Extra: More on the Road to Iraq

Summary

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Slow Burn: Extra – More on the Road to Iraq

Podcast: Slow Burn (Slate Podcasts)
Episode Date: May 19, 2021
Host: Noreen Malone
Guests: Ahmed Chalabi’s friend, Ann Curry, Slate staff/bloggers

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode of Slow Burn supplements the main series’ "Road to the Iraq War" season, offering additional anecdotes, first-person perspectives, and behind-the-scenes reflections from journalists and Slate staffers who experienced the era. Host Noreen Malone presents highlights from subscribers-only Slate Plus content, giving listeners deeper personal and historical context around key figures (like Ahmed Chalabi), the post-9/11 American climate, the media’s internal reactions, and the charged online discourse as the Iraq War approached.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Personal Side of Ahmed Chalabi

[02:01 – 04:13]

• Unique Social Habits:

  • Friends recall that meetings with Chalabi almost always revolved around shared meals in diverse global settings—London sushi bars, New York Chinatown, Vietnamese joints, and high-end restaurants.

  • Chalabi was described as a gourmand who appreciated both "back street hole in the wall" places and upscale establishments, fully embodying a "global elite" palate.

    “He definitely valued interesting food experiences and his taste varied...he was a gourmand. He definitely was global elite in terms of his taste, but he did appreciate good food of any sort.”
    —Ahmed Chalabi’s friend [02:31]

• Personal Quirks:

  • Later in life, Chalabi adopted a strict carb-free (Atkins) diet, avoiding bread and rice, except for ice cream—a humorous contradiction.

    “He always made an exception for ice cream. For some reason he thought ice cream was okay in this rigid Atkins format.”
    —Ahmed Chalabi’s friend [03:35]

• Memorable Anecdote:

  • Chalabi introduced his friend to sushi for the first time in London in the mid-1990s, a time when sushi was still unfamiliar to many in Western cities.

2. The Post-9/11 Fear and the Anthrax Attacks

[04:13 – 07:53]

• Ann Curry Reflects:

  • Ann Curry, then at NBC, shares firsthand how the anthrax letters in October 2001 created panic in newsrooms shortly after 9/11.

  • NBC employees were advised to take Cipro as a precaution, creating visible anxiety among staff. Curry describes a heightened sense of vulnerability and being “under siege,” even as she herself tried to remain calm.

    “I did notice terror in the eyes of some of my colleagues...After the anthrax scare, [one colleague] was just terrorized.”
    —Ann Curry [05:35]

  • There’s a memorable account of a friend’s panic—mistaking beet-colored urine for anthrax symptoms after dining with Curry.

    “One of my girlfriends who came to the dinner was so nervous that she rushed herself to the emergency room the next morning...she’d eaten beets.”
    —Ann Curry [06:40]

  • Curry draws a distinction between the lingering dread of 9/11 and the more localized terror of the anthrax scare:

    “The overwhelming cause of fear was 9/11. And the anthrax scare didn’t really hold a candle to the fear that 9/11 had created.”
    —Ann Curry [07:47]

3. Slate’s Role and the Early Blogosphere Around the Iraq War

[07:53 – 12:44]

• The Pressure to Have an Opinion:

  • Slate bloggers recall the very active, performative culture of early online journalism, where writers felt compelled to take a public stance on major events like the Iraq War, partly for readership and digital attention.

    “I was desperately looking for a reason to support the war...I guess I instinctively reacted against leftwing opposition to the war.”
    —Slate Blogger 1 [08:48]

  • Era characterized by “freedom to say things, to try them out,” acknowledging how many now-controversial takes were simply part of a chaotic, rapid publishing cycle:

    “People were just flying kites out there and it might be, you know, the war is going to be over by Thanksgiving. But I remember...the freedom to say things, to try them out. And there's a lot of things that I wrote...that were just wrong.”
    —Will, Slate Blogger [10:17]

• Conformity vs. Dissent:

  • Despite the ethos of open debate, by the time of the Iraq invasion, a conformist pressure in favor of war emerged. Opposing the war became socially isolated, even in digital spaces that had championed diverse ideas.

    “By the time the Iraq war was approaching, a kind of conformist mindset had set in...the easy thing to do was to support the war. And that, to me, remains one of the great mysteries.”
    —Slate Blogger 2 [11:30]

• Reflections on Media Responsibility:

  • The bloggers recall internal skepticism (such as Jack Shaefer’s doubts post–Colin Powell’s UN speech), but also the power of misinformation and the groupthink that led many to support the war.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Attribution | |-----------|-------|-------------| | 02:31 | “He definitely valued interesting food experiences and his taste varied...gourmand. He definitely was global elite...but he did appreciate good food of any sort.” | Ahmed Chalabi’s friend | | 03:35 | “He always made an exception for ice cream...in this rigid Atkins format.” | Ahmed Chalabi’s friend | | 05:35 | “I did notice terror in the eyes of some of my colleagues...After the anthrax scare, [one colleague] was just terrorized.” | Ann Curry | | 06:40 | “One of my girlfriends who came to the dinner was so nervous that she rushed herself to the emergency room the next morning...she’d eaten beets.” | Ann Curry | | 07:47 | “The overwhelming cause of fear was 9/11. And the anthrax scare didn’t really hold a candle...” | Ann Curry | | 08:48 | “I was desperately looking for a reason to support the war...instinctively reacted against leftwing opposition.” | Slate Blogger 1 | | 10:17 | “People were just flying kites out there...there's a lot of things that I wrote in the era of blogs that were just wrong.” | Will, Slate Blogger | | 11:30 | “By the time the Iraq war was approaching, a kind of conformist mindset had set in...the easy thing to do was to support the war.” | Slate Blogger 2 |

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Ahmed Chalabi Anecdotes: 02:01–04:13
• Ann Curry on Anthrax & 9/11: 04:13–07:53
• Slate & Media Bloggers Reflect on War Discourse: 07:53–12:44

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a conversational, reflective style, blending personal anecdotes with candid admissions about uncertainty, fear, and the complexities of hindsight.

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Final Thoughts

This bonus Slow Burn episode provides a rare, personal look at the events and mindsets that shaped media and public opinion before the Iraq War—shedding light on how history was experienced by those who helped write its first drafts. The inclusion of offbeat human details (Chalabi’s ice cream exception, newsroom panic over anthrax) alongside media introspection offers a multidimensional view that adds nuance to our understanding of this pivotal period.

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Transcript

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[Noreen]

Hey there, it's Noreen. This week we're taking a short break from Slow Burn to tell you about Slate plus and how its members support the work we do here. There's a lot that goes behind the scenes of making a narrative podcast like Slow Burn. I first started working on this season last spring, and since then the producers and I have been reading tons of history books, digging through various archives, conducting dozens of interviews, and the support we get from Slate plus is what allows us the time and the resources to dive deep into those stories. All that knowledge we've accumulated hopefully comes through in the show, but there is actually so much more we can't fit into the tight eight episode structure, and there is so much good tape that we can't include. So that's why we make our Slate plus bonus episodes each season so we can give listeners a peek into our decision making and play some audio clips and extended interviews that help flesh out more of the story. I think these bonus episodes offer a broader view of everything we've worked on this season, and they give a better understanding of the history we're covering. So today I'm going to give you a preview of what you've been missing out on. In our first bonus episode this season, we discussed the more personal side of Ahmed Chalabi. So in the story of the Iraq war, there's a lot of debate about how much influence Chalabi had on the US's decision to invade, and that's important. But as I was talking to people who knew Chalabi, I heard lots of personal stories and intimate tidbits about him that I found fascinating. So we compiled a few clips for the bonus episode, and here's one anecdote I really loved.

[Ahmed Chalabi's Friend]

So my friendship with Ahmet always involved food because I've lived in different parts of the world. I lived in Turkey, and later on New York and Washington, and then back in and then in Ankara. Over the years I would from time to time meet with him and it would be over different restaurants. Usually he had a big entourage. He definitely valued interesting food experiences and his taste varied. It could be a back street hole in the wall, someplace in Chinatown, a Vietnamese restaurant. I remember we went, he loved it. Or it could be more of a high end place. He was gourmand. He definitely was global elite in terms of his taste, but he did appreciate good food of any sort. The one thing was later in life, particularly I would say after he moved to Iraq after the war, he started really following a carb free diet, a version of Atkinson. This may have started right before the war, but he would just not eat bread or rice. He lost some weight, but the interesting thing was he always made an exception for ice cream. For some reason he thought ice cream was okay in this rigid Atkins format. The first time I had sushi in my life ever was in London. I was a young correspondent fresh out of college. And I was trying to have a meeting with Ahmed to learn about what's happening in Iraqi opposition. It was very interesting discussion. But he suggested going to this sushi place. And at the time, I'm Talking about the 90s, early mid-90s, at the time you didn't have a sushi joint at every block in western cities. You know, sushi was still less popular than it is now. You didn't have sushi takeout places and sushi in supermarkets. So I, I remember the first time I tasted sushi was in this restaurant in London. And it was really difficult for me to imagine eating raw fish, something I do all the time now.

[Noreen]

Of course, our second episode covered 911 and the anthrax attacks that fueled a lot of fear in the U.S. ann Curry was covering the terror attacks for NBC, but that was also a place that was targeted by an anthrax letter. So I wanted to get her perspective about that time and she got really personal with us. One story that fall that I'm very interested in, that I feel like really played a pivotal role that people have forgotten a little bit is the anthrax attacks. Do you remember the reports of the first cases that fall?

[Ann Curry]

Oh, I remember reporting about them on air, yes. You know, remember that this was in early October, very soon after, just a few weeks after 9 11, early October, a man died of anthrax poisoning. And the FBI launched an investigation. And it was after that that we learned that NBC News had received letters.

[Noreen]

And how did that feel? Were you afraid?

[Ann Curry]

Well, I don't give easily to fear. But the NBC News leadership called us together and in that meeting it was suggested that we take Cipro as a precaution. And I did notice terror in the eyes of some of my colleagues. I had a photograph at that point in my office of firefighters at ground zero. And one of my colleagues begged me to take it down because she said she couldn't bear to look at it. After the anthrax scare, she was just terrorized. And so I flipped the image over. There were a lot of people who were quite unnerved by the anthrax letters. And then we found out that there was evidence that these anthrax letters had been received at ABC and then at cbs. And so a lot of people were quite concerned about what that meant. And it was all happening so fast. There was a feeling that we were just scrambling to keep up with all of these developments, and there was a feeling of being under siege, no question. And because no one could tell us who had sent the letters or why.

[Noreen]

Right. And you were reporting on a story that was happening to you, which must have been strange.

[Ann Curry]

Well, we always never, I think in general, any, you know, true journalist doesn't want to be in a story. Right. You don't want to be the story. I am not easily given to fear, but, you know, after assessing the data and, you know, I never came in contact with a letter. I did not believe that I was contaminated, but nevertheless, I took Cipro and I decided to be careful because I wanted to protect my family. But I was so unconcerned that I actually went out to a planned dinner with some girlfriends soon after that NBC News meeting informing us about the letters. And one of my girlfriends who came to the dinner was so nervous that she rushed herself to the emergency room the next morning, only to discover that the reason she saw red when she went to the bathroom was because she'd eaten beets. I mean, it was unnerving for people. Right. It was unnerving for people who were. Who were around me, you know, and.

[Noreen]

She thought she could have gotten it from contact with you. Me.

[Ann Curry]

Exactly. So there was a sense of terror that was certainly happening in New York. But I think that it's fair to say that this was really concentrated in very specific areas. The overwhelming cause of fear was 9 11. And the anthrax scare didn't really hold a candle to the fear that 911 had created.

[Noreen]

We couldn't cover the lead up to the Iraq war and not touch on Slate's own history. Slate at the time was relatively small but influential, and it played an important part in the rise of online argumentation. Lots of people wrote in favor of the war on our site. So I wanted to hear from some of the Slatesters who were there at the time about what the atmosphere was like. Okay, so what was it about the blogosphere at that time where everyone had to be like, I'm staking out a position, I'm arguing with, you know, little green footballs or whatever about his position? Like, can you describe to me the mindset where it felt like it was very important what the cast files take was like? What was it like to be in the blog sphere then?

[Slate Blogger 1]

Well, I wasn't so much in pitch. I was just looking for something interesting to write about that would satisfy my three time a day blog quota, which the editors were unaware of. But I had a massive debt of blogs that I had due and I was desperately looking for a reason to support the war. That was sort of where my. Why sort of where my brand political branding position was. I guess I instinctively reacted against left wing opposition to the war. And I was also heavily influenced by left wing proponents of the war, especially Josh Marshall, who had, in the buildup to the war had been making the case that Pollack made, which is Saddam has nuclear weapons and he's a threat. So I was trying to sort of milk that vein. But ultimately I couldn't do it. I didn't really need to have feuds with people. I wound up having feuds with people. But this was the great era of blogging where all you had to do was put Ann Coulter's name in the title and you got a hundred thousand hits because the search engines would do the work for you. You didn't have to get links from other people. So I was sitting pretty.

[Noreen]

Okay, Will, what about you? Did you feel like you needed to have a take one way or the other on the war? What were you blogging during that time?

[Will]

I ended up just blogging the war itself. We started a whole blog about it. And to me, I see all the blogging stuff in the context of, I mean, we're sort of in an era of social media now and it's an era of cross checking and conformity. And blogging was an era, as I recall it, where people, you said what you thought and sometimes you were just wrong. So people were just flying kites out there and it might be, you know, the war is going to be over by Thanksgiving. But I remember, remember just like the freedom to say things, to try them out. And there's a lot of things that I wrote in the era of blogs that were just wrong. But it was useful in a way because people floated ideas, and a lot of them were bad, but a lot of them were really good and turned out to be true. But I definitely said. I remember blogging about the Afghan war, and I was surprised by how well the invasion of Afghanistan went. And. And I think that probably influenced some of how I thought about Iraq. And so that kind of tacking and then tacking against yourself and realizing that something that applied in one situation didn't apply in the other or didn't apply over the long term was just normal to me in the era of logging. Now we live in an era when if you made a mistake, particularly one of this magnitude, that's sort of immortalized and it's. It's. All of the time has been compressed, and that's who you were.

[Noreen]

Mm.

[Slate Blogger 2]

But, Will, don't you think, notwithstanding the sense of freedom of bloggers, that by the time the Iraq war was approaching, a kind of conformist mindset had set in? I think, you know, it's important to remember there was overwhelming support for the war by the time it started, and to oppose it was a lonely feeling. And what Mickey was talking about, I think, you know, the idea that you'd rather not make a lot of enemies at some point, that did become a reason for some people to support the war. I don't mean they necessarily consciously articulated it that way, but after a certain point, the easy thing to do was to support the war. And that, to me, remains one of the great mysteries. All the more so because we were in this technological era where supposedly a thousand flowers would bloom.

[Will]

Yeah. Well, I do think Bob pressure or the climate played a role. My recollection is that it was a little more diverse than that. And I have a very clear memory of Jack Schaefer, who was at Slate at that and was extremely skeptical of the government. Sitting down in my office and talking about this is right after Colin Powell had done the presentation about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be false. But Jack was very impressed by that. And so I think there were a lot of people who believed that this was true, irrespective of pressure, and then later realized it wasn't.

[Noreen]

To listen to these interviews in full and hear more about the making of this season, you'll need to sign up for Slate plus. Again. Slate plus is what allows us to keep making Slow Burn and all of our other podcasts at Slate, so I hope you can support us as a member. You'll get to hear all of the bonus episodes for the rest of the season. And you'll also get the version of the show without any ads. Plus, you'll get unlimited reading on slate.com it's also just a dollar for your first month, so sign up [e-mail] slowburn that's slate.com slow burn. And next week on Slow Burn, we are back to our regularly scheduled programming, and we will be taking a close look at the congressional vote to authorize the war in Iraq and all of the politics and pressure that went into that. So thanks for listening and see you next week.