Vulnerability or Die... Easy Choice | #130

Summary

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Secondhand Therapy Episode #130: Vulnerability or Die... Easy Choice

Podcast: Secondhand Therapy
Host: PonyBear Studios (Louie Paoletti and Michael Malone)
Date: May 18, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode dives deep into the challenges of vulnerability, grief, anxiety, self-worth, and how childhood experiences shape adult relationships. Louie and Michael candidly (and humorously) dissect their own emotional dynamics, focusing on why personal growth is so difficult, and how feeling cared for can be complicated—especially for men navigating masculinity and self-worth.

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Overview

With their trademark blend of honesty and humor, Louie and Michael openly reflect on their therapy revelations from the past week, discussing vulnerability, emotional blockages, and why receiving love and care often feels more threatening than comforting. The episode features poignant stories from their pasts, lighthearted banter, and some raw admissions about grief, anxiety, and the inherited patterns that shape our abilities to give and receive love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Psychic Experience & Immediate Vulnerability

• The episode kicks off with Bear (Michael) describing a recent session with a clairvoyant (08:46), who immediately called out the deep grief he carries from childhood, especially connected to the loss of his father.

  • Memorable quote:

    “She went straight for the throat... told me I have such deep grief inside of me that... I’m afraid if I start addressing it, I’ll never stop crying.” — Bear (09:29)

• This leads into a discussion about how relationships peel back layers of defensiveness, ultimately exposing the unresolved grief and making deep vulnerability feel dangerous.

2. Grief, Avoidance, and Family Patterns

• Bear recounts losing his father at age 12 and reflects on his mother’s avoidance of emotion:

  • “She just acted like it didn’t happen at all. Business as usual. Like, keep it moving. What are we gonna do, sit around and be sad?” — Bear (12:20)

• They explore how this modeled emotion-avoidance, making it difficult to process or even identify feelings later in life.

• Bear shares memories of his grandfather’s awkward (and anxiety-inducing) attempts to bond after his father died, highlighting his unrecognized childhood anxiety. (15:28)

3. Anxiety as Armor

• Bear connects his adult anxiety to childhood experiences (flying for the first time, traveling with his grandfather), admitting he “always chalked it up to just being like, oh, that’s just mom talking” (17:35).
• The clairvoyant insight is that Bear’s anxiety "protects" him from facing grief in relationships, functioning as a defense mechanism (18:26).

4. Relationships, Codependency, and Emotional Safety Nets

• Bear and Pony analyze recent relationships—how Bear’s anxiety and need for control (distance, ripcords) both push partners away and reinforce beliefs of unlovability (19:04–23:31).

  • “If I can focus on [anxiety], then it validates a reason to leave. So before you can hurt me... I already have a reason to get out of here.” — Bear (19:04)

• They discuss the whiplash of seeing a partner intermittently, withdrawal-style depression after visits, and struggling to “show up” emotionally (23:36).

5. Needs, Vulnerability & the Definition of “Adored”

• Pony shares a vulnerability prompt from his therapist: “How often do you let yourself feel loved, cared for, and adored?” (29:46–31:58)

  • This question stumps Pony, who admits associating such feelings with weakness or neediness (“What am I, a little toddler boy?” – 32:12).
  • They detangle love, care, and adoration—especially their differences and connections in adult relationships, often finding that their definitions and emotional availability don’t line up with their partners’ needs.

• Bear reflects on his own difficulties accepting care or kindness: “That’s where love shows up.” — Bear (37:21)

6. Childhood Influences on Adult Intimacy

• Pony and Bear explore how their mothers’ styles shaped their ability to receive love.
  • Pony: Mother focused on providing, not nurturing, making any extra care feel “inconvenient” or guilt-inducing (39:18).
  • Bear: Mother was nurturing to a fault, so adult care from partners feels undeserved or risky (“I can’t have any needs or set boundaries... If I do that, then they’re gonna come to their senses and leave.” – 42:26).

7. Guilt of Being Cared For & Breaking Cycles

• Pony tries to apply his therapist’s advice to take small moments (“like someone filling up your water bottle”) as acts of love (50:19).

  • Bear admits these make him feel guilty or undeserving—tied to fat-kid insecurities and fear of being “too much.”

• Bear and Pony recognize that receiving care feels loaded, whether from weight-related shame, fear of inconvenience, or habits of self-sufficiency (“That’s what moms do. What do partners do?” – 53:05).

• They speculate about the “solution”—becoming mindful and present enough to choose feeling loved, despite ingrained resistance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On being vulnerable:
  • “She told me... the reason these relationships don’t work out for me is because it peels back these layers of vulnerability until I get down to dealing with my grief—and I’m afraid I’ll never stop crying.” — Bear (09:31)
  • “How do you even begin to process your feelings if you’re worried about how you should feel?” — Pony (28:07)
• On needs and love:
  • “Talking about needs and wants and things like that... I feel like are pretty vulnerable. Especially needs for me—needs are huge.” — Bear (29:14)
• On adoration:
  • “How often do you let yourself feel loved, cared for, and adored?... It feels similar to having needs—meaning that I’m needy.” — Pony (32:07)
  • “I think adored... it’s almost like, like, I attach it to, like, a celebrity... so when your partner’s like, ‘I just, I love...’ they’re just hard-eyed towards you.” — Bear (31:02)
• On guilt and caretaking:
  • “Where do you put the guilt of like, oh boy, we’ve done it? What, for breaking the window? You didn’t think about that, not once?” — Bear (49:47)
  • “If you think that you need to fill my water bottle all the time, then... it just adds to the list of why you’re going to leave me. This guy can’t even fill up his own water bottle.” — Bear (51:10)
  • “That’s what moms do. What do partners do?... Partners shouldn’t have to do that.” — Bear (53:05)
• Radical honesty about past wounds:
  • “My love stuff isn’t attached to my mother. My love stuff is attached to my weight... I’m not deserving of love because I was overweight.” — Bear (41:35)
  • “I link a lot of self-image to self-love.” — Bear (56:41)
• On mindful gratitude:
  • “I could take a minute and be like, that’s a really nice act of love. Look at her taking care of me... I just started looking for little tiny acts of service—this is how I can choose to feel loved and cared for.” — Pony (50:19)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [09:31] – Michael’s clairvoyant session brings out the core theme of unresolved grief and fear of vulnerability.
• [12:20] – Exploring how family models emotional avoidance.
• [15:28] – Childhood anxiety and attempts at grandparental bonding.
• [18:26] – Anxiety as a protective device; avoidance of grief.
• [23:04–23:31] – Relationships and anxiety’s role as both cause and scapegoat.
• [29:46–31:58] – Turning point: “How often do you let yourself feel loved, cared for, and adored?”
• [37:21] – Admitting where love truly “shows up” for them.
• [39:18] – How “inconvenient” they feel when cared for, learned from childhood.
• [41:35] – Bear’s weight as the source of unlovability and relationship insecurity.
• [50:19] – The challenge of receiving and accepting care, and choosing to feel loved in small moments.
• [56:41] – Self-image and self-love, and how this undermines their capacity to accept affection.

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Tone & Takeaways

The chemistry between Louie and Michael is marked by playful sarcasm, warmth, and profanity-laced vulnerability—lighting up even the heaviest topics with humor (“Tell Papa. Is it Mama? Tell Papa, is it Mama?” – Pony, 38:19).

Central lesson:
Personal growth, especially when it comes to vulnerability and self-acceptance, is a continuous, unglamorous process, colored by past wounds and shaped by everyday choices—to be open, to feel love, and to let oneself be cared for.

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For Listeners:
If you’ve ever struggled to show needs, accept help, or shake the weight of childhood patterns while trying to be vulnerable in adulthood, this episode is a must-listen. The conversation is raw, real, and often hilarious—making it a moving but approachable meditation on why vulnerability isn’t just an easy choice, but a daily, uncomfortable, and necessary one.

Transcript

[Bear]

Secondhand Therapy is presented by Pony Bear Studios. For ad free episodes, head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapy pod okay, before

[Pony]

we get into anything, I want to say a big, very sincere, gigantic thank you to Tanya.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

If you're listening, we get mail here and there. It's not all this memorable, I'll tell you that.

[Bear]

Such a sweet card.

[Pony]

She sent us a great card. She sent something for my girl who was very thrilled one, to be included, but two, thought it was a very thoughtful gift. She passes along her thanks. Tanya is a third grade teacher and sent us a bunch of her kids writings. And as we know, sometimes you have to get in touch with your inner child. So we're going to be reading one every week here.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

So write a positive slash kind message below. That will help someone to have a great day. So we're going to read Jalen. Jalen says if you're feeling sad, I would say you're uniquer than a unicorn. And that's adorable.

[Bear]

That's.

[Pony]

So we're not going to talk about the misspellings now. Next, give some advice to have the best day ever.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Pony]

Jalen says if you want to have the best day ever, you should go do something fun like go to the water park.

[Bear]

Love it.

[Pony]

Shout out to Jalen.

[Bear]

Love it. Uniquer than a unicorn.

[Pony]

Uniquer than a unicorn. We need to remind you that we're not therapists, we're not experts. This is not a substitute for therapy and this is not professional advice in any way. Tanya, we love you so much. Thank you.

[Bear]

Thank you.

[Pony]

I couldn't find your last name anywhere on that mail. So just Ms. Tanya, Ms. Tanya, appreciate you. Thank you for being here. That's for everybody. What else? Well, go do some Jalen stuff, be a unicorn, go to water park and then after that go on over to Patreon. Okay.

[Bear]

Over there.

[Pony]

Patreon.com Secondhand therapy pod. You can get a bunch of stuff. You're gonna get early episodes. You can get ad free episodes. You can get our whole other podcast live stream access. There's a bunch of stuff. Please go check it out. It's a good way to support the podcast. I'm in the process of setting up a discord. We have a group chat on Patreon. I'm going to set up a discord. We got a bunch of stuff going on.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Pony]

We have merch available, like this hat I'm wearing like nothing. He is wearing like a lot of the shirts we wear. Secondhand therapypod.com A lot of new shirts out, a lot of new colors because too hot for hoodies. So got some new colors and some stuff. If you want to support women in any way, you should. One way you could do that is by going to vasectomyfarms.com you get some pretty cool stuff, and we donate a big chunk of that to women's reproductive resources.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

And that's what's going on.

[Bear]

Oh, you can contact us, much like Ms. Tanya did.

[Pony]

Oh, yeah.

[Bear]

Send this mail you. Do we have a P.O. box? Or you can send us digital mail, like text messages or voicemails, and we sometimes read them here on air and do all that fun stuff. So, yeah, all that information's below or on your screen right now if you're watching this.

[Pony]

We've. We've been talking a lot lately about maybe of these. A lot of the texts and voicemails we get are asking for advice. Yeah, we've been talking about maybe doing it.

[Bear]

Yeah. So

[Pony]

go ahead and contact us. We might. We might start doing some advice segments here and there. You know, see how quickly we get sued.

[Bear]

Some bad advice.

[Pony]

Oh, God, it's horrific. Thanks for being here again. You're going to hear some ads Patreon, if you want to skip them. Appreciate you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Bear]

Enjoy the show.

[Pony]

Enjoy the show. I'm feeling a lot better, even though I sound like this. Okay. Enjoy the show. You know how I keep telling you I'm doing a psychology class? Doing it.

[Bear]

All right. Okay. Are you really?

[Pony]

I'm really doing it, dude. Our new sponsor, Southern New Hampshire University. Some classes, bro.

[Bear]

Oh, you fancy.

[Pony]

Now I'm out here.

[Bear]

He's a schoolboy.

[Pony]

Hey, and here's the thing. If you're like me and you're just like, dude, I like learning stuff sometimes. Snhu, go learn some stuff. If you were like me in the past, maybe you feel a little stuck in your career. You want to start a new thing. Snhu. What about you?

[Bear]

I mean, I love to learn.

[Pony]

Oh, God, he's never learned.

[Bear]

I need to. I need to do it more officially.

[Pony]

You never learned a thing anyway. If you want to check out SNHU and you want to see what kind of programs they have, you can go to Snhu. Edu Sht and you can request more information. It costs nothing to request more information. It's a great way to support the podcast. Learn some stuff, start a new career. Do whatever you need.

[Bear]

Go back to school.

[Pony]

Snhu. Edu Sht. There's also a link in the episode description. Get some info, start some learning. You're welcome. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Bear]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Dude, they do that.

[Pony]

They do mediums. They got mediums, right?

[Bear]

I'll take a large medium.

[Pony]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it, okay? Now, here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do you. Here's what you do. You go to trypsychic source.com sht10.

[Bear]

Okay?

[Pony]

You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Bear]

Okay, all right.

[Pony]

Talk about my love life.

[Bear]

Trying to see some. Some.

[Pony]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Bear]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Pony]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20.

[Bear]

Do it.

[Pony]

And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Bear]

Oh, I can't.

[Pony]

I.

[Bear]

Please, please, DM us.

[Pony]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Bear]

I want the tea.

[Pony]

Hello, my little bear cubs.

[Bear]

And welcome back secondhand therapy. We know that your girl turned me on to a clairvoyant from our little network.

[Pony]

Really glad the word a clairvoyant came by, I'll tell you that much. Yeah, I didn't. I immediately was like, the. Is he going to be talking about here?

[Bear]

Really? The defenses went straight up.

[Pony]

Your girlfriend turned me on. Keep talking, guy. Hey, bro. I don't know what you're up to.

[Bear]

Yeah, man. Yeah. Our little psychic network that we have sponsored with the show. Oh, buddy. Yeah, I know. We've already talked a little bit about, like, we both talk to a medium. And that, you know, wrecked me.

[Pony]

I haven't done the clairvoyant yet. And honestly, the experience that you two had. I'm a little scared.

[Bear]

Yeah. It's the first time I've ever. I've ever been with one. It's the first time I was nervous.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

I've had my cards read and like all that stuff, but never yet.

[Pony]

Yeah, so have I.

[Bear]

We're not gonna talk about that. What a terrible experience.

[Pony]

That was the worst. Anyways, now are we supposed to go again when you go back?

[Bear]

Yes. Were we?

[Pony]

Nope. That's how you wanted to have my card ready. You don't think as soon as we left the door, you're like, I got. We got. Let me make up for this. Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

He said, were we

[Bear]

all right. Yeah, I. So I called her. I called her up. That's clamboyant.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

And, buddy, she hit me with. She went straight for the. For the throat. Dude, she. We got to talk about relationships. And she told me.

[Pony]

Is it romantic?

[Bear]

Romantic relationships?

[Pony]

Okay.

[Bear]

She told me that. That I am. That I have so much.

[Pony]

Open your eyes.

[Bear]

I don't want to.

[Pony]

We're 45 seconds in, you're already sleeping.

[Bear]

I know. Okay, wait, I gotta go. Night night.

[Pony]

You know what? Close your eye. Okay.

[Bear]

I gotta go night night.

[Pony]

Do what you need to do for safety.

[Bear]

Okay. So she told me that I have such deep grief inside of me that. My God. That. That the reason these. A lot of these relationships don't work out for me is because it peels back these layers of vulnerability until I get down to the. Dealing with my grief. And that I have so much of it that I am afraid that once I start addressing it, I will never stop crying.

[Pony]

I'm never gonna call this woman. Buddy, she gotta mind your business.

[Bear]

You gotta hang up after that.

[Pony]

You gotta mind your business.

[Bear]

That's not what's happening.

[Pony]

Okay. So you have so much grief that you're running from that when you're in a relationship.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

The vulnerability of the relationship is too much because you will eventually get down to the grief.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

And then life's over.

[Bear]

Yeah. And then I just can't. I won't be able to pull myself out of it. I'll just forever grieve.

[Pony]

Do you think she's right? Is she onto something?

[Bear]

Oh, yeah. I mean, this goes all the way back to, like, you know, what we talk about all the time, which is, like, I was never taught how to process.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Any of that. Emotions. Grief or anything. And. Yeah, man. So that's why I've been running from it.

[Pony]

Do you think your mom ever processed anything like, I know you're doing hindsight,

[Bear]

but I was just thinking about that the other night. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Because I got in a conversation and somebody was talking about their mother and their behaviors after grief, and it got me thinking about how my Mother was. After my dad died when I was 12, which. Sidebar. The clairvoyant knew that. She knew what? She mentioned my father dying and nailed that. I was 12 years old when it happened.

[Pony]

Yeah, I don't like that.

[Bear]

I. I don't know.

[Pony]

She gotta mind her business.

[Bear]

Yeah, dude, I didn't like that. My mother never. The person I was talking to was saying that their mother didn't really like, was. Was inconsolable. So they didn't know how to show up. And so they were just kind of like left to fend for themselves. And I was the same way, only in a different way. Like, my mother wasn't inconsolable or anything like that. She just acted like it didn't happen at all. It was just business as usual. Like, keep it moving. What are we gonna do? Sit around and be sad?

[Pony]

Like, do you remember your dad's funeral?

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Whoops.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Sorry about that.

[Bear]

Yeah, I haven't thought about that in a while.

[Pony]

That's my fault. Sorry about that.

[Bear]

It's okay. I. Dude, it literally, it just. I immediately went back to. There's a funeral home in. In my little small town where everybody goes to, like, it's. It's the one.

[Pony]

Is that where your mom's was? Yeah, I've been there.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Okay.

[Bear]

Yeah. But there's a staircase by the entrance. And I. As soon as you brought that up, like, I spent most of the time sitting on that staircase as people came in and out. And I was kind of. I don't know if I was purposely avoiding it or not. About interactions with people or. I just didn't know what to do with myself because I was 12 and there's a lot happening.

[Pony]

Where was your mom?

[Bear]

By the casket. Yeah. And I was there for, you know, on and off.

[Pony]

But she let you be outside?

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah, she let me. It was like. It was inside, but upstairs, like on the stairs. So, yeah, I spent most of the time there.

[Pony]

Did your mom talk? She gave you eulogy?

[Bear]

I think so. I would im. I don't remember, but I would imagine she did. I think I said something. I.

[Pony]

She cry?

[Bear]

I don't think so.

[Pony]

Wow.

[Bear]

Jew. No, I didn't know really how to feel. Is it this? It was. It was like two things happening at once. It was my. My father, but at the same time, this guy, I don't really know. Yeah. He was so in and out of my life. It was like. I feel like I should be sadder than I am. And there's a lot of people here that are Upset. And so. Yeah, that's more. So what it was was feeling like, oh, I think I should be more sad, but I don't really know him.

[Pony]

A lot of people were sad, though.

[Bear]

Yeah, my dad had a lot of friends and, Yeah, a lot of buddies in town.

[Pony]

They were all sad. They're like, I'm never gonna get that money back.

[Bear]

Exactly. My dad, yeah, he had a little group of friends there, like six or seven guys that he would hang out with all the time, and they would golf and do all that stuff. And then, you know, my. My dad had brothers and a sister, and, you know, his mom and dad were still alive, so they were there.

[Pony]

And did you have a relationship with them? Grandma. Grandma.

[Bear]

Dude, this is. I think about this. I. I think about this when I think about my anxiety and not knowing that I had anxiety for so long or not recognizing it. My grandfather was trying to bond with me one time, and this is after dad died, and he had a cabin up, like, three hours north in Ohio, middle of fucking nowhere. Nowhere. And I remember, like, he's like, I'm gonna take you up to the cabin for the weekend. And I was like, okay. And I didn't really know him or have a relationship with him that well, and it was, like, taking me away from my mother. And, like, it was the first time I had that. And I had a lot of anxiety looking back on it, which I didn't know was that at the time. And we drove three hours up to this place, stop and got food. And the whole time, I'm like, I want to go home. I want to go home. And he's out loud yet to him, I was like, hey, I. I don't. I don't know about this. Like, I want to go home. And he's like, oh, I'd be fine, you know, like, doing the. The dad or grandpa thing, you know? Yeah, fine. And we got to the cabin, and I remember it's just like a cot in this wooden, like, log cabin out in the middle of the woods. And I rem. Crying and crying and couldn't stop crying. And I was like, I just want to go home. I just want to go home. And grandpa loaded up the car and drove me home and dropped me off.

[Pony]

It's a good grandpa, at least. Yeah, at least. He, like, was like, hey, all right.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

So you were, like, 12, 13.

[Bear]

Yeah. And that is pure anxiety. Yeah. And I had no idea, dude.

[Pony]

I saw something about the first time you told me. You told me about your first time fly. You were. You were like 20 or 21.

[Bear]

Yeah. So, yeah, I was like, yeah, 19, 20 somewhere.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

And you cried.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Scared.

[Bear]

Scared. Yeah. Still didn't know I had anxiety.

[Pony]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bear]

Yeah. Didn't know what that was.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Just felt like something new and unfamiliar and like, I didn't know what was gonna. I thought I always. I always put it back on my mother and, like, just growing up with, like, worst case scenario, she is. She is the gold winner of worst case scenario. She will find the, you know, something bad about whatever's happening no matter what. And so I always chalked it up to just being like, oh, yeah. I'm just conditioned to think that. So, like, if I'm getting on this plane, it's gonna crash or it's gonna do this or it's gonna do that. Like, I've never been on a plane. Just spirals. And I just thought, oh, yeah, that's just from. That's just mom talking. Like, I gotta shake that off. And it's like, it is, but also.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah. So that anxiety that I've had and I've not known about it till recently and started unpacking and really examining it and noticing it, like, she brought that up as well. She told me that the anxiety that I have protects my grief. And that's what causes me to run or get out of situations or do whatever, because it's. It's protecting. Uncovering that. That deep grief.

[Pony]

How so? I don't think I.

[Bear]

Like, in my last relationship, distance was a big thing for us. Well, for me. And the anxiety of, like, when am I going to see you? Like, what's going to happen? Like, how often? Like, all those things. Sure, some of that is codependency, but there's a lot of anxiety there. And if I can focus on that, then it validates a reason to leave. And so before you can hurt me or before we get to, like, the real shit, I already have a reason to get out of here. And anxiety is doing a lot of that heavy lifting. Anxiety is looking for something to be like, all right, we need a valid reason to get the fuck out of this situation. Not only, but any. Anything. I think last week we talked about. I think hiking came up like, you. And I don't know if it was a shit show or on here or whatever. And it's like, you need all that information to know if you want to go on a hike. I was like, yep. And that is. That's control and anxiety. Looking for a rip cord. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pony]

Has that. When did that start? Has that only been relationships since your mom passed or when you look back to when you were younger, is it the same?

[Bear]

I don't know. I really don't know.

[Pony]

Because you've also stayed in some relationships.

[Bear]

Yeah, as.

[Pony]

As we in the biz would say, far past our prime, you know?

[Bear]

Yeah. I think this is a. I don't think it has to do with my mother. I think it has to do with a relationship previous that I didn't know what damage was being done when it was being done. And it's just carry over from that, especially the, like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave before you. You leave. And that feeling. I think you brought it up a couple episodes ago, too, about, like. I think it was in the afterpod when you said. Yeah, I remember you would come downstairs all the time and be like, she's gonna break up with me any minute now. That is recent. That is recent. That's from a pretty recent relationship. And, like, that's kind of me up, and I didn't know that it did at the time.

[Pony]

So

[Bear]

you.

[Pony]

You were just talking about how in a recent relationship, distance played a factor, and you. Yeah, we kind of use that anxiety to. As, like a rip cord.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

But then at the same time, you have the anxiety about she's gonna leave any minute.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

They're kind of like polar opposites. No.

[Bear]

Yeah. They feed each other, though, because I'm worried about the distance and the sustainability and, like, all that stuff, and that can't be fun to be around. And so that's ideal, though.

[Pony]

That's. That's ripcord. That's not ripcord.

[Bear]

That's not ripcord.

[Pony]

That's not ripcord.

[Bear]

That's just. That's just a product of the anxiety. So that feeds into the idea of, oh, they're gonna leave. They're gonna leave me because I'm too anxious for this. The rip cord is then, like, well, then you should. You should get out of here before they hurt you. So how are we gonna get out of here? And then it starts searching, and it's like, okay, yeah, this distance is a problem for you. Which it. I mean, that is legit. It was.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

I wasn't ready to be in something like that, and I haven't been in something like that before, and I. You know.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

So. Yeah. But the. Yeah.

[Pony]

Even when you were on the road a lot, you didn't feel that you were always dealing with distance.

[Bear]

No, because I was always coming home to my person. That's different than spacing it out, you know, I wasn't. I didn't even know really what it was when it was happening to, like, this emotional whiplash, you know, like, we would spend three or four days together, and then we would go three weeks without seeing each other, and I would get in a funk and a depression for the first couple days that I was back home without her. And I didn't understand what that was. It was like going through withdrawals. It literally just put me down. You know what I mean? Like, I'm in. I can't leave the bed for a couple days. And, like, I can't show up in a relationship in the way that I want to or need to for my partner because I'm. It's not fair to them, you know, like, hey, you. You want your dude, but he's down for the count for a couple days. Can I. I didn't know how to pull myself out of that. Or, like, I didn't. I didn't know. Yeah. I didn't know what to do with that. And I didn't have to deal with that before when I was touring, because again, I would come home to my person and it was like, whatever. So I'd be gone for the weekend. Sure. Like, even four days or whatever. But then I'm. I'm back with them.

[Pony]

Yeah, there was a part. I'm kind of, like, using things I know about you. Yeah, there was a part in the. In the relationship you had when you were on the road a lot where you guys lived to cross country. Did it ever feel like that back then because you were in LA and your partner was in New York? It was years ago.

[Bear]

Yeah. No, I think, because at that time, like, there was a lot going on there. There was a lot of distance, emotionally happening. Not only physically, but emotionally, too.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

So it wasn't as prevalent. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy. Hang tight. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Pony]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Bear]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapist with no problem at all.

[Pony]

Yeah. Yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Bear]

It's not a good fit. Hey. And that happens. Finding good therapist is like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there in the dating world and finding the right Partner for you.

[Pony]

And you're married now.

[Bear]

Oh, no. You're in love. Never. Never.

[Pony]

You're in love now.

[Bear]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Pony]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Bear]

Absolutely not.

[Pony]

Let's do one together.

[Bear]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Pony]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you?

[Bear]

Dude?

[Pony]

You think I'm not gonna walk out with the trophy?

[Bear]

I know you will.

[Pony]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[Bear]

Yeah. So that. That vulnerability that I have, when it, you know, gets down to when it starts peeling back away, you know, all these. All the stuff that's hiding. You know what I mean? Like, on top of the grief, once it gets down close to that, I'm like, oh, yeah, I gotta.

[Pony]

How long does it take to get down?

[Bear]

I don't know. I wasn't aware that I was protecting it so much. You know, It's like everything else from, you know, it's like, oh, I think I'm being cool, or I think I'm this. Like, I think I'm like, oh, I'm. I talk about it all the time, and I'm fine with it. Like, it's. It's, you know, whatever. And then the truth is, I've. I don't know how to process it. So I haven't really begun even starting with my father. Like, I don't. I didn't know what to do then. Those feelings of being, like, I should be sadder, I should feel that way. Like, those outweigh my actual feelings. And so how do you even begin to process your feelings if you're worried about how you should feel?

[Pony]

So what. What counts as vulnerability for you in a relationship? Like, what.

[Bear]

What picks away talking about needs and wants and things like that? I feel like are. Are pretty vulnerable. How I want to be loved. What I think, what I expect out of a relationship, what I want out of my partner, what they want out of me. You know, all those things that go into, like, those are all very vulnerable things. I feel like, especially needs for me. Like, needs are. Yeah, needs are huge.

[Pony]

Yeah. I had a. I got rocked a little bit talking to my therapist. Speaking of vulnerabilities, she asked me, how often in my relationship do I feel loved, cared for and adored. First off, never thought about being adored my whole life.

[Bear]

I say, that doesn't fit for you at all, right? Yeah.

[Pony]

You ever felt adored?

[Bear]

Even I remember having a conversation with you about like, just the idea of. It'd be nice to hear a compliment every once in a while.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

And you're like, why does that matter? I was like, you don't want to know if your partner, like, every once in a while still thinks you're attractive or makes a comment or whatever. You're like, no. I was like, that's crazy to me. And so I think that falls into adored, which is just like, hey, you look good, or I like that shirt on you or something like that. Like, give me a little song. Give me a crown.

[Pony]

See, even that to me sounds like desired. That doesn't sound like, I don't know what a door it means, dude.

[Bear]

I think adored is, is just like, I think of adored. It's. It, it. It's almost like, like I attach it to like a celebrity or something like that. Like those kind of feelings you have towards somebody or you're like, oh, I love them, like they're great. Or, you know, like. And so when your partner's like, I just, I love. You know, like, they're just like so kind of.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Hard eyed towards you.

[Pony]

I do feel that a lot.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Okay, well, I didn't have an answer for her. How often do you feel loved, cared for and adored? And I was like, what do you mean? I was like, I feel pretty good in my relationship. And she goes, okay, let me ask you this. Let me phrase it a different way.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

How often do you let yourself feel loved, cared for and adored? What?

[Bear]

Yeah. What does that mean for you? Oh, man.

[Pony]

Dude, it feels similar to like having needs, meaning that I'm needy. Like, feeling loved and cared for and adored. I'm like, what am I, a little toddler boy? You know?

[Bear]

No.

[Pony]

You don't know.

[Bear]

No.

[Pony]

Huh.

[Bear]

She's human nature, man.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Yeah. So let's break it down. So what does it mean to be loved? What does that look like?

[Pony]

I don't understand.

[Bear]

What does that look like? Or what is if somebody loves you or somebody is showing you love in a relationship.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

What does that look like?

[Pony]

Couldn't tell you.

[Bear]

What does it look like for you, for your partner then?

[Pony]

I'm just doing my best, dude. You know?

[Bear]

Shut up.

[Pony]

And this is like. That's also the. Because you're gonna say this Tism.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Like, the ways that I show love. Mm. May not be the way that my partner receives love.

[Bear]

Sure.

[Pony]

So I'm just doing my best, man.

[Bear]

Yeah. But that's not the same. That's not the same as what I'm asking. Huh. So, okay, let's, like. Let's take cared for, for example.

[Pony]

Okay.

[Bear]

What is cared for look like for you?

[Pony]

Cared for, like being taken care of.

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah. What does that look like? Give me an example of how your partner could do something that shows that she cares about you.

[Pony]

Oh. Like when. Like when I My back up.

[Bear]

Right.

[Pony]

Like, she would rub, like, tiger bomb and CBD on me.

[Bear]

Right. That's great. Yeah.

[Pony]

I felt very cared for.

[Bear]

That's a perfect example. Now, does that make you feel like a little boy, whatever the. Or do you just feel like that's nice? I feel cared for.

[Pony]

Felt like quite an inconvenience, really.

[Bear]

Yeah. Okay, let me flip it around. When you do, what does it look like for you to do something for her that shows that you care?

[Pony]

That's interesting. I don't have a good answer. I honestly, I think I do whatever I think would, like, be of service. I do that and just hope she receives some of it.

[Bear]

Right.

[Pony]

And I understand some are gonna. She's gonna appreciate, and some she's just gonna glance over and think.

[Bear]

Right.

[Pony]

Don't say right. What.

[Bear]

Yeah, you're nailing it. Like, that's caring for somebody. Yeah. So. So you got cared for down.

[Pony]

I got care for.

[Bear]

And here's where the tism comes in. Right.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

It's because you're hung up on this idea of whether it lands or not. That's not the important thing. The important thing is just to continue to show up. Right.

[Pony]

I feel like you want me to say yes.

[Bear]

Mm.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Do you not agree with that?

[Pony]

I don't fucking know, dude. I'm just doing my best out here, really.

[Bear]

But what does your best look like? You know what I mean? Like, what is that? What does that actually look like?

[Pony]

I actually am a pretty. I have a pretty strong belief that your best is constantly changing.

[Bear]

Absolutely.

[Pony]

Yeah. My. Some days my best is great, and some days my best is pretty bare

[Bear]

bones, you know,

[Pony]

but here. Here's what. Here's what I have noticed since I talked about this in therapy. It almost. It's. It feels similarly to other positive feelings in that they're probably fleeting and I should really just try to embrace them when they're happening.

[Bear]

Interesting.

[Pony]

Like when. Like, I talk about with joy, like when I feel cared for by my partner rather than feeling like an inconvenience or whatever. Yeah. Just. Dude, I'm getting a little pampered right now, you know, and not worry about paying it back or. You know what I mean?

[Bear]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that. And that's where. That's where love shows up.

[Pony]

All right, first of all, don't be talking to me like some sort of love expert.

[Bear]

I just wrote a book, Modern Love and Other Natural Disasters. You can get Amazon or.

[Pony]

What was the last word of the title, that memoir. What was the last word?

[Bear]

Disaster.

[Pony]

Disasters.

[Bear]

Well, because, you know, Captain Love over here, sometimes of the Titanic. The iceberg is here. All right.

[Pony]

Getting a little comfy over there.

[Bear]

Hey.

[Pony]

And that's where love comes in, right?

[Bear]

That's where love comes in.

[Pony]

Shut the up. What? Love comes in this guy. Yeah, I do. Maybe that is where love comes in.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Why is it so hard for me to accept soft, nurturing things?

[Bear]

I've been waiting for this for a long time. Are you guys ready?

[Pony]

Are you? I'm not.

[Bear]

Tell Papa. Is it Mama? Tell Papa, Is it Mama?

[Pony]

I don't know. Say more. I like that. I can write your best lines. That's outstanding. Okay, tell me more. Well, what's your theory?

[Bear]

Tell me about childhood and love and your mother and being cared for and all those things.

[Pony]

Well, I. If you were to ask me how my mom showed love when I was a kid, all of my answers would be providing.

[Bear]

Right.

[Pony]

Like getting me what I needed. Shelter, clothes, getting me to baseball, like all those things.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Which I now understand is not love. That's just providing for your children's needs.

[Bear]

That's caring.

[Pony]

No, it isn't. Making sure your children have food and shelter is the literal bare minimum of parenting.

[Bear]

Sure.

[Pony]

And I think. I think she had a lot of love.

[Bear]

Right.

[Pony]

I think she put so much pressure on herself that I don't know, either she didn't have enough energy or capability to let it come out in nurturing ways, at least that I remember.

[Bear]

Yeah. And that's where the. The word that I. You had said that keeps coming back to me when I'm thinking about this is inconvenient. I feel like. I feel like it's inconvenient. And so with your mother, did it often feel like you were inconvenienting her or if you were in an inconvenience or something like that? Like, did that oftentimes feel that way? Because you can't be late, you can't do this, you can't up.

[Pony]

And so the only times I remember we did it, like, if I got sick and had to stay home from school,

[Bear]

bro. Yeah.

[Pony]

I couldn't even enjoy being home from school.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Because I mean. Yeah, I'm causing. I'm causing problems, dude. One time I threw up in my Cocoa Krispies at the table.

[Bear]

Yeah. So when you're thinking about love and caring things now and being adored and, like, all these things. Love, love things. Yeah. Yeah. I think inconvenience is going to be a theme until you realize that you're not being needy or that you're allowed to be allowed to have needs. That's what I struggle with, too, is, like, even thinking that I'm allowed to. I should just be lucky that I'm here. I'm so lucky that you picked me. You know what I mean?

[Pony]

How does that matter with your mom? Didn't you have every need in the world with your mom? Like, you couldn't have too many.

[Bear]

My love stuff isn't attached to my mother. My love stuff is attached to my weight. When I was a kid, I'm not deserving of love because I was overweight. I'm not deserving of friendship. I'm not deserving of anything. Of attention because I'm big, fat kid.

[Pony]

Oh, I don't buy that at all.

[Bear]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[Pony]

No, I believe that you were a big fat kid. I don't think that's the issue.

[Bear]

Oh, yeah. I'm constantly fighting for. I'm constantly fighting for him. And that's why I feel like I'm lucky to even. I can't believe you're even talking to me because you would never talk to me when I was young, big kid. You would never treat me this way.

[Pony]

So then when you never talk a relationship,

[Bear]

it's. Then I'm like, well, I can't have any needs or I can't. That's why boundaries and needs and all this stuff is hard for me because I'm like, hey, shut up. We're here. Like, don't rock the boat, dude. And so. Because if I do that, then they're gonna be like, okay, you're gone, dude. Like, why am I even. And then they're going to come to their senses and be like, what the fuck am I doing with this guy? Get out of here. And then I'm left alone? Yeah.

[Pony]

Nah.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Pony]

Nah.

[Bear]

You think it's because my mother loved me too much? Now I don't know what love is.

[Pony]

No. I think no woman will ever be able to live up to the love that your mother gave you. We'll be right back with more secondhand therapy after this. If you're interested in having the best time of your life, you should go ahead and check out our new sponsor, Psychic Source.

[Bear]

Oh, buddy, I cannot wait. Dude, I'm trying to talk to dead people. Do they do that?

[Pony]

They do mediums. They got mediums.

[Bear]

All right, I'll take a large medium.

[Pony]

All right, so here's the thing. Daddy already did it, okay? Now here. Here's the thing. If you want to talk to a psychic, and trust me, you do, here's what you do. You go to trypsychicsource.com sht10, okay? You're gonna get 40 minutes. 44. Zero minutes for $19.80. Now, you don't have to use all 40 minutes with one person. I didn't. I did 20 with. And look, mind your business. Talk about my love life.

[Bear]

Okay? All right.

[Pony]

Talk about my love life.

[Bear]

Trying to see some. Some.

[Pony]

Maybe some road bumps, just seeing if it's gonna be clear skies, and it's not. Now, I did the other 20 on just, like, a spiritual thing. See where I'm at? Let me guess. You're gonna do a medium.

[Bear]

Oh, my God. I can't wait.

[Pony]

All right, well, if you want to talk to a psychic, you can do that again. Trypsychicsource.com sht10. You get 40 minutes for under $20.

[Bear]

Do it.

[Pony]

And then DM us, because I want to hear how it went.

[Bear]

Oh, I can't. I. Please, please DM us.

[Pony]

Oh, God, it's so much fun.

[Bear]

I want the tea. I know we talk about better help a lot on this show, but now they're a sponsor.

[Pony]

They are a sponsor, dude.

[Bear]

I'm using better help. I'm loving it so far. It's so easy to find a therapist, find out what I'm looking for, and if it's not working out, because that has happened, I've been able to switch therapists with no problem at all.

[Pony]

Yeah, yeah, you had that one. That was not a good fit.

[Bear]

It's not a good fate. And that happens. Finding good therapist is, like, a lot like finding, you know, being out there. In the dating world and finding the right partner for you.

[Pony]

And you're married now.

[Bear]

Oh, no. Never. Never.

[Pony]

You're in love now.

[Bear]

I have to talk about this with my therapist.

[Pony]

Dude, you're there. Can I meet this person? I don't even know their gender. Can I meet this person?

[Bear]

Absolutely not.

[Pony]

Let's do one together.

[Bear]

Well, we should sign up for couples therapy on BetterHelp.

[Pony]

I'll do it. You think I won't do it? You think I won't win couples therapy with you, Dude? You think I'm not gonna walk out like the trophy?

[Bear]

I know you will.

[Pony]

All right, here's the good news. They really are a sponsor. And if you have wanted to get in therapy and maybe you don't know where to start, maybe you don't have insurance like us, you can go to BetterHelp. They were nice enough to give us a discount. So if you hear this, you can go to betterhelp.com secondhand therapy and you will get 10% off your first month. There's a link below the episode. Starting therapy. It helps. It really helps. No matter what you want to work on, give it a shot. Betterhelp.com secondhand therapy. We love you guys.

[Bear]

Yeah, I'm sure there's some of that mixed in, for sure, But I feel a lot of insecurity about.

[Pony]

I believe that. Yeah, completely.

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pony]

Oh, no, you get there.

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pony]

Like, I'm a therapist. What a fucking asshole. Fucking audacity on me sometimes. Loved, adored, and cared for. It's bullshit. No, it isn't.

[Bear]

It's not.

[Pony]

It's a really, really lovely part of life. But then my therapist told me that, well, it's a choice to feel that way, isn't it? Isn't that annoying? How annoying is that?

[Bear]

Yeah. Yeah. That's a bum. That's a real bummer.

[Pony]

Ah, that's exactly what I said. I was like, that's a bummer.

[Bear]

That's a choice. Huh?

[Pony]

That is a choice, my guy.

[Bear]

Whoa. Do you feel like you're actively choosing that or not choosing that?

[Pony]

No.

[Bear]

Yeah,

[Pony]

obviously I would choose it. Why would I not choose to feel?

[Bear]

Because it's an inconvenience.

[Pony]

Adored or whatever the that means.

[Bear]

Yeah, because you're too needy for that, I guess. Dude. So. So what is the. What's the solution? And just start choosing to. I don't know. I'm so shitty, right? Just choosing to love.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

How do you do that? How do you.

[Pony]

Hey. By being mindful and present.

[Bear]

Hey. Don't like that.

[Pony]

She gave Me. She gave me an example, okay? That day, it was before it got real hot out here. It was of one of those, like, 70. It was nice.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

70 and breezy. And she's like, you know, I live in an older house. I went to go open a window. It's so nice out. She's like, in the latch. Breeze broke off the window into my hand. He's like, not my fault. Shit happens. I know that. My husband knows that. She's like, I walk over to him, I go, the latch broke. I hand it to him. And she goes, I'll never think about that latch again. And the next time I go open that window, the latch will be fixed. And she's like. And that's a moment that I can choose to feel loved and cared for. She's like, it's very easy to think, okay, I have a session in 20 minutes. He's the man of the house. He can go to the hardware store. It's too screw. It's very easy to think that he's like, But I'm choosing to think how nice that he cares for me, that I never have to think about this again. Wow. You know? So I hung up on her.

[Bear]

Yeah. What do you do with all that guilt?

[Pony]

Where do you put it? The guilt of like, oh, boy, we've done it. What, For breaking the window?

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Oof. Buddy, you didn't think about that, not once?

[Bear]

No. Swear? No, I swear. You didn't think like, no. Here's what my mind went. Fuck. I broke the window. Oh, my God, you're in trouble. I'm in, like, you gotta fix that guy. I have a session. Like, I'm sorry. You gotta, like, yeah. What do you do with that guilt? Wow. What did you think when she said it? You were like, oh, that's a nice thing.

[Pony]

I thought, oh. So every time I pick up my water bottle and it's full, I. Instead of being like, oh, thanks, babe. I could take a minute and be like, that's a really nice act of love. Look at her taking care of me. I just started looking for, like, little tiny acts of service that I could be like, okay, this is how I can choose to feel loved and cared for.

[Bear]

There's no guilt there of like, she

[Pony]

filled up my water bottle.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

No, you feel guilty if someone feels like, your water bottle. Oh, wow.

[Bear]

Yeah. You shouldn't have to do that.

[Pony]

Is that because you're a fat ass?

[Bear]

Yeah, my fat ass is. Get up and fill this water bottle.

[Pony]

That's Mom. Where's the guilt from yeah.

[Bear]

The guilt is not rocking the boat. It's like. It's a. It's a need thing. So. Yeah. I don't need you to do that. I can do that. Don't worry about it, like. Because I don't want to be too needy. If you think that you need to fill up my water bottle all the time, then it's like, oh, my God, don't. Then. Then it just adds to the list of why you're going to leave me. This guy can't even fucking fill up his own water bottle.

[Pony]

What if your mom filled up your water bottle? Is that okay?

[Bear]

Yeah. Huh. Yeah.

[Pony]

Interesting. What?

[Bear]

That's what moms do.

[Pony]

Some of them.

[Bear]

I was gonna say some of them.

[Pony]

Yeah. I've been filling up my own water bottle since it had a nipple on it.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

Yeah. That's why, for me, she fills it up. I'm like, damn, it's really nice. I just never thought, like, I could choose to feel loved and adored and cared for right now.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

I just think, oh, that's really nice.

[Bear]

Yes.

[Pony]

It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Bear]

What, Guilt or what.

[Pony]

No, I understand that you. Yeah. You feel like a giant inconvenience.

[Bear]

Yeah.

[Pony]

I don't understand. With your mom, though.

[Bear]

I. I mean, how do you not understand that? She did everything. She loved me too, about it. No, that was the thing. It was like. So I'm just programmed to think that that's what moms do. Moms, you know, they take care of your need before you have it. She's nurturing, she's loving. She's going to fill up my water bottle. I mean, she never did. I didn't have a water bottle, but I'm just saying she would.

[Pony]

That's what moms do. What do partners do?

[Bear]

Partners shouldn't have to do that.

[Pony]

Because Mom's doing it.

[Bear]

No, because I should. I should be doing it. And it's not their responsibility.

[Pony]

Okay.

[Bear]

Yeah. Because again, like, yeah, she's gonna

[Pony]

add

[Bear]

to the list to leave me. Guy can't even fucking fill up his own water bottle.

[Pony]

Has it been like that in all relationships?

[Bear]

Mm, yeah. Yeah. Huh.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

And that's insecurity and that's fat kid stuff. That's rocking the boat. I'm trying to be whatever you need me to beat. It keeps you here.

[Pony]

Well, not skinny, but. Yeah. I was thinking. I was like. I also grew up a fat cat. I was like, I don't. I don't remember feeling like being an inconvenience would drive them away.

[Bear]

I. I Have a lot of experience with being treated very differently. When I got skinny in high school, like the, like my senior year, like versus the rest of the time in high school, like, it's a very different treatment of me, of what I felt. And so, but for me, I didn't change. You know what I mean? Like, physically I did, but I was still me.

[Pony]

Get the out of here.

[Bear]

I'm being serious.

[Pony]

I've seen you put on a leather jacket. How it changes your ego. You're gonna tell me you dropped 60 pounds and you were the same. Get the out of here.

[Bear]

I mean, it's still me in there. It's still the same anxieties, it's still the same whatever. It's still the same humor and like, it's still the same whatever it was when I was big. But now all of a sudden you like me more.

[Pony]

You didn't love that.

[Bear]

Of course I did. But what I'm saying is like, of course I'm, I'm thinking like, that's also why I have a big stuff with weight. Stuff like if, if I put on weight again, there it goes. I'm not lovable, I'm not likable, I'm not acceptable. I'm not in. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, I got a lot of fucked up stuff with that because of the treatment that I saw the difference in.

[Pony]

Yeah, doesn't make sense to me.

[Bear]

Okay.

[Pony]

Yeah. Had you gained weight again, I'd be like, got it. But you never got big again.

[Bear]

Yeah, I made, I was very adamant to like not do that because I, I again I would lose. Getting big again meant that I would lose it all. Friendships, relationships, opportunities. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I link a lot of self image to self love.

[Pony]

Do you have like a destination of image?

[Bear]

God, it changes all the time.

[Pony]

Yeah.

[Bear]

Not really. I just want to feel good in my body.

[Pony]

Have you ever?

[Bear]

Not really.

[Pony]

Tight. Hello, my little bear cub. I just wanted to say thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you would like ad free episodes and other bonus content, please head on over to patreon.com secondhand therapypod okay, love you, bye. And we know that. Jesus, that's a bear. It's not. Need a moment to breathe with Podbean's ambient relaxation. Enjoy ocean waves, calming rain and peaceful nature sounds anytime, anywhere. Whether you're working, studying, meditating or winding down, your perfect calm is just one tap away. Download the Podbean app today on Google Play in the Apple app Store. Relax with Podbean p O d B e a N.