From World Records to Screen Limits: Thriving Beyond Tech with Rob McLeod (#215)

Summary

Podcast Summary: ScreenStrong Families

Episode: From World Records to Screen Limits: Thriving Beyond Tech with Rob McLeod (#215)
Host: Mandy Hammond (on behalf of Melanie Hempe, BSN)
Guest: Rob “Frisbee Rob” McLeod
Date: November 6, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes Rob McLeod, a 13-time Guinness World Record holder better known as “Frisbee Rob,” newly certified ScreenStrong Ambassador, motivational speaker, and passionate advocate for youth wellness, active living, and healthier relationships with technology. Rob shares his journey from late-blooming frisbee athlete to global school presenter, and brings insight into fostering resilient, balanced, screen-strong youth.

This family-friendly, conversational episode is filled with practical strategies for parents, stories from Rob’s workshops, and a wealth of inspiration for empowering kids beyond screens.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rob’s Backstory and Mission

• Late Start, Endless Growth:
  • Rob didn’t begin playing Frisbee until after high school, demonstrating “it’s never too late to start something new” (03:31).
• Journey to Frisbee Rob:
  • Became “Ultimate Rob” through Ultimate Frisbee, then “Frisbee Rob” as he explored the wider world of flying disc sports and began school presentations (04:47).
• Teacher and Coach at Heart:
  • Rob has always been an educator—even as a child—and now combines athletics with lessons in resilience and healthy tech use in schools (05:05).

2. What Has—and Hasn’t—Changed in Kids Over the Years

• Consistent Joy in Play:
  • Despite the changing tech landscape, “what hasn’t changed is that kids love to play and love to be around each other” (08:18).
• The Impact of Screens:
  • Rob notes significant change in students’ out-of-school lives and how it affects their engagement in physical and social activities (08:50).
• Message Consistency Matters:
  • The core lesson from a decade of school visits: “Whatever you talk about consistently will matter and will stick” (09:49).

3. Core Messages for Kids: Rob’s Mini-Presentation [10:00–13:16]

• Best Effort Always:
  • “When I actually attempt a Guinness World Record, I’m not trying to break the Guinness World Record. I’m just trying to beat my own best.” (10:22)
  • Encourages kids to focus on personal growth and effort, not perfection.
• School as a Team:
  • Borrowed from ScreenStrong training:
    • School is their “team,” teachers are “coaches,” classmates are “teammates.”
    • At home, parents are the “coaches”; kids have responsibilities (e.g., getting enough sleep) (11:09).
• Focus on What You CAN Do:
  • “Instead of saying, ‘Don’t play video games,’ let’s instead say, ‘Let’s do puzzles, let’s be outside, let’s read, let’s draw...’” (12:41)
  • Language matters: reinforce behaviors you want to see.

4. The Power of Positive Language and Challenging Kids

• Show, Don’t Just Tell:
  • Rob demonstrates failure and learning during assemblies, normalizing setbacks and promoting resilience (13:32).
• Safe Failing and Real Growth:
  • “We’re setting them up to fail by not letting them fail.” (14:13)
  • Kids need opportunities to confront and overcome mistakes in a safe, supportive environment.
• Make Hard Things Fun—or Understand Why They Matter:
  • Sometimes hard things can’t be made fun, but knowing their importance drives motivation (14:18).

5. Screens, Brain Development, and Identity

• Staggering Screen Stats:
  • “From 8th to 12th grade... the average time... is about 16,000 hours. That’s nine and a half hours a day...” (16:56, Host)
  • “It takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. What do you want to be an expert at?” (16:56, Host)
• Opportunity Cost:
  • “If you think about adding that nine hours a day of screens, we’re not adding time... we’re taking away from sleep, dinners, exercising, spending time with friends.” (17:49)
• The Myth of Multitasking:
  • “Multitasking is not actually a thing—it’s task switching.” (18:51)
• Phone-Free Workshops and Policy:
  • No phones in Rob’s workshops—sometimes a challenge, but provides genuine interaction (19:02).
  • Emphasis on the need for clear, consistent school policy from the top down (19:06).

6. Policy and Real Limits: Trends in Canada and Beyond

• Global Phone-Free Momentum:
  • Canada, like the US, sees increasing interest in phone bans, yet many partial measures leave gaps (“still allowed at recess and lunch... when you actually want them connecting with people.”) (20:28, 20:48)
• App Dangers & Augmented Reality:
  • “That’s why some of these apps are so dangerous, like Snapchat. They want to make it more fun to talk to your friends using Snapchat than in real life. But we’ll never replace people.” (20:50)

7. Stories & Impactful Moments

• Kids Taking Initiative:
  • A 5-year-old went screen-free for two weeks after Rob’s unplugged challenge (21:49).
  • Sometimes kids take the message farther than intended, sparking important family conversations (21:49).
• Modeling Matters:
  • Kids often see parents on their phones; parental modeling is critical (23:28).
• Parental Monitoring vs. Boundaries:
  • “There’s a lot of people whose messages are all about having parents monitor phone use. And that is so much effort... Jonathan Haidt talks about it really well where he says we should be overprotecting online and underprotecting offline.” (24:25)
• Tragic Consequences:
  • Rob shares an Ontario story emphasizing that true protection means device boundaries at night (24:34).

8. Conflict-Free Homes: The Power of Device-Free Periods

• Easier Than Expected:
  • When devices are removed, “so many parents come back... and say, ‘There were no conflicts. This is amazing.’” (25:25)
• Rapid Rebound:
  • Younger children tend to “snap back so fast” to creative, active living once given the chance (25:43).

9. Peer Life Skills and Natural Consequences

• Kids Must Make Mistakes:
  • Risks and mistakes are critical for social and emotional development; over-intervention deprives them of self-confidence (27:10–31:37).
• Teach Autonomy:
  • “If you do [rescue] enough times, you’re robbing kids of autonomy.” (33:03)
• Adults as Lifeguards—not Helicopters:
  • “Adults in general need to be more of a lifeguard and just let kids play, have fun. They’re gonna get hurt, but they need to learn that now instead of when they’re 17, 18 years old.” (30:20)

10. Encouragement for Parents: Hope, Not Shame

• Stop the Guilt-Laden Messaging:
  • Parents are “overwhelmed... and just feel like they’re awful parents. They need solutions.” (33:48)
• ScreenStrong’s Positive Approach:
  • “ScreenStrong... gives parents hope and practical ideas: not just restriction, but compelling alternatives.” (33:48–34:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Picking Up a New Skill Later in Life:
  • “You can become good at something, even if you start it when you're older. It's really never too late to start something new.” – Rob (03:31)
• On Consistency:
  • “Whatever you talk about consistently will matter and will stick.” – Rob (09:49)
• On Positive Language:
  • “If you tell somebody, 'Don't play video games,' they're going to think about not playing video games, and then they want to play the video games... Instead, focus on what they can take part in.” – Rob (12:41)
• On Failure:
  • “We're setting them up to fail by not letting them fail.” – Rob (14:13)
• On Parental Roles:
  • “At home, the parents are the coach, not their best friend or teammate.” – Rob (11:28)
• On the Challenge for Parents:
  • “Monitoring phone use... that's so much effort, and you're gonna get it wrong...” – Rob (24:25)
• Jonathan Haidt’s Principle:
  • “We should be overprotecting online and underprotecting offline.” – Quoted by Rob (24:33)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rob’s Introduction and Background: 02:22–05:00
• How Kids (and Schools) Have Changed: 07:52–09:51
• Mini Version of Rob’s Talk – Core Messages: 10:02–13:16
• Positive Language & Safe Failing: 13:32–15:09
• Screen Time, Brain Development & Opportunity Cost: 16:56–19:02
• Policy Issues and Device-Free Movements: 19:02–21:32
• Stories of Impact: 21:49–22:57
• Parental Modeling & Monitoring: 23:28–25:18
• Resilience, Autonomy, and Letting Kids Struggle: 27:10–33:03
• Hope for Parents, Not Shame: 33:31–34:31
• Final Advice for Parents: 34:31–35:16

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Actionable Advice & Takeaways

• Shift Language to Focus on Positives:
  • Instead of “don’t do this,” emphasize “do that”—what’s possible and rewarding.
• Lead by Example:
  • Kids follow parental cues for healthy device use.
• Enforce Device-Free Zones and Policies:
  • Structure and clarity help kids and teachers alike.
• Let Kids Struggle and Fail Safely:
  • Growth, confidence, and practical life skills come from real-world, real-time practice—not digital escapes.
• Prioritize Connection:
  • The greatest memories—and skills—are made together, offline.
• If Implementing Change, Start Small:
  • Even a single quality frisbee and a family walk or game are a step in the right direction.

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Resources

• Find Rob: Search “Frisbee Rob” online (700+ videos, resources, frisbee recommendations) [35:20].
• ScreenStrong Programs & Curriculum:
  • For families and teachers: “Kids’ Brains and Screens” and related resources at ScreenStrong.org
• Recommended Books & Talks:
  • “The Demise of Guys” (TED Talk, Philip Zimbardo), “Anxious Generation” (Jonathan Haidt), “Alone Together” (Sherry Turkle), “The Wright Brothers” (David McCullough)

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Final Encouragement from Rob

"Focus on what you can do instead of what you cannot do... come up with all these ideas about what you can do instead: hiking, spending time as a family, reading, discovering, exploring... Think about what you can do instead of what you can’t do." – Rob (34:31)

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For more info, ScreenStrong workshops, or to become an ambassador, visit ScreenStrong.org.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Screenstrong Families Podcast, bringing you the best solutions for parents who are serious about eliminating screen conflicts in their homes. This is Mandy Hammond, ambassador, liaison and speaker on the Screenstrong team, and I'm so glad you're joining us today. If you're one of our regular listeners, welcome back. And if you are a new friend who we have met recently, welcome. You are going to love the Screenstrong Families Podcast as you embark on this journey of rethinking screens in your home. Our hope is to educate you, empower you, and encourage you with every single episode. So today's episode I'm super excited about. This is going to be one that you can listen to with your kids as a family, with your teenagers. I'm going to be talking with a Guinness Book World record holder, Rob McLeod, also known as Frisbee Rob. Okay, this is. This is super fun. So Rob just completed his certification through our Screen Strong Ambassador program, and he's joined our team of global ambassadors in spreading the Screen Strong message. So I'm going to start off by reading his bio from his website and then we'll get started. I just figured this was the best way to introduce him. So, Rob McLeod, widely recognized as Frisbee Rob, is a passionate advocate for youth development, healthy screen habits, and physical activity. As a motivational speaker, Rob has visited more than 550 schools and spoken to over 200,000 kids in the last decade, sharing powerful messages about the importance of balancing technology use with active, engaged living. Featured in the 2024, 2015, and 2014 Guinness World Records books, Rob holds 13 Guinness World Records and the Canadian distance record in flying disc sports. He uses these achievements to inspire resilience, personal growth, and leadership in people of all ages. In addition to his achievements in Frisbee, Rob is a board member of the World Flying Disc Federation, promoting the sport across 100 PL countries. Through his engaging talks and interactive demonstrations, he fosters environments that encourage students to thrive both physically and mentally, helping them build healthier relationships with technology and discover the joy of movement. Welcome, Rob, to the Screenstrong Families Podcast.

[B]

Thanks for having me on. I'm super excited for this.

[A]

Yes, me too. So I got to meet Rob, I don't know, a month or two ago when we started interviewing for this round of ambassadors that we just onboarded. And if you don't know much about our ambassador program, it's just a way for others to get involved and spread the Screen Strong message. And so Rob came to us and said, look, I'm Already doing this. I would love to put in a section about screens and, you know, your challenge and all of that. So we're going to talk a little bit about that today and kind of talk about what Rob does. So before we jump into all the questions I have, you know, is there anything else you want to tell the audience about yourself outside of your bio, kind of what you're doing now? Anything you want to share?

[B]

Well, what I love is that when we started chatting, I was recently staying in, I think, your hometown on one of my big Frisbee trips.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So that was kind of a neat thing. It's. I live in Canada, but I travel all over North America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was a nice connection to chat about that.

[A]

It was so fun. So tell me, what do you do? Like, what do you do as Frisbee Rob and what kind of. Maybe let's just start with what got you in to being Frisbee Rob. How did you become Frisbee Rob? That's what we all want to know.

[B]

Sure. So I actually didn't start playing Frisbee until after high school.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

And I think that's a really important message for. For everyone is you can become good at something, even if you start it when you're older. And so it's really never too. Never too late to start something new.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so my path with sports was basically everything except Frisbee. And then I started playing Frisbee after high school, and I taught myself how to throw before YouTube existed.

[A]

Oh, wow, that's impressive. So that's a great story right there.

[B]

I found a website that talks a bit about some of the throws, some of the grips, and then I went into a field and taught myself how to throw. And I really didn't spend a ton of time on tech either before university. So growing up, played a few video games, but mostly with sports. And then I learned a ton about technology my first year university, living with two cousins who are both really big into computers and engineering. And so it's neat to reflect back. And Steve Jobs talks about connecting the dots. And so for me, getting outside and playing Frisbee was a really nice way to discover something and stay active when I was away from home. But then also learning technology in a way that benefited my life was also very interesting. And so, yeah, Frisbee Rob didn't happen until about 10 years after I started playing Frisbee.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was known as Ultimate Rob first. So Ultimate Frisbee was my first passion in Frisbee, and then learned about all the Other things that are possible with Frisbee. And then I became Frisbee Rob, and that's been my brand for the last 11 years.

[A]

That's great. So what inspired you then, to get in front of kids, talk about this?

[B]

Yeah, I've been. I've been teaching and coaching kids since I was young. You know, one of my sort of first memories was we. We say grade five in Canada. In the U.S. you say fifth grade. So in fifth grade, I was teaching kids how to. How to figure. And then soccer and hockey, track and field. I taught swimming. And so I was a coach. I was a teacher with kids when I was a kid. And so I think you really learn how to. How to be around kids when you're a kid. Yeah, and that really carried on. And then when I first moved out west, away from everything back home, so Eastern Canada to Western Canada, it's quite a distance. It's kind of like New York to Seattle, I guess it's quite a ways away. And I actually started coaching and teaching, well, teaching figure skating again. And it was just really interesting that I left it for a while. And in my mind as a kid, I always wanted to be an athlete. And I am an athlete. I always will be an athlete. But a part of that was also passing on the knowledge. And so when I set my first Guinness World Record, started talking to more people about it, was asked to go to a group of kids and talk about a little bit about what I did. And So I loved PowerPoint. So I created a PowerPoint presentation with some of the messages that really helped me get to where I am today. And then I also talked a bit about Frisbee. And so that presentation just started evolving and started going into schools, doing the presentation, teaching Frisbee. And yeah, 11 years later, I've been about 600 schools.

[A]

How many schools?

[B]

It's been about 600 schools now.

[A]

Oh, my goodness, that is crazy. And how you just call the principal and say, hey, I want to come talk to your kids about what they can do with the Frisbee. Like, what is your message? I want to hear this.

[B]

Yeah, so it's really evolved over the years. I've learned a lot about what schools are looking for. And so in the beginning, I really talked about social and emotional learning, resiliency, growth, mindset, kindness, anti bullying. So really, who I am today has been driven a lot by that. Just trying different messaging and literally being able to do a different assembly every day. Just trying something. It didn't work, or I talked to a principal, talked To a teacher, read something. I do a lot of reading audiobook wise, when I'm driving. So I've learned a lot from a lot of really smart people, which is how I came to find out about Screenstrong and actually did my own sort of get unplugged challenge in schools for quite a few years to over 200 schools. And so, yeah, really, it's just been a lot of trial and error of what messaging, you know, works in schools, what doesn't work, how it lands, hearing feedback from teachers, seeing messages on the walls. You go to some schools, they have tons of posters all over the wall. So it's like, okay, that's what they're saying matters, but is that actually what they're talking about? So, yeah, just really having those conversations with them.

[A]

Yeah. So in your experience so far these years, speaking in schools, what's changed in the, what'd you say, 11 years that you've done this? What have you seen that has changed in students? Like, because you mostly talk to K through eighth. So like, what have you seen? Because over the last 10 years, when I talk to teachers or anybody that's in the schools, you know, they'll definitely say, oh my goodness, there's a huge change, usually because of personal devices. What have you seen?

[B]

So it's an interesting question. And I think part of the question too is what hasn't changed? And so for me, what hasn't changed is that kids love to play and they love to just be around each other. And so whenever they come into my workshops, that hasn't changed. And so I don't get to see a ton of outside of my workshops. Sometimes I'll be in the hallways and seeing kids on their phones or their screens. But I definitely know that I've heard from, I've talked to thousands of parents about this. Most teachers are parents. A lot of friends who are parents. My sister's a parent of two kids, my nephews. And so I know that at home a lot of things have changed. I've read the books that have the research and so I think that has had an impact on how they show up in phys ed for sure, in my workshops. But at the same time, yeah, I think that will never change. And so it's, you know, addressing those concerns at home, in the evenings, during school hours that is really, you know, why we're here. But yeah, I think it's interesting to look at what hasn't changed. And so what I've learned about education is that there's not one message that works because if there was, then every school would be doing it. So every school, every city, every. It's just completely different everywhere. And I think the biggest thing that I've learned is whatever you talk about consistently will matter and will stick. And so it doesn't matter really what the message is. As long as everyone believes in it and. And just buys into it, then that's going to actually work. And so I think that's the biggest thing, is just being consistent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is the biggest thing.

[A]

No, that's really good. Okay, so if you were to do like a mini version of your talk to kids, would you. Could you give us a sample of that right now for any kids?

[B]

I've actually really, like, tweaked my messaging the last couple weeks, partly because of the screen strong training. And so my main three messages are what I call best effort always. And So I have 13 Guinness World Records, but when I actually attempt to Guinness World Record, I'm not trying to break the Guinness World Record. I'm just trying to beat my own best.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so I encourage kids, when they show up in my classes, I just want them to try their best. And if they fail, that's okay. We learn from failing. Another message, and this one came directly from the screen. Strong lifestyle course, which I absolutely love. And being an athlete, this really resonates with me, and I think a lot of kids as well, is that the school is their team, the teachers are the coaches, and their classmates are their teammates. That's good. So, and this really relates to at home as well. So I'll ask the kids, you know, are your parents your coaches or your teammates? And it's really important for them to understand that, because as much as a parent, for example, might set their bedtime, it's up to the kids to actually get to sleep. You know, their parents are not sitting in the bedroom for eight hours staring at their kid, making sure they're sleeping right? So it's saying this is your bedtime, but when you're in bed, that kid now has a responsibility to sleep. Just like, you know, at school, your teacher is going to teach you math, but they're not going to learn the math. They're not going to do the math. You have to do it. And it's so many of these. So many kids understand this from sports. Like, you might play hockey or volleyball or soccer. And so you're going to do drills. Your coach is going to help you do that. But if you want to get better, if you want to learn how to be A soccer player, you have to practice by yourself or with your friends. Your coach can't just teach you, and then magically, you know how to play soccer. And so I really think it just helps people show up a little bit differently that way. I think it also helps empower teachers, understanding that they are the coach, they're not one of the classmates. And I going back to that screen, strong lifestyle, I think it also helps knowing that the parents are the coach, not, you know, their best friend or not their teammate. And and then the last part is what I've added in newly again. And it used to be the unplugged challenge years ago, but now it's the screen strong challenge. And so a big part of my message is whatever we focus on or whatever we talk about will happen. And so there's been a big shift in schools moving away from anti bullying to be kind, because if we tell kids to stop bullying, they're going to want to bully. They focus on bullying. But if you talk about kindness, they're going to focus on kindness. And so for me, the screen strong challenge is, here's the things we don't want you to do, but instead of saying, don't play video games, let's instead say, let's do puzzles, let's be outside, let's read, let's draw, let's do all these other things. Because if you tell somebody, don't play video games, they're going to think about not playing video games, and then they want to play the video games. And so instead of them thinking about what they're missing out on, they're actually focusing on what they can take part in, which is a lot. And it's just a simple thing. Like, if a kid's running down the hallway, the teacher should say, just walk instead of don't run.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If I want to get better at catching a Frisbee, I should tell myself, just catch instead of don't drop. And the only way to get better at that is to practice telling yourself that and actually using that language.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so then we can actually focus on what we can do instead of what we cannot do.

[A]

Love that. No, that's so true. That's so true. So what are some of the things that you tell kids? Like, are you in your assemblies? Are you also, obviously you're motivating them through your speech, but are you showing them all your tricks?

[B]

Yeah. And so my vehicle is Frisbee. And so while I'm talking about failing and learning, I actually show them me failing, and I fail Quite a bit sometimes. And I drop the Frisbee, and I talk about how I get upset when I fail, and it's okay if they get upset, but it's important we learn from that. And so I think one of the challenges in schools as well, which I think has changed over the years for sure, is that a lot of schools basically don't fail kids until grade 10. And so we're talking about resiliency, and it's okay to fail, but then we're not failing kids until grade 10. And so I've been to some schools where there's been some middle school students who show up for two days, and then they pass to the next grade.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

This is not helping them at all. We're setting them up to fail by not letting them fail.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And so what I do with Frisbee is I let them fail in a safe, fun way. Yeah, they're not going to get in trouble for failing. They're not going to be, you know, not passing the grade because they dropped the Frisbee. And it's just. And. And we also talk about hard things. A lot of schools talk about we can do hard things, but what does that actually mean? And so I try to make hard things fun. And I. That used to be my sort of main message about hard things, but then a principal also said, sometimes you can't make a hard thing fun, so you have to realize why it's important to do that hard thing, to do it. So that's really the message to kids, is try to make it fun. And if you can't make it fun, realize why it's important. And ultimately, they have to take responsibility for a lot of this. And it's making it fun, not making it hard on them and saying, you know, you have to do it this way. It's enjoying that it's their responsibility that they can do all these things.

[A]

So true. And in a world where their brain is trained for the fun because of devices, I think it's really important for us to give kids these opportunities in real life to have fun doing the hard things and to see the reward that you get for that. I mean, if you practice Frisbee or basketball or soccer or whatever every single day and you get better at it, that's a huge reward at the end.

[B]

Yeah. And like Philip Zimbardo talked about this, he did a TED talk called the Demise of Guys. And that's a big part of why I started sharing this message in schools is just realizing the importance of regulating or getting away from screens as much as possible. And, you know, so if you sit in front of a screen playing video games, the Average boy plays 10,000 hours by the time he's 18. You're getting really good at sitting by yourself in front of a screen. And that's not, that's not fulfilling. You know, it's. There's so many things like the average boy by the time he's 31, I guess he's not a boy at 31, but the average boy at 31 is living at home and the average girl at 31 is living with a partner. So, you know, there's some real serious things happening. Boys just are basically remove themselves from society. This idea of shyness. And so my initial challenge was called Unplugged, but it was that messaging where I was focusing on what I wanted them to do, which was getting away from screens. But I wanted it to be more positive. So I actually changed it to Kindness challenge. Sherry Turkle talks with this that if you take away screens for five days, empathy actually increases. And so literally decreasing screen time increases kindness. So my, my thought was call it the kindness challenge because we decrease screen time, we're going to get people to be more kind looking at each other. And so, you know, that's why I love the Screenstrong message. It's called screen strong. It's not called, you know, get away from screens.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Well, and we have, you're Talking about the 10,000 hours we tell kids in our student curriculum. And I'm looking at a bookmark right now on my desk that says 16,000 hours. And it's a great visual to tell kids like, hey, and parents too. But from 8th to 12th grade, the average time that a child or a teenager spending on a screen is about 16,000 hours. When you do the math, when it's about nine and a half hours a day is the average, at least our nation average. And it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. So it's really asking, you know, kids, students, parents, what do you want to be an expert at? Do you want to be an expert at sitting in front of your screen, you know, for 10,000 hours? That's not going to get you very far. And you're not going to have a lot of memories. I mean, if you talk to gamers that are in their 20s or 30s, you know, looking back at their childhood, they don't have a ton of solid core memories because your brain's not remembering what you're doing on a Screen.

[B]

Yeah, I really think Screenstrong talks about this in a lot of the courses about the pruning of the brain. So what it's not using, it's getting rid of. And so that's, that's a huge part I think as well. Like, you know, this idea of nine hours a day on screens, this is something that's relatively new over the last, I think Jonathan Haidt talks about it since around 2012, 2013, when smartphones came out. And if you think about adding that nine hours a day of screens, we're not adding time to our day. We're still in a 24 hour day. And so where are we taking time away from? We're taking away from sleep, from dinners with families, from exercising, from spending time with friends and family. And so if we added nine hours to the day, that might be different, but we're not. And so it's just this matter of subtracting all the time, of the more time you spend doing this, you're taking away from someone somewhere else. And it's not just the time, it's also the impact on the brain, the attention, focus away from it. You know that we. Multitasking is not actually a thing. Right. It's task switching. And so it's. Yeah, yeah, I see this all the time in schools for sure, especially in high schools, just how drawn the kids are to phones. And so my rule in my workshops is no phones at all.

[A]

Oh, good. So you actually do that and they, they put them away.

[B]

I do and there's definitely a battle sometimes. But what I find is the beginning of the school year, schools are really good at that. And then by the time May or June comes around, they've just basically given up and they've just stopped fighting it. And so I read somewhere that, and it made a lot of sense that if you have, you know, a national rule or a national law, if you have a provincial or state law, if you have a citywide or district, so basically the more granular the law, the more people have to be involved. And so if the national rule is no phones at all, then that's easy. But if you say it's up to every single teacher, that's just so much extra effort on their plate to come up with a policy. So it's best to have a policy as high as possible that can then filter down everywhere instead of saying like it's up to every single teacher, every single class. It's going to be very inconsistent. And it's just so much effort, additional effort that just doesn't it just takes away from everything?

[A]

Well, it just puts the teachers in a really bad position to have to manage and kind of be a parent almost in that moment. And, you know, I don't know, it's. That's a very hard place for teachers to be. Do you have a lot of schools in Canada going phone free or that are phone free? I know after the Anxious Generation, Jonathan Haidt's book came out, there's a lot of schools here in the US and around the globe that are saying, all right, no more phones, we're banning them. Do you guys. Have you experienced that in Canada?

[B]

Yeah, I think there's been a movement already for a while. I live in Alberta, and apparently there's this Alberta law that they're saying that no phones at all, but minor sending is that it's only during class time that they're still allowed recess and lunch, which is the time when you don't want them on because you actually want time with people. So I'm like, it's only.

[A]

You want them moving their bodies?

[B]

Yeah, it's like for them to be in the hallways messaging each other, like, just get them to look up and away from people. Like. And that's why some of these apps are so dangerous, like Snapchat, because they want to make it more fun to talk to your friends using Snapchat than it is to actually talk to them. That's why all these filters exist. So people want to try these filters, but that's not real life, trying to make real life more exciting. We're trying to make sort of, you know, augmented reality, fake life, virtual reality, more enticing, engaging than real life. And we'll never replace people. That's the thing. As much as we try and have all these fun things that you can do or fun feeling things, it'll never replace just the pure joy of being with people.

[A]

Yep, that's so true. So do you have any stories off the top of your head? I'm putting on the spot here, but any stories of successes or kids that have come back to you and said, hey, you inspired me, or I'm going to change what I'm doing because of what you said? Like, do you have anybody that stands out in your mind?

[B]

Yeah, there was one years ago when I was doing my plug challenge, and this. At one point, I would challenge kids to go an hour, you know, a day, set some limits. But this one in particular, I was saying, basically, see how long you can go without a screen. I think it was. And the school Came back to me and I think it was a boy in grade one. He would have been five years old, I think at the time. And he basically went two weeks without any screens at all. And his parents ended up buying him a bunch of Frisbees and rewarded him with a bunch of stuff. But I remember my first thought was, that's, that shouldn't be his responsibility. Yeah, that should be up to the parents. And so it was cool that this kid did it because he basically kids would come home and tell their parents like Frisbee, Rob says, we can't watch tv. And I'm like, that wasn't the message. But I remember I heard about a kid too who would stand with his back to the TV while his family was watching TV because he said, because we were upset, I can't watch tv. So it's interesting, like hearing my message and how I want it delivered and then how kids take it back. Yeah, but if that generates conversation, then I'm fine with that.

[A]

Yeah. No, and I mean, I agree whenever I talk to students, especially if they're around that fifth and sixth grade age, I just love, they raise their hand at some point. They're like, we're on a screen right now, we're looking at a screen. Especially if I'm doing it via webinar or something, you know, and so I'm always like, listen to what I'm saying. Not all screens are bad, you know, but I think, don't you think, especially that age, and I mean, goodness, five is pretty young. But those elementary age kiddos, they really want to do well. Like they don't want to be addicted to this stuff. Don't you agree?

[B]

Yeah, and I, I just see the impact. I remember years ago at a friend's place and she had three kids and she was on her phone the whole time and she was justifying it by saying, you know, I'm doing social media, you know, I'm messaging fans, whatever. But her kids were just, they just gave up. Like they weren't even trying to bother having a conversation with her. And it was just really sad to see that. But yeah, I hear from a lot of kids and I can even ask questions like how many of your parents, you know, text while they drive and all the kids hands. So yeah, you know, it's, it's just interesting how, how much the model is set at home for sure. And, and like you said, it's not about no screens at all. It's not that screens are bad. It's some people say, you know, Is it a tool or a toy? But you know, discerning I think is important. But at the same time there's a lot of people whose messages are all about having parents monitor phone use. And that is so much effort.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you're gonna get it wrong. And Jonathan Haidt talks about it really well where he says we should be overprotecting online and under protecting offline.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right now it's the opposite. And so there was this a horrible story in Ontario where there was a 12 year old boy who was sex thwarted at about 2 in the morning and ended up committing suicide. And awful story. And my first thought, my first impression was, is why was he on his phone at 2 in the morning?

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

Like you're giving, you're giving people access to your kid who should not have access to your kid. And so it's just, and again, trying to have empathy for parents who. I was talking recently to a teacher who has four boys between the ages of 10 and 16 and it's just a battle all the time. You know, they're trying to do homework on their laptop, but they're switching between games constantly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so how does she monitor that? It's just, it's just too much. And when do you actually have joy with your kids? Because you're just fighting this battle all the time.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, that's what Screen Strong's message is all about. We want to help you eliminate conflicts. And I don't think parents realize until they go through like our 30 day screenstorm challenge or you know, they go through this time period where they don't have the screens. So many parents come back to us and even teachers in the classroom and say, oh my gosh, like there were no conflicts. This is amazing. And it's because it actually ends up being easier not having the devices and we can't imagine not, you know, living without them. But it actually becomes easier when you take, especially the younger your kids are. Oh my word. They snap back so fast because they want to be outside, they want to be moving, they want to be learning about Frisbees. You know, they want to be doing that stuff and letting them be children. And I.

[B]

There's a story recently a friend of mine told me she was talking to a girlfriend in I think California and her daughter, who's 16, I guess, kicked her door in or something and so they took her phone away for a couple weeks and the change in their daughter was instant. Like she's way more engaged, way more present. Recently a friend of mine, his son, who's in grade nine, he had a couple friends say some really dumb stuff on Snapchat. Somebody screenshotted it. They ended up getting suspended for five days. And his son didn't get implicated because he does. He's not in Snap, so he didn't. Wasn't part of that. But. But it's like, you know, when we were younger, we said dumb things like, you learn from your friends input and feedback and saying those things in person to your friends, and you learn, okay, maybe that's not something I should say online in general. And, you know, that's not excusing terrible behavior, but it is encouraging kids to just make mistakes and try things and, you know, get feedback from your friends and saying, hey, like, maybe that's not what you should say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But to then record that and then have it go on, and then that can be a permanent record. Like, I've been to schools where a kid in 8th grade was suspended from the school because somebody sent him a photo that she wanted to only have him see it. He showed it to one of his friends. That's now distribution of child pornography. Yeah, he's suspended, and so that will stick with him forever. And these are just things that more so than what's actually happening is just that idea of being on the phones. And these are such powerful devices.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember my first year university, the professor held up a calculator, and he said, there's more power in this calculator than the first shuttle that landed on the moon. Right. And it's like, whoa. Like, our phones are so powerful, and they can do so many things, but at the end of the day, we're the ones controlling these things. Like, what can we do? One of my favorite books of all time is the Wright Brothers, and it talks about their journey of discovering flight and just how much they were able to accomplish and writing letters to their dad and their sister, and just how much they were able to do through trial and error and learning and studying and failing. And I just. I really think it's important that we focus on the things we can do. And. And I always say to kids, too, like, try to read more and watch less.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I'll ask people, how many of you have read a book, and then you watch the movie, and the book was better than the movie. Well, a book is your imagination. A movie is someone else's imagination. And so you're always gonna like the book better. And so let's read more and watch less, and instead of watching Me play Frisbee. Go play Frisbee yourself. Instead of watching a professional athlete playing their sport, maybe only watch one period, one inning, you know, one quarter. You don't have to watch the whole game every day. Go do it yourself. And so especially knowing that, you know, this nine hours of screens every single day, if we keep adding more time to that, then it's just more time away from everything else. And then it's. People are wondering why I'm not good at something or why I didn't make the team or, you know, why I'm not close with my friends. Well, now's the time to do that. One of the most wild facts as well is roughly 80% of the time that parents will spend with their kids is before the age of 18. And so if most of that time that 80% is spent not together or just looking at a screen, and when they move out of the house, well, you know, you've lost a lot of that time, so. And one of my favorite quotes is, you can either be friends with your kid now or when they're older. And if you're friends them now, you probably don't want to be friends with them when they're older. And so it goes back to that idea of being a coach.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doing the things you know is important. And letting. Letting your kids. Like, I even see this all the time in schools where kids are looking for the teacher to tell them when to go. And I keep telling the kids, like, I want you to figure out when it's your turn. You need to be aware of these things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it might take longer, and that's okay. And you might make mistakes, but I want you to try to figure it out instead of waiting for an adult to tell you when to go.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because it's, I think, the best way that people can be. And I was actually a lifeguard in high school, which makes a lot of sense now, because I basically just lifeguard kids in the gym. I just stand back and let them play. And if they're making mistakes, I don't care. They're gonna figure it out. But if they're being dangerous, that's different. I'm gonna go up and just say, hey, like, just let's be in control a little bit. And I think adults in general need to be more of a lifeguard and just let kids play, have fun. They're gonna get hurt. There's gonna be some blood and bruises and tears, and that happens. But they need to learn that now instead of when they're 17. 18 years old. And you know, they haven't taken risks, they don't know those, those, you know, consequences. They need to learn those, I think all the time when they're young.

[A]

Yes. And I was just reading the other day too, or it was a video that I watched quickly that, just explaining when we do things for our kids and we rescue them constantly and do it for them, we are literally stealing and robbing them from their self esteem. Like we're taking away the opportunity for them to learn confidence and to be sure of themselves. And we really want that for them when we, when they get older, when they leave our home, that's what we want for them and we forget that. And I was guilty of it too. You know, I've got three older children now and I definitely look back and go, oh, I probably should have let them do more, you know.

[B]

Well, I saw this. My, my nephew was doing a puzzle last Christmas and it was, you know, a bunch of people were sitting around. So like his grandparents and I'm the uncle size sitting there. It was like his, his parents I think were there as well. So he was doing a puzzle. I think he's, he was 5 at the time and he was struggling. But like that's what happens when you do a puzzle. You have to try to figure it out. And instead of letting him struggle and figure it out, which he was, everyone started chiming in saying, put the puzzle here. Put the puzzle piece here.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And eventually stopped even doing the puzzle. And he just waited for people to tell him where to put it. And I just remember getting so upset and I wanted to say to them, like, do you not realize what you're doing? Like you've just taken the joy out of it. You have to let him struggle. You have to let him figure it out. Yeah. And they didn't let him do that. And so it just, just seeing that in person, like there's just a lot. And I see this all the time with teachers in school. It's just how they're not letting kids. Like even yesterday it was kindergarten, so 5 year olds and I, I went up to one kid, I'm like, what's your name? And the teacher answered, oh no. And I just ignored her. And I said to the kid, what's your name? And I waited for the kid to answer me and then I went up to another kid, I was asking the question as well. I'm like, what's your name? The teacher again answered and it's like, no, like that doesn't help these kids can answer the question. And it's such a simple little thing, but if you do that enough times, then, you know, you're. You're robbing kids of autonomy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So true. This has been so great. I love that you're doing this. I love that you're getting in front of so many students and teachers with this message. And you were telling me before we started recording that you're also had booked some parent presentations now too. So you're going to kind of branch out and talk to parents, or were you already doing that?

[B]

I haven't in a while. I kind of got away from it when I moved away from Unplugged and during COVID shifted my messaging a little bit. So I'm excited to get back in front of parents with this new messaging.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I've been hearing from a lot of parents I've been talking to recently that they know all the data, they've heard all the stats, they're overwhelmed with and they know and they feel guilty. A lot of. A lot of these presentations that they're going to are actually shaming them, and they just feel like they're awful parents. And so they're like, we need solutions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's really what I love about Screenstrong is it's given them hope. I feel like a lot of parents right now just don't have hope right now.

[A]

So they just kind of feel like, well, the cat's out of the bag. What are we supposed to do? You know? And I do. I love that too. Through our parent curriculum and even our student curriculum, we really provide. And even through our presentations through the workshops that you're gonna be doing, you know, we're like, hey, this is how you build a healthy brain. This is what you're going to do instead. It's not just about restricting and saying no, no, no to screens. It's, hey, let's go do this instead, and then you're going to be happier in the long run. So, any last encouragement advice? What would you like to say to friends, to our friends, parent. Our friends or parents today? What would you say as one last encouragement inspiration?

[B]

I would honestly just say, you know, think about and focus on what you can do instead of what you cannot do. And so instead of looking at it as, you know, don't play video games, don't do this, don't do that. It's what can we do instead? And I just really think it. It shifts your mindset so much, and it's just. It's a lot more fun because then you're coming up with all these ideas about all the things you can do instead of hiking and spending time as a family and reading and discovering and exploring. And it's been amazing, the books that I've discovered and I drive a lot, but just the impact it's had on my life as well. I think that's just really powerful, that we can do a lot for ourselves. Um, but, yeah, we have to. We have to think about what we can do instead of what we can't do.

[A]

Love that. That's a great reminder. So where can people find you?

[B]

Super simple. Just search Frisbee Rob, and there's. I've hundreds of videos, over 700 videos. I was on a Mr. Beast Reacts video last year, which is pretty cool.

[A]

You were?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See, I even know that because we do. We do allow YouTube, but it's on our big screen and our. We more watched as a family. And so sometimes I get into some of these YouTubers, which is so funny with my. Because I have older teenagers, but that's fun. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And I had a kid actually at a school. After I said that, he came up to me after me, and he told me that next time I talked to Jimmy if I could ask him to send him a T shirt. And I was like, well, I haven't met Mr. Beast, but I'm like, if I ever talk to him, I'll have him send you that. But yeah, and I talked to kids and saying, like, you know, If M. If YouTube didn't exist, what would Mr. Beast do? And so I really encourage people as well to find something, find your thing that doesn't depend on technology. And so my thing, which is Frisbee, I can do it without technology. And I also say that, especially to middle school and high school, that if you're. Every time you're doing something, if you're filming it, then you're doing it for other people and try to do more things for yourself. And so most of the time you're doing something nobody should be watching you or you're just doing with your friends or family. And so if every time you're doing something, you have to turn the camera on, just think about who. Who are you actually doing it for?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, Frisbee Rob is. Is where I'm at. And so if you want to find out more. And part of my goal is to educate people about what's possible with Frisbee. Frisbee is the most popular toy in the world. But a lot of People have a toy Frisbee that does not fly very well and would be like having a soccer ball that doesn't have any air in the ball. Except if you have a flat soccer ball, you're not going to kick it thinking, I'm bad at soccer. Soccer's not fun. You're going to think, I need to put air in the ball. But a lot of people throw the Frisbee that doesn't fly and think, I'm not good at Frisbee. Frisbee is not fun. So super important to get a good quality Frisbee. I know that's something we've talked about. Maybe having a screen strong Frisbee kind of fun.

[A]

That would be so fun.

[B]

We could have, you know, different messaging on it maybe. But just even giving people a way to actually do something, something differently, and just saying, like, hey, instead of playing a video game, like, go outside and make up your own game with a Frisbee. And there's 150 ways to throw. There's 10 different disciplines with Frisbee, but you can make up your own game. Frisbee Hockey, we call it Frocky Frisbee. Volleyball, we call it volley bee. So it's like just games. Totally. Yeah.

[A]

So where, where would one find a good quality Frisbee?

[B]

So I have a link on my website.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So for people in the U.S. the store that I recommend is actually based in California. So it's. You can get them for less than $10 and it's. Yeah, they're really good quality Frisbee people. In Canada, it's a bit more challenging with exchange rates. But that's, that's definitely my goal is to just have people understanding what you can buy, what's possible, and just making sure you start with a good quarter quality ones. So just one Frisbee for the family is a good way to start. You don't have to go buy 50 each.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Just start with one and you can go from there.

[A]

Okay. I'm thinking a good Christmas present for my older kids, especially since you started after you got done with high school. So I love that. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Rob. It was a super fun interview with you today.

[B]

No, it's. I love that I'm a part of a community and a family now that it's not just me on an island by myself doing this. That there's resources and courses and people that are coming together to actually support each other. I think that's super important.

[A]

Awesome. Okay, so if you don't know this yet. We have an incredible curriculum for both parents and students that we've kind of referred to a little bit today called Kids Brains and Screens. In lesson three of the student edition, we actually cover how you'll have a stronger body physically when you're screen strong. So we go through and tell students, look, when you're screen strong, you're going to be, you know, stronger physically, stronger mentally. We talk about like mental health, we talk about emotions. So I love that we have a whole chapter just on the physical part of it and how to have a stronger body. And so just remember the brain is what the brain does. So it's really important that we keep our kids bodies moving and that they understand the why behind it, which is, you know, so their brains will continue to grow strong. That's why they need to move. We would love to see you over on Screen Strong Connect, which is our online forum for families that is off of social media. It's simple to join by going to screenstrong.org if you are on social media though and you want to find us there, we are over there on Facebook. Our Facebook group is Screenstrong Families and our Instagram is at Bscreen Strong. We would love if you would subscribe to this podcast and share this episode with some some friends. If you would like more information on becoming an ambassador with Screenstrong and spreading this message, or if you want to host a Screenstrong ambassador, you know, to do a workshop or a webinar for your community, you can find those interest forms on our website. So remember, we've got your back and we are here to help you remove the screen conflicts from your home. So until next time, stand up for your kids, stand out from the crowd and stay strong.