Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy
Episode: ADHD Burnout, Executive Dysfunction & EMDR Therapy Breakthroughs
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Date: March 16, 2026
Producer: PonyBear Studios
Overview
This episode of Secondhand Therapy dives into the messy realities of living with ADHD, burnout, and executive dysfunction while exploring breakthroughs in therapy, specifically the use of EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) for trauma. With their trademark blend of humor and heart, hosts Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone reflect on their ongoing therapy sessions, challenge each other’s self-sabotages, and share just how difficult real personal growth can be.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. ADHD, All-or-Nothing Thinking, and Rigid Expectations
- Establishing Rigid Schedules:
- Louie shares the arbitrary constraints he puts on himself, like only being allowed to go to the gym on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
"It's a weird permission thing for me... it has to be the ideal situation or I can't fucking do it." – Louie (03:37)
- Louie shares the arbitrary constraints he puts on himself, like only being allowed to go to the gym on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
- Cycle of Self-Sabotage:
- Even on medication, he finds himself trapped by these internal rules, leading to freeze mode and executive dysfunction.
"I suffer. I get in freeze mode and I... go over it and over it about like, I should go, no, I'll wait... and then it just—like I get caught up in that executive dysfunction." – Louie (04:29)
- Even on medication, he finds himself trapped by these internal rules, leading to freeze mode and executive dysfunction.
- Therapy Insight:
- His therapist suggests redefining expectations—allowing for flexibility (e.g., going to the gym on off days for cardio or the sauna), rather than getting stuck in all-or-nothing patterns.
"She was like, 'Let's set expectations... There are other things that you could be doing that you would enjoy or that would give you a workout or release some of that energy.'" – Louie (06:39)
- His therapist suggests redefining expectations—allowing for flexibility (e.g., going to the gym on off days for cardio or the sauna), rather than getting stuck in all-or-nothing patterns.
2. Perfectionism, Productivity Guilt & 'Mom Guilt'
- Productivity Equals Self-Worth:
- Louie discusses his struggle with feeling guilty when he's not being productive, equating his value with output.
"My value is almost solely based on my productivity. So if I'm not earning my keep, why would you have me around?" – Louie (23:02)
- Louie discusses his struggle with feeling guilty when he's not being productive, equating his value with output.
- Mom Guilt Analogy:
- His therapist identifies this as "mom guilt"—the inability to take time for oneself because of a perceived responsibility to others/tasks.
"My therapist described it as... mom guilt. Mothers don't feel like they can take time for themselves... I feel guilty when I rest." – Louie (20:26)
- His therapist identifies this as "mom guilt"—the inability to take time for oneself because of a perceived responsibility to others/tasks.
- Action Steps in Therapy:
- Louie’s working on setting boundaries, lowering expectations, and 'normalizing' taking breaks—even scheduling unstructured time with alarms.
"Giving myself those permissions and then little by little, setting those expectations. Like, just go to the beach... you just got to get there." – Louie (26:04)
- Louie’s working on setting boundaries, lowering expectations, and 'normalizing' taking breaks—even scheduling unstructured time with alarms.
3. Social Engagement: Excitement vs. Detachment
- Contrasting Attitudes:
- Michael rarely looks forward to activities, preferring to keep expectations low, while Louie can become overly invested in idealized outcomes.
"I don't expect to enjoy things, really... I just want to chill and have some laughs, dude." – Michael (13:26)
"I wish we could just meet in the middle. If you could have a little bit of mine, I could have a little bit of yours..." – Louie (12:22)
- Michael rarely looks forward to activities, preferring to keep expectations low, while Louie can become overly invested in idealized outcomes.
- Humorous Exchange About Risk and Fun:
- Michael downplays the excitement of activities like four-wheeling, expressing more concern about risk and minimal excitement over repeated experiences.
"What are the chances things gonna flip over?... Is the fun I might have worth this thing flipping over landing on top of me?" – Michael (14:50)
- Michael downplays the excitement of activities like four-wheeling, expressing more concern about risk and minimal excitement over repeated experiences.
4. Burnout, Routines, and Incremental Change
- Burnout Reality:
- Louie confesses to being in a funk, feeling burnt out and resistant to making changes, even small ones (e.g., hiking a different mountain).
"I'm burnt out right now. I've been a little bit of a funk... Don't like it. Trying to get out of it." – Louie (27:30)
- Louie confesses to being in a funk, feeling burnt out and resistant to making changes, even small ones (e.g., hiking a different mountain).
- ** Practical Adjustments:**
- Little steps, like setting timers for work and breaks, help him navigate executive dysfunction and begin to allow more flexibility.
5. Therapy Breakthroughs: EMDR and Emotional Blocks
- EMDR Preparation & Anxiety:
- Michael describes intense anticipation for an EMDR session targeting trauma from a previous relationship.
"The anxiety I had going to therapy today was high... I could not get myself to leave the house." – Michael (29:35)
- Michael describes intense anticipation for an EMDR session targeting trauma from a previous relationship.
- Numbness and Defense Mechanisms:
- Once in EMDR, he feels nothing—his body goes numb, blocking anxiety and emotion.
"As soon as we start EMDR, I feel nothing. Just numb, zero emotions... I go from on the cusp of a panic attack to perfectly calm. Really?" – Michael (31:56)
- Once in EMDR, he feels nothing—his body goes numb, blocking anxiety and emotion.
- Therapy Process:
- Working with his therapist, he tries to get 'protectors' to step aside so he can access the anxiety, ultimately managing only fleeting contact with the feeling.
"I have spent so, so many moments in the last few years of my life trying to escape my anxiety. And today I was sitting in this room, like, trying to hold onto it..." – Michael (35:44)
- Working with his therapist, he tries to get 'protectors' to step aside so he can access the anxiety, ultimately managing only fleeting contact with the feeling.
- Insight & Acceptance:
- For the first time, Michael feels a sense of readiness to share the full story of his past relationship and trauma openly—possibly signaling true progress.
"I had this really, really weird moment... I was overcome with this feeling of peace. And... I think it's time I talk about this on the podcast." – Michael (39:56)
"If you're ready to let go of that, I think we might have somehow made a big step." – Michael quoting his therapist (40:12)
- For the first time, Michael feels a sense of readiness to share the full story of his past relationship and trauma openly—possibly signaling true progress.
6. Shame, Embarrassment, and Protecting Others
- Hesitation to Share:
- Michael reflects on whether he's been protecting his ex, himself, or both by not discussing painful details.
"I think I'm still protecting her. And... when I look back on a lot of things that happen, I feel so dumb and I'm embarrassed." – Michael (42:13)
- Michael reflects on whether he's been protecting his ex, himself, or both by not discussing painful details.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
All-or-Nothing ADHD Logic:
"If I wanted to go to the gym today, yeah. I couldn't because today's Tuesday... It's a weird permission thing for me." – Louie (03:16)
-
Executive Dysfunction Up Close:
"I suffer. I get in freeze mode... I get caught up in that executive dysfunction." – Louie (04:29)
-
Guilt and Self-Worth:
"My value is almost solely based on my productivity." – Louie (23:02)
"My therapist described it as... mom guilt." – Louie (20:26) -
Therapy as Process, Not Cure:
"It's about setting expectations... Just get yourself there." – Louie (26:43)
-
EMDR Breakthrough:
"As soon as we start emdr, I feel nothing. Just numb, zero emotions." – Michael (31:56)
"I have spent so, so many moments in the last few years of my life trying to escape my anxiety. And today... trying to hold onto it..." – Michael (35:44)
"I think it's time I talk about this on the podcast." – Michael (39:56)
"If you're ready to let go of that... I think we might have somehow made a big step." – Therapist, paraphrased by Michael (40:12)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- All-or-Nothing Routines & ADHD: 03:16–07:25
- Guilt, Boundaries & Productivity: 17:05–24:04
- Social Detachment & Excitement: 12:13–16:17
- Hiking, Burnout, and Small Wins: 26:02–27:34
- Burnout and Being 'In a Funk': 27:22–27:44
- Michael's EMDR Session & Emotional Numbness: 28:06–36:34
- Readiness to Share Trauma Story: 39:56–41:17
- Exploring Shame & Protectiveness: 42:13–44:55
Episode Tone
- Candid and humorous: Self-deprecating jokes about their struggles keep the conversation light, despite heavy subject matter.
- Vulnerable and real: Both hosts discuss therapy breakthroughs, setbacks, and daily battles with honesty and compassion.
For anyone struggling with executive dysfunction, guilt, or the aftermath of trauma, this episode offers open, relatable conversation and genuinely valuable therapy insights—plus the reassurance that the process of growth is, indeed, "so damn hard."