Rage vs Doing the Right Thing | #113

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy | Episode #113

Title: Rage vs Doing the Right Thing
Date: January 12, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone

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Episode Overview

In this honest and humorous episode, Louie and Michael dive into the challenge of responding to difficult, emotionally charged family situations—specifically, the tension between immediate rage and measured action when the "right thing" needs to be done. From recounting intense holiday family incidents to grappling with loneliness and personal growth, they offer a raw, real-time look at emotional labor, therapy insights, and the pitfalls of masculinity. Throughout, the hosts blend vulnerability with banter, providing listeners with relatable stories and hard-won wisdom about choosing action over anger and breaking cycles of self-doubt.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday Rituals & Solstice Traditions

(07:10–12:01)

• Louie describes his participation in a solstice ritual with his partner:
  • Write 13 intentions for the coming year on separate papers.
  • Each night, you burn one paper at random, symbolically releasing responsibility to the universe.
  • On the final night, the remaining intention is yours to own.
• Michael humorously admits he misunderstood the ritual, thinking it was just a new to-do list:
  • “I got excited and overwhelmed and just thought, I'm gonna do everything.” — Michael (10:01)
• Louie ends up with “Gain clarity on my relationship with my mother” as his intention to carry forward.

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2. The Family Incident: Rage vs. Doing The Right Thing

(12:05–26:42)

The Confrontation

• Louie recounts a distressing holiday event:
  • Returning to his mother's house, he and his partner overhear a heated argument; his mother’s partner yells at her.
  • Louie’s initial instinct is vigilance—"Does this happen a lot?"—and concern for his mom’s safety and emotional well-being.
  • He makes their presence known, then tries to address the situation calmly:
    • Attempts a private conversation with his mother’s partner, who ignores him.
    • Louie addresses it in front of both, stating,

      “It is not acceptable for you to raise your voice at my mother anywhere, ever. It’s also not acceptable as a man for you to raise your voice at a woman.” — Louie (18:07)

    • His mother minimizes the situation, asking why he is “stirring the pot.”
    • Louie responds,

      “You raised me to do this. I’m doing the right thing right now. How dare you?” — Louie (19:22)

Aftermath & Resolution

• The partner later apologizes to Louie, stating,

  “Hey, I apologize for raising my voice at your mom. I shouldn’t have done that.” — Michael's mother's partner (19:54)

• Louie’s mother also acknowledges he did the right thing.
• Louie shares he had anticipated that even while doing the right thing, his mother might try to shut it down for the sake of family peace.
  • “Even though I’m doing what my mom raised me to do, she would try to shut it down.” — Louie (20:32)

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3. The Role of Anger

(26:48–41:00)

• Michael reflects on his own difficulties separating anger from action:

  “My anger would have taken over. … I want to prove that I’m angry. … If I’m feeling angry… you’re gonna know that I’m angry.” — Michael (33:12)

• Louie discusses emotional regulation:
  • He practices not letting anger “drive the car,” especially knowing escalation won’t serve anyone.
  • “There was a part of me that felt angry. I just… you just can’t let that drive the car.” — Louie (27:08)
• They delve into “old programming”—the urge to confront disrespect or aggression with intimidation or violence, and why it ultimately fails.

  “It’s that old programming, right, of accomplishing things with fear, and that’s not the answer. I know that.” — Michael (33:12)

• Michael recounts an old family story where rage nearly led to violence, reinforcing how therapy has illuminated but not erased those impulses.

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4. Loneliness, Holidays, and the Struggle for Self-Compassion

(41:00–54:45)

• Michael describes enduring another lonely holiday season, torn between craving company and retreating into solitude.
  • He shares his internal battle:

    “The theme of the holidays for me was loneliness. There was a moment where I’d seen on TikTok… [a] pizza place… I got dressed and undressed four times.… I was like, what the hell are you doing?” — Michael (41:45–44:51)

  • He ultimately goes out, only to be disappointed that the festive event isn’t happening in his town.
• Michael discusses therapy insights about craving love but being exhausted by the idea of relationships, realizing he isn't ready for a new one yet.
  • “As much as I crave it and miss it and want it, I know that I’m not ready for it. … When I think about love and relationships, it’s so overwhelming, it’s exhausting to me.” — Michael (49:17)
• He commits to changing how he spends holidays:

  “I deserve to have my own traditions. I deserve to have my own identity. I deserve to be happy. I’m done spending Christmas like this.” — Michael (50:32)

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5. Self-Celebration and the Challenge of Positive Self-Talk

(51:29–56:45)

• Michael vulnerably reads from his journal, having written to himself:

  “I’m proud of you…You set a goal and you actually stuck to it. … You deserve to be happy. You deserve to be proud. And that’s something new.” — Michael (52:49–53:51)

• He describes achieving a difficult personal goal (getting his motorcycle license) and the discomfort of recognizing his own accomplishments without external validation.
  • “I can’t believe I did it. … Because I didn’t ask anybody for help. … It was something I did.” — Michael (55:01–56:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Louie on Emotional Response (19:22):
  “I think you’re forgetting an important point. You raised me to do this. I’m doing the right thing right now. How dare you?”

• Michael on Internalized Rage (33:12):
  “If I’m feeling angry… you’re gonna know that I’m angry. Even now I’m talking about it and I’m like, what is it? … Nothing. But it’s just, it’s that old programming, right, of accomplishing things with fear, and that’s not the answer. I know that.”

• Louie on Letting Go (30:14):
  “My mom is happy. She’s very in love. … They had a fight. It’s not my job to police that or investigate it or anything like that. Mom’s a grown woman.”

• Michael’s Self-Compassion (52:49–54:26):
  “I’m proud of you. … You deserve to be happy. You deserve to be proud. … I did the work. … I can’t believe I did it… because I didn’t ask anybody for help. It was something I did.”

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Segment Timestamps

• Holiday Rituals & Solstice Tradition — 07:10–12:01
• Louie’s Family Incident & Moral Dilemma — 12:05–21:03
• Confrontation & Its Aftermath — 21:03–26:42
• On Processing Anger & Masculinity — 26:48–41:00
• Michael’s Holiday Loneliness & Self-Reflections — 41:00–54:45
• Journaling & Practicing Pride — 51:29–56:45

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Tone & Style

• Candid and vulnerable: Both hosts openly process difficult emotions, often in real time, never shying from their discomfort.
• Humorous banter: Even as they unpack heavy topics, Louie and Michael keep the conversation light where possible, with playful jabs (“Do you even know what a pop-up is?” at 45:34).
• Supportive and validating: They model a friendship built on non-judgmental affirmation, encouragement, and a willingness to challenge each other's old patterns.

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This episode is a deeply honest look at the crossroads between instinctive rage and intentional, values-driven action, set against the emotional minefield of family, holidays, and self-worth. Listeners will walk away with relatable stories of standing up calmly (even when it feels impossible), sitting with discomfort, and the radical challenge of telling yourself, for once, “You did good.”

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Transcript

[A]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com Secondhand TherapyPod this episode of.

[B]

Secondhand Therapy is sponsored by BetterHelp. Yes, BetterHelp is an online resource for therapy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know who would have guessed it. I don't know if you know about the show, but we're actually very pro therapy around here. Very pro therapy.

[A]

That is the rumor that's going around.

[B]

It's helped me a lot.

[A]

Tell me more.

[B]

It really has. You don't notice a change in me, Is that what you're saying?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Okay, then has it helped you?

[A]

Absolutely. I'm in Better Help right now and my therapist is awesome.

[B]

Your therapist sounds pretty great. I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

He did. I'm so happy with him. And like, whenever we have to reschedule or something changes, it's so easy. It's like literally like two, two clicks and it's done.

[B]

I have to call mine.

[A]

Boo.

[B]

It's terrible. But here's what I will say. I was always very much an in person therapy kind of set up for myself. Yeah, I'm on telehealth now.

[A]

Way better. Oh, yeah, dude.

[B]

Doing therapy like from your couch or like where you're in your space where you're comfortable? Dude, I'm. I'm doing way better.

[A]

That's one of the best parts of Better Help is that I get to do it from my cozy little corner chair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dim the lights. I light a candle. It is therapy time. Yeah.

[B]

I don't ever want to go back to a therapy office again. So that's where we're at now. Since they are a new sponsor of ours, they were nice enough to give us a little discount code for you to use. So a little treat.

[A]

Yeah. If.

[B]

If you're hearing this, maybe you're in between insurance and you would like to start some therapy. Or maybe you've never been to therapy and you really want to try it out. Better Help's a really good start. They make it easy to find and pair up with somebody. And it's very affordable. So if you want to give it a shot, you can use the discount code they gave us. You can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy or just betterhelp.com and it'll ask you where you heard about it. Choose Secondhand Therapy. They'll give you 10% off your first month. Try it out. Start your healing journey. Change my life. To change your life.

[A]

I'm changed.

[B]

He's Changing, Changing. Hello, my little bear cubs. And welcome back. We're back.

[A]

We're back, baby.

[B]

We're back. Welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. We need to remind you that we are not therapists. We are not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy and this is not professional advice in any way.

[A]

That's correct.

[B]

The holidays have come and gone.

[A]

They gone, baby.

[B]

What's going on? We still have an app. If you would like to support the podcast and you would like to get some help from yours truly on building a, I don't know, routine of like calm and breathing and stuff. Studio.com secondhand therapy. You can go check out the app.

[A]

At least check out the AI generated pictures of you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I've been thinking of switching them out and then I'm just like, it's funny, but it's a good app. So check it out. Studio.com Secondhand therapy. What else?

[A]

We got a Patreon because you're gonna hear some ads. You're gonna hear a lot of ads.

[B]

You've already heard one.

[A]

Yeah. So you're gonna sign up for better help.

[B]

It's good for you.

[A]

You know, people on Patreon, they didn't hear that.

[B]

They didn't.

[A]

They didn't hear any of that. You're about to hear that and some more, but you can avoid it. You can go head on over to Patreon and you can get ad free episodes. You get early access to episodes. You get merch discounts. You get to hang out with us on Lives. You get the access to the other podcasts we do. That's non therapy related. You get all kinds of stuff over there.

[B]

You can. There's three tiers and if you sign up for the first tier, we're gonna send you the greatest sticker ever designed in the history of man. If you sign up for the second tier, you're going to get that sticker. You're also going to get a signed print from us designed inhouse, the greatest print of all time. Now if you sign up for the third tier, not only do you get to hang out with us on a live stream, which we did on the 28th during holiday break. We did, we did a full hour. We're going to send you those two things and then we're going to send you a T shirt.

[A]

Also, if you're following us on Instagram, you've been noticing we've been giving away merch on Instagram. So if you're not following us, you're missing out on free merch.

[B]

And by merch, he means stuff from our closet.

[A]

Hoodies, T shirts, you know, all that fun stuff. We're just giving it away on Instagram. So if you're not already following us, get over there.

[B]

Yeah. Join Patreon. Follow us. We're all world. Try to give back a lot. We appreciate you guys very much. So, yeah, support the pod if you can. We also have merch available if you want to support the pod. Secondhand therapy. Pod.com.

[A]

Also, if you want to contact us, you can do that. There is a number and a P.O. box.

[B]

There is.

[A]

You can either send us little voice notes or text messages, and sometimes we talk about them or air them here on the show. Or you can send us physical mail to our PO Box. We both got little Christmas gifts from. From listeners. And it was very sweet.

[B]

Very nice. Very nice.

[A]

I got little bird ornaments. I got a bird of the day. What is it?

[B]

What is that thing called An Advent calendar?

[A]

An Advent calendar of little birds. Very thoughtful.

[B]

We got no donkey and cow pictures. We got a bunch in the email. Somebody emailed us a bunch. And some goats.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. And I'm talking literal farm animals. I'm not like. I'm not talking boobs and butts. Cows, donkeys, and goats. What's a goat? A boobs, a butt. That's a bush. A goat. Send us pictures of your goat.

[A]

I would love some goat. I'm pro goat.

[B]

We love Polaroids. Send them to the P.O. box. And, you know, with these merch giveaways. We're sending Polaroids around.

[A]

We are sending Polaroids.

[B]

Daddy got a Polaroid Christmas. Polaroid camera around. Not for Christmas, but hand me down. From my aunt. Yeah, vintage from the 80s.

[A]

It's really cool.

[B]

Very exciting. So we're sending out Polaroids with this merch. Anyway. Send us some Polaroids.

[A]

Yeah, let's get. Let's get the show started.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Play the music. You. As long as you're happy. Give him what he wants. As usual. Good to be back. Good to be back, foreign. Cubs.

[A]

And welcome back Secondhand therapy.

[B]

And we know that my girl had us doing this. Well, my girl was doing a thing. She invited me to join her, and I joined her. So she doesn't have us doing it. That's not fair. For the solstice. There's a thing where you. The solstice is December 21st, and it is 13 days or something. So what you do is you get 13 little pieces of paper, and on each piece of paper, you write down something you want to achieve or gain clarity on or work on or something in the next year. And then every night of the solstice, you take one of those papers and you burn one without looking, fold them up, put them within. You pick them at random. Each one that you burn is what you're giving to the universe to take control of, to take the weight off your shoulders. So you burn one every night? Yeah. For 12 nights. And then on the last night, number 13, whichever one is left, is the one that you are responsible for, for yourself. Yeah.

[A]

All I keep thinking about is when you came in to.

[B]

Are you laughing at.

[A]

You came into my room to ask me.

[B]

Hey, real quick, I have a question.

[A]

Funny, I just keep thinking about how badly I this up.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you were invited.

[A]

I was.

[B]

You were invited and then disappeared as usual.

[A]

I came up with 10. And then when you came after the holiday to be like, hey, which one did you get? And I was like, oh, I just figured I'd do all of them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you were like.

[B]

And I said, what? I don't think you were listening. And you said, no, I was listening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I go, but. But you didn't burn any of them. You're like, no, I'm just going to do them all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I said, I don't think you were listening. And then I think you got a little defensive. And you said, I was listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then.

[B]

Yeah. And then I explained giving to the universe, and you go, oh, I didn't get that part.

[A]

Yeah, that's the part I. I missed. That crucial part of that. You're giving those things to the universe. Take it. I thought these.

[B]

Yeah, you thought you were making a to do list and then.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Only doing one thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought whatever you were left with, that's the most important one. And so that's the thing you focus on, which it is. Well, kind of. But I didn't know the universe was taking care of the rest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was like, well, I don't want to miss out on the rest, so I'll just do them all.

[B]

Do you find that to be a productive way to usually accomplish. To do lists? Is it just by doing them all?

[A]

No.

[B]

So what was your thought process?

[A]

I got excited and overwhelmed and just thought, I'm gonna do everything.

[B]

I'm gonna do the solstice thing, but I'm gonna do it wrong. That's cool. Yeah.

[A]

I was like, fuck it, I'm new, changed my whole life.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. So anyways, go On.

[B]

So anyways, you weren't listening, and. Yeah, so I did that. What's up with you?

[A]

No, no, that's not the.

[B]

That's the end of it.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

I burned all 12.

[A]

Uhhuh. And then.

[B]

And then.

[A]

What are you left with?

[B]

That's my business. In my business only.

[A]

I need you to. Look. It's our business. What'd you get? What'd you get left with?

[B]

Well, that little piece of paper. What it says on it is gain clarity on my relationship with my mother. And that's the second worst one that could have been left.

[A]

You know, it's the first one. Be better friends with me.

[B]

No, I didn't write that down. Now, the first one would have been gain clarity on my relationship with my father. That would have been the worst one.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But thankfully, the universe is going to take care of that.

[A]

So shout out to the universe.

[B]

You should be dying anytime.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Yeah, I hope not. I hope there's something.

[A]

Wow. I'm confused. I thought you already had clarity on what you wanted to do with your mother.

[B]

I have clarity on my end. Well, I don't. I don't think I have clarity on what I want to do. I have clarity on the options.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And.

[A]

I had.

[B]

I don't even remember if I made a decision or not. I think I had talked about just taking the route of acceptance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't know.

[A]

Did you. Did you get. I don't know what the term is. Did you get left with this? Did you pull this? Did it. Did the universe decide this for you before your trip home for Christmas, or was this during.

[B]

So it's 13 days after the 21st, so it would have been January 3rd or 4th. It would have been after I got back. I was burning them throughout my visit home.

[A]

Okay. How was your visit home with your mother?

[B]

You know, there was an incident. There was an incident. Okay, not. So she was involved. She was there. She contributed.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There was an incident.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What's going on with you?

[A]

No. No.

[B]

What?

[A]

No. No, no.

[B]

What do you mean, no?

[A]

No.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

No. No. You still have the sharing stick.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

I want to know why the universe picked this for your.

[B]

Hey, I don't ask.

[A]

Well, I think this incident might shed some light.

[B]

Okay, so my girl was. Came home with me for the holidays. We were out running a couple errands, grabbing some food, whatever, and we. We stay at my mom's house when we're home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The bed in the guest bedroom, my neck up. That's not Part of it. Just a fun fact.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So we're out and about. We get home to my mom's house. We walk in the door. That door leads into the kitchen. Beyond the kitchen, around the corner a little bit, is the living room where my mom and her partner are. And we walk in on a bit of a tense conversation they're having.

[A]

Oh, I thought this was gonna go the other way. Okay.

[B]

Are you how they were? Yeah. No, I was like, h I, that did happen once. I'll show you the video. Is that the worst joke I could have made right there? No, that's a Brad Garrett joke for sure. Yeah. They're having a bit of a tense conversation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They don't hear us come in the house. And then my mom's partner starts screaming at her. And my girl and I are standing in the kitchen, and I'm listening because one, I need to see if he's gonna get aggressive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also in this moment, I'm like, does this happen a lot?

[A]

I was just gonna ask, did you. Is this new information, like, this side of their relationship?

[B]

I mean, that they argue? No. Everybody argues. Yeah, but I've never seen them or.

[A]

Heard them at this level.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. My girl, very uncomfortable. She goes into the pantry. I don't know how that's a solution, but she panics. She goes in the pantry, and I go, babe, what are you doing? She goes, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, well, we're going to have to go to. We're gonna have to walk past this. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I dropped the keys on the counter loudly. So they know we're there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Conversation stops. Obviously. My mom comes in the kitchen, acts like nothing's happening.

[A]

Classic Mom.

[B]

Hey, did you get my text? I got. Yeah, I haven't. I haven't looked at my phone. She goes, oh, I just was gonna see if you wanted to get lunch before I drop you off at the airport. And I was like, oh, okay. Hey, are you okay? And she goes, what do you mean? I go, oh, I just heard him yelling at you. She goes, it's fine.

[A]

We're.

[B]

We're in a thing. And I was like, I can be honest with you. Didn't like that. And she goes, I understand. And I go, where is he? And she goes, I don't know. I think he's in the. In the living room still. I go, okay. I was like, we gotta go pack our bags. We walk past living room. He's not there. I assume he went down into their Bedroom. Right. Like a coward. And I hate a coward. Now my girl and I go upstairs, pack our bags. I bring our bags down to the kitchen so I could load them in the car. They're both now my mom and her partner sitting in the living room. And I decide I should probably say something.

[A]

I go in the pantry. Nope.

[B]

Nope. So I go back into the living room. Yeah. For lack of a. I'm not going to say his name right. So I'm just going to call him Michael. Because that's your name.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I don't know if you knew that. So I go, michael, can I talk to you outside for a second? Doesn't even acknowledge me. Just stare straight ahead.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Huh. Also, he doesn't have the best hearing.

[A]

Yeah, okay, But I said it loud enough. Interesting. Interesting tactic. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Stare straight ahead. And I look at my mom and she just looks at me and shakes her head as her way of being like, please, just walk away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I go, michael, can I talk to you outside? Hair.

[A]

Louder.

[B]

He just stands up and my mom goes, please, Louie, can you please just leave it be? And I was like, hey, I'm not trying to instigate. I'm not trying to be aggressive. I just would like to have a conversation with him. And she goes, what do you need to have a conversation about? And I was like, I would like to talk to him outside. And she goes, can you just do it here? And I said, sure. And I said, michael, it is not acceptable for you to raise your voice at my mother in her house. It is not acceptable for you to raise your voice at my mother anywhere, ever. It is also not acceptable as a man for you to raise your voice at a woman. You don't do that. And he doesn't say anything. My mom goes, see, why do you have to stir the pot? Why? What does this achieve? And at this point I'm like, oh, this?

[A]

You're like, I got a scream in her.

[B]

And she goes, why do you have sir, the pot? And I look at her and I go, hey, I think you're forgetting an important point. You raised me to do this. I'm doing the right thing right now. How dare you? And I left. That was it. I have a lot of anxiety recounting that.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I have a lot of anxiety listening to it. And especially it feels unresolved.

[B]

N. It was resolved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Came back down. Well, no, we went. I went and saw my niece one more time. Came back cuz we were going to go get lunch with my mom.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Michael came and he's like, hey, I apologize for raising my voice at your mom. I shouldn't have done that. I said, thank you. I hope you apologize to her as well. He said, we had a long talk. It's all good. I'm sorry for what happened. It's great. Went to lunch with my mom. We talked about it. She's like, you did do the right thing. You're right. And I was like, thank you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So.

[A]

Hey, man.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Good for you.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

That's. That's big. That's really big. Yeah.

[B]

I mean. Yeah. That was the right thing to do. So sucked. I. And the other unforged board is. I knew that's how it was going to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that even though I'm doing the right thing and I'm doing what my mom raised me to do, she would try to shut it down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So did it anyway, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What. At what point did you know that you were going to do that?

[B]

When I saw him sitting there, I thought he might not show his face again until I left the state, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But when I saw him sitting there, I was just like, you know, that's not cool, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Thoughts, reaction, questions, comments?

[A]

I'm processing so much right now.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I forgot to tell you about that.

[A]

Yeah. It's so crazy, man. I. Yeah, you did the right thing. It's incredible. And, Man, I'm. I'm trying to think. Like, I think my anger would have taken over. I don't think I'm in a position where I would be able to do that without anger getting aggressive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's not helpful.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

Yeah. Are you taking Maka yet? I. I am, and.

[A]

It'S pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm only on day three.

[B]

Yeah. Which one are you taking? You on the black. Yeah, I do the black, too. I do the black and I do the tri blend.

[A]

Oh, you do two.

[B]

I do two.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Technically three, because the blend is a blend of three. Okay, well, so if you don't know about maca, it is a root native to Peru. It grows in three colors. Black, red, and yellow or yellow or yellow. Yellow or yellow. I take the black and I take the tri blend. My girl takes the red, and you take the black.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Typically, yeah, men take the black, women take the red, and then you intersperse the triple end. But it has a lot of benefits. I've been taking it daily for a little over a year. I have Noticed a lot mood, skin, hair, energy if you testosterone, you know, libido.

[A]

I've had a lot of improvements.

[B]

Yeah, all true. And we get. Well, I get our. I get my maca and I have been from a company called the Maca team. They are the biggest supplier of genuine maca from Peru. The biggest supplier in America. And they are nice enough to partner with. Partner with us and give a discount code. If you want to try out maca you can go to the maca team.com secondhand therapy and you can use code bear cub for 10 off.

[A]

Oh fancy.

[B]

So yeah, if you want to try some maca, try it out dudes. Try the black ladies, try the red or try the try but at least go to the website, read about it, see if you might want to do it. It's not pharmaceutical, it's all natural. I've been taking it for over a year. I like it. You're three days in, you're less annoying. So we did it.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

The mateam.com secondhand therapy. Check it out.

[A]

Hey, if you're tired of hearing these ads, which I'm sure you are, you should head on over to Patreon. There are ad free episodes and early access to episodes. You could be hearing this a week early along with acc. Along with access to a. An entirely different podcast. Some would say a better one. It is a show.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

It's non therapy related.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Super fun. Plus you have, you have early access. It is fun to my new podcast series Happy not funny. And it's ad free episodes on that as well. Merch discounts. Also fun live show things where we interact with the audience.

[B]

Live streams is what he's trying to say.

[A]

We are not going on tour. Yeah, that's true. What did I say?

[B]

You said live shows.

[A]

Well, same same, you know. No, it's like a live show. Nope, it's like a zoom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, you'll have access to us in a more intimate manner.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

Intimate. There's no end.

[A]

Yeah, like the candidate. Like the candies.

[B]

Intimate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also if you sign up, you get a little treat.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

So check out the different tiers. One of the tiers is just if you're just here for secondhand therapy, you want no ads, we'll send you a dope little sticker. And I'm going to be honest with you, a lot of time went into designing this sticker. Yeah, too much. You could argue too much. It's a dope sticker though. So if you Sign up for that tier, we'll send you a sticker. The next tier, if you want the other podcast, if you want the bonus stuff from secondhand therapy, all the little extras, you get the sticker and we going to send you a signed print designed by yours truly. That took way too much time. Still, way too much time. We'll sign it, we'll send it out to you. And then we have the top tier with the live streams. If you want to hang out with us a couple times a month, you get the sticker, the print, and we'll send you a T shirt that we are not selling or getting anywhere else. So check out Patreon. If you sign up, you get some treats and it's a good way to support the podcast.

[A]

We'll see you over there.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Yeah. How do you. How do you leave anger out of it?

[B]

Well, there was part of me that felt angry. I just. You just can't let that drive the car.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because also just being honest with myself, I'm not gonna hit him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Unless he hits me first. Like, I will defend myself, but I'm not just gonna go club him.

[A]

So. Yeah.

[B]

What does anger do?

[A]

Yeah, I guess I'm hearing it secondhand. I don't have the same attack. I don't know how close you are to him.

[B]

Not very.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[B]

You think that makes it easier or harder?

[A]

I think it makes it easier with anger and harder for everything else. Yeah, I think easier with anger because it's somebody that you love and care about and are close to. Like, if. If this in my situation, like, if this is Wayne. Easier with anger, I'm not gonna be like, I'm gonna knock this dude out or, like, put him in his place, but harder in the ways of being like, oh, I have to say something to Wayne. Like, I gotta. I gotta bring this up.

[B]

So I did the opposite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I did better in the harder situation. You got. Damn right. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Also dealing with the aftermath, with your mother and her feelings, How did you. Did you expect that?

[B]

What?

[A]

Because you said you expected kind of like how this is going to go down, but did you expect the. Her to kind of try to shut you down before anything escalated or before you could say anything?

[B]

Yeah. Did you already know she's trying to keep the peace?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Always trying to keep. Not. And not even keep the. I don't know if it's keep the peace, but I think it's just, like, because that's uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And be. I think because he and I aren't close. I think she's already, like, there's already a wedge here. Like, why do you have to make it worse? It's like, I'm not making it worse.

[A]

Yeah. I'm making it better, but it has to get worse before it gets better.

[B]

I don't even think it got worse. Yeah.

[A]

You know, in her mind, you know.

[B]

Sure. But, like, hey, yeah.

[A]

Moms be momming. Yeah.

[B]

And it's okay. We don't. We're not close. We don't get along. But, like, he's gonna know I'm a good man, and I'm for sure gonna tell him when he's not being one. I don't give a how close we are. Like, he shares a home with my mother.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, this. This isn't a keep the peace over Christmas. This is a character thing.

[A]

Yeah. So did you have a chance to talk to your mother about, like, again? Because this is new information. Like, hey, how often do you guys know. Having these con. These conversations.

[B]

No, that's not my business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. My mom is happy. She's very in love. She said he's very good to her. They had a fight. It's not my job to police that or investigate it or anything like that. Mom's a grown woman. Even if it did happen every week, and I go, you have to leave him. That doesn't mean she's going to.

[A]

Yeah. How easy is that for you to walk away from being like, hey, if. Again, like you just said, like, if that's happening every night, that's their business. Like that.

[B]

I don't believe it is my mom. I. Yeah, I trust my mom's judgment. Yeah. I trust that she, one, wouldn't put herself in a situation like that, and two, that she wouldn't put up with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's not a concern that that's happening. Yeah, that's not. And also, it's. He. He yelled.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There was no aggression. There was. It was nothing like that. How often does he yell when you fight? Who gives a. Dude, you know. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I guess I was thinking maybe it was more aggressive than what it was.

[B]

No.

[A]

And yes.

[B]

No. There was no aggression. There was no violence. There's no threats. There's nothing like that.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Can say that's how that has to be hard to, like, just not think about.

[B]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. You seem uncomfortable. Why?

[A]

I just. Ah. It's an uncomfortable situation and. Yeah. Just trying to place myself in it and trying to think about how I would deal with it. Man. Yeah. And, yeah, anger is still.

[B]

Okay. So you feel angry, and then what happens?

[A]

I want to prove that I'm angry. You know what I mean?

[B]

I do not.

[A]

Yeah, I want you to know that I'm angry. That's. That's it. I. I. If I'm feeling angry, and. And if there's aggression there, again, it goes back. It goes all the way back to, like, you're not gonna embarrass me, right? So, like, oh, you think you can yell at her? And you think you're gonna get away with this? And, like, oh, you didn't hear me ask you if we can go outside. Oh, now I'm amped up to 10, dude. So now you're gonna know that I'm angry. Even now I'm talking about it, and I'm like, what is it?

[B]

Okay, so they know you're angry. What does that achieve?

[A]

Nothing. Nothing. But it's. It's just. It's that old programming, right, of, like, Accomplishing things with fear, and that's not the answer. I know that.

[B]

What if they're not scared of you?

[A]

Yeah, that. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, it shouldn't matter. Like, I shouldn't be approaching it that way. Mm. So, yeah.

[B]

Why do you think it's important that people have to know how you feel? Because I think that's all. The feelings for you. I don't think that's.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Again, yeah, it goes back to, like, that. Oh, you. You think you're gonna get away with this? You're not.

[B]

But even past anger. Well, because, like, when you're sad, I think you like people to know you're sad when you're happy, when you're. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. That's probably just an only child thing about, like, somebody validate these feelings. Yeah. It's probably validation of feelings of, like. Yeah, you. You think you're gonna get away with that? No, no, no. You're gonna know that I'm angry. You're gonna. I'm gonna Whatever that.

[B]

Because they made you feel that.

[A]

I know you're. You're heavy on that, but it's cause and reaction, right? Like, so, like, if that situation never happened, then I would not be angry at that person. Right. Or that situation. So that's the way I look when you say things like, that made you this. Like, yeah. If that didn't exist, then I wouldn't feel that. So kind of. So, like, that's where I get tripped up on when that language. So, yeah. If. Yeah, I mean, I was younger now, younger then, but I. I had a. That story gave me the. I was home visiting. This is. I was 20, 26, 27 maybe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there was a little church that had rented out a space next door to us.

[B]

Your mom's house.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. And they were having these kind of like late night revivals at like 10, 11 o' clock at night. They would start, and I mean, I'm talking full bands. Like you would hear it seven houses down. All the neighbors were angry at this. They were doing it three times a week. I just happened to be home. This is just. This had just started about a week and a half. They just been there. I just happened to be home and my. And they were doing their revival thing and my. I was out of town when. When this happened. I found out about it the very next night. My grandmother and a neighbor went next door to tell them to just like, keep it down. And they went into the church and they were going so loud that they didn't notice my grandma and the neighbor coming in. My grandma's trying to wave to get his attention. He's up at the. The preacher's up at the podium and she makes her way to the podium, trying to wave him down and like yelling at him. He waves her up to the podium. He quiets the congregation and she asks him politely, hey, can you just keep it down? Like we can hear you this. It's late, it's like 11:30 at night. And he takes it as a threat and he takes the palm of his hand and he blesses her, quote, unquote, and smacks her on the fort. My grandma's 86 or 87 at this point, and puts the palm of his hand and hits her in the head so hard that she falls down. And then the. My neighbor starts to rush the podium and he's like, hey, man, what the. What's going on? And the guy pepper sprays him. Congress people or not congress people, the people in the congregation drag him out. And then they pepper spray my grandmother and drag her out. And then the cops show up and they do nothing because it's a church. I find out about this the very next night. I am raging. I. I remember very vividly in my kitchen at my mom's house with a bat. And I'm like, I'm going next door. And my mother pleading with me, begging me, do not go over there, do not go over there. I was so full of rage, I couldn't see straight.

[B]

So dramatic.

[A]

I just. I was Blacked out with rage, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I did not go over there. My mother talked me out of it. Yeah.

[B]

Where was your mom when this happened? Home, sleeping. Yeah, her mother's getting pepper sprayed and she's catching some Z's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dude, here's the thing.

[A]

Grandma sneaks out. Yeah, I could see Grandma would sneak out. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I would be home for Christmas and I would catch grandma shoveling her driveway or Walkway at 1 o' clock in the morning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, get in the house.

[B]

I know when old people can't sleep, they just do chores.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So, okay, you didn't go over there.

[A]

So anyway, they didn't go over there. But that story that you just told gave me that same feeling that I had where I was just full of rage and like, oh, you don't get to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't get to yell at my mom and, like, scream and like. And even now with all the therapy and stuff that I've done and knowing better about, like, hey, you don't solve anything with fear and rage and, like, all that stuff. I couldn't help that. Uneasy. Like, I don't know what to do with it. Like, you're like, you look uncomfortable. I'm very uncomfortable because. Yeah. My first reaction is his is rage still. And I don't know how you, like. Was there a lot of time that passed before you talked to this guy?

[B]

Yeah, five or ten minutes. That's crazy. You gotta get a hold of your emotions, man.

[A]

Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. A few years ago, I would have come out way hot and aggressive and intimidating and.

[A]

Yeah, I know better. I know that it's not the answer, but even that.

[B]

And also, like, yeah, it's not the answer and all that. But then I'm that guy in my mom's house, right? Like, what are we doing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, you just got to get a hold of your emotions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's going on with you? That was your holidays. Hey, spoiler alert. He didn't come to Arizona.

[A]

I did not. Yep. I did not.

[B]

We knew that, though.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man, I survived. I survived. I was. I mean, the theme of the holidays for me was loneliness.

[B]

This year, too, huh?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Now that's what we call a tradition.

[A]

Keeping the tradition alive. Yeah. I was talking to my therapist because I had therapy on Christmas Eve. The best gift I could give myself. And I was talking about the fight that I kept having with myself of feeling like I wanted to be around people and then not wanting to be around anyone. And there was a moment where I had seen on Tick Tock that they were doing this like special pop up thing at this pizza place that we like here in town. And they were doing you and I, goodbye. No, it was a different place. Prince Street.

[B]

Oh, I love Prince Street.

[A]

Right. And they were doing a special thing.

[B]

Are you tired of staring at your phone? Are you addicted to it?

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Are you?

[A]

Yeah. Well, yeah, like everybody else. Sure.

[B]

Okay. All right, well, I got a new. Let me tell these people about my new phone.

[A]

Okay? Okay.

[B]

It's called the light phone.

[A]

Oh, I've heard about that.

[B]

The light. Yeah, you seem to use it. The light phone. Also known some people call it a dumb phone.

[A]

Mmm.

[B]

Anyway, it's a smartphone, it has Internet, but the Internet will only get you navigation. There is no email, there is no social media, nothing like that. It does calls, it does texts, it does navigation. It has a calendar and a flashlight.

[A]

It's like having a BlackBerry again.

[B]

Kinda O. Yeah, I love that. It has a pretty cool camera too. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's got a dope camera on it. Got a camera. Yeah. Anyway, they were nice enough, they sent us a little discount code if anybody wants to get on the light phone train with us. So there's a link in the episode description for the light phone. And then if you want to pre order the light phone three use code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Try out a light phone. It's pretty great.

[A]

Stop your doom scrolling.

[B]

Stop your doom scrolling. Be more present in life link down below. Promo code. Secondhand therapy, all lowercase. Check out a light phone. Join us in the present world.

[A]

They were doing like a home alone pop up where they had like a taxi cab parked out front. And like it was all done up and there was like. It was. It was a Nero's pizza from Home Alone and like all this great shit. And I was like, I'm gonna go to that. It's gonna force me to be around people. It's gonna be like a Christmassy event. It's pizza.

[B]

What?

[A]

This is all the things like, let's get out of the house. I got dressed and undressed four different times. Same outfit, different outfits, same outfit. Oh. I was like, you're. We're going. And I would get dressed and I would even put my coat on. I would go downstairs and I'd be like, nah, I don't wanna. I'm not gonna do that. And I would come back Upstairs, I would get undressed, and I would get back in bed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, what the are you doing? Yeah.

[B]

What is this, Christmas Eve?

[A]

This is. This is the day before Christmas Eve.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so I'm like, just. Just go. Just go. And eventually I did. I got dressed and I got out of the house, and I drove over there, and I listened to Christmas music the whole time. And I thought you were gonna say it was over.

[B]

Well, they're gonna say I waited too long. They packed it up.

[A]

I got there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This location's not doing it. Yeah.

[B]

You thought it was every location.

[A]

I thought it was every. It's only the Los Angeles location.

[B]

You know what a pop up is, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you? Do you know what a pop up is? It's not a nationwide pop up, right?

[A]

No, but there's only a couple Prince street pizzas. So I thought, they're doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I got there. Yeah, it's empty. I mean, I'm talking. The whole casino's empty. It's Christmas Eve Eve. Ain't nobody there.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Yeah, hold on.

[B]

Yeah. You thought there was going to be a home alone pop up in a.

[A]

Casino food court at that Durango casino where they have, like.

[B]

I know where it is.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Onward. Yeah.

[A]

And the pizza they had left. It was, like, almost closing by the time I got there. The pizza wasn't even looking good. And it was all. I didn't even get pizza.

[B]

Where would they have parked the taxi cab Inside?

[A]

I don't know, man. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just wanted it to be real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I drove home.

[B]

Did you get lost? How lost did you get? Trying to find the house, you dumb bitch.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

And I went inside the casino, and there was no taxi cab. Macaulay Culkin wasn't there. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

[A]

So. Yeah, but this. I. I've had. I've had this struggle with the holidays on a couple occasions this year where I. There was like, a time, like, a few days before that I was like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna get some food. I'm gonna go see a movie. And. And I did. And. And I was feeling good. And then the movie had me in all my feels, and I was like, I just want to be around people right now. And there's, like, that bowling alley that's attached to the bowling alley, and it just. So, like, all the kids are out of school. So it was nothing but, like, high school kids at this bowling alley, like, slam pack, like, 200 high school kids at this bowling alley. And it just made me feel old and so, like, distant from, like, there's just families and kids and all this. All the things I don't have. I was like, oh, I got to get out of this bowling alley. So I kept seeking out these moments to be with people and then realizing I didn't want to be with anyone. And then I. I was talking to my therapist about, like, this loneliness that I'm feeling lately, too, with not only in that sense, like, the family sense, but it's also, like, holidays really me up in the love department. And what I was craving a lot was just like a slow mourning with somebody. And I know that I could have that, but it wouldn't be the same. You know what I mean? With, like, just like a random hookup or this or that. Like, it's not the same. It's not with somebody that you like. Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so my therapist was talking to me about, like, where I'm at with love and. And as much as I crave it and as much as I miss that and. And want it, I know that I'm not ready for it. And I know that I'm. Because when I think about love and when I think about relationships, it's so overwhelming. It's exhausting to me. I know that. I'm just not there yet.

[B]

You've still been going to coda?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Yeah. But I made a decision.

[B]

Okay. I'm gonna read the location on these pop ups. Is that it?

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Going in blind. Perfect. I made a decision, and that decision is, I'm done spending Christmas like this.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

I deserve to have my own traditions. I deserve to have my own identity. I deserve to be happy. And, yeah, I'm done. I'm done spending Christmas like this.

[B]

Good for you, man.

[A]

Yeah. I.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is there a plan of what to do next year?

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just. I just made this decision. I don't know. I'd like to travel, but I don't know. I don't know what that looks like yet. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Please don't wait until next December to figure it out.

[A]

You know me. December 20th, I'll be like, I'm buying tickets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To London.

[B]

It'll be four grand. You're gonna be like, I just stay home. That's why I'm saying it. Make a plan, please. Set yourself up for success.

[A]

I know.

[B]

What do you got there? Journal.

[A]

Yeah, I wanted to read a thing. I. I went. You know, it was the end of the year. And so I was, like, going through. And reading through my journal just to see where I'm. Where I. Where I'm at and where I've been. Yeah. So I. Yeah, I wrote. I wrote something the other day.

[B]

And.

[A]

It was like, I don't. I just. I wrote about the holidays and this and that. And I just said, I, you know, I deserve to be happy. I deserve to have my own life and identity. And then I wrote.

[B]

Is this dated?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the date?

[A]

This is the 6th. This is yesterday. Okay. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wrote.

[B]

Can I read it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You probably can't.

[B]

I.

[A]

It's all chicken scratch. I write fast and sloppy. I wrote, I'm proud of you.

[B]

Are you gonna cry already?

[A]

I think so. Yeah. Sin. I know, dude.

[B]

All right. That was. That was my last interruption.

[A]

Yeah. It says, I'm proud of you. It's so dumb, dude.

[B]

No, it isn't.

[A]

It's dumb.

[B]

It's not dumb.

[A]

It says, I'm proud of you today. You went to the DMV and you got your motorcycle license. Yeah. You set a goal and you actually stuck to it. And it wasn't work related.

[B]

Cross out, actually, you know, and it says, yeah, dude.

[A]

And it says, you deserve to be happy. You deserve to be proud. And that's something new. Yeah, I don't, I don't tell myself that. And. Trying something new, trying encouragement instead of picking it apart.

[B]

And is it more uncomfortable, the I'm proud of you or you deserve to be happy?

[A]

Oh, proud of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's wild.

[B]

Do you feel it or did you just write it down?

[A]

Feel it? I can't. I can't believe I. When I think about it, I can't believe I did it. It's so. It's so stupid.

[B]

You can't believe you did what? Hey, stop saying it's stupid.

[A]

I can't believe I did it.

[B]

Did what?

[A]

I, I, I did the work. I did the. I signed up for the classes. I did the written test. I actually showed up. I, I passed the test and I followed through and made an appointment and I went and. I did it.

[B]

And you can't believe it.

[A]

Can't believe it.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, you do. Why?

[A]

Oh, man, I hate this right now. God, I hate this.

[B]

We're back, baby.

[A]

God damn it. Because I didn't ask anybody for help. It was. It was something I did.

[B]

Can't believe it.

[A]

Can't believe it.

[B]

Can't believe it.

[A]

I just. I did it.

[B]

Yeah, you did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, dude. And we know that. Jesus.

[A]

That's a bear.

[B]

It's not.