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You're listening to part two of a two part episode. You'll want to start with episode eight, the Looking Glass. How We Got Here before listening to this episode, the Looking Glass How a Theater Responds. I'm an attorney, I'm an actor, and I'm an advocate. My name is Sean Hayden. When I was wrongfully fired as an actor from a certain famous theater, I fought back. Suddenly I was a whistleblower and I told my story true crime style in a podcast. Since then, I've been telling your stories and having the tough conversations that a lot of people in the entertainment industry don't want us to have. This is Stage Combat the podcast Looking Glass Theater disputes aspects of actor Ayanna Strutz's account of her experience working at Looking Glass in its production of Circus Quixote. Looking Glass has maintained that its productions are safe and produced in accordance with union rules and industry standards. This podcast previously extended an invitation to Looking Glass to appear on an episode and share their side of Ayanna's story. We did not receive a response. Okay everyone, we're just going to get right to it because we have a lot to talk about. No Cold Open. Here's the title. I'm Sean Hayden and you're listening to season four of Stage Combat, the podcast. This is episode nine, the Looking Glass How a Theater Responds. So in our last episode we told you a little bit about the story of Chicago actor Ayanna Strutz and the injuries she says she sustained at the Tony Award winning Chicago theater, Looking Glass Theater. The production Ayanna was in was called Circus Quixote. It was a retelling of the classic Don Quixote tale, but with circus aerial acts integrated into the story. It was in this production that Ayanna says she received multiple injuries, including a spinal leak injury that has left her disabled to this day. Now, if you have not listened to episode eight, you need to stop, go back and listen to it because we walked you through how we came to meet Ayanna and produce her two podcast episodes about her. Those episodes were set to premiere on April 27th of this year. A preview video clip of her episode on our social media the week before the scheduled premiere date caught fire and caught the attention of the Chicago theater community. And it caught the eye of Looking Glass theater because on April 23, four days prior to the air date, a very powerful Chicago law firm sent us a cease and desist letter and a threat to sue us over content regarding Ayanna's story. The next morning I made A video announcement on social media informing you, our listeners and our followers about the cease and desist. And I let you know we would be placing a pause on those episodes while we sort things out. While I told you that there was a cease and desist, did not provide you with the details of what was in that cease and desist. And I'm going to do that now here for the first time. So when the cease and desist was issued, Looking Glass had not heard the episodes yet. Despite my dialogue with Casey Foster that you heard about in the last episode, I did not share the episodes with her, nor did she request to hear them. Looking Glass only saw our social media content with Ayanna and our promotions about the story. And the first thing they dispute in the cease and desist is just how high up in the air Ayanna was when she fell. So the aerial act in question was what they call a straps act. It's where Ayanna and another actor were lifted off the ground hanging onto a very long strap. At the time of the fall, Ayanna was performing a move where she wasn't actually hanging onto that strap. Her aerial partner was. She was only attached to her aerial partner as he was in the air by clasping her fingers around his neck. And they performed this aerial act while spinning in the air. While they were at some height above the ground, Ayanna's hands became undone and she fell on the soles of her feet. She says that impact produced a spinal leak. And if you can imagine the impact from any height, whether it's six feet, eight feet higher, whatever could have a tremendous impact on your spine. There's also other aspects to this story, other things that could have contributed to this fall that we're not going to go into here. And I want to know that after Ayana fell, Looking Glass changed her choreography and they changed the height that she was off the ground, that height was lowered. Remember the other woman who fell, who was taken out by ambulance that we told you about in the last episode, her choreography was changed as well. Well, back to those social media clips. There was a reference to Ayanna being in the air at a height of 15ft. Same figure that had been on Ayanna social media for a year. Same as in the emails to Casey Foster going back to April of 2025. There was also an accident report filed with Looking Glass, her employer, that would have been reviewed the night she fell saying that the height was 10 plus feet. Now, in hindsight, it does appear that figure was off Ayanna believes that figure came to her through someone with a team at Looking Glass. It's hard to say how that person arrived at that figure. It may have related to what they call the pull of the strap, the length of the strap, rather than the actual height the actor was at at the time of the fall. It could have referred to other heights that Ayanna reached during other moments in the act. The point is, she fell, and what we have subsequently heard from circus experts is that she could have been injured falling from 8ft, 6ft, even lower. The point is she was still high enough in the air while spinning that she could have sustained an injury falling onto her feet. Now, if in fact, Looking Glass's objective was just to make sure the podcast episode was completely 100% accurate, I think the easiest thing and the most logical thing would have been for Casey Foster to email me. She has my email address and say, hey, Sean, I think there's a problem with this 15 foot figure. And I would say, okay, well, that's the figure that's been in your documents and on Ayanna's social media and no one has said anything about it, but tell me more. Let's adjust this if we need to. Fine. But that's not what happened. And the major issue that I see in the Cease and Desist is another position asserted by Looking Glass. They objected to Ayanna's opinion that had been stated on her social media that she felt like as a cast member, there was a pressure on the cast to reopen the theater. Remember, it had been shut down for almost two years. This was the show that was going to reopen it. She described a culture of just pushing through. She felt there was not enough time to adequately rehearse things in a way that she felt was safe and sustainable. And Looking Glass said in the Cease and Desists that any suggestion that they were rushing to bring Circus Quixote to the stage places Looking Glass in a false light by suggesting that Looking Glass was. Was negligent. I want to say that when we were putting this story together, Ayanna was not the only person we spoke to who had that opinion. We spoke to others who had that opinion. And again, artists and actors, you're allowed to have opinions about how you felt about your safety while you were on the job. And I'm going to be honest with you, it is mind boggling to me for Looking Glass to make this blanket assertion that an actor in their show who was injured three times could not have an opinion that safety may have gotten compromised. In a rush to reopen at this very critical time for the theater. Now, you may have a difference of opinion. Looking Glass. You may not like Ayanna's opinion. It may even make you uncomfortable. But to make an assertion where you are attempting to prevent us from telling a story where Ayanna, that opinion is where this gets very dangerous. To me, this is different than pointing out there's a disagreement over how high up in the air she was when she fell. And let's adjust that. I've always said this is a fair podcast. So you know what we did in response to the cease and desist? We weren't required to do this, but we said, okay, while we have our media lawyer look at this, in the meantime, we're just going to temporarily suspend the content we have on the story right now and put a pause on the episodes just to show you we're acting in good faith. Our media lawyer reviewed the cease and desist. Total looking glass. Fine. We won't mention any height. The point is she fell. Otherwise we stand by the story. So when I announced on that day on social media that the episodes we had promised were on pause because of the cease and desist, the Internet exploded and a lot of people were angry because here's the deal. A lot of people already knew about Ayanna's story and they were already angry. And now a lot of people were hearing about it for the first time. So I guess the question, and this is a sincere question for Looking Glass that I have for you, is did you think this was the best way to defuse a situation that had already been on fire from the initial video clips that featured Ayanna. Surely you are aware of how the Chicago theater community responds to a crisis, how they exploded just this year over the Jeff Awards controversy. If you don't know what that is, it involved the Invictus Theater Company allegations of emotional abuse and sexual harassment with the artistic director and how the Jeff Awards responded to that. Surely Looking Glass, you were aware of how the community galvanized around other big scandals in the theater community, such as the Profiles theater scandal, which resulted in the not in our House reform initiatives. You can look those up if you're not from Chicago and you're not familiar with them. The point is the Chicago theater community really knows how to rally around what they perceive as is an injustice. And now there's a hashtag out there, justiceforayana. Because I believe the cease and desist actually had the opposite effect of quashing Ayanna's story. Have you ever heard of something called the Streisand effect? Barbra Streisand, 2003, filed a lawsuit against a photographer who has taken photographs of the Malibu coast in California to show coastal erosion. And she objected to the fact that these photos showed her house in Malibu, filed a lawsuit for $50 million against that photographer. Prior to her filing of the lawsuit, six people had downloaded the photo in question. In the first month of her Filing that lawsuit, 400,000 people had looked up the photo. And I have to ask myself, who is advising Looking Glass Theater? I'm sure there are many well meaning people at this theater, but who is advising them to take this action? Is it the board? Is it the lawyers on the board? Let me say something about lawyers, being one myself. Many boards on theaters have lawyers on them. That is a great asset to have. But what may make sense to the mind of a lawyer sitting in an office of a Chicago law firm may not make sense in terms of the best way to handle a crisis with an arts organization that depends on the support of the community and of the artist. Sure, you can say, hey, we'll just send a cease and desist. All we have to do is stop people from talking about this thing. I don't know if that's what someone said. I'm just speculating. But if that was the way of thinking, is that wise? Here's what I'm really concerned about when it comes to this moment, by Looking Glass and sending this cease and desist. This is really important. I want you to listen to this. It is the messaging that resulted from the cease and desist, whether it was intentional or not. Now, that Cease and desist was not against Ayanna. It was against this podcast. And some Looking Glass loyalists have said, hey, they didn't try to stop Iyanna from talking. It was just the podcast. Okay, you know what was the first thing Ayanna asked me when I spoke to her after we got the cease and desist? Are they going to sue me? So, intentionally or unintentionally, what kind of message did you think the cease and desist was going to send to Ayana, to anyone who worked on Circus Quixote and wanted to speak out to anyone who works with you in the future and just might stop themselves from bringing up something that doesn't feel safe to them? We all have to ask ourselves, has the ultimate effect of this letter been to send a message, whether intentional or not, that dissent at this theater will not be tolerated, that this theater will not tolerate an actor having a negative opinion about their safety in the workplace. Because this is what I will tell you in all honesty, Looking Glass, because we heard from a lot of people in response to this story. We heard from actors that have worked for this theater. We heard from crew people who have worked for this theater. We've heard from people who are currently working for this theater. We heard from people who worked in the administration. This is going to be hard for you to hear. A lot of these people are terrified of you. Breaks my heart to even say that. I don't want that to be true for any arts organization. After everything that has happened here. It breaks my heart to hear that actors are terrified of a place where most of them still desperately want to work. I'll be back after this brief message. Foreign. Sean here. I just want to take a moment and acknowledge that many of you ask how you can support the important work we do at stagecomb at the podcast. Well, I'm going to tell you. The best way is to become a member at Stage Combat, the podcast at Patreon. You might have noticed we don't make you listen to advertisements. Instead, we rely on the support of our members and for just $5 a month, you can be one of those cherished members. The best part is there's no commitment. You can be a member for a month, a few months, or throughout the year. Plus you get really great exclusive bonus content for our episodes, including extended interviews, plus V my Shawn Off Script mini episode where I dive deeper into what you heard in the episode and I give you inside information about the making of the episode. So you get a lot of cool stuff while also helping us out. We'd love to have you become a member today. Just follow that link in the show notes. And now back to the episode. I want to tell you what happened the weekend after we got the cease and desist. I want to be careful about this because this is part of Ayanna story and I want her to tell that in her own way when she's ready. But once the cease and desist video blew up, she suddenly heard from a lot of people associated with Looking Glass that she hadn't heard from in over a year. And again, I'm going to let her tell that story when she's ready. But what I can tell you is I got one of those phone calls. So I can tell you about that. It was from a cast member of Circus Quixote, someone very loyal to this theater. God bless you. Seriously. I mean that. God bless you that you feel you have A home where you can work. And I get that. When you feel like you've got a home with a theater and there are future opportunities, I get that you want to be loyal to that theater, fine. But what this person more or less said was that it was both my responsibility and Ayanna's responsibility to go out there and try to diffuse the anger that people in the Chicago theater community had against Looking Glass as a result of us reporting the story and as a result of us informing them about the cease and desist. And I firmly told this person it was not my responsibility, nor Ayanna's responsibility to diffuse a situation that in my opinion, Looking Glass created or was the result of Looking Glass failing to handle the situation in a prudent manner. Okay, that's all I want to say about that. And so from the communications we saw, it became apparent that Looking Glass was feeling some pressure to put out some kind of statement in response to the anger that was out there. Great. That would be a start. And they do. Two weeks after the cease and desist, they put out a statement on social media on Friday night at 8pm I'm going to read it to you. Looking Glass is committed to the safety and health of our artists and staff. We do not believe the show must go on. If an incident occurs, we respond immediately and follow well accepted protocols. We work with our team members to get the help and assistance they need. The privacy and care of our artists and staff are paramount to our mission and company culture. And we're legally obligated to keep employee medical information confidential. We decline to participate in discussing a colleague's health through social media. We continuously work to improve protocol and protective measures. In conversation with the artists, crew members and production teams, we are eager to discuss our safety protocols with the community and encourage you to contact@leadershiplookingglasstheater.org end of statement. Now, I'm just going to say that judging by the public comments that were posted to that statement, that statement did not go over very well. Here's a comment. There is no Mr. Looking Glass on whom to blame all of this. A theater company is just a collection of human beings. To the human beings behind this post, please help each other to imagine a more human response. Instead of battening down the hatches, what would a response shaped by humility, honesty and curiosity and care look like? And then they also note, no one asked you to share Ayanna's private medical information. This person said, what a tone deaf statement. No one's asking you to violate medical privacy. What we want is accountability, not a legal stance. You're losing your performers. Next you'll lose your patrons. Then all you'll have is empty seats. Another comment it's embarrassing when theater companies would rather dig their heels in than apologize and restore trust in the community, this comment reads. It sucks when one of us gets hurt. How you respond to those injuries is what matters. Where anger starts to build is in the response. This response feels like a slap in the face. And finally, someone says, I've been supporting Looking Glass as a patron, volunteer, former staff and teaching artist since 2004. This new corporate David Schwimmer error is not what I signed up for. And my honest reaction when I read the statement was no, what are you doing, Looking Glass? Who thought this was a good idea? Let me tell you something. Every theater in this country says we take safety seriously. All of them. No one's going to say, you know what? We don't care about safety. When a statement is so vague it can read as being performative. Ironically, one of the things I spoke to Casey Foster on March 19 on that Zoom call, Remember I talked about that in the last episode about that gathering we were going to have was how do we get theaters to address safety in a non performative way? Because cast and crews are sick of performative acts. We want to hear how you are making things safe. I recently read a quote from Cate Blanchett, the actor. She was talking about how quickly the MeToo movement died. And talking about the MeToo movement, she said, quote, if you don't identify a problem, you can't solve the problem. You shut down the conversation. You can't move on. End of quote. And my personal opinion is that unless Looking Glass is willing to talk about the issues that Ayanna wanted to talk about and say how you are addressing them, I don't feel like this wound is going to heal for many people. And I'll just note I offered a platform. I told Looking Glass, if you're confident and you believe in your position, come on this podcast with Ayana. I would have even sent them the questions in advance, but as you heard at the top of this episode, they did not accept that invitation to come on and defend their case. Now here is the irony at the end of all this, because what I've heard is that Looking Glass has in fact made many positive changes to the subsequent tour of Circus Quixote, that show Ayanna was in that went on to tour to the McCarter Theater this past spring in New Jersey and Also to the way Looking Glass approaches productions today and in the future. And if our information is correct, a lot of these changes do seem to address some of the things that Ayanna was concerned about. But what I'm also being told, and again, Looking Glass, you can clear this up on your own social media, if it's not the case, is that Looking Glass won't make a public statement about these changes. And I gotta tell you, I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. If, in fact, you are making changes for the safety of your actors, you think these are good ideas, but you don't want to share that elixir as an industry leader with other places that could benefit from that knowledge. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. And it does seem like there is a stubbornness, that there is an objective to make sure that these great changes that have been made cannot be linked to what happened in January of 2025 in Circus Quixote. I hope I'm wrong and Looking Glass can prove that by coming out and publicly letting us know about the changes you have made and why you made them. Okay. I promised you I would let you know where we are with Ayanna's episodes. I first want to acknowledge that we have been talking in a peripheral sense about what happened to Ayana so that we could have a conversation about the Looking Glass response to our efforts to report the story. So this episode and the previous episode, they do not purport to be the telling of Ayanna's full story. Ayanna's story is a detailed, complex story. And there are many other issues and possible failings that are part of her account of her experience at Looking Glass. So let me just get that out there. But I do want to share this with you. As I said before, during that whole week after the cease and desist came out and people in the community became angry, there were a lot of people associated with Looking Glass reaching out to Ayanna. And that had a tremendous effect, a negative effect on Ayanna's health. And then when there was a public reaction to the safety statement, that also had an effect on her. And I told Ayanna, maybe the most important thing right now is you healing. Ayanna has medical procedures that she is undergoing. I said, your story will always be there. But if it is not the right time now to rehash the details of what happened to you, if that somehow conflicts with what you need right now to heal, I am fine with that. What is important to me is that you do the thing you need to do to heal. And I also said maybe when you talk publicly, maybe you don't want to talk about this because so much has happened since we recorded those episodes. Maybe you want to talk about advocacy. Maybe you want to talk about, based upon your lived experiences, the changes that need to be made to protect the circus community. Because another part of this story is that Actors Equity has been no help, would not give us any information of what kind of protections are in place. And our understanding, based upon what we've heard from the circus community, there are no protections. So this is a really important area that needs to be talked about. And I also told Ayanna, it may be that you just at some point want to get on your own social media and tell your story without all the bells and whistles. This podcast, and we will support you 100%, whatever is best for you. We are behind you all the way. I want to close this out with a reality check for anyone who is running a theater or producing an entertainment. Some of our students who are learning theater administration, you're already working with a deficit. This is based upon what I hear in the industry. When you have a podcast like this, you hear a lot from artists, actors, technicians who work in the industry. I would say that this is the message that they have for you, theaters, employers and producers. They don't trust you. They don't believe that you care about them. They believe you look down on them as being at the bottom of the heap. They think you are more concerned about keeping your jobs than caring about their well being. Now, those are bold assertions and they're probably difficult for a lot of people who work in theaters to hear. But I also know there's a lot of people listening to this podcast right now who are nodding their heads. And I say this in the hope that if you are in administration, that we can educate you to the fact that if you are a theater that is facing a crisis, know that you are working with that deficit. And that means you've got to work three times as hard to overcome that, to gain the trust of the artistic community. One other thing, I think it goes without saying that that gathering with Looking Glass and my participation this summer is not going to happen. Not with me anyway. But if there are other entities out there, other people, not just in Chicago, and you want to have an honest conversation about safety and how do we make our workplaces better in a panel, in a forum, all you have to do is ask me if there is any way I can participate to help you or simply amplify to our followers and listeners the work you are doing. I am here for you because here is the deal. We have to keep talking. We have to keep talking. There's a lot of people that don't want us to keep talking. There's a lot of people in the entertainment industry that don't want us to have these tough conversations. There's a reason I say that at the beginning of every episode because it's true. And in spite of that, we have to keep talking. I don't want you out there to get discouraged. I don't want you to be demoralized. I want you to be more determined than ever to fight because your very life may depend on it. And wouldn't it just be nice if we could go to work and feel safe and protected while making great art? Thank you for listening. And I sincerely say this to Looking Glass Theater. Thank you for listening, as I know you are. I hope there are people within your ranks who will receive some of this information and take it to heart. Because I honestly want you, Looking Glass, to thrive and other theaters like you to thrive. But I want you to thrive in a way that is sustainable for the artists who are giving of themselves to create great art for you. Foreign Let us know what you think about these episodes. About the Looking Glass story send us a DM at Instagram @StageCompatCast, where you can also follow us and comment on our social media or email us@stagecombatthepodcastmail.com A reminder, nothing in this episode should be construed as a substitute for medical advice or legal advice. Please consult with your own medical and legal professionals. Remember, you can hear bonus content at Stage Combat at Patreon. Just follow the link in the show notes. If you believe in the meaningful content we're producing, please support us for just $5 a month and we can produce more episodes for you. And there's no commitment. You can enjoy the bonus content you want to explore for a month or maybe three months or throughout the year. And hey, if you are an existing Patreon member, thank you for making this podcast happen. This podcast was edited by Alex Griffith. Mixing and sound design were by Justin Gerrish. Be sure to hit follow on your podcast platform. You can do it right now so you don't miss a single episode of Stage Combat. I hope today and every day brings you an opportunity to claim your story. Stage Combat is a production of Heywood Productions, llc.