ADHD Burnout, Executive Dysfunction & EMDR Therapy Breakthroughs | Replay

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy

Episode: ADHD Burnout, Executive Dysfunction & EMDR Therapy Breakthroughs

Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Date: March 16, 2026
Producer: PonyBear Studios

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Overview

This episode of Secondhand Therapy dives into the messy realities of living with ADHD, burnout, and executive dysfunction while exploring breakthroughs in therapy, specifically the use of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) for trauma. With their trademark blend of humor and heart, hosts Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone reflect on their ongoing therapy sessions, challenge each other’s self-sabotages, and share just how difficult real personal growth can be.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ADHD, All-or-Nothing Thinking, and Rigid Expectations

• Establishing Rigid Schedules:
  • Louie shares the arbitrary constraints he puts on himself, like only being allowed to go to the gym on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

    "It's a weird permission thing for me... it has to be the ideal situation or I can't fucking do it." – Louie (03:37)

• Cycle of Self-Sabotage:
  • Even on medication, he finds himself trapped by these internal rules, leading to freeze mode and executive dysfunction.

    "I suffer. I get in freeze mode and I... go over it and over it about like, I should go, no, I'll wait... and then it just—like I get caught up in that executive dysfunction." – Louie (04:29)

• Therapy Insight:
  • His therapist suggests redefining expectations—allowing for flexibility (e.g., going to the gym on off days for cardio or the sauna), rather than getting stuck in all-or-nothing patterns.

    "She was like, 'Let's set expectations... There are other things that you could be doing that you would enjoy or that would give you a workout or release some of that energy.'" – Louie (06:39)

2. Perfectionism, Productivity Guilt & 'Mom Guilt'

• Productivity Equals Self-Worth:
  • Louie discusses his struggle with feeling guilty when he's not being productive, equating his value with output.

    "My value is almost solely based on my productivity. So if I'm not earning my keep, why would you have me around?" – Louie (23:02)

• Mom Guilt Analogy:
  • His therapist identifies this as "mom guilt"—the inability to take time for oneself because of a perceived responsibility to others/tasks.

    "My therapist described it as... mom guilt. Mothers don't feel like they can take time for themselves... I feel guilty when I rest." – Louie (20:26)

• Action Steps in Therapy:
  • Louie’s working on setting boundaries, lowering expectations, and 'normalizing' taking breaks—even scheduling unstructured time with alarms.

    "Giving myself those permissions and then little by little, setting those expectations. Like, just go to the beach... you just got to get there." – Louie (26:04)

3. Social Engagement: Excitement vs. Detachment

• Contrasting Attitudes:
  • Michael rarely looks forward to activities, preferring to keep expectations low, while Louie can become overly invested in idealized outcomes.

    "I don't expect to enjoy things, really... I just want to chill and have some laughs, dude." – Michael (13:26)
    "I wish we could just meet in the middle. If you could have a little bit of mine, I could have a little bit of yours..." – Louie (12:22)

• Humorous Exchange About Risk and Fun:
  • Michael downplays the excitement of activities like four-wheeling, expressing more concern about risk and minimal excitement over repeated experiences.

    "What are the chances things gonna flip over?... Is the fun I might have worth this thing flipping over landing on top of me?" – Michael (14:50)

4. Burnout, Routines, and Incremental Change

• Burnout Reality:
  • Louie confesses to being in a funk, feeling burnt out and resistant to making changes, even small ones (e.g., hiking a different mountain).

    "I'm burnt out right now. I've been a little bit of a funk... Don't like it. Trying to get out of it." – Louie (27:30)

• ** Practical Adjustments:**
  • Little steps, like setting timers for work and breaks, help him navigate executive dysfunction and begin to allow more flexibility.

5. Therapy Breakthroughs: EMDR and Emotional Blocks

• EMDR Preparation & Anxiety:
  • Michael describes intense anticipation for an EMDR session targeting trauma from a previous relationship.

    "The anxiety I had going to therapy today was high... I could not get myself to leave the house." – Michael (29:35)

• Numbness and Defense Mechanisms:
  • Once in EMDR, he feels nothing—his body goes numb, blocking anxiety and emotion.

    "As soon as we start EMDR, I feel nothing. Just numb, zero emotions... I go from on the cusp of a panic attack to perfectly calm. Really?" – Michael (31:56)

• Therapy Process:
  • Working with his therapist, he tries to get 'protectors' to step aside so he can access the anxiety, ultimately managing only fleeting contact with the feeling.

    "I have spent so, so many moments in the last few years of my life trying to escape my anxiety. And today I was sitting in this room, like, trying to hold onto it..." – Michael (35:44)

• Insight & Acceptance:
  • For the first time, Michael feels a sense of readiness to share the full story of his past relationship and trauma openly—possibly signaling true progress.

    "I had this really, really weird moment... I was overcome with this feeling of peace. And... I think it's time I talk about this on the podcast." – Michael (39:56)
    "If you're ready to let go of that, I think we might have somehow made a big step." – Michael quoting his therapist (40:12)

6. Shame, Embarrassment, and Protecting Others

• Hesitation to Share:
  • Michael reflects on whether he's been protecting his ex, himself, or both by not discussing painful details.

    "I think I'm still protecting her. And... when I look back on a lot of things that happen, I feel so dumb and I'm embarrassed." – Michael (42:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• All-or-Nothing ADHD Logic:

  "If I wanted to go to the gym today, yeah. I couldn't because today's Tuesday... It's a weird permission thing for me." – Louie (03:16)

• Executive Dysfunction Up Close:

  "I suffer. I get in freeze mode... I get caught up in that executive dysfunction." – Louie (04:29)

• Guilt and Self-Worth:

  "My value is almost solely based on my productivity." – Louie (23:02)
  "My therapist described it as... mom guilt." – Louie (20:26)

• Therapy as Process, Not Cure:

  "It's about setting expectations... Just get yourself there." – Louie (26:43)

• EMDR Breakthrough:

  "As soon as we start emdr, I feel nothing. Just numb, zero emotions." – Michael (31:56)
  "I have spent so, so many moments in the last few years of my life trying to escape my anxiety. And today... trying to hold onto it..." – Michael (35:44)
  "I think it's time I talk about this on the podcast." – Michael (39:56)
  "If you're ready to let go of that... I think we might have somehow made a big step." – Therapist, paraphrased by Michael (40:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• All-or-Nothing Routines & ADHD: 03:16–07:25
• Guilt, Boundaries & Productivity: 17:05–24:04
• Social Detachment & Excitement: 12:13–16:17
• Hiking, Burnout, and Small Wins: 26:02–27:34
• Burnout and Being 'In a Funk': 27:22–27:44
• Michael's EMDR Session & Emotional Numbness: 28:06–36:34
• Readiness to Share Trauma Story: 39:56–41:17
• Exploring Shame & Protectiveness: 42:13–44:55

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Episode Tone

• Candid and humorous: Self-deprecating jokes about their struggles keep the conversation light, despite heavy subject matter.
• Vulnerable and real: Both hosts discuss therapy breakthroughs, setbacks, and daily battles with honesty and compassion.

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For anyone struggling with executive dysfunction, guilt, or the aftermath of trauma, this episode offers open, relatable conversation and genuinely valuable therapy insights—plus the reassurance that the process of growth is, indeed, "so damn hard."

Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod if you're interested

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[B]

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[A]

I want the tea.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. We need to remind you that we are not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. This is not professional advice in any way.

[A]

We have a Patreon.

[B]

We have a Patreon.

[A]

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Bonus clips. Bonus episodes. Kind of bonus episodes. We have moonwalking. We are going to be. Maybe don't tell anybody. Starting a second podcast.

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Ooh.

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That is going to be only on Patreon. It's going to be. We get tired of talking about therapy, so we kind of want a show to just dick around and we might do that.

[A]

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[A]

Can I try? Can I try?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

818 2.

[B]

Nope. 818-850-24. 48.

[A]

That's what I was going to say.

[B]

Thanks for being here. Enjoy the episode, Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome back secondhand therapy.

[A]

And we know that even if I wanted to go to the gym today, yeah. I couldn't because today's Tuesday and I can't go to the gym on a day. I can only go to the gym on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

[B]

Is it like your membership or something?

[A]

Yeah, this is my membership to adhd. I have to. It's a weird permission thing for me when I think about, like, it's like all or nothing. Thinking is. Is what it boils down to. And a lot of times I get caught up in that where it has to be the ideal situation or I can't fucking do it.

[B]

Why is the gym ideal? Monday, Wednesday, or Friday?

[A]

I just. Because that's when you're supposed to go.

[B]

Who?

[A]

Just. Just people. As you're working out, you pick three days a week, and most people go on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And that's the days that I picked, so that's when I'm going.

[B]

Those are the only days you can go?

[A]

That's the only days I can go.

[B]

So Tuesday, which is today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If your mind went, dude, I want to go to the gym today. Then what happens?

[A]

Oh, I suffer. I. I get in freeze mode and I. I go over it and over it and over it about like, I should go, no, I'll wait. I should go. No, then I can't go tomorrow. And then it's just like I get caught up in that executive dysfunction.

[B]

Even on your meds?

[A]

Even on my meds. Because it. It. Yeah. It's a weird thing about. I don't. I don't know. It's just like a. It's a permissions thing. I'm not allowing myself. Because that's not when you go.

[B]

I sure did.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I'm angry.

[A]

I know. I was talking to my therapist about this, and I've been telling her that I've been trying to go to the beach, right? But in my head, again, it's the all or nothing. So I have to have an entire day free to go to the beach. Which is not true.

[B]

No, you don't exactly.

[A]

It's not true.

[B]

Yeah. We also don't live near a beach.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So you got to have a few hours.

[A]

Yeah, it's about an hour away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's a. It'd be four or five hours out of my day.

[B]

Yeah. Not a whole day.

[A]

But not a whole day.

[B]

A chunk of a day.

[A]

Big chunk.

[B]

In your defense. A chunk.

[A]

So in my head, I'm like, I got to have a whole day free to go to the beach. And then I was telling her about all the things I'd like to do at the beach. You know, like, I could take a book. There's this. I want to get in the ocean. I want to swim. I've been swam in the ocean for so long. And she's like, well, let's start working on expectations. And she's like, what if you went to the beach and you weren't able to swim? I was like, I'd still have a good time. And she's like, okay, well, let's just plan on getting to the beach. Let's not plan on swimming. Let's not plan on, you know, all the other things. Let's just get there. And I was like, huh, Interesting.

[B]

So how was the beach?

[A]

I haven't had a whole day to go.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So I going back to the gym thing. She was like, let's set expectations for the gym. Why can't you go on the off days? That she's like, I understand. Like, maybe you're resting your muscles or this or that. You can only work out, like, do your routines on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. But she's like, you could still go to the gym. And I was like. I was like, yeah, I could go and do cardio or to go to the sauna or, like, just do whatever, you know, that's not in my routine. And she's like, exactly, exactly. So why don't you work on those expectations of just going to the gym knowing that, like, you're not going to be doing your normal routine, but there are other things that you could be doing that you would enjoy or that would give you a workout or release some of that energy or whatever you want to go to the gym for.

[B]

So how was the gym today?

[A]

I didn't want to go to the gym today. Oh, I'm so sore.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I went on a big hike last night and almost jumped over a rattlesnake. And.

[B]

Don't even get me started.

[A]

I know you and the rattlesnake story.

[B]

This. Because. Can I tell you what the story was?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I saw a rattlesnake. That's a story.

[A]

That's not fun.

[B]

That's what happened. Right?

[A]

Here's. Here's the. Here's the real story.

[B]

I saw a rattlesnake.

[A]

I almost got eaten alive by a rattlesnake last night. Yeah.

[B]

That's how you came in. That's how you came in and said, dog from the other room. And I went, yo, you went, I almost got bit by rattlesnake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And immediately I said, did you almost get bit by rattlesnake or did you see a rattlesnake? And then you gave me six or seven minute story about how you saw rattlesnake.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I almost got bit. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was gonna jump over it. But you didn't. But I didn't.

[B]

So you saw a rattlesnake is what happened. Sure. Right.

[A]

See, logically, yes. Emotionally.

[B]

Also factually, yes.

[A]

Emotionally.

[B]

Emotionally, what happened? You saw a rattlesnake.

[A]

I almost got eaten by a rattlesnake.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

Anyways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All or nothing. Mm. That's what stops me a lot of the times is this ideal reality that I've set or these expectations that. That live in the ideal instead of adjusting them to what might really happen. And I think that. I don't think. I know that bleeds over into all aspects of my life. I deal with that a lot in. We were talking about last week about dating and things like that. Like, I get caught up in the ideal, and then when things actually happen or whatever, it actually goes down. I'm like, oh, well, this isn't how I pictured it. Same thing with business and things like that. I'll go on these shoots and I'll think like, oh, this is going to be this way. Or I'll go into it thinking one way. And when it's not exactly how I thought it would go, I'm disappointed.

[B]

Yeah. I would say borderline devastated. Usually hits you pretty hard. Yeah.

[A]

It fucks me up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Because then it feels like a waste. I'm like, oh, I just wasted my time and energy on that.

[B]

Would you wait? Because it wasn't the ideal, like, Scorsese movie. It was just like a indie.

[A]

Yeah. Or whatever the expectation is. Yeah. I'm like. I come away from it being like, oh, that's not how I pictured it. So it doesn't count.

[B]

So if you just went into it, no expectations, you could probably enjoy life a lot.

[A]

Yeah. That'd be great.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Or lowering my expectations or trying to, again, bring them back to be more grounded with them. Do you suffer from that at all? Do you. How do you go into.

[B]

First off, let's not say suffer, okay? It's not cancer.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Are you suffering from this? Well, what's your question?

[A]

Are you suffering from these expectations, debilitating symptoms? Yeah. Do you ever. I mean, how do you go into situations? Do you. Do you have a. Like a. This is gonna go this way? Because I think. I think you do sometimes, but I think it's always usually.

[B]

I don't want to go.

[A]

Yeah, it's usually negative. I was gonna say it's usually like. I'm like, hey, let's go to this, you know, party, or whatever. And you're like, it's gonna be terrible. This is gonna be X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, okay.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, I'll get pleasantly surprised sometimes, and then sometimes I'll just be like, yeah, that's what I thought it was.

[A]

Do you. Do you often feel that way? Like, you're like, yep, that's what I thought.

[B]

Yeah. I have a pretty good. I have a pretty good gauge on what I'm interested in and things that I'm gonna enjoy. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised, or I'll go to a thing, like a social gathering and be like, oh, actually had a good time. That happens. I don't typically go in with, like, super high expectations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't. I don't plan to enjoy much.

[A]

And that's better than what? I don't know.

[B]

Probably not.

[A]

I wish we could just meet in the middle. If you could have a little bit of mine, I could have a little bit of yours, then we'd just be, like, leveled out. I just, like.

[B]

I don't know, dude. I don't really get excited. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't really expect to enjoy most things that most people enjoy. Like, if. If we had an opportunity or something, if someone was like, I don't know. Someone's like, hey, oh, dude, I got jet skis. You guys want to go jet skiing? How excited would you be?

[A]

Oh, so excited.

[B]

I'd be like, I don't even know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Really? Yeah. Don't care.

[A]

Jet skis.

[B]

Don't care.

[A]

What about four wheelers?

[B]

Don't care. N. That's insane to me. I'm sure it'll be fine.

[A]

It's going to be the time of our lives.

[B]

It's not. Here's the thing. See, like, that I'm not excited about it. I don't expect. I. I feel like I would do a thing once and be like, okay, I get it. I'll go again. It's not as great as the first time. Third time's not as good as the second time.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

I don't. I don't expect to enjoy things, really. Do you? I just want to chill and have some. I just want to chill and have some laughs, dude. That's all I want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you. This is going to sound harsher than it is.

[B]

Okay. I don't care.

[A]

Do you. Do you feel like you're better than these experiences or too good for them or something? Like, it comes off a little bit like, oh, I'm smarter than. I'm smarter than that to, like, enjoy that. I know most people enjoy that, but I'm like, I get it. The first time around it.

[B]

No, I think I just. I'm just not excitable.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So even if I am on the four wheeler and it's fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, and then I'm done and I'm gonna do it again. Like. Yeah, it's not gonna be as exciting. Why would it be as exciting?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is sex now as exciting the first time you had sex? Sometimes it's as exciting. You're that amped up for it? No. You know exactly what it's gonna be like. It's still great. It's still enjoyable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not excited. Like, when I was 17, bro.

[A]

Yeah, but you're still doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you'd still.

[B]

I still enjoy it.

[A]

So you'd still go four wheeling?

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

A one and done kind of guy, huh?

[B]

I don't even know if I do a one, honestly.

[A]

A none and done kind of.

[B]

Because also I'm just like, I'm. I'm too logical. So I look at it and be like, what are the chances things gonna flip over?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What are the chances of, like, whatever? And I'm like, is. Is the fun I might have worth this thing flipping over landing on top of me? Is it like, what's. Is it worth the. And I'm just like, dude, who gives a shit? Oh, I didn't ride a four wheeler today, okay? Like, what do I care, dude? Yeah. Yeah. I just. I don't know, man. I don't. I don't know, dude.

[A]

That's so.

[B]

Yeah, I truly just want to fucking chill out and hang and have some laughs with some people that are cool. I don't give a Fuck about activities. I don't care about activities.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not big on the activities, but I would like to be doing more activities.

[B]

Did you hear yourself? You're not big on it, but you want more of it.

[A]

Yeah, because I feel like I have almost no activities.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah, but I need. I need a little. I need a little bit of like.

[B]

What. What's an activity?

[A]

I would love to go four wheeling.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not all the time, twice a year

[B]

activity that you don't need equipment for. You don't need a friend who has a thing. What could you do tomorrow? If you were going to do an activity, what could you do?

[A]

I. I could go to a museum.

[B]

Cool. I love museums. Do you want to go to a museum tomorrow?

[A]

I would love that.

[B]

What's tomorrow?

[A]

Wednesday.

[B]

Can't. Actually. Might be able to. I'm just kidding.

[A]

Why do you hurt me like that?

[B]

I'm just kidding. I might be able to go.

[A]

That hurt.

[B]

I might be able to go.

[A]

You know what? I'm. I'm busy too.

[B]

Are you really?

[A]

No, I still want to go if you want to. I'm down. Let's go. Easy.

[B]

Onora.

[A]

Yeah. This. This weird permission. I do suffer from permission.

[B]

You don't suffer from anything.

[A]

I. I don't allow myself to do a lot of things. Yeah. Because a lot of times I feel like I have too much to do. Like, work wise.

[B]

You don't. But. Yeah. Why do you think you feel like you have so much work to do? Is it because I've been asking you to do memes and memes?

[A]

I'm just. Yeah. Fucking the meme. I got a meme, boss. No, I mean, I told you the other day when I was making out my list for the year, like, I'm currently working on 11 projects. That feels like a lot.

[B]

Are you currently working on 11 projects or are you a part of 11 projects that are not completed?

[A]

Six of them are probably all me working on them and the other ones are like things I have going on with others.

[B]

Okay. So of those six, how many are you currently working on?

[A]

Six.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Editing.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

Yeah, most of it is editing work. Okay. The majority of my work is editing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was telling my therapist that I. I don't allow myself. I feel guilty when I take time for myself, for me to actually think. Like, I'm not gonna do anything tonight. I'm gonna watch a movie. Are you out of your fucking mind? You're gonna watch a movie?

[B]

Let me ask you a question.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

you Ready?

[A]

No, but fucking do it anyways.

[B]

So this taking time to do things, is this a nighttime problem? Do you feel guilty when you take a nap?

[A]

No, because I feel like I need the nap so I could do more work. Mmm. So I feel like it's part of the work. Okay. And I don't nap every day. I nap a lot. I like to nap.

[B]

You nap on weekdays? Yeah. You nap on work days?

[A]

Yeah. I need a little crash here and there. Yeah.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

Yeah. But you don't feel guilty about that some days? Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So is the majority of your guilt, like, outside of work time? Business hours? Some would call it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the difference?

[A]

That's. It goes back to the whole, like, can't go to the gym on Tuesday things. That's when. That's when I'm supposed to be working.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Even though I make my own schedule and do all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you considered you're your own worst enemy? Have you considered that

[A]

every day I plot against myself?

[B]

If we were to peel back the layers of this onion, is it possible you're the problem?

[A]

Hi, it's me.

[B]

It's me.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, yeah. Now the meds help. Yeah, the meds have helped with daytime work time and also just actually getting things done. That executive dysfunction goes way down when I'm on the meds. My therapist described it as. You'll love this. As mom guilt.

[B]

As mom guilt.

[A]

Mom guilt is mothers don't feel like they can take time for themselves because they have so much going on. So they feel guilty a lot of the times when they rest or take a little bit of time for themselves because there's a lot of people relying on them, and they have other, like, a lot of things on their plate, so how could they possibly take a moment for themselves? And so, yeah, it's mom guilt.

[B]

All right. For sure.

[A]

You'd have a heyday with that.

[B]

I hate it. I mean. Yeah. How'd you get mom guilt?

[A]

Well, let me tell you.

[B]

Yeah. Educate me.

[A]

I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using Better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

Not a good fit. Hey. And that happens Finding good therapists is like a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now. Oh, no. Never.

[A]

Never.

[B]

You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude, you think I'm not going to walk out with the trophy A couple st.

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com Secondhand therapy we love you guys.

[A]

My value is almost solely based on my productivity. So if I'm not earning my keep, why would you have me around?

[B]

So what are you and your therapist doing to work on that?

[A]

That files under self worth and self value, which is not. Tied to productivity, and reminding myself that. And again, setting expectations of those around me, those I work with, setting boundaries with those around me, those I work with, those I care about. So that it frees me up from some of that guilt and normalizing. Taking a break when I need it. And also sometimes when I don't need it, just to have a little break. Because I can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But sometimes when I do that, somebody will come in and be like, do you have any memes? Are you working on memes? And it like really throws me off.

[B]

Yeah, it makes me feel like shit. Yeah. Cuz you. Cuz earlier that morning you said, hey, I'm gonna make some memes today. And then I come out and you're watching porn and I go, hey, are those the memes you were working on?

[A]

I wasn't watching porn.

[B]

So.

[A]

Working on a book anyways.

[B]

He's writing a book, guys.

[A]

I am writing a book.

[B]

We have slaved over the COVID of this book.

[A]

Oh my God. We've changed it so many times now.

[B]

Did I get credit for the COVID design?

[A]

No.

[B]

Did I work hours on it? Yes.

[A]

Is it out yet?

[B]

No.

[A]

So how do you get credit for something that's not out yet?

[B]

You guys should read it. It's going to be. It's going to be. It's going to be fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Great book.

[B]

I'm proud of you. Thank you.

[A]

So, yeah, so it's just again, allowing myself permission, Do these things even on the days that I'm not supposed to be doing and they're doing them on the times that I'm not supposed to be doing them or whatever.

[B]

How do you do that?

[A]

Little by little. So again, like, setting alarms or again, trying to find different expectations.

[B]

This guy said setting alarms.

[A]

Yeah, allowing myself like, okay, you have an hour. You can afford an hour to do whatever you want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or you have 20 minute. I did it today, actually.

[B]

Would you do in your hour?

[A]

I didn't do that. I said I set a timer for my work.

[B]

How'd it work? How to function? Great. What'd you do when the timer went off?

[A]

I stopped working.

[B]

And then what?

[A]

And then I did some physical things around the house. I like to mix up my day with mental and computer things and then get up and do something.

[B]

Physical chores and stuff.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's just about kind of like allowing myself again, giving myself those permissions and then little by little, setting those expectations. Like, just go to the beach. It doesn't matter if you go to the beach and read for two hours. It doesn't matter if you go to the beach and swim and get in the o. It doesn't. None of that matters. You just got to get there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've been doing that with hiking a lot where I'm like, I don't

[B]

know if I have time.

[A]

Hey, just go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've been going to the mountain a lot this week, this past week, and I feel great about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. Yeah. It's just that. Just go. Just get. Just get yourself there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good for you. Thanks, man.

[B]

How do we get you to try a different mountain now?

[A]

Why do you always want to switch things?

[B]

I just.

[A]

I like my mountain.

[B]

Well, you were up. It was only Griffith for a while.

[A]

Yeah, I like Griffith.

[B]

And then you tried this one, and now it's only this. I'm a. What if we mixed it up a little?

[A]

Yeah. You know what? That just takes a little bit of planning. I usually just go to this one because, again, I'm just trying to get there. And it's close and it's there, and I. I'm going somewhere different would take more planning, and I don't have the brain space for that right now.

[B]

Like, find. Just finding a different one.

[A]

Finding a different one and then going a little earlier and planning that and, like, all the things that go with that. Yeah. I don't know the.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

I'm burnt out right now.

[B]

Fair enough.

[A]

I've been a little bit of a funk.

[B]

I've been in a funk. You have been a little bit of a funk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't like it. Trying to get out of it.

[B]

Still in it.

[A]

Still in it.

[B]

Still in it. Still in it.

[A]

Still in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What are you working on?

[B]

Well, So recently in therapy, I've become uncomfortable very quickly.

[A]

Just now or in therapy right now?

[B]

Just right now.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

We've been talking about how my last relationship. She's dead if you don't listen to the pod. Is causing problems in my new relationship and my therapist. We've been gearing up to do EMDR around a lot of these traumatic events in my last relationship that are tattooed on my nervous system still.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And today was the day we did dmdr, so last week. Yeah. We picked out some memories that, when I think about them, hurt me or give me a lot of anxiety. Yeah. And today we tried EMDR on them. And the anxiety I had going to therapy today was high. Yeah. I. You know me, I gotta be on time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm not kidding. There's a sign in sheet at my therapy office. You put what time you arrive and your appointment time. Every single. I don't even try to do this every week. I arrive at 2:53 for my 3pm appointment. I got there at 2:59 today.

[A]

Cutting it close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I just could not get myself to leave the house.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I was on a phone call and you were still here, like, yeah.

[B]

Asking a question that doesn't matter.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Hey, you know where that picture is? You're like, yeah, something. I was like, okay, just forget about it.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, oh, he's scrambling.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So I got to therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right on time. And a lot of anxiety because we ended last week with her saying, can we get right into EMDR next week? And I was like, yeah, that. That's fine. Let's do it. She's like, because, you know, we're gonna need time if we need to stop and pause or if it gets big, if we need to work down. She's like, so can we just get right into it? And I said, yeah, that's fine. So I get there very nervous, very anxious. She's like, seem a little anxious. I was like, yeah, I know what we're doing today. Let's just. Let's do it and then let's just get it over with. Yeah. And she's like, well, she, like, you know, did the thing. She's like, you have full authority here. Like, if we need to stop, we can stop. If you don't want to do it, we don't have to. And I'm like, let's just do it. Let's just get it over with. Yeah. So we do like the little evaluation before. When you think of this memory, how bad is it? So you can monitor how you are reprocessing. Then we start. And as soon as we start emdr, I feel nothing. Just numb, zero emotions. I go from on the cusp of a panic attack to perfectly calm. Really? Yeah. So we're sitting there, I got my eyes closed. She's tapping on my knees because I can't do the eye movement because my contacts and I have the eye condition.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

Yeah. And we're doing it, you know, she's talk. She's like, think of the memory, think of the feelings. And then every like 30 seconds, she'll stop and like, okay, what came up? I'm like, nothing. She's like, do you still have that anxiety in your chest? I was like, no, I don't feel anything. So then we spent probably the next 20 minutes doing exercises to see if we could get whatever protectors of mine. As I'm doing parts work to step aside so I could actually process and feel what was going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it took a while. Really, buddy. Could not. I'm. I'm thinking about this horrific memory in my head. Zero anxiety, no tears welling up, nothing. I'm just like, yeah, that was a weird time. Just stone faced. So then we're. Yeah, we're basically like focusing on that, like that numbness or the white sound kind of. And trying to get it to step aside. Yeah. And eventually I was able to, like, find that anxiety again. Just like a pinch of it. I could just barely feel it in my chest. And I was like, okay, I think I got a little. Because I'm like, trying. I'm like, I don't want to do this for the next four sessions. Like, let's get this the fuck over with.

[A]

Yeah. So when you're, when you're searching for those emotions, what is it? What are you physically doing or what are you mentally doing when you're looking for that?

[B]

I'm either sitting there with my eyes closed, or I'm just staring at the wall. And I'm thinking of the memory and how it makes me feel now, because thinking about it on my drive over there, almost having a panic attack thinking about it in the room. Nothing. Yeah. So something in me put this wall up of we are not feeling this.

[A]

Yeah. How do you talk those protectors down then? Does she help you with that or is it you? Okay. Yeah.

[B]

We do basically kind of the same EMDR things, which will tap on my knees and I focus on that numbness and trying to talk to those parts and just like, asking them, like, can you just trust me and step aside and everything's gonna be okay. And we do that. And little by little, it comes back. And then we had to, like, when I was able to find that anxiety again, we would literally sit there and I would just close my eyes and feel that feeling for five seconds and see if I could keep it. And I did. Kept her five seconds, felt the anxiety. She's like, okay, let's try 10. I was like, okay. And when I tell you I felt like my chest was gonna explode. Did not like it. Wow. We did 10. And I was like, oh, no, it's happening. And she goes, and that's 10. And I opened my eyes and instantly gone, just right back down.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Like, my body was just like, nah, not doing that. Wow. Yeah. And I was like, I had it for 10. And I was like, it was. It felt like it was gonna erupt. And she's like, okay, let's see if we can find it again. And we found it, and I was able to hold on to it for, like, 20 seconds. But after that 10, when it felt like it was gonna explode, I felt like I had to, like, grasp onto it. Like, I would find this little bit of anxiety and I would have to, like, hold it to be able to feel it. And. It was a fucking weird day, man. It was a weird, weird experience of, like. I have spent so, so many moments in the last few years of my life trying to escape my anxiety. And today I was sitting in this room, like, trying to hold onto it, and it was this weird mind fuck of a moment. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it. All right.

[A]

Okay. Are you really?

[B]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University,

[A]

found some classes, bro. Oh, you fancy. Now I'm out here He's a schoolboy.

[B]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career. You want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[A]

I mean, I love to learn.

[B]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[A]

I need to do it more.

[B]

Officially, you never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, Start a new career. Do whatever you need.

[A]

Go back to school.

[B]

Snhu Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info. Start some learning. You're welcome. Yeah. And all I wanted to do was just, like, not be a person who couldn't feel something. Yeah, it felt. Oh, man, it felt so weird. I'm sitting there, like, with this horrific memory, and I couldn't feel anything. And I was like, oh, what is wrong with me? It was. It was. It was a. It was a mind, man.

[A]

Did you get. Were you able to get through any of the. Any of the. Did you actually get any work done?

[B]

Yeah, I. Yeah, surprisingly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do feel like we got some. Some. Some things done. I. I've never really told that story publicly. Just, you know, the last relationship and, like, how it played out and how she died. And I've only talked about it, especially on here, and even in. In my film. I've only talked about it with regards to grief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had this really, really weird moment today when I was sitting with my eyes closed, and I'm just, like, thinking about this memory, and she's tapping on my knees, and it was like this. I don't even know how to describe was just this weird, like, overcoming. I was overcome with this feeling of peace. And the only thing I think about was like, I think it's time I talk about this on the podcast.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I think it's time for me to just tell this story. And I told my therapist that. And she's like, that tells me we're getting somewhere.

[A]

Yeah, that's huge.

[B]

She's like, if you're ready to let go of that. She's like, I think we might have somehow made a big step. She's like, how does it feel, the idea of talking about it? I was like, it feels like the exact right thing to do. I was like, it feels so peaceful and. And I. I can't help but wonder if I finally. I don't know, talk about this openly.

[A]

Yeah. Is it acceptance? I mean, what is the.

[B]

I just wonder if it'll free me up in therapy because there are. So. Only people close to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Know that story. And. No.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder if it would just free me up if. Want to go into therapy to try to feel these things that I'm like, everybody knows now. Like. I don't. I'm not protecting anybody anymore. I'm not.

[A]

Does it feel like you've been carrying, like, a secret or something, or is it.

[B]

I don't. Not consciously.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Were you ashamed to share it or Just didn't feel like it was anybody's business or.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Did you just feel like it just belonged to you?

[B]

It feels. It feels like. Honestly, my thing is, I think I'm still protecting her.

[A]

Yeah. This guy's just gonna.

[B]

And I think it's that. And I think when I look back on a lot of things that happen, I feel so dumb and I'm embarrassed.

[A]

Embarrassment.

[B]

Yeah. So. Yeah. I think those are the two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's time to tell the story. I don't know. What do you think?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't say. Yeah. Think about it.

[A]

I am thinking about it.

[B]

Shut up. Really? You think so?

[A]

I think you're right about feeling like you're protecting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's interesting. Just peel back, dive into, like, what are you protecting? Is it her or is it ego from embarrassment? You know, maybe both.

[B]

I think it's both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's. It's hard to. I don't know. I think it's just the idea of, like. Because I really haven't talked about. I've only talked about the grief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is gonna be all the horrific shit. And that's the picture that's gonna be painted of her. And that feels unfair, but also it's true.

[A]

And also it doesn't have to be. You're. You're. You're the storyteller. You're the narrator. So it doesn't have to be all. All the negative stuff. You can share some of the good stuff, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I think anybody who's been in a relationship knows that it's not all good and it's not all bad. There are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even in horrific relationships. There's moments or else there wouldn't be a relationship.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know man. Yeah, maybe we'll talk about it next week. Can the episode be over now? And we know that Jesus, that's a bear.

[C]

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