Reporting Live: I'm Trapped | #134

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy – “Reporting Live: I'm Trapped” | #134

Date: June 22, 2026
Hosts: Louie Paoletti & Michael Malone
Podcast Theme: Two unlicensed best friends unpack real therapy journeys with humor and candid vulnerability, delving each week into mental health struggles, growth, anxiety, masculinity, and relationships.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Louie (“Lou Bear”) and Michael dive into themes of feeling trapped—emotionally, behaviorally, and socially. They dissect inherited family patterns, discuss the difference between reporting emotions and actually feeling them, and debate the struggle to break the cycles that keep them stuck. As always, their honesty is leavened by sharp wit and banter. This week, Michael shares therapy homework about identifying parental traits within himself, and both friends reflect on emotional habits that drive their sense of “stuckness.” The conversation explores anxiety, money, shame, ADHD, accountability, and the daunting task of making real change.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Therapy Homework and Parental Traits

• Michael’s Assignment: Explore which traits he’s inherited from his parents and how those have shaped his life.
  • Initially, his list is “all negative things” like addiction and anxiety ([09:12]).
  • “When I first started making this list, it was all negative things.”—Michael ([09:45])
  • Realization: Both parents were funny, but in different ways—mom (socially funny, expressive), dad (dry, sarcastic, dark) ([11:27])
  • Both parents wanted to escape their circumstances but at different life stages.
    • Dad wanted out young; mom felt stuck in later years caring for grandma.
  • Michael sees these “escapist” traits reflected in himself, especially post-standup comedy career ([16:34]).

2. Feeling Trapped: Internal and External Barriers

• Therapist’s Big Question: “Do you feel trapped?” Michael: “Yeah, but in different ways” ([15:56]).

• Michael’s Trap:

  • Ideal life vs. reality. He envisions himself as adventurous and social, but acts otherwise—immobilized by anxiety, shame, guilt, and especially financial worries.
  • “The things that hold me back are like my relationship with money…shame is in there a lot, guilt is mixed in there.”—Michael ([16:41])
  • Lou notes: Michael does spend money—just not on “big” things, instead, lots of small expenditures ([17:44]).
  • Social paralysis—overwhelmed when thinking of what to do, resulting in doing nothing and feeling regret ([21:56]).
  • "In my head…the life that I have…I am doing those things. I am being social…I am going out on a Saturday night…That is the life I want. So I feel trapped..."—Michael ([21:39])

• Lou’s Perspective:

  • Lou describes strong accountability but less emotional follow-through.
  • “If I'm home on a Saturday night…and I don't go. Yeah, I have no problem being like, you've really got in your own way on that one…and then I can let it go.” ([23:02])

3. Homework for Change: Planning for Social Success

• Michael’s New Therapy Task: Make a pre-researched list of local activities and venues so he doesn’t get overwhelmed by decisions in the moment ([26:17]).
  • Lou is skeptical: “This homework just sounds like, hey, go look at a wall for a little bit tight. I hope it helps.” ([30:44])
  • Michael explains that for someone with ADHD, researching in advance lessens decision overload ([29:10]).
  • Debate: Will a list help or simply provide more things he can overthink? Lou thinks Michael’s problem is with new things, not doing things at all ([33:04]).
  • Michael admits: “That’s part of my issue, is I don’t know what to do with myself.” ([32:42])

4. Safety, Hesitancy, and Social Needs

• Why Not Try New Things?

  • Lou suggests both Michael and his mother always “have a reason to not do something new.” ([32:03])
  • Michael feels he’s not adventurous but does seek social energy.
    • “I like the energy of others. I grew up…in groups of people. I miss that in my life. I miss the green room hangs…I miss seeing friends in different cities. I miss that part.” ([34:45], [34:51])

• Socializing vs. Being Alone:

  • Michael struggles to take first steps; often needs to be invited for new experiences.
  • Lou confronts what Michael actually wants: Is it community or the appearance of a “life worth living”? ([39:14])
  • Michael: “I want a life worth living…community, stories, experiences.” ([40:12])

5. Emotional Reporting vs. Emotional Experiencing

• Lou’s Insight from Therapy:

  • Realizes he “reports” emotions (labels & describes) but doesn’t actually fully emote or feel them ([48:27]).
  • “I’m great at reporting my emotions…I can tell you what's going on. But reporting them, evidently, is a bit different than feeling them. And who knew? Not old Lou Bear.”—Lou ([48:20]–[49:09])
  • Therapist says this keeps him “at arm’s length.” He can list emotions but is not in them.
  • Discusses practicing actual emotional expression, starting with anger in a safe space ([51:12]).
  • Lou identifies his emotional distancing as childhood/relationship-protection strategy ([53:34]).

• Sharing Joy, Guilt, and Sadness:

  • When asked to show joy after a family event (not just report it), Lou defaults to narrative.
  • His instinct is to “cannonball into the deep end,” expressing not just joy but also guilt and complex feelings ([68:31]).
  • Therapist: Try just expressing simple, direct feelings before the heavy stuff.

6. Performance, Authenticity, and Mistrust

• Michael’s Observation:

  • Accuses Lou of hiding mistrust behind “authenticity”—never taking things at face value ([57:04]).
  • “I think a lot of times you hide your mistrust behind authenticity…you’ll put it on that instead of mistrust…”—Michael ([57:04])
  • Lou disagrees, arguing it’s his style to challenge “performing” and opinion-as-fact, especially with people close to him ([59:33]–[60:18]).

• Emotion vs. Performance:

  • What’s the difference between genuinely showing emotion and performing? Lou feels stating emotion feels less performative than displaying it, as smiling doesn’t always mean joy ([62:04]).
  • “I often smile when I’m not experiencing joy. So…I could be having the worst day ever and…smile. That doesn’t mean I’m experiencing joy. That means I just had a funny, decrepit thought.” —Lou ([62:18])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Seeing Himself in His Parents:

  • “It was just interesting to see these parallels in my parents that I hadn’t noticed before…it started with humor…” —Michael ([10:52])

• On Feeling Trapped:

  • “The way I see my life in my mind…is very different than how it’s playing out. And I know…I know what I need to do, but…it’s something I’ve struggled with…” —Michael ([15:56])

• On Avoiding Big Decisions:

  • “The problem is when Saturday night comes, then I’m doing the research and trying to make a decision at the same time, and I get overwhelmed.” —Michael ([28:19])

• On Reporting Emotions:

  • “I’m great at reporting my emotions…But reporting them…is a bit different than feeling them. And who knew? Not old Lou Bear.” —Lou ([48:20]–[49:09])

• On Relationship Patterns:

  • “My last partner…used my emotions and vulnerability against me a lot…I didn’t know it at the time but, yeah, that relationship really changed me a lot.”—Lou ([53:34])

• On Social Safety and Adventure:

  • “If it’s a new restaurant, like, someone has to tell you, ‘I went here. It was good.’” —Lou ([32:37])
  • “I know that I’m hesitant a lot of times…But more times than not, I will do the thing—I just have questions first.” —Michael ([33:52])

• On Speaking for Others:

  • “How can you speak for my therapist? That is the level of ridiculousness on that.”—Lou ([64:55])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Therapy Homework Recap & Parental Trait Discussion: [09:09] – [16:34]
• Feeling Trapped & Financial Anxiety: [16:34] – [22:39]
• Preparation Homework and List-Making: [26:17] – [30:44]
• Lou Challenges Michael on New Experiences: [32:03] – [34:44]
• Community, Social Energy, Appearance vs. Experience: [39:14] – [40:21]
• Lou’s Emotional Distance Realization: [47:31] – [49:49]
• Reporting vs. Experiencing Emotions: [54:46] – [56:36]
• Performance and Mistrust Debate: [57:04] – [62:04]
• Joy & Guilt—Reporting vs. Expressing: [65:28] – [68:47]

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Conclusion

This episode unpacks the “traps” set by family legacy, shame, financial anxiety, and habit. Michael navigates the difference between wishing for a more vibrant life and the challenge of actual change, complicated by ADHD and guilt. Lou, meanwhile, peels back the deeper layers of his emotional habits, discovering the difference between knowing and feeling, reporting and being present. Their honest (often hilarious) discussion highlights how hard personal growth really is—how easy it is to see the trap, but how hard to kick the door open.

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Secondhand Therapy delivers another episode where self-doubt, growth, and humor walk hand-in-hand, holding up a mirror to the messy, wonderful business of trying to feel better and be better—together.

Transcript

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[Michael]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod hello, my little

[Lou Bear]

bear cubs, and welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. You're not on Patreon and I gotta tell you, you just missed a banger

[Michael]

of an intro over there. It's.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, I told you a story. Something happened to me at the gym. It involved another man who had his penis out. Now if you want to hear that story, head on over to Patreon. It's in the intro. Because the intros, we don't have to tell them about the ads and stuff. So we just tell stories over there.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Now we need to remind you that we're not therapists. We're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy. And this is not professional advice in any way. Please go to Patreon. One of the things you will get from that is no ads.

[Michael]

You're gonna hear ads ad free episodes.

[Lou Bear]

Also, I got the green light from Psychic Source. We can recommend specific psychics. Oh, so the people that us up, we can actually give out their extensions now.

[Michael]

Nice.

[Lou Bear]

Not doing it yet. I'll do it on Patreon.

[Michael]

Yeah, those files will get leaked on Patreon.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. So thanks guys for being here. We appreciate you. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can do [e-mail] secondhand therapypod as we said, you get ad free episodes. You get early episodes. Like I've explained very recently before, you do get an RSS feed, which sounds complicated, but it is not. What that means is your episodes will show up wherever you currently listen to your podcast. Spotify, Apple, Amazon, wherever. Or you can listen to them on the Patreon app. Up to you. You can also support the POD via merchandise.

[Michael]

That's right.

[Lou Bear]

Lately we are a hat store. The autistic maybe hats and the good friend hat are moving secondhandtherapypod.com you can also go to vasectomyfarms.com we donate a portion of all of that to women's reproductive resources. Do you want to tell them that

[Michael]

they can contact them about the What?

[Lou Bear]

They can contact us?

[Michael]

Yes, of course you can contact us. There is a P.O. box. You can actually send us physical mail, which we love. You can send us recipes or polaroids and cool stuff. Or you can send us Digital mail, which means you can send us little text messages or voice notes, and sometimes we read them on air.

[Lou Bear]

I don't know why you say that. We haven't read one on air in a year.

[Michael]

That's not true.

[Lou Bear]

All right, I need to say something.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

We cannot and will not respond to messages asking for advice or that imply any type of mental health crisis.

[Michael]

That's right.

[Lou Bear]

That doesn't stop people. But just to be clear, right, we're

[Michael]

also not going to send out our birth charts. Oh, that's in the other intro. Hey, if you're on Patreon, that joke makes sense. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Thanks for being here. Play the music now. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[Michael]

All right. Okay. Are you really?

[Lou Bear]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University, found some classes, bro.

[Michael]

Oh, you fancy.

[Lou Bear]

Now I'm out here.

[Michael]

He's a schoolboy.

[Lou Bear]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me, and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career, you want to start a new thing. Snhu, what about you?

[Michael]

I mean, I love to learn.

[Lou Bear]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[Michael]

I need to do it more officially.

[Lou Bear]

You never learned a thing. Anyway, if you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff. Start a new career. Do whatever you need. Go back to school. Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, Start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Michael]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Lou Bear]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Michael]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Lou Bear]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it. Okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic and trust me, and you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Okay, all right.

[Lou Bear]

Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Trying to see some.

[Lou Bear]

Some. Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just like a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Michael]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[Lou Bear]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10 you can. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it and then DM us because I want to hear how it went.

[Michael]

Oh, I can't. Please, please DM us.

[Lou Bear]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Michael]

I want the tea.

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[Lou Bear]

Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome

[Michael]

back second hand therapy. And we know that I had homework to do last week. Well, you know what we started doing? We started doing homework every week. I told him I was like, I need to find.

[Lou Bear]

We.

[Michael]

My therapist and I.

[Lou Bear]

You do it together?

[Michael]

No, he gives me homework to do. All right, I do it.

[Lou Bear]

You do it?

[Michael]

Yeah, I do it every week.

[Lou Bear]

Are you lying to me?

[Michael]

No.

[Lou Bear]

All right, tell me about it.

[Michael]

I do it every week.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

My homework. A couple weeks ago, look into big brothers, big sisters.

[Lou Bear]

Hey.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

How much are those kids? I wanted to buy one. Are they kids?

[Michael]

I told King Garo, sign up for big brothers, big sisters. And he goes, you're gonna get a big brother. Good shout out, King Gar.

[Lou Bear]

Did you like that joke better or my joke better? About buying the kids his joke. Why? You know, offensive.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Lou Bear]

Offensive things aside, which joke did you. Are you liked his better?

[Michael]

Still offensive.

[Lou Bear]

But mine wasn't deprecating. To you?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

You like the deprecating to you ones better?

[Michael]

Of course I do.

[Lou Bear]

All right.

[Michael]

Not from you, because you go for the throat. What? You keep it objective. I'd like that. Thank you.

[Lou Bear]

Keep it objective.

[Michael]

All right. Anyways, my homework.

[Lou Bear]

I'm on fire now. All right, good.

[Michael]

My homework was to. Let me start here.

[Lou Bear]

Here we go.

[Michael]

We've.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah,

[Michael]

we've been trying to work on self discovery and things like that. That's what we've been working on. And so my homework was to look at the traits that I have gotten from my parents and how has that shaped me and who I am.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

And when I first started making this list, it was all negative things.

[Lou Bear]

So you were being honest. That's good.

[Michael]

Yeah, I was like, oh, addiction. And, you know, worrisome and, you know.

[Lou Bear]

Did you get from your parents?

[Michael]

What? What do you mean?

[Lou Bear]

Didn't you just say addiction?

[Michael]

Yeah, I have addictive nature, for sure. My father was an addict.

[Lou Bear]

No, I know that. How do you see it come out in you?

[Michael]

I'm just saying these are the traits that I see in my parents. That's what we started with. The traits. Yeah. And what trickles down and. And yeah, I definitely think there's addiction with me. Yeah, for sure.

[Lou Bear]

Where do you see that again? Where do you see that come out?

[Michael]

I've seen it multiple times in my life. You know, it's like a mixture of hyper fixation and addiction. Yeah. I mean, definitely with the weed there for a little while. Like, man, I was. Yeah. But that was also a little bit of depression. Just a. Just a splash depression in there too. But, yeah, I have addictive personality. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

Anxiety, you know, all these things. And then I was trying to think of positive things and humor came up. And what I linked together were two similarities that my parents had but were very different. And it started with humor because when I thought about it, I was like, oh, I get my humor from my mom. And I was like, also my dad was really funny, but they were two different types of funny. Like, my mother was like, you have

[Lou Bear]

memories of your dad being funny?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah. My mother was like. She was like socially funny. She knew how to tell a joke or a story. She would make funny faces. She was like a lot of gestures and actions, you know, like, my mother was very socially funny, and then my father was very dry and very sarcastic and dark. And I. I have both of those. And then we started. I started looking at their lives and the other connection I made, they were both. They both wanted to escape and Couldn't figure out how. And it was at different points in their life, like they both wanted their lives to be very different, but at different times. And I've talked about it in the episodes, I talk about my father, about him trying to get out of town and, like, trying to figure it out and not wanting to be a factory worker and like, all those things. But that was when my father was in his, like, 20s and 30s, was trying to figure out, you know, a different way. And then when my mother was in her 60s, she was trying to figure out how she could change her life drastically and start over and get out of that town. And, you know, my mother had a lot of. A lot of guilt and resentment towards. I think I know Grandma and I know herself, and I think with my aunt a little bit too, her sister, because she always felt like she got stuck there taking care of grandma and so there for the longest time, you know, she. She felt like she couldn't leave. And she had this disease that, you know, she had Alpha one, which is like a lung disease. And so she had like this ticking clock that was already happening with her health. Like, eventually she would be on

[Lou Bear]

a

[Michael]

machine that helps her breathe full time.

[Lou Bear]

Like, that would.

[Michael]

That's. That was just her path. And she knew that. And she, I think in her 60s, you know, with my stepfather and everything, she was like, okay, how do I. How do I have a life with him that doesn't involve my mother? You know, my grandmother. And I remember the last few times I saw my mother, we had. We had talked about her escaping, we talked about her starting over and like, going down to, like, Tennessee or something like that. And like, but she was. She was waiting for something to happen with Grandma first. So, yeah, it was just interesting to see these parallels in my parents that I hadn't noticed before, because I always thought of them as being so different. You know, my father being, you know, with. With his struggles with addiction and like this kind of like brooding man and womanizer and, you know, all these things. And then my mother, who was so giving and funny and people pleasing and, you know, like, they couldn't be more opposite, and yet they shared all these things, you know, these desires at different times. And then my therapist hit me with, yeah, do you. Do you feel trapped? And I was like, yeah, but in different ways. And it was. I feel trapped in the way that. The way I see my life in my mind or how I envision my life is very different than how it's playing out. And I don't know. I know how to, I know what I need to do, but it's. I don't know, it's something I've struggled with my whole, not my whole life. I think it's like post giving up, stand up. I think like this, this start over thing, I just view my life very differently in my head.

[Lou Bear]

How do you view it? I don't understand, like.

[Michael]

Being more social, traveling more doing those things. But the things that hold me back are like my relationship with money. Also. Shame is in there a lot. Guilt is mixed in there. Like we were unpacking it a little bit. He was like, yeah, what is stopping you? What's going on here? And I was like, yeah, well, there's obviously the financial anxiety because I don't have a great relationship with money, which I am working on, but it's still not great. And it's very hard for me to spend money. And so even when I think about like getting away for the weekend, like, oh, I'm going to go to Dallas and see my buddy and it's like, oh, really? Do you have $1,000 to do that? I was like, no. Okay, then you're going to sit here and it's like, all right. Or even going to LA for the weekend or something like that. Like all of that takes money and it's hard for me to. It's hard for me to spend money on myself in those ways. I don't agree with that. Why?

[Lou Bear]

You spend money a lot.

[Michael]

Yeah. I'll buy a hat or something here and there, but I'm not going on a, A trip.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

You know, but that's what I'm saying. So like a $25 hat is very different than a 5 or $600 weekend somewhere. Sure.

[Lou Bear]

But you eat out a lot.

[Michael]

Sure.

[Lou Bear]

You go thrifting a lot. You spend money a lot in small chunks.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And I mean. Yeah, I do. I think you spend a lot of money. I think you. It's my, my perspective is it's hard for you to spend what you view as big chunks of money.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Even if, you know, we talk about, you look at your credit card, you're like, how did I spend this much money on food?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So I think you do. It just for you probably feels different.

[Michael]

Yeah, I think. Yeah. Yeah. The bigger expenses feel like, I mean, it's special occasion.

[Lou Bear]

Meaning what?

[Michael]

Meaning like it, it has to be like really, really special or work related for me to go. Or else what? You can't. Yeah. I don't have that money because. Oh. Because it goes hand in hand with the guilt and the shame, right? So the guilt and the shame side of it is all of the work and the things that I have to do or want to do here stops me from even thinking about getting away. So I'm like, okay, I got a free weekend coming up, man. I'd love to. I'll go to Dallas and see my buddy. So I'll do that. And I found some cheap flights. I'll do all that. Well, it gets to that point where I'm okay with spending the money on flights or whatever the. You know, great. I'm gonna go there, no problem. And then I start thinking, well, you know, you got this editing thing to do, or you got this the other thing, or, like, you should be working on that. It's like, yeah, I should do that. And then there's also the pressures of, like, what will other people think is what. I fight alongside that, too. Like, even when it comes to you and I. Where I'm like, I'm gonna tell Lou I'm go away for the weekend. Like, he's gonna be like, buddy, you're. You know, like, in my head, you're gonna be like, oh, going away, I must be nice. Or whatever the fuck you think. You know what I mean? Like, I battle that, you know, and even in a good way. Like, again, this is the fighting of. Of. Of commisery, too. Even if some. If a friend were to call, you know, let's say since we talked about him earlier, let's say Ken Gar calls me up, hey, what do you. What are you getting into? I'm going to Dallas this weekend. Da, da, da. I'm afraid there's going to be some kind of judgment there or something about being like, I don't know. I'm fighting against a lot of these things that aren't even real. And I know the logically. Hey, I know that emotionally. Very real. These people are going to be upset with me. They know that I have work to do. They know that I don't have the money to do this, so they're going to look at me and be like, what the fuck do you think you're doing? You're going away for the weekend? No, bud. And so then I just stay home. And even on the weekends where I'm not even, like, envisioning a getaway, I have trouble. Finding and committing to things that I want to do. Hey, I got a free Saturday night. What are we getting into, man? And then I think about every single thing I could be doing, and then I End up doing nothing. And then the next day, I'm upset with myself because I'm like, yeah, cool, man. Sat at home last night. Way to go, dude. You know what I mean? Like, the are we doing so in my head, though, the version of me, of the life that I have in my. And what I see in my head is I am doing those things. I am being social. I am going out on a Saturday night, just in town here or whatever. I'm taking the bike out or I'm going on a trip for the weekend or whatever to see some friends or to, you know, do whatever. Like, that is the life that I want. So I feel trapped in those ways of, like, trying to overcome again these things that aren't even real.

[Lou Bear]

So it looks like. Who's setting the trap?

[Michael]

Me.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, for sure.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

I feel trapped. Mitch, the door is not locked.

[Michael]

I know.

[Lou Bear]

Kick it open.

[Michael]

I know.

[Lou Bear]

Interesting.

[Michael]

Yeah. You don't have any of that.

[Lou Bear]

Nah, I'm. But I. I don't have a problem with accountability.

[Michael]

What does that have to do with accountability?

[Lou Bear]

If I'm home on a Saturday night and I feel like getting out and I see all the things and I don't go. Yeah, I have no problem being like, you've really got in your own way

[Michael]

on that one, huh?

[Lou Bear]

And then I can let it go.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I'm okay with the first part. It's the second part, the letting go.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

It really lingers. Yeah. And then it just. And it also. And then it adds up because it just keeps happening. And then it's like.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. Why does it keep happening, though?

[Michael]

Yeah, because, you know, I just told you.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

In my own way.

[Lou Bear]

I know.

[Michael]

I also know. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So does your therapist, like, what do you guys do to change it?

[Michael]

We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tag. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Lou Bear]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Michael]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. Yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Michael]

It's not a good day, and that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Lou Bear]

And you're married now.

[Michael]

Oh, no.

[Lou Bear]

Never.

[Michael]

Never.

[Lou Bear]

You're in love now.

[Michael]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Lou Bear]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Lou Bear]

Let's do one together.

[Michael]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Lou Bear]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you? Dude, you think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Michael]

I know you will.

[Lou Bear]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhandtherapy we love you.

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[Michael]

Well, the homework this week is to make a list of things to be doing the research up front, so it's not so overwhelming to make decisions. So my homework this week is to look at things that I think that I would be interested in when I do have those moments of being like, I want to go somewhere. I want to do something. Well, so what are some of the lists you're.

[Lou Bear]

You think you might be interested in?

[Michael]

There's this art museum here in town that I'd like to go to.

[Lou Bear]

Okay, we'll start over. That's not an art museum or a thrift.

[Michael]

Well, those are things that I like.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, that's two things.

[Michael]

Well, okay, I named one. You asked me what I had on

[Lou Bear]

my list outside of an art thing or a thrifting thing.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Lou Bear]

What you got?

[Michael]

I'd like to go to the Grand Canyon

[Lou Bear]

on a Saturday night.

[Michael]

No, I'm just saying in general, like, what do you want from me?

[Lou Bear]

I'm Telling you, I thought the list was, like, for when you're at home on a Saturday so you don't regret it the next day. I thought you were supposed to have a list of, like, okay, here's the things I've researched.

[Michael]

Yes. And it's also the other things as well, like if I have a weekend free or something like that. Yeah. Okay. There's a couple bars here that I like that I want to go to. There's a. They do a month. Or a weekly jazz night outdoors here in a park, Stuff like that. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

What it was.

[Lou Bear]

It was confusing for me to hear that he said, these bars I want to check out that I like. I'm like, do you like them or do you want to check them out?

[Michael]

I've been there, but I'd like to go hang.

[Lou Bear]

That's what I thought.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Any new things that you're actually. Because it sounded like the homework was to find new things to research.

[Michael]

No, the thing was just to find things.

[Lou Bear]

So what's. What do you research if you've already been to all of them?

[Michael]

Yeah, but the. The problem is when Saturday night comes, then I'm. I'm doing the research and trying to make a decision at the same time, and I get overwhelmed.

[Lou Bear]

What research are you doing?

[Michael]

Trying to figure out, like, hey, is there a band playing tonight? Is that bar open that I like? Is the. Is there art museum happening this late? Is this happening? Like, all of that? And then I get overloaded, and then I do nothing. So now I can just look at a list and be like, oh, yeah, there's that place. Or, this is the fucking new pizza place in town or whatever the fuck. Oh, yeah, there's that place. I'm going to do that instead of trying to narrow it down and make a decision. You know, that's how my brain works. So.

[Lou Bear]

No, I just don't understand how it's going to help at all.

[Michael]

Yeah, because you don't. Okay, so. And you're going to hate this. With adhd, I'm always thinking of all the steps. And so when I'm thinking of all the steps and doing the research, I'm getting way overloaded. So when I think about, hey, I want to go to that bar that I went to that one time, and it was. It was really cool.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Now I'm going, yeah, I wonder if they have music tonight. I bet they do have music tonight. I heard they did. Well, and they might not have it. They might have something going on.

[Lou Bear]

And I understand all that.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And then what research are you doing that you're going to write it down so you know all of that?

[Michael]

Yeah, so I'll know, like, hey, they do live music on Friday nights at 9:00pm okay, cool. Now, I know that this place, the. You know, the jazz is happening on Thursday nights and at this park. Cool. Now, I know that instead of being like, I think that place is doing jazz tonight. When is that? Is that monthly? Is that weekly? And then I gotta look that up and like, oh, that started at 4. I didn't know that. I wish I would have known. I already know. I can look at the list. Oh, yeah.

[Lou Bear]

All right.

[Michael]

My jazz things happen at 5. I gotta go. Okay, that doesn't make sense, Steve.

[Lou Bear]

I don't think it's gonna help at all. I don't.

[Michael]

You don't think it's gonna help to have some of these answers already answered?

[Lou Bear]

No, because then you have a list of 10 things and you're gonna go, oh, God, what do I want? I've seen you try to make decisions. It's hard for you.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. What? So I don't have an answer. Oh, okay.

[Lou Bear]

All right.

[Michael]

So what's the.

[Lou Bear]

This homework just sounds like, hey, go look at a wall for a little bit tight. I hope it helps. I don't understand why it would, knowing you.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

But, hey, I have a observation reflection that I do not think you're gonna like.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

You were talking about your mom. I don't know if you know about her.

[Michael]

Occasionally. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And how, as she got older, she kind of wanted, I think you said, like, maybe move down to Tennessee and things like that, but she didn't because your grandma. Her mom, what was it?

[Michael]

She just thought that she had to be around to take care of her.

[Lou Bear]

Your grandma's also one of the most independent, stubborn people.

[Michael]

Yeah, but she would also go to the hospital eight times a year. You know what I mean?

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

So

[Lou Bear]

my reflection and observation was you and your mom kind of always have a reason to not do something new.

[Michael]

I know you think that I don't do new things. I do new things. I think you can just say, do something, or you always have a reason not to do something.

[Lou Bear]

Oh, no, I think it's new things. That's my opinion.

[Michael]

I went to a new place last night and.

[Lou Bear]

Congratulations.

[Michael]

New thing. That's great. So did you go by yourself or

[Lou Bear]

did somebody have to?

[Michael]

Somebody invited me. Yeah, but it still counts as something.

[Lou Bear]

I'm not saying it doesn't. I've just. We've Talked about this all the time. Like, if it's a new restaurant, like, someone has to tell you, I went here. It was good.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Like. Or, oh, I went here. Like, you have to be told where to go.

[Michael]

Yeah. That's part of my. That's part of my issue, is I don't know what to do with myself.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. So then when you. The list, it's all like, okay, I like this place, but what night is music? It's. It's all stuff you've already done.

[Michael]

There's new stuff on that list, too. You were just asking me. Yeah. Like, for examples, and I was just giving you whatever.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah,

[Michael]

yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lou Bear]

I don't. I don't know. I don't view as having problem doing things. I view as having problems doing new things. Like, you'll go get a burger or go thrifting or go get a donut. Yeah, no problem.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

You know.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

But. Yeah. So I don't.

[Michael]

What if that's a safety thing?

[Lou Bear]

Oh, do you think I'm. Do you think you're terrified of everything new? What conversation did you think we were having?

[Michael]

I'm not terrified of new things.

[Lou Bear]

When you're ready to be honest with both of us, you let me know and then we can. We can start over. Then we can start over.

[Michael]

Am I terrified of new things?

[Lou Bear]

Are you? What do you think, Michael? Let's explore that.

[Michael]

I'm being for real. I know that I'm hesitant a lot of times.

[Lou Bear]

Why? Why do you think you're hesitant?

[Michael]

But I would say that more times out of none, I will actually do the thing. Okay. So for me, I don't look at myself as adventurous because I feel like that means that I'm seeking it out or that I'm doing it on my own or that I am, like, no questions asked. Like, you're like, hey, try this thing. And I'm like, yep, whatever. Take food out of it. Well, yeah, just any. I'm just saying, like, hey, do you want to go do this thing? And it's like, I have questions, but

[Lou Bear]

I have a question.

[Michael]

Yeah, but more time. But let me just finish. But more times than not, I will do the thing. I just have questions first.

[Lou Bear]

So you wouldn't say that you're adventurous?

[Michael]

No. Big. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

No, but it sounds like the way you envision your life is adventurous.

[Michael]

I would say social more than adventurous. Yeah. I like. And you're going to say this is codependency. I like the energy of others. I grew up. My house was the hang. We always. You Know, I grew up in groups of people. Like, I miss that in my life. I miss having. That's what I miss about tour. I don't miss the shows. I miss the green room hangs. I miss seeing friends in different cities. I miss that part of it. Like, that's what I miss.

[Lou Bear]

You like spending time with yourself, yet sometimes that's good.

[Michael]

Yeah, but that's a lie. But I do get energy from others, and I do like it. And I am a social person, and I wish my life was more social, not more adventurous.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So what's the struggle with it being more social? It's the overwhelm of.

[Michael]

Yeah. Yeah. Because even then, like, as. As social as I am or want to be, I am a wallflower. And we've talked about that before. Like, I am going to go to this cool bar that's playing music, and I'm not going to talk to anybody. And that's something I need to overcome and work on as well.

[Lou Bear]

So how does the list help?

[Michael]

The list just gets me out there. The list just is step one. The list gets me out of the house. Instead of me sitting there or sitting here at home being like, wish I was doing something.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, but you could. Couldn't you just. That's not a good way to phrase it.

[Michael]

Couldn't you just leave the house?

[Lou Bear]

No, I was gonna say, well, if you're gonna be at home, what's the difference between going out to a bar that has live music and being a wallflower? Why is that better than staying home and FaceTiming a friend?

[Michael]

I don't know.

[Lou Bear]

All right.

[Michael]

Getting out in the world.

[Lou Bear]

But if it's about social and energy, what is. What does it matter? The location? If you can have a FaceTime with someone you connected with and, you know, you enjoy.

[Michael]

Yeah. I feel like maybe it's just a time and a place. I can do that anytime. And, like, I don't know. I don't want to do that on a Saturday night. I want to go somewhere. I want to do something. I want to be out in the world.

[Lou Bear]

Why? What does the day and time matter?

[Michael]

Because that's when everybody else is out in the world. You know what I mean? That's when it. That's when the things are happening.

[Lou Bear]

That's when some things are happening.

[Michael]

Sure.

[Lou Bear]

Things are happening all the time, all day. Sure.

[Michael]

But the odds of something. The. The odds of live music happening on a Tuesday at that bar versus a Saturday of the bar are very different. So, like, I'll go on the Saturday when they're having live music, and it's like a social thing and there's more people there and whatever.

[Lou Bear]

Right.

[Michael]

All right. Yeah. That doesn't make sense to you.

[Lou Bear]

If the objective is to see live music at that bar, odds are better on a Saturday.

[Michael]

Yeah, sure.

[Lou Bear]

If the objective is to be out in the world and exist amongst others, anytime you're awake, you can do that.

[Michael]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So I guess I'm. I. I wonder if Two things.

[Michael]

Yeah. Love it.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. One, if you're being honest with yourself, and two, if you actually know what you want.

[Michael]

What would I be honest with myself? What am I not being honest with myself about? Like, the intention behind going, yeah, yeah. What else would it be? I don't want to be alone.

[Lou Bear]

I think my guess would be you find a lot of value in the appearance of having a life quote, worth living.

[Michael]

So,

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, that's my honest guess is that you then have those things to post about or talk about or you have. Now you have a funny story or,

[Michael]

you know, I think you're right about half of that. I don't care about the appearance of it. I want a life worth living. And I don't know, maybe it's a thing, too, where things just feel slower, too, since I haven't been touring. You know, I'm so used to being in motion that I miss being in motion or feeling that motion sometimes.

[Lou Bear]

So what makes a life worth living?

[Michael]

I think kind of what you touched on, like community and stories and experiences. I think all those things make a life worth living.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Well, good luck finding your life, man.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thanks.

[Lou Bear]

I hope you get it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thanks.

[Lou Bear]

How you feeling?

[Michael]

A little misunderstood. Not much.

[Lou Bear]

I don't think I'm understanding you.

[Michael]

Well. Yeah. And I also don't. I don't feel like you're believing me when I say that I miss the community and I miss the being in motion and stuff. I think you don't believe that. You think it's all about, like, you want something to post on Instagram. I'm like, that wasn't even on my mind.

[Lou Bear]

I don't think it's that. I don't believe you. Like I said, I don't think you're being honest with yourself because a lot of things you described, there's not a lot of community in it. There's attention and there's making people laugh and laughing at their things. Like, there's a lot of.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Attention in it. I don't think there's a lot of community in it. But we also are very different people who Live very different lives with very different aspirations. So maybe my idea of community is vastly different than yours.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Foreign. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Michael]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Lou Bear]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Michael]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Lou Bear]

All right, so here's the thing. That he already did it, okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, here's what you do. You go to try psychic source.com/sht10, okay? You're going to get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Okay, all right.

[Lou Bear]

Talk about my love life.

[Michael]

Trying to see some.

[Lou Bear]

Some. Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Michael]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Lou Bear]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20. Do it. And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Michael]

Oh, I can't. Please, please. DM us.

[Lou Bear]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Michael]

I want the T. I know we talk about betterhelp a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Lou Bear]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Michael]

I'm using BetterHelp. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Michael]

Not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapists is, like, a lot, like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Lou Bear]

And you're married now.

[Michael]

Oh, no. Never. Never.

[Lou Bear]

You're in love now.

[Michael]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Lou Bear]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Lou Bear]

Let's do one together.

[Michael]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Lou Bear]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Michael]

I know you will.

[Lou Bear]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com Secondhand therapy we love you guys.

[Michael]

I wrote a book, which still feels weird to say out loud. It is a collection of short stories and essays and faux journal entries. And it's, you know, all about love, grief, dating, loneliness, and all the weird ways people try to hold on to each other while they fall apart. Some of the stories are funny. Some of the stories are sad. Most are, you know, a blend of both. I mean, honestly, the book really isn't about love. It's. It's more about moments, like those awkward moments after an argument or the drive home after a bad date, or, you know, that silence after someone says I'm fine when you know that they're lying to you. Anyways, I am offering signed copies of the [e-mail] so if you've ever mistaken attention for intimacy or referred to distance as independence or, you know, love someone and then realized that that really wasn't the problem, then this book might be for you. And you can get a signed copy and stickers and bookmarks and all kinds of fun [e-mail] it's available in paperback, hardback, ebook, and the audiobook is coming soon, so there's no excuse. Go check it out. Velvettigerbooks.com there's never been a better time

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Michael]

What do you got going on?

[Lou Bear]

What do I have going on? Well, I. Before I get into therapy, I meant to tell you this in the intro.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

I got some bad news.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

We can't use the grill. We got Today.

[Michael]

Oh, no. It was so heavy.

[Lou Bear]

So heavy. So hot out. It was advertised as a propane grill. It is natural gas, and we don't have a gas line in the backyard. So bad news there that's going on. Very upsetting.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

I was checking it out and I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Anyway, I assume you're asking about therapy. What's going on?

[Michael]

Yeah, let me. Let me check. Yep, that's the show.

[Lou Bear]

That is the show. Well, we are working on exploring emotions more. We haven't still really haven't got into a lot of part stuff. We're still kind of exploring the feelings and how to get there, what it's like when I do have them come up and things like that.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So we're talking about emoting and. Very hypocritical moment for me. We have a very. One of our early on viral clips is me talking to you about showing emotion.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

When you said, I got no problem showing emotion. I'm doing it right now.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So she and I were talking about emoting and what I have learned about myself is that I'm great at reporting my emotions. I have no problem telling you I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling angry. I'm experiencing a lot of joy. I feel really sad. But reporting them, evidently, is a bit different than feeling them. And who knew? Not old Lou Bear. Lou Bear didn't know.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Huh. So what she was saying is when I. When I feel something, I will

[Michael]

report

[Lou Bear]

it because it kind of separates it from me. I. Then I observe it, I separate it from myself, and I can just tell you what's going on. It's like the way she put it is. It's like I'm keeping myself at arm's length. Wow. Real bummer. Real bummer to hear that.

[Michael]

Oh, wow.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Mm.

[Lou Bear]

It's like, have you ever see. You see interviews with, you know, women who have been sexually assaulted or people talking about childhood trauma, and they're just recounting it and you're like, hearing this horrific things and you're like. They're just saying. It's like. Because they're just reporting what happened. Like they've completely separated it from. And I just do that with all of my emotions, evidently.

[Michael]

How do you fix that?

[Lou Bear]

Hey, man. Suicide. I think. Getting comfortable with being vulnerable. Practice time. But.

[Michael]

But in the moments that you're feeling it, is it. Are you going to have to change your mindset to feel it instead of separate it? Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And I have to. It's. I mean, truly, it's about, like, baby steps.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Like, I'm only going to do it with my partner at first. Like, the safest relationship I have. And I'm gonna tell her because the easiest one for me is anger.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Like, anger. I can. I can emote anger, no problem. I can yell. I can swear, whatever. But so starting with anger, even. Because now what I've got is I'll truly go. I am. God, I'm feeling really frustrated. You know how.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

People I know be like, that really pissed me off. But, like, I shouldn't be having this reaction to it. Man, I feel so angry about that. Instead, I get to be angry.

[Michael]

Oh, no.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. But that comes with responsibility on my part, with my partner being like, hey, she knows I'm working on emoting more.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And just telling her, like, hey, none of what is about to happen is at you or about you, but I need to practice emoting, and I'm angry, and then I get to be angry and she doesn't. And I. She. She and I have talked about it. She doesn't get to be scared. She doesn't get to be. She doesn't get to fix it. She doesn't get to do any of that. I don't know if she can hold up her end.

[Michael]

I was just gonna say, this is coming from the man who said, you can't control how people feel in all this.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael]

Huh. Okay. It's very interesting.

[Lou Bear]

Hey, you know.

[Michael]

Yeah. What a. What a wild science experiment you have going on.

[Lou Bear]

This wasn't my idea. I'm just following instructions, bro.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So my girl has to do a lot of managing her own emotions and understanding that she's just witnessing a moment of growth, that she doesn't have to be in it with me. It's not about her at all. She has to trust me that I'm not going to lose it and tear up a room or whatever. And I have to trust her that she's not going to get scared or judge me or try to fix it.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

That sucks.

[Michael]

So all this time that you've been at arm's length with yourself is the. I mean, obviously it's a form of protection, but are you. Did you. Was it subconsciously happening or was there a switch at some point in your life that you were like, oh, I have to separate this.

[Lou Bear]

I mean, it's for sure subconscious. It's not a choice I made. I hadn't thought about that. My honest answer is, it happened in my last relationship.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. My last partner. Yeah. Used My emotions and vulnerability against me a lot. I didn't know it at the time, but. Yeah, that. Yeah, that. That relationship really changed me a lot. Yeah. But not a choice I made subconscious, but, you know, here we are.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So we were talking about the different emotions that I'm able to report on.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Which for me, all of them. I could tell you, man, I'm feeling really sad. I even. I'll even say I'm experiencing a lot of joy right now.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And she's like, okay, is there a smile on your face when you do that? And I go, probably not. You know? And she's like, how are the people around you supposed to know? To which I said, why do they need to know?

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

Why do they need to know how I'm feeling? Like, what's. What does that do for anybody?

[Michael]

Mm.

[Lou Bear]

And she goes, honestly, clinically, I don't have an answer. She's like, it makes relationships easier. And I was like, sure. But also, people all the time pretend they're okay when they're not, so who cares? And if you can ask somebody how they're feeling, it's only as honest as they feel like being. I was like, so what does it matter? None of it matters. And then I go, how does one even know how they're feeling? Because let's say I feel frustrated. And then I go, why am I having such a big reaction to this Now I have a feeling about the feeling. And what's that new one? Does anybody know how they're feeling?

[Michael]

What's up?

[Lou Bear]

And then she said, you know, I really love our sessions. You're a very deep thinker. And I said, don't stroke my ego right now. But seriously,

[Michael]

I don't know.

[Lou Bear]

Whatever. Anyway, I don't believe that anybody knows what they're feeling ever.

[Michael]

Yeah. Hmm.

[Lou Bear]

What's up, Smiles? Fuck's funny over there, dude. Let's hear what you got. What do you got?

[Michael]

What I hear from you a lot is getaway mistrust.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah.

[Michael]

You have a lot of trust, not only in people, but situations you're big on. But I think it's. I don't know if this might sound harsher than I mean it to be. I'm not trying to be, but I don't know how else to say it. I think a lot of times you hide your mistrust behind authenticity. So, like, being authentic. So, like, you'll. You'll put it on that instead of the mistrust of it. So, like, what you're saying is you're asking me If I'm okay and I'm like, yeah, I'm great, I can't trust that. Well, then what we get into a lot of times is, hold on, I gotta stop you.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, but I don't often feel or say I don't trust that.

[Michael]

No, but you think it, or you'll bring it up or you'll combat it.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, I'll say, you don't seem okay.

[Michael]

Or you'll say you'll make a statement instead of a question. Sometimes.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah, you don't seem okay as a statement.

[Michael]

Well, even further than that. You'll be like, no, you're not. Or you'll say, this is what's going on. Or like you. You have. You already have. Yeah. The answer before I see what you're saying, someone gets there or the situation is, or whatever. And what we get into a lot in conversation and on is maybe not a lot, but a couple times it's come up like how if that is the default, this mistrust is the default, then how can you truly enjoy anything in life? Because what I constantly get from you is mistrust. Hey, these people say this is the best pizza place in town. No, it's not. Okay. Or how can you go to that pizza shop with an open mind and think, this is really good pizza? Or how can you enjoy that? Or whatever. Or, hey, this album just came out. It's fucking great. Everybody's. Nah. Or I'm feeling great. Like, I, you know, here's what I think is going on. No, that's not it. Here's what's going on. So how are you opening yourself up to the world if the default is not to trust the world or what's actually happening?

[Lou Bear]

Well, I understand the point you're making. I don't agree that it's. All of that is rooted in mistrust. Because a lot of, like, a lot of the examples you gave is people stating their opinion as fact. And I just don't subscribe to that. And I find it annoying.

[Michael]

Sure.

[Lou Bear]

That has nothing to do with trust.

[Michael]

Also, I was just trying to find random examples.

[Lou Bear]

Like, I understand.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And also. Yeah. Like, yeah, I. Yeah, I don't agree with you. I understand the point you're making. I don't agree that it's rooted in. In mistrust. And I'll tell you why. If you'd like to hear.

[Michael]

Sure.

[Lou Bear]

I think the points you're making. We'll take, like, recommendations and, like, who gives a shit? Because, yeah, talking in absolutes about your opinion is stupid. If you And I. Or, yeah, we'll stick with you. And I. You and I have a conversation. You say you're fine. I go, I don't think you are. I don't do that with everybody. And I think if it was rooted in mistrust, I would have an issue believing anything anybody says to me all the time, which is not how I feel, nor do I really care enough if someone, hey, how's your day? It's good. And they look like they're going to cry. I'm not going to push it.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

But I know you. I have context to you. I have context to what happened to you yesterday. I have context to what you've been doing this morning. So challenging you in those places, even for me, is not in mistrust. It's in. You don't have to lie. If something's not okay, we can talk about it.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

It's not that I don't trust you. It's that it's more so calling you out on don't perform for me.

[Michael]

Yeah. But I often feel like you think everybody's performing.

[Lou Bear]

I do. In the. I think on some level, everybody's performing. I don't care about most of them.

[Michael]

Here's where performance comes in for you, though. Showing emotion, then do you feel like that's performing.

[Lou Bear]

Generally? No.

[Michael]

So instead of saying, I feel happy right now, if you just smiled, that would be. Is that performative for you? And that's why you have to state it instead,

[Lou Bear]

not consciously. Yeah, I. Yeah. Because I also often smile when I'm not experiencing joy. So for me, it's like, I could be having the worst day ever and then have, like, a dumb thought in my head and, like, smile or give, like, a little half chuckle. That doesn't mean I'm experiencing joy. That means I'm having the worst day ever. And I just had a funny, decrepit thought.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So not really.

[Michael]

I'm just trying to figure out the disconnect between showing emotion and stating it.

[Lou Bear]

Same.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

You know.

[Michael]

Yeah. Because even. I mean, this just happened between you and I last month when you were. Went to the hospital and you were like, I told you I was in pain.

[Lou Bear]

Well, that's not an emotion. That was physical pain. But.

[Michael]

Yeah. Yeah, but you. But you're. It's. You're not showing anything. You're. You're just saying, I feel pain right now.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Michael]

I feel bad. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, okay. But. And I think that's what maybe your therapist was getting at. Like, those are the moments that it's important to show those things and it's easier to communicate with others. Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

I got a problem with what you just said.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

I don't like. I don't like that you saying, I think this is what your therapist was doing. I think that is. I think it's. It's unfair, and I think it's also a little irresponsible.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Lou Bear]

Being that you don't know her, you weren't in the session. Like, it seems like a stretch.

[Michael]

Okay. Would you rather me say it like what I gathered from what she was saying? This is what makes sense to me.

[Lou Bear]

Yeah. You don't see a difference?

[Michael]

I don't see a difference.

[Lou Bear]

And I think this is what your therapist was doing, and this is my opinion.

[Michael]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying when I'm saying that to me, that's what I'm saying. I'm not making a statement of, like, I know your therapist, and this is what she's doing. I'm saying, oh, that's what I gathered from what you told me. That's what I gather. And that's the. Here's my. Here's what I think that means from what she said.

[Lou Bear]

Okay.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

That was a weird one. I was like, how can you speak for my therapist? That is the level of ridiculousness on that.

[Michael]

Yeah. I was just sharing a thought of piggybacking on her thought.

[Lou Bear]

Sure.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

Didn't sound that way. Sorry, I have to apologize. I'm just saying I didn't like that. Like, okay. Yeah. And that's also. You and I, we talk about this all the time. The difference of, like, yeah, I'm very intentional when I talk and you're not.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And that just is what it is.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

So we were talking about, like, an instance of, like, when did I feel joy?

[Michael]

Recently.

[Lou Bear]

And it was, My girl and I were in California. They were throwing a surprise party for her dad. I really enjoy spending time with her family, and I have some guilt that sometimes I even think I like it more than spending time with my family.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

And she's like, okay, let's. Like, let's say you were to communicate this joy. Not like, I'm experiencing joy, that you were to communicate the joy and also the guilt and the set, whatever comes from it. Like, you're gonna emote these. Couldn't do it. So I was like, okay, let me report it first. Let me report it first so I can get it out, and then I'll try. So I go, okay, so in this instance, I would be talking to my sister. I would say something along. The report would be, I spent a lot of time with my partner's. I just sneeze. I spent a lot of time with my partner's family, and I experience a lot of joy. But afterwards, I felt sad because one of the things I really enjoy about her family is how close her and her sisters are. And I feel like you don't have any desire to have that kind of relationship with me. And I'm sad that we're not close. I'm sad that we're not connected. And I feel guilty that I like spending time with them because their family feels like a family. And I feel like I don't fit a lot of the time with you. And I also experience a lot of joy with them because I've always felt very accepted by them and very welcomed. And I can tell that they put effort and intention into doing what they can so that I feel that way. And I don't recall a time feeling like you've done that for anybody. That was important to me. And then my therapist said, okay, so I thought we were gonna talk about it with your partner. And you just really cannonballed into the deep end there.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Lou Bear]

She's like, let's. Let's try to get in the kiddie pool. What if you were just to tell your partner you enjoyed spending time with her family? And I was like, oh. She's like, yeah, you. You know, you swan dive into the deep end on that one.

[Michael]

Yeah, that was a big swing.

[Lou Bear]

I was like, so, what are we doing here? She's like, we have to get in the kiddie pool. We're not even in there yet. And I was like, oh, all right. How would you tell me. How would you tell your partner that you had a great time with her family? And I was like. I would say I had a good time with your family. I enjoy seeing you and your sisters and, like, the relationship you have. It's really nice. She's like, and that sounds joyous to you? And I go, hey, I don't have another way of communicating that, because anything further than that, I feel like I'm acting. And I was like, I don't. Like. It's just acting like it feels like I'm doing a scene or, like, being this bubbly person that I'm not. It just. It feels very performative. And she said, do you think it's performative, or do you think it's just uncomfortable? Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you.

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[Lou Bear]

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[Lou Bear]

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[Lou Bear]

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