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The Courts Are Catching Up: What the Google & YouTube Verdicts Mean for Your Kids (#260)
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Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Screenstrong Families Podcast, bringing you the best solutions for parents who are serious about eliminating screen problems in their homes. This is Melanie Hempe, and I'm so glad you're joining us today. If you're one of our regular listeners, welcome back. And if you're a new friend, we are so glad you found us. You're no longer alone on this journey of navigating screens in your home. You have found your people over here at Screenstrong. So today we're going to talk about the lawsuits. Over the past few days, something significant has happened. Two recent court cases, one in New Mexico and one in California, both found Google responsible for harm to children, with YouTube specifically named in one of the verdicts. At the center of these lawsuits, though, is a question that parents have been asking for years. Are these platforms designed in ways that make it harder for kids to look away? Juries are beginning to say yes, but as a parent, you already know this. So today I am going to share a just a short radio interview I did with Vince Coakley, a host from WBT Radio in Charlotte, North Carolina. We'll get to that in just a second. What I want to just say for just a minute, I want to give you a little bit of my thoughts on these lawsuits. We know that these platforms are built in ways to take advantage of developing brains. If anybody knows it, all of y' all listening to Screenstrong podcast for a while, know this. It may making it it's much harder for kids to regulate their use no matter how hard they try. The platforms are full of persuasive design and that is what's at stake here. And that's what is on trial here. And it's why this moment matters so much. These lawsuits shift the conversation from blaming kids to asking a much bigger question. What responsibility do these companies have for how their products affect children? These lawsuits didn't just focus on content, which is a lot of times what what you see and you hear about. But they're focusing on the persuasive design, the actual design of how the programs work, the algorithms, the autoplay, the endless stream of videos that make it so hard to for kids to stop watching. Trust me, trust me on this. The tech companies are not laying awake at night worried about your kids and your kids mental health. They're not. That is not their job. That is your job and my job. Their job is to make money on their product. So naturally, their algorithms are going to be designed to keep your kids glued to their screen. So the answer is very simple. We don't give kids these products. That's the answer. It's, it's really actually very simple. I don't know why, why we keep making it so hard. But, but finally, this is one quick point I'll make before I turn on the recording. Finally, I just want you to remember and to think about this fact, this, that any law that changes, any policy that's made without education, it won't work. We must have education whenever we are changing policy. That is the only way that prevention will work. And in order to provide the best education, we have to bring the brain science into the conversation. And that is what we do best over here at Screenstrong. So I think you'll enjoy this short little conversation. It's really very short. Think you'll enjoy it? After I play this, I'm going to jump right back on with just a few summary thoughts that you can go tell all your friends. So with that, here's Vince.
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I want to begin with something that literally affects just about everybody in some way. And I'm talking about social media. And it's one thing to talk about the effect of social media on adults, it's another thing all together when we're talking about children. You may have heard about two very significant cases that brought the spotlight onto these big social media giants and it's not turned out well for them. A Los Angeles jury has found Mark Zuckerberg's Meta and Google's YouTube liable in a groundbreaking lawsuit concerning harm to children using their platforms. Awarding $3 million in damages to a young woman who claims social media addiction during childhood worsened her mental health. This is a precedent setting verdict. The jurors deliberated for more than 40 hours across nine days before determining that both Meta and YouTube were negligent in the design and operation of their platforms. The jury concluded each company's negligence was a substantial factor in causing harm to the plaintiff, a 20 year old woman who testified her childhood use of social media created an addiction to the technology and aggravated her mental and health problems. So this award is expected to increase significantly. The jurors determine the company's acted with malice or highly egregious conduct. And the finding means the jury will hear additional evidence and return to deliberations, decide on punitive damages which could substantially raise the total compensation. As you know, these companies have to be in a panic and it's very important to discuss the implications of this. The best person I can think of immediately, Melanie Hemphy, who's done so much to Bring this issue to the forefront about children and screens. Melanie, thanks for coming on the broadcast.
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Vance, thank you for having me. What an incredible story this morning. Right?
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It certainly is. Tell me your reaction when you heard about this verdict.
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Well, my very first reaction was the pendulum is finally swinging back to the middle. You know, in our culture, we do crazy things, and eventually, you know, it doesn't take long. Things have to come back to normal. And this is really just like the smoking, you know, issue from years ago. It's very, very parallel. When the science started becoming very clear that smoking was bad for us, we had to start changing laws. Right. So. And that's what. That's what's happening right now. It's inevitable. It is a tidal wave, and it's inevitable. And you just said a minute ago that this has not turned out well for these companies. Well, Vance, it has not turned out well for our children. For decades, our kids have really been suffering. And screen strong is what we do over here. We educate parents about this, and we educate parents about how to get their children off of these addictive screens. Because it takes two things. It takes policy events like we're working on right now, and we're seeing with these lawsuits, but it also takes education. We have to start educating, you know, kids and families more about what's happening to them. But what a turning point. This is a huge turning point.
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Well, let's start there with what needs to happen in our homes. We've talked before. What do you recommend parents do?
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Yeah, you know, I love so much that you just brought that up, because this case is a huge, you know, public awareness thing that's happening, but nothing is really going to change until we change things in our home. And so if you can think of it this way, Vince, it's like a cycle. Kids have access to these devices, their dopamine goes up, then they detach from their families. Right. And then the next thing is they get anxious. And guess what they do when they get anxious? They go back to more access. So parents are the first line of defense when it comes to helping our kids, and they have to remove the access. And it's not access from every screen in the world out there. That's not what it is. It's access from the most addictive technologies, which, as we're seeing very clearly, you know, in this lawsuit, that it is social media. And then the other toxic tech that's out there is video games and pornography and social media. Those are the three. The parents have to just say no more. We have to use that most beautiful word in the human language, right? It's called no. The word is no. We just have to say no. And you know, Vince, I'm a nurse. And so when we're looking at medical situations, if there's a toxicity happening with a patient, you have to stop the toxicity. You have to stop access to whatever it is. Whatever it is. So that's the only way to do it. And Vince, the other thing that I just want to make really clear is that these devices were never designed for minors. And I mean, up to 18, the way the human brain is developed, the way that these children are so vulnerable to the things that the tech companies have figured out exactly how to exploit those vulnerabilities. And you know, there's a part of me, you know, it's not, I don't, I don't stay mad at the tech companies. I just look at parents and say, guys, we got to step up. We got to coach our kids better and we got to coach our families. So, you know, they're doing their job right. And these, these toxic screens aren't hurting our kids. It's our, it's our responsibility as parents to step in and protect our kids. And, and that's what we do at Screenstrong. We help parents protect and reverse these screen addictions. But what a news story. This is certainly significant.
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Well, Melanie, are you able to hold to a break? Because I want to go to part of the defense that these companies have offered because it's really intriguing the direction they went to try to get themselves off the hook. We'll talk about that. We are back on Vince Kirkley radio program 179fm, WBT, Charlotte's FM news talk. I want to encourage you, check out the website screenstrong.org screenstrong.org if you like to learn more information. I just scroll down to just one section here on this front page. The information on this first screen alone, ironically, I said screen. It's mind boggling. And I would encourage you to check it out. I want to. As we continue our conversation with Melanie Hempy, I want to share a particular portion of what is in this news story as it relates to part of the defense that was offered by these social media companies because it's really instructive. And let's just be honest, these folks are profoundly deceptive and what they're attempting to do is, is to get off the hook from responsibility. I'm just going to read this paragraph and I'm sure Melanie Hempy will have something to say. About this. Throughout the trial, Meta consistently maintained that Kaylee, this was the person who is involved in the suit, experienced mental health difficulties independent of her social media usage. Now, I think the important, one important point, point to make out of this. They long. They contended from the beginning that she had mental difficulties, that social media exacerbated. They never said it caused them, which I think was very smart. Continuing on, frequently referencing her unstable home environment. These people are. I'm just telling you, and I, I don't know what Melanie's going to say about. These are evil people. They went after this young lady and basically tried to. Basically tried to trash her and her family. In a statement released after closing arguments, Meta emphasized that not one of the herd therapists identified social media as the cause of her mental health issues. However, the plaintiffs were not required to prove social media directly caused Kaylee's struggles, only that it was a substantial factor contributing to her harm. YouTube adopted a different strategy, concentrating less on Kaylee's medical records and mental health history, focusing more on her YouTube usage patterns and the nature of their platform. They contend YouTube is not social media. These people are just, they're lying people. They really are. They're a video platform similar to television. They pointed to evidence showing her decreasing YouTube use as she matured. According to data presented by YouTube, Kaylee spent approximately one minute per day on average watching YouTube Shorts since the features introduction YouTube Shorts launched in 2020. The platform section dedicated short form vertical videos incorporating the infinite scroll feature that plaintiffs argued was addictive. So what do you think about this? First, we're blaming the family and basically saying you, you know, she was mentally unstable anyway and she came from a bad home.
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Yeah, well, I mean, that's like saying your lungs are already bad when you start smoking, so therefore these cigarettes didn't cause the cancer. I mean, really, I mean, you know, Vince, this doesn't make any sense. Everybody knows that there is a teen mental health crisis, you know, in our, in our country. I mean, so many kids are on anxiety medication and all we know that social media contributes heavily to it, and it's because of the algorithms. And this is one thing that's really important for us to understand here. Adults do not use social media the way teens and kids use social media. Okay? So I think that's a big, big, huge point to understand. So. And part of the problem for this whole case is that those companies know exactly how teenagers use social media, and so it serves terrible content to them through their algorithms. It is the algorithmic, you know, function of these companies that are causing the mental health problems. Because, you know, Vince, you and I may go on and look up a recipe on how to cook an apple pie or something, right? But that is not what the kids are looking up. And the minute they start to look up something about, you know, being depressed, for example, then the algorithm is all set up and ready to just send them tons of stuff, stuff on depression. And before they know it, they're more depressed than ever and sitting in the doctor's office with their mom saying they're anxious and they need drugs. This is all very much a cause of this teen mental health crisis. There's just, you know, I mean, think about it, Vince. We get depressed when we go on social media. You know, imagine what a 14 year old, 15 year old, you know, imagine how it is for them. So I don't believe it has a whole lot to do with anybody's background. I mean, I know that life's hard and things happen to families, but, you know, for years before social media, we didn't have this level of mental health problems and depression.
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And that's what's so alarming about all of this. Let's talk about where this goes in the future. We discussed really the most important thing, starting with us, us taking responsibility for what goes on in our homes. That is very important. How about the legal process? Do you see the pendulum swinging as well with governments taking more aggressive action?
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Yes, absolutely. This is going to happen. And again, I'm so happy for all the different policies that we see in our schools. For example, you know, that we're looking at taking phones out of schools. And by the way, let me just make it really clear that the smaller the screen, the bigger the problem. So for parents out there, your minor children do not need little mini computers in their pockets. They do not need smartphones. The smaller the screen, the bigger the problem. The next size up is the laptop, since, you know, and this is going to be the next thing to go, right? Because we're starting to see that our kids are getting, you know, dumber, I guess, you know, in school with all these devices, it's not helping them reach, you know, the grades that we're looking for. And so government is going to get involved. And I think that that's not a bad thing, But I do think absolutely 100% what you just said, that parents have to step up right now because by the time your government gets involved to fix all this, believe it or not, your kids are going to be in college and married and hopefully married. And having kids of their own. So we have to protect our kids right now. And it is, it does start with a parent. Like I said, you know, good job for these lawsuits coming out. And, you know, it's inevitable that this is going to happen. Right. Because we just can't keep going the way we're going. Kids do not need phones. They do not need social media. They need real childhoods. They're minors. We need to treat this like every other addictive thing out there. And these screens are getting more addictive by the minute. That is their platform. That is their profit plan, which, you know, profits. Okay. But we as parents have to protect our kids. And it is not. We are not over protecting them. We are protecting them. And that's what we have to do. And it's not that hard. That is not that, you know, it is so much easier to raise kids without a smartphone than to raise kids with a smartphone. Just. We'll talk about some more later. I'll talk to you about it. I have four kids. We did two with and two without. And I know exactly how this works.
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Can see night and day difference, I'm sure.
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Night and day.
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Before we go here, we've talked about the personal responsibility, the government angle of this. Where do you see the future litigation going here? Because I'd imagine all the people in this country who are listening to the story and maybe they've got children who, especially children who have had mental health issues. Do you think this is just going to open the floodgates now to all kinds of people are going to say, you know what? I think it's time for us to get the piece of this pie?
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Oh, yeah, everyone is going to start coming out of their dark place that they've been hiding, they've been shamed, they've been feeling like there's something wrong with them. This case is going to bring all this to light. It will shine the light in all these dark places to say, wait a minute, what are we doing? But even more important than that, Vince, I really hope that every parent that reads about this story and hears you talking about it this morning, that they stop and they look at their own home and they figure out how to make the change there. It is not that hard. But I agree with you that it is going to just be a tidal wave of patience, you know, coming forward. Absolutely, 100%.
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Melanie Hemphi, we so appreciate the work that you do. It's so important. I mentioned the website. It's screen strong.org go check that out. Because it you Will be amazed. All the information that is available to help you. It really to empower you and ultimately to empower your children. That's what this is all about, Melanie.
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Right?
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God bless you for your work and look forward to talking with you again soon.
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Thank you. Let's. Let's talk again soon for sure. I'll help you. I'll help all your parents out there figure out how to take this stuff away from their kids and get them outside.
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Amen.
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Wow.
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Vince is such a great host, right? He is just so, so good. Just love listening to his show and love being on his show. So I'm going to give you just a few takeaways.
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Okay?
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First of all, smartphones are not for minors. Okay? Just say this over and over to yourself when your minor child is begging you for the smartphone. Smartphones are not for minors. Tech companies say their products are saved when they're used as intended. Right. That's one of their defenses. And that platforms like YouTube can be used in moderation and all the things. But that is not true when we're dealing with minors, Kids cannot moderate them. In fact, most adults I know, including me, have a hard time moderating them. The persuasive design is too powerful for developing brains. So, number one, smartphones are not for minors. Number two, parents, you and I, are responsible for what our kids do. Believe it or not. I know there's a lot of parents out there that think their kids, you know, can do all these things and that you just need to be there to kind of help them along the way. But honestly, there are some things in life that are just not designed for kids. And it's because of their developing brain. And remember, we say it all the time, intelligence is not maturity. You can think your kid is more mature than all others, but boy, bottom line is, from a neuroscience standpoint, that's just simply not true. And there's nothing you can do to speed it up. So we are missing the point if we think that tech companies can actually provide the guardrails you need for your kids. So, yeah, I think they should go provide guardrails. Absolutely. They can do all the things that they need to do. But you have to remember that your child is not different. Your child, their brain is the same as all the other teenage brains out there. And we are responsible for coaching them and teaching and guiding them. We're responsible for that. Trust me. Trust me. Trust me on this. When your child is mature enough and when they're just a little bit older, they will be fine. They will Maybe binge on their social media sometime, but they're going to be much more mature when they're older and that's when they're going to be able to use it. And the third thing that I just want to say is that we really don't have time. Like I mentioned when I was talking to Vince, we just don't have time to wait for all the laws and for all the safety measures to be passed and for all these things to happen. Because right now, today, right now, this afternoon and this evening, your kids are going to be on their phones unless you take them away and give them a book to read instead. Put other things and replace things so they have other things to do. But your kids are going to be grown by the time the tech companies are going to fix the problem and you know how this is going to go. They're going to try to fix it and then that's not going to work. And there'll be other things. They'll try to put band aids on it and that's not going to, it's just going to go on and on and on because it's driven by profit, which again, it's not a bad thing. Our kids just don't need to be on it. And when you think about it, in the 48 month rule, what I call it over here, high school is only 48 months. We can do anything for 48 months. I know that your child doesn't need a phone, doesn't need a smartphone, doesn't need social media for 48 months. It's really okay. They will be okay. In fact, they're going to be way more than okay. Get them a flip phone, get them a basic phone, whatever. They don't need little mini computers in their pocket. And if you can't do this for 48 months, then you maybe need to rethink what some of the other bigger problems are. Because 48 months is not that long. So every day that goes by that your kids are off in the real world doing other things, they're, they're, you're, you're preserving their brain. So just think of it that way. So these recent verdicts really do matter. They are a step toward restoring the guardrails and, and, you know, protecting the next generation. I get it, I get it. It's really important. But I will tell you my number one biggest thing that I think is the most important thing about these lawsuits. It is the fact that they raise awareness. I believe that is the biggest benefit and will continue to be the biggest benefits around all these lawsuits. The very fact that we're talking about it, the fact that there are so many parents out there that are hearing this for the first time. Oh, my goodness. You mean there's persuasive design? You mean they're actually going to be held accountable and they have to pay money because they're hurting kids? This is wonderful news. This is wonderful just to get this in the news and to get this conversation going. So while tech companies must be held accountable, you must step in now. You are your child's best advocate. Their success truly starts and ends with you. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for tuning in today and listening. I'm so glad that you did. And I hope this episode encourages you and gives you clarity on just, you know, one more reason why cutting out toxic screens matter so much for your teen's future. And I hope these lawsuits, I think, I hope you can just think about this often and that can, it can just be, like I said, one more reason. But it can also just be this awareness that, that, that kind of sticks into your memory where you think, wow, I don't want to end up in a lawsuit like that. I don't want to end up with my kid, you know, having to go sue a tech company because of their depression and their mental health illness. So remember, the, the most important thing is it raises awareness. So pass this podcast on to your friends, talk about it in your, your friend groups at your schools and your book clubs and, and actually have people come back and listen to Screenstrong. We are here to help you. I think that our kids Brains and Screens curriculum will really help you. You know, we have had so much success lately with getting this curriculum in schools and, and it is just fabulous. It is such a fabulous thing to do to be able to get this into your school. Then guess what? Now it's not just you and your child, but you're actually educating the other kids in class. Everybody now has some really good information about brain science and kids and what screens do to their brains. Remember, we've got your back over here at Screenstrong and we're here to help you remove the screen conflicts from your home and bring peace back to your family. It is not as hard as you think. So until next time, stand up for your kids. Stand out from the crowd and stay strong.