SNAFU with Ed Helms
Episode S4E21: Chris Winterbauer & Lizzie Bassett - Starfish Prime
February 25, 2026

Episode Overview

This engaging episode of SNAFU dives into "Starfish Prime," the infamous 1962 Cold War-era nuclear test in space. Host Ed Helms is joined by Chris Winterbauer and Lizzie Bassett, the dynamic hosts of the “What Went Wrong?” podcast, for a lively, insightful exploration of the wild story, its catastrophic effects, and why “nuking space” is a prime candidate for the history books’ biggest blunders. The conversation hits on themes of scientific hubris, unintended consequences, Cold War paranoia, and parallels with contemporary issues like artificial intelligence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest Introductions and Warmup (02:10–03:55)

• Ed introduces Chris and Lizzie, noting their background as writers, producers, directors, and podcast hosts.
• Lizzie explains the premise of their show: exploring chaos behind movie productions—"Every movie is a miracle because of how incredibly hard they are to make, even the bad ones." (03:28)
• Chris shares his perspective: "Sometimes you think you're making a terrible movie and somehow it turns out great... making movies is humbling. They're so hard." (03:55)
• Ed agrees, emphasizing moviemaking's unpredictability and teamwork.

2. Setting the Stage: The Starfish Prime Event (04:37–06:13)

• Ed sets a vivid scene of the Hawaii night in 1962 as Starfish Prime detonates overhead.
• “So picture this. You’re on vacation in Hawaii... It’s a warm July night in 1962... suddenly, a massive flash lights up the sky. A red glow streaks across... It’s not aliens, although that would be a reasonable guess.” (05:12)
• The entire premise: During the Cold War, the U.S. wasn't afraid to "nuke space" as part of the arms and space race.

3. Why Nuking Space? Cold War Logic and Experimentation (06:19–09:35)

• Chris quips, “Let’s put some radiation inside of a closed system and see what happens. We’re going to shake the snow globe with uranium.” (06:52)
• Lizzie and Ed discuss the questionable logic: Was it about weaponization, science, or just bravado?
• Explanation of Operation Fishbowl, a series of high-altitude nuclear tests (including Starfish Prime), under Project Dominic—36 detonations in the Pacific in 1962 alone.
• Comment on the innocuous, almost “Sea World” code names (Fishbowl, Starfish, etc.)
  • Ed, humorously: “Operation Fishbowl sounds less like a nuclear testing program and more like something you’d win tickets to see at Sea World.” (09:36)

4. Pop Culture Parallels—Nuclear Cinema and Sci-Fi (09:47–12:32)

• Discussion of favorite nuclear/Cold War movies:
  • Chris: The China Syndrome, War Games, The Iron Giant (“The movie ends with a nuclear device being detonated in space... could a weapon decide not to be a weapon?”) (11:12)
  • Lizzie: Dr. Strangelove: “You needed to explain the existence of the Doomsday Machine... They just built it. You’re 10 steps ahead and 15 steps behind. That feels applicable.” (10:27)
  • The Americans as a TV parallel.
• Ed points out the resonance of "boys playing dangerous games" with nuclear weapons, similar to the "War Games" film.

5. Early Failures in Operation Fishbowl (12:32–14:48)

• The first and second high-altitude test missiles malfunctioned.
• “The second test, the Thor missile malfunctioned again, and the warhead once again had to be destroyed mid flight, showering the Pacific Ocean with plutonium contaminated confetti.” (12:38)
• Jokes about “special underwater ordnance disposal teams”—"Those are just people with a fancy name." (13:34)
• Lizzie: "It seems like you should stop." (13:05)
• Chris: Raises the pointlessness of the risks involved: "Now I'm going to die for my country for an ambiguous test... to what end?" (14:02)

6. Public Spectacle & Propaganda (15:32–17:10)

• The government publicly announced the tests in news headlines, with colorful, even festive descriptions:
  • “In blast tonight may be dazzling.” (15:51)
  • “The white fireball is expected to spread across the sky, changing colors as it grows.” (16:08)
• Lack of transparency on radiation dangers; a sense of nuclear "entertainment" for the public.

7. What Was Known About Nuclear Risks? (16:53–18:41)

• Ed provides historical context: "There's a lot still unknown... their judgment was clouded by how little they knew." (17:10)
• Lizzie: Asks whether they understood the health and environmental impact.
• Ed: Suggests the partial awareness after WWII but also a deliberate underplaying of real dangers, reflecting attitudes of the era.

Deep Dive: The Starfish Prime Test and Its Fallout

8. The Starfish Prime Explosion (21:59–25:49)

• July 9, 1962, 11pm: A Thor missile launched from Johnston Atoll (remote Pacific), detonating 1.4 megaton warhead 250 miles up (same altitude as today’s International Space Station).
• Visible from 870 miles away—“the most spectacular far-flung effects of any man-made event in history.” (25:41)
• Created a massive, colorful artificial aurora; a glowing plasma bubble distorting Earth's magnetic field and "carving a temporary cavity in the ionosphere."
• Chris: “The atmosphere is the only thing maintaining life on our planet. Let’s poke a hole in it. Let’s see what happens.”

9. Modern Reactions and Historical Parallels (24:00–29:48)

• Discussion of public and personal reactions to the spectacle:
  • Chris: "To me, man has created an artificial sun. An artificial sun that lights up half of the world... It feels apocalyptic, Promethean." (28:03)
  • Ed: Raises questions about uninformed islanders—“must have thought the end of the world was happening.” (29:41)

10. Consequences: EMPs and Technological Vulnerability (29:53–36:23)

• The explosion’s Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) disabled electronics—including 300+ streetlights, burglar alarms, phone systems—nearly a thousand miles away in Hawaii. (29:53)
• Eyewitness accounts: Some were disappointed ("no mushroom cloud"), others in awe.
• Chris draws a line to pop culture (The Matrix, One Second After), dangers of EMPs destroying infrastructure and society’s deep reliance on electronics: “You’d be back to the Stone Age.” (34:01)
• Lizzie: "That's why we should all go to trade school." (35:37)
• Preppers, old-school mechanical tools, and the vulnerabilities of modern tech emerge as themes.

11. The Radiation Belt & Damaged Satellites (37:23–42:41)

• Fallout included creating an artificial radiation belt around Earth—not just an immediate EMP, but persistent dangers that lasted a decade.
• One-third of satellites in Earth orbit in 1962 were damaged—including the pioneering TV satellite Telstar 1.
• NASA had to change an astronaut’s flight plan: “...realized that their astronaut would be killed by residual Starfish Prime radiation if he flew over 640km in altitude.” (41:53)
• The Van Allen Belts—Earth’s magnetic shield—were altered, raising the stakes for future space travel.

12. Global Reaction & Aftermath (42:41–44:08)

• The Soviet Union condemned the test; Russian radio called it “a crime perpetrated by American atom maniacs.” (43:15)
  • Ed: “The atomaniacs, which I think we kind of live up to.”
• Despite the chaos, the test was labeled a “success” by U.S. officials.
• Starfish Prime proved a turning point: the most powerful and consequential of eight nuclear space tests.
• President Kennedy subsequently canceled the next test, which was planned to be three times higher. (44:08)

13. Ban on Space Nukes: Treaties and Lessons (45:03–46:12)

• The 1963 Partial Test Ban Treaty and 1967 Outer Space Treaty were direct responses—banning nuclear tests and weapons of mass destruction in space, underwater, and in the atmosphere.
• Ed: “Nuking space is a great way to get everyone to agree on a few ground rules.” (46:16)

Big Ideas & Parallels to Today

14. Institutional Recklessness: Nukes, Space, and Artificial Intelligence (46:12–51:44)

• Ed broadens the conversation: likens the blind experimentation with nuclear weapons to our current unregulated rush into artificial intelligence.
  • “The way our governmental and military institutions approached testing of this nature... feels a lot like the way we’re lurching blindly into this artificial intelligence era.” (46:38)
• Lizzie: "If we don't do it, someone else will. It's about control and hubris—exactly what Kubrick is mocking in Dr. Strangelove. There's so much hubris in thinking you can control what's uncontrollable." (46:58)
• Chris delivers a passionate critique:
  • “AI is being sold as an existential conflict... but there is very little actual evidence that these tools make anybody more productive... it’s management selling to management.” (47:28)
  • “Cognitive abilities decline quickly when you stop thinking for yourself... The tragedy is, with AI, the nuclear bomb is being detonated inside every home.” (49:00)
  • “We need to come up with some way of regulating it...” (50:11)
• Ed: AI development can be like seeking “first contact” with something superhuman; similar compulsions drove nuclear research. (50:46)

15. The Call for Curiosity—But with Prudence (51:44–52:49)

• Lizzie: "There's too much here... so much unexplored. I don't necessarily see the appeal of rushing to know what’s out there, with AI or in space."
• Chris: Stresses the need for healthy curiosity, but not reckless abandon—"It cannot simply be a zero sum game of reckless abandon..." (52:18)

Notable Quotes

• Ed Helms:
  "This is America, baby. That's right. We are literally nuking space in this moment." (05:40)

• Chris Winterbauer:
  "Let’s put some radiation inside of a closed system and see what happens. We’re going to shake the snow globe with uranium." (06:52)
  "Now I'm going to die for my country for an ambiguous test that we're not sure why we're doing at the end of the day." (14:20)
  "You’d be going basically back to hunter gatherer." (35:00)
  On AI: "The tragedy is, with AI, the nuclear bomb is being detonated inside every home." (49:00)

• Lizzie Bassett:
  "I just didn't shed a single tear [for The Iron Giant]. So maybe I have no soul." (11:52)
  About the arms race: "There was some level of mass psychosis happening...where people were just like, yep, good plan, go right ahead." (39:05)
  "There's too much here. There's so much unexplored here... I do not see the appeal necessarily of feeling the need to go out and know what's out there." (51:47)

• On the press coverage:
  "In blast tonight may be dazzling." (15:51)
  "The atmosphere is the only thing maintaining the life on our planet. Let's poke a hole in it. Let's see what happens." (24:00)
  "The atomaniacs, which I think we kind of live up to that." (43:17)

Key Timestamps

• 02:10–03:55 – Guest intro & podcast premise
• 06:13–09:35 – Cold War arms/space race & Operation Fishbowl
• 10:27–11:44 – Cold War films, Dr. Strangelove, Iron Giant
• 12:32–14:48 – Early test failures & clean-up “teams”
• 15:32–18:41 – Government press releases & public spectacle
• 21:59–25:49 – The Starfish Prime event: launch, detonation, aurora
• 29:53–36:23 – EMPs fried Hawaii electronics, pop culture, societal vulnerability
• 37:23–42:41 – Artificial radiation belt harms satellites, risks to astronauts
• 42:41–44:08 – Global reaction, test considered a "success" (!), Kennedy cancels next step
• 45:03–46:12 – Test ban treaties post-Starfish Prime
• 46:12–51:44 – Parallels to AI, regulation, philosophical reflections
• 52:49–53:39 – Close and playful discussion of using EMPs in rom-coms

Memorable Moments

• The hilarious pitches for turning nuclear disaster into a rom-com, e.g. “EMPerfect for Each Other.” (53:22)
• “Operation Fishbowl sounds less like a nuclear testing program and more like something you'd win tickets to see at Sea World.” (09:36)
• Ed’s dry summary: “Nuking space is a great way to get everyone to agree on a few ground rules.” (46:13)
• Chris’s prepping anecdote about a former colleague's EMP-proof tractor (36:23)
• Philosophical musing: “It cannot simply be a zero sum game of reckless abandon…” (52:18)

This episode expertly balances history, humor, cultural references, and sobering cautionary tales. For those unfamiliar with the story, it offers a captivating retelling of a high-stakes experiment gone awry, the enduring lessons it left, and why humanity’s “toddler with nukes” reputation is far from over.