A F*ck Boy and a Vasectomy | Replay

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "A F*ck Boy and a Vasectomy | Replay"

Secondhand Therapy with Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Date: June 15, 2026
Studio: PonyBear Studios

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Overview

In this replay episode, best friends Louie and Michael get hilariously honest about masculinity, personal growth, and mental health, blending raw self-reflection with real talk. The episode’s focus is split: Louie recounts his recent vasectomy with unfiltered detail, debunking stereotypes and sharing the emotional and physical aftermath, while Michael unpacks his struggles with casual dating, validation, and the challenge of aligning his words with his actions. Throughout, the duo shines a light on the messy, non-linear journey of self-discovery, always with sharp wit and vulnerability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Louie's Vasectomy: Facts & Feelings (05:01–15:22)

Lou’s Play-by-Play

• Procedure Experience: Lou describes the vasectomy process in vivid, relatable, and comedic detail. Despite nerves, the surgery was “much more mild than [he] thought it was going to be” (07:14).
• Physical Aftermath: Purple bruising, compression underwear, and even bloody ejaculate—all recounted with candor and humor.
  • “Not my entire... but up at the top near my... the root of my dick... quite bruised.” – Lou (05:24)
  • “My dick looked like a turtle head for like the first few days because it was so smashed in.” – Lou (06:41)
  • “When you look down and see bloody cum... it’s an alarming thing.” – Lou (13:47)

Addressing Myths

Lou and Michael mock toxic masculinity around vasectomies:

• “You ain’t no real man now.” – referencing online trolls (14:26)
• “No, actually, I can come in my wife all I want. Thank you so much.” – Lou (14:44)

Recovery & Masculinity

• The recovery was faster and easier than expected.
• Lou encourages men who are worried: “If you’re a man listening... and you’re scared about getting a vasectomy, it’s not a big deal.” (16:34)

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2. Michael’s Fear of Vasectomy & Fear in Life (16:40–19:35)

• Michael expresses ongoing fear about medical procedures and commitment, joking but also admitting deep-rooted anxiety, often stemming from his upbringing and worst-case-scenario mindset.

  • “You can’t even feed yourself, you’re gonna keep another human alive?” – Lou (17:14)
  • “Fear, usually... is that a big shutdown for you?” – Lou (19:05)

• Michael reveals his mother “embedded worst-case-scenario” thinking in him, leading to catastrophizing even easy procedures (19:13).

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3. Personal Therapy Updates & Accountability (24:18–28:35)

Michael’s Hard Truths

• He’s been grappling with accountability and the realization that his “words do not match [his] actions in certain aspects of [his] life.” (25:39)

  • “Learning about yourself, not always enjoyable.” – Michael (25:12)
  • “Knowing things and facing things are very different.” – Lou (25:24)

• Lou, amused and proud, calls out Michael’s pattern of ignoring advice until it becomes his own revelation.

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4. Dating & the “F*ck Boy” Conversation (28:36–55:45)

Michael’s Casual Romance Dilemma

• Michael describes his difficulty with casual hookups—saying he wants something casual, but acting intimate: “It’s girlfriend behavior with casual hook up boundaries.” (29:42)
• Lou observes, “It’s casual hookup statements with no boundaries.” (29:45)
• Michael jokes about needing to “be more of a fuckboy” to avoid hurting others (30:19).

People Pleasing & Emotional Incongruence

• Lou pushes Michael to consider that his loving behavior, even when stating boundaries, may be more about people pleasing and his own needs than about the other person.
  • “Is that for you or for them?” – Lou (31:44)
• Michael admits difficulty separating his love languages (“acts of service and physical touch”) from casual connections.

Check-Ins vs. Change

• Michael and Lou compare their ability to set (and follow through on) boundaries:
  • “I have no problem with my actions matching my words.” – Lou (33:13)
  • “I get wrapped up in that.” – Michael (34:11)

The Real Issue: Validation

• Michael owns that validation from women is a “big source” for him (39:42).
• He debates deleting dating apps, discussing with his therapist the need for new rules—including how to manage selfies, DMs, and flirtation.
  • “Give me parameters. Give me rules.” – Michael (40:03)

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5. Behavior Change: Deleting Apps & New Challenges (50:29–53:50)

• Michael reports he deleted dating apps as part of a boundary experiment and therapy challenge.
• His therapist encourages him: “Meet somebody outside of the digital world, like at a museum or something and try to hook up with them.” (52:42)
• Both riff on the notion of “classy” casual sex—“Do not make them breakfast. Do not get their name. Do not look them in the eye.” – Lou (53:04)

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6. “Are You Just a F*ckboy?” – Moral Reckoning (54:02–58:05)

• Lou presses Michael: “Are you able to face that you might just be a fuckboy?”
• Michael resists, insisting he genuinely cares, but accepts that “if you are made aware [your actions are harmful] and you keep doing [them], then that is careless and reckless behavior” (57:34).
• “That would classify you as a bad person.” – Michael (58:05)

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7. The Root: Validation, Self-Worth & Social Media (59:15–69:09)

Seeking Validation

• Michael and Lou break down how much energy goes into seeking external validation versus genuine self-esteem.
• Michael admits the real challenge is not posting a selfie or thirst trap, but the need to manage the “engagement afterward”—the rush from likes, DMs, and connections (58:41, 62:00).

Thirst Traps & "Close Friends"

• Michael explains he posts “riskier” things to “close friends” lists, primarily women: “Having a close friends that is only women... is fuckboy behavior.” – Lou (64:10)
• Michael discusses ongoing struggles with online hate, masculinity gatekeeping, and how he avoids conflict by limiting who sees intimate content.

Realization and Growth

• Michael’s working on feeling good “just for me”—not for validation.
• Both acknowledge that shifting from “hello, look at me” to self-affirmation is a lifelong process.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When you look down and see bloody cum... it’s an alarming thing.” – Lou (13:47)
• “You can’t even feed yourself, you’re gonna keep another human alive?” – Lou (17:14)
• “Learning about yourself, not always enjoyable.” – Michael (25:12)
• “Is that for you or for them?” – Lou (31:44)
• “Are you able to face that you might just be a fuckboy?” – Lou (54:02)
• “That would classify you as a bad person.” – Michael (58:05)
• “Hello, look at me.” – Michael, reflecting on life-long validation needs (62:21)
• “Having a close friends that is only women... is fuckboy behavior.” – Lou (64:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Louie's Vasectomy Story: 05:01–15:22
• Vasectomy Mythbusting / Masculinity: 14:26–16:40
• Michael’s Fear & Anxiety: 16:40–19:35
• Therapy Revelations / Accountability: 24:18–28:35
• Casual Dating, F*ckboy Talk, People Pleasing: 28:36–39:15
• Validation & Social Media Patterns: 39:15–69:09

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Tone & Language

• The conversation is raw, funny, and unfiltered—best friends calling each other out with love, sarcasm, and honesty.
• They blend comedy (“My dick looked like a turtle head...”), deliberate oversharing, and moments of genuine, sometimes painful introspection.

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Listener Takeaways

• Vasectomies are less daunting than toxic masculinity makes them out to be.
• Setting boundaries is only part of growth—follow-through is key.
• The urge for validation, whether through sex, relationships, or social media, is deeply tied to self-worth and past trauma.
• True change means not just making statements, but aligning actions—even if it means confronting uncomfortable truths about ourselves.
• Vulnerability and humor can fuel real growth: “That would classify you as a bad person.” “Oh God.” (58:05)

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For more bonus content and the documentary on Louie’s vasectomy, check out their Patreon.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Michael]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. We want to remind you that we are not licensed professionals. We are not therapists. We're just two dudes that are going through it. But maybe you learned something, maybe you don't.

[Lou]

Yeah, yeah. We're just gonna talk about our own therapy. Yeah, yeah, maybe you relate to it. Maybe you hate us.

[Michael]

We do want to remind you that we have a Patreon. There's a bunch of bonus content on there. I've been doing some asmr. Lou's been doing some moonwalking episodes. There's after the pod clips, all kinds of stuff on there. So if you want to support us, that would be amazing. You can go to Patreon and check

[Lou]

us there patreon.com secondhand therapy pod. We also have merch available at secondhand therapypod.com if you want to contact us, you can email us secondhand therapy pod gmail.com or text us at 818-850-2448.

[Michael]

I do love when we get some text and voicemails.

[Lou]

Here's the episode now, because we don't need to do that. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[Michael]

I. Okay. Are you really?

[Lou]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University,

[Michael]

found some classes, bro. Oh, you fancy.

[Lou]

Now I'm out here.

[Michael]

He's a schoolboy.

[Lou]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career. You want to start a new thing. Snhu. What about you?

[Michael]

I mean, I love to learn.

[Lou]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

I need to.

[Michael]

I need to do it more officially.

[Lou]

You never learned a thing anyway. If you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career, do whatever you need.

[Michael]

Go back to school.

[Lou]

Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Michael]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Lou]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Michael]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Lou]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10. Okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Okay, all right.

[Lou]

Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Trying to see some. Some.

[Lou]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Michael]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[Lou]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us. Cause I want to hear how it went.

[Michael]

Oh, I can't. Please, please DM us.

[Lou]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Michael]

I want the tea.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.

[Lou]

Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome

[Michael]

back second hand therapy. And we know that

[Narrator/Advertiser]

now.

[Lou]

When I say purple, just know my balls are purple. Okay?

[Michael]

It's not a good selling point.

[Lou]

Not my whole, not. Not my entire. Not the entirety of my balls, but up at the top near my. My. The root of my dick. My dick root, where they made the incisions quite bruised.

[Michael]

How big are the incisions?

[Lou]

I don't know. Like that they're real small.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

What is that, a centimeter? Two centimeters?

[Michael]

Well, that's your whole balls then, right? Set them up, knock them down.

[Lou]

The joke implies anybody measures their balls,

[Michael]

you know, dudes be out there measuring their balls.

[Lou]

Like.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

No.

[Lou]

What's your ball length? Oh, you a big mount for someone with short ass balls.

[Michael]

Idiot. How you hanging these days?

[Lou]

Yeah, it. No, they numb you pretty good. It's fine.

[Michael]

I could not believe when you came home, it. It looked like you just been to the grocery store.

[Lou]

Yeah, I just had. Well, I had two pairs of underwear on.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I had a pair of tidy whities for that. I'm going to be honest with you. A size small. Intentional. Cuz he's like, he's like, get some compression or a jock strap. I was like, I'm not doing that.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I just get a pair of snug ass tighty whities and I had my regular box briefs over it. So I was compressed. My dick looked like a turtle head for like the first few days because it was so smashed in.

[Michael]

I was gonna say it's probably scared. Saw what he did to the balls.

[Lou]

He's like scared too.

[Michael]

I gotta skip down for a few days. Yeah. So the vasectomy wasn't too wild. It doesn't seem like you.

[Lou]

It was.

[Michael]

I didn't really notice a change in you in the. In the last few.

[Lou]

No. It's a little bit of a gimp, a little bit of care when I sit down and stand up. Yeah. Yeah. It's truly much more mild than I thought it was going to be. It was not a big deal at all. Now. Okay. I don't know how much am I sharing here because we're making a little documentary for it. We're making a little doc if you're listening. We're have a little documentary on Patreon about my vasectomy and a couple life events.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

That led up to me getting vasectomy that are incredibly private. That I did not share on here.

[Michael]

That's right. And that documentary will only be on our Patreon for a while.

[Lou]

I'm like, we'll probably throw it on YouTube and I don't know, next year sometime.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I don't know.

[Michael]

But for now.

[Lou]

Yes.

[Michael]

I don't know.

[Lou]

How much, how much should I share?

[Michael]

I think you can talk about a little bit more about the procedure.

[Lou]

The procedure.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Lou]

It was. I don't know, the worst part of it was just the nerves. Just being nervous.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Because I didn't know what to expect. It was. So I walked in. I sent you a picture of the.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Like, it's a legit operating room. Like, they have monitors. They, like, all that.

[Michael]

Were you standing or sitting? Like, how. What was the process? Like, when he's.

[Lou]

You're laying on your back, Just laying

[Michael]

flat on your back, really?

[Lou]

And then they have, like. Like, a paper gown with a hole cut out and they put over you, and they just plop your balls out of it.

[Michael]

Why would. Like, they're already down there. Why did. Why do they have to cover your. You know what I mean? Like, we're already here.

[Lou]

I think it's just for, like. It's like any surgery. They only want to see what they're working on.

[Michael]

All right? So it's not a prudish thing. It's not like, I don't see this guy's dick while I'm.

[Lou]

And you know, when. When they have surgery, they, like, use you to, like, set things down, and that needs to be a sterile area. Like, the dentist, they. That bib is not for. It's because they put shit on your chest.

[Michael]

And I just didn't think they wanted to see my cleavage while they were.

[Lou]

They might. They might not. They're like, I can't see all these veins right now.

[Michael]

Like, all these tools are pretty hairy. Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah, you. And it is a flat table. And then it had some, like, foot stirrups.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou]

Like, you see when women give birth. So I got on there, put my feet in the stirrups. He walked in, he goes, you don't have to do that.

[Michael]

Oh, really?

[Lou]

And I was like. Because I felt like an asshole with my feet in these stirrups. Like, I'm just sitting there. My balls are just. Gravity's taken over at this point. He goes, you don't have to do that. Just lay back. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I laid back, and, yeah, he gave me. I. What I'm learning is I might have, like, a high tolerance for anesthesia or nova, like, numbing anything like that. Oh, really? Yeah. Because, like, when I was getting my wisdom teeth out, they put you under for that. And I woke up in the middle.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Oh.

[Lou]

And this. They don't put you under. They just numb the area. So he gave me a shot. They go one side at a time. They did my left ball first. So he's like, you're gonna feel a little pinch of the shot, which wasn't bad.

[Michael]

Felt like a shot. Really?

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Even in your ball. Like, you can just, like, look at balls. Mean. And it Hurts. I can't believe.

[Lou]

In your testicle. It's up on the side by your dick. It's just where the. They're cutting the vas deferens, right. Tube. So they're not injecting your ball. I don't think.

[Michael]

I couldn't see. I had the gallon on.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Lou]

So he gave me the shot. He's like. And then he kind of just like. He's like, you feel anything? I was like, no. And he's like, you're gonna feel like. He's like. You'll feel like tugging and, like, pressure and stuff. He's like, you shouldn't feel anything sharp. He's like, okay, so I'm gonna make the incision now. And I was like, yeah, I feel that. Definitely feel that. And he's like, you feel the sharp? And I go, yeah. He's like, oh, okay. He gave me another shot. He goes, do you feel this? I go, yep. He's like, jesus. Okay. So then he hit me a third time, and then I finally didn't feel anymore.

[Michael]

Oh, my God.

[Lou]

Yeah. And so they numb you out. They pull the vaz. The vas out. They remove a section, snip, snip. Take a little chunk of it out, cauterize both ends, and then he stitched it shut as well. And then if you're not on YouTube, you should be, because as soon as it was all done, I swear to God, this is what he did with my ball sack to get it back in.

[Michael]

He went, no.

[Lou]

Like, it was like he was putting a pillow. A pillow on a pillowcase. Just. Just gave it a couple juggles, put. Got everything to fall back in the hole. I swear to God.

[Michael]

And then.

[Lou]

Stitch it up. He's like, all right, other side. Did the other side. Same thing. He gave me a shit ton of numbing. He's like, okay, I gave you the same on the left side. And he. I was like, yeah, I can still feel you cutting me. He goes, are you kidding? He's like, I can't believe it. So he had to give me more.

[Michael]

He just cold cocks it.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yes.

[Lou]

And then they did the right side. The whole thing was literally a half hour, like, 10, 15 minutes per ball.

[Michael]

I just love, too, how even though all the advances in, like, medicine and technology and all that stuff, he's still shaking your ball sack like a pillowcase? Yeah.

[Lou]

Just.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Michael]

That's what I love about this whole procedure is like, we're still just human. We're still just like, yeah, stitch it up.

[Lou]

I sat up. He's like, all right. I looked down. He's like, this is the one incision. This is the other incision. It's like, stitches will fall out in about a week. He's like, where? Some. He's like, keep them up to your body so they don't swell and fill with blood. It's like Tylenol. If you're sore, that's it.

[Michael]

Huh.

[Lou]

Ejaculate 14 times, and then we'll. We'll go get your sperm, test, make sure you're sterile.

[Michael]

Oh, my God. Now, is there a time limit on this 14 thing? Like, do you have a. It has to be in the next two weeks or something like that, or is it just over the course of whenever?

[Lou]

It's just this. He estimate. He's like, it just takes about 14 to clear out whatever sperm are still in your. That's deference. Yeah. Because your body, your balls still produce sperm. There's nowhere for them to go now.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

So the ones that were in that are in the top half of the vase. You just have to flush those out. That takes about 14 ejaculations. Now, I have ejaculated twice since then, and both of them had blood in it, which he told me was normal and not to panic. And I said, oh, I'll panic.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I got to tell you, when you look down and see bloody cum.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

It's an alarming thing. So had he not warned me, I'd have jumped out off the balcony, wouldn't I?

[Michael]

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's like all those men on the Internet were right, you know, you got a vasectomy, and now you got your period.

[Lou]

Jesus Christ. Thank God you gave up comedy, you know? Jesus Christ.

[Michael]

I just. I remember putting. When we were putting in the doc together, I had to go through and find all these, like, these real tweets about men.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And their ideas about what a vasectomy is, and they're just so fucking dumb.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Spoiler alert. They're so fucking dumb. And they're all in that vein of being like, whoa, you ain't no real man now. And you're like, yeah.

[Lou]

Oh, cool. Castrated yourself.

[Michael]

Got neutered. Yeah. Like, what are we doing?

[Lou]

Oh, dude. Oh, really?

[Michael]

Tell your wife to call me. You ain't. I can. You know what?

[Lou]

No, actually, this. I can come in my wife all I want.

[Michael]

Thank you.

[Lou]

Thank you so much.

[Michael]

Yeah, I'm into the worst.

[Lou]

Yeah. So that's. That's what I've been up to this past week.

[Michael]

How. How you feeling now? I mean, you seem great, feel great.

[Lou]

It's truly insanely minor. It's. Today is day eight.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

And the bruising is almost completely gone. The stitches. I think the stitches on my right incision are gone. And the left one. I think there's, like, one or two left.

[Michael]

When can you start going back to, like, physical activity, like gym and he.

[Lou]

It said about a week, so I should be able to now.

[Michael]

Oh, really?

[Lou]

Yeah. I still have a little tenderness, so I'm just playing it safe. Yeah.

[Michael]

Last question. Because sometimes when you. How do you stop from, like, does it itch or become bothersome or, like, what is that area? Like, when. In the. In the aftercare.

[Lou]

It's just tender.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah. It feel. It feels like you're bruised. That's it. And you kind of have, like, when you get hit in the balls, you know, you have that, like, low kind of stomachache.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

You have that for a day.

[Michael]

It just feels like it. Like, with the stitches, it would be it. It's literally this big.

[Lou]

Yeah. No, it's just. It's truly just a little sore. That's it.

[Michael]

Wow.

[Lou]

Like, when you roll over in your sleep, you tend to wake up to be like, okay, let me roll, and make sure I'm not flopping around. Like, you just are intrinsically more careful.

[Michael]

Yeah,

[Lou]

that's it. That's truly not that bad.

[Michael]

That's great. That's great news.

[Lou]

Yeah. So if you're a man listening and you don't want kids or you're done having kids and you're scared about getting vasectomy, it's not. It's not a big deal.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Get it done. Covered by insurance. Yeah. Cost nothing.

[Michael]

I'm still. You asked me when you came home, you're like. You doing it. I'm like, I don't. I'm still.

[Lou]

I know you lied to me and said. I'm just. I'm like, 90. Sure. On kids. You do not want kids.

[Michael]

No, I.

[Lou]

You're just scared.

[Michael]

I am.

[Lou]

The way you lied to me made me so angry. I don't know. I'm just betting. I don't know. I'm, like, 90 on kids. You hate kids.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

What are you so scared of?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Everything.

[Michael]

Maybe I'll meet somebody, get the.

[Lou]

Oh, and what, and they're gonna make you not. Make you want to be a father?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Maybe they'll bring the.

[Lou]

Good God, you can't even feed yourself. You're gonna keep another human alive.

[Michael]

Maybe they'll bring Father Mike out of me. Okay.

[Lou]

That's an Irish Catholic.

[Michael]

We don't need right now. It's just Daddy Mike.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Maybe some girl will turn me from daddy to father.

[Lou]

No, they won't. They won't.

[Michael]

No, I know. I need. I need to get in there. I'm just.

[Lou]

You just scared?

[Michael]

Petrified.

[Lou]

What are you scared of? Ouchie.

[Michael]

Ouchy.

[Lou]

You scared of ouchie?

[Michael]

What if I go in and I. And I'm like, hit me with a double right away. You know what I mean? When they're numbing me, can I be

[Lou]

like, well, it wears off. So you want it, like, when you're having the operation.

[Michael]

That's what I mean. Just hit me. Hit me. Give me a couple right away.

[Lou]

I don't understand what you're saying. So get the shots out of the way immediately.

[Michael]

Yeah, give me. Give me double the shots. So I know I'm. Because you said you had to have the three shots during the thing.

[Lou]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Michael]

Yeah. Should I just double up just to be safe?

[Lou]

Well, when you've had a tooth pulled, did they have to give you extra dovocaine in your mouth?

[Michael]

No. Yeah.

[Lou]

You're fine, buddy.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

That's.

[Michael]

That's what you told me. Like. Like you had a wisdom tooth ripped out of your mouth while you were awake. Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah. You're fine.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I assure you that was worse.

[Michael]

You sure that getting a vasectomy is less pain than a grown Russian man ripping a tooth from my.

[Lou]

From your jawbone. Jawbone, yeah. And then you had no painkillers after.

[Michael]

You're going to be fine, all right?

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah. I need to get in there.

[Lou]

Yeah, you won't, but you should.

[Michael]

I know. I'm scared.

[Lou]

I don't. You're so scared of everything. I don't understand.

[Michael]

I.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Scared.

[Lou]

Yeah. But.

[Michael]

So, yeah,

[Lou]

fear, usually. Is that a big shutdown for you? Yeah. It's mom.

[Michael]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She. She's embedded. Worst case scenario in me. So when I think of how easy and painless your vasectomy is, I can't help but think about how the opposite will happen to me. I just automatically think that I'm gonna have bad luck and I'm gonna get in there, Something's gonna go wrong. They're gonna need to do extra work or, like this or that.

[Lou]

Extra work?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Lou]

They're gonna have to do the third ball.

[Michael]

They're gonna be like, fuck, we can't stop the bleeding. Or. I don't know what the fuck's gonna happen, but they're gonna. I'm gonna hear the. Oh. While I'm on the table.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Huh?

[Michael]

Or somebody's gonna be like, huh, that's not. What's that? Or that's interesting.

[Lou]

You know, it leads to, oh, and then guess what? It's good thing you figured that out,

[Michael]

you know? And that's reframing, and that's something I'm working on. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Lou]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Michael]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, Find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Lou]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Michael]

It's not a good fate, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Lou]

And you're married now.

[Michael]

Oh, no. Never, Never.

[Lou]

You're in love now.

[Michael]

I have to talk about this to my therapist.

[Lou]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Lou]

Let's do one together.

[Michael]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on betterhelp.

[Lou]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy? A couple st.

[Michael]

I know you will.

[Lou]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with the all trails. Download the free app today and find your outside.

[Lou]

Yeah, I did tell my girlfriend in the parking lot. I came out of the thing, and she's like, hey, how'd it go? I was like, it Was fine. I was. And I kind of whispered. I was like, there was a little complication. I'll tell you. In the parking lot. She goes, oh, okay. And so I finished checking out, and we got to the parking lot. She's like, what happened? And I told her that on the. I made it specific. So, so believable. I was like, they did the left side first, and it was fine. The right side, I had a little bit more pain, which I didn't know. I just thought, like, you know, the numbing, whatever. It was like, when we're done, he showed me the part of the tube that cut out, and it was like dark brown, and the other one was white. She's like, what is that? She said. I was like, he said it. It's most likely cancer cells. That there was some cancerous girlfriend. Immediately. Immediately her eyes filled up with tears, and I was like, oh, my God, this is a bad joke. Oh. Oh, this is a bad joke. I didn't realize. I thought it was gonna be a funny. A funny thing.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, dog.

[Lou]

And so we get to the car, and I'm like, are you okay? She's like, no. And I was like, hey, I made

[Michael]

up the whole thing. I was just kidding. You let her get to the car. You let her get to the car is the best part.

[Lou]

She's like, so you don't have cancer? I was like, I mean, not on my balls, but so I thought it was funny. She. She did laugh.

[Michael]

Yeah. She stopped crying.

[Lou]

She cried a little.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lou]

So that's what I think's funny.

[Michael]

Is that autism hurting the ones you love?

[Lou]

Is that autism?

[Michael]

That's ism. It's very close. It's on the spectrum, for sure. Yeah, it's on the spectrum.

[Lou]

That's what I've been doing this week. I had to. I canceled therapy, though, because I don't like zoom therapy.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

You know, and I. I wasn't gonna go sit on. Sit on a couch. And because therapy would have been the same day as my vasectomy, I was

[Michael]

like, I'm not doing that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lou]

So that's what's been going on with me this week.

[Michael]

Oh, buddy.

[Lou]

What you been doing?

[Michael]

I think I'd rather have the vasectomy than the therapy that I've been doing.

[Lou]

Let me guess. Adhd.

[Michael]

Oh, yeah.

[Lou]

That's a people pleasing. And your mom's dead.

[Michael]

One out of three.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lou]

Let's hear it.

[Michael]

I've.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Man.

[Lou]

Hold on. Is your mom not dead?

[Michael]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

Big time.

[Lou]

Two out of three.

[Michael]

Well, yeah, but we didn't talk about it.

[Lou]

Oh, I see.

[Michael]

I see. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lou]

Go ahead,

[Michael]

man. I've just been. I've just been having to really have some hard truth happen lately, and without me, that's. Sometimes with you.

[Lou]

I thought that was my job.

[Michael]

It's.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You know.

[Michael]

Tell you something. Not fun.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Learning about yourself. Not always enjoyable.

[Lou]

Would you learn?

[Michael]

I mean, I knew this. It goes into accountability.

[Lou]

Yeah. Knowing things and facing things are very different.

[Michael]

Mm.

[Lou]

Yeah. You know, you should get a vasectomy.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

But facing the vasectomy.

[Michael]

Facing it.

[Lou]

Yeah. What'd you have to face?

[Michael]

My words do not match my actions in certain aspects of my life. And that is. Look at you. Grin. Okay. Number one, wipe the grin off your face.

[Lou]

I just. Oh, man, it's.

[Michael]

It's.

[Lou]

I can't. I wish I had a name for the feeling when things that I say to you over and over and over and over, and then. And then you're like, hey, did you know I do this? It's rage. And also, like, some sort of achievement. And also, I'm, like, proud of you. I'm like, oh, he finally. He's. He's skipped denial into actually he hearing what other people are saying. That's so nice.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I'm proud of you. Okay, go ahead.

[Michael]

Because it's here just to speak on that. I. I know you're right when you say these things.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

But I don't want to listen to you.

[Lou]

Yeah. I know.

[Michael]

Or anybody.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

It's not just you.

[Lou]

I know.

[Michael]

I. I need time to come around to it. My. One of my exes used to joke around that it takes me about three years to come around to an idea, which my. My time is. Is. Is getting better. It's getting better.

[Lou]

Was that true? Does it. Was it three years?

[Michael]

Yeah, roughly. It would take me a while to, like.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Damn.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah, I would, like. Hey, I don't know. I get busy. You know, I get distracted, and then I come back around to it.

[Lou]

Yeah, you're busy. You're scared of life. You don't want to actually change. You don't want to do change.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

You get it for sure. Yeah. Busy.

[Michael]

Yeah. My words are not matching my actions, and I've had to take some accountability for it, both with others and myself. Not fun. Yeah, I have. Where do I begin? The beginning of the year, I split from my situationship, and I went on kind of like a. Started the journey of, like, well, who am I? What do I want what am I looking for? Who am I outside of a relationship? Because I've spent most of my life inside of a relationship, and for the first part of the year, I didn't go on dates. There was no hookups. There was no serious dating. Of course, there was, like, nothing like that happening. And then I started to slowly allow, like, hookups to happen and things like that. What I have realized is I am not good at casual hookups because I'm a very loving and passionate person. And when you're with me, you're with me. And even on, like, hookups or hangs, you get girlfriend treatment. And that's not fair. Even though my words are saying, like, I'm not looking for anything serious. This is just casual, you know, I'm like, I'm very open about, like, what I'm working on and, you know, all these things, and I'm able to talk deeply about these issues and all these, like, I'm able to connect on that level and be serious and set boundaries and all these things. But my actions then, I am very loving. I'm very cuddly and kissy and I want to do things and sleepovers sometimes, things like that. It's. It's cooking breakfast sometimes. Sometimes you get breakfast.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

So, yeah, it's girlfriend behavior with casual hook up boundaries.

[Lou]

I would argue it's casual hookup statements.

[Michael]

Statements. Yes.

[Lou]

With no boundaries.

[Michael]

Yeah. Casual hookup statements with girlfriend treatment. Girlfriend behavior. That's not fair. And what I told my therapist today, I was like, you know, it would actually behoove me to be more of a fuckboy. Like, if I was actually more of. Like, if I would lean into that more. I think I would. It would hurt less if I was more. Whoever I'm hooking up with. It would hurt less if I was more of a fucking jerk or a fuckboy kind of thing.

[Lou]

Interesting.

[Michael]

But that's not my style. I want to cuddle.

[Lou]

It's so crazy that, like, I'm not a therapist. If you didn't hear the beginning of the episode. Yeah, that sounds like it's so rooted in people pleasing. It's just you trying to control how they feel.

[Michael]

Ooh, interesting.

[Lou]

If I was more way, they would hurt less, would they? Or if you just actions just matched your words.

[Michael]

Yeah, that's the answer. Obviously, I was joking around in therapy about. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't actually want to be more of a boy. Yeah.

[Lou]

I think. Do you think that could be what it is is that for you,

[Michael]

having

[Lou]

your actions match your words is uncomfortable. Because they might view you as a fuckboy and then that goes on your report card and then you just.

[Michael]

That's interesting.

[Lou]

You feel bad because they think you're this guy and you know, you're. And you're like, I'm, hey, I'm not that guy. So you.

[Michael]

That's definitely part of it.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

But the other part of it is like, that's just who I am. I am cuddly and all those things. Like, that's my behavior.

[Lou]

Who's that for? Is that for you or for them?

[Michael]

For me. I like that. I like.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

One of my, you know, love languages going outward is acts of service and physical touch. That's my outward love language. So you get breakfast and cuddles and, and all that good stuff. When you're with me, you're with me.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And

[Lou]

hear that. If you have a casual thing, he'll give you his love languages. That's my love language. I don't want a relationship, but I will outwardly show you my love language. Yeah.

[Michael]

How do you turn that off?

[Lou]

I don't know.

[Michael]

I don't. Yeah. I don't know how to not be that person.

[Lou]

Typically, I would say for me, because I had a. I don't know if it was a situationship before my relationship, but I had a long term person that I had a casual thing with.

[Michael]

You were really good at separating.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

How?

[Lou]

Well, we were both very much on the same page. I was just getting back into dating and she was just getting out of a marriage. So we were both very much on the same page of like, hey, we're dipping our toes into like.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

That world again for the first time in a while. So that helped. Yeah. And I, I have no problem with my actions matching my words.

[Michael]

Just. Yeah.

[Lou]

And for me, because I have the same outward love languages. Like I'm big physical touch, acts of service. So acts of service would come out. Actually, you know, I don't know that

[Michael]

it would, but you're more, you're more logical and I'm more emotional. Yeah. And so you're able to see it for what it is and cut it. And you don't have a problem. A, you don't have a problem kind of being the bad guy or rude or come off that way because you don't feel that way because you, you, you are big on like. I can't control how they.

[Lou]

Because I know I'm not being rude.

[Michael]

Right.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I get wrapped up in that.

[Lou]

Yeah. I also, when I see, when I see it being like, oh, she's cuddling on me more. Or I'm like, oh, this might be changing for her. I have no problem being like, hey, let's have a check in.

[Michael]

Hey, man, I do check ins as well.

[Lou]

Yeah, but then whatever comes up in the check in, I implement it.

[Michael]

Yeah, but then I just go back

[Lou]

to yeah, you go, oh, but it feels good to cuddle and there are no consequences. Yeah, I don't, I'm very aware of consequences.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I, that is, it's so weird because on my end, In, in my people pleasing ways and all that stuff, this is a rare instance where, like, I'm protecting myself, but I'm not protecting them. I don't understand. I'm setting boundaries and I'm making clear statements and I'm checking in and doing.

[Lou]

Setting boundaries.

[Michael]

But go ahead verbally. Were you eavesdropping on all my conversation?

[Lou]

Well, a boundary, yes is you, whatever, making a statement and then if the boundaries crossed, you taking action on it.

[Michael]

Now see, now I said verbally.

[Lou]

Right, so it's not a boundary. So you made a statement and then

[Michael]

what was a verbal boundary?

[Lou]

So you said something. You said. You said a sentence. Right.

[Michael]

I can't fucking stand you. Sure.

[Lou]

So give me an example of one of these boundaries.

[Michael]

The point is.

[Lou]

Right, okay, so. Got it.

[Michael]

You know, my fucking memory. And the point is you're on medication now, but. Yeah, go ahead. I'm not today. The point is, yeah, I'm doing these things to protect me and I know that I'm going to be okay there. I know that I'm in the mindset to like, I'll be okay, but I'm not protecting them. And that's in this case. That's the problem.

[Lou]

The problem is you're not protecting them.

[Michael]

Yes, because I'm not. Because my actions don't match my words and so it's misleading to them. And then they end up getting hurt even though that I know what I want and what I'm looking for and what I'm saying. And like, they're not believing it because my actions aren't backing it up. But I'm believing it because I know it to be true. Because I know this is what I'm. I say what I mean. I'm just not acting on in the way I should be. So I'm protecting myself by knowing that, like, oh, I know that I don't want a relationship. I'm saying that right now. And I will tell you that I'm, I am not in a place to Be in a relationship.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Mm.

[Michael]

But when you stay over or when we cuddle or when we do whatever, then those actions don't match not wanting to be in a relationship. Now, I know that I don't want to be, so I'm going to be fine. But you're going to catch feelings because I'm misleading you. Because my actions don't match my words. So I'm not protecting you from getting hurt in those moments. I'm only protecting myself or not protecting myself, but I'm just like.

[Lou]

Yeah, you're definitely not protecting yourself because you're here right now. And also, it's not your. They're not yours to protect. That's not up to. That's people pleasing and codependent.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah. You're literally doing the thing you're talking about. Now, you're not my girlfriend, but I'm gonna do everything I can to protect you. Okay? Because I don't want you to get hurt here. Hey, man. You doing it on the pod?

[Michael]

Oh, my God, you're right. Yeah.

[Lou]

That was a good moment.

[Michael]

Why can't I care less? You?

[Lou]

It's. I don't think it's about caring. Why don't you care about yourself more?

[Michael]

Well, that's a good question.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I mean, that's the million dollar.

[Lou]

Here's the thing. Boundaries are for you.

[Michael]

Yeah, I know you're gonna say that. I thought you were gonna say it a couple minutes ago. Yeah, but you didn't. You.

[Lou]

Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Why don't you respect yourself enough to listen to your own boundaries? That's not rhetorical. Take your time. This is me waiting.

[Michael]

Yeah. I don't have an answer. I know.

[Lou]

Yeah. That's hard, man.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah,

[Michael]

yeah. My therapist asked me last week. We ended the session with her asking me, do I think that I am able to go the rest of the year without hooking up with anybody, without getting into any situationship, without getting into a relationship relationship, without dating, any of that stuff. And I said probably not.

[Lou]

Well, at least you're honest.

[Michael]

Yeah. It's like, I don't know if I can do that.

[Lou]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women are a big source of validation for you.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got into that a lot today because I. I needed to know. I felt like you. I opened the conversation with my therapist today with like, I need to know the rules.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And she's like, what? I was like, give me parameters. Give me rules. Like, what about selfies? What about dms? Am I allowed to flirt? I mean, I know you said no hooking up. And she's like, okay, let's.

[Lou]

Like, I'm not a life coach.

[Michael]

Like, let's slow down. I was like, okay, Yeah. I was like, let's start here. I was like, I've been thinking a lot about what you said last week. If I was able to go the rest of the year without that, and I'd like to try.

[Lou]

So you are interested in doing that?

[Michael]

I'm very interested in doing that. And then she asked me if I was still on the apps, and I said yes, But I'm on the apps out of boredom. Right?

[Lou]

Yeah. Justify it. What else?

[Michael]

I really am. Yeah, for sure.

[Lou]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Michael]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Lou]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Michael]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Lou]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it, okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Okay, all right.

[Lou]

Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Trying to see some. Some.

[Lou]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's going to be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Michael]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[Lou]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Michael]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[Lou]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Michael]

I want the tea. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Lou]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Michael]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened. I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Lou]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Michael]

It was not a good fit, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Lou]

And you're married now.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Oh, no.

[Michael]

You're in love.

[Lou]

Never.

[Michael]

Never.

[Lou]

You're in love now.

[Michael]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Lou]

Dude, you're the. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Lou]

Let's do one together.

[Michael]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Lou]

I'll do it. You think I want to do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you?

[Michael]

Dude?

[Lou]

You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Michael]

I know you will.

[Lou]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.

[Michael]

I wrote a book which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries. And it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's more about moments, like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date, or, you know, that silence after someone says, I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the [e-mail] so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun [e-mail]. It's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out. Velvettigerbooks.com we all belong outside.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Lou]

What about Snapchat? Why do you have Snapchat?

[Michael]

Oh, for news. Why do I have Snapchat? Is that the dating app you think I'm talking about?

[Lou]

I think you use it for one thing and one thing only.

[Michael]

What do you think Snapchat is for?

[Lou]

Oh, trading lewds and nudes.

[Michael]

Now you are correct.

[Lou]

Yeah. There are more.

[Michael]

No.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

Is there more on your end? Do I have to delete Snapchat?

[Lou]

You shouldn't have Snapchat. You're too old.

[Michael]

Why?

[Lou]

Let's say it again. You're too old.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou]

Snapchat. If you're over 23, you shouldn't be allowed to have. You shouldn't be able to download Snapchat. Okay, I'm sorry.

[Michael]

I disagree with you.

[Lou]

I know you do.

[Michael]

You're also not a big sexter. You've sent one dick pic your whole life. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lou]

Didn't go well. It's out there. Still.

[Michael]

It's out there. And you know what? If you were on Snapchat, it wouldn't be.

[Lou]

I wouldn't be on Snapchat because I'm 36.

[Michael]

See, this comes back around to this age thing with you. You. You have these parameters set for age limits on certain things or like, behaviors in certain ways. I don't abide by those.

[Lou]

I know you don't.

[Michael]

The dude does not abide.

[Lou]

Don't.

[Michael]

I know you hate him. That's why I did it.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

There are some things that you age

[Michael]

out of, and trading nudes is one of them.

[Lou]

Do it in a text message because you shouldn't be trading nudes with somebody that you can't trust to have a nude.

[Michael]

Here's the thing. Yeah, I got no problem. I got no problem texting you some. Some nice, spicy photos. Yeah, but a lot of women are uncomfortable with that.

[Lou]

Then guess what? They're not for you. Right. Because you have an app just so you can get these pictures from these women. They're not in your pool anymore. And that's okay, because you are afraid you're gonna miss out, and that's why you have it.

[Michael]

Yeah, because I literally will be missing out because.

[Lou]

Yeah, you don't get everything in life. Sometimes you miss out. Sometimes you miss out. That's called life.

[Michael]

But you don't have to. Yeah, that's my argument too. You don't have to miss out.

[Lou]

You should be okay.

[Michael]

Oh, I'll be fine.

[Lou]

Will you?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

I've seen you miss out on something. It doesn't go well. It's not good.

[Michael]

I did not sign up for this abuse.

[Lou]

Is it abuse? What's abuse? What were we talking about?

[Michael]

I'm on. I was talking about how you go

[Lou]

the rest of the year without.

[Michael]

Yeah, I have. I have the fucking dating apps, but I don't really use them. Use them. I scroll them out of boredom.

[Lou]

Do you send messages?

[Michael]

No.

[Lou]

Do you send likes?

[Michael]

On occasion. Okay, so you're using on a profile,

[Lou]

you're using the day.

[Michael]

But I don't engage after that.

[Lou]

Yes, you do. This is just the most ridiculous you. She could bring your phone. Look at this girl I matched with. Oh, that's boredom. That sounds like a hit of validation.

[Michael]

For sure.

[Lou]

Yeah, for sure. So let's be honest about what you're doing with the dating app.

[Michael]

Sure. Now can I tell you that I deleted the dating apps today?

[Lou]

Good for you. That's great. Did you shut off your dms?

[Michael]

Now we're going to get to that.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

I asked about that. Yeah, that was after the dating app talk and all that stuff. She's like, I would consider deleting the apps. It's like, I have been considering that. So today I did that.

[Lou]

Good for you.

[Michael]

I'm off the apps.

[Lou]

Nice field as well.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Lou]

Wow. Okay. Good for you, dude.

[Michael]

Yeah, I knew you were. You see, you were waiting. You were fucking snaking me on that one.

[Lou]

You were snaking me because you always. I don't really consider that a dating app. Yes, it is. That's a dating app.

[Michael]

I don't consider field a dating app, but it is. It is off my phone.

[Lou]

Good for you. That's great.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Yeah. Beautiful. Proud of you.

[Michael]

Thank you. You're welcome.

[Lou]

Continue. Dms. I asked about, AKA all of your free time. Go ahead.

[Michael]

I asked about dms.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And she said it's not necessarily about the dms because I also also the stems from like hooking up too. She's like, it's not about hooking up with somebody. She's like, you can hook up, that's fine.

[Lou]

It's the three week relationship that comes.

[Michael]

Exactly. It's the time and energy that comes along with it. How much time and energy are you putting into responding and engaging with people in DMS or on the dating apps or when you're hooking up? And all these things, these things are taking away from what your goal is. And what your goal is is to be with yourself more and to be with your thoughts more and to be more active in your life, figuring out what you like to do, who you are, you know, all these interests, you know, getting out there more by yourself. Yeah. So she's like, yeah, DMS are fine. Just don't lose yourself in them. Hooking up is fine. Just don't do extended hookups, that kind of thing. And then she goes, I have a challenge for you. She goes, I want you to, if you really want to hook up, meet somebody outside of the digital world, like at a museum or something and try to hook up with them.

[Lou]

Oh, cool. What year is it, dude? You meet him at the market.

[Michael]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lou]

Actually, I mean, that is a good idea.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

It's one in the real world and just them in a bathroom or something.

[Michael]

Yeah. And that's fine.

[Lou]

And that's fine.

[Michael]

That's classy. Now. That's okay.

[Lou]

That is class C behavior.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Now making them breakfast. Absolutely.

[Lou]

Do not make them breakfast. Do not get their name. Do not look them in the eye.

[Michael]

You them in a bathroom.

[Lou]

In the bathroom, from behind, move on and you are gone before they pull the panties back up.

[Michael]

Like a good person.

[Lou]

Like a good boy.

[Michael]

You a good boy.

[Lou]

You tell them I'm gonna fucking leave.

[Michael]

I'm gonna fuck you in that last

[Lou]

stall and I'm gonna leave. You're never gonna hear from me again.

[Michael]

And you'll never hear from me again.

[Lou]

Consent. Yes. Good boy.

[Michael]

Let's go.

[Lou]

That's a horrible way to live.

[Michael]

You would never.

[Lou]

Oh, buddy.

[Michael]

You would never.

[Lou]

That's not for me. That is not for me.

[Michael]

I'm. Be honest. That's for me.

[Lou]

I know it is.

[Michael]

Oh, a little bit.

[Lou]

That's for you.

[Michael]

A little bit.

[Lou]

The. Oh, buddy. You go. A little bit. A huge hit of Validation and then just go on your day without having to maintain it. That's for you.

[Michael]

Little bit.

[Lou]

When are you. I have a question for you. Yeah. You had a different friend post this to you. Are. Are you able to face that you might just be a fuckboy? That that might just be who you are? I've thought about that and

[Michael]

no, because I genuinely care and I genuinely connect with people. And so even though my actions aren't matching my words, it's not in a. It is careless behavior, but it's because I care about who them.

[Lou]

How are these actions? Because you care about them.

[Michael]

Because until examining it further and like, you know, looking at the hard truth of my behavior and all those things, I thought I was doing the right thing by being up front and being like, this is what I'm working on. This is, you know, what I'm looking for. This is where I'm at. But then my actions weren't matching that. But I didn't see that. I didn't see that disconnect as wrong or hurtful. I thought that I was being careful. I thought that I was doing the right thing because I would. Again, I genuinely care. And so.

[Lou]

So doing. You thought you were doing the right thing by doing the cuddling and.

[Michael]

Yes, because that's how I show again. That's how I show effect. I'm very affectionate. I'm very passionate. It's my love language and all that stuff. So I thought like.

[Lou]

But a few minutes ago you said all that was for you because you enjoy it.

[Michael]

I also enjoy it. Yes, but I mean, that is. That is how I show love. And that's how I show you that I care about you. And that's why I'm not good at the casual stuff, because I care too much. Boys don't care at all. And so. No, I don't. I don't believe that I'm more fuckboy than I think I am or whatever. I just think that my. I was unaware of the impact of my actions. Not matching my words in that way was really how disconnected it was. I was unaware of that, truly.

[Lou]

So if you continue with that.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Then what. What does that mean about you?

[Michael]

Oh, that means I'm a bad person.

[Lou]

Oh, God.

[Michael]

Is that what you want? Your honor? Is that where you're leading?

[Lou]

I didn't know if you were leading

[Michael]

the witness, your honor. Leading the witness?

[Lou]

Yeah. Does that mean that you're behaving like a fuckboy? If you keep saying the thing and then doing. Not matching. And you know what? You're doing. Does that mean, oh, I'm. I'm kind of being a boy right now or what does that mean after

[Michael]

I'm aware of it? Yeah. Yeah.

[Lou]

Damn.

[Michael]

Yeah. Because I think then you are. I think of. I think that boy behavior is that carelessness, that recklessness. Right. And I think that goes hand in hand. If you are made aware of something and you about how harmful something is and you keep doing, then that is careless and reckfulness behavior. So yeah, that would classify you as bad person.

[Lou]

So you're gonna stop.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, I fucking.

[Lou]

Immediately.

[Michael]

Yeah. Are you not hearing me? I deleted the apps. I'm. Yeah, I've had hard talks with people. I've like, I'm. I'm. I'm clarifying all the way down to like if I can post a selfie or not. I asked my therapist if I could post a selfie.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

She said yes.

[Lou]

Of course she did. Yeah.

[Michael]

She's.

[Lou]

She's like, I can't tell you what to do.

[Michael]

No. But her point was again, like, it's not in the action of taking a selfie or feeling good about yourself.

[Lou]

It leads to a four hour conversation with whoever sends you a heart on it.

[Michael]

Yes. Or whatever that is. Yeah. It's checking my phone to see who has liked it. It's seeing how many likes it gets. It's. It's the engagement afterwards. It's the time and energy that goes into the behavior of the action. So.

[Lou]

So what is your therapist doing? Right. What are you and your therapist doing together to work on your need for validation? Like, is there any. Are you guys attacking the root of it at all? Or is it all just trying to manage behaviors of your current life?

[Michael]

Well, all this is coming up now like today.

[Lou]

Validation.

[Michael]

Well, no, not validation, but these behaviors that lead back are rooted back to validation in this realm. What we have discussed is. I mean, valet. It all comes back to. It all comes back to how you feel about yourself and not seeking outside validation. And I know that. And I have been getting better at liking myself more and feeling more confident and you know, being proud of myself in moments and those things and keeping you. And I have talked about it a few episodes ago about how the shift has been lately of like, this is just for me and I don't have anybody to share that with and that's okay. So all those things are adding to my self worth and self image, which leads into self love, which then feeds into validation. So the more I explore about myself and the more that I go out there and do on my own and really, like, learn more about who I am and what I like, then the less that I will need the validation of others to back up my own thoughts. Because, again, go. Even. Even when we're talking about these selfies, I was like, can I post a selfie? She's like, yes, you can feel good about yourself, but don't post it in hopes that you are going to get a bunch of likes. Or don't post it in hopes to see who likes it or. Or looking for engagement, whatever. Post it. And again, reframing, like, post it in a way that's for you. This is for you. You feel good or you feel a certain way about it, you want to show off, like, wherever you are, like on a hike or in a city or whatever the like, that's for you. And it doesn't matter if anybody likes it, you like it.

[Lou]

Does that feel true?

[Michael]

Yes. Now, is that impossible also? Yes. Now am I gonna go through and start liking my own post also? Yes. Wouldn't that be hilarious?

[Lou]

How many burner accounts you're gonna have? 44 likes. Michael 1. Michael 2. Michael 3.

[Michael]

Yeah, I'm working on it. Do you not feel that that's true, the way you reacted there? Do you not feel that that's true?

[Lou]

What?

[Michael]

Posting something that's just for you and it doesn't matter what anybody else likes.

[Lou]

I feel. Yeah, I think that's true.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou]

I don't know if you thought that was. If that's how you feel when you post a thing.

[Michael]

Yeah. Sometimes I will post things in hopes that it. Obviously, it is strictly for validation. Obviously. I am hoping that, you know, people slide my DMs or people to like it or do whatever. Yeah. Guilty as charged. Of course. Yeah. I. I'm. Yeah. My whole life has been, hello, look at me.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

So, yeah, it's a hard thing to shift from hello, look at me to this is just for me. I even asked about. I know you're gonna. You're gonna have a field day on this.

[Lou]

I can't wait.

[Michael]

What'd you ask about? I asked about thirst traps.

[Lou]

Mm. You love a thirst trap.

[Michael]

I do.

[Lou]

Did you tell her about your close friends?

[Michael]

Yeah. That's what I was specifically talking about was that I will post some riskier things on, like, a close friend's feed instead of he has women in it.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou]

Let me get in your close friends.

[Michael]

No, it's not.

[Lou]

Can I tell you something?

[Michael]

Here's. Can I tell you something?

[Lou]

Yes.

[Michael]

Here's. First, here's why okay. It's close friends for a reason. Because when I open up those, like, anonymous questions and things, I get nothing but hate from dudes. And usually when I do post something on my regular feed that is a little, let's say, sexier, it's dudes in the comments being like, so guess what? You don't get to see the real risky thing because. Because of the collective behavior, as dudes are so uncomfortable with other dudes feeling good about themselves that you don't get to see it when I am really feeling good about myself. Go on.

[Lou]

Having a close friends that is only women and women that you do not have close relationship with is boy behavior.

[Michael]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Lou]

Okay.

[Michael]

Absolutely. But I have no qualms with posting that on my main feed. I would not give two.

[Lou]

Yeah, you do it. You don't do it.

[Michael]

But what I. What I. What stops me is that behavior. Like, dudes would roast me. They. They come at me all the time about that. So I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to spend my day and my energy with those comments and those things. I get that enough, and I've had that enough in my life.

[Lou]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Michael]

I'm like, I'm a grown man. I don't have time to hold your hand while about how you feel about me without my shirt on. Oh, you. Yeah, yeah. You got me. We done here?

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Cool. So I asked about thirst traps. Because again, it feeds into. It's more than validation. It's a part of me. I like that side of me. I like the riskier, kind of taboo side of me. I like that I'm a very sexual person. I'm very open about those things. So to me, I don't give a. I like showing that side of me off. And it's not about whether it gets a bunch of likes or whatever. I like feeling good about myself and posting that stuff. That riskier stuff makes me feel good about myself. And it doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not. I like.

[Lou]

Doesn't sound like that's what's happening.

[Michael]

Why?

[Lou]

Because you're only posting it to people who will give you praise if you truly. It's your whole thing was, I don't care because I like it. Yeah, but you don't want to post because you don't want to be roasted.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's not about the praise. It's about the conflict. And it's conflict that I've had to deal with my entire life, and I'm tired of dealing with it. And if there's a magic button where I don't have to deal with that, guess what? I'm going to press it every time I'm not ready to. I am getting better at not having reactions again. When I was posting those anonymous question things, I would post probably 1 out of 1 out of 7 hateful comments I would get from an anonymous dude.

[Lou]

You don't know it's a dude, but yeah, it's anonymous.

[Michael]

Sure. An anonymous person asking me if I'm a top or, you know, those kind of things that I've had to deal with my entire fucking life. But because of the way I dress or look or because my. My hair is fucking done or this or that, or I'm in skinny jeans or whatever. Like whenever I have. Whenever I feel good or go out of my way to, like, feel good about myself, like, the way I look, the way I dress or whatever, man, don't. You know what? There's always a. Some alpha guy with a problem. Every goddamn time in my gut reaction every time. We talked about this a couple weeks ago. Oh, I'm gonna hurt you. Not physically. I want to make you cry. I'm gonna break you down. That's my gut react. That's my defense. And I don't want to be that person. And I am not in control of that all the way yet. I can't tell you how many times I have responded and erased responses to those anonymous questions. Just absolutely going after somebody's throat.

[Lou]

You've. You've posted a couple of them.

[Michael]

Yeah. And I've had to stop myself the majority of the time and be like, where is this going? What is this leading to? I'm just like them. I'm not like them.

[Lou]

Yeah.

[Michael]

So I'm working on those reactions, and I am not there yet to post those riskier things that I would like to post or feel good about myself on that feed because I don't trust my reactions to their reactions. I'm not Zen enough yet.

[Lou]

Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like advice, free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Bye.

[Lou]

And we know that Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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