Intro to Trauma Zombies | #133

Summary

Secondhand Therapy – "Intro to Trauma Zombies" (#133)

Podcast by PonyBear Studios
Release Date: June 8, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti ("Sid") & Michael Malone ("Elliot")

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Episode Overview

This episode of Secondhand Therapy dives deep into themes of self-awareness, emotional vulnerability, and the challenging experience of living with and processing trauma. The hosts, Sid and Elliot, build on their ongoing series of authentic, funny, and sometimes raw therapy reflections. In this session, Sid confronts his tendency to avoid vulnerability on the podcast, discusses being "stuck in yellow" (logic mode), and shares a potent metaphor from therapy: our unresolved traumas are "buried alive." Elliot, meanwhile, faces his own unprocessed grief triggered by a TV show about addiction and loss, revealing the complicated ways grief shapes his life and fears.

Throughout, the hosts use candid humor and friendship to explore the real mess of mental health, personal growth, and the importance (and discomfort) of accountability.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sid’s Self-Accountability and Therapy Journey

• Sid acknowledges he hasn't been emotionally vulnerable on the podcast for months.
  • He realizes he's maintained a logical, conversation-driving role, even as he challenged Elliot to be vulnerable.
  • "I have not been vulnerable on this podcast in months... I haven't been challenging myself the way I challenge you." (11:48)
• Sid’s therapy update: Back to more frequent sessions.
  • Struggling to move from "yellow" (logic) to "green" (wise mind – logic + emotion synthesis).
  • Plans to attend individual therapy every other week and couples therapy on alternating weeks.
  • Focus: "Parts work" and trying to access emotion as well as logic.

Notable Quote:

"Even though I am feeling content and my anxiety has been very manageable food wise, I'm doing great. I have a very specific area of growth that I'm struggling with. So I'm going to be going every other week to individual therapy and then every other week in between I'll be doing couples therapy. So I will be in therapy every week now one way or another with the intention on and the focus on doing parts work and being able to access more emotion." — Sid (10:35)

---

2. The "Buried Alive" Metaphor and Emotional Avoidance

• Sid shares a therapist’s striking analogy:
  • His therapist tells him: "All the things that are buried inside of you are buried alive." (22:55)
  • This analogy sparks a strong, visceral reaction—panic, crawling skin, the feeling of "trauma zombies" clawing their way out.
  • Sid connects this to his past panic attacks, feeling waves of energy and emotion forced down beneath logic.
• Sid struggles with parts work:
  • Logic part of self has served as protector, but now blocks emotional healing.
  • Wants to learn to honor both the logical and emotional sides, to reach "wise mind."

Notable Moment:

"My skin's crawling right now, dog. Huh? Buddy, the hair on me is standing up. Buried alive. All the things that are buried inside of you are buried alive." — Sid (22:55)

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3. Podcast Vulnerability, Public Perception, and Boundaries

• Discussion on the pressures of public vulnerability:
  • Sid admits he hasn't let himself be "seen" on the pod as much recently, especially as audience numbers grow.
  • Both Elliot and Sid reflect on boundary issues—how public sharing leads listeners to feel they "know" the hosts, which in turn can result in critical or overly familiar feedback.
  • Sid feels the waterfall of online attention and comments can be overwhelming:

  "Niagara Falls. I can drown... A waterfall will tear down a rock over time, you know?" — Sid (37:14)

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4. Elliot’s Grief and the Unexpected Trigger

• A fictional TV show about addiction triggers deep grief for Elliot.
  • He watches a character OD and realizes the show evokes powerful feelings linked to the real-life deaths of his father, brother, and friends.
  • Notices himself doing breathing exercises to manage emotional overwhelm.
  • Recognizes a tendency to "enjoy" sadness because it allows him to feel something, even if it's painful.
• The overwhelming nature of grief:
  • Talks about fear of "opening the closet door" and being overwhelmed by what's inside.
  • Admits to avoiding deep grief for fear he'll be "lost in it and never stop crying."
  • Reveals that his ongoing sense of loss, especially for his mother, leaves him questioning purpose.

Notable Quotes:

"I start to feel bad while I'm watching this show. I start to feel sad. Not bad, sad... It's the first time I've noticed myself in real time being like, you're kind of excited that you're sad right now." — Elliot (51:12)

"I have just a closet full of grief. And the second I open that door, it just pummels me. And I'm like, well, how do you clean that closet out?" — Elliot (61:12)

---

5. The Friendship Dynamic: Challenge, Humor, and Care

• Elliot comforts Sid after his accountability moment:
  • Expresses appreciation and excitement for Sid’s renewed commitment to growth.

  "But more so as a friend, seeing you come around to that and dropping your guard a little, that's huge, man." — Elliot (19:41)

• The "hater" dynamic and mutual honesty:
  • Elliot admits to butting heads with Sid's logical side but says, "I need you to know how much I value and appreciate that logical side. As much as I fight with it and butt heads with it." (46:09)
  • They both acknowledge at times they push each other's buttons, sometimes weighing heavy, sometimes avoiding.
• The friendship makes heavy topics bearable through inside jokes and light teasing.

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Sid's accountability and therapy confession: 08:32–17:00
• Buried alive metaphor and trauma zombies: 22:03–26:30
• Public vulnerability and boundaries: 36:00–37:51 & 43:16–44:33
• Elliot's grief trigger and TV show discussion: 48:39–58:26
• Exploring family loss and change in grief relationship: 58:26–61:28
• Dynamic between the hosts – logical vs. emotional: sprinkled throughout, notably at 44:16, 46:09, and 47:29.

---

Memorable Moments & Quotes

On the Difficulty of Vulnerability

• Sid: "God, I hate accountability, man. It's very uncomfortable." (11:50)

On Overwhelm from Audience Attention

• Sid: "Fucking. I mean, a waterfall will tear down a rock over time, you know?" (37:14)

On Grieving and Avoidance

• Elliot: "There is a certain point that I know about that I avoid. Like, the fucking deep end of a fucking pool where it's like, if I get down deep enough, I won't survive it." (57:36)

On Friendship and Growth

• Elliot: "More so as a friend, seeing you come around to that and dropping your guard a little, that's huge, man." (19:41)
• Sid (joking): "I'm not gonna believe any of it right now. Okay. For the sake of the show. I hate this fucking show." (45:34)

---

Tone & Language

• Raw honesty balanced with humor
• Candid, curse-laden, and emotionally direct ("bitch, can I talk to you in private?")
• Frequent self-deprecation and teasing
• Reflections grounded in lived experience, not theory

---

Summary

In this episode, Sid and Elliot deliver a powerful dose of "secondhand therapy" for themselves and listeners. Sid moves past months of emotional avoidance, recommitting to vulnerability and admitting how scary it is to be truly seen. His therapist's metaphor of trauma as "buried alive" introduces the vivid episode title: "Trauma Zombies," capturing how past pain lingers beneath the surface. Elliot, meanwhile, is forced to confront the weight of his own grief, triggered by a fictional overdose, and expresses his fear of getting lost in sadness.

Both hosts wrestle with accepting help and being seen, all while maintaining their trademark banter and mutual support. They remind us that emotional growth is messy, slow, and seldom a straight line—but that humor and friendship can make even the hardest conversations possible.

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Note: All advertisements, sponsorships, and non-content segments have been excluded from this summary.

Transcript

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[Elliot]

Second Hand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. When I remind you that we are not therapists, we're not experts, this is not a substitute for therapy, and this is not a professional advice in any way.

[Sid]

It's true.

[Elliot]

I like your pillow.

[Sid]

Thanks.

[Elliot]

You feel me.

[Sid]

You know how I feel about that. Delighted. Which funnels into joy. You know how I know? Because there's a feelings wheel in the back.

[Elliot]

Because there's a feelings wheel. Okay. Yeah.

[Sid]

What do you want to talk about?

[Elliot]

Well, lots of stuff today.

[Sid]

Okay. Look, look, look.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Last week we had Alexis here. There were no ads. You're gonna get fucking assaulted with ads.

[Elliot]

We're doubling. No, we're not. But you're gon. Ads or ads are back.

[Sid]

Yeah, they're back this week. If you would like to get out of that, you can go to patreon.com secondhand therapy pod where you can get ad free episodes. You will get early access to episodes. And I've never explained this before, if you sign up for Patreon and you get the ad free early episodes, which you get with any tier, by the way, you do get an RSS feed, which you can. It's very simple. It sounds complicated. It's not. You can still listen to the ad free episodes in whatever app you're using. So you can use Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon, whatever they automatically upload to your phone. The same. The only difference, they have no ads and you get them on Friday instead of Monday.

[Elliot]

Nice. There you go.

[Sid]

There's a few tiers. There's another podcast that is a lot of fun that we have. And then there's live streams. So go check it out. Patreon.com Secondhand Therapy Pod merch is available secondhand Therapypod.com Feelings Pillow.

[Elliot]

Yeah, we have hoodies. Put up a new Toast over there. Oh, we have. We do have a new tote.

[Sid]

New tote.

[Elliot]

Yep. And if you're. If you're in the reading community, I have a book out there called Modern Love and Other Natural disasters. You can find [e-mail] and you get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all this kind of.

[Sid]

I'll sign it. We're not doing that anymore. I signed the pre orders.

[Elliot]

Pre orders only.

[Sid]

I'm not signing copies anymore.

[Elliot]

You can go to velvettigerbooks.com and get a copy.

[Sid]

I will. A cheeseburger, A hot dog. I won't. Not anymore.

[Elliot]

Not anymore.

[Sid]

That was just for pre orders.

[Elliot]

You missed out.

[Sid]

You missed out. Vasectomyfarms.com if you would like to get some dope. Ass merch. And a portion of that is donated to women's reproductive resources. Now I'm going to read you what this third grader has to say.

[Elliot]

Love it.

[Sid]

So write a positive, kind message below that will help someone have a great day. And today we are reading Mira. Mira said you're the best at making people happy. That's really sweet.

[Elliot]

Adorable.

[Sid]

Give advice for how someone can have the best day ever. If you want to have the best day ever, you should go outside. Phenomenal advice.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Be kind to yourself. She gets it.

[Elliot]

It's tough.

[Sid]

Give yourself treats. Hey, I have an unhealthy relationship with food, but I think that's a good. I think that's good advice.

[Elliot]

I think that's. That's the best.

[Sid]

Treats could also just be words of affirmation for yourself. So, Mira, thank you for that. We appreciate you. Thank you, Tanya, for sending in the homework. Tanya reached out. She texted us.

[Elliot]

She did.

[Sid]

She said, hey. Oh, my God. You're sharing the homework. That's so nice.

[Elliot]

Oh, my God, that's so sweet.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

You can also contact us. All the information is below.

[Sid]

Nah.

[Elliot]

Or it's on the screen right now. If you're watching this.

[Sid]

We haven't got a Polaroid in a few weeks. I've.

[Elliot]

We've got.

[Sid]

Yeah, no donkeys, no cows, no boobs, no butts, you know, no selfies, no pictures of the sky. Nothing.

[Elliot]

Nothing.

[Sid]

No Polaroid. I love Polaroids.

[Elliot]

Send us something.

[Sid]

Send us a mail.

[Elliot]

All right.

[Sid]

At the post office. Anyway, it'd be. Open up the P.O. box and if there's like a picture

[Elliot]

or like a recipe in there, that'd be nice.

[Sid]

Maybe like a mix CD or something.

[Elliot]

That'd be nice.

[Sid]

You have an old itunes gift card that has money on it. You don't know what to do. I'm trying to stock up my ipod.

[Elliot]

All right, go on, Patreon. Join us over there. We love you. Enjoy the episode.

[Sid]

Yeah, we do love you. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[Elliot]

All right. Okay. Are you really?

[Sid]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University, found some classes, bro.

[Elliot]

Oh, you fancy.

[Sid]

Now I'm out here.

[Elliot]

He's a schoolboy.

[Sid]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[Elliot]

I mean, I love to learn.

[Sid]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[Elliot]

I need to do it more officially.

[Sid]

You never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht. And you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career. Do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Elliot]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Sid]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Elliot]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Sid]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychic source.com/sht10, okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Elliot]

Okay? All right.

[Sid]

Talk about my love life.

[Elliot]

Trying to see some. Some. Maybe some road bumps.

[Sid]

Just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Elliot]

Oh, my God. I can't Wait.

[Sid]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us because I want to hear how it went.

[Elliot]

Oh, I can't. Please, please DM us.

[Sid]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Elliot]

I want the tea.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Sid]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[Elliot]

And welcome back secondhand therapy.

[Sid]

And we know that. Oh, my God, dude, I just forgot about this too. I unfortunately have some accountability for you, for me, and for the bear cubs.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

Oh, my God. I forgot all about this until right now.

[Elliot]

Really?

[Sid]

You want to record tomorrow instead?

[Elliot]

Nope. Oh, let's. Let us. Let us hear it.

[Sid]

Okay. I had my individual monthly check in today. Not today, this week.

[Elliot]

Yeah, a couple days ago.

[Sid]

And I have been before. Before this session, I had been reflecting a lot because in my last. A month ago, my last check in was when we talked about yellow, purple, green. I'm always in my yellow. She sent me a new Venn diagram.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

With. Hey, all the autistic people that couldn't get yellow and purple don't make green. The colors make sense now. Okay, settle. Anyway, I got a new one. I'll put it up. But since my last session, I have really been struggling to get out of yellow. Yeah, it's been. I've had intention behind it. I've been mindful about it, and I'm really struggling to do it still. So I have decided that I will be going back more frequently to my individual therapy.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

Well, the reason I had stopped or the reason I had pulled back is because I've been feeling. I feel pretty good. I feel generally content. My anxiety is pretty at bay. And all that is still true.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

However, I'm stuck in yellow. And if you're. If you forgot, yellow is logical.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I exist in a logical mind. Purple is emotional mind. I'm Trying to get to my green, my wise mind, which is where you synthesize logic and emotion. And I'm really struggling to get out of yellow. So even though I am feeling content and my anxiety has been very manageable food wise, I'm doing great. I have a very specific area of growth that I'm struggling with. So I'm going to be going every other week to individual therapy and then every other week in between I'll be doing couples therapy. So I will be in therapy every week now one way or another with the intention on and the focus on doing parts work and. Being able to access more emotion.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And the accountability I have for you, I wanted to say owe you, but I don't think I owe you that. I have for you and I have for the people that listen to the podcast. God, I hate accountability, man. It's very uncomfortable. I have not been vulnerable on this podcast in months. I have, you know, I come here in the studio and I'm not faking anything. I'm not.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I'm not pretending I'm not. I'm not phoning it in. I'm not half assing it. But I haven't been challenging myself the way I challenge you. And I think because I haven't been in regular therapy, I, Without intending it to my role when I'm in here, evolved or devolved, you could argue, into driving conversation and exploring what was available to explore. And. Yeah, I haven't when it comes to sharing and. Yeah, just general vulnerability, I haven't, I haven't been doing it for a while. And that's another, another bit of intention I'm adding to accessing. My wise mind is getting back to. Sharing on this show as well, you know, And I think even more accountability is which there, there is truth to it, is that without me being in regular therapy like it, it is hard to have stuff to talk about on here because as we say every week, we're not experts. Like, you know, we can only explore with each other so much. And. So there is truth to that. But I think there is more truth. And I think that truth is that. This podcast got really big really fast and I wasn't ready for it.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And

[Elliot]

I,

[Sid]

as I've talked about on here for two years, I like to be seen when I'm ready to be seen.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And I'm not ready to be seen every week and. It's not fair to you because I know you're not ready to be seen every week. But you show up and you do and I didn't. And, Yeah, this is what I signed up for. And, yeah, it's going to be uncomfortable.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And it's been uncomfortable a lot in the last few months, but it definitely hasn't been uncomfortable as it used to be. I think I. Yeah, I used. Exploring with you and asking you questions as a way to not do that with myself. And I'm sorry I haven't been.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Emotionally, I really haven't been pulling my weight here, and I'm sorry. Yeah.

[Elliot]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Sid]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Elliot]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Sid]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Elliot]

Not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Sid]

And you're married now.

[Elliot]

Oh, no.

[Sid]

Never.

[Elliot]

Never.

[Sid]

You're in love now.

[Elliot]

I have to talk about this. My therapist.

[Sid]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Elliot]

Absolutely not.

[Sid]

Let's do one together.

[Elliot]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Sid]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you? Dude, you think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Elliot]

I know you will.

[Sid]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

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[Sid]

I'm sorry.

[Elliot]

Thank you. That's. That's huge, man. I appreciate that a lot. Seriously, it means so much. And we've had talks on and off air, too, and I think it goes back to me just being like, let me in there.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

And so. Yeah, I haven't. You know what? I already thought I was gonna cry during this episode and got very close and you're in cry right now. Yeah.

[Sid]

Why?

[Elliot]

That just. That just means a lot, man. And I'm so happ. Happy for you. I don't want to. And I'm more so because, you know, this is. This is what it is.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

You know what I mean? But more so as a friend, seeing you come around to that and dropping your guard a little, That's huge, man. I'm. I'm very excited for you and I'm very happy for you.

[Sid]

And it sounds very selfish. I think you're excited for you. You don't have to talk so much.

[Elliot]

I know.

[Sid]

I'm just fighting. Immediately makes a joke.

[Elliot]

I. And you're right. We share a lot on here. And. Yeah. I. I often just gab and then look back and be like, God, why did I share. I shared all of that. So I wish I would. I. Along the way, I wish I would have had a little bit more reserve. But you're better at that than I am. And

[Sid]

I also, I needed to go back into individual therapy because it is important me to protect my relationship and only having couples therapy, figuring out.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

How to sh. Has been impossible.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

But, yeah, I'm going to do my best to synthesize those. All that together.

[Elliot]

That means a lot. I'm really happy for you.

[Sid]

Thanks, man. I'm not. Thanks, man. Yeah.

[Elliot]

And to the thing you said before about, like, trying to find your wise mind and stuff, I'm going to tell you what you always tell me. And this is meant as encouragement. It's not a switch.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Takes time.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

You'll get there.

[Sid]

Yeah. God.

[Elliot]

Almost did it.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Okay. What else going on?

[Sid]

Okay. Well, my therapist said something to me this week that I had a visceral reaction to. And recounting it in my head right now. Heart's pumping.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

So we're talking about off parts Work and accessing emotion and going through times where I wanted to show emotion and I didn't, for whatever reason. And she said there's a couple layers to this One is I think we can acknowledge that you have buried a lot more things than you realize,

[Elliot]

but

[Sid]

we also need to remember that all those things are buried alive. And, Buddy, my skin's crawling right now, dog. Huh? Buddy, the hair on me is standing up.

[Elliot]

Buried alive. Yeah.

[Sid]

All the things that are buried inside of you are buried alive. Hey, real quick. I'll see you in two weeks.

[Elliot]

Oh, fire her.

[Sid]

She's got.

[Elliot]

Hey, you know what? This is our last conversation. Thank you so much. Oh, my God.

[Sid]

And I was. And I just went back to when I used to have panic attacks all the time. How every single time I knew a panic attack was coming was I had this wave of energy that I am not exaggerating, would go from my feet up to my head, just all through my body. And when I felt that, it feels like a lot like I was gonna throw up. So I would have that, and I'd be like, okay, it's coming. And I just now have this image of, like, trauma zombies.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Just, like, trying to get out and. Oh, boy.

[Elliot]

Yeah. What was your reaction like in the moment?

[Sid]

Just like that.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Mm. I said, bitch, can I talk to you in private?

[Elliot]

Step outside real quick.

[Sid]

She's like, we are in private. I was like, send me your address. I'll be there.

[Elliot]

Yeah, Turn the cameras off.

[Sid]

Yeah, it was.

[Elliot]

Oh, my God.

[Sid]

Yeah. Mm. And now I think every time I feel that I'm going to cry and I need to cry.

[Elliot]

Mm.

[Sid]

And I just can't. And now I just again visualize these things just clawing at the surface. Yeah, boy. Mm. All the things that are buried in you are buried alive. Oh, my. Lose my number. Yeah.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I told my girl that we went to get a coffee over.

[Elliot]

Coffee is wild.

[Sid]

I was like, yeah, you gotta believe my therapist sent me with a banger. And I told her that, and she said, I'm not exaggerating. I need a minute. And I was like, yeah, bitch, I get it. Go outside, take a walk.

[Elliot]

Yeah. Take a lap.

[Sid]

Come back, buddy. Trauma zombies.

[Elliot]

Oh, my God.

[Sid]

Yeah. Yeah. Mm. So not looking forward to the next session. Not even a little.

[Elliot]

Yeah. What happens after that? She drops something like that on you? How do you. I imagine that's probably mid.

[Sid]

That was toward the end. She doorknob me.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

She doorknob revelation me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. So then we started talking about my mom and yeah, man, essentially what this, this past session was, was figuring out the, the type of part stuff we're going to be focusing on. And I have obviously my yellow. My logic mind. Is a part of.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

That has worked very hard and got very good at its job throughout my life. Yeah. And we got to get him to relax a little bit, take some time off here and there and maybe find him a new job.

[Elliot]

But are you afraid that it struggles with your identity? Meaning what if you relax that part a little bit, that logic side of you? Because you, I think you, you like, You enjoy that part of you. Right. Like, it's a big part of your personality, like knowing, like, kind of like being a leader or things, like in, you know, things that the logical side obviously champion, whether it be problem solving or whatever, for friends or for family or for yourself.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Do you think if you relax that part, it'll be it. It'll dig at your identity a little? How people see you or how you see yourself?

[Sid]

It's an interesting question. Logic has never for me felt like a part of my identity because when you mentioned like problem solving and leading, to me, those don't. I don't excel at those things because of logic. But I mean, I mean, what you're saying makes a lot of sense logically, but I don't know. That's an interesting question. I think, I think if I can synthesize my logical and emotional into the middle and get to my wise mind, I. I assume people will see me differently. Yeah, I assume some will see me see that as an improvement. I'm sure some will see it as. Getting worse or getting weaker. I mean, I don't know. I don't know that. How to describe it. Devolving. But when it comes to my identity, I don't know. Honestly, I hadn't thought of that. It makes sense what you're saying.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

It doesn't feel. Logic doesn't feel like a piece of my identity. But hey, we'll see along the way, I guess.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

That's an interesting thought because. Yeah. As I am able to access more emotion, It, you know, it seems like it lays itself out for you that that is your getting closer to yourself and knowing yourself and those types of things.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

It makes sense that I could feel like I'm losing myself a little bit, but I guess that would be protective.

[Elliot]

Yeah, that might. I don't know the difference between

[Sid]

you

[Elliot]

feeling like you're losing yourself a little bit or that part reacting in a way that's like feeling not as necessary or needed or wanted.

[Sid]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Elliot]

I don't know where that. I don't. I don't know enough about parts work to know where that line same is.

[Sid]

Yeah. Well, I've learned all my parts react very differently. Yeah, that's interesting. That'll be. That'll be something to notice.

[Elliot]

And is that just like. Like everything else, where it's just in the moment, trying to relax that part or what does that look like as far as intention?

[Sid]

I don't know yet. I haven't even talked to this part yet, you know? Yeah.

[Elliot]

Wow.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

Because I know when. When we were exploring, like, what parts we're gonna be talking with and working with and how we access more emotion. Everything. Every scenario she presented to me was. It was just like, why is emotion not valuable here? And every single time, I'm like, how does it help? Right?

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Like, okay, you. You get laid off from your job. She's like, you need to grieve that. And I'm like, yeah, or you could go start looking for a new job. Right. When really start looking for your job is pure logic. Being in bed and crying about it for weeks is just emotional. So you got to meet in the middle, grieve it for a day to a week or something, and then start putting together a plan for how to pick your life up forward and honor both sides.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And I just. I don't honor the emotional side of it. I just look at it. I'm like, yeah, part of life. That's. Yep. And because. Yeah. What services that provide. Hey. I still don't know what service it provides, but I'm. I plan on figuring it out hopefully soon.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Yeah,

[Elliot]

yeah. Maybe it's. It is checking in with both of them, you know, like, the emotional side, too, and just inclusion and also relax and what do you think? You know?

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I did almost cry in therapy this week. Well, I, I, I leaked. Okay. Two from the right eye, none from the left eye.

[Elliot]

You got to get a tattoo. I can.

[Sid]

I did two tear. I got an appointment. She let me be a. Well, she didn't let me. The exercise was. I was a defense attorney. For my logical part, she was the judge. And. Yeah. So in this, like, little role play exercise or whatever it was, you know, I talked about how emotions don't. They don't serve a purpose here. Like, we're trying to, like, forward onward, which I stand by.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

I do stand that. Moving forward and getting onward. When you encounter turbulence in life, I think that is imperative. Yeah, but you don't have to sprint as soon as it happens, you know.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I think as long as you're. And I don't even know if I stand by this.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

I was going to say, as long as you're looking forward and onward, hang and feel while you need to, but I don't even know if that's it. Maybe you do need to have your full attention on the grief or whatever feelings are coming. But my instinct is to say as long as you're looking forward and onward, like, stay where you are if you need to for a minute.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I don't know if I stand by that. Time will tell.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And then in this exercise, we're talking about my logical part, and she said it's important that we acknowledge that this part has served me very well and really been very good at protecting me throughout my life and that it does have a lot of value.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And that was an emotional thing to hear because, You know, the logical part of me very frequently in my life feels like a villain, Especially in my home.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And in my work. Yeah. It seems to be. Yeah. It seems to be one of, if not the thing people. Hate about me or label me for. So. Yeah, just hearing her say that it had value and it was a nice thing to hear.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

And it was an emotional moment for me. You know, even, you know, we talk about outside of, you know, the house, like, the public perception of where we are. Like I said, We've gained 9,000 followers in a week. I am pretty good at not taking comments personally and not doing those things, but. The truth of it is, when you're in the public eye, like we are, the attention and the comments that we get, it's like. It's like Niagara Falls.

[Elliot]

Yeah. It's.

[Sid]

It's not a trickle. It's not even on Patreon. It's not even what they're saying or how they're saying it. It's just that it's hard. It's so hard for me why people think they know us.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

But I also. I get it, dude. We're on here sharing and crying, and some people have been with watching us every week for two years.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Like, when I watch things for two years, I feel like I know the characters and the people I'm watching, but I don't. And I'm pretty good at understanding that. But also fucking. I mean, a waterfall will tear down a rock over time, you know?

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life. You should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Elliot]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Sid]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Elliot]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Sid]

All right, so here's the thing. That. He already did it. Okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com/sht10, okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Elliot]

Okay, all right.

[Sid]

Talk about my love life.

[Elliot]

Trying to see some. Some. Maybe some road bumps.

[Sid]

Just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Elliot]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Sid]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Elliot]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please, DM us.

[Sid]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Elliot]

I want the T. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Sid]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Elliot]

I'm using Better Help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Sid]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit. It's not a good fit.

[Elliot]

Hey, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Sid]

And you're married now.

[Elliot]

Oh, no.

[Sid]

Never.

[Elliot]

Never.

[Sid]

You're in love now.

[Elliot]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Sid]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Elliot]

Absolutely not.

[Sid]

Let's do one together.

[Elliot]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Sid]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You Think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Elliot]

I know you will.

[Sid]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you guys.

[Elliot]

I wrote a book, which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries. And it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's. It's more about moments, like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date or, you know, that silence after someone says I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the [e-mail] so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun [e-mail] it's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out. Velvettigerbooks.com if you're the proud parent of

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[Sid]

Yeah, man. So that's what's going on with me.

[Elliot]

Two things.

[Sid]

Uh huh.

[Elliot]

One. Yeah. I do want to touch on that. Like, I think that. I think that is what it is, is people see us and they see us being vulnerable and they see us sharing and they are bonded to us in a way. And then that I think boils over into permission. And permission is like. I think we live in a time where the people that you see on your phone, on your screen aren't real. They're just on your screen. And so there's like this weird separation. I think that's part of it. I think there's also like this bonding thing. Like you said, like, you know, you watch a TV show for years and when that TV show ends or a character dies or something like that, you're like, oh, man, that's my buddy. And it's like, no, it's not.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

You don't know. That person feels like I might be

[Sid]

victimizing myself, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

[Elliot]

Okay.

[Sid]

I think I get it worse than you because people think I can take it.

[Elliot]

Yeah. Like I can see that.

[Sid]

And I think there's truth to that. But also Niagara Falls.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I can drown.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I won't. The fucking asshole.

[Elliot]

2.

[Sid]

Okay, open your eyes.

[Elliot]

I don't want to.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Two.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

As a hater.

[Sid]

You mean like in being a hater.

[Elliot]

When you're talking about the logical side of you and like the way people perceive it and a lot of people.

[Sid]

Oh, yeah, you're a hater.

[Elliot]

As a hater.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Yeah. I need you to know.

[Sid]

Nah.

[Elliot]

Yep. I don't want to hear it. Yeah, I don't want to hear it. I need you to know the multiple truths of it. Yeah.

[Sid]

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna believe any of it right now. Okay. For the sake of the show. I hate this fucking show.

[Elliot]

Let me in there.

[Sid]

What?

[Elliot]

Yes. We butt heads a lot because Logical, emotional. Yeah, that happens.

[Sid]

Huh? Are you gonna cry again?

[Elliot]

I think I'm trying not to cry. I'm trying not to cut this whole.

[Sid]

You're gonna bury those tears alive.

[Elliot]

I need you to know. I'm not even closed my eyes. I'm looking the eyes when I say this. I need you to know how much I value and appreciate that logical side. As much as I fight with it and butt heads with it. Because it's not my. I don't understand it. It's not my strong suit. And so I. I go against it a lot. And. And also we're talking about people thinking that you can take it and stuff. I'm guilty of that, too.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

I lay it on you a little heavy because I'm like, He.

[Sid]

He.

[Elliot]

He. He can do it. He can take it, and that's not fair.

[Sid]

Well, I'm guilty of that as well. I am like, yeah, I can take it. I'll do the socials. I'll do, like. Because 95% of the time it's fine.

[Elliot]

I just mean. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about when you and I are conversating or.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

Or butting heads. Logical. Emotionally. And that's like, I'm laying it on

[Sid]

because I feel that from you sometimes. Sometimes I feel like you're trying to get me emotional, like you're trying to get a reaction out of me.

[Elliot]

It's not trying to get a reaction out of you. It is. I don't. It's because the wall is down. I can't. I don't even know if you can, you know, I mean, I'm like, how much is getting through? And so that's. That's me just trying to, like, take a hammer to the wall so I can, like, peek in and be like, hey, man. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. And sometimes I feel like I'm taking up bigger chunks than I need to. And I. Or I mean to. Because I'm sure you come away from conversations and thinking, like, man, I fucking hurt when he said that or this or that. And I don't know those things. You know those things. I don't.

[Sid]

And so I'm not gonna share with you when they do. I'll tell you that much. Maybe one day.

[Elliot]

Maybe one day.

[Sid]

Well, thank you for saying that. I don't believe it, but thank you. Hopefully I'll believe it soon.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

What happened in your therapy? I'm done here.

[Elliot]

Okay. I. I'm gonna start here, but I'm not gonna say what show it is or whatever because of spoilers and this. Now, I was watching a TV show, and it me all up. It's a TV show that deals a lot with addiction.

[Sid]

It's a fictional TV show.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

Okay.

[Elliot]

Fictional TV show deals a lot with addiction. As we know. I have a lot of addiction in my family, and I did not go into watching this thinking that it was going to wreck me like this or even be emotional at all, because the rest of this season has not been great.

[Sid]

So the rest of the show.

[Elliot]

So I watched it just as a casual, like. All right, let's see how they wrap things up.

[Sid]

Yeah. You're watching the show. You're like, God, am I gonna get euphoric? Am I going to experience some euphoria from watching this?

[Elliot]

Exactly. Now, I don't want to say what show it is. Yeah.

[Sid]

Are Sydney scenes? Tits always out. Can she even act?

[Elliot]

So I'm watching the show.

[Sid]

You're watching the unnamed show.

[Elliot]

This unnamed show, and there is a scene. Well, let me start here.

[Sid]

You already said that.

[Elliot]

I start to feel bad while I'm watching this show. I start to feel sad. Not bad sad. Yeah. Let me see.

[Sid]

Take the pillow.

[Elliot]

Okay. It's definitely sadness.

[Sid]

Okay.

[Elliot]

I think it's hurt. Okay. Miserable. This fucking thing.

[Sid]

Anyways, it's an upsetting pillow, right?

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

I'm like, a phenomenal tool, though.

[Elliot]

So I'm feeling sad, and this is the first time I've clocked this. I felt good about feeling bad,

[Sid]

like, wallowing in misery, kind of like we've talked about.

[Elliot]

Mm.

[Sid]

Okay.

[Elliot]

It's the first time I've noticed myself in real time being like, you're kind of excited that you're sad right now.

[Sid]

Damn.

[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sid]

What did the realization feel like?

[Elliot]

Disappointing. It's more so. I like when. I like to feel things.

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

And when something.

[Sid]

Bad things begin.

[Elliot]

Yeah, yeah. Mainly sad thing. When something gives me the feels, man, I'm like, ah, God, I put it in my veins, you know?

[Sid]

Yeah.

[Elliot]

And so I'm watching the show and I'm feeling sad, and. And. Then a character overdoses and we watch it.

[Sid]

Is it graphic?

[Elliot]

It's pretty graphic. And it brought up a lot of things in me that I did not realize were there. It brought up a lot of stuff with my father. That's how he died. My brother. That's how he died. I would say a quarter of my friends that I went to high school with or, like, hung out with in my hometown, like, have overdosed. Like, it is a big theme in my life and in my grief that I did not realize was playing such a big part. And I switched over to, like, their point of view. Like, the addict's point of view. Like, made me think of my brother and what he struggled with and

[Sid]

what

[Elliot]

I assume he struggled with. And. I remember watching the show, and for the first time, I caught myself doing, like, a breathing exercise.

[Sid]

Intentionally?

[Elliot]

No. Didn't even know I was doing it. I remember just watching and. And trying to control my breath while I was watching the show, and I was like, oh, that's new. And then there's a scene where she is reaching out for her mother and she's obviously passed on. And, like, this is all like a hallucination. And she's reaching for her mom, and she. And cuts to her overdosing. And as she's gasping for air, she's calling for her mother. And that. Me up a lot.

[Sid]

And.

[Elliot]

It left me. It left. I. I am in a lot of pain. And. It's not like I didn't know it. I just didn't want to admit it. Even saying it is hard feels needy. Yeah, I'm in a lot of pain. I didn't know how much. So we're talking about grief and therapy, and I'm telling him all this. And it reminded me of that conversation with that psychic a couple months ago when we're talking about relationships. And she said that I'm afraid to deal with my grief because I'll never stop crying once I uncover it. And, hey, I think she's right. And I was telling my therapist this, and we started to explore, like, what that grief is and what it looks like. And. And I said, and why I'm scared of it. And one. Of course, it's. I was never taught how to process it. We talk about this on the show all the time, about how, like, I kind of like what you were pointing out earlier, like, the logical side of it, like, what's the point? Like, that was how I was raised was like, what's the point of being sad? There's no point. Like, keep it moving. And so there is that aspect of it, but there is this deeper aspect that I did not know until this stupid TV show uncovered it or brought it out of me. I put limitations or breaks on myself when I'm feeling sad or when I'm grieving, especially with my mother, because. I am afraid of losing myself in it. And I don't want to lose myself in grief. Yeah. There is a certain point that I. I know about that I avoid. Like, the fucking deep end of a fucking pool where it's like, if I get down deep enough, I won't survive it because I get to a point of I don't want to be here without her. And that's scary. And I don't know how to. I don't know how to get. I don't know how to get down to it without going too far. That's how I put the brakes on.

[Sid]

Do you think it's that you don't want to be here without her or you can't be here without her?

[Elliot]

I don't want to be.

[Sid]

Why?

[Elliot]

I don't know. I mean, my initial answer is, what's the point, you know, I think about that a lot and we've talked about it on here. I'm sure about, like, life has to be for me, but it sucks when you can't share it. And I want to share it with

[Sid]

her,

[Elliot]

you know, for a long time, like. Everything was for her, you know, you want your mother's love, you want your mother's approval, you want your mom to be proud of you. And if that's gone. She was my best friend. We talked about everything, you know, like, I wanted to share. I want to share with her. Yeah. So we talked about changing the relationship with the dead. So instead of thinking of it as she's gone, like, how do I change that relationship so I can still share with her or feel like I'm sharing with her in a way that allows me to start chipping away at the grief and then like looking at other grief in my life and taking care of that before moving on to the fucking heavyweight champion, you know what I mean? Like, do some little fights first.

[Sid]

What does it mean to chip away at grief or deal with it, to just process it?

[Elliot]

It's so overwhelming.

[Sid]

Yeah, it is.

[Elliot]

Oftentimes it feels like it's all I have. I'm like, it's so. There's so much of. Feels like. Feels like one of those like 80s movies where somebody opens the closet door and stuff just like pours out of it. Like, that's what it feels like. I have just a closet full of grief. And the second I open that door, it just pummels me. And I'm like, well, how do you clean that closet out?

[Sid]

One piece at a time.

[Elliot]

Exactly. Yeah, but if you know that every time you open that door, it just fucking does that. Like how many times you want you're gonna go open that door, you know,

[Sid]

maybe you leave it open. Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod. Okay, love you, bye. And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.

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[Elliot]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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