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[00:00]
Willa Paskin
Hi, it's willa. Back in 2022, I became aware of a cult record from the 1980s. So incredible and so strange, so kitschy and yet well made that it routinely makes its way around the Internet. A blast of weirdness from the past. It's a set of songs ostensibly performed by an icon of public safety from the 1980s. And here it is. To have questions, it pulses with drop everything and figure out what, why and how the hell this thing is energy. And since dropping everything to figure interesting things out is just about the sworn duty of us here at Decoder Ring, that's what we did. We took these ridiculous songs as a starting point and soon found ourselves in much headier territory. Two episodes worth of territory, actually. So we'll be re airing both episodes, starting with the first one right now. Hope you enjoy. When Daniel Danger was growing up in the early 1990s, he had a number of run ins with this one particular dog.
[01:12]
Daniel Danger
It was just this weird presence, you know, this weird, grumpy old cartoon dog.
[01:16]
McGruff the Crime Dog
I'm McGruff the crime dog.
[01:19]
Willa Paskin
McGraw was a trench coat wearing bloodhound with a hang dog demeanor who dispensed advice about crime prevention, personal safety, gone. And drugs.
[01:28]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Oh, you don't owe me. See, it's my job to teach you to protect yourselves. Make it your job to learn.
[01:35]
Willa Paskin
He also had a catchphrase.
[01:36]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Take a bite out of crime.
[01:39]
Willa Paskin
He was a regular presence at Daniels, Massachusetts elementary School. He was on the outside of it.
[01:45]
Daniel Danger
There was like an event where you brought your bike to school and then they would put a big flag on it. And I remember McGruff being there in
[01:53]
Willa Paskin
person and he was on the inside
[01:54]
Daniel Danger
too with like, you know, wheel in the TV on a cart and, and put in a little VHS of McGruff telling you to avoid strangers and not get like touched by people or get into cars.
[02:07]
McGruff the Crime Dog
That's Jenny, but that's not Jenny's dad
[02:10]
Daniel Danger
basically telling you you're, you're gonna get kidnapped. Which is a dark thing to tell
[02:14]
McGruff the Crime Dog
a fifth grader if she gets into that car. That may be the last time you'll see Jenny.
[02:20]
Daniel Danger
We had the puppet.
[02:22]
Willa Paskin
This would have been a 2 foot tall, chocolatey brown hand puppet in plaid pants and a trench coat.
[02:28]
Daniel Danger
There was a cassette tape that the teacher put in and then they would mimic along with a puppet and they'd teach you like, you know, like, don't do drugs, don't bully, blah, blah, blah.
[02:36]
Rob Nelson
Hello, everybody. McGruff here. I just want to remind you that we all have a job to do. Take a bite out of crime. You can make your life a safer one.
[02:49]
Willa Paskin
After elementary school, Daniel's encounters with McGruff petered out.
[02:52]
Jack Kyle
Out.
[02:52]
Willa Paskin
He didn't think of him much until the mid-2000s when he and a friend were at a thrift store.
[02:57]
Daniel Danger
In the pile of just like, random stuff was a McGruff puppet and this cassette tape.
[03:03]
Willa Paskin
The cassette tape was called McGruff's Smart Kids Album. On the COVID a plush McGruff, like the one that had been in Daniel's classroom, leans against a brick wall, one arm slung over it and the other hand in a trench coat pocket.
[03:17]
Daniel Danger
And we had that, like, you know, like, just nostalgic of, like, McGruff. Remember McGruff? And so we bought this cassette and we, like, put it in the car and listen to it.
[03:31]
Rob Nelson
Never try marijuana. Don't try it at all.
[03:38]
McGruff the Crime Dog
It's a lie.
[03:40]
Rob Nelson
It's like beating your head on a
[03:42]
Jack Kyle
wall,
[03:45]
Rob Nelson
using cracking cocaine to get high. That's what you say you, but it's really insane. You could die. What are you thinking of?
[04:02]
Daniel Danger
Like, they're kind of catchy, they're weird. They sound like Steely Dan. Like, it doesn't make any sense.
[04:06]
Rob Nelson
Hey, open up your eyes, you've got to see Alcohol fills your world with lies. Listen to me, it's no good when you're drinking.
[04:29]
Michael Hobbs
When I first heard these songs, I felt genuinely overwhelmed, flummoxed that such a
[04:35]
Willa Paskin
tape could exist, that it could be real.
[04:38]
Michael Hobbs
And as the car filled up with an unholy combination of music, melody, character and message, Daniel was confounded too.
[04:48]
Daniel Danger
I want to know who actually wrote these. These songs are kind of banger.
[05:01]
Michael Hobbs
This is Decoder Ring. I'm Willa Paskin. McGraw the crime dog arrived on the scene at the dawn of the 1980s
[05:07]
Willa Paskin
just as a fire hose of public
[05:09]
Michael Hobbs
service announcements, particularly about drugs, was about to flood over the youth of America, inundating them in messages about what to do, think, fear and say no to. Over the next two episodes, we're going to be looking at PSAs, their efficacy and strange afterlife through the story of one trench coat wearing spokesdog and his bizarre yet catchy anti drug anthems. It's a tale that involves, in just this first episode, a so called war, the Department of Justice, a first lady on a mission, celebrity sing alongs, senate Sunday school puppets, and the messages people think will work on kids. So today on Decoder Ring, the first episode in a two parter about one very special message how did McGruff and his smart Kids album come to exist?
[06:19]
Mike Hawes
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[06:27]
Sherry Nemmers
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[06:28]
Mike Hawes
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[06:47]
Hannah Berner
This is Hannah Berner, the co host of Giggly Squad. We could all just stay in bed scrolling through other people's vacations forever, but where is the fun in that? The best memories come from stepping outside of your little bubble and being open to the unexpected. And what better way to be open to the unexpected than finally booking that trip to Europe. You guys know I'm a Delta girly. Every time I go, I got my Delta headphones. And when I fly to Europe, Delta treats me like a queen. And they'll treat you too. I was always a little nervous about navigating a foreign country, but then I realized it's so important to grow and see different cultures and to put yourself in different situations. And Delta held my hand the whole time. Being away just helps you put life into perspective, and your little worries are not so bad. Travel really is the best way to discover something new about yourself and grow from the experience. Step outside your comfort zone this summer, get some Delta headphones and fly with Delta Airlines. They truly are the best way to get to Europe, and they just make the whole journey feel so comfortable and seamless. Go book your next chapter right now@delta.com.
[08:00]
Willa Paskin
The first time the public met the crime dog, In February of 1980, he was letting himself into a stranger's house.
[08:06]
McGruff the Crime Dog
You know what I think? I think you forgot to lock your door.
[08:09]
Willa Paskin
He was so new that he didn't even have a name yet. He'd only become a gruff a few months later after a naming contest. Even so, he was already on the job, carrying a flashlight and imparting common sense advice about how to deter robberies.
[08:24]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Light up your doors. Lights make burglars nervous, and make your windows secure.
[08:31]
Willa Paskin
McGruff owes his existence to crime, which spiked over the course of the 1970s. By the end of the decade, the issue had become a motivating anxiety for voters, so the Department of Justice decided to put $300,000 towards a public service campaign addressing it. And they reached out to the Ad Council to get it made. The ad Council is a nonprofit arm of the advertising industry that gets blue chip ad agencies to do pro bono PSAs founded during World War II to help with the war effort and also brush up the industry's reputation. The ad Council is responsible for a number of very memorable campaigns, but maybe none more so than one of its first.
[09:15]
Mike Hawes
You have so many reasons to protect your forests. Remember, only you can prevent forest fires.
[09:22]
Willa Paskin
That's Smokey the bear. He began demonstrating that an animal enclosed could be an effective messenger back in 1944. But it would take the ad executive in charge of the new campaign a while to remember that.
[09:35]
Jack Kyle
They came to us in 1979 and asked us if we would do some advertising campaign that would help decrease crime in this country. Well, you know, that's a, a major challenge.
[09:49]
Willa Paskin
Jack Kyle was a creative director at Dancer Fitzgerald Sample, the ad agency tapped by the Ad Council to make the campaign. Kyle died in 2017. What you're hearing comes from an interview he did with Eric Greenberg.
[10:02]
Jack Kyle
We did a lot of research, a lot of focus groups. I even wrote in the back of a New York City police car.
[10:07]
Willa Paskin
The agency took away two major things from this research. The first was that the cops really wanted community help. And the second was that citizens felt like crime was too big, too insurmountable a problem to do anything about.
[10:22]
Jack Kyle
They came up with a strategy to try and convince people there were little things that they could do to help make their lives safer and help decrease crime, even if only in a neighborhood.
[10:33]
Willa Paskin
But even with a strategy, a clear idea of what the campaign should communicate, they didn't have a clear idea of what the ads should be. Just a very fast approaching deadline. Days before Jack had to pitch something. A cross country flight he was on made an emergency stopover in Kansas City.
[10:53]
Jack Kyle
So there we were in the middle of the Kansas city airport at 2 in the morning and I suddenly thought, let me just sit and think and think and think and doodle and see if I can create something. And I thought maybe we need a cartoon of stokey bear. Smokey Bear was very, maybe an animal, another animal would be good. And I thought, well have a lion and you know, a roar, roar of crime or an elephant stomp on crime. None of those are anything. So I sat back, I went back to the strategy and we were asking the people actually to snip at crime. And at that point, sitting there, the thing I said, snippet crime bite at Crime. And I suddenly, I rose right up in my chair and I think I yelled it in the airport. Take a bite out of crime. Wow.
[11:43]
Willa Paskin
The whole thing came to Jack all at once. The character would be a dog, he'd be animated, everything else would be real. In the TV ads, he'd walk into a crime in progress and talk directly to the audience. There was just one wrinkle in Jack's sketches. The dog looked like a manger, Snoopy. When he got back to the agency and pitched his team on the concept, they loved everything about it but the dog.
[12:10]
Jack Kyle
You gotta have somebody with authority. I said, all right, wise guys, we got 12 hours. I want to see some dogs.
[12:15]
Willa Paskin
Jack assigned five teams to come up with something better.
[12:19]
Sherry Nemmers
Well, the contest was fantastic. Within the agency, everybody was just competing with everybody at all hours.
[12:25]
Willa Paskin
Sherry Nemmers is an advertising executive who would go on to create the Charmin Bear. But back then she was a 21 year old copywriter.
[12:33]
Sherry Nemmers
I'm sorry to tell you, the other word they used at the time was gang bang. We had a gang bang on it.
[12:37]
Willa Paskin
When the teams came back, we got
[12:39]
Jack Kyle
a lot of dogs.
[12:40]
Sherry Nemmers
There was a cute little dog named Spot, the Wonder Dog.
[12:43]
Jack Kyle
They had a bulldog, J. Edgar dog, but would not go because part of this campaign was being funded by the Justice Department. And J. Edgar Hoover at that time was head of the Justice Department.
[12:55]
Sherry Nemmers
Another was Sarge, he was a German shepherd.
[12:59]
Jack Kyle
So suddenly in came a copywriter, Sherry Nimmers, and an art director, Ray Cravassi. And they just unveiled this dog, this hound dog with deep set eyes in a trench coat, hands in his pocket looking with a long nose. They said, this is the dog that we like because he epitomizes all of the private eyes, the investigators we see over time in the movies. And they're listened to and they're wise.
[13:31]
Sherry Nemmers
Jack, he just jumped out of his chair and he just. That's it. He said, that's it.
[13:39]
Willa Paskin
The first version of the crime dog smoked a cigar, which he would lose, and sounded an awful lot like Columbo, the homicide detective played by Peter Falk in the hit 1970s series of the same name.
[13:52]
McGruff the Crime Dog
One more thing, sir. I almost forgot how much time elapsed between the exchange of ship shots and you're getting to the phone booth to call the police.
[14:02]
Willa Paskin
In fact, after Jack and Sherry successfully pitched the crime dog to the ad Council and the Department of Justice, they batted around the idea of trying to get Peter Falk for the voice. But for Sher ners, who would be the point person on the campaign for over a decade, the crime dog had always sounded like someone else, too.
[14:21]
Sherry Nemmers
You were creating a dog that had an amazing resemblance to two people. One was Colombo and the other was Jack. And Columbo was the one everybody would know, but Jack was the one that we would know.
[14:35]
Willa Paskin
Before becoming an accomplished ad man, Kyle had done some radio voice work as a kid in Rochester, survived 50 bomber missions during World War II, and then tried to make it as an actor. In his spare time, he sang with a jazz band called the Smug Town Stompers. He was the perfect voice for McGruff.
[14:53]
McGruff the Crime Dog
All crime needs is a chance. Don't give it the chance.
[14:57]
Willa Paskin
McGruff and the take a Bite out of Crime campaign began to roll out in 1980, appearing on posters and billboards and in magazines, newspapers, and radio and TV spots. The first three TV ads, in keeping with the original strategy, are very concrete. Keep your lights on. Have someone pick up your mail. Enjoying the neighborhood watch?
[15:18]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Hey, McGruff here. See that guy? He's stealing that bike.
[15:23]
Willa Paskin
As McGruff is talking, the camera shows a young white man putting a bike in a van.
[15:28]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Now, see that lady?
[15:30]
Sherry Nemmers
Bike theft.
[15:30]
McGruff the Crime Dog
She's calling the cops.
[15:32]
Willa Paskin
It's an elderly white woman speaking into a giant walkie talkie.
[15:36]
McGruff the Crime Dog
This is Mimi Marth, part of the Eyes and Ears Patrol of Hartford, Connecticut.
[15:41]
Willa Paskin
Pretty quickly, the early ads seem to make an impact. But what does it mean for a PSA to make an impact? What does it mean for a PSA to work? So PSAs are a pretty straightforward proposition. They're announcements that serve the public and so are distributed for free in order to hopefully have some kind of positive effect. But before a PSA can have any effect at all, positive or otherwise, people have to see it. So that's step one.
[16:17]
Sherry Nemmers
You must get your message in front of the people that you want to try to influence.
[16:22]
Willa Paskin
Joseph Capella is an emeritus professor at the University of Pennsylvania who studies messaging in politics and public health.
[16:29]
Sherry Nemmers
If you don't get your message in front of them somehow, then you have no chance of having that message be effective. So that's always principle number one.
[16:38]
Willa Paskin
The term of art here is exposure. Your PSA has to get exposure. Most of them don't. McGruff, though, did. Within a year, the ads had $100 million worth of donated ad time, which is a lot, and 50% of Americans had seen one. But while exposure is a key first step for a successful PSA, it's not enough.
[17:00]
Sherry Nemmers
Principle number two is, will they pay attention to it.
[17:05]
Willa Paskin
50% of Americans seeing an ad sounds like a lot until you realize that just because people have seen something doesn't mean they attended to it at all. Which makes what McGruff did even more impressive. A million people took the time to write in and request the pamphlets he mentions. At the end of every ad, write
[17:24]
McGruff the Crime Dog
McGruff, Chicago, IL 60652. That's McGruff, Chicago, IL 60653. And you'll be helping me take a bite out of crime.
[17:34]
Willa Paskin
So that's step two. But getting people to write in for information, as impressive as that is, doesn't seem like all McGruff was trying to accomplish. He told people to do things, and that's step three. And it's also where the efficacy of PSAs starts to get really fuzzy. You're a PSA skeptical? I'm very PSA skeptical. Michael Hobbs is the co host of the podcast Maintenance Phase, which looks at the junk science behind health and wellness fad. Oftentimes, the evidence that they use to
[18:06]
Sherry Nemmers
show that it worked is things like,
[18:08]
Willa Paskin
you know, 70% of respondents remember seeing the billboards. These things that are like input measures. That's not, as a society, what we're actually going for.
[18:17]
Sherry Nemmers
The purpose of the billboards is to
[18:19]
Willa Paskin
get people like, not to smoke weed. Michael is getting at the fine distinction between steps two and three, between what is known as an awareness or exposure campaign and a behavior campaign. Some PSAs are just awareness campaigns. A good example is early HIV PSAs, which were built to make viewers aware that HIV was a disease and of how it could be transmitted. How much do you know about aids? Looks like we have a couple of things to talk about, huh? But other PSAs are behavior campaigns. They're raising awareness, but they are also either explicitly or implicitly promoting an action. Wear your seatbelt, stop littering, quit smoking. Or in McGruff's case, while you're gone,
[19:06]
McGruff the Crime Dog
have a neighbor keep an eye on your house, you know, pick up your mail, keep the place looking lived in, and use a timer to turn lights on and off.
[19:15]
Willa Paskin
But getting people to change their behavior is hard. And even if they do change their behavior, it can be hard to suss out exactly why. Was it the PSA or a whole constellation of messaging and media stories, education and interactions. It's easier and often faster to measure exposure. And so you hear about how much people saw something, how present a PSA was in their lives. And McGraw was absolutely a smash on this score. By 1984, he was on postage stamps and meeting with the President. He was widely credited with the rise of neighborhood watch programs, which he talked about with Dick Cavett.
[19:57]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Now, do I understand that neighborhood watch
[19:59]
David Farber
programs have reduced crime in some areas
[20:01]
Jack Kyle
as much as 50%?
[20:03]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Ah, that's right. But there's more to be done.
[20:05]
Willa Paskin
And he was thought to be fantastic with kids.
[20:09]
Sherry Nemmers
Kids loved him.
[20:10]
Willa Paskin
Sherry Nemmers, who helped create McGraw, you
[20:13]
Sherry Nemmers
know, he was like a huggable authority figure. So kids listen to him. And we didn't expect that. We did not expect that kids were going to be the target, but they became the audience for us.
[20:23]
Willa Paskin
And so as the decade progressed, McGraw would be put to work on what was considered to be the pressing issue facing the youth of America. Drugs.
[20:42]
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[21:19]
Adam Grant
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[21:57]
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[22:28]
Willa Paskin
In June of 1971, Richard Nixon announced the United States had a new and dangerous foe. America's public enemy number one in the
[22:38]
Rob Nelson
United States is drug abuse.
[22:42]
Willa Paskin
In order to fight and defeat this
[22:43]
David Farber
enemy, it is necessary to wage a
[22:46]
Willa Paskin
new all out offensive. The press began referring to this offensive as the war on drugs. But in this early phase it wasn't as aggressive as it would become. Nixon put most of the resources of the federal government in treatment and rehabilitation. David Farber is an historian at the University of Kansas and the editor of the War on Drugs A History. It wasn't like Nixon was saying, lock em all up, put em away forever. That would be our friend President Reagan who did that. In the late 1970s, as drug use and violent crime was spiking, Ronald Reagan swept into office promising the electorate a much more punitive approach. It's time for honest talk. All too often repeat offenders, habitual law breakers, career criminals, call them what you
[23:35]
David Farber
will, are robbing, raping and beating with
[23:40]
Willa Paskin
impunity and as I said, quite literally getting away with murder. At the federal, state and municipal levels. Incarceration rates for drug crimes began to rise dramatically, skyrocketing as the crack epidemic began. And they would remain at extraordinarily high levels for decades. Millions of Americans were sent to prison on nonviolent drug charges, a hugely disproportionate percentage of them men of color and black men in particular. And as prisons began to fill, the soft power side of the war on drugs was ramping up as well.
[24:14]
Sherry Nemmers
How many of you have heard about the drug problem in our schools?
[24:18]
Willa Paskin
That's first lady Nancy Reagan in a 1983 episode of the hit sitcom Different Strokes.
[24:24]
Sherry Nemmers
How do you feel about drugs?
[24:26]
Willa Paskin
Well, I think drugs are disgusting and
[24:28]
Paige from Giggly Squad
I'd never take them.
[24:29]
Sherry Nemmers
My name is Lisa and I'm a Republican. Thank you, Lisa. I have a hunch the Democrats are against drugs too.
[24:45]
Willa Paskin
Soon after taking office, Nancy Reagan selected teen drug abuse as her pet issue. It was, as you just heard of bipartisan concern. And drug use, particularly of marijuana, was on the rise with teenagers. And here it's a lot of white
[25:00]
Sherry Nemmers
teenagers, a lot of middle class teenagers, a lot of suburban teenagers.
[25:05]
Willa Paskin
They're getting stoned and maybe they're getting stoned a lot. So Nancy Reagan began to visit schools and rehab facilities crisscrossing the country to speak with children and educators, to go on morning talk shows trying to bring awareness to this cause. In October of 1983, she visited an advertising agency, Needham Harper and Steers, working on the issue. They'd been tapped by the ad Council to develop a new public service campaign to curtail child drug abuse. She approved of the message, so wholeheartedly she pledged to personally get the campaign $25 million worth of media commitments. The ads began to run in 1984.
[25:44]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Cocaine? No, thanks. Yo, my man, you want some nudes? No way.
[25:50]
Willa Paskin
If someone offers you drugs, instead of saying something you really you don't mean, just say no. And she did something else that put this particular saying over the top. She started using it herself.
[26:02]
Sherry Nemmers
Say yes to your life. And when it comes to drugs and alcohol, just say no.
[26:08]
McGruff the Crime Dog
And there's something catchy about it.
[26:09]
Jack Kyle
Let's.
[26:10]
Willa Paskin
Let's not kid ourselves. It's like a beautiful catchphrase.
[26:12]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no.
[26:13]
Willa Paskin
Hundreds of just say no clubs began to pop up in communities and schools across the country, which were also being visited by dare. DARE stands for Drug Abuse Resistance Education.
[26:26]
McGruff the Crime Dog
DARE to keep a kid off drugs.
[26:30]
Willa Paskin
It was created in 1983 when Los Angeles Police Department joined forces with its public schools to send uniformed cops into schools to speak about the dangers of drugs and crime. By the end of the decade, it was federally funded and in 75% of schools, spreading the gospel of just say no. With it, child drug abuse and prevention became the cause du jour. The issue with politicians, public figures, business leaders, law enforcement, educators, and celebrities eagerly speaking up to support it, Anti drug messaging flourished. This song and music video from 1985 featured Whitney Houston, Latoya Jackson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, David Hasselhoff, and the first lady herself. Celebrities did solo PSAs, too.
[27:24]
Mike Hawes
I just want to shake some sense into you kids that I use in drugs and think about using. So remember, don't or else.
[27:32]
Willa Paskin
That's Mr. T. And sitcoms like Punky Brewster spread the message, too.
[27:38]
Paige from Giggly Squad
Then you gonna party with us?
[27:41]
Mike Hawes
No.
[27:43]
Willa Paskin
In 1986, against the backdrop of the rising crack epidemic, Reagan signed the Anti Drug Abuse act. It earmarked 1.7 billion additional dollars for the War on Drugs and established new mandatory minimum prison sentences. Reagan also signed a proclamation declaring the first official Just say no to drugs Week. And it's in this environment that McGruff the crime dog decided to lend his voice to the cause, thanks in part to some Christian puppet masters on the West Coast.
[28:18]
Rob Nelson
Users are losers and losers are users. So don't use drugs. Don't use drugs. Nice going. Now, teacher, to your mom and dad and brothers and sisters and friends.
[28:31]
Paige from Giggly Squad
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[28:57]
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[29:39]
Willa Paskin
McGruff's Smart Kids album, which we played at the top of this episode, was released in 1986, but its origins stretch back to November of 1969, when a new kind of kids television program premiered on pbs.
[29:52]
McGruff the Crime Dog
An educational One sunny day sweeping up clouds away,
[30:01]
Willa Paskin
Sesame street reimagined what children children's TV could be and what it could do. And it also made puppets like Oscar the Grouch, Bert and Ernie, and Kermit the Frog seem like a hip and effective way to reach kids.
[30:14]
David Farber
We saw what Jim Henson was doing. We thought, well, let's just design some puppets for churches. That's kind of how the company began.
[30:23]
Willa Paskin
That's Mike Hawes. In the early 1970s, his father, Bill Hawes, a music and education minister in Southern California, founded a company called Puppet Productions. Bill died in 2020, but for years he oversaw the company, which made colorful felt puppets like Mr. Quimper, a puppet Mike designed for a show he developed called Quimper's Corner.
[30:47]
Mike Hawes
Evening ladies. Evening gents. Welcome to the show. I'd like to introduce myself named Quipper, don't you know.
[30:53]
David Farber
He worked in a soda shop and he was also a sunny school teacher. And so the kids would come in and he would order ice cream and shake and he they would have issues that would come up in life.
[31:05]
Mike Hawes
I work inside my soda shop from 9 to 5 each day. I talk with all my little friends when they come in from play.
[31:11]
David Farber
Then he would kind of give him kind of a Bible lesson on, you know, how to deal with that issue.
[31:22]
Jack Kyle
Today.
[31:25]
Willa Paskin
Characters like Mr. Quimper encouraged good Christian values, but they were also the tip of the spear for an elaborate business that involved the company leading seminars in churches where they would Train youth group members in puppetry so that those groups could then buy puppets and shows like Quimper's Corner from the company. The shows, which included music, skits and dialogue, were all made and recorded at puppet headquarters and then sent out to customers.
[31:54]
David Farber
It was a cassette tape with the music and character voices and all that pre done and then they could just play the tape and lip sync to the audio.
[32:05]
Willa Paskin
Mike wrote and produced almost all of the music for these cassettes. Handling a lot of the lyrics was a man named Rob Nelson, who'd started with the company as a puppeteer on a show called Alcohol on Trial.
[32:17]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
It was a pre recorded thing which featured a character named Zachary Daiquiri.
[32:21]
Willa Paskin
Zachary Daiquiri, you are charged with neglect and attempted murder.
[32:26]
Mike Hawes
Of who?
[32:27]
Willa Paskin
Of yourself. Zachary Daiquiri is a lumberjack looking puppet with a bushy red mustache and flannel shirt.
[32:34]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
Four of his body parts told him what happened when he over consumed alcohol.
[32:40]
Willa Paskin
My job is to pump Zach's blood to all the parts of his body. Now when he drinks, the alcohol slows me down.
[32:48]
Jack Kyle
I can't pump as much blood.
[32:50]
Willa Paskin
Zach could have a heart attack. In fact, I could die.
[32:56]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
And this was for kids. So we'd go to a school and do this show to educate the kids about the effects of alcohol on the human body.
[33:03]
Willa Paskin
Rob turned out to be such a natural at puppeteering that he was promoted and then promoted again as the business got bigger and bigger.
[33:11]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
It went crazy. In the heyday, let's say the early 80s, we were doing maybe 100,000 puppets a year. We had 40 people working in the factory making puppets.
[33:24]
Willa Paskin
Most of their output continued to be Christian themed and educational. But they would also get approached about commissions. And one day they heard from a sheriff's deputy in San Diego.
[33:33]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
She was a community officer and she wanted to do crime prevention as part of her presentation. And she wanted to do a puppet show. And so we said, well, okay, let's see what we can do with that.
[33:46]
Willa Paskin
So they created a short original show based on factual information the sheriff supplied them. It contained a couple of songs and one or two puppets so the sheriff could do the whole thing herself. When they were done, they started thinking about who else the program might appeal to. They were a scrappy small business, always looking for more opportunities. Maybe they could repackage a crime prevention puppet show and sell it to law enforcement. Or hey, maybe they could repackage a crime prevention puppet show and sell it to the crime prevention dog.
[34:19]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
What about this McGruff character? That's a Natural fit. Let's talk to them.
[34:25]
Willa Paskin
Them was the National Crime Prevention Council, the nonprofit that houses McGruff but still worked with the Department of Justice and the AD Council Console. The first thing they successfully pitched was a life size McGruff puppet that Mike built.
[34:38]
David Farber
The puppet would be able to sit up in a police car on the passenger side. So, you know, they would have these McGruff puppets riding around in these cop cars.
[34:49]
Willa Paskin
Then they started making some full mascot suits for law enforcement.
[34:53]
David Farber
We came up with some animatronics in it where the. The eyes would blink, the mouth would open and close, but electronically.
[35:02]
Willa Paskin
Finally, they got permission to record some songs in the voice of McGruff. Or maybe permission is the wrong word.
[35:08]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
The NCPC said this. We will give you a license to use the character, and you will give us a percentage of whatever money you make on it.
[35:17]
Willa Paskin
So they started doing what they had been doing for years. Make a puppet, record a show for that puppet, put that show on a cassette, and then sell both in this case to law enforcement.
[35:29]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
So initially it was just for cops. That's all that they would allow. Then Bill, who was always the let's push this, you know, really farther than we actually can kind of guy, said, you know what? Every classroom in America needs a McGruff in it.
[35:47]
Willa Paskin
And that's how McGruff and his songs began to make their way into Daniel Danger's element. Elementary school and car cassette player Mama.
[35:56]
Rob Nelson
Maybe other kids are doing drugs and saying that you really ought to come along.
[36:04]
Willa Paskin
Next week, we take on the creation of the Smart Kids album and consider the unintended consequences of unleashing something like McGruff and his songs onto the world.
[36:15]
Rob Nelson
Just say no.
[36:17]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no.
[36:19]
Willa Paskin
It's all about the sticky, potent afterlife of even the wackest messages.
[36:25]
Daniel Danger
I just like, I don't know why I have all this weird crime dog stuff, but like, yeah, I have the puppet.
[36:33]
Willa Paskin
Till then. This is Dakota Ring. I'm Willa Paskin. As ever, please consider signing up for Decoder Ring. Plus, you get to skip all the ads and hear every episode of Decoder Ring's back where I personally call one of you up our listeners and answer your cultural mystery. You'll also be supporting all of the work we do. You can join by going to the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or visiting slate.com decoder ringplus. This episode was written by me and produced by me and Katie Shepard. We had production help from Sam Kim, editing by Jamie York and Derek John. Decoder Ring is also produced by Max Friedman and Evan Chung. Our supervising producer, Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Phoebe Mulder is our intern. Thank you to Wendy Melillo, Dan McQuaid, Dale Mantley, Larissa Zargaris, Daisy Rosario, Dave Bledsoe, Larry Johnson, Dwayne Poole, Ari Merkin, Charles and Karen Rosen, and Eric Greenberg. I'd also like to mention a book that was very helpful in working on this piece, Wendy Melillo's How McGruff and the Crying Indian Changed America, A History of Iconic Ad Council Campaigns. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, please email us@decoder ringslate.com or you can leave us a message at 347-460-7281. We love hearing from you guys and we'll see you in two weeks for part two.
[38:02]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no Just say no Just say no Just say no.
[38:25]
Adam Grant
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[38:55]
Brooke Devard
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Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: Decoder Ring | "McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)"

Podcast: Slow Burn (from Slate Podcasts)
Episode: Decoder Ring | McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)
Date: August 12, 2026
Host: Willa Paskin

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Willa Paskin uses the curious cult artifact McGruff's Smart Kids Album—a cassette of 1980s anti-drug songs sung by McGruff the Crime Dog—as a jumping-off point to explore the story behind the iconic PSA character. Through interviews, archival audio, and first-person accounts, the episode examines how McGruff was created, the rise of public service announcements (PSAs) targeting children, and the strange afterlife and impact of these cultural campaigns.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. McGruff’s Ubiquity and Personal Memories

[00:00-04:29]
Daniel Danger, an interviewee, shares childhood memories of McGruff as a “weird, grumpy old cartoon dog” omnipresent in the early ’90s:

“He was just this weird presence, you know, this weird, grumpy old cartoon dog.” —Daniel Danger (01:11)
Danger describes McGruff puppet shows, advice about stranger danger, and drug PSAs being a routine part of school life:

“You’re gonna get kidnapped. Which is a dark thing to tell a fifth grader.” —Daniel Danger (02:09)
Adult Daniel finds McGruff again in the wild—this time as a thrift store cassette, and is bewildered by the quality and kitsch of the "Smart Kids Album":

“They're kind of catchy, they're weird. They sound like Steely Dan. Like, it doesn't make any sense.” —Daniel Danger (04:01)

2. Birth of McGruff & The ‘Take a Bite Out of Crime’ Campaign

[07:59-15:41]
McGruff debuts in 1980 as part of a $300,000 Department of Justice campaign to address rising crime rates. The Ad Council leads the project, aiming to make everyday citizens feel empowered to prevent neighborhood crime.
Ad exec Jack Kyle describes the flash of inspiration:

“I sat back, I went back to the strategy and we were asking the people actually to snip at crime. And at that point, sitting there…‘take a bite out of crime.’ Wow.” —Jack Kyle (10:53–11:42)
The internal agency scramble for a character design results in the detective bloodhound look that would become iconic:

“This hound dog with deep set eyes in a trench coat, hands in his pocket…he epitomizes the private eyes.” —Jack Kyle (12:09–13:31)
McGruff sounded like Columbo and, partly, like his creator Jack:

“You were creating a dog that had an amazing resemblance to two people. One was Columbo…and Jack [Kyle] was the one that we would know.” —Sherry Nemmers (14:20)

3. How PSAs Work (Or Don’t)

[15:41-19:14]
Professor Joseph Capella explains the mechanics: first, PSAs must gain exposure; then, attention; then—they must inspire actual behavior change.
McGruff’s campaign achieves huge exposure, with 50% of Americans seeing an ad and a million pamphlet requests:

“Within a year…the ads had $100 million worth of donated ad time, which is a lot, and 50% of Americans had seen one.” —Willa Paskin (16:37)
Doubts are raised by Michael Hobbs (Maintenance Phase podcast) about the real efficacy of PSAs:

“Oftentimes, the evidence that they use to show that it worked is things like, you know, 70% of respondents remember seeing the billboards. These things that are like input measures. That’s not...what we’re actually going for.” —Michael Hobbs (18:06)
McGruff’s popularity with children was actually unintended:

“Kids loved him.…We did not expect that kids were going to be the target, but they became the audience for us.” —Sherry Nemmers (20:09)

4. PSAs and the War on Drugs

[22:28-27:24]
PSAs evolve as the war on drugs intensifies under Ronald Reagan, assisted by Nancy Reagan’s “Just Say No” initiative.
The DARE program sends uniformed police officers into schools across America, with PSAs and pop culture (sitcoms, music videos, Mr. T) all amplifying the anti-drug message:

“Just say no.” —Multiple sources (26:12, 26:13, 36:14–38:02)
The anti-drug focus shifts more toward children, with widespread school programming and celebrity endorsements.

5. Christian Puppeteers and The Humanization of McGruff

[29:39-35:28]
The Smart Kids Album traces its origins to Puppet Productions—a Southern California Christian ministry-turned-puppetry business modeled after Sesame Street.
Mike Hawes and Rob Nelson had experience making educational puppet shows for churches:

“[Bill Hawes] started a company called Puppet Productions…which made colorful felt puppets like Mr. Quimper, a puppet Mike designed for a show he developed called Quimper's Corner.” —Willa Paskin (30:23)
The company is commissioned to make crime prevention puppet shows and later pitches a giant McGruff puppet and then mascots to law enforcement and NCPC, leading eventually to the McGruff anti-drug cassette.

6. McGruff Becomes a Music Star

[35:28-36:14]
The Smart Kids Album, originally only for law enforcement, expands into classrooms and households across America, thanks to an enthusiastic Puppet Productions founder who believes “every classroom in America needs a McGruff in it.”
The episode closes with the catchy yet surreal flavor of McGruff musical anti-drug messaging.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Daniel Danger revisiting McGruff as an adult:

“These songs are kind of banger.” (04:47)
On the creative scramble to design McGruff:

“We got a lot of dogs. There was a cute little dog named Spot, the Wonder Dog…another was Sarge, he was a German shepherd.” —(12:40–12:54)
Jack Kyle recalls the night of inspiration:

“I think I yelled it in the airport. Take a bite out of crime. Wow.” (11:42)
On the unintended young audience for McGruff:

“He was like a huggable authority figure…We did not expect that kids were going to be the target, but they became the audience for us.” —Sherry Nemmers (20:09–20:23)
Michael Hobbs on the limits of PSAs:

“I'm very PSA skeptical.” (17:34)
The war on drugs in pop culture:

“If someone offers you drugs, instead of saying something you really you don't mean, just say no.” —Willa Paskin (25:49)
Puppet Productions’ ambitions:

“Every classroom in America needs a McGruff in it.” —Bill Hawes, paraphrased by Rob Nelson (35:28–35:47)

Key Timestamps

00:00–04:29 — Daniel Danger’s McGruff memories and rediscovery
07:59–15:41 — The creation of McGruff and the "Take a Bite Out of Crime" ad campaign
16:17–19:14 — How public service announcements work (or don’t)
19:57–20:23 — McGruff accidentally becomes a kids’ icon
22:28–27:24 — War on Drugs, "Just Say No," and the shift to school PSAs
29:39–35:28 — The backstory of Puppet Productions and making the Smart Kids Album
35:28–36:14 — How the album ended up in classrooms nationwide
36:16–38:02 — Tease for part two: the afterlife of McGruff’s anti-drug music

Tone & Style

The episode mixes nostalgia, humor, skepticism, and social critique, pairing quirky childhood anecdotes (“dark thing to tell a fifth grader”) with deep dives into advertising history and public health research. Willa Paskin's narration is engaging and pacey, weaving interviews and archival audio into a lively, accessible tapestry.

Conclusion

Part 1 of Decoder Ring’s deep dive into McGruff the Crime Dog unpacks how a bizarre, catchy anti-drug cassette summed up a broader national project of crime and drug PSAs in the 1980s—and how a cartoon bloodhound became an unexpectedly beloved (and weirdly musical) cultural institution. In part two, the show promises to explore the consequences and legacy of unleashing a message (and an album) as sticky as “Just say no.”

Loading summary

Transcript191 lines

[00:00]
Willa Paskin
Hi, it's willa. Back in 2022, I became aware of a cult record from the 1980s. So incredible and so strange, so kitschy and yet well made that it routinely makes its way around the Internet. A blast of weirdness from the past. It's a set of songs ostensibly performed by an icon of public safety from the 1980s. And here it is. To have questions, it pulses with drop everything and figure out what, why and how the hell this thing is energy. And since dropping everything to figure interesting things out is just about the sworn duty of us here at Decoder Ring, that's what we did. We took these ridiculous songs as a starting point and soon found ourselves in much headier territory. Two episodes worth of territory, actually. So we'll be re airing both episodes, starting with the first one right now. Hope you enjoy. When Daniel Danger was growing up in the early 1990s, he had a number of run ins with this one particular dog.
[01:12]
Daniel Danger
It was just this weird presence, you know, this weird, grumpy old cartoon dog.
[01:16]
McGruff the Crime Dog
I'm McGruff the crime dog.
[01:19]
Willa Paskin
McGraw was a trench coat wearing bloodhound with a hang dog demeanor who dispensed advice about crime prevention, personal safety, gone. And drugs.
[01:28]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Oh, you don't owe me. See, it's my job to teach you to protect yourselves. Make it your job to learn.
[01:35]
Willa Paskin
He also had a catchphrase.
[01:36]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Take a bite out of crime.
[01:39]
Willa Paskin
He was a regular presence at Daniels, Massachusetts elementary School. He was on the outside of it.
[01:45]
Daniel Danger
There was like an event where you brought your bike to school and then they would put a big flag on it. And I remember McGruff being there in
[01:53]
Willa Paskin
person and he was on the inside
[01:54]
Daniel Danger
too with like, you know, wheel in the TV on a cart and, and put in a little VHS of McGruff telling you to avoid strangers and not get like touched by people or get into cars.
[02:07]
McGruff the Crime Dog
That's Jenny, but that's not Jenny's dad
[02:10]
Daniel Danger
basically telling you you're, you're gonna get kidnapped. Which is a dark thing to tell
[02:14]
McGruff the Crime Dog
a fifth grader if she gets into that car. That may be the last time you'll see Jenny.
[02:20]
Daniel Danger
We had the puppet.
[02:22]
Willa Paskin
This would have been a 2 foot tall, chocolatey brown hand puppet in plaid pants and a trench coat.
[02:28]
Daniel Danger
There was a cassette tape that the teacher put in and then they would mimic along with a puppet and they'd teach you like, you know, like, don't do drugs, don't bully, blah, blah, blah.
[02:36]
Rob Nelson
Hello, everybody. McGruff here. I just want to remind you that we all have a job to do. Take a bite out of crime. You can make your life a safer one.
[02:49]
Willa Paskin
After elementary school, Daniel's encounters with McGruff petered out.
[02:52]
Jack Kyle
Out.
[02:52]
Willa Paskin
He didn't think of him much until the mid-2000s when he and a friend were at a thrift store.
[02:57]
Daniel Danger
In the pile of just like, random stuff was a McGruff puppet and this cassette tape.
[03:03]
Willa Paskin
The cassette tape was called McGruff's Smart Kids Album. On the COVID a plush McGruff, like the one that had been in Daniel's classroom, leans against a brick wall, one arm slung over it and the other hand in a trench coat pocket.
[03:17]
Daniel Danger
And we had that, like, you know, like, just nostalgic of, like, McGruff. Remember McGruff? And so we bought this cassette and we, like, put it in the car and listen to it.
[03:31]
Rob Nelson
Never try marijuana. Don't try it at all.
[03:38]
McGruff the Crime Dog
It's a lie.
[03:40]
Rob Nelson
It's like beating your head on a
[03:42]
Jack Kyle
wall,
[03:45]
Rob Nelson
using cracking cocaine to get high. That's what you say you, but it's really insane. You could die. What are you thinking of?
[04:02]
Daniel Danger
Like, they're kind of catchy, they're weird. They sound like Steely Dan. Like, it doesn't make any sense.
[04:06]
Rob Nelson
Hey, open up your eyes, you've got to see Alcohol fills your world with lies. Listen to me, it's no good when you're drinking.
[04:29]
Michael Hobbs
When I first heard these songs, I felt genuinely overwhelmed, flummoxed that such a
[04:35]
Willa Paskin
tape could exist, that it could be real.
[04:38]
Michael Hobbs
And as the car filled up with an unholy combination of music, melody, character and message, Daniel was confounded too.
[04:48]
Daniel Danger
I want to know who actually wrote these. These songs are kind of banger.
[05:01]
Michael Hobbs
This is Decoder Ring. I'm Willa Paskin. McGraw the crime dog arrived on the scene at the dawn of the 1980s
[05:07]
Willa Paskin
just as a fire hose of public
[05:09]
Michael Hobbs
service announcements, particularly about drugs, was about to flood over the youth of America, inundating them in messages about what to do, think, fear and say no to. Over the next two episodes, we're going to be looking at PSAs, their efficacy and strange afterlife through the story of one trench coat wearing spokesdog and his bizarre yet catchy anti drug anthems. It's a tale that involves, in just this first episode, a so called war, the Department of Justice, a first lady on a mission, celebrity sing alongs, senate Sunday school puppets, and the messages people think will work on kids. So today on Decoder Ring, the first episode in a two parter about one very special message how did McGruff and his smart Kids album come to exist?
[06:19]
Mike Hawes
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[06:27]
Sherry Nemmers
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[06:28]
Mike Hawes
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[06:47]
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[08:00]
Willa Paskin
The first time the public met the crime dog, In February of 1980, he was letting himself into a stranger's house.
[08:06]
McGruff the Crime Dog
You know what I think? I think you forgot to lock your door.
[08:09]
Willa Paskin
He was so new that he didn't even have a name yet. He'd only become a gruff a few months later after a naming contest. Even so, he was already on the job, carrying a flashlight and imparting common sense advice about how to deter robberies.
[08:24]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Light up your doors. Lights make burglars nervous, and make your windows secure.
[08:31]
Willa Paskin
McGruff owes his existence to crime, which spiked over the course of the 1970s. By the end of the decade, the issue had become a motivating anxiety for voters, so the Department of Justice decided to put $300,000 towards a public service campaign addressing it. And they reached out to the Ad Council to get it made. The ad Council is a nonprofit arm of the advertising industry that gets blue chip ad agencies to do pro bono PSAs founded during World War II to help with the war effort and also brush up the industry's reputation. The ad Council is responsible for a number of very memorable campaigns, but maybe none more so than one of its first.
[09:15]
Mike Hawes
You have so many reasons to protect your forests. Remember, only you can prevent forest fires.
[09:22]
Willa Paskin
That's Smokey the bear. He began demonstrating that an animal enclosed could be an effective messenger back in 1944. But it would take the ad executive in charge of the new campaign a while to remember that.
[09:35]
Jack Kyle
They came to us in 1979 and asked us if we would do some advertising campaign that would help decrease crime in this country. Well, you know, that's a, a major challenge.
[09:49]
Willa Paskin
Jack Kyle was a creative director at Dancer Fitzgerald Sample, the ad agency tapped by the Ad Council to make the campaign. Kyle died in 2017. What you're hearing comes from an interview he did with Eric Greenberg.
[10:02]
Jack Kyle
We did a lot of research, a lot of focus groups. I even wrote in the back of a New York City police car.
[10:07]
Willa Paskin
The agency took away two major things from this research. The first was that the cops really wanted community help. And the second was that citizens felt like crime was too big, too insurmountable a problem to do anything about.
[10:22]
Jack Kyle
They came up with a strategy to try and convince people there were little things that they could do to help make their lives safer and help decrease crime, even if only in a neighborhood.
[10:33]
Willa Paskin
But even with a strategy, a clear idea of what the campaign should communicate, they didn't have a clear idea of what the ads should be. Just a very fast approaching deadline. Days before Jack had to pitch something. A cross country flight he was on made an emergency stopover in Kansas City.
[10:53]
Jack Kyle
So there we were in the middle of the Kansas city airport at 2 in the morning and I suddenly thought, let me just sit and think and think and think and doodle and see if I can create something. And I thought maybe we need a cartoon of stokey bear. Smokey Bear was very, maybe an animal, another animal would be good. And I thought, well have a lion and you know, a roar, roar of crime or an elephant stomp on crime. None of those are anything. So I sat back, I went back to the strategy and we were asking the people actually to snip at crime. And at that point, sitting there, the thing I said, snippet crime bite at Crime. And I suddenly, I rose right up in my chair and I think I yelled it in the airport. Take a bite out of crime. Wow.
[11:43]
Willa Paskin
The whole thing came to Jack all at once. The character would be a dog, he'd be animated, everything else would be real. In the TV ads, he'd walk into a crime in progress and talk directly to the audience. There was just one wrinkle in Jack's sketches. The dog looked like a manger, Snoopy. When he got back to the agency and pitched his team on the concept, they loved everything about it but the dog.
[12:10]
Jack Kyle
You gotta have somebody with authority. I said, all right, wise guys, we got 12 hours. I want to see some dogs.
[12:15]
Willa Paskin
Jack assigned five teams to come up with something better.
[12:19]
Sherry Nemmers
Well, the contest was fantastic. Within the agency, everybody was just competing with everybody at all hours.
[12:25]
Willa Paskin
Sherry Nemmers is an advertising executive who would go on to create the Charmin Bear. But back then she was a 21 year old copywriter.
[12:33]
Sherry Nemmers
I'm sorry to tell you, the other word they used at the time was gang bang. We had a gang bang on it.
[12:37]
Willa Paskin
When the teams came back, we got
[12:39]
Jack Kyle
a lot of dogs.
[12:40]
Sherry Nemmers
There was a cute little dog named Spot, the Wonder Dog.
[12:43]
Jack Kyle
They had a bulldog, J. Edgar dog, but would not go because part of this campaign was being funded by the Justice Department. And J. Edgar Hoover at that time was head of the Justice Department.
[12:55]
Sherry Nemmers
Another was Sarge, he was a German shepherd.
[12:59]
Jack Kyle
So suddenly in came a copywriter, Sherry Nimmers, and an art director, Ray Cravassi. And they just unveiled this dog, this hound dog with deep set eyes in a trench coat, hands in his pocket looking with a long nose. They said, this is the dog that we like because he epitomizes all of the private eyes, the investigators we see over time in the movies. And they're listened to and they're wise.
[13:31]
Sherry Nemmers
Jack, he just jumped out of his chair and he just. That's it. He said, that's it.
[13:39]
Willa Paskin
The first version of the crime dog smoked a cigar, which he would lose, and sounded an awful lot like Columbo, the homicide detective played by Peter Falk in the hit 1970s series of the same name.
[13:52]
McGruff the Crime Dog
One more thing, sir. I almost forgot how much time elapsed between the exchange of ship shots and you're getting to the phone booth to call the police.
[14:02]
Willa Paskin
In fact, after Jack and Sherry successfully pitched the crime dog to the ad Council and the Department of Justice, they batted around the idea of trying to get Peter Falk for the voice. But for Sher ners, who would be the point person on the campaign for over a decade, the crime dog had always sounded like someone else, too.
[14:21]
Sherry Nemmers
You were creating a dog that had an amazing resemblance to two people. One was Colombo and the other was Jack. And Columbo was the one everybody would know, but Jack was the one that we would know.
[14:35]
Willa Paskin
Before becoming an accomplished ad man, Kyle had done some radio voice work as a kid in Rochester, survived 50 bomber missions during World War II, and then tried to make it as an actor. In his spare time, he sang with a jazz band called the Smug Town Stompers. He was the perfect voice for McGruff.
[14:53]
McGruff the Crime Dog
All crime needs is a chance. Don't give it the chance.
[14:57]
Willa Paskin
McGruff and the take a Bite out of Crime campaign began to roll out in 1980, appearing on posters and billboards and in magazines, newspapers, and radio and TV spots. The first three TV ads, in keeping with the original strategy, are very concrete. Keep your lights on. Have someone pick up your mail. Enjoying the neighborhood watch?
[15:18]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Hey, McGruff here. See that guy? He's stealing that bike.
[15:23]
Willa Paskin
As McGruff is talking, the camera shows a young white man putting a bike in a van.
[15:28]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Now, see that lady?
[15:30]
Sherry Nemmers
Bike theft.
[15:30]
McGruff the Crime Dog
She's calling the cops.
[15:32]
Willa Paskin
It's an elderly white woman speaking into a giant walkie talkie.
[15:36]
McGruff the Crime Dog
This is Mimi Marth, part of the Eyes and Ears Patrol of Hartford, Connecticut.
[15:41]
Willa Paskin
Pretty quickly, the early ads seem to make an impact. But what does it mean for a PSA to make an impact? What does it mean for a PSA to work? So PSAs are a pretty straightforward proposition. They're announcements that serve the public and so are distributed for free in order to hopefully have some kind of positive effect. But before a PSA can have any effect at all, positive or otherwise, people have to see it. So that's step one.
[16:17]
Sherry Nemmers
You must get your message in front of the people that you want to try to influence.
[16:22]
Willa Paskin
Joseph Capella is an emeritus professor at the University of Pennsylvania who studies messaging in politics and public health.
[16:29]
Sherry Nemmers
If you don't get your message in front of them somehow, then you have no chance of having that message be effective. So that's always principle number one.
[16:38]
Willa Paskin
The term of art here is exposure. Your PSA has to get exposure. Most of them don't. McGruff, though, did. Within a year, the ads had $100 million worth of donated ad time, which is a lot, and 50% of Americans had seen one. But while exposure is a key first step for a successful PSA, it's not enough.
[17:00]
Sherry Nemmers
Principle number two is, will they pay attention to it.
[17:05]
Willa Paskin
50% of Americans seeing an ad sounds like a lot until you realize that just because people have seen something doesn't mean they attended to it at all. Which makes what McGruff did even more impressive. A million people took the time to write in and request the pamphlets he mentions. At the end of every ad, write
[17:24]
McGruff the Crime Dog
McGruff, Chicago, IL 60652. That's McGruff, Chicago, IL 60653. And you'll be helping me take a bite out of crime.
[17:34]
Willa Paskin
So that's step two. But getting people to write in for information, as impressive as that is, doesn't seem like all McGruff was trying to accomplish. He told people to do things, and that's step three. And it's also where the efficacy of PSAs starts to get really fuzzy. You're a PSA skeptical? I'm very PSA skeptical. Michael Hobbs is the co host of the podcast Maintenance Phase, which looks at the junk science behind health and wellness fad. Oftentimes, the evidence that they use to
[18:06]
Sherry Nemmers
show that it worked is things like,
[18:08]
Willa Paskin
you know, 70% of respondents remember seeing the billboards. These things that are like input measures. That's not, as a society, what we're actually going for.
[18:17]
Sherry Nemmers
The purpose of the billboards is to
[18:19]
Willa Paskin
get people like, not to smoke weed. Michael is getting at the fine distinction between steps two and three, between what is known as an awareness or exposure campaign and a behavior campaign. Some PSAs are just awareness campaigns. A good example is early HIV PSAs, which were built to make viewers aware that HIV was a disease and of how it could be transmitted. How much do you know about aids? Looks like we have a couple of things to talk about, huh? But other PSAs are behavior campaigns. They're raising awareness, but they are also either explicitly or implicitly promoting an action. Wear your seatbelt, stop littering, quit smoking. Or in McGruff's case, while you're gone,
[19:06]
McGruff the Crime Dog
have a neighbor keep an eye on your house, you know, pick up your mail, keep the place looking lived in, and use a timer to turn lights on and off.
[19:15]
Willa Paskin
But getting people to change their behavior is hard. And even if they do change their behavior, it can be hard to suss out exactly why. Was it the PSA or a whole constellation of messaging and media stories, education and interactions. It's easier and often faster to measure exposure. And so you hear about how much people saw something, how present a PSA was in their lives. And McGraw was absolutely a smash on this score. By 1984, he was on postage stamps and meeting with the President. He was widely credited with the rise of neighborhood watch programs, which he talked about with Dick Cavett.
[19:57]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Now, do I understand that neighborhood watch
[19:59]
David Farber
programs have reduced crime in some areas
[20:01]
Jack Kyle
as much as 50%?
[20:03]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Ah, that's right. But there's more to be done.
[20:05]
Willa Paskin
And he was thought to be fantastic with kids.
[20:09]
Sherry Nemmers
Kids loved him.
[20:10]
Willa Paskin
Sherry Nemmers, who helped create McGraw, you
[20:13]
Sherry Nemmers
know, he was like a huggable authority figure. So kids listen to him. And we didn't expect that. We did not expect that kids were going to be the target, but they became the audience for us.
[20:23]
Willa Paskin
And so as the decade progressed, McGraw would be put to work on what was considered to be the pressing issue facing the youth of America. Drugs.
[20:42]
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[21:19]
Adam Grant
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[21:57]
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[22:28]
Willa Paskin
In June of 1971, Richard Nixon announced the United States had a new and dangerous foe. America's public enemy number one in the
[22:38]
Rob Nelson
United States is drug abuse.
[22:42]
Willa Paskin
In order to fight and defeat this
[22:43]
David Farber
enemy, it is necessary to wage a
[22:46]
Willa Paskin
new all out offensive. The press began referring to this offensive as the war on drugs. But in this early phase it wasn't as aggressive as it would become. Nixon put most of the resources of the federal government in treatment and rehabilitation. David Farber is an historian at the University of Kansas and the editor of the War on Drugs A History. It wasn't like Nixon was saying, lock em all up, put em away forever. That would be our friend President Reagan who did that. In the late 1970s, as drug use and violent crime was spiking, Ronald Reagan swept into office promising the electorate a much more punitive approach. It's time for honest talk. All too often repeat offenders, habitual law breakers, career criminals, call them what you
[23:35]
David Farber
will, are robbing, raping and beating with
[23:40]
Willa Paskin
impunity and as I said, quite literally getting away with murder. At the federal, state and municipal levels. Incarceration rates for drug crimes began to rise dramatically, skyrocketing as the crack epidemic began. And they would remain at extraordinarily high levels for decades. Millions of Americans were sent to prison on nonviolent drug charges, a hugely disproportionate percentage of them men of color and black men in particular. And as prisons began to fill, the soft power side of the war on drugs was ramping up as well.
[24:14]
Sherry Nemmers
How many of you have heard about the drug problem in our schools?
[24:18]
Willa Paskin
That's first lady Nancy Reagan in a 1983 episode of the hit sitcom Different Strokes.
[24:24]
Sherry Nemmers
How do you feel about drugs?
[24:26]
Willa Paskin
Well, I think drugs are disgusting and
[24:28]
Paige from Giggly Squad
I'd never take them.
[24:29]
Sherry Nemmers
My name is Lisa and I'm a Republican. Thank you, Lisa. I have a hunch the Democrats are against drugs too.
[24:45]
Willa Paskin
Soon after taking office, Nancy Reagan selected teen drug abuse as her pet issue. It was, as you just heard of bipartisan concern. And drug use, particularly of marijuana, was on the rise with teenagers. And here it's a lot of white
[25:00]
Sherry Nemmers
teenagers, a lot of middle class teenagers, a lot of suburban teenagers.
[25:05]
Willa Paskin
They're getting stoned and maybe they're getting stoned a lot. So Nancy Reagan began to visit schools and rehab facilities crisscrossing the country to speak with children and educators, to go on morning talk shows trying to bring awareness to this cause. In October of 1983, she visited an advertising agency, Needham Harper and Steers, working on the issue. They'd been tapped by the ad Council to develop a new public service campaign to curtail child drug abuse. She approved of the message, so wholeheartedly she pledged to personally get the campaign $25 million worth of media commitments. The ads began to run in 1984.
[25:44]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Cocaine? No, thanks. Yo, my man, you want some nudes? No way.
[25:50]
Willa Paskin
If someone offers you drugs, instead of saying something you really you don't mean, just say no. And she did something else that put this particular saying over the top. She started using it herself.
[26:02]
Sherry Nemmers
Say yes to your life. And when it comes to drugs and alcohol, just say no.
[26:08]
McGruff the Crime Dog
And there's something catchy about it.
[26:09]
Jack Kyle
Let's.
[26:10]
Willa Paskin
Let's not kid ourselves. It's like a beautiful catchphrase.
[26:12]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no.
[26:13]
Willa Paskin
Hundreds of just say no clubs began to pop up in communities and schools across the country, which were also being visited by dare. DARE stands for Drug Abuse Resistance Education.
[26:26]
McGruff the Crime Dog
DARE to keep a kid off drugs.
[26:30]
Willa Paskin
It was created in 1983 when Los Angeles Police Department joined forces with its public schools to send uniformed cops into schools to speak about the dangers of drugs and crime. By the end of the decade, it was federally funded and in 75% of schools, spreading the gospel of just say no. With it, child drug abuse and prevention became the cause du jour. The issue with politicians, public figures, business leaders, law enforcement, educators, and celebrities eagerly speaking up to support it, Anti drug messaging flourished. This song and music video from 1985 featured Whitney Houston, Latoya Jackson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, David Hasselhoff, and the first lady herself. Celebrities did solo PSAs, too.
[27:24]
Mike Hawes
I just want to shake some sense into you kids that I use in drugs and think about using. So remember, don't or else.
[27:32]
Willa Paskin
That's Mr. T. And sitcoms like Punky Brewster spread the message, too.
[27:38]
Paige from Giggly Squad
Then you gonna party with us?
[27:41]
Mike Hawes
No.
[27:43]
Willa Paskin
In 1986, against the backdrop of the rising crack epidemic, Reagan signed the Anti Drug Abuse act. It earmarked 1.7 billion additional dollars for the War on Drugs and established new mandatory minimum prison sentences. Reagan also signed a proclamation declaring the first official Just say no to drugs Week. And it's in this environment that McGruff the crime dog decided to lend his voice to the cause, thanks in part to some Christian puppet masters on the West Coast.
[28:18]
Rob Nelson
Users are losers and losers are users. So don't use drugs. Don't use drugs. Nice going. Now, teacher, to your mom and dad and brothers and sisters and friends.
[28:31]
Paige from Giggly Squad
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[29:39]
Willa Paskin
McGruff's Smart Kids album, which we played at the top of this episode, was released in 1986, but its origins stretch back to November of 1969, when a new kind of kids television program premiered on pbs.
[29:52]
McGruff the Crime Dog
An educational One sunny day sweeping up clouds away,
[30:01]
Willa Paskin
Sesame street reimagined what children children's TV could be and what it could do. And it also made puppets like Oscar the Grouch, Bert and Ernie, and Kermit the Frog seem like a hip and effective way to reach kids.
[30:14]
David Farber
We saw what Jim Henson was doing. We thought, well, let's just design some puppets for churches. That's kind of how the company began.
[30:23]
Willa Paskin
That's Mike Hawes. In the early 1970s, his father, Bill Hawes, a music and education minister in Southern California, founded a company called Puppet Productions. Bill died in 2020, but for years he oversaw the company, which made colorful felt puppets like Mr. Quimper, a puppet Mike designed for a show he developed called Quimper's Corner.
[30:47]
Mike Hawes
Evening ladies. Evening gents. Welcome to the show. I'd like to introduce myself named Quipper, don't you know.
[30:53]
David Farber
He worked in a soda shop and he was also a sunny school teacher. And so the kids would come in and he would order ice cream and shake and he they would have issues that would come up in life.
[31:05]
Mike Hawes
I work inside my soda shop from 9 to 5 each day. I talk with all my little friends when they come in from play.
[31:11]
David Farber
Then he would kind of give him kind of a Bible lesson on, you know, how to deal with that issue.
[31:22]
Jack Kyle
Today.
[31:25]
Willa Paskin
Characters like Mr. Quimper encouraged good Christian values, but they were also the tip of the spear for an elaborate business that involved the company leading seminars in churches where they would Train youth group members in puppetry so that those groups could then buy puppets and shows like Quimper's Corner from the company. The shows, which included music, skits and dialogue, were all made and recorded at puppet headquarters and then sent out to customers.
[31:54]
David Farber
It was a cassette tape with the music and character voices and all that pre done and then they could just play the tape and lip sync to the audio.
[32:05]
Willa Paskin
Mike wrote and produced almost all of the music for these cassettes. Handling a lot of the lyrics was a man named Rob Nelson, who'd started with the company as a puppeteer on a show called Alcohol on Trial.
[32:17]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
It was a pre recorded thing which featured a character named Zachary Daiquiri.
[32:21]
Willa Paskin
Zachary Daiquiri, you are charged with neglect and attempted murder.
[32:26]
Mike Hawes
Of who?
[32:27]
Willa Paskin
Of yourself. Zachary Daiquiri is a lumberjack looking puppet with a bushy red mustache and flannel shirt.
[32:34]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
Four of his body parts told him what happened when he over consumed alcohol.
[32:40]
Willa Paskin
My job is to pump Zach's blood to all the parts of his body. Now when he drinks, the alcohol slows me down.
[32:48]
Jack Kyle
I can't pump as much blood.
[32:50]
Willa Paskin
Zach could have a heart attack. In fact, I could die.
[32:56]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
And this was for kids. So we'd go to a school and do this show to educate the kids about the effects of alcohol on the human body.
[33:03]
Willa Paskin
Rob turned out to be such a natural at puppeteering that he was promoted and then promoted again as the business got bigger and bigger.
[33:11]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
It went crazy. In the heyday, let's say the early 80s, we were doing maybe 100,000 puppets a year. We had 40 people working in the factory making puppets.
[33:24]
Willa Paskin
Most of their output continued to be Christian themed and educational. But they would also get approached about commissions. And one day they heard from a sheriff's deputy in San Diego.
[33:33]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
She was a community officer and she wanted to do crime prevention as part of her presentation. And she wanted to do a puppet show. And so we said, well, okay, let's see what we can do with that.
[33:46]
Willa Paskin
So they created a short original show based on factual information the sheriff supplied them. It contained a couple of songs and one or two puppets so the sheriff could do the whole thing herself. When they were done, they started thinking about who else the program might appeal to. They were a scrappy small business, always looking for more opportunities. Maybe they could repackage a crime prevention puppet show and sell it to law enforcement. Or hey, maybe they could repackage a crime prevention puppet show and sell it to the crime prevention dog.
[34:19]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
What about this McGruff character? That's a Natural fit. Let's talk to them.
[34:25]
Willa Paskin
Them was the National Crime Prevention Council, the nonprofit that houses McGruff but still worked with the Department of Justice and the AD Council Console. The first thing they successfully pitched was a life size McGruff puppet that Mike built.
[34:38]
David Farber
The puppet would be able to sit up in a police car on the passenger side. So, you know, they would have these McGruff puppets riding around in these cop cars.
[34:49]
Willa Paskin
Then they started making some full mascot suits for law enforcement.
[34:53]
David Farber
We came up with some animatronics in it where the. The eyes would blink, the mouth would open and close, but electronically.
[35:02]
Willa Paskin
Finally, they got permission to record some songs in the voice of McGruff. Or maybe permission is the wrong word.
[35:08]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
The NCPC said this. We will give you a license to use the character, and you will give us a percentage of whatever money you make on it.
[35:17]
Willa Paskin
So they started doing what they had been doing for years. Make a puppet, record a show for that puppet, put that show on a cassette, and then sell both in this case to law enforcement.
[35:29]
Rob Nelson (Puppeteer)
So initially it was just for cops. That's all that they would allow. Then Bill, who was always the let's push this, you know, really farther than we actually can kind of guy, said, you know what? Every classroom in America needs a McGruff in it.
[35:47]
Willa Paskin
And that's how McGruff and his songs began to make their way into Daniel Danger's element. Elementary school and car cassette player Mama.
[35:56]
Rob Nelson
Maybe other kids are doing drugs and saying that you really ought to come along.
[36:04]
Willa Paskin
Next week, we take on the creation of the Smart Kids album and consider the unintended consequences of unleashing something like McGruff and his songs onto the world.
[36:15]
Rob Nelson
Just say no.
[36:17]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no.
[36:19]
Willa Paskin
It's all about the sticky, potent afterlife of even the wackest messages.
[36:25]
Daniel Danger
I just like, I don't know why I have all this weird crime dog stuff, but like, yeah, I have the puppet.
[36:33]
Willa Paskin
Till then. This is Dakota Ring. I'm Willa Paskin. As ever, please consider signing up for Decoder Ring. Plus, you get to skip all the ads and hear every episode of Decoder Ring's back where I personally call one of you up our listeners and answer your cultural mystery. You'll also be supporting all of the work we do. You can join by going to the Decoder Ring show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or visiting slate.com decoder ringplus. This episode was written by me and produced by me and Katie Shepard. We had production help from Sam Kim, editing by Jamie York and Derek John. Decoder Ring is also produced by Max Friedman and Evan Chung. Our supervising producer, Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. Phoebe Mulder is our intern. Thank you to Wendy Melillo, Dan McQuaid, Dale Mantley, Larissa Zargaris, Daisy Rosario, Dave Bledsoe, Larry Johnson, Dwayne Poole, Ari Merkin, Charles and Karen Rosen, and Eric Greenberg. I'd also like to mention a book that was very helpful in working on this piece, Wendy Melillo's How McGruff and the Crying Indian Changed America, A History of Iconic Ad Council Campaigns. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, please email us@decoder ringslate.com or you can leave us a message at 347-460-7281. We love hearing from you guys and we'll see you in two weeks for part two.
[38:02]
McGruff the Crime Dog
Just say no Just say no Just say no Just say no.
[38:25]
Adam Grant
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[38:55]
Brooke Devard
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Podcast Summary: Decoder Ring | "McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. McGruff’s Ubiquity and Personal Memories

2. Birth of McGruff & The ‘Take a Bite Out of Crime’ Campaign

3. How PSAs Work (Or Don’t)

4. PSAs and the War on Drugs

5. Christian Puppeteers and The Humanization of McGruff

6. McGruff Becomes a Music Star

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Tone & Style

Conclusion

Podcast Summary: Decoder Ring | "McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. McGruff’s Ubiquity and Personal Memories

2. Birth of McGruff & The ‘Take a Bite Out of Crime’ Campaign

3. How PSAs Work (Or Don’t)

4. PSAs and the War on Drugs

5. Christian Puppeteers and The Humanization of McGruff

6. McGruff Becomes a Music Star

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Key Timestamps

Tone & Style

Conclusion

Podcast Summary: Decoder Ring | "McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)"

Podcast Summary: Decoder Ring | "McGruff Takes a Bite Out of Crime, Part 1 (Encore)"