← ScreenStrong Families
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Screenstrong Families Podcast, bringing you the best solutions for parents who are serious about eliminating screen problems in their homes. This is Melanie Hempe, and if you're one of our regular listeners, welcome back. And if you are a new friend, we are so glad you found us. Welcome. Welcome to Screen Strong. Now, many of you already know our story, but a quick recap is necessary for today's show. This show today is so exciting. I'm so happy that we're finally getting to do this. So let me give you a quick recap. Adam, the oldest of our four children, became addicted to video games right under our roof. And this was during the time when no one was talking about video games, or even screens, for that matter, being addictive. So Adam struggled all through middle school and high school and then eventually dropped out of college because he stayed his room in his dorm and he didn't finish his classes. Now, I know a lot of y' all know this story, but I've gotta. I've gotta just pull you in here on what my husband Chris and I decided to do once this happened. We had three younger kids at the house, Adam's siblings, Melissa, Andrew, and Evan, and we did not want them to fall into the same screen trap. We weren't exactly sure what we were doing yet, but we knew we weren't going to repeat the same screen mistake that we with their older brothers. So we changed things up for them, and we ended up skipping video games and social media and smartphones. And then Screenstrong was created as a result of all that effort that we found out that skipping these problematic screens really worked. But when Melissa was in seventh grade, it was around seventh grade, I remember so clearly being at a baseball game and talking to a mom of two older high school girls. Her girls were in 10th and 11th grade. And as you can only imagine, being the talker that I am, I was in the habit of asking moms around me with older kids what they did about phones. So I asked this mom about their home and how they handled smartphones in their home and when, you know, when did she get her daughter's smartphone? And anyway, she told me that she got both of them their smartphones in 8th grade. Now they were in 10th and 11th grade. Then the very next thing that she told me, and she was very candid about this, she told me that her daughters were both in therapy for something called social media depression, and they were both on medication. And I was like, wait a minute. What is social media depression? I hadn't heard of this thing before. And she said, oh, this is really common. She said, this happens to a lot of kids and they have to be on medication because they're really anxious and they get depressed and there's all kind of drama and all this stuff. So I sat there and I listened. And she said that about every two weeks, they had to go into the doctor to discuss problems that they were having on their previous week with the app they were using. And she described these very dramatic situations. And it was very much a matter of fact for her that this therapy was just part of their high school experience. And I, I was pretty shocked. She was very eager to give me the doctor's name. And she said, and I remember this very clearly, she said, when you get Melissa a phone, she will likely need medication. They all do. So I'm sitting there and she explained that her daughter's friends also were on medications. And that was really sticking with me. And I, I just remember thinking, how could this be such a good thing? And why were we giving kids devices and making decisions that required medication? So I asked the mom, why didn't you just take away the phone? And she said that the therapist said that teens had to learn how to use social media. It was the world that they lived in. And boy, did that sound familiar to me. Because when we were struggling with Adam's gaming problem, this is what the parents, you know, my friends, who were very well meaning at the time, but they all said, look, Melanie, this is just the way the world is. Video games are going to be there forever. He's going to have to learn how to manage all this stuff. But anyway, all that pain from our gaming mistake was still very fresh. And I knew that if I had a chance to. To do a do over, to get a do over with Adam, that I never would have allowed video games in our home. And so I had to start thinking, am I going to allow smartphones and social media? So I thanked this mom for sharing her story, and I decided to hold off. That kind of confirmed my decision that Melissa would not be getting a smartphone in eighth grade grade, that she would keep a flip phone. But it was good to hear that firsthand experience from a mom who'd been through it. So we waited. Then When Melissa turned 16, I was finally ready to give her a smartphone. I was having lunch with two moms with daughters the same age as Melissa was at the time. And the moms asked, hey, what was I giving Melissa for her birthday? And I said, you know, I think it's time I'm going to give her a smartphone. And boy did they nearly jump out of their chair. And they told me, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. They both agreed it was the worst decision, they said that they had ever made in the history of all of their parenting years. And that was pretty strong advice. They began to describe stories of endless selfies and texting and arguments and stupid posts and drama and lots of drama and mistakes and too many mistakes to mention. And by the end of lunch, I decided on a pair of boots for Melissa's birthday present that year instead of a phone. So if you haven't read my little book on this story, it's available on Amazon and in our Connect plus form. Actually, the ebook is there on our site, so you need to read it. It's really a short book, but it will give you some of this background and it will just kind of walk you through how we worked this decision in our home. And if you know the rest of the story, you know that Melissa thrived all through high school and even got a d, earned a D1 athletic scholarship for college. And today I have a real treat for you. Melissa has graduated from college and is launched. And she is here today to talk with us about growing up without a smartphone and how she made it through high school and how things are going now. And welcome Melissa.
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B
Hello. Hello. Happy to be here.
- [06:42]
A
You are here. Oh my goodness. I've wanted to do this for so long and we've had your brothers on and you've been so busy with school and work and getting situated and all that. So I'm so glad that you're here. This topic is so big, right? And it's just so hard to condense. Today, what I want you to do is help me go through just a couple things. We're going to talk about teen brain science for a second and then we're going to talk about why social media is so irresistible for teen girls especially, and about the specific dangers of social media for teens and then some myths. So we're going to do this quickly. We're going to run through and we just can't wait to hear from you and all of your wisdom here. So first of all, let's talk about teen brain science. Just an overview. There are things that are being even learned even now. Every day that goes by, we're learning more and more about the teenage brain. We used to think in science the teenage brain was like an adult brain. It was just smaller. But now we Know that it takes 25 years to fully connect that frontal cortex. And you're 25 years old. Right.
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B
Finally.
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A
There. So how does it feel?
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B
Did you feel.
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A
Does it feel like your frontal cortex is connected? Oh, my gosh.
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B
Maybe for the most part.
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A
For the most part, yeah.
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B
Okay. Okay.
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A
I know you still mentioned the other day you still needed parents.
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B
Yes, that's definite. Always.
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A
I think we all do. Yeah. But it does take a while. And I remember when you were probably in middle school, you were really upset one day because you couldn't find something and you were overreacting. And I ran upstairs because I thought you're, you know, you'd cut your arm off or something. Remember that? Yeah. And I said, melissa, calm down. Your frontal Cortez isn't working. You can borrow mine. And we all laughed and we thought that was really funny. And we've had debt laughter a lot, I guess, since then. But the teenage brain is a work in progress. And that's something a lot of parents get really frustrated with because they keep wanting their kids to be adults and. Right. And they're not adults yet, and it's okay. And we don't have to make our kids. We can't force them to be adults. And so we know that teenagers are very intelligent, but they're not mature. And we know that maturity has nothing to do with intelligence, and that's a really big key. We also know that with the teenage brain, there's, like, this all accelerator, no brakes. Like, everything is on go in it. And it's really hard to stop. Like, you know, it's really hard to put the brakes on because that frontal cortex is the area that allows us to do that. Right. And so talk about impulse control a minute and just, like, think about your brothers, even. I mean, we don't even.
- [09:15]
B
Oh, my goodness, think about you. They say sometimes.
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A
Yeah. Yeah.
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B
I mean, I would just say, like, for, like, where I'm at currently, like, of being 25, but now also almost 26. Yeah. I feel like the past year or a couple years, I've really been very aware of how, like, my actions are impacting, like, other people. And, like, I feel like with the development of your brain, like, you're developing that empathy. And so I feel like over the past couple years, like, I've been more aware of that than ever, like, growing up. And so I feel like, like, as you're growing up, you know, it's really hard to really put yourself in someone else's shoes and think, like, how are my actions or what I'M saying, like, making that person feel or like what they're going through, like, it's really hard to feel that for, like, the other person.
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A
Yeah, that's a really good point. And that, and that's because of that maturity. And it's really interesting. I just love talking to you right now about it because you're right there.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, and I don't remember When Adam turned 26, it was on his birthday and he came in the kitchen and he said, mom, you are getting so much smarter.
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B
Yeah. Like, I feel like I'm kind of at that point too where it's like, oh, yeah, like that, that does make sense for why you would react that way. Because then, like, I'm even looking ahead too, of like, okay, like, if I was a parent, I understand it now why you would react that way. And it's like, I feel like before, like, when you're a teenager growing up, you're just, you are just very absorbed in your own world and it's just hard to step outside of that. And so then therefore, I feel like, you know, with social media, it brings you further just into your own world, and it's harder to step out of that and embrace what's really going on around you and how you're impacting others. Yeah.
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A
And what you said a minute ago about empathy is.
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B
Yes.
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A
Like, that's a really good way to describe it. And, and I have heard before, I didn't make this up, but I've heard before that teenagers are belly button gazers.
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B
What is that?
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A
I think that's kind of funny because they're just looking at themselves all the time for sure. Right. They're just worried about themselves. And I remember telling all the teenagers in our house, including you, that, you know what, don't get so anxious and worried about what other people are thinking about you, because you know what? They're thinking about themselves. They're not exactly thinking about you.
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B
Yeah. But it's like a weird thing of like, I couldn't fully understand that until, like, recently.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Like, when you're still like a teenager and in the, in that phase of life, like, I feel like, you know, your parents, like, can say that, but it's.
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A
It just goes in one ear.
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B
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
What about the, the other couple things here about teenage brain development? This is a time, teenage. Being a teenager and all that is a time when you're trying to figure out your identity and you get super fascinated with what everybody else is doing because you're, you're trying on different ideas almost to see, do I like this? Am I this? Am I the athlete? Am I the nerd? You know, you obviously chose the athlete, right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
That was kind of your identity going through high school. So that actually really did help your brain develop a lot because your athletic abilities, you know, and sports, movement, exercise, all that is super good for brain development. But, but during that time when you're in high school and you're seeking your identity, you're craving this low effort, high reward activities. That, that constant stimulation is kind of what teenagers crave. And then they crave dopamine. And so dopamine during the teenage years, you're, you're very prone to addiction because dopamine is just really important. Like we, we. It's important for everybody. But without that, without the breaks, without the frontal cortex engaged, you're just seeking dopamine activity. Like everything you want to do that feels good. And, but that also means that, that you're kind of up and you're kind of down and there's lots of highs and lots of lows and that's kind of what happens during the teenage brain. And with that comes the fear of missing out. Talk about the fear of missing out a minute. You know, when you're a teenager, what does that feel like? Do you remember?
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B
Oh, gosh, is it too far ago? I mean, the fear of missing out? I don't know.
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A
Did you ever feel like that very much when you were.
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B
See, like that's the thing. Like, I feel like I didn't just because I was very like into my sport. I feel like I just didn't even have time to think about what I was missing out on. I mean, it's like a thing where like I can reflect now, like being out of my sport, like, oh, yeah, I might have missed that dance or
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A
I don't know, that party or the
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B
get together, like, but it just, it's nothing that really like got to me too much.
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A
So talk about, just for a minute, talk about what it, you know, what it was like. And kind of at the end, in a few minutes, we're going to talk about some myths. But right now, you know, what we went through with Adam. You were here, you were, you were older than the, even the Andrew and Evan, you know, and, and I think you lived through a lot of it, you know, and we were just trying really hard. I remember one year he, it was on, it was, it was on your birthday and he was down in the basement and I had to like go beg him to come up to your birthday. I'm like, this isn't normal. Right. And so I think. I think I. You know, I remember you saying. And I don't want to put words in your mouth at all, but I remember that you said even in high school, that you kind of missed having a big brother.
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B
Yeah, I think that was definitely, like, a general feeling that I had. Just. Yeah. Missing that connection with him and being able to, you know, bond over whatever activities or whatever we were doing at the house. Yeah, it was definitely something that I felt like, was missed, I guess. Yeah.
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A
So how did you feel? I mean, because you knew that we had so many problems with Adam and then, you know, with screens, and then you had a flip phone. Do you remember your flip phone?
- [16:08]
B
The good old razor? Yeah, the silver razor. That thing was awesome.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Wish we could get those back.
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B
That was great.
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A
That would be great. So how did you feel when all your, you know, friends had the fancy smartphones and you didn't? Do you remember?
- [16:26]
B
I mean, I definitely had moments of, like, wanting what they had just to feel, I guess, included in whatever was going down on their phones. I don't know. It never, like, got to a point where I felt like it was a constant problem. Like, like I said, I had prime moments, but I got over them pretty quick.
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A
And what about social media? Because you didn't have that.
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B
Yeah, didn't have social media. Like, I. I can look back, and I. I'm just, like, super grateful I didn't, because I think that that would have just. I don't know, it would have just been a major distraction in my life, and it would have just open doors to constantly, like, comparing myself to, like, other people, and it just would have really, like, taken a lot of, like, my mental energy, I feel like. And I. I feel like it would have taken away from just my actual relationships that I had with, like, you
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A
know, teammates or family.
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B
Like, I don't know. I just feel like I would have been pulled in too many directions and. And things like that.
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A
Well, it is like. Well, first of all, I just want to say it's good to hear that, you know, you're not permanently scarred because you didn't get social media.
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B
No, not in the slightest. No. Honestly, like, I. I'm going to be thanking y' all for the rest of my life that I didn't have social media, especially in middle school, high school.
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A
Well, you know, you don't have to say that, but.
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B
No, it's like, the truest thing, though. Like, I'm not even kidding well, and
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A
I think a lot of parents, even listening are just so worried, and they're like, oh, my gosh, my kids are gonna hate me. And we'll talk about that again in a minute. But. Yeah, but. But I want to touch on why social media is so irresistible. And even back then, but even more so today, there's this thing called persuasive design. And now that your. Your brain is more developed and your frontal cortex is, you can kind of understand this a lot better. And then you did study a lot of psychology in college, so I know that you understand some of this. But the persuasive design around screens, it's. It's a science that basically is the science of how to change someone's behavior using manipulative tools and tactics. And so, you know, it all started in the Skinner lab with, you know, mice. And they teach mice how to do certain things if you give them rewards. And then it goes through the years. And the history behind persuasive design is pretty fascinating. And. And I could do a whole nother podcast on that at some point, but just in general, a touch on it. The recipe to change someone's behavior requires them to do three things. The first thing is they have to be motivated. The second thing, the thing has to be simple. And then the third thing is that there has to be triggers. And so with social media just as a little crash course and persuasive design, let's start with motivation. So you are a girl, you used to be a teenager. I don't think it's that hard to remember some of these things. But even now, of course, with phone. So the motivation with social media is those little likes.
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B
Right.
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A
And the little hearts and the thumbs up and all that. And I always thought it was so weird they used hearts because I'm like, dang, of course. Who doesn't want a heart?
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B
Who doesn't want that? Yeah.
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A
And it's red.
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B
Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
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A
All excited. And so during this time when you're a teenager, when, you know, it's the most sensitive period of feeling left out and this high fear of not fitting in. You know, these likes, they. They just are very motivating because just think, if you didn't have your sport and all that going on, for some kids, this is all they had.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So this can become all they have for their significance. So. And it's. And it's very appealing for a teenage girl to belong to a group, but, you know, you had your team, so it was sort of a great replacement. I Think for social media. But this idea that girls out there, they want to belong to a group, they're, they have all this fear of being left out and not belonging. And then, you know, they get these likes. So they're super motivated. Okay, so now we have a teenager who's really motivated. Then we make the thing really simple. So doing social media is really easy. I mean, the learning curve, a four year old can do it. So you know, the learning curve is, you know, it's pretty low effort, high, high reward. Right. And so people generally don't like to learn new things if, if, if there's a lot of steps. So that's the second piece of this recipe. And then the third ingredient, I guess is the trigger. And so you know what that is? It's the bings and the little dings and the notifications. It was social media. They call it a hot trigger because the reason why they call it a hot trigger is because there's no waiting. Like, you know, TV commercial is a cold trigger. You see the cereal, oh, I want Captain Crunch or whatever it is, but you can't have it right away. You, you have to go to the store and get it.
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B
Yeah. So.
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A
But with social media, right.
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B
Get it instantly.
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A
Instant.
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B
Yeah, right.
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A
That's true.
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B
Yeah. I didn't, I didn't really even think of it that way.
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A
But yeah, so you put that, the formula is that you put that hot trigger, the thing that you can get instantly in front of, motivated, in this case, very vulnerable teens with almost zero impulse control and you've got disaster. It's really the formula just for disaster. And, and you know, I am so thankful that you had your sport. At the time. We didn't realize like how critical that was for you to focus on that and not just focus on social media. Because a lot of girls, like the mom I talked about at the beginning of the show, that was kind of their whole thing and that's kind of their life and that was all they did. And you know, you had friends that had anxiety. You had friends. Right. Talk about that just for a minute. What was. You have to give me names because you saw firsthand that, you know, girls especially right. Were getting kind of anxious about stuff. Yeah.
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B
I mean, there definitely was anxiety and drama. So I don't know, I feel like when that kind of just came up, like in the groups I was in, I, I don't know, I just felt like I was able to be like fairly just like level headed about all those things that they were getting amped
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A
up over and they would come and talk to you and ask your opinion. I remember this, you know, because you weren't in it.
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B
Yeah, I wasn't in it.
- [23:32]
A
So you were like, the third person out or whatever. Now that we're bringing this up, I remember a couple times when, you know, they would ask you, melissa, what should we do? You know, because, like, during this drama on social media, and because you weren't, like, in it, they wanted your opinion. Yeah. I thought that was really interesting then. And I feel like you were aware that some of your friends, you know, were having all this anxiety. The other thing that I feel like happened was when I would pick you up from school, you get in the car and come home before you went to the gym. Like, we had usually some minutes there. You would just start telling me all the stuff that happened.
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B
Unloading it. Yeah. Dumping it.
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A
Yeah, you would just like. But you know, what I learned later was that was, like, so good because, like, a lot of your friends weren't doing that. They were just dumping it on social media, and their mothers never even knew.
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B
That's true. Yeah. What was happening was actually going down. Yeah.
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A
And sometime during that, those middle school years, those. Those weirdly strange middle school years of seventh and eighth grade, you know, the moms would call me and say, what did Melissa say?
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B
Yeah.
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A
About something. Because, like, we know, you know, because she's talking to you. Yeah. She's telling you. And I just remember thinking, wow, that's so sad that your daughter doesn't talk to you in. Did I get all the tea from Melissa? Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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A
But I remember that you.
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B
Even then.
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A
Yeah. You would have it all bottled up during the day, and I.
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B
Well, I especially remember, like, I would also just unpack everything from the day, like, after practice.
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A
Right, right.
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B
Like, even the drama that came from practice. I. I felt like when I came home, like, I knew I could just, like, talk to y'. All. Right. You know, and, like. And then, therefore, I didn't need therapy. I didn't need to find someone to talk to. I had my parents to talk to, and they were. They were there to listen, so.
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A
Wow. What a good point.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So we were therapists all along. Yeah, I wasn't sure about that, but. No, that's a. That's a really good point. That's good. I'm glad. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because I think that I was so confused when this mom was telling me that her girls all had these therapists and they went every other week. And I'm Just like, oh, that's so weird. But yeah, but you know, being a teenager is hard. Growing up is hard. I mean, we all need people to talk to. And what will happen when your kids have a smartphone and when they have social media, they're going to use that. And then it's a very faulty tool. It's not. Doesn't love them unconditionally. It's like a big danger zone because they're dumping all their feelings in that platform and nobody really cares about them, including their peers. Their peers cannot care about them. And, and I have talked to some physicians that say they have girls in their office who become the online therapist for the problems online, you know, and, and they can't handle it, you know, and they start. Right. They start dealing with, I mean, you never had that pressure of having to be in the middle of something really serious online. And then the other people are, you know, saying don't tell your parents and then you're stuck. I mean that's just a terrible place to be in.
- [26:56]
B
Oh, I can't imagine that.
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A
Yeah, but that happens.
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B
It's like a big burden to take on. Yeah.
- [27:02]
A
There's a lot of kids right now that, that are maybe find themsel.
- [27:08]
B
Right. But, but they can get caught up in the storm of stuff. Yeah, yeah. And then they just like, once they feel like they're in it, like I'm sure that's a huge struggle to feel like, how do I get out of this? Or like what do I do?
- [27:24]
A
Yeah. Because they're not therapists, they're not adults. And these other teenagers are trying to, you know, maybe they're, they're doing self harm. Maybe it's anorexia. Maybe it's a suicide ideation or something in these other bystanders or getting the brunt of it and feeling the anxiety and the stress way too much, you know, for them to handle. So that's one, I think, one danger for sure. So let's talk about a few more dangers. So in your, like in your adult brain now, the age of 25, what do you think some of the biggest dangers are for social media for teenagers? Let's talk about a couple things.
- [28:08]
B
I would say that, I mean, just kind of what we were talking about earlier is it brings on just a lot of unneeded stress. Well, because I would say like for me, when I went to college, I did get like some social media and like Instagram, I had like Snapchat for like a little bit.
- [28:30]
A
But yeah, talk about that. So what happened when you turned 18. I gave you one of my old phones.
- [28:37]
B
Yeah.
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A
You went off to school.
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B
I mean, I feel like I. I got a glimpse of, you know, obviously what everyone was getting into, and, you know, I had those similar feelings of, like, oh, it's so great to, like, get the.
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A
Like.
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B
And that was nice. And that felt good for whatever post or. I don't know, Like, I guess to some degree, maybe I was like, oh, yeah. Like, now I have Snapchat, I can, you know, be included in these certain things that other people are doing. I don't know. But I. I also still just, like, had moments where I'm like, this is not, like, real or, like, actually fulfilling. And I. I felt like I was able to step outside of it and be like, how is this adding, like, value to my life?
- [29:31]
A
And you were 18, too.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
You had more of a mature.
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B
It was getting there.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah, yeah. And so I had moments like that where I was like, man, like, I. I don't really need to, like, engage in this stuff fully. Like, I had teammates that were just fully into it, and I don't know, I never felt the need to really get into it like that. Mm. And so then, you know, I, once I was out of college, deleted Snapchat. I already felt like I was too old for just, like, felt weird. I was like, I don't know why I have to send a picture of my face to people all the time. Like, what I'm doing. Like, that's just strange.
- [30:14]
A
Yeah.
- [30:15]
B
Like, am I gonna keep doing this until I'm, like, 70? Like, that's weird to think about, or.
- [30:20]
A
Yeah.
- [30:21]
B
Being old and having Snapchat. So I'm like, you know what? Let's just end it now. Like, you just be done with it.
- [30:26]
A
But it was easy for you to.
- [30:27]
B
And it was easy for me to do that because I had not fully been fully engrossed in it, like, at such a young age, you know?
- [30:35]
A
Yeah.
- [30:35]
B
So it was easy for me to step out of that and not have it.
- [30:39]
A
It wasn't part of your identity. You. You didn't feel like you lost your arm or something?
- [30:42]
B
No, exactly.
- [30:43]
A
Yeah.
- [30:43]
B
It wasn't exactly. So. And then with Instagram, I held onto it a little bit longer, and I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, how it's designed to be, like, addictive.
- [30:59]
A
Right. Just like we were talking about, it's very hard to get out of that persuasive design loop.
- [31:05]
B
Well, yeah, because, like, and then at that point, I wasn't even using it to like post anymore. I simply just had it because of like the reels, you know, similar to like the TikTok. It's like the short little videos. Some are funny. So you're like, oh, like this is funny. Yeah, it's funny. And then like, there's unpredictability. So you're like, oh, I'm excited for the next one.
- [31:26]
A
I don't know what it's gonna be. Right.
- [31:28]
B
You keep scrolling and it's like the endless scrolling and then you're like, wow, what have I done with the last two hours of my life? Like, yeah. And so then once again, at that point I was like talking to a friend and I was like, I just need to cut it all off. And so I got rid of Instagram and it was weird. Like the first, like three days I was like, oh man. Like, I missed the funny videos, like, you know, whatever. But after that third day, huh. I just felt like that stress and anxiety just kind of melt away. And like I just. There. It wasn't like I didn't like, need it. I wasn't anxious, like, for, I don't know, like, I just felt at peace and like it was a weird thing, but it's. I just like felt like I could almost like just breathe too and. Yeah. Not just be so caught up and like fast paced this and that, videos, whatever. Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.
- [32:32]
A
You're describing what happens when you get off the roller coaster.
- [32:35]
B
Yes.
- [32:36]
A
Right.
- [32:36]
B
And like you feel like your life slows down a little bit and then you can really just embrace what is going on around you, like in that moment. And like your mind is clear and I, you just, I feel like every interaction you have with someone is just more meaningful too. And like you just don't have like that cloud of, I don't know, needing this, like, fast paced fix of something, you know, and it just makes life more meaningful and.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that because it wasn't so ingrained in your adolescent brain, right. It was kind of a little more of a flash in the pan and. And I wasn't sure what was going to happen actually. But yeah, I know even when you got Instagram, you really didn't post that much. It. It was just things here and there. It wasn't like, I, you know, I could tell it wasn't taking over your life.
- [33:42]
B
No, yeah, you know, definitely you were. Yeah. But I would say, you know, for someone who's in middle school, high school, growing up, like that is something that could very easily take over your Time and consume every, I don't know, all of your time.
- [34:00]
A
Yeah, well, and that's one of the biggest dangers. So one of the biggest things is the time. And now because the persuasive design has gotten even stronger, it's like nine hours a day. And you can see how that just. I know, I know, but this is what's happening nine hours a day. Nine hours a day.
- [34:20]
B
I felt like wonky after like 30 minutes. I can't imagine. Well, see, but dedicating nine hours.
- [34:29]
A
That's right. And now it's like they, they. Teenagers are not only just on social media, but they're on multiple platforms. See, because it used to be.
- [34:40]
B
It's like how do you even feel present in your own.
- [34:43]
A
Well, you're not. And that's why the mental health problems and all anxiety has gone up so much is because no one is grounded anymore. They're living in this like virtual yes world and they got to keep all the things up. Now it's TikTok, it's Snapchat, it's Instagram, it's even Facebook still. It's keeping all that rolling and moving and staying up to be sure you didn't miss anything. Anything. It adds up. And then of course there's, you know, YouTube, you know, in Netflix, I mean, you know, Netflix. Then you know, that becomes a thing where it's the endless, it is binging, you know, of keeping up with all that. But it's like a full time job. It's more than a full time job and it's pushes out healthy habits. So when we're talking about the dangers of social media for teenagers, that is probably one of the biggest things. And, and then, then it's the content. So you got time and you got content and everything kind of fits under those kind of umbrellas. But the content, even if you were just watching purple unicorns, you know, even if it's silly cat videos or whatever, that the novelty and the, you know, other content, the novel content, the edgy content, the violent, the sexual, all this stuff is just a click away. And like I try to tell my audience all the time that the more edgy and the more sexual it is, especially for teenagers, it is like running after them, it's chasing them because the way the algorithms are and they. Crazy. Yeah. And they know they'll get more eyeballs if they make things more sexual. And you know, especially for younger ages and all that.
- [36:18]
B
Yeah.
- [36:18]
A
So the time and the content. Then of course there's a lack of sleep. That's a Huge problem for teenagers. You know, your body clock, when you're a teenager, is already getting pushed back. You already kind of stay up later, and, yeah, that's a problem because you need more sleep. So, yeah, the way the. The shift is for a teenager's body clock, they. They don't fall asleep as early, and so they end up with their screen and their bed and. Oh, my gosh. And I remember one time, you and I were on a trip with a bunch of teenage girls, and I was in the room, and everybody's phone is buzzing all night. I don't know if you remember. I couldn't even sleep. I'm like, what is going on? And I saw it firsthand, like, all the notifications going off. We were in some hotel room for a trip, and there were, like, five people.
- [37:05]
B
Was it like, for like a gym meet?
- [37:06]
A
Yeah, probably. And I just remember thinking, how do these kids sleep? Because they don't really turn their. They're sleeping with their phones. And that was just crazy. So that whole lack of sleep. And then, of course, there's a lack of exercise, because when you're on a screen, it's super hard to exercise. Right? It's like, you can't. It's, like, impossible. But you got tons of exercise. And that was something that, of course, I think was really helpful for your teenage years. And then you already talked about the stress, so the mental health issues. That's like a huge problem. We talked about building a brand. We've talked about that before on the show, about how stressful it is for a young kid to build a brand on social media, because that's what they're doing every day. You're worried about every single little thing, you know, that you're wearing that you're saying, you know, if your hair is right, if your acne is acting up. I mean, there's all the things. And that's very, very stressful, which leads to this stunted kind of social development. And I noticed that with some of your friends when you were in high school.
- [38:11]
B
Oh, I bet. I bet you did. Yeah.
- [38:15]
A
I mean, I just. Now when I think about it, I did. I never saw you as being stunted socially. You could have fun with anybody. You laughed a lot. You. Yeah, but there were. You had some friends that had a lot of anxiety around social things. Things. Yeah, like talk. Can you talk about that for a minute?
- [38:33]
B
Yeah.
- [38:34]
A
I mean, wasn't that weird?
- [38:37]
B
Yeah, I. I definitely had some friends in high school that it was just hard for them to communicate. Right.
- [38:48]
A
And just feel Comfortable with boys?
- [38:50]
B
Like, feeling. Yeah. Comfortable.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah.
- [38:52]
B
Around boys or just like, anyone or. Yeah. I mean, I had. He had that one situation where I just was, like, the third wheel for one of my friends, like, all the time, because she just could not, like, just go, like, on a date with this guy, like, without having someone there. And I'm just like, why are you bringing me into this?
- [39:17]
A
Because you were so social. I know.
- [39:19]
B
I guess so. Yeah.
- [39:20]
A
Because you could talk.
- [39:22]
B
Yeah, that's true. I could just, like, you know, relieve, I guess, whatever anxiety that she was having about the whole thing.
- [39:29]
A
I know I never really knew it back then, but now when I look back, I'm thinking you. You had a few friends that really struggled, and I think that having social media and they all had social media, I think. I think you were one of the few, if not one of the only, that didn't have social media. Everybody had social media, but back then, and. Yeah, they do now, too, of course.
- [39:51]
B
But. Well, that's something I feel like I could also speak to is, like, seeing the eq, I guess you could say the emotional skills and communication, it. It just is severely lacking for a lot of people. And it really. It does, like, boggle my mind of, like, you can't. You can't even have, like, a simple conversation and, like, look me in the eye. Like, what. What is happening here? Like, you're all getting bit, like, just been out of shape, having a simple interaction, and, like, you just feel, like, how nervous they are, and it's like. Like, just.
- [40:34]
A
Yeah, you get that. You feel that vibe, right? Yes, I get that vibe.
- [40:37]
B
And I'm like, just settle down. Like, it's okay. We're good here. Like, we're just talking. Like, it's.
- [40:43]
A
I don't know, but it's something that has to be practiced, and I guess so.
- [40:46]
B
And I. I guess I had that foundation and I was able to build that in middle school. High school.
- [40:52]
A
Yeah, you have to build it in middle school because, I mean, can you imagine going to college? You went to college, and you probably saw people that were, like, having a really hard time.
- [41:02]
B
Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:05]
A
I remember one time you had some friends over down in the basement, and you came upstairs, you said, mom, they're all down there, but they're all on their phone.
- [41:16]
B
Oh, I remember that. That did happen.
- [41:18]
A
Yeah. And that.
- [41:19]
B
That, you know, that went into college as well. Like, we would sometimes, you know, go out to dinner after a practice or something. More than half of my teammates are on their phones, and I'm like, Guys, like, let's enjoy our company. Like, we're here having a nice dinner. Like, why you can't even, like, just talk. Like, we're all just sitting here in silence. Like, this is a weird interaction. Like, I came here so that we could all.
- [41:49]
A
Yeah.
- [41:49]
B
Like, enjoy each other's company and.
- [41:51]
A
Right.
- [41:51]
B
Have conversations. But. Yeah. So I. That was something that even carried into college as well. Yeah.
- [41:58]
A
I remember when you. I hadn't thought about that in a while, but I remember that was really frustrating. And we'd get downstairs and I would say, well, let's tell them to get off their phones. And.
- [42:08]
B
Yeah, no, that's coming back to me. Yeah.
- [42:10]
A
Yeah. And I. I just remember thinking that that was so rude, you know, for teenagers to be ignoring other people in the room, especially when they were, like, over at your house. Like, they were over here, you know? But all of that. All the things that we're talking about lead to probably the worst thing, honestly, about this loop that kids get stuck in on their social media and their phones, and it is the reduced family attachment piece in that premature shift from, you know, they're. They're leaving their family kind of too early and jumping over on that social media and on that smartphone, all the platforms on there. It really causes just, like, a deficit. It's a detachment. And you mentioned it. Even when you were coming, you know, when you came home, you would talk to us a lot. And, you know, we had our moments all through your teenage years. I mean, nothing is perfect. But I do feel like, you know, we. We tried to have dinner every night. We tried to talk to y' all a lot. We tried to be part of your life. We went to all your stuff. You know, we tried to. We. We. We. We have a lot of family humor. We have, like, funny things that we do in our family and traditions and stuff like that. But I think that that's one of the. The biggest things that is the biggest danger for teenagers. They get detached too early. That is one thing. I feel like. I don't know if you can speak to that. Just. Just your attachment, I felt was pretty, you know, pretty strong. I mean. Yeah. You know, I. Like, you said a minute ago that you felt like you could talk to us and.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah.
- [43:56]
A
Yeah.
- [43:56]
B
I mean, I. I feel like I definitely, yeah, could talk to you guys. And I think because of that. Because we had that dynamic in that relationship that, like, even through the tough times or, like, you know, when you guys would say something that I didn't really agree with or, like. Like, for example, like, having to switch gyms and. Right. To all that. Right. I think because we still had that bond and that attachment or whatever.
- [44:29]
A
Right. Right.
- [44:30]
B
I. Even though I was mad at the time, in the moment.
- [44:34]
A
Right.
- [44:35]
B
I still had that, like, feeling like I trusted you guys, you know, and, like, I was gonna. I was gonna trust it, try it out anyways, see what happens, whatever. And that was like. Like the best decision that was, like, ever made. I don't know.
- [44:52]
A
Yeah. And you can see how that trust really breaks down when kids lose that. You know, they. When. When they start trusting their social media instead.
- [45:00]
B
Instead. Exactly. Yeah.
- [45:03]
A
So let's talk about some myths, and we'll end here. Oh, no. We're gonna also talk about some practical steps because we want to hear from you what you think parents could do or get you a few things there. But. But some of the myths. You know, let's just zoom through this really quick. These are just very common. We. We practically just hear these all the time. There's four or five really common myths that parents bring up a lot when they're trying, you know, to say, well, I have to give my kids a phone because if I don't, they won't have any friends. My teens are going to hate me. They're going to binge, whatever. So let's talk about. They won't have any friends, obviously. You. You feel like you had friends.
- [45:42]
B
Oh, yeah, No, I definitely. I had friends for sure.
- [45:46]
A
Friends now.
- [45:47]
B
Yes, I do. Thank goodness. Yeah.
- [45:50]
A
Yay.
- [45:51]
B
Yeah.
- [45:52]
A
Okay.
- [45:55]
B
Yeah, I. You definitely will still have friends for sure. I mean, you know, for me, a lot of my friends came, you know, from my teammates.
- [46:08]
A
It's good to have different pockets of friends.
- [46:10]
B
Yeah. So, like, those were big, but, you know, I had my. My few friends in high school, too, that were good.
- [46:17]
A
Well, one thing we learned that I've learned recently is that we. We only need about four or five friends. Like you don't need a hundred friends.
- [46:26]
B
Oh, no. I would much rather have the two quality friends than a hundred just kind of fake out there, people you don't really know? Yeah.
- [46:36]
A
And with your team, you know, we. I remember how. This is so funny. I just remembered this, too. Remember that thing that we had your whole team over and we did that party where we got the lady to come teach you how to decorate a cake?
- [46:50]
B
It was for my birthday. Yeah.
- [46:52]
A
Yeah.
- [46:52]
B
That was a lot of fun.
- [46:53]
A
I love that we did things like that. And I feel like that your friends really enjoyed those kind of.
- [47:00]
B
They loved it.
- [47:01]
A
I know.
- [47:02]
B
Yeah.
- [47:02]
A
And they probably still Remember it, right?
- [47:04]
B
Yeah.
- [47:04]
A
So how often are you going to remember? Oh, remember that time we were on Snapchat together? Like, gosh, no.
- [47:10]
B
No, no one's gonna remember that.
- [47:11]
A
Honestly, remember that.
- [47:13]
B
Yeah.
- [47:14]
A
Okay. So another myth is that my teen will hate me. So I know I'm your parent and I'm sitting right here and you don't really have to say that you didn't hate us, but I really don't feel like you hated us because you didn't have a smartphone.
- [47:29]
B
No, no, not at all.
- [47:31]
A
Yeah.
- [47:31]
B
Yeah.
- [47:32]
A
I think that's kind of this weird thing, but it's a fear that a lot of parents have. And you know what I learned? And I probably said this to you one time. I know I've said it to the boys if they got mad at me or mom, I hate you. I don't think you ever said that. But you know, I remember one time, one of the teenagers in our house, I don't know which one it was, and I said, well, you know what? I don't really like you right now. Can you imagine me saying that? I remember saying that. So you have to keep, keep this in perspective. We cannot get on our kids roller coasters.
- [48:05]
B
That's true.
- [48:05]
A
When they start saying things like they hate.
- [48:08]
B
Well, because I feel like it's a thing of. Once again, at that age, it's very hard to regulate emotions. And so, yeah, you're gonna, the teenagers are gonna lash out or whatever. They're gonna say stuff. And like, for me, I feel like if I ever did have moments where I was mad at you guys, like, you just, you take some time and you, you come down from that and you're like, oh, I didn't really need to get mad like that or you know what I'm saying?
- [48:36]
A
Yeah.
- [48:37]
B
But I, it's honestly just like a whole chemical reaction going on. I feel like it's a roller coaster. It's a roller coaster with, with all that. And so it was never a thing of like, oh, I hate you guys, you know, like, sincerely, like, hated. I never, it was never that. It's just. Yeah. You're trying to figure out how to regulate your thoughts, emotions, whatever, and, and think ahead.
- [49:05]
A
Yeah, it's very hard. And it's very, very hard to think ahead.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah. To do that. But.
- [49:12]
A
But it, it's getting easier now.
- [49:13]
B
Yes.
- [49:15]
A
It's nice to see that kind of, you know, progression because honestly, I think there's some 25 year olds that are still stuck like at 15, you know, because they haven't kind of Learned all the things they need to learn.
- [49:27]
B
Yeah.
- [49:28]
A
When they're teenagers. So another myth is that if you don't give your kids social media and you know, smartphones through their high school years, that they're going to binge and go crazy now. You know, you, you did get on Instagram when you went to call and I, that was fine. I knew you were gonna do that. But I would not say it was like a binge thing.
- [49:51]
B
Far from it. I, I felt like overall. Yeah. When I had those platforms, I, it was like a thing of. In summary, it was just like I dipped my toes in. I was like, like, okay, yeah, like it's kind of cool, whatever, did it for a while. But I never, I feel like I never got fully just immersed in it and it just was like an all consuming thing. Yeah. I, and I just was able to see it for what it was and I was able to be like, yep, okay, had it, but I can leave it.
- [50:31]
A
Right.
- [50:31]
B
Like, yeah. I never felt like I jumped off the deep end to it and just went nuts with it. I don't know.
- [50:38]
A
I think this is such a huge myth. Yeah, that's.
- [50:42]
B
Yeah.
- [50:42]
A
Because I know with Adam, you know, he binged on video games, but you know, he'd been playing video games all through, you know, it's like you keep doing what you've always done.
- [50:54]
B
Yep, that makes sense. Yeah.
- [50:55]
A
So he, you know, little gamers, I always say, grew up to be big gamers and you know, he just kept getting worse and worse. Especially when it's an addictive thing like social media and gaming, it's much easier to continue to do that until like continue to binge. Right. But if like you said that was a good way that you worded that, that it just wasn't really your thing and. Oh, I know another myth is that that kids are going to be over protected and not prepared like for the real world. So. Talk about that a minute. I mean, I don't know if I've ever talked to you about that. If you felt like not prepared or overprotected or something.
- [51:34]
B
I never like felt that way where like you, you. I felt like I was more ready to take on the world by like not having it because you just don't like have this like false reality clouding like your views on the, the world. I don't know.
- [51:55]
A
So you felt more prepared?
- [51:57]
B
Yeah, I would see, I was the opposite. I did feel more prepared. Yeah.
- [52:01]
A
I do think that kids that are raised without the crutch of smartphones and you know Social media and video games and all that. That they are more prepared and research is really clear on that too. They're more independent thinkers. Like, you can, you think more independently. You, you do things differently because you're not copying everything that you see out there. You're kind of becoming your, and, and
- [52:28]
B
because you've been able to practice your social interactions with people. And so then therefore, I, I feel like, yeah, you kind of become the independent thing, thinker. And then, you know, like, if, if someone's telling you something that doesn't seem right, like you can like, kind of trust your, your gut more.
- [52:51]
A
Right. Because you're not always guessing.
- [52:53]
B
Because you're not always. Yeah. Guessing.
- [52:55]
A
That makes sense.
- [52:56]
B
Yeah.
- [52:57]
A
And, and because when there's like a million opinions out there about something, you get confused.
- [53:01]
B
Exactly. Exactly. Yes. When you eliminate that and you just have your foundation of, you know what,
- [53:11]
A
like your family, you've grown up with.
- [53:13]
B
Yeah. With your family and what they've taught you, like, I don't know, you, you are more prepared. Yeah. To face differing opinions or what have you.
- [53:26]
A
Well, you've had more experience.
- [53:27]
B
Yeah.
- [53:28]
A
In the real world.
- [53:29]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [53:31]
A
So, yeah, that, that, that's a really good point. The whole, the whole point about not living in a constant state of confusion because that, that causes so much anxiety. And this is why kids are just failing and just really struggling. So what can parents do? Let's wrap up with some practical things. I mean, what are some practical things that parents can do? So obviously the first thing, they can
- [53:57]
B
just, number one, say no, just don't do it. Like, like I said before, I will always look back and be thankful that my parents said no because it just, like, has helped tremendously. I don't know. Yeah.
- [54:17]
A
Great. And I, and I, you can disclose I have not paid you any amount of cash to say that. No.
- [54:24]
B
Not in any way. Yeah. Nope.
- [54:27]
A
Oh, that's really good to hear that you feel that way. I, I, I totally agree that kids that are raised without smartphones and social media during that 48 months of high school, you know, during middle school, and that 48 months of high school, there are just nothing but benefits that follow. And, and they will always look back and, and say thank you. Maybe not in the moment, you know, not. Right.
- [54:54]
B
That's the thing, too. Parents or whoever's out there, they may not thank you in the moment, but I can guarantee they're going to thank you later. Like, that's just all I have to say. Yeah. If you are taking anything, like, just take that. Like, just Take that. Yeah.
- [55:11]
A
Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's just one of those things that has a delayed, you know, gratification.
- [55:18]
B
Y. Yeah.
- [55:21]
A
I think the next thing that parents can do, too, is just get this idea out of your head that your teenagers need privacy on their phones or on their devices or even on their laptops. You really need to always know what your kids are doing online. I don't need to know what you're doing online right now, but when you were a teenager, I really needed to know, and every parent really needs to know. First of all, you can't parent and coach them if you don't know what they're doing. But this idea that teenagers need privacy on a phone is a myth. Yeah, Is a myth. And I think one of the best things that you can do is to put guardrails up and, you know, flip phones are great and you can still get them, but just be sure they don't connect to the Internet. They can have privacy while they're on a voice phone call talking to their friends. They can have privacy when their friends come over. They have privacy in other areas of their life, but certainly not on screen, because the whole entire universe knows what your kid is doing. But you, if you don't find out.
- [56:22]
B
Well, like, that's the thing, too, is. Yeah, it's super important, I think, for parents to know what's going on, because then there's kind of like, that built in. Then, like, accountability.
- [56:37]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [56:38]
B
You know, and so. So then for me, like, now or like, when I had. When I still had Instagram, and I would be, like, scrolling through, like, the reels, whatever, and then, like, going back to, like, the content, you know, like, overall funny videos, whatever, that sort of thing. Every now and then, something would pop up that was just very inappropriate, and I'm like, okay, I didn't, like, ask for that. Or, like, I don't know how that got there. Like, what in the world?
- [57:07]
A
Yeah.
- [57:08]
B
But I saw it for. Once again, I saw it for what it was, and I was like, whoa. Like, this is serious. And it's like, I don't want to see this. Yeah. But being older, I was able to control that. And, like, therefore, like, I was. I chose, like, I'm done with this. Then, like, I deleted it. Like, I'm not about.
- [57:26]
A
Right.
- [57:26]
B
But when you're younger, you can't. It's hard to, like, be in that mode of thinking of, like, ooh, like, that was bad for you.
- [57:36]
A
Or is that better?
- [57:37]
B
And, like, what. What do I. What should I do with that, that's where you, you do need your parents to know what's going on. They'll, they'll help you with that. And so because I had that, I feel like now like growing up, I can, you know, sift through things or like.
- [57:52]
A
Yeah. Just be more discerning. Yes.
- [57:54]
B
Be more discerning.
- [57:56]
A
So that's, that's. So what you're describing is that teenagers desperately need accountability.
- [58:01]
B
Yeah.
- [58:01]
A
And it doesn't need to be another teenager.
- [58:04]
B
No.
- [58:05]
A
That's a bad idea.
- [58:06]
B
No. Yeah, that's where all the problems come. No. Yeah.
- [58:12]
A
Oh my goodness. Okay, so let's go over just a couple more things before. Okay. So what else can parents do? What, what are a couple other things that parents can do? Just practical steps for them right now they have a teenager.
- [58:25]
B
Yeah. You definitely got to focus on just building other life skills. The, the emotional, the eq, that's, that's huge. Finding any type of situation where you can work on that. You know, go, go out to dinner with your family, make your kids order, interact with the people with the servers. You know, little things like that. Build it over time.
- [58:55]
A
Yeah. And chores.
- [58:56]
B
Chores. Yeah.
- [58:58]
A
Routines around laundry and cooking and all the life skills, you know. Yeah, the, the life skills for the EQ I think is the most important because, you know, EQ is more important even than academic skills.
- [59:10]
B
Yeah.
- [59:10]
A
Believe it or not.
- [59:11]
B
Well, yeah. Side, side thing. I know this is like really random, but I. So I recently started a little part time job kind of as a receptionist, whatever for this company. And I feel like I have a lot of like really good, like soft skills, you know, like where I'm really good, you can read the room, reading the room, interacting with my co workers, whoever's coming into the clinic, that sort of thing. And I feel like that was something that had to be built like over time.
- [59:51]
A
Yeah.
- [59:53]
B
And, and you know, and having those kind of skills gives me confidence to then learn maybe like the harder skills, you know, that actually come with the job, whatever. But yeah, it all builds. Yeah, it does.
- [60:10]
A
It has to be practice. You can't just, you know, do this overnight. It has to be practiced. So focusing on those skills when your kids, you know, now are in high school.
- [60:21]
B
Right.
- [60:21]
A
So important. It is so important because that's.
- [60:24]
B
Yeah, it's going to carry over for the rest of your life. And like I've already had other co workers that are just not that way and they're very, yeah. Just like kind of closed off and not super personable. And I think other people, like, they feel that you know, and so it. Yeah, having that emotional skill or whatever. Yeah, it will just benefit you for the rest of your life.
- [60:50]
A
Yeah, no, it is. Some of these things are so simple, but yeah, they're really powerful. I think another thing that parents can do is to find a couple friends, you know, get some support. Maybe find another couple friends in your kids school or just in your neighborhood that want to do this green, strong kind of lifestyle and not live on social media, not have all their social time, you know, on that. Keep keeping a daily schedule is also, I think, really important when you have teenagers or any age, kids, you know, for that matter. Time has a way of getting away from us, especially now when we're all on screens. We're all kind of distracted with it. So just keeping that daily schedule and staying busy and I think that was a, a very big benefit for you. You were working toward a goal.
- [61:42]
B
Yes. Love that. Right. Favorite thing ever.
- [61:45]
A
Yeah.
- [61:45]
B
Working towards the goal.
- [61:46]
A
Working toward a goal. And you did that from an early age. Yeah, Melissa was. I will brag on you a minute. Melissa was actually recruited into the D1 program when she was in 10th grade. So she was working super hard. Right. You were working really hard on that mindset of having a schedule. And you got real organized with your homework and with all the things you had to do because you were at practice every single night and you were busy, but you were managing it all really well. And that builds those executive function skills. So anything that you can do in your home to help build executive function skills are really important. Remember, the younger that you do it, the easier it is to do. The more it sticks and the more permanent it's going to be.
- [62:30]
B
I agree with that. Yeah.
- [62:32]
A
So you are now getting the benefits of the hard work and the grit and the things that you did, you know, when you were a teenager. And none of it included spending more time on a screen and none of it.
- [62:42]
B
Exactly.
- [62:43]
A
But we had family movie nights and we, we are not a screen free family. But yeah, thanks to Adam and we thank him often, we were able to adjust our screen, you know, life here. And we did raise three teenagers without video games and smartphones and social media. And then I think the final thing that I'll just add that parents, what can you do out there? Is to really focus on building family traditions. And especially this time of year, as things start to ramp up for the holidays, we think of it more often, you know, during holidays, but it's really important to have traditions really just the whole year through and to think of Ways to build family attachment. And we do have, in our parent course, we have a whole section in the solutions piece where we go through lots and lots of ideas about how to do that. So I suggest that you get that and learn more about it. So, Melissa, let's end. We have to end. We're getting kind of long here, so let's end. Can you offer any encouragement for a parent? And I put you. I'm putting you on the spot. I put everybody on the spot. Okay. So if there's a parent listening right now and their kid is really struggling on social media, they have a girl, they have a daughter, and she's having all kind of problems, and they know what they have to do. They know they have to take it away. How can you encourage them? What's one thing you can say to them if they were sitting right here?
- [64:10]
B
You can't give in to your fears of they're not going to like you anymore if you have to take the device away. Like, you have to be confident in your role, you know, as a parent and I don't know, go forward with. With that and, and just. Yeah. Being confident and strong in that. I don't know.
- [64:35]
A
It's hard. No, no, I appreciate that. I think that's really good.
- [64:41]
B
Yeah.
- [64:41]
A
Advice. They have to stick to their guns.
- [64:44]
B
You have to stick to your guns and understand it, that it's not going to be a quick, like, turn around, like, you know. Yeah, you're gonna go through, like, a rough patch and you. But you have to understand that there is hope at the end of it all, you know? And, yeah, like, like I said, in that moment, your child just may be so mad at you and kicking and screaming, whatever, but even give it a couple days, few weeks, whatever, and like, it's going to be okay. And then at some point, I can't tell you when, but at some point they're. They're gonna look back and they're gonna thank you. And that, like, that is a very, I think, like, sincere thing. I think that that will happen. So.
- [65:36]
A
Yeah, that's really encouraging.
- [65:38]
B
Yeah. Thank you.
- [65:40]
A
Because parents get, you know, they have feelings too, and, and it. And they get their feelings hurt. Right.
- [65:45]
B
Yeah.
- [65:45]
A
Parents, I mean, this is tough. It's so tough. But delaying the inevitable and trying to work with persuasive design is impossible. You. Your kid is not able to withstand that. Nobody is. It's not fair to put that on them. So that's really encouraging. Melissa, thank you so much for coming. Yeah, of course. Glad I could do it. Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Been trying for so long, and I know. Finally made it happen. And we'll definitely have you back on when we have other questions.
- [66:20]
B
Sure. Yeah.
- [66:21]
A
Little kids and big kids and all that to help us. So thank you so much.
- [66:26]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [66:27]
A
So your homework today is to check out our Connect plus group. That is the subscription area of our site. We are starting some new webinars over there. You want to get in there and get your questions answered. This is really a unique opportunity where we bring physicians in and they'll answer your questions. So please get over there and check that out. And you can also go to our site to see the sample educational courses that we have for students and for parents. You know, be sure and tell your school that we have a student course now. And if you have any questions for Melissa, you can send them to team at Screenstrong and we will bring her maybe. Melissa, will you join us on a webinar sometime?
- [67:12]
B
Sure, why not?
- [67:13]
A
In our connection. Yeah. And y' all can get your teenagers to come?
- [67:18]
B
Sure.
- [67:18]
A
They can, like, ask Melissa questions?
- [67:21]
B
Yeah, why not?
- [67:22]
A
Yeah, sure, we'll do that. Thank you again so much for coming.
- [67:27]
B
Of course.
- [67:28]
A
Remember, we've got your back and we are here to help. So until next time. Time, stand up for your kids and skip social media and smartphones in high school and stand out from the crowd and stay strong.