I'm Stuck, Please Don't Hurt Me | #135

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy

Episode #135: "I'm Stuck, Please Don't Hurt Me"
Hosts: Louie Paoletti (C) & Michael Malone (B)
Date: June 29, 2026

Overview

In this candid and hilarious episode, Louie and Michael dive deep into the sensation of feeling "stuck"—emotionally, physically, and relationally. The duo reflect on how anxiety, grief, codependency, and past losses show up in daily life, especially when routines break or vulnerability creeps in. They unpack their recent therapy sessions and experiences with dating, relationships, and the ongoing grind of personal growth—using humor and brutal honesty to normalize the struggle and celebrate even small progress ("reps"). If you’re exhausted by your own self-sabotage but can laugh at the mess, this episode delivers real talk about why change is so damn hard.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Getting “Stuck” in Anxiety and Grief

[07:48–16:38]

• Louie recounts an emotional day: His dog needed anesthesia, triggering deep anxiety and grief. After drop-off, Louie finds himself “stuck” in his car—unable to drive away, lost in thought, sometimes for 10 or 15 minutes at a time.
  • "I caught myself 10 or 15 minutes later, just in my car in the parking lot, really stuck. And I was like, oh, we're still here, huh?" —Louie [08:55]
• The feeling recurs at the gym, prompting introspection about dissociation versus avoidance.
• Michael shares his own experience with “stuckness” after grief and during panic attacks, recognizing it as a familiar but rare occurrence unless triggered by major upheavals.
  • "There was a while there, anytime I would get in my car behind the wheel, I would just like have to chill for like 10 minutes and be like, we're not gonna die right now. It's okay." —Louie [11:44]

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2. “Reps” — A New Reframing for Self-Compassion

[15:16–18:08]

• Louie introduces the concept of “putting in reps” for mental health—treating every positive behavior (even just showing up) as a repetition that builds resilience over time.
  • "Anytime you do something that you didn't want to, but you know, you should for...your day or whatever...we now just be like, I put in a rep, and it's all about doing reps." —Louie [15:25]
• Michael relates: hoping to “come out of it” by just going home and chilling, knowing from experience that rarely works.
• The hosts emphasize that “reps suck,” growth sucks, but repetition is crucial and it does get easier, however frustrating.
  • "It's so annoying that each rep, it gets easier. It's so stupid." —Louie [17:55]

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3. The Power—and Pitfalls—of Having a “Buddy”

[18:08–19:32]

• Michael notes it seems easier for Louie because his partner can reinforce the “rep” language, even if Louie downplays the impact.
  • "I feel like it's a little easier if you're codependent. Sure...It's a fun thing to have." —Michael [18:20]
• Both hosts joke about self-talk and the sometimes “unhinged” behavior of carrying on full conversations (out loud or internally) to navigate stuck moments.

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4. Codependency, Dating, and the Fear of Vulnerability

[21:27–35:00]

• Michael describes a recent dating situation: hitting it off with someone who felt “incredibly familiar”—but then, when she pulled back, experiencing old codependent patterns: self-blame, anxiety, and spiraling.
  • "I found myself in my old codependency shit about, like, am I coming on too strong? Was this too much? Did I do something wrong?...when really it was just like, she got busy." —Michael [25:37]
• He debates with a friend whether to mention the pullback, ultimately being “super cool” on the outside but “spiraling” internally.
  • "Were you super cool inside?" —Louie
    "No. Outside? Moonwalking. Inside? Spiraling." —Michael [27:38–27:46]
• When Michael finally expresses his truth and ends things, his date responds by questioning if he should've just brought up the shift. He admits that for a week, that's all he thought about.
• The duo discuss how attraction, the risk of hurt, and awareness of one’s own patterns (codependency, avoidance) feed into dating anxiety and avoidance.

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5. Honesty, Dating Apps, and Social Awkwardness

[30:18–33:03]

• Michael recounts a humorously awkward exchange on a dating app where honesty about liking someone’s profile backfires and leads to being unmatched.
  • "Swing and a miss, for sure. Here's what I was gonna do. But I'm not insane, so here it is. Anyway." —Louie [33:44]

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6. Therapy Reflections: Control, Protection, and the Ongoing Work

[48:44–51:08]

• Michael shares insight from a recent therapy session about his need for control as a form of protective self-soothing—a way to manage anxiety and risk of hurt in relationships.
  • "I use control for safety. And it's—I think it protects me." —Michael [49:40]
• He plans to seek out a therapist specializing in “parts work” to address the root causes of these behaviors.
  • "I need to go down and talk to my protectors and be like, hey, man, we're good. Sometimes I get it." —Michael [50:36]

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7. Vulnerability, Avoidance, and Breaking the Cycle

[52:29–56:29]

• The hosts reflect on how both avoidance and codependency trip them up—especially Michael, who often pursues emotionally unavailable people, then uses rejection as "proof" he’s not good enough.
  • "That also sounds like such a you thing to go after an unavailable woman and then when she turns out to be unavailable, you go, I knew I wasn't good enough." —Louie [55:54]
• But Michael recognizes he’s made progress: he didn’t beg for validation or chase. They agree even ending something appropriately is a “rep.”
  • "Good rep, dude." —Louie [56:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being “stuck”:
  "It was like I was offline or something." —Louie [10:36]

• On “the rep” mentality:
  "It's not so much as, hey, at least I went. But, like, I'll put the rep in. So the next day that I get stuck, it's going to be easier." —Louie [15:55]

• On codependency and dating:
  "Am I coming on too strong? Was this too much? Like, did I do something wrong? Like, you know, all those things, when really it was just, like, she got busy." —Michael [25:37]

• When honesty bombs:
  "Swing and a miss, for sure. Here's what I was gonna do. But I'm not insane, so here it is. Anyway." —Louie [33:44]

• On self-sabotage with unavailable partners:
  "You just set yourself up for whatever is going to break your heart." —Louie [56:07]

• On incremental growth:
  "Put in a rep instead of quitting, I guess." —Louie [16:38]
  "But you broke the cycle." —Louie [56:21]

---

Additional Discussion Highlights (with Timestamps)

• [19:32–21:04]
  Lighthearted banter on talking to oneself and the “only child” experience.

• [35:00–47:36]
  Deep dive into attachment styles, traditional vs. polyamorous relationships, and how podcasts can shift personal perspectives.

• [48:44–51:08]
  Michael’s realization that his “check engine light” came on—learning he isn’t as far along in his healing as he hoped.

• [52:29–56:29]
  Unpacking the mechanics of self-fulfilling prophecies in dating and celebrating even small steps as real progress.

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Takeaway Themes

• Progress is measured by "reps," not perfection.
• Vulnerability and self-reflection are ongoing, often uncomfortable, and require both self-compassion and honest feedback from others.
• Both hosts model that admitting stuckness, avoidance, or codependent behaviors isn't failure—it's part of growth.
• Humor and community (even just a buddy or partner) make the grind of healing bearable—and sometimes fun.

---

For Listeners

This episode is perfect for anyone struggling with anxiety, relational patterns, or just feeling “stuck” in their own head. Louie and Michael remind us that healing isn’t linear, that it’s okay to confront old cycles (with jokes, if possible!), and that progress is made one awkward “rep” at a time.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Secondhand therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapy pod hello, my

[C]

little bear cubs, and welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. We need to remind you that we are not therapists, comma, we are not experts, comma, this is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way, period. You're gonna hear some fucking ads.

[B]

You're gonna hear so many ads.

[C]

You're gonna hear ads. So you know, if you're gonna hear the ads, listen to them, because that's what you fucking deserve.

[B]

No, be nice to them.

[C]

Oh, or you could support the show that you're listening to and that you listen to every week for free. You can't support it for free, but you listen to it for free.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[C]

And I made it more clear. And so you can go to patreon.com secondhand therapypod to support the show.

[B]

That'd be great.

[C]

And then you're gonna get ad free episodes. And I'm starting to explain this recently you will get your own RSS feed. It sounds complicated. I thought it was complicated. It's very easy. And that means that the shows will show up wherever you listen to your podcast now, whether that be Apple, Spotify, Amazon, whatever. The only difference, they will not have ads and they will show up Friday morning instead of Monday.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

There's other tiers with another podcast and then we also have merch available secondhand

[B]

therapypod.com a lot of cool merch.

[C]

Vasectomyfarms.com. if you care about women at all, but you're listening to ads, so probably not. Probably don't care about anybody but yourself, Right? Right. Tell me the truth.

[B]

Be honest with us.

[C]

You're selfish. Basic.

[B]

No, please be nice.

[C]

All right, I'm done.

[B]

Well, you can contact us and complain if you want, or just send us a message, whatever you want to do. We have a PO Box available. It is listed below if you're watching this on YouTube. If not, you can look at the details on wherever you're listening to it.

[C]

That's true. And seriously, if you do have a complaint, we take them all. We actually do take them seriously. Feedback is important. So if you have feedback or complaints, email them in and they go into the I don't give a fuck folder. So thanks for being here.

[B]

What? Nothing.

[C]

What?

[B]

Let's start this.

[C]

We take feedback seriously around here.

[B]

We do, we do.

[C]

So what's your problem?

[B]

There's no. There's. I'd have no problem.

[C]

Okay. Play the music then, I guess. Okay, well, I'll say. I'll get the last word on this one.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[C]

Music's gonna start now.

[B]

There it is.

[C]

You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[B]

All right. Okay. Are you really?

[C]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University.

[B]

Some classes. Oh, you fancy now, bruh.

[C]

I'm out here.

[B]

He's a schoolboy.

[C]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu. What about you?

[B]

I mean, I love to learn.

[C]

Ah, God, he's never learned.

[B]

I need to do it more.

[C]

Officially, you never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht. And you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career, do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new Sponsor psychic source.

[B]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[C]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[B]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[C]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talking about my love life.

[B]

Okay, all right.

[C]

Talk about my love life.

[B]

Trying to see some.

[C]

Some.

[B]

Maybe some road bumps.

[C]

Just seeing if it's going to be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're going to do a medium.

[B]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[C]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[B]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please. DM us.

[C]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

Whether you're on the go or at the ballpark, T mobile is built to keep you connected wherever the game takes you. With America's best network, you know your phone is going to work, even in a crowded stadium. For instance, if you lose track of your friends after a long seventh inning stretch, one quick message and a shared location later, you'll find each other without missing the next pitch. And you can upload the video of the game winning hit and share it before you even leave your seat. And on the days you can't make it to the ballpark, streaming the game on the go feels just as electric. No buffering, no interruptions, just every moment as it happens. Find out how baseball hits different with T mobile@t mobile.com MLB fastest based on analysis by Ookla of speed Test intelligence data of national speed score results for the second half of 2025. Best based on analysis by Ooka of the speed test intelligence data for the second half of 2025.

[B]

I want the tea.

[C]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[B]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[C]

And we. I had a very weird day, but I. I think I may have been experiencing something that you often talk about. So here's what's happening.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Had an emotional day on who gives a shit? Whatever day it was.

[A]

Right.

[C]

All right. Taking my doggo into the vet. Had to get anesthesia. She had to get some stuff. Stressing me out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

She's 9, almost 10, so I'm like, well, hope she comes out of the anesthesia, you know? But what I noticed, one, very stressed out, two, very anxious, three, very sad. But what I noticed, I kept getting stuck places. I dropped her off at the vet. Ripped my heart right out of my chest. She looked so scared. Had no idea what was going on.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Got in my car to leave. Caught myself 10 or 15 minutes later, just in my car in the parking lot, really stuck. And I was like, oh, we're still here, huh? And I was like, okay, well, it's time to go to the gym now. So I went to the gym. Noticed myself about 10 minutes in the car at the gym, parking lot too. I was like, what is. What is happening here?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I had a moment at the gym in the parking lot before when I was stuck in my car, and I was like, just go home. What are we doing? Didn't go home. Didn't do it.

[B]

What do those moments look like? What are you doing in the car?

[C]

Dissociating, I think.

[B]

Are you scrolling? Just listening to music?

[C]

Silence, silence, silence. I think. Scrolling here and there. Well, because I got in the car and my girl was working, so I just text her, like, hey, dropped off the dog. I'll have updates throughout the day.

[B]

Whatever.

[C]

I would assume. I started scrolling after that because I have a addictive device in my hand.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I didn't have my light phone that day, so all my comms were on my iPhone. And I gotta tell you, I like having that iPhone back.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Put it in my veins. Yeah. I assumed some scrolling, but I truly. It was like I was offline or something.

[B]

Hmm.

[C]

Yeah. But I was. So I was in the car at the gym, and I was like, ah, just go home. And I was like, no. I was like, the only thing to do today is past time. The only thing we have to do is pick up this dog later, and it's gonna feel like forever if I just go sit at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So essentially I was like, okay, so you're gonna go to the gym, and if you get stuck there, that's fine. And then after the gym, you're gonna go to the next place, and if you get stuck there, also fine. And it worked pretty well.

[B]

Not gonna lie to you, you had the permission helped.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you been stuck before?

[C]

Not in a long time. Very long time.

[B]

You remember last time?

[C]

I got stuck a lot after my last partner passed away, but that was like life altering. Grief. Outside of that, I don't. Nothing really sticks out. Panic attacks.

[B]

I was gonna ask about the big three. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

If I would felt a panic attack coming on, I would chill in my car. I mean, there was a while there, anytime I would get in my car behind the wheel, I would just like have to chill for like 10 minutes and be like, we're not gonna die right now. It's okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But that was more like managing anxiety than getting stuck really. The last time I recall, it is grief.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It was weird.

[B]

Yeah. I was wondering if it was preemptive, like if you were preparing to be anxious or if. I mean, you already were anxious, obviously, but if you were preparing for like an anxiety attack, like maybe it felt like that, like before.

[C]

No, it didn't. It just. I don't know, it was the weirdest thing. But as soon as I was just like, hey, we're not just going home and like sticking at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And dreading every minute until this dog is hopefully alive at the end of the day.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was like, I'm just going to keep going. And then if you get stuck, you're going to get stuck, but you're also going to get stuck at the next place because we're not just fucking bailing all this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Proud of you for keeping going. That's.

[C]

Thanks, man.

[B]

Yeah. So I want to call it a day.

[C]

Yeah, I know. Hey, I know you would have dropped that dog off.

[B]

I'm like, well, I was going to go to the gym, but.

[A]

Nah. Why?

[C]

It wasn't that hard

[B]

for me. It's overwhelming. I imagine it's overwhelming for you too, but like. Yeah, I don't know how to get over that hump.

[C]

Which hump?

[B]

The overwhelm hump.

[C]

So you're like, you're. You pull in, you park the car, you're stuck in the car. And then what?

[B]

And then I probably argue with myself, try and convince myself to go to the gym or the next place, wherever I'm supposed to go. And then there's a panic of can I get out of it? How do I get out of it and then bail and then come home and climb in bed.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Probably safety. Also, if I'm going to the gym, I know I'm not going to get anything done. I'm going to be non stop distracted. And thinking about what I'm like, it's not going to be a good gym visit.

[C]

But you still went to the gym.

[B]

Yeah, or wherever. Whatever I'm doing is not going to be great.

[C]

Has to be great.

[B]

Doesn't have to be great. But it feels like a waste. It would feel wasteful.

[C]

So,

[B]

yeah, I don't. All right, so your idea is, like, at least you went, because what else are you gonna do? You're gonna come home and sit, right? Yeah.

[C]

Talk about a waste.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's why I don't get. You're like, yeah, if I go and it's just a waste, like, you're gonna waste the whole day.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

My girl and I have started using a new language, and I'm gonna take credit for it because I've implemented it.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Basically, anytime you do something that you didn't want to, but you know, you should for, like, the betterment of yourself or your day or whatever or the opposite. You know, I want to go eat junk food or whatever, and I don't like any of that. We now just be like, I put in a rep, and it's all about doing reps. Nice.

[B]

So,

[C]

yeah, it's not so much as, hey, at least I went. But, like, I'll put the rep in. So the next day that I get stuck, it's going to be easier to have a better workout, and it's going to be easier to knock. And, like, every time you do it as a rep, and that's how you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Get in shape and strong and all that.

[B]

So.

[C]

Yeah. Not like something's better than nothing at the gym, but. Yeah. Just put in a rep instead of quitting, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, I like that.

[C]

Thanks. I came up with it. I don't know if you're about reps. Short for repetitions.

[B]

Yeah. I'm big in the fitness community, I think also, I. For me. Ah. There's a piece of me that thinks that I'll come out of it. Like, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna go to the gym right now. I'm gonna go home and just chill for a minute, and then I'll be magically better. And how many times does that happen? Yeah. Zero.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But every time you're like, yeah, I'll be fine, but just chill for, like, an hour, and then everything will be fine. Actually, sometimes that does work. Sometimes that does work.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Not often. Sometimes.

[C]

Now, when you say come out of it, does that mean go back to the activities that you had.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Done. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Even if it is just showing up or trudging through it or doing whatever. Like, at least you're doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Interesting. I'll be doing reps out here, dog.

[B]

Doing them reps, getting strong reps. Doug.

[C]

Reps suck, though, you know?

[B]

Yeah, dude.

[C]

Really sucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But it also is so annoying that it. Each rep, it gets easier. It's so stupid.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I hate it. I like it. Hate it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Must be nice to have a partner. What.

[C]

What does she have to do with it? I'd be doing reps even without her.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What?

[B]

I feel like it's. It's easier. I mean, I feel like it's a little easier if you're codependent. Sure.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I think it's easier for anybody if you have a. If you have a buddy, if there's a buddy system for a reason, you know? And in life, that. I'm sure things are a lot easier with a buddy. Codependency. That's just human nature.

[C]

Okay. I don't know. Whenever we talk about reps, it's never like, hey, I don't want to do this. Like, can you.

[B]

No, I'm not saying that, but it's just. It's a fun thing to do with somebody. It's a fun thing to have.

[C]

It doesn't feel fun. I'll ask her if she thinks it's fun.

[B]

I don't think so. Well, without a buddy, you're just talking out loud to yourself being did a rep, and it's like, okay, cool. But, like, you got a little buddy.

[C]

All right. I don't think I would do it out loud if I was single. I think I'd still be doing the reps, though.

[B]

Oh, I talk to myself out loud all the time.

[C]

I do, too, but I don't do about. Well, you know, I mind about reps. Oh, yeah.

[B]

When you guys aren't home, I'd be talking.

[C]

Oh, I believe that.

[B]

I'd be yapping. I know.

[C]

We have a nest cam downstairs, probably.

[B]

I'd be yapping, dude, that's some only child. I'd be yapping.

[C]

I. Yep. A lot, too. I wonder I wasn't an only child. Interesting.

[B]

Are you having conversations or you just making comments?

[C]

Oh, I play both sides of the conversation.

[B]

Same. Yeah.

[C]

Unhinged behavior. I've caught myself in front of other people, like, mouthing, like, completely out of the moment, like, having a conversation that's not happening.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And I've had people go, are you. Who are you talking to? I go, you saw that huh.

[B]

Really? Yeah. I've never been called out, but, oh, I've been caught. Yeah, Some people come, like, around the grocery store corner or something. I'm yapping and I'm like. They look at me like there's nobody else in this fucking aisle. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

You got to wear AirPods, bro. Solve it and just play nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What's going on with you?

[B]

Oh, man. Not doing reps. Not doing reps. Tell you that.

[C]

Do some reps, dude.

[B]

I'm doing some rest. A lot of rest periods for me.

[C]

Yeah, I put my dog in your

[B]

room, then I'm taking a time out.

[C]

Yeah. What are you timing out from?

[B]

No, I'm just saying that's what I'd be doing instead of doing reps, man. Where to. Where to even begin? I'd be working on love and relationships.

[C]

Must be nice to be single.

[B]

It's not. It's not.

[C]

Speaking of, on our other podcasts on Patreon, you told a lovely story from a lady you were recently seen a couple times.

[B]

Yeah. You're on Patreon.

[C]

Insane, Joy. Insane.

[B]

But.

[C]

Okay. Sorry I interrupted.

[B]

God, I just thought I was. I hit like, a checkpoint. You know what I mean? Like, I thought I was further along, and then I had a checkpoint moment and I was like, oh, fuck.

[C]

Okay. I said okay. Like, I know you're talking about, and I need more.

[B]

Yeah, I. I'm not going to share a lot of details, but I'll share some framing.

[C]

Did you reach out to your ex?

[B]

No. God, I wish.

[C]

Again, I jumped in. I'm just going to. I'm just going to listen now.

[B]

Do I want to share that? Maybe it's for Patreon, maybe not. That'll be for after the pod. Okay.

[C]

Remind me, what do I say?

[B]

Just bring her up.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Got a fun one if you're on Patreon. Got a fun one for you later.

[C]

Oh, God, I can't wait.

[B]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[C]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[B]

I'm using BetterHelp. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[B]

Not a good fit. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[C]

And you're married now.

[B]

Never.

[A]

Never.

[C]

You're in love now.

[B]

I have to talk about this. My therapist.

[C]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[B]

Absolutely not.

[C]

Let's do one together.

[B]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[C]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you? Dude, you think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[B]

I know you will.

[C]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com Secondhand therapy we love you guys.

[A]

Whether you're on the go or at the ballpark, T Mobile is built to keep you connected wherever the game takes you. With America's best network, you know your phone is going to work, even in a crowded stadium. For instance, if you lose track of your friends after a long seventh inning stretch, one quick message and a shared location later, you'll find each other or without missing the next pitch. And you can upload the video of the game winning hit and share it before you even leave your seat. And on the days you can't make it to the ballpark, streaming the game on the go feels just as electric. No buffering, no interruptions, just every moment as it happens. Find out how baseball hits different with T mobile@t mobile.com MLB fastest based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data of national speed score Results for the second half of 2025. Best based on analysis by Ookla of the speed test intelligence Data for the second half of 2025 I had went

[B]

on a date with someone recently. We had hung out a couple times and it felt very familiar. And

[C]

will you expound on familiar?

[B]

We were just very comfortable with each other very quickly. Okay. And it was one of those moments you hear about where you're like, oh, I feel like I've known this person for years. And I'm just meeting them for the first time. It was one of those moments.

[C]

Got it.

[B]

And we both thought that about each other and expressed it. And then we were exchanging text and some phone calls and hanging out a few times, and then things kind of shifted and they pulled back, and I found myself. In my old codependency shit about, like, you know, I was kind of. I'm not kind. I was spiraling about, like, am I coming on too strong? Was this too much? Like, did I do something wrong? Like, you know, all those things, when really it was just, like, she got busy. And I was even struggling with the idea of being like, do I bring this up? We've only seen each other a couple times.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But the connection was really strong. Do I just be honest and be like, hey, I've noticed a shift here or whatever.

[C]

Yeah. And that is tricky, having only hung out a couple times. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, do you come off as a psychopath, or do you come off as somebody who's in tune with the situation?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where's the line?

[C]

Well, you can't control how you come off.

[B]

Hey, we'll get to that.

[C]

I beat you, huh?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[B]

So I talked to a friend, and they were like, absolutely. Say nothing. Like, don't do that. Like, don't. Yeah. And I was like, cool. I'm just gonna be cool then. And so I also fell back and.

[C]

Super cool.

[B]

Super, very cool.

[C]

This guy.

[B]

The coolest dude you could ever know, dude. I was like, oh, we're stepping back. No problem.

[C]

Were you super cool inside?

[B]

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Outside Moonwalking? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Inside?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Spiraling.

[C]

Moonwalking on ice.

[B]

What did I do wrong? Yeah. Okay. Why don't they love me?

[C]

Been there. I get it. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And then in the moments of the step back, I noticed all this unhealthy behavior in myself that was creeping back in. And I'm like, oh, yeah, dude. You are really caught up in your feelings right now. And you're also, like, you know, worrying about abandonment already and, like, all these other things. And, like, I was doing the fucking codependent thing where I'm like, well, I would be texting her right now, or I would be calling her. Like, why is she calling? You know, that kind of. And I'm like, hey, alarm bells ringing.

[C]

But would you have been?

[B]

Yeah, I wanted to. I wanted to reach out.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But I'm super cool as. As we know.

[C]

You could be. You might be.

[B]

So I. We were supposed to see each other, and I cut things Off. And I was just honest with her. And I was like, hey, you know, I've noticed this shift. And in this shift, in this kind of pullback, I realized this and this, blah, blah, blah. And she hit me where she's like, do you think it would have been better just to bring up that you've noticed the shift? And I was like, yeah, that's all I've been thinking about for a week.

[C]

And hard to tell, right? You know, hard to tell.

[B]

It's hard to. Here's. Okay. I can't figure it out. On these apps. I am trying to be cool, but also be direct.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Like somebody I had matched. And we were talking back and forth, a few exchanges, nothing crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, yeah, I think we get along in real life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, we should do a vibe check. And then she wrote back, what makes you think. What about my profile makes you think

[C]

that you can't make me think anything.

[B]

And didn't reply to that. And I.

[C]

You didn't reply to it?

[B]

No, I didn't say that. Oh, what? I. I thought in my. I have two options here. I was like. Because there was a lot of things I liked about her profile that she said. And, you know, this and that. I was like, am I gonna go and, like, list a couple things on a profile and just be like, hey, here's what I liked. Or here's what I thought.

[C]

Which can we label honesty?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, you could be honest or.

[B]

Or I could be more honest. Which I was. And I said, hey, I was gonna send you a list a couple things on your profile, but I would just thought that I would list a couple things instead. Like, I would just mention a couple things instead. You know, that I. That I did like, that stood out to me. Instead of listing them like a crazy person and I mentioned a few things, and they unmatched me.

[C]

And I was like, okay, hold on. So option one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Was answer her question directly.

[B]

Option one was to go through and, like, actually list, like, 1, 2, 3. Like, these are the things I liked. That was option one.

[C]

And then option two was to explain why you're not doing option one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then do option one in a different way.

[B]

Option one in a more casual way. So instead of, like, bullet pointing things, just being like, hey, I like that you said about this thing about pacing because she was like, you're not into, like, one night stands or this or that. Like, you got to get to know me first and blah, blah, blah. Like, I like to take my time. I Was like, I like what you said about pacing. It shows that you really know yourself and know your speed. I really like that kind of thing. Instead of listing pacing this, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. So I thought I was being kind of quirky and casual by being like, yeah, I was gonna be a crazy person and list off a bunch of things, but here's just a couple things that I liked. Like here, I'm just gonna mention them.

[C]

I don't understand the difference.

[B]

You don't know the difference.

[C]

I sure don't. Because if you had put one, pacing, two, tattoos, three. That's crazy, right? No one. Did you. Was there a part of you that thought that's what she was asking for?

[B]

Yeah. Huh. And I was like, well, that seems crazy to do. So I'm not going to do that. And me mentioning I'm not going to do that seems crazy. Hey, that's crazy. Yeah.

[C]

I think. I think she was more so being like, hey, can you act like you read my profile at least? And it's not just pictures.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

But you heard I got some homework for you.

[B]

I heard that. I heard, hey, my profile. And I wanted to be like, yeah, that's what I was trying. The. The goal was to be like, yeah, I actually read your profile and enjoyed some of the things you were saying.

[C]

I'm gonna. Can I be honest with you?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Swing and a miss, for sure. Swinging a miss for sure. Here's what I was gonna do. But I'm not insane, so here it is. Anyway.

[B]

So anyways, when it comes back to this other situation, I was like, yeah, what I want to do is call it out, but that seems like it could be a crazy thing to do, so I will just follow. I was telling her. I was like, I was just following your lead and. Okay. Stepping back.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I was also very honest about, like. Because we are. We talked for, like, over an hour.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And like I said, we were very comfortable. We had already shared and talked about a lot of things before this or whatever. Just like, yeah, great connection. And so I was like, all right. So here's also where I'm at. I was like, I like you and. I. You have the power to hurt me.

[C]

You told her that?

[B]

Yeah. And I. I know I'm not ready to get hurt yet. I'm just getting back out there and. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought I was further along than that. I thought that I was. I thought that I was able to go into these situations knowing that, like, oh, yeah, you could get hurt or this or that. But then when presented with it, I. Oh, man. It scared the shit out of me. I was very, very nervous about getting hurt.

[C]

I have a question.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think I know who we're talking about.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

It didn't seem like you liked her that much. There was. There was some attraction problem. Behavioral problems.

[B]

Yeah, there were a couple things. And that was also in the. That was more so in the reflection, too, of the step back. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

So do you. Do you think you liked her more than you let on with me, or do you think you thought you liked her more than you did when you

[B]

said that to her with you? Yeah, because I was even. Even. I was. I was bummed that, like, to break things off.

[C]

Yeah,

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It was just. It felt like I said in the beginning, like, it felt really familiar and really, really comfortable very quickly.

[C]

Yeah. Which is interesting that that's a draw for you. You like the chase, you like the new and the exciting. Usually

[B]

I'm trying to figure out if I agree with that or not. I don't know your words, my boy.

[C]

Yeah, I understand that that could change.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I just didn't know that that had changed. But that's usually your kind of. I don't have a better word. Your rationale for the idea of non monogamy is that you like the excitement of new and things like that. So being very comfortable right away, just surprising that that was a draw. It sounds like. Or it doesn't sound like. I guess I would have assumed wrongly. It sounds like that that would be a little boring.

[B]

No, when I. I think when I'm talking about. I don't necessarily like the chase or the. That's what I do. Like, is that when I'm. Is the. Is the. Is the comfortability and. And the familiarness. And so when my problem with monogamy is not missing the chase or, like the newness of something, it. It's. Sometimes you do meet somebody new that has that familiar comfortability that. And it's like, oh, this is a. This is a connection, and I'm not allowed to explore it because I'm in a monogamous relationship.

[C]

I see.

[B]

So, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm always talking about. Like, sometimes you just meet somebody and you click or you connect or whatever. Like, that's what I'm talking about. That's not chase. That's comfortability. Or that's just like a. I don't know. Sometimes you just meet somebody out in the wild and you're like, what is this? Yeah,

[C]

We'll Be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[B]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[C]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[B]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[C]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com/sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talking about my love life.

[B]

Okay, all right.

[C]

Talk about my love life.

[B]

Trying to see some. Some. Maybe some road bumps.

[C]

Just seeing if it's gonna be now. I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're going to do a medium.

[B]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[C]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us. Cause I want to hear how it went.

[B]

Oh, I can't. Please, please. DM us.

[C]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[B]

I want the tea. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[C]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[B]

I'm using Better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That it was not a good fit.

[B]

It's not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapist is like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[C]

And you're married now.

[B]

Oh, no.

[C]

Never.

[A]

Never.

[C]

You're in love now.

[B]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[C]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[B]

Absolutely not.

[C]

Let's do one together.

[B]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[C]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[B]

I know you will.

[C]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.

[B]

I wrote a book, which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries, and it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's. It's more about moments. Like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date. Or, you know, that silence after someone says I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the [e-mail] so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun stuff Velvet Tiger books.com whether

[A]

you're on the go or at the ballpark, T Mobile is built to keep you connected wherever the game takes you. With America's best network, you know your phone is going to work even in a crowded stadium, for instance, if you lose track of your friends after a long seventh inning stretch, one quick message and a shared location later, you'll find each other without missing the next pitch. And you can upload the video of the game winning hit and share it before you even leave your seat. And on the days you can't make it to the ballpark, streaming the game on the go feels just as electric. No buffering, no interruptions, just every moment as it happens. Find out how baseball Hits different with T mobile@t mobile.com MLB fastest based on analysis by OOKLA of Speed Test intelligence data of national speed score Results for the second half of 2025. Best based on analysis by OOKLA of the Speed Test intelligence data for the second half of 2025.

[B]

It's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out. Velvet Tiger books.com My therapist actually gave me this podcast to listen to Secondhand therapy. Wouldn't that be great? Fucking hater about relationships. And they were breaking down. Like, I mean, you and I had a little bit of a conversation about it before about, like, these ideas that we are just naturally taught, you know, traditionalism and. And growing up and like, societally, like about the hierarchy of relationships, for example, and things like that. And it was super interesting. I've listened to a few of the episodes and it's like they do a really great job of being honest and breaking down the different types of relationships and where they stem from and how to break the habits, if you're interested in that without, like, pushing it or doing. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, hey, maybe you've heard this term. Here's what it is, here's what it means. And you know, sometimes they have somebody on that is experiencing that, like polyamory or whatever they're talking about. Like, they're like, oh, yeah, I was poly for a while and this is what happened. Or this is like the actual breakdown of it. And, you know, whatever that is, it was super interesting.

[C]

Yeah, you told me about it. I didn't. I didn't subscribe to any of it. I know you were telling me stuff. I was like, yeah, I don't agree with that at all. Yeah, I also hate podcast. Yeah, I found a podcast. I kind of like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

When I say I found, I mean my girl played it in the car when we were on a long drive.

[B]

What is it?

[C]

And I didn't hate it. Couldn't tell you.

[B]

I also don't know the name of this podcast, but I will put it

[C]

on Patreon and go to Patreon. Because if you're in our DMs trying to get on our show, go on that one. You're not coming on the show.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I found it really interesting. And then that opened up a conversation. Like, I was talking about what I liked about it when I didn't and, like, some takeaways, and it opened up this further narrative about, like, what it is that I am looking for. And I had, for the first time, made a list of things that I would like in a potential partner.

[C]

Qualities of your next partner.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And then we started talking about, like, what exactly it is that. That I am into, because it's not. It's a. It's a weird. I don't even know how to describe it, and it's hard to describe, but, like, because it's not. Because the. I feel like the two options are. Are extreme on both sides, and I don't subscribe to either one. So it's like, it's either monogamy, which is traditional, like, one person forever and ever and ever, and you're, you know, whatever.

[C]

And.

[B]

And on the other side of the spectrum is, like, polyamory. Right. Where it's like, okay, you have 14 people living in your house. I know that's not what it is. I'm just trying to be funny. Like, you know. You know, you have a group of people and this and that. And, like, I'm also not interested in that.

[C]

It's interesting that you refer to it as a spectrum.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That means there's a middle.

[B]

Yeah, there is a middle. But I also don't fall into that either, because I feel like a middle would be maybe some form of. Like, some form of poly is still in the middle. I feel like maybe you have multiple partners, but they're ongoing or something like, that would be a middle ground.

[C]

I mean, anything that's not traditional monogamy is in the middle of the spectrum.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, we're getting way off track. Okay. I went Dakota today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was like, you know what? I've been slacking, and it's not on purpose. It's just been. Not a priority. I've not made it a priority. And this was an awakening, and I was like, oh, you have a lot of work to do still. And I thought I was further along. And one of the themes that we were talking about today was control. And I don't realize how much. I try to control until it's like. Till I'm being reflective. I'm just so used to it. And it. I use control for safety.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It. I think it protects me.

[C]

Been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm sure I still do it all the time.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And life's way less scary when it's predictable.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And I just realized that I have a lot of work to do in that area, and

[C]

I'm.

[B]

I think I'm gonna. I don't think I am going to look into somebody who does parts work, and so I can start working at it from the root because I don't know how else to do it, and I don't want to continue to.

[C]

When you say the root. The root of what?

[B]

That protection, that control. That idea of that. That's what it is. That idea of protection. I need to go down and talk to my protectors and be like, hey, man, we're good. Sometimes I get it.

[C]

But does your. Your guy do parts work?

[B]

No, I'm gonna look for somebody else.

[C]

Did you break up with him already?

[B]

No, I'm gonna keep him, but I'm gonna get an additional person. I really like my guy. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Double therapist. Yeah, I know. I got one in a couple therapists right now, so.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Again, I thought I was further along, and I'm not. And it was a real big. Real big check engine light this past week.

[C]

What was happening that you thought or felt you were further along? Did you think or feel that you were further along?

[B]

What was happening that I was able to. I just wasn't presented with somebody. That really gave me that spark like that in person like that. You know what I mean? That I'd spent, like, actual time with, and I was like, oh, fuck. And all those. All those feelings came racing back of, I'm not enough for this person,

[C]

and

[B]

they're gonna find that out, and I'm gonna get hurt real bad.

[C]

I have a thought, if you're interested.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I don't know if I stand by it yet.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think you might be lying to yourself.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

This person that you're referring to, I don't doubt from everything you said, it sounded like you guys hit it off.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

She also told you that she's kind of in, like, a roster phase and has guys that, if they're not playing. Right. She drops. And. So. I just. I don't. I don't know that she was ever an option. Because she kind of told you that what she's doing right now, which she's allowed. No judgment.

[B]

Absolutely fine.

[C]

I don't know what my thought is. It's either that instead of. Because typically, a woman like that, you can't get enough because it's a. You win them over. Can I get them to like me? Like, of course. And you didn't do that, which is good for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I don't know if that's my thought.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

That could be what my thought. Good job. My thoughts. Good job.

[B]

Thank You.

[C]

But the other half of the thought

[B]

is,

[C]

I wonder if. Because she was never really an option. If. I don't know, I don't know what the thought is.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Like, maybe your avoidance kicked in

[B]

and.

[C]

Because, I mean, for lack of a better phrase, the rejection's inevitable with somebody who's not available. I don't know. It's complicated. Complicated thoughts. Yeah, that makes sense, everybody. You like that idiot yapping, dude.

[B]

My. My only counter to that would be no matter what her actions or behaviors are, my actions and behaviors were that I was getting wrapped up real fast and saw the potential of getting hurt and bailed.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the potential of getting hurt was she'll find out you're not good enough.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

I have another thought.

[B]

Can't wait.

[C]

That also sounds like such a you thing to go after an unavailable woman and then when she turns out to be unavailable, you go, I knew I wasn't good enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You just set yourself up for whatever is going to break your hearts. What you're going to do.

[B]

I was just going to say that. Yeah.

[C]

But you broke the cycle.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I have one more thing to say.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Good rep, dude.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[C]

Yeah. Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhandtherapypod okay, love you.

[A]

Bye.

[C]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear.

[A]

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