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ScreenStrong Families
ENCORE: A Psychiatrist's Tips on Managing Screen Time with Dr. Adriana Stacey (#106)
01:19:54
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Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Screenstrong Families podcast, bringing you the best solutions for parents who are serious about eliminating screen complex in their home. This is Melanie Hempy and I am glad you are here today. I hope you're having a great day. I just want to welcome everyone. If you are a new friend, we're so glad you found us. If you're an old friend, welcome back. Just this morning I got a call from a mom who is hosting a Screenstrong group in her home. This means that she has gotten our course. We have a course available now and it is designed to be done in a group format. So this is really fun. When I got this call from her, she was so excited and she had some questions about it, but she said, you know, we're using the. The course is the discussion guide, just like you said, like a book club, which is the way it is designed. And she wanted to call to tell me how well it was going. And there, there was just a real teary, thank thankful heart there for her. Um, she said, there's so many things that I'm learning. And she said even just the first lesson alone was worth the price of the whole course. And all of her friends now and her. I think she's got five. I think that they're in fifth grade. I think that's the group. They're fifth grade moms. And I think there's five of them. And she just said that they were so excited to get her group started. So I am thrilled to know that there are groups starting out there because we know that this is a very, very tricky thing to do by yourself. It's very hard to navigate this by yourself. And there is so much strength in numbers in what our mission and what our vision is over here at Screenstrong is to get as many of these groups started all over the country, and not just our country, but all over the world. We have ambassadors all over the world. So we are all very passionate about helping these small groups get started. I know over Covid and everything. We've been doing so much online and we do have a very active Facebook group. But we know that real change is going to happen in these groups. And I remember so vividly the book club that we did when my kids were little. The twins were in third grade, I think, and, you know, Adam had already kind of gone through a lot of problems, and that group was so important to me. We read different books, different authors that we've had on this podcast, and we shared that experience together. I really Wish I had been in a group when my oldest son was younger. So if you have young kids, even, even through high school, it's still not too late. But it really, really helps if you can get in a small group early, get this delayed early and start building your tribe. Be sure and get the course to start this. We have done all the work for you. It is so, it is so full of so much research and science. Everything is just right there at your fingertips. It's really easy to go through. We, we did a podcast recently where we walked through and just kind of explained the different lessons in there. But it's a really good idea to do this even this summer. So don't wait till the fall. Even if your small group can't meet on a super regular basis because of vacations and all that, they can still do their homework, they can still read, and you can come together however, you can work it into your schedule. Sometimes the summer is even easier because you have more time. So it is a very, very practical thing to that you can do to learn together and go through your journey together. Remember, change can only happen in community. It's very difficult to make changes when you are all alone. So today we are thrilled to have Dr. Stacy back to discuss more practical ideas that you can do to have a screen strong lifestyle again. We, we just received so many blessings from her on our last podcast and we are so, so thrilled that she's able to give us some more time. Our visit was very, very productive Last Week with Dr. Stacy. And as you know, she was featured in the recent Washington Post article entitled Meet the parents who refused to give their kids Smartphones. And you know, when I saw that, I immediately knew I had to find out who she was and just get her kind of folded into our group over here. And we have had so much fun getting to know her. So we, we are so excited to have you back, Dr. Stacy.
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Thank you for having me back. I'm excited to continue this conversation.
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Yeah, we, we've talked offline about how we could go on and on and on and on forever. So we will have you back in hours and hours, hours and hours. And we've already had hours and hours, you know, offline talking. So I'm so, so excited to bring you back. So tell us a little bit about your background for people who are brand new joining us today. And if you are new, be sure and listen to part one, but tell us your back. A psychiatrist?
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You bet. So I am a psychiatrist, which means I went to medical school and then I did four years of training after medical school specializing in the treatment of mental health conditions and concerns. And I am a general psychiatrist, which means that I treat people throughout the, their lifetime. So I have little kids that are, you know, five and six years old, all the way up to My oldest patient's 82. So I, I see people throughout their lifespan.
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Wow. You just bring so much information and just a wealth of knowledge to this topic. And we have to remember our audience is all out there trying to learn as much as they can. And last week was so wonderful. I feel like you were able to articulate in just real easy to understand terms what's happening to our kids. And moms and dads really need this. We need, we need to, as lay people, really understand science more than we ever have had to understand it in the history, I think, of our country. I mean, since when did parents have to take science classes? Right? Well, that's where we are and you are really, really helping us understand this. So today we're going to take a deeper dive, like I said, into some practical tips as well as how to detox your kids if you feel like they are having way too much screen time and this stuff is really affecting them. So let's just dive right in and, and talk about, let's just start with a detox. You have a patient in your office, okay. Your day to day work, you have a gal come in, or maybe it's a boy. I know you deal a lot with girls with this issue of anxiety and depression. So what is a typical thing that might happen when you realize that their screen time is too much and how, how do you approach it? How do you tell a 13 year old girl and her parents that she has to put the drug away? How do you do this?
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Right? So every new patient that I see, we talk about screen time because there's never a patient I've seen where it doesn't have some influence on what's going on. So we ask them to pull out their phones, open up the screen time setting and look at it. And they're always surprised because they don't realize how fast the time goes by and how much time they're spending on it. And then I give them some knowledge, which is this. Any time over 2 and a half hours a day has been shown to increase depression by maybe up to 30%. So that, you know, significantly increases their chance for mental health problems. So we talk about how can we get this time down to two and a half hours or less per day, which for most of these kids is next to impossible because there's, there's so much of their life is tied up into this device. You know, and I'm a little bit lucky now and then I have an almost 16 year old and I can give them my personal experience with my own child. And you know, it's interesting because especially my early college students, 18 year olds and you know, early that age, they say to me, wow, she's really lucky is what they say to me. Even some of my 16 year olds will say, you know, you know, she's really lucky that she doesn't have that pressure on her. So whether they admit it or not, they recognize how much stress these devices are putting on them. And so I say to them, my preference would be that you get rid of this, that you get rid of it. And if you can't get rid of it, I want you to delete your social media apps. And they say, oh, well, I don't know if I can do that. And I say, pick one. And it has to be one that you use. So if Facebook is on your phone and you don't use it, that one doesn't count. And so just yesterday I had a patient say to me, Dr. Stacy, I got tick tock off my phone. I got it off there last week. And I said to her, how do you feel? And she said, you have no idea. And this is a 20 year old.
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So.
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And she said, I feel so much better and my sleep is so much better. And so we start with baby steps. You know, of course my, my suggestion to them is get rid of it. Get rid of all of it. You know, if it's causing you trouble, let's get rid of it. But sometimes we have to go with those little steps for these ones that already have it. And you know, I did have a young patient, I think she was 13, who was having significant problems because of her phone. And I told the parents, I can't do anything else until you get rid of that phone. I can't. Like, we've worked, we've tried, we've done all the things. I'm not putting your child on a medication because they're on their phone too much. You know, that poor kid, her, her parents took her out of our clinic because they said, you can't do that.
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Yeah. And see, yes you can.
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Yes you can. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard at first and then it's going to be great.
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Well, what you just said about I don't want to Give them medication because they're on a phone. That's chilling to think that we're allowing a phone to interrupt and harm their life to the point that they need medication. That's. That's just. But that's where I would say the majority of kids today are that have obsessive use of their technology.
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They.
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They are on medication or they need medication when the reality is they need to take the drug away.
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Exactly.
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And they can't do it. And, and this is so fascinating what, what you said when they come in and say, your daughter's lucky, because I think every teenager out there, and I want parents to hear this, and if you're driving, just kind of pause a minute, pull over the side of the road or something. I think every teenager out there is dying for their parents to take their phones away. And, and you don't see it that way. As a parent, you think, oh, they're going to hate me. They're not going to like me. I want them to love me. I want to give them all this stuff. But deep down, they are begging you to do this because they cannot do is something socially impossible for them, physically impossible for them, mentally impossible for them, emotionally impossible for them. They can't do it. They need you to be a strong coach, a strong parent. They need you to say no. They will never tell you that, but they desperately need you to do that. So don't you think there is so much more freedom when a child can grow up without a phone, without all the stress of a phone, they experience so much more freedom.
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Oh, 100%. You know, smartphones do quite often make our lives easier in the moment, but the risk for anyone under, I think, age 18, maybe even 25, significantly, significantly outweigh the benefits. I think it's really important that we understand the dangers of social conformity so our kids learn to fit in, how to be fathers rather than leaders. That's not what we want to develop. We want to develop a generation of leaders, a generation of kids that lead and don't follow. And so that's, you know, one of the things that I hear all the time about, well, my kids going to be left out. They are going to be left out. And you know what? Ignorance is bliss a lot of the times. And we need to teach uniqueness. We want our children to be unique. We want them to be unique. We want them to be strong in who they are and know who they are. We also want them to learn how to wait. Well, let's teach these kids of the, you Know immediate gratification generation. How to wait. Well, let's teach them that. You know, you're not giving your 12 year old keys to the car. They're not driving around town. You know, you're not serving them up a glass of wine at dinner. Let's teach them how to wait. You have to wait to get a smartphone because your brain is not ready for that. Just like we do with hundreds of other things every day.
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Yeah, it's just like we do with all the other rites of passages in their life as a kid. It's, it's about the process. You, you never have success when you skip stages, when you jump ahead. I mean, you think about everything in their life. When they start first grade. You can't do fifth grade math when they're first grade, you'd never do that. Maybe they, they could, but they're missing all the other steps and that's what they're missing. I love this idea of teaching uniqueness and waiting. Well, what a concept. We dare to be different all the time. That's one of our, our mantras over here at Screenstrong. Just dare to be different. Just be different. You will raise leaders when they learn at early age how to stand out from the crowd and how to be different. So let's talk about, how do we do this? We've got parents listening. They're listening because they are so concerned. They either have problems or they so desperately want to prevent this. And I think if you're in prevention mode, oh my goodness, you know, we are so excited for you because you don't have to step off the cliff and fall into the quicksand and deal with all this. But, but Dr. Stacy, what do we do when we have a 13 or 14 year old who's been on their phone for a few years and we need to do a detox, we know we need to just get them off. Do you think that cold turkey is appropriate? Do you think that is a good way to handle it? And how do you suggest doing that?
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Oh, that's what I tell every parent. Take it away. Just take it away. I mean, you know, if your kid misused something and you find that to be dangerous for them, you would take it away. You know, I mean, I hate to use an extreme example, but if you find out that your kids, you know, got a drug problem, you don't let them just use it a little bit, you're going to take it away. You're going to find a way to prevent that. So if you have a child and you see them heading down this path, you've got to just take it away. And you're going to talk to them about it and explain at their level, this is why we're doing this. And it's going to be hard and they're going to have it. Just like with any addiction, it's going to be hard, but you're just going to take it away. And I actually counseled a mom yesterday about that. She said, well, I gave him his phone. He was 8 and he's 11. What do I do? I said, you just take it away. You just take it away. And we can replace it with a gab phone, we can replace it with the gab watch some other way that they can still feel in touch with their friends, with their family. But you just have, in my mind, cold turkey is the only way. You just have to take it away.
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Interesting, because my oldest son, after he went through all his gaming addiction problems and went to the military for five years, came back, went back to college and then he speaks for us now. He says the same thing. He says the same thing about video games. He said cold turkey is the only way you can do it. So explain a little bit more around that because I know this is a huge hang up for parents. First of all, it's scary. It's, it's unknown. You are scared that they are going to go through withdrawal and hurt you or hurt themselves sometime. And I always say to parents, if you really feel like that's going to happen, then you do need to get professional help to help you go through this. But for the average family who's just starting to recognize all these warning signs of the, you know, loss of motivation and the increasing use over time and the replacement of other healthy activities are now being replaced by phone use and then the meltdowns, you know, I think there is a lot that you can do to detox on your own, if you will. So you mentioned before when we were talking earlier offline about how it's just like alcohol that you would not continue to give, you know, a glass of wine every other day. Right, right.
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If you've got an alcohol problem, like that's how it works with addictions. You don't just, you don't just, okay, you get a six pack today and you get a five pack tomorrow and you get. No. When you realize that your child or you or your spouse or your friend, you know, whoever has an addiction to something, you get rid of it because that's the way that we can work on changing the brain to where it's no longer seeking out this dopamine hit that these devices give. So you have to remove access 100%.
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That that's ultimately what your goal is. It's incredibly difficult. I'm sure you get so frustrated as a physician that you've got patients coming back and coming back and coming back, but they still are doing their drug, right? They're still. And then they're like, help me, help me, help me. And you're like, well, like you said, do. You said to the mom, well, until we get rid of the phone, it's going to be really hard to help this person. I mean, how frustrating is that? Do you see patients over, like, a number of sessions, and do you feel like you're just kind of going around in a circle if they don't get there?
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Yeah. And I actually had somebody say to me one time, you know, that seems really like you're not doing the best for the patient by abandoning them. And I say, I said to that person, I'm not abandoning this patient. I'm telling this patient, honestly, I cannot help you if you don't help yourself. Like, I can't. I cannot. You know, And a lot of times parents say, okay, we're going to put limits on it. They can use it 30 minutes in the morning, and they can use it an hour after school. We all know how that. How that works out. The hours up in a. In a hot second. And then the kids say, just, just ten more minutes, Mom. Just ten more minutes, dad. And then you're busy. And then it's the arguing and the having to. You know, I don't want to spend my time doing that. No. I want to spend my time building relationships with my kids and doing things that are fulfilling. I don't want to spend my time setting a timer for them to be engaged in a virtual world. I just don't think it's good for their brain. So that's why I say it needs to go away. I mean, ideally, parents would never give it to their kids, but if you're at that point where you're seeing this, then you need to just take it away.
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I don't think there's any parent out there that would say, oh, I wish I had given my kid more screen time when they were younger, you know? And that's one thing you have to really think about. Are you doing today what you want to keep doing more of? And that's the way you. You guide your child's activities. And if they're not doing Activities that you want them to increase and do more of, then you probably need to stop those activities. The other thing that I feel like is very important when we're talking about this moderation issue. I'm loving that you brought that up, because a lot of people, I think the majority of the curve here sits in this little area that thinks that moderation is okay because they think, well, we just need to balance everything. And of course, you and I know that you don't balance things that are bad for you. You balance things that are good for you, and you moderate even things that are good. You don't moderate things that are bad or that are causing problems. But just bringing up this moderation, a lot of parents think that just having social media for the weekends or having video games on the weekends, that's a real big qu. Big question that I get, you know, isn't that okay? And I want to hear your perspective on that. I. I think from a parent, you've got your doctor hat, and then you've got your parent hat. You know, your doctor hat, of course, supports the idea of one thing and then. But your parent hat also says, I am tired of listening to the begging for 10 more minutes. I'm tired of setting the kitchen timer. I'm tired of our whole life being orchestrated around, when is Saturday coming so I can get to Fortnite? And the other thing that I want you to talk about, so that thing, but then I also want you to talk about the cumulative effect, because like any other drug out there or habit out there that we do, that might not be productive. And there is a cumulative effect. It's not like you start fresh every morning. Your brain is not reset every morning when you are even doing this in moderation.
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Right.
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So expand on that concept a little bit. I think if parents understood that, that you're building a habit, you're building the pathway in the brain, that it is cumulative, I think it would help their idea about moderation.
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Right. So let me think where to start with that. So we talked quite a bit about that on our last last week when we talked about, you know, all the brain effects that it has. And one of the things that I think parents don't recognize or not really understanding is how this changes your child's brain, brain chemistry. Okay. So we're not just talking about, oh, they really like watching these videos, or they really like tik Tok or, you know, it's just fun for them. Like, it's an actual change in the structure and function of their brain that is pushing them to seek out more and more that cumulative effect. It's okay, yesterday it was three hours. Tomorrow it's three hours and ten minutes. And it. It's just on and on and on,
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and it adds up. It doesn't, like, go away every day.
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Yes. And then we are seeing things like we talked about last time, like acquired adhd, where the brain pathways stop working correctly and it looks like a neurodevelopmental disorder, when really it's just something that's acquired, you know? Dr. Gary Small, who's the director of the UCLA Longevity center, he started his research in 07, but he found that technology use of as little as an hour per day dramatically changed activity patterns in the brain. Wow. What happens is the brain begins to form aberrant connections, which is like incorrect neural connections, and the ones that are correct become damaged. If you think about when you're driving down a road and say a bridge is out, so that bridge was the correct way to get across and is out. Like, the bridge is gone. And so a new way has to be formed that has to go a completely different direction. And so that's what we're trying to prevent. We want our kids to have healthy brains with healthy neuronal connections, and the additive use is damaging these connections. So I think it's important to talk about some tips or ways that we manage in our homes, because, yeah, I
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definitely want to dive into that because I think you just helped us get over a huge hump. Because even now, people that are listening, they're thinking, well, just a little bit's okay. A little bit. Okay. And there's such a risk to that that it's not okay. First of all, and it does add up, and like that bridge analogy, the bridge is broken down. So every day it gets broken down a little more, a little more, a little more, and then it's broken. And then you. You've got to start redoing another connection. That's really fascinating.
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Well, and people aren't saying, oh, my 12 year old just wanted something from the store. I just let him drive a couple blocks and back in my car. We're not doing that.
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That's right. Moderating driving.
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Yeah. I mean, of course there's this whole debate about, is 16 really old enough to drive?
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No, it's not. I can tell you right now.
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Not in Europe it's not. You know, But.
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Well, according to our insurance companies, that's
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a whole other podcast. But yeah, y draw some parallels into, you know, their brains aren't ready for this. So let's not give them that. That device.
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Yeah. The risk is just too high. And it's not about, you know, being over controlling or overprotecting. It's just the fact it's just too high. It's just. And that's where we just get our bold message going here. Over at Screenstrong, we just say, no, it's just not. That's not a good idea. It's not going to work. We don't throw all technology out the window. That's not what we're doing. But these highly addictive forms of toxic screen use, you know, are not good to moderate. If you found out tomorrow that your kids had a peanut allergy, would you go buy more peanut butter and let them just have, you know, two tablespoons of peanut butter every day, you know, to moderate it? So I like to look at it sometime almost like an allergy. And I kind of tease with my neighbors and we have new neighbors or new friends at school. We say that our kids are allergic to video games and social media and pornography. And they kind of laugh and I'm like, well, they are. Their brains are allergic to it. So when they come play, is it okay if we do something else instead? So let's dive into these practical tips. How do you take your kid off? What are some tips that you do now once you have them off? Let's just say, okay, you've got this mom convinced out there. All right, this weekend we're starting, we are going to just remove this and do our life very different. So they do the cold turkey, they have a conversation and by the way, in our course, we go through the steps on how to do this. We go through very, very detailed steps on how to talk to your kids and all kinds of tips around that. But in your home. Since we have such a wonderful combo here today with you, Dr. Stacy, that you are a physician and you're also a parent with four kids and you are in the petri dish right now. Right. Because it's happening in your house.
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Yeah.
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And I'm sure your kids are just normal. Right. Like everybody else out there, you know.
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So how.
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What are your tips? What do you do in your house when they maybe complain? I think I will say for, for us that once we made this decision and we got past some hurdles, you know, they stopped complaining about it.
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But.
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But talk about what you do in your home and just some tips for parents.
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Well, and this is the elephant in the room is that we have to start with ourselves. So as adults as parents, we have to model healthy tech habits to our children, and that's hard. It's hard to do, you know, I mean, I'm a physician. I've got patient care I have to do. I've got bills to pay. I've got things to do. You know, I love to use my phone to take pictures and to, you know, do things. So. But we have to start with ourselves. We have to moderate our own use first because they're watching us. They're watching us, you know, So I think that that's an important thing to remember. And, you know, we. Parenting is hard, and it's really hard, and it's not going to get any easier. It's going to be hard. I mean, it's hard. You're forming another human. Right. And so that's not going to be easy.
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Hopefully an adult at that.
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Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we're still growing and learning ourselves. And so we need to stop being afraid of them being afraid of our children. Oh, well, they're going to be mad at us, or they're not gonna get invited to the party or, you know, all of these things. They may not get invited to the party, but you know what else? When they don't get invited to the party, they're not going to see all those other kids at the party on Snapchat because they're, you know, they're going to be doing something with you or their dad or, you know, their friends that really want to spend time with them.
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Yeah.
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And so I think it's important to remind the kids about that. You know, Melanie, you're right. Like, the kids stop complaining after a while because they know this is how our family goes. Okay. So it's just like we go to church every Sunday. I know not every family does that, but that's what we do. My youngest child is 9, and he just stopped complaining about going to church every Sunday about a month ago. Yeah, almost nine years of I don't want to go. I don't want to sit there, you know, and. And I know I'm not alone in that, but I'm just saying, like, sure, complain about things and it's hard for them, but you have to stay strong as the parent in knowing what is right for them. So let's start with ourselves. Let's encourage our kids to be unique. Let's encourage them that if your friends want to spend time with you, they will find a way to get in touch with you and either through the parent or they'll come over to your House or their parent will call, you know, your parent. And if they don't do that, then let's find some other friends. Let's find other friends that value us. And we don't need 30 friends. You know, one or two friends is fine. Let's find the friends that want to spend time with you, and let's not be, you know, feeling like we have to be invited to all the things. Yeah.
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B
Yeah. So this and that little point right there, I just want to say that is if this is the only thing that. That y' all hear today, this is such an incredible point to understand that you don't have to have it all when it comes to friendships. You don't have to beat at every single party. You don't have to go. You don't have to be at every single party, and you don't have to feel like you have to answer every single invitation. It becomes a popularity thing. And we all know, and I'm sure you know, that the popular kids are never the ones or where you want to be, because 10 years after high school, they're usually really struggling. But the. What you just said really triggered that for me, that the normal ebb and flow of life is not that you are spending nine hours a day with your friends all day. This is not normal. The normal ebb and flow is that mom has to call the other mom. You make plans for next Wednesday to come home after school, and then you do it the next week. It's not every minute of every day.
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Right, right.
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That. That's so critical. That sets the pace. When you don't have technology running the show, it sets the pace. And I'm reminded of a mom who told me last year, I'll never forget this, she's a young mom. She has kids in first and second grade. And she said this social media and this. This phone of mine in the car at carpool line is the death of me. She said, we are having a great day. Everything's fine. I'm in the carpool line, and I'm getting ready to pick up my kids. And then we start getting in a group text with other moms. Oh, can so and so come to my house and play? Well, what about they get in your car right now? And then we can go here, and then we can pick you up here, and then we can do that, and then we can do that. And she said, it is so chaotic. And then the kids are all like, oh, can I go? Can I go? Can I go? Because the moms are all texting and by the time you pull up to get your kids, you're just exhausted and you're thinking, all I really wanted to do was bring my kids home and let them play in the backyard. And she said, it's causing me so much stress that now I don't even answer my phone in the car. I put it on silent. I don't even want to know if somebody's trying to do that last minute play date. It's the last minute play date that made me think of this when you said this. So. And that's a practical tip. Just put your phone on silent in the car. I mean, that's something that anybody.
- [31:41]
A
That reminds me of something my teenager said to me recently. So she has chosen not to be on the group text for her class at school. So she goes to a somewhat smaller high school, so they have kind of a girls group chat. And she's chosen not to be on that. And as a result, there was a field trip they were going on and there was some information that was sent out that she didn't get because they put it on the group text and she didn't get that. So she showed up for the field trip and maybe didn't have the right shoes or I don't know, something.
- [32:13]
B
Not a huge deal, but she got something earth shattering.
- [32:16]
A
Yeah, right, right. For when you're 15. But she got in the car and she was explaining this to me how that she was disappointed because she wished she would have had that information. And I said, well, you can get on the, the group chat, you know, then you won't miss that. She said, well, I don't, I don't want to get on the group chat because, you know, it's thousands of messages a day. And I thought, how mature of a brain to say, you know, I don't need all of that. I don't need all of that input. Which goes back to my point I made last week about access to your child. You know, we don't need thousands of people to have access to them. I don't want that many people to have access to me. You know, kids, I said, you know, I'm in my 40s and I'm a mom and I still get left out. I get left out of things. People go to dinner or they do something after church or they do something. I get left out. And that happens your whole entire life. And you need to get this out of your head, that you're always going to be invited to everything.
- [33:16]
B
Yeah. And that you don't need to go to everything. And I think what's wonderful about sharing that story about your daughter just now is that you are explaining how this is becoming a habit. So we get to build habits in our kids lives. And by the way, we are the author of the habits in their lives. They don't get to do this on their own. We structure their environment, we structure everything that they do when they're little. So you put certain things in their life and that's what they get used to. But what's so wonderful is when you share that, it just makes me realize that she is getting used to this lifestyle. So you are setting her up for success. And that's just, you know, we get little glimmers of hope, right? So when we're screen strong we don't, we don't live in misery. In fact, our life is so much better and so much happier and so much more positive. And I'm, I'm not saying that we don't have problems in all of our lives, you know, dealing with certain things, but the screen thing gets figured out and then everything else just gets easier.
- [34:15]
A
It is, I tell my children and my friends and parents of the kids that I work with and patients of mine that it's not my job to raise a happy teenager. It's my job to develop a successful adult. So you know, there's this whole idea that we just want our children to be happy. We just want our children to be happy. You know, I think that what we have to realize is that we are taking away their ability to understand delayed gratification. So the way to protect our brains and the brains of our children is to become more self aware about our incessant digital communications, to make a commitment to, to start delaying the need for instant gratification. We have to be more patient, we have to be less impulsive and those are ways to become more successful.
- [35:08]
B
That doesn't happen overnight. No, you can't teach that in one.
- [35:12]
A
Years long. Years long.
- [35:14]
B
And you have to do it. So you either start now or you start later. Which means you pay now or you pay later. And I love what you just said about your job is to develop a successful adult, not necessarily a happy kid. But the ironic thing or not the ironic thing, the mystery, the secret that nobody tells you until now because you're listening to a screenstrong podcast. But the secret is your child will be much happier without the stress of all this technology in their pocket when they're young. That's the blessing behind it, right?
- [35:49]
A
And one thing I want, well, millions of things I want parents and kids to know. But one of the things I want to emphasize is that when you allow your kids technology time, it's important the parents and the kids understand the parents decide how much the parents decide when the parents monitor the contact and to remember that screens are a privilege, not a right. And so I want parents to tell that to their children. You know, if you make the decision to let your kid, you know, use your device to look on Instagram for 30 minutes, you decide like that's your decision. It's not their right as a 12 year old to get a phone. And I want parents to understand you don't have to do this. You don't have to give them a phone, you don't have to give in the social pressure and your kid is going to be fine, likely better without it.
- [36:42]
B
And you're not going to go for months and months and years and years of all this terrible arguments and meltdowns. I think that's what people have in mind. I think they ask me, why aren't your kids arguing with you all the time? And the answer is absolutely no. There is a season, possibly if they've been on it, you've had to take it away. But you, you've got to get this idea out of your head that that becomes the constant argument all the time. It just isn't. And, And I'm sure, Dr. Stacy, you have with your kids. Your boys are, how old are they now?
- [37:14]
A
So I, My oldest is 15. I have twins that are boy and a girl and they're 12 and nine.
- [37:20]
B
Yeah, right. So your boy and girl twins that are 12, they are probably starting to ask you again, right? Hey mom, I want a phone or whatever. I know when our kids were in third grade, we made the decision to have a video game free home and we also announced that we have a porn free home. And this is how we are going to achieve those goals. And it means that there's no access to technology without our knowing what you're doing. And you're not getting video games, you're not getting smartphones and we're doing all these other fun things instead. When they got to middle school, they did start like begging a little bit more as they remember it different than I do. They, they remember begging all the time. And I honestly don't really remember that because our decision was already made.
- [38:06]
A
Talk to us about it on the regular. Got a phone, so and so has a phone. We want a phone. And it. And they know what our response is going to be. But if you met them, their personality is very persistent. They're persistent duo, so.
- [38:22]
B
Oh, yeah. And two, there's strength in that number. I know when it's two against one, I get that. And so. But I love it. So they're. They're going through that stage where they think they know. Know better. Right. And they think that parents are kind of lame and they don't know what they're doing. And it's so fascinating when they get through that. And then they, like your daughter, get over it. And then they can start saying things like, no, I really don't want to get on that group chat. It's so great. But what do you do right now?
- [38:49]
A
How do you handle, you know, what we did, and I. I think this is great if, if you want to do this is that we got our twins something called a gab watch. And what the gab watch does, of course, it's like a watch, like, you know, to wear. But what we like about it is that it only allows up to 10 contacts, and the parents control that. And so we said, okay, which of your friends do you want to be able to call and put family members in there? And they can send preset texts or they can send voice memos to people. And so I. We have found that that's been a great sort of intermediary way that they can keep in touch with their friend. Of course, they can't be on group. Right. That's the subject for a whole other podcast.
- [39:33]
B
Group text. Yes, I'm gonna write that down. We're going to talk about that.
- [39:37]
A
That could be an hour in and of itself.
- [39:39]
B
But yes, group texts are just like social media, by the way. But anyway, yes. Yeah, let's talk about that another time.
- [39:44]
A
Right? We don't have time for that today. But I. We have found that this gab watch has been good because it does allow them some contact with their friends. It allows them to make phone calls with their friends, but we are still in control of who they can be in touch with, and we can turn it off at any time. So you can go into the app as a parent and cut it off, and it won't, you know, it won't work at all.
- [40:06]
B
And. Yeah, and what Dr. Stacy's talking about right now is the gab company, G, A, B B. And this is the phone company that we also recommend. We have a code. It is easy. It is strong. The word strong. If you use that when you order, you will get a discount. And I love this company. We work with them. And so I would love for y' all to use that code when you order it. But let me say also, yeah, the watch is great, the phone is great. We also recommend using the gab phone as a house phone. So you, if you don't have a house phone right now and you're in that dilemma. My kids are a little bit older. I don't want them going out here and about without me being able to get in touch with them, which is usually the first sign that parents are seeing, okay, I need to be able to get in touch with my kids. But they think that they have. They think it's all or nothing, right? We immediately go to either you have a phone or you don't have a phone. And we really recommend the intermediate step of getting this talk text only phone for your house phone. It lives on your kitchen counter. It becomes literally your house phone. So if your child has to go take care of a neighbor's dog, or they have to go somewhere to babysit, or they have to do something or they want to call their friend, they use the phone. Very similar to the way that we use our phone that we all shared with our family when we were growing up. And that does a couple things that really helps kids realize, hey, this is not my phone, this is the house phone. And I am just going to use it here while I go to baseball practice. I'm going to come back and put it back on the kitchen counter. So that's just one idea that we have. That's one really good tip. You know, I hate that we don't have home phones anymore.
- [41:47]
A
Right. And we are the same way. So that's what we do at our house for a home phone. And I want to speak a little bit. This seems like a good time to talk about the feedback I get from parents about, well, what if there's an emergency, they need something, there is an emergency. And I want to say this. We have to teach our children to healthily detach from us, to spread their wings, to know whom to go to if they need help, to know how to find a support person in time of need, whether it's something big or something small. That's an acquired skill and it needs to be learned from a young age. Here's an example. So this mother was telling me about her daughter. She had sent her into the grocery store to grab a couple of items. So one of the items was a particular brand of bread that they liked. So the daughter, who was 16, goes into the store and she can't find the bread that her that they wanted. She comes out of the grocery store crying because she had forgotten her phone and she was wanting to text her mother to ask her where to find the bread. Well, when you and I were 16 and we went to the store and we couldn't find the bread, we would find someone that worked at the grocery store and we would say, hey, I'm here to find this bread. Where is this bread? So we're. We're teaching our children to rely on these devices to solve their problems, which is not, you know, it's not good.
- [43:22]
B
They're not learning how to solve problems. All they're going to do is dial and text mommy, and they're not learning.
- [43:28]
A
We have to stop sending the message to our children that the world is dangerous. So, you know, there's a lot of evidence right now that shows that we may be living in the most peaceable era in the existence of our species. So we do not live in a more dangerous time than it was. We just don't. That's. That's just not true. Now you're going to hear about more violence, right? You know, because we get all the input and all the news and everything. But. But statistically, yeah, statistically it's not true right now. If you are concerned about that, consider a gab watch. Consider a gab phone. I mean, those are ways for your kids to be able to get in touch with you. But like I said, we did not give our daughter a gab phone, any device at all until she was 15. So she made it all the way through ninth grade and had no. No device.
- [44:20]
B
Yeah, and we did that too. And we did the plan where she. Where they couldn't. Where the kids couldn't share photos. I think the media sharing is probably what you see in your office. In fact, I would. I don't know this. I'm imagining, though, that your office, that you see parents coming in because it's the first time their. Their daughter shared a nude or did some sort of sexting or whatever. Because that's really devastating for a family. You know, you feel like, oh, my gosh, I need to.
- [44:50]
A
That just happened to me earlier this week with the patient, you know, and it was, you know, and that's why when I give talks, you know, inevitably, every single time get the question from parents, well, when is the right age to get my child a smartphone? You know what I say to them every time, when you're comfortable allowing them to watch pornography, that's when. Yeah, so. And for me, that's never. And so that's why I say I'm never getting them a smartphone. If they are an adult and they choose to buy one for themselves, that's their decision. I will never do it.
- [45:20]
B
Yeah. Amen. That's me. That's me. I agree with you 100%. And that is so funny, that quote about when they're ready to see porn. I've been saying that for so many years, so I am, like, just loving that you just said that, because that's the advice that I say all the time. Well, you know, they're ready when they're ready to see porn, because they will 100% of the time see whether they want to see it or not. They will see it on a device, a small computer that's in their pocket 24 hours a day. And it's impossible. We don't have time to go into all the parental controls. I know that a lot of people have questions about that, because that's the natural. Next question. Well, aren't there a lot of parental controls? Well, no. There's no parental control out there that will help your child's brain. Okay. There's none. And parent, you are the best parental control. And removing access is the only way to solve this problem. The moderation is not going to work, and parental controls don't work. And so many parents can get their hopes up and put a lot of stock in parental controls. And I'm quite sure on another podcast, you and I could unpack all the ways that kids get around these draws.
- [46:26]
A
In fact, in my own house, I mean, it hap. You know, I mean, you can be the smartest parent on the planet, and they're going to figure out a way. They will figure out a way.
- [46:35]
B
Yeah. And that's their job. That's their job, to hack the code. Okay? That's just their job. And your job is to not allow the device in the house. So what do you say to parents that say, but we have to teach them how to use it one day. Right. They have to get up.
- [46:50]
A
That's my favorite. I hear that. I mean so much. Well, you know, I'd rather my child learn how to use, you know, whatever it is under my roof than after they leave the house. Like social media or smart. Let me tell you something. I was 30 when I got my first smartphone, and I'm pretty sure within about five minutes I knew how to use it. So I don't think that teaching your child at 8, 9, 10, 11 how to use it is really changing the, the, you know, outcome of their Life. Well, my kid wants to be an app developer. Well, great. They should do that. They shouldn't be developing apps at 12 years old. I mean, that's just, you know, most kids are not out there using it to develop apps to change the world. I mean, that's not what they're doing.
- [47:34]
B
No, the brain isn't there yet. And like I say, if your kid wants to run a candy business one day, they don't start eating Skittles right now, you know, all day. Like that's going to make them sick. You. That's. It's a completely different skill learning about this.
- [47:49]
A
When your child goes for their first job interview, they're going to be found on the Internet somewhere because they've been on the Internet since they were 10 years old. And is that really what you want?
- [48:00]
B
No.
- [48:01]
A
You know, we put pictures of our kids out there on Instagram or Facebook book or whatever. I'm not saying we like me and my husband. I'm saying we as a culture do that. And maybe that's a discussion to have in the future as well. But I don't think that them, quote, learning how to use social media under your roof is going to make any difference. It's actually going to be worse for them because it's a myth. You can't undo it. You can't undo the picture that's out there. The comment they made the right. Knowing they're left out of everything. The online bullying. I mean, I just had a patient in my office this week who is in a serious, major online bullying situation that likely should have police involvement. And if this kid was not on social media, it would be a completely different story.
- [48:54]
B
That's right.
- [48:55]
A
I mean, the bullying might still be happening, but it. She wouldn't be as excited, accessible.
- [48:59]
B
It's so much easier on social media. And my heart goes out to the kids being bullied, but then my, my heart also goes out to the parents. And I want to say take it away. If they, if you don't send them to the, the arcade in the middle of downtown with all the weirdos, then, you know, maybe they won't have anything happen to them.
- [49:16]
A
Right.
- [49:17]
B
So part of it is the access. We can't expect to put our kids on social media and not be bullied.
- [49:23]
A
That.
- [49:23]
B
We just can't expect that. That's not feasible. And I believe that you learn how to use social media best by not being on social media.
- [49:35]
A
That's 100%.
- [49:37]
B
You learn it by learning real life. Then you apply all those executive function skills and all the eq, all of the experience in real life, then you apply that over to social media and you'll be fine. But it's going to take you probably 25 years to learn how to act like a, a normal human being. So you can use.
- [50:00]
A
One thing I wanted to bring up that I forgot to talk about on our last episode was about this study that was done about texting. So this is from Mind Change by Susan Greenfield. So she says teenagers who spoke with their parents over the phone or in person. So actual voice, hearing the voice, she studied those versus texting in relation to how much, how much oxytocin was released, which is an. Oxytocin is a chemical that's an indication of bonding and well being. They also looked at cortisol, which as we know, is a marker of stress. And what they found is that parents who texted with their, with their children versus parents who spoke with their children either on the phone or in person. The ones that texted released no oxytocin and had cholesterol, sorry, cortisol levels as high as those who did not interact with their parents at all. So why am I telling you this? Is because I want parents to stop texting, I love you, good night. Or you know, you're the best. Or like all this, say it to your kids, say it to their face, say it over the phone, call them. And I tell my child too, at any moment I could come read your text messages because I own that phone and you are not. That's not yours, it's mine. I'm allowing you to use it. And so you know what she does instead of trying to text? She calls people.
- [51:40]
B
Sure.
- [51:40]
A
That's what I want her to do. That's what I want all my patients do. That's what I want my friends to do. That's what I want my other kids to do. Is when you want to speak with someone and get into a conversation with them, call them. Let's talk to each other. Let's not send these, you know, emojis back. I mean, that's fine to do, you know, every now and then. I'm not crazy person who says don't text. I'm just saying something important. You're having a good conversation, something that's meaningful. Let's do it with our actual voices and not through a text.
- [52:11]
B
What an incredible tip. Every parent listening right now. What we're talking about is voice is better than texting. When it comes to all of the things you're trying to do to attach your kids to your Family. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to let them know that you love them. Tell them. Tell them in person, or tell them on the phone. Don't just text it. Don't. Or at least don't think that the text is really working, because it's not that. That's very, very important to understand. I have a daughter right now who's out of college now, and she's moved out of the house, and it's so easy to just text things back and forth, but this is really even convicting for me. I need to pick up the phone and call her more. And, you know, we have to train that because our kids don't answer their phone anymore.
- [52:59]
A
They.
- [52:59]
B
They don't want to do that anymore.
- [53:01]
A
So much easier to send a text. And I'm guilty of it as well. I know. We all are.
- [53:05]
B
Yeah.
- [53:05]
A
But it's just a reminder to ourselves that we. We can do better. We really can.
- [53:10]
B
Well, and I even have an app. It's a voxer app, you know, and it's like a walkie talkie app. And I love using that more because at least you hear the voice.
- [53:18]
A
You.
- [53:18]
B
You. It's kind of like texting, but you're just talking, you know, and you. You get to do messages back and forth, and. And you hear that voice. And for a child to hear a mother's voice, it is very soothing. It is very therapeutic. I don't care how old you are, when you hear your mother's voice, it is very, very helpful. And so just think about that. If you have young kids, if you have teenagers, especially teenagers that are going through puberty right now, they need to hear your voice. They need lots of hugs. This is another tip that's really important. That technology has robbed us from the physical touch that we have. Even when I watch mothers, I'm a labor delivery nurse, and as I watch mothers, you know, when they're nursing their babies and they. They have their phone in one hand, Right. You see this all the time. You know exactly what I'm talking about. They've got the baby nursing, but they're not looking at the baby. And part of the whole nursing process is that bonding that happens, and they're bonding with Facebook instead. And then their baby grows up to have all these disorders and all these problems, and it's. Well, maybe because the bonding didn't happen, and then it all go back to this attachment. It feels like it just continues to point back to the attachment piece because we know that our prisons are not filled with people who were well attached to their families.
- [54:37]
A
Right.
- [54:39]
B
And all these things that we can do. Technology. Dr. Stacy, you agree? I agree that it can be so wonderful in so many ways. It can be convenient. It can be great when you're running a business, when you're running a practice, but it's not great at all ages and stages of life. It's just not.
- [54:56]
A
And one tip I forgot to mention earlier is that, you know, some of us have chosen the no smartphone route for our family, and our children have friends that. Whose families have made different choices. I want to encourage you that when you have those groups of kids together and you're in charge to make them keep their phones put away. Because technology use, when children get together in groups is dangerous for their development. They need to use that time to practice their communication skills, to learn to interact, entertain themselves without this outside influence. And so, you know, I think most of the kids that come over to our house know, okay, when you go to the Stacy's, you got to put your phone away. You can't have a phone. You know, it's like, oh, it's Dr. Stacy. You know, but, you know, I see them doing things they don't do other places. And, you know, I'm a. A volunteer coach for a dance team at a high school. And when we went to the state competition. No, it wasn't the state competition, but it was one of our weekend competitions where we had to spend the night. Yeah, we take their phones at night because they need to be laughing and bonding and growing together. Not watching Tick tock sucks. Right.
- [56:08]
B
And there's a regression that happens when they get together. Yeah, it gets worse.
- [56:13]
A
It.
- [56:14]
B
It's like the stranger. They get power in their number and they get more edgy and they get more daring and they're taking more risk. It's easier to take risk when you're with somebody else. Right. And it's not that it's all bad all the time, but what it's what it leads to and what it takes away. Just like you said, it takes away the bonding that's supposed to be happening
- [56:34]
A
in the team when I will tell you that my daughter is a competitive dancer, and she did end up quitting the team for a year because she felt like the girls just sat around on their phones during the breaks, and she felt like she was sort of left out. And that year off, I think, really helped her figure out that, know, what I need to do is really try to open myself up to these girls and try to encourage them to put their phones away. And I think that, you know, was a growing situation. It was painful in the moment because she really wanted to dance, but she felt kind of left out. And yeah, you see your kids suffering and that's hard for you, but there's growth in that. There's so much growth in that.
- [57:14]
B
I think the biggest tip, you know, that I'm gathering from you is to be strong in your resolve and not to be wishy washy and not to go back and forth and back and forth to realize that you are making the right decision. And your kids will come along, they will follow. There will be bumps, there will be some little speed bumps like when your twins are begging you for their phone, but you're going to be ready for those. And like I said in our, in our course, we kind of give you all the heads up and what to be prepared for. And I think as long as you're prepared and you know that, that now you know there are at least two other families on the planet. Of course there are many, many, many thousands of more, more parents. But you know that at least Dr. Stacy and Melanie are screen strong and our kids don't have phones. So when you talk to your kids, you can say, oh, no, no, there's other families that, that do this too. And strength in numbers really helps give us as we start to wrap up, I have so many other questions here, but let's let me give us your tips for families. So you had some tips you said for mindful families, I believe. Is that what it was?
- [58:21]
A
Yes. So we talked to our families about six ways to be mindful with your technology as a family. And like I said before, number one is start with yourself. So get together with the other adults in your household and talk about what you want to model to your kids. And this is an ongoing struggle and conversation for myself, for my husband, for every family that I know. Because you find yourself getting lost in your phones and especially when you're tired, it's into the day and maybe you opened it up to look at a recipe and the next thing you know you're on Twitter or whatever it is.
- [58:54]
B
Right.
- [58:55]
A
And if you find that yourself, you're having trouble with that, maybe consider a non smartphone as well.
- [59:01]
B
Oh yeah, I just had a mom get a gab phone. She's thrilled with it and she said this summer I'm going to use my Gap phone and I'm going to just forward my number to it and I'm not going to be distracted. What a great idea.
- [59:10]
A
Yeah, number Two is to remember that parents decide how much. And this is with tv, this is with video games, this is with smartphones, this is with other phones that aren't smartphones. The parents decide how much. And, you know, some of these phones, you can get that you can turn them off at a certain time or you can set time limits. We love the Circle device that you can put on your WI fi. That sets limits and it shuts the device off. Number three, parents decide when. So no phones in the car, no phones at the dinner table, no multitasking, which means, like, when you're doing your homework, you're not going to have your phone there with you. You're not going to have, you know, other distractions. Parents monitor the content and parent. And that's. Number four, parents monitor the content. So the kids need to know whatever you're doing, whether it's TV, smart TVs, phones, whatever, the parents are in charge. And if we find that you're doing things you shouldn't do, then that's it. You know, I mean, there's more. Number five, remember that screens are a privilege, not a right. And so if we don't feel like you're ready for that privilege, just like if you're not ready to drive a car and you're not ready to have a beer and you're not ready to stay home alone, I mean, you can fill in the blank. That's a. It's a privilege. And number six is to make active choices and to remain aware. So what that means is that you understand that these choices in your awareness is changing over time. And if you see that they're not following what you're asking, or if one of these decisions you made is not leading them in the right direction, you can change your mind because you're the parent and you can change your mind. If you've given them a smartphone, it's causing too many problems. You're going to take it away because you're making active choices. And so those are sort of the things we talk to our families about and the things we try to do in our home that help us to really monitor that. And, you know, if you think about it, Melanie, it's too bad that we have to spend this much time.
- [61:15]
B
I know.
- [61:15]
A
On this.
- [61:16]
B
I know.
- [61:17]
A
Because we should be outside building forts or going for a hike or, you know, cooking dinner together as a family or, you know, doing all these other things. Instead, we're spending all this time, we're
- [61:29]
B
taking all this energy, this creative energy as parents that we have to just pour into our kids lives and that creative energy is just being evaporated because we're having to deal with all of these number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 things here. You know, we do have to monitor our own stuff. We're trying to decide how much is okay. We're trying to monitor the multitasking and the homework and the content. And we're trying to make them understand this is not an entitlement thing. And we're. Do you take all that away? You just take that phone out of the picture and then you get to pour into your family traditions. And we, we did things like we did art camps in the backyard when our kids were little. You know, 12 boys in the backyard. Who would have thought, right, would have so much fun doing art and making things in the backyard. I was able to get much more creative with my parenting when I wasn't constantly fighting against, you know, what I used to call like the unwelcome visitor in our house. You know, that's how I felt. Video games was like inviting that kid over that you really need them to go home, you know, because they're not like being a good influence. You know who I'm talking about? Like, you know, you've had four kids, I've had four kids. We know sometime we have a kid over here that's like Debbie Downer. It's like, oh, she's having a bad day, she needs to go home. But when you're trying to parent with that, that screen in your house, that's what you're trying to parent around, almost like another bad influence. And so you take that away and then you can enjoy your kids again. That's one of our biggest goals. We want to have fun with our kids. We don't want to be in this constant state of being the gamecop mom, you know, which is what I was with my oldest son. I didn't like that job. I don't want that job anymore. And it turns out, just like you're saying that the people that come to your practice, the families that come to you for help, the answer is right under their nose. Like, it's not a drug. They can do this. You can take this away. I mean, I mean, the answer isn't a drug. Obviously the phone is acting like a drug. But you can do this. You have the power right now, today. Like today. You can start today. Now I would advise if you do have teenagers are on phones, that you do get the course or you get some sort of help with how to do that detox, it's going to be harder. But if you have a small kid, you can start today. You can turn that TV off even. And we're not against tv. But I did talk to a mom in our. Who's doing our course right now, and she just has littles, just between three, four and seven, I think, or five years old. And. And she said just turning the TV off for a week made such a difference in our house. The meltdowns just stopped. The arguing, the fighting, those short kind of attention spans all kind of got regulated again. And they're doing art, they're playing together, they're being nicer to each other. So it does affect their brains and their moods. How do you handle. Real quick as we wrap up, how do you handle a spouse who is not on board? Whether you're like, you might. We might have a mom or dad listening right now, and they don't know how to get their spouse on board. I mean, I think about this, and my husband was very supportive, as yours is, but it's hard when they're not. Or perhaps they're single parent. What do you recommend?
- [64:53]
A
So I think it's actually harder for. If you have a partner that's not supportive. You know, of course it's hard to be a single mom. It's amazingly hard. But if you're making the decisions in concert with someone who disagrees with you, it's. That's super hard. Yeah. And so, you know, we. We come across those things all the time in parenting. You know, things that you have a different view on than your spouse. But I think that one thing you can do is really try to help your partner become educated about why you feel this way. So show them some evidence. Talk to them about things or one. I had a family that we came across this recently, and one thing we talked about with them was, let's just try a week without. And for that particular family, it was television. They're one of these homes that, like, a lot are where TVs always on in the background. Yeah. The kids are, you know, watching a lot of tv. And so it was, let's do less than an hour a day. Let's just turn it off and try it. And that parent actually came back, you know, two weeks later and said, I see what you're talking about. You know, the kids are less on edge. They're, you know, a little bit more agreeable. Of course, their lives didn't change overnight.
- [66:09]
B
No.
- [66:09]
A
But they can see the difference. So I think maybe trying to say, let's Just try it. Let's just try it and see what happens.
- [66:18]
B
Well, we have that seven day detox on our site that you can reference there. You can go. And it is a seven day reset, you know, and you know, you could argue, you could say, well, you're not going to make permanent changes in seven days. No, you're not. You're absolutely not. But you're going to get a glimpse. And sometimes that's what your spouse needs. Sometimes they just need a glimpse. And so you can be the strong kind of silent type and say instead of getting into an argument, because this is the worst thing to argue over screen time and kids between spouses. It's a bad argument because it's just, it's just. Oh, it's just very frustrating. I feel your pain. If you're out there and you're having these arguments with your spouse, do not argue. Say, let's just try, let's just try this for a week. We can do anything for a week. And then don't say I told you so, whatever you do right. Don't say that. But just try to be positive. And I think the kids will look at it as a challenge. You know, we're going to try for a week. We're going to do this for a week. And instead what we're going to do, we're going to spend time outside. We're going to get, we're going to go to the big box store and get a fire pit, you know, spend 50 bucks and get a fire pit and we're going to roast marshmallows. You know, believe it or not, your kids will love it because remember, your kids want you to pick them. They want to be important in your life and they want to belong to your family. And you have to decide if all of the screen time is helping or hurting that. Cause that is your decision. That is your decision. It's not your kid's decision. And you are the coach of your family. They are not the coach of your family. So if you can get your spouse on board, however, which way you can do it listening to podcasts like this. Our course is designed specifically to be gone through as a family. So it's not like you have to read books because I know you can't just hand your spouse five books to read. That's not going to happen. But they do have to get educated. And the course is designed to be in a real easy to follow format where they can, you know, read and get educated without feeling like they're reading a ton of books. You know, they're getting the information across. So our final question. Super quick, and again, we're going to have you back for sure. We're. I want to have you back, like, on a regular basis. Like, we'll have. The doctor is in program and have you back.
- [68:30]
A
That would be wonderful.
- [68:31]
B
Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful for us, too? Because then we can have our audience ask you questions and all that. But this question that I got yesterday says, can you share information on what we can do as parents to reverse the damage done to our children who grew up with smartphones? We did monitoring and we did set guardrails, but in retrospect, we would not have allowed smartphones at all. Now we can only move forward with regret. So hoping to learn what we can do to repair the damage. I first give you a second to think about that, Dr. Stacy. But I just want to say, if you have not given your kids smartphones, hit the rewind button and listen to this question again. If this is not a reason for you to say no, I don't know what is. We have a whole generation now that has come through this bad experiment. I feel terrible for this mom. She believed the lie, just like I did with video games, and she gave her kids smartphones in high school when she thought she was doing the best thing. So, Dr. Stacy, what do we do? What. What can we do now? How can she. You know, I'm thinking of things. I'm going to be speaking with this mom. I want to call her and talk to her and. And help her with some ideas for her older kids. So they're in their 20 and 23. I think she told me so. But what practically in your. Like, if you had this patient sitting in front of you and she's like,
- [70:03]
A
melanie, I wish I had an answer for you. See, that's the hard thing about the situation we're in with this.
- [70:10]
B
Yeah.
- [70:11]
A
Is that you can't unsee. Right. So when you've seen things and this happens all the time, I see. You know, I work with patients who have had things happen to them over their life. You can't unsee.
- [70:24]
B
No.
- [70:25]
A
And so I wish I had an answer that was like, oh, well, you can do this or you can do that and everything will be great. And. And that's why I'm on the mission. I'm on is a mission of prevention, because I don't have a whole lot of advice for this mom. I mean, I'm here to support her and to, you know, look into this further and Try to figure out what we can do. But I think that it's a really hard question because once that's happened, yeah, the brain has changed. Right. And I'm not trying to be alarmist or you make crazy statements, but I think that that's what we have to recognize is that the less we can allow our kids access to these devices, the better off they'll be. Now, educating the kids is a great idea. So talking to them about all the things we've talked about on our podcast last week and our episode today about how these devices are affecting them and allowing the. Those young adults to have insight into the effects, and I do that all the time. We see a lot of college students because we're in a college town, and so we. We talk a lot with them. And I've had a number of those young adults delete social media and reduce their smartphone time and have greatly benefited from that. Just last week, we discharged two patients from our care because they, you know, they didn't need us anymore because we talked about getting off your phone and getting off social media, and they did all those things, and they felt so much better.
- [72:06]
B
It's so amazing to me how all of your cases just seem to be centered around these phones and these screens. It's fascinating in a very bad way. I mean, but it's. It's true, right? This is where all of our anxiety and stress is coming from. And for this mom, what I would say to her, since I've been in her shoes somewhat with my oldest for sure, is to start right now. Start right now. Like, as soon as you hang up this podcast and start thinking of ways to really build the attachment back with your kids. Because I think just about. This is a blanket statement, but just about every parenting issue can be solved by spending more time in the presence of your child. So. And this doesn't stop. So if your child is Even in their 20, early 20s, think of ways to spend more purposeful time together with them. That has nothing to do with technology. Stop texting them all this stuff. Say, maybe on Tuesday and Thursday we're going to go, I'm going to meet you for lunch. Or, you know, maybe they have a job or maybe they're in college, but maybe there's one one day a week. Or maybe there's just something, some kind of a regular connection that they can look forward to, that you will do everything in your power to be in their presence to say, you are important to me. I choose you. I. I'm taking my time and I'M spending it with you. It's where kids are. They're so lost, and they feel like they don't belong. And every single human being out there has to get this need met. And if they're not getting it met at home by their parents, are going to go find somewhere to get it met. And this is what's happening. They're. They're living in the virtual world and they're trying to get it met there. And of course, it doesn't meet their need. And so then they're anxious and stressed and lonely and all this is happening. So I would say the best tip right off the top of my head is to figure out a way to apologize and say, I am so sorry. I wish I could go back and recap all this time that this was my fault. But we're going to move on. We're going to start a fresh day. And it's today, and I choose you. I want to spend more time with you. I want to be in your life, and I want to get to know you better. And you are important to me. Isn't that what every child is begging for? Even when you're 20 years old?
- [74:32]
A
And. Yeah, even then. Say to your child, I want to help you learn who you truly are.
- [74:37]
B
Yes.
- [74:38]
A
Not who you are based on friends or like, or how you present yourself to a virtual world. So I want to help you with that. So what can I do to help you with that?
- [74:47]
B
Yeah. And to investigate other interests with them, have hobbies together and have traditions together with them. So important to do this when your kids are in their 20s. You know, do not, you know, this attachment thing. Your kids should never detach from your families.
- [75:03]
A
Sure.
- [75:04]
B
They got to be independent. Yeah. But they don't ever leave your family, like, emotionally. So you have to continue to build those bridges and you have to do it. They cannot do it. They are not able. And especially the more they have been on all the things we've talked about, all the social media and everything, the less that muscle has been developed. That empathy muscle isn't there. They don't even know how. So you have to continue to reach out. I am so thrilled to have you back on today, and I am absolutely thrilled to have you back on many more times. So if you are listening, be sure and send us some questions for Dr. Stacy, please. And we are so thrilled to have this new relationship. So final words of encouragement. We end every show with some positive things. So, Dr. Stacy, today we've talked about detoxing your kids, taking them off Saying no, go cold turkey, right? Just pull the plug and do it and have the confidence to do it. So, okay, we got our audience out there. They're ready. All right. They're going to do it this weekend. They're going to get the course, maybe they're going to get on and get the detox going. So what are you going to tell them? What is your final words of encouragement today?
- [76:13]
A
So I want to say that we need to remember that our greatest gift is the ability to think. So we must resist the urge to relinquish that gift to modern technology. But we just need to remember that the lives of our children are only as good as their relationship with, with themselves and that we want to be in control of who or what's an influencer in our children's lives.
- [76:38]
B
That is so encouraging. That is so empowering. Go team. Yes.
- [76:44]
A
And we're here to support these families and we want you to know you don't have to do it. If you haven't given your kid a smartphone. They're in fifth or sixth grade, seventh, eighth, ninth. You don't have to do it. You don't.
- [76:55]
B
And if you did, you can take it away. And we're going to help you and we're going to help you. But we can only do that if you join our community. Of course you have to get linked up and like I said at the beginning of the show, get the course and get your small group going. This will work very well in a small group. It boy, all you need is just a few people, right? And maybe today all you need is just the two of us to be your confidence. But when you get your small group going, oh my gosh, this you will look back and say, I can't believe we ever struggled with this before. And that's where you want to be and you want your friends to meet other kids, right, that are in screen strong family lifestyles so it doesn't take too many. Remember what Dr. Stacy said, they only need a few friends. So just go find a few and get your group going. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [77:43]
A
Thanks for having me. My pleasure.
- [77:45]
B
Can't wait to have you back. So I hope you all enjoyed listening today and visiting with Dr. Stacy again and I'm hoping that she will be a regular over here. Our parent online course, you know, is now available. So start planning your small group to create your tribe. And just like we talked today about the detox, we have a seven day detox that is very a glimpse that you can do. That's available on our site as well as at the 30 day detox. It's connected to our course. When you get the course and I would like to encourage everyone out there to take the summer off and quit arguing about even setting that kitchen timer, setting that kitchen timer and setting all these limits. It will drive you nuts. I think everybody needs a break. Take the summer off from video games, take the summer off from social media and even you as a mom try to start using it less. Like the moment that I talked to here locally that just got a gab phone for herself because she wants to go to the pool and enjoy her kids and not be tempted to be checking her social media all the time. So join our community and get support from like minded families. There are so many families just waiting to help out in the Facebook group. The name of the group is Screenstrong Families. Like I said, we are going to be creating an online forum to get us all off of social media very soon and get rid of those distractions. If you have any questions for Dr. Stacy, please email them. Please email teamcreenstrong.com and your homework is to share this podcast with at least five friends today. Let's get the word out so we can create our villages and our smaller tribes in our communities. And you know we can't do this without you. So please share our podcast. Remember, we've got your back and we are here to help you. So until next time, stand up for your kids, stand out from the crowd and stay strong.