An Interview about Lady Pirates with Laura Sook Duncombe

Summary

Story Pirates Podcast: Interview About Lady Pirates with Laura Sook Duncombe

Date: July 9, 2026
Guest: Laura Sook Duncombe, historian and author, expert on women pirates
Host: Lee from Story Pirates
Theme: Real-life stories and legacies of iconic female pirates

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Episode Overview

In this special episode of the Story Pirates Podcast, host Lee interviews Laura Sook Duncombe, a historian and author celebrated for her work on the hidden histories of women pirates. The conversation dives into the realities of life at sea for women who became pirates throughout history, busting myths, highlighting legendary lady pirates, and exploring what their stories mean for young listeners today. Through humor, fascinating facts, and inspiring tales, this episode uses real history to encourage kids to chase their dreams beyond limitations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: What Makes a Pirate?

• Myth-Busting the “Story Pirate”

  • (04:20) Lee asks if there were ever real pirates who sailed seeking stories written by kids. Laura quips:

    “I don't think there could ever be any pirates as awesome as the Story Pirates. So, no, I do not have any knowledge of those pirates other than you guys.” (04:24)

• Why Become a Pirate?

  • (04:50) Laura explains that piracy was often a choice made out of necessity, not adventure:

    • “People did not go into piracy if they had better options. Well-governed, well-fed people do not become pirates. People become pirates because they don't have a choice.”
    • Especially for women, piracy offered “freedom from convention”—a rebellion against “what a woman in your time, in your station, is allowed to have and allowed to want.”

  • She links pirates’ mindset to something universal:

    “Everybody has had an experience where they've been told, this is what you can aspire to. And that desire to say, no, I have a dream, and my dream is bigger than what you think I can do.” (05:26)

2. Life as a Lady Pirate

• Daily Hardships and Pirate “Health Insurance”
  • (06:17–07:43) Laura details the grueling, dangerous, and communal life onboard:
    • Ships required constant maintenance—sail sewing, plank repair, cleaning, and cooking.
    • Ship injuries were common, lending truth to the lore of pirates with peg legs.
    • Pirates often signed agreements (“compacts”) that included not just shares of loot but early insurance policies for injuries.

      “Like, if we get 100 gold coins, I get five. But built into that was provisions for, you know, if you lose an eye, you get an extra gold coin. If you lose your leg, you get five extra gold coins.” (07:20)

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Legendary Lady Pirates: In-Depth Stories

1. Cheng I Sao (also known as Ching Shih) — The Pirate Queen of China

• (07:49–10:46)
• Active in the early 1800s; real name lost to history.
• Rose from “wife of Cheng I” to supreme leader of the largest pirate fleet ever assembled.

  “She knocks every single pirate who ever lived, male or female, including Blackbeard, totally out of the water. She is the fiercest pirate of all time, the most successful pirate of all time.” (08:15)

• Commanded over 1,200 ships and 40,000–60,000 pirates; amassed so much wealth she built banks.
  • Disputes the “pirate treasure-burial” myth: pirates spent their money quickly—except Cheng I Sao’s crew had too much to spend.
  • Outmaneuvered the Chinese navy and negotiated her own surrender:

    “She could ask for literally anything and they would have to grant it because they had been completely unable to stop her… She got to keep all of her money. She didn't go to jail. All of her pirates…were pardoned. Her second in command got a job in the Chinese navy…The Chinese government put together a fund to help these pardoned pirates transition into civilian life.” (09:38–10:46)

2. Anne Bonny & Mary Read — Partners in Crime in the Caribbean

• (11:00–13:49)
• Both are among the most famous “Golden Age” pirates; their dramatic, intertwined stories are legendary.
• Anne Bonny: Bored with proper life; craved adventure. Followed her own path after rebelling against expectations and a bad marriage.
• Mary Read: Raised as a boy to secure an inheritance, lived much of her life in disguise; skilled sailor with naval experience.

  “Anne and Jack [Rackham] captured a ship and press ganged a young soldier named Mark Reed because he had navy experience. And Ann and Mark became good friends to the point that Jack started to get jealous, at which point Mark revealed that he was actually Mary in disguise.” (11:53–12:28)

• Their exploits:
  • Famously stole a ship from under Governor Woods Rogers’s nose in Nassau.
  • Fought bravely during their eventual capture—while their male crew hid below deck.
  • Their public trial generated more historical records than most pirates—proving repeatedly they were full participants, not manipulated victims.

    “They had guns and swords just like everybody. They were just as piratical as the men.” (13:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lady Pirates’ Drive for Freedom:

  “One thing that unites all of the pirate women that I know of is their desire for freedom from convention... They said, no thanks, I've got a better idea. I'm gonna take charge of my own destiny.” (05:00–05:20)

• On Pirate Compacts (Early Health Insurance):

  “If you lose your leg, you get five extra gold coins. And so that was agreed upon before you even set sail.” (07:27)

• On The Power of Cheng I Sao:

  “She was making so much money that she had to build banks onshore to store it.” (08:45)

• On Owning Your Destiny

  “If someone says, well, girls can't do that, or like, boys can't be that, you get to say, I choose a different way. And you get to, you know, reach in to the pirate heart inside of you and say, I'm in charge of my own destiny. I chart my own course, and I can be anything I want to be.” (14:23–14:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:39] Introduction to female pirates — who they were, why they became pirates
• [05:26] The universal appeal of pirates and fighting for your dreams
• [06:17] Daily realities and dangers of pirate life, pirate “insurance”
• [07:49] Deep dive into Cheng I Sao's epic story and her unmatched power
• [10:46] Analysis of her retirement deal and unprecedented pirate “pension”
• [11:00] Story of Anne Bonny and Mary Read, their disguises and partnership
• [12:40] Their legendary exploits: ship theft, trial, and fighting to the end
• [13:49] Laura’s takeaways for kids—pirate stories as inspiration to be bold and follow dreams

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Takeaways for Young Listeners

• Pirates’ real stories go far beyond adventure—they are about challenging norms, seeking independence, and forging your own path.
• The adventures of women pirates show that boundaries can be broken and that “you can be anything you want to be.”
• History is full of inspiring figures who didn’t wait for permission to pursue their dreams, and neither should you.

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Closing:
Laura Sook Duncombe’s stories bring long-forgotten pirates to life and remind listeners that everyone has a bit of a "pirate heart"—and that living boldly means charting your own course.

“Thank you very much. And I want to shout out my kiddos, hi, Teddy. Hi, Lucas. Hi, Gracie. I love you. And remember, no sword.” — Laura Sook Duncombe (14:57)

Transcript

[Lee]

Lemonade.

Hey, listeners. Lee here. The Story Pirates podcast is on vacation this week, but to tide you over, I wanted to share a very fun interview I did with a writer and

historian named Laura Suk Duncombe.

Laura is an expert in lady pirates. That's right. Women who sailed the high seas in real life. Swashbuckling, swordplay, treasure, etc. We don't talk about real pirates very often on our show, but I couldn't resist learning more about this awesome topic, and I think you're gonna enjoy it. And of course, we'll be back next week with more brand new stories. And now a summer story challenge leaderboard update. As you know from last week, this week we're debuting a brand new leaderboard for groups of friends or siblings that are riding together on the summer story challenge. Still in the number one slot on the group leaderboard, we've got Zev and Rubin from Oregon with Theo, Richard and Elliot in second place. And after that, we have some new groups debuting for the first time on the leaderboard. Congrats to George and Arthur in Canada, Arabel and Emmett in the Philippines, Zach, Ben, Vivian, Violet in Canada, and Sawyer, Brady and Landon in New Jersey. And now the individual leaderboard is getting pretty exciting. It's neck and neck over. Congrats to this week's number one, Tabitha from Arizona. Right behind her in second through eighth place, we have Gus in Canada, Raffi in Rhode Island, Maya in Colorado, Brooklyn in Pennsylvania, Ethan in Washington, Alessandro in Spain, Stella in New York, Tommy in Rhode Island. And we have a bunch of people

tied for ninth place on the individual leaderboard.

Acadia in Massachusetts, Adrienne in Georgia, Evie in Vivi in Connecticut, and Ziva in Arizona. And tied for 10th place, we've got Jack in Illinois and Lucas in Canada.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Wow.

[Lee]

I cannot believe how good these stories are that these kids are sending in, but it is still anyone's game. If you've been watching the World cup like I have, you know, comebacks happen all the time. So it is definitely not too late to jump in and start the summer story challenge. We want to read as many stories as we can this summer. We'll be updating the leaderboard every [e-mail] leaderboard and every week I'll be shouting out kids on the podcast Grown ups. You can find links to the leaderboard and find out how to get your kids involved in the summer story challenge in the show. Notes for today's episode. Okay, onto today's interview with Laura Sook Duncombe.

After a few more words for the grown ups.

[Child Participant]

I love Story Pirates. It just filled me up with joy. My mom loves the jokes. Yo, yo, macha. It made me very proud about my writing. Yeah, we're just getting, like, really deep into, like, I want to say, philosophy.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

I definitely think I can be more creative now.

[Child Participant]

I'm the champion. The Story Pirates.

[Lee]

Laura Sook Duncombe. Welcome to the Story Pirates podcast.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Thank you so much. I cannot tell you how thrilled I am to be here.

[Lee]

Oh, my gosh, we're so excited to have you. Now we are called Story Pirates. So as you might imagine, I often get questions, comments about the fact that we're pirates. And so I thought, what better opportunity to bring you on the show? You are an expert in pirates, specifically women pirates. And I want to get into, like, all the real life things that you know and can share. But first I have to get this out of the way. Do you know about any pirates in

the real world that have ever sailed

the open seas looking for stories written by kids besides the Story Pirates? Of course.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

I don't think there could ever be any pirates as awesome as the Story Pirates. So, no, I do not have any knowledge of those pirates other than you guys.

[Lee]

Yes. I knew it. I knew we were first to market with this thing. Thank you so much for reinforcing that.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Absolutely.

[Lee]

Okay, so let's get into what you know about. Who were these lady pirates? What were they doing?

When were they doing it?

Why were they doing it?

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

So lady pirates have sailed the seas alongside and sometimes in command of their male counterparts since the beginning of recorded history. As long as there has been water and something to steal, there have been pirates. And as long as there have been male pirates, there have been female pirates. I think an important thing to know about piracy is that people did not go into piracy if they had better options. Well governed, well fed. People do not become pirates. People become pirates because they don't have a choice. So many women became pirates just to feed themselves and their families. But one thing that unites all of the pirate women that I know of is their desire for freedom from convention. You know, they were all told, this is what you can expect from life. This is what a woman in your time in your station is allowed to have and allowed to want. And they said, no, thanks, I've got a better idea. I'm gonna take charge of my own destiny. And that's why I think we all love pirates so much, because I think everybody has had an experience where they've been told, this is what you can aspire to. And that desire to say, no, I have a dream, and my dream is bigger than what you think I can do. And I'm going to go places where I've been told I cannot go. And apart from, you know, the swashbuckling and the looting and the swords and the ships, I think everybody has a little bit of pirate inside of them.

[Lee]

That's actually really inspiring. You mentioned swashbuckling, looting, sword play, that sort of thing. What are the kinds of things that you do on a normal day? If you're a lady pirate, you're doing

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

a lot of really hard work. Living on a ship is not easy, specifically living on a ship before the age of motor powered boats. So you are constantly maintaining your ship. You are sewing the sails, you are repairing wooden planks that have been broken in storms. You are cleaning the deck, you are cooking food. You know, we don't have all of Nimini's incredible robots and inventions to make life easier. You know, they just had to kind of do it themselves. And so it was hard work. It was dangerous work. You know, the reason we see pirates with peg legs and stuff, that's not all just for adventure and cool effects. It's sailing accidents happened a lot. Pirates during the Golden Age actually had sort of a early form of health insurance. When you went on sailing expeditions as a pirate, you signed a compact before you left that said, you know, this is my job and I will get, you know, x percent of the booty. So like, you know, if we get 100 gold coins, I get five. But built into that was provisions for, you know, if you lose an eye, you get an extra gold coin. You know, if you lose your leg, you get five extra gold coins. And so that was agreed upon before you even set sail.

[Lee]

Let's get into like a specific pirate. Could you tell me about one of these women pirates?

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

My very favorite lady pirate is a pirate who is active in the early 1800s and her name was Chang Yi Sao. Cheng Yi Sao is not even her real name. Chang Yi Sao is just a translation of wife of Chang Yi. We don't know what her real name is. It was lost to history. She knocks every single pirate who ever lived, male or female, including Blackbeard, totally

[Child Participant]

out of the water.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

She is the fiercest pirate of all time, the most successful pirate of all time. She was active in the South China Sea in a small sort of pirate confederation with her husband. They had, you know, just a few ships at this time. And then when he got washed overboard, then she took over the operation and eventually Built out her pirate empire to 1200 ships and over, you know, 40 to 60,000 people under her command. She was making so much money that she had to build banks onshore to store it. Think about feeding 1200 ships worth of people, 60,000 people, and they were still making, making so much money they had to bank it. Something that people don't know about pirates is that we don't have really any records of them burying treasure. That's just something that Robert Louis Stevenson kind of made up. And we all like the idea of it. But pirates spent their money. You know, they didn't get paid a lot, they weren't rich, and they also didn't know how long they were going to live. So when they had some money in their pocket, they went to town, they had parties, they bought lots of nice things. They bought delicious food and drink and enjoyed their time and spent their money as fast as they had it. But not Chengy Sao's pirates, because they just had too much money. They couldn't spend it. So they had to build their own banks.

[Lee]

She sounds amazing.

She was basically like running her own country, it sounds like.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, her fleet was bigger than the legitimate navies of the time. She was incredible. She was the smartest pirate who ever lived. And she's one of the few pirates who surrendered on her own terms. She went to the Chinese government and said, I apologize for my past misdeeds and I was tricked into this. And your humble servant would like to give up her piracy life knowing that she could ask for literally anything and they would have to grant it because they had been completely unable to stop her. So, I mean, she could say, I would like 14 pet leopards and a gold plated toothbrush and they would have to give it to her. So when she retired, she got to keep all of her money. She didn't go to jail. All of her pirates, all, you know, 60,000 of them, were pardoned. Her second in command got a job in the Chinese navy. She got to keep a small fleet of ships for herself, for her own sailing pleasure. And my favorite part is the Chinese government put together a fund to help these pardon pirates transition into civilian life. So they basically got a pension from the Chinese government. There's no other pirate who could have pulled that off.

[Lee]

Wow. So impressive.

[Child Participant]

And we'll be right back after a few words from the grownups.

[Lee]

Do you have time for one more story about a different pirate?

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

If you've ever heard of a female pirate, you've probably heard of either Ann Bonney. Or Mary Reid. They were active during the golden age of piracy. And, you know, in one of the the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction moments, two of the world's most famous female pirates ended up on the same ship, you know, kind of by accident. They're a great picture of, you know, different reasons why women went into piracy. Anne Bon was a rich girl and she just didn't want to sit around embroidering pillows and, you know, hosting tea parties at her father's estate. And so she, you know, married a jerk and ran off with him, only to realize that he was only in it for the money, which is how she ended up with Jack Rackham, who is a pirate, famous basically for being smart enough to hang out with Anne, Bonnie and Mary Reed. He was kind of a small time pirate until he teamed up with them. And then Mary Reid had spent her entire life disguised as a man. Her mother dressed her up like a boy when she was little to pass her off as a dead bro, get inheritance. She fought in the navy, she fell in love with her fellow naval men and they got married. But then when her husband died, she found herself at loose ends with what to do. The war was over and the only job she'd ever really been good at was being a sailor. And so she went back to sea, was headed to the Caribbean to sort of start her life again. And then her ship gets captured. Anne and Jack captured a ship and press ganged a young soldier named Mark Reed because he had navy experience. And Ann and Mark became good friends to the point that Jack started to get jealous, at which point Mark revealed that he was actually Mary in disguise.

[Lee]

Wow. And so when these two teamed up, what kind of mischief did they get into together?

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Oh, they got into so much mischief. Governor Woods Rogers came to the Bahamas with the intent to stomp out piracy in the Caribbean. He had had a pretty disastrous career beforehand, and this was going to be his big move. Anna and Mary stole a ship right out from under Governor Woods Rogers nose in Nassau harbor. And that put the target on their backs that their days were numbered. They were eventually caught, not because of Anne and Mary. Ann and Mary apparently fought valiantly, but the men had been carousing and were all down below playing cards and too scared to come out and fight the pirate hunters. But Anne and Mary held them off heroically for as long as they could. We know a lot more about these women than many of the others because they had a very public trial. We had testimony from women who had been captured by them. The judges really bent over backwards to get these women out of trouble. They would ask these, the victims, like, well, are you sure that Anne and Mary were a part of it? Maybe they'd been kidnapped. Maybe they'd been brainwashed. Maybe they didn't actually want to be pirates. Don't you think that could be what happened? And these captives said, no. They had guns and swords just like everybody. They were just as piratical as the men.

[Lee]

Laura, for kids listening, what do you think they can take away from these stories of these incredible, independent, powerful women who are on the high seas?

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

This is a great question. I think it is important to state at the outset, I'm not condoning piracy, swordplay, stealing of any kind. These are not the things we admire about pirates. But as I tell my own children, and as I want all children to know and all people to know, is that I think pirates are living proof that you never have to listen. If someone tells you you can't do something and you can't be something, your dreams are kind of the limit of what you can do. And if someone says, you know, well, girls can't do that, or like, you know, boys can't be that, you get to say, I choose a different way. And you get to, you know, reach in to the pirate heart inside of you and say, I'm in charge of my own destiny. I chart my own course, and I can be anything I want to be.

[Lee]

Laura Suk Dunkom, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing these stories.

[Laura Suk Duncombe]

Thank you very much. And I want to shout out my kiddos, hi, Teddy. Hi, Lucas. Hi, Gracie. I love you. And remember, no sword.