Muscles, Drama, & Trauma (Queer on Screen, Part 1): “If there were no gays, there would be no Hollywood.”

Summary

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Silver Linings with The Old Gays

Episode: Muscles, Drama, & Trauma (Queer on Screen, Part 1): "If there were no gays, there would be no Hollywood."

Release Date: April 28, 2026
Hosts: Robert Reeves, Jessay Martin, Bill Lyons, Mick Peterson

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Overview

This episode kicks off Season 2 of Silver Linings with The Old Gays by launching a deep (and at times, delightfully campy) discussion about the history of queer representation in mainstream film and television. The hosts—Robert, Jessay, Bill, and Mick—draw from their lifetimes of personal experiences and cultural shifts, tracing portrayals of queerness from the earliest days of cinema up until 1981, bookended by the landmark publication of The Celluloid Closet. The conversation explores evolving depictions, moments of affirmation and trauma, coded subtext vs. outright stories, and how these representations shaped and reflected the identities of gay men through the decades.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Setting the Stage: Queerness in Media (00:57 – 02:21)

• Opening Theme: The hosts introduce the season and the two-part exploration of queers in mainstream media, outlining their plan:
  • A look back at 100 years of queer film, from the 1900s to 1981, referencing The Celluloid Closet.
• Notable Quote (Robert, 01:27):
  "To kick off season two with a bang across two episodes, we'll chat about all things gay and queer in mainstream movies and television from throughout our lives and how it affected all of us."

Personal Revelations: 'My Current Addiction' Segment (02:29 – 04:20)

• Bill: Addicted to seasonal shrimp tacos from Del Taco.
• Robert: Lightheartedly shares an addiction to "AI muscle porn," adding humor and setting an unfiltered, candid tone.
  • "My current addiction today is what it was yesterday. AI-driven porn. I have discovered AI muscle porn. I tell you, my hand’s a little weak right now, and they’re virtual, which means they're perfect." (Robert, 03:33)

The Dawn of Queer Cinema: The Dixon Experimental Sound Film (04:29 – 06:10)

• Robert offers a mini-history lesson on the Dixon Experimental Sound Film (1894-95), highlighting the presence of queerness from the very beginning of cinema.
  • "From the very beginning of film, queer people have been right there in front of the camera and probably behind the camera as well." (Robert, 04:44)
• The abolition of the Motion Picture Production Code (1968) is cited as the start of a more honest shift in onscreen representation.

Lingering Impacts of Early Representation (06:10 – 12:19)

• First Encounter with Queerness in Media:
  • Jessay: Spin and Marty (1950s Disney show) stirred early feelings of difference, even if queerness wasn't explicit (06:21).
  • Bill: Suddenly Last Summer (1959). Witnessing violence against a coded gay character left him shaken and scared:
    • "It scared me and it really bothered me." (Bill, 08:15)
  • Mick: Grew up watching glamorous but coded figures like Liberace, but was largely kept from seeing movies as a child.
  • Jessay & Bill: Auntie Mame (1958) offered a subtle, positive association with gayness (09:27–09:58).
  • Robert: Recalls the hidden gay subtext in Ben Hur, noting Gore Vidal's contribution to the script creating a backstory of rejected love.
    • "Messala was a lover of Ben Hur who was rejected by Judah Ben Hur. And so everything else ... is his revenge." (Robert, 09:58)
  • Jessay: Describes being drawn to gladiator films without knowing why, reflecting the coded allure for gay audiences (10:46; 11:27).

Did Media Enable Coming Out? (12:19 – 13:56)

• Collective Response: No media truly gave them permission to come out.
• **Robert cites an episode of All in the Family that portrayed a familiar, "regular guy" as quietly gay, a moment that resonated:
  • "Like a light went off in my head and I said, oh, this is much more interesting than I thought. Maybe my thoughts about a guy like that are real." (Robert, 13:09)

Message to Younger Selves (16:29 – 17:20)

• Bill: Encourages pride—“we have a right to be ourselves… We are making great inroads.” (16:38)
• Robert: With characteristic directness, “I would tell them we’re fucked.” (17:07)

Breakthroughs & Setbacks: Stereotypes and Milestones (17:20 – 22:12)

• 'The Boys in the Band' (1970):
  • Jessay: Relates to the film, seeing his life and social world reflected, even if through stereotypes. (17:44)
  • Bill: Laughed at first, but watching again decades later felt degraded by its stereotypes:
    • "I changed my whole thought about the movie after seeing it 20 years later." (Bill, 18:29)
  • Robert: Observes the recurring message that “we cannot be happy.”
• 'Soap' (TV show):
  • Recognized as a farce with an openly gay returning character, but written by straight men perpetuating the idea that gay people are unhappy. (20:01 – 20:24)
• 'The Producers':
  • Robert relishes the over-the-top depiction of drag queen Roger DuBois, describing the comic camp of gay-coded characters:
    • "The scene that he comes in and he’s wearing a black girdle..." (Robert, 20:24–22:12)
  • Mick: Any hint of gayness onscreen was like “dessert at the end of a meal.” (22:12)

The Cult and Queer: Waters, Rocky Horror, and More (23:05 – 25:41)

• John Waters/Divine:
  • Jessay recalls the shock and artful disgust of Pink Flamingos ("...Divine, dressed in her drag, ate dog doo doo." (23:26)), but recognizes its status as abstract art in hindsight.
  • Hairspray is noted as a much lighter, joyous follow-up (24:28).
• Rocky Horror Picture Show:
  • Robert: Not a fan; prefers the “muscle” of Pumping Iron to camp. (25:03)
  • Bill: “Just big camp.”
  • Jessay: Praises Tim Curry’s outrageous costumes and performance.
  • Robert: Raises the old trope of LGBT characters as predators, noting how frequent this negative depiction was throughout film history. (25:42)

Tension Between Lived Reality & Media Portrayal (26:02 – 28:29)

• Mick: Felt isolated as a boy in small-town Tennessee—seeing queer representation onscreen "let me know ... it's kind of okay." (26:14)
• Jessay: Even when depictions were negative, their existence was hopeful—a sign change might be coming. (26:38)
• Robert: As a young actor in Hollywood, found films didn't reflect his life at all—there was a "disconnect and refusal to see us," mentioning homophobic European films and bleak depictions like The Killing of Sister George:
  • "There just seems to have been this disconnect and this refusal to see us, at least in Hollywood at that time." (Robert, 27:07)
  • "[In The Killing of Sister George]…she’s out of a job and her lover has left her…at the end of the movie, there’s a pin spot… and she says, moo." (27:25)

Looking Forward: "Silver Linings" Reflections (28:34 – 29:52)

• Hosts Reflect on Season 2:
  • Robert: Every episode is a new experience, "a new adventure, and you never know how it’s going to turn out." (28:53)
  • Mick: Loves the unpredictability and the natural flow of discussions.
  • Bill: Appreciates learning more about, and from, his friends.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If there were no gays, there would be no Hollywood."
  (Robert quoting Elizabeth Taylor, 06:00)
• Robert on subtext in Ben Hur:
  “Messala was a lover of Ben Hur who was rejected by Judah Ben Hur. And so everything else that follows in the film is his revenge.” (09:58)
• Bill on shifting feelings about 'The Boys in the Band':
  "I changed my whole thought about the movie after seeing it 20 years later." (18:29)
• Mick's rural queer experience:
  "I thought that I was the only queer little boy in my hometown. So seeing somebody up on the screen let me know. It's like, it's kind of okay, but you still gotta be quiet because your dad's a cop and he'll kill you if he finds out in Tennessee, you know?" (26:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Time | |---------|---------------| | Season intro & Main theme | 00:57 – 02:21 | | 'My Current Addiction' Segment | 02:29 – 04:20 | | Earliest known queer film | 04:29 – 06:10 | | First queer media memories | 06:10 – 12:19 | | Coming out & media | 12:19 – 13:56 | | Message to younger self | 16:29 – 17:20 | | Boys in the Band & evolving stereotypes| 17:20 – 22:12 | | John Waters, Rocky Horror | 23:05 – 25:41 | | Real life vs. representation | 26:02 – 28:29 | | Hosts reflect on season | 28:34 – 29:52 |

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Tone & Style

• Candid, playful, and deeply personal.
• Hosts weave humor, nostalgia, and critical insight, mixing stories of pain and celebration.
• The camaraderie infuses even heavy topics with hope and resilience, exemplifying the "silver linings" of their journeys.

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Closing Thoughts

The Old Gays use their lived experience and keen memories to illuminate the struggles and joys of being queer onscreen and off, highlighting both the pain of erasure and the thrill of recognition—even if coded or camp. Their laughter, candor, and occasional shade make for a rollicking, reflective hour that honors the endurance and evolution of queer visibility in Hollywood.

Next episode: The conversation moves into the 1980s, exploring how pivotal moments and stories (including The Celluloid Closet and contemporary shows like Heated Rivalry) altered the course of representation.

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Transcript

[Robert Reeves]

Ruby. It's been heard in the hills whispered across the desert sands.

[Bill Lyons]

A sound you can't ignore that grips you in its trance.

[Jesse Martin]

It's a comfort and a joy with wisdom for all your days.

[Mick Peterson]

No, it's not a new season of heated rivalry. It's Silver linings with the gays.

[Jesse Martin]

It's true. We're back for season two. More great stories, thoughtful conversations, and a whole lot of gang.

[Mick Peterson]

From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles in steamy Palm Springs, California, it's Mickey, Robert, Bill, Jesse. And this is silver linings with the

[Robert Reeves]

old gays,

[Mick Peterson]

inspired by all of those who got hooked on heated rivalry last fall. Today we're talking through something that shapes all of us, whether we realize it or not. Movies and television.

[Jesse Martin]

Wait, where's the gay?

[Robert Reeves]

What?

[Mick Peterson]

Gay?

[Bill Lyons]

Exactly.

[Robert Reeves]

To kick off season two with a bang across two episodes, we'll chat about all things gay and queer in mainstream movies and television from throughout our lives

[Jesse Martin]

and how it affected all of us.

[Mick Peterson]

Because when we were kids, mainstream and gay really never shared the same sentence.

[Bill Lyons]

Over our lifetimes, we've watched the pendulum

[Jesse Martin]

swing from coded subtexts to caricatures to

[Mick Peterson]

full blown love stories on the big screen.

[Bill Lyons]

We're talking about the betrayals that scared

[Jesse Martin]

us, the ones that encouraged us, and

[Robert Reeves]

the ones that absolutely missed the mark

[Mick Peterson]

till we finally share all of our real opinions on heated rivalry.

[Jesse Martin]

So press the play button.

[Robert Reeves]

Part one starts now. Hello. So today we're going to do the first 100 years of queer film, starting at the turn of the 20th century and ending in 1981 with the publication of the celluloid closet. But to kick us off, let's start with our new segment, my current Addiction. This is where we get to share something that we're newly very into.

[Bill Lyons]

My current addiction is shrimp tacos from Del Taco.

[Jesse Martin]

Okay, why at this point in your life?

[Bill Lyons]

Because they're seasonal and this is the only time right now I can get them.

[Mick Peterson]

Bill likes shrimp everything.

[Jesse Martin]

Yes, he does. We know that.

[Robert Reeves]

Fish.

[Jesse Martin]

In all forms.

[Robert Reeves]

Do you like salmon roe, Bill?

[Bill Lyons]

Yes, very much.

[Jesse Martin]

How about caviar?

[Bill Lyons]

That is salmon.

[Jesse Martin]

That shows Miss Kansas here.

[Robert Reeves]

My current addiction today is what it was yesterday. AI driven porn. I have discovered AI muscle porn. I tell you, I. Well, let's put it this way. My hand's a little weak right now, And they're virtual, which means they're perfect. Okay, with that out of the way, it's time to talk about the first 100 years of queer film. This is going to be a freewheeling

[Jesse Martin]

conversation and Now a word from Mick.

[Robert Reeves]

The Dixon Experimental Sound Film was made by William Dixon in late 1894 and early 1895. It is the first known film with live recorded sound and appears to be the first motion picture made for the Thomas Edison Studios. The film features Dixon playing a violin into a recording horn. Two men are dancing together to the music, and it lasts 17 seconds. In other words, from the very beginning of film, queer people have been right there in front of the camera and probably behind the camera as well. The reason why I chose, or we chose 1981. It came with the publication of this book, the Celluloid Closet. And what it did is it looked back 100 years of history to show how queer people were portrayed in film and the progression of all of that. And that things really didn't start to break apart until after 1968, when the motion Picture Production Code was abolished. And, you know, that code was very insidious. Among the things was how certain gay characters were actually erased and made into straight characters. But to quote, if there were no gays, there would be no Hollywood. And that quote is attributed to Elizabeth Taylor. Yes.

[Mick Peterson]

Okay. What's the first time you remember seeing queerness in mainstream media, even if it was subtle or you didn't really fully understand it to be queer at the time?

[Jesse Martin]

Well, for me, it's not necessarily queerness that was depicted, but the first time I can remember when my emotions were stirred, if you will, was from a TV series in the mid-1950s produced by Disney called Spin and Marty. And it was a story about two young boys who would spend the summers at camp, and they would have interactions as young boys do. And I knew that there was something different about me. I was about 12 years old at the time, and so that's my first connection between media and gayness, if you will.

[Mick Peterson]

Sweet.

[Bill Lyons]

I remember that. Did you ever see Suddenly last Summer?

[Jesse Martin]

I don't recall. I don't think I did.

[Bill Lyons]

Okay. Because my first time I saw mainstream queerness was Suddenly last Summer.

[Robert Reeves]

The play was written by Tennessee Williams, and it's about a young woman, and she finds herself in a mental hospital. She's the patient of a surgeon, played by Montgomery Cliff. And the wealthy aunt, played by Katharine Hepburn, wants Elizabeth Taylor's character to be lobotomized because she holds a secret about what happened to the wealthy aunt's son and her son's unbelievable death.

[Bill Lyons]

Well, when I saw it, I. I was 16 years old, and I went with my best friend. And when I left the film, I was so confused and upset. At the same time, yes, I was gay, but it was such a shocking movie to see the gay character being cannibalized by young boys that I walked out of the theater just shaking my head. I didn't know what to think about. It scared me and it really bothered me.

[Robert Reeves]

Yeah, that's a sick movie.

[Bill Lyons]

It was so disturbing to see.

[Mick Peterson]

I don't look.

[Jesse Martin]

I probably did not because I. I look at. Actually did not go to movies like that. I went to more light hearted stuff.

[Mick Peterson]

My thing was all fun stuff, Liberace and all of them, the glitter. And I knew from birth that I liked men and Tom Jones, just those hips. The movie stuff I didn't know because I wasn't allowed to go to movies.

[Jesse Martin]

So the first mainstream movie that I saw was Auntie Mame. That was really strongly left an impression on me and made gayness acceptable in some very subtle way.

[Bill Lyons]

It was an absolutely wonderful movie. I mean, it was so well cast.

[Mick Peterson]

All versions of it.

[Bill Lyons]

Yes, yes, all versions of it.

[Robert Reeves]

Okay. Following that, there was a film in 1959 entitled Ben Hur. One of the stars who played Messala was played by an actor who I think is so hot still, Stephen Boyd. He was Australian and he just couldn't understand the part. He just couldn't understand the motivation as to why Masella would be so cruel to the family of Ben Hur. And so he went to one of the writers who was a Gore Vidal, and they came up with a story and that was this. Messala was a lover of Ben Hur who was rejected by Judah Ben Hur. And so everything else that follows in the film is his revenge.

[Jesse Martin]

Well, Ben Hur is the only movie you mentioned that I recognize. And I know that during the 50s, living in Jonesboro, Arkansas, we only had one movie house. And so the Saturday at the cinema was the thing to do. And whenever they had movies such as Ben Hur or Gladiator Gladiators or whatever, you know, I'd be there watching and salivating. And I didn't know for sure why I was doing that.

[Mick Peterson]

Ben Hur takes me back to college. I went to a school where they didn't play movies and stuff, but every year we had Ben Hur. And I go, why are they playing this movie? Over and over? But I was there watching. Every year I saw him roll over. That one guy who unfortunately really got killed. But it was, that's my Ben Hur. And they were sexy, baby.

[Bill Lyons]

I really don't remember that much about Ben Hur, but I love the whole genre of The Gladiators, the pyramids, the Egyptians, the Ten Commandments, the muscles. I loved all those movies because they were all totally muscle bound guys.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Reeves]

Let me ask you this question. Was there any mainstream media that gave you permission to come out?

[Jesse Martin]

No.

[Mick Peterson]

Sure wasn't. Lord have mercy.

[Robert Reeves]

You know, I remember an episode of all in the Family. It's not the famous one where Archie gives a drag queen mouth to mouth resuscitation. It's a scene where Archie, she goes to a drinking buddy of his who's this really hot guy.

[Bill Lyons]

I remember that.

[Robert Reeves]

And he's complaining about that Rob Reiner and Suzanne Struthers, his children had brought home this guy who was very fae acting and he kept griping about it to this drinking buddy. And he looks at Archie and he says, well, Archie, you know I'm gay. And Archie's mouth drops open. And then the guy says, archie, in all the years that I've known you, we've been drinking at this table. Have I ever once mentioned a woman and like a light went off in my head and I said, oh, this is much more interesting than I thought. Maybe my thoughts about a guy like that are real.

[Mick Peterson]

Don't judge a book by a shell.

[Bill Lyons]

I remember that.

[Robert Reeves]

The actuality is that people who are gay are all around you and they're all typ.

[Mick Peterson]

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[Robert Reeves]

We're here, we're queer, and we're old.

[Jesse Martin]

Honey, these knees may not disco like they used to, but I'm still dancing to my own beat.

[Bill Lyons]

When you're gay, being old is something to celebrate.

[Mick Peterson]

That's the T right there. For those of us who survived the HIV AIDS epidemic, there's a big sense of gratitude for every day at the disco.

[Robert Reeves]

And now we love to see the next generation learning to use their voice, build strong community and think about treatment options.

[Bill Lyons]

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[Jesse Martin]

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[Robert Reeves]

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[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

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[Jesse Martin]

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[Bill Lyons]

So if you're living with hiv, do dream about tomorrow.

[Robert Reeves]

Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines.

[Mick Peterson]

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[Jesse Martin]

And now it's time for a message to my younger self.

[Bill Lyons]

If I could tell my younger self something about queerness in the media, I would tell them that gays are not all bad, gays aren't that evil, but we have a right to be ourselves and a lot of people look at us poorly in that. But we are making great inroads.

[Robert Reeves]

If I could tell my younger self something about queerness in media, I would tell them we're fucked.

[Mick Peterson]

Okay, next question. Back to Memory Lane. What about the Boys in the band in 1970? Do you remember that happening?

[Bill Lyons]

For those who may not know, the Boys in the Band by Mark Crowley was a play in a movie about a birthday party of gay men in New York where secrets and social pressures made everyone spiral.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah, that was kind of an event and I definitely remember that. And I related to it because by this point in time I had graduated college, I was in a relationship. I had a social circle of gay friends and a few fag hags, if you will. And the characters that were portrayed, I saw a lot of my friends and the interactions were very relatable. So that was definitely kind of a reaffirming in a strange way movie for me.

[Bill Lyons]

Well, I thought it was very, very funny because they included almost every stereotype you can imagine in the movie. And I laughed all the way through it. And it was 1970, I was in San Francisco and I mean, it was extremely popular. But then something happened and like 20 years or 25 years later, I saw the movie again. But this time I was disgusted with the movie because they were so stereotyped. And it really bothered me. I thought how could I change so quick into loving these characters and all of a sudden feeling they were degrading me because I was in the interior design business and they had a Very flamboyant interior designer in Boys in the Band. But it's funny. I changed my whole thought about the movie after seeing it 20 years later.

[Robert Reeves]

It's this whole idea that we can't be happy. We cannot be happy. We don't even have a chance at pursuing happiness. And that's just not the way it is. We're in so many ways, just like everybody else. We haven't talked about things like Soap.

[Mick Peterson]

Oh, the TV show.

[Robert Reeves]

The TV show, which had a gay returning character, which I thought was very funny because it was a set up. It was a farce. Yeah, a farce. And you laughed with it and you thought, yeah, yeah, the stereotypes, you know, and that's why they were putting it down.

[Mick Peterson]

That's because it was written by straight men who had the same idea that everybody else. That we're miserable people.

[Robert Reeves]

Yeah. You know, if you want to talk about another film, a mainstream media that gave you permission to come out was a film called the Producers. And of course it features. Okay, well, the setup is another perfect crime. And that shows that are a financial disaster, that close on opening night are never audited by the IRS. So you can sell 150 of a show, but because it goes belly up, you hold on to the proceeds. And that's what the producers in the movies conspire to do. And one of the things they do is to guarantee the show is gonna flop. We're gonna hire the worst director on Broadway, Roger dubois. And Roger dubois, no wonder, is a drag queen. And the scene that he comes in and he's wearing a black girdle, right? And his assistant is a man who wears tight black pants, a black turtleneck that goes all the way up to his chin. And he had monocle and a Van Dyke kind of beard. And he would look at you with through his monocle. And his name was Carmen Gia. Anyway, so they go to this house and he says, oh, I don't want to do another musical. You know, Dewey show. Girls in flashy dresses doing the same time step. 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. Oh, it's enough to make you puke. And it's so.

[Mick Peterson]

I loved it. Yeah, I loved it. I like gay things. Gay characters gave me freedom. Anybody gay bad or anything. It was just like I was seeing somebody that I could relate to. Not the typical macho man, but I like those macho men, too. That's what I'm attracted to, being as dainty as I am. Yeah, I loved it because I didn't see it. I was In Tennessee, you know, this was like a dessert at the end of a meal to me. Every time I saw a gay person, I would just, like, stop. And even at home, I could be running around, but something gay would come on and. And my parents still didn't know. They were sweet. But, yes, it stopped me every time.

[Jesse Martin]

What about John Waters films? Did those find their way to you? And how did they affect you?

[Bill Lyons]

Well, I hope you won't take away my gay card, but I've never seen a John Walters movie.

[Mick Peterson]

And I might have, but I don't know who he is. Was. Is.

[Jesse Martin]

I remember in the 70s scene, pink flamingos with Divine. And it was kind of a disgusting movie in lots of ways. Divine as an example. One of the most memorable scenes for me was when Divine, dressed in her drag, ate dog Doo doo.

[Robert Reeves]

That's at the end of the picture.

[Jesse Martin]

And that kind of disgusted me, you know.

[Robert Reeves]

It is one of the most disgusting films you will ever see. I mean, I read the review of it, and it's now considered a. A piece of abstract art.

[Mick Peterson]

That's what they call it. Abstract.

[Robert Reeves]

It's abstract, yes. And I thought, abstract, okay, well, you know, those who do, do.

[Mick Peterson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Martin]

But then a few years later, he did produce the movie Tracy Turnblatt, Baltimore Hairspray. Hairspray, yeah. Which was very fun and uplifting and definitely not disgusting.

[Mick Peterson]

No.

[Bill Lyons]

What about Rocky Horror Picture Show?

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Reeves]

You know, in Orange county, when I was going to graduate school at Irvine, you know, everybody wanted to go out for Rocky Horror Picture Night. Everybody wanted to go everywhere.

[Jesse Martin]

Yes.

[Robert Reeves]

And I just thought, no, this isn't for me. You know, I prefer watching Pumping Iron. You know, I'm into Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Bill Lyons]

I really thought the movie was just big camp, you know. I mean, it was totally different from any other movie I've ever seen before or since.

[Jesse Martin]

Tim Curry's costumes, though, were outrageous. The way he carried off the character.

[Robert Reeves]

Oh, yes. And how he seduces the young man. Yes.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah.

[Robert Reeves]

Yeah. And that also comes up all the time because gay and lesbian characters are usually depicted as predators victimizing unsuspecting young people. That is a common place that you see throughout film. Yeah.

[Bill Lyons]

Next question. What was the difference between the gay identity you were living and the way it was being depicted on screen was this attention for you?

[Mick Peterson]

I thought that I was the only queer little boy in my hometown. So seeing somebody up on the screen let me know. It's like, it's kind of okay, but you still gotta be quiet because your dad's a cop and he'll kill you if he finds out in Tennessee, you know? So it was an eye opener. It was a freeing time for me. Anything gay I wanted to see.

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah, it was kind of a gradual acceptance that I felt. Even though the characters weren't always complementary, the fact that they were even being depicted was a big difference for me. And so I felt like, in a strange way, there was hope for better

[Robert Reeves]

times ahead because of the time that I came out and also the fact that I was studying to be an actor. I was very critical of these types of films. What I saw was nothing that had to do with the life that I was living. There just seems to have been this disconnect and this refusal to see us, at least in Hollywood at that time. And it's even worse in European cinema. I think of the movie Z by Costa Gravas, which is a very homophobic film. I'm also thinking about a film called the Killing of Sister George, which is about a lesbian soap opera star who finds out that she's being axed. Her part is being killed, and at the same time, her companion, her lifetime lover, played by Susannah Yorke, leaves her. So she's out of a job and her lover has left her. And at the very end of the play, she finds out, well, you can go back to the soap opera, but you have to play, I believe, the front part of a cow. And she's absolutely mortified. But at the end of the movie, there's a pin spot on the character, the lead character, George, and she says, moo.

[Mick Peterson]

Okay,

[Bill Lyons]

And that's a wrap.

[Mick Peterson]

All right, boys, you know what time it is. What's your silver lining for season two of the podcast?

[Jesse Martin]

Yeah, I'm very excited about it.

[Robert Reeves]

Just seeing where everything lands, you know, everything. Every one of these things is a new experience. It's a new adventure, and you never know how it's going to turn out. So that's the beauty of it.

[Mick Peterson]

And I like the unknown part of it, not totally knowing what's going to happen. I like natural stuff. I really do.

[Bill Lyons]

And I like it because I'm learning so much more about my friends here that I never knew before. I'm appreciating it because I'm really learning a lot about the old gay.

[Mick Peterson]

Because he didn't read the book.

[Robert Reeves]

I'm kidding,

[Mick Peterson]

but for real. A shameless plug for our audiobook, the Old Gay's Guide to the Good Life. Available wherever you get your audiobooks. Nice. But, you know, we're learning, too. Everybody's in this game together called life.

[Robert Reeves]

Are you weeping over there?

[Bill Lyons]

Next time on Silver Linings with the old gays.

[Robert Reeves]

1981, the celluloid closet and what made everything change. Still want to know our thoughts on heated rivalry? Tune in to wear for part two.

[Bill Lyons]

Silver Linings is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studios and the Outspoken Network. We're your hosts, Bill Lyons, Robert Reeves,

[Mick Peterson]

Mick Peterson and Jesse Martin. Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser. Supervising producer, Kelly Kyle Story production Ryan Amador with post post production by Eric Zeiler. See you in two weeks.

[Jesse Martin]

Subject matter comes across much better when it's done in a comedic way. Why the Golden Girls were so successful

[Bill Lyons]

I kind of related to Will as in Will and Grace because I worked in a clothing store, but I had to act straight.

[Robert Reeves]

I don't know what it takes to open these guys up. I think they should all get stoned.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

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This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Robert Reeves]

Guaranteed human.