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- [00:00]
Real Foodology Host
On today's episode of the Real Foodology.
- [00:02]
Lindsay Mihalis
Podcast, we can go into leaky gut, we can go into all the allergens, we can go into the fact that most formula is made up of seed oils and high fructose corn syrup. Like, how is that a good building block and foundation for the entire nutrition basis of your life? That's not.
- [00:19]
Real Foodology Host
Hello friends. Welcome back to another episode of the Real Foodology podcast. On today's episode I sit down with the midwife Lindsay Mihalis, who is just incredible. She's also a doula, a lactation consultant, a CPR instructor and an emergency medical technician who is a provider in neonatal resuscitation. We sat down to talk all about giving birth and why normal physiological birth is so important and what it means when you have this rite of passage. I ask her so many questions because as you all know, I am on this fertility journey myself and I'm trying to learn everything I can before I get pregnant and I'm really interested in having a midwife and a doula and I just wanted to know everything, the ins and outs of it. So this was such a great episode. She is truly incredible. We talked about so much and I don't want to give anything away. I just think you need to listen to the episode and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. As always, if you could take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you want to tag both of us, if you love this episode on your Instagrams, tag me at Real Foodology and she shares her tag at the very end and I just hope that you love this episode so much. A lot of non stick cookware still contains harmful chemicals like Teflon pfas which are forever chemicals and the these can leech into our food, the environment and our home. I'm so happy to announce that there is an amazing company called Our Place that creates cookware that's non stick that isn't loaded with forever chemicals. A study by the Ecology center in California found that 80% of nonstick pans contain Teflon which is a PFAS forever chemical which can be released into your food, home and your body. So this is why it's so incredibly important to get something like Our Place that makes high performance toxin free cookware without the forever chemicals like PFS and pts Ease and they have this four piece cookware set which is the best way to overhaul your kitchen with multi functional high performance space saving pots and pans. Stop cooking with toxic cookware today and upgrade to our place. Visit fromourplace.com real foodology and use code real foodology for 10 off site wide. With a hundred day risk free trial, free shipping and returns you can experience this game changing cookware with zero risk. Since turning 40 there's a couple things that I'm really hyper focused on right now with my health. I want to feel stronger in my workouts. I also want to proactively preserve my health, my mobility, my strength and also my fertility as I get older. This is why I have been taking Mitopure from Timeline for about two years now. This supplement is so awesome. It supports your health at the foundation by encouraging cellular renewal. It is the precise dose of the rare postbiotic Urolithin A and it works by promoting an essential cellular cleanup process that clears out dysfunctional mitochondria which are your cell's battery packs. Mitopure is the only Urolithin A supplement on the market clinically proven to target the effects of age related cellular decline. With regular use, you'll see and feel the difference in the form of improved energy levels, better workouts, faster recovery, more endurance, and so much more. Timeline is offering 10% off your order of Mitopure if you go to timeline.com real foodology again, that's amazing. Lindsey, thank you so much for coming on.
- [03:45]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's so nice to have you actually in my space here.
- [03:49]
Real Foodology Host
I know we were just saying this before recording. I was looking around the room and I'm seeing all of your photos from births that you've done and it's really special to be in this space talking to you right now.
- [03:57]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah, it worked out perfect.
- [03:59]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. Okay, so I want to get into the meat of all this because I want to make sure we have time to cover everything. You and I texted about something recently and I was like, we have to talk about this on the podcast. And you were talking about how birth is a rite of. It's a rite of passage for women and you're concerned or I want to let you really tell what your thoughts are about this. But your concern is that a lot of women are missing out on this rite of passage because we've medicalized birth so much. And I want to be very clear that obviously thank God we have medical interventions for when there's emergencies.
- [04:33]
Lindsay Mihalis
Of course.
- [04:33]
Real Foodology Host
But can you talk about that maybe? Yeah. Talk more into women's power when they give birth.
- [04:37]
Lindsay Mihalis
So I even like to start by saying that I'm so grateful that we have the interventions that are there even Outside of emergencies, because you can't talk somebody into having a home birth. Now we also have to realize that for all of time, we've all given birth, you know, in a hut, in a cave, surrounded by all of our aunties and our sisters and the, you know, wise medical women in the community. And so, like, it's a modern day convenience that we have these things, but I never want to come on and just, just be like abrasive and be like, no, everybody has to do this. But when we actually think about the, the ritual of giving birth, like it's, it's an actual art and it's one of our first experiences as a human. So as we were born as a baby, that was our first rite of passage here onto the earth. And so how we were born and how we were treated at birth actually gives us these deep imprinted, primal patterns that we can create throughout our whole life. And that could be a whole podcast in itself. But, you know, if we're welcomed in in this gentle way and we're talked to with soft voices and the lights are low and you go straight up onto your mom's chest, skin to skin, and then you have the primal imprint of crawling and doing a breast crawl to the breast, you really think that life out here is, is pretty good. Opposed to, you know, if you look back at videos in the 1930s to the 1950s, the, you know, most common thing you think of is a do holding the baby by the foot and spanking the baby. You know, what a rude awakening to earth. And so while that's our first imprint here as humans, I always like to take it into the rites of passage that we have through all of the things throughout a woman's life. So we move into when we first menstruate. That's a really beautiful rite of passage. And back 50 years ago, we weren't even really talking about it. It was something that was the curse. You weren't allowed to really, you would hide your max pads or tampons and, you know, if you had, if you were lucky enough to have a mom that would talk about it, then maybe there would be some conversation around it. Whereas when my daughter got her first period, it was a full celebration. So I hosted at my house what we called the puberty. And we had all of her classmates over and she was horrified by the way. She was horrified.
- [07:00]
Real Foodology Host
I was gonna say, that's so cute.
- [07:02]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's really, really sweet. But she was horrified. And we talked about the different things that their bodies were going through. And so we talked about their breasts and we talked about the different phases that happen throughout a female's body in the, you know, anywhere from 28 to whatever day cycle it is that your body has. And we, we really lifted any shame around it. And so we, we, we did that. And then we moved into. When my daughter actually got her first menstruation, like I actually took her to a Korean day spa and we did this whole celebration around it. And then we move into preparing our bodies to give birth. So there's a big piece that's missing when we talk about birth is we need to talk about preconception because really your body is a fertile ground. We should be tilling the soil, we should be making sure that you're taking good care of yourself, that your partner is taking good care of themselves. We know that there's such huge factors involved in both of you guys being in good health moving into conception. Then I always say that we consciously call in our babies. So I recommend if somebody comes in for a preconception consult to like actually start writing letters to your unborn baby like, like, what are the things that you want for this baby? Like, how can this baby come here to be your teacher, right? And then we move through the pregnancy and we in a western world, we go through the pregnancy in a very, very beta brain. Like we are just like constantly driving and moving and there's all these things that are happening and we don't get to really come into the space of being in an alpha brain and that slow down, we get into our feminine space. We should be like, you know, out in a field picking, you know, and planting and knitting or sitting by the fire singing, all of those things that just slow us down. And it's really hard to do in our culture. And so if we start to like weave those things in, even if we are in our modern day culture, like, let's not have phones in the room, let's have the like contact with your partner. Let's have the oxytocin start to flow, which then helps everything, all of your receptor sites get ready for birth. And so if you are just conscious about those few things, it really does change moving into the next rite of passage, which is birth. And so I think that we've all known what's happened over the last 20, 30 years and we've softened our generation. We've really made it so we don't do hard things. Let's numb the hard things. Let's give every kid a trophy. Let's make it so everything's fair. We've taken away that hard is actually beautiful. That's the contrast of life without hard. Then you don't see the good. You don't, you don't have those experiences, those rich experiences where you really get the contrast of the two. And so I always say, you know, for out all of time we've given birth without any sort of medical intervention. Really grateful we have it. But if you actually learn the reason of why it's so important to go through those stages and learn what your body is capable of, it's hard work. Like, I've sat across from thousands of women who have given birth and I've. Last night I had two births. I was with two women last night that gave birth. One women gave birth to a 10 pound 3 ounce baby. And she's looking at me for her fourth baby. She's given birth with me before. We've met in this space before and I just had to remind her, like, the only way out is through. Like you can do this. You were made for this. Your body was made for this. That the sole purpose of you being here is to welcome your babies and to, and to do this, to give birth. And once you get through onto the other side, you, first of all, you meet your baby, which is the greatest gift that there ever is in the whole entire world. But then you get this rush of hormones which doesn't happen in medicalized birth, and you get this rush of hormones and it, you are like high as a kite for days. Like in the most beautiful way, you are literally programming yourself to fall in love with your baby. And so like of course, if you have a medicalized birth, you will still fall in love with your baby. That's not my message. But the extent of how high those hormones go is nothing you've ever experienced in your whole life. Like, it's nothing like an orgasm. It's, it's literally the greatest gift that you'll ever get. So it's this beautiful rite of passage where on the other side there's just something that's so wonderful. And you know, it's, it's to, to watch women walk through that, to watch their partners, watch their partner move through that is one of the greatest gifts that I've ever had in my whole lifetime. And, and when I enter into that space, it, it truly feels like heaven on earth. Like it's, it's a different energy than anybody. Like it's, it's something that I really can't even describe because it's something that's so holy and sacred. And so it's just, you know, you get to sit and be in that energy, and you get to sit at the feet of these women, and you get to watch them walk through the hardest thing they've ever done. And then on the other side, they get this beautiful baby. And. Yeah, just wish that that was talked about more because it's such a profound rite of passage and we're missing out on so much when we take that away. And then it affects postpartum, which I.
- [12:17]
Real Foodology Host
Want to talk about. Yeah, that was going to be my next question, but I did just want to say, as someone who has not been able to experience that yet, I very much hope that I get to. But you were really speaking to me when you said all of that, because I've always had this notion and this feeling of there's a power in all of us that sometimes needs to be unlocked under hardship. And I can imagine that when you go through something that tough, it unlocks this new magic in you that I can imagine of, like, wow, I am so powerful. And I remember I texted one of my best girlfriends about this months ago because she said something like, you know, this isn't for everyone, isn't for the, you know, the faint of heart. And I said, well, I actually believe it's for every woman and that we're designed to actually go through this because then it helps us really see the magic and power that we have in all of us as women. And again, I want to be very careful and say, obviously, if you have a medical emergency and intervention, thank God we have all that. Right? So this is not to shame anyone that has gone through it in a different way. And we're going to talk about all that, too. But the postpartum thing, I think is really interesting, too, because there's a couple things that I've learned that I want my audience to hear about. One is that I heard that epidurals, they're now adding fentanyl to them. And so if you don't know this, you and your baby are getting fentanyl if you don't ask for it. And then I heard that it affects postpartum mentally for the mom, and then sometimes it can help the baby or it affects the baby where they may not be able to latch on right away.
- [13:42]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah, this is so very controversial.
- [13:44]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, so we dive into a lot here.
- [13:47]
Lindsay Mihalis
So what happens is, if there was a study that was put out that that basically was the length of the epidural. So however long, the longer the epidural then what we were finding is that when if there was any possible, you know, anybody thinking that there was something that the mom was on, if the baby had a tox screen and a baby tested positive for fentanyl, what they had to start realizing is that sometimes it was from the epidural, like, it was crossing the placenta barrier and it was going. And so it was like, you know, 12 hours, there was a certain percentage, and then you go into, like, 15 hours, it was a higher percentage. And 24 hours, and, like, that's a long time to have medication flowing through your body. And so in regards to the postpartum part with mom, with the emotions, even prior to there being fentanyl and epidurals, anytime that we're going in and we're having any sort of intervention, that's knocking the connection of the feeling that's happening within the body. Because when you get an epidural, the goal is that you're numb from your nipples to your toes, and so you're completely disconnected from the process that's happening with your body. And so it does interfere with some of the hormone receptors in the brain. And when that happens, then that can impact many things. I mean, you know, we can talk about postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, we can talk about breastfeeding success rates. Like, there's so many things. Sadly, there's not great studies on any of this, because when you look at Big Farm, like, this is their bread and butter.
- [15:12]
Real Foodology Host
Oh, yeah.
- [15:12]
Lindsay Mihalis
And they know that if they get, you know, it's womb to tomb, cradle to grave, you know, it's. It's. That's. That they know right out the bat. Like, if they get women, like, making decisions for that family for the rest of its life, they have a good experience. If they have all of these happen that they're going to making those decisions for their family involving that specific, like, medical group or that specific hospital. And so they really try to, like, make everything. Yeah, they get you in early, so.
- [15:38]
Real Foodology Host
Well, and it's also why they try to get you on formula before you're out of the hospital, because then once your baby's on formula, your body stops producing enough milk, right?
- [15:45]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes, yes.
- [15:46]
Real Foodology Host
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- [18:09]
Lindsay Mihalis
Co. No, so that's a really big problem. And so we've been dealing with the issues of Nestle, which is one of the biggest Formula makers for, gosh, since the 60s where they're going into impoverished areas in Africa and giving out baby formula where these people literally couldn't afford it at all. Like, there was no way that they were going to be able to afford this for their babies. So then they were watering down the formula because they were losing their milk supplies. And there was, I mean, there was thousands and thousands of babies dying from this. It was a really bad thing. And so like, yeah, great, we're here in America and we don't have, you know, as much of the poverty as some of the places in Africa that this was happening. But like, like, hello, it's still America. Like we still have high unemployment rates, we still have people on, you know, wic, we still have people on all these governmental systems. And so when you go in, I mean it's, it's across the board. So I used to be an international board certified lactation consultant. I did all of the schooling, I had all the certifications. I worked on the hospital system for years and years. I saw thousands and thousands and thousands of babies in the hospital for breastfeeding. And I would walk into the hospital and I would look at the board which in the postpartum unit was all the moms that were there and what their births were. So they would like, it would say C for cesarean or V for vaginal birth. And then it would usually have some sort of indication if there was an induction. And I would go in and I would say, okay, I'm going to need to see her, her, her and her. Because anytime that there was any massive intervention, I knew that there was going to be a problem with breastfeeding. And so I got so disheartened by the system because every time what it really came back to is like, if we fix birth, then we're not going to see as many breastfeeding problems. And that was one of the main reasons that I pushed myself to midwifery is to me was fixing birth. That was empowering the mom to have an experience that she was in control of. Even if we needed any sort of medical intervention, she was the one making the decisions. And then the next thing is that it was also taking baby's experience and the consideration of their experience into what happens during the birth. And so, you know, I talked about, you know, earlier, like how we would dim the lights and lower our voices and we would let the baby breast crawl and all those things. And if those things aren't in play, then it disrupts the natural pattern of a successful breastfeeding so, you know, I have deep sympathy for women that have issues with breastfeeding. I mean, I was the top. I knew so much about breastfeeding when I was breastfeeding my son, and I had issues for, like, a good six weeks with him. And I had successfully breastfed my daughter for years prior, so I was, like, an expert on all of this. And so we struggled. And it wasn't because of the birth. It was just because he had issues with his latch, and we had to do some, you know, body work and craniosacral and stuff like that. So I understand how hard it is to breastfeed. And, you know, I remember, like, looking at him at 3 o'clock in the morning and being like, you're so lucky that I'm gonna keep going because this is hard, and I'm just gonna keep going because I know this is what's best for you. Yeah. And so when we. We have to take into consideration that there are situations like. Like, you know, there's this whole thing right now where it's like, fed is.
- [21:12]
Real Foodology Host
Best, and it's like, I cannot. I'm sorry. That drives me nuts.
- [21:15]
Lindsay Mihalis
It drives me. It drives. It's the bare minimum. And. And, like, yes, thank God we have formula and alternatives to breast milk if we need it. But that should be our last resort. It truly should be our last resort. We should be able to have milk banks across the country of donor milk. You can pasteurize. You could even dehydrate milk and make it in human milk into formula. You know, like, you just basically scoop it out and put it in. But live human milk for our babies is what we should be promoting. This is the building block of the entire future. We can go into leaky gut. We can go into all the allergens. We can go into the fact that most formula is made up of seed oils and high fructose corn syrup. Like, how is that a good building block and foundation for the entire nutrition basis of your life? That's not.
- [22:07]
Real Foodology Host
No, it's not. And I. I do want to say. So I said, I'm laughing. Not at you. I'm laughing because I got into this whole thing with this registered dietitian, like, last year, who we've talked about before. And I don't even want to give her any sort of, like, air time, but I will say this. So I said, high fructose corn syrup was in baby formula on a podcast, like, three years ago. And this RD has had it out for me for the last couple of years. And apparently now, just to set the record straight so this doesn't happen again, now it's corn syrup solids, not high fructose corn syrup. I know. We're both rolling our eyes, by the way, because. Because.
- [22:43]
Lindsay Mihalis
Which is probably just a mislabel. Like they're just relabeling something to say it.
- [22:48]
Real Foodology Host
Well, I think they relabeled it so that mothers weren't as concerned anymore because now our Ds that are more on the traditional route and really all about the big formula, they're all in lockstep now saying, well, corn syrup solids are actually really healthy for a baby and it's lower in fructose and it's really good for you. Yeah. Anyway, so I just wanted to correct that because it's.
- [23:11]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah.
- [23:11]
Real Foodology Host
You know, there was some stuff circulating online. So, yeah, now it's corn syrup solids, but my whole thing is, is it comes from genetically modified corn. Unless if it says non GMO on there, most of them do not say non gmo, which means higher glyphosate. And also, babies weren't supposed to be eating corn right out of the womb. No, most people are allergic to corn now because we have so much corn in our food supply. But anyway, so I just wanted to. To say that. But yeah, so let's talk about. Cause I was actually reading about this the other day and I read it's actually on our CDC website right now, now that babies who are breastfed actually have a lower incident of obesity, lower incidence of asthma, allergies, like, you name it. It was just like down the line.
- [23:50]
Lindsay Mihalis
Lower incidents of sids.
- [23:51]
Real Foodology Host
Yes.
- [23:51]
Lindsay Mihalis
Because it's not as heavy of a protein. The babies that are breastfed actually are supposed to wake up more frequently. And so if they don't go into that deep sleep period, then they wake up and they're not more susceptible to sids. There's so many things that. I mean, there. Why are we not promoting something that's optimal?
- [24:10]
Real Foodology Host
Because it doesn't make money.
- [24:11]
Lindsay Mihalis
Of course.
- [24:11]
Real Foodology Host
Breast milk is free.
- [24:12]
Lindsay Mihalis
Of course.
- [24:13]
Real Foodology Host
Let's be real. That's really what's happening there. And you know what's even more insidious? I'm actually going to do a podcast specifically about this. We don't talk a lot about it, but a lot of these formula companies are lobbying in Washington to huge money.
- [24:25]
Lindsay Mihalis
Huge money.
- [24:25]
Real Foodology Host
Because they don't want women to have longer maternity leaves because the shorter maternity leave they have, then they have more customers. Exactly. The more likely they are to put their baby on formula that is in City.
- [24:36]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. I mean, there's really no mother that wants to go back to work at six weeks. Like, that's, that's, that's insanity. Like, you're literally just finishing bleeding. Like, if you have you had any vaginal tears, like, all of that, like, you're literally in the throes of it at six weeks. Like, to, to tell a mom, like, sorry, go put your kid in daycare. Let's have you go back to work full time. And then you go straight into the cradle, the grave. Like, you're, you're a customer for life at that moment. And so when we look at other countries, I have my sister that lives in Sweden and so they, she has a year and a half off and the partner does. And the partner has six months off. And if the partner doesn't take the six months, then it applies to. They just transferred over back to the mom.
- [25:17]
Real Foodology Host
I didn't know that.
- [25:18]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. And so you look at their breastfeeding rates compared to ours, and it's so significantly different. And then you look at their health. I mean, you know, just that alone, you can, you can, can easily contribute it not just to them just being breastfed, but them, to being with their, their parents, to them, you know, they're outside is so important to them there. It's just a different, such a different community. And oh my gosh, you know, and I think that's why it's so important with the movement that we're, you know, pushing so hard for right now with the Maha movement is like, this is why.
- [25:50]
Real Foodology Host
So where, where you are in the spectrum as far as, like, formula and like breast banking goes. So let's just say, because I always like to have a conversation around, I'm going to get a lot of heat for this. My general thinking is that most women can breastfeed. A lot more women are choosing, actively choosing to go to formula because I have heard from multiple of my friends it is very hard to breastfeed. And a lot of women are running their own businesses. I have several of my girlfriends who are working. And it's hard. I heard it's really hard.
- [26:24]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's hard.
- [26:25]
Real Foodology Host
So a lot of women are wanting to go on formula because it makes their life easier. And by the way, just to be very clear, I am not here to shame anyone. Like, I am like, whatever you think is best for you and your baby. Like, I'm all here for it and I'm a huge champion of you. But I just like to talk about this because let's say that there so for the small subs of women that just like, really cannot, like, let's say they, they have breast cancer or we're on chemo or something, there's like insufficient.
- [26:50]
Lindsay Mihalis
Glandular tissue, which is something that we can see every now. Like, like there's, there are things like if you've had breast reduction surgery, like, there's, there are definitely things that can impact breastfeeding. But I can tell you I don't have any formula reps in my office. I'm not giving formula to any of my clients. They don't go home, you know, they don't leave the office here with any formula. I have a hundred percent breastfeeding initiation rate. That means that every single baby that is born with me has the opportunity to do the breast crawl. They go straight to the breast. They are always on latched within the first hour after birth. And I mean, there's not always. Always is a hard word. But you know, within most situations, they're always latched. And by six months, I would say that my population of moms, that 95%, are still breastfeeding. So I'm going to bring it back to the rite of passage, right? Yeah, birth is hard, breastfeeding is hard. You are made to do hard things, right? And so if we look at it from a different standpoint and say like, yeah, this is really hard, but it's optimal for my baby and I'm going to keep pushing through it and I'm going to gather the resources that I need to make this easier for me. We would have such higher breastfeeding rates. But what happens is you're in a hospital setting, there's a formula room in the hospitals, and within, within hours, I mean, I see it all the time. Within hours. If I ever have a transfer to the hospital, you know, again, thank God we have the resources available when we need it. The first thing I say is don't listen to anything that they're going to say because you're going to have to unlearn everything. Basically right now they're checking boxes. They want to know that your baby's feeding every two hours for 15 minutes on each side. And if there's any nurses listening, they'll know exactly what I'm talking about. They're checking a box of the baby's, you know, has the voided diapers, has the output, has the input. And then what happens is if anything veers outside of normal, the first thing they'll do is give formula. Formula. The first thing they'll do is get formula Some hospitals will send lactation consultants in, but some of the worst advice I hear is from lactation consultants, which is why I dropped my international Board certified title. Because I was like, this is too complicated. Y'all are making it too complicated. You're giving them 55 things to do when all they need to do is lay in bed, put their baby skin to skin and just stay there for two days and they'll figure it out. So it's, it's a, it's a really hard place because you guys, we know like feeding your baby is one of the most important things that we do, like that it's essential for their life. But like, we also have to stop saying that fed is best because we have to realize that it's the basic what is optimal for your baby is what we should be promoting. If we had a higher success rate with breastfeeding, if we had a longer duration of breastfeeding rates in our country, just that alone would change the health of our country. Country.
- [29:41]
Real Foodology Host
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- [31:54]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes.
- [31:54]
Real Foodology Host
I think we'd see less, you know, obesity, asthma, all of it. Yeah. And it's so unfortunate that whenever we have conversations like this, people just. I mean, I'm. I'm already envisioning my DMs. Like, they're just going to be filled with attacks, and it's fine. Like, I. I think, what's something that.
- [32:12]
Lindsay Mihalis
We do all the time? You know, we speak the truth. It's it. And it's not. We're not saying this to offend anybody.
- [32:18]
Real Foodology Host
Or hurt anyone, make anyone feel bad.
- [32:20]
Lindsay Mihalis
And we honor you for the choices that you do. But listen to the whole conversation. You know, don't just take the sizzle reel and attack because of us saying that this is what's optimal. Like, let's have an actual, real conversation about this.
- [32:34]
Real Foodology Host
But I also want to know, why are women getting so mad when we're trying to just share that breastfeeding is ultimately the healthiest for a baby? This is what I don't understand.
- [32:43]
Lindsay Mihalis
I think it's the shame of the women that haven't breastfed their babies. You know, the ones that choose not to breastfeed their babies, which is their choice. Choice.
- [32:50]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [32:51]
Lindsay Mihalis
And. And so they think that they're doing something wrong. Like they're not doing the most optimal thing for their babies.
- [32:57]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. But I think a lot of women have also been duped by our medical system and lied to, you know, because we tell them formula is just as good, it's just as healthy. They say that big formula creates these formulations that are. That mimic breast milk, which is absolutely insane. You could never mimic God's perfect design. No, like, that's.
- [33:17]
Lindsay Mihalis
You can't even mimic it from hour to hour, you know, like the. The milk that you have at 9am is completely different. Different than the milk that you have at 4pm If I walk into a room and there's people that are sick, my body's gonna automatically start making antibodies to give to my baby. When I sense that there's a sickness in the air. Like, it. It's so finely tuned. Like I always say, you're walking around with a medicine chest. Like, you're literally, like, it's medicine. What you have on your body, it's. It's just incredible. So you can't.
- [33:42]
Real Foodology Host
That's so cool.
- [33:43]
Lindsay Mihalis
You can't duplicate that. But when we look back to. I always like to look back a couple generations, right. So, like, birth. In 1900, 100% of babies were born at home. By 1950, we were down to, like, almost 5%, like, of babies that were being born at home. Drastic change in one generation. Right. During that time, what we saw was big pharma. So we had the Flexner report that came out. We had the Rockefellers that knew that they were anything with petroleum they would profit off of. So they went straight into pharmaceuticals. They totally villainized anything. Natural midwives, chiropractors, natural acupuncturist, they were all quacks, right?
- [34:22]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Lindsay Mihalis
So then what happened is they. They actually said back in the 50s that formula was better than breast milk. That was. That was part of the message. And so now as we're coming out of that, like, it. There's so much residual that's still there. Because, you know, I look at my parents, they were born in the 50s, right? So that's how they were raised. That's what their parents were told. And so that's what they brought into raising up us. And so there has to be this flip. And you look at, like, the organic, like, Leche league in the 1970s. It was just these, like, hippie moms that were like. That is not true.
- [34:55]
Real Foodology Host
What are your thoughts on. Well, I can already. I. I'm pretty sure I already know what you're gonna say about this, but I. I want to talk a little bit about C sections. And I don't know if a lot of women know this. If you have to have a C section, the. This. The wiping of the. The baby's mouth with the mom's vaginal flora.
- [35:14]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. So it's called vaginal seating.
- [35:15]
Real Foodology Host
Okay.
- [35:17]
Lindsay Mihalis
So I always like to start by saying I had a C section with my daughter. So my first birth was a C section. And my second birth was in my jacuzzi in my backyard. So I've had the whole gamut of the spectrum of that. And so what happens when a baby is born vaginally is there is a lot. You're going through the vaginal canal. There's lots of different microbiomes that are there. You know, we could have Zach Bush on and talk about the microbiome of life. And you think about it, our vaginal opening is really close to our anus. Right. So, like, it's. It's almost every mom poops when they give birth. Like, that's a very common thing. And so, you know, in a hospital, like, you have a sterile drape on and they spray you down with Betadine and they make sure that everything's quote unquote, sterile, which is a joke, because there's no way you can make that sterile.
- [36:06]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [36:06]
Lindsay Mihalis
And so you forget that for all of time when we were birthing in a cave, we had, like, probably some straw or leaves or something, and there was no Betadine and there was no sterile drapes, and there was no sterile gloves. And birth wasn't sterile because it's not supposed to be sterile. And when that happens, there's so much benefit to the baby's gut and their microbiome of passing through and having all of those exposures. So when you bypass that with a C section, there is a lot that they miss out on. And so it was pretty trendy, I would say, like, 10 years ago, where moms would actually take, like, a long swab Q tip, and they would swab the inside of their vagina, and then they would swab the inside of their baby's mouth. And that was to kind of replicate the seating that was happening that they missed out on during the vaginal birth.
- [37:01]
Real Foodology Host
Smart.
- [37:01]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's smart. But there's certain things you have to take into consideration. So. So if a mom is group B strep positive, I wouldn't recommend swabbing vagina. Swabbing your baby's mouth.
- [37:14]
Real Foodology Host
So this is why I think it's so incredibly important. And I've heard you talk about this before, and I want to hear you talk about it more is why it's so important to individualize this.
- [37:21]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes.
- [37:22]
Real Foodology Host
Right.
- [37:23]
Lindsay Mihalis
This is the entire healthcare system, though. Like, this is not just a birthing. We need to individualize care for everybody. Like, we need to look at everybody as a whole person. We don't need to be looking at just symptom specific things. And so when somebody comes into my office and they sit down on these chairs and we have our first conversation. The first thing that I'll say to them is that I want you to know that I inherently trust that you know your body better than I know your body. Thank you.
- [37:49]
Real Foodology Host
I love that.
- [37:50]
Lindsay Mihalis
And then I'll go into saying that everything that we do while I'm going to sit here and tell you like, this is the standard things that we do and these are the standard appointments that we have. If there's anything that needs to be individualized for you, you then just communicate that throughout the entire process. You know, I have families that will come in with five kids and like it's a total family centered experience. And the kids are partaking it in each prenatal appointment and listening to the baby's heartbeat and help me measuring the belly. And then I have first time moms that are in here and they're like, tell me what to do, you know, And I'm. Every time they ask me a question, my favorite response is, how does that feel to you? This is what I think. This is a couple things that you could try, but how does that feel to you? Because anytime I take away their power and I'm the one that's actually telling them what to do, then they're going to lose their intuition on what they should do when they start parenting their babies. And that intuition is the greatest gift that they will ever have.
- [38:42]
Real Foodology Host
And I was just thinking about how whenever we go through the whole process with the doctor, and this isn't even about birth necessarily, but just in general with the medical system, is that we've gotten to this place where so many people put their doctor on a pedestal as if like they're a God.
- [38:57]
Lindsay Mihalis
Doctor's God.
- [38:57]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, exactly. And then as a result, they, they let the doctor take all their power away and then they're not in touch at all with their intuition. And what you just said is so true. A doctor will be, they can be an expert on the human body, but you are the expert on your own body.
- [39:13]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes.
- [39:14]
Real Foodology Host
And it needs to be this symbiotic relationship. You can't just give somebody else all of your power away because then you're not going to be able to listen to your own intuition. And you're intuition knows what you need.
- [39:21]
Lindsay Mihalis
Exactly.
- [39:22]
Real Foodology Host
For your body.
- [39:23]
Lindsay Mihalis
Exactly what you need.
- [39:24]
Real Foodology Host
Yes. Wow, that is really. That's powerful. So I want to ask you, we talked about, we talked about epidurals. What are your thoughts on Pitocin? Because I've been hearing about a lot of women Actually, a girlfriend of mine did this where she had a natural birth, but she had Pitocin.
- [39:43]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. So, okay, so natural birth is kind of interchangeable now for dispatch. So a natural birth to me is when there's no intervention, like, there's no medication that's on board. And a vaginal birth is a vaginal birth. But a natural birth means that you haven't had any sort of medical intervention and then you move through a different process within your body. But it's whatever. It's just a way that we're rewording things. I think that the greenwashing that's happening across all of everything, Big Ag, all of it, tries to make things more natural. You, like, we'll look at a box of food and it says natural. And you're like, but what does that mean?
- [40:16]
Real Foodology Host
Exactly.
- [40:16]
Lindsay Mihalis
You know what's natural? Yeah. So I, I'm really grateful for Pitocin. I'm going to start by saying that I carry it in my med bag. I have it everywhere. I go to any single birth that I go to. It is a great anti hemorrhagic medication. Okay. So if I have a woman that is bleeding excessively at home, for me to have that as an option is something that's wonderful right now in the United States, there are many states where midwives aren't allowed to carry that medication, which is crazy because you're. If you're at home and you're. You have a time away from the hospital for us to not be able to adm. Minister of medication, which could potentially save somebody's life, there should be zero question for that. That's one thing with the MAHA initiatives that I'm like, that needs to change. There's 13 states right now that don't even have licensure for midwives, which means it's either illegal to be a midwife or it's illegal so that they could be prosecuted if somebody feels like prosecuting them.
- [41:08]
Real Foodology Host
So Texas isn't one of those?
- [41:10]
Lindsay Mihalis
No. Okay. Because Texas has great midwives.
- [41:13]
Real Foodology Host
Okay, good.
- [41:13]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. But, but like, that's ridiculous. Like today in 2025, the fact that there's 13 states that don't have leg around a medical provider that's providing care, individualized care to women is just bonkers to me.
- [41:27]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, that's nuts.
- [41:28]
Lindsay Mihalis
So back to Pitocin. So if you look at the data, typically about 90% of women in a hospital receive Pitocin. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they're induced with Pitocin, but they'll typically receive it after giving birth because it's. There's something that's called third stage active management, which. The third stage of labor is the delivery of the placenta. So the hospital usually wants the placenta out within 30 days, minutes. And they will give any sort of anti hemorrhagic medications to contract the uterus and expedite that process.
- [41:56]
Real Foodology Host
Is that painful, by the way, when you pass the placenta?
- [41:59]
Lindsay Mihalis
So it depends on how you're doing it. So if you're getting it yanked out of you. Yes, it's super painful. If it just comes out naturally, it actually feels really good. There's no bones in it. Typically they're about one to two pounds, and it's warm and it's like kind of gelatinous when it comes through. So your body could cramps, like naturally. So you give birth, the baby comes out, the baby comes up on the breast. The baby nursing starts to release oxytocin, which. Pitocin is synthetic oxytocin. And so if that's, you know, happening, then the mom starts to get stronger contractions as she starts to contract, the uterus starts to detach and move down and through. And then it's I, I refer to it as kind of like a dry tampon. So you're kind of like pushing something out of your body and it's uncomfortable. Like you're crampy and like you're like, get this out of me. And then once it comes out, it's like, oh, that felt so good. And then, and then you get inspected and, you know, everything like that. But in the situations where we have a true hemorrhage, I think that Pitocin is amazing. But for the majority of women that are being induced with it, we go back to the conversation that we had with all the other, other interventions. Anytime that we're giving something synthetic, it's going to knock off. What's that, that dynamic feedback with all of the hormones in our brain. You know, there's. There's some studies that say significant things about Pitocin. I. There was one, gosh, I don't even know how many years ago that was. Looking at the possible correlation of the increase of autism. Like, if a mom's had a Pitocin induction, there was a higher correlation with that child having autism. And if we look at the autism rates right now we're at 1 in 32 children, which is crazy.
- [43:39]
Real Foodology Host
I mean, it's not.
- [43:40]
Lindsay Mihalis
I mean, when, when our parents are growing up, it was like 1 in 10,000. And then you're gonna have all these people that will argue and say what we're diagnosing better. No, sorry. We did not have 1 in 32 kids that had autism back 50 years ago.
- [43:51]
Real Foodology Host
Our parents generation would have noticed when more people are non verbal, you know, or like putting their head up against the wall and stemming, I mean, all of that, there's no way that that would have gone under diagnosed.
- [44:02]
Lindsay Mihalis
No. No way.
- [44:03]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, yeah. It's really sad. So, well, let's talk a little bit about Maha because you and I are both involved in this.
- [44:10]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes.
- [44:11]
Real Foodology Host
And you're working on a Maha coalition for moms. Can you talk more about that?
- [44:14]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. So it's really exciting. So basically what we're doing right now is we're launching a coalition. It's called the Maha Mom Coalition. And there's a lot of moms that were very heavily involved when Bobby Kennedy was running for president. But prior to him running for president, one of the reasons that we all love him so much is that he was with us fighting up in Sacramento during a couple different laws that passed in California. So in 2015 and 2019, there was two laws, SB 277 and SB 276. And that basically took away the religious and personal belief exemptions for vaccines from parents. And then the one in 2019 took away the medical exemption rights for doctors to say that there was an exemption. And so Bobby was there, he was listening to us, and he was, you know, in the snake pit. He was every step of the way flying back and forth and really helping us with legislation because that's what he knew, you know, that's, he, he had done that his whole life. And so when we moved in, like, basically he launched his, like maha alongside of Trump. It was, was, it was interesting because all of these moms that were, you know, voting for Bobby and the independent race and all this stuff were like, okay, we're lumped into this and it's taken off. I mean, he just got, you know, he just got through with the secretary of hhs, thank God. And so what, what I'm doing with this coalition, it's me and a 4 moms that founded it, and we are super passionate about birth, but more so we're calling it the, you know, the roots of the nation. So what we see with this coalition is that we're going to have our, our symbolism is going to be a tree. And if we do not address the roots of our nation, so if we do not address our infertility rates that are plummeting right now they're saying by 2045, the sperm rate is going to be zero. Like, how do we have kids if we don't have a sperm rate? Like, that's, that's something that we really need to talk about. That's not far away. That's my grandchildren. Like, you know, that's the next generation of kids. And so we have to start talking about ways that we can improve that. We can't just look to IVF and think that we're going to have all this technology for reproduction. We have to like, actually take a step back and say, why is this happening? Can we look at the atrazine? Can we look at the glycophate? Can we look at all the plastics that are mimicking estrogen and causing all of these issues with infertility? Like, that has to be the first thing that we start to do. And then we start to look at pregnancy, we start to look at birth, we start to look at our breastfeeding rates, we start to start talking about how we can change postpartum for moms. Can we not have a 6 weeks maternity leave? Can we have something that's much longer than that?
- [47:05]
Real Foodology Host
We need to start valuing children in this country again. We need to start valuing motherhood and giving women.
- [47:11]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's so important. It's the greatest gift that we can give to ourselves as women. It truly is. And you're talking to somebody that also worked while I had my babies. You know, I was at birth when I had a six month old on my back. But if you ask me right now, my greatest memories of my life in the last 43 years that I've been on this planet, I will tell you that it was raising my babies. I will tell you that it was the nights where I would wake up and I would turn on my Himalayan salt and I had a pink glow in the room and I sat and looked at my babies when I would breastfeed them in the middle of the night. Nothing will ever replace that time with my babies. So we have to bring back the sacredness of them. And so as we move up that tree, the trunk of that tree is now our children and our children's health. And we have to start really valuing what we're like. The food at the schools, what are we giving them at home? What are we, what are we thinking? What are we educating moms on that's healthy? Like goldfish crackers and fruit juice are not healthy.
- [48:09]
Real Foodology Host
Yes.
- [48:10]
Lindsay Mihalis
So we need to kind of come back to that, like ancestral, like, what My great grandma and my grandma ate growing up on a farm.
- [48:16]
Real Foodology Host
Farm, yes.
- [48:17]
Lindsay Mihalis
You know, they were out milking cows and drinking raw milk, and they were, you know, having.
- [48:22]
Real Foodology Host
Probably making bone broth.
- [48:24]
Lindsay Mihalis
Bone broth and tallow with all of their food and liver, eating all of it. You know, like, that needs to be the foundation right there. And then as we move up that tree, then we. There's so many things that we can involve. So you think of this big tree with the branches, and you think of, like, clean water. We're already talking about taking fluoride out of drinking water, but let's talk about clean air next. Can we stop with all this spraying? That's not a conspiracy theory.
- [48:48]
Real Foodology Host
They just passed a bill in Arizona today blocking it, banning it.
- [48:52]
Lindsay Mihalis
And that just happened in Tennessee. And I know that there's legislation right now in Texas for it, and there's.
- [48:56]
Real Foodology Host
Also legislation in Florida.
- [48:57]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes.
- [48:58]
Real Foodology Host
So it's 1000% not a conspiracy. Literally moving through our courts right now.
- [49:02]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yes. And so it's really just making sure that we look at the, like, not, like, same thing as medicine. Right. Let's have individualized care. Let's look at the whole person. Person. Let's look at the whole tree. Like, let's make sure that we're starting from the ground up. Is the soil rich? Do we have fertile soil? What are we going to do for that person's health for the rest of its life? And so, as we launch this coalition, there's a manifesto that we've come up with, and there's so many different things that we have, and I'll make sure that you have a link to that so your readers can listen to it. But we have this amazing launch that we're doing on Saturday, and it's just. It's so exciting. There's so much momentum behind it all. And I just think it's beautiful because everybody's ready. Like. Like, us moms are sick and tired of seeing our kids so sick. And so it's. It's this movement. And if you would have asked me in 2019 this question, I would have said everything was hopeless. Because when we lost our right to have medical exemptions for our kids, to not have vaccines, to go to school in the state of California, it felt hopeless. And the army didn't stay. Stop the. The passion, the power that is behind a mom. Like, do not stand in the way of a mom. Like, if there's one thing that's going to change the earth, it's the moms.
- [50:13]
Real Foodology Host
I know. That's what's so exciting about this whole Maha movement is I really think, obviously, there's a lot of people involved that are very passionate, but I think it was really driven forward by the moms because there's just so beautiful the way. I mean, there's a fire behind that. It's very cool. And it kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier of giving birth and women realizing and waking up to this, like, magic and power they have inside of them. Right. And then it's just then, now they have that power and protection over their children, and it's been transferred forward, and now it's this fiery movement that we can't stop. But it's amazing.
- [50:45]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's a freight train right now, I promise you. Yeah. And it's just going to get bigger. A lot of people are associating the Maha movement with Trump, and I just keep screaming like, you guys, this is a bipartisan movement. This has nothing to do with any political affiliation. This is the health of our generation. This is the progression of our future. If we don't start right now, there is not gonna be a future. Like, 2045 is so close. And if we do not start connecting the dots and fixing all of these things, then it's like there's nothing left. So it's that passion that's just gonna keep driving us forward.
- [51:17]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. Yeah. And it's unfortunate that some people can't see the forest through the trees right now, and they're so focused on their hate and whatever towards Trump that they can't see that this is actually something that's beneficial for every single American. You know? But we just have to keep forging forward. And I hope that in the next couple years, this won't be so political and so divisive and that more people can just come together for the betterment of society and for the betterment of our children. I want to ask you a couple. Couple questions about some other stuff regarding birth while we still have time. Yeah, so there's that. That. Oh, okay. So what is. What are your thoughts about testing for gestational diabetes? I know that there's some camps where they just say, don't test for it at all. There's other camps that say, do it, but then you can eat the jelly beans. Or my friend, when she was doing the test, they just had her eat a standard American diet, which. How funny is that? It was just like, pancakes and orange juice, and I was like, huh?
- [52:11]
Lindsay Mihalis
Which equivalates to 50 grams of sugar.
- [52:13]
Real Foodology Host
Exactly.
- [52:14]
Lindsay Mihalis
So I think it's really important to test for. I'm not going to say gestational diabetes. I'm going to say diabetes. Because if you look at our metabolic health, 93% of us have some sort of metabolic condition. One of the biggest things right now is insulin resistance or, you know, high blood sugars.
- [52:29]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [52:30]
Lindsay Mihalis
And so I. Whenever I have somebody that comes in through my clinic, it's the first thing we do with blood work is I run a hemoglobin A1C. So hemoglobin A1C gives us an average blood sugar over a couple month period of time. We have a percentage. As long as that percentage is within normal limits. I mean, I would right away would be able to tell if somebody was already a diet diabetic, you know, like a type 2 diabetic. And I've had that, too. I've had women that have come in and I'm like, oh, wow, your blood sugars are through the roof. Let's get this under control right away. But then we continue to watch it throughout the pregnancy. And so I have a really good guideline within my practice, which is not the standard guidelines. And I will, like, 100% say that I have had such beautiful success with watching A1Cs throughout the pregnancy. And if I have anybody that goes over five, which is a very low number, like, usually they'll say, anybody over 5.7 is an increased risk of diabetes. So I bump it down to 5.3. If anybody's over 5.3, I have them get a continuous glucose monitor.
- [53:28]
Real Foodology Host
Smart.
- [53:28]
Lindsay Mihalis
And I put two weeks on. I just say, let's start with two weeks. And, you know, everybody's like, oh, gosh, this is. This is bad. Or like, you know, and I'm like, you guys, this is empowering.
- [53:37]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, it's good to know you're gonna.
- [53:39]
Lindsay Mihalis
See what your body's doing throughout the pregnancy. You're gonna see every single meal that you eat, every single time you have a stressful event. Like, there's so many things that impact our blood sugars throughout the day. And so if they have this, you know, monitor. And I don't like the fact that there is the, you know, the EMF and Bluetooth. But the. The good thing is a lot of them, like, I know Casey means their levels company. It's just when you scan it. So it's not like it's a continuous Bluetooth that's going back and forth. It's just when you scan it and you get the data and then you do that every couple hours, but it gives you this data, that's just lifetime data. And then you're able to see what, like, oh, the rice that I just ate that just spiked my sugars to 180. I probably shouldn't do that. So exactly what I'm telling you right now isn't accepted across the board for Western medicine. So if you have a doctor that is insistent on testing for gestational diabetes, ask them to write you a prescription for a continuous glucose monitor.
- [54:34]
Real Foodology Host
That's smart.
- [54:35]
Lindsay Mihalis
They will. And even if they don't, do, like, if your insurance doesn't cover a continuous glucose monitor, you can get a glucose monitor at home. You can monitor your blood sugars when you wake up with fasting in the morning and then one hour after every meal. And it will give you some sort of a picture. It's not that it's not ideal, the CGM is definitely ideal, but it will give you some sort of a picture of what you're doing throughout the day and kind of give you that guidance of what to avoid throughout the rest of pregnancy, but also the rest of our lives. Like, there's certain things that we really should be careful with, you know, like, we. We really should be, you know, making sure that exercise is a priority after certain meals. And there's just so many things that you can do with that. And I actually did a whole podcast on this. It was with a type 1 diabetic mom that we had taken into our care with one of my colleagues, who's actually writing the manifesto with me, Dr. Stuart Fishbein. And he has an amazing podcast called Birthing Instincts. So if you need more information on that, I would definitely suggest checking that whole podcast out, because I spent an hour and a half talking about just this topic.
- [55:36]
Real Foodology Host
Okay. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that'll be super helpful for people. So I'm curious what your advice would be. Well, let's just say me, so I'm 40. I really would like to have a natural birth. I'm still trying to decide if I'm being honest if I want to do a birthing center. If I'm being super honest, I'm freaked out to have my first baby. Also at my age, which I know I've had a lot of conversations with people about this. It's more about, you know, how healthy you are and how well you take care of yourself. And I realize all that, I still am, like, a little bit freaked out, and I'm debating whether or not I want to do at home or, like, doing a birthing center. And so my Question is, because I'm assuming that I know there's a lot of women that are in my shoes. What would be your advice to someone about making that decision?
- [56:24]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yep. So there's. There's really no difference in safety. So there is no safety net that a birth center has. So they don't have an anesthesiologist on call. They don't have an operating room five minutes down the hall. There are some birth centers that do operate within, like, hospital system, like either within the hospital itself or like that are connected to the hospital. So that's a different story. But when I talk about the difference between home birth and birth center. So anytime that you leave your house and you're going to somebody else's space, you have to think about how you would be in that space if you were to need to take a poop or you wanted to have sex. Okay. So normally most women don't really like to poop outside of our houses is. Right. And to be able to, like, have sex and have a good orgasm when you're in somebody else's space, not only in someone else's space, with. When there's someone there that's watching you, that changes everything. And so there's this, like, myth that the birthing centers are safe. It's like the in between place. Yeah. But unless you live, you know, if you live three hours away from a hospital and your birth center is 20 minutes from a hospital, then that might be something to take into consideration. But if you live in a major metropolitan skeleton area, the safest place you're going to be is your own home. So it's all your own germs. Right. There's nobody wiping down your space with like, the nasty germicide stuff that they have, which is what they're doing at birth centers. And then. And then you're going into that space, which is somebody else's space. The other thing that I really don't like about birth centers, and I like birth centers, I think it's a great alternative. But like, you leave a birth center typically three to four hours after you get. So when you're in the throes of labor, you have to get in a car and you have to figure out how you're going to deal with your contractions from the car ride from your house to the birth center. Then you have to get there and maybe wait for the midwife to open the door. You have to kind of get checked in there, and then you have to get back in that pattern that's the same Thing that happens when you go to the hospital, you have to ride in the car and then you have to get admitted. And typically what happens is labor slows down because your body was in this great pattern and you had all these hormones that were operating really good. And then you're like, invader. Is there somebody outside? Yeah, you know, it's literally just that simple. Like, it's literally like a fight or flight response. And so your adrenaline picks up and then that usually decreases the oxytocin and all of that. And then you give birth and then you're there and then you have to get your butt that just pushed the baby out three to four hours afterwards that's bleeding. And you have a brand newborn baby that you're strapping into a car seat, which really should just be on your chest. Skin to skin at home. Drive yourself home and then get re cozy again, if you will.
- [59:07]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [59:08]
Lindsay Mihalis
So, I mean, again, I. I'm not saying that birth centers are bad. I think that it's a great alternative. A lot of insurance companies will pay for birth center as opposed to home birth. So it's just one of those things that, like, that's sometimes what people can afford. But every time I've been approached to do a birth center, to, you know, create a business with a birth center, I turn it down just because I'm like, nope, that's not where I.
- [59:29]
Real Foodology Host
That's not the environment.
- [59:30]
Lindsay Mihalis
I want home birth where I can tuck you into your bed and give you all of the instructions and say, I'll see you back here in a few days with your baby still skin to skin and you're in your bed for the next five days is what I feel most comfortable with.
- [59:41]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, I mean, that makes so much sense. I mean, because also I'm. I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place with all this, personally, because I'm also terrified, if I'm being honest, to give birth in a hospital. I have heard so many horror stories. Women go in, they have a plan that they want to stick to, and then the plan. And we can never make a plan and like, have it go exactly how we want it.
- [60:02]
Lindsay Mihalis
Tis is life.
- [60:03]
Real Foodology Host
Exactly. But in a hospital setting, it is way more likely to go haywire. And I feel like in the hospital, once you get in that system, it's just you're in lockstep and it's so much harder unless if you really have someone strong advocating for you to not just be in the boom, boom, boom.
- [60:21]
Lindsay Mihalis
Boom, but then you're fighting like you Know, like, if you're still in the fight or flight, because even if, like, you, like, say it's your husband that's advocating for you.
- [60:28]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [60:28]
Lindsay Mihalis
Like, then where is he supporting you? You know what I mean? Like. Like he's fighting a system of everything that you don't want. So that's why I always say to. To women, I'm like, if you want to have a birth that is natural, and you want to have the least amount of intervention and you want to have individualized care, you have to separate yourself from the system, because the system is not made for that. The system isn't broken. The system is working exactly the way that it's intended to work. So if you're seeking something, something outside of that system, then it has to be somebody that's aligned with what you think. And not all midwives are created equal either. You know, when you're looking for somebody that's providing individualized care, like, there's a lot of different opinions within the midwifery community. A lot of different opinions. And so you want to make sure that you're finding a midwife that aligns with your core values. And so that includes, like, what it. What it is that you want. Are they going to actually provide you with individualized care? Because anytime that you have a care provider, there is the opportunity to put that care provider on a pedestal, and then you end up with that same crap that they have in the hospital. Like, care provider is God. And so, like, will your care provider let you listen to your intuition? Is that what's most important to them? Are they going to, you know, kind of oversee your care and tell you this is how they do things? Like, there's just so many different things that you have to consider when you. When you think about one of the most sacred experiences of your whole life.
- [61:44]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. I heard a horror story once. It was a. Well, I. I watched her talk about this on Instagram. It was a friend of a friend. And she goes watch her stories right now. This is insane. And essentially she was having a home birth with him. I think she had a midwife and a doula, if I remember correctly. And she was laboring for a long time. I think she was laboring for, like, almost two days. And she kept telling the midwife, like, I think I need to go. I need to go to the hospital. I need to go to the hospital. And. And they. I don't. This story is so insane to me. Apparently they told her that they called the hospital and the hospital said that they were full and they couldn't take.
- [62:22]
Lindsay Mihalis
Her, which can happen.
- [62:24]
Real Foodology Host
But get this, her mother in law called the hospital and they were like, what are you talking about? We have plenty of beds. And there. And what ended up happening is, thank God everything was okay. But she just ultimately had the most traumatic.
- [62:37]
Lindsay Mihalis
Of course she did, because she was heard, she wasn't listened to.
- [62:41]
Real Foodology Host
Well, and, and what happened was I don't remember what her medical emerg emergency was, but she had some sort of emergency where she actually did need medical care, of course.
- [62:50]
Lindsay Mihalis
And her body was telling, and her.
- [62:52]
Real Foodology Host
Body was telling her.
- [62:53]
Lindsay Mihalis
And remember, it's a dynamic experience between both. So anytime that I'm in those situations, I'm not. It's not just the mom, it's the baby as well. And the babies will give us signs. If I ever had a mom that said that she wanted to go, I mean, okay, in transition, right before you're gonna push a baby out, like everybody says, I can't do this. Take me to the hospital. That's, that's normal. Like, like that's. I hear that almost every single time. Maybe not necessarily take me to the hospital, but I can't do this. Right? And then, and then it's like, oh, yes you can. Anytime somebody says that, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're going to have a baby in five minutes. But like, if it's a long, drawn out labor and there's other things going on and the mom keeps saying that she needs to go hospital, my gosh, I would never, ever, ever doubt a mom's intuition. That's the most important thing. So again, coming back to, you have to make sure that you're selecting the right care provider. Now I will tell you that the politics of all of this has made it hard for midwives to transfer to the hospital. So when, you know, I've been doing this since, gosh, for 21 years now. And just recently, like, I mean, I don't care anymore. Like, you know, I used to get offended by what people would say to me and now I'm like, give me a freaking break. Like, this is not happening. Let me talk to your supervisor. But just recently, in November, I had a situation where a nurse I had had to bring somebody into the hospital. There was definitely a medical emergency that was happening. She wasn't even in labor. And the nurse said, well, let me talk to the doctor. And I said, no, you're the closest hospital. We're coming in. We need to be somewhere within a relatively fast period of time. And they called me back. And they said, well, we don't want to take you here. And, and I'm, I'm thinking, you guys, this is Orange County. Like, this is, this is, this was the end of 2024. Like, it is exactly against the law for anybody to turn away somebody for care. And so what I said in that moment was, there's another hospital five minutes further up the road. We're going to go there because I don't want you to be treated like crap in this hospital. But I threw a fit. And that night at 9pm I had basically the president of the hospital texting me, apologizing, saying that they had made a very big error and that would never happen again because they knew they screwed. Screwed up.
- [65:03]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah.
- [65:03]
Lindsay Mihalis
You know, and so they get sued for that. I feel like they, that's, it's very big malpractice. And so, so when it comes back to this story with your friend, like, you know, there are really sad situations where midwives are hesitant to transfer in because, you know, this is their livelihood. And if they're up against a system that's against them, then, you know, if they're turned in for something or other, then it's like they're in a court case and it's thousands of dollars. And so the system isn't set up to, to help that. But, you know, that's, that's where this initiative comes in again. This is where the, you know, Maha manifesto comes in. Like, let's bridge these gaps. Let's not have these conflicts that create oppositions for delayed care. Like, that's, that's not, that's not okay. We have one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the world. We should be at the top.
- [65:54]
Real Foodology Host
Why is that?
- [65:56]
Lindsay Mihalis
Well, we, there's, there's many reasons. I think that the most important thing that we could talk about is the health of our nation. You know, with all of us having such bad metabolic diseases, you know, would they say 93% of America has metabolic? Yeah, and so that, that's a really big issue, but it's the way that our healthcare system set up too. So you look at Canada like our, we touch Canada like our neighboring country. Our maternal mortality rate is double what Canada is. That is ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, that, that shouldn't be the case. And I, I don't think Canada is that much more metabolically healthy than they're right behind us. But, you know, you look at the statistics and it's like it's, it's safer to give birth in Cuba than it is in the United States. Why? You know, and, and so we can look at the metabolic health, but then we also have to look at what our intervention rate, our C section rate, our, you know, what, what are we giving to our babies? What are we giving to our moms? And, and so we, we could look at that in a really beautiful bright light and just say like, we're not here to cause division. We're here to fix this and make things better because our moms and babies deserve better.
- [67:07]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, absolutely. My, my thought would be is that, yeah, because we're so unhealthy, that that's probably what's driving a lot of that. That and two, I mean, like, we have been saying a lot this episode. I feel like there's no individual individualized care anymore. It's like everyone's just crossing off boxes.
- [67:23]
Lindsay Mihalis
But Canada doesn't have that. You know, you, you hear Canadians talk about how horrible their health care system is, but they have midwives. You know, like, they like, if you're getting care, if you're a low risk woman, it's cheaper for them to hire midwives to take care of you. So that individualized care comes in. I mean, even if it's big, huge facilities, you know, like, you're still getting more holistic, individualized care. And so we, we just have to like, take a step back. The World Health Organization, which I could care less about, you know, all the three letter organizations, but the World Health Organization in 2021 had a report that came out about the world, in a sense of what we're missing with midwives. And they said that there we are short 900,000 midwives in the world. And that, you know, midwives can be the ones that I, I always say we're the original family doctors. So we cared for women through labor and birth and pregnancy and all that. But then we be kind of became the wise woman in the village that was the pediatrician. And we would, if someone was sick, they would come to us because we knew the herbs and different things to give. And then when you work with birth, you also work with death. It's the same door. You're just leaving and coming. It's different energies. And so the midwives were always the ones that were, you know, in that space. And so when we took that out, it, it really changed the way that our wise woman, you know, centered care is throughout the whole world. And so the fact that the World Health Organization recognized that is huge. Yeah, it's, it's a really important piece that they said that there was 900,000 midwives that were short. I mean, I was licensed in California and, you know, there's only like a thousand midwives that have been licensed in the last 20 years. Like, how is that possible? California's huge.
- [69:11]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. My hope is that there's going to be more. I feel like there's such a resurgence of women wanting to do it more naturally, wanting to have a midwife and a doula. And, and how does that work? So if you're birthing at home, you have to have a midwife and then a doula is like optional, right?
- [69:26]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. So the midwife is there for your medical care. So, you know, they're the ones that here in the state of California, like, I can do your blood work and I can do ultrasounds and I can take care of you throughout the whole pregnancy without having anybody else there. I can, I can really act as an individualized care provider for not. You don't need to do anything else. I can refer out for certain things if we need to. And a doula is there purely for physical and emotional support. So they're not doing any of the medical stuff. So it's, it's. I mean, I always bring like my doula self with me. You know, I'm always giving that physical and emotional support. But having a doula as part of the team is always such a fantastic addition.
- [70:03]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. Well, I could imagine too, for first time parents, like, I can already see my fiance needing like someone there also to help with support. I love the partners.
- [70:14]
Lindsay Mihalis
Seriously, it's so nice because it's suggestions for them and then like, they, they don't feel the pressure like for all of time. I promise you, it was not a man and a woman in a cave while she was giving birth.
- [70:24]
Real Foodology Host
Oh, there was definitely like her tribe.
- [70:26]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. There was always our aunties and our sisters and, you know, everybody surrounded. If you look at elephants giving birth, there's a group of female elephants. Elephants that circle around the elephant giving birth, that stand in a circle to protect her and they sway their hips back and forth.
- [70:40]
Real Foodology Host
No, that's so cute.
- [70:41]
Lindsay Mihalis
You know, like it's, it's, that's just how it's supposed to be. So for a doula to be there for the partner is just amazing.
- [70:46]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah. I can already see Hector needing that.
- [70:49]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah.
- [70:50]
Real Foodology Host
Just because, you know, it's new time is kind of scary. So what would be your advice to someone who is concerned about the quote unquote risks of doing it at home? Home birth.
- [71:01]
Lindsay Mihalis
Do your research. There's a lot of research out there. And I wouldn't say do your research within the United States because remember, we're a for profit system. So anytime that where there's a for profit system, then you have to look at where the data errors lie. You know, where there's bias. There's a beautiful study that came out of the Netherlands that had 500,000 home births. And you know, everywhere in the world uses midwives. It's, it's really the United States that don't like Japan. Everywhere it's that midwives are at the root of care. And so you look at the, the data outside of the United States and you see it's just how it's always been. But you have to have a good built in system. You have to have a good collaboration of systems. So you know, for the story that you told me with your friend, like that sucks. That should, that's not how it should be. We should be able to just transfer into the hospital as needed. My transfer rates for someone transferring into the hospital for a non emergency situation and this, this is first time mom. So someone that hasn't given, hasn't had a vaginal birth before is about 4 to 6% any given year. And it's typically for exhaustion for someone that's already had a vaginal birth. My, my rate of transferring into the hospital is less than 1%.
- [72:13]
Real Foodology Host
Wow.
- [72:14]
Lindsay Mihalis
So. And I take low risk healthy women. I'm not taking, you know, high risk women that have, you know, cardiac issues or something like that. The majority of childbearing women should be low risk. You know, like we shouldn't have all these weird health complications in our 20s and 30s.
- [72:29]
Real Foodology Host
Yeah, I mean that's.
- [72:31]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah, yeah.
- [72:33]
Real Foodology Host
That's why we need Maha. I mean that's the thing. And, and you know, as a 40 year old woman that's hopefully going to be pregnant within the next year. I'm so tired of this narrative of. Well, it's, why does that word just. What do they call us after? 36.
- [72:45]
Lindsay Mihalis
So geriatric, advanced maternal aids.
- [72:47]
Real Foodology Host
I don't know why that just like left my brain.
- [72:49]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's horrible.
- [72:50]
Real Foodology Host
Because I don't claim that for myself.
- [72:51]
Lindsay Mihalis
No, of course not.
- [72:52]
Real Foodology Host
Because you're not exactly.
- [72:54]
Lindsay Mihalis
It's ridiculous. But the oldest client I've ever had in my practice that gave birth at home was 47 years old.
- [73:00]
Real Foodology Host
Wow.
- [73:01]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. Oh my God. It was her fifth baby and there, I mean, you know, she actually thought she was going into menopause. She has kids in high school and she's, she's like, I'M actually pregnant. I'm not in menopause, so. And she had a beautiful, beautiful birth and.
- [73:17]
Real Foodology Host
Wow. Wow.
- [73:17]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. There's risk associated with different complications in terms of genetic stuff when you're older. So, like, there's. That's the risk. Exactly. If you have a healthy baby and you remain healthy throughout your pregnancy, you're not going to have a higher risk of giving birth just because of your age. You know, nothing has changed. All the same body parts are working the same. Exactly. So it's, it's. We have to take that narrative out. The. The geriatric pregnancy is just such bs.
- [73:46]
Real Foodology Host
I mean, it's such bs. I don't claim that for myself at all. It's just, you know, it is hard. Like sometimes you hear it over and over and over again, and so it's like you're fighting a system set up against you, essentially, you know. Yeah. Well, for the essence of time, please let everyone know where they can find you.
- [74:00]
Lindsay Mihalis
Yeah. So the best place to find me is my Instagram, which is just my name, first and last name, Lindsay Meliss. And then I have a website that's called there remembering dot com. And then I also would just launched this Maha mom coalition. So it's just maham coalition.com.
- [74:16]
Real Foodology Host
Yay. Thank you so much.
- [74:17]
Lindsay Mihalis
You're so welcome. This was so fun.
- [74:20]
Real Foodology Host
Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of this podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first.