"Are Audiences Out Of Control?"

Summary

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Stage Combat The Podcast

Episode: "Are Audiences Out Of Control?"

Date: June 29, 2026
Host: Sean Hayden
Guest: Matt Koplik (Host of Broadway Breakdown)

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Overview

This season finale of Stage Combat The Podcast delves into the pressing question: Are theater audiences spiraling out of control? Host Sean Hayden and returning guest Matt Koplik reflect on how in-theater decorum has shifted drastically in recent years, examining infamous incidents, the roots and impact of unruly behavior, and discussing both cultural and structural causes. They also challenge listeners and theatergoers to reconsider their role in the collective theater experience and propose ways to support a healthier live arts environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shocking Audience Behavior – From Phones to 'Living Room Syndrome'

• Infamous Incidents Discussed:

  • Patti LuPone Moments:
    • 2009: Patti LuPone directly calls out a patron for taking photos during Gypsy ([01:13])
    • 2015: Patti grabs an audience member’s phone for texting during a performance ([02:01])
  • Recent Events:
    • Rosamund Pike pauses an Olivier-winning performance to address a texting audience member ([02:31])
    • Unruly behavior: snacking, loud public conversations, treating the theater like a personal living room ([02:56])
    • Audience members interrupting performances (e.g., a Just In Time audience member shouting a TV character’s name at the stage) ([03:13])
    • Escalation to physical altercations (e.g., Mamma Mia! patron demands security to stop others from singing along and disrupting the show) ([03:42])

• Living Room Syndrome/Main Character Syndrome:

  • Both hosts identify a trend where audience members act as if in their private space, disregarding communal responsibility.
  • Quote:
    • “I call it living room syndrome.” – Sean Hayden ([08:42])
    • “Everyone since the pandemic feels like every place they're in, they're in their living room, everyone else be damned.” – Matt Koplik ([08:45])
    • "There's a sense of entitlement that comes from just people being alive. Now..." – Matt Koplik ([08:59])

• Social Media’s Influence:

  • Growing culture of “main character syndrome,” fueled by the desire to document and share every experience; audiences increasingly see themselves as the star and the event as their content ([09:18]–[11:53])

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2. Entitlement, Standings Ovations, and Audience Expectations

• Entitlement Tied to Cost:
  • High ticket pricing increases entitlement: “I've spent all this money...I'm entitled to experience this how I want to.” – Matt Koplik ([09:45])
• Obligatory Standing Ovations:
  • Discussion about the now-routine nature of standing ovations — less about genuine appreciation, more about self-validation and social media content ([14:16])
  • Quote:
    • “It's about the person standing up and not about the performance, in my opinion.” – Sean Hayden ([14:20])
    • “Sondheim talked about this...people pay so much money, they want to believe they're at a unique experience, and so they stand to prove to themselves that that's the case.” – Matt Koplik ([14:57])
  • Standing ovations frequently triggered by people trying to get the best photo or video of the curtain call, rather than authentic enthusiasm ([15:12], [15:52])
• Curtain Calls and Filming:
  • Enhanced by elaborate musical curtain calls aimed at promoting social media virality ([16:36]–[17:17])

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3. The Impact on Theater's Communal Power

• Diminishing Shared Experience:
  • The self-centered approach erodes the theater's unique communal energy; genuine collective reactions are disrupted by phone use, filming, and personal spectacle ([19:29]–[20:07])
  • Quote:
    • “[Phone users and singers]...are actually keeping themselves as well as me from having a communal response.” – Matt Koplik ([19:29])
• Leslie Manville on Digital Distraction:
  • Clip:
    • “Virtually the whole audience will take out their phone at the end...Why can't they let it live in their souls for five minutes?...Clap or don't clap, but don't just stick up your phone in our faces.” – Leslie Manville ([20:22])
  • Hosts agree, emphasizing the importance of letting a theatrical moment reside in memory without digital mediation ([21:06]–[23:21])

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4. The Crisis of Stage Door Culture

• Stage Dooring Gone Too Far:

  • Fans now routinely expect face time, autographs, and more, sometimes expressing anger if denied ([04:03], [24:39])
  • Dangerous incidents:
    • Fans following actors home or backstage (e.g., Audra McDonald, Ethan Slater, Jessica Vosk) ([04:40], [05:21], [28:29])
    • Physical boundaries being crossed, including unwanted touching or invasions of personal space ([26:03])
  • Quote:
    • “They don't owe that to you. The actors don't owe that to you.” – Matt Koplik ([25:19])

• Social Media and Parasocial Relationships:

  • Online access can create a false sense of intimacy or ownership over performers ([25:22])
  • “People follow a Broadway performer on Instagram and they can start feeling like they know them...” – Matt Koplik ([25:22])

• Calls to Abolish Stage Dooring:

  • Both agree: safety and actor well-being outweigh the tradition. “Someone's going to die. I'm sorry.” – Matt Koplik ([28:12])
  • “It should be okay [for actors not to stage door]. It shouldn't have to be an announcement.” – Matt Koplik ([28:52])

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5. Solutions & Audience Responsibility

• Restoring Respect in the Audience:

  • Turn off phones, refrain from recording, and respect both the performance and fellow theatergoers
  • Be a positive example: “Be the ally that you wish was out there... do a small, polite call out.” – Matt Koplik ([30:09])

• Pointed Advice:

  • “The standing ovation is meaningless because the cast sees how you're acting during the show.” – Matt Koplik ([30:39])
  • “It doesn't matter if you stood for me at the end. You still make me feel like a useless, like, dancing monkey for you. We see everything.” – Matt Koplik ([30:45])

• Inspiration for Listeners:

  • The season closes with a reminder that everyone’s stories matter, and real change starts with self-awareness and support for those on stage and in the audience ([31:45])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [06:21] Matt Koplik: "I think not all heroes wear capes. I fully understand [the angry Mamma Mia audience member]. At this point in my life with theater going, I just... I don't give a flying fuck anymore."
• [09:22] Matt Koplik: “Main character syndrome... the mentality of your life is a movie and you're the main character because you're in every scene.”
• [14:20] Sean Hayden: “It's about the person standing up and not about the performance, in my opinion.”
• [20:22] Leslie Manville: "Why can't they let it live in their souls for five minutes? ... Clap or don't clap, but don't just stick up your phone in our faces."
• [25:19] Matt Koplik: "They don't owe that to you. The actors don't owe that to you."
• [28:12] Matt Koplik: "Someone's going to die. I'm sorry." (regarding the danger of stage door culture)
• [30:39] Matt Koplik: "The standing ovation is meaningless because the cast sees how you're acting during the show."
• [30:45] Matt Koplik: “It doesn't matter if you stood for me at the end... We see everything.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:13 — Patti LuPone scolds audience for taking photos (Gypsy, 2009)
• 02:01 — Patti LuPone grabs phone from audience member (2015)
• 03:42 — Mamma Mia patron calls security over disruptive singing
• 04:40 — Audra McDonald recounts being followed by a fan
• 05:21 — Jessica Vosk shares fan breaking into dressing room
• 08:42 — Sean Hayden coins “living room syndrome”
• 09:22 — Matt Koplik introduces “main character syndrome”
• 14:20 — Debate about obligatory standing ovations
• 20:22 — Leslie Manville criticizes digitizing curtain calls
• 25:19 — Discussion of entitlement at the stage door
• 28:12 — Call to abolish stage door due to safety concerns
• 30:09 — Advocating for positive audience action

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Conclusion

Hayden and Koplik's conversation is candid, humorous, and filled with firsthand accounts of both frustration and hope. While lamenting current audience behaviors, they invite listeners to reflect on what makes live theater unique—a collective, in-the-moment experience that’s increasingly under threat. The hosts urge the community to reject entitlement and digital distraction in favor of respect and genuine communal engagement, concluding that the responsibility falls on every audience member, not just the stars on stage.

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Transcript

[Sean Hayden]

Foreign.

I'm an attorney, I'm an actor, and I'm an advocate.

[Matt Koplik]

My name is Sean Hayden.

[Sean Hayden]

When I was wrongfully fired as an actor from a certain famous theater, I fought back. Suddenly I was a whistleblower, and I

[Matt Koplik]

told my story true crime style in a podcast.

[Sean Hayden]

Since then, I've been telling your stories and having the tough conversations that a lot of people in the entertainment we don't want us to have. This is Stage Combat, the podcast. Just imagine a simpler time on Broadway. Let's say the odds you've just slipped into the comfort of your slightly cramped seat. Okay, it's very cramped, but hey, it's on Broadway. You're surrounded by your fellow theatergoers at the St. James Theater for a thrilling performance of the revival of Gypsy. And this happens.

[Audience Member / Security]

Stop taking pictures right now. You heard the announcements. Who do you think you are? Get them out.

[Sean Hayden]

That's, of course, the infamous Patti LuPone moment that reverberated around the world. But there is something very quaint about that moment. In 2009, Ms. Patty was in an uproar against that audience member because they took a photo. And sure, while that audience member was wrong, no photos during the show. You heard the announcement. Got it. Doesn't that seem like a simpler time? Because Patty had no idea that things would only get worse and she would be involved in another incident with another audience member.

[Narrator / Voiceover]

We all know how annoying it can be when someone's texting during a show. The actors hate it most of all. So Broadway legend Patti LuPone took matters into her own hands, snatching away the offending phone.

[Sean Hayden]

And she was oblivious to everybody except for herself and her phone.

The advent of smartphones changed the way audiences were behaving at shows. And since that incident in 2015, it doesn't seem like audiences have learned their

[Matt Koplik]

lesson and was on the floor, was texting in this part.

You know who you are, and I'm

not gonna single you out.

[Sean Hayden]

But that's actor Rosamund pike from just a few weeks ago calling out an audience member who was texting during a

[Matt Koplik]

very emotional scene in her Olivier winning

[Sean Hayden]

performance of the play, inter alia, in London. And no, Rosamund did not take the phone. But it also seems like something has changed with audience behavior that goes beyond

[Matt Koplik]

the whole phone thing.

[Sean Hayden]

Audience members are now slurping on alcoholic drinks and crunching on snacks and behaving like they're at home in their living rooms. Actor Issa Briones, who stars in the TV series the Pit, was performing this past spring in the musical Just in time on Broadway when an unhinged audience member called her by her TV character's name. That's Dr. Trinity Santos, the audience member yelled out, followed by are you going to finish your charts? And many people have had it with unruly audience members like this guy at a performance of Mamma Mia. Who was at his wits end after listening to a row of people behind him singing along with the actors throughout the show.

[Audience Member / Security]

I need a security over here now. Cuz these ladies and this whole section gonna vouch for it. You wanna make a scene? I'm gonna make a scene. Bullshit. I need, I need. Where is there a security guard? I need security right here.

[Sean Hayden]

But I fear something else has happened

[Matt Koplik]

with the fans of Broadway shows that we need to talk about.

[Sean Hayden]

There's a sense of entitlement when it comes to this practice of stage dooring.

[Matt Koplik]

That's the practice of fans lining up

[Sean Hayden]

at the stage door for the actors

[Matt Koplik]

to come out after the show.

[Sean Hayden]

For many actors it's become too much. Heather's star, Casey Likes was booed at the stage door recently.

[Matt Koplik]

Heather posted on her social media in

[Sean Hayden]

response, not very nice to yell at me and boo at me as I'm taking an alternate exit. But stage dooring is also getting a little dangerous out there. Last year Audra McDonald revealed this incident which happened during the run of the Gypsy revival.

She started and last night someone, they snuck around and found me the way I had exited from the theater last night and followed me all the way to where I was staying, came into the building and was uncomfortably close. And then when I finally got some security to help me, their response was, well, hey, I've come all the way. And they named some town, some city that they'd come all the way from and they wanted an autograph and felt that they deserved an autograph. And that is crossing a big old boundary.

And just a few weeks ago, actor Jessica Vosk had a harrowing experience with a fan who while she was performing in Peaches.

[Jessica Vosk]

I wanted to talk about something really scary that happened the other night and that is that a superfan made their way backstage to my dressing room after the show. Please do not try and somehow sneak backstage to someone's dressing room at a show. It's really scary for us. It might not feel scary to you, but it is for us.

[Sean Hayden]

So what is causing all this erratic behavior with audiences and what can we do about it? To help answer these questions, fortunately I have some very capable help from Matt Koplik, host of the podcast Broadway Breakdown. You might Remember, Matt helped us unpack the Queen of Versailles earlier this season. And Matt is not holding back.

[Matt Koplik]

Let me ask you this. The infamous Mamma Mia. Man that we played the clip of, who completely lost it.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

What did you think about that?

I think not all heroes wear capes. I fully understand him.

Yeah. I think the way that that guy snapped in a really ferocious way. Yeah, it was extreme. You're shaking your head. You don't think it was extreme.

I have no notes for him. Honestly, at this, at this point in my life with theater going, I just. I don't give. Am I allowed to curse? Yeah, I don't give a flying fuck anymore.

[Sean Hayden]

I'm Sean Hayden and you're listening to the season finale of Stage Combat, the podcast season four. Are audiences out of control?

[Matt Koplik]

Hey, Matt Koplik. Hi.

Sean Hayden. How are you?

Welcome back to Stage Combat, Matt. You're our season finale.

Oh, honored, thrilled, delighted.

Thank you. And somehow you and I, we both made it through another Broadway season. And I've made it through another season of Stage Combat.

We are still standing. I did not know we could be this strong, but here we are.

We're still standing. Look, we covered a lot of topics in this season of Stage Combat, looking at the industry, looking at certain theaters, and this time I thought we would look at ourselves, the audiences. Of course not. You and I, Matt, we're always well behaved at a show. Perfect.

I'm perfect all the time.

But, Matt, hearing that clip of Patti LuPone going back to 2009 when we were just concerned about someone taking photos,

[Sean Hayden]

doesn't that seem like a much more

[Matt Koplik]

innocent time when it comes to audience behavior?

Yeah, it does. I sometimes think about, there's a story that Elaine Stritch used to talk about when she was standing by for Ethel Merman and Call Me Madam. And there was one performance where there was a guy in the audience drunk, and he was shouting back to the stage. Now, I don't know how true this story is, but the allegedly merman got off the stage, grabbed him and threw him out of the theater and then went back and resumed the show. But I think about that sometimes when I think about people today.

I want that story to be so true.

I want it to be true very badly. But, you know, Elaine Stritch was very famous for saying things that were good stories, if not always true stories, and

that's why we loved her.

[Audience Member / Security]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And she didn't like to wear pants, and neither do I. So here we are.

Just put on your tights and a men's shirt.

Yeah, that's all I need.

Which is what Matt is wearing right now, by the way, just for those of you who can't see him. Okay. So, Matt, what do we chalk up this behavior to?

[Sean Hayden]

I call it living room syndrome.

[Matt Koplik]

I just call it that everyone since the pandemic, feels like every place they're in, they're in their living room, everyone else be damned. That's the way I feel. What do you call this phenomenon? How do you describe it?

Well, I just think it's been a downward spiral for a while now. I feel like there are a couple of different routes to this. One is there's a sense of entitlement that comes from just people being alive. Now, that I think definitely got enhanced from the pandemic of a lot of people having main character syndrome.

Ooh, ooh.

[Sean Hayden]

Let's.

[Matt Koplik]

Let's talk about that. Main character syndrome.

Yeah.

What do we mean by that?

I mean, it's not full blown narcissism, but it is the mentality of your life is a movie and you're the main character because you're in every scene. And thus you think the world is. It's. You know when people say the world doesn't revolve around you, we're now kind of living in a time where I feel like half the world, if not more. It's like, but what if it does revolve around me?

Because that's social media. We're the stars of our own movies.

Yeah. And I find that the sense of entitlement is also now tied into the price range for Broadway, which is notoriously very expensive. And so people think, I've spent all this money, I've traveled to be here. I'm entitled to experience this how I want to. It's about how I am seeing the show, not how we are seeing the show, which goes against the whole purpose of going to a theater, of experiencing something together. I don't understand it, because I would think that if you've paid a gajillion dollars to see a movie star you love in a play, that's bad. Which, let's be real, is like, half the time. Sean, I'd imagine if you're like, I blew a month's rent to see this, that you would be damn sure to turn off your cell phone, that you would not bring food because you would want to absorb every dollar that you spend. And yet some people are like, well, now that I'm here, I'm going to get comfy.

I mean, we've talked a lot about this season. Sort of how a lot of bad behavior is a result of sort of what's happened at the top. Right. What's. What's happening? Government. And that a big segment of the population advocating for someone who has no manners, who is rude is so self entitled. How much has that has been sort of filtered into the culture?

Yeah, listen, I think he has been at the root of a lot of very nasty discussions with people and like discourse in general is at an all time low because of this.

Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit with the Queen of Versailles. The level of discourse. Right. The. The lack of intelligent discourse.

Yeah. Of, of being able to acknowledge nuance and media literacy and. But also again, it's hard to fully blame social media because there no one thing that's the root cause, not one thing caused the cancer that is how people are acting. But there's plenty of things to it. Or you know, people look at the world as fodder for content. And it's this idea of it's not that I'm going to see a show, I'm going to document me seeing this show for my quote unquote followers and it no longer becomes a thing you can experience. It's a thing that you have to sell. It's a lifestyle you're trying to promote.

Yeah. Because it's not about I'm going to go experience theater. It's the main event is I am going to see this show. Like the focal point is that I am here at this show and I paid a lot of money for this ticket and I'm the star of my own movie. And today in this movie, I'm going to see a Broadway show.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask you this. The infamous Mamma Mia man that we played the clip of, who completely lost it.

Yeah.

What did you think about that?

I think not all heroes wear capes. I fully understand him. And that's something that has been at the root of so many issues for people. Honestly, since Mamma Mia was on Broadway the first time. You always hear stories at these jukebox musicals of people singing along.

Dude, I was in the tour. I suffered through that.

I'm so sorry.

I was in the tour and I've done two productions of Mamma Mia. And I know the problems that come with that show.

It's a shame because I, I do love that show. But part of the joy of that show for me is to just let the music happen.

Yeah. I think the way that that guy snapped in a really ferocious way. Yeah. It was extreme, but I think there's a lot of people that identified with him. You're shaking your head. You don't think it was extreme?

I have no notes for him. Honestly, at this. At this point in my life with theater going, I just. I don't give. Am I allowed to curse? Yeah, I don't give a flying anymore.

[Audience Member / Security]

Okay.

[Matt Koplik]

I've been luckily close enough to somebody where I can say something, and I say it, like, quietly, respectfully, but pointedly, and.

Oh, okay. So that was my question. Do you say something to someone if you.

Yes.

Oh, good for you.

Yeah, I do, but I ha. I have to be close enough to them.

Yeah.

My greatest tragedy, Sean, is oftentimes the person is not close enough to me that I can't do anything about it in the moment.

So they can hear you.

Yeah. They're always, like, two seats too far away, that if I were to do something, I would have to get up and lean over to them. And in that case, they have to be really the worst.

I would say something, too.

[Sean Hayden]

I did.

[Matt Koplik]

At death becomes her. The woman in front of me was filming.

And did you say to her, I

said, you can't film that. And then I said, I'm a member of Actors Equity. You can't film that. As if that was my authority. And she did. Stop.

I usually tell people, I am the secret artistic director of Broadway, and I am telling you what we do. And I just say, you're going to need to stop that now.

Okay, Matt, I want to talk about this. Drives me crazy.

Okay.

Is the obligatory standing ovation for Broadway shows. So what we see, every show gets a standing ovation. Every show, no matter how bad the show is. And I think this comes back to what we were talking about earlier, is that it's that ratification for the individual that I came to Broadway and I had this lived the movie that I've seen where people stand up for the Broadway star, and it was fabulous. It was the best show. It was amazing. Yay. For me, it's about the person standing up and not about the performance, in my opinion. What do you think?

Yeah, I think that's definitely part of it. I think that's where the epidemic of it began. Sondheim talked about this in an interview where he was like, people pay so much money, they want to believe they're at a unique experience, and so they stand to prove to themselves that that's the case.

Yep.

I do think part of that has shifted since the pandemic. I think also what kind of now has Created the obligatory standing ovation is there are people at the curtain call in the audience who want to make sure they get a good picture of that curtain call. And so they're up on their feet already taking those photos, and then people behind them are like, well, I want to see who's bowing next. So they stand up.

[Sean Hayden]

Right.

[Matt Koplik]

And then other people stand up. I've seen it more and more and more where it's not everyone getting to their feet. Because sometimes in the past, like, even if I think it's kind of silly, there have been shows where the standing ovation didn't happen until, like, the lead came out and then it became en masse.

It seems like it's earlier, though, now. Well, because of the filming.

It's people getting up, filming and taking photos earlier. And so it's happening rather en masse. It's happening piecemeal all over. And it happens so quickly now. And the truth is that I know that actors know the difference because I've spoken to many of them about this as well. Like, the standing ovation means nothing because it tends to be tied to often muted audio responses. Like, you. You see that the audience is on their feet, but the cheering is like a 5.5 out of 10.

Yeah.

Or like, at best, a 7 out of 10. And it's very rare that I see a standing ovation for a show where the response from the audience is such. Where it's like, no, no, no, no. This makes sense.

Yeah. There's also another thing happening that the producers want, particularly with the musicals. Right. So we have with musicals, elaborate curtain calls, because you want people to film those and post it on social media, because that's a part of the show. They can legally film film. Right. So you want those clips up. You want those chess clips. Didn't work. It's still closing. So I think that's a big factor of it for those type of shows.

Yeah. I blame the British for that, because Mamma Mia, Billy Elliot 6. Like, these curtain calls that are like a whole production ever in themselves, it

all comes back to Mamma Mia.

Yeah, it all comes back to them. But, you know, those are the shows that had these curtain calls that weren't just curtain calls. They were an extra production number, and that became a whole thing.

Do you want to hear a funny story?

Always.

Okay. So I was not a Mamma Mia fan, but I was casting the tour and I hadn't seen the show, and then we were in rehearsals, and then they let the cast go see it. And I'm Just like, oh, man, I don't like this show. And so then the megamix comes up, and I'm like, I'm not gonna stand up because you're trying to manipulate me to stand up. And of course I look like an asshole because I won't stand up during the megamix.

I mean, when have you ever been concerned about looking that way, Sean?

But let me tell you something. A play you and I both loved. We loved Marjorie prime this past season with Cynthia Nixon, June Squibb. But here's the deal. I was sitting in the mezzanine. I loved that play. It was. It's probably my favorite play, along with Oedipus. And we've talked about this.

[Sean Hayden]

I didn't stand up because you know why?

[Matt Koplik]

I was still thinking about the show. And it has a very quiet ending that's very thoughtful. And so I was not on my feet. But it doesn't mean I didn't love the show. I loved it.

I think that's fair. Listen, the truth is that a lot of these shows, we don't know what their genuine impact is until years later or months later. Like, I've said this before. I am not the decider of what is good. The New York Times is not the decider. You are not the decider. Time is the decider. And I think that a show that can stay with you, the fact that you and I feel this way about Marjorie prime in June, and that show closed, I think, in December, maybe early January, that, I think, is the proof that that show was worth something. And it, as you said, like, it maybe doesn't result in it going viral. It doesn't result in it having this huge ovation, doesn't result in fans swarming the stage door with cameras and whatever. But those of us who saw it, it really hit us in a beautiful way. And the fact that we are willing to let it sit with us shows not to too good our own horns, but us as an audience member understanding that, like, it's not about you and I individually, it's about us collectively.

Yes.

And how this show can affect a giant group of people. That's the beauty that I'm always trying to get back to of. There's something really special about when, whether it's 400 or 2,000 strangers collectively having the same response to one thing or having multiple responses to one, it's just so. There's, like, nothing better than when truly a joke lands for the entire theater or a twist works for the entire theater or something sad works for the entire theater. It's really beautiful. And that's why I'm always kind of frustrated at the people on their phones or the people singing along, where I'm like, you're actually keeping yourself as well as me from having a communal response. Right now.

I want to stay on the curtain call and I want to play a clip from an actor we both love, the British actor Leslie Menville, who was in Oedipus. And here's what she had to say about curtain calls during Oedipus.

[Leslie Manville]

I've just come back from Broadway where I did Oedipus. Virtually the whole audience will take out their phone at the end of the evening. Why can't they let it live in their souls for five minutes? But it's like people need to take a photo of the curtain call to prove that they've seen it. You don't have that so much in the uk, but it's starting to filter in and I feel so strongly about it. Come on, it's theatre. Let's preserve. Let's take the digital out of it just for a moment. We're all in this room. We're telling you a story. You're listening. Clap or don't clap, but don't just stick up your phone in our faces.

[Audience Member / Security]

It's.

[Leslie Manville]

Since I find it insulting, Matt, I

[Matt Koplik]

kind of agree with her on this.

Take out the kind of. I agree with her.

Yeah. We both loved this play, Oedipus. It was at Studio 54 this season. And I do remember that moment because it is such a gut punch at the end. And I do remember standing up because I felt like it wasn't like this quiet moment. It was like this moment of horror and shock. I felt like standing up, but I didn't take my phone out and start recording that moment because I was thinking about what I saw and I was really wanting just to focus on the actors and the performance that they had just given to us, you know, given a part of themselves to us for those. How many hours were on that countdown, on that clock right in the show?

Two, baby.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she got some pushback on this. I remember she got pushback with people like, well, you know. And again, it was that sort of mentality. I paid for the show and if I want to record it, that's my right to do it.

And it's the entitlement. She's also a woman speaking her mind publicly, so that's always going to get pushed back because, what is this world? Misogynistic, honey. But I Get what she means. And I do agree with her. Now, of course, there are people who travel to see some of their favorite actors. Maybe it's their one Broadway show a year. They want a memento. I absolutely get that. I would like to invite everyone to consider what Ms. Manville is saying, which is that there are other ways to have mementos of this experience other than a photo of me looking exhausted at curtain call. Maybe it's your playbill. Maybe it's a souvenir. Or maybe it's just the fact that it lives rent free in your head forever. And isn't that kind of nice? Sometimes you can let a memory just be the memory, you know?

Yes. I mean, challenge yourself to just be alone in your thoughts at that curtain call, to contemplate what has just happened.

The other challenge I would have is how special, really, is that photo of the curtain call gonna be to you a year from now. Maybe you put it on Instagram. But, like, are you really gonna say to yourself, I'm so happy I have this photo of the curtain call of Oedipus?

Well, it used to be enough that we had the playbill, and that proved that we went to the show.

That's still enough for me and for

a lot of people. We kept them. Some people framed them. But that was the proof you needed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the thing is that there are memories I have from shows from even when I was a kid that are so burned in my brain. And maybe, you know, some of the details are slightly off over the years because that's what happens with time and with memory. But it's actually more special to me that I remember how Marin Maisie looked simulating childbirth on a picnic table in Kiss Me Kate. Or when she realized that they the bouquet that Brian Stokes Mitchell gave her was actually meant for Amy Spanger and her, like, whipping out those windows with, like, murder on her face. I was nine. It stays with me forever. I think about Sharon Renee Scott and Naida and Heather Headley and Naida, and I remember their performances in certain imagery, and that's without a camera phone. That's without an audio recording. And I cherish those memories. And it keeps me having to, like, digging back into my brain to think about it. I'm not relying on photos or videos for those memories. And I think that makes it a little more special. It's like, it's my own personal thing.

All right, Matt Koplik, we gotta talk about stage door. So just in case someone doesn't know this term, it's Just the practice of the fans line up at the stage door in the hopes of seeing the people that they just saw on stage walk out of the stage door and hopefully get an autograph and that sort of thing. Man, this has gotten out of control. And I think it's very much that sense of entitlement that keeps coming up in this conversation.

Yeah, entitlement, for sure. I think the people who get angry about people who don't. Stage door. Yeah. That is a sense of entitlement, because it's not a prerequisite.

They don't owe that to you. The actors don't owe that to you.

No. There's no Broadway meet and greet at a theater. It is your ticket is for your seat and to see the show, and that is that. Now, I will say the stage door can be a lovely experience. Where I think it's gotten worse is. And once again, while I keep saying it's not the only reason it is a huge culprit. It is social media and the parrot social relationships of everything. People can follow a Broadway performer on Instagram and they can start feeling like they know them with this feeling of, I know you. Yeah, I know Audra McDonald so well. Or like, I know that fourth newsy from the left because I follow them so much, and, like, they're not Jeremy Jordan, so they're gonna be thrilled that I. That I brought them gifts.

Well, we talked about this in the Queen of Versailles. This came up. The idea that the people in the chorus can have these huge followings on social media, and some people are coming to see those people in the chorus. They know who they are already. Yeah.

Which I think is. I think is genuinely awesome. I think it's a great way to highlight other talents. But where it gets weird is that's where, like, the entitlement and the parasocial relationships of it all kind of blend in this really toxic way of, I'm a fan of yours. And because I'm in a subsection of people that can claim themselves as fan of yours, we have a little bit of ownership of you because we're the ones who are promoting you. And there's a case of a young woman planting a kiss on a young male dancer, I think, at Pirates. And there was another person, maybe it was Lost Boys or Stranger Things, where another fan kind of, like, jumped over the barricade to essentially assault them. And while they apologized, you have to ask yourself, like, why is that your instinct to do that? I'm not vilifying you. We all have made mistakes when we're young and our brains aren't fully formed and we have this obsessive target. But again, you have to ask yourself, why is that your impulse? And you're clearly not going to be the only person who's going to go there. So what is it about this culture that's making other people think that that impulse is okay, at least on first instinct?

Well, I think there's another factor, too. I think it's about access. If you compare to, like, film and TV stars, you know, sets are closed so someone can pay and just be within a few feet of a Broadway star, you know, and then all the other access that you were talking about in terms of social media, that actors and stars are sharing personal information and it is mostly for promotion, but there is that sense of access that you would not have with a film or a TV star. And I think that's a big part of it as well.

Yeah, I mean, when Keanu Reeves was on Broadway this season, there was that video. He has a uber, uber crazy fan who, like, tried to attach herself to his car as he was getting driven away. And I mean, that shit is scary.

Well, I honestly just think they should get rid of stage door. I know that's controversial, but this is honestly how I feel. Someone's going to die. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I mean, just the story of the Audra McDonald thing, that person following her, I know.

That happened to Ethan Slater, too. He got followed home in a car, no less. Yeah. I don't know. There are more people who are not doing the stage door, which I appreciate, and openly giving little excuse about it other than just saying, like, I'm not doing it or I'm sick, you know, I'm sorry, but I'm not doing this for the next couple of weeks or whatever. And it's fine. It should be okay. It shouldn't have to be an announcement.

Yeah, I agree. And it's too much. It's too much. Particularly on two show days. There's just so little time for an actor to turn around and whip themselves back into shape to do that second show. Not to mention just, you know, people need to go home and get their rest, too. Even on one show days, just get rid of it.

[Leslie Manville]

Yeah.

[Matt Koplik]

And I know that there are actors who do really like it, but then it's not even just the actors. There's also people working at the theater who still have to work until the stage door is over.

[Sean Hayden]

Yes.

[Matt Koplik]

There's a very famous story of a performer on their final show for this Broadway show. And this person, on their very final show, famously, like, ended up spending over three hours at the stage door, literally talking to every fan, signing everything, because it was their last show and everyone came out for them. And the narrative was, oh, my God, how amazing that was for them to do that for the fans. When I tell you that a friend of mine who worked at that theater was like, oh, the whole theater staff hated that person for, like, a month because they all had to stay till they were done.

I want to make one thing clear. Look, we've come down hard on a lot of audience behavior. But, look, we want you to go to shows. We want you to see Broadway, we want you to see plays. It's just maybe there's a better way to participate in that.

Well, I tell everyone, be the ally that you wish was out there as well. Like, yeah, be the audience member who turns off their phone and pays attention. If someone is next to you and they're being disrespectful, do a small, polite call out. Because a lot of times also, it's. People feel like they're not bothering anyone or like, they generally think that nobody notices that they're on their phone, and it's like, no, no, we see you. Stop it.

It's just being considerate of the people around you, but also the people on stage that are pouring out their hearts and souls for you.

Yeah, that's the other thing. Like, you're. The standing ovation is meaningless because the cast sees how you're acting during the show.

Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

It doesn't matter if you stood for

[Matt Koplik]

me at the end. You still make me feel like a useless, like, dancing monkey.

For you, we see everything. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay, my friend, thank you for coming back again. Congratulations on surviving another season.

Thank you. You, too.

And I hope you have an amazing summer.

Thank you, Sean. I hope you do as well.

Bye, Matt.

Bye, Sean.

I couldn't even really think of a very clever thing to get us out out.

We spent all our clever on the actual conversation. What can I say? What is your life like this in next week?

[Sean Hayden]

Oh, for a drink?

[Matt Koplik]

Yes. Yes. I need a few drinks after this season.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, stage combat, listeners, that's a wrap on another season. Season number four. What a ride we have had together. I'll be honest with you, I wasn't always sure where it would lead us, but I did know we would all end up together and with each other. Together, we were inspired to face adversity with the remarkable Broadway legend Aaron Lazar. We asked ourselves, what the hell did we learn from the Broadway fiasco the Queen of Versailles. We got really intimate and personal about how actors perform sex scenes on stage and on screen. We question whether Broadway should be welcoming back the notorious and abusive producer Scott Rudin with his Tony Award winning hit Death of a Salesman. We asked ourselves how do we thrive as artists under attack under this current administration? We unmask the invisible disability of hearing loss, including my own. We listened openly to two men who are still haunted by an accused Tony Award winning predator who was seeking secretly hired to work on Broadway again this season after being exiled for years. We boldly stood up against censorship by a powerful Tony Award winning Chicago theater. And then we brought it all back to us collectively as an audience in this sacred church we call theater. No matter what stage you are on in your life, I want you to remember you matter. And remember, never stop fighting. This is Stage Combat, the podcast and we will always keep fighting for you. This episode and season was edited by Alex Griffith and mixing and sound design were by Justin Garish, the two best editors a podcast could have. Let us know what you think about this season. Send us a DM at Instagram stagecombatthepodcast IG where you can also follow us or send us an [e-mail] A reminder, nothing in this episode or this season should be construed as a substitute for medical advice or legal advice. You're going to want to consider consult with your own medical and legal professionals. Remember, you can hear bonus content at Stage Combat at Patreon. This is where I'm really asking you as a lawyer listener to step up and help us out. It costs money to produce this kind of meaningful content and if you believe in what we're doing, and I know you do, please support us for just $5 a month. Just follow the link in the show notes. You can be a member for just a month or three months or throughout the year because there's no commitment. And if you are an existing Patreon member, thank you for making this podcast happen. Be sure to hit follow on your podcast platform and don't forget to rate us five stars and review us. That's really important because it lets other people know what this podcast means to you. For the last time this season, I hope today and every day brings you an opportunity to claim your story. Just go out and do it. Stage Combat is a production of Haywood Productions llc.