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Why Fertility Is Declining: Environmental Toxins, Lifestyle & What to Do | Dr. Ann Shippy
01:08:26
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- [00:00]
A
Everybody in Austin calls you the baby whisperer.
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B
Oh, I didn't know that.
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A
If you were having any sort of issue with getting pregnant, everybody says, oh, my gosh, Ann Shippy is the woman to go to.
- [00:10]
B
I am a conventional doctor. I am an md I am an internist. But because of my own health problems, I had to search outside the box and figure out what's going on.
- [00:19]
A
What is the biggest mistake people make when they're trying to detox from mold?
- [00:23]
B
So I think about detoxing as a series of dams, and if you open the upstream dam too fast, you're going to flip blood. And so instead of actually helping the toxins to leave your body, they might just be recirculating.
- [00:41]
A
Ann, thank you so much for coming on.
- [00:43]
B
I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.
- [00:46]
A
I know. Me too. I've been looking forward to this so much. So I'd actually been hearing your name for a long time, and then our mutual friend Jason Karp invited me to your book party for your book launch, and I was like, oh, my gosh. Everybody's been telling me about Ann Shippy, that I need to get her on the podcast and to check out her book, because everybody in Austin calls you the baby whisperer.
- [01:06]
B
Oh, I didn't know that. That's so good to hear. Really?
- [01:10]
A
Oh, yeah. Everybody talks about you as the baby whisperer, where if you were having any sort of issue with getting pregnant, everybody says, oh, my gosh, Ann Shippy is the woman to go to. So I actually had you on the back burner, because when my husband and I moved to Austin, I'm 41, we didn't know how it was gonna go, obviously. And we took about six months before. And we can talk about this too, but my husband and I took about six months, tried just to really clean ourselves up. Like, we were doing sauna every day. We did protocols based on our blood work because we were working with a doctor when we were living in Denver, and we did a whole detox protocol and really just got ourselves healthy and ready before we tried to conceive. But, you know, in the back of
- [01:48]
B
my mind, I love that you knew to do that, because that's what the book is all about. Like, how to get ready for pregnancy at any age.
- [01:54]
A
Yes. Which is why I want to get.
- [01:55]
B
Yay.
- [01:56]
A
Yay.
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B
So it works, right?
- [01:57]
A
Yes. I mean, it really does. Well, I'm living proof of that. And actually, this was when we first met. This is the first thing I said to you when I came up to You. I was like, I am dying to talk to you, because I did a whole protocol. I'm 41. And we got pregnant literally on the first try, which is wild because all the statistics were working against me.
- [02:17]
B
And I love it that you're living proof to what I'm teaching about, because I really so want to give people hope that they don't need to rush into IVF and other alternative options just because they're aging, you know, over 40 or in their 30s. I have so many people that are saying that they're getting pushed into putting their eggs on ice at even, like 28 and 31.
- [02:44]
A
Yeah. Which makes me sad. What are your thoughts about that, actually, because that really. So I actually ended up doing that. I found my partner much later, which is why I. I didn't mean to wait until I was 41, but it just took me a long time to find my person. And when I was 35, I started looking into doing IV or sorry, not I freezing my eggs, because I started getting really nervous. What are your thoughts about freezing your eggs and going that route?
- [03:09]
B
Yeah, I think. I think we don't really talk about the implications of the process that you go through to be able to harvest eggs. And unfortunately, I think a lot of the clinics that are doing the egg harvesting and IVF don't really prepare women or really help them to understand what the risks are. So. And there aren't really good studies to map it out for women, unfortunately. So it's really a trade off that every woman has to make. But I would encourage doing this work to keep your body super healthy and go that road a little bit slower. I have a patient right now who had gone through a similar situation. She wasn't quite ready to have children yet, hadn't met her partner, and was in her mid-30s. And she came to see me about an hour or about a year after doing the egg harvesting, and she just hadn't felt quite right. The whole process of pushing the body so hard left her with irregular cycles and not feeling like herself. So it had really disrupted her whole HPA access. And I'm optimistic that we're going to get her back on track at helped other people. But it just, you know, front and center is showing me what can happen. And then I also have a patient who. She came to see me after she had done ivf, and she did end up with a little girl who's three, but it really caused her endometriosis to get very severe going through that process. And the endometriosis Got so bad, it infiltrated into her ureter in her kidney, and she had to have her kidney removed.
- [05:02]
A
Oh, wow.
- [05:03]
B
So these things aren't.
- [05:05]
A
They don't come without risks.
- [05:06]
B
They don't come without risks. Losing a kidney is not a common thing. But I do, you know, she and I are both suspicious that that is a big part of what caused things to get so severe. Because of the timing of things.
- [05:19]
A
Yeah. And this is why I love so much the work that you do. Because, you know, if you think about it, if you zoom out from the conventional medical perspective, they tell you that we don't have any other options. You know, they just say, oh, well, you know, if. If you're struggling to get pregnant, we're just going to have to pump you full of hormones and immediately direct you to ivf. And actually, I have a close girlfriend who's actually going through this right now, where she was dealing with two years of infertility, has done every single test under the sun, has. You know, her and her partner have detox, they've done sperm tests. They did all this stuff. Everything, probably literally everything that it says in your book, turns out she just had endometriosis and literally had a blocked fallopian tub. And when she found that out, and by the way, her conventional doctors were pushing her to go to ivf, and when she found that out, this doctor said, even if you had done ivf, it probably, most likely, definitely would have failed. And so it's so sad to me that women are automatically just pushed into ivf. And this is why I love the work that you're doing, because you're having conversations and you're sitting down with couples and going, okay, well, let's eliminate every other possible scenario. First, let's make sure that your sperm is healthy. Let's make sure that your hormones are on track. What are some of the things that you're seeing with couples that are coming in that are dealing with infertility that you're able to turn around?
- [06:39]
B
Yeah, there's usually some source of inflammation and toxicity. So I. With patients in the clinic, I like to do a lot of testing. So we look for environmental toxins, including toxic mold, which I know that you're familiar with.
- [06:54]
A
Unfortunately, yes.
- [06:55]
B
Unfortunately, we look for nutritional deficiencies, we look for mitochondrial dysfunction. We look for whether there's some genetic predisposition going on. What's going on with autoimmunity is your thyroid balance. There's so many things that we can look for, and usually we can find some combination of things. It's not usually just one thing that's going on. It's kind of the body's hit the perfect storm. But what's so exciting is even if somebody like this applies for men as well, like if they have a very low testosterone or the sperm counts are super low, we can help the body to get back into balance. And then when our bodies are in balance, we get super fertile. Like the. We're really built to create life. And, and so there's. I think that's one of the exciting things about this idea about the, the mixing, the geriatric pregnancy, because that you're like, if you just think about things in the scheme of things in your 40s, in every other way, you're still in the prime of your life.
- [08:04]
A
Yes.
- [08:05]
B
Why would we even attach the word geriatric or make women feel any less than this vibrant creator of life that they are?
- [08:18]
A
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- [10:31]
B
Best.
- [10:31]
A
This is one of the few daily habits I actually stick with because it's two gummies. Not another pill, not another powder, not another. You need a blender for this situation. They're also sugar free and they legitimately taste really good. I keep them next to my coffee so I don't forget, which I would. Otherwise they're sugar free. Like I said, they're vegan, they're non GMO, and they're backed by over 15 years of research in mitochondrial health. So it's science first, not hype first support your cells and how you age with Mito Pure gummies from timeline. Visit timeline.comrealfoodology and save up to 39% off your Mitopure gummies. That's timeline.comreal foodology why do you think that conventional medicine just calls pregnancy after 35 geriatric instead of actually looking to get to the root cause? I mean, I guess I kind of know the answer because they don't look for the root cause. But why are we not treating this as bio individual care?
- [11:28]
B
Exactly. No. Super well said. And I think that's really, you know, that's for me. I am a conventional doctor, I am an md. I am an internist. But because of my own health problems, I had to search outside the box because traditional allopathic medicine let me down. And so I had to use my chemical engineering brain to start looking at systems and how we can run our little mini experiments and figure out what's going on. Whereas most physicians kind of have the box that they have, the tools that they have in their toolbox are limited. So I do think these conversations are somewhat threatening for most reproductive endocrinologists or Fertility doctors, because they don't have these tools in the toolbox. They don't know how to look at the toxin levels and help somebody to detoxify sacred safely. They don't know how to rebuild the mitochondria. They don't know how to heal the microbiome. They're not the tools that they have in the toolbox. So we have to really bring the best of both worlds. Like sometimes IVF is necessary.
- [12:33]
A
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Thank God it exists, right?
- [12:36]
B
Right.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah.
- [12:37]
B
But even if you do need IVF doing this work, the 3, 6, 12, 36 months before you go through that process, you will have a higher likelihood of having success and then having a healthier baby. This whole field of epigenetics, how the egg and the sperm, the how those genes are being influenced up and down, is like this whole exploding field of discovery that we can dramatically change the health of the future baby. And that's why what you've done is so exciting. Like you've put in the work to really help give your child the best chance of not having these things that we're seeing be part of this children's health crisis that we have. By having done the detox, built your mitochondria, have a healthy microbiome, all of these things, and building up the nutrient stores in your body so that you can be a good baby factory, your baby's less likely to have all the things that we're seeing with these children today. The increase in the autism, the mental health, the autoimmunity, the cancer. By having the egg and the sperm be super healthy, those epigenetic markers that dial the genes up and down can have a traumatic impact. So good job.
- [14:05]
A
Thank you. Well, I'm very, I'm very grateful to my mom because my mom is the one that put me on this track. She's the one that really, she was making everything from scratch. When I was a kid, you know, living at home and started learning about, I mean, I, I joke about this, I just think it's so funny. She came to visit me one time when I was in college and this had to have been, let's see, it would have been like 2004. 2004. This is how early my mom was to all of this. She made me throw away all my Teflon nonstick pants. Yeah, right. Go mom. I'm like a 17 year old unaware. And she comes in and she's like, oh, like, literally that day, like took me to Target and bought me stainless steel pans and was like, do not Use those non stick Teflon pans.
- [14:48]
B
I love, love that your mom did that.
- [14:50]
A
I know. So amazing. And I'm so grateful because everything that we're learning now, and I want to dive a little bit more into this notion of geriatric pregnancy because in my mind as a woman, this gives me a lot of hope, actually, this whole conversation that we're having because, you know, a of women are waiting to have kids or they're taking longer. A lot of my girlfriends are, they just haven't been able to find their partner yet and they're deferring, you know, having children a lot later. And then everybody's feeling like they have to freeze their eggs and they're pushed into this corner or they're hearing really scary statistics, as I was too, that, you know, the older you get, the harder it is to get pregnant. And I just kept holding in my mind, okay, I'm just going to stay and be as healthy as I can, so until I find my partner, hopefully it will preserve and keep my fertility intact. And it did. And I think we need to be telling women more about this. So tell us a little bit about what you wrote in the book and what you're actually seeing in your practice. How this is true.
- [15:49]
B
This is what my patients have taught me. I've learned so much by what my patients, what their experiences are. So having had patients who had even failed ivf, right, they did not multiple rounds of ivf. One patient in particular could not get another IVF doctor to do another round because they were like, well, the results have been so terrible. She was mid-30s and so she came to see me and we found a bunch of things. We found that she had some hidden autoimmune thyroid and she had some microbiome issues and some nutrient deficiencies. Did some work for about six months and then she got pregnant naturally.
- [16:36]
A
Amazing.
- [16:37]
B
And they were still kind of in that mode of thinking that they weren't going to get pregnant easily. And so she got pregnant again while she was still nursing.
- [16:46]
A
Oops.
- [16:47]
B
Oops. And that was with twins.
- [16:51]
A
Oh, wow.
- [16:52]
B
And then after the twins, they still had kind of been in that mode of like not being that careful because they had. So anyway, they ended up with four very quick, very close together after being told to adopt. So situations like that where mid-30s, even mid-40s having had problems before, a lot of times, you know, people will come to see me because they have autoimmune issues or other things going on. And then after we've done the work to help reverse the autoimmune diseases or other things. Oops. They don't believe me that they need to be more careful about getting pregnant and they end up with more children than they were expected. So even with people that have had issues with infertility and have had autoimmunity and have had issues, when the body gets into balance, it really wants to create life.
- [17:58]
A
Yeah. Well, the healthier you are, though, the better your fertility is. Just because that's our natural state. The body wants to be healthy. And when the body's healthy and everything is functioning correctly, fertility is going to function as it. As it's supposed to.
- [18:13]
B
So I like to think about infertility as it's just letting you know the check engine line is on. Like, it doesn't mean that you don't have a good car and. Or that it can't be repaired. It's just saying, hey, look underneath the hood and see what's going on and let's get things rolling again before you get pregnant. So I feel like a lot of times what IVF is doing is just pushing the body when it's already saying, hey, wait, there's something going on that we need to address.
- [18:41]
A
So what are some of the biggest things that you find that are really helping couples? So let's say, you know, for me, for example, let's say, you know, this was a year ago and I'm knowing that I'm going to want to start trying within the next, you know, year, maybe six months. What would be your advice to somebody before they've even tried and know if they have any sort of problem? What are things they could prep their body? They're in their. Your partners.
- [19:02]
B
Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that we're facing today is our unintended exposure to environmental toxins.
- [19:09]
A
Yeah.
- [19:10]
B
Like, it's even being fairly careful with what we're eating and our air quality, water quality, all of these things. Most of us can't quite keep up with that. So those toxins build up in our body a little bit. So I really like, for both men and women, this is so important for men too, to do a period of very gentle, safe detox. So there are certain supplements like liposomal glutathione and some binders helping with methylation just can really help to get that load down in the body and then to do some rebuilding with things like phosphatidylcholine, which are great for both men and women for fertility, brain health, all kinds of things, and then feed our mitochondria. So the supplements that can help our mitochondria, the little organelles inside the cells that work so hard to give us energy. So special forms of CoQ10 like MitoQ, CoQ10, Carnitine, there's a whole list of things. And then to clean up the environment, to get the healthiest, cleanest food that we can, to drink the cleanest water that we can, to run things like air filters, at least at night when we're sleeping, so that we can lessen the load. And this is important for babies, for children anyway, because when they come into the world, their detox pathways aren't fully developed and they need a clean environment to thrive. I think that it's their early exposures to things, what they're already born with can set them up for issues with autism and other. Their health issues. So the cleaner we can have things for them, the better.
- [20:53]
A
Yeah, I love this. And would you recommend everybody gets tested for mthfr?
- [20:58]
B
Absolutely.
- [20:59]
A
Because that's. Yeah, I've been diving more into that and I just feel like everybody. I feel like this should just be a test that everybody tests their baby for when they're born.
- [21:09]
B
So I really like to do a test. And it's all covered in the book too. On the there are multiple methylation genes, so MTHFR is one and there's several others, mtrr C. So what's really so fun to do? My chemical engineering brain loves looking at these multiple steps in the methylation pathway. So homocysteine and several others that ultimately help us to make glutathione, which is one of the main things that we make in our body to help us to be able to detoxify, that often gets depleted. So looking at that whole pathway along with the genetics so we can see what things we can be doing to optimize our methylation and that's so important for fertility.
- [21:54]
A
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- [25:21]
B
And by, I think at some point we will test babies as they, maybe even before they're born or as they're coming in with a whole bunch of different genes, like looking at the methylation genes and then other detox genes. So we know, you know, how much support their body's gonna need from a deto standpoint and what things could be safe for them, even medication wise in the future. As well as inflammation genes and coagulation genes, there's all kinds of things that just knowing in advance can help us to make better decisions as parents.
- [25:57]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So you brought up epigenetics, which is one of my favorite topics to talk about. I love it so much. And I'm curious to know what does epigenetics say about how can, how are babies genes affected by the health of mom and dad and how can that also affect their fertility for the future?
- [26:18]
B
This is such an exciting, evolving field and I, this is really why I wrote the book because those three to 36 months before and between pregnancies can have such an important impact to the health of the baby. So it's easier to study in sperm than it is to study in eggs. So some of the men's studies are even.
- [26:41]
A
Why is that?
- [26:42]
B
Well, just because it's easier to collect sperm than it is to collect an egg.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah, it's kind of invasive to get an egg.
- [26:49]
A
Yeah, that's fair.
- [26:51]
B
Sperm, pretty easy. So epigenetics for men I think is so empowering for them to know that they can actually have more of a role than what they're being told that they have. Just deliver some sperm here, please. But for them to know, hey, by making an effort for at least three months before trying to conceive can dramatically affect the health of the baby is so exciting. So it turns out that even whether they're exercising, building muscle dials certain genes up and down that can reduce the risk of the child to have obesity.
- [27:30]
A
Oh, it's fascinating.
- [27:32]
B
I know.
- [27:33]
A
Wow. I'm so glad that my husband lifts weights. I'm like, go, dad, go.
- [27:38]
B
And then a whole lot of these environmental toxins, like the pfas, the bpas, the pesticides.
- [27:46]
A
Glyphosate.
- [27:46]
B
The glyphosate, they also can influence the gene expression and then affect not only the. The your baby, but then future generations as to their fertility, their chance of getting obesity, their risk for all kinds of things can be impacted by basically the environment that the sperm is being produced. And we know that some of these toxins even get passed on with the ejaculate. So it's not that they're just. That these toxins are just going through. They're also building up in the body and they're getting into the different. Different fluids in the body. So, again, it's kind of exciting. It's a little overwhelming when you're first getting started. We also know that alcohol and other substances can impact the health of the baby. So it's really great if the dad's willing to not drink or do other substances in that preconception period and then blood sugar control. So I love for people to use the continuous glucose monitors in this preconception time, both the men and the women, to get that blood sugar as dialed in and as stable as possible, because that can help the baby to have less risk for diabetes and obesity and other metabolic syndrome issues. Isn't that. It makes sense and it's so exciting. There's even some data that shows it's good to deal with trauma. So that stress response and the. The baby in the body can also affect some of the epigenetics. So if you've had a big trauma, it's a good idea to find some kind of modality that you feel good about with clearing that and EMDR or neurofeedback meditation, those kinds of things can make a huge difference.
- [29:33]
A
Wow. It's so interesting. Everything that we're learning about just how much. Just how much our health and. Yeah, overall. Yeah, our overall health can affect our babies. I mean, I just. Epigenetics, when I first discovered it, like many things in health, I feel like you can use it to either scare you or you can choose to either let it empower you or let it scare you. And I've always. Everything I've learned about health is just like, I just keep getting more and more empowered because the more and more we learn, the more I realize that, yes, there will always be things in life that you can't control. But it's what I love so much about epigenetics. Is that, that you. We learn that we actually really have so much control over the health of our bodies.
- [30:14]
B
Yeah. So, you know, I know that there are people listening to your podcast that have had to go through IVF or, you know, they've dealt with infertility, and a lot of times they feel really, they feel a lot of shame or blame around it. And I definitely, like, I, I want to be really careful about the conversation and how people feel about it because a lot this, this information isn't even available to most doctors, like, even in the medical field. I think a very small percentage of doctors have actually read the research on epigenetics and definitely not the IVF docs. Like, if they did, they would be saying, wait, go do this work beforehand to better your chances. Better your chances and really to help your future child be healthier. So I don't like, this is new emerging data and we're needing to put it together before there's time to do a 10 year study on it.
- [31:22]
A
Right.
- [31:22]
B
Like, we, there's enough evidence that we can really take action and start to improve this children's health crisis. Like, if I was having my kids right now, I'd be very alarmed and very afraid. With the autism rate being 1 in 31 children nationwide, 1 in 22 in California and 75% of them boys. Like, I have two boys. Yeah, like, it would be, It'd be scary to think about the, you know, rolling the dice, especially, you know, having. I've got the detox gene issues, I've got methylation issues, I've got all the things. So I want it to be hopeful. Like, I see people with all of these issues. You know, we see the high environmental toxin low. We see the microbiome imbalance, the mitochondria not working well. And we can reverse it.
- [32:18]
A
Yes. Yeah. I mean, I know not in all cases, but I know with autism, I have seen some cases in which they were able to do really deep detox, get the heavy metals out, clean up their microbiome, where they were able to reverse at least some of their symptoms and make their life easier for some of them.
- [32:37]
B
Yes, absolutely. And some of them fully.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, well, and I've seen, yeah, I've seen a lot of cool cases of that. What do you think is contributing to the high rates of autism? I have my thoughts, but I want to know what your thoughts are, because from my understanding, it seems to be multifaceted. It seems more like it's an assault on our bodies, not necessarily just one particular thing.
- [32:59]
B
That's exactly. I mean we have clues on associations and we have to put that together. Right. If we keep this escalating rate like it's going to be too late for humanity, right?
- [33:14]
A
Yeah, well it's really going to be really concerning.
- [33:16]
B
Yeah.
- [33:17]
A
And just to be really clear, I'm more specifically talking about, I'm not talking about somebody that's just a little bit on the spectrum and they're really smart. The autistic cases that I'm particularly concerned about are the ones where they're non verbal. The parents are really struggling because the babies are scratching them, they can't talk, they're having to wear diapers into their 20s. They're hitting their heads on the wall. It's very hard on not only the child but the parents as well. And it's something that we owe to these families to figure out.
- [33:50]
B
I agree.
- [33:51]
A
Yeah.
- [33:53]
B
So I think it's genetics meets epigenetics, makes environmental toxins. And I, you know, that's just with what I've seen with the patients that I've worked with, it's a small part of my practice. I don't have a huge amount but with the, with the kids that I've worked with there's usually been an accumulation of toxins, probably some epigenetic factors from parents, methylation issues, detox issues and increased inflammation genes. So part of it seems to be the, the body's response to having these toxins built up in their bodies and then creating a lot of inflammation that then and especially the gut brain connection and disruptions in the microbiome. So pretty much all of these kids have some combination of those things which, and then sometimes some autoimmunity part of it. Now there's some, also some data around folate receptor antibodies which has been an interesting. Got a little, little four year old nonverbal patient that oh gosh, she's so precious that we were starting to see some improvement with addressing all of these things. So it's, we're very dental with her and, and making little incremental steps. But I've gone from where she wasn't potty trained to now being she can go grab somebody's hands. She's starting to interact with her siblings and yeah, so we're, it's still kind of early in the process but it's so exciting to see this resilience that exists in, in, in humans and especially in children that when their bodies are really being given what they need and not being overwhelmed by the things in the environment their bodies respond so beautifully.
- [35:59]
A
That's really cool. Oh, that's what a gift that you get to work with clients like that and you can see real results that are really genuinely helping people.
- [36:07]
B
Yeah. I'm so lucky.
- [36:09]
A
I know.
- [36:10]
B
Get to do what I do.
- [36:11]
A
Very cool.
- [36:12]
B
And, and I mean, it's so much work to be my patient. There's testing involved, there's changing your diet, there's changing your lifestyle, there's taking supplements, sometimes doing IVs, sometimes doing things like hyperbaric, sometimes stem cells. It's a lot of work. But I'm so lucky to get to do this beautiful collaboration with my patients and get to see what resonates with them and help them put the puzzle pie.
- [36:44]
A
Yeah.
- [36:46]
B
Really trust their bodies again. And I'm, I'm so lucky that I've had these health run ins with my own body so that, so that you know what to do and so that I can hold that faith in.
- [36:59]
A
Oh, yeah. Too. Yeah.
- [37:00]
B
And hope that when we put enough of the puzzle pieces together, their bodies will respond accordingly. I just, I just had a follow up with the. I call him a young man, he's 35. And this afternoon actually before the. And he, you know, I think he was kind of starting to lose faith in his body. He'd gone through a lot in the last 15 years and had to depend on some medications just to get him through. And we found some things that really have helped him to start to trust his body again and they're just starting to, to try to conceive. So I'm really excited for him. You know, his testosterone had been nothing, you know, in his 20s and so he had gone on testosterone, but now his, his own production's coming up and he's being able to get off of the antidepressants and, and what a gift to get to come in to be a dad when you're actually feeling good in your body rather than kind of dragging through life and feeling like you, you know, don't have the tools that you need to, to feel good.
- [38:14]
A
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- [40:10]
B
Even in your 80s.
- [40:11]
A
Exactly, exactly.
- [40:13]
B
Like you should still feel pretty good.
- [40:15]
A
Yes.
- [40:15]
B
Even in your 80s.
- [40:16]
A
And you shouldn't be on 10 plus medications in your 80s. Yeah, our bodies were not meant to function that way. Yeah, you just have to give your body the right resources. So I want to talk a little bit about mold because I know this is something that you're very passionate about. And I wouldn't say necessarily I'm passionate about it, but I'm currently it's resonating with me a lot. Well, I'm passionate about it in the way that I want to spread awareness. Now that I've gone through this whole situation, it is, wow, how common is mold illness and why is it still dismissed in conventional medicine?
- [40:53]
B
So we have a problem with how we're building buildings now. We're basically taking mold food and we're building tight containers to save energy and. And then we've lost the art of building. Like buildings used to breathe and dehumidify on just the way that they were being built. But in the 70s they started building things tight to Conserve energy. And then so many things just aren't done well. Now with buildings, the flashings are not. Like, you need a lot of detail to waterproof a shower to make sure that a chimney doesn't leak. Like all these things and that attention to detail is just not even happening. I just had a patient today with the $5 million home that multiple things weren't done properly. Like, it turns out that 90% of the windows weren't flashed properly, the showers weren't sealed and then there had been a leak during construction that never would. Like, they should have pulled up the, the wood on the second story when something leaked and they just covered it up. So a lot of times it's that just the building materials and the attention to detail, even in, like, homes that people are paying a lot of money for. And then the humidity issues that are having, we're having with the AC systems being oversized or not being designed properly. One of my kids had an issue with that during college. They had put an air conditioning system into a duplex that was like twice the size of what it needed to be. So the, the humidity was just constantly running high because the air, the AC was hardly running. So there's so many things with building science that need to be reworked and probably look at different. Some different materials too, because a lot of times there's mold spores already present in the drywall. All. And then we're not taught about mold in medical school other than it can cause infections in immunocompromised people. We, we are not taught that it's one of the most toxic producing substances on the planet. So some of these molds make. The materials that they make in their metabolism are used for biological warfare.
- [43:19]
A
Wow.
- [43:20]
B
Or immunosuppressants for people that have had transplants. There's something called mycophenolic acid that will basically suppress the immune system. So we're just not taught it. So the only way that doctors actually learn about the toxic effects of mold is if they go and decide to learn about it on their own. Or they're like me. I mean, I had to start learning about it because I had ALS, like September symptoms about 16 years ago. It was just as mold was just kind of even coming onto the landscape in functional medicine. And now we know that it can be one of the triggers for autism, it can be a trigger for infertility, it can be a trigger for early cognitive decline. So it's one of the causes of Alzheimer's. It can even be a trigger for, for autoimmunity. Inflammatory bowel disease. So many things and there's so many different chemicals that mold makes that it can be that you're in one place and you have a mold situation and you have no symptoms or when you know a collection of symptoms, you move to someplace else and you have a different set of symptoms like I can attest to as well.
- [44:37]
A
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna get into my whole story because I actually can't talk about a lot of it right now because we're probably going to end up in a lawsuit with our landlords. But we found toxic black mold in our place in January. And actually this is something you and I were talking about right before we started recording. How amazing. Looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, I cannot even believe that we were able to get pregnant because we got pregnant. Actually, you know what, it's interesting. We think we got pregnant right, like literally the week before we move to Austin into that place. So we weren't actually living in it then. But it is pretty wild that I was able to actually keep this pregnancy knowing that we were being exposed to this toxic black mold. We probably just got exposed. It was probably just early on enough that I was able to get through it, and then I started having symptoms.
- [45:25]
B
Well, and it's probably because you do so many things to help your body detoxify and help your immune system that you don't even realize. So you're, you know, super clean diet, you're minimizing the other toxins, toxins that you're getting exposed to. I don't know what your supplement stack is, but there are probably lots of things that really support your mitochondria and support your body to work well. And that kind of gets back to. None of us do things perfectly. Like I color, I know I'm exposing myself to color my hair. Right. So there are things where we can't control, but we need to control the things that we can. So great that you've moved and gotten out of the situation and then supported your body so beautifully. But if you like, I think that's the message to your, to the people listening is if you've had any leaks, if you have had high, you know, running over 50% humidity in your environment and you have anything health going on, it's good to check and see if there's mold. And you know, often it's hidden. Like you don't even know that the flashings on the window aren't working or there's a little leak behind the dishwasher, things like that. And then just. It's probably a good idea to test when you can.
- [46:43]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. What are, what are their. What are some of the common. Well, maybe not even common symptoms. What are some of the symptoms that you have seen that were connected to mold, that people may not actually be making the connection in their head to be. To it being mold?
- [46:58]
B
Yeah, it can just be an upregulated immune system. So when I started learning about histamine intolerance and mast cell activation. So that's like having headaches and running a little red and feeling a little brain fog, maybe a little bit of abdominal bloat. Are the most common things with. With the histamine issues. They're so non specific. Right. You just like. Like there's nothing specific to point to that's made that Always when I hear that combination of things, I always want to do the. The mycotoxin test to see what the level of toxin exposure is.
- [47:36]
A
I feel like at this point I've heard so many wild stories of wild symptoms that I feel like at this point, if you're having any sort of symptom that has gone longer than maybe a month and that you can't pinpoint to. I would just test for mycotoxins because, I mean, I heard one about a little baby's hair was falling out. Like it looked like she had alopecia and turns out she was just sleeping in a moldy room. I've heard literal going crazy. Like somebody I know said that they were living in a moldy home and all of her children were acting like they were going crazy, like actually going crazy and having neurological symptoms, which we also know is a symptom of being exposed to mold.
- [48:16]
B
So that's probably pans pandas kind of symptoms. So the neuropsychiatric encephalopathy and that. Yes. If your child is having any of those kinds of symptom symptoms, you have to check for. For mold.
- [48:30]
A
Yeah. Oh, man. I just hate how common it is now.
- [48:34]
B
Yeah. Part of my warning sign when I first had my run in with mold is I had. Was just. My hair was just falling out in clumps. I had so much pain in my body. But I did. My kids were little at the time. Time I didn't like just even getting a hug from them was painful, so I couldn't wear heels. Like my feet were so painful. So it can really show up differently for different people. But it is such a common problem these days that my preference is that everybody checks at least once a year so that they're not surprised and have to actually get super sick that they can be proactive in preventing.
- [49:11]
A
Yeah. Wow. What is the biggest mistake people make when they're trying to detox from mold?
- [49:18]
B
Oh, that's such a good question. So I don't like to focus on the mistakes. I like to focus on the positive.
- [49:26]
A
Well, that makes sense. Or you can also say what is the best way to. But I just was thinking, what can we do to avoid. So because I heard it's hard to
- [49:34]
B
detox from it, I really think that most people do great with supporting their own detox pathways better. So things like liposomal glutathione doing some good binders, I guess the biggest mistake was, is maybe to push it too fast. So I think about detoxing as a series of dams. And if you open the upstream dam too fast, you're going to flood. And so instead of actually helping the toxins to leave your body, they might just be recirculating. And so just doing it gently. I think more isn't necessarily better on the detox. So taking the supplements that support each part of the dam, including taking a look at methylation pathways, is super helpful. And then I love things like we have a clay and detox pad that we carry in the office medi detox. I love infrared saunas. Hyperbarics can be awesome. And then we do some ivy, these phosphatidylcholine and NAD that just are like sending the cells through a car wash. So if somebody's having pretty significant symptoms, it can help them get their head above water and open those spigots more gently to get the toxins out.
- [50:51]
A
Oh, wow. What is. If you're allowed to tell any of these stories, what is maybe one or two of your favorite stories that you had of people coming in and really struggling with their health, Whether or not. Whether it's infertility or maybe mold toxin or something that was unexplained that you were able to help them with.
- [51:09]
B
One of my older patients is popping to mind.
- [51:12]
A
I love that probably the audience is probably meant to hear it.
- [51:15]
B
Then I mentioned, well, we have this fear around aging. Right. Like, and there's this, especially for women, I think a lot of times the message that they get from their physician is, oh, that's probably just because you're getting older.
- [51:31]
A
I hate when doctors say that.
- [51:32]
B
It makes me so much and acceptable.
- [51:34]
A
Yes.
- [51:36]
B
So one of my patients is in her mid-80s and her. It was actually her grandson who came to See me first. And he actually had these crazy parasites that we figured out. He ate a lot of sushi and had done a lot of traveling. He was right around 30, and, you know, he was. He really thought he was dying, so we got him tuned up. And then his mom came and. And she was just really feeling. She was in her mid-50s and just feeling like she was just hitting a wall with the whole aging thing. Just brain fog, not having much energy. And they actually did have some mold in their house, got her on track. And then the grandson was like, I want my grandmother to come. So that was like, oh, my gosh. It was. And so she really. She was feeling like she had some pretty significant cognitive decline, like, wasn't winning at bridge anymore. She had a lot of pain in her body, wasn't able to get down on the floor and pick things up and just really down. And we found that she had an undiagnosed gluten sensitivity even at 85. Right. And some things with her microbiome, some nutrient deficiencies. And the last time that she was in, I guess it's been about nine. Nine months ago now. So it's something in there. She sweating a bridge again. She's got her brain back. So fun doing everything independently, not driving, but everything else, and good energy. She's, you know, cooking and doing all these things. And I happened to drop something on the way out, and she picked it up before I could.
- [53:38]
A
Wow.
- [53:39]
B
That. That so inspired me that Even in your mid-80s, it's possible to heal from these things that aren't supposed to have good answers. So we definitely, like, it makes sense to take a look at what's out of balance in the body and then address the things that we can find and then see how the body can come along. Even when, I mean, that would be called advanced. Advanced age. Right. So even at advanced ages, your body has a tremendous capacity to heal.
- [54:14]
A
I love hearing that story so much because a lot of what I talk about on this podcast. Podcast is, you know, it's because, you know, I get questions all the time for. People say, well, you're going to die anyways. Like, why go through the effort? And I always tell people is that because I don't believe that we're inherently meant to just break down, be sick, be fatigued, and then just be on all this medication. When we're in our 80s or 90s, I'm looking to the future going, I want to have energy for my kids, my grandkids, kids. I want to feel good for as long As I can on this planet. And I don't believe that it's inherently just a part of our aging process to feel bad.
- [54:54]
B
And I think prevention is really hard to measure.
- [54:57]
A
Yes.
- [54:57]
B
Like, it's very hard. Kind of measure it in populations, but even then, we're not very good at it.
- [55:03]
A
Yeah.
- [55:03]
B
And so we have to just really check in with our own individual bodies and check in with it, like, okay, what do you need? What do I really need to have for prevention? I love doing the genetic testing, like, really advanced genetic testing to help to guide us to know what some of the workaround things are. But I think a lot of times, intuitively, and I so love that you're talking about this and giving people hope and inspiration that it doesn't have to be just a decline. That. Yeah.
- [55:37]
A
I don't think it has to be doom and gloom and decline. And I don't think you need to go into your doctor. Doctor and have them just say, oh, that's just. That's just what happens, you know, with aging. Yeah. I just. I don't think it has to be our story.
- [55:49]
B
Okay, here's another story. Okay. So a patient had come to see me postpartum with postpartum depression. And we found a whole lot of nutrient deficiencies, some shifts in her microbiome, her mitochondria were struggling, and we got her back on track. She quickly gets pregnant with number two.
- [56:08]
A
Wow.
- [56:08]
B
Oh. Little sooner than. A little sooner than we'd hoped. But her whole pregnancy was so much better when we had done that work to tune her up. And then she didn't have postpartum with the second one.
- [56:24]
A
Wow.
- [56:24]
B
No postpartum depression. She felt good. So I think a lot of times these symptoms that. That we have are just letting us know that something's out of balance. And I think the usual story would be once you've had postpartum depression once, you're probably going to have it again to know that. I think also part of this tune up before pregnancy can help you to have not just more fertility, but healthier pregnancy and then better postpartum. But I still love it when I get to tune people up after the pregnancy. I really encourage people to get back in within six to eight weeks, and this will be for you. Postpartum.
- [57:11]
A
Yeah, I know. I was literally just thinking that. I'm like, oh, mental note. Yeah.
- [57:14]
B
Double check your microbiome, because definitely pregnancy can kind of shift things and then make sure that this. What's so amazing, I think, about humanity is that the babies really can Take the nutrients that they need from mom so that they can have the best chance of thriving. And. And then if we can do the really detailed nutritional testing, looking at amino acids, essential fatty acids, your trace minerals, your mitochondrial function, all these things, and then tune you up from there, it just makes that whole postpartum period a lot easier and more enjoyable. Love that.
- [57:57]
A
And I hope this gives women hope because I think that's a fear amongst many of us, at least it is for me, because we always think, think, what if I get postpartum depression after? And that gives me hope to know that it could just be a nutritional deficiency.
- [58:12]
B
Absolutely.
- [58:12]
A
And this is not at all to minimize anyone's experience.
- [58:15]
B
Everyone has postpartum depression is. Oh, my gosh, it is so scary for women and for their spouses. It really is one of the things I think it's so important to try to prevent.
- [58:28]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So if there's things that we can do, so. So let's just actually dive a little bit and get more specific. So if a woman is dealing with it or if she wants to try to minimize postpartum depression, what would you say would be maybe your top tips in order to hopefully avoid it?
- [58:47]
B
Yeah, I think it's really good to. I mean, if we can test to do something like a neutral valor ion profile, look at the microbiome, it's best. But you can't go wrong with taking some. A nice dose of some B vitamins, really making sure that you're getting good protein. There are some supplements that help with nitric oxide repletion because that can be super important postpartum, because your body's just pulled a lot of those things out. So things like Neo40 can be great. Then nice antioxidants like curcumin, CoQ10, phosphatidylcholine, I think is something that everybody needs to be on because that PC is amazing for just helping everything work better. It helps with cell membranes, mitochondrial membranes. I sound so nerdy.
- [59:47]
A
No, I mean, this is every. I love it. I'm eating it up because I'm the same.
- [59:51]
B
Okay.
- [59:51]
A
No, I love it, I love it.
- [59:53]
B
And that, like, if I was just going to pick one thing for women to be on during pregnancy and postpartum, it would be phosphatidylcholine.
- [60:00]
A
Okay, good.
- [60:02]
B
My favorite ones are on our website. But yeah, it's like, it helps make healthier baby brains. It help baby cells.
- [60:11]
A
Okay, good.
- [60:12]
B
Yeah.
- [60:13]
A
So, yes, I was very happy to learn because I was taking it for the last year or so up until we got pregnant and I was very happy to learn that I could take a drink. Pregnancy.
- [60:22]
B
So good.
- [60:22]
A
So. Okay, good. So I'm on the right track. Why do you think that so many people feel better when they travel to Europe and eat the same foods?
- [60:29]
B
That's not the case as much as it used to be. Like 10 years ago, it was pretty much fairly dependable.
- [60:36]
A
That is true.
- [60:37]
B
I can confirm. And I think it's because they have different requirements for everything. Everything from the mycotoxin levels in coffee. They have different standards. The way that pesticides are used is different. A lot of times the, the grains that they grow are different. So it really just is a better environment that most people feel, feel better there. They also have like. I'm just thinking about my, some of my patients that have spent some time in London though. Like that's definitely been an exception where they deal with so much mold. They there.
- [61:16]
A
Interesting. Probably because of their weather, I would assume, right? Yeah.
- [61:19]
B
And some of the building issues.
- [61:21]
A
Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's fascinating.
- [61:23]
B
Yeah.
- [61:23]
A
You know, you make a really good point. So I used to travel with a pop star as her nutritionist and we spent a lot of our time in Europe. Yeah. And this was about, wow, I can't believe this has been almost 10 years ago now. Was almost about 10 years ago now. And back then was. I was making posts about this back then and saying, wow, I feel so much better when I go to Europe and more recently when I've traveled there. It just, it hasn't been the same as it was back then. I mean, back then I could fully just eat pizza and I'm gluten free, which yet now like I. Yeah, it just is different now.
- [61:58]
B
It's a global contamination issue. This fertility crisis that we're seeing is global.
- [62:03]
A
Yeah.
- [62:03]
B
Drop in sperm count by 50% in 50 years is global. The one in six couples, it's global. So you look around at what's going on in the world and it's this buildup of environmental toxins, both the plastics and the use of glyphosate and other pesticides. When I was in Tanzania, was it two years ago, we were driving between the Hadzebi tribe and the Maasai tribe, about a three hour drive. And there was field after field after field of Monsanto corn and like so many plastics around the roadways because they don't have a, a garbage collection system there that's efficient, effective. And so meeting with one of the Maasai tribe doctors over the last 10 years, they've really seen an increase in their health issues with some of the maternal health, the placental issues, and children with autism. And so many things, so many health issues that we're seeing here are also happening there. And the only correlation that I could make was what I could see. So it kind of makes sense with what we're seeing with some of the epigenetic data around the glyphosate and the plastics.
- [63:20]
A
Wow, that's so sad. I think they're starting to use more glyphosate in other countries now, whereas before they weren't using it as much as they are now. Oh, man. Is it fair to call every pregnancy starting at 35 geriatric, or do you think that it's a cop out for not addressing root causes?
- [63:38]
B
It's very upsetting that any woman is called a geriatric pregnancy and we just have to stop this. Like, I think we need to refuse that label, that diagnosis, because women in their 30s and 40s can be very fertile, have very healthy babies, and by preparing for pregnancy can totally avoid that label.
- [64:07]
A
This is something that I've been getting on my soapbox about so much recently, and we talked a lot about it in the beginning of the episode. But I really believe that we need to be practicing bio individualized care and treating each individual case as an individual instead of putting a blanket statement on every single woman. Just calling them geriatric after 35, it's insane.
- [64:29]
B
It really undermines their sense of well being and their confidence.
- [64:35]
A
Yes.
- [64:36]
B
In their bodies. So we should be doing just the opposite. We should be helping them to be confident in their bodies and to know that they're going to be very healthy and be able to have a healthy
- [64:49]
A
baby and to let them know that they're not broken.
- [64:52]
B
No.
- [64:52]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [64:54]
B
I had my kids at 34 and 38, and I had gone through infertility prior to getting pregnant with both of them. And right before the second one, I had done a bunch of labs and took them to an ivf, you know, an infertility doctor. And they looked at them and they were like, oh, you just better go. You're 30, you're 37, almost 38. You better just do IVF. And in the time that I was waiting for my period to start, got pregnant. Even in residency where I was like, it was not the ideal time to get pregnant because I'm, you know, every third or fourth night, all night. But it just showed me how inaccurate those labs can be as to how healthy your eggs can be.
- [65:42]
A
Yeah.
- [65:43]
B
So I I just really. It's alarming how many women are being encouraged to just bypass their bodies.
- [65:55]
A
I completely agree, and I think that's a great place to end. I have so many other questions I want to ask you, so I feel like I'm gonna have to bring you back.
- [66:02]
B
Oh, good.
- [66:04]
A
I'll hang out with you anytime. I know, because I loved this. And I just think the work that you're doing is so amazing and you're helping so many people, and I think you're giving women so much hope, or couples in general, so much hope. So I just want to honor you and say thank you so much for all the work that you're doing and providing support. Your. Your book. Please let everybody know about your book so that they can check it out.
- [66:22]
B
Yes. The book is called the Preconception Revolution. And it's really everything I wish I had known before I got pregnant with my children. And that I really see makes a huge difference with fertility and creating an environment to have healthy babies. So I really hope that people will pass it along to help them preserve their fertility and. And have. Have healthy families. And then we also have an online program that we're starting to do because not everybody can come see me. So we're trying to help people have access to the labs and know the right supplements to take and help along with the journey. So that is on my website and ChippyMD and every baby. Well, because that really is my desire that we start to turn this children's health crisis around by starting to have these conversations so that men and women know what to do before they're trying to conceive and to get the green light to conceive. Yes.
- [67:19]
A
I love it. Well, I just. I love the work that you're doing so much. I think it's so important. So, yeah, thank you so much for coming on. This was such a great conversation.
- [67:28]
B
Thanks for having me. So, so fun to be with you.
- [67:30]
A
I know.
- [67:30]
B
You too.
- [67:31]
A
Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Real Foodology podcast. This is a Wellness Loud production produced produced by Drake Peterson and mixed by Mike Fry. Theme song is by Georgie. You can watch the full video version of his podcast inside the Spotify app or on YouTube. As always, you can leave us a voicemail by clicking the link in our bio. And if you like this episode, please rate and review on your podcast app. For more shows by my team, go to wellnessloud.com See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and doesn't constitute a provider patient relationship. I am a nutritionist, but I am not your nutritionist. As always, talk to your doctor or your health team first. Are you ready to rock middle age? I'm Dr. Tina Moore, Gen X truth teller and holistic physician on the Dr. Tina show, one of Apple podcast Top Alternative Health shows, I share what actually works for metabolic health, hormones and strength, backed by decades of clinical results, not trends. From loving the journey gym and hitting your protein goals to peptides and microdosing GLP1s, it's all done the right way, not the hype way, because menopause doesn't have to suck if you're fit. New episodes every Thursday, produced by Drake Peterson and Wellness Loud.