← Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
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- [00:02]
Dr. Susan Swick
Lemonada Talk About Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health. And it's made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation. I'm Dr. Susan Swick and this is Talk About Able. On today's episode, I have a chance to dive into the mailbag and respond to some questions from listeners. We get to talk about how to help your overachieving child, what to do when your parenting approach clashes with that of another parent, how we can make sure two differently abled siblings feel equally supported, and what to do about the incessant question of how much screen time is too much screen time. We've got a lot to talk about, so let's get right into it.
- [01:02]
Caller with son with ADHD and anxiety
Hi Dr. Swick, I'd really like your guidance on how to help my son navigate not just ADHD and anxiety, but also depression and the way those experiences can start to shape how he feels. He's a Black boy. He's 13 years old. He goes to a very demanding private school in the D.C. area. He does very well in school and sports, but he also puts a lot of pressure on himself to do well in all the things. And I'm worried that behaviors that are tied to ADHD or anxiety, like impulsivity or frustration, they can sometimes be misinterpreted or responded to more harshly, especially because he's a black boy. Again, he does really well, gotten all A's. But sometimes when he feels he's not the best in both sports and academics, he starts to spiral and, and those thoughts have resulted in some serious depression. And also sometimes with teachers or coaches feeling like he's not focusing or the cultural context I feel really plays a part here. So my question is, what are the most effective ways to help him build tools to manage those moments in real time, but also to protect his sense of self? And how can I proactively and my husband teach him to process those experiences without internalizing them or spiraling? And maybe ways that we can talk to teachers and coaches about this and also making them aware of the cultural context. Thank you.
- [02:53]
Dr. Susan Swick
Wow, what an incredible question. I think it would be most helpful if we could start with anxiety. And in particular you said something really powerful where you said he gets all A's, but he still wants to be the best. And I want to be able to talk about perfectionism and the idea that perfectionism is actually a very typical phenomenon of capable, anxious school age kids. And it's a challenge. It's actually a problem we as parents often delight in our kids who are perfectionists because we don't have to nudge them as much to practice their instrument or do their homework. But actually, perfectionism is a cruel taskmaster, as you are experiencing. And what I wanna say is celebrate what is healthy inside perfectionism, which is ambition. Ambition is not something you can teach or really a skill to build. We can maybe nurture it, but if he comes with ambition, that's a fantastic. We want to honor it and nurture it. What he will need your help in particular with is to reframe challenges learning in a way that's going to sustain and nurture his ambition. So what I would say the new rule of thumb for you and his dad is going to be thinking with him about how to become best friends with failure. Start focusing on each failure is actually where the money is for him. And how is he going to learn how to improve what he does, how to refine what he does? There may be a really easy example for this with him if he's into sports. Kids who are playing sports can get really comfortable with practice. Kids may spend a lot of time practicing their footwork, shooting hoops, practicing one on one, and you don't expect to nail every single thing. When you practice, you want to get it wrong and you pick up the ball and you do it again. If you're shooting a hoop, you don't sink it, you try again and you sort of refine. Maybe where you're standing, maybe your wrist position, I mean, maybe because I'm clearly not a coach, but you pay attention to all the little things that you can adjust to get better and better at something that matters to you. That is the nub for a perfectionistic kid. We want to help him shift his focus away from outcomes. Those will come, but he has to start falling in love with the process and with always getting better. And have his ambition B to be an extraordinary performer, pointed towards greatness because he's so good at picking himself up and dusting himself off and adapting. And it helps for you to praise effort, praise the character he shows, and to acknowledge and honor that all that effort also is exhausting. So it's really important for him to also have time where he gets to relax and recharge. Okay, so that's perfectionism. You want to directly address that first. Then let's add on the fact of adhd. The other pieces that really common with adhd, of course, is inattention when he's not interested and maybe a little less impulse control than his peers. So when he is frustrated or anxious, as he's bound to be if his anxiety is channeling into perfectionism, it's more likely to curse, to get frustrated, to yell, or to hit himself in the forehead. You just want to be aware of those things first. It makes sleep, exercise, all of those things that help manage some of his inattention even more important. And puberty can be adding to this mix too. In some ways, this is about you being able to talk with him and just acknowledging how extraordinary it is for him to find ways to stick with things that are challenging, to redouble his efforts, helping him focus on what is in his control, helping him to internalize that. It is hard sometimes for him to manage frustration and because he expects so much from himself, and to help him develop strategies for when he needs to take a break. Break when he needs to do a little small recharge in the middle of practice or homework, giving him language for that. So he isn't just feeling like a failure because he didn't meet his standards, and then like a failure because he yelled or cursed or got angry, and especially if he then got in trouble at school. And then let's talk about the cultural component, as you mentioned, and acknowledge that racism is real. Racism is a structural issue and it should not be your son's or your challenge to repair it or fix it. And I'm loathe to offer a psychological solution for a structural problem, especially a historic and unjust structural problem like racism. That said, it's real and it is important for you and your husband to help equip him and help model for him how to move through the world and talk about this. And while we aim for structural changes and improvements, they will take time. And I appreciate that you want to help his coaches and his teachers. Be mindful, because I'm sure his coaches and teachers, let's say 99% of them, are fans of his because he's smart and capable and hardworking. Maybe there's 1% that are irredeemable and we're not going to make a difference with them. But with the other 99% helping to complicate their thinking is going to be really important. And what I would do is remind them, if you can, in parent teacher conferences or in a quick meetup with the coach, that he is a perfectionist. Often teachers and coaches actually don't know that their students, that the kids they're working with are anxious. It's a really private internal symptom. And perfectionism to them may look like great work ethic and they want 100 kids like that. But helping them to see that he experiences a lot of worry, a lot of anxiety. He holds himself to exceptionally high standards and when he doesn't meet them, he's a little more prone to get frustrated. And because he has adhd, he's a little more prone to have that slip out of his mouth. So remind them of that bigger picture that is so actually admirable in a way that he's worried about being the best. And then maybe remind them that he is going to be prone to internalizing a story about himself. And in particular in a culture where there are so many differences in how kids of different races and backgrounds are treated, you really want to think with them about how to equip him to not internalize a different story. That way you could, I think, expand their thinking, not excite too much defensiveness from them and invite them to be your ally and his ally in how they help him to manage the frustration, the setbacks, the continuous learning that is the day to day work of being a very smart, very capable 13 year old boy with ADHD, anxiety and perfectionism and doing that while being black in America. Inviting them to be your ally and his ally I think is the key key, because when they can then be patient and stick with him, that's going to be magic for him to start internalizing patience with himself. He is capable of greatness, but greatness is about how he cultivates a capacity to be continuously learning, continuously improving, doing it in a way that inspires his friends, his teammates, even his coaches, his teachers and his parents, and lets him also enjoy. If he can enjoy the process as well as the outcome, then he's really cooking with gas. Thanks for calling. We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, we're going to hear about how to handle a very delicate situation made even more complicated by the actions of another parent. Stay with us.
- [12:49]
Andrea (caller about Lucas)
Hi, my name is Andrea and me and my husband Ben have an 8 year old kid named Lucas who's in the second grade. Lucas became really close with another kid in kindergarten first grade, and the two of them would play together on the playground after school and have occasional play dates at each other's houses. The friendship cooled a bit at the beginning of second grade. About six months after the last play date, I got a call from the mom telling me that at that play date there had been what she would describe as inappropriate sexual behavior. Apparently the boys touched each other's penises, which she had Heard from her son, now six months later, after pressing him on it. So Ben and I had a long talk with Lucas and went over body boundaries without shaming him for something that was completely developmentally appropriate. It's really important to us that he not have any feelings of shame or that he and his friend did something wrong here. So her views, the kid's mom's views did not align with ours, and she was unhappy, totally unhappy with how we handled it. So the mom demanded the school keep them apart, and we agreed that it would be better if they didn't sit together. We talked to Lucas about it without too many details, and he understood that the two of them couldn't play together. So at this point, months have gone by, and Lucas tells us that they've been playing together again at recess and they're friends. But as they become friends again, we're wondering how to talk about why the two of them can't sit together at school or have play dates or go to each other's birthday parties. You know, we try to be as open as possible with him, but since the issue deals with sexual concepts we don't think he's ready for, not to mention sexual shaming, we're at a total loss of how to proceed. But it feels really bad to say nothing. So any advice on this?
- [15:04]
Dr. Susan Swick
Wow, this is a tough one. Andrea and Ben, I'm sorry that you and Lucas are going through this. It sounds so stressful to be worried about your child, to be at the center of a sort of charged disagreement with another family, Especially in a public setting of school that's really meant to be an oasis for our kids. So first, I just want to start with that, just honoring that, how stressful a situation like this can be. And I would agree that actually we want to think about how to support Lucas and make this talk aboutable with Lucas, but starting with his friend's parents. Degree of distress, Having experienced developmentally normal exploratory play as sexualized and dangerous, it's going to be really hard to explain that to. And it would have been hard with a kindergartner. It's going to be really hard still. But I would put a pin in it because it may come back around as he gets older, as he starts to approach puberty. And I guess I would say let's maybe first start with yourselves with you and Ben, and be open with each other first of what you're worried about, because you don't want to be surprised when you're talking with Lucas with things that you're worried about and whether it's is Lucas maybe gay and he likes boys, you know, might not have been sexual but it still was exploratory and particularly interesting for him is he precocious and it was a little bit sexual. And I'm not offering these as the truth. I'm saying for you and Ben to have a Lucasfree conversation where you get to just articulate what if anything, you might actually be worried is underneath some of your concerns for Lucas. And it may just really be that you see Lucas wanting to be with his friend and being confused about why they can't sit together and they can't go to each other's birthday parties which is confusing enough for a second grader but then you'll be a little more equipped to sit down and talk with Lucas about it. I wouldn't put too much pressure on any one conversation. You could have a few but I would protect at a quiet time where he's well rested, where you don't have to rush out to work and where he's most likely to talk which you're the expert on your child but you but probably with most 8 year olds happens maybe in the car driving to practice or it might happen usually at bedtime when you two fully have each other's attention or you three do you know when he's most likely to talk? And I would have an open conversation at one of those times and be really curious with him and you could start and say I've been thinking about your questions about friend's name here. His friend's friend and I would love to hear more about what do you like about him? What do you like about playing with him? Knowing that you don't get to sit near each other or have playdates or go to each other's birthday parties and yet you still find time together which is pretty impressive. What do you like about him? And let him tell you. Let him teach you about what's special about this kid and is it about this child? Is there something he really likes? Or is he trying to figure out why he's not supposed to be with him or is he lonely and he doesn't have new friends and so he's trying to repair with this friend that he was close with. I would really follow him wherever he'll take you in thinking about what he's asking for when he asks for time with him. Time with him and the conversation may go back to what happened in kindergarten or first grade and I would be ready to be able to talk about how Normal it is to be curious about bodies. And sounds like you did a beautiful job of that. But you can never talk about this stuff too much. Being thoughtful that you're not shaming him and talking about how, you know, what our bodies are built for, what they do. I'm not a fan of euphemisms, but being able to talk about how for whatever reason, in our culture, we keep our private parts a little bit more private than the rest of us, and we. We really share them when we're in the shower or just with the people we're super close to when we're adults. And maybe the conversation becomes a conversation about sex and reproduction and that's okay. I would jump right in there. I would urge you and all listeners to get comfortable being a little uncomfortable talking factually about sex and reproduction. Because making these things authentic, not covered by euphemisms, just making them talk about able is the most potent way we can counteract maybe the forces of shame. If kids are having questions or thoughts about other kids, and it's gonna happen, there are gonna be more of them as puberty comes into the building. So making it talk about able now, when it's a little more neutral, and when he's really wanting to understand the world with help, because as they enter teenage years, they're going to start spending more time trying to understand the world with their friends help or with the Internet's help. So he still wants to hear about it from you and his dad. So I take advantage of that. I would also say, as you are talking with him, if you find that you have some questions about. About Lucas, about his impulse control, about him being anxious or sad or ruminating about something that feel outside of your experience of him. If anything has you a little worried, don't worry alone. Bring it to the pediatrician and think about whether there's anything going on that you could better support him with, or there might be outside supports. And I would say if after all these conversations, he's still having questions about playdates and birthday parties and why can't he go to his friend's house? I wouldn't focus on the parents and what happened. Remembering that there may be a day when he's 13 or 15 or 17 where this is much easier to talk about with him. But being able to say more broadly that different families sometimes have different rules in their homes. Talking about a few ways that families can be different and say, some families just have really strict rules about what play looks like. And this friend's family just has different set of rules and that that's okay that he and his friend can play at school, but it's not a good fit to play it one home or the other and then be curious with him again, how does it make him feel? What are his questions? And always being ready to address the idea and correct the idea that he did anything wrong, that he did anything to be ashamed of. That's not the case. You can keep him company in highlighting what's wonderful about what he likes about this friend and where can we have more and more of that in his life? And more playdates, more time with peers, but a bigger circle of kids whose homes are more welcoming places. Thanks for calling and good luck. We have another quick break and then we'll be right back with two more questions from the mailbag. Hi, my name is Jim and my wife and I have two boys who are 13 and 9 and our 9 year old is a special needs child with some complex medical conditions and frankly takes up a lot of the bandwidth in our family and due to his behavioral issues gets a lot of the attention. Our 13 year old boy is essentially a high performer who in many ways takes care of himself, does his own homework, does well in school, excels at sports and has a pretty robust social network. The question is how can we ensure that the older boy is getting what he needs from us as parents and in the family environment and is not essentially being overlooked due to the fact that his younger brother requires so much of our time and attention?
- [25:02]
Andrea (caller about Lucas)
Thank you.
- [25:07]
Dr. Susan Swick
Thanks for calling. Jim, what an interesting and thoughtful question. And it sounds like your boys are very lucky to have the parents that they have. And you're essentially asking how can you thoughtfully be full parents to each child with such different needs? Teenagers are naturally moving into a developmental stage where they are increasingly independent. They are exploring their emerging identity, but they're really doing that by trying a lot of things, trying out different music, different clothes, different friends, different identities. But they're exploring this identity more and more on their own time in, you know, in school or out with friends, at sports practices, wherever they may be circling and they're figuring out who their friends are. It's just as important for their identity is not just who they are and what they're good at and what they like and what they don't like, but it's also who they like and who they don't like and what it means to be friends. Younger kids just want a buddy who has the same interests and they can do activities together. Friends as they go into and through adolescence and actually through adulthood, our friendships become deeper where they're not as much about shared interests, those are bonuses, that's how you meet people. But they're actually about complementary character. And these are the years where kids learn to manage conflict and forgiveness, real deepening sort of love in their friendships. Okay, so all of that is to say it is healthy and normal for your 13 year old to be doing more and more outside of the home. And they really still need their parents, as you are observing. They need to be able to talk about the things that are actually confusing to them. This often will be about relationships where there's either romance is budding, how do they figure out who they like and who they're just friends with? There's time to do all sorts of things in elementary school and then in middle school it gets more and more demanding. And by high school, classes and sports and theater and music and art are even more demanding. And they start having to make choices about where to deepen their time spent and where to let things go. And it helps for them to have a chance to bounce things off of their parents. So I would say the key with your 13 year old son is realistically thinking about how can you protect reliable time where you're available to connect with him, you and your wife separately is even better because then he may connect with each of you about different things. One of you may be the go to person for homework, for sports, another for relationships, another for romance versus friendship conflict. Making sure each of you is reliably available for him to drop in and that to be the moment where he actually starts talking about something that is a little bit deeper and more meaningful than just did he get his homework done? Often parents of emerging teenagers discover that the time spent in the car driving them, you're still in those golden years before they get a license to practice, maybe to school is extraordinary time, so take advantage of that. So car time is key. Whatever time, he keeps showing up consistently. So for some kids, they like to do homework in the kitchen. This was one of my kids, they always did homework in the kitchen, on the counter while I was cooking dinner. And that ended up being time where if they were going to talk about something that was on their mind, good or bad, it would happen there. So cooking dinner became extra important for me. Don't be discouraged if he's not sharing, but showing up, being present, being available so your ears are ready in case there's something on his mind. Some kids, it helps to have lower pressure encounters. It can be as simple as like watching your favorite animated 30 minute show together every night. Watching sports or a game show is awesome because it's funny me you get to share in solving the problem if it's a game show and there's a lot of material up there in a sports match or a game or a game show to be able to talk about. And you'll notice in each of these examples it's just your son, it's not the nine year old too. So I'm thinking about having it be you or your wife and your son. So the other parent is available to be taking care of the nine year old if needed. But there's just a little more attention put on having some one on one with the 13 year old. It doesn't have to be a ton. It's the consistency that's going to make a big difference. One last possibility, One thing that I heard from a parent that had worked really well with a very self sufficient, high performing kid, but who like to still feel anchored, tethered, lovingly connected at home was they created a little, it was a little notebook that they left on a table in the entryway that mom or dad would just leave a little sort of love note to their child like what they were hoping for for their child on that day, or well wishes or questions. And then when their child got home or when they thought of it, they do some writing about what was going on in their day. For some kids, for some adults, it's a lot easier to think about and talk about or communicate about something that's going on inside or at school or with friends in a written way without it being sort of charged or without the pressure to get the word just right. You're the expert on your son. If he's a writer, you might give that a try and figure out which things stick, which things work for you. And I would say please, please, please be kind and compassionate, you and your wife, with yourselves so that the time you spend being available to your older son is sustainable. And if you're really nailing it, it's gonna also fill your cup a little bit. It's gonna recharge you to feel connected to him. Okay, thanks for calling.
- [32:29]
Maggie (caller about screen time)
Hey Dr. Swick, this is Maggie. I am the proud mama of three kiddos, ages 6, 8 and 11. And I am thrilled to be asking you probably a couple of questions today. So, you know, I'm really struggling with this. You know, this is a really big, wonderful transitional moment for all of my kids, but especially my 11 year old who's transitioning from, you know, a kid, a young kid to a young adult to a teen to in this tween phase, this in between becoming middle, you know, middle schooler next year. And I'm, you know, trying to give him more space and more autonomy and more responsibility. But it's hard, you know, and it's hard, and I am, you know, challenged with that. Like, I want to give him more autonomy for screen time, but also within the confines of what I know is safe. And we don't have. He doesn't have a cell phone and he won't anytime soon. And he knows that we have a landline where he can and keep connected to his friends and have that way to build community. But I know that's going to be a conversation. And so as we go into this next phase, I would love to hear from you about how do I really work with my kids to empower them to feel autonomy and ownership over their own screen time, you know, getting a phone eventually, while also being protective and, you know, understanding that I, that I do bring some expertise as the mom, you know, having been there. And so that's, I guess my big question is, how do you, how do you do this transitional phase? How do you do it in a way that's empowering, but also, you know, leveraging what we know to be true about childhood development and this just really critical time. So thank you so much, Dr. Swick. You're the best. I appreciate you and this podcast asked so incredibly much and really looking forward to hearing your answers and sharing them with my kiddos. All right, thanks. Bye.
- [34:29]
Dr. Susan Swick
I love this question, mostly because I've been thinking about it for how long now? Maybe a decade, maybe more. How to cultivate sort of healthy autonomy, healthy decision making in our children while at the same time being protective and that it's not as simple as flicking a switch where we're really protective up until a moment and then we just open the floodgates and they make all the choices themselves. Actually, sometimes we do do this with our kids and it often does not go great. It's one of the reasons college can be really hard for some kids is they just didn't even realize how much their parents were helping them regulate sort of self management. And they end up eating too much at mealtime at all. You can eat mealtime or not ever doing their laund, and they learn pretty quickly how to do it, so it's rarely a catastrophe. But how can we thoughtfully and intentionally do this and in particular with screen time. And let's acknowledge that even though screens in their various forms, but in particular in their tiny portable phone forms have been with us and with social media now for almost two decades and there still is a lot of controversy, maybe more now than ever before, about what's safe for developing kids, what's healthy for developing kids. And it's natural to be uncertain, to want to err on the side of let's be conservative and not expose them to any more than we need to. But I do think that our job as par is to be first the experts on our own kids, each individual child and what they need to flourish. So I would say, Maggie, it sounds like you have such a open, warm, connected and communicative house and I would start with your oldest and I would talk with them when they're most likely to talk and I'd be curious with them them about like what, what would they love to be doing on screens that they're not doing now? And I would just make sure they feel really comfortable being really honest. Be like, so what is it time with friends? Is it getting to play with AI? Is it getting to surf the web or watch videos? Assume you don't know because you probably don't even as connected as you are. I am stunned with my youngest who's still at home. First of all, I continuously need him to teach me how to do things on my phone, tablet or laptop. But when he shows me the things he's been watching or doing, it seems like every week there are either new apps, there's new social media channels and soon enough they will be out of the house even while they're still in the house, they're out of the house a lot of the day and maybe experiencing other kids screens. So equipping him or her to be a critical thinker about what is it they want to do on screens and be curious about what it is, what their friends are doing, why they want to do that, what they've learned about it or when they've seen it or tried it. And, and I would also then be curious with them about what they think it might cost them to be doing that and just be curious. You say why do you think I say no to screens? Like we get to have ice cream sometimes and it's not really good for you, it just tastes good. And why do you think we've limited screens in the house? And think with your 11 year old about what they lose when they're on screens. Right, because the biggest cost of screen time is opportunity cost. Right. Time can get lost on a screen, whether it's binge watching a Netflix show, scrolling through News feeds or YouTube videos, whatever it might be, you know, five minutes can easily turn into an hour. We've all experienced that. And being able to just acknowledge that and then talk about, you know, all these things exist because companies popped up and created these programs in a way that makes us want to use them longer and longer. Because they make money when our eyeballs are on these programs. And if we spend more time, they make more money from their ads. And just being able to invest some healthy skepticism of why things are designed to, to keep us a little hooked on them, to be kind of addictive and that it's making someone else money. This is a really important strategy with an emerging adolescent because adolescents are going to begin to think, oh, my parents just think this is bad because they read a book or they heard about it on the news and being able to remind them, no, there's also someone else that's making a lot of money off of your eyeballs. So you need to be a healthy skeptic of where you put your time, your money and your energy. Also, what are the other things that they're not doing if they are on a screen? And most of them are sort of like actual physical things in the world, whether it is gardening or making art or reading a book or playing basketball or skateboarding. And in particular, time with their friends. Not just texting or chatting with friends, but actually talking to friends like they do on their landline. And in particular, I think this is the risk of social media, where kids, instead of putting time into being in groups of kids they don't know as well, especially when they start a new middle school, which may have half the kids coming from a different elementary school or even more, there's going to be new kids to meet. It's stressful, it's hard. It takes time of being in that uncertain building place. And it can be easier to be on Instagram or Snapchat or whatever it is right now that the kids are using, but it's easier. It's frictionless. There's no speed bump to start an account, to open it up, to be watching what other kids are doing, to be responding to what they say or what they post. But it also is no, nowhere near as rich. It does not bring the skills, it does not bring the reward. There's a flip side to this too though, because our teenagers, as your 11 year old really enters, goes from tween to teen, our teenagers are figuring out who they are. They figure out their identity by trying on different outfits, essentially different coats or different hats, and figuring out, oh, am I going to be an astronaut? Am I going to be a ballerina? But they're a little more serious and they're often more about what music do I like, what gang do I hang out with, what kind of friend am I? And we want them to figure those things out by actually exploring them, not just virtually. So phones can both make it easier for them to avoid exploring things, but they can also make it easier for them to explore things that they couldn't explore otherwise. So if you have a child that is really fascinated with NASA and space exploration, there's not going to be too many, many actual physical experiences they can have to nurture that interest. It's going to be something that they have to do with a laptop with some kind of simulation. So anything where exploration might require simulation, think about that. Is the screen going to help them to explore? And screens, phones in particular, can make independence a little easier. It can make it easier for our kids to walk into town knowing that they could call for a ride if they needed to to plans with their friends. Landlines can sometimes lead to phone tag, whereas being able to have a shared chat, even if it's just a dumb phone where you can call and text, even texting is better than just a landline so that they can build plans with friends or they can call and ask for a ride, those things are critical and relationships can be well served. I think we all as adults have experienced this. When you have an authentic, deep relationship with another human being, knowing that you can text each other to share something funny, or staying tethered by an occasional longer note or an email. It's a wonderful supplement to preserve and sustain a relationship when you're far away or when your schedules are discordant. And for kids, sometimes if one kid is in orchestra and their good friend is on the football team, they're not going to have time to get so how do they stay connected even when their schedules don't make it easy? These are really helpful things to think about in thinking about how can access to screens serve your child's development? And invite them to be your partner in this? Talk with them about how would you know if it was too much time and you could turn on that screen? Time monitoring on a phone or on a tablet, you can just track how much sleep they're getting and how restful their sleep is and being able to settle on what those goals might be. Now, when your tween is still tween before they're a full teen, you may find that they're an even more forthcoming partner with you. If there's something you want to try, you could also try it together. Could we try a dumb phone and we both try it? Could we try a smartphone? But but it lives in the kitchen after school except for one hour of texting with friends, it doesn't go to bedrooms or under pillows at night. Come up with strategies that you could try together again. I'm so impressed with how connected you are to your marvelous threesome and invite them to think with you about how to figure out how to use these tools for fun, for relaxation, for practical needs, and in ways that could support development with you being the expert on where they might need a few extra guardrails. Maggie, thanks for calling. I'm really eager to hear how it goes, so thanks for calling and thanks for sharing. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect you can listen to Talk about Able completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive content like even more helpful advice and tips on the challenges parents are facing. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Talk About Able is produced by Lemonade Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health, and it's made possible through funding from the Montaj Health Foundation. Together, we're committed to helping families talk about the issues that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even about the most challenging subjects, children build the skills they need to flourish. Because when families families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes Talk About Able. The show is produced by Hannah Boomershine and James Barber. Our senior producer is Muna Daenish, mixing and sound design by James Barber. Kristin Lepore is our VP of Content Development and Jackie Danziger is Head of Content. Maggie Croucher is our Senior Director of Partnership. Executive producers include myself, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Special thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next week.