Life is Good, I Should Ruin It | #126

Summary

Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy

Episode #126: "Life is Good, I Should Ruin It"

Date: April 20, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone
Studio: PonyBear Studios

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Overview

This episode explores the complicated relationship between contentment, self-worth, and self-sabotage. Through conversational humor and candid storytelling, Louie and Michael unpack recent struggles with body image, depression, burnout, and self-destructive habits. The discussion moves into deeper territory of learned responsibility, emotional inheritance from parents, and the challenge of embracing fulfillment in a culture of chronic dissatisfaction. As always, their banter is laced with honesty, warmth, self-mockery, and a lot of jokes about snack foods and therapy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Body Image, Depression, and Shame

• Louie shares feeling "defeated" by recent weight gain and how a long-stable pant size signified self-worth due to past experiences with weight and family shame.
  • Starts at [06:01]
  • Quote: “I've been the same pant size for over 20 years [...] Then I went up a pant size... Kicking and screaming, you know what I mean? I kept trying to wear the same pants.” (Louie, [07:00])
• Michael reflects on his own relationship with size and confidence.
  • He doesn’t view weight as central to his identity but acknowledges the hit to self-esteem. ([09:51])
• The conversation exposes how internalized messages from childhood can resurface, framing small setbacks as fundamental personal failures.
  • Quote: “Feeling a little bigger now puts me back in that middle ground again of being the big kid... which was treated with shame and neglect.” (Louie, [11:33])
• Louie’s underlying belief: change is impossible (“It's too late, the damage is done”) despite clear logic and medical reassurance. ([15:13], [16:05])

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2. Self-Sabotage and Avoidance Patterns

• Michael asks how much self-sabotage derails Louie’s intentions; Louie admits: “95%” (Michael corrects: “It’s just north of 95.”) ([16:04]-[17:05])
• Concrete example: Louie plans a healthy Costco run, but upon arrival is overwhelmed, then defaults to comfort food (In-N-Out and a donut) instead. ([21:15]-[22:16])
  • Quote: “I got to Costco... then I turned right, and then I went to Ross and TJ Maxx and just looked around and didn’t really want to do anything. And then I thought, hey, there’s an In-N-Out... and I got a burger and then came home.” (Louie, [21:46])
• ADHD and perfectionism worsen the “all or nothing” overwhelm; Louie visualizes every step and potential failure, making healthy change feel impossible. ([27:41])
  • Quote: “My brain with the ADHD sees every step... Instead of just seeing ‘let’s go to Costco and get groceries’... I don't have the energy for that. I have the energy to go to In-N-Out and get a burger.” (Louie, [27:41]-[27:39])

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3. Burnout, Belonging, and the Illusion of Escape

• Returning from a draining tour, Louie craves a break from belonging and obligation.
  • Quote: “A break is not belonging to anybody or anything. There are no responsibilities. Nobody needs anything from me.” (Louie, [28:42])
• Michael challenges the logic that relief is only possible by physically escaping; asserts Louie’s sense of “obligation” is self-imposed, thus follows him everywhere.
  • Quote: “You can shut off your phone anytime you want... Everything you just described, you can do anytime.” (Michael, [30:01]-[30:39])
• Louie and Michael dissect the inner voices dictating shame and futility versus the desire for change.
  • “Whose voice is it?” — “It’s mine.” — “Both of them.” ([25:23]-[25:32])
• They discuss how burnt out energy leads to self-sabotage and passivity.

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4. Comparing to Others and the Problem of Contentment

• Louie questions his own expectations for happiness and fulfillment.
  • Wonders, “When is it real for me?” ([37:54])
  • Feels persistent disappointment even after achieving much: “Why do I still feel like I haven’t done those things?” ([37:55])
• Michael doubts that true contentment is common, viewing much of society as fundamentally dissatisfied.
  • Quote: “For me, contentment is... what I’m aiming for. And I think it’s really hard to achieve. I don’t think most people are content.” (Michael, [40:21])
• They debate whether most people are content or miserable, drawing on observation versus personal cynicism.
  • Louie: “I just have a little bit more faith in humanity than you do.”
  • Michael: “I stand very firmly in [believing the majority are not].” ([44:01]-[44:34])

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5. Emotional Contagion, Vulnerability, and Parental Lessons

• Michael introduces the concept of emotional contagion, as discussed in a support group for adult children of emotionally immature parents:
  • “When your emotions... become huge and they spread. They take over the space, they take over the room.” (Michael, [48:11]-[48:29])
  • Louie realizes he tends to broadcast his moods even if he thinks he’s concealing them:
    • “I think I'm being cool... I’m like, they have no idea. I’m so cool.” (Louie, [51:36])
    • “No. Everyone knows.” (Michael, [51:47])
• Louie notes a transition from comparing to others (envy, missing out) toward self-comparison (“me vs. me,” past regrets, “should have done this”).
  • [46:00]-[47:19]
• They dig into parental dynamics:
  • Louie’s mom was “always accepting,” but accepting for him, not for others; deep fear of being a burden or bummer for others ([54:01]-[54:26])
  • Louie discusses therapist’s prompting about anger toward his mom and others (learning to acknowledge “loving anger” rather than only offering empathy excuses). ([55:44]-[58:17])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Body image/identity:
  “Feeling a little bigger now puts me back... of being the big kid, which was treated with shame and neglect.” (Louie, [11:33])

• On perpetual self-sabotage:
  “You refuse to get out of your own way.” (Michael, [17:21])
  “You keep searching for this thing that’s going to just install motivation and discipline... Escape is never going to be the answer.” (Michael, [33:22]-[34:22])

• ‘Arriving’ at defeat:
  “There is this heavier voice... ‘We’ve arrived. There is no getting out of this.’” (Louie, [24:53])

• On obligation and responsibility:
  “If I’m here at the house... I should be doing something, and who’s putting that on you? ... I thought maybe you were the person putting that on you.” (Michael, [31:20]-[32:10])

• On contentment and ambition:
  “I keep asking myself, what is the goal? What are you running towards?” (Louie, [34:34])
  “If I’m not running, if I’m not in motion, then what will people think of me? Where’s my value?” (Louie, [34:59])

• On emotional contagion:
  “When your emotions... become huge and take over the room... you act so people understand the emotion, because it was never spoken.” (Michael, [48:29]-[50:37])

• On being seen:
  Louie: “I think I’m being cool.”
  Michael: “No… Even though every time I see you, I go, ‘You good, man?’” ([51:36]-[51:47])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Body image, shame, and pant size: [06:01]-[13:40]
• Self-sabotage & overwhelm (Costco story): [21:15]-[27:39]
• ADHD and the impossibility of simple change: [27:41]-[29:06]
• Burnout, belonging, and the illusion of escape: [28:30]-[33:22]
• The problem of contentment, society, and happiness: [37:55]-[44:34]
• Emotional contagion, parental influence, vulnerability: [48:11]-[54:26]
• Louie’s therapist on anger vs. empathy: [55:44]-[58:17]

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Tone & Style

At its heart, the episode is a blend of unguarded confession and sarcastic humor. Louie opens up about deep-rooted insecurities and emotional patterns, while Michael pushes him (sometimes bluntly, often affectionately) toward uncomfortable self-awareness. Their comfort with each other lets them mix vulnerability with jokes, producing moments both touching and hilarious:

• “There’s bats filled with Reese’s peanut butter, buddy.” (Joking about the ‘fat cave’, [14:45])
• “If you overtake me, I’ll bake you a treat.” ([13:28])
• Michael chides Louie for “playing it cool,” when everyone can see he’s struggling ([51:36]-[53:04])

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Summary for New Listeners

In “Life is Good, I Should Ruin It”, Louie and Michael dive deep into how old scars, perfectionism, depression, and self-sabotage conspire to keep even a “good run” of life feeling unsatisfying. Both hosts reveal the messy inner dialogue—and the lingering family legacies—that block the path to contentment.

If you struggle with self-doubt, avoidance, or the fear that happiness always slips away, this episode will make you feel seen—and maybe make you laugh at how human (and ridiculous) the struggle can be.

Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhandtherapypod welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. I wanna remind you that we are not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

It's very true.

[B]

Nicely done.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I've decided in these intros, I'm sure I want to spice them up a little bit.

[A]

Ok. Okay.

[B]

I'm either going to bring a story from the week or a word of the day.

[A]

O.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I forgot to bring either today. So next week.

[A]

Thanks for telling us.

[B]

We're starting with either a story from the week or a word of. Okay, here's a story. I post a picture Instagram with my shirt off. First time I've ever done that in my whole life. That's a story.

[A]

And what happened? Where's. What's the story? What happened?

[B]

I just did something that was very uncomfortable.

[A]

No results. Nothing you want to talk about?

[B]

A lot of men liked it. Lot of men in the dms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of men.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of men calling me daddy.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

A lot of men telling me how handsome and sexy I am.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

A lot of men telling me how strong I am.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

And they're right.

[A]

Hey, when they're right, they're right.

[B]

Yeah. So that happened.

[A]

Well, you're not on Patreon, so you're about to hear a lot of ads. So you can go over there and support the show. Support us. That would help out a lot. And you could add free episodes, a bunch of other bonus stuff. Head on over to Patreon.

[B]

You can get there patreon.com Secondhand hand therapy.

[A]

And there's merch available.

[B]

There is merch available.

[A]

There's merch available. We got some cool going on. We got a new hat somebody's wearing. I don't know if you saw that.

[B]

Here's the thing.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

I'm tired of hearing it. I'll put on my head.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

You like the hat?

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I designed it myself.

[A]

It's pretty cool.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

You can also contact us. All that information if you're listening is below in the description. And if you're watching, it's on the screen right now.

[B]

So merch is available. Secondhand therapypod.com Philanthropy merch is a vertical. The merch is a vertical. @vasectomyfarms.com A portion of all that is donated to women's. Reproductive Resources. Thank you for being here.

[A]

We appreciate you.

[B]

We appreciate you. We appreciate you. Hey, we appreciate you.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Hey, remember, go get a psychic reading. Because mine told me that, you know, there was going to be turbulence in my relationship, and we have couples counseling on Monday. So go get a psychic reading. It's good for you. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[A]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[B]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[A]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[B]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And, look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[A]

Okay? All right.

[B]

Talk about my love life.

[A]

Trying to see some. Some.

[B]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's going to be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[A]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[B]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[A]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please, DM us.

[B]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

I want the tea.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back. Secondhand therapy. We know that I'm in a little funk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's annoying.

[A]

Hey,

[B]

what a. Yeah, I've been feeling really depressed. Like. Yeah. Obnoxious. Yeah, it sucks around here. So obnoxious. Your sadness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

Oh, buddy, I am feeling funky. Funky. I was telling my therapist, I already. It's the feeling of already being defeated. Like the. It's so stupid. I.

[B]

Why do we start that way?

[A]

Well, because I understand how foolish it is to care about something like this.

[B]

Okay, but you do.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Well, it's stupid, but it's smarter than you, so that's. And that's not ideal.

[A]

You know what? We're done here.

[B]

Oh, sorry about that.

[A]

Show's over.

[B]

Check out the hat. Sometimes I just say things.

[A]

Oh, fuck. Yeah, I've been. I've been. I got some. I got some weight issues going on and.

[B]

Weight issues. Body weight.

[A]

Some body weight, man.

[B]

Body image and physical health issues.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Put on some weight, and then I put on some more weight, and I'm just not doing anything about it because I already feel like it's. It's too late. I feel defeated. So the, like, six or seven months ago, I went up a pant size. Not a big deal. But I've been, hey, is it not a big deal? Turns out it is to me. I've been the same pant size for over 20 years, since I lost all the weight when I was young and big and then lost the weight. I have been that pant size from then on. And then I went up a pant size six or seven months ago. Did not want to. Kicking and screaming, you know what I mean? Like, I kept trying to wear the same pants.

[B]

Really hard for you to get rid of those old pants, too.

[A]

I remember. Oh, man. Yeah, they sat in my closet because I was like, I'll be back for you. Yeah, I'm coming. Daddy's coming back. Don't worry.

[B]

Sit here.

[A]

Hey, he's not.

[B]

They're like, we're not elastic.

[A]

I don't know what.

[B]

No, pants don't talk. And if they did, they'd be nicer than that. They would be.

[A]

Denim's pretty stiff. Hey, so. So I got rid of the old pants, bought all new pants, and was like, all right, this is your size now.

[B]

Do you want to say the size?

[A]

I went from a 32 to a 34.

[B]

All right. I haven't been a 34 since. I'm not exaggerating. Seventh grade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't want to make this about me, but, you know, shut the up. Sorry. I'm so sorry. You're not feeling good. Let's talk about it.

[A]

And this is why I feel foolish, because I know it's not.

[B]

Anyways, you don't want to finish that sentence, huh?

[A]

Because I know that I'm. It's not really damaging my health right now. Like, I'm not at any risk. Like, I just went to the doctor, and like, every. Like, all my levels are perfect. They're not just fine or good. They are perfect. So it's not like I'm like, oh, man. I'm just really. And it's not like I'm in a Danger to myself or my environment. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not like, bedridden or anything. You know what I mean? Like depression. Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wait, so it's like. Yeah, I. I understand.

[B]

Can you have one without the other?

[A]

What?

[B]

Can you have the depression if you weren't so focused on your weight?

[A]

Mmm. I'd find a way.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. So also, I had a joke, but you were talking, so could you go back and talk about your levels again, please?

[A]

Oh, yeah. They're not. They're not good or fine. They're perfect.

[B]

All right. You went and saw Dr. Mom, her perfect boy.

[A]

All right.

[B]

It's pretty good, right?

[A]

It's pretty good how perfect you are.

[B]

All right, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He just pinched my cheeks and was like, you're doing great.

[B]

You're perfect.

[A]

Are you really a doctor? It was in the parking lot anyway,

[B]

so I know that guy.

[A]

I went up a pant size, and then I've been dealing with that. I'm like, this is. This is who you are now. And.

[B]

Okay. And then your pant size is a big defining personality trait you find as

[A]

somebody who grew up with weight issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I grew up with weight issues. Yeah, yeah. And how do you feel about your weight when it fluctuates and things?

[B]

I mean, not great, but I don't find that my clothes changing sizes is a defining factor of who I am.

[A]

What about the value or anything like that?

[B]

The value of you?

[A]

No, like the way people look at you or treat you or anything like that?

[B]

I don't know. I don't think so. I've always. I've always been bigger. I've never been, like, thin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, even when I'm, like, thin and in shape, I'm 265.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like so. No, it affects my self esteem, it affects my confidence, but I don't find it to be a defining factor of who I am. So when you say, this is who I am now, I don't relate to that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a different path. Because I was tiny as a kid, then got big, was treated very differently by not only family, but kids at school and everything else. So. And then lost the weight, got small again, and was treated very differently after that. My family and people. So it's like, so feeling a little bigger now puts me back in, like, that middle ground again of being, like, the big kid.

[B]

So you're.

[A]

Which was. Which was treated with shame and. And neglect. And then, you know, all the things, all the negative things.

[B]

So You're. You're basically in a place. What I'm hearing is you're just assuming this is how people are going to start treating you now.

[A]

Yeah, got it. Yeah. And so when I say, this is who I am now, it's. It's going back to, like, oh, yeah, I'm just. I'm back to just the fat kid, and nobody's gonna want to hang out with me. Nobody's gonna want to date me. Everybody is talking about me. Everybody. You know, like, that kind of stuff where it's just like. Like I mentioned about, like, going back home to see my family. Like, I did have those thoughts about, like, when I left, but they were like, he got big because that's how my family talks about. Yeah, so.

[B]

Because you're 34 now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, the point of this is I went up a pant size, and I was like, all right, this is bothering me. And now those pants are getting tight.

[B]

36 is on its way, and would you buy a 36?

[A]

You're gonna have to buy them for my funeral.

[B]

I'm not going. I can't do that.

[A]

I'm kidding. Set me on fire. Big fire. So I. Oh, my God. So I'm already feeling defeated.

[B]

Yeah. You're not even the fattest guy on this podcast. You're such a.

[A]

Sorry. These are my feelings.

[B]

It's okay. You're allowed to have them. It's just funny in my head. God, everyone's going like, this is the thing people know you the most from, and you're not the fat guy.

[A]

I'm getting there.

[B]

Hey, if you overtake me, I'll. I'll bake you a treat. Anyways, I know in my head I'm like, don't make this about you. But as I hear you talk, I'm like, dude, this guy. Yeah.

[A]

And that's why I feel like it's full. Like, I know that again. Like, it's not like a. Again. I'm not at any health risk right now or anything like that. It's just all in my fucking feels.

[B]

Yeah. Pure vanity.

[A]

I'm trying to decide if vanity is there, but it's more about shame than vanity.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyways.

[B]

Yeah, I interrupted you. We got off track. That's my fault.

[A]

You're okay. So, yeah, I'm.

[B]

Open your eyes.

[A]

I feel like I want to. Let me be in my little fat cave.

[B]

The fat cave.

[A]

Little. Little Mikey. Little Big Mikey wants to just do the fat cave.

[B]

Just chocolate bats.

[A]

That sounds delicious.

[B]

There's bats Filled with Reese's peanut butter, buddy.

[A]

Don't tease me.

[B]

The fat cave is so funny. Okay, get back on track. Close your eyes.

[A]

Anyway, so I'm feeling defeated. And here's the thing. I. Logically, I know these things. Emotionally, it's hard. So, like, I'm feeling like it's already too late. I'm feeling like, oh, well, you did it.

[B]

It's too late for what?

[A]

To get in better shape or to do anything about it or to start eating better or start exercising to make a difference. It feels like there is. No matter what I do, I. It's already. The damage has been done. Like, you did it.

[B]

It's a permanent state.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You did it, man. You're in your 40s and you're fat and you're fucking bald and here you are. So congratulations, dude. You did it. And that shame and that hate and that like self negative self talk is just like so overwhelming and it, it's just outweighing the logic of being like, hey, we could easily turn. Like, this is like a three week project. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, it's not.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, just.

[B]

Do you believe that you could just

[A]

not three weeks, but you know what I mean?

[B]

Like, hey, some small changes would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would lead to big things.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But instead I'm just thinking I'm. Big things leading to bigger things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm having a real hard time getting over that feeling of being defeated. And so we talked about self sabotage getting in the way of that. And he said, he said, can I ask you, how much of self sabotage do you think gets in the way for you? And I said, oh, 95.

[B]

It's times like this you gotta tag me in, you gotta come get me.

[A]

I was honest. I said 95%.

[B]

You lied.

[A]

Is it a hundred?

[B]

It is. It's just north of 95. It's just north of 95, my boy. Sorry. Okay. 95.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

You think it's 100, buddy. Fucking kidding me. Yeah, buddy. I spent so much time today because you and I talked a little bit this morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the, the recurring looping thought in my head because one thing I've been focusing on with our relationship is not. Is not holding you accountable, not trying to understand things like that because that causes conflict with us. Yeah. So recently when, when we have conversations, I try to just listen and, you know, share something. If I have you try to ask, hey, I have a thought if you're interested. Yeah. But today, yeah, I just had this looping recurring thought of, like, why, man? He just refuses to get out of his own way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Some in, you know, all. It might not be a hundred, but.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It feels like that for me today in reflection of.

[A]

Yeah. What we talked about today is what not share. It was just the feeling of being burnt out and the energy that goes along with putting some of this stuff into action. And I. I went to Costco.

[B]

Open your eyes. I open your eyes when you talk about Costco.

[A]

I give you my fucking. Went to Costco.

[B]

Close your eyes. Talk to papa.

[A]

Let me go to sleep, Papa.

[B]

About the hot dogs and the pizza.

[A]

Oh, buddy. So I want.

[B]

I love the Costco food court.

[A]

So good. Dude, you should go after this.

[B]

The cookie's overrated. I'm going to say it.

[A]

I wear sweatpants. Let's go.

[B]

Kirkland brand.

[A]

Whatever you want. Just feed me.

[B]

I will say Costco. Ditch the chocolate chip cookie. Bring back the churro, and I'm done. Ooh. The chocolate chip cookie is overrated.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Too much dark chocolate. We need some semi sweet and some milk. Some milk chocolate and some semi.

[A]

Yeah, real dry.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

It's not as good as the churro. I'm so sorry. You were at Costco?

[A]

I was at. I. Well, kind of. I'd made a plan to go to Costco. I looked up some recipes to make.

[B]

What kind of recipes?

[A]

Well, there was, like, this steak bite. Crock pit. Crock pot recipe with potatoes and. And steak bites and. And some. And some broth and, like. Yeah, I was like, oh, that looks great.

[B]

What is a steak bite?

[A]

It bites a steak.

[B]

So you buy a steak and, like, cube it up.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. It looked really good. And there was a couple chicken things in there and some roasted vegetable. Anyway, some. Some stuff. And then I was listening to a couple people on Tick Tock about, like, protein things that you can buy, like, snacks to have around the house, like these chicken sticks and stuff. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna go to Costco.

[B]

Let me get my chicken on the skewer.

[A]

No, no. Like. Like, snap into a slim gym, only their protein chicken stick. I don't know, dude.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I'm new to the whole.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Protein world.

[B]

Yeah. I thought you might be allergic to it for a while.

[A]

I just. I didn't give a. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We counted how much protein you eat in a day, and it was like, 40 grams.

[A]

Yeah, I just. I always associated that stuff with, like, bodybuilder kind of where people Are like, counting macros, and they're looking at the protein intake and stuff. And I'm like, oh, I don't. I'm not in that world at all. That is lost on me.

[B]

Nutrition.

[A]

Just counting macros and things. Like, I don't. I don't.

[B]

Fair enough.

[A]

So anyways, I had a plan to go to Costco, and I got ready

[B]

to go, and I drove to Costco. Car, bike, car. See, that's serious business.

[A]

Serious business.

[B]

You're gonna be bringing some stuff home.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was gonna go to Trader Joe's after that. I had a whole. Had a whole afternoon plan.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gathering. And I got to Costco. Literally pulled into fucking Costco.

[B]

Into a parking spot.

[A]

Into the parking lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I turned right, and then I went to Ross and TJ Maxx and just looked around and didn't really want to do anything. And then I thought, hey, there's an in and out in this parking lot. I'm gonna do that. And I went in and out, and I got a burger and then came home.

[B]

No other stuff.

[A]

Oh, I did get it. I went and I thought, you know what? Fuck it. We're having a burger. Let's get a donut. And I got a donut.

[B]

Maple round.

[A]

Maple round. When I came home,

[B]

I didn't speak any of this. Just walked in with some new pillows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I said, oh, you finally got king pillows for your to fit your bed. And you went, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know you were on the verge of suicide.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna end it all at the Costco.

[B]

Yeah. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this.

[A]

I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using BetterHelp. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out because that has happened, I've been able to switch therap therapist with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

Not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now. Never.

[A]

Never.

[B]

You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely. Not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[A]

Yeah. And this is where self. Self sabotage comes in. And we were talking about, like, you know, like, my body is, like, screaming for change. And. But again, there's this, like, heavier voice. No pun intended. This heavier voice that is just, like, there is no point. We've arrived. Like, there is no getting out of this.

[B]

Arrived? Where does this voice think you've arrived?

[A]

Just, again, like. Just like, there's nothing we can do. You're old and fat and bald now, so, like, have fun. This is. This is your life. I'm like, oh, okay. I don't want to be. Well, nothing we can do. And there's. I'm screaming. Yes, there is.

[B]

That.

[A]

We just need. And this other voice is like, let's just lay down.

[B]

Whose voice is it?

[A]

It's mine.

[B]

Both of them.

[A]

Definitely the screaming one. I don't know who the other voice

[B]

is,

[A]

But it brings me back around to this idea of, like, feeling overwhelmed. I am so drained. I have no give a. You know, I came back from tour straight into, like, having to catch up with us with the pod and also, like, all the book orders, you know, and things were here, and, like, the tour alone was so. It was fun, don't get me wrong. But it's. It's a very socially draining thing. I am surrounded the entire time. If it's not on stage, around an audience, it is with the other guys on tour, and we're traveling and we're in motion. So I'm just. I don't get any moments to myself, really, on that tour. And so, you know, going from three weeks of that to coming home to just going right into, like, not even work mode, but like catch up mode. I'm so burnt out and drained. And so that also goes into the energy of giving a fuck about like, hey, let's make these changes or let's do this or let you know. It's like with like, I'm like, the Costco thing is just that, right? Like, it's not just as easy as going to Costco and getting groceries because my brain with the ADHD sees every step. So I see I got to go to Costco. I got to make sure that I get everything that I need. I got to make sure I get the right stuff. I got to make sure I don't that up and bring home something I'm not supposed to or get the right thing or whatever. And then I actually have to like make time to make whatever the I'm trying to make, which then involves like not that up and going through the steps and making sure I cook everything. And then the anxiety of like, did

[B]

I cook it right?

[A]

Did I do this? And then the actual prep of the food, the actual making of the food and then like putting everything away and the cleanup and all that stuff. And then like I see all of that instead of just seeing let's go to Costco and get groceries. And so when I'm pulling into the driveway, I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that. I don't have the energy for that. I have the energy to go to fucking In N Out and get a burger real quick. I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna go home and I just need a break and I refuse to give it to myself. And that's more the self sabotage.

[B]

What does a break look like, buddy?

[A]

I want to go somewhere where I'm

[B]

asking what you want. I don't want the ideal.

[A]

A break is. A break is not belonging to anybody or anything. There are no responsibilities. Nobody needs anything from me. Yeah. Just belonging. Whether it is to. And that's as little as like responding like that's belonging.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I don't want to belong to anybody or anything for just. Just a little, just a little bit, man. I would love to just. And that includes even like my phone or scrolling or anything like that. I want to go and disappear somewhere and just be and not worry about what the fuck Donald Trump is doing or my fucking bank account or if this email that came in or doing the show or fucking editing that. I just want to be. And that feels impossible. Yeah. What the. Okay.

[B]

What? I know that look.

[A]

What do you want?

[B]

I just. Yeah, I think you're bullshitting yourself.

[A]

Okay, tell me what I want.

[B]

I'm gonna say it more clear. I think you're bullshitting yourself.

[A]

Okay, tell me what I want then, since you know.

[B]

No, I'm sure that's what you want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just don't understand why you've convinced yourself that's a destination.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

You can shut off your phone anytime you want. We took a three week break from the podcast at the end of the year.

[A]

Yeah, great.

[B]

Yeah. Everything you just described, you can do anytime.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

That is not true.

[B]

Yes, it is. You can just be anywhere. You have this preconceived notion that you have to go somewhere.

[A]

Oh, I see. I see that argument. Okay, Yeah, I understand that for sure. But the other stuff, it's that sense of responsibility. I have to turn that off.

[B]

That sounds like a learned thing. No.

[A]

Yeah, but how do you turn it off when you're surrounded by it?

[B]

I don't understand how you're surrounded by it.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Explain to me what. What does it mean to be surrounded by a sense of responsibility?

[A]

If I'm here at the house, then I have the I'm surrounded with the front spot. I should be either editing or I should be reaching out, or I should be doing this, or we should be doing the show. We should be doing. I should be doing more. And who's.

[B]

Who's putting that on you?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Could.

[A]

I couldn't tell you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, the per. Whoever's putting that on you, if you can leave them here, then you can escape it.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I thought maybe you were the person putting that on you.

[A]

Oh, I would never do that to me? Yeah.

[B]

So no matter where you go, you're not escaping a goddamn thing, you're just lying to yourself.

[A]

No, I would never do that to me.

[B]

Yeah. Have you ever once gone somewhere and shut off your phone and didn't scroll and didn't bring your laptop and didn't work ever?

[A]

You know, I came close in Seattle.

[B]

So that's a no. Okay. Sounded like a no. I was reading between the lines. You can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[A]

I did a really good job in Seattle. I was really proud of myself.

[B]

Good.

[A]

It wasn't 100%, but it was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Up there. I read books, I went hiking. I got out. It was nice.

[B]

It's great. You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't. I just. It sounds like more self Sabotage to me, you're just, this is what I need, but I just can't do it.

[A]

Yes, you can.

[B]

You have a tattoo in LA on Monday. No, you're going there Saturday. You're gonna have a couple days.

[A]

Yeah, there it is.

[B]

But you've told yourself, well, I'm in la, I should be visiting. I should be. Did it. Okay, you took it away again. Yeah,

[A]

yeah.

[B]

I don't. This is what I've been doing all day. I'm like, get out of your way, dude. What is it? Yeah, you went on tour and you're like, I think this tour is.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's going to be a nice restart. I'm going to come back motivated. Are you out of your mind? Hey, how'd that work? Yeah, no, it exhausted you. Duh. And now you're like, ah, if I just go get a couple days away, I'm going to come back, hey, buddy, it's got to come from you. You keep searching for this thing that's going to just install motivation and discipline. Like, you have to do it. And escape is never going to be the answer. You can never just be. If you're constantly running, you don't know what you're running from or what you're running to. You're just constantly running.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did I say anything that you disagree with or have I overstepped by saying any of that?

[A]

No, I was just. I was. I was asking myself the same question today. Like, what are you running to? Like, what is the. What is. Where are we going? And I was trying to figure out, because things have changed for me so much in. In the light of, like, I've had a couple conversations recently about career stuff with friends from the past.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. Every once in a while run into somebody who doesn't. He doesn't get that I don't want the same things that I used to want, you know? And so I had to ask myself today, like, yeah, what is. What do you want? And what is the goal? What are you running towards? And because you're right, I'm running because if I'm not running, if I'm not in motion, then what will people think? What will people think of me? Where's my value? What is. What am I doing?

[B]

Like, what are you going to think of you?

[A]

You know what's fucked up? I automatically just went to disappointment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm really disappointed in myself

[B]

presently. Or you would be if you stopped running presently. Yeah. Yeah. Why is that fucked up?

[A]

Because life is good, man. I've had a Good run? I've had a good fucking run. I've been on tv. I've written books. I've been. I've been a lot of places. I've met a lot of people. A lot of important people.

[B]

Oh, man, what it must be to be important. What defines an important person to you?

[A]

I just mean, like. I mean, I've. I've talked to a lot of people.

[B]

Mm, you definitely talk to a lot of people.

[A]

I just mean when I'm talking about important people, I'm talking, like. I've had conversations with people who are high up in. In, like, religions. I've talked to people that are high up in politics. I've talked to people who are high up in the entertainment field and things like that. Like, those are important people. I've had important people seek me out in my.

[B]

Are they important to you?

[A]

Yeah, some of them.

[B]

That's good then.

[A]

But. And that's what I mean. Like, so what is the disappointment? What the fuck are we doing? Like, you had a. You've had a great fucking run. Like, why can't I. Why can't I take that seriously?

[B]

What do you mean, take it seriously?

[A]

Why doesn't it matter? Why do I still feel like I'm not doing those things or haven't done those things? You know, What's it gonna take? I guess that's the. That's what it keeps going back around to is, like, when is it real? For me.

[B]

When is what real?

[A]

Happiness, Fulfillment.

[B]

You think that's a destination?

[A]

No, but I think it's a feeling.

[B]

How long does it stay for?

[A]

I barely ever get it.

[B]

I asked you how long it stays for.

[A]

Not long.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep. Do you think or feel that that's a you problem? Do you think most people are experiencing happiness in large quantities? Frequently.

[A]

I don't know if happiness is the right word, but contentment. I think a lot of people are content with their lives or based on what. Whatever they have going. Some people really wanted a family, and they have a family now.

[B]

Or when you say you think most people are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Content most of the time. What are you basing that on?

[A]

I don't know. Conversations and observations. When I'm out in the world. Okay. You think everybody's miserable.

[B]

Everybody's miserable. I think. Well, for me, contentment is kind of my overall goal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've talked here. I don't think. I'm not convinced happiness is real. I try to enjoy. I try to embrace moments of joy when they happen, but contentment is really what I'm Aiming for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it's really hard to achieve.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think most people are content.

[A]

Mmm.

[B]

I think that's why people are constantly buying things. I think that's why people are constantly changing jobs. I think that's why people are doing a lot of things. Yeah. People want families and have families.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think a lot of those people didn't know what kids were going to actually be like and don't really like having kids and got married to maybe the wrong person.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And really hate their job. I think that's the majority of people.

[A]

Oh, the majority is.

[B]

Yeah. We don't live in a society where contentment is encouraged or is it really even shown as an option?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think. Yeah. I. I've said this to a million times. You got to get off your phone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you have to stop comparing yourself to people because. Yeah. Again, you. I've said this to you a million times, too. You don't know what you think you do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You just don't.

[A]

Yeah. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight.

[B]

You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[A]

All right. Okay. Are you really.

[B]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University, found some classes, bro.

[A]

Oh, you fancy.

[B]

Now I'm out here. He.

[A]

He's a schoolboy.

[B]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[A]

I mean, I love to learn.

[B]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[A]

I need to. I need to do it more officially.

[B]

You never learned a thing anyway, if you want to check out Snhu and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career. Do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info. Start some learning. You're welcome. When you observe people and you think, like, they have what I want, whether it be the feeling or the moment or whatever.

[A]

Oh, okay, maybe that's. I'm not looking at them as comparison. I'm just observing them as, like, oh, they seem.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they seem a certain way, which is what you're saying you want. Right. Contentment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when you see that, do you ever have the thought of, like, I wonder if that is what it looks like.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So you get it.

[A]

Yeah. I just have a little bit more faith in humanity than you do. It seems like.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think. Yeah.

[B]

I'm much more of a realist and. Well, you know what? I don't think so at all. I think you're bullshitting yourself again.

[A]

I think majority is a strong. Is a strong guess, I think. I think there's a lot of people who are definitely unhappy. Duh. And definitely always. I mean, comparing and trying to change, obviously. Yes. But majority, I think, is where I. Is where you lose me.

[B]

Oh, I stand very firmly in that belief.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We haven't come up in a society or world that in core, encourages fulfillment.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I agree with that.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So many people would have to be breaking the mold of what we're. Oh, there's no way.

[A]

Absolutely. I mean, every. Every.

[B]

So I don't understand how you agree with that. But then you can't get. You think majority is such a big word. That's confusing for me. But we're not debating, so it doesn't matter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who gives a. Yeah.

[A]

Who cares? Yeah, yeah,

[B]

yeah. I think you're bullshitting yourself. I think you do. You want to know what I think? I think you. Any opportunity you can to feel bad about yourself, I think you take it. So I think you see a kid with his dad eating a hot dog, laughing, you're like, my dad's dead and I don't have a hot dog. And all this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Meanwhile, as soon as you turn around, he's choking to death. But you don't. You like race. I think you just. Anything you can use to, like, knock yourself down, I think you do it. And I've said this million times, I think you're addicted to misery. I really want to be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

I'm really trying to think about comparison. And if I'm. I think you're right about a percentage of that, where it's like, yeah, I will do that to a certain degree, but that's not what I'm doing all the time when I'm seeing those things. And sometimes it just hits me in my field, sometimes I do see a dad with somebody, and I'm like, man, that would have been cool. But I think as I get Older. The comparison has switched now to it's me versus me. And so I'm seeing a lot of things where it's like, you should have done this or you should have done that, or like, you. You know, and so I'm. It's not even like I wish I had what they had, what they have. If I'm seeing other people, it's. I wish I. I wish I would have made different decisions and I. Maybe I would have what they have or I would be somewhere different or whatever. And so it's me versus me now versus instead of like, the other comparison. And that you find that be.

[B]

To be productive.

[A]

Also not great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But anyway, so I'm gonna. What's going on with you?

[B]

Well, what's going on with me? My girl and I have. We have couples counseling on Monday. So next week should have something to share. But I do have something for you. Yeah. So I've been going to these. I don't know. I don't even know what's good. It's a support group or a meeting or whatever for the adult children of emotionally immature parents. We did the worksheets a couple weeks ago, and I learned a term that made me think of my buddy, maybe Ken Gar. Maybe think of my little boy.

[A]

Yeah, let me hear it.

[B]

Emotional contagion is that. That is when. Well, there's. There's a couple. There's a couple ways to, like, define it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But in the context of this group or this book, adult children of emotionally immature parents, it is essentially when your emotions. You don't have. You weren't taught, or you don't have the skill or capability to communicate your emotions. So they become huge and they spread. They take over the space, they take over the room. It's on your. Everybody knows what you're feeling because you're doing the thing. And another way to define emotional contagion is mimicking people's emotions and expressions, which is very common in commisery. A lot of kids learn to do it with their parents. Mom's having big emotions. She obviously isn't going to communicate with you. Hey, I'm experiencing X, Y, and Z. I just need a couple minutes. She's doing it. You're picking it up. Maybe you start mimicking that. Maybe you, as an adult, mimic it. You can't say, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I just. I need to do this. Like, you're huffing and puffing. You're doing. You got the big. The black cloud. So I thought of you, and I was thinking, especially like, when you're. You're always, you know, talking about me, and you're like. You'll be like, yeah, I have a lot of anxiety in my body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, what. What am I supposed to do? Whereas you, you would be around the house, like, acting out this anxiety so people understand, and it makes sense to me why that is how you see emotion now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like, when I'm like, I think I need to go to the hospital. You're like. You're not wailing in pain. I'm like, what does that do? Yeah, I'm in a lot of pain. I'm listen. In a lot of pain. Do you hear me? And you're like. But you're not even, like, screaming. And I'm like, oh. Like, you don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't register. Like, you need to see and feel the emotion to understand it, which is interesting.

[A]

Yeah, That's true.

[B]

I know. Thoughts.

[A]

Yeah. I'm trying to see if something I would, like, push back on is when I am acting a certain way, I think I'm being cool. Like, these past couple days, I've been in a funk. I'm like, oh, I've been keeping it cool.

[B]

No.

[A]

I'm like, they have no idea. I'm so cool.

[B]

Even though every time I see you go, you good, man? You all right?

[A]

And I tell you I'm good.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You lie to me. Yeah.

[A]

Today I was honest. Today I told you, hey, this is what's going on.

[B]

But that's like. That's the point of what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is because you don't want to be vulnerable and be like, I'm having a hard time. You go, I'm cool. But you act.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're putting it out there without. And then just be like, no, no, I'm okay. And then everyone's like, are you?

[A]

Yeah, but I don't know I'm doing that.

[B]

Oh, I don't think you're doing on purpose, but.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You're doing it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I thought that's what you were talking. Like, you. I'm mimicking this on a purpose thing. And I'm like, oh, that's not. I think in my head, I'm like, I'm being cool. They have no idea I'm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a funk.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Nobody.

[A]

Well, I think.

[B]

I think subconsciously, you know exactly what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because I don't want to. God damn it.

[B]

No. Open your eyes and tell me.

[A]

I caught it before it came out. I caught it.

[B]

Yeah. Hey. Playing it cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So cool. The way that you're. Yeah. Your head's down. Your face is buried in your hands. I couldn't tell that you had a big thing.

[A]

Yeah. I didn't want to. I didn't want to bother nobody.

[B]

Yeah, we know. Hey, you stupid. We know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you bother somebody with something as stupid as your feelings, what happens?

[A]

Oh, yeah. You're not gonna hang out with me. This guy's a bummer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Did you ever bother your mom with your feelings, or did she somehow just pick up on it like you were not being as cool as you thought? Maybe. Did she ever.

[A]

She'd pick up on a few things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you. Do you remember ever going to her and just telling her how you feel,

[A]

or was she always. Yeah. Yeah. I think it comes around later because, like, Mom's always accepting, but other people aren't, you know?

[B]

Freshy.

[A]

Yeah. My mom's not gonna leave. My mom's not gonna turn her back on me.

[B]

What'd you do at the mall?

[A]

Hey, I caught it.

[B]

Hey. Okay. What'd you do at the mall?

[A]

Temporary. Okay. Listen.

[B]

Yeah. Are you sure? Are you certain that the most important person in your life wouldn't constantly turn their back on you to teach you a lesson? Are we sure?

[A]

That didn't.

[B]

How bad did that hurt when that just happened? Was that rough?

[A]

I just put it together, you know?

[B]

Yeah. She wouldn't turn her back on me. My mom would leave me to the point of tears if I didn't listen. Whoops. Yeah. I'm sorry, man.

[A]

We'll talk about this another time. But here's a little. A little treat. A little treat for later. We talked about anger in therapy, and I was telling him stories about past relationships and about my mother and things. And, you know when you share stories and your therapist can't hide their reaction? Like, this dude was just like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The whole time. Just faces.

[B]

The whole time. Yeah.

[A]

At the end of it, he's like. He's like, you shared a lot, but what you didn't talk about is anger. I know. I'm not angry.

[B]

Never.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said, why aren't. Why aren't you angry at, you know, this person or this person or your mom or whatever? And I said when it came to, like, past relationships, I was like, oh, well, I, I. I'm not angry because I know that I couldn't have been. I'm not perfect, and I know that I couldn't have been Fun to be around. And he was like, okay. And I was like, same with. Not the same with my mom, but it's different. It's like, it's empathy for my mother. Like, she doesn't. She's. She knows what she knows because it got passed down to her and, like, all these stuff. So, like, these people that, you know, I'm finding out later, the treatment wasn't great with me, they get, like an empathy pass instead of anger. And. I'm learning about different kinds of anger. So you'll be happy to know soon I should be mad at my mom and we'll talk about it.

[B]

You're mad at her with what kind of anger?

[A]

The loving kind. And that means, like, I don't want to fist fight my mom, but there's definitely anger there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, no. Clear it up. Why? You're a good boy, and I just

[A]

know that you think, like, loving anger, like, maybe. I know you're big on words, and so I wanted to.

[B]

Clear real quick. How do you know what I think?

[A]

Because you tell me all the time.

[B]

You don't know what I think, bro. Hey, real quick, listen up. Turn your headphones on. You don't know what you think. You know?

[A]

So when I said loving anger there, what did you think?

[B]

I thought that you were doing a bit of, like, the saint thing. Oh, I'm gonna be angry that I love her so much.

[A]

Oh, no, no. Yeah. No. Yeah.

[B]

I think it's funny that even being angry, you're like, yep, I love her. We know. We know you love her, and we know she loved you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you can be mad at her and love her at the same time.

[A]

Yeah. I'm learning that.

[B]

Get you an accelerated program.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.