"The War On Artists Under Trump"

Summary

Stage Combat The Podcast

Episode 5, Season 4: "The War On Artists Under Trump"
Release Date: May 25, 2026
Host: Sean Hayden
Guest: Chris Webb, Actor, Director, Professor (Boston Conservatory at Berklee)

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Overview

In this starkly honest and deeply personal episode, host Sean Hayden sits down with longtime friend and fellow artist Chris Webb to grapple with the reality of being an artist in America under Donald Trump’s second term. The episode—recorded in two parts, one in December 2025 and a follow-up in March 2026—tracks the ongoing assault on the arts sector, from historic institution closures to funding cuts and a cultural climate of self-censorship. The conversation shifts between describing these attacks, the psychological impact on creatives, and practical strategies for resilience and integrity—ultimately inviting reflection, community, and new ways to persist as artists facing adversity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context: The War on Artists

• Trump’s second term brings “frightening times” for the arts.
• Major actions:
  • Kennedy Center taken over, renamed after Trump, then shut down—aimed at ending “woke programming” ([01:01]).
  • NEA grants for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) and “gender ideology” ended.
  • Funding slashed, resulting in widespread program cancellations.
  • Atmosphere of self-censorship due to fear of federal scrutiny—even late-night comedians pressured to stay silent.
  • Surge in attacks on marginalized communities within the arts, exacerbating both professional and personal threats.

2. Impact on Artistic Practice & Community

• Chris Webb’s reflection:
  • Artistic work is now “not as daring as it used to be. It feels a little safer…because I think that there is more anxiety around what someone's responses might be” ([04:33]).
  • Self-censorship among artists and directors has become common, a marked difference from a decade ago.
  • “If the thing that we're producing is deemed to be too woke or too DEI, too anti-establishment... then money will go away” ([05:20]).
  • Boston-area companies observed losing funding due to content.
  • Hayden grieves the Kennedy Center’s transition from “a sacred place for the American arts…to a sad, empty political vessel” ([06:16]).

3. Historical Parallels and Why the Arts Are Targeted

• Chris Webb:
  • Calls current events “out of the fascism playbook. I mean, go back to any fascist regime, and the first thing you do is you attack the arts because the arts are the source of resistance…” ([07:48]).
  • Historically, the arts have thrived in hard times—ex: WPA under FDR ([08:17]).

4. Intersectional Attacks: Beyond the Arts

• Hayden & Webb:
  • Attack extends to all marginalized groups: LGBTQ, BIPOC, immigrants, people with disabilities, and women/fem-identifying folks ([08:51]–[09:27]).
  • Example: Reversal of State Dept. accessibility font change as “too woke”—“a really good example of attacking people with disability challenges” ([10:06]).

5. Mental Health and Grieving in the Creative Community

• Reality of Loss: Artists experience “a sense of loss…a loss of identity. It's a loss of self. It's a loss of what was. It's a loss of a promise of something” ([11:08]).
• Chris Webb:
  • “Everyone is feeling the trauma that’s daily inflicted upon us from this government” ([11:25]).
  • Need to acknowledge trauma; recognize grief as valid.

6. Coping Tools and Maintaining Creativity

• Rethinking "resilience"—a word that lost meaning during COVID-19 ([12:19]).
• Agency and Autonomy:
  • Chris: “We have control. We have a choice. We have the choice to choose how we're going to respond to things” ([13:22]).
  • Students, due to development and career stage, struggle more with agency; educators/faculty must help.
  • Practical regulation: Limit news consumption to avoid nervous system overload ([16:00]–[17:24]).
  • Seek out newsletters with headlines only—for agency over what enters your mind.

7. Community and Non-Commercial Creativity

• Sean Hayden:
  • “I've made it a point to regularly attend my acting class...a sense of community is really important as artists right now...a way to practice my art that has nothing to do with getting a job” ([18:57]).
• Chris Webb:
  • Encourages students and artists to find passions outside their artistic profession—“knitting, crocheting, painting…”—to avoid total emotional investment in an unstable career ([20:27]).
  • Notes many alums become sommeliers, seeing a parallel in creative analysis ([21:02]).

8. Navigating Political and Ideological Divides Within the Arts

• Growing realization that the artist community is not a monolith; Trump’s reelection emboldens some to be openly anti-DEI ([22:10]–[23:11]).
• Artistic vulnerability: “What we use to create our art is ourselves…if you are actively working with someone who thinks that you should not exist, how can you be vulnerable?” ([23:11]).
• Limited power (especially for younger artists) to refuse to work with problematic colleagues or walk away ([24:13]–[25:23]).
• Older/more established artists might exercise more choice over collaborations, prioritizing psychological safety.

9. Updates from March 2026: The Situation Worsens

• Post-recording developments:
  • ICE shootings, war in the Middle East.
  • DOJ politicized and discredited.
  • Major industry upheavals: Paramount-Warner Brothers merger, theatre closures (Goodspeed, Williamstown, Pittsburgh), further diminishing opportunities ([29:00]–[30:42]).
• Both speakers emphasize exhaustion and demoralization, questioning how to create under such persistent trauma ([31:46]–[32:57]).
• Chris: “You can’t create out of a negative. You have to create out of a positive. And so how do we do that?” ([32:18]).

10. Permission to Pause and Prioritize Healing

• Hayden’s counsel to a struggling artist:
  • “When you are going through something brutal to take a step back and just say...I don't need to create art right now. I just need to go take care of my soul…” ([33:24]).
  • It's okay to “take a time out right now until I can figure out how I’m going to get back to a place where I can create again” ([34:08]).
• Only you set your creative timeline; support and rest are crucial, especially for those further marginalized ([34:14]).

11. Finding Meaningful Art and Maintaining Humanity

• Take solace in witnessing and absorbing good art—referenced play: Marjorie Prime as restorative ([35:09]).
• Reminder: The administration's goal is to “dehumanize us.” “The trick is that we can’t forget that we’re human” ([35:43]–[36:06]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s a war on artists that’s been going on and will continue to go on.”
  — Chris Webb ([03:57])
• “Nothing’s more emblematic than [Trump’s] takeover of the Kennedy Center…to see what it’s become as a sad, empty political vessel.”
  — Sean Hayden ([06:16])
• “This is out of the fascism playbook… the first thing you do is you attack the arts because the arts are the source of resistance.”
  — Chris Webb ([07:48])
• “I think there’s a grieving aspect of it that we do have to acknowledge…a sense of loss of identity…a loss of a promise of something.”
  — Chris Webb ([11:01])
• “If we believe that things just keep happening to us and we have no control…that goes against our inherent design as humans. We have the choice to choose how we're going to respond to things.”
  — Chris Webb ([13:22])
• “You can’t create out of a negative. You have to create out of a positive. So how do we do that?”
  — Chris Webb ([32:57])
• “It’s also okay for artists to recognize we are under attack… I’m taking a time out right now until I can figure out how I’m going to get back to a place where I can create again.”
  — Sean Hayden ([34:07])
• “The trick is that we can’t forget that we’re human.”
  — Sean Hayden ([35:43])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Framing: 00:04 – 03:35
  (Trump’s policies, attacks on arts, Kennedy Center closure)
• Impact and Fears: 04:08 – 06:36
  (Self-censorship, funding threats, “too woke” content)
• Historical Context: 07:48 – 08:31
  (Fascism and government funding in art)
• Marginalized Communities: 08:43 – 10:16
  (Intersectional impact, disabilities, “woke” attacks)
• Mental Health: 11:01 – 14:15
  (Grief, trauma, agency, mental health strategies)
• Protecting Agency: 16:00 – 17:24
  (News consumption and nervous system regulation)
• Community & Practice: 18:57 – 21:04
  (Continuing acting classes, finding fulfillment outside employment)
• Navigating Division in the Arts: 22:10 – 25:23
  (Political divides, toxic collaborators, personal boundaries)
• Post-December Update: 27:36 – 30:42
  (Industry declines, new crises, merging theaters)
• Exhaustion and Hope: 31:46 – 32:57
  (Deeper fatigue, seeking seeds of hope and transformation)
• Permission to Pause: 33:24 – 34:14
  (Advice to rest, setting your own pace)
• Maintaining Humanity: 35:09 – 36:06
  (Turning to art like Marjorie Prime for solace and remembering humanity)

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is frank, raw, and earnest—refusing to sugarcoat the personal, political, and professional devastation inflicted on the creative sector by the Trump administration. At every turn, both speakers maintain a commitment to both realism and solidarity, offering no easy answers, but instead strategies for self-preservation, creative agency, and the necessity of community. The war on artists isn’t just a financial or institutional crisis; it’s an existential one—requiring honest acknowledgment, mutual support, moments of rest, and continual rediscovery of what makes us essentially human.

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Recommendation:
At several points, both Sean and Chris recommend the play Marjorie Prime by Jordan Harrison as both meaningful art and a meditation on what it means to be human ([35:23]).

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For those feeling lost or discouraged, this episode reminds us: take time to grieve, protect your agency, seek out community, and—above all—don’t forget your humanity.

Transcript

[Chris Webb]

Foreign.

[Sean Hayden]

I'm an attorney, I'm an actor, and I'm an advocate. My name is Sean Hayden. When I was wrongfully fired as an actor from a certain famous theater, I fought back. Suddenly I was a whistleblower. And I told my story true crime style in a podcast. Since then, I've been telling your stories and having the tough conversations that a lot of people in the entertainment we don't want us to have. This is Stage Combat, the podcast. Well, let's get right to it, listeners. We're a year and a half into Trump's second term, and these have been frightening times for so many people in our country. Entertainment workers, artists in particular, have found themselves under attack. Trump took over the Kennedy center in a move the administration called necessary to end woke programming, even renaming the center after Trump himself, and then completely shutting it down. The National Endowment for the Arts was instructed to end grants that focused on dei, that's diversity, equity and inclusion, to also end grants for, quote, gender ideology programs. Not only have these actions caused the cancellation of so many programs in the country, but they've also created an environment of self censorship due to fear of federal scrutiny. We even saw this play out with late night talk shows, with pressure being placed by the administration to silence late night comedians, of all people. As an artist myself, I'm trying to take stock of where we are as an artistic community. And I wanted to reach out to my friend Chris Webb to share that assessment and a conversation about just that. Chris is an actor, a director, and a professor at Boston Conservatory at Berkeley. And you might remember last season, Chris and I created a limited podcast series called Just Acting that's available at Stage Combat at Patreon. I wondered how Chris has been coping with all of this, and I wondered if together we might have some ideas about not only how to cope, but to actually thrive, while also acknowledging the specific challenges that artists are facing as Trumpism has entered into the mainstream. So, a programming note. Chris and I initially recorded this conversation last December when we started work on the new season. And you're going to hear that conversation. As bad as things were in the country then, we had not yet experienced the shootings in Minnesota by ICE and the war in the Middle east, as well as some dramatic struggles with our arts institutions in 2026. So Chris and I regrouped on March 30th to talk again. And you will also hear that conversation as well. I'm Sean Hayden, and you're listening to season four of Stage, the podcast.

[Chris Webb]

This is episode five, the War on Artists under Trump. Hey, Chris. Hey, man. How you doing?

I'm good, Sean. How are you? It's been a while.

Seems like old times.

[Sean Hayden]

Hey, Chris, I wanted to check in

[Chris Webb]

with you since Trump started his second term.

Yeah.

You know, there's. I believe there's a war on artists that. That we have that's been going on and will continue to go on, you know. I mean, you feel the same. Sure.

Yeah. No, I do. And I, you know, I was thinking about this this morning and yesterday and about how, just in terms of the kind of work that my students are doing now versus 10 years ago, and the kind of work that we're doing at my school now versus 10 years ago, and how it's changed.

How so?

I think it's not as daring as it used to be. It feels a little safer because I think that there is more anxiety around what someone's responses might be. And I noticed that within myself, too. Guy directed a play in January and February that was pretty daring in its material and subject matter, and it's in its writing. And I even noticed myself like, okay, well, let's. Let's dial it back just a little bit. Let's not do things the way necessarily that I might have done them 10 years ago or 12 years ago.

Do you think that's related to what's been going on in the country when it comes to the arts?

I feel like it.

How so?

Because I think that. I think that there is a concern among artists of funding, number one, like, if the thing that we're producing is deemed to be too woke or too.

Too dei.

Right. To DEI thing. Yeah. To. To anti establishment, too, you know, liberal. Then. Then money will go away. And I've seen that here in Boston, like, companies are losing their funding.

So, yeah, I think we have to acknowledge exactly what has happened, because memories are short. Right. We're just sort of in this misery. But to forget what actually happened when he came into office.

Right.

Was these executive orders essentially declaring that any kind of DEI was unlawful, which also includes LGBTQ content, and that funds were slashed for a lot of organizations, and that what we saw were art organizations trying to preemptively scale back the ambition of their content. Right. For fear of being flagged.

Yeah.

And then we also just saw productions cancelled all through 2025 in response to an actual funding cut. Right. And then nothing's more emblematic than his takeover of the Kennedy center. Which way back, I was in a Broadway tour of Lightning Piazza, and we stopped at the Kennedy center, and that was such A special time for me to be there, to be at the Kennedy center, which I just held as a. As a sacred place for the American arts, you know, as a venue, and just to see, you know, what it's become as a sad, empty political vessel.

What I do appreciate about that, though, is that as dire as some of us might feel and as anxious as some of us might feel, I do appreciate that, specifically in terms of the Kennedy center, you have artists who are, like, not going to perform there.

Yeah, I'm not going to go there. Can I say something about the why of why this has happened? And maybe this is maybe to address to some people who think, oh, is it really that bad? Did you know I was a history major?

Yeah, I think you said that to me once or twice. Yeah, that's.

Yeah, yeah. And so I'm like, yeah, this is out of the fascism playbook. I mean, go back to any fascist regime, and the first thing you do is you attack the arts because the arts are the source of resistance or a provocative thought or challenging the establishment.

And you also think about, in times of great financial struggle, the arts thrived. I mean, look at the 20s, the teens and 20s here in this country in 1920s and 19 teens when we were in the middle of the Great Depression. And yet also there is this resurgence of art in this country now. There was all government funded art with the WPA because we had a president who actually believed in.

Right.

Great works and investing back into the country. But I don't know, I feel like we could swing that way again.

[Sean Hayden]

I hope so, Chris.

[Chris Webb]

I also want to acknowledge that these

[Sean Hayden]

have not just been attacks on the arts. There have been relentless attacks on any

[Chris Webb]

person from a marginalized community. That's a big population of artists that we all work with on a daily basis, whether it's part of the LGBTQ community.

[Sean Hayden]

Definitely the trans community, black people, anyone of color, immigrants. And so you have people trying to create art while their basic right to exist is being challenged on a daily basis by this government.

[Chris Webb]

I would go even further and say it's folks with both documented and undocumented disabilities.

Yeah, absolutely.

Are also being targeted. And then people fem identifying an AFAB population are also being targeted as well.

I recall most people will not remember this because this was just like a footnote last year, but the State Department, apparently, under Biden, had changed the font. We're talking about a small thing.

Oh, I remember this. No, I remember reading about this.

Yeah, the font that change it from Times Roman to a font that is Easier for people with autism, vision challenges, dyslexia to read.

Yep.

And then Rubio decided, we're not going to do that because that's too woke. So that's a really good example of attacking people with disability challenges.

I remember reading that and thinking, like, come on, you have nothing else to do.

[Sean Hayden]

I think that there is.

[Chris Webb]

If we're kind of asking ourselves, how do we. Well, first of all, acknowledge what has been happening to the arts and to artists, but how are we going to deal with it and how are we dealing with it? And I think a really valid part of that, and we're not mental health professionals, but I think there's a grieving aspect of it that we do have to acknowledge.

Yeah.

Because there is a sense of loss that so many people have felt over the past year. Plus. What do you think?

Yeah, no, I think you're right. And I think that it's. It's a loss of identity. It's a loss of self. It's a loss of what was. It's a loss of a promise of something. It's a. Be that stability or education or employment, you know?

You know, it's an interesting thing because I have. I'm very open about mental health. I have a psychiatrist that I talk to an hour every month just for maintenance. And what he said to me, he says he was talking to, you know, another doctor, and they both acknowledged that there's not one session where someone says, I'm doing pretty well today. Like, it is across the board, that everyone is feeling the trauma that's daily inflicted upon us from this government. I mean, my first thought is, like, acknowledging it first, as with anything, is a big key. But then how do we find the gumption, the spirit, to keep creating in the face of such adversity? I mean, that's always been a big question for artists across time. Right.

Yeah. So I remember in 2020 and in 2021, we kept being told as faculty that we have to be resilient and our students are resilient. And this word resilience kept being spoken to us.

Did that help?

No, no, no, no. Because it didn't take into consideration at all what anyone's actual lived experience was. And it was like. It just felt like a talking point. And like, we have to pivot and be resilient. Pivot and be resilient. Pivot and be resilient. So I think that it depends on where you are in your career and where you are in your life, how to navigate this. And I think that, like, for Me, where I'm at in my life and in my career, I feel that. I mean, I still struggle with this, and I still have challenges with this. I'm still in conversation with this with myself, but I feel that there are tools that I have in place that I can help to navigate it.

Like what?

Okay, so one of the things that I teach is that movement exists outside of us, all around us, and that we choose how we're going to respond to an external stimuli, and that everything is about choice. I mean, that's the thing that separates us from animals, right? Like, we have free will and we have free won't. This idea that, like, if we believe that things just keep happening to us and we have no control, then that goes against actually, our inherent design as humans. We have control. We have a choice. We have the choice to choose how we're going to respond to things. And so is this.

I mean, we're talking about agency, right? Trying to put agency into a situation where we feel like we have none, which is something we're always talking about in this podcast.

Agency and autonomy. Absolutely. For me, as someone who's 48 years old, like, I understand that that took a long time for me to. For me to understand, and I struggle with it still. But that's a piece that I can start that I actively choose to use in my life as a way to navigate things. Now, I think that if you're talking about my students, my students who are 18 to 21, 22, all undergrads, like, they struggle with things like that because they don't necessarily feel that they have agency because of where they are in their development, not just, like, the fact that they are at school, but even their cerebral cortex isn't fully formed until we've just now learned you're 32. 32 is when you exit adolescence, right? So things are still forming in your brain and your nervous system, so they need more help. And so oftentimes we have to, as I think as theater faculty, we have to be more mindful of who these students are, what they've gone through, how they've been raised, how they've been educated, what those educational experiences have been that have brought them now to this institution, and I'll speak for our institution that is charging them $300,000 over four years to enter a field where they are going to be lucky if they make a quarter of that in their first year. So that's a thing that we have to be mindful of because they don't have those tools in place and so we have to help them figure out. How do you do that?

Yeah. Let me give you an example of what I had to learn to do. I've had to learn to regulate my nervous system. And I realized that because I've always been a news junkie, that reading the news and the headlines, you know, because I was a history political science major, was not good for my nervous system. But I also recognize it's not good to have blinders onto what's going on. So I'm very intentional about what I allow to go into my nervous system. So that means the number of times in a day that I will look at a news site, or it means I will just skim the headlines and not go into the articles unless it's something I feel like I absolutely need to see. Because I recognize that intentionally this government is trolling its population to traumatize it so that we become desensitized to what is going on. So I don't need to know this new insult that the President has called someone. I already know it's going to be horrible. I already know someone's going to say it's beyond the pale that he's reached a new low. I don't need to see that. But if there's a decision going up before the Supreme Court about the status of LGBTQ rights, I'm going to read that because I need to know what's going on. But that's been very helpful to me.

Yeah, I agree 100%. You know, in the mornings, I will read the skim newsletter that I get in my inbox every morning, which just, like, literally skims through headlines. It's a great newsletter. And then I'll read my New York Times again newsletter that I get every day. What I love about that is that there'll be, like, one big story that's like the story of the day, and then there'll be, like, little blurbs with links to other things. So then I get to choose, like, oh, do I want to go read about some rambling speech that he made, maybe? And then I do, and then I'll start to read it. I'm like, no, I don't need this. Let me go back and play wordle.

I like that about the newsletter because it gives you a little more agency and a little more distance. But then, oh, there's a great recipe for making, you know, gingerbread. So I'm going to go look at that because that's going to be good for my soul and just make me feel good because, you know, Right. So, Chris, I think a byproduct of this attack on artists is that there's less work. And also the consolidation of Hollywood, the studios, which the government has played a part of, that, you know, there is less work. And as an artist, it's distressing because, you know, when we create, we are made whole. You know, we extend our spirits and our soul. I'll tell you what I do, and then you can tell me.

Okay, go for it.

I'm not auditioning, but I have made it a point to regularly attend my acting class because I'm working on Doubt right now. So tonight I have to go do a scene from Doubt, but there's a sense of community, and I think community is really important as artists right now. And it is also a way to practice my art. That has nothing to do with getting a job. So it's all about the art and the community, and I have found that very valuable to kind of keep me regulated. What do you think about that?

I love that. I love that for you. And I love that even more because on our podcast, Just Acting, that you can listen to on the Patreon for Stage Combat, the podcast, you know, we got to talk to Scott. Yeah, we did. Your acting teacher, and I really appreciate everything that he had to say about how he teaches in this methodology of teaching. And it feels like that is a great community for you to be a part of that is supportive and is challenging and does stretch you without that added thing of I need to keep doing this in order to make rent or to pay my bills or like, that kind of financial pressure, which is where the art and the business kind of collide in this industry. I tell my students all the time, you have to find something outside of this that feeds you. You have to find something that it. So that your. All of your energy does not just go towards this.

If you're an actor acting or dancer dancing, you're talking about finding something, maybe another way to express yourself, finding something else. Like, it could be knitting, right? It could be.

It could be knitting, crocheting, painting, reading,

you know, running marathons.

Running. Running marathons.

Cooking a passion, something you're passionate about.

I mean, you know, Sean, we have a. We have a lot. We have a. I don't know. It's a lot, but more than I would think of alums from the Boston Conservatory at Berkeley who have gone on to become sommeliers.

Really?

Yeah.

Why do you think that is?

Well, I think that there is an artistry to it. It is not dissimilar. To script analysis and to character creation, where you are trying to understand the whys and wherefores and ins and outs of how these different wines are and how they pair and how they taste and how they age. That is really no different from the kind of investigation that we do as actors and directors and musicians on, well, why do I sing this? Why do I say this? What is this? What is the story happening here? It's in a different medium. But I think that what is important is you have to find something so that when you are feeling disheartened or disillusioned or at sea, for lack of a better term, in this industry, in theater or film and tv, that you have something else that is independent of this, that can help you, that you. Where you can express yourself, where you can put your energies, that can refill your cup so then you can come back to this.

So important. I love all of that, Chris. I think a byproduct of the reelection of Trump and the MAGA movement, and let's face it, you know, half the electorate put him into office. And I think we're naive to think that we, as a community of artists are a monolith and thought and values. And so, you know, people on that other side have become more emboldened. You know, it used to be a dirty secret that you had to keep, but as it's become apparent, there is a sizable part of this population that says, yeah, I'm for that. And so I become aware that we have to recognize that we may be working with people in the arts who are not our allies, who do not share the same values when it comes to, oh, I don't know. Humanity, decency. No.

And I think that that is really difficult because what we do as artists is inherently vulnerable. And I think, particularly for, like, I think any art and any artist is vulnerable when you're talking about actors, when you're talking about singers, when you're talking about dancers, as opposed to a musician or a painter or a sculptor or an illustrator or a potter. Our instrument is ourselves. What we use to create our art is ourselves. It's our bodies and our voice. And so in order to use our instrument and to tell these stories, we have to be vulnerable with someone else, with someone else, and with ourselves. And I think if you're in a situation where you are actively working with someone who thinks that you should not exist, how can you be vulnerable?

Yeah. And how many of us really have the power to say, I'm not going to work with that person? I mean, Look, Laura Benanti, you remember when she came out against these horrible things Zachary Levi said about the wonderful Gavin Creel and made it political and about his death being related to the coronavirus and all that, and she just came out and said, you, Zachary Levi. I mean, she literally said that. But we're not all Laura Benanti, you know, so she could choose not to work with Zachary Levi again, as she did when she did. What was it? She loves me. But if we get cast in the show and then, you know, you're in the show and then things start to come out, how do you deal with that? I don't have an answer for that. It's tough.

It is tough, and I think it's harder when you're in a younger place in your career. Yeah, I mean, I know personally, for me, like, I stepped away from acting 10 years ago, and this spring is, you know, in May, I am doing my first show in 10 years. Hey, love that. Yeah, it's very exciting. I hope I remember how to memorize.

And it's like riding a bike.

I'm only kind of joking. And I agreed to this show because it's a show that I. It's a new play. It's a play that was kind of written for me and another actor. We have both been workshopping this play for, I think, 12 years, 13 years, doing readings of it. But, like, I know the other actor that I primarily interface with, and I trust them implicitly. I know the writer and have worked with him, and he believes in me, and I believe in him. I know the director and I believe in him, and he believes in me. He's a really great friend. And I think as you get older in your career, you start to realize, okay, maybe I don't have to do this play. Maybe I don't have to do this project. Maybe I, like, there are people who, at this point in my career, I don't want to be in a room with.

Well, look, maybe if you had a chance to audition for a big show headlined by someone who has made their views sort of known and it's problematic, maybe you don't go out for that call, you know? Yeah.

And you have to make that choice

and you go out for something else, it might be a matter of that. But, yeah, it might.

Okay.

No easy answers on that. But I do think, Chris, this has been a good conversation for me and to reconnect with you, my friend. But I think, I hope people take away just how powerful we are as artists, and that's why they're so afraid of us. And so it is really important that we find our power and we find a place to keep creating for the greater good, but also for ourselves.

Agreed? Agreed.

Foreign. Hey, Chris, my man. We're back. It's March 30, 2026. Holy right.

It. It has been. It's. It's. Yeah, it's been. It's been a. It's been a thing.

I mean, we recorded that mid December, so in three and a half months, like, think when we acknowledge things were bad then.

Right, Right.

But I just think we need to be honest. I know we're always trying to. You as an educator, me as an advocate and a podcaster. We want to have honest conversations, but we also try to put, you know, the positive out there. But I think we just have to be honest what we're both feeling right now. And I'm. It's not good. It's not good, man.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I. We had this thing last week at school where some alumni came back to give a panel, and one of them said that right now the industry, especially Broadway, is. Is in pretty rough shape. And the idea of

that.

It's got a lot of lessons that needs to be. Need to be learned about how we're doing things and how to do things and how to survive and. And what actually matters and is important. And. And that's a. That's a tough thing right now, I think, especially given the political and economic climate that we are all navigating right now.

Yeah. I think there's two things happening, and they are related, and some of it may not be related, but it's how much worse things have gotten. Because when we talked last time, we did not have the shootings in Minnesota that had not happened yet. It was horrible enough what ICE was doing.

Right.

And we certainly didn't have the acceleration on the Epstein files. And. And that should show with the Department of Justice. I can't even say Department of Justice, with a straight face as a lawyer, because I'm so ashamed of what that has become.

Right.

And then now we're in a war in the Middle East.

[Sean Hayden]

So there's that, Chris.

[Chris Webb]

And then there's the thing we talked about also in December was how bad shape the industry was in and the lack of opportunity.

Yeah, it's gotten worse.

Yeah. I mean, we did not have, when we talked last time, the Paramount merger with Warner Brothers, which is going to drastically cut down opportunities in film and tv, not to mention what that's going to do in terms of what kind of content you can produce. Because look what happened with cbs, which is owned by Paramount, Right? And then look at what's happened with the theaters since we talked about our old favorite, the Goodspeed Opera House. So they're not producing at the Terrace Theater, which is where their new works are produced. So that's still under the leadership of Donalyn Hilton Williamstown. Williamstown, which has had its own history of problematic work conditions, is not producing this summer. You've got two major theaters in Pittsburgh that are having to merge to survive.

[Sean Hayden]

And like you said with Broadway.

[Chris Webb]

Yeah, it's hard out there. I mean, I look at my students, and I'm like, this is not the world that we wanted to give you. And I look at my kids, and I think, that, too, like, this is not the world I wanted to give you.

And I wonder how many people just feel. Because this is what they want. So exhausted by the trauma inflicted every day by the government that you don't want to create art anymore. I don't know how it looked. Ian's writing on two animated theatrical releases for two major studios. I don't know how the hell he gets up every day and tries to write clever, funny, animated stuff with. When you look out your window, what's going on out there? So you brought up in December the idea that great work can come out of challenging times and what happened, you know, after the Depression. Do you still feel that way today?

The great work can come out of

hard times or that it will come out of all of this.

I mean, I am. You've known me long enough, Sean, to know that I'm a. I'm a genuinely

hopeful person, and I'm a genuinely cynical person. So we're perfect together.

Well, that's. That's. Yes. And so I do believe that that is possible, but I think it's going to take a hell of a lot of hard work and a lot of courage on the part of artists to do the work, even when it feels helpless and hopeless to keep going. And, God, I mean, I am so tired. And I know that. And, like, it can be really demoralizing to be an artist. How do we continue to do what we do from a place that. Because I don't think any kind of creation can come from a place of. You can't create out of a negative. You have to create out of a positive. And so how do we do that? And how do we. In the face of negativity and in the face of this monolith, how do we create life?

I talked To a nice young man. He's an actor who had reached out to me, like people will do sometimes because of the podcast, just to share. He had a horrible experience. He was hired as a lead in a. A non union tour and then they fired him two weeks later. Just a brutal, brutal experience to go through. But what I said to him, you know, I'm not a therapist or anything,

[Sean Hayden]

but just saying, you know, it's okay

[Chris Webb]

when you are going through something brutal to take a step back and just say, you know what? I don't need to create art right now. I just need to go take care of my soul and I'm going to

[Sean Hayden]

come back to it.

[Chris Webb]

Don't feel like you feel like got to keep putting yourself out there. You need to heal from this. It's not exactly the same thing with

[Sean Hayden]

what's going on, because this is going

[Chris Webb]

on daily and it will continue to go on daily. But I think it's also okay for artists to recognize we are under attack, which is what this episode has been about. And I'm taking a time out right now until I can figure out how

[Sean Hayden]

I'm going to get back to a

[Chris Webb]

place where I can create again. And that makes me happy. What do you think about that?

I think no one sets your timeline except for you. And I think that that is a difficult thing to learn as a young artist because I feel like we constantly are reinforced with this idea of, you have to go, go, go, go, go. Right. But, you know, there's that saying, like, wisdom for me won't come to me. And I don't know, I. There is this weird thing of we are.

We.

We create on our own timeline and we set that for ourselves.

Yeah. I think in these challenging times, artists have to ask themselves what is right for me right now.

Yeah.

And then, you know, get all the support you can get because everyone's going through it. Some people are experiencing it in a more traumatic way because perhaps they are from a marginalized community and other factors.

And there is good art out there that you can take in like there is, then that can help feed you too. If. If you're not. If you're not able to actually practice it, There is stuff out there that can feed your soul that you can see.

Well, I think that's really important, too. It's not playing anymore, but I know this past season when I went to see Marjorie prime on Broadway, that fed my soul. I thought about that play for days. In fact, maybe everyone should read that play because it reminds you about what it means.

[Sean Hayden]

To be human.

[Chris Webb]

And what we're going through, Chris, is administration trying to dehumanize us? I'm going to go find a copy of it and read it again because I think the. The trick is that we can't forget that we're human. That's what I've got today, cuz.

Life will remind you real quick.

Yeah. All right, my man. I appreciate you so much. Keep fighting the fight.

Take care, my friend.

[Sean Hayden]

Coming up on the next episode of Stage Combat, the podcast, season four. With one in seven people living with an invisible disability, we're looking at the invisible disability of hearing loss, which can affect up to 50 million Americans every day. We'll be sharing the incredible story of Marianne Galloway, an actor who cannot hear consonants. She only hears vows. And we'll hear how Marianne struggled to find her place in the world as a working actor.

[Marianne Galloway]

I had worked on a production that was a partnership with a prominent deaf theater and another prominent regional theater. And that sign language lady Linda from

[Chris Webb]

Sesame street, the one we were talking about.

Right.

[Marianne Galloway]

The one that I had grown up thinking the world of was actually in that production. And she just looked at me and was like, you're very lucky to be here. Meaning I was very lucky to get the job that I had because it was a deaf production.

[Sean Hayden]

So she meant that in a good way.

[Chris Webb]

Yes. That you were lucky to be there. No, she did not.

[Marianne Galloway]

She meant that my position should have been given to a capital D, deaf person.

[Chris Webb]

Marianne, what did that feel like, to have your TV hero tell you that?

[Marianne Galloway]

It was like, I'm not gonna cry right now.

[Sean Hayden]

It still hurts.

[Chris Webb]

Oh. Oh.

That will hurt my entire life.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah.

[Marianne Galloway]

It was devastating because it's the feeling

[Sean Hayden]

of never really belonging in a particular group because there's such a spectrum of hearing loss.

[Marianne Galloway]

Right.

[Sean Hayden]

Among individuals.

[Chris Webb]

Right. So.

Right, right.

[Sean Hayden]

Plus, I'll be unmasking for the first time, my own invisible disability with you.

[Chris Webb]

But this is where I have to come clean with the listeners. And you've never talked about this before? I've never told the listeners this.

[Sean Hayden]

That's coming up on our next episode, the way that I hear you. Let us know what you think about my conversations with Chris Webb. What's on your mind after hearing this episode? You might not agree with everything we had to say, and that's okay. Just let us hear from you. You can send us a DM at Instagram Tage Combat, the podcast ig, where you can also follow us and comment on our social media or email [e-mail] and I do recommend reading the play Marjorie prime by Jordan Harrison. Just a reminder, nothing in this episode should be considered a substitute for medical advice, so please consult with your own medical professionals. Did you know? You can hear bonus content and more of my conversation with Chris Webb plus insider information about this episode at Stage Combat at Patreon. Just follow the link in the show notes. If you believe in the meaningful content we are producing, you can support us for just $5 a month so we can produce more episodes for you and there's no commitment. You can enjoy the bonus content you want to explore for a month or maybe three months or throughout the year. And if you are an existing Patreon member, thank you for making this podcast happen. This episode was edited by Alex Griffith. Mixing and sound design were by Justin Gerrish. This episode was written and directed by me, Sean Hayden for Heywood Productions, llc. Be sure to hit follow on your podcast platform. Do it right now so you don't miss a single episode of Stage Combat. And while you're there, why not rate us five stars and leave a review to let others know what this podcast means to you. Until then, I hope today and every day brings you an opportunity to claim your story. Stage Combat is a production of Heywood Productions llc.