Slow Burn: The Clinton Impeachment | Secret Tracks

Podcast: Slow Burn
Host: Leon Neyfakh (Slate Podcasts)
Date: October 3, 2018

Episode Overview

Theme:
This special episode, "Secret Tracks," offers listeners a curated selection of revealing interview excerpts that could not fit into previous episodes of Slow Burn Season Two, focused on the Clinton impeachment. Host Leon Neyfakh guides listeners through bonus behind-the-scenes moments and stories from key figures caught up in the impeachment saga, examining how the event shaped public perception, legal precedent, and personal lives. The episode also makes connections to the present era, notably the #MeToo movement and Kavanaugh hearings, and reflects on how the cultural and political response to the Clinton affair still reverberates.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Prom Night" Operation and Ken Starr's Perspective

• Background:
  The independent counsel office’s January 16, 1998, confrontation with Monica Lewinsky was internally called "Prom Night."
• Ken Starr Interview:
  Starr describes the name as a product of "bantering and reflecting," not his personal creation. He casts the event as an invitation to Lewinsky to join their "truth seeking party," downplaying the operation's darker undertones.
  • Quote:

    "It has become, to my colleagues and comrades forever, known as by that name. But it could have been a very happy event. And it didn't turn out to be so happy, given the fact that she just said, no, I'm not going to make the deal, and the rest of the story had to unfold."
    — Ken Starr [00:31]

• Cultural Parallels:
  Neyfakh draws a line to the Brett Kavanaugh hearings, noting Kavanaugh's past work for Starr and the adolescent but sinister undertones of language like "Prom Night."
  • Quote:

    "A truth seeking party. That's what prom night meant. Seems like it probably meant something else."
    — Leon Neyfakh [01:20]

2. Clinton v. Jones and Walter Dellinger’s Unfiltered Reflections

• Legal Position:
  Dellinger, who argued the government's case before the Supreme Court, recalls the night before the argument, when President Clinton personally called with amateur legal advice, underscoring both Clinton’s legal curiosity and the distractions Presidents face from personal litigation.
  • Quote:

    "My client is the United States of America... The President said, I found a case... it was something like a case from Oklahoma in 1912... But I did not think the Supreme Court was going to think it ought to be having to decide this case based on what some state court had decided..."
    — Walter Dellinger [05:44]

• Revealing Story:
  Dellinger wishes he could have told the Supreme Court how presidential attention is devoured by these distractions, humorously referencing his late-night call with Clinton as the kind of thing that proves the point.
  • Quote:

    "Do you know what the President, United States was doing at 1am this morning? I think it would have proven the case that for any President... it can be all consuming and distracting when you're sued personally."
    — Walter Dellinger [08:10]

3. Dick Morris: Clinton’s Strategist on Power, Promiscuity, and Risk

• Political Strategy:
  Morris, a key Clinton advisor, recounts how Clinton ignored advice to focus on minor but believable achievements, instead stubbornly touting major successes that voters found unconvincing.
  • Quote:

    "Nobody will believe you when you say it. It'll be like ducks quacking. They won't hear it."
    — Dick Morris [09:01]

• Clinton’s Personality:
  Explains Clinton as a "classical narcissist" needing external validation, which Morris believes drove both his politics and personal behavior.
  • Quote:

    "He's like a headlight reflector on the highway. You shine your views, your emotions, he picks them up and reflects them back to you. But when the car passes, you look back and it's just a cold lump of metal... And so you look for it in a girl's eyes."
    — Dick Morris [13:00]

• Risk and Repetition:
  Morris asserts Clinton was able to take enormous risks (such as the Lewinsky affair during the Paula Jones lawsuit) because enablers—led by Hillary—ensured he never faced real consequences.
  • Quote:

    "Why did he risk Monica Lewinsky? Because he got away with Jennifer Flowers."
    — Dick Morris [14:13]

• Aftermath:
  Morris says the revelations were not personally shocking, attributing public support for Clinton to economic performance rather than morality.
  • Quote:

    "Nobody voted for Bill Clinton because he was moral. They voted for him to fix the economy, and he did."
    — Dick Morris [15:32]

4. Dylan Teachout: Young Staffer’s Conflicted Pride and Shame

• Mixed Reactions:
  Teachout describes feeling pride for her work in the Office of Independent Counsel, but also shame and conflict after reading scathing critiques (e.g., Adam Gopnik in The New Yorker).
  • Quote:

    "Just a strong memory I have... the liberal public response, in a nutshell, was kind of embodied in that piece... it was, like, deeply problematic to publish for a lot of reasons."
    — Dylan Teachout [17:03]

• Impact of #MeToo:
  The movement led Teachout to reconsider her views, recognizing that detailed documentation—however uncomfortable—is sometimes necessary for women to be believed.
  • Quote:

    "When you don't back up some claims by women with a lot of details, then people really want to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who's being accused, who denies doing the thing. And so I think that's played out with Bill Cosby and others. It's like you have to just bury people in the details, in these really uncomfortable details..."
    — Dylan Teachout [18:45]

5. Linda Tripp: The Price of Going Public

• Post-Scandal Fallout:
  Tripp describes the personal cost to her and her family after her role in the scandal became public, including intense public shaming and media vilification.
  • Quote:

    "Watching my family have to endure all of the hate and the venom and the constant scrutiny by the media. Just private life ceased to exist. That was very difficult."
    — Linda Tripp [20:57]

• Portrayal in the Media:
  Tripp discusses feeling villainized and her inability to fight the collective narrative established by the White House, media, and entertainment industry.
  • Quote:

    "Bear in mind that during that time, there was not a single entity that didn't support him... the entertainment industry, the media complex and the White House all said this was between a man and his wife. It's none of her business. She's the evil one. He's the victim of this evil one. And that was the end of it."
    — Linda Tripp [22:00]

• Motivation Clarified:
  Tripp insists her actions weren’t political or self-serving but driven by duty and concern for the broader implications of Clinton's behavior.
  • Quote:

    "What I did do was make a conscious choice to say, this is unacceptable... for anyone, let alone the leader of the free world in the Oval Office with what amounted to someone a little less than a full, fully capable of consent adult."
    — Linda Tripp [25:10]

• Reflections on #MeToo:
  Citing her granddaughters, Tripp connects her role to current cultural reckonings, wishing for greater accountability in the past.
  • Quote:

    "Had there been real accountability and censure for what he did... I think we'd be in a different place today. I think MeToo would have been history, and we would have been so much further along..."
    — Linda Tripp [27:19]

Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• Ken Starr on "Prom Night":

  "Welcome to the truth seeking party. So we're trying to get to the bottom of this." [01:08]

• Walter Dellinger’s late-night advice from Clinton:

  "I'm talking to the President. He's been researching state court cases." [07:10]

• Dick Morris on Clinton’s risky behavior:

  "Why did he risk Monica Lewinsky? Because he got away with Jennifer Flowers." [14:13]

• Dylan Teachout on learning from #MeToo:

  "You have to just bury people in the details, in these really uncomfortable details that they don't want to know in order to have the women be believed." [18:45]

• Linda Tripp on public perception:

  "I tried to make people understand that I was just a civil servant doing my job in a set of circumstances that compelled me to come forward." [23:57]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] – Ken Starr contextualizes "Prom Night."
• [05:12] – Walter Dellinger recounts Clinton’s midnight phone call.
• [09:01] – Dick Morris discusses Clinton ignoring political advice.
• [13:00] – Morris details the psychology behind Clinton’s behavior.
• [16:28] – Dylan Teachout reflects on reactions to the Starr report.
• [18:45] – Teachout analyzes her experience through the lens of #MeToo.
• [20:57] – Linda Tripp discusses personal aftermath and media vilification.
• [25:10] – Tripp clarifies motivations and hopes for cultural change.

Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, intimate, and occasionally confessional. Speakers frequently reflect on hindsight, emotions, and the pressures—personal, professional, and societal—surrounding them during the impeachment. Neyfakh maintains a journalist’s curiosity and empathy, guiding the narrative with insightful prompts.

Summary

This bonus “Secret Tracks” episode intricately peels back the layers of the Clinton impeachment, exposing human vulnerabilities, unresolved tensions, and the enduring complexity of public scandal. Through interviews with Ken Starr, Walter Dellinger, Dick Morris, Dylan Teachout, and Linda Tripp, listeners receive nuanced insight into not only the historical event but its lingering relevance—particularly in conversations about power, justice, gender, and political media.