BONUS: Geese & Chaotic Good (w/ Tom Scharpling)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Staying Alive with Jon Gabrus & Adam Pally

BONUS: Geese & Chaotic Good (w/ Tom Scharpling)

Release Date: May 19, 2026
Produced by: SmartLess Media
Guests: Devin Tory Bryant (featured extensively), Tom Scharpling (not present in transcripted discussion)

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Jon Gabrus and Adam Pally, joined by producer Devin Tory Bryant, dive deep into the world of manufactured hype in music, the evolution of media promotion, the erosion (and potential return) of taste-makers, and how changing technology affects genuine fandom. Using the indie band Geese as a jumping-off point, the conversation weaves through music industry history, digital marketing tactics, and the desire for authentic connection in art and entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Geese" Controversy: Manufactured Hype and Digital Payola

• Timestamps: 01:15 – 04:10
• Context: Conversation begins with the viral rise of the band Geese, attributed in part to “chaotic good marketing” — namely, the creation of fake accounts to simulate enthusiasm for their live shows.
• Discussion Highlights:
  • Fake Hype as Modern Payola: The group compares this to the payola scandals of the past, noting that while the methods have changed (envelope of cash vs. social media bots), the intent is the same: to manufacture buzz and attention.
  • Adam Pally on the ethics: "Well, it's not illegal, but it should be frowned upon. We should bring back, like, a little bit of shame in the world… Not saying you have to be excommunicated, but, like, a little shame should come back for stuff." (03:00)
  • Devin Tory Bryant: "It's a version of fake it till you make it... They created a fake version of hype and then real people see the fake version, and then the hype is real, because real people... But it started off with a lie. When you say, when you create fake accounts..." (02:28)
  • Even if Geese “back it up” with legitimate artistry, the precariousness of leveraging these tools is acknowledged, especially as AI and more advanced manipulation enter the equation.

2. From Hype to Authenticity: Can Good Art Rise Without Gimmicks?

• Timestamps: 04:10 – 07:18
• Insight: The discussion questions whether faking hype is justifiable if the underlying product (the band) is actually great. The concern: these tactics pave the way for more egregious uses in other areas (e.g., political misinformation, AI-generated pop stars).
• Memorable Analogy: Devin: "It's like Pinocchio... it becomes a real boy... but it was not real to begin with." (03:23)
• Adam: "It just feels like a tool... and we know this tool is going to be used for millions of other things." (07:07)

3. Media Consumption Shifts: The Rise and Fragmentation of Fandoms

• Timestamps: 07:18 – 09:51
• Key Points:
  • Streaming and social media have flattened distinctions between major and indie content, creating a “solid middle class” of artists (06:27).
  • Devin: "You want to just get paid for the thing you do. You're not looking to be, you know, Joe Rogan... You don't have to go full Smartless... you can go half Smartless." (06:40)
  • Clip-driven marketing creates “fool’s gold” engagement: viral podcast clips often don’t translate into actual listeners (09:17).
  • Adam: "I get hundreds of clips in my Instagram feed of, like, podcasts that I've never even heard of. But I'll be like, this has 1.7 million likes on it… Diary of a CEO or some shit." (10:05)

4. Tangibility & Connection: The Return of Physical Media

• Timestamps: 11:49 – 15:28
• Discussion:
  • The group references Jimmy Iovine’s comments on streaming obsolescence and the renewed desire for physical media (vinyl, CDs, Blu-Rays) as markers of true fandom.
  • John: “People want to hold the record, have the record, put it on if their Internet goes out... these streaming services are becoming like white noise, like the radio to a certain extent.” (12:38)
  • They compare fan identity and exclusivity in owning physical music/podcasts to Patreon/OnlyFans models in the creator economy.
  • Devin: "Kids want... a thing they can hold... and not this, like, ephemeral fandom that can just fade as quickly as it showed up." (15:16)

5. Live Experience, Community, and Shared Enthusiasm

• Timestamps: 15:28 – 17:16
• Examples are drawn from live concerts and live podcasts — actually being with people creates real connection and belonging.
• Adam: "That's like the live podcast element... people want to be in the crowd with their fellow doughboys... to see people who are into your thing, and then you just don't feel alone. The world is, like, geared to make people feel alone unless you do work to fight against that." (16:38)

6. Curation, Taste-Makers, and the Death (and Possible Return) of Discovery

• Timestamps: 17:16 – 23:34
• The hosts lament the loss of gatekeepers (record/video store clerks, labels, curated TV channels), replaced by algorithmic “flattening” from streaming giants—everything, everywhere, all at once leaves users paralyzed by choice.
• Adam: “I think about this all the time. Like the video store clerk... hey, I love this movie. Oh, you like this? You should definitely try this or this. Those are the people… the society I want is like, the experts.” (21:03)
• There’s hope that specialized stores and venues (Amoeba, Zebulon, genre streamer services) restore some authentic discovery.

7. Flattening of the Media Landscape: Are We All ‘Equal’ Now?

• Timestamps: 23:34 – 24:44
• Adam: wonders if digital platforms (iPad “next to Stranger Things”) have erased distinctions between indie and major, both for better and for worse. Now, niches can thrive, but it also means the traditional gatekeeper’s authority is diluted.
• John: "Every small town in America had a record store with a guy behind the counter that could show you stuff. It’s gone."

8. Corporate Overlords and the Potential for Change

• Timestamps: 24:44 – 28:55
• The role of corporate consolidation in eroding diversity of offerings and the rise of direct artist-to-fan relationships through subscriber/fan platforms (Patreon, OnlyFans, GoFundMe) is discussed.
• Adam: "Some people are like, well, why do I need a record label if I can sell a thousand records?... we live off of 6,000 subscribers... because they're willing to support us directly, the show can continue." (27:35)
• Subscription inflation, lack of original content, and speculation about a potential market correction (stock market) as possible paths to renewed diversity and independence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Devin Tory Bryant (on digital hype):
  "It's like Pinocchio, in a way. It becomes a real boy... but it was not real to begin with." (03:23)
• Adam Pally (on the need for healthy shame):
  "We should bring back, like, a little bit of shame in the world... I'm not saying they have to be excommunicated, but, like, a little shame should come back for stuff." (03:00)
• John Gabris (on curated experiences):
  "Humans have never, never, ever been, like, taking anyone's word for it... every small town in America had a record store with a guy behind the counter that could show you stuff. It's gone." (23:15)
• Adam Pally (on economic realities for creators):
  "Some people are like, well, why do I need a record label if I can sell a thousand records?... the show can continue." (27:35)
• Devin Tory Bryant (on nostalgia for curation):
  "Person who would just be like, don't buy that. You want this. Yes, exactly… you like that? Do you know this? And then you're just off to the races." (23:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:15 – 04:10: Geese, fake hype, and ethics in marketing
• 06:27 – 10:31: “Solid middle class” in creative industries; pitfalls of engagement vs. real fans
• 11:49 – 15:28: Physical media returns, fan identity, band merch
• 15:28 – 17:16: Live events, communal connection, isolation through tech
• 17:16 – 23:34: Curation, loss of gatekeepers, algorithmic overload
• 24:44 – 28:55: Corporate consolidation, direct artist/fan relationships, hope for new business models

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Summary

This bonus episode stands out for its candid, critical, and often nostalgic examination of authenticity in the modern media world. Using the case of indie band Geese’s creative (or questionable) marketing as a springboard, Jon, Adam, and Devin unpack how the pursuit of attention has always required some sleight of hand, but technology has supercharged and complicated the game. They mourn the loss of human curation, praise the resurgence of tangible fandom (vinyl, CDs, Blu-Rays), and root for artists finding sustainable, direct-to-fan success outside of the corporate sludge. The hosts’ camaraderie brings warmth and irreverence, even as they wrestle with big cultural questions—a comfort for anyone feeling lost in the algorithmic shuffle.

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For listeners interested in a reflective, funny, and incisive take on the intersection of art, commerce, and culture, this bonus episode of “Staying Alive” is essential. You’ll walk away thinking as much about the importance of your local record store as you will the ethics of TikTok hype engines.

Transcript

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[Adam Pally]

Bonus clip.

[John Gabris]

What do you think about the geese? The geese.

[Commercial Announcer]

Chaotic.

[Adam Pally]

Good marketing.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I mean look, is, is. I feel like it sucks that that's what it takes now for.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

For that. That's the kind of thing that a band would have to do to get any attention out of just to go from like nothing to something.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I mean I don't blame. They didn't cheat.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

They certainly. It's like, it's like they're counting cards a little bit.

[Adam Pally]

You know what I mean? I guess it's legal. But I have to throw you out of the casino.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It's not great. I mean it's certainly not great.

[Adam Pally]

I am going to put your head in a vise downstairs.

[John Gabris]

Can you explain it to me a little? Because I guess I don't see. See what the. Like there's always. Because I like, I like the record. I like. Yes.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Like New York band.

[John Gabris]

I'm like, oh. Like I'm full on the. The ride.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I, I think, I think it's. I think they're great.

[John Gabris]

So I'm like, I guess I'm like didn't they always do that? Like didn't people. Labels always. Payola forever pay the radio stations to

[Devin Tory Bryant]

like it changes shape with the, with the technology, that stuff. Whether it's a guy walking into a radio station with an envelope. Like back in the 50s these guys

[Adam Pally]

are called the wonders.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

But it's like now it's just people faking the enthusiasm. It's like fake it. It's a version of fake it till you make it. Like they created a fake version of Hype and then real people see the fake version, and then the hype is real, because real people. But they started it off. It started off with a lie. When you say, when you create fake accounts, right?

[John Gabris]

It's like, fake a bot. Like, creating a bot to do anything is kind of like the line.

[Adam Pally]

Well, it's not illegal, but it should be frowned upon. Yeah, we should make this brings into my whole, like, let's bring back, like, a little bit of shame in the world. Like, yeah, like. Like, let's shame people. Like, some people should just get a little shame. I'm not saying they have to be excommunicated from society, but, like, a little shame should come back for stuff. Like, yeah, you should feel a little bad getting caught doing.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Because if you create these accounts that aren't real and they're saying, like, Geese is one of the best live shows I've ever seen. And there's like. And there's hundreds of them doing it. There is a cumulative effect where people are just like, well, what's this, like, this geese live thing? And then. Then it's like. It's like Pinocchio, in a way. It becomes a real boy in the. Like, once it starts moving. But it was not real to begin with. Yeah, exactly. It was based.

[John Gabris]

No, but like.

[Adam Pally]

And this is someone that. This is like a band that backed it up.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

And this is real.

[John Gabris]

They're a good band that.

[Adam Pally]

By all. But there's only a matter of time where there's like an AI Pop Star.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

See, that's. Well, I mean, that's happening now.

[Adam Pally]

I mean, that gets. Gets Geese.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like, Marty's. Like, how do we know it's not happening in movies? I mean, don't they work in movies and tv, too?

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Like, I mean, they just throw everything against the wall with. So when the. When the real money is on the line, it's just like.

[John Gabris]

Like, I'm sure that. That Marty supreme is, like, got like, thousands of bots being like.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I mean, I don't know. I just know with that. It was like. I was just. Actually, I was really impressed by when it was like. It was like Christmas Day and then the NBA games were just like. Like, there was like, Timothee Chalamet, like, was like the character running through the games.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Like, and you're just like, well, this is, like, crossed over. And I think that's amazing because that's, like. If you take a step back, that is like an incredibly weird movie.

[John Gabris]

Yes.

[Adam Pally]

That.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It's not a conventional movie by any Stretch and they through. Through Chalamet, selling it and through the. Just getting reviews and all stuff, it just, like, transcended its weirdness and reached, like, real people. And I just think that was on

[Adam Pally]

top of the fucking sphere.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah, it's like, stuff like that. It's like. Because there's a version of things where, like, nobody sees that movie.

[John Gabris]

Well, yeah, but I know, right?

[Adam Pally]

Because, like, I mean, there's, like, a million great bands that no one ever gets. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

Like, especially in the last, like, 30 years when, like, you know, guitar music has, like, really, you know, like, rock. And there hasn't been, like, a really good American rock band in a long time.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I mean, it's just not in. It's not, like, in favor of. In terms of what labels are pushing and with stuff like that. But people want it still. But now everything's so shattered now. Anyway. There's, like. It used to be, like, the music industry had their equivalent of how there were three channels on TV. That was like, how the Eagles would sell 25 million copies of an album. And it's like, Nobody's gonna sell 25 million copies of anything ever again. But more people are in the mix overall to where there can be. I think, at its best, there can be, like, a solid middle class where people can carve out a living from their art.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

And they're not gonna. Maybe they won't be insanely wealthy like that. Maybe those people, you can count on one hand how many get to that place. But if there can just be, like, a healthy middle class. And it's the same thing with, like, podcasts.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Just, like, just. You want to make. You want to just get paid for the thing you do. You're not looking to be, you know, Joe Rogan with this stuff and need to just, like, the ridiculous paycheck because.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, I don't have to go full smart list.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

You don't have to go full smart list. You can go half smart list.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, you go smart.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, try smart.

[John Gabris]

Try smart. Yeah. How about we try smart before we start smart less.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah, it's like.

[Adam Pally]

Well, it just feels like it's a tool that if it's being used to promote geese, doesn't feel. So. It feels a little harmless. But we know this tool is going to be used for millions of other things.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. For, like, the war in Iraq.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, to get us to believe, like, there's a big thing amongst Twitch streamers right now because there's, like, these clip farms that just, like. There's, like, you pay a. A person or a. An entity and they chop up your podcast episode, your video put, put it out everywhere, get it sent everywhere. Hundreds of like blue checks on Twitter are like sharply on. Smart on. On staying live says this sharply. And also that clips like 100 and you're like, this is not even really anything. And then the next day there's another clip. And now all of a sudden, like you click on it. It's in your algorithm now you're getting staying alive clip after Staying alive clip and you're like, oh, that feels inauthentic. But again, it's to promote a podcast when all of a sudden like that it's advertising it for kids or for politics and shit. It's like where it starts to get

[John Gabris]

really dicey, you know, Isn't that all advertising throughout all time?

[Adam Pally]

For sure. It used to be illegal to advertise to kids, right?

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Like, yeah, that was an 80s, right? The. Everything got lifted on that and suddenly you could advertise. You could have commercials for, for. You could have shows based on toys and they were just like, there was. The line got erased for that suddenly like G.I. joe. You could. There would be TV shows based on

[John Gabris]

toys and then that was mostly patriotic.

[Ad Council Announcer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Pally]

GI Joe and Transformers were 22 minute

[John Gabris]

commercials for their tour for the US Army. And the US Army.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, but the thing with that podcast thing you're talking about, when they run those things on social media and stuff and it's like, it's like the thing is sometimes people only know you for the 30 second clip and they never go check your show out. And that's the huge fool's gold part of that is that it's just like all people know is, oh, I saw. And I get it when people come, oh my God, that thing you did on the show.

[Adam Pally]

And I just, you know, it's insane.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I just know they got it from the clip. They didn't hear the show. I know when somebody heard the show and they said, oh, that thing you did on the show is great, you know, or whatever. And just like. And then somebody also mentioned, oh, you had so and so on and thing. And they just mentioned them the clipped moment, but they're not taking a step through the door to actually listen to the episode is what the actual goal is, right? Not to just get people. Not like awareness only gets you so far with that stuff. That's just like, it's like a trick because you're not actually getting anywhere. But you think you are because at

[Adam Pally]

some point you're gonna have to listen to geese.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Well, that. And if either you're in or you're out with it. But just like, you see these podcast things, all this engagement and stuff, but then they're not going and checking the show out.

[Adam Pally]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Well, then it's. You're. It's not worth it.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, I get like, hundreds of clips in my Instagram feed of, like, podcasts that I've never even heard of. And. But I'll be like, this has 1.7 million likes on it. Diary of a CEO or some shit. What the is this, dog? I mean, well, and I, I. You hear it from people all the time of like, man, I love action boys. You guys are. That was really funny. I'm like, we are a Patreon podcast.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It's always the. When somebody says, oh, my God, huge fan of the show. Huge fan of show. So do you, like, when are you ever thinking you'd start doing it again? It's like, I do it every week. Yeah, like, you're just out of, like, you think I stopped? It's like, well, that's not good.

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[Adam Pally]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[John Gabris]

Oh, no.

[Adam Pally]

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[John Gabris]

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[Adam Pally]

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[John Gabris]

Liberty, Liberty. Liberty, Liberty. But so I. What I want to ask you about then, and that is that I recently read this article with Jimmy. I never pronounced right. Jimmy Iovine. Yeah, where he was talking about the music industry and saying that, like, there's a major shift that's happening right now, that the streaming services are becoming obsolete as far as, like, music, the music business goes, and that the numbers are. Are backing it up. That like, music is having its biggest year. It's, it's. People are trying to buy rights from every musician. There's like this huge income of, of people that were never interested in vinyl before that are now. It's like a $30 billion industry.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

All because people want to hold the record, have the record, put it on if their Internet goes out. And so like these, these streaming services are becoming like white noise, like the radio to a certain extent. Do you think that that could happen in podcasting and in movies and television? Like, that seems to me, I hear that and I go, oh, well, the next step is movie. Movies and television.

[Adam Pally]

You already kind of see that though. I think there's like a proliferation of like the Vinegar syndrome and Arrow video, and the people were putting out like bespoke blu rays and 4K and, and steel books of different movies. And I think we're seeing for what you're saying, people are tired of like the streaming flattening of everything and people. But I do think there's also. And Patreon and Onlyfans, I think are two very. People are realizing that, oh, I can support an artist.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

And it's like, how can I actually support something I like? And then that's a two way street because it's like, now I'm not only supporting Adam Pali by buying a Blu Ray of the movie he made. I'm also now in the club. And this is what Patreon and only fans do too, is like, oh, you like Adam Pali? I bought his special on Blu Ray and it's like, oh, you like podcast do as an action boys? Yeah. Are you a $10 tier or $5? Like, how big of a fan? There's a little bit of like an identity that you can get from these fandoms. And I think owning the vinyl of geese is like, you're like, are you a geese fans? Like, yeah, I got the vinyl. You know what I mean? Like, it's out. Yeah, I saw them live. Yeah, I got the shirt, you know.

[John Gabris]

Right. It's like in podcasts, to me that means that, that like the real. The real currency will be three people in a room together, you know, live, like in, in. In real time.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah. You know, people want connection. It's as simple as, like, they want to. They want to love a thing and they want to connect to a thing. And it's just like things have trended so far away from that for the last like 20 years with the idea that, like, music isn't a. Like, when CDs, you know, died CDs are actually, like, back.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

You know, in a way. Like, I know people who like. Like the. Who are like record collectors who are just like, I'll buy your CD collections. Just like, I'm. I'm all in on CDs now. Because kids want. Kids don't. Kids don't discriminate between CDs and vinyl. It's still a thing they can hold.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. They want to hold it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

And they want to put it. It's like, you know, they. They don't want it to come from the cloud. They want to hold it and they want to put it on their. They want to show their friends that they own it. Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Want to just have it be theirs.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

And not this, like, ephemeral fandom that it just. Like that can just fade as quickly as it showed up.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It's just like, you want to. I mean, look at these show, like. Like you mentioned Tyler, the creator before. It's just like he sold, like, six nights. Crypto.com, like, sold out six nights. That's like, insane when you think about that. It's like 120,000 tickets.

[John Gabris]

Yes.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

You. No, it's just like, just boom. Like, these shows that. Where. That's unheard of compared. Like, that didn't happen in the. With hip hop in the 90s. People weren't selling out. And the idea that like. Like Kendrick Lamar playing Sofi Stadium twice, which is. What's that?

[John Gabris]

Like, 100,000 people?

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, and even like, Oasis played two nights at the Rose Bowl. That's 180,000 people. It's 90,000 a night. Two nights. This thing sold out in under an hour.

[John Gabris]

I went to both shows at Giants Stadium, and they were exactly the same.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I saw both shows here, and I was like.

[John Gabris]

I was. I just was like, this is the. I was just like, I love all these songs. I love this band. It was nice to be with them.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It was like seeing a movie.

[Adam Pally]

And then I would say another thing. And maybe not for you in that moment, but for other people to be in that big stadium with other people who also love.

[John Gabris]

Yes. Yes.

[Adam Pally]

That's like the live podcast element is people want to be in the crowd with their fellow doughboys, and you want to see.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

You see people who are into your thing, and then you just don't feel alone. Because, like, the world is, like, geared to make people feel alone. Unless you do, like, work to fight against that. It's like everything is about just like, a screen right here and headphones on and Just like, it's just like. Think about, like when the. When ipods started, like, that was basically telling people, you don't share your musical enthusiasm anymore. It's like, it's just.

[Adam Pally]

You soundtrack your life.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah. You're closing everybody off with that. And that's.

[John Gabris]

Well, the radio. The, like, the radio, which is still something I don't understand about like serious radio or, or any radio. Any radio. It's like, why, why really, they can't find advertising for podcasts just out in the ether, playing. Playing on a. On a loop. Like the, Like a radio show. Like, what is the fucking difference? It's a radio. Like, it's a radio show.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Right.

[John Gabris]

You know, you're doing radio.

[Adam Pally]

Why isn't there, like. I mean, I guess this is kind of what serious does. Right? They have like, they have some podcasts that run like, radio shows. Yeah.

[John Gabris]

But they don't have like a channel where you can be like, I wonder what's on the comedy podcast channel. Who's on right now?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[John Gabris]

You know what I mean? And then you like it and you're like, I'm going to subscribe to that. Like, and it's so wild.

[Adam Pally]

All the non major TV and movie streamers, they also do the, like channel, like, Shudder has a channel. Criterion has channels where you could just be like, put it on and like a movie is playing. They program it, right.

[John Gabris]

And it's like old school. It's old school television in a way, because it's not up to the viewer, which is really also one of the mistakes that the streaming services make as well, which is like the human mind can't decipher what they want when they're offered everything.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, but we're like talking like, if Spotify is a diner menu where you're like, oh, I don't know what I want. But then you have like a gyro and you're like, oh, I kind of like gyros. Oh, I'm gonna go to this mom and pop Greek place that just makes gyros. And now I'm a gyro guy. It's like, so maybe Spotify helps you learn who geese are. But then you're like, I gotta get the album, I gotta hang out with other people. I gotta go to the live show with other geese heads.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

But it's also you. I mean, like, it says literally, it's like, look at the whole Taylor Swift thing where she would just suddenly, like. Like, Sabrina Carpenter was Taylor Swift's opening act. And then suddenly just like, she's Just off on her thing and just like, people want, like guidance with these things.

[John Gabris]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

And it's like, if this, if this performer is opening for my favorite performer, well, there must be something there. And then now, I love them now. And then you, then you go see Sabrina Carbon there and you see who is opening for her now. And it's just like, it's like, those are taste makers.

[John Gabris]

But that's the tale of all this time. I mean, that's what we all used to do. I mean, I remember seeing like, you know, Pearl Jam open for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. You know what I mean? And it was like that, that, that's how that happened. The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Like, yeah, we want them to open. And then, then Pearl Jim's like, it bigger. It's like that, that, that seems like, isn't that comedy?

[Adam Pally]

Isn't that like, yeah, I brought this guy on the road, this person on the road with me. They popped. And now like, it's like, it's so

[John Gabris]

natural thought, what are we doing to open up everything and be like, have at it. Fridges open, take whatever you want. People, people just stand there like, no,

[Devin Tory Bryant]

people need guidance and they just need a little bit of curation with it. They don't need to be told exactly what to do, but they just need the list to be trimmed a little to just go like, here are some options for you. Pick what you like here. But not just like, pull. It's not like a sitcom where you open the closet door and the bowling ball and everything falls out.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, well, that's what's kind of another layer to why it sucks. All the streamers merging is like when they were at least a little more varied, you'd be like, oh, you like this? Then you should get shudder. You like horror movies. You should get shudder. And obviously that still exists, but there's like, oh, you. Oh, you like this band? Well, on their label, it's probably some similar style bands or, you know, like, they're. And you're like, oh, oh, you like. I think about this all the time. Like the, the video store clerk. You know what I mean? Oh, hey, I love this movie. Oh, you like this? You should definitely try this or this. And I think those are the people. And like this. The society I want is like the experts. Because I listen to like, I go to where Bourdain says and they have

[John Gabris]

that, like on the app. It'll be like, if you like this, you'll like this. But because it's given to you in the same place, you're like, I know what the Netflix is. I know what the. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to watch another Netflix cereal.

[Adam Pally]

But Netflix is never going to go, oh, if you like this, you should seek out this movie that we don't have on our platform.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

But the thing is, like, here we're in the bubble. You can go to, like, video tech, right?

[Adam Pally]

Yeah.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

And they will literally do what video stores used to. They are that still. Or videos and these places that do curate things and you can ask what's good and things like that, and people have their recommendations and you can do that here. Or you can go to, like, Amoeba. You could go to Amoeba. You could go to, like, if you go see bands, like, certain places, book certain kinds of bands, it's like, I

[Adam Pally]

think, yeah, you feel confident and you're like, go to this place.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Exactly. Like, Zabulon will have a certain type of band.

[Adam Pally]

And then if you don't know if you like them, you're like, but it's at Zebulon. Let's go.

[John Gabris]

I think.

[Adam Pally]

Who's playing at Zebulon?

[John Gabris]

I think what's going to happen is, I think, like, the streaming stuff has just become such a corporate overlord machine, and people are getting. They're like, already getting their information from different places. Like, they're not. No one's watching, like, you know, streaming CNN for news. You know what I mean? It's like, that's already gone. So there's this. This aspect that they're like, they're slowly starting to kind of realize that. That they are television channels essentially, like, at their core. And. And when that happens, it kind of lets everybody breathe for a second. And you don't need the Netflix record store because the. That's not in Netflix's purview. What's. So. So someone gets to open up a small record store and tell you about a band. You know what I mean? And, like, that's what went away. Every small town in America had a record store with a guy behind the counter that. That could show you stuff. It's like, yeah, it's gone.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Person who would just be like, don't buy that.

[John Gabris]

Yes, you want this. Yes, exactly.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

It's just like, I had that when I was a kid. There was just like, these people at record stores would be just kind of like, oh, you like that? Do you know this? And then you're just off to the races.

[John Gabris]

Exactly. And like, that. I do think that is coming back a little because of the streamers. Don't. It's like they think we're dumb in a way. And so they're like, here, you'll eat the slop. I present you. And humans have never, never, ever been, like, taking anyone's word for it, you

[Adam Pally]

know, like, did they accidentally undo themselves a little bit by, like, all the streamers making everything online and on your computer screen and on your iPad. And then all of a sudden. So is staying alive on your iPad right next to. Right next to whatever huge show Stranger Things right next to staying Alive on someone's iPad, so that now that makes us all the same.

[John Gabris]

Exactly.

[Adam Pally]

All of a sudden, you're. When it was just in the movie theater or just on your television, you'd be like, well, yeah, my buddies do staying alive on the Internet, but I, like, sit down on my TV to watch Margo's Got Money Trouble.

[John Gabris]

Right.

[Adam Pally]

You know, and then with movie theater, you like, oh, I go to the theater to see this. But if it's all flat right there, it doesn't. So now all of a sudden, someone's like, hey, I'm selling. We are Vinegar Syndrome, and we make Blu Rays of movies of a certain genre and kind of style that you guys might like that a certain sect of people might like. Then all of a sudden, you're like, wow, I'm not gonna even. Like, I'll cancel a streamer and buy these things instead.

[John Gabris]

Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's happening. I do. I think, like, music was.

[Adam Pally]

I'm worried about how bubbly that thought is, But I do see it anecdotally as well, and I hope it's more universal. I feel like the kids are all right, is what I want to say in this moment.

[John Gabris]

Well, I think the stock market eventually, like, what's eventually going to happen is, like, the ST crash and all the. The people that have put their stock in those big systems will find themselves in trouble, and then they'll have to use the skills that they have to dig them out, which is like producing a movie or, like, you know what I mean?

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I was like, did you ever think for most of your life the idea that, like, MTV would just go out of business?

[Adam Pally]

I couldn't.

[John Gabris]

No.

[Adam Pally]

Like, the idea that MTV and Comedy Central do not exist anymore, but it

[John Gabris]

still seems dumb to me. I still, like. Like, I still don't understand how it could not be cost effective to own a television channel at this moment in time. That screen that. That plays all these artists videos and does commercials. I just am like, you're telling me that no one would advertise.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

I worked for mtv and one of the executives once showed me charts and he said, if we play literally anything other than videos, the ratings double. Like, he was like, he's like, they just don't watch it. He was like, we can put the dumbest show that has been run.

[Adam Pally]

And we learned exactly.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Like, it would be like Rob Dyrdek had like nine of them, but it would be like literally anything. And the ratings went up. That was not just radio on television,

[John Gabris]

but it wasn't like that in the beginning.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

But it became that pretty quickly.

[John Gabris]

Right. But look at where we are now. I mean, now I just can't imagine like what off.

[Adam Pally]

What you're saying is that. But MTV as a streamer can't exist on its own. And it cost $3.

[John Gabris]

That's what I'm saying.

[Adam Pally]

Everything else I just like, Comedy Central is $3 a month and you can watch all the old Conan's or whatever

[John Gabris]

and then do your show at a budget there. I just don't understand how it truly can't be worth it unless the corporate overlords are just like, I want to buy it and kill it. That way they buy my shit.

[Adam Pally]

Well, it's all just for shareholder value. We're not saying anything. No one said before. No, but it's like, it's like it's disputed. It would be such a dream to even have the difference of places to go streaming wise. There is no difference between Hulu, Netflix and any of them now. You know, Hulu and Disney are still

[John Gabris]

literally the same place, right?

[Adam Pally]

Exactly. So there's like. And there's so little difference amongst the big ones that you're like, this is like old man Gaber shit here too. Cars all look the same now, right? Like every car from every maker just looks like the same sort of amorphous kind of blow.

[John Gabris]

And then what are the ones that succeed? Like a Rivian that looks like an old Jeep.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah. And then it's just like people are desperate to like. And it's like people might not want to get Netflix, but they might want to get like the Action network streamer where it's like you can watch old action movies. Like people have taste now. It's like not everything can just be the diner menu anymore.

[John Gabris]

Right?

[Adam Pally]

I mean, I mean that they're trying.

[John Gabris]

Yeah. But I think so. I think that that may be maybe hopeful maybe.

[Adam Pally]

I fucking. I do think like Patreon only fans and like the direct artist and customer relationship, like the cutting out most of the middlemen, besides the percentage people, Like, I do think that has changed the way customers and artists both look at that dynamic of, like, some people are like, well, why do I need a record label if I can sell a thousand records? Like, if. If you. You don't. Action Boys, we live off of 6,000 subscribers. Like, if you had 6,000 people to tune into your TV show or album, you wouldn't be able to live.

[John Gabris]

You know what I mean?

[Adam Pally]

It's like. But like, with that, because they're willing to support us directly, it's like, it. The show can continue. It can make it like. And if it's like, all of a sudden, gofundmes for movies or seeds and sparks or whatever, you see all this stuff and you're like, there is a appetite for it. There's an appetite for, like, I support an artist, an artist gives me a product, and we don't have to deal with all the middle. And I think. I think the general public's getting, like, hip to the. To the fucking man, to the middleman.

[Devin Tory Bryant]

Yeah.

[Adam Pally]

Like, I paid at all the streamers. I get an email like, once a month that one of them is going up in price.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, but yet they're making less shows.

[Adam Pally]

Yeah, it's like, I know they're buying less shows because that's what they tell me when I go to meet them in real life.

[John Gabris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Pally]

You have been listening to Staying Alive with John Gabris and Adam Pally. A Smart List media production in association with Sirius xm.

[John Gabris]

Produced by Devin Tory Bryant and Anne Harris. Engineered and edited by Devin Tory Bryant, who also wrote the music.

[Adam Pally]

Associate producer and video producer is Maddie McCann, social media producer Tommy Galgano, assistant engineer Kyle McGraw.

[John Gabris]

Special thanks to Jared O' Connell at SiriusXM.

[Adam Pally]

Executive producers are John Gabris. Ooh me. Adam Pally. Ooh, you, Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, Richard Corson and Bernie Kaminsky. Do us a favor. Just rate and review the podcast. It actually helps.

[John Gabris]

Just so everyone knows we do not

[Adam Pally]

have a discord, don't reach out to us.

[John Gabris]

See us on the street. Walk the other way or you'll catch hands.

[Adam Pally]

Smart glass medium.

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