
Hosted by Fred Copestake · EN

In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by sales thought leader, author, and one of the kindest people in the profession, David Brock. Together, they explore David's new book "Is Good Enough, Good Enough?" and why it's not another "do this, do that" sales methodology book. Instead, it focuses on the mindsets and behaviours that separate high performers from those who are simply checking the boxes. With win rates often accepted at 15–20% in many SaaS environments, David challenges the idea that "making the number" should be the benchmark. The conversation asks a bigger question: what becomes possible when we stop settling for good enough? In this episode, they explore: Why David wrote Is Good Enough, Good Enough? and what triggered his frustration The hidden cost of "acceptable" win rates and how much time teams spend losing Why sales improvement isn't just about tools, process, tech, or methodology What really separates high performers: mindsets and behaviours Why customer centricity is still misunderstood (and often too seller-focused) How to build trust by leading with what the customer cares about - not your product Why buyers increasingly want rep-free journeys (and what that really means) How questioning needs to evolve from "agenda-driven" to "sense-making" The role of curiosity and continuous learning in modern, complex sales How insight works in the real world - and why it doesn't need to be revolutionary AI as an amplifier: how it boosts good thinking (and scales bad thinking fast) Why curiosity may be the most important starting point for sellers and leaders Key insight The biggest performance gap in sales isn't caused by a lack of methodology. It's caused by settling. When salespeople stop being curious, stop learning, and start focusing on themselves instead of the customer, "good enough" becomes the standard - even when far better is possible. Practical takeaways Lead with the customer's world, not your product story Ask questions to understand, not to "set up" your pitch Use insights to start conversations - you don't have to be perfect, just thoughtful Let AI support deeper research and better preparation, not lazy automation Build your foundation: curiosity, customer focus, discipline, accountability, and care About David Brock David Brock is a respected sales leader, writer, and author of Sales Manager Survival Guide and Is Good Enough, Good Enough? His work focuses on helping sales professionals and leaders perform at a higher level by strengthening the behaviours and thinking that drive real results. Where to find David Brock LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davebrock Blog: https://partnersinexcellenceblog.com/ Book: Is Good Enough, Good Enough? available on Amazon - https://a.co/d/8qcWKx9 Connect with Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Free resources Collaborative Selling Scorecard Check how your sales approach fits today's environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/ Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Watch this episode on YouTube

In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by communications and speech coach Susie Ashfield, author of Just F**king Say It and a third-time guest on the show. This is an "emergency podcast" sparked by a moment on LinkedIn: Susie posted a video where she stumbled and left it in. No polishing. No AI. No pretending. Because as AI-generated content gets smoother, faster, and more convincing, the thing that makes us stand out is increasingly simple:- being human. Together, Fred and Susie explore what we risk losing when we outsource too much of our thinking, speaking, and creativity and how sales and communication can stay authentic in a world racing towards perfection. In this episode, they explore: Why Susie kept the mistake in her LinkedIn video and why it mattered The "volcano project" problem: what happens when the parent (or AI) does the work Where AI is genuinely useful (time-saving, editing, polishing) vs where it flattens originality Why "give me 10 creative ideas" isn't actually creative The difference between amplifying your thinking and outsourcing your thinking Why micro-mistakes, humour, and real reactions build trust and relatability The Pratfall Effect and why small imperfections can increase likability Why AI scripts often sound "political" - and why humans respond more to "comedian energy" How to make better videos without becoming artificial Why quality beats quantity in sales outreach - and why AI-driven scale can backfire A powerful story about effort, authenticity, and why "rubbish" sometimes wins Key insights AI can make your content look perfect. But perfection isn't what creates connection. The future belongs to people who can think, speak, and show up with enough courage to be real - including the pauses, the stumbles, the humour, and the moments that don't land perfectly. Because that's where trust lives. Practical takeaways for salespeople and creators Use AI for the practical work (drafting, editing, formatting, speeding up execution) Keep the creative work human (insight, point of view, story, judgement, humour) Don't fear mistakes - small imperfections can increase engagement and relatability Ditch the "social script" of long intros and credibility lists: lead with the audience's problem Prioritise quality connections over mass automated outreach About Susie Ashfield Susie Ashfield is a communications and speech coach and the author of Just F**king Say It. She helps people speak with confidence and impact without sounding scripted, robotic, or artificial. The book is also available as an audiobook, read by Susie herself (of course). Get in touch with Susie · Search Susie Ashfield online to find her work and the book: https://amzn.eu/d/aIZJK6N · LinkedIn: message Susie Ashfield directly - she replies - https://www.linkedin.com/in/susannahashfield/ Connect with Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Free resources Collaborative Selling Scorecard Check how your sales approach fits today's environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/ Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers <p class="MsoNormal" style= "mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-...

In the final episode of the Sales Today mini-series, Fred Copestake and James Michael step back to answer a deceptively simple question: Has selling really changed? The answer is both yes - and no. This closing conversation brings together the themes explored across the series and reframes selling not as persuasion or pressure, but as something far more human, thoughtful, and aligned with how buyers actually make decisions today. In this episode, they explore: What has stayed the same in selling - and what has genuinely evolved Why selling has always been about understanding people and solving problems How modern tools and insights allow salespeople to do a better job than ever before Why sales processes must align with buying processes How buyers often progress far before sales teams ever get involved Why tenders and late-stage engagement are rarely the start of the buying journey A powerful redefinition of selling that reframes everything Why ethical, buyer-led selling creates fair exchanges of value A simple definition of selling When asked to define selling in one sentence, Fred's answer is refreshingly clear: Selling is helping people buy. Sales isn't about control or coercion. It's about supporting people as they move through decisions — with or without you. A powerful reframing James shares a definition that brings the entire series together: Selling is a series of considered conversations of mutual curiosity, which ideally results in a fair exchange of value. This reframing removes pressure, manipulation, and performance - and replaces them with clarity, intent, and balance. Key insight Selling hasn't fundamentally changed - but our ability to do it well has. Today's best salespeople: Respect the buyer's journey Engage earlier with insight Align sales processes to buying behaviour Focus on value, not tactics When sales is done properly, it doesn't feel like selling at all. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com The end of the Sales Today mini-series This episode concludes the five-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how selling must evolve - not by abandoning its foundations, but by returning to them with greater clarity, ethics, and intent. If you're new to the series, Episodes 1–4 are available now. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/VrRNMcmR5aM Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/

In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport. At the heart of the discussion is Fred's work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn't an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments. This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger question: are we optimising sales processes for speed and scale, or for trust and outcomes? In this episode, they explore: Why Fred felt compelled to write Ethical Selling - and why the timing mattered How ethics fits alongside existing sales frameworks rather than replacing them Why values, alignment, and conscience directly affect sales performance The difference between selling software and selling solutions that must last decades Where SaaS sales thinking adds value - and where it can fall short The rise of SDRs, AEs, and sales jargon - and how it lands in traditional industries Why ethical selling must be practical, tactical, and usable tomorrow The importance of ownership, continuity, and trust in CEMMT sales cycles Key insight Ethical selling isn't about being "nice". And it isn't about abstract principles. It's about being aligned, acting with intent, and selling in a way that creates value for the buyer, the business, and the salesperson. When ethics are practical and embedded into how sales is done, trust increases — and performance follows. Why this matters in CEMMT sales In CEMMT environments, sales decisions often involve: Long time horizons Multiple stakeholders Real-world consequences Assets that must perform for decades In these contexts, fast, fragmented, or overly mechanised sales approaches can undermine trust. Ethical, end-to-end ownership of the sales process isn't old-fashioned. It's essential. About the guests Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches. James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability. Connect with James · LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/ · Website: www.justifiedtalent.com Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series This is Episode 4 of a 5-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how sales must evolve to reflect buyer behaviour, ethical expectations, and industry realities. Subscribe to Sales Today to catch the final episode in the series. Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1or4nrGzOOs Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers Useful resources Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/