Loading summary
Narrator/Advertiser
There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with alltrails. Download the free app today and find your outside.
Michael
Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. We want to remind you that we are not licensed professionals. We are not therapists. We're just two dudes that are going through it. But maybe you learned something, maybe you don't.
Lou
Yeah, yeah. We're just gonna talk about our own therapy. Yeah, yeah, maybe you relate to it. Maybe you hate us.
Michael
We do want to remind you that we have a Patreon. There's a bunch of bonus content on there. I've been doing some asmr. Lou's been doing some moonwalking episodes. There's after the pod clips, all kinds of stuff on there. So if you want to support us, that would be amazing. You can go to Patreon and check
Lou
us there patreon.com secondhand therapy pod. We also have merch available at secondhand therapypod.com if you want to contact us, you can email us secondhand therapy pod gmail.com or text us at 818-850-2448.
Michael
I do love when we get some text and voicemails.
Lou
Here's the episode now, because we don't need to do that. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.
Michael
I. Okay. Are you really?
Lou
I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University,
Michael
found some classes, bro. Oh, you fancy.
Lou
Now I'm out here.
Michael
He's a schoolboy.
Lou
Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career. You want to start a new thing. Snhu. What about you?
Michael
I mean, I love to learn.
Lou
Oh, God, he's never learned.
Narrator/Advertiser
I need to.
Michael
I need to do it more officially.
Lou
You never learned a thing anyway. If you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career, do whatever you need.
Michael
Go back to school.
Lou
Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.
Michael
Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?
Lou
They do mediums. They got mediums.
Michael
All right, I'll take a large medium.
Lou
All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10. Okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.
Michael
Okay, all right.
Lou
Talk about my love life.
Michael
Trying to see some. Some.
Lou
Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.
Michael
Oh, my God, I can't wait.
Lou
All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us. Cause I want to hear how it went.
Michael
Oh, I can't. Please, please DM us.
Lou
Oh, God, it's so much fun.
Michael
I want the tea.
Narrator/Advertiser
We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.
Lou
Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome
Michael
back second hand therapy. And we know that
Narrator/Advertiser
now.
Lou
When I say purple, just know my balls are purple. Okay?
Michael
It's not a good selling point.
Lou
Not my whole, not. Not my entire. Not the entirety of my balls, but up at the top near my. My. The root of my dick. My dick root, where they made the incisions quite bruised.
Michael
How big are the incisions?
Lou
I don't know. Like that they're real small.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
What is that, a centimeter? Two centimeters?
Michael
Well, that's your whole balls then, right? Set them up, knock them down.
Lou
The joke implies anybody measures their balls,
Michael
you know, dudes be out there measuring their balls.
Lou
Like.
Narrator/Advertiser
No.
Lou
What's your ball length? Oh, you a big mount for someone with short ass balls.
Michael
Idiot. How you hanging these days?
Lou
Yeah, it. No, they numb you pretty good. It's fine.
Michael
I could not believe when you came home, it. It looked like you just been to the grocery store.
Lou
Yeah, I just had. Well, I had two pairs of underwear on.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I had a pair of tidy whities for that. I'm going to be honest with you. A size small. Intentional. Cuz he's like, he's like, get some compression or a jock strap. I was like, I'm not doing that.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I just get a pair of snug ass tighty whities and I had my regular box briefs over it. So I was compressed. My dick looked like a turtle head for like the first few days because it was so smashed in.
Michael
I was gonna say it's probably scared. Saw what he did to the balls.
Lou
He's like scared too.
Michael
I gotta skip down for a few days. Yeah. So the vasectomy wasn't too wild. It doesn't seem like you.
Lou
It was.
Michael
I didn't really notice a change in you in the. In the last few.
Lou
No. It's a little bit of a gimp, a little bit of care when I sit down and stand up. Yeah. Yeah. It's truly much more mild than I thought it was going to be. It was not a big deal at all. Now. Okay. I don't know how much am I sharing here because we're making a little documentary for it. We're making a little doc if you're listening. We're have a little documentary on Patreon about my vasectomy and a couple life events.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
That led up to me getting vasectomy that are incredibly private. That I did not share on here.
Michael
That's right. And that documentary will only be on our Patreon for a while.
Lou
I'm like, we'll probably throw it on YouTube and I don't know, next year sometime.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I don't know.
Michael
But for now.
Lou
Yes.
Michael
I don't know.
Lou
How much, how much should I share?
Michael
I think you can talk about a little bit more about the procedure.
Lou
The procedure.
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Lou
It was. I don't know, the worst part of it was just the nerves. Just being nervous.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Because I didn't know what to expect. It was. So I walked in. I sent you a picture of the.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Like, it's a legit operating room. Like, they have monitors. They, like, all that.
Michael
Were you standing or sitting? Like, how. What was the process? Like, when he's.
Lou
You're laying on your back, Just laying
Michael
flat on your back, really?
Lou
And then they have, like. Like, a paper gown with a hole cut out and they put over you, and they just plop your balls out of it.
Michael
Why would. Like, they're already down there. Why did. Why do they have to cover your. You know what I mean? Like, we're already here.
Lou
I think it's just for, like. It's like any surgery. They only want to see what they're working on.
Michael
All right? So it's not a prudish thing. It's not like, I don't see this guy's dick while I'm.
Lou
And you know, when. When they have surgery, they, like, use you to, like, set things down, and that needs to be a sterile area. Like, the dentist, they. That bib is not for. It's because they put shit on your chest.
Michael
And I just didn't think they wanted to see my cleavage while they were.
Lou
They might. They might not. They're like, I can't see all these veins right now.
Michael
Like, all these tools are pretty hairy. Yeah.
Lou
Yeah, you. And it is a flat table. And then it had some, like, foot stirrups.
Michael
Okay.
Lou
Like, you see when women give birth. So I got on there, put my feet in the stirrups. He walked in, he goes, you don't have to do that.
Michael
Oh, really?
Lou
And I was like. Because I felt like an asshole with my feet in these stirrups. Like, I'm just sitting there. My balls are just. Gravity's taken over at this point. He goes, you don't have to do that. Just lay back. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I laid back, and, yeah, he gave me. I. What I'm learning is I might have, like, a high tolerance for anesthesia or nova, like, numbing anything like that. Oh, really? Yeah. Because, like, when I was getting my wisdom teeth out, they put you under for that. And I woke up in the middle.
Narrator/Advertiser
Oh.
Lou
And this. They don't put you under. They just numb the area. So he gave me a shot. They go one side at a time. They did my left ball first. So he's like, you're gonna feel a little pinch of the shot, which wasn't bad.
Michael
Felt like a shot. Really?
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Even in your ball. Like, you can just, like, look at balls. Mean. And it Hurts. I can't believe.
Lou
In your testicle. It's up on the side by your dick. It's just where the. They're cutting the vas deferens, right. Tube. So they're not injecting your ball. I don't think.
Michael
I couldn't see. I had the gallon on.
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Lou
So he gave me the shot. He's like. And then he kind of just like. He's like, you feel anything? I was like, no. And he's like, you're gonna feel like. He's like. You'll feel like tugging and, like, pressure and stuff. He's like, you shouldn't feel anything sharp. He's like, okay, so I'm gonna make the incision now. And I was like, yeah, I feel that. Definitely feel that. And he's like, you feel the sharp? And I go, yeah. He's like, oh, okay. He gave me another shot. He goes, do you feel this? I go, yep. He's like, jesus. Okay. So then he hit me a third time, and then I finally didn't feel anymore.
Michael
Oh, my God.
Lou
Yeah. And so they numb you out. They pull the vaz. The vas out. They remove a section, snip, snip. Take a little chunk of it out, cauterize both ends, and then he stitched it shut as well. And then if you're not on YouTube, you should be, because as soon as it was all done, I swear to God, this is what he did with my ball sack to get it back in.
Michael
He went, no.
Lou
Like, it was like he was putting a pillow. A pillow on a pillowcase. Just. Just gave it a couple juggles, put. Got everything to fall back in the hole. I swear to God.
Michael
And then.
Lou
Stitch it up. He's like, all right, other side. Did the other side. Same thing. He gave me a shit ton of numbing. He's like, okay, I gave you the same on the left side. And he. I was like, yeah, I can still feel you cutting me. He goes, are you kidding? He's like, I can't believe it. So he had to give me more.
Michael
He just cold cocks it.
Narrator/Advertiser
Yes.
Lou
And then they did the right side. The whole thing was literally a half hour, like, 10, 15 minutes per ball.
Michael
I just love, too, how even though all the advances in, like, medicine and technology and all that stuff, he's still shaking your ball sack like a pillowcase? Yeah.
Lou
Just.
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Michael
That's what I love about this whole procedure is like, we're still just human. We're still just like, yeah, stitch it up.
Lou
I sat up. He's like, all right. I looked down. He's like, this is the one incision. This is the other incision. It's like, stitches will fall out in about a week. He's like, where? Some. He's like, keep them up to your body so they don't swell and fill with blood. It's like Tylenol. If you're sore, that's it.
Michael
Huh.
Lou
Ejaculate 14 times, and then we'll. We'll go get your sperm, test, make sure you're sterile.
Michael
Oh, my God. Now, is there a time limit on this 14 thing? Like, do you have a. It has to be in the next two weeks or something like that, or is it just over the course of whenever?
Lou
It's just this. He estimate. He's like, it just takes about 14 to clear out whatever sperm are still in your. That's deference. Yeah. Because your body, your balls still produce sperm. There's nowhere for them to go now.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
So the ones that were in that are in the top half of the vase. You just have to flush those out. That takes about 14 ejaculations. Now, I have ejaculated twice since then, and both of them had blood in it, which he told me was normal and not to panic. And I said, oh, I'll panic.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I got to tell you, when you look down and see bloody cum.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
It's an alarming thing. So had he not warned me, I'd have jumped out off the balcony, wouldn't I?
Michael
Yeah. Oh, my God. It's like all those men on the Internet were right, you know, you got a vasectomy, and now you got your period.
Lou
Jesus Christ. Thank God you gave up comedy, you know? Jesus Christ.
Michael
I just. I remember putting. When we were putting in the doc together, I had to go through and find all these, like, these real tweets about men.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
And their ideas about what a vasectomy is, and they're just so fucking dumb.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Spoiler alert. They're so fucking dumb. And they're all in that vein of being like, whoa, you ain't no real man now. And you're like, yeah.
Lou
Oh, cool. Castrated yourself.
Michael
Got neutered. Yeah. Like, what are we doing?
Lou
Oh, dude. Oh, really?
Michael
Tell your wife to call me. You ain't. I can. You know what?
Lou
No, actually, this. I can come in my wife all I want.
Michael
Thank you.
Lou
Thank you so much.
Michael
Yeah, I'm into the worst.
Lou
Yeah. So that's. That's what I've been up to this past week.
Michael
How. How you feeling now? I mean, you seem great, feel great.
Lou
It's truly insanely minor. It's. Today is day eight.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
And the bruising is almost completely gone. The stitches. I think the stitches on my right incision are gone. And the left one. I think there's, like, one or two left.
Michael
When can you start going back to, like, physical activity, like gym and he.
Lou
It said about a week, so I should be able to now.
Michael
Oh, really?
Lou
Yeah. I still have a little tenderness, so I'm just playing it safe. Yeah.
Michael
Last question. Because sometimes when you. How do you stop from, like, does it itch or become bothersome or, like, what is that area? Like, when. In the. In the aftercare.
Lou
It's just tender.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Yeah. It feel. It feels like you're bruised. That's it. And you kind of have, like, when you get hit in the balls, you know, you have that, like, low kind of stomachache.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
You have that for a day.
Michael
It just feels like it. Like, with the stitches, it would be it. It's literally this big.
Lou
Yeah. No, it's just. It's truly just a little sore. That's it.
Michael
Wow.
Lou
Like, when you roll over in your sleep, you tend to wake up to be like, okay, let me roll, and make sure I'm not flopping around. Like, you just are intrinsically more careful.
Michael
Yeah,
Lou
that's it. That's truly not that bad.
Michael
That's great. That's great news.
Lou
Yeah. So if you're a man listening and you don't want kids or you're done having kids and you're scared about getting vasectomy, it's not. It's not a big deal.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Get it done. Covered by insurance. Yeah. Cost nothing.
Michael
I'm still. You asked me when you came home, you're like. You doing it. I'm like, I don't. I'm still.
Lou
I know you lied to me and said. I'm just. I'm like, 90. Sure. On kids. You do not want kids.
Michael
No, I.
Lou
You're just scared.
Michael
I am.
Lou
The way you lied to me made me so angry. I don't know. I'm just betting. I don't know. I'm, like, 90 on kids. You hate kids.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
What are you so scared of?
Narrator/Advertiser
Everything.
Michael
Maybe I'll meet somebody, get the.
Lou
Oh, and what, and they're gonna make you not. Make you want to be a father?
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Michael
Maybe they'll bring the.
Lou
Good God, you can't even feed yourself. You're gonna keep another human alive.
Michael
Maybe they'll bring Father Mike out of me. Okay.
Lou
That's an Irish Catholic.
Michael
We don't need right now. It's just Daddy Mike.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Maybe some girl will turn me from daddy to father.
Lou
No, they won't. They won't.
Michael
No, I know. I need. I need to get in there. I'm just.
Lou
You just scared?
Michael
Petrified.
Lou
What are you scared of? Ouchie.
Michael
Ouchy.
Lou
You scared of ouchie?
Michael
What if I go in and I. And I'm like, hit me with a double right away. You know what I mean? When they're numbing me, can I be
Lou
like, well, it wears off. So you want it, like, when you're having the operation.
Michael
That's what I mean. Just hit me. Hit me. Give me a couple right away.
Lou
I don't understand what you're saying. So get the shots out of the way immediately.
Michael
Yeah, give me. Give me double the shots. So I know I'm. Because you said you had to have the three shots during the thing.
Lou
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Michael
Yeah. Should I just double up just to be safe?
Lou
Well, when you've had a tooth pulled, did they have to give you extra dovocaine in your mouth?
Michael
No. Yeah.
Lou
You're fine, buddy.
Narrator/Advertiser
That's.
Michael
That's what you told me. Like. Like you had a wisdom tooth ripped out of your mouth while you were awake. Yeah.
Lou
Yeah. You're fine.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I assure you that was worse.
Michael
You sure that getting a vasectomy is less pain than a grown Russian man ripping a tooth from my.
Lou
From your jawbone. Jawbone, yeah. And then you had no painkillers after.
Michael
You're going to be fine, all right?
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Yeah. I need to get in there.
Lou
Yeah, you won't, but you should.
Michael
I know. I'm scared.
Lou
I don't. You're so scared of everything. I don't understand.
Michael
I.
Narrator/Advertiser
Scared.
Lou
Yeah. But.
Michael
So, yeah,
Lou
fear, usually. Is that a big shutdown for you? Yeah. It's mom.
Michael
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She. She's embedded. Worst case scenario in me. So when I think of how easy and painless your vasectomy is, I can't help but think about how the opposite will happen to me. I just automatically think that I'm gonna have bad luck and I'm gonna get in there, Something's gonna go wrong. They're gonna need to do extra work or, like this or that.
Lou
Extra work?
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Lou
They're gonna have to do the third ball.
Michael
They're gonna be like, fuck, we can't stop the bleeding. Or. I don't know what the fuck's gonna happen, but they're gonna. I'm gonna hear the. Oh. While I'm on the table.
Narrator/Advertiser
Huh?
Michael
Or somebody's gonna be like, huh, that's not. What's that? Or that's interesting.
Lou
You know, it leads to, oh, and then guess what? It's good thing you figured that out,
Michael
you know? And that's reframing, and that's something I'm working on. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.
Lou
They are a sponsor, dude.
Michael
I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, Find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.
Lou
Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.
Michael
It's not a good fate, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.
Lou
And you're married now.
Michael
Oh, no. Never, Never.
Lou
You're in love now.
Michael
I have to talk about this to my therapist.
Lou
Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?
Michael
Absolutely not.
Lou
Let's do one together.
Michael
Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on betterhelp.
Lou
I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy? A couple st.
Michael
I know you will.
Lou
All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.
Narrator/Advertiser
There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with the all trails. Download the free app today and find your outside.
Lou
Yeah, I did tell my girlfriend in the parking lot. I came out of the thing, and she's like, hey, how'd it go? I was like, it Was fine. I was. And I kind of whispered. I was like, there was a little complication. I'll tell you. In the parking lot. She goes, oh, okay. And so I finished checking out, and we got to the parking lot. She's like, what happened? And I told her that on the. I made it specific. So, so believable. I was like, they did the left side first, and it was fine. The right side, I had a little bit more pain, which I didn't know. I just thought, like, you know, the numbing, whatever. It was like, when we're done, he showed me the part of the tube that cut out, and it was like dark brown, and the other one was white. She's like, what is that? She said. I was like, he said it. It's most likely cancer cells. That there was some cancerous girlfriend. Immediately. Immediately her eyes filled up with tears, and I was like, oh, my God, this is a bad joke. Oh. Oh, this is a bad joke. I didn't realize. I thought it was gonna be a funny. A funny thing.
Michael
Yeah, yeah, dog.
Lou
And so we get to the car, and I'm like, are you okay? She's like, no. And I was like, hey, I made
Michael
up the whole thing. I was just kidding. You let her get to the car. You let her get to the car is the best part.
Lou
She's like, so you don't have cancer? I was like, I mean, not on my balls, but so I thought it was funny. She. She did laugh.
Michael
Yeah. She stopped crying.
Lou
She cried a little.
Michael
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lou
So that's what I think's funny.
Michael
Is that autism hurting the ones you love?
Lou
Is that autism?
Michael
That's ism. It's very close. It's on the spectrum, for sure. Yeah, it's on the spectrum.
Lou
That's what I've been doing this week. I had to. I canceled therapy, though, because I don't like zoom therapy.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
You know, and I. I wasn't gonna go sit on. Sit on a couch. And because therapy would have been the same day as my vasectomy, I was
Michael
like, I'm not doing that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lou
So that's what's been going on with me this week.
Michael
Oh, buddy.
Lou
What you been doing?
Michael
I think I'd rather have the vasectomy than the therapy that I've been doing.
Lou
Let me guess. Adhd.
Michael
Oh, yeah.
Lou
That's a people pleasing. And your mom's dead.
Michael
One out of three.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
Yeah, yeah.
Lou
Let's hear it.
Michael
I've.
Narrator/Advertiser
Man.
Lou
Hold on. Is your mom not dead?
Michael
Oh. Oh, yeah.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
Big time.
Lou
Two out of three.
Michael
Well, yeah, but we didn't talk about it.
Lou
Oh, I see.
Michael
I see. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lou
Go ahead,
Michael
man. I've just been. I've just been having to really have some hard truth happen lately, and without me, that's. Sometimes with you.
Lou
I thought that was my job.
Michael
It's.
Narrator/Advertiser
You know.
Michael
Tell you something. Not fun.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Learning about yourself. Not always enjoyable.
Lou
Would you learn?
Michael
I mean, I knew this. It goes into accountability.
Lou
Yeah. Knowing things and facing things are very different.
Michael
Mm.
Lou
Yeah. You know, you should get a vasectomy.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
But facing the vasectomy.
Michael
Facing it.
Lou
Yeah. What'd you have to face?
Michael
My words do not match my actions in certain aspects of my life. And that is. Look at you. Grin. Okay. Number one, wipe the grin off your face.
Lou
I just. Oh, man, it's.
Michael
It's.
Lou
I can't. I wish I had a name for the feeling when things that I say to you over and over and over and over, and then. And then you're like, hey, did you know I do this? It's rage. And also, like, some sort of achievement. And also, I'm, like, proud of you. I'm like, oh, he finally. He's. He's skipped denial into actually he hearing what other people are saying. That's so nice.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I'm proud of you. Okay, go ahead.
Michael
Because it's here just to speak on that. I. I know you're right when you say these things.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
But I don't want to listen to you.
Lou
Yeah. I know.
Michael
Or anybody.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
It's not just you.
Lou
I know.
Michael
I. I need time to come around to it. My. One of my exes used to joke around that it takes me about three years to come around to an idea, which my. My time is. Is. Is getting better. It's getting better.
Lou
Was that true? Does it. Was it three years?
Michael
Yeah, roughly. It would take me a while to, like.
Narrator/Advertiser
Damn.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
Yeah, I would, like. Hey, I don't know. I get busy. You know, I get distracted, and then I come back around to it.
Lou
Yeah, you're busy. You're scared of life. You don't want to actually change. You don't want to do change.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
You get it for sure. Yeah. Busy.
Michael
Yeah. My words are not matching my actions, and I've had to take some accountability for it, both with others and myself. Not fun. Yeah, I have. Where do I begin? The beginning of the year, I split from my situationship, and I went on kind of like a. Started the journey of, like, well, who am I? What do I want what am I looking for? Who am I outside of a relationship? Because I've spent most of my life inside of a relationship, and for the first part of the year, I didn't go on dates. There was no hookups. There was no serious dating. Of course, there was, like, nothing like that happening. And then I started to slowly allow, like, hookups to happen and things like that. What I have realized is I am not good at casual hookups because I'm a very loving and passionate person. And when you're with me, you're with me. And even on, like, hookups or hangs, you get girlfriend treatment. And that's not fair. Even though my words are saying, like, I'm not looking for anything serious. This is just casual, you know, I'm like, I'm very open about, like, what I'm working on and, you know, all these things, and I'm able to talk deeply about these issues and all these, like, I'm able to connect on that level and be serious and set boundaries and all these things. But my actions then, I am very loving. I'm very cuddly and kissy and I want to do things and sleepovers sometimes, things like that. It's. It's cooking breakfast sometimes. Sometimes you get breakfast.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
So, yeah, it's girlfriend behavior with casual hook up boundaries.
Lou
I would argue it's casual hookup statements.
Michael
Statements. Yes.
Lou
With no boundaries.
Michael
Yeah. Casual hookup statements with girlfriend treatment. Girlfriend behavior. That's not fair. And what I told my therapist today, I was like, you know, it would actually behoove me to be more of a fuckboy. Like, if I was actually more of. Like, if I would lean into that more. I think I would. It would hurt less if I was more. Whoever I'm hooking up with. It would hurt less if I was more of a fucking jerk or a fuckboy kind of thing.
Lou
Interesting.
Michael
But that's not my style. I want to cuddle.
Lou
It's so crazy that, like, I'm not a therapist. If you didn't hear the beginning of the episode. Yeah, that sounds like it's so rooted in people pleasing. It's just you trying to control how they feel.
Michael
Ooh, interesting.
Lou
If I was more way, they would hurt less, would they? Or if you just actions just matched your words.
Michael
Yeah, that's the answer. Obviously, I was joking around in therapy about. Yeah, you know. Yeah, I don't actually want to be more of a boy. Yeah.
Lou
I think. Do you think that could be what it is is that for you,
Michael
having
Lou
your actions match your words is uncomfortable. Because they might view you as a fuckboy and then that goes on your report card and then you just.
Michael
That's interesting.
Lou
You feel bad because they think you're this guy and you know, you're. And you're like, I'm, hey, I'm not that guy. So you.
Michael
That's definitely part of it.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
But the other part of it is like, that's just who I am. I am cuddly and all those things. Like, that's my behavior.
Lou
Who's that for? Is that for you or for them?
Michael
For me. I like that. I like.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
One of my, you know, love languages going outward is acts of service and physical touch. That's my outward love language. So you get breakfast and cuddles and, and all that good stuff. When you're with me, you're with me.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
And
Lou
hear that. If you have a casual thing, he'll give you his love languages. That's my love language. I don't want a relationship, but I will outwardly show you my love language. Yeah.
Michael
How do you turn that off?
Lou
I don't know.
Michael
I don't. Yeah. I don't know how to not be that person.
Lou
Typically, I would say for me, because I had a. I don't know if it was a situationship before my relationship, but I had a long term person that I had a casual thing with.
Michael
You were really good at separating.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
How?
Lou
Well, we were both very much on the same page. I was just getting back into dating and she was just getting out of a marriage. So we were both very much on the same page of like, hey, we're dipping our toes into like.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
That world again for the first time in a while. So that helped. Yeah. And I, I have no problem with my actions matching my words.
Michael
Just. Yeah.
Lou
And for me, because I have the same outward love languages. Like I'm big physical touch, acts of service. So acts of service would come out. Actually, you know, I don't know that
Michael
it would, but you're more, you're more logical and I'm more emotional. Yeah. And so you're able to see it for what it is and cut it. And you don't have a problem. A, you don't have a problem kind of being the bad guy or rude or come off that way because you don't feel that way because you, you, you are big on like. I can't control how they.
Lou
Because I know I'm not being rude.
Michael
Right.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
I get wrapped up in that.
Lou
Yeah. I also, when I see, when I see it being like, oh, she's cuddling on me more. Or I'm like, oh, this might be changing for her. I have no problem being like, hey, let's have a check in.
Michael
Hey, man, I do check ins as well.
Lou
Yeah, but then whatever comes up in the check in, I implement it.
Michael
Yeah, but then I just go back
Lou
to yeah, you go, oh, but it feels good to cuddle and there are no consequences. Yeah, I don't, I'm very aware of consequences.
Michael
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I, that is, it's so weird because on my end, In, in my people pleasing ways and all that stuff, this is a rare instance where, like, I'm protecting myself, but I'm not protecting them. I don't understand. I'm setting boundaries and I'm making clear statements and I'm checking in and doing.
Lou
Setting boundaries.
Michael
But go ahead verbally. Were you eavesdropping on all my conversation?
Lou
Well, a boundary, yes is you, whatever, making a statement and then if the boundaries crossed, you taking action on it.
Michael
Now see, now I said verbally.
Lou
Right, so it's not a boundary. So you made a statement and then
Michael
what was a verbal boundary?
Lou
So you said something. You said. You said a sentence. Right.
Michael
I can't fucking stand you. Sure.
Lou
So give me an example of one of these boundaries.
Michael
The point is.
Lou
Right, okay, so. Got it.
Michael
You know, my fucking memory. And the point is you're on medication now, but. Yeah, go ahead. I'm not today. The point is, yeah, I'm doing these things to protect me and I know that I'm going to be okay there. I know that I'm in the mindset to like, I'll be okay, but I'm not protecting them. And that's in this case. That's the problem.
Lou
The problem is you're not protecting them.
Michael
Yes, because I'm not. Because my actions don't match my words and so it's misleading to them. And then they end up getting hurt even though that I know what I want and what I'm looking for and what I'm saying. And like, they're not believing it because my actions aren't backing it up. But I'm believing it because I know it to be true. Because I know this is what I'm. I say what I mean. I'm just not acting on in the way I should be. So I'm protecting myself by knowing that, like, oh, I know that I don't want a relationship. I'm saying that right now. And I will tell you that I'm, I am not in a place to Be in a relationship.
Narrator/Advertiser
Mm.
Michael
But when you stay over or when we cuddle or when we do whatever, then those actions don't match not wanting to be in a relationship. Now, I know that I don't want to be, so I'm going to be fine. But you're going to catch feelings because I'm misleading you. Because my actions don't match my words. So I'm not protecting you from getting hurt in those moments. I'm only protecting myself or not protecting myself, but I'm just like.
Lou
Yeah, you're definitely not protecting yourself because you're here right now. And also, it's not your. They're not yours to protect. That's not up to. That's people pleasing and codependent.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Yeah. You're literally doing the thing you're talking about. Now, you're not my girlfriend, but I'm gonna do everything I can to protect you. Okay? Because I don't want you to get hurt here. Hey, man. You doing it on the pod?
Michael
Oh, my God, you're right. Yeah.
Lou
That was a good moment.
Michael
Why can't I care less? You?
Lou
It's. I don't think it's about caring. Why don't you care about yourself more?
Michael
Well, that's a good question.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
I mean, that's the million dollar.
Lou
Here's the thing. Boundaries are for you.
Michael
Yeah, I know you're gonna say that. I thought you were gonna say it a couple minutes ago. Yeah, but you didn't. You.
Lou
Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Why don't you respect yourself enough to listen to your own boundaries? That's not rhetorical. Take your time. This is me waiting.
Michael
Yeah. I don't have an answer. I know.
Lou
Yeah. That's hard, man.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Yeah,
Michael
yeah. My therapist asked me last week. We ended the session with her asking me, do I think that I am able to go the rest of the year without hooking up with anybody, without getting into any situationship, without getting into a relationship relationship, without dating, any of that stuff. And I said probably not.
Lou
Well, at least you're honest.
Michael
Yeah. It's like, I don't know if I can do that.
Lou
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women are a big source of validation for you.
Michael
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got into that a lot today because I. I needed to know. I felt like you. I opened the conversation with my therapist today with like, I need to know the rules.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
And she's like, what? I was like, give me parameters. Give me rules. Like, what about selfies? What about dms? Am I allowed to flirt? I mean, I know you said no hooking up. And she's like, okay, let's.
Lou
Like, I'm not a life coach.
Michael
Like, let's slow down. I was like, okay, Yeah. I was like, let's start here. I was like, I've been thinking a lot about what you said last week. If I was able to go the rest of the year without that, and I'd like to try.
Lou
So you are interested in doing that?
Michael
I'm very interested in doing that. And then she asked me if I was still on the apps, and I said yes, But I'm on the apps out of boredom. Right?
Lou
Yeah. Justify it. What else?
Michael
I really am. Yeah, for sure.
Lou
We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.
Michael
Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?
Lou
They do mediums. They got mediums.
Michael
All right, I'll take a large medium.
Lou
All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it, okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.
Michael
Okay, all right.
Lou
Talk about my love life.
Michael
Trying to see some. Some.
Lou
Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's going to be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.
Michael
Oh, my God, I can't wait.
Lou
All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.
Michael
Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.
Lou
Oh, God, it's so much fun.
Michael
I want the tea. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.
Lou
They are a sponsor, dude.
Michael
I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened. I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.
Lou
Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.
Michael
It was not a good fit, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.
Lou
And you're married now.
Narrator/Advertiser
Oh, no.
Michael
You're in love.
Lou
Never.
Michael
Never.
Lou
You're in love now.
Michael
I have to talk about this with my therapist.
Lou
Dude, you're the. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?
Michael
Absolutely not.
Lou
Let's do one together.
Michael
Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.
Lou
I'll do it. You think I want to do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you?
Michael
Dude?
Lou
You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?
Michael
I know you will.
Lou
All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.
Michael
I wrote a book which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries. And it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's more about moments, like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date, or, you know, that silence after someone says, I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the book@velvettigerbooks.com so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun stuff@velvettigerbooks.com. It's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out. Velvettigerbooks.com we all belong outside.
Narrator/Advertiser
We're drawn to nature. It calls to us. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives richer, calmer, and frankly, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it. But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby or trails worth traveling to and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Whether you're looking for a laid back walk with family or something more adventurous to get your heart pumping, Alltrails gives you the tools you need to get out there and find your outside. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.
Lou
What about Snapchat? Why do you have Snapchat?
Michael
Oh, for news. Why do I have Snapchat? Is that the dating app you think I'm talking about?
Lou
I think you use it for one thing and one thing only.
Michael
What do you think Snapchat is for?
Lou
Oh, trading lewds and nudes.
Michael
Now you are correct.
Lou
Yeah. There are more.
Michael
No.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
Is there more on your end? Do I have to delete Snapchat?
Lou
You shouldn't have Snapchat. You're too old.
Michael
Why?
Lou
Let's say it again. You're too old.
Michael
Okay.
Lou
Snapchat. If you're over 23, you shouldn't be allowed to have. You shouldn't be able to download Snapchat. Okay, I'm sorry.
Michael
I disagree with you.
Lou
I know you do.
Michael
You're also not a big sexter. You've sent one dick pic your whole life. Yeah. Yeah.
Lou
Didn't go well. It's out there. Still.
Michael
It's out there. And you know what? If you were on Snapchat, it wouldn't be.
Lou
I wouldn't be on Snapchat because I'm 36.
Michael
See, this comes back around to this age thing with you. You. You have these parameters set for age limits on certain things or like, behaviors in certain ways. I don't abide by those.
Lou
I know you don't.
Michael
The dude does not abide.
Lou
Don't.
Michael
I know you hate him. That's why I did it.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
There are some things that you age
Michael
out of, and trading nudes is one of them.
Lou
Do it in a text message because you shouldn't be trading nudes with somebody that you can't trust to have a nude.
Michael
Here's the thing. Yeah, I got no problem. I got no problem texting you some. Some nice, spicy photos. Yeah, but a lot of women are uncomfortable with that.
Lou
Then guess what? They're not for you. Right. Because you have an app just so you can get these pictures from these women. They're not in your pool anymore. And that's okay, because you are afraid you're gonna miss out, and that's why you have it.
Michael
Yeah, because I literally will be missing out because.
Lou
Yeah, you don't get everything in life. Sometimes you miss out. Sometimes you miss out. That's called life.
Michael
But you don't have to. Yeah, that's my argument too. You don't have to miss out.
Lou
You should be okay.
Michael
Oh, I'll be fine.
Lou
Will you?
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
I've seen you miss out on something. It doesn't go well. It's not good.
Michael
I did not sign up for this abuse.
Lou
Is it abuse? What's abuse? What were we talking about?
Michael
I'm on. I was talking about how you go
Lou
the rest of the year without.
Michael
Yeah, I have. I have the fucking dating apps, but I don't really use them. Use them. I scroll them out of boredom.
Lou
Do you send messages?
Michael
No.
Lou
Do you send likes?
Michael
On occasion. Okay, so you're using on a profile,
Lou
you're using the day.
Michael
But I don't engage after that.
Lou
Yes, you do. This is just the most ridiculous you. She could bring your phone. Look at this girl I matched with. Oh, that's boredom. That sounds like a hit of validation.
Michael
For sure.
Lou
Yeah, for sure. So let's be honest about what you're doing with the dating app.
Michael
Sure. Now can I tell you that I deleted the dating apps today?
Lou
Good for you. That's great. Did you shut off your dms?
Michael
Now we're going to get to that.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
I asked about that. Yeah, that was after the dating app talk and all that stuff. She's like, I would consider deleting the apps. It's like, I have been considering that. So today I did that.
Lou
Good for you.
Michael
I'm off the apps.
Lou
Nice field as well.
Michael
Yes.
Lou
Wow. Okay. Good for you, dude.
Michael
Yeah, I knew you were. You see, you were waiting. You were fucking snaking me on that one.
Lou
You were snaking me because you always. I don't really consider that a dating app. Yes, it is. That's a dating app.
Michael
I don't consider field a dating app, but it is. It is off my phone.
Lou
Good for you. That's great.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Yeah. Beautiful. Proud of you.
Michael
Thank you. You're welcome.
Lou
Continue. Dms. I asked about, AKA all of your free time. Go ahead.
Michael
I asked about dms.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
And she said it's not necessarily about the dms because I also also the stems from like hooking up too. She's like, it's not about hooking up with somebody. She's like, you can hook up, that's fine.
Lou
It's the three week relationship that comes.
Michael
Exactly. It's the time and energy that comes along with it. How much time and energy are you putting into responding and engaging with people in DMS or on the dating apps or when you're hooking up? And all these things, these things are taking away from what your goal is. And what your goal is is to be with yourself more and to be with your thoughts more and to be more active in your life, figuring out what you like to do, who you are, you know, all these interests, you know, getting out there more by yourself. Yeah. So she's like, yeah, DMS are fine. Just don't lose yourself in them. Hooking up is fine. Just don't do extended hookups, that kind of thing. And then she goes, I have a challenge for you. She goes, I want you to, if you really want to hook up, meet somebody outside of the digital world, like at a museum or something and try to hook up with them.
Lou
Oh, cool. What year is it, dude? You meet him at the market.
Michael
Yeah, exactly.
Lou
Actually, I mean, that is a good idea.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
It's one in the real world and just them in a bathroom or something.
Michael
Yeah. And that's fine.
Lou
And that's fine.
Michael
That's classy. Now. That's okay.
Lou
That is class C behavior.
Narrator/Advertiser
Yeah.
Michael
Now making them breakfast. Absolutely.
Lou
Do not make them breakfast. Do not get their name. Do not look them in the eye.
Michael
You them in a bathroom.
Lou
In the bathroom, from behind, move on and you are gone before they pull the panties back up.
Michael
Like a good person.
Lou
Like a good boy.
Michael
You a good boy.
Lou
You tell them I'm gonna fucking leave.
Michael
I'm gonna fuck you in that last
Lou
stall and I'm gonna leave. You're never gonna hear from me again.
Michael
And you'll never hear from me again.
Lou
Consent. Yes. Good boy.
Michael
Let's go.
Lou
That's a horrible way to live.
Michael
You would never.
Lou
Oh, buddy.
Michael
You would never.
Lou
That's not for me. That is not for me.
Michael
I'm. Be honest. That's for me.
Lou
I know it is.
Michael
Oh, a little bit.
Lou
That's for you.
Michael
A little bit.
Lou
The. Oh, buddy. You go. A little bit. A huge hit of Validation and then just go on your day without having to maintain it. That's for you.
Michael
Little bit.
Lou
When are you. I have a question for you. Yeah. You had a different friend post this to you. Are. Are you able to face that you might just be a fuckboy? That that might just be who you are? I've thought about that and
Michael
no, because I genuinely care and I genuinely connect with people. And so even though my actions aren't matching my words, it's not in a. It is careless behavior, but it's because I care about who them.
Lou
How are these actions? Because you care about them.
Michael
Because until examining it further and like, you know, looking at the hard truth of my behavior and all those things, I thought I was doing the right thing by being up front and being like, this is what I'm working on. This is, you know, what I'm looking for. This is where I'm at. But then my actions weren't matching that. But I didn't see that. I didn't see that disconnect as wrong or hurtful. I thought that I was being careful. I thought that I was doing the right thing because I would. Again, I genuinely care. And so.
Lou
So doing. You thought you were doing the right thing by doing the cuddling and.
Michael
Yes, because that's how I show again. That's how I show effect. I'm very affectionate. I'm very passionate. It's my love language and all that stuff. So I thought like.
Lou
But a few minutes ago you said all that was for you because you enjoy it.
Michael
I also enjoy it. Yes, but I mean, that is. That is how I show love. And that's how I show you that I care about you. And that's why I'm not good at the casual stuff, because I care too much. Boys don't care at all. And so. No, I don't. I don't believe that I'm more fuckboy than I think I am or whatever. I just think that my. I was unaware of the impact of my actions. Not matching my words in that way was really how disconnected it was. I was unaware of that, truly.
Lou
So if you continue with that.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Then what. What does that mean about you?
Michael
Oh, that means I'm a bad person.
Lou
Oh, God.
Michael
Is that what you want? Your honor? Is that where you're leading?
Lou
I didn't know if you were leading
Michael
the witness, your honor. Leading the witness?
Lou
Yeah. Does that mean that you're behaving like a fuckboy? If you keep saying the thing and then doing. Not matching. And you know what? You're doing. Does that mean, oh, I'm. I'm kind of being a boy right now or what does that mean after
Michael
I'm aware of it? Yeah. Yeah.
Lou
Damn.
Michael
Yeah. Because I think then you are. I think of. I think that boy behavior is that carelessness, that recklessness. Right. And I think that goes hand in hand. If you are made aware of something and you about how harmful something is and you keep doing, then that is careless and reckfulness behavior. So yeah, that would classify you as bad person.
Lou
So you're gonna stop.
Michael
Yeah, yeah, I fucking.
Lou
Immediately.
Michael
Yeah. Are you not hearing me? I deleted the apps. I'm. Yeah, I've had hard talks with people. I've like, I'm. I'm. I'm clarifying all the way down to like if I can post a selfie or not. I asked my therapist if I could post a selfie.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
She said yes.
Lou
Of course she did. Yeah.
Michael
She's.
Lou
She's like, I can't tell you what to do.
Michael
No. But her point was again, like, it's not in the action of taking a selfie or feeling good about yourself.
Lou
It leads to a four hour conversation with whoever sends you a heart on it.
Michael
Yes. Or whatever that is. Yeah. It's checking my phone to see who has liked it. It's seeing how many likes it gets. It's. It's the engagement afterwards. It's the time and energy that goes into the behavior of the action. So.
Lou
So what is your therapist doing? Right. What are you and your therapist doing together to work on your need for validation? Like, is there any. Are you guys attacking the root of it at all? Or is it all just trying to manage behaviors of your current life?
Michael
Well, all this is coming up now like today.
Lou
Validation.
Michael
Well, no, not validation, but these behaviors that lead back are rooted back to validation in this realm. What we have discussed is. I mean, valet. It all comes back to. It all comes back to how you feel about yourself and not seeking outside validation. And I know that. And I have been getting better at liking myself more and feeling more confident and you know, being proud of myself in moments and those things and keeping you. And I have talked about it a few episodes ago about how the shift has been lately of like, this is just for me and I don't have anybody to share that with and that's okay. So all those things are adding to my self worth and self image, which leads into self love, which then feeds into validation. So the more I explore about myself and the more that I go out there and do on my own and really, like, learn more about who I am and what I like, then the less that I will need the validation of others to back up my own thoughts. Because, again, go. Even. Even when we're talking about these selfies, I was like, can I post a selfie? She's like, yes, you can feel good about yourself, but don't post it in hopes that you are going to get a bunch of likes. Or don't post it in hopes to see who likes it or. Or looking for engagement, whatever. Post it. And again, reframing, like, post it in a way that's for you. This is for you. You feel good or you feel a certain way about it, you want to show off, like, wherever you are, like on a hike or in a city or whatever the like, that's for you. And it doesn't matter if anybody likes it, you like it.
Lou
Does that feel true?
Michael
Yes. Now, is that impossible also? Yes. Now am I gonna go through and start liking my own post also? Yes. Wouldn't that be hilarious?
Lou
How many burner accounts you're gonna have? 44 likes. Michael 1. Michael 2. Michael 3.
Michael
Yeah, I'm working on it. Do you not feel that that's true, the way you reacted there? Do you not feel that that's true?
Lou
What?
Michael
Posting something that's just for you and it doesn't matter what anybody else likes.
Lou
I feel. Yeah, I think that's true.
Michael
Okay.
Lou
I don't know if you thought that was. If that's how you feel when you post a thing.
Michael
Yeah. Sometimes I will post things in hopes that it. Obviously, it is strictly for validation. Obviously. I am hoping that, you know, people slide my DMs or people to like it or do whatever. Yeah. Guilty as charged. Of course. Yeah. I. I'm. Yeah. My whole life has been, hello, look at me.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
So, yeah, it's a hard thing to shift from hello, look at me to this is just for me. I even asked about. I know you're gonna. You're gonna have a field day on this.
Lou
I can't wait.
Michael
What'd you ask about? I asked about thirst traps.
Lou
Mm. You love a thirst trap.
Michael
I do.
Lou
Did you tell her about your close friends?
Michael
Yeah. That's what I was specifically talking about was that I will post some riskier things on, like, a close friend's feed instead of he has women in it.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Yeah.
Lou
Let me get in your close friends.
Michael
No, it's not.
Lou
Can I tell you something?
Michael
Here's. Can I tell you something?
Lou
Yes.
Michael
Here's. First, here's why okay. It's close friends for a reason. Because when I open up those, like, anonymous questions and things, I get nothing but hate from dudes. And usually when I do post something on my regular feed that is a little, let's say, sexier, it's dudes in the comments being like, so guess what? You don't get to see the real risky thing because. Because of the collective behavior, as dudes are so uncomfortable with other dudes feeling good about themselves that you don't get to see it when I am really feeling good about myself. Go on.
Lou
Having a close friends that is only women and women that you do not have close relationship with is boy behavior.
Michael
Absolutely. Yeah.
Lou
Okay.
Michael
Absolutely. But I have no qualms with posting that on my main feed. I would not give two.
Lou
Yeah, you do it. You don't do it.
Michael
But what I. What I. What stops me is that behavior. Like, dudes would roast me. They. They come at me all the time about that. So I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to spend my day and my energy with those comments and those things. I get that enough, and I've had that enough in my life.
Lou
Yeah, that makes sense.
Michael
I'm like, I'm a grown man. I don't have time to hold your hand while about how you feel about me without my shirt on. Oh, you. Yeah, yeah. You got me. We done here?
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
Cool. So I asked about thirst traps. Because again, it feeds into. It's more than validation. It's a part of me. I like that side of me. I like the riskier, kind of taboo side of me. I like that I'm a very sexual person. I'm very open about those things. So to me, I don't give a. I like showing that side of me off. And it's not about whether it gets a bunch of likes or whatever. I like feeling good about myself and posting that stuff. That riskier stuff makes me feel good about myself. And it doesn't matter if anybody likes it or not. I like.
Lou
Doesn't sound like that's what's happening.
Michael
Why?
Lou
Because you're only posting it to people who will give you praise if you truly. It's your whole thing was, I don't care because I like it. Yeah, but you don't want to post because you don't want to be roasted.
Michael
Yeah, it's not about the praise. It's about the conflict. And it's conflict that I've had to deal with my entire life, and I'm tired of dealing with it. And if there's a magic button where I don't have to deal with that, guess what? I'm going to press it every time I'm not ready to. I am getting better at not having reactions again. When I was posting those anonymous question things, I would post probably 1 out of 1 out of 7 hateful comments I would get from an anonymous dude.
Lou
You don't know it's a dude, but yeah, it's anonymous.
Michael
Sure. An anonymous person asking me if I'm a top or, you know, those kind of things that I've had to deal with my entire fucking life. But because of the way I dress or look or because my. My hair is fucking done or this or that, or I'm in skinny jeans or whatever. Like whenever I have. Whenever I feel good or go out of my way to, like, feel good about myself, like, the way I look, the way I dress or whatever, man, don't. You know what? There's always a. Some alpha guy with a problem. Every goddamn time in my gut reaction every time. We talked about this a couple weeks ago. Oh, I'm gonna hurt you. Not physically. I want to make you cry. I'm gonna break you down. That's my gut react. That's my defense. And I don't want to be that person. And I am not in control of that all the way yet. I can't tell you how many times I have responded and erased responses to those anonymous questions. Just absolutely going after somebody's throat.
Lou
You've. You've posted a couple of them.
Michael
Yeah. And I've had to stop myself the majority of the time and be like, where is this going? What is this leading to? I'm just like them. I'm not like them.
Lou
Yeah.
Michael
So I'm working on those reactions, and I am not there yet to post those riskier things that I would like to post or feel good about myself on that feed because I don't trust my reactions to their reactions. I'm not Zen enough yet.
Lou
Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like advice, free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you.
Narrator/Advertiser
Bye.
Lou
And we know that Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.
Narrator/Advertiser
We all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, Nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.
Secondhand Therapy with Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Date: June 15, 2026
Studio: PonyBear Studios
In this replay episode, best friends Louie and Michael get hilariously honest about masculinity, personal growth, and mental health, blending raw self-reflection with real talk. The episode’s focus is split: Louie recounts his recent vasectomy with unfiltered detail, debunking stereotypes and sharing the emotional and physical aftermath, while Michael unpacks his struggles with casual dating, validation, and the challenge of aligning his words with his actions. Throughout, the duo shines a light on the messy, non-linear journey of self-discovery, always with sharp wit and vulnerability.
Lou and Michael mock toxic masculinity around vasectomies:
Michael expresses ongoing fear about medical procedures and commitment, joking but also admitting deep-rooted anxiety, often stemming from his upbringing and worst-case-scenario mindset.
Michael reveals his mother “embedded worst-case-scenario” thinking in him, leading to catastrophizing even easy procedures (19:13).
He’s been grappling with accountability and the realization that his “words do not match [his] actions in certain aspects of [his] life.” (25:39)
Lou, amused and proud, calls out Michael’s pattern of ignoring advice until it becomes his own revelation.
For more bonus content and the documentary on Louie’s vasectomy, check out their Patreon.