Logically Speaking, You're Being Very Emotional | #129

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Secondhand Therapy

Episode #129: Logically Speaking, You're Being Very Emotional
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Release Date: May 11, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Louie and Michael dig deep into the interplay between logic and emotion in personal growth, relationships, and therapy. Using their signature humor and honesty, they unpack recent therapy sessions—solo and couples—and explore how their default modes ("yellow" for logical and "purple" for emotional) affect everything from friendship dynamics to self-image and boundaries. The heart of the conversation centers on striving for the “green” or “wise mind”: the sweet spot where rational thought and authentic feeling meet. Listeners get a candid glimpse at the messy, funny, and often frustrating process of healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Check-Ins and Physical/Mental Health Updates

• Louie’s continuous frustrations with ongoing physical health issues (00:15-01:08), and the toll it takes on his outlook and anxiety.
• Banter about medical costs and insurance: “I got an updated hospital bill … $12,000” (01:20) underscores the ongoing reality of healthcare stress in their lives.

2. The “Yellow” (Logic) vs. “Purple” (Emotion) Dynamic

• The Venn Diagram of Mind:
  • Louie revisits a tool from therapy: emotional (purple) and logical (yellow) sides with “green” (wise mind) as their intersection (09:10-10:46).
  • Louie identifies strongly with the logical/yellow side and admits: “Why would I want to change colors when yellow is the best?” (11:16)
  • His therapist’s analogy: logic often talks down emotion instead of listening, which can lead to ignoring valid emotional signals, especially under stress or threat (11:28-12:30).
• Relationship Patterns:
  • Louie notes his therapist has "never had two yellows or two purples get together in relationships—always mix-matched" (12:30-12:42).
  • Heartfelt joke: “We’re meant to be. Oh boy. We are meant to be, my guy. You’re stuck with me” (12:46-12:53).

Notable Quote

“So your spidey sense is going off, and you go, everything’s fine. Nothing’s happening. I’m okay … and that’s why you got to get to your green, dog, because you just be fucking yourself up.” —Louie (12:18)

3. Authenticity, Vulnerability & Hypocrisy

• Louie’s realization: He believes Michael chooses to be emotional, but he himself didn’t choose to be logical—labeling it hypocritical (14:14-15:19).
• Admits authenticity is blocked if he can’t access “green.”
  • Therapist asks: “How can you come at any moment with genuine authenticity if you’re not in the green?”
  • Louie: “Didn’t like it, 'cause she’s also right.” (16:12-16:49)
• They discuss how true authenticity is rooted in vulnerability and feelings (17:13-17:57).

Notable Quote

“For me to consider myself an authentic person and either not having the capability to engage my purple or choosing not to — I’m not as authentic as I think I am, and that is upsetting.” —Louie (17:30)

4. Shame, Regret, and Childhood Conditioning

• Contrasting relationships with shame:
  • Louie: “Shame’s part of life … If I feel ashamed of something, yeah, man, you should be ashamed of that … That’s okay.” (20:18)
  • Michael: His shame is more about character attacks, while Louie’s is situational (23:03-24:39).
  • Michael: “For you it might be situational where you’re like, yeah, I fucked up, so I’ll do better next time. Where I’m like, oh, I’m a fuck up. Oh, it’s defining.” (24:00-24:13)

5. Control, Anxiety, and Planning Scenarios

• Michael confesses he needs all the info before agreeing to plans—a control mechanism rooted in anxiety (29:26-30:20).
• Louie distills it: “Could I sum that up in one word? Control?” (30:14-30:21)
• Anecdote about the David Sedaris reading: Michael tries to prepare Louie based on previous experience, but things go off-script, triggering anxiety and shame about perceived “failure” as a host/planner (27:22-34:43).
  • Michael: “I want you to have a good time. So you’ll go with me again. Means you’ll leave.” (34:45-35:03)
• Louie teases: “You ever have me in line for two hours again, I’m leaving.” (35:17-35:22)

6. Reluctance & Self-Sabotage

• Louie reflects on how his logical “yellow” side can lead to declining experiences (concerts, social events) he’d potentially enjoy—another way logic can be a barrier (38:10-39:57).
  • “Have you ever been somewhere that you’re like, oh God, it’s gonna fuckin’ suck, and enjoyed yourself? … All the time.” (38:28-39:02)
• This realization feels “revelatory,” not negative. Louie sees now that he’s often his own obstacle (40:29-40:57).

7. Identity, Boundaries, and “Chasing” Roles

• Michael discusses how, after shifting away from stand-up and acting post-pandemic, he changed his physical appearance (tattoos, shaved head) as a deliberate signal to be less “castable” and end the cycle of being the “product” for others (42:17-47:00).
  • “I changed my avatar on purpose so that they … couldn’t use me” (43:36-43:47)
• His therapist calls this a way of running away instead of setting healthy boundaries (49:10-50:19).
  • Michael: “I never saw it like that. I saw it as setting a boundary … taking control. [But] just hiding.” (50:32-50:56)

8. Caretaking, Childhood, and Core Relationship Patterns

• Michael brings up how being “the caretaker” for his mother in childhood shaped all later relationships and even career decisions.
  • “As long as I am what they need me to be, then everything is fine and I am safe.” (56:49-57:01)
• Louie asks: “Do you feel safe?”
  • Michael: “I have never felt safe.” (57:24-57:28)
• Coping has been survival-based, never actually achieving the feeling of safety—just “buying a few more days.” (57:54-58:24)

9. Homework: Practicing Authenticity in Small Ways

• Michael’s current therapy “homework” is to practice small acts of authenticity—like declining a wallet he doesn’t want, rather than passively accepting out of politeness (60:14-64:44).
• This feels huge to him. Admits: “Old me would have taken that wallet … and for the rest of our lives” pretended to like it out of obligation (62:13-63:03).
• Both discuss how their fear of hurting others’ feelings keeps them from being fully honest—including saying no to unwanted plans.

Notable Quote

“Welcome to Purple. … If you invite me hiking and I say ‘no thank you,’ that hurts your feelings sometimes? Of course you think people are going to be hurt if you say no — because you’re hurt when they say no.” —Louie (65:23-65:49)

10. The Mutual Misreading: Yellow vs. Purple

• Both spend significant energy anticipating how the other will respond (expecting emotionality from Michael, logic from Louie).
• Realize: This anticipation is a barrier, preventing them from finding that “green” common ground (66:13-69:07).
  • Michael: “I’m not expecting you to be purple at all. I’m always expecting you to be yellow. And so it’s hard to find green between us when … we’re both coming to the conversation as, like, I already know what this is going to be.” (70:57-71:34)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Louie, on authenticity:

  “I’m not as authentic as I think I am, and that is upsetting.” (17:30)

• Michael, on caretaking:

  “As long as I can be what they need me to be, then everything is fine and I am safe.” (56:49-57:01) “I have never felt safe.” (57:26)

• On changing identity for self-preservation:

  “I changed my avatar on purpose so that they … couldn’t use me.” (43:36)

• Michael, on micro-authenticity:

  “My coffin will just have a sign that just says, leave whatever you don’t need and take a thank you note.” (62:13)

• Louie, poking fun at the process:

  “You ever have me in line for two hours again, I’m leaving. … Unless we’re at With Love Always, I can do a line of With Love Always.” (35:17, 35:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Physical/Mental Health Check-In & Therapy Disclaimers: 00:15–05:16
• Venn Diagram/Logic vs. Emotion Model: 09:10–12:30
• Authenticity & Wise Mind: 16:12–16:49
• Shame & Childhood Discussion: 20:18–24:39
• David Sedaris Anecdote & Control: 27:22–35:03
• Identity Shift/Performative Roles: 42:17–47:00
• Caretaking and Core Relationship Patterns: 56:04–58:24
• Practicing Authenticity (Wallet Story): 60:14–64:44

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Flow & Style Notes

• The episode balances humor and vulnerability, with both hosts riffing as they share sometimes painful realizations.
• Louie’s deadpan logic and Michael’s emotive openness provide both contrast and chemistry.
• The “yellow/purple/green” shorthand borrowed from therapy adds personality and accessibility to the deep dive into emotion vs. logic.
• Frequent self-deprecation and teasing keep conversations lively but never undercut the sincerity of the insights.

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For Listeners:
If you’ve ever struggled to communicate across emotional/logical lines, or wondered if you’re truly being authentic with those you love, this episode will resonate—offering laughter, honesty, and actionable nudges towards your own “wise mind.”

Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod guess who might be sick again. Jeez. What are you doing, buddy?

[B]

I think it's just allergies because whenever it goes from, like, cold to hot or hot to cold outside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just get lit up. But I gotta tell you, I'm really having a hard time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I am so tired of not feeling good physically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like. It's really starting to wear on me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You've been going through it for like

[B]

a month now, one thing or another.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Thought my appendix was out. Fucking my back was out. I'm like, dude, food poisoning.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Fuck, yeah.

[A]

I'm sorry, bud. Yeah.

[B]

I'm truly at the point. I'm in my head, I'm like, there's something wrong with me. I'm like, I. If I ever get health insurance again, I'm going to go. And they're like, yeah, you have leukemia. It makes sense.

[A]

You haven't been even worse. They're going to be like, you're fine. Yeah, that's worse when you're like, there's something wrong.

[B]

Yeah. Nah, nah, nah. 12 grand. You're good. Go home, you're good.

[A]

Good news. Everything's fine. Hey, that's the worst news. Something's wrong. Find it.

[B]

I got an updated hospital bill. Yeah, we'll talk about it on the shit show.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

Okay. If you want the tale of the $12,000. Oh, we're not even on.

[A]

We're not even on it. Well, let me start here. Okay?

[B]

I'll tell you guys about it on Monday.

[A]

Welcome to the second day of therapy. We want to remind you that we're not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Anyways, if you want to listen to any of those things, go on the Patreon, where you can get ad free episodes and the fucking tea.

[B]

Yeah. If you want to know what's going on with my $12,000 hospital bill.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Sign on up, Daddy.

[A]

Also, if you give a fuck that he has a $12,000 bill, sign up for Patreon.

[B]

He's God. Join Patreon.

[A]

Brother out.

[B]

Help a Brother out.

[A]

Our Patreon is Help a Brother Out Dot com.

[B]

I don't know whose website that is.

[A]

Well, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. Anyways, I was trying to think. I was like, Who's a funny black guy whose website is Help a brother out.com?

[A]

i don't know, but we should buy it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Anyways, going over to Patreon for ad free episodes. You get early access. You get bone. You get after the pod, you get the extra podcast. You get all kinds of stuff over there. You get merch discounts. We go live every once in a while. I'm trying to schedule a little. A little book Q and A thing on there. So if you have my book and you've read my book and you want to yell at me about my book or talk to me about it or do whatever, head on over to Patreon, sign up, because I'm getting ready to

[B]

do a whole why don't you do the book thing publicly?

[A]

Could, hey, buy my book Modern Love and Other Natural disasters. It'[e-mail].

[B]

yeah.

[A]

What else is there? Oh, we have merch.

[B]

We have merch. We got. We got fire, dude, we got some new tees out, and I. I put out a bunch of colors on the existing tees since hoodie season's over. Hoodie season's gone, so a lot of new colors on the tees. A couple new tees get geared up for the summer, dude.

[A]

Yeah. And if you. If you're feeling like you. You want to do some good in your life, head on over to Vasectomy Farms. Is it dot com?

[B]

What else would it be?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know, man.

[B]

You know, what kind of asshole would have a dot net for their business?

[A]

That's an inside joke.

[B]

Go on over to glasshammer.net. yes, receptionfarms.com and we donate a portion of all that to women's reproductive resources. So if you want to get into some philanthropy or if you think women should have any type of rightsectomyfarms.com and if.

[A]

If you want to talk to us about it, you can contact us. All that information is below. And you can send us physical mail, digital mail, whatever you want, text messages, voice memos, all that stuff. Sometimes we talk about it.

[B]

Air.

[A]

Is that all the business we have? I hope so.

[B]

I think that's all the business.

[A]

All the business. I'm in my feels today.

[B]

Yeah, I just walked into the studio and I was like, this is gonna be weird.

[A]

It's funky.

[B]

Well, leukemia, maybe autistic, maybe leukemia. Maybe really bad allergies, maybe. I don't know.

[A]

Well, head on over to Patreon. Help a brother out.

[B]

Help a brother out. You can also Donate. Who's the guy from Key and Peele that's going through it? Not Jordan. Not Jordan Peele. The other one. Keegan Michael Key.

[A]

Keegan, go to help a brother out dot com.

[B]

You can help Keegan Michael Key get out of his marriage alive. I don't know if any of that's true.

[A]

I don't either, but you know, I'd be hearing the rumors.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Do you want to talk mental health now?

[A]

Yeah, I guess. Let's get out of here. Thanks for being here. And we'll see you over on Patreon.

[B]

Hopefully the Patreon. Dude, you know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[A]

I. Okay. Are you really?

[B]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University.

[A]

Oh, you fancy now, bruh.

[B]

I'm out here.

[A]

He. He's a schoolboy.

[B]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[A]

I mean, I. I love to learn.

[B]

Ah, God, he's never learned.

[A]

I need to do it more officially.

[B]

You never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career, do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info. Start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[A]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[B]

They do mediums. They got mediums, right?

[A]

I'll take a large medium.

[B]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, here's what you do. You go to trypsychic source.com/sht10, okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

Talk about my love life.

[A]

Trying to see some. Some. Maybe some road bumps.

[B]

Just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[A]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[B]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Try psychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[A]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[B]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

I want the tea.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back secondhand therapy. And we know that.

[B]

So I had. I had double. Well, I had double therapy this week.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So first I had my solo. My solo monthly check in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the next day I had couples therapy. Which one do you want to talk about? Oh, okay. My solo one.

[A]

Okay. My God.

[B]

I didn't like it. Well, it was fine.

[A]

Did you have stuff adding up because it's been a month?

[B]

No, I feel pretty good. Other than dying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Physically bad. Mentally and emotionally, feeling pretty good.

[A]

Feeling great. Top of the world.

[B]

Yeah. So we. What we got into,

[A]

man?

[B]

I know I've talked about this Venn diagram she showed me before, but we got into this Venn diagram again. Do you know what a Venn diagram is?

[A]

I do. Describe it similar to a pie chart.

[B]

Nope. So a Venn diagram is two circles that overlap, and then the middle is a combo section.

[A]

Right. Three pie charts.

[B]

Well, it'd be two pie charts overlapping. You were close. Assuming. Tell me about a Venn diagram. Edit it out. Do you know, describe it? Nah, too late.

[A]

We're keeping it in. Yeah.

[B]

All right, so there's this Venn diagram, and it's about emotional and logical. So I'm going to be talking in colors.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Emotional is on the yellow side. All right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Daddy's yellow. Wait. Okay, I I it up. Okay. I it up. Keep it in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Logical is on the yellow side.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Daddy's yellow. Okay.

[A]

That's okay. Yes.

[B]

Emotional is on the purple side.

[A]

I thought when you first said. I was like, you gotta fight your therapist. She doesn't know it all.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yellow is logical.

[B]

Purple is emotional, and in the middle is green. And that's your wise mind. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Well, yellow's the best when it comes to people and we know that. Sure.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But here's the thing. That's all. Yellow people are the best.

[A]

Yellow is the best.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm trying to get my green dog.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. How hard is it for you to be green? How hard is it for you to be green?

[B]

What I don't understand. Why would I want to change colors when yellow is the best? Do you understand?

[A]

Hey, I don't understand because I'm purple.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I got a purple heart.

[B]

Let me write it out. In tears. Well, she gave me an example of. About herself, not a specific one. She's like. She's like. Many times in my life I have felt unsafe when I'm with a man for one reason or another. And she's like, in those situations, like, when your spidey sense is going off, that's purple. That's your body. That's a vibe. That's emotions. That's feeling telling you something's not right. Get out of here. And she's like, and what yellow people do. My therapist is also yellow. Yellow people will use yellow. Use logic to quiet the purple. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So your spidey sense is going off, and you go, everything's fine. Nothing's happening. I'm okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why you got to get to your green dog, because you just be fucking yourself up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what else she said? In all her career, she's never had two yellows get together in romantic relationships or two purples.

[A]

Really? Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Always mix match. Isn't that fucking annoying?

[A]

We're meant to be.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

We are meant to be. My guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're stuck with me.

[B]

It's so annoying.

[A]

He'll deaf do us well.

[B]

Leukemia is no. What?

[A]

Stop saying that.

[B]

Something's wrong with me. How have I been fucked up for a month?

[A]

I don't know. Ask your yellow.

[B]

That was your chance to comfort me and you fumbled.

[A]

I did comfort you. I said be logical, you said, I don't know. I said be logical. I said use your yellow.

[B]

You fumbled it. I made it. Who dipped the football in Crisco? Jesus.

[A]

All right, let's try it again. Tell me you're up. I've been.

[B]

Dude. Something's wrong with me for, like, a month.

[A]

Yeah, we all got problems, man. Now how does that feel?

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Now how does that feel when somebody says that to you?

[B]

Feels true. Feels factual.

[A]

You're trash, Baletti.

[B]

But it is true. And then eventually we got into, like. Well, I live with two purple People.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that frustration. And I led myself to the realization that I'm a giant hypocrite.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How so?

[B]

What I haven't realized. I'm going to use you for an example.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You're inferior because you're purple.

[A]

I'm grimace. Yeah.

[B]

You're not in fear. But here's what I've learned. I. Think or believe. I think. I believe that you've chosen to be. That you choose to be purple. And so when we get into conversations and you're like, that's logical. I'm. And I'm like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Do the other thing now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I didn't choose to be yellow, did I? So I'm just a big old hypocrite thinking that you're choosing to be purple and refusing to your yellow side. Hey, man, then that must mean I'm doing the same thing, huh?

[A]

Okay. So how did that. How did that feel?

[B]

I hung up. I didn't hang up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did that feel? I need my feelings wheel, you know? Felt surprising. I felt disappointed.

[A]

In

[B]

me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of like I was talking about with my mom a couple weeks ago, just not giving people enough credit, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Um. Yeah. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trying to get my green life, dog. I'm trying to. Trying to engage my purple a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She also said something that really pissed me off.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Well, she ventured a question and asked me, how can. How can you come at any moment with genuine authenticity if you're not in the green? Didn't like it because she's also right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. And I think you. And I get hung up on that sometimes where. Maybe not that directly, but it is like. Like you're coming from a point where you're like, how can you not see it like this? And I'm like, how can you not see it like this? You know? Or like, how are you not worried about this? Or how do you not think about this? Or whatever. We are so stuck in our yellows and purples that we're not meeting in the green oftentimes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. What she said made a lot of sense to me because so much of, like, the real, genuine parts of life are rooted in vulnerability and feelings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And for me to consider myself an authentic person and either not having the capability to engage my purple or choosing not to. Yeah. I just. I'm not as authentic as I think I am, and that is upsetting. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Okay. I mean, I think I know this, but I'm gonna ask well, I'm gonna

[B]

take one of your lines. That's how conversations works, right? You don't predict everything all the time. You just do it. Just do it. What's up? What do you know for sure what you're gonna ask?

[A]

How do you fix it?

[B]

Oh, man. I think it's. I think the leukemia is gonna take me out before I can fix it, buddy. Being present. Mm. Yeah, that's also very frustrating. The more reflection in therapy and things that I do, it's. Man, it's almost frustrating how much of it comes back to just mindfulness and being present and just, like, letting go of what you think, you know, or what you think should be. Just letting go of control.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

fuck that, you know, that's hard.

[A]

Yeah. So that's the hardest thing, some would argue. Yeah. Yeah. So with this new knowledge, do you have any regret or past sympathy or anything in. With others in or situations?

[B]

Regret doesn't feel accurate for me. Sympathy also. I'm sure if I went back through, like, specific situations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sure I could find a bunch

[A]

that

[B]

I wish I would have handled differently, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there's no value in that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I feel a little disappointed in myself. I feel a little shame about it, But, you know, all I can do is just try to be better going forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't have this. You and I have a very different relationship with shame. Like, I. It comes across to me that shame is like. It's crippling for you. And for me, I'm like, yeah, shame's part of life. I feel shame about a lot of things that have happened. And. Yeah, I'm supposed to. I'm supposed to feel like if I feel ashamed of something and I look at him like, yeah, man, you should be ashamed of that. And, like, I think that's okay. It doesn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Part of life. We're going to be ashamed of things. Yeah, I guess I. I don't know. Kind of like failure.

[A]

Yeah. That all goes into presentation for me. Yeah. And God forbid anybody, you know, sees the failures of the.

[B]

You think no one's seeing it.

[A]

I. Well, yeah, I know that they. Hey. Yellow. They are purple. Nah, man, I'm hiding it pretty well. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm all yellow. I'm like, what am I, Daniel Day Lewis?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also, you tell someone a story, like, they might be like, oh, that's horrific. Okay, maybe it was, dude. Yeah, I know. Like, shit, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Were you not raised with. I Mean, you had. You had similar. I think with the strictness you had, you were controlled by shame a little bit.

[B]

Right. I think it was more fear than anything else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think it was shame. Well, maybe. Because I think the fear of making a mistake is probably rooted in shame. I think the difference is my environment was. It was conducive to fixing it myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas your environment was removing you so it could be fixed for you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I think there's a lot of. A lot of confidence comes with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Learning to fix things. And. Yeah. I would assume if every time you make a mistake, you're, like, shuffled out of the room so it can be fixed, like, yeah, I'm sure you would be humiliated or ashamed all the time, every time that happened.

[A]

Yeah. So I think also the difference too, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the. The. The value of it. I don't know if that's the right term, but, like, I think you were taught to be shamed for, like, you were worried about, like, upsetting your mother. Like, you fucked up the situation. Like, oh, now we're late, or now I gotta do this or that. So it's like a situational shame thing. Mine's directly related to character. Oh, you this up. You're not this or that or what. Like, this is. This is who you are. Like, oh, you're late. You're. It's not like, oh, I messed up this time that we're having, that we're late to this event. It's that I can't count on you. You're unreliable. You're this or that. And so that is the shame that I got dealt with. And so for me, when failure or mistakes or whatever happens, it's directly related to character instead of situation. And I think for you it might be situational where you're like, yeah, I fucked up, so I'll do better next time where I'm like, oh, I'm a fuck up.

[B]

Oh, it's defining.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. For me, it was like, yeah, you fucked it up. But it's like, well. Well, better not do that again. Yeah, but I'm saying, better not do that again. I'm like, oh, I fucked up, all right. Mom's pretty angry. Whole day seems to be ruined. Yeah, I can't let that happen again. Yeah, you could, though.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm so. It's like, this is what you do.

[B]

And you're like, all right, I'm just playing the part. You're just playing the Part after that.

[A]

Yeah. Then it's just like, oh, that's who I am. I guess. I guess I. The day up. Okay.

[B]

Do you still believe that's who you are?

[A]

Oh, yeah. And, yeah, for me, it's.

[B]

Don't lie to us.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not. It's still not situational for me. I think that's what happens a lot of times when you and I are talking about where you're like, I'm not attacking your character right now. And it's like, I don't know that. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

It's not a good fit. Hey. And that happens. Finding good therapist is like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now.

[A]

Oh, no. You're in love. Never. Never.

[B]

You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, Dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out like the trophy?

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[A]

When you're talk. When we're talking about these situations, you're like, I'm. I'm. What I'm saying to you is directly what I'm saying to you.

[B]

How hard was it for you being wrong about all the David Sedara stuff last night? Every time you were wrong about something,

[A]

I was like, buddy, I was like,

[B]

I hope you can hear the show.

[A]

Oh, so loud in my head all night.

[B]

Were you able to let it go?

[A]

Uh, it was that on top of,

[B]

like, explain what happened. Let's get.

[A]

Get.

[B]

Give. I'm on team context right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Give the context.

[A]

So we went to go see David Sedaris last night. He was doing a reading here at the Smith Center. Beautiful place. And I had seen David twice before. You've never been to anything like this. And so I was trying to prepare you for what we were about to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was about to unfold in the evening, because I've been through it twice.

[B]

I was walking on eggshells not knowing what to expect. That was. I did not ask for preparation in any way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was prepared. Now onward, you know?

[A]

Well, here's the context of the context.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I thought that I was. That I should give you. Because of the conversation we had about hiking months ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where I felt like I didn't prepare you, so I had to rush us through the hike.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I assumed you just didn't want to be there because you don't enjoy hiking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was like, okay, great. I'll just get us there. We'll go through the hike real as fast as we can, and we'll get back to the car, and I'll get you home. And, like, thanks for coming. Like, I really appreciate you doing that.

[B]

But how. What does that fix for you in your head?

[A]

That isn't fixing for me. It's more of, like, make it as easy as possible for you to come with me, because I want you to come with me. And then days later, I find out that you're like, yeah, I don't like going hiking with you because you rush through things. And I'm like, I was doing that for you. If I. And what I learned from that or, like, I took away from it was like, oh, maybe if I would have prepped him. Like, hey, we're gonna go for a hike tomorrow. He's gonna be a minute. We're gonna be up there for a minute.

[B]

Like, what if you just waited for me to ask questions about it? What if you. What if I was a capable adult and you didn't have to prepare me for walking outside?

[A]

I think. I guess I want. I like that information. So I just assume everybody likes that information.

[B]

Do you really?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, dude, tell me what's going on. I need to know.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

Hey, we're going for a hike. Cool. Where's it at? How far? What's going on? Well, how long are we gonna be gone? I need all that information, dog.

[B]

Why

[A]

decide if I want to go or not?

[B]

You need all that to decide if you want to go?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You don't either just want to go hiking or not?

[A]

I'm trying to figure out. Trying to use my yellow right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it. I mean, it's rooted in anxiety, but I'm wondering what the anxiety is from. If it's just fear of not being able to get out of something, probably not being on my own timeline or anything like that. If something were to happen, then, like. Yeah, it's the anxiety of, like.

[B]

Could I sum that up into one word?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Control.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's all control.

[B]

Yeah. You can't always be in control. Go ahead.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then David Sedaris.

[A]

So anyways, so we go to David Sedaris and so I'm like, trying to prep him. Like, this is what to expect. He's going to do a little banter. He's going to read a little bit and he's going to banter. He's going to read. And then also on the way there,

[B]

you're like, he always. He never sells his own books.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He. He'll bring a book from another author and he always promotes other stuff.

[A]

He'll read from their book. Like, yeah.

[B]

We walk in, it's a table of David Sed books for sale. Immediately I was like, okay, he's doing things differently. Yeah, not for you.

[A]

No. I was like, oh, no.

[B]

You're like, okay, he did one thing differently. Everything's gonna be the same.

[A]

Yeah, I'm a liar now.

[B]

And then David Sedaris is in the lobby meeting people.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

He did that before the show.

[A]

Never before.

[B]

And you still thought everything else could be the same.

[A]

I didn't even see until the show was about to start. Like when you and I went back in for, like drinks or whatever, I was like, oh, shit, there's David. And I was like, he's doing a pre show signing. Didn't know that was an off chance. We would have went early and got in line. Then at the end of the show. Oh, by the way. So then he doesn't really banter at all last night. He does mainly just readings.

[B]

Long readings.

[A]

Long readings. Because he has a new book coming out, so it's all stuff from the book and stuff he's working on. So it was like, all readings mostly. I was telling you he does, like, funny stories from tour and stuff. He did like, two. And then at the end, you were like, hey, do you want to get out of here and get in line? And I was like, no, no, no. I was like, what they do is they'll make an announcement if you want to stay to get your book signed. We'll go up to the front line by the front row there, and you sit in the seats, and then they call you row by row, and we go out and get them signed. And you're like, okay, cool. And then they didn't do that. Yeah. And we got at the end of the fucking line. Yep. And we waited for two hours to have our stuff signed and talked to David. I hated it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I felt dumb. I felt like a liar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I felt like a fraud. It was just like. And again, that's not situational shame. That's not. Hey, when we went to Davis Adairs, he. Michael didn't know what the was going on.

[B]

Why would you. You're not on the tour, dude. You walking in there like, you know his procedures.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So ridiculous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when everything was different, you're just like, I know it's going to happen. How could you? He's clearly doing it different.

[A]

Nothing made sense to me this time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was the other thing. I was like, what?

[B]

This happened?

[A]

I was just so thrown off by. Yeah.

[B]

That's the quintessential, like, oh, man. So much of just. That's like you in a nutshell. You're like, I know what I like. I know what I like. I know what's gonna. And then it's wrong. And you're just like, did you want to adjust, like, halfway through?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

In case it's the same. What about in case it isn't? Did you want to audible a little, but, like, you. You just can't.

[A]

No, it was really hard for me. And also. And again, it's control. I'm trying to control your experience. I want you to have a good time. So you'll go with me again?

[B]

Yeah. I almost left you and went and got in line.

[A]

I, I. Yeah, you should have.

[B]

It was close. I was like, I'm gonna tell him I need to go get a tissue. And I was gonna go get in line.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was like, there's no way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's no way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I didn't. I let you suffer.

[A]

Yeah. So I was in my head about all that, and I was in my head suffered along with you. I was also in my head being like, don't look at Louis. Just let him enjoy it. Like, I was like, is he enjoying. Like, I kept wondering, like, is he having, like, the worst time? Is he having the best time? And I just. I had to con. I. What was going on in my head was also trying to tell myself, like, you can't control that. He is having his own experience, and he's gonna let you know at the end of the night, hey, I had a great time, or I didn't.

[B]

Yeah. What if I was like, I would never do that again. Don't shrug. What would have happened to me?

[A]

I would have said, fine, that's great. Thanks for coming with me. But inside, I would have died.

[B]

Why would that have been so hard for you?

[A]

I want to share it with you because I care about you, and I love you, and I want you to do things with me because if I

[B]

don't do things with you. What does that mean? Into the mic, please.

[A]

Means you'll leave. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We did it, Purple bitch.

[A]

Yeah, I am. I almost cried just then.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I think that's.

[B]

Can I tell you one thing? You ever have me in line for two hours again, I'm leaving. Just.

[A]

No, that's fair. Hey, now that's fair.

[B]

Now that makes perfect sense.

[A]

Now that is fair.

[B]

Unless we're at With Love Always, I can do a line of With Love Always.

[A]

Yeah, I. I don't know. I. It. All the stuff comes back around to. I don't know. I just want. I just want to spend time with you. And so, yeah, I'm bugging you to go on hikes with me and little

[B]

walks or, like, already bugging.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I know you don't want. You don't want to do those things.

[B]

That's such a bother. Yeah, I know. You know everything. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, no, I know because you tell me you don't want to do those things, and I keep asking.

[B]

Yeah, sometimes I don't.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

You ever considered doing stuff that I want to do?

[A]

Yeah. Oh. I ask you all the time, like, what do you want to do? What's going on? What are you doing today?

[B]

See, my girl said something that pissed me off the other day. By the other day, I mean yesterday. We were getting ready to leave for David Sedaris, and she's like, I can't remember the last time you were gone

[A]

for A few hours.

[B]

I was like, what the fuck is that supposed to mean? She's like, you don't leave the house. Really? I'm like, is this a problem? What the fuck is this? Yeah, that was. It pissed me off.

[A]

You felt attacked, huh?

[B]

Didn't feel attacked. I was like, that's fucking. Yeah. I like to be at home, bro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We moved from LA to Vegas. We get a nice house. I want to be at the house. And that's a problem now. I didn't like that. I didn't like that. Yeah, I was a little judged, I think.

[A]

If you had it. I mean, you do have it your way. You wouldn't. You wouldn't seek stuff out like that.

[B]

Like what? Like,

[A]

You used to go to concerts and all that stuff back in the day, but now everything's changed. Or what is the. What's the difference? I guess. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, all the. All the. Anybody I would like to see live only does big venues now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't really like big shows.

[A]

Yeah, that's fair.

[B]

Like, I don't like arenas. I don't like that. Kind of ain't for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, honestly, my tolerance for people is so much lower.

[A]

Ah, fuck.

[B]

I remembered something else from therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, being a yellow person.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Well, God damn it, dude. Mm. Don't. Mm.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

I know. Well, she gave me another example, okay, Saying, yeah, yellow people often. Will say no to things because they know they won't enjoy them. Like a concert or reading. Like, large crowds. I don't like large crowds. This is there. I don't like that. I don't like that. And she's like, have you ever been somewhere that you're like, oh, God, it's gonna fucking suck. And enjoyed yourself? I was like, oh, yeah. All the time.

[A]

She goes.

[B]

And that. I did hang up on that one. I didn't. And I was thinking about that dinner party with. That I went to with my girl, with her. Her friends from college. I was dreading it. Dreading it. Had a great time. At a fucking unbelievable time. I was like, yeah, same David Sarahs, like, had you not, like, invited me and, like, there's no chance I'm going to that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but I enjoyed myself minus the.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The long line to get, you know, book signed. But that. That is what it is. Like, you know, if you want a book sign, that's what you got to do. So, yeah, yellow's getting in my way sometimes, and that's fine. Cut all that. That will never see the Line of death.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

How that feel? To realize that you're getting in your own way sometimes

[B]

feel. My first respond was like, that makes sense.

[A]

The most yellow response.

[B]

Yellow bullshit ever. Surprising. I don't know if that's a feeling. I need my wheel. I'm gonna print out a feeling swoofer in here for these moments.

[A]

Yeah,

[B]

it. I don't. It doesn't feel negative. That's what I can say.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't feel angry or disappointed in myself. It's definitely. It feels like a revelatory moment. Yeah. But more eye opening than angering. That makes sense.

[A]

How long do these moments last for you when they happen? Like these revelations, do you sit with them for days or is it just like, huh, and you move on?

[B]

Nah. Pretty quick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. They'll come and go as I reflect and, like, have downtime and stuff. But things like that don't really hang with me. Negative feelings hang with me more. If I. If there was some self hatred or some shame, some disappointment, it'd probably stick with me a little longer. Yeah, you can hang on to a negative feeling all day long, bro. You know?

[A]

Hey. Mm. Yeah, I had. Oh, God, I don't even know how to.

[B]

Are you gonna cry?

[A]

I almost cried twice.

[B]

Are you gonna cry right now? Your eyes look like you're getting shiny.

[A]

No, I'm not.

[B]

Are you lying?

[A]

I'm not gonna cry the rest of the time.

[B]

That's not true. All right. Onward. What do you got? What do you got?

[A]

We have been dealing a lot with identity and therapy. A couple weeks ago, I ended with. What are those called? The door handle confession.

[B]

Doorknob.

[A]

Doorknob confession. And which I didn't mean to. We just ran out of time.

[B]

And now.

[A]

Now that's what happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wasn't saving it or whatever, but we were talking about. We've been talking about the pivot that I took because people talk about relationships and things like that. And so we've been unpacking a lot of those past relationships. And we were talking about the chain also the changes that have come from, like, coming out of the pandemic and like the pivot that I've made in my career as well, because it all was, like happening at once. I was going through a breakup and I was also kind of breaking up a stand up at the same time. And like, it all just kind of got mixed into this new identity. And so he. A few weeks ago, he said. We were talking about that, and he said. He said, yeah, let's talk about the pivot, when, you know, the tattoos and things like that. Like, when did those start showing up and how did that affect your career? Like, on screen and on stage and stuff. And I was like, oh, that's on purpose. I changed my avatar on purpose.

[B]

What do you mean by your. Your screen career?

[A]

Are you being a dick right now?

[B]

No, I'm not.

[A]

Just auditioning for things and, like, being on television and film and stuff like that. Like. Okay, yeah, okay.

[B]

I don't. I don't remember you, like, submitting many auditions through. I mean, just my time knowing you. Oh, honestly, I didn't know you were.

[A]

Yeah. And I would do a lot. Wasn't aggressive, but I would get offers all the time. And I would get like, especially commercial work and things like that. We get tons of commercial work offers. And then you didn't take any of them? No. Why? I. I got in my head. That's a whole different thing about. Anyways. But, yeah, a lot of times with comedy especially, it would be sketch work. And when in sketch work, you were dressing up in characters and things like that. And so you have to be versatile, and so you have to be kind of like a blanket canvas kind of thing. For commercials as well. They want you just to be.

[B]

Yeah. Unless it's like a specific look.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You got to be an accountant or a clan member.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So I told him. I was like, yeah, that was. All of. All of those were. That was very purposeful. And he said, well, what do you mean? And I said, oh, I. I changed my avatar on purpose so that they. I couldn't be usable. And he was like, we're out of time, but we're gonna unpack that. And I was like, okay. And so we came back around to it this week, and he was like, hey, I want to talk about this. We talked about it a few weeks ago, and da, da, da. And I was like, yeah. And I had spent so much of my life being a product that I wasn't able to have my own identity. Like, I had to be whatever they needed me to be. And a lot of the stuff that I was going out for, auditioning for was like the sarcastic, fast talking, you know, like, douche kind of character, you know, asshole, whatever kind of thing, which is pretty spot on to me. But like, yeah, like the. The Joel McHale kind of lane. Yeah, that's what I would go out for all the time. And on stage, I had to be bigger than life and high energy and character work and stuff, because those were the things that were Working for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I got so tired of doing that. Like, I didn't want to do that anymore. And when I shifted gears, a lot of that stuff stopped. You know, a lot of those auditions and bookings and everything slowed down, and I was kind of bitter about it. And I was done with the chase of, like, touring and pitching shows and auditioning and doing all that stuff. And so I wanted to change myself in a way that you couldn't use me. Hey, we have this thing for you. Nah, no, you don't. I got a big neck tattoo and my head shaved and I got, you know, like, you're not gonna use me. Hey, we. My friend got this. No, you don't.

[B]

You.

[A]

I can't. I can't do it. I didn't want to be on screen anymore. I hate that we're on video for this every week. I wish this was audio only. I. Yeah. And anyway, so I wasn't able to be.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why is this a problem? This is one of the most fully in control you can be.

[A]

Sure. This is more. This isn't. This is more self image stuff.

[B]

You just don't like how you look.

[A]

No, I hate how I look.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And so he brought up an interesting point, which was. Because I told him I was like, you know, I wanted to stop the chase and I didn't want. I knew that if opportunities were to come up, that I. I wouldn't be strong enough to say no to them. You know what I mean? Like, hey, we have this thing for you to do this commercial, or we have this thing for you to do this thing on whatever TV show. I would take it and then the cycle would start all over again, and so I would be back to chasing it and.

[B]

Or I don't understand, because we. At the beginning, we. We were talking and you said you always turned down commercials and stuff because you were getting your head and why do you think you would say yes to.

[A]

To other acting stuff? Not like, necessarily commercial, but like, if the price is right, yeah, I'll do a commercial. You know what I mean? Like, okay. That kind of temptation that comes along where it's like, yeah, you want to do a petco ad for 10k? Yeah, I'll do that. You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, why wouldn't you?

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, like, that. Those kind of. Or a buddy is, you know, like, you know, because I'm friends with. Comedy's a very small community, and so you get opportunities all the time with a friend who's working on A show or something like that. And they're like, hey, there's this thing that opened up, like, you should come do this part. And it's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. Because then that. That'll start that chase again. And I was done with the chase. And so I thought in my head, the only way to stop the chase was to fucking kill the hunter, you know?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he said, that's really interesting that you chose. This is what I always do. Instead of setting better boundaries or having, like. It is better boundaries that I would. I would choose to. To run away instead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if I'd call that interesting. Might call it predictable. I know you better than he does, and that's okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never saw it like that. I saw it as setting a boundary. I saw it as, like, sticking up for myself. I saw it as, like, taking control,

[B]

making permanent choices.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Just hiding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We got into performance and things like that, and I've been reading that Matthew Perry book.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And it's fucking me up.

[B]

I have nothing to say about that. I'm not going to point anything at you or suggest anything about that book. I hope you enjoy it. It's a good read.

[A]

It is a good read.

[B]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[A]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[B]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[A]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[B]

All right, so here's the thing. That. He already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, here's what you do. You go to trypsychic source.com/sht10, okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life. Okay.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Talk about my love life.

[A]

Trying to see some. Some.

[B]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[A]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[B]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a Psychic. You can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[A]

Oh, I can't.

[B]

I.

[A]

Please, please DM us.

[B]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

I want the tea. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using Better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

It's not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now.

[A]

Oh, no. Never. Never.

[B]

You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you? Dude, you think I'm not going to walk out with the trophy?

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy.

[A]

We love you guys, but I shared something with him. There was a quote from the second chapter where he says, as long as I was funny, everybody was fine, and I was safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I brought that up, and I brought up the caretaker kind of role that I had with my mother.

[B]

And.

[A]

And then we got into relationships, because that's what we're talking about as identity and relationships now and this and that. And I was expressing kind of an overlap from last week about, like, The changes that I had made in past relationships that I thought. My partners needed, wanted. And he was like, And what relationship does that sound like to you?

[B]

Yeah, well, don't leave us hanging.

[A]

Yeah, it's. You know what it is.

[B]

I don't. What relationship are you replicating in every one of your romantic relationships? We are on the edge of our

[A]

seats, our collective seats. Yeah, sure.

[B]

So what relationship are you replicating throughout your life since she died?

[A]

You know what it is?

[B]

I want you to tell me.

[A]

Do you have any guesses? Nope. Tell me, mama.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. As long as I can be what they need me to be, then everything is fine and I am safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that goes not only in relationships, but also the reason why I brought up career and stuff like that and being a product. As long as I am what they need me to be, who they want me to be, then everything is fine. And I'm working, I'm safe.

[B]

Do you feel safe?

[A]

I have never felt safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So being what you think everybody needs you to be, you've never felt safe. What do you actually feel when you do that?

[A]

I feel like. It's buying me a few more days.

[B]

What is. What does it feel like Surviving? You don't feel safe.

[A]

You feel. A little bit.

[B]

Little lifeline.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's why I struggle with, you know, what we talked about before. This has been going on since the early episodes, which is, I just got to get through this moment right now. If I can get through this, I'll be fine. And that takes place in everything in my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They'll just love me for a few more days, be okay.

[B]

Is that purple or yellow?

[A]

So what are we gonna do about it? Glad you asked.

[B]

I ask.

[A]

Every week he gave me, I ask,

[B]

are you mad at her yet? How could I be? I go, okay, another week.

[A]

He gave me little steps, little thing. He gave me a little homework. You know, I've been getting homework.

[B]

Nice. And I know one thing about you. You're a study bug, buddy.

[A]

I love a little homework. I love direction.

[B]

You do love direction.

[A]

Tell me how to fucking. What do I need to do here?

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm gonna ask you a question. I want you to be honest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you doing the directions in order like he's saying? Are you following the directions?

[A]

Oh, there's not, like, an order.

[B]

Okay. Thank God.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, God, no.

[B]

Yeah. I'm starting step three, bro.

[A]

It was better than that.

[B]

You think I won't start ahead? I will.

[A]

You don't think I'll skip some.

[B]

Ah, dude, I. One and two. We all know you don't read. One and two. All right, what's your homework?

[A]

I actually already kind of did some before the therapy. And this is. I, I, you know, I don't know. This is so, this is so small, okay. That I need you not to be yellow. I need you to be purple on this.

[B]

Oh, Jesus fucking Christ.

[A]

Already. Yeah. Suit up.

[B]

Okay. I'm a dumbass. I'm a crybaby, whiny dumbass. I'm a dumbass. I'm a dumbass. I'm a dumbass. Mm. Mm.

[A]

I said not yellow. I need you to be purple.

[B]

Waa. What happened? Okay. No, seriously, I will do my best. Hit me.

[A]

The other day, you handed me a wallet.

[B]

I did hand you a wallet.

[A]

You said, hey, do you want this wallet? Yeah.

[B]

I said, hey, somebody gave me this wallet. I'm never going to use it. Would you like it?

[A]

I said, yeah, thank you.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

And then I looked at it.

[B]

Can I tell you in my head? I was like, for me it was a test. Because I was like, you'll never use this wallet. Like, you will only use, I mean, a wallet that looks like an affluent person's wallet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I knew you would never use it. So I was like, okay, he's going to take it and he's going to put it in a drawer and that'll be that. At least I don't have to deal with this wallet anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you said, yeah, thanks.

[A]

I said, yeah, thanks, man. And then we sat and we talked for a little while and in my head I'm like, I'm not going to. What am I doing with this wallet? I'm not going to use it. And then a few minutes went by and I slid the wallet back to you and I said, hey, man, sorry, I'm not gonna take this wallet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was so big for me. I jokingly told my therapist that like, my coffin will just have a sign that just says, leave whatever you don't need and take a thank you note. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like just people dumping stuff off and it's just a thank you, guys. Oh, I'm gonna love this. Thank you so much because. And I told you this in the moment, like old me would have taken that wallet. And when you brought it up when I'm using my wallet, and you'd be like, hey, you're not using that wallet. I'd be like, I'd make some Kind of excuse or some kind of thing. And for the rest of our lives. Yeah. Instead of just saying, hey, I don't want that wallet, or taking the wallet. And then when you. If you ever bring it up, like you're not using that wallet, I'd be like, yeah, I didn't like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Telling you I didn't like that wallet.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

That's a non negotiable. Are you out of your mind?

[B]

Even though I didn't get it for you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was just an extra thing I had.

[A]

Doesn't matter. It's rude or it's mean or.

[B]

It was rude and mean. That's right. I'm hurt. I'm still hurt.

[A]

You should be.

[B]

You did this to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bad boy.

[A]

Bad, bad boy. You stop it.

[B]

That's a bad boy.

[A]

You stop it. I'm not bad boy. I'm not bad boy.

[B]

He's a good boy. Who's a good boy? Put your hand down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, good for you, man, for turning the wallet down after you took it. Yeah.

[A]

You can't. You are trash.

[B]

I forgot to be purple. Good job. Good job giving the wallet back.

[A]

Thank you. So my homework is to find small things like that sometimes around them and see and like, make note of what I'm doing when I'm doing that.

[B]

So what are you actually doing? Like being uncomfortable. Like, what's the. What's the exercise? Actually

[A]

just being more authentic because what you want or need from me is to take the wallet.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I don't want it. I'll never use it. So more authentically, I'm going to tell you that I don't want it or I'm not going to use it because that's the truth.

[B]

Is there anything wrong with doing that?

[A]

Hey, turns out no, but. And it's hard.

[B]

What about it's hard?

[A]

Hurt your feelings. I don't take it.

[B]

Says you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

[B]

Do you see what's happening here? Yeah.

[A]

Welcome to Purple.

[B]

But here's my confusion.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If you invite me hiking and I say, no, thank you, that hurts your feelings sometimes? Of course you think people are going to be hurt if you say no because you're hurt when they say no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Do you think if you learn to not take things so personally, you might be able to understand other people aren't taking them so personally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm over here.

[A]

Yeah, I try.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Listen, I know that you're yellow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I try my best to approach you as yellow.

[B]

Okay. I had no idea.

[A]

I try my best to be aware that you're yellow. And I prepare myself when we engage knowing that you're yellow.

[B]

I don't feel that really. Hardly ever.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Really?

[A]

You think I'd treat you as purple?

[B]

I don't think you treat me as purple. If we're gonna have a conversation that is anything more than casual, I very much prepare myself for a very emotional response.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I typically get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm preparing myself for a very non emotional response.

[B]

Right. So how is. I guess I don't understand. I've never tried to come to you as purple.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when you say you're coming to me as yellow.

[A]

Oh, I'm not coming to you as me being yellow. I'm coming to you knowing that you're yellow. So I'm approaching you is the response is going to be yellow. You are yellow. There is not like. That's what I mean. I'm not saying that.

[B]

Yeah, I do that too. It's not. Hell, it doesn't do anything. It's terrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got this purple. All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What? How am I going to set him off today?

[A]

Yeah, same. I know. I look at you and I go, this yellow motherfucker. Like, he's not going to understand I'm going to say this and he's going to be like, why don't you do. Or like. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah.

[B]

Have you found it that it helps for you?

[A]

No, it upsets my purple.

[B]

So why do you still do it?

[A]

Because that's who we are.

[B]

I don't understand.

[A]

I mean, I have always been purple, trying to think yellow. And you're just now, a few days ago, realizing that you are mainly yellow and you're going to try better at thinking purple.

[B]

Yeah, I'm trying to get some green.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But we haven't had that conversation ever. And so we've always just been yellow and purple and we've never tried to be green together.

[B]

Yeah. This is a very hard moment for me. I don't know if you're misspeaking because you're making no sense to me. So. Okay, here's my confusion. I. Earlier, when I tried to clarify, you said, you're not coming to me as yellow. You're knowing that I'm yellow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then you just said you're trying to be yellow for me.

[A]

Not for you, for myself. When I. That's why a lot of times, I mean, you know this because we. You brought it up even earlier. Like a lot of times when I. I will say things like, look, emotionally, I know this. And logically, I know this. And so I have been trying to do what you're getting ready to do, which is like, stop myself. And I'm going the opposite way, though. I'm trying to stop myself from being so emotional and think logically to calm myself down or to get through a moment instead. And you're trying to stop yourself and try to be a little bit more emotional or see it from another side. Right. So.

[B]

But when did that start?

[A]

Are you being a dick?

[B]

No, I'm trying to under. I think you have not been saying what you think you've been saying for the past 10 minutes. So I'm trying to get on the same page.

[A]

The past few months. I've been trying to be better at, like, at least recognizing that, hey, I know logically, this doesn't make sense. And emotionally, this is what's happening. Okay. Or, I mean. Sorry, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean to say.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. So. But when it comes to you and I, I don't know what the miscommunication is. So when it comes to you and I, I'm not expecting you to be purple at all. I'm always expecting you to be yellow. And so it's hard to find green between us when you're expecting me to be purple and preparing and doing all that. And I'm expecting you to be yellow and all that. So we're not expecting either one of us to find a middle ground. We're both expecting. We're both coming to the conversation as, like, I already know what this is going to be. Yeah.

[B]

We're not going to understand each other.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm very excited for when you edit this. When you watch it again, you go, what the are they saying? And I'm gonna be like, see, this is why I have to ask so many questions. I hate it.

[A]

It's a very yellow response.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. It's a podcast. We can't go in circles every week. Huh? Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening. Listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhandtherapypod okay, love you.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.

[A]

I'm Kiana. And I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of know and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day, I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free trial at shopify.

[B]

Com.