C (2:56)

That is a great way of thinking of it. And I'm already thinking of a million things. Like women screaming in happiness at a restaurant. Right. A group of women at a table.

D (3:05)

And it's always this gesture. Come on, keep it down.

C (3:08)

Yeah, keep it down. And saws and metal instruments with their teeth. It's so evocative.

D (3:14)

It was a pleasure to write those scenes. I really had fun.

C (3:18)

It's really funny, too.

D (3:19)

Oh, good.

C (3:20)

What was it like to hear the story read by someone who is not you?

D (3:24)

It's strange, I suppose, but it's also very satisfying. People emphasize work in places that you wouldn't expect. And the cadence of words is different. It's satisfying.

C (3:37)

I love hearing somebody else read my work. I think they do such a better job. Although you read so beautifully.

D (3:44)

I like listening to books as well, and I think, did I do a better job? There are so many wonderful book narrators out there right now. It's getting more and more exciting.

C (3:56)

I know. I feel absolutely the same way. So you've always written about families and the opening chapter of Love Medicine. I guess it started off as a short story, and it was about family members gathering on a reservation for the funeral of an Ojibwe woman. Do you feel in your heart, your guts, or whatever that place is like more of a short story writer or a novelist, or. Do not think that way. I know you're also a poet.

D (4:20)

Well, short stories came to me in the beginning, and it's harder to write them sometimes. Now they come as more of a wave of emotion, the way poems do. But now I've started writing into a longer form, and I really love doing that. Everything begins as a story, but extending the story and not answering all the questions within a certain limited length at the same time. When I have a story and an ending I'm so excited about, just feels so gratifying to be able to bring a reader into a world. Immerse the reader and then, see, now you can leave. And it really feels great.

C (5:15)

Do you always know which it is? What feels like the beginning of a novel versus a story? You somehow sort of know. Have you ever had the experience of writing one and it turned out to be the other?

D (5:28)

So many of the novels that I was writing in the beginning had stories embedded within them. So somebody would tell a story or there would be a series of Narrators, or somehow you would feel that this story was coming from a source within the novel. But it sometimes didn't have a lot of bearing on the novel. And then I started making the stories have more bearing or not using multiple narrators, and at last started writing from one point of view, which was a huge breakthrough for me. I didn't think I would sustain a point of view over a novel, and when I did, I loved it. But it's very rare. I have to have a very powerful relationship with that character.

C (6:16)

It's like you have to be with that person on a long road trip. You have to be willing to put it. Yeah, it seems that way to me.

D (6:24)

That person speaks, speaking to you from the passenger seat or whatever. And you can listen with one ear. You feel like you're getting these messages at any time of the day. And I usually jot them on pieces of books that are jotted on. Now I keep index cards handy because I've had daughters who buy massive quantities of index cards in high school, and then I'm left with massive quantities of index cards once they're gone. So I have so many, and I keep them with me all the time.

C (6:58)

The index cards is a great idea. I do not use them. I just have little scraps and they have been sort of meaningless.

D (7:05)

The index cards can go anywhere with you, you know, in a pocket or whatever, purse, and then you can number them and tape them into notebooks.

C (7:15)

This is good. Now I'm getting writing tips from Louise Erdrich, so I'm going to then say, fine. Do you have another tip for. Yeah.

D (7:25)

Yes. And it's your tip, which is to write on whatever's handy, but then keep it. And I find that taping it into a notebook makes it real for me in a way that just keeping the card somewhere doesn't. My method is to always be working out of specific, dedicated notebooks. If I have a type of person who would go in a certain place, those little bits really add up. When you spend money, you don't realize how much all those little bits add up.

C (7:59)

They add up a lot.

D (8:00)

End of the month, you're going, how did that happen?

C (8:04)

Not that you asked me for a tip or need one.

D (8:06)

I do ask for a tip. Okay.

C (8:08)

Just quickly, from a mechanical perspective, assuming you do.

D (8:12)

Right.

C (8:13)

On a computer of some sort, change the font when you're getting tired of your character.

D (8:19)

What? Of course. That's a great idea.

C (8:22)

And it's like Palatino 12. Oh, this is good.

D (8:25)

Is that a tip that you give students I do.

C (8:27)

I do, absolutely. Because especially when you're in the middle of a long narrative, as you were describing, you're with this person for so long, you're on that car ride, you're on that ride where the person is telling you everything. Just perks you up. I think, actually, when you mentioned before Stories within Novels, I was struck by that. I love stories within novels. In. In your novels and in other novels because they seem almost like a wing of an apartment found in a dream. Like, you open this door and this is other.

D (8:56)

Have you ever had dream?

C (8:57)

Oh, sure.

D (8:58)

Do you? This is my dream. It's not never an apartment because I.

C (9:01)

Well, a house, right.

D (9:03)

You know, Midwest. But it's always a house. And this is usually my house or it's in a place that I used to live. I have dreams a lot about New England houses and houses where I knew certain people. And then they come into the dream. Do you have wings that you've never discovered in your apartment? Isn't that very New York Fantasies, a wonderful fantasy?

C (9:34)

I think it's just more general than that, this desire for something. Or maybe it's a hope. I don't know if it's hopeful. Maybe it is.

D (9:42)

Does it happen when you're getting somewhere in your work and then you have an unexpected space in your work or a secret space?

C (9:53)

I don't know. I have not made that connection. But I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. Does it happen for you around those times?

D (10:00)

I, too, can't really.

C (10:02)

Maybe we'll pay attention now, you know, when it happens. But I feel sort of refreshed in some way and as if there's this possibility. Maybe it is about new work. So you've brought Native American life into the center of American literature. Do you feel a responsibility as a writer? Or do you write what you want to explore or love? Or are they sort of interchangeable or the same?

D (10:26)

It's the same. You know, this was before being any one thing was. I don't want to say politicized, because it really isn't. But it is sort of acknowledged in a way. You just were who you were. And I lived in North Dakota till I was 18. So so much of who I am and who I've become, I just accept it wouldn't go back and change anything. It's just that I didn't expect it. Certainly I didn't expect that I would be still writing or have anything published or any sort of authority at all. Or bring any Native writing into the center, as you said. But it's not me. It's my parents, it's my tribe, my nation, the people around me. I mean, it's everybody else who has been essential to me, who has done this.

C (11:19)

Well, it's just such a wonderful body of work and a continuing wonderful body of work. You own a bookstore in Minneapolis called Birch Bark Books, and you're part of this great and powerful sorority of writer bookstore owners. Ann Patchett, Emma Straub, and soon, Lauren Groff, who is opening a bookstore in Florida.

D (11:37)

I didn't know Lauren Groff was doing this.

C (11:40)

Yes, read about it. I'm really excited about it.

D (11:42)

I will.

C (11:43)

Has your reading changed or expanded since you've been doing this? Did you start reading different things because people were interested in them, or were you changing people's reading, or was it both?

D (11:55)

Well, because this is a bookstore with a particular Native mission, emphasis, what have you. I've certainly read more deeply in Native literature, history and methodologies than I would have. But at the same time, I'm just reading in a general way because we were a tiny place, but we have. We're packed literally to the rafters with all sorts of books. I read more contemporary work than I did, but I listen to more classical work than I have. I've listened to so many books over and over that have really resonated for me. For instance, I had never had the patience to sit down with Cousin Bet Balzac's book. I would read it on long walks. And some of these books that I haven't ever had the time to really delve into, what I can listen to have been amazing influences, really good influences. I said amazing.

C (12:58)

Just change the font and, you know, it'll be.

D (13:00)

I'll just leave to change the font on. Amazing.

C (13:02)

Very good. No, no, I do know what you mean, though. I find that reading a classic novel, rediscovering it or even reading it, like when you weren't a sort of teenage jerk, in my case, when you were forced into reading something, reading it now, reading it at the right time is so exciting.

D (13:21)

And I feel that way about contemporary work as well. I see a lot of galleys because they come into the bookstore and sometimes I'll put one aside and pick it up in a week or two. And it's an entirely different book. Yeah, yeah. I'm reading one by Rumaan Alam right now.

C (13:41)

We have the same editor, Sarah McGrath. Oh, you do? I'm dying to read that book.

D (13:46)

Oh, you will love it. It's called Entitlement. Yeah, yeah. This one I liked from the beginning, he's got such a handle on what it is to be young, hungry, easily influenced, but then again, trying to find a self. Ah, it's really. It's hard to find a self. It's hard. It's hard all your life to find yourself.

C (14:10)

What are you working on now?

D (14:13)

Blessedly, I sent away the copy edited version of a manuscript that's about farming. And I feel like nobody who's not been on a farm recently is going to want to read it. But I hope they will because it's about farming. Farming used to be the central topic of books in the world. In the world. And so I decided I would try it again because I grew up in a really interesting farm environment in the Red River Valley of North Dakota. So it's a sugar beet farming territory and it's unlike what most people think of as a farm.

C (14:58)

I want to read that.

D (15:00)

Farming. Yeah.

C (15:00)

Well, I want to know what you mean. What's it called?

D (15:02)

It's called the Mighty Red and it's about the Red River.

C (15:07)

I feel like when I finish a novel, it's like I don't even remember writing it. It was such an ordeal. I want to forget it immediately.

D (15:13)

I do, too. Cold blood, Polynesia.

C (15:16)

They're gone. That's it.

D (15:17)

I know.

C (15:17)

So do you feel a kind of lightness right now?

D (15:20)

Oh, I feel excitement because while I'm writing one book, I'm always getting excited about some other book that I can't write.

C (15:29)

I can't wait to find out what that one is, too. Thank you so much for talking to me. Really. We're so happy to have your story on the show.

D (15:36)

I'm happy, too. I'm very happy. It's this story. I was delighted when I found out.

C (15:40)

It's a really good story

D (15:43)

and I'm glad you thought it was fun.

C (15:45)

I loved it.

D (15:45)

I loved it.

E (15:49)

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