← Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
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Lemonada
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Talk about Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health. And it's made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation.
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I remember the first physical tantrum. I joked that he didn't like that he couldn't touch something. And I said, hey, sweetie, I have to take that away from you. And he was like, ready to throw it. And I felt like I was a SWAT team. Like, I was like, you know, you're going in and you're trying to like deescalate, so you're like putting your hand out. You're like, don't throw it, don't throw it. And he threw it. And it was a glass piece of like something that we had in our home. And I remember I was like, literally I didn't laugh, but I was like, I saw it coming, but I just had to let it go.
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I'm Dr. Susan Swick and this is Talk About Able. Today I'm speaking with Dr. Mona Amin, a board certified pediatrician and the founder of Peds Doc Talk, a parenting platform full of science backed guidance for raising children. On her podcast, YouTube channel and social media accounts, she covers everything from raising flexible eaters to good sleepers to talking with your child about bullying. She's also a mom to two young children herself, and she's open about the worries and challenges that she's gone through along the way. She really gets the issues that parents are facing. So we're going to get into what's actually happening during a meltdown, how parents can stay calm so that they might actually be curious and then help their child bear those big feelings without letting bad behavior slide. This is a conversation about helping kids bear discomfort so they can manage adversity and change, all while making them feel seen and know they are loved. It's really nice to meet you.
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So nice to meet you too.
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And thank you so much for taking some time to come and talk to me about what you do and a little bit about your family. We're gonna talk about your work and the incredible material and support that you have created for par, particularly of the youngest kids. But if we could, I'd love to get started by hearing a little bit more about you and your home and who's in your home.
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I love it. Well, I am so grateful to be here. And yes, I am a pediatrician. I've been doing that for 12 years now out of residency. And I have a amazing husband who is a physician as well. He is an er, physician, adult, er. And then I have two small children. So I have a six year old and a three year old, a little boy and a little girl, in that order. They are, I think, as many parents would say, the lights of my life. But they really do help me in my role as a pediatrician and in the work that I do because it's so close to what I do for a living. Right. I mean, all the stuff that I'm dealing with, not only illnesses, but the parenting moments, the refusals, the communication that I've had to learn, all of the things, it's just firsthand experience to supplement everything that I share with families. So I get to live it day in, day out, which is awesome.
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Oh, fantastic. Can you tell me a little bit about your beautiful children? If you had to describe their superpowers, and often our superpowers also include our kryptonite or our Achilles heel. But how would you describe them for each child?
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Yeah, it's so interesting because my children are literally copy paste of me and my husband. So my son is my mini me, not only by looks, but personality, and my daughter is my husband's mini me by looks and personality. So when I describe my son, it's gonna be like I'm describing myself. But he is very determined and that is his strength. And like you said, his Kryptonite, meaning if he has a vision of what he wants to get done, he will get it done. So for example, if he wants to finish a book, he will finish the book, meaning nothing's going to stop him. If he needs to eat, we have to really pull him away from a book. Same thing with his Legos. Like, he really loves Legos. And so when he's building, we have to give him some warnings that, okay, we need to transition out of it because when he's in hyper focus mode, there's no stopping him. And he will execute that quickly. And he's very determined. My daughter, I think the best thing about her is how easygoing she is and not in a pushover way. In a. Okay. Like literally we have to kind of teach her sometimes in the Kryptonite way of like, hey, sweetie, like, you can stand up a little bit for what you want, but like, she's like so easy breezy with schedules, with routine change. You can keep her up, she won't melt down like my son used to when he was her age. And it was just. It's fascinating to see two very different kids in the same family. Very nature versus nurture. And also because My husband and I are very similar. We each have our mini. So not only is it cool to see how I parent my son who's exactly like me, and we can kind of butt heads sometimes, but how I'm parenting my daughter. We've learned so much about communication as a couple as well by raising mini mes of our own. Little copy pastes. Yeah.
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Oh, that's so beautiful. That's such a lovely description of what the dynamics can be like, best case scenario. And also it sort of sets the stage for those moments that can sometimes be really difficult but instructive. Could you tell me a little bit about what your son. What it would look like when he would have a tantrum?
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It's so interesting because when you have your first right, you think that that's just the normal. Right. I know differently because I'm a pediatrician, that there's so many different temperaments, tantrums are gonna look different. But with my son, he would have these very big, volatile meltdowns. So it may include throwing of objects, it may include hitting and thrashing. It may include the feelings of complete Joy to, like, 10 minutes later, complete anger, which is exactly like someone I know myself. And so they were. They were physical, but they were very volatile. And so a lot of what I noticed with him is that the more I talk to him through that, like, for example, a lot of parenting philosophy talks about validation. If I validated too much, it would actually cause more problems. So I had to learn to be quiet and just give him some space but not go far. So it'd be one of those situations where I'd put my arms out and be like, hey, you need a moment. If you need me, come give me a hug. But if you need some space, take the moment. And we did that from a very young age. And so now when he's six, he doesn't have those extreme volatile meltdowns nearly as frequently. I mean, he's not throwing things anymore, but we had to teach him about that, right? It wasn't like we had to discipline that, but now he's. Because of the emotional regulation education we've done and the naming of feelings, at 6, he is much more able to tell me, mommy, I don't like how this makes me feel, or I don't like that you said that. Which is the beauty of having a six year old that you've taught emotional intelligence and regulation to. Because, yes, he will have meltdowns. He will cry. He will cry over things that I still am. Like Ryan. It's not that big of a deal. But he's still six, right? I mean, it is a big deal to him. My daughter, on the other hand. And so when you have a kid that was like that and you think, well, this is the norm, my daughter was the one who likes you talking her through things so, so different than my son. If I tried to talk my son through something, he would be like escalating in cries, just so overstimulated. And I realized later that my son has sensory differences. Like he doesn't like noise and stimulation. So that was just add to the chaos. Right. Talking. My daughter does not have that. And so when I'm able to say, Vera, you don't like that because of X, Y and Z, you're upset, aren't you? You want mommy to do this? And she would say in her tears, yes, mommy. No, mommy. Yes, mommy. And we were able to regulate her through talking and validating. But it was such an interesting difference because that's kind of going to show you how you're trying to teach your kid the same thing, right? You're trying to teach them that I'm here with you. I don't need to rescue you through your feelings, but I can just be there while you go through them. And we had to do that in two very different ways for our children. Right. With two very different temperaments. And I love preaching about this to my community that I can tell you that I want your kid to learn emotional intelligence, regulation and how to get through a tantrum. But you also need to understand that you need to know that kid in the room. You need to see that kid in front of you and understand, well, I'm doing this. It's not working. I need to think about maybe just take a moment and like stop talking or just give them some space. Because some kids need a different strategy to have the same outcome.
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Yep. Do you remember his first tantrum? Do you remember the very first one?
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He had a lot of frustration tolerance tantrums. And it started as early as nine months. And what I mean by that is he. And that's why I'm very big on teaching these principles early. You're not punishing your nine month old, Right. But you can teach them about emotions and all of that at a very young age. And one of the biggest things I noticed is when he couldn't figure out a puzzle at nine months, like, you know, like putting a jigsaw puzzle together, he would get very frustrated and he'd start crying. And so that to me was a meltdown. If you will. And a lot of that took just like showing him and just leaving him space to try, right? So like, hey, you're feeling frustrated because you can't get that puzzle. Try turning it around. And because he is the type of personality that loves control more than the average child, right? I told you that he is very opinionated. He likes things a certain way. Just like myself, I realized that, huh? He really likes control. A lot of kids love control. But he is that strong willed label that a lot of parents will put on their kid. Which I was like, okay. And so I had to work with that and say, okay, I'm not going to take this over for you, because taking it over for is going to lead to a meltdown. So I need to understand that I can show you and just give you space to try. And if you need me, I'm gonna let you try again with my help. And I can do that more with him. My daughter may come to me more for like, hey, mommy, I need help with this. But he would get so frustrated and melt down because he wasn't able to do it. And then I had to show him. And now, because we taught him about frustration tolerance and about how not everything's gonna be easy when he's doing a LEGO set. I remember at five years of age, he would start crying because he couldn't figure it out. And same thing you could think like, well, you should know this. I've taught you this for two years. But he's still only five. And now, because we've done the same strategies, hey, sweetie, I think you can do it. Why don't you try figuring it out? And if you need me, come to the kitchen or come to the living room and I will help you. Giving him that space to try to troubleshoot, right? To use his cognitive skills before he reaches for help has now made him be able to do 2,000 piece Lego sets at 6 years of age. Because even when he's getting frustrated, he knows that, okay, I'm gonna figure it out. And mommy, if, or daddy, if I need them are not gonna leave me floundering. They'll be there. And I remember the first physical tantrum. I joked that he didn't like that he couldn't touch something. And I said, hey, sweetie, I have to take that away from you. And he was like ready to throw it. And I felt like I was a SWAT team. Like, I was like, you know, you're going in and you're trying to like de escalate so you're like putting Your hand out. You're like, don't throw it. Don't throw it. And he threw it. And it was a glass piece of, like, something that we had in our home. And I remember I was like, literally, I didn't laugh, but I was like, I saw it coming, but I just had to let it go.
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Yeah.
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And at that point, it broke. Right. I can't tell him to put it together. But we deescalated. I was with him. I was like, I know you're upset. We can't throw. I held him. And now, you know, we got rid of that throwing behavior very quickly because of a lot of repetition of removing the object before he could get angry. Right. Like, noticing the before that's gonna lead to that action, I think, is a lot of thing parents miss, is that it's not just the meltdown. It's the dysregulation that's coming right before the meltdown or tantrum that if you can catch that, you can really de escalate even faster. And once I started to notice my son's de escalation strategies that work, and notice, like, what caused him to get dysregulated and notice that dysregulation doesn't mean the meltdown. It doesn't only mean throwing. It means talking fast. It means going around in circles. It means throwing himself onto a couch. I know that. Okay. This kid needs sensory regulation right now, and I need to regulate him before it leads to the meltdown and the tantrum. And I think a lot of parents think that the meltdown is only about the moment, but it literally is looking for those small cues in your kid before that meltdown happens that if you can catch, oh, my gosh, like, you can really get them and escalate them down to a level of regulation before it leads to that combustion like a volcano erupting.
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We're going to take a short break. When we come back, Dr. Mona pinpoints what it is about tantrums that can trigger parents and what to do when you lose your cool. We can talk to kids about big feelings, but what matters is it has to line up with what they're feeling and what they're seeing. And it sounds like you've done a beautiful job of embodying the things that you end up having to sort of talk about and manage with your kids. I know you've said scary parents are scared parents, but can you say a little more about what that means and what that means to you?
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Yeah. So when we talk about a scary parent being a Scared parent. That terminology is something that my therapist has said to me. So I want to give her credit, even though I can't name who she is. But she. You know, we talked about how when we are scary to our kids, and I'm talking about yelling, I'm talking about threats, I'm talking about that big anger. Like, imagine a little kid with a bigger body in front of them yelling at them. How scary must that be? Like, imagine if you are five, eight, like myself and a seven footer is in front of you yelling and screaming at you. That's really scary for a child.
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Yeah.
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So what's behind that is not the angry mad parent. What's behind that is that parent is feeling scared for some reason. So maybe they're feeling scared of a lack of control. They're feeling scared that they're not a good parent. They're feeling scared that they're feeling disrespected. Like there's a feeling behind that emotion. Like, you are not yelling at your kid because it's your kid, because if you did that, you'd be yelling at every other person that you meet on the street, but you're not yelling at your coworker, you're not yelling at your friend. Your kid is triggering something inside of you that breaks you down and makes you want to yell at them and make you want to do that thing. And they don't deserve that yelling. They really don't do. They do things that are sometimes stupid and idiotic. 1000% have I yelled? 1000%. But the point is, is that if the yelling is becoming your norm in communication and not the exception, because I have had to yell and there's been some yelling where I don't apologize because I'm like, listen, you needed this moment. You are not listening. We're done. But if that's, that's the exception for our family, if that's the rule where constantly feel you are having to raise your voice to communicate, that's not communication. Because imagine you having to communicate with your loved one, like a peer, like your husband or a partner yelling all the time. No one wants to be yelled at. Like if my husband talked to me with a tone every time, oh my gosh, like, I wouldn't want to be married. Same thing. A child does not want to be spoken to that way. So when you become scary to your child and what I mean by that again is the yelling, the anger, the threats, think about what is it underneath that I don't like in this moment? Is it that I Feeling like I'm being disrespected? Is it feeling like I'm losing control of a situation which welcome to parenting, you can't control everything, or is it that I am just feeling helpless and I feel overwhelmed because that is the scariness that's causing you to become scary to your child. It's not you're a horrible person. It's not that you are a bad parent. And we need to take more ownership and more self love and compassion, understanding that in order to break all these cycles, it requires us to tell ourselves, I am not a bad human. I am learning. And I can learn just like I teach my child about these things. Even though I'm in my 30s, 40s, 50s, I can continue to learn to be more regulated and a better version of myself for my kids. But frankly also because I don't like being angry. Like I want to be able to have a better relationship with anger than I did 20 years ago.
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When you think about kids behaviors or kids tantrums, being such a person, potent trigger for a variety of parents. So for some of us it's because of a trauma we experienced in our own childhood. For others it may be because we have a short fuse, because we haven't been sleeping well, because we're really stressed about work or for other reasons. In your work, what's the sort of common thread for why a child's maybe predictable dysregulation, right? They have to be dysregulated before they learn to regulate. Why does it unspool us parents so quickly?
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It's so interesting because the same answers for this is kind of why children get into meltdowns, right? Like it's so interesting because when you think about a child and why they may melt down, right? So temperament. So some kids feel bigger, right? Some kids adapt to change slower sensory overload. So some kids process sensation at different volumes. Bright lights, noisy restaurants cause them to be dysregulated. For kids, obviously this doesn't apply to adults. But development, right? Just in general development, yes. Some of us, right, Being rushed, testing limits, all that. But the two that I'm gonna lean into is our temperament and our sensory overload. And I think so much about our own dysregulation and our own sensory stimulation that causes us to not be able to act in the moment as we wanted to act and thought we would act, right? And the prime example I think about is me and my husband. My husband, like my daughter, temperament wise, is very calm, cool and collected. It takes him a lot to Yell. It takes him a lot to verbally react. Like, I have not seen this man yell in, like, maybe twice in the last 13 years. And that is incredible, right? But that's a temperament. That is a factory setting, as I describe it, right? And so when we talk about this thing, like, what is it that's causing us to just get into that moment of, like, oh, my gosh, I can't handle it. I think it's a few things, but we can't forget the sensory overload and the temperament. That, to me, is the biggest thing. But I think a lot of parents feel out of control in a situation. So the out of control also comes, though, with dysregulation, right? So if you're dysregulated, and I'm gonna give this analogy, because I think this will help parents understand. If you had a beautiful day and your job was great, your boss was not annoying, and you get stuck in traffic, you're just gonna listen to the music and you're just gonna be okay in the traffic. And same situation, different regulation coming into the moment, right? You're regulated. You had a great day. No one messaged you annoying things. No one was sick. No one. Everything was good. You slept. All of it's good. You're just going to go with the flow, with the drive. Same scenario, another day. Your boss was down your back, you were running late on meetings. Your husband is yelling at you about something on the side. You are now getting into a situation, which is the traffic, where you are now dysregulated. Okay? And now what's going to happen? Oh, my God. Why isn't everyone moving? Like, come on, honking. You may do the things because you're dysregulated. Same thing. Let's use your child's meltdown as traffic, right? If they're melting down, you're going to have moments where it's going to feel like that calm moment where you're going to handle it well. And then maybe you're going to have moments where you're dysregulated in traffic and you're reacting, you, as a parent, have to think, am I more the first one where I'm in, like, a situation where I'm like, okay, I can handle your feelings, I can handle your dysregulation because I'm regulated, Or am I in the latter where I'm completely dysregulated? Because if it's the latter, where you are like that angry person in traffic, that is not the situation. That is you. And what you're bringing to that moment. And that is when I tell parents that think about all the things. Now, if it's a mother, I'm gonna name this very, very truthfully, women still take a lot of the mental load of childre even in 2026. Is it that you are handling so much on your plate that you are overwhelmed with the to do list in your head that your kid asks for one more thing that you're snapping? Is it sensory stimulation? Could we put some earbuds in or something to reduce that sensory overload? Lower the volume in a car. And you can't control your temperament, right? But maybe you can work on skills with a therapist. But that's the kind of framework that I say, because we are bringing ourselves into a situation that we cannot control what our kids are going to do. But what we can control is our response to it and not in a well, suck it up. Figure it out, buttercup. It's a think about your normal here. Think about the way you lean. And then you have to think, if you are entering dysregulation state more times than not, that you wanna honk in traffic and that you wanna be cranky with your kid. Think about what it is you need to unpack with that situation. Why is mother rearing, father rearing? Why is it that your kid is triggering you more than anyone? And that may take some journaling, that may take some pattern recognition, that may take some therapy. But understanding what is it that I'm bringing to this moment? Because it's never about the moment. It's, yes, your kids are doing something annoying. I'm not denying that. But you know this because you've probably reacted differently in the same situation. And that's how you know that. Yes, your reaction is going to stem how they further react to you. That is psychology. That is energy, right? Like they can feel a dysregulated adult. I will tell myself Outlaw Loud to myself, I am feeling really overwhelmed right now. Or I'll tell my son, mommy's feeling a little overwhelmed. But you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna dance it out. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make a funny sound with my face. So what I did now is I just okayed my feeling and I showed my son what I do to channel that. And then you get the two for one, right? Like you're regulating your nervous system. So whether it's blowing bubbles, like with your mouth, whether it's making a funny sound or singing something, verbal, vocal, movement. But you have to find what regulates you. Because going back to temperament and factory settings, everybody has different wiring as to what is regulating for them before they enter a situation that may be power struggles, that may be all of that, so that you don't feed into those struggles that you are actually leading them through, getting them through what you need and just not adding chaos to the fire.
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B
I love your description of finding ways to acknowledge big feelings without it becoming a therapy session with your child. Because that doesn't work. Cause in the midst of big feelings, it's just artificial to try to say let's talk about how we feel, which is. It just isn't gonna. It's not gonna land. And yet being able to sort of. You're modeling that you're bearing big feelings without having to solve them. And it seems. I wonder if you have found a way to talk with parents about what a tantru. Because it sounds like one of the beautiful things that you've done is not to suggest anger is bad, ambition is bad, exhaustion is bad, we'd like to prevent it, but you can't always. And instead to set a different frame around what's happening with a tantrum in your two year old, in your six year old, or even in yourself, which it's not quite a tantrum, but it's that sort of bubbling over when the emotions sort of just bubble over the top and they take you out of that thinking part of your brain down into your reacting part of your brain. Do you have a way of talking about it with parents that helps set a new frame around it so they can understand a tantrum without having to become a shrink in that moment with their child.
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I love this and I think across the board, a tantrum, whether it's from an adult or a kid, let's be honest, is energy discharge. So whether it's me feeling overwhelmed and I need to get that energy. So energy. The definition of energy in this description is anger, overwhelm, body feeling so tight, tense. And you think about it, for a child, it can look more physical early, right? Because they don't have the verbal vocabulary. So they need this energy to go somewhere. It is a nervous system getting so overwhelmed in that moment. Whether it's because they didn't get what they want, whether it's because you didn't listen to them, whether it's because for whatever reason they're tired, cranky, we don't even need to know the reason. Their energy in their nervous system needs to go somewhere. We don't have to stop the crying. You know that you don't want to say, stop crying, stop crying. Yes. I want to teach our kid how to move through the crying. But I also look at crying as an emotional energy discharge, too. Like my son, when he's feeling overwhelmed, he's a crier just like his mother, right? And I can see when my son wants to cry, and I tell him, sweetie, you can cry. And the moment I give him permission to cry, waterworks. Waterworks in my arms. And I think it's so beautiful to look at that all of this is energy discharge, right? So your kid on the floor is trying to get all this nervous system energy that's just not serving them well at that moment out of their system so they can regulate your kid screaming at you for a cup is energy discharge because they didn't get what they wanted. And when you can look at it as an energy discharge, you can say, just like energy needs to go somewhere, it has to leave. So I can bottle it up and tell them, don't feel. Don't do this. Or I just guide them through, redirect the energy. So what I teach my kids a lot is, you know, hey, you. I'm not gonna. You don't have to sit for an hour crying. Let's go take a walk. Let's go. Look at this. Like, I think about healthy redirection as they get older, it may be emotional. And then in an adult, same concept that when I'm irritable, right when I'm yelling, that is my energy of overstimulation, of overwhelm. My brain is packed with 10,000 things trying to find an outlet to get out.
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Out. We're going to take one more quick break, and we'll be right back with more from Dr. Mona. I know when it gets physical, it often sends a lot of parents right into sort of fight or flight mode. How do you guide parents about where to begin when it gets physical?
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Yeah, I think the number one rule is you are not a punching bag. I always say to my families, because that will make you realize that your safety and the safety of everyone around you is the number one priority over your child. What I mean by that is you were gonna get to all the things we're gonna talk about, but you need to protect yourself. You know, the phrase goes, is that all feelings are welcome, not all behaviors are right. So not. You can't. You can't just let them hit you. Now, in these situations, I do believe, because that if the hit is coming from a dysregulated place, which in most likely in your toddler age, it is some nine months old, will hit playfully. That's different. But let's talk about the anger related hitting in that situation. It is a quick naming of what is not allowed, right? Or what you want to do. So like, hey, you're upset. You cannot hit me. You're not going to say you cannot hit me because of this. Because they're not hearing that, they're not hearing all of that flood. They're hearing a boundary. And then if they try to hit you again, you're saying, if you try to hit mommy, I have to hold your arms. Other option, if you try to hit me, I have to put you down. And if they try to hit you, this is the key that parents don't do. A lot of the times you need to follow through on your boundary because if you don't follow through, they're not gonna take your word for it. So many parents don't follow through on their word. And what that leads to is the child not trusting your word. And they're not gonna listen to anything you say. If you say, if you guys don't stop screaming, I'm gonna turn the car around. And you don't actually turn the car around, your kid's gonna get smart and understanding that you're just giving them empty threats, right? This is a healthy consequence that you are not allowed to hit me. If you hit me, depending on the size and age of your child, what I did for my son, because he was younger, I would hold him and I'm like, hey, I'm not gonna let you go until your body relaxes into mine. And I would hold him in the biggest bear hug until he let that energy out, right? So the energy would go out. He would almost go limp in my arms because he was so relaxed and I would just hold him in a hug. But if you're not able to physically hold your child, it's going to be separating them, giving them a moment. And then of course, when the time is right, when it's regulation time and everyone's calm, revisiting the moment and discussing what can we do differently, right? Because you're not gonna be able to teach them coping skills in the moment. So then it becomes, I noticed that you were earlier, you were very angry and you hit mommy. That's when you can say, we don't hit. Instead, we can give me a hug, you can hug a pillow. This is kind of the way that we can get them to redirect the energy. But you're not that punching bag. And that compassion is what we teach our kids. When my son is melting down over something that my daughter isn't, I teach my daughter. It's okay. Ryan is different. Like he's gonna have this. And I think that's so important from a sibling standpoint too.
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B
That's right. It sounds like one of the keys is to be thoughtful. Be quick and clear, as concise as you can about what's going on. Be thoughtful over time about whether or not you're rewarding the sort of escalation. I know that for little kids, parents attention is like cash. They love it. And so it's good to be mindful of when to do if it's smaller, when to do some strategic ignoring, and instead give them cash for being good. But once they in a space where they're upset about something and that energy is bubbling over, having some strategies to get the energy out seems so wise. I wonder, do you find that using words is more useful as kids get older? So if you have some school age kids who for whatever reason, after sports practice, trying to do homework, an 11 year old kid all of a sudden is just off the wall or is really angry or is punching the wall so often they're a little less likely to hit or bite than toddlers, but they can still lose it sometimes. How do you guide parents of those school age kids?
- [31:46]
A
I think one of the things I want parents to remember is that when it's an older kid, we can be more likely to have less patience with them because we expect more of them. And I noticed that happened with my son when he became 5 and he was still having these big meltdowns at 5. I was like, in my head I was like, you know better. And I even remember saying to my son once like, you' you should know better. I mean, and I took that in my head, I was like, oh my gosh, like, how horrible that. I mean, it's fine we say things right, but think about it like they're still learning and they still don't have a fully developed brain. So first recognize that it's okay if you've said that. It's okay if you felt that. So I agree that the younger the kid is, the less words the better. However, you're now gonna have to take in your child's sensory style, temperament like we described, what's huge across all ages and becomes extra huge older is not only the words are better, but how you connect with those words. So just say your child is being very defiant Our first idea for many parents will be like, oh my gosh, you never listen. What's going on. So I always talk about just getting more curious and more relatable with your kid. Hey, I noticed that you're finding this very frustrating. I wanted to talk to you about how you're feeling. So we're noticing and then opening up a conversation about the feeling, not the behavior, because we're trying to understand from our older child where they're coming from. I really believe that's something you can start as young as four or five and kids will always gravitate towards connection and not authority. So when you look at kids like they want to be with the people that make them feel good. They want to be with someone who's caring for them. They really want to love you, they want to be loved. And if you can hone in on that and remind them that you love them and remind them that you are safe space and show it with your actions, that is going to be so vital in the school age up group. You know, your younger kid won't understand when you ask them all that. They'll know it from your closeness, from you responding and like talking a little bit. But yeah, like, as they get older, the communication and the verbiage becomes more of like hearing what you're saying, asking them how they feel, and if they do not want to talk to you, say, hey, you know, I felt the same way before. Like I do a lot of relatability when it makes sense. Like my son didn't want to start first grade and he was like, I'm really scared. Rather than saying, oh Ryan, come on, like it's first grade, you just did kindergarten. Hey, why are you afraid of first grade? I just don't know if I'll have any friends. And I said, that is actually a very, very true feeling. You know, when I started school, I also felt nervous about not having new friends. And sometimes it took a week or two weeks to find a friend. And then I found just one friend. And that's all you need, Ryan. You just need one good friend. And, and you can always come to mommy and daddy when you need it, like if you're struggling or anything. And the next day at summer camp for first grade, he was like, mommy was so good, I made a friend. And I said, that's the open communication we wanna create, right? This isn't about telling them what to do and being the leader leader. It's about, I wanna be a strong, sturdy leader where my kid actually wants to come and Talk to me about hard things.
- [34:49]
B
Yeah. And the way our children learn to better regulate themselves, to manage adversity, to manage change, is by. In smaller serving sizes. And when we as parents can show up and be reasonably calm and curious about what's going on. I love that story. Cause you are doing two things. You're showing Ryan that you're pretty confident he's gonna be able to manage this. Not alone. You're not just being like, good luck, we'll see you later. You're with him, but you're confident that this is gonna be manage. Manageable. He's going to be able to manage it. And you're modeling that you can stay calm. Even though he's the most important thing in the world to you. You want him to be okay. But you can hold some heavy feelings enough to be curious, enough to unpack, learn, develop some language. And after that, you may think about some strategies like you described. That's so lovely. Have you thought about or talked with parents about how to bring that kind of calm and curiosity and also compassion to themselves when they haven't nailed it in the moment, when they've popped their own cork, when Mount Vesuvius has exploded, and then afterwards they're like, I can't believe I. I can't believe I said that to my child.
- [36:23]
A
Yeah.
- [36:24]
B
What kind of things have you offered to parents?
- [36:26]
A
One thing I commonly say in a lot of my messaging on my content is that that parenting is a lifelong game. Right. I think what happens is we commonly think that these one offs, right? And let's put it on the table. Like, maybe your listener has yelled seven times this week. And they're like, it's not a one off. It's happening more than not. What I would say to you is, you are always capable of change if you want to change. I can't help the parent that doesn't have any insight, that doesn't want to change. And that's a hard reality for me. As someone who really cares deeply about the connection and of parents to their children, I cannot guarantee that you're gonna have a perfect child that listens to you because that's not what we're raising kids to do. We're not raising soldiers that just do what we say. Yeah. We are raising humans that feel safe in their own voice, in their own heart, and know that there's someone who has their back. Right. And so when you can look at it as a lifelong game of like, I will make mistakes, this does not define my entire parenting story. I also, you Know there's a threat that goes out there, and I hate this threat. And it's important to bring up where people are like, well, you better be careful. Your kid's gonna need therapy. And I'm like, you know, as someone who goes through therapy and has a very healthy relationship with my parents now, I don't think therapy should ever be a threat. What I would hope, and I hope every parent listening would want, is that if my son or daughter ever came up to me and said, mom, I think I need to see someone about my. My anxiety or depression or I'm feeling a certain way, I am the best parent in the world when I accept that and I get him the help he needs or get her the help she needs. The parent who dismisses, the parent who's like, no, why would you care? The parent who says, well, why? I raised you like I didn't raise you wrong. That is the parent I worry about. The parent who knows that this is a lifelong game, that we can't do everything perfect. And the reason we can't do everything perfect is we are now raising a human being with a different psychology than us. Right? The relationship I have with my daughter is different than the relationship I have with my son. I could do the exact same thing with my daughter, but for my son, he may perceive it completely different and not like it. I can't control how my children are gonna perceive what I do. What I can control is that I can always be that safe space for them by the connection, by the words that I use, by the things that we're talking about in this conversation, so that when they get older, when they leave our home, they're gonna want to come back to us because we have created a safe space where they know that they are valued for the kid, that they are the adult that they're becoming, and that I will always have their back. Their dad will always have their back. And so when you can look at these moments as micro moments, these are not the definitive reasons of your parenting scorecard, right? You yelling. You like, threatening them when you told yourself you would not threaten them. And you know that you don't want to do this sort of discipline, and you did. I have been there, too. Like, in the book I'm writing in the future. Like, I'm talking about how I do it, too still. Like, I have given threats. I still know that I'm a beautiful parent. Because, again, we're trying to get it where those are the exceptions and not the rule, but the only way they can become the exception and not the rule is that you give yourself some grace and understand that this is a long game and that you can change. And by the best thing we can do is model it for your kids. Like we've talked about so much, right? When you start to name it, when you start to show your kid it, you're gonna realize the impact it has on your child's behavior. And then you're gonna realize, well dang, like my son remembered when I said it's okay mommy that you are sad today. It's okay mommy that you yelled. I get frustrated too. Like my 6 year old will tell me that now and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like this is it. Like I am not perfect. I yell, I have irritability, I'm tootie at times. But I am a very loving mother and that is what my kids will remember more than anything. And that's what I want you to remember. Like, think about the 25 year plan you want for your kid and not the day plan of you yelling.
- [40:15]
B
That's right. Well, Dr. Mona, I'm glad that you and your podcast and your website and your content are out there and available for parents that might otherwise feel alone and that there are wonderful resources for them so they can be a resource for their child. I appreciate you taking the time to come and join us us and talk about managing tantrums, raising our children even in those moments that feel like we need three PhDs just just to manage a volcanic eruption and realizing that actually is parenting.
- [40:52]
A
No, no degree in the world will just get you into the moment until you're actually living it, learning what you need to do in that moment for yourself and all the baggage you need to undo to to be that more calm, present parent most of the time.
- [41:07]
B
If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. You can listen to Talk about Able completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive content, like even more helpful advice and tips on the challenges parents are facing. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Talk about Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health, and it's made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation. Together we're committed to helping families talk about the issues that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even about the most challenging subjects. Children build the skills they need to flourish because when families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes talk about able. The show is produced by Hannah Boomershein and James Barber. Our senior producer is Muna Daenish. Mixing and sounding design by James Barber. Kristin Lepore is our VP of Content Development and Jackie Danziger is Head of Content. Maggie Crowshaw is our senior Director of Partnerships. Executive producers include myself, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Special thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see see you next week.