that mom guilt can be really painful. I've had. Had a mom come in and she's like, my daughter had to drop out of school. She's. She can't just take a nap every afternoon, and she can't do her sports anymore, and her energy's really low, and her sleep is bad. And we sleep tested her, and I'm like, yeah, she's got apnea. And they had just finished orthodontics. And I was like, well, we have to redo it. And she was like, you just want my money? And she got all mad. I was like, I don't know what to tell you. I know you just spent all this money. I know it's really painful. I know that this kid is suffering. But we have to start with just acknowledging that you did your best and you went to who you thought was the best orthodontist in town. You know, it's not your fault or the cavities thing, because mouth breathers get a lot of cavities, typically. And these moms are like, I have fed them a perfect diet. This kid has never had sugar. All they've ever had is breast milk and food, and they're full of cavities. And I'm like, yeah, but their mouth breathing at night, so their mouth's drying out, and the bacteria are going to town.
- [44:19]
A
Yeah.
- [44:19]
B
And so that creates a lot of shame and guilt, and I just think we all have to let it go. My kids get cavities. It's okay.
- [44:26]
A
Yeah. I mean, I feel like, yeah, you can't do everything perfect. Right. And kiddos are gonna get cavities no matter how perfect you are. I feel like sometimes. Because that's just how life works.
- [44:36]
B
Yeah.
- [44:37]
A
But let's talk about that. Actually, that was something I was gonna ask you. So if you're breathing through your nose properly, then the chances of you getting cavities, obviously, if you're brushing your teeth too, and, like, not eating things like goldfish all the time and letting it, like, stick in your teeth, there's a lower. That one always blows people's minds. They're like, wait, goldfish?
- [44:54]
B
Yeah, they're so nasty. You can feel it get stuck in there.
- [44:57]
A
Yes.
- [44:58]
B
Right. And it's just carbs. Like simple carbs.
- [45:01]
A
Exactly. Super. It turns into sugar and then it just sits on your teeth. It's super hard to get out of your teeth. Of course it's going to cause cavities.
- [45:06]
B
It becomes an acid in your mouth.
- [45:08]
A
Yeah. So what is the. So if, if a kiddo is breathing through their nose properly, then the chances of them getting cavities is going to go lower too, right?
- [45:17]
B
Yeah. Because then they have saliva neutralizing their mouth all day. So when we mouth breathe, our mouths dry out a lot. So that's the other reason why brushing before bed is like the most important time to brush. Because that's when our mouths are most likely to be not bathed in enough neutralizing saliva. And our teeth are constantly remineralizing and demineralizing and saliva is the cure for that. So if we don't have saliva on our teeth, then we are at a much higher risk for decay.
- [45:44]
A
Wow, I've never heard that about the saliva. That's really interesting. So let's say that a parent is doing everything they can. They're feeding them really well, they're checking in on their tongue and their teeth development, everything. And they're still feeling like the kiddo is like maybe mouth breathing some. Can you face or can you mouth tape kids at night?
- [46:02]
B
Yeah. Okay, you can again, like, because there have been some, there have been some adults that died from mouth taping that there was like a lawsuit from. And I think you can't buy mouth tape on Amazon anymore because of it.
- [46:15]
A
Really.
- [46:16]
B
So all of us have sort of tried to dial back the mouth tape talk, but you can't. In fact, like I. My 12 year old puts mouth tape on over his tooth pillow just to help him keep his lips closed.
- [46:27]
A
Wow.
- [46:28]
B
So it's just a personal choice, I would say. And you know, if you have an otherwise healthy kid that's not overweight and they can breathe through their nose, if they're struggling to breathe through their nose, don't force it with mouth tape.
- [46:40]
A
Oh God. Yeah.
- [46:41]
B
When we have to open the nose, we gotta do palatal expanders or toothpillow or something to help open the nose.
- [46:46]
A
Wow, that's so interesting because I kind of have this like fear like I've read online. Oh well, just, you know, encourage your kid to mouth tape when they're younger. And I have this fear about that. Cuz for me I'm like, okay, I'm an adult. I know, I know if I'm not exactly. And I know if I'm not, like, breathing correctly through my nose. Like, I got really sick a couple months ago and had all this sinus stuff for like a month, and I was not doing it then because I could barely breathe.
- [47:07]
B
Yeah, you can't.
- [47:08]
A
Yeah, it's like with a kid, you know, like, you don't want to force those things that they can't effectively communicate to you.
- [47:15]
B
Yeah. And they'd. They'd wake up and pull it off too, most likely. But. But, you know, I would say a tooth pillow is safer. They're gonna spit that out. Toothpillow forces them to breathe through their nose. They can kind of cheat around it if they, like, open their mouth enough. But it's a way safer way to ensure they're getting a nasal breathing habit. And it also is pushing the tongue up. It's kind of like, you know, three for one. It's better than mouth tape, in my opinion.
- [47:41]
A
What are some of the signs and symptoms that your kid's airway path? The airway pathways are not forming correctly.
- [47:50]
B
So dark circles under the eyes is a big one. When we mouth breathe, we get this vasodilation. If they don't. If you look at their profile and their maxilla and their mandible aren't out in front of their forehead, then they don't have enough forward growth, typically. So if their chin is short, you know, the jawline, if they are wetting the bed late, if they're grinding their teeth, if their baby teeth are touching at all, we need 2 to 3 millimeters of spacing in between all baby teeth to have enough room. And almost no kid has that. Like, I spent a couple hours on the Internet the other day looking for a photo of a kid with teeth that had it, and I couldn't even find that because every.
- [48:27]
A
Wow.
- [48:28]
B
And a lot of baby teeth are touching. They look perfect. But that means there's no room and the permanent teeth are gonna be really crowded.
- [48:34]
A
Oh, wow.
- [48:34]
B
So that's a big one. If their palate is vaulted and high instead of flat and wide, which is almost every kid you see, if their mouth breathing at all, if you can hear them breathing in their sleep, if they're not silently breathing through their nose at night, then you have a problem.
- [48:46]
A
Okay.
- [48:47]
B
You need to address it. Right. What else? There's like a hyperactivity type behavior. That's why Adderall works, because these kids are, like, overtired. You give them a stimulant, they're going to get through their day.
- [48:58]
A
Yeah.
- [48:58]
B
So if you're seeing 80 ADHD type symptoms. Definitely get them sleep tested before you start medications. If, if they have trouble, like if they're picky eaters or if they ever had a diagnosis of a tongue tie. All of those things kind of fall into the same category of jaw development and poor sleep.
- [49:20]
A
Interesting. Okay, and then would you say the first or I guess like when you could start doing interventions would be three, because you could do that tooth pillow thing you're talking about.
- [49:29]
B
Yeah. Before age 3, it's more like focus, focusing on the other stuff that we talked about. But at age 3, we can start myofunctional therapy or there's a mini myo program that we have in my office and like a tooth pillow appliance. And Toothpillow is a brand that I love and I'm one of their docs. But there's they, there's different brands of those guides that you can use. You don't have to use that brand. And I just really like, I think that company is doing a really good job. But yeah, we can get a kid in a tooth pill at age three and then at age four, if their sleep is really affected, I can put fixed expanders in. So I have this cute little four year old who sucked her thumb had a, her teeth were like, you know, grown around her thumb. Oh yeah. She was like super tucked in and narrow from it. Her sleep was terrible. And we put a fixed expander and it started to widen her and her nasal breathing was like instantly better. Her sleep starting at any better? My, actually my six year old, I did that. And because he's like the one patient that I sleep with all the time so I get to see him intimately. How this changes. He went from like wetting the bed late. He'd kick us all night. And I just thought like, oh, kids are restless sleepers. He stopped kicking us.
- [50:39]
A
Wow.
- [50:39]
B
He stopped making any noise. Like his breathing got silent. And he wasn't really a bad sleeper. Like I thought he was pretty good. He had spacing in between his baby teeth, but he did grind his teeth sometimes. The bed waiting stopped, the kicking stopped. Like the noisy breathing stopped. Everything got way better. It was amazing. And then he got a stuffy nose and all the symptoms came back. It was like so obvious that we just had to get his nose working.
- [51:03]
A
Wow. Is there. You had said something earlier about the deviated septum also is a symptom of not everything growing in, in place. So do you think that we'll also see deviated septums going down too? As we address all this other stuff. Yeah, for sure. Wow, this is so fascinating.
- [51:20]
B
Yeah. It's so interesting to see how all these little things are playing out. Like, there was a study in Brazil that looked at tongue ties, and they found that at age 70, people with a severe tongue tie had severe health issues, people with a moderate tongue tie had moderate health issues and mild, mild health issues. And that's all coming from the tongue tie not leading to proper jaw development, airway development. So I think someday we're going to realize that, like, mouth breathing is the first sign of, like, heart attacks, heart disease, strokes, Parkinson's, dementia, like, all of that. If you're not getting good sleep, then you're going to see all these downstream health effects.
- [52:00]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. This is so fascinating. This is one of those episodes where I'm just thinking, I hope this reaches so many people because this is so important and it's something that people are really not talking about. Like, we are a little bit. And it's interesting how it's coming in, into the conversation with, you know, everybody's mouth taping now, but. But nobody knows really what's happening downstream.
- [52:23]
B
Yeah. The conversation has started, which I love, and I'm so glad that you had me on so that we can spread the word.
- [52:28]
A
Yeah.
- [52:28]
B
But people are, like, not connecting the dots fully yet.
- [52:32]
A
Yeah. So hopefully this helps them connect the dots. Yeah. Well, before we go, is there anything else that we didn't cover that you think is really important for people to hear?
- [52:41]
B
I feel like we covered a lot of the content.
- [52:43]
A
Yeah.
- [52:44]
B
I just want to encourage people, like, it's never too late. I mean, I help 70 year olds rebuild their airways. You don't have to be stuck on a cpap. Go get sleep tested. We need to be doing better for people so that their faces develop beautifully like they were meant to, and that they can sleep and breathe better at night. And this is, like, so foundational to health. You cannot have good health if we don't address this. So I would say find a good airway dentist, get a sleep study done, and. And like, make sure you're getting to the root cause of potential issues that might be affecting your health overall.
- [53:19]
A
Yeah. And don't underestimate how much of a difference this can actually make in your life. I mean, just me doing the mouth taping and the opening of my nasal passageway. My sleep scores have been going through the roof with my aura ring. And I have to be honest, when I first started learning about this stuff, I was thinking, okay, I don't know if that's going to help me that much. And I'm someone who, like, I. I actually struggle a lot with sleep and I am blown away by how much of a difference it's made for me.
- [53:44]
B
Yeah, it's a game changer. I've seen patients go from, like, grumpy, miserable, or depressed and anxious. They can't even barely hold a conversation to, like, completely different human once we get them sleeping.
- [53:56]
A
Wow.
- [53:56]
B
Yeah. Riley and I are always like, oh, my God, we're doing it. Like, you can see major transformations in weeks. People start sleeping.
- [54:05]
A
That is so cool. I have one more question for you because you brought up the sleep apnea, and I was curious about this. If somebody's dealing with pretty severe sleep apnea, if they start addressing this stuff with their jaw, do you think it will help lessen the sleep apnea?
- [54:17]
B
Yeah. I've seen people who have an AHI, which means they stop breathing for 10 seconds or more of like 120. 120 times an hour they stop breathing and get them down to like 20 with Vivos. Or I've seen somebody with 90 get them down to zero. We just have to, like. Sleep apnea is fundamentally a jaw disease. Like, if the jaws are well positioned and wide enough in the face and the tongue is nice and strong, you will not have apnea.
- [54:45]
A
Yeah.
- [54:46]
B
Unless it's like a central. They're very rare neurological, where they don't try to breathe for some reason in their sleep. But I mean, like, 99.99 of a sleep apnea is a jaw development issue. And so we can change that. And. And people are getting cured all the time. They just have to be willing to basically find the right doctor and start down the path. People don't, Like, a lot of people don't want to know that they have sleep apnea because they're afraid they're going to be on a cpap. So.
- [55:17]
A
Which I get. I mean, to be honest, that was my fear too, and my doctor wanted me to test for that. I was like, wait, what do you mean? There's no way. What? No, I don't. What? I don't have sleep apnea.
- [55:24]
B
What do you mean?
- [55:25]
A
I don't want to get on a machine.
- [55:26]
B
Yeah. And then. And then, like, people like you or people like my ironman athletes, like, they're like, that's not. I couldn't have it. Like, it's not a fat old man's disease. Babies have it.
- [55:38]
A
Wow.
- [55:38]
B
All elite athletes have it. And they could be even more of an elite athlete if we get them Sleeping better, so I don't be afraid to dive in. I think it's not as difficult as you would think to treat it.
- [55:49]
A
Yeah. Well, this. This gave me so much hope for that, so thank you so much. Yeah. So, last question, and then I'll. And then we'll have to wrap this up. But I kind of asked this, but I guess I want to get a little bit more clarity on what can people search for specifically so they can look for someone like you? But what is something. If they wanted to see if there's somebody in their area that addresses this, what would they search for? What type of doctor?
- [56:10]
B
I would look for an airway dentist.
- [56:12]
A
Okay.
- [56:13]
B
I would look for a doc, because there's some people that say they're airway, but I. And then I look at their website and I'm like, I don't know. They should be having sleep tests in their office. They should be working with an MD to read those tests. They should be using, like, something like Marpi or Vivos. They should be doing upper and lower fixed expanders on kids. They should have a myofunctional therapist in their office, and they should have basically, like, good relationships with the doctors around them in case they need some to refer to an ENT or something. And they should have a lot of experience because, like I said, this is a new emerging field than we weren't taught anything about in dentistry. So just be careful, because I've seen people zoom with me all the time and they're like, let's try and find someone local. And they'll say they're doing airway. And then I look at their website and I'm like, I don't know. They're not using the brands that I trust or the. They don't look like their sleep studies are doing that. So they have to. They have to get your tongue strong, which means myofunctional therapy. They have to know how to expand the palate, so they have to have experience with that. And there's only a few devices that work for it. So you just have to be careful and do your homework and kind of trust your gut. You can usually tell when you go visit someone.
- [57:26]
A
Yeah.
- [57:26]
B
If they're taking a CT scan and they're looking at the airway and they know what numbers to look for, then that's a really good sign.
- [57:31]
A
Okay, good. Okay, amazing. Well, please tell my audience where they can find you and find your work.
- [57:36]
B
I'm on Instagram @HillaryFrichDMD and the office website is saddlepeakdental.com Amazing.
- [57:42]
A
Hillary. Thank you so much. This was such an amazing episode.
- [57:45]
B
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so glad. Thank you.
- [57:49]
A
Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology Podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. Are you ready to rock middle age? I'm Dr. Tina Moore, Gen X truth Teller and holistic physician on the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple podcast Top Alternative Health shows, I share what actually works for metabolic health, hormones and strength. Backed by decades of clinical results, not trends. From loving the gym and hitting your protein goals to peptides and microdosing GLP1s, it's all done the right way, not the hype way, because menopause doesn't have to suck if you're fit. New episodes every Thursday, produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud.