Can You Flirt by Accident? | #141

Summary

Secondhand Therapy | Can You Flirt by Accident? | Episode #141

Host: PonyBear Studios
Date: August 10, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Louie and Michael tackle the blurry boundaries of flirting versus friendliness through the lens of a real-life coffee shop encounter. The discussion unfolds into deeper themes: intent versus perception in social interaction, double standards in relationships, emotional safety, and the complex calculus of when to stay or go in love. This is classic Secondhand Therapy: irreverent, vulnerable, and steeped in self-awareness, sprinkled with memorable moments and the duo’s signature banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Accidental Flirtation Story

[08:46 – 12:30]

• Louie shares a recent habit: going to a local coffee shop with his “dumb phone,” sketching while listening to audiobooks (currently, No Country for Old Men).
• A woman at the coffee shop compliments his art, wondering if he’s a tattoo artist. Louie politely declines, but ends up giving her the sketch, inscribed “thank you for the compliment of thinking I tattoo. That was nice. Listen to Secondhand Therapy,” before leaving.
• At home, his girlfriend says he was “flirting”—even unintentionally.

Notable Quote:

“She says I’m flirting… Is that flirting?”
—Louie [12:42]

Michael’s take: “Absolutely not.” [12:45]
Both hosts debate: is giving art to a stranger a come-on, or just friendly engagement?

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2. Intent vs. Perception in Social Interactions

[13:03 – 18:38]

• Louie insists he acted out of friendliness and used it as a subtle podcast plug, not a romantic gesture.
• Louie’s girlfriend points out that including the show info gives the woman a way to connect, which could be read as flirty.
• Michael argues it’s more like “an advertisement than an invitation” [14:14].
• They reverse scenarios: would Louie think it was flirting if his girlfriend did the same? Louie admits to a double standard, tied to concerns around women’s safety.
• Conversation explores how intent can clash with the way actions are received, especially across gender lines.

Notable Quote:

“My understanding of my intent and... probably a refusal to accept—this happens with our communication all the time. I know what my intent is, and people take it a different way.”
—Louie [17:35]

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3. Double Standards & Relationship Safety

[14:49 – 16:13]

• Louie admits he’d be less comfortable if his girlfriend handed a drawing to a man, citing the realities of male attention and female safety.
• Michael presses him to separate emotional fidelity from physical safety, suggesting that jealousy or intimacy issues can exist regardless of gender.
• Louie emphasizes how real risks for women shape his double standards.

Notable Quote:

“It’s a double standard. It’s unfortunate. It’s a bummer.”
—Louie [15:45]

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4. When Is It Time to Leave a Relationship?

[22:06 – 36:13]

• The hosts pivot to questions of relationship longevity: How do you know when to walk away?
• Michael shares wisdom relayed from a friend’s father: “He’s fallen in love with his wife seven times, and twice he didn’t.”
• They explore how relationships require ongoing adaptation to the ways both partners inevitably change.

Notable Quote:

“In a relationship, both of you are changing, evolving all the time… and there’s this new person every few years, and you just have to find a way to connect and love this person who’s there with you in that moment.”
—Michael [28:54]

• Louie chimes in with practical advice: try to fix the issues before leaving, to avoid regrets.
• Michael adds: “There comes a point where you’re like, if nothing changes, if everything stays the same as it is right now, am I happy? And if the answer is no, well, then it’s time.” [33:18]

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5. Emotional Barriers to Love & Relationship Structure

[36:13 – 41:00]

• Michael discusses his struggle with re-opening himself to love, differentiating being an “open book” from actually being open to relationship commitment.
• He voices concern about the “restrictiveness” of relationships—the expectation of constant communication and the perceived loss of freedom.

Notable Exchange:

Michael: “There are often days I like to, believe it or not, isolate… sometimes I just wanted a day of nothing where I don’t have to belong to anybody.” [38:35]
Louie: “I think you like isolated days. But you also resent when people don't care to check on you… so, no, I don't buy it.” [40:05]

---

6. Unlearning Old Stories—Book Talk: How to Hold a Cockroach

[41:38 – 51:51]

• Michael reviews the book How to Hold a Cockroach, about approaching discomfort and inherited beliefs with curiosity and gentle skepticism.
• Themes include deprogramming negative self-talk and seeing the world—and oneself—with new, less judgmental eyes.

Notable Quotes from the Book (read by Michael):

“Maybe there isn’t a way things should have been…there is just the way things are.” [49:12]
“Maybe feelings aren’t meant to be felt, he thought, and there’s nothing wrong with us for feeling them.” [50:42]
“Maybe life means whatever we think it does, he thought. Or maybe it means nothing at all.” [51:01]

Host Reflection:

“Just reinforcing that idea…unprogramming, unlearning, how hard it is, and just nice to hear that other people are experiencing that.”
—Michael [51:30]

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7. On Consistency, Change, and Showing Up

[52:18 – 53:53]

• Louie asks how Michael overcame rigid thinking about gym schedules; Michael says it’s just about showing up, and that getting there is the biggest hurdle.

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Memorable Moments & Humor

• The “dumb phone” admission: Contemplating life with minimalist tech, evoking a “lost at iHop” childhood nostalgia. [09:09]
• VasectomyFarms.com ad-break snap: An earnest plug for “merch” and reproductive rights shirts.
• Podcast plug on art: Giving a sketch—complete with a show promo—to a stranger as guerrilla marketing/flirting.
• Friendly Roast: Louie ribbing Michael over his avoidance patterns and “pamphlet-sized” book.

---

Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Discussion | |---------------|------------------------------------------------| | 08:46 | Coffee shop art, compliment, and “flirting” | | 13:03 | Intent vs. perception and double standards | | 15:01 | Louie’s self-admitted double-standard | | 22:06 | When to leave a relationship | | 28:54 | “Falling in love seven times, twice he didn’t” | | 33:18 | The “if nothing changes, am I happy?” test | | 36:13 | Openness to love, isolation vs. connection | | 41:38 | How to Hold a Cockroach book review | | 49:12 | Notable quote readings from the book | | 52:18 | Consistency and motivation in personal growth |

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

• Candid, humorous, and conversational: The hosts blend serious introspection with playful teasing.
• Key insight: Social cues and intent don’t always match, and context heavily colors perception—especially in relationships.
• Relationship wisdom: Love evolves, and so must partners—or risk being “left behind.”
• Growth isn’t linear: Both hosts underline how changing habits and unlearning narratives is hard, ongoing work.

---

Notable Quotes

• “I know what my intent is, and people take it a different way.” —Louie [17:35]
• “It’s a double standard. It’s unfortunate. It’s a bummer.” —Louie [15:45]
• “There is this new person every few years, and you just have to find a way to connect and love this person who’s there with you in that moment.” —Michael [28:54]
• “There comes a point where you’re like, if nothing changes, if everything stays the same as it is right now, am I happy?” —Michael [33:18]
• “Maybe there isn’t a way things should have been…there is just the way things are.” —From How to Hold a Cockroach, read by Michael [49:12]

---

Summary:
Episode #141 of Secondhand Therapy delivers a funny, heartfelt exploration of boundaries, perception, and emotional growth. With real-life anecdotes and genuine vulnerability, Louie and Michael examine how even simple acts can be misconstrued, why love is an ongoing process, and how untangling our old stories is never-ending but always worthwhile.

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For ad-free episodes and more banter: [Patreon link as shared in the show].

Transcript

[Announcer]

Las Vegas was built for stars. And on August 22, two of boxing's biggest take center stage. Raleigh Romero never follows the script.

[Joe]

This is my game.

[Announcer]

Teofimo Lopez has never needed one.

[Joe]

This guy's got a big mouth.

[Announcer]

For years, they've had plenty to say.

[Nick]

All you do is talk.

[Announcer]

But with world championship gold on the line, can they back it?

[Joe]

Tio, I'm here.

[Announcer]

I'm going all in. It's time to put up or shut up. Raleigh Romero vs. Teofimo Lopez, August 22. I'll shut you up. Watch on Dazn and Dazn on Prime Video.

[Nick]

Secondhand therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod welcome back to Second hand Therapy. Want to remind you that we are not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy, and this is not professional advice in any way.

[Joe]

That's true. I just sneezed before that.

[Nick]

That's true. Very two very loud sneezes.

[Joe]

Got them out and got the demons out.

[Nick]

Yeah, we. We have something on Patreon, but you wouldn't know that because you're not over there. And you would know that if you were over there. With ad free episodes you get after the pod episodes, you get bone. You get a whole nother podcast over. That's all over on Patreon waiting for you.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's true.

[Nick]

What's your beef? You got beef?

[Joe]

I just don't like you, but no.

[Nick]

All right, well, there's no beef. Fair enough.

[Joe]

I detest you. I don't know if I call that beef.

[Nick]

Who are you? Me? Welcome to the show

[Joe]

in the mirror. I loathe you.

[Nick]

My therapist. Like, who does your inner voice sound like? I don't know, but he sits across from me every week.

[Joe]

If it's me, you would be so much further along. Oh, my God. Cooking chicken. Lifting weights.

[Nick]

Yeah. Doing my taxes.

[Joe]

I was gonna keep going, but I was like, why?

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Why?

[Announcer]

Why do that?

[Nick]

Why beat a man while he's down?

[Joe]

You said you were in a great mood.

[Nick]

How are you? I've been in a great mood. I'm happy. This is me happy. Can you tell?

[Joe]

I don't care.

[Nick]

Ad free episodes over on Patreon. That's true. You can also get merch discounts. We got merch. You can go discover, browse second hand

[Joe]

thera.com find

[Nick]

what we got.

[Joe]

Find. What the are you talking about?

[Nick]

Discover, browse, find, locate. Tons of merch. There.

[Joe]

You ran out of words after

[Nick]

yeah.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Nick]

Okay, you got me. Yeah.

[Joe]

He's a writer. He has a book available.

[Nick]

I do have a book available.

[Joe]

Eight words long. And then he ran out.

[Nick]

You can also head on over to vasectomyfarms.com if you give a. About women at all. And you can get some.

[Joe]

Personally, I got a shirt. Me personally. Me personally got a hat. Me personally have paid for an abortion. What? A portion of those proceeds actually didn't she had insurance. Goes towards Shout out to California.

[Nick]

All right.

[Joe]

What?

[Nick]

Go to vasectomyfarms.com.

[Joe]

you should.

[Nick]

You should do that. Oh, you can contact us. You can contact us.

[Joe]

We have Telegram for all the international people that have said, you know, sometimes an email's too much. I'd love to be able to send a text. We're on Telegram now. So the same number, type it into Telegram. You can send us a message, a voice note. I don't know.

[Nick]

Yeah, probably.

[Joe]

Whatever on Telegram cost you nothing. International people or Americans.

[Nick]

Yeah, we're on Telegram. Yeah.

[Joe]

Secondhand therapy or the phone number, whatever.

[Nick]

You can also send us physical mail if you want. All that stuff is listed below or on the screen right now if you're watching this. Yeah, I think that's it.

[Joe]

Whatever, dude.

[Nick]

I don't know, man.

[Joe]

I really miss doing the. Like. That's true stories about you.

[Nick]

That's for the shit show.

[Joe]

You're not gonna tell them what you're up to.

[Nick]

Which it can only be available on Patreon. We'll see you over there.

[Joe]

You're not gonna tell them?

[Nick]

I'll tell them on Patreon. Okay.

[Joe]

You're okay.

[Nick]

Enjoy the show. Okay. Play the music. Please, God, play the music.

[Joe]

If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Nick]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Joe]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Nick]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Joe]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychic source.com sht10. Okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Nick]

Okay, all right.

[Joe]

Talk about my love life.

[Nick]

Trying to see some Some.

[Joe]

Maybe some road bumps just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Joe]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Nick]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[Joe]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Nick]

I want the tea. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Joe]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Nick]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Nick]

It's not a good fit, and that happens. Finding good therapist is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Joe]

And you're married now.

[Nick]

Never. Never.

[Joe]

You're in love now.

[Nick]

I have to talk about this. My therapist.

[Joe]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Nick]

Absolutely not.

[Joe]

Let's do one together.

[Nick]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Joe]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Nick]

I know you will.

[Joe]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.

[Announcer]

Las Vegas was built for stars, and on August 22, two of boxing's biggest takes center stage. Raleigh Romero never follows the Script.

[Joe]

This is my game.

[Announcer]

Teofimo Lopez has never needed one.

[Joe]

This guy's got a big mouth.

[Announcer]

For years, they've had plenty to say.

[Nick]

All you do is talk.

[Announcer]

But with world championship gold on the line, can they back it?

[Joe]

Tio, I'm here.

[Announcer]

I'm going all in. It's time to put up or shut up. Raleigh Romero vs. Teofimo Lopez, August 22. I'll shut you up. Watch on Dazn and Dazn on Prime Video.

[Joe]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[Nick]

And welcome back. Back secondhand therapy.

[Joe]

And we know that I have started a new activity.

[Nick]

Okay?

[Joe]

And here's the thing. I was under the impression. Harmless, chilling, right?

[Nick]

Mm.

[Joe]

Here's what's going on.

[Nick]

Okay?

[Joe]

So now when I go to the coffee shop, I like to go to the coffee shop and get a coffee. Here's what I'm doing. Work phone stays at home. Dumb phone comes with me. And I got here, let me tell you the apps that are on my phone, okay? Okay. Phone calls, text messages, FaceTime, the music one. But no streaming. So it's just my ipod, essentially.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

Google Maps, the calculator, the calendar, the clock, weather, and Libby. So I got my library app.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

So I go to the coffee shop. I listen to a book. Right now I'm doing fiction. One of my favorite films of all time. I thought, let me check out this book. So I put in a hold for the regular book and the audiobook. The audiobook came first. So I'm listening to no country for Old Men.

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Mm.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

And whilst I listen at the coffee shop, it's very community driven, community organized. Right? There's a little table in the back room that has sketch pads and paint pens and all this. And I just draw like a child at ihop waiting for their pancakes. Here's the thing. I'm talented as shit, dude. You know?

[Nick]

Huh.

[Joe]

I picked up painting as a hobby, and I just, like, I'm. And unintentionally creating masterpieces.

[Nick]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Joe]

So now painting's a little big of a commitment right now. Haven't been in the. Haven't been in the mood to paint because also, daddy likes a big canvas.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Four feet by six feet. So this is my painting. Go open a little sketchbook, use their markers, make a thing. Anybody who sees it tells me how cool it is. Leave me be. That's not true. I say thank you. It really honestly doesn't bother me. Today I was at the table. I had just drawn my attempt at a human head. Okay.

[Nick]

Okay. First time.

[Joe]

I mean, no My stuff has heads in it, but it's a little abstract. I'm not very good. Masterpiece. Girl walks by, stops, are you a tattoo artist? I go, nope, just have a tattoo problem. She says, oh, okay. She walks by a little bit later, stops and looks, my God, that's so cool. Thank you. Every time I get up to get new colors, I see her, like, arching, looking at my drawing. I finish it on the back. I write, thank you for the compliment of thinking. I tattoo. That was nice. Listen to secondhand therapy. And I hand it to her, and I left.

[Nick]

Mm.

[Joe]

She said, oh, my God. Thank you. I said, have a good day. I come home, I'm telling my girl about my day. She says, I'm flirting.

[Nick]

Really?

[Joe]

Is that flirting?

[Nick]

Absolutely not.

[Joe]

Thank you. She said unintentionally. She's like, I don't think you understand. And I was like, I don't.

[Announcer]

No.

[Nick]

That's the. There was no other engagement other than thank you. And then, like, yeah, she's staring at the paint, so here.

[Joe]

You're not gonna keep it?

[Nick]

So, yeah.

[Joe]

Her point is how she received it. I was actually just gonna finish the sentence.

[Nick]

I know, but I like to guess,

[Joe]

and I love that.

[Nick]

I know you do. You couldn't help, but it came right, and she pulled out.

[Joe]

Hey, I know. Her point, huh? Well, you could have just done nothing.

[Nick]

I said, huh.

[Joe]

And her point. Pause for training. He's getting it.

[Nick]

God, I hate this.

[Joe]

Her point is one. Yes. How it could have been. But I don't think that's a good point. It's a point. It's fine. She goes, what? It's a point. I don't think it's overly valid. Okay, here's where I think she has a little bit more of a point. Writing. Listen to secondhand therapy is a way that this woman can now find who I am. That kind of thing. She's like.

[Nick]

So.

[Joe]

She's like. She might think, oh, he's giving me a way to contact him without giving, like, something like that, which I kind of get.

[Nick]

I thought that fought in the other way of being, like, this is an advertisement. This isn't flirting. This is an advertisement. I thought, yeah. Wow. Interesting.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay, so if the tables are reversed, are you thinking it's flirting?

[Joe]

I'm bending her over. The. What's the question?

[Nick]

If your girl comes home from work and she tells you similar story, are

[Joe]

you like, did she give someone a drawing or did a guy give her a drawing?

[Nick]

She. Same scenario. She. She gives somebody a drawing.

[Joe]

A man.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

She knows better

[Nick]

so it's okay for you, but not okay for her?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

What?

[Joe]

Hey, man, I do believe that.

[Nick]

Are you serious?

[Joe]

And it's not that. It's. It's okay for me but not okay for her. It is. I think it's the dynamic of safety. Me giving this person a drawing puts me in no danger, puts no target, Nothing like that. But her being a female with a fat ass, you like engaging with a guy you don't know. Like, men are creepy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

A dude will go back to the coffee shop every day hoping to see you. Like, I don't know.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

It's a double standard. It's unfortunate. It's a bummer.

[Nick]

Take that part away from it. Take the outside away from it and just reality. No, no, no. Think about what she's talking about. She's not worried about your safety. She's worried about the safety in the relationship. So keep it between you two.

[Joe]

But no, because it's not. That's not how women exist in the world. Women are targets in the world. I'm not.

[Nick]

I'm aware.

[Joe]

So I can't remove that. That is part of. That is, for lack of a better word, that is a consequence that could happen from her just handing a drawing to somebody. That's real.

[Nick]

I know that.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

There's no other way to look at it. You can't look at the emotional connection of it because.

[Joe]

Well, no, because that doesn't happen in a vacuum. If it happened in a vacuum. Okay. But that's not a real thing.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

It's not.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

Where are you getting stuck?

[Nick]

I can't understand how you can't look at it from the emotional sense of it.

[Joe]

What emotional sense?

[Nick]

The jealousy sense, the intimacy of it, the. All of that. The trust.

[Joe]

No, because also, I don't think there was, like, a trust thing. I don't think there was a jealousy problem. So they were just like, you. You know, sometimes you flirt and you don't realize you're flirting. I was like, I don't think so.

[Nick]

And that's not a trust thing.

[Joe]

No.

[Nick]

What do you think that. Where do you think that stems from?

[Joe]

My. My understanding of my intent and

[Nick]

a.

[Joe]

I don't know, probably a refusal to accept. I mean, this happens with our communication all the time.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I know what my intent is, and people take it a different way. So I think she's just being like, hey, I don't think you realize, but. And I'm like, nah.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. I don't think she thinks that there was any type of intent. I don't think had that woman taken it differently and, like, tried to ins.

[Announcer]

True.

[Joe]

Initiate a conversation or like, that I would engage back. I don't think she has any worry about that. I think it was an observation of behavior. Difference in a difference of operation in the world.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's how I received it.

[Nick]

Yep.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

Didn't feel contentious or anything.

[Nick]

Yeah. And you don't. Do you think that's valid, what she was bringing up?

[Joe]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. Like I said, it didn't feel like. Like a correction or an argument or anything like that. It was like. For me, it just read as an observation.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So, yeah, let's talk about it. People are crazy.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. This lady might. Lady. This young woman might take this drawing, throw it in the trash and go, what the fuck am I supposed to do with this?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

For all I know, for her. For her, she had an interaction with a crazy person, you know?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So I don't know.

[Nick]

Was the conversation about changing your behavior in the future?

[Joe]

No.

[Nick]

Have you considered changing your behavior in the future based on that?

[Joe]

Like giving someone a drawing?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

No.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

Because for me, it wouldn't matter if it was a woman. A man, an old woman, an old man, a gay man. Like, I don't care.

[Nick]

Right? There you go. Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't think I told you this at the coffee shop. You know who I'm talking about? The guy in the knitting group. He gave me some socks.

[Nick]

He peopled your move.

[Joe]

I didn't compliment his socks, but he gave me two. Two packs of socks. He's like, I'm purging. Do you ever wear high, like, tube socks? I was like, I do. Oops. There you go. Polos. Very nice socks.

[Nick]

Nice.

[Joe]

Nobody said he was flirting with me. He might have been. He could get it. Ariel could get it.

[Nick]

It's very nice. Okay.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So I don't care, dude. I don't. Whatever.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If she asked me, like, hey, would you not give drawings to women? One, I would be shocked if you asked me that. Two.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Joe]

What the fuck do I care?

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's the first time I've ever given anybody a drawing. Usually I just leave them in the book.

[Nick]

So.

[Joe]

But, yeah, I don't think she would do that.

[Nick]

Interesting.

[Joe]

Why interesting?

[Nick]

I'm thinking back to the part where she thought. I mean, I get where she's coming from with the, like, this is a way to contact you. But for me, yeah, it did the opposite. It made it more. It made it less personal.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Yeah. But for sure. Yeah.

[Joe]

So that's just the dream scenario. She goes, what the is second hand therapy? Looks it up. She goes, oh, what a great podcast. Tells all of her friends, right? Dude, this guy gave me a drawing, right?

[Nick]

Tags it or something. Hey, yeah, this was cool.

[Joe]

Yeah. Worst case scenario, she goes, this guy raped me and then gave me a drawing. Because the Internet's a crazy place.

[Nick]

The Internet is a crazy place.

[Joe]

All right? There was a lot of witnesses. When I handed her that drawing, I made sure very careful. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick]

Damn.

[Joe]

Have another relationship question.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

In a relationship, how do you know when it's time to walk away? And this is not about my relationship.

[Nick]

You're asking the right and the wrong guy.

[Joe]

Yeah,

[Nick]

I don't really know.

[Joe]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you know how. I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class. Doing it.

[Nick]

Okay. Are you really?

[Joe]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University.

[Nick]

Some classes, bro. Oh, you fancy now, bruh.

[Joe]

I'm out here.

[Nick]

He's a schoolboy.

[Joe]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[Nick]

I mean, I love to learn.

[Joe]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[Nick]

I need to do it more.

[Joe]

Officially, you never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out Snhu and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career. Do whatever you need.

[Nick]

Go back to school.

[Joe]

Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Nick]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Joe]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Nick]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Joe]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com/sht. 10. Okay, you're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. 0 minutes for 19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Nick]

Okay. All right.

[Joe]

Talk about my love life.

[Nick]

Trying to see some.

[Announcer]

Some.

[Nick]

Maybe some road bumps.

[Joe]

Just seeing if it's gonna be clear. Is not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're going to do a medium.

[Nick]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Joe]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us. Cause I want to hear how it went.

[Nick]

Oh, I can't. Please, please DM us.

[Joe]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Nick]

I want the tea. I wrote a book, which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries, and it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's more about moments, like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date or, you know, that silence after someone says, I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the [e-mail] so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun [e-mail] it's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out.

[Joe]

Velvettigerbooks.com Las Vegas was built for stars.

[Announcer]

And on August 22, two of boxing's biggest take center stage. Raleigh Romero never follows the script.

[Joe]

This is my game.

[Announcer]

Teofimo Lopez has never needed one.

[Joe]

This guy's got a big mouth.

[Announcer]

For years, they've had plenty to say.

[Nick]

All you do is talk.

[Announcer]

But with world championship gold on the line, can they back it?

[Joe]

Teo, I'm here.

[Announcer]

I'm Going all in. It's time to put up or shut up. Raleigh Romero vs. Teofimo Lopez, August 22. I'll shut you up. Watch on Dazn and Dazn on Prime Video.

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

On Reddit, true crime doesn't come from journalists. It comes from the victims, the witnesses, and sometimes the suspects themselves. Every Tuesday on Crimes of Reddit, we read these posts out loud. I'm Sabrina Dianarroga. And I'm Alexis Linkletter. One of us brings the story, the other goes in blind, reacting in real time, just like you. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow Crimes of Reddit, available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe]

Do you know how much effort and time and energy you have to put into trying to reconnect or fix what the problem is?

[Nick]

Mm.

[Joe]

And if so, like, I know it's not a tangible, probably quantifiable thing. Qualifiable. Quantifiable. Who knows? Qualifiable. I'm too stupid to, like, label it.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

But.

[Joe]

Yeah, how do you know when you're like, oh, this we're just don't work anymore. This isn't what I want anymore.

[Nick]

Yeah. I don't know. I've been talking a lot about relationships and love with a buddy of ours. I won't say who, but he had shared something that his father told him that I've been thinking about a lot, which is, he said his father, they've been married 63 years.

[Joe]

It's too long.

[Nick]

And that's too long. That's too long. And he said he has fallen in love with her seven different times and twice he didn't. And I thought that was beautiful. Because in a relationship, both of you are changing, evolving all the time. And there's this new person every few years, and you just have to find a way to connect and love this person who's there with you in that moment. And I think oftentimes we don't. The people change, and one of them doesn't get used to the other one or learn how to love the other one, and then they get left behind.

[Joe]

Why? Left behind?

[Nick]

Yeah, you get left.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Nick]

That's what. That's.

[Joe]

Hold on. I think abandonment has entered the talk here.

[Nick]

Well, that's what divorce and breakups are. Right? Like, you are not adapting to this person who is, I know, in front of you.

[Joe]

I think those things can be amicable.

[Nick]

Sure.

[Joe]

I don't think that means you're getting left or discarded or anything like that.

[Nick]

Sure. I think the percentage of amicable breakups, though, are smaller Than

[Joe]

maybe.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't know. I would think, like long term marriages, I would think they're probably a higher percentage of amicable, but I don't know. People cheat and do stupid. So. Fell in love with her seven times and twice I didn't.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So the two times you just holding on to the faith of like, she's gonna be a new person in a

[Nick]

couple years and yeah, we'll get through this. And I think your question is how long is that period of we'll get through this?

[Joe]

Or what happens when you didn't fall in love with her and then the person you're in, she didn't fall in love with either? Do you both have that faith? And then do you try? If the one's like, this clearly isn't working, you're like, we need to. How hard do you. I don't fucking know, man. Yeah, that's a rough one.

[Nick]

Where is this stemming from?

[Joe]

I know some people. I know some people.

[Nick]

A lot of people going through it right now.

[Joe]

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm just. That's what they're going through. Yeah. They're like, do I really, like put in the effort and the time and try to fix this or do I face that it might be the truth that we don't work anymore? Yeah, well, you should probably try first. That way you don't regret it.

[Nick]

I think, you know, I think, you know, when, you know,

[Joe]

where was that answer A few minutes ago?

[Nick]

You know, I've been thinking about it and I think, I think there. I think you. There. You definitely feel it.

[Joe]

What does it feel like?

[Nick]

Exhaustion.

[Joe]

What's. How long have you stayed with someone after you felt it?

[Nick]

Years.

[Joe]

What are those years like?

[Nick]

Just trying. Just trying, you know, and you're showing up and you're hoping that they show up. Or maybe it does work for a little bit. I think that's what it more so is. It works for a little while and then it doesn't. And then it works for a little while and it doesn't. So it's not just like a long period of time of it not working. I think there's like stints. And then you just have to realize, like, is this. I think there comes a point where you're like, if nothing changes, if everything stays the same as it is right now, am I happy? And if the answer is no, well, then it's time.

[Joe]

Why?

[Nick]

Because that's your. When you're in those long hauls or those stints, like where it's not working and you're Miserable, then what if something changes? That's what I'm saying. If nothing changes right now and it's just this, at our lowest point, am I happy? Yeah, You got to be happy with your person at those low points.

[Joe]

Happy.

[Nick]

Yeah. Still happy to be there, still engaged. Still. Still feeling like. Still feeling like this sucks, but we're okay. That's different than.

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

I think.

[Nick]

I think that's. Yeah. I think that's what I mean by semi happy when, like. Yeah.

[Joe]

So you. Do you operate under the strength of the relationship? You judge it by the low points?

[Nick]

I don't know if I would say that, but I'd say with your deciding whether to stay or not in the relationship. Yeah, I would. I would. I would say that would be a good barometer.

[Joe]

With that barometer, do you have any regret leaving?

[Nick]

No. No. I think. Oh, for me, at least. What happens is after a breakup, you always kind of put the person on a pedestal. You always remember the good times more than the bad times. I feel like. Because you're lonely and you're going through it and you're, you know, whatever. And it's like, she was great. Yeah. What about you? Is that not a good barometer?

[Joe]

No, I think that is a good barometer. That makes a lot of sense because.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joe]

The low times are the ones you have to get through. Yeah. Oh, do I regret. No.

[Nick]

No.

[Joe]

Somebody would have left sooner.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

We were talking about love today. I'm not going to share a lot. Yeah. But what we were talking about is my hesitation opened up for me to open myself back up to love and, like, what is. What is stopping it?

[Joe]

That's. That's a hard one for me to understand because you often talk about how you're an open, but you're an oversharer.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Especially in dating and relationships and things like that. And with the couple of casual things you've talked about that you've done, you've talked about on here, it seems like that's still a thing, that you're pretty open book.

[Nick]

Yeah. That's different than being open to

[Announcer]

love.

[Joe]

How so?

[Nick]

Open love is more like willing to be in a relationship again. Okay. Not open to sharing or connecting with someone. That's different.

[Joe]

Aside from they could leave you, what's the difference?

[Nick]

I am still letting the restrictiveness of relationships get in the way of thinking that I could be happy in something like that.

[Joe]

The restrictiveness being monogamy?

[Nick]

Yeah. Or whatever that is. Yeah. I don't know. Not only that, but just not only the monogamy. Part but just like again, this idea of belonging to someone, you know, the check ins, the this, the that, the. The stuff that goes along, the. I don't know, the, the paperwork of a relationship, for lack of a better term, the day to day, you know, like. I don't know.

[Joe]

Do you enjoy those like little check ins when it's just dating?

[Nick]

Sometimes I like the freedom of. Not responding if I don't want to. There are often days that I like to, believe it or not, I like to isolate. Sometimes. Yeah, it was not even like a hoe thing. It's not like I just need to go off grid for a few days and do my thing. It's like. No, I just wanted like a day of nothing where I don't have to belong to anybody, where I don't have to check my email, where I don't have to get on my phone. I can just be and just. That's it. Like I like those days sometimes and I feel like in relationships you don't get a lot of those days. You get almost no days like that. And I know that comes with communication and all that stuff, but. Yeah, again, so logically, yeah, I know that. But emotionally it's still, still like a barrier there. Like. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. What?

[Joe]

I don't believe it.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

You're lying to both of us.

[Nick]

Okay.

[Joe]

I just don't believe that to be true.

[Nick]

If you don't think I like isolated days.

[Joe]

I think you like isolated days. But you also resent when people don't care to check on you or check on you because then you feel like a burden. So. No, I don't buy it. I think.

[Nick]

I don't know.

[Joe]

Yeah, I mean this is. You always have the thing you want and then someone does it and that's not what you want. And like you can't win. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just. You're just being avoidant to shit.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Also never seen you put your phone away for a day, you know? Yeah. The whole argument for the life one was my emails and my bro, come on, you don't need that.

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah. Read a book. Wrote or read, read, read, read a book.

[Joe]

Yeah. Well, I'm looking at it and I gotta tell you, it's. It's a pamphlet.

[Nick]

It's as big as the Bible. It's so thick.

[Joe]

It's a pamphlet.

[Nick]

It's. Let me see how many pages this is. How many did I get through? I'll see if the 95.

[Joe]

Well, usually the pages with pictures don't have numbers, so.

[Nick]

Well, then 90 pages.

[Joe]

Okay, tell us about your book.

[Nick]

I've been talking about it on here for a couple. Couple weeks now.

[Joe]

I think shit show, but.

[Nick]

Yeah. Was it shit show? Okay, well, if you're on Patreon, I've been talking about this for a couple of weeks now.

[Joe]

He read, I think, the title page.

[Nick]

This is not important.

[Joe]

You read the title page, like, three weeks ago.

[Nick]

I read the first three chapters.

[Joe]

Hold on a second. So you read the title page three weeks? I remember it vividly. You read the title page three weeks ago, and then you're like, ah, this book is incredible. I can't decide if it's a children's book. And then you gave it away.

[Nick]

I did.

[Joe]

And then you ordered a new one, and now you claim you've read it this time.

[Nick]

I've read all of it. All right, tell us about it now. I read the first three chapters when I talked about it before. You can't.

[Joe]

I'd like to be clear. There's no proof of that.

[Nick]

This. This is also not sponsored. I don't know this guy, but it's called how to Hold a Cockroach. A book for those who are free and don't know it.

[Joe]

Who are free and don't know it.

[Nick]

Okay, let me tell you something. I still don't know if it's a children's book or not.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Nick]

Pretty short it is for people like me.

[Joe]

It is a children's book, so I

[Nick]

think it is a children's book.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

But it's all about. May I? Yeah.

[Joe]

Least athletic.

[Nick]

It got caught.

[Joe]

Jesus.

[Nick]

So the first chapter is about this little boy who sees a cockroach. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about Better Help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Joe]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Nick]

I'm using Better Help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Nick]

Not a good fit. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Joe]

And you're married now.

[Nick]

Never. Never.

[Joe]

You're in love now.

[Nick]

I have to talk about this. My therapist.

[Joe]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't Even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Nick]

Absolutely not.

[Joe]

Let's do one together.

[Nick]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Joe]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Nick]

I know you will.

[Joe]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[Announcer]

Las Vegas was built for stars. And on August 22, two of boxing's biggest take center stage. Raleigh Romero never follows the script.

[Joe]

This is my game.

[Announcer]

Teofimo Lopez has never needed one.

[Joe]

This guy's got a big mouth.

[Announcer]

For years, they've had plenty to say.

[Nick]

All you do is talk.

[Announcer]

But with world championship gold on the line, can they back it?

[Joe]

Tio, I'm here.

[Announcer]

I'm going all in. It's time to put up or shut up. Riley Romero vs. Teofimo Lopez, August 22. I'll shut you up. Watch on Dazn and Daz on Prime Video.

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Hey, it's Jen Hatmaker. Here's what I've learned in midlife. Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what this new series on for the Love is. Is all about. The sacred. Yes. It's choosing delight, rest, and pleasure on purpose. Because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you fill your table with everybody else. Come find your sacred. Yes. With me. Follow and listen to for the Love wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe]

Pictures on every other page, by the way.

[Nick]

And there's words, a couple. Why are you like this?

[Joe]

It's fun.

[Nick]

Fun for who?

[Joe]

The listeners?

[Nick]

I don't know about that.

[Joe]

Yeah, they might not like it. Catch me giving a. You can't. All right, Sorry.

[Nick]

Go ahead. The first chapter is all about this little boy who finds a cockroach, and he's grossed out by it. And. And then he thinks, well, why do I think that way about this? Cockroach. And then he remembers that his mom is grossed out by it and she talks bad about cockroaches. And then he asks himself, well, what do I even know about them? And becomes curious.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And then he starts looking at cockroaches differently in the way, with curiosity instead of discuss. And he ends up liking cockroaches.

[Joe]

What does he like about them?

[Nick]

I don't know. It doesn't really talk about that. It just talks about how he approaches them.

[Joe]

That's one question. You're already pissed off. Yeah, I don't know.

[Nick]

Like, why would that be the question? What does he like about?

[Joe]

Well, that cockroaches seem like a hard thing to come around to.

[Nick]

He just talks about, like, how other people in other countries, like, some. Some people keep them as pets, some people eat them. Like, maybe, I don't know, everything there is to know about cockroaches. He's approaching it with curiosity in that way.

[Joe]

It's like your mom did with minorities. It's kind of the same. You had to really deprogram.

[Nick]

Why are you like this?

[Joe]

This is an honest podcast.

[Nick]

I'm cutting all of that.

[Announcer]

What?

[Joe]

That you have to leave.

[Nick]

That was good. It was good.

[Joe]

Leave it.

[Nick]

I hate you. Anyways. It is about deprogramming.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And so. And then every other or every chapter after that is just deprogramming all these other things. Like, the boy's looking in the mirror and he doesn't like what he sees. And then the boy thinks about the past and he doesn't like it. And why doesn't he like it? And in the future and like, all these things, all this anxiety that he has and these stories that have been passed down to him. And how do you unprogram them? Unprogram them and approach them with curiosity instead of these narratives that you've already been taught your whole life. Really great.

[Joe]

What'd you learn?

[Nick]

Curiosity.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Nick]

There's just these really great moments in here.

[Joe]

Like, how do you implement it?

[Nick]

Yeah, it's just about changing your thinking. Right. So instead of.

[Joe]

I didn't read it. Don't say, right. I don't fucking know. I didn't read that pamphlet.

[Nick]

It's not a pamphlet. It's a whole book. This is the one that I really like. It's talking about the past. Okay. You know me. I love the past.

[Joe]

You live there.

[Nick]

I love to hate the past. Maybe there isn't a way things should have been. He thought there is just the way things are. What we doing, man?

[Joe]

Okay.

[Nick]

You didn't like that.

[Joe]

That's fine. Didn't find it to be.

[Nick]

What do you mean?

[Joe]

Hey, no, man.

[Nick]

This is why so. I don't like sharing things with you.

[Joe]

You really should. You should listen to our podcast. The amount of times we talked about, like, right decisions versus wrong decisions. First is just a decision. Yeah. You find a cockroach manual. You know what I learned

[Nick]

about good or bad?

[Joe]

It's just B. Yeah.

[Nick]

All right.

[Joe]

Read me another one. Read. You got a cereal box you could read us next?

[Nick]

Jesus Christ. Listen, I. I like that. Also, there. There is an MRI of my brain activity right there. That is. That's in the book.

[Joe]

It's just a bunch of cockroaches with no roaches.

[Nick]

Maybe feelings aren't meant to be felt, he thought, and there's nothing wrong with us for feeling them.

[Joe]

One more time.

[Nick]

Maybe feelings aren't meant to be felt, he thought, and there's nothing wrong with us for feeling them.

[Joe]

I don't get it. They're not meant to be felt, but there's nothing wrong with feeling them. I don't understand that one.

[Nick]

Maybe life means whatever we think it does, he thought. Or maybe it means nothing at all.

[Joe]

Okay. Yeah, I think. I don't think there's any meaning. Yeah, I agree with that one.

[Nick]

Yeah. It's just, again, it's about rewriting these narratives that have been passed down to us and just untangling that kind of stuff. I thought it was really helpful.

[Joe]

What was helpful about it for you?

[Nick]

Just reinforcing that idea that, like. I mean, we talk about it all the time. Just like that. Unprogramming, that unlearning and how hard it is, and just nice to hear that other people are experiencing that and that. It is.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Nick]

It's not just me trying to untangle all this and that. Yeah. A lot of these stories. A lot of these. These stories that I've been told aren't true. And that is. That's hard to untangle.

[Joe]

I've had a question for you. I keep meaning to ask it. Recently, on here, you're talking about, like, the rigidity and, like, the gym is Monday, Wednesday, Friday. But you started going. You went on a Thursday and a Saturday, and I asked you

[Announcer]

how. And you.

[Joe]

You said I changed that thinking.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Easy.

[Nick]

No, how'd you do it? You just do it. You just show up. And that's also what I'm learning, too, is, like, half of the battle is just getting there, because once I go to the gym, I'm there. Once I go somewhere, I'm there, but it is so hard to get there a lot of the times. Yeah, it's just about showing up. And I talk myself out of showing up all the fucking time.

[Joe]

Why?

[Nick]

I don't know. I don't have a good answer for that. Yeah, it's different all the time. Sometimes it's laziness, sometimes it's anxiety. Sometimes it's. Sometimes I'm scared. Sometimes I don't wanna just any little thing.

[Joe]

Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you, bye. And we know that Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.

[Announcer]

Las Vegas was built for stars. And on August 22, two of boxing's biggest take center stage. Raleigh Romero never follows the script. This is Teofimo. Lopez has never needed one.

[Joe]

This guy's got a big mouth.

[Announcer]

For years they've had plenty to say.

[Nick]

All you do is talk.

[Announcer]

But with world championship gold on the line, can they back it?

[Joe]

Teo, I'm here.

[Announcer]

I'm going all in. It's time to put up or shut up. Raleigh Romero vs. Teofimo Lopez, August 22. I'll shut you up. Watch on Dazn and Dazn on Prime Video.

[Podcast Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Hey there. I'm Kendra Adachi and my show, the Lazy Genius podcast helps you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that that don't. And you get to decide what matters. I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm here to give you a new way to see. Episodes of the Lazy Genius podcast are full of compassionate time management tips and permission slips to do what makes sense for you. New episodes drop every Monday. Follow and listen to the Lazy Genius podcast on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.