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- [00:00]
Alyssa
Welcome to Sustain this, a podcast where we discuss mindful consumption, personal style, and the quest for living a more intentional life. I'm Alyssa, a sustainable stylist.
- [00:10]
Christina
And I'm Christina, a shopaholic turned minimalist.
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Alyssa
Ish.
- [00:13]
Sina
And I'm Sina, a color consultant and slow fashion style coach.
- [00:16]
Alyssa
Together we will unpack the nuances of what it really means to be a conscious consumer and find more joy in what we have right now. So grab your tea, your coffee or whatever floats your boat and join us in the conversation. Let's go. Yay. Yay. Hello everyone. Welcome back. How are you all doing? We hope you're well. Today we are talking about a recent short video, TikTok reel that Alison Bornstein put out. Alison Bornstein is a LA based stylist who we are big fans of over here. She talks a lot about like using what you've already got, all the good things. And she did a short about timeless dressing and sort of questioning its validity and saying, you know, is it a trap? We're all seeking to look timeless, quote unquote, but really that's not honoring our own self expression, experimentation. And she made reference to a couple of style icons, quote unquote, who are typically referenced as being, you know, timeless dressers, where perhaps it, their style seemed timeless in the moment and in our current moment because it's also aligned with what is actually currently trending. So we're going to leave that in the show notes. I personally agree. I think there's so much focus on dressing in such a way that you know, if you looked back on a photo of yourself in 20 years, you won't like, you'll be so happy with.
- [01:56]
Christina
It as opposed to feeling cringe about it being like, oh my God, what was I wearing?
- [02:01]
Alyssa
What was I thinking? But I mean, look, my style hasn't changed much since university. Okay. I think I, I've always dressed this way with like a great like tailored separates and button up shirts and I would look back on the outfit that I wore in first year university and been like, yeah, okay, I love this. I would probably still wear it today, but not that iteration. Like, I didn't like the fabrics I chose. I didn't like the footwear choice. I had a belt. Like, I'm already thinking of like what I wore on my first day in uni and like literally same silhouettes. Okay. Same pieces, but like totally. Also I would have styled it differently and done so many things differently. So it is a trap. It's almost like the equivalent of seeking perfection in an outfit so, you know, in the. In the present moment, and you're seeking perfection in the outfit for the future. You're seeking for perfection for the future. And it's like, why the future's not here yet? Like, why do we care?
- [03:02]
Christina
Yeah.
- [03:04]
Alyssa
I don't know.
- [03:08]
Christina
What's that? There's like, a quote about something. It's like, if you're. Something about being. If you're thinking about the past, you're anxious. If you're thinking about the future, you're anxious. If you're in the present, then you're good. Yes. Yeah, exactly.
- [03:21]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [03:21]
Christina
So it's kind of. It kind of makes me think. Think about that. I do think that there are timeless pieces, and I think if that is what you want out of your closet, then having those timeless pieces, if, you know, if you want something that you can wear today and then you can wear it 10 years from now, and I couldn't tell the difference. Like, or, you know, or like you said, you're not going to cringe at that outfit because it is timeless. I think there's value in that, and it's helpful. I think it can help minimize decision fatigue. It can. It. It. I think it can really help, depending if that's your style, help really contribute to, like, an effortless feeling when you're in your outfit and when you're getting dressed. So. And Allison did. She does sort of comment on that. So we're not, like, what we're saying here. We're not on timeless dressing, timeless pieces at all. It's just more. I think what we're more questioning and what Allison is questioning here is the hyper focus on that. Like, you know, when capsule wardrobes were super trendy and they blew up on TikTok, everybody was focused on getting that, like, Pinterest infographic. Get the T shirt, get the jeans, get the loafer, get the leather jacket, get the trench coat. But I don't live in a place that even allows me to wear a trench coat for more than a week at a time, you know, so. And I think that's There's. There's a similar hyper focus when it comes to dressing timelessly and. And picking up timeless pieces. So. And what I think that hyper focus can do is sort of derail you from the idea of, like, does this actually feel good? Do I actually want this? And it. And it can. It can stifle the idea of creativity because there's something that you might want to try or that you're naturally attracted to, but it's like, oh, well, this isn't timeless or this is trendy, so I'm not going to get it. And I think that's when it can start to feel a little bit limited.
- [05:22]
Alyssa
Restrictive.
- [05:23]
Christina
Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah.
- [05:26]
Alyssa
There's. That makes me think of this really good quote. It's probably one of my favorite quotes by John Cleese, I think. And it says, nothing will stifle your creativity more than the fear of making a mistake. And it's. Right.
- [05:38]
Christina
I love that that's exact. I feel like that really embodies what that reel was trying to say. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:46]
Alyssa
You know, and it's like we are so worried about making. Making style mistakes, present or future, that we forget. We forget how low stakes fashion is. Like, okay, you wear a not great outfit for a day, that's fine. You haven't, like, you haven't ruined your life. You know, you can wake up and put on a different outfit tomorrow.
- [06:09]
Christina
Yeah.
- [06:09]
Alyssa
You know, I do think there's. There is. There are times and scenarios where seeking something timeless for the sake of future you is a good guidepost to have when you're making. Addressing decisions such as, like, a wedding, you know, somewhere where you know that your photo is going to be up on your wall above your fireplace for the next, like, 20 years. You know what I mean? Or if you're the mother of the bride or things like that, you don't want to experiment in those moments.
- [06:45]
Christina
But I almost feel like even that it makes me think of, like, weddings in the early 2000s. You know, it was like that strapless princess silhouette that was really hot. And then for a little while it was more sleek and minimal. And now I don't even know what it is. So there's even, like. And I think Allison also touches on this when she talked about. She uses, like, Carolyn Bessette as quiet luxury and minimalism as an example. She also used Sienna Miller as an example of, like, boho. And we're calling that time, like 2005 Timeless Boho, because it's coming back around. It's still trendy in that era. So, like, you know, in the early 2000s, the princess dress was a thing, and then, yeah, 2020, it was more sleek or backless or whatever, you know, so you just see more of those silhouettes in those times. So what we consider timeless can still be a product of that era and that trend. Yes.
- [07:45]
Alyssa
Yeah, good point. So you might think you're getting something timeless for these things, and then it'll still be very obvious when you. When it was I mean. Yeah.
- [07:57]
Christina
And I think that's okay. Like, right now, you know, what comes to mind for me are like the barrel jeans. I think. I don't think they're timeless, but I think they are an interesting silhouette and they can be timeless for some people. Because for some folks, maybe that's like, this is the only pair of jeans that I actually feel good in. This is like finally, you know, I had to live through the skinny jeans and the elasticated jeans and then straight leg jeans and high rise and low rise and wide leg. And now barrel is here and I. That's something that I actually feel good in or that flatters or like barrel or balloon. Like, you know, there's some that are really exaggerated, that feel like you're wearing western chaps or something, you know, like the Rickett style jeans. But there's some that are very subtle and it almost like gives you room for your hips or something. So for some people, I feel like that could be a timeless thing. Even though it's like totally now, you know, when.
- [08:54]
Alyssa
Well, when we talk about timeless in that sense, it's also. It goes hand in hand with the confidence to wear something that is no longer considered timeless.
- [09:05]
Christina
Yeah.
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Alyssa
Especially if it's something so identifiable to a specific era. Like. Like, I. I don't know. I haven't followed. I'm thinking of Sienna Miller. You know, was she dressing. Was she dressing boho? Even throughout all of this sort of minimal, quiet, luxury phase. I don't know. I wasn't following.
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Christina
I don't know. I don't follow her in that. Interesting. Yeah, it almost. Yeah. I'm like, curious if that was her style or if it was more just like the Islamic.
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Alyssa
Just what she was wearing.
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Christina
Chloe, kind of.
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Alyssa
Yes.
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Christina
Era, you know. Yeah.
- [09:41]
Alyssa
So it would be interesting to see because you. Can we talk often about this how, you know, if some. Something is truly timeless, if it's timeless for you and you'll wear it once the period of it being popular is over. But it's very easy to say, oh, I'm going to wear this in 10 years, even once it goes out of style, and then to actually wear something that, you know, is considered outdated, that is a silhouette that is so strongly tied to a certain point in history. Like, it takes actually quite a lot of courage and not really caring about what other people think in order to pull that off. So I think it's important to have that piece of the conversation too.
- [10:35]
Christina
Yeah.
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Alyssa
In that. And in that sense, that's why, like, I think confidence and not comparing is something that can really, like, set you free from that. That trap of timeless.
- [10:52]
Christina
It almost makes me think, like, that's how trends come back in some ways. Like, maybe there's someone who is so sure in themselves and in their style, and they don't get rid of anything, and one day they just grab the, you know, Balenciaga City bag. And now everybody.
- [11:08]
Alyssa
It's back. Tell me it's back.
- [11:11]
Christina
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I love it. Yeah.
- [11:14]
Alyssa
I mean, it's a great bag. You have one?
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Christina
Yeah, I do. Yeah.
- [11:18]
Alyssa
Have one.
- [11:19]
Christina
Yeah. She influenced me. Cena did.
- [11:23]
Alyssa
It was a good one, I think.
- [11:25]
Christina
Yeah, I think that was a good influence.
- [11:29]
Alyssa
Yeah. So, yeah, that's a good question, too. I often wondered that because I feel as though the barrel, another example of that. I feel like the barrel silhouette came almost entirely from Amy Smilovic at tibby.
- [11:43]
Christina
Yeah, like, I think so, too.
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Alyssa
That's the silhouette. Yeah. And she's been talking about that. Well, before the barrel, jean was like, what it is now.
- [11:53]
Christina
And she's very adamant that this. That pair of jeans is, like, not a barrel, because some, uh. Like, again, I think some barrels, and, like, the kind of iteration is it can be almost too exaggerated and.
- [12:09]
Alyssa
Right.
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Christina
I feel like those jeans are quite subtle and sculptural, which is what she wanted. But I feel like that mindset is really cool because I do feel like those jeans can be timeless because they're a classic wash. They're like. They fit really well. But it's just like, I'm not wearing this as a trend. I'm wearing this to feel something, to add something interesting to my outfit, to give it sculpture and give it shape. And what it makes me think of is, you know, if I'm shopping for a new pair of jeans, I can play it safe and buy the same straight pair of blue jeans just like I have. If I was focusing purely on timelessness, then if I was looking for a new pair of jeans, then I would shy away from doing anything outside of the box or, like, remotely interesting for me and just keep playing it safe. And that's where you can almost end up with, like. It's kind of like that. That feeling of just feeling almost too basic, like, you're. You've got all the. You've got all those staples covered, but I'm just wearing the same thing over and over again, and I. What I really like in, like, uniform dressing is you could wear the same combination, but there's just different elements, there's different details in those pieces, and I Think once you have your basics and your timeless pieces covered, that's where you can start to expand and play. And I think that's what those pieces are for.
- [13:36]
Alyssa
Get 100. They're kind of the glue that puts everything else together.
- [13:41]
Christina
Yeah, yeah.
- [13:43]
Alyssa
Even Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, if we use her, like, as the example, you know, she had like the A line, maxis, and the black turtleneck. But if you think about it, it was still very personal because she would add she had like a headband, which, you know, that comes and goes. That's very personal. The long trench coat, like a long leather trench kind of thing. Those aren't always on trend either. Right. But I think, yeah, that's where you layer in the personality for sure. And I think that's when people do get bored of their closets, is when it's only these basic pieces, whereas they're just the foundation.
- [14:28]
Christina
They are the foundation. And yeah, I mean, I would say that's what happened to me. And I think that's natural. Like, you can kind of. You figure out what your basics are for you and what, you know, what your go to pieces are, and then you can just slowly expand on it. Whether it's like adding accessories. Like, you know, you can add a cool, like, snakeskin belt or a bright red belt, you know, or something like studded or whatever, or. Or if I was playing it safe and really focusing on timeless, then I would only get the black leather belt, you know. Yeah. So. And how many versions of that do you need, you know?
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Alyssa
Yeah, like one. That's it. Unless you're a belt person, in which case you go like.
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Christina
Right.
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Alyssa
But yeah, and it's interesting. Like the. Yeah. When you. When you only wear those pieces, I think your look just starts to fall flat. So it's interesting. Even I'm thinking of people's closets who, you know, if they only have color and really like crazy interesting items, even in that sense, you're kind of limited. So because you need. You need those items that are the glue to hold it together. So it's just a matter of styling, and I think it's also a matter of understanding what variants you require. So you were talking about jeans, Christina. Like, you would get the, like a different silhouette instead of just a regular straight leg. You're a denim person, so it makes sense for you to get that variation and to not care if it's gonna. If it's den timeless or not.
- [16:13]
Christina
Yeah.
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Alyssa
But someone who's not a denim person, that's not gonna. That's not Gonna be their thing.
- [16:19]
Christina
You probably want the most timeless thing.
- [16:23]
Alyssa
One. And that's it. And so you really have to understand, I think, what your variance is in order for your closet to be timeless for you.
- [16:34]
Christina
Yeah. What are you gonna get the most benefit and use out of? Yeah.
- [16:39]
Alyssa
And then I think that's also where, like, breadth and depth of your closet comes into as well. Right. Like, I feel like it's almost again, like, it'll depend on your variants. Like, you'll have a deeper run of different types of denim, but maybe the breadth of all the different styles of items in your closet will be more. I don't know if that's making sense.
- [17:02]
Christina
Oh, yeah, that's.
- [17:03]
Alyssa
You know what I mean?
- [17:03]
Christina
Yeah.
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Alyssa
It's almost like when you're thinking of in a. When you're in a store. Like, you don't. You don't order so. So many sizes of one item, you know, Breadth and depth is an interesting piece of timelessness, I think.
- [17:16]
Christina
So can you expand? Can you dig? Yeah.
- [17:19]
Alyssa
Yeah. So it's. Yeah, so it's. I often think of, like, this is more for, like, capsule closets and stuff. I'm always thinking of. So in terms of a capsule, if we're thinking of keeping it well edited closet, in my opinion, I think it's. You've got to determine where you want the breadth. Do you want a whole bunch of different silhouettes? And then you only go deep, as in variants of color, variants of texture on a few key ones. So that's like breadth. Like, you have a whole bunch of different. Right. And then it's up to you what element you want a whole bunch of different. Um, and then you decide where you.
- [18:04]
Christina
Want to go to, like, your cat. Like, for. Let's say we're talking T shirts. So you can. If you want a lot of breadth and T shirts, you want, like, different silhouettes.
- [18:14]
Alyssa
You could have a graphic tee. You could have a baggy tee. You could have a super fitted baby tee. I don't know what other. You could have, like, a neutral tee. Cropped tea. Oh, yeah. You're the tea queen. So that's. That's like breadth in terms of silhouette kind of. Right. So let's assume. Pretend I didn't say graphic tee. And then the depth is in cropped tees. Okay. Do you have, like, all the colors of the rainbow depth? Right. So that's. That's kind of the difference. And I think a versatile closet is where you have more breadth in the element that excites you the most, because that's what you like to play with. So if we take your T shirt example, you love T shirts. So it's like, and me and you maybe say you like playing with silhouette. So, yeah, that's how you're gonna have a lot. Yeah, that's your timeless.
- [19:12]
Christina
I have a bunch of different white T shirts, but they're all a different. Like, I have a crop. I have a baby. I have a. I have a high neck. I have, like, the classic. And then I have, you know. So. Yeah, so I have breadth. So is that breadth? I have breadth.
- [19:28]
Alyssa
So you have breadth in your. In a white T shirt, for sure. Yeah. But. But then if we were to look at your closet as a whole, right? Then T shirt would be a category where you've got a lot of depth. Does that make sense? Because you've just got. You've got a whole bunch. So I think it's really just about figuring out where you want the breadth, where you want the depth, and in which elements you want them to go.
- [19:53]
Christina
That's a really handy way of thinking about it.
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Alyssa
I feel like it's like a matrix.
- [19:58]
Christina
It is a matrix, though, I think, because. Because you do have to look at, like, I feel like when you're. If you're really analyzing your wardrobe and the pieces that you love, the pieces that you tend to buy a lot because you get caught in the trap of, like, if I like it, then I'll just buy it in another color. And now you just have the same vibe in a bunch of different colors. And then you're like, why do I still feel so why do I feel like. Why do I still feel like something's missing? I thought I bought the perfect one, you know?
- [20:26]
Alyssa
Yeah, exactly. And that's because maybe color isn't your thing. Like, you know, so. So I think perhaps if we're talking about timeless and figuring out what timeless is for you, and, you know, we talked about these things being the glue. I think it's important to understand that the difference between those two or just, like, wear what you want. You know, we already talked about how it's like you get a do over with fashion every day.
- [20:55]
Christina
So you do.
- [20:56]
Alyssa
Do you have. Do you have outfits that you were, like, cringy? Do you look back on? You're like, yeah, we all do.
- [21:03]
Christina
But I think that's like a. Again, because I'm thinking back, we talked in the previous episode, we talked about. We were talking about athleisure and how you were saying you are super into wearing your leggings right now, and I can think. I literally have a photo of myself from like 2012 and I'm wearing leggings, but instead of full length Lululemon, they are. They're slightly cropped, like mid calf. And then I'm wearing like stinky round toe plastic ballet flats. I'm wearing a double layered long tank top, but the tank top is white and the tank top is black. And then I'm wearing like a plaid shirt. I gotta find this. Oh my God. You have gotta find this photo.
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Alyssa
Amazing.
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Christina
And I was like, oh, like, what am I? But you know, and. And then, you know, and the. The plaid shirt I'm wearing is like quite fitted and you know.
- [21:58]
Alyssa
Oh, one of those.
- [21:59]
Christina
So, you know, so as opposed to like what we would wear now is probably more oversized. But what I'm getting at is, you know what all separately, those are probably timeless pieces, but it's just more like the idea of everything together and maybe some of the silhouette. Like I feel like that mid calf legging is not something I would wear today. Almost like the Capri style, but that timeless in their sep. Like as separates their timeless together. It's very 2010 coated, you know, along with like my side part and my scene kid chunky highlights and you know, so, you know, timeless. But I was also very within the trend and like what everybody was wearing. I think I also had an owl necklace or like a lightning bolt necklace on. So there you go. Like that owl necklace does it? Yeah, right? Oh, yes. I love it.
- [22:54]
Alyssa
The owl necklace. Wow. I forgot about those.
- [22:56]
Christina
I think people are bringing those back too, so 100%.
- [23:00]
Alyssa
I was just gonna say I feel like I saw one the other day in a store.
- [23:03]
Christina
Yeah, it's crazy.
- [23:07]
Alyssa
I like how you said that though. Like how each individually those pieces are timeless. It's just how. How it was styled.
- [23:15]
Christina
Yeah, yeah. And like maybe the silhouette of the shirt is something that would change. And that's what I'm like. I'm picturing your first day of uni outfit. I like it kind of reminds me of like hit me baby, one more time. Like the very tailored, tight button down, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas now it would be a lot more. It might be more like loose and.
- [23:36]
Alyssa
An oversized and left untucked probably. You know, I think timeless dressing is a trap. I would agree. You.
- [23:51]
Christina
I do too. Again, I think it's when. It's when that's your only focus and when you almost like when we get so hung up on it and almost anxious about it. I'm a believer in being Your own gatekeeper when you're allowing things to come in. So, yes, they should hit some criteria. Yes, they should be a. Hell yes, that. Yes, you should be able to style the this, you know, with a bunch of different pieces in your wardrobe if cost per wear is like the thing that you want. Because sometimes we fall in love with like one off pieces that maybe we're not going to wear as much anyway. I digress. But yeah, so it's important to have those filters. But like, when timeless is your only one, I just feel like if all we do is focus on timeless pieces, you're just going to end up eventually buying the same thing over and over again. And that's when, like, that's when we can kind of set ourselves up for like, why, yeah, why do I have a closet full of clothes and nothing to wear? It's just because it's like the same tone, the same note. And if that works for you, because sometimes you can buy just the timeless pieces and be one and done. And like I said, there's a certain amount of effortlessness and ease and kind of just like, you don't need to, you don't need to brain so hard when you're getting dressed if you have those pieces and they serve you and they fit you and all of those things, you know. But it just makes me again, think back to my denim example. Like, do I play it safe and just keep buying the same pair of straight blue jeans? Maybe one has a slightly higher rise, maybe one is a slightly different wash, but it's just the same pair over and over again. So I think there's room to play and have some fun. And I think if you focus on things like texture and silhouette and fit, you can still have those timeless pieces that are just a little bit, that have those elements. And that's when it, when we start thinking about what is it that I want to feel? What is it that I feel is missing in this war, in this outfit? What is it that can make this feel more interesting to me? And I feel like when you feel interesting in an outfit and when it all just feels good, like, you're more likely to wear it again and like, you're more likely to make it a timeless piece in your wardrobe anyway. And you're not going to worry so much about like, oh, if someone took a photo of me today, like, what am I going to look like in 10 years from now? Yeah, you know?
- [26:12]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [26:13]
Christina
I think it's also okay to have eras in your style.
- [26:16]
Alyssa
Yes, that's a good Point, too. Yeah. Because it's also. If you look back on whatever era that is, it evokes memories about who you were. And I also think if we can look back on our previous selves, it also shows a lot of growth in how you've changed. So that's always just a nice thing to kind of honor as well, is how much you've changed.
- [26:42]
Christina
It's funny because earlier you mentioned, like, oh, my style hasn't really changed since university. I feel like it had. It can, but it. It does, but it doesn't. So there's, like, always the through line of yourself in there, or there's always kind of some kind of callback or some level of consistency, but you're still allowing yourself to explore and have fun and try new. Things change, and you kind of know, like, what's your style? Like, quote unquote, what's your style? What suits you, what fits your style? Words, if we're harking back to that, you know.
- [27:13]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [27:14]
Christina
So I also think about, like, I tend to dress in cycles, too. Like, right now I'm super into denim, but at other times I'm really into track pants.
- [27:24]
Alyssa
Right.
- [27:25]
Christina
Or. So, like, there's things that change in terms of what I gravitate towards in my own wardrobe.
- [27:33]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [27:33]
Christina
So there's, like, things that I feel like you need to consider that, too.
- [27:36]
Alyssa
That's a good point. What makes it that you, like, feel like gravitating to one or the other?
- [27:43]
Christina
I don't. I don't know. I feel like the weather and the seasons have something to do with it. I think in the winter, I want to be a little bit more cozy, and then other times I may be craving more structure or like.
- [27:56]
Alyssa
Yeah.
- [27:57]
Christina
Jeans always feel more dressed up to me, I guess.
- [27:59]
Alyssa
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [28:02]
Christina
So sometimes I want that more. Yeah.
- [28:06]
Alyssa
Yeah. That's cool. I think we shouldn't worry about being timeless so much and just honoring who we are and honoring the moment because, yeah, there's. There's something to be said for wanting to also participate in certain moments in time, like you said in certain eras. Right. Like, that's also part of the fun of being human.
- [28:25]
Christina
Yeah, I think so. And I mean, if you hated your outfit that you wore 10 years ago, just have a laugh, you know?
- [28:31]
Alyssa
Yeah, Just have a laugh. Enjoy the memory.
- [28:34]
Christina
Yeah. Yeah.
- [28:35]
Alyssa
Let us know your thoughts. Have you been on a quest for timeless and has it frustrated you, or is that totally your jam and you just, you know, love those staple pieces and wear them head to toe, and that's and that's perfectly you. I'm so curious. We're so curious. Give this video a thumbs up if you liked it, if you learned something new, and don't forget to find us wherever you get your podcasts. You can rate and subscribe that it always subscribe. It always helps us out. And you can also find us in our monthly subscription where we drop a special episode every month.
- [29:16]
Christina
So yeah, if you're on YouTube, you can just hit join and you get all the good stuff from there.
- [29:21]
Alyssa
Yeah. All right, we'll see you in the next one.
- [29:23]
Christina
Bye.
- [29:24]
Alyssa
Ciao.
- [29:25]
Sina
Thank you so much for joining in our conversation this week. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love it if you subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and Apple and leave us a rating and review. It's one of the best ways to support the sustain this podcast at zero cost to you.
- [29:42]
Christina
We're also a community led podcast, so if you have any questions for us, topic requests, or even guests you want to hear from, please send us a DM on Instagram usustainthispodcast. We read all of our comments and look forward to hearing from you.
- [29:55]
Alyssa
We hope you join us again next Tuesday where we'll talk about so much more than clothes. Ciao.