Picky in Love. Avoidant in Reality. | #128

Summary

Secondhand Therapy | Episode #128: "Picky in Love. Avoidant in Reality."

Date: May 4, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Theme: Love, Avoidance, Relationship Anxiety, and Self-Reflection

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Episode Overview

In this brutally honest and often hilarious episode, Louie and Michael unpack their patterns in love, focusing on struggles with pickiness, emotional avoidance, and attachment styles. Drawing from Louie's recent therapy sessions, the duo hilariously but thoroughly explore relationship roadblocks—especially in the age of dating apps—and the emotional baggage brought from past partners. Michael brings observations from the Matthew Perry memoir, catalyzing a sharp, vulnerable conversation about rejection, self-worth, and the difficulty of radically accepting others (and oneself). The core theme: The tension between wanting deep connection and sabotaging it out of self-protection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dating App Spiral & Searching for Perfection

• Struggling With Apps: Louie admits (08:05) to a familiar cycle—downloading and deleting dating apps like Hinge, Bumble, and occasionally Field, feeling trapped in endless comparison to an ex.
  • Quote [09:18]: Louie: "I'm finding myself just scrolling through and being like, hey, you're not my ex. You're not my ex. You're not my ex."
  • Therapist’s Feedback: Louie's therapist points out it’s unfair to judge new potential matches against the depth of experience with an ex, since “they do not have the rich experience that you have with your ex.” (09:42)
  • Visual Judgments: Louie confesses to feeling he can detect compatibility by photos/profiles—Michael calls this out as "not real," reinforcing the tendency to quickly dismiss options as a defense mechanism. (10:37–11:00)

Avoidance, Self-Sabotage, and the Fear of Missing Out

• Matthew Perry Memoir Parallels: Michael relates Louie's relationship approach to Perry’s: Pursuit of the "perfect woman" as a smokescreen for avoidant behavior. (12:06)
  • Quote [12:06]: Michael: “His pursuit of the perfect woman was just a way for him to be avoidant...I didn't actually want the perfect woman. I just always wanted somebody better.”
  • Louie contests this—saying his issue is “fear of missing out” in monogamy, not seeking “better” per se.
• Sabotage and Standards: Michael highlights Louie's admitted gripes with past partners’ fashion as possible avoidance. Louie insists this is “just preference,” not avoidance. (14:01–15:59)
  • Memorable Exchange [15:59]:
    • Louie: “These partners are great in other ways and I can be okay with them not being as fashionable as I like...I don't think that is...avoidance.”
    • Michael: “You don’t think that could be a bit of avoidance?”

Acceptance vs. Attachments & Learning to Let Go

• What Does “Acceptance” Mean in Relationships? [17:10–20:49]
  • Heated debate over whether it’s truly accepting to continue wishing a partner were different—even in trivial ways, like clothing.
  • Louie: “I think that is almost impossible to completely ignore out of your mind for the rest of your life...It matters if you’re attaching yourself to the thought.” (19:22)
  • Michael: “I think you gotta just accept it.” (17:10)

Bonding Through Complaints (Commiseration Culture)

• Comedy & Relationships: Both discuss how easy it is to bond with friends by complaining—about partners or life in general—and how sitcoms have normalized “bitching about your spouse.” (24:04)
  • Quote [24:56]: Michael: “Like any shows I watched growing up, like Home Improvement, Everybody Loves Raymond…it’s always the funny husband and the naggy wife.”

Attachment to Exes & Internalized Rejection

• Difficulty “Closing the Door” with Exes: Louie admits he’s still emotionally entangled and reflexively hurt at the thought of his ex moving on, despite being on dating apps himself. (25:42–28:19)
  • Louie on Ex Dating [28:05]: “How would you feel if you found out she was dating?” “Hurt...Oh, yeah.”
  • Therapist calls out this double standard as ego.
  • Louie’s Reflection: “It doesn’t feel like ego, it just feels like, ouchie, you know?” (30:05)
• Distorted Self-Image: Louie fears people from his past remember him only as “a lot,” focusing on his perceived annoying or anxious behaviors, not his good qualities. (32:53)
  • Notable Moment [34:49]: Michael: “Do you tend to pick real pieces of shit that only hate people?”
    • Louie: “No.”
    • Michael: “It sounds like you think you do.”
• Louie’s Hurt at Others’ Opinions: He acknowledges it hurts to think someone could dislike him when he tries his best. (39:17)

Patterns of Self-Protection: Reject Before Being Rejected

• Avoidant Breakups: Michael notes the pattern of sabotaging relationships by finding flaws or leaving first, to avoid being left. Louie relates, not by finding flaws, but by feeling “not enough”—leaving so he’s not left later, echoing the fear of rejection. (42:01–45:46)
  • Quote [45:41]: Louie: “I ended up so that she couldn’t hurt me, so that she couldn’t end things and hurt me later because I couldn’t live up.”
  • Michael: “And you don’t think that is rejecting before you can be rejected?”

Disagreeing, Authority, and Reality in Friendship

• Recurring Conflict: Louie becomes frustrated by Michael’s confident disagreements—feeling dismissed or defined by Michael’s perspective.
  • Louie [50:23]: “It would be the same thing if you were sitting there and you were like, my shirt says bear on it. And I'd be like, I disagree...no matter what I say, it just—that feels weird.”
  • Michael [54:03]: “I have a much stronger sense of self than you do at this point. So I think if the roles were reversed, I don't think I would feel that you are defining me.”
• Control and Self-Discovery: Louie recognizes part of his discomfort is a lack of control over others’ opinions, and a sense that his own reality is being questioned. (55:25–57:43)

Safety and the Myth of the “Spark”

• Avoidance Framed as Lack of Spark: Michael shares Perry’s insight: safe, stable partners may feel “boring” because your nervous system isn’t activated, leading you to mistake security for lack of chemistry. (58:35–59:30)
  • Quote [60:03]: Michael (from Perry): “She’s not perfectly safe to risk nothing.”
  • Louie: “Yeah. That clocks.”

Change and the Lure of the Familiar

• Change vs. Chaos: Michael reads, “The only thing I hate more than the way things are is change.” Louie admits: “Change is scary.” (61:03–61:18)
  • Perry Line: “Change can feel very wrong when chaos feels like home.” (61:47)

Song Lyric on Heartbreak

• Louie Shares: His songwriter friend’s lyric: "Whatever breaks your heart is probably the thing you're going to do." (62:20–62:45)
  • Tying together the episode’s themes—self-sabotage, fear of intimacy, and heartbreak as a pattern.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Dating App Avoidance:
  • Louie [09:18]: "I'm finding myself just scrolling through and being like, hey, you're not my ex. You're not my ex. You're not my ex."
• On Avoidance via ‘Preference’:
  • Michael [12:06]: "His pursuit of the perfect woman was just a way for him to be avoidant...I didn't actually want the perfect woman. I just always wanted somebody better."
• On Acceptance vs. Preference:
  • Michael [17:10]: "I think you gotta just accept it."
  • Louie [19:22]: "It matters if you're attaching yourself to the thought."
• On Letting Go of Control:
  • Michael [40:43]: "You just gotta make peace with the fact you have hurt a lot of people and you're gonna hurt a lot of people."
• On Avoidant Breakups:
  • Louie [45:41]: “I ended up so that she couldn’t hurt me, so that she couldn’t end things and hurt me later because I couldn’t live up.”
• On Authority and Self-Definition:
  • Louie [54:40]: "Let's flip that around. If I was like, I'm wearing a shirt that says pony. And you'd be like, no, you're not. I'd be like, yes, I am. I can see it. And you'd be like, yeah."
• On ‘Spark’ and Security:
  • Michael [59:28]: "Safe people tend to feel boring because your nervous system is not activated."
• On Change and Chaos:
  • Perry (read by Michael) [61:47]: "Change can feel very wrong when chaos feels like home."
• On Heartbreak Patterns:
  • Louie (via songwriter friend) [62:20]: "Whatever breaks your heart is probably the thing you're going to do."

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Episode Flow & Tone

• Candid, funny, and sharp: Jokes and bitingly honest exchanges keep things moving, but the episode is notably more emotionally raw as Louie navigates discomfort and vulnerability.
• Real therapy vibes: With Michael often playing the challenger and Louie processing aloud, it feels like a therapy session in progress—but with best friend banter.

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Key Takeaways

• Relationship avoidance often looks like searching for "the one" or rejecting people for superficial reasons, but is rooted in deeper fears of rejection and inadequacy.
• Acceptance in love means letting go of constant wishing/fantasizing for change and learning to be present with partners as they are.
• The “spark” in relationships can be a misleading marker of safety versus excitement.
• Internal narratives about how others perceive us (especially exes) can be distorted by self-doubt and anxiety.
• Disagreement, even among friends, can feel invalidating—but is often more about our own sense of self than the other person's intentions.
• Change, vulnerability, and true intimacy all feel risky but are necessary for growth.

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Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod hello, my little

[B]

bear cubs, and welcome back. Do you like my shirt?

[A]

Pretty cool shirt, dude.

[B]

I wasn't talking to you, dude. I wasn't talking to you, dude.

[A]

Well, then I hate it.

[B]

You've never seen a cool shirt in your life.

[A]

I'm wearing a cool shirt. What are you talking about? I'm wearing one. I'm currently wearing a cool shirt.

[B]

I'm wearing a gold medal shirt. You're wearing a bronze metal shirt.

[A]

This is platinum.

[B]

They don't do platinum medals, do they? Only if the Olympics are in Atlanta. I think keeping it in, that's pretty funny.

[A]

No, you know, it is funny.

[B]

We need to remind you that we're not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy, and this is not professional advice in any way. I regret that joke a little bit, but I do think it's funny.

[A]

It's a funny joke.

[B]

It's a funny joke.

[A]

Good bit.

[B]

Thank you. Do you like my shirt? Do you like my hat? I do. I like them both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is quickly becoming my favorite hat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it's fantastic.

[A]

Autistic. Maybe I'm autistic.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

What is the. What's the song? Call me maybe. Can you do it? Because. Can we do a parody with autistic maybe?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Legally, No.

[A]

I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Wow.

[B]

All right, look, if you'd like to support the podcast, that'd be great, because clearly we are unwell. Patreon.com secondhand therapypod ad free episodes. Early episodes. There's a whole other podcast. There's a bunch of stuff. Go check it out. Go see what we got over there. And if you like my hat, you can go to secondhandtherapypod.com we have merch.

[A]

We do have merch.

[B]

Should we sell these shirts?

[A]

I don't think anybody's gonna buy these shirts.

[B]

That one? No. No one's gonna buy that one.

[A]

I think that might be popular in certain communities.

[B]

What? Which communities?

[A]

Your bear shirt.

[B]

Which communities?

[A]

Loving ones. Hmm. Community is full of love. Generous and loving.

[B]

I feel like there's. I feel like you're implying something and I don't know what it is. Okay. We also, if you'd like to get into helping, you know, support women's reproductive resources, you can go on over to vasectomyfarms.com where we sell arguably our best merch. Yeah, it's pretty Great portion of that we donate.

[A]

So every time I wear my Vasectomy farm shirt out in public. Yeah. People be like, yo, that's my second favorite hat. What? Is that where I love it?

[B]

Yeah, it's nice.

[A]

It's nice.

[B]

Nice. What else? You can contact us. You can text us, you can call us, leave a voicemail.

[A]

You could email us, send us physical mail.

[B]

You could send us physical mail. All that is below the phone number, the email address, and the PO Box. It's right below in the episode description. Holler at your boys with a Z. Okay.

[A]

What? That's important. Okay. They need to know that we're down,

[B]

we're down, we're down, we're down, we're down. Are we talking about love today?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

I don't wanna.

[B]

Well, I finished the Matthew Perry memoir and I brought notes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All about love.

[A]

Scared about those. That paper you brought. Jesus. All right, let's. Can we just. Okay. You're gonna hear some ads and all that stuff. Go on the Patreon to avoid that. Let's get into it.

[B]

I already did that. I already did that. Reminding them patreon.com secondhand therapy pod. Do you like my shirt? Do you like my hat? Comment, yes, below, Wherever you're doing this. Comment, comment, yes, comma, daddy, period. Remind them, yes, comma, daddy, period. Do you like my shirt? Do you like my hat? Yes, comma, daddy, period, or father, if you're feeling formal, if you're trying to.

[A]

Let's just roll the music, please. Please, God. Somebody fucking start the music.

[B]

If you want to pull the condom off, you could just put father.

[A]

No.

[B]

I don't even know means. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[A]

All right. Okay. Are you really.

[B]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University, found some classes.

[A]

Oh, you fancy.

[B]

Now I'm out here. He.

[A]

He's a schoolboy.

[B]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[A]

I mean, I love to learn.

[B]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[A]

I need to. I need to do it more officially.

[B]

You never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to snhu EDU sht. And you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career. Do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu. Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[A]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[B]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[A]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[B]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[A]

Okay, all right.

[B]

Talk about my love life.

[A]

Trying to see some. Some.

[B]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[A]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[B]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[A]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[B]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

I want the tea.

[B]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[A]

And welcome back Secondhand therapy. And we know that I keep downloading and deleting the fucking apps. The dating apps.

[B]

Which ones?

[A]

All of them.

[B]

Hinge.

[A]

Just Hinge and Bumble? Pretty much.

[B]

No field.

[A]

Well, there was field. I don't. There was. At a time.

[B]

Are you on any of the apps in this moment?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which ones?

[A]

Hinge.

[B]

If you send us a screenshot of his hinge profile, we will send you a hoodie.

[A]

We're not doing that.

[B]

Why? That's a fun game.

[A]

We're not doing that.

[B]

That's a fun game. You put your profile in a random city. We're not going to tell them where

[A]

to do that.

[B]

You have to pay to do that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What a scam.

[A]

Yeah, it's. The whole thing's a scam.

[B]

Okay. Anyways, so you're hopping on and off the ads.

[A]

I'm hopping on.

[B]

You're on the train. You're off train.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know, man. I. I'm finding myself just scrolling through and being like, hey, you're not my ex. You're not my ex. You're not my ex. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So you're, you're looking for one person on there?

[A]

I think I, I, you know, certain times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very specific. Yeah. I don't know. I told my therapist about that and he was like, well, that's not fair at all.

[B]

To who? To whom? I don't know which is correct.

[A]

Potential matches. Because what was the, what was the phrasing he used? He said, because they do not have the rich experience that you have with your ex.

[B]

The rich meaning what?

[A]

Meaning, like just the, the months of dating. You know what I mean? And like, you know, time together and the bonding and like, all that stuff that's already there. Like, they don't have any of that. I'm just judging off of a profile and being like, man, that's not gonna work. Yeah, man, that's not for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I was telling him, I was like, it's like, I don't know. I think, I think I have a pretty good idea by looking at somebody's profile, like, if the vibe is going to be there or not, or if it's, like, how it's going to play out and stuff.

[B]

By the visuals of their profile.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, wow.

[B]

That's a talent.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It turns out that's not a thing my therapist told me, hey, that's not real.

[B]

Yeah, that's not real. Did he give you some insight into what you're actually doing? Is.

[A]

Well, yeah. That's when he was talking about the, The. They're not. It's not. It's not fair to them. Yeah. That's when we got into that section. Is it fair to you also? Not Fair to me.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have a tangent.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I finished the Matthew Perry memoir, this book I read about you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he talks a lot about his relationships and how he, as he describes it, sabotages them.

[A]

I was gonna say sabotage. Fuck.

[B]

And even just the way you're talking about the approach to the apps is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm already. I'm already booby trapping them.

[B]

Yeah. He didn't. I'm not pulling quotes from this book. Because my memory is not that good. So I'm gonna give you the gist.

[A]

Your memory's not that good?

[B]

My memory's great. It's not good enough to remember a book.

[A]

You.

[B]

But from what I gathered, at one point he was talking about how his pursuit of the perfect woman was just a way for him to be avoidant. Yeah. And everything you're saying just made me think of that. So, yeah, he had a great line. Again, not. Not verbatim, but something along the line of, I didn't actually want the perfect woman. I just always wanted somebody better. And I don't want to point the finger,

[A]

but.

[B]

Familiar.

[A]

Yeah. See, I don't know if it's better, but it is. It is definitely a fear of missing out. Like, that's what I struggle with in relationships that are monogamous and long term. It's like. Yeah, it's not necessarily. I'm looking for something better.

[B]

It's just interesting.

[A]

Yeah. The restriction of not being able to. Connect with somebody else.

[B]

I'm going to challenge you on that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I recall. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

[A]

Well, your memory is terrible. We just talked about it, so go ahead.

[B]

Yours is worse. I want to say two women you have seen long term in the past few years, everything was great. One of your gripes of both of them. Not gripes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

One of your imperfections of both of them. They didn't quite dress cool enough.

[A]

Yeah, that's called a preference. That's not really a.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I want. I. I would like my partner to be fashionable. I don't think that's a bad thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Why that? To see, I am okay with saying that. Like, I don't want to date somebody who dresses sloppy. That's not for me.

[B]

Do you? Oh, I never found that either of them dress sloppy.

[A]

I don't either.

[B]

I just didn't think they dress, like, cool enough or, like, edgy enough. I don't know what the adjective is.

[A]

Yeah, it was just. Yeah, I don't. I wouldn't categorize them as sloppy either. I'm just saying, like, yeah, that's a preference of, like, I want my partner to dress nice. I don't think that's a negative thing.

[B]

You don't think that could be a bit of avoidance?

[A]

No, again, I think that's preference. I don't think that's avoidance. It'd be like. It's also not a deal breaker. You know what I mean? Like, they'd be like, hey, I prefer brunette. And it's like, well, you're avoiding love then, because what if you like a blonde and it's like, nope, I'm only dating brunette. It's like, well, no, that's a preference. You prefer brunettes?

[B]

Sure, I guess. I guess where you lose me is if after you've already chosen the person, if you're still focusing on the dress, the style, the hair color.

[A]

Yeah, I.

[B]

You're losing me there. Cuz then it's, it's no long. It doesn't sound like it's a preference. Now it's a problem because otherwise, well, you knew what you signed up for, not you. Yeah, but you saw the way they dress. You knew their hair color. If you've then, yeah. Paired up with them and you're like, yeah, I wish they dressed different. Well, you gotta let that go because you already knew it.

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think all relationships have a give and take to it like that. I love this guy, but he chooses with his mouth open. Well, if you can live with him chewing with his mouth open, then that's your guy. You know what I mean? So like, these partners are great in other ways and I can be okay with them not being as fashionable as I like or whatever because they're great in other ways. And so like. Yeah, I don't think that is. I think that is as common as somebody being like, I love my partner, but they snore. I wish they didn't snore. They're not gonna. Unless they're like chronically snoring. You're not gonna break up with somebody or be like, I just couldn't handle it. I'm not gonna break up with somebody because I'm like, couldn't handle it. Man, their color scheme was off. When we would go to the airport, they did, you know, they didn't dress well enough at the airport or something like that. Like, I'm not gonna break up with somebody over that. But I can still have that thought about being like, huh, I wish when we went somewhere you weren't in sweatpants or whatever.

[B]

No, I disagree.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think you gotta just accept it.

[A]

That is accepting.

[B]

I don't. Interesting. I don't think wishing it was different is accepting it. You do?

[A]

I forget how careful I have to be with words. It's not wish wishing.

[B]

I'm going to stop you there. What can I do you. Do you have any interest in. Instead of blaming it on needing to be careful, what if you were just more intentional?

[A]

I could be, but in conversation, I'm a casual talker and Especially on here, when we're going back and forth, I'm talking more casually. And so that's wild to me.

[B]

Like, on the record, you're like, man spitballing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm trying to make sure I'm, like, being understood properly. That's really. That's an interesting difference between us.

[A]

Yeah. Because things like that don't matter to me. Like, the idea of, like, the word wish there, it's not as anchored as it is for you. For me, I'm using wish as, like a. Yeah, that'd be nice. And you're using wishes like this anchored term about being like, oh, he's really hung up on this, and he wishes things were different. I'm like, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you don't get to

[B]

speak to my interpretation.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm. That's what I'm receiving when you say, like, be more intense. And I'm trying to explain, like, why it's so casual on my end and all.

[B]

And I will say, even if you had said, oh, that'd be nice, I would still disagree with you. I would say you still. That's not accepting it.

[A]

So accepting your partner's snoring is not being, like, be nice if they didn't snore.

[B]

Well, snoring is out of somebody's control.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So, I mean, if we could just do apples to apples and just do clothes or, you know. Yeah. I think you just got to know that that's how they dress and not wish it was different or it'd be nice. I think you just got to enjoy the night and not think about how they're dressed. I would. That's my. Yeah, that's my thought in the moment. I don't know that I stand by it, but that's my instinct right now.

[A]

I think that is almost impossible to completely ignore out of your mind for the rest of your life. If you. If that is something that matters to you, even if it is just a fleeting thought, I think it matters if you're attaching yourself to the thought. I think that is. That is. That is what matters. How much are you attaching yourself to that thought?

[B]

What does it mean to attach yourself to? I don't know.

[A]

If you have a fleeting thought about being like, I wish she wasn't wearing sweatpants right now. We're going to dinner.

[B]

Uhhuh.

[A]

And then you go, well, and then you walk out the door and you go to dinner and you have a great time. That is a fleeting thought. If you attach yourself to that thought where you go, wish she wasn't wearing sweatpants when we're going out to dinner. And then at dinner, the whole time you're going, the waiter's coming over here, he's going to see you're in fucking sweatpants. And then on the way home you're like, it was a great dinner, but everybody was looking at her in her fucking sweatpants. Like, what the fuck? That is attaching yourself and letting it ruin the moment. Accepting is just being able to have that thought and not attach yourself to it. I think if you have a preference like that, you are going to have those thoughts whether and again you have control over what you do with them or not. I think that is the difference. Accepting is being like, yeah, I know. Sometimes I'm going to look at her and be like, I wish she wasn't wearing a hoodie right now. Okay. I don't think you can control that.

[B]

Okay, how, what about how often the fleeting thought comes up, does that.

[A]

Yeah, over time probably. Yeah, you're just. I think over time it would just be like, yeah, that's how. She's like my girl. Be always in a hoodie. Like I think, yeah, over time. But yeah.

[B]

All right, what else you got? I get the feeling you did not like that.

[A]

Didn't like what? I. It's not. I didn't like it. It just, it. I don't like it. When I'm speaking for myself and you're disagreeing with what I'm saying, how I feel or think.

[B]

Where did I disagree with you? Where?

[A]

I'm like, yeah, that is accepting. You're like, no, it's not.

[B]

I'm like, I disagree with you.

[A]

Okay, but you're telling me that I don't. That I'm not loving as much as I could be.

[B]

I did not say anything in the neighborhood of that.

[A]

That's accepting, right? That's acceptance with your partner.

[B]

Are you telling me.

[A]

I'm asking.

[B]

What are you asking?

[A]

Are you saying that I am missing out on truly loving someone because I can't, Because I have these hang ups sometimes or that I'm not loving them fully?

[B]

I don't know. I wasn't even thinking that deep into it.

[A]

You're always thinking that deep into it.

[B]

I wasn't, I was just. Yeah, I was just saying if, If. Yeah, like a complaint you have about your partner is like constantly coming up for you. I don't, I don't think that. I don't think that means you've accepted whatever the thing is. I'm not saying you're not loving them as much. I don't know. Yeah, I have to think about that. That's an interesting question.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was like. But more so. It was just like, yeah, I am accepting that.

[B]

And.

[A]

And you're saying that I'm not. And I'm like, yeah, I'm telling you, I am.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. I disagree. I. I just do. I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think a lot of the times on here, we get into. You're very much a. Like, conscious decisions. You're like, I'm not choosing to hate on these sweat. I'm like, I know you're not. We're talking about avoidance. You're. No one is consciously avoidant. Like, it goes.

[A]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I can see that.

[B]

Yeah. I think you're. You're kind of on the conscious decisions thing and I'm not. Yeah, I've accepted that. Quit talking about it. That I don't know.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. I think it also goes into just like. Again, like, the. What we always come back to right, when we're talking about this kind of stuff is like, the language of commisery and things like that. It would. It's easier. It feels easier to bond with my friends.

[B]

Like, bitching about your partner.

[A]

Just bitching about anything. Not just your partner, really. Anything in life.

[B]

Yeah. And it's all. Yeah.

[A]

And it sucks.

[B]

We really did come up in, like. Like any shows I think about. I watched growing up, like Home Improvement, Everybody Loves Raymond.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like any. It's always the funny husband and the naggy wife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that is like the trope of sitcom television.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a really unfair portrayal of relationships and expectations and women.

[A]

Yeah. When I see. Just in comedy, I. I see it a lot still with older comedians, and it's. It makes me cringe in the back of the room. And people are like, my wife. And you're like, buddy, yeah, just love your wife.

[B]

Just love you. Yeah. I'm guilty of it too, though. Like, when my girls drive me crazy. Like, it. Is it. One, it's fun to joke about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Two, don't do it. You know, I shouldn't be doing that.

[A]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, this is the. This is more so like, the idea of what makes things funny. And it's hard to make happy things funny. And when you're trying to, like, bond with somebody, it's. It's. It's harder to, you know, be happy. I feel like.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. All right. What else?

[B]

What else? Your therapist tell you about your little app hunt there? Yeah. No, no, no.

[A]

Tell me. Well, I don't know if you can pick up on this or not, but I've been having a hard time closing the door with my ex.

[B]

Which one? I got three come to mind.

[A]

Such a piece of. You're trash.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You know what? That I believe that I believe you on that one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And he said, we'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

It's not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapist is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Never. Never. You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this to my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you?

[A]

Dude, no.

[B]

You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us. You can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[A]

How would you feel if you found out that she was dating? I said, hurt. He said, really? I said, oh, yeah.

[B]

Define dating.

[A]

You know, dating.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Entertaining young gentlemen in any level.

[B]

Yeah, okay, so you're a hypocrite. Okay, yeah. Hey, I'm a hypocrite all the time, dude. I get it.

[A]

I said hurt, and he said, why? And I said. I said, how are you going to be happy I'm not around? What are you talking about? What are you doing? You out there having a good life? I'm not even there. He said, well, that's ego. Yeah. I said, yeah, probably.

[B]

Probably. Let me think about that. Probably.

[A]

Yeah, probably.

[B]

He's like, no, no, no. I'm actually the expert in the room. It is.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That's ego.

[A]

And I was like, oh, okay. I don't like that. But

[B]

ego drives us all, you know?

[A]

Yeah. It doesn't feel like you just feels like, ouchie, you know, it just feels

[B]

like, what does ego feel like?

[A]

Because in this. In that moment, I'm not saying, oh, I think I'm better than whatever you've found. I'm not saying that. I just mean, like, how you having a good time? Like, I want to have a good time with you. Like, we should be having a good time together. Like, what do you mean you're having a good time? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like, yeah. It's not like, oh, whoever you're with, they're not me. It's like, no, no, no. I just want to be like, oh, hey, what? We're supposed to be having fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I feel like, ouch. You. Not ego. Okay. You know?

[B]

Yeah. I think that's back on the, like, conscious decision thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Maybe. I don't fucking know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How'd that feel? Knowing that your ego's running the. The grieving of love?

[A]

Not great. Yeah, not great.

[B]

What's your beef with it?

[A]

It's just ugly. I don't want that to be true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it also doesn't. Like, I just said it doesn't feel true. Yeah. I'm just like. I feel more ouchy than anything. And. Yeah. Yeah. Then he asked me, what do you think she thinks of you? Because we got into like, you know, you're having a good time without me. And he's like, well, what do you think she. She thinks of you? And I go, I don't think she does. And he's like, you don't think she thinks about you at all? And I said, no, not at all. And he said, okay, well, let's just pretend that she does.

[B]

Fun game.

[A]

It's a great already.

[B]

I'd like to play some more.

[A]

I said, okay. And he's like, what do you what do you. What do you imagine her thinking of? And I said, oh, nothing good.

[B]

Oh, yeah?

[A]

And he's like, what do you mean, nothing good? He's like, didn't you. Didn't you guys have a good time together? I was like, I had a great time together, but I think, you know, in any. I think in any kind of relationship that I'm in, I'm not thought of fondly. I think it's more relief than anything, and that I am just a lot. And I realize that, and, Yeah, that's not fun. And he said, well, do you have any examples of you thinking that you're a lot. I said, I sure do.

[B]

Let me get my notebook.

[A]

Let me get my.

[B]

Actually, write him down.

[A]

I've been cutting it into my arm. Here's the list. I said. I said, yeah, something just happened this weekend that would be a perfect example of me being a lot good. And he's like, okay. I said, Sunday, we had a house guest here, and we were all hanging out as a group all day. And then it came around dinner time, and I was like, hey, are we all gonna grab dinner? And you and I had a conversation. I was like, hey, what are you thinking for dinner? And you were like, I have no idea. I haven't talked to them. I was like, cool.

[B]

And then I was like, you were also the only one who was hungry.

[A]

Yeah. Which is also now my.

[B]

Yeah, you're. Yeah, you don't handle hunger well.

[A]

I'm like, we gonna eat or what?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, yeah. I was thinking maybe pizza or something like that. And you were like, I don't know, man. Ask them. Yeah. I was like, okay. And immediately I started retreating. I was just like, hey, you know what? I'm just gonna grab something. Why don't you guys get whatever? And I was like, because I don't want to be in the way of you guys getting something that you actually, like, want to get, like, Thai food or something like that. And so I went upstairs and I asked the girls, and I was like, hey, are you hungry? What's going on? And they had mentioned. I had mentioned pizza. And then your girl had mentioned this Thai place. And I was like, cool. I was like, hey, don't let me get in the way. I kind of gave her the same thing I gave you. I was like, don't let me get in the way. You guys do whatever you want. And she was like, no. And then the guest was like, actually, pizza would be great. And so we looked at the menu, this and that. And we went to go get pizza and whatever. Now, if you and I, for some reason, are no longer friends one day, I would imagine that there is a sense of relief there when you think of me about being like, remember, we couldn't fucking eat anywhere with that guy. Instead of like, God, he was funny. Right? Or he was a good hang. Or he was, like, fun to be around or, like, whatever. Like, I imagine all of the talk about me is going to be this fucking guy.

[B]

Give me another benefit other than funny.

[A]

I don't have any.

[B]

All right. Isn't he funnier and, like, fun to be around and, like, good hang. I was like, you said the same thing three times. You got another benefit in there?

[A]

Nope.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Outstanding.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Write it down. Talk about it next week.

[A]

But, yeah, so the sense of relief is there about, like. That's how I imagine you would look at our relationship. About, like, this guy. We couldn't. Or like, whatever it is. And so, no, I don't think she's thinking good things about me. I think she's thinking very similar things to that, where it was like, guy, like, whatever.

[B]

Like, what is da, da, da, da, da, da. Hard to eat with. What else?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, you do. Don't lie to me.

[A]

Look at your arm. Anxious I'm sure is on there. Like, you know, things like that.

[B]

So you have anxiety and you're hard to eat with.

[A]

Yeah. And like, okay, I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff, but I wouldn't know. Well, open your eyes. I would. Anyways. Anyways.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So why would her? Anyone I've been in contact with, friendships, relationships, whatever. Be like, that guy's great.

[B]

Do you tend to the people you choose to have in your life? Do you tend to pick real pieces of shit that only hate people?

[A]

No.

[B]

It sounds like you think you do.

[A]

I just think that's the way of the world.

[B]

Which world?

[A]

Reality. Mmm.

[B]

Try again.

[A]

I don't know, man. Yeah, that doesn't make sense to you. You don't think if you end things in a friendship or a relationship, they're not being like,

[B]

fuck that guy. Maybe I don't care.

[A]

Yeah, why don't you care?

[B]

Who are they telling it to? Other people I don't know. Exist?

[A]

Themselves.

[B]

Oh, no. What the fuck? What does that do? Let's use my last roommate.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He and I were friends for right out of high school. Fifteen years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not like, super close, but consistent friendship. We would check in a couple times a year. We ended up moving to LA at the same time. We're like, let's get a place, it'll be easier. Blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. He and I then had a bit of a falling out at the end, and I haven't talked to him since. Couldn't care less. Like, what is he gonna say about me and to who that I. That I should be concerned about? And I'm actually asking to.

[A]

To himself.

[B]

Why does that matter?

[A]

Why doesn't it matter

[B]

the same? Okay, so, like, if I were to tell you right now the issues I have with him or had with him that are all 100% true, how does that affect him at all?

[A]

I don't. I mean, maybe it would change the way I interact with him if I were to see him or whatever. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

What are the odds of that?

[A]

Very low.

[B]

So what's the point?

[A]

Look, listen.

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm listening.

[A]

I'm not hearing a lot. I'm listening. Know these things emotionally, I don't know these things.

[B]

What it feels like, what. Just hurts that someone would think negatively of you.

[A]

Yeah. Because, listen, not all the time, but most of the time I'm doing my best. I tried to do my best. And. Yeah, it would just hurt to know that somebody thought I wasn't. Or that I was purposely being mean or mistreating them or ignoring them or whatever the. That it is, you know, or like, that I. Because I'm not out doing that, you know, I'm trying my hardest not to do that. And so, yeah, That doesn't affect you.

[B]

I mean, it's just. That's a perfect bow to what we've been talking about. You know, you're like, I just want you to know that I am making the conscious decision to not hurt you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then people could be like, yeah, you still hurt me. And you're like. But I. You. I didn't mean to. Yeah. Ouch.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You just gotta. You gotta make peace with the fact you have hurt a lot of people and you're gonna hurt a lot of people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's hard for you to accept, huh?

[A]

Yeah. I don't hurt nobody.

[B]

Yeah. Why not?

[A]

Doesn't feel good for you, for anybody.

[B]

Because if you heard of them, what might they do? Do you think

[A]

they'd be mad at me? And then they leave.

[B]

And they leave. We did it. We did it.

[A]

They're already gone. Well,

[B]

you're referring to your ex right there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey. I forgot who ended the relationship.

[A]

Why are you doing this to me?

[B]

What?

[A]

Read your little. Read your little stories.

[B]

Well, you Said. You said, they're going to leave. And then you said, they're already gone. And I said, well, who actually ended it? And then you deflected.

[A]

Oh, I'm aware.

[B]

You don't want to talk about it.

[A]

What do you want me to say?

[B]

Who ended the relationship?

[A]

Me.

[B]

Okay. We have something written down here.

[A]

Is that all you needed? Yeah.

[B]

So you ended it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, Matthew Perry has some thoughts on that, I've gathered from reading.

[A]

Sure he does.

[B]

Yeah. As he would say, he has this inherent belief that he is not enough. And so when he finds himself in relationships, they're great. And then he becomes infatuated and latches on to the person pretty quickly. And then as soon as things get real or close and vulnerable, he tends to find a flaw and reject them before he can be rejected. So who ended the relationship?

[A]

Me. But that's not what happened. It's similar, but not what happened. Okay. Okay. You want me to tell you what happened?

[B]

You don't have to. If you're comfortable with it, you can. Sure.

[A]

Are you.

[B]

Are you going to regret this? Because I can see her having an emotional reaction.

[A]

I am having an emotional reaction. This is. Yeah, I. Well, here's why.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I feel like. I think. You have these setups here and yours. You're saying. You're pointing them at me and saying, this is what you're doing. And even if I'm like, well, that wasn't what happened. You're disagreeing with that. Even though. And even when I argue to the point about being like, you're like, yeah, but consciously. Yeah, so, like, subconsciously, like, this is what you're doing.

[B]

I'm not saying this is what you're doing. I'm saying I disagree with you on some things.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

And I'm saying.

[A]

But even on this one, I haven't even explained myself. And you're like, sure, go on.

[B]

I also have context of things we've

[A]

talked about off air. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't find a flaw. And then focus on that. And then that made it the thing that made me reject her. That wasn't it. Okay. But similar to Mr. Perry. Yeah. I didn't feel like I was good enough. And when I'm looking at long term with her, I didn't think that I would be able to live up to. To what she needed me to be or she would want me to be. And, Yeah, I. I ended. Up so that she couldn't hurt me, so that she couldn't end things and hurt me later because I couldn't live up.

[B]

And you don't think that is rejecting before you can be rejected?

[A]

That is rejected before I can be rejected. Absolutely. That's why I said it's similar. But I'm saying I'm. I didn't. What I disagreed with was, like, finding a flaw in her and focusing on that to talk myself out of the relationship. That's not what happened.

[B]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[A]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[B]

They do mediums. They got mediums, right?

[A]

I'll take a large medium.

[B]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it, okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com/sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. 0 minutes for 19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[A]

Okay, all right.

[B]

Talk about my love life.

[A]

Trying to see some. Some. Maybe some road bumps.

[B]

Just seeing if it's gonna be clear this, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're going to do a medium.

[A]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[B]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Try psychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went. Oh, I can't. I.

[A]

Please, please DM us.

[B]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[A]

I want the tea. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[B]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[A]

I'm using Better Help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[A]

It's not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding you Know being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[B]

And you're married now.

[A]

Oh, no. Never. Never.

[B]

You're in love now.

[A]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[B]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[A]

Absolutely not.

[B]

Let's do one together.

[A]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[B]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, Dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[A]

I know you will.

[B]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor, and if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy, and you will get 10 off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys. You're gonna hate this. I disagree.

[A]

Okay, yeah, sure.

[B]

I'm allowed to disagree.

[A]

You're allowed to disagree. That's fine.

[B]

Why does it bother you so much?

[A]

Because you're telling me about my own life and about my own feelings.

[B]

I'm not telling you about your feelings. I'm telling you about my perspective. My perspective.

[A]

Yes, but you're saying it with such authority that it is. It disregards my reality.

[B]

I don't agree with that.

[A]

It would be the same thing if you were sitting there and you were like, my shirt says bear on it. And I'd be like, I disagree. And you'd be like, I'm wearing a shirt that says bear. And I would go, I've seen you wear other shirts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know that's not what you're wearing right now. And you'd be like, I'm wearing a bear shirt. And I go, okay.

[B]

Do you think I would three times go, I'm wearing a bear shirt? You think like, okay, dude, you're fucking idiot.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

Why is it so important to you that I see it the way you see it?

[A]

Because this feels like fact, not opinion.

[B]

No, it's my opinion. I'm sure your ex that we're discussing about has a different opinion than both

[A]

of us as to what happened. Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

It's Kind of how humans work, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How you feeling? I see you spinning your ring. Your toes are going.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Feeling attacked.

[A]

I'm gonna be honest. I feel like you have selected things out of the book that are directly pointed at me and not just things to share in general, and that doesn't feel good.

[B]

As a friend, you find these to be negative things.

[A]

Yeah. And you're. And I don't think I'm being out of line by saying they're being pointed at me. You literally pointed at me.

[B]

I literally did point at you. Yeah.

[A]

So, like. Yeah. I feel like they're very pointed things that you've picked out.

[B]

And as I said, this book is about you, my guy.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah. I'm very much looking forward to you reading it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, I just pulled relationship stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would you like a non relationship quote that I thought of you?

[A]

Okay. Yes. But also, can I ask you what you would think or feel?

[B]

Well, I'm gonna say, as I've said many times before, I'm not good at predicting or guessing my feelings, but for the sake of this moment, I will do my best.

[A]

If the. If this was reversed, and this is often what I argue. Right. Like, if this was reversed and I had come with a sheet of paper of all these things that I pulled that were directly pointed at you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How would you. Would you be okay being in the. In the line of fire or not? Sure. Would you be like, why. Why is he doing. What the. What is going on?

[B]

I don't feel attacked as easily as you do, though.

[A]

Yeah, I don't feel attacked. I just feel.

[B]

I would like to answer your question. I would like. It would probably get to a point where I might feel uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think it'd be okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, disagree.

[A]

I don't. I don't know.

[B]

I could be wrong. I might get defensive as shit.

[A]

I don't know. Yeah.

[B]

But I also. But I mean, truly, what I think the root of it is is I. I'm at a point in my life where I just. I have a much stronger sense of self than you do at this point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think if the roles were reversed, I don't think I would feel that you are defining me. And I think right now you think I'm trying to define you, and I think you feel like I'm defining you.

[A]

Yeah. That's what I mean when I say that. Sometimes you answer with such authority that it just like it questions my react. Like it. No matter what I say, that doesn't. Even if it is a like, yeah, let's flip that around. If I was like, I'm wearing a shirt that says pony. And you'd be like, no, you're not. I'd be like, yes, I am. I can see it. And you'd be like, yeah.

[B]

You would look down and read it 15 times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you would be like, I wouldn't look down once.

[A]

Exactly. You'd be like, yeah, I know. Subconsciously your shirt says pony. And I'd be like. So I was like, it's like, no matter what I say about how I'm. You say it with such authority that it doesn't matter what I say. And that feels weird.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

What I'm hearing, and you're not gonna like this because you didn't say it as a conscious thing, but what I'm hearing is you're really struggling with the lack of control you have over my opinion of you.

[A]

I think it's a mixture of that. With feeling dismissed as well, or that I'm not. That I don't know my own reality. I think there is a mixture of that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's what it keeps coming back around to, is being like, no, I'm telling you, this is what it. And you're like, no, okay, yeah. It's hard for me to be like, okay, yeah, you're also wrong anyway. You're wrong. You're wrong. And it's hard for that to just be.

[B]

I don't know, said you're wrong. I think I just say I disagree with you.

[A]

What's the intention behind saying disagree? Isn't it your.

[B]

The intention is telling you I disagree with you?

[A]

Yeah. That my opinion is wrong because you disagree with it.

[B]

No, I just disagree. Well, we're not really talking about opinions

[A]

or fact or whatever. I'm saying you're disagreeing with it, which makes it not valid or wrong.

[B]

Well, this is kind of related to the sense of self. But I'm also at a point in my life where I think I am more willing and capable of accepting reality. Whereas I think you're at a place in your self discovery where you. You still try to manipulate your reality a little bit, so it's a little bit easier to tolerate for yourself.

[A]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[B]

So when you go, this is what happened, and I go, I disagree. What I. Okay, so the intention is. I don't think you're being honest with yourself about that. That's the intention with I disagree.

[A]

And I would agree that sometimes you're right, but also Sometimes you're not sure. And I think that's the frustration is the authority is the same either way and the control is the same either way. The lack of control is the same either way. And that's what's frustrating.

[B]

Yeah. And it's also tricky because, you know, we're voluntarily being recorded.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I could very easily lay out points as to, like, why I disagree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if it's not things that you want out there and you're not comfortable being out, then we just can't do it right now. And then we're kind of stuck in that no man's land of.

[A]

Yeah. All right. What else you got on that paper?

[B]

Okay, let me see.

[A]

I'm gonna try and be more accepting of reality.

[B]

Let's see. Oh, I thought this was interesting. Not feeling a spark with people. So he was talking about the same kind of thing about how it's avoidance and how, like, somebody or maybe not feeling the spark fading. Like, oh, the spark's kind of gone away and da, da, da, da. Because safe people tend to feel boring because your nervous system is not activated. I thought that was really interesting.

[A]

Yeah. That clocks.

[B]

Yeah. So you keep yourself safe by defining it as a lack of spark or she's great, but she's just not great for me. I don't know if you've ever said anything like that. I don't want to talk about it. And then back to an earlier thing we talked about with looking for the perfect partner and how, you know, there's no one perfect, but you know, there's always somebody better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Line is, I wrote this line down. She's not perfectly safe to risk nothing. And that up my brain a little bit.

[A]

He's not perfectly safe to risk nothing.

[B]

Yeah. And I took that as like, you're in this thing with somebody, they're eventually going to want a connection, and then that is at a risk because you have to show him parts of yourself. And then, you know, he has this inherent belief that he's not enough. So they're gonna leave. So who's the perfect woman to risk nothing with?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can I tell you the non relationship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bit? The only thing I hate more than the way things are is change.

[A]

Mm hmm. Scary.

[B]

Why scary?

[A]

Change is scary.

[B]

Yeah. I might have a line for that.

[A]

Oh, You're being serious. Oh, no.

[B]

Change can feel very wrong when chaos feels like home.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. My buddy, I have a singer songwriter buddy. He has a great line and a song that my friend from Texas reminded me of.

[B]

Is this Brewer? No.

[A]

Larry, He said. And when I told him that I. I broke up with my ex, he said, man, whatever breaks your heart is probably the thing you're going to do.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Why do you love breaking your heart so much? Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod. Okay, love you. Bye. And we know that Jesus, that's a bear. It's not.