What’s the difference between religion and spirituality—and does one even matter without the other? In this collab episode, I sit down with Adam Allred and Sam Fenton of the "Who Started This Fire?" Youtube channel to have one of the most controversial conversations yet.

Raised in the LDS (Mormon) church, Adam, Sam, and I share our personal spiritual journeys and debate whether organized religion is a pathway to God or a roadblock to real truth.

We then tackle the bigger picture: Is God a loving father or just a projection of our own ideals? We confront the “problem of evil,” challenge the Bible’s idolization, and revisit Jesus’s radical message—that the kingdom of God is within us. We point out how spiritual experiences happen across religions, making it impossible to claim exclusivity without dismissing billions of people’s encounters with the divine.

From Eastern vs. Western worldviews to the shame-heavy “deficiency model” of Christianity, we break down how religion often convinces people they’ll never measure up, while spirituality invites people to remember their divinity.

We wrestle with how to raise kids with values and structure without indoctrination, acknowledging that religion provides order but can suffocate if it claims to be the only truth. This episode isn’t just about deconstructing religion—it’s about reclaiming spiritual sovereignty.

It’s about the courage to question, to search, and to embrace a path that honors truth above dogma. Whether you’re still in church, far outside it, or somewhere in between, this conversation will force you to ask: Are you living your faith, or just outsourcing it?

Guests Info:

The Socials

Who Started this Fire? Youtube

Deconstructing Dogma To Find The Divine w/ Adam Allred & Sam Fenton