← Sustain This!
Sustain This!
How a No Buy Year Changed Her Life & Healed Her Shopping Addiction (ft Elysia Berman)
00:49:26
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- [00:00]
Alyssa
Welcome to Sustain this, a podcast where we discuss mindful consumption, personal style, and the quest for living a more intentional life. I'm Alyssa, a sustainable stylist.
- [00:10]
Christina
And I'm Christina, a shopaholic turned minimalist. Ish.
- [00:13]
Sina
And I'm Sina, a color consultant and slow fashion style coach.
- [00:16]
Alyssa
Together we will unpack the nuances of what it really means to be a conscious consumer and find more joy in what we have right now. So grab your tea, your coffee, or whatever floats your boat and join us in the conversation.
- [00:28]
Elisha Berman
Let's go.
- [00:29]
Alyssa
Yay. If you've experienced the highs and lows of a no buy and wondered if anyone else goes through the same learning process, then stick around for today's episode. While everyone's journey to mindful consumption looks and feels different, today's guest is just so fun and real that the peak behind the curtain of her no Buy year is inspired, inspiring, enlightening, and just a lot of fun. Today we're talking to Elisha Berman, one of the coolest creators out there, who is talking about mindful consumption, fashion, and sustainability. Alicia's platform of over 185,000 friends on TikTok has landed her in publications like Business of Fashion, Dazed, and npr. You'll also get to meet her super cute cavalier King Charles Spaniel. His name is Gomez. If you're watching, you'll definitely get to see him. If you're listening, maybe you'll get to hear him a little bit. Anyway, he's adorable. This is a great episode. We're going to get into it. Welcome, everyone. Well, in our intro, we promised a wicked episode. And here it comes. We've got Alicia Berman with us today. She has completed a no buy. She is, like, knee deep into probably one of the coolest jobs out there. So pretty cool. We are so excited to have you here today, Alicia. For the people who don't know, who haven't heard of you or your story, and of course, we're going to link everything in our show notes. You are two payments away from being completely debt free. Correct. Oh, my God.
- [02:06]
Christina
That's so wild. Oh, my God.
- [02:09]
Elisha Berman
Make it, like, just. So it's actually less than 30 days. Like, it's. It's.
- [02:15]
Alyssa
Oh.
- [02:16]
Elisha Berman
Because my payments are every two weeks, so it's like, it's. We're really close. I'm very.
- [02:21]
Christina
Does it feel real?
- [02:23]
Elisha Berman
No. And I feel like I'm really worried that it won't feel real when I'm out of debt, but it's just, it's so surreal to like. It's like, every payment just has lightened the mental load a little bit. And for it to be entirely gone is. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. How. When. When we get there, we'll see.
- [02:43]
Christina
Oh, my gosh. So can you tell us, for those of us or for those of listening who don't know, like, what's your story? What sort of set you off to take to kind of embark on a no buy challenge and just take yourself on this journey to pay off this debt?
- [03:00]
Elisha Berman
Well, the debt itself is kind of what motivated me. It got to the point where it was really becoming a burden is a massive understatement. It was. It ran my life. It ran every aspect of my life. It ran every decision that I made. I thought about it each and every single day, and I still wasn't doing anything about it. And I was tired of feeling really fed up with myself. I was tired of feeling scared. I was tired of feeling anxious and really financially uncertain, never knowing if I was going to own a home or retire. Like, I just felt really powerless. It was one thing in my 20s. And then as I got to be further into my 30s, I realized that this wasn't a quirky habit. This was just who I was, and I needed to do some drastic changes to fix it. Christina, you actually were a huge inspiration to get me started. I began this journey with like, 150 TikTok followers, and I was like, I'll just document it to kind of. It served as like a. Like a diary almost. And then it just, you know, I think I'm. I'm probably too honest, and I think people really resonated with my story. And I, you know, I'm here. I'm here today.
- [04:12]
Christina
Yeah. I think it was what. What you were sharing was so relatable, too. And I mean, yeah, just like, it was always, like, whenever you shared your TikToks, I'm like, oh, I'm talking to a friend. Like, I know her, you know, like, it's. Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:25]
Elisha Berman
Well, because we've lived the same story, you know? Yeah. I feel like I saw so much of myself in your story. Your. I feel like your debt was more student loans, like pharmacy schools, expensive. Mine was like, more consumer debt, which I feel like is worse in a way. But, you know, debt's morally neutral. There's no judgments.
- [04:45]
Christina
Yeah. No judgment at all. Yeah.
- [04:46]
Alyssa
No shame.
- [04:47]
Elisha Berman
But lots of lot. We both have bad shopping habits to unlearn. That's.
- [04:51]
Christina
Yeah. Was there, like, a rock bottom moment for you? Like, was There a day where you were just like, I need to turn this around or like, yeah, like, what was that day where you just decided, like, today is the day I'm going to stop worrying about it. I'm going to take action.
- [05:05]
Elisha Berman
So there were like several days, but the one that I most remember, I left. It was freezing. I was in Philadelphia over Christmas break. Well, there's no Christmas for me, but I. It was winter break and I was. I had no gloves. I had no winter coat. I had like a light enough winter coat and I could layer under it. Like, we could have made it work. For the time being, I left the house with the intention of just getting gloves, right? I set a budget of like a hundred dollars. I was like, if I go 20 over budget, it's not the end of the world. Gloves are really expensive nowadays for some reason. But I left the house with a budget of $100, and I wanted to find gloves. I went to a store that I was like, they'll have nice gloves. They didn't. I went to another store. They had nice gloves. They were way over budget. I went back to the original store doing like a second sweep. I found a coat, $600 coat, that was marked down from like $2,000. And I was like, well, it's a winter coat. It's practical, mind you. Like, I didn't set a budget of $600. Sorry, I have hair in my eye. I didn't set up $600. I set a budget of $100. And even that was pushing it. So I went into a store with. With the intention of buying gloves, and I left with a $600 winter coat, of which I already had several. And the best part is, is that in order to pay for it, I'd maxed out all my cards. I was really heavily reliant on buy now, pay laters with my shopping, which means that in person, shopping wasn't an option. I did a freaking balance transfer to, like, cover the cost.
- [06:45]
Christina
Yeah, it was.
- [06:46]
Elisha Berman
It was like the mental gymnastics of how I was going to pay for things that I didn't need, didn't budget for, and didn't. Like, I didn't even want to buy it. Like, I just. There was like, there's a part of my brain that knows it's right, and there's a part of my brain that knows it's wrong. Like, it's like the devil and angel on the shoulder. But now I'm way more reliant on. I know what's right. Like, I know when a Purchase is.
- [07:10]
Christina
Right when it's like. Yeah. When the. When it's trying to, like, tempt you. Did you. So what was. I'm just so curious. Like, what was going through your mind when there were purchases that, like, you knew you couldn't afford or you knew that it was, like, going off the plan, and you're just like, yeah, but I'm gonna buy it anyway.
- [07:29]
Elisha Berman
Yeah. So here's the thing. Going off the plan is very easy to do when you don't have a plan. I think I was really flying by the seat of my pants financially. And at the height of my shopping addiction. I really didn't have, like, a full understanding of the scope of my debt. And even today, I really don't have a sense of the full scope. Like, I think I estimated at 1.48,000, but then I realized I'd been making payments for, like, two months prior to calculating that. So it was actually probably more like 50,000, maybe even 52. But that's just a number I'll never know. But it was around that part. I had no plan, and it was like, so there was no moral gauge. And I think that, you know, I just winked. It. It was pure impulse. I was being driven by impulse.
- [08:17]
Christina
Yeah. Definitely can relate. And I think a lot of us can who are listening, because it's just. Yeah. And I think, like, when you see things that you want and you're in. Like, you're only thinking, like, in the moment, or, like, seeing. Seeing yourself wearing it or like, this is the perfect thing now. I'm never gonna have to search for it again. Or like, this is everything I've been looking for. It's like, I'll do anything to get it. Literally. Buy now, worry about it later.
- [08:38]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, exactly. Buy now, pay later.
- [08:40]
Christina
Yeah.
- [08:41]
Alyssa
Literally and figuratively.
- [08:44]
Elisha Berman
But I think, like, the. I was very driven by, like, this fragile part of me that was like, I wasn't living in the reality of who I was. Every. Every purchase I made was trying to fix something that was, like, broken in me. I think I was like, you know, I had a job that I was kind of just, you know, sort of happy with, but not. I was just happy enough with. I didn't like it. I didn't feel valued. I didn't feel respected. I didn't feel important. You know, I had friends. I have my marriage. Like, everything was just kind of, like, good, but nothing in my life was great. And I think I was really.
- [09:26]
Alyssa
Looking.
- [09:27]
Elisha Berman
For a way to, like, set myself apart mentally from others and, like, make myself special in some way. And I was like, well, certainly sorry, I have to put Gomez down. And I was like, well, if I have a really nice closet, that special. But then I didn't, you know, I'm ignoring everything that was special about me and like all the amazing qualities that I have. And I think once I started to really, like, stop relying on shopping and like step into my power as a person, I learned that like, people care about what I have to say. And, you know, I ended up getting a job that's like more challenging. Challenging and exciting and I feel more important than any job I've ever had before. So ultimately it was a net positive. But yeah, to get here.
- [10:12]
Christina
I feel you, girl. Yeah, for sure. Seems like now with your new role and your new job that you just got, it's, it's like a new challenge which is fulfilling in a way. Like it's something that you're working towards and it's like stimulating. Whereas if, if we're feeling like really stagnant in life, it almost seems like. I feel like a lot of us actually just turn to shopping just to almost feel something, to almost like to feel productive, to have something to look forward to. Because not that every, as you said, like, not everything, not that everything in your life is bad, but it's just same old. Like, how do I jazz this up a little bit?
- [10:45]
Elisha Berman
Yeah. And I think like, not to get like political, but like, I think late stage capitalism has trained all of us. We're like one purchase away from becoming our ideal self. And it's really interesting how we're all kind of conditioned on some level. Even if you don't shop the way that like you or I did, we're all conditioned to believe that like we can kind of achieve self actualization through purchasing. And you know, once you realize that that's a, it's a total fallacy, you can kind of step outside of like the matrix and like look from the outside in and see how silly it all is.
- [11:20]
Alyssa
Well, I was just going to say the whole late stage capitalism, that I fully agree. And I wonder often if it's even more so because we're women and I.
- [11:32]
Elisha Berman
Want to think it's women.
- [11:32]
Alyssa
Right? Like I do you think, like, what are your thoughts? That's how I feel that women are marketed to in this way.
- [11:38]
Elisha Berman
I think it's a hundred percent. I don't think men are marketed to this like this way. Well, men are marketed as much as someone who works in the beauty industry. Like, yeah, yeah, the market's segmented. Like for men. It's like, you know, we have to make it in black. Like, but I'm a woman and I wear all black. But like, I want it in black too. But it's like we have to make it in all black. There has to be more serious, like, whatever. So men are marketed to. And it's a subtle nuance. There's still self actualization through purchasing, but it's more in like a buying. This will make you more assertive, more powerful. Real men take care of their skin, which is why we made it in black. It's a very serious color. Like, you know what I mean? It's not for women. It's like a little bit, you know, it's like lilac and soft frost, frosted blue. And like, it's just, everything feels a little bit more, there's more of a sense of frivolity around it because women will purchase more. It's, it's pretty, it's pretty insidious.
- [12:39]
Christina
Yeah.
- [12:40]
Elisha Berman
But like, you know, I, I, it's my job, so. And I love what I do. But it is, it is interesting kind of coming from that perspective where you're like doing market research. I think women are sold to more heavily than men, but men are also sold to, you know.
- [12:57]
Christina
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess kind of moving into the next question is like, so when you started your no buy and you've shared this on your TikTok and on your socials, you almost seem like such a different person than you were when you started. So. Yeah. What was it like at the beginning compared to now?
- [13:13]
Elisha Berman
I think at the beginning I was kind of like, what I realized is that the way that I got dressed was basically just peacocking. Like, do you know, like, when men like where it's like the, it's like like Fashion Week.
- [13:28]
Alyssa
I know exactly what that. But like, I don't know. If you, if you go to fashion week and everyone's just wearing like, you can tell like everything's new, everything's been like, yeah, it's peacocking 100%.
- [13:37]
Elisha Berman
So like I was very much peacocking and I was like, which like, I feel like is typically what men do when they're like, it's like the pickup artist. It's a whole sub genre of like icky man on the Internet. But like, I feel like it's been co opted by the masses. And but Fashion Week, like, it's peacocking where you dress like. And I think I very much come out of like blogger fashion where it's like the Most ostentatious, extreme, loud version of yourself. And I always thought that because I had this loud personality, like, the way that I dressed matched my personality. And actually, I think, if anything, it overshadowed it and it hit it. But I told my story, and I showed who I was through clothes. And I think now, you know, I was in kind of this, like, edgy goth girl phase. And then I was like, I've just gone through a bunch of different phases. And I think as I've kind of learned more about myself, I've peeled these things back like an onion. And I realized how actually hard it is to get dressed for me now, because everything in my closet is a statement piece. Like, everything. So I'm, like, trying to put a top with pants, and I want to go to, like, the grocery store. I look, it's like an episode. It's like out of Zoolander or something. Like, I just look like a clown.
- [15:01]
Christina
Dara leaked. Yeah.
- [15:05]
Elisha Berman
Well, I also have that whole side, but it's like, it's. I just. It looks like a cartoon character. And now I'm like. I feel like I kind of follow the same trajectory you did, where you're like, you become like an extreme minimalist. I don't think I physically can do that. But style wise, I've evolved. And emotionally, I've evolved. Like, I stopped. I think compounding habits are a really beautiful thing, because once I stopped. I don't want to say stopped, because I still buy, but it's more intentional. Once I stopped impulsive shopping, I realized all the other impulsive behaviors in my life that didn't really serve me. And, you know, I know you don't drink either, but, like, I, I think, like, in New York, I, I. When I say I don't drink anymore, people think it's like, oh, she's in aa. But it's actually more. You just realize what no longer serves you and what you can. I think it's like you. What you could get, like, let go of and what you can live without. And you realize that these things don't add to your life. They actually subtract, and you live a more full life, like when you take them out. So now, you know. I think what's great is, like, shopping used to. I. It used to be an activity to fill time. Same with drinking. And I went on a vacation. I've been to Mexico City twice. Sorry, I'm talking a lot. I'm just gonna use.
- [16:22]
Christina
No, of course. That's all right. That's all.
- [16:23]
Elisha Berman
Yeah.
- [16:24]
Christina
I love it.
- [16:24]
Elisha Berman
I've been to Mexico City twice. Once was before. Right before I began my no Buy journey. I went September 2023, and once most recently. And noticing that emotional shift and how much differently I experienced the city when I first went, you know, I. I didn't do anything. I. I went and I mainly shopped and mainly drank and mainly, you know, ate and relaxed. And I thought that was a fulfilling vacation.
- [16:56]
Christina
That's like what you're supposed to do on vacation, you know?
- [16:58]
Elisha Berman
Right. But this trip, I went with, you know, my aging father, and we walked 25,000 steps a day. I went to Teotihuacan. I went to Chapultepec Castle. I went to this archeology museum I went to. And I wasn't thinking about myself. I was thinking about my dad, because I know he likes history and I know he hates shopping. So, you know, my husband is really patient and tolerant, so, like, when I drag him to the stores, he's just indoors. But now, you know, I was being really cognizant of my dad. I experienced so much more of the city. Like, I learned so much more about Mexican history. It was so much more enriching. And I feel like shopping was one blinder and drinking was another. And now that I have them off, I feel like I experience the world fully. Okay, I'm done. Sorry. That was my.
- [17:48]
Christina
I love. I think that's. Yeah. That's amazing. I've never really thought about it in that way because it's like, I'm thinking about habits that, you know. Yeah. When you're not shopping, one of the main. One of, like, the best things that you can do if you struggle with shopping is like, try to find. You need to find something to replace that behavior. And something that is, like, ideally, it's something that's fulfilling you, something that's a little bit challenging, something that makes you feel good after you do it. Like, maybe it's a hard thing at the start, but, you know, like, I know you're. You're doing Pilates every day.
- [18:18]
Elisha Berman
Day right now. I need to get back into it because it's been about three weeks since I. Well, no, you give yourself some credit. It was two weeks. It was gone for all of them. Yeah.
- [18:27]
Christina
You're walking 25,000 steps a day and doing all that, so, you know, like, killing it. But I do.
- [18:32]
Elisha Berman
It's like an anchor. And I know you with, like. You're like. You, like deadlift. You're like a. It's just exercise is an anchor, and it is. I can't Speak to anyone's mental health but my own. But I have adhd and exercise is a necessity. I never really understood that. Because your brain is going to look for dopamine. It needs it from somewhere. Exercise is a really good, healthy source of it. You're going to look for it in unhealthy places if you don't have that. So it just keeps me centered. It keeps me still keeps me calm.
- [19:07]
Christina
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's what I really love about finding those hobbies that replace the impulsive shopping. Because I don't think shopping is like inherently bad. I don't think it's. But it can be toxic. Like if the way that you and I have. Toxic. Exactly. So I think. And like, as you said, like, morally, you know, morally good, morally bad, whatever. I think it's neutral and I think you can, you can have a relationship with it that's, you know, very healthy and slow. You know, as you say, like, we're searching for that dopamine, but it's like, where do you find it in other places that that makes you feel good after the fact? Because I think the problem with shopping and impulse shopping is too, it's like it's short term pain, short term gain for long term pain kind of thing.
- [19:52]
Elisha Berman
Exactly.
- [19:53]
Christina
Whereas if you're walking around a museum and experiencing like taking things in, being present, slowing down, doing a hard thing, going to a workout when you want to sleep, when you want to be like horizontal on the couch, all of that is. There's a hump to get over. But it always feels so good at the end. As you compound that, it's like, wow, I do feel so much better. Or I don't need this as my emotional crutch anymore as much as I thought I did.
- [20:17]
Elisha Berman
Exactly. And I think to your point about debt, not debt, shopping being more morally neutral. Like, I think one thing that I've learned is the difference between impulsivity and intentionality. And like being conscious of the emotional state that's happening when I'm making a purchase. You know, people on TikTok, my audience is great for the most part. Like, everyone's awesome, but there's always someone in my comment section that's really quick to like psychoanalyze or diagnose. And people are like, that's your shopping addiction being activated. And I was like, there is no way that you could possibly know that because you're not like inside my skin. But like, over time, learning the difference between an intentional purchase which feels good, there is no short term Gain for long term pain. Like intentional purchases. When you've saved up for it, you make it like those feel really good and then wearing them also feels really good. It's not a reminder of like shame and guilt or whatever. And then the impulsivity. I think it just created a lot of. I think what I like white noise. White noise is good. It created a lot of like mess in my brain. I wanted to say it created white noise, but it didn't. It was like, it was just mess and chaos and like plaque that just needed to be like cleaned out. One thing that I have realized. Do you know how. Have you ever heard people talk about like food noise with.
- [21:43]
Christina
Yeah.
- [21:43]
Elisha Berman
Yeah. So like I had both. I had food noise and shopping noise. But shopping noise, really, you're constantly. There's always like another thing to want. So you're constantly like just thinking about things to buy and it's. Or how you're going to pay for the things you bought. It took up so much space. And I think over this journey, learning to not just I don't have it anymore. It's quiet worth everything. It's so much better.
- [22:10]
Christina
Yeah, that's. That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a really great way to, to relate it. So it's just like the, the food noise like constantly. So for people who don't know what that is, it's when you're constantly, constantly thinking about that. Like it's taking up all that space in your mind.
- [22:26]
Elisha Berman
So it just occupies that a craving on like a. You can like feel it in your skeleton. It's like a really, really powerful craving.
- [22:36]
Alyssa
Can you talk about like your setbacks and like how do you deal with the temptation when you feel those old habits coming up? Like, you know how you mentioned someone in your comments said, oh, this is your shopping addiction being triggered. How. Because obviously like we live in a world where temptation exists everywhere. So how do you deal with that?
- [22:58]
Elisha Berman
So I need strict rules and guardrails and what's actually really funny is I was looking at. I've been going through my closet and like getting rid of things slowly. You know, you'd think I would only be getting rid of pieces that I got like 3 years ago pre. No buy. Because, you know, now I'm not impulsive anymore. I was looking at pieces that I bought. I couldn't figure out when I bought them last year when I was like on vacation or whatever. Like I'm still not fully out of it. Like there's still like even last year I Was like, this year is way different. I would say this year is very different. So last year I think I was still learning and finding my footing and, you know, I had a couple setbacks and no buy breaks where I slipped up and I would purchase something. I think those slip ups happened from an impulsive place. I don't think they happen from an intentional place. I think that, like, because, I don't know, I had like a way of rationalizing them, like, even. But like, even now looking back, I'm like, okay, those were not intentional purchases. Silver shoes with lime green detailing is A, not my personal style. And B, like, I'm not. When would that fit in? You know, so I'm still learning. And I think like, this year, what I'm trying to be cognizant of is, you know, if. If I break, I'd. I'd rather break for an intentional purchase. I need to have that North Star of like, saving money and not. I. I'm still in it is my point. I'm still in it. I'm still in recovery and I'm still figuring out the differences.
- [24:39]
Alyssa
I think we all are, though. I know none of us, like, there isn't a such a thing as being done. This is like just part of being human, right? This is like life. We all have shit that we struggle with. So I. Yeah, I wouldn't.
- [24:54]
Elisha Berman
There was absolutely no. And I'm trying to beat myself up because it's like, it's just really funny because, oh, you know, if I'm going through my closet, the stuff I would be getting rid of is like three years old. It. It felt the realization that, like, stuff that I bought last year when I was like, supposed to be being more intentional and I thought I was. It's like, oh, you still don't really know what you're doing. Like, you're still figuring it out.
- [25:17]
Alyssa
Oh, gosh, no, don't beat yourself up. I have to say. Okay. Because I've been thinking, like, when we're talking about intentionality versus impulse, I think there is room for both. Eventually I've made impulse purchases that are like, my favorites and that I've had for 10 years. You know what I mean? I'm sure you have too, right?
- [25:37]
Elisha Berman
Yeah.
- [25:40]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [25:40]
Elisha Berman
Practicality is a lens I need to filter things through.
- [25:43]
Alyssa
Right? For sure. For sure. The, like, the fantasy self, like, letting go of the fantasy self and being.
- [25:51]
Elisha Berman
Rooted in reality because the fantasy self will wear whatever, but the. The me self needs T shirts and jeans. Like, I need basics to wear.
- [26:01]
Alyssa
So how do you do that. How do you. How what's. Yeah, how do you do that to root yourself in reality?
- [26:08]
Elisha Berman
So I think, like, gaining a sense of. I think, like, dressing for the life that you have is really important. You know, I like to spend my days walking around museums. I have to travel for work. I now have a job where I wore tabbies, which are for those who don't know. Like the goat shoes. I wore them.
- [26:33]
Christina
They are so good. You have, you have quite. You have a few of them right.
- [26:38]
Elisha Berman
To our offices. And I was like, I felt a bit like an outlier, you know, that's also just who I am. But I'd rather. I think I need a few more. Like, I bought loafers. I bought some we. I need some sensible pieces because I'm like, the boss now. I want to be seen as, like, respectable. Respectability politics are coming into play a little bit. Like, you know, I want to be a woman taken seriously in an office dominated by men. I need loafers. Like, I just needed.
- [27:12]
Alyssa
How do you feel in them when you wear them? And like, you're. You're kind of still learning your new roles. So how is that feeling?
- [27:18]
Elisha Berman
They feel? It's like, I don't know why I haven't been. Like, I had two pairs of loafers and I never wore them. Like, I don't know why I haven't been a loafer person all along. Like, okay, it's like, I think peeling back as I peel back the layers of the onion, understanding. I, like, rejected normal. Like, I rejected jeans. I rejected. And it was almost like a way of rebelling. I was like, I'm not that person. I'm not. I'm not basic. And whatever I am, like, I am or I need to be. Just because you can't wear 5 inch platforms every single day of the year. Like, it has to be. There's a balance to make sense.
- [28:01]
Christina
I loved your outfit with your vintage Levi's the other day. They look so good on you.
- [28:05]
Elisha Berman
That's another component of all of this, is I randomly lost a bunch of weight from not drinking and I don't eat meat. It's just been melting. And, you know, great. I'm not complaining, but I didn't want to change my closet, right?
- [28:21]
Christina
So now there's a necessity even right now to shop and to replace some things.
- [28:26]
Elisha Berman
So those jeans are really baggy. Um, and I'm just trying to embrace. I'm trying to embrace the slouch. Like, I'm trying to embrace the sag. And, you know, every time I Go to the tailor. It's like $300. So I'll tailor some slowly. Things will start fitting again. We're just embracing it for now.
- [28:44]
Christina
Tell me if you can relate to this with all this change that's happening, like, because, I mean, I feel like you've been through so many ups and downs as you've gone through this low buy or no buy journey is maybe you could talk about it a little bit. You got laid off, and suddenly there's like a TikTok ban going away. And, like, you've worked so hard to build such a following. Now there's a new job in my. I'm just thinking back to, like, my old self. There'd be such a temptation to, like, it would be my reason to shop. Be like, oh, I'm. I'm sad and I'm stressed. I'm going to go shopping or I got a new job. I need to get all this new stuff. There's such a temptation to fuel the, the addiction rather than, you know, I think, doing it the way you've dealt with it, which is slowly and, you know, I think as realistically, I think, as somebody can in that situation.
- [29:33]
Elisha Berman
I went through massive change over the past. I would say it started, I was kind of the same for most of last year. It was like, you know, the first nine months of the year, it was very much the same. And then my dog passed away. That was horrendously traumatic. She didn't pass away in like a, you know, tick tock positive. Whole families around were just. Yeah, it wasn't like that. It was, like, traumatizing. And, you know, I remember that night, it like, like something shifted in me and like, you know, I, I, I felt kind of a drift after that. And then, you know, I slowly kind of lived in that space. And we got Gomez, and my husband and I healed and moved on a little bit. We're. We're still not over it, but, you know, that change happened. And then in January, another major change happened. It's like, but they're like, Coco was my dog. Like, I was Coco's mom. So, like, losing her was kind of like losing a piece of my identity. Losing my job that I'd had for four years, like, felt like losing a piece of my identity, you know, TikTok, even though didn't end up being banned for more than 24 hours. The TikTok that came back, like, I don't know about you.
- [31:00]
Christina
Yeah, it's not.
- [31:01]
Elisha Berman
My engagement is very different.
- [31:03]
Christina
I feel like, I mean, you're still killing it. But I. Yeah, I find I'm. I'm not posting on it. Like, I'm, like, posting like, once a week, if that. It's just.
- [31:10]
Elisha Berman
I know. I mean, I don't have the same dead. It feels tainted, but I don't have the same dedication to it. So it was like this thing that was exciting for me, like, kind of went away. And then, you know, I'd never been unemployed before. That experience was really kind of, like, changed me. And then now I have this new job, and it's like, like, my. My apartment. The only thing that's, like, the same about me is, like, my apartment. And I. I wanted to change that too. Like, I'm so. I just. I feel like it's been such a whirlwind, less than a year. It's just a lot of change all at once. And it. I feel like I've changed as a result of that. I don't really care to prove myself or. I used to have this chip on my shoulder. I needed to be, like, the edgy, weird one in every room that I was in. And now I'm just like, I don't really care. Like, I don't need to prove myself. All I have to do is open my mouth and people will think I'm weird. So, like.
- [32:11]
Alyssa
I love that.
- [32:12]
Christina
Do you think that shopping less had something to do with it? Like, more maybe learning how to use what you had or just, like, being settled, being settled with things as they are as opposed to kind of like, always chasing the new?
- [32:24]
Elisha Berman
I think, like, one, like, living with things as they are and not constantly updating my wardrobe first to gain a sense of novelty, like, styling the pieces that I have. Like, what it made me realize is that, like. Like I was saying earlier, it's genuinely hard for me to get dressed without basics, especially with summer coming. I'm like, I don't know.
- [32:43]
Alyssa
Summer's tough.
- [32:44]
Christina
Summer is tough.
- [32:46]
Alyssa
I mean, I said it's the worst for people who like to dress with personality. I'm sorry.
- [32:51]
Elisha Berman
I'm saying it.
- [32:52]
Christina
I'm sorry. It's hard.
- [32:53]
Elisha Berman
Yeah. I had some linen pieces that were, like, from Oisho. Like, it's like a fast fashion brand that I bought them three years ago in Spain. I was gonna get rid of them because I was like, oh, like, fast fashion, whatever. I don't feel like buying new summer clothes. So I'm just gonna wear. I. They were in my car and, like, the cell pile. I was like, I'm just gonna wear them. Like, I don't care. It's summer. Everyone looks like crap. These look actually, like, lost a little bit. Like, they. I feel more comfortable in them. Like, I actually think they'll look really good this summer. So, you know, I'm shopping my car now, not my clothes.
- [33:36]
Alyssa
Shop. Your cell pile. Good. I love it.
- [33:39]
Elisha Berman
It's perfect. But, you know, I think, like, it's. It's interesting because right now, I do actually have two major gaps in my wardrobe. I don't really have a lot of summer clothes. I don't really have, like, a good professional wardrobe. I can now also afford to, like, go out and shop. And I bought loafers and a pair of sunglasses.
- [33:58]
Alyssa
Nice.
- [33:59]
Elisha Berman
I don't have the energy to, like, I don't want to shop. Like, I don't want to buy more than, like, one thing here and there. So tired.
- [34:05]
Christina
Exhausting. Yeah.
- [34:06]
Elisha Berman
And I was going through my closet last night, and I had to get rid of. I have these two leather jackets that were, like, oversized, and when I was, like, 15 pounds bigger, they kind of worked. They were still big then. And now my husband's like, no, you look like a little kid in, like, my coats. These don't work. They're nice codes. You need to sell them. So I know that next fall, like, I'm gonna want a nice leather jacket. What better time to start saving for it than right now? And, like, I can. Whatever. So that's how I shop now. I know what I want. I don't want to buy the less nice thing. I want to buy the thing that I actually want. And I'd rather. I would rather buy one thing than 20, you know, that are, like, less good. It's just. Shopping is a drain. Buying things is a drain. Owning things is a drain. Maintaining things is a drain. So I just want less. Like, I want less work, like, curated.
- [35:04]
Christina
Like, you like your museums. You know, that's the same. The same thing for your wardrobe. So.
- [35:08]
Elisha Berman
Sorry, I'm a yapper. I'm, like, taking up all your time. I'm sorry.
- [35:12]
Alyssa
That's the whole point. Well, I'm really curious, Alicia. I know you can't talk about it too much, but you've mentioned you work in the beauty industry. You're in charge. Can you tell us how this creative, like, trajectory of your career informed your no buy year? Because I imagine when you're working in this industry, it must make it doubly hard to not shop and participate in everything that's new.
- [35:35]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, I would say my current job is much more realistic. Like, there's definitely, like, My old job. When I walked into that office and I saw what my boss was wearing, I was like, I need to step it the up. Try to play it cool. But I really like her, and I. I think in, like, some way, because she's so nice, I want to impress her with my work. I don't want to impress her with my clothes. And I also already own the clothes. Like, I'm already impressive enough. You know, I already impressed her. She hired me. Yeah, exactly.
- [36:13]
Alyssa
This is such a good attitude.
- [36:14]
Elisha Berman
The beauty and fashion industry. I don't want to talk about anyone specific, so I'm going to pivot really quickly. But the beauty and fashion industry ignore my face. Without makeup. It's a lot of this up and down, elevator eyes. Literally, like, looking at your entire outfit. I've had.
- [36:30]
Christina
Yeah. Devil Wears Prada vibe that.
- [36:32]
Elisha Berman
It's a terrible feeling. And you better hope to God that you're wearing, like, good shoes when it happens, because I had it happen one time, and I wasn't, and.
- [36:41]
Christina
Okay, can I just say that that's not the first time I've heard that, too? Like, literally straight up the up and down where it's like, oh, yeah, are my shoes the right shoes? That's. That's so wild that that's actually, like, a thing.
- [36:52]
Elisha Berman
I'm guilty of doing it. I am so guilty of doing it.
- [36:56]
Alyssa
I do it all the time.
- [36:59]
Elisha Berman
But, like, in my profession, taste is essential. First of all, a lot of times in New York City, like, people are genuinely just, like, appreciating your outfit. It's pretty common. I mean, you guys live in a major city, too. Like, Toronto.
- [37:12]
Alyssa
Common in Italy, Everywhere.
- [37:13]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, it's common. Well, especially in Italy. I feel like they'll just flat out st. Stare at you.
- [37:17]
Alyssa
100. 100.
- [37:19]
Christina
But, oh, my God, I couldn't handle it.
- [37:21]
Elisha Berman
New York, it's like. I mean, Toronto is a fashion capital, too, but, like, New York. I'm just gonna filter through New York because that's where I live. It's like everyone on the street is doing it. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes they might just be appreciating it. Like, if you're. If you're getting elevator eyes, usually your outfit's either really good or really bad.
- [37:38]
Christina
You don't know which one.
- [37:39]
Elisha Berman
You don't know which one it is. But, you know, I think, like, as I've aged in my career, I'm now the authority figure. You know what I mean? Like, people are worried about getting elevator eyes for me, and I do them, and I'm trying to re that in so. But yeah, I think in my industry, your taste is everything and your taste level is kind of your calling card. It's really, really challenging to not not. It's hard to gauge, like, when is the shopping a problem? Because for many of people in my industry, it's literally an investment in your future because you won't advance if you can't prove that taste level. And you have to. A lot of times you're not being given opportunities to prove the taste level at a photo shoot. You have to do it with how you're dressed. And so there is kind of this fine line. I mean, the beauty industry and the fashion industry is filled with a lot of creatives who really care about this stuff. I don't see it changing anytime soon. I don't necessarily know that it's something that has to change. I think judging people for their clothes is not ideal, but like, you should care about what you look like in my industry. But yeah, I think when I was younger, it definitely put a lot of pressure on me to shop because it felt justified. It felt like, oh, well, I have to do this to succeed. And at that point in my life that was true. I don't need to do it anymore. Yeah, I'm learning. I'm unlearning that behavior.
- [39:05]
Christina
It puts this pressure on to shop and it almost maybe puts this pressure on to like really lean into this fantasy version of yourself rather than, you.
- [39:14]
Elisha Berman
Know, I think with everything that's going on right now, that, that, that's, that feels very much of the, like, that's, that's more magazine world, like where I was, you know, at the end of the day, like beauty. I think beauty has less fantasy than fashion. I think fashion is a lot more in leaning into that fantasy. Most of the people I know in the beauty industry don't wear makeup, which is interesting because they're the ones. But like, you know, I think I would turn looks like I would wear like a smoky eye and everyone would be like, that's an interesting look. We're working in a beauty company. It's an eye made. You know, I think it's funny. I think it's interesting that like a lot of the people who work in beauty don't really wear makeup. And a lot of people that work in fashion wear like jeans and sneakers in like an ironic way. I think when you're in it, you like it less. Once you see the sausage get made, you like, want to participate less.
- [40:13]
Christina
That's hilarious.
- [40:16]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, I think I think. But. But I think when you're starting out, there's this belief that you have to do that, and so you try a lot harder. But magazines. Yeah, that's. Oh, magazines are. It's a. It's terrifying. It's like, that's very much the fantasy, because that's what you're selling.
- [40:34]
Christina
Yeah.
- [40:34]
Elisha Berman
In makeup, in beauty, you're selling the product. In fashion, you're selling the product. In magazine and the life. Right.
- [40:41]
Christina
Yeah.
- [40:42]
Elisha Berman
A lot of the people that are successful editors, you can't really be a successful editor if you're not living that fantasy. You have to have the Instagrams of you in Europe and dressing well. It's. That's why most editors come from some kind of, like, family and have, like, trust funds, because it's truly. You have to live that fantasy to be able to write about it. You're not an authority figure otherwise, you know.
- [41:08]
Christina
Right.
- [41:08]
Elisha Berman
And I think that's why people were shaking their boots so much about, like, influencers, because it really democratized the industry and it changed it. It's not the case for editors anymore, but magazines are still kind of trying to be, like, bastions of taste and style. So that's, I think, where the fantasy really still is alive and well today.
- [41:27]
Alyssa
That was so interesting, that last bit. Sorry, go ahead.
- [41:30]
Christina
I know, I know. I would like to, like, I feel like we could have you back and just talk about that.
- [41:35]
Elisha Berman
Totally.
- [41:35]
Christina
Like, I would love that. Yeah, for sure. So good. So, Alicia, we have about 10 minutes left, I think, before we get into rapid fire questions. Since you are less than one month from your debt freedom, and you've come so far in this journey of shifting your spending habits, your mindset, your relationship with yourself and your stuff, what's one thing you're really looking forward to as you move out of debt and into kind of almost like a maintenance, like, your new life.
- [42:07]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, maintenance mode's scary, but I just, like, I put $2,000 a month towards debt, and I can live very comfortably like that. Like, very comfortably. But, like, I'm still comfortable with myself. I've set it up and, like, my life is such. I can aggressively pay down debt and also have somewhat of a balance in my life. I just am really excited to save. What I've noticed is that with every amount that my debt has gone down, my mental load has gotten better. Like, my mental health, and I just feel lighter. And when my savings goes up, like, I know that that's gonna get even better. Like, if it's like a spectrum Right. And I'm in the middle right now. And there's like the negative and the positive. I'm in the. The zero right now. Right. Like I'm not in one direction or the other. Like as I move this way, what's that going to feel like? Having I have retirement. To be clear, I have a lot of retirement, but like emergency savings.
- [43:08]
Christina
Yeah.
- [43:09]
Elisha Berman
That fear, like the fear of what will happen if I get laid off. Like living by the seat of your pants and that kind of like terror, especially in this economy. Maybe Canada is doing a little bit better, but it's not good in America right now.
- [43:20]
Christina
Yeah.
- [43:21]
Elisha Berman
Having some padding and financial security to kind of like insulate me a little bit. I'm looking forward to that.
- [43:30]
Christina
That's amazing. So proud of how far you've come.
- [43:33]
Elisha Berman
And you know, who is she?
- [43:34]
Christina
It's amazing. It's. Just make sure you celebrate it too. Because I will say one weird thing about paying off debt and this is not the first time I've heard it is. It's almost like, okay, you know, like, move on, I'm done.
- [43:46]
Elisha Berman
I know. I'm trying to commemorate it.
- [43:49]
Christina
Really celebrate that.
- [43:50]
Elisha Berman
I have one way in mind and I'm really excited about it, but I know it's one of the rapid fire questions, so I'm going to save it.
- [43:56]
Christina
All right, let's get into them. Speaking of.
- [43:58]
Alyssa
Okay, ready? Okay. What's the top item on your wish list?
- [44:02]
Elisha Berman
I'm going to get myself a Cartier watch when I get out of debt.
- [44:05]
Christina
Oh, yeah.
- [44:07]
Elisha Berman
I love it. I know it's ironic, but I'm on. I'm double dipping salaries right now because I'm getting severance and a new salary. So my final severance payment is my first salary. It's actually really funny because from that I know it's Robin fire. I'll stop talking. But that's great.
- [44:22]
Christina
That's okay. Treat yourself. This is like. This is what you worked like two.
- [44:25]
Elisha Berman
Years for that job that I was at for four years. This is my first paycheck I've ever received from them where I wasn't paying off debt with it. So this is the first time I've ever. Salary.
- [44:37]
Christina
That's your money. You know, that's good. I love that.
- [44:40]
Elisha Berman
And I'm gonna get it towards. I'm gonna put it towards my wash and it's my final paycheck for my old job. So it feels, it feels poignant. Feels like a good use of that.
- [44:47]
Christina
Yeah. I'm excited for you. Sorry.
- [44:50]
Alyssa
It's exciting. Most Worn fragrance of all time.
- [44:55]
Elisha Berman
Oh. Portrait of a Lady Frederick Mall.
- [44:57]
Alyssa
Okay. The fragrance you'll be reaching for this.
- [45:01]
Christina
Summer.
- [45:03]
Elisha Berman
Mojave Ghost by Birado. They just gifted me a bottle, and I'm obsessed with it. Okay.
- [45:09]
Christina
I. I need to figure out this fragrance life. Like, I do.
- [45:12]
Elisha Berman
I don't wear it at expensive christiness. The only reason I get a lot of it for free, but it is the stuff that I buy.
- [45:24]
Christina
It's a thing. Okay.
- [45:27]
Elisha Berman
Like, that's a trip. It's a trip, like, to staying in, like, the Four Seasons or whatever.
- [45:32]
Christina
Oh, holy. Okay, never mind that.
- [45:34]
Elisha Berman
Yeah. Don't get into fragrance.
- [45:35]
Christina
I'm like, back in. My fragrance was like, what's the one by Britney Spears that she had that came with, like, the blue bottle? I think so. It was like, a little. Yeah, yeah.
- [45:44]
Elisha Berman
There's fantasy, curious. There's a couple.
- [45:47]
Christina
Yeah. I forget what it's called. It's like, in the blue bottle, like a crystal one. Anyway, that's the last one I've had.
- [45:52]
Alyssa
Oh, my God.
- [45:53]
Sina
Amazing.
- [45:54]
Alyssa
Wow.
- [45:54]
Elisha Berman
You're not in the fragrance at all. Okay, you can get it. Oh, it's a little.
- [45:57]
Alyssa
Just get one. Just get one and wear it all the time. It's your signature.
- [46:00]
Elisha Berman
More like a signature scent journey. Yeah.
- [46:02]
Christina
Okay.
- [46:03]
Alyssa
Okay.
- [46:04]
Elisha Berman
This bit. One.
- [46:05]
Alyssa
I just get one? Yeah. 100%. What's the best beauty secret? Nobody talks about Enough.
- [46:11]
Elisha Berman
Don't use soap in the morning. You don't need to wash your face as much as you think you do. Unless you have, like, acne skin. Wash your face less. Best beauty secret. I feel like your products warm, like, put them on your hand first to warm them up, and then put them on the skin and they'll like me.
- [46:28]
Christina
That's why your makeup always looks flawless.
- [46:30]
Elisha Berman
And then massage your face with moisturizer for, like, a full minute and use a ton of moisturizer before you do. Foundation.
- [46:38]
Christina
Got it. Okay, we'll try that. I'll try that tomorrow.
- [46:42]
Elisha Berman
That's how you get a good love it.
- [46:46]
Alyssa
Favorite part about your new job?
- [46:47]
Elisha Berman
It's a challenge. I'm going to be building something from, like, the ground up effectively and really carving out what it looks and sounds like. And I've never been able to have. I've always kind of come on too late to an act change. And I'm coming in. This is the first time I'm coming in early, so I am very excited about it. There's a lot of change ahead of us, but it's really cool and the brand is something. It's very different from what I've done, but it's a big departure and it's exciting. It's cool. There's a lot of like. There's like MIT Robotics nerds there. So is there any.
- [47:18]
Christina
Oh, wow. Okay. It's like a hybrid crossover.
- [47:22]
Elisha Berman
I'm working at like a tech company now. I'm not working. It's like beauty tech. It's like a hybrid.
- [47:26]
Alyssa
Very cool.
- [47:28]
Elisha Berman
Sounds neat.
- [47:28]
Christina
I feel like you just made a post about this. Blonde, brunette, or both?
- [47:32]
Elisha Berman
Oh, Jesus. I don't know what's going on with my hair. So I had black hair, I stripped it. It's now like medium brown. Well, I made a post about this and the Internet resoundingly agreed. I don't work as blonde, so. But I want like a little bit of something in there. I feel like curls need like highlights for dimension. I liked my hair blonde, but I guess brown. Brown's cheaper.
- [47:58]
Christina
That's right. Yeah, it's not though. When you start going gray, I have to go.
- [48:05]
Elisha Berman
Yeah, I stripped all my color out. So they're all just on display.
- [48:09]
Christina
Just like sticking out like their own. Yeah, me too. Okay, finally, where can our community find you?
- [48:17]
Elisha Berman
On my TikTok Lishaberman. It's E L Y S I A B E R M A N. Just my name.
- [48:25]
Christina
Love it.
- [48:25]
Elisha Berman
And Instagram. I think I like Instagram more, so go to my Instagram please.
- [48:29]
Christina
It's a good one.
- [48:31]
Alyssa
We'll link all of them below.
- [48:33]
Elisha Berman
Awesome. Thank you guys so much.
- [48:35]
Christina
Thank you.
- [48:37]
Alyssa
So good.
- [48:37]
Sina
Thank you so much for joining in our conversation this week. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love it if you subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple and and leave us a rating and review. It's one of the best ways to support the Sustain this podcast at zero cost to you.
- [48:54]
Christina
We're also a community led podcast, so if you have any questions for us, topic requests, or even guests you want to hear from, please send us a DM on Instagram @Sustain ThisPodcast. We read all of our comments and look forward to hearing from you.
- [49:07]
Alyssa
We hope you join us again next Tuesday where we'll talk about so much more than clothes.
- [49:12]
Elisha Berman
Ciao. Sa.