Our 4-year-Old Is Donor Conceived—How Do We Tell Her?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Our 4-year-Old Is Donor Conceived—How Do We Tell Her?"

Talkaboutable with Dr. Susan Swick
Host: Lemonada Media
Date: June 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Susan Swick in conversation with Lorraine and Michael, parents of 4-year-old Sadie, who was conceived via donor embryo. With neither parent genetically related to their daughter, Lorraine and Michael discuss their approach to being open about Sadie's origins and the questions and concerns that arise as she grows more curious. Dr. Swick offers insight into timing, emotional readiness, and keeping the parent-child relationship central as the family navigates complex topics around genetics, identity, and family structure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sadie's Story and Family Dynamics

• Lorraine and Michael describe their path to parenthood after unsuccessful attempts with IUI and IVF, eventually choosing embryo donation.
• Their home life is described as "cozy" with both parents working from home, raising Sadie and two cats, Slim and Poppy.
• They highlight Sadie’s personality: fiercely independent, outgoing, creative, and a deep thinker.
  • "She really wants everybody to know that she can do that and she can get in and out of the car by herself. She does not need any help." — Michael (03:27)

2. Navigating Disclosure and Sadie's Understanding

• Since infancy, Sadie has been introduced to the concept of her origin with age-appropriate children’s books, especially The Pea That Was Me (07:10), but she recently rejected it by throwing the book, signaling a shift in her readiness or interest.

  • "She picked [the book] up and she threw it across the room. And I was like, okay, we're not clear. I gotcha. We're not reading that one." — Michael (00:38, 07:43)

• The family uses imaginative nightly "bat stories" to broach topics, including adoption, but Sadie sometimes resists parallels drawn to her own story.

3. Parents' Concerns: Timing, Complexity, & Emotional Impact

• Lorraine and Michael want to balance honesty with not overwhelming Sadie with complexity before she’s ready.
  • "The big question is, is when to introduce more complexity into it, like, what that actually means." — Lorraine (09:11)
• Worries include Sadie feeling different from peers, experiencing rejection, or lacking a sense of worth due to the absence of genetic ties.
  • "I'm more concerned with not complicating things any further... How can I keep things as, like, normal and friendly and positive as possible?" — Michael (09:55, 10:00)
• Dr. Swick notes these concerns are common among adoptive and third-party conception families.

4. Dr. Susan Swick’s Guidance: Let the Child Lead

• Dr. Swick reassures the parents that Sadie's openness to asking questions is a sign of security and trust.
  • "She feels securely tethered to both of you, so she can ask any question, no matter how weird... She's not editing herself, which is wonderful." — Dr. Susan Swick (11:56)
• Suggests that Sadie’s questions are more about "story" and meaning than genetics at this age:
  • "What matters to her is she's making rich, detailed stories ... probably right now that's not the critical thing [genetics]." — Dr. Susan Swick (12:51, 13:43)
• Advises against rushing to answer in detail; instead, respond to Sadie’s lead and clarify what she’s actually asking before providing more information:
  • "When she asks, don't assume you know what she's asking... Slow it down. Ask more questions." — Dr. Susan Swick (14:50-14:58)

5. Sibling Relationships and Expanding Family Definition

• Sadie has a full biological sibling, 14 years her senior, resulting from the same embryo donation.

• Parents wonder how much to reinforce this relationship and how/when Sadie might want to pursue it.

  • "You have a hundred percent full sibling that you will never share parents with or a house with." — Michael (17:43)

• Dr. Swick contextualizes blended/non-traditional families, noting that relationships develop from lived experience, not genetics:

  • "Genetics are clinical. They're not soulful... our mom and dad are the people who raise us." — Dr. Susan Swick (18:03, 19:46)
  • She normalizes concerns that Sadie might at some point use her story in conflict (e.g., as a teen), stating, "That happens even with full genetic, like unquestionable genetic lineage, teenagers are pretty good at knowing how to push a button." (19:46)

6. Death, Loss, and Existential Questions

• Sadie, like many four-year-olds, asks about death and the unknown, rather than focusing on the mechanics of genetics or family structure.
  • "Do people die on the couch?" — Sadie (reported by Michael, 10:55)
• Dr. Swick reassures that these queries are normal and a way for children to process the world around them, often influenced by stories like Frozen where parental loss is central.

7. Practical Tips and Reassurance for Parents

• Openness without oversharing: keep the door open for questions, but let the child initiate detail and pace.

• Story-based explanations are developmentally appropriate; detailed genetic/biological information can wait until the child seeks it.

• Every parent—regardless of genetic connection—worries about being "enough" for their child.

  • "Every parent, even those that have easy biological gestation and birth, worries that they're not up to the task or they're not doing it right." — Dr. Susan Swick (23:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On sadness and worry about disclosure:
  "Her being? Sad? Rejection. I don't know. Not feeling a sense of worth equal to other people who have, like, blood relations..." — Lorraine (09:45)
• On the myth of 'real' parents:
  "Whatever we think about genetics, our mom and dad are the people who raise us... She's asking you, so she knows your mom and dad. You guys are mom and dad. There's no one else. You're the sun and the moon." — Dr. Susan Swick (20:49–22:01)
• On Sadie describing her origin:
  "She'd probably talk about the pee. My mommy and daddy got a pee and my mom... the pee turned into me." — Michael & Lorraine (25:05–25:15)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:10–03:42: Family introduction, Sadie’s personality
• 04:06–06:19: Infertility journey, embryo donation process and meeting the donors
• 07:10–09:01: Attempts to explain Sadie’s story to her, including book rejection and bedtime stories
• 09:11–10:00: Parental anxieties about disclosure and emotional impact
• 11:56–14:58: Dr. Swick’s guidance on letting the child lead; the value of open, curious conversation
• 17:06–19:30: Complexities of sibling relationships and nontraditional family structures
• 22:12–23:47: Addressing universal and unique parental insecurities
• 25:05–26:18: Sadie’s (age-appropriate) explanation of her origins; limited curiosity so far
• 27:21–29:57: Discussion of egg donor and potential future for Sadie to connect with donor siblings

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Summary Takeaways

• Lead with openness but let your child set the pace and depth of conversation.
• Answer questions with curiosity about their real meaning—sometimes stories resonate more than facts.
• Children, especially young ones, are often more focused on their daily relationships and imagination than on genetic or existential differences.
• Parenting worries about identity and belonging are universal, not just for adoptive or donor-conceived families.
• Your role as the present, loving parent is what matters most in your child’s sense of family and security.

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This episode offers comfort and practical insight for any parent facing questions about family origin, genetics, or nontraditional parenthood—and reminds us that nurturing honesty and connection are always talkaboutable.

Transcript

[Michael]

Lemonada

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Talk About Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health. And it's made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation.

[Michael]

We have a couple of books that we've read to her since she was tiny.

[Lorraine]

One is called the Pea, the Pee.

[Michael]

That was me.

[Lorraine]

That was me. And that one seems to have stuck the most where the story is that

[Michael]

mommy and daddy couldn't make the pee on their own, and so they got help from donors. And she was like looking through the books that I had brought out and she picked that one and she picked it up and she threw it across the room. And I was like, okay, we're not clear. I gotcha. We're not reading that one.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'm Dr. Susan Swick and this is Talk About Able. Today I'm talking to Lorraine and Michael, parents to 4 year old Sadie. Unable to conceive a child on their own, they decided to explore third party conception options. And eventually they were able to have Sadie using a donor embryo. So even though Lorraine carried and gave birth to their child, neither parent is genetically related to her. Lorraine and Michael have always tried to be open with Sadie about her origin story, but now that she's four, she's beginning to have some big feelings about the subject. And they're wondering, is it finally time to get into the genetics of it all and how much information is too much for their young child. This is a conversation about all kinds of families. How to know when it's okay to tell your children about some of the grown up things in life and why letting your child lead the way might be the key. I love to get started by getting to hear a little bit about who lives at home with you. Who do you come home to?

[Michael]

Well, we don't leave home a lot because we both work from home.

[Lorraine]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Okay. All right. So it's cozy.

[Michael]

So it's more of who comes home to us. Okay. And who comes home to us is Sadie. She's our four year old firecracker. And there are two cats who live with us as well, our two fur babies.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And your fur babies, what are their names, can I ask?

[Michael]

Slim and Poppy.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Wonderful. Okay, I'm getting the picture a little bit. So then I'd also love for you to tell me a little bit about Sadie. But to start with, to hear what you think her special gifts are.

[Michael]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I know we have all day.

[Michael]

If I had to sort of summarize her, she is so friendly. She will Literally talk to anyone that she meets. She's just, like, super outgoing and really confident.

[Lorraine]

She also likes to do everything herself.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Can you think of an example where she had to do it on her own?

[Michael]

The new one has been clicking herself into her car seat and out of her car seat. She does not want help with that.

[Lorraine]

She gets very upset at you.

[Michael]

She gets very upset if I do it without asking if I can do it. She really wants everybody to know that she can do that and she can get in and out of the car by herself. She does not need any help.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

We might describe her as fiercely independent.

[Michael]

Yes. Yes, 100%.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'd love to let you tell me, in your words, what the situation is that you'd really like to talk about today.

[Lorraine]

Sure. Well, I mean, I guess a little bit about her story. We were living in LA and we were trying to have kids and it wasn't working for various reasons. For various reasons on both sides. And so stressful.

[Michael]

We had done a round of IUI and IVF and both had failed. And the IVF round was, you know, as IVF can be when it doesn't work, just like devastating. And it's a loss.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

It's actually like you have to grieve in a way.

[Michael]

It's really. And we weren't sure what we were going to do. We were sort of throwing around a lot of ideas. And then I somehow fell into this research hole about embryo donation. And I had kind of peripherally known that it was a thing, but I hadn't done the deep dive. And I woke up the next morning just, like, really underslept. I said, I think this is our path forward.

[Lorraine]

And we like the idea of having a baby from day one.

[Michael]

Yeah. And I wanted to carry if I could. So we found an agency that we really liked and felt aligned with our values.

[Lorraine]

A lot of agencies out there are religiously affiliated, which is fine, but we are not. And.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah.

[Lorraine]

And basically they match you with. With potential donors online. It's like online dating a little bit. And we. And we. They match us pretty quickly. And we met them in a zoom call. This is during COVID Right. And we just really, like, felt a connection with them.

[Michael]

They had one child from one transfer, and then life kind of took over. And then 14 years later, they were like, what are. We have these three embryos that are good quality and someone should get to use them. And so we. We. We didn't adopt them. The language is sort of legally treated.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

The language is different.

[Michael]

Is different. Yeah. It's legally Treated like a tissue donation.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I see.

[Michael]

So, you know, there's a whole legal. Legal hoops you have to jump through and. Yep.

[Lorraine]

So she has a full sibling.

[Michael]

Yeah, she has a full biological sibling who's 14 years older than her.

[Lorraine]

And we've met them three or four times, and Sadie has met them as well. But of course, probably it didn't really click at the time who they were.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah. Okay. So there's. This is a wonderful background and I'm learning a lot because I actually didn't know this much about embryo donation and how it goes, and it's so. I don't know, it sounds so meaningful that there's actually kind of a match.

[Lorraine]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

So tell me how this is playing into Sadie's life now and your questions or worries about what it might mean for her.

[Michael]

Well, she's old enough now that things are starting to make sense to her. Or she's starting. She's starting to connect the dots. We have a couple of books that we've read to her since she was tiny that, you know, use food metaphors.

[Lorraine]

We're like. One is called the Pee that Was Me. And that one seems to have stuck the most where the story is that

[Michael]

Don couldn't make the pee on their own, and so they got help from donors.

[Lorraine]

A nice family.

[Michael]

Yeah, a nice family who gave us the pee that was then put inside mommy and then became her. So.

[Lorraine]

So she. She knows that story and she even knows their names, the nice donors. But I think, like, what that really means beyond that, I don't know what's going on necessarily in her brain about that.

[Michael]

Yeah. And we've had a couple of conversations, I would say, in the last few months. Like, I brought those books out at bedtime and she was like, looking through the books that I had brought out, and she picked that one and she picked it up and she threw it across the room. And I was like, okay, we're not clear. I gotcha. We're not reading that one. And then we tell her these sort of extemporaneous stories at night. They're called bat stories, and they're really just about her.

[Lorraine]

We went camping once and we were hoping to see bats in a nearby cave. We didn't, but she got obsessed with bats. So every night we have to tell her bat stories where she's a fruit bat.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Oh, wow.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Okay. That's an unusual animal for four year old girls to be obsessed with, but I love it.

[Michael]

She's into them. Um, yeah, I just told a story about a A new bat at school who had been adopted, like, traditionally adopted. And then afterwards she said, did you. Did you and daddy adopt me? And I said, sort of. She said, okay, I want another bat story, because she normally gets two or three. And I said, okay. And then she said, but I don't want that one again, yes. I was like, okay.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Did she ask you initially? Did she ask questions like, where did I come from? Or where do babies come from?

[Lorraine]

Well, that's the thing. That's the next.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's, like, just starting.

[Lorraine]

The question is. I guess the big question is. Is when to introduce more complexity into it, like, what that actually means. What does family mean? What does it mean to have. We call bio parents?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah.

[Lorraine]

But like, in a way, a second father and a second mother. And that's. That's the part that's like. Like, I want her to understand, but I don't. Like, it's scary to think about the consequences or repercussions of that.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Tell me what the. What the don't. Is. What are you. What are you worried about?

[Lorraine]

Her being? Sad? Rejection. I don't know. Not. Not feeling a sense of worth equal to other people who are.

[Michael]

Have, like, yeah.

[Lorraine]

Blood relations with their. With their parents.

[Michael]

I guess I'm more concerned with not complicating things any further. I put myself in her position, and I think, well, if. If I were in her position, this would be the thing that sort of, like, defined my experience as a human being on this planet. It would be that, like, where did I come from? Who am I really? My concern is, like, I don't want things to be more complicated for her. So how can I keep things as, like, normal and friendly and positive as possible around this topic?

[Lorraine]

Like, this stuff is common.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

It is common. So beyond throwing a book and saying, no more stories about that bat, has she expressed concerns or feelings or questions that have added to your feeling of worry that it might be too complicated or she's going to feel rejected.

[Michael]

Lately, the thing she's been sort of consumed with is us dying. My favorite question about death recently, she was in the backseat of the car, and we were driving. An apropos of nothing said. Do people die on the couch? It's like, wow, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes they die on the couch. People can die kind of anywhere.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Wow. She's a deep thinker. Have there been losses that might be sort of feeding into the questions that she has?

[Lorraine]

No, but she's. Maybe there's like an ins. Not an insecurity, but, like.

[Michael]

Yeah, I mean, that's where I went like, is there a sort of basic insecurity? Whatever it is that she understands, she doesn't understand genetics. Although we've started. I've started talking about like DNA being a kind of, you know, roadmap or a blueprint.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I mean, one of the things that sounds so striking about Sadie is that she is comfortable and confident, asking you guys whatever she's wondering about, which is irreplaceable. Right. She feels securely tethered to both of you, so she can ask any question, no matter how weird. Like, do people die on the couch? That's. Let's just say that's kind of a weird question for a four year old. She's not editing herself, which is wonderful. The other thing is that four year olds, typically four year olds have rich, thoughtful questions. She seems unusually creative as well as observant. So she'll ask questions that are tethered to the natural world. What happens with death or dying or extinction. And she's still four, so there probably is some magical thinking woven in. There's imaginary friends may grasp the finality of death. She may grasp some of the factual details about genetics or about embryo donation. But I'll say that in all likelihood what matters to her is the story. Right? Telling a story that helps her make some sense of the world as she's feeling it and seeing it. The genetics, in a way will matter, but probably right now that's not the critical thing. That's why the book. She's like, whatever, I don't need this book anymore. It may have been that she was upset by it. It's probably more that she sensed it was more important to you than it was to her.

[Lorraine]

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

That you really want to take care not to have secrets around this. You want it to be open and honest. But what matters to her is she's making rich, detailed stories that pull from what she sees, but also from her imagination. What I'm wondering about and what I would invite you. It sounds like you do this so beautifully, is to not feel so much pressure to rush and answer every question because sometimes what she. She doesn't want the dissertation or the, the wiki, the full, the full Mendelian genetics lecture that she wants to talk with you about sort of stories. So in a way being comfortable asking rather than telling, like being able to say, so what's got you wondering about that? What are you thinking about? Say, we'll tell you anything you want to know. But before we jump in to facts

[Lorraine]

and figures, let her lead the story or the conversation.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah. When she asks, don't assume you know what she's asking. Down. Slow it down. Ask. Ask more questions.

[Lorraine]

Ask more questions.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll talk about how the conversation may change as Sadie grows up and how to navigate an unusual sibling relationship. Stay with us.

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[Dr. Susan Swick]

So we haven't discussed the older sister yet. You mentioned she has a full biological sister. How does Sadie feel about having a sibling?

[Michael]

I remember a long time ago her asking about it and I said something like, well, you do have a sister. She just doesn't live with us. And then I thought that's probably really confusing for her. And so I guess I, Yeah, I have questions around, like how to address the like. Yeah, you have. You have a hundred percent full sibling that you will never share parents with or a house with.

[Lorraine]

And someday she's going to want to meet all of them again when it really makes sense. Yeah, maybe try to have a relationship with them or something. Yeah, but it's like so how much do we sort of insert that into, like daily conversation or even like once a month, you know, whatever.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I would say she's gonna teach you.

[Lorraine]

Okay.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Recognizing that there are a lot of blended families. There's a lot of families, maybe even of our generation, that were blended in more traditional ways. Right. Where parents broke up and someone got remarried. And dads can have children across the lifespan, but moms may not. So sometimes kids have half siblings that are 20 years younger than them or older than them. There's all sorts of blended families. So being able to actually start with, what would it mean to have a sister or a brother? Like, what do you think of? And to let her sketch it out for you. And maybe it's something from Frozen. Maybe it's something from one of the kids she's at school with. Maybe it's from a book. But let her fill in all the actual adjectives because we're thinking about genetics and 4 year olds really don't care about genetics. They don't. But even if she understands it, genetics are clinical. They're not soulful. Right. That's not who her people are. Right. And she may just wish she had someone to play with at home and finding out what her questions are, what her thoughts are, and being able to respond. Respond from there. Are you worried that she'll feel like you're not her real mom and dad? Yeah.

[Lorraine]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I mean, it's normal.

[Lorraine]

Not all the. I don't all feel that all the time, but yeah, when I think about the conversation progressing, yes, I worry that she'll. I mean, I can also see it too. Like when she's a teenager and she's going through this, using it as a weapon. As a weapon? Yeah. Like that may happen regardless. Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yes, that's right. That happens. Even with full genetic, like unquestionable genetic lineage, teenagers are pretty good at knowing how to push a button and suggest that you're not the most important person to me. I'm ashamed of you, in fact. And we learn each other's buttons and our kids learn our buttons, and when they're frustrated, they know how to push them. But it's not all pain and suffering. During adolescence, there's a lot of delight and joy, but I would say that's a really natural worry. And it doesn't sound like that's what she's asking you. When she has questions, it sounds like she feels. I even. I hear this story, and I'm not here to offer absolution in this regard, but I hear this story and I'm like, this story is so incredible that she was on ice for some time and you found her and chose her, and her biological keeper chose you. And then she grew in your garden, you know, like you carried her. And whatever we think about genetics, our mom and dad are the people who raise us. They are the people who raise us. They're the people who answer our questions and help us brush our teeth and fix macaroni and cheese. And that she. She knows that because she's asking you so that it, in a way, what she wants. I wonder if when she throws the book or says no more of that bat story, she wants you to get back to answering her questions, that she knows your mom and dad. You guys are mom and dad. There's no one else. You're the sun and the moon. And she's at 4, and then at 8, and then at 12, and then at 16, and then at 20, she's gonna be busily figuring out what's on her planet. Right. You're still the sun and the moon. But she gets to figure out who she is, what she likes, what she's good at.

[Lorraine]

And I guess we can take comfort in the fact that we've set the stage correctly for this conversation to progress on her own terms.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

It sounds a little more like it's tethered to this question of what happens if something happens to you. You know what she has many more questions about? And dying. Well, look, four year olds are fascinated by the things that get people's attention. And death and dying does get people's attention. It figures prominently in children's books and children's movies and the sort of the classic ones that kids actually want to see.

[Michael]

There's always a dead parent.

[Lorraine]

Yeah, And Frozen. She's obsessed with Frozen. The mom and dad go away on a ship and don't come back. Wait, why don't they come back? What happens to them?

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And in a way, that's what she wants to try to understand. And she wants your guidance. Right. She's like, what happens? And in a way, being able to meet her there without it having to be too tethered to her story, yet being able to talk about it. You know, displacement is wonderful. We shrinks call it displacement, but it's like, talk about Frozen. That's a lot less charged for her and for you to be able to talk about how parents love their children and if they could, they'd stick around for 200 years to get to see how everything goes and what happens with grandchildren. But it doesn't sound like she's too worried about genetics right now.

[Michael]

No, I don't think so.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And for what it's worth being a parent, there are special, special insecurities that come with adoption or embryo donation, of course. But every parent, even those that have easy biological gestation and birth, every parent worries that they're not up to the task or they're not doing it right, or they're not doing a great job, or they're somehow not the parent their child deserves. This is a real, this is sort of an element feeling, it's, you feel vulnerable and chagrined a lot of the time. We're going to take one more break and then we'll be right back with Lorraine and Michael. How would Sadie describe how she came to be? If someone at preschool asked her, how do you think she would describe it?

[Michael]

She'd probably talk about the pee.

[Lorraine]

Yeah, she would talk about the pee. My mommy and daddy got a pee and my mom and they put it into my mommy's tummy and then she,

[Michael]

the pee turned into me.

[Lorraine]

Pee turned into me.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

That's incredible. That's a good story. Does she ask a lot more questions about it? Like when she's asking about sort of like where do babies come from? Is she asking about herself or is she just like, what the heck is happening with this stuff?

[Lorraine]

I have not heard that many questions. Delving deeper into.

[Michael]

Yeah, me neither. And we've had, we've had a couple of friends who've recently given birth or had, you know, a second child. And so she's seen them pregnant and then she's seen them pregnant and then she's seen them with like a little baby.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

So.

[Michael]

But she's not, I don't know that she's ever actually asked that question of

[Lorraine]

how do babies, how did the pee become the pee?

[Michael]

Right.

[Lorraine]

Where did the pee come from?

[Michael]

Like, we're not, I don't think she's like, wait a second, that could happen

[Lorraine]

though, any day now.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah, it could, it could, it could.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

I, I will say most four year olds are pretty self centered in the broadest sense of the word. Like they really, they are used to being the whole universe, especially only children.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And they don't spend too, too much time thinking about. So besides me, what else happens? They're pretty focused on themselves and four is such a fun age, but it's also a really interesting age because cognitively, every day is like a new century for them. So a certain question may occur to her. But when she wakes up on Wednesday morning. It's a whole new century. She may not go back and be like, let's get back to that pee problem and try to figure that out versus us, who.

[Michael]

And we've been ruminating on it for, like, several. Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

And it's wrapped up, too, in grief with what wasn't what you wanted it to be. And the wonderful truth is you two are parents. You're wonderful parents, by all appearances. And just hearing how you talk about this extraordinary creature that is. That is your beautiful daughter. We haven't even talked at all about the egg donor.

[Michael]

Yeah, the egg donor is a question mark, sort of question mark.

[Lorraine]

We only know her based on what was on paper about her.

[Michael]

Right. And they. They knew her. I think they'd met, maybe met her once. They have. They have access to her. She's not anonymous. So I think it would be easy, it would be not super complicated for us to get information. So if Sadie wanted to track her down, she could. We do know. I mean, and then this is, you know, going back to the sort of ethics of it that. That the egg donor donated four or five, I think, four or five times, or there are four or five other half siblings that we know there. Somewhere out there somewhere.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Wow.

[Michael]

So there's that, too. You know, like she has a sibling pod that she's going to. Should she choose to probably track down or have some.

[Lorraine]

Could be a very exciting thing. Could be a very cool, exciting thing for her. Could also be.

[Michael]

Or it could be shocking and horrifying. I don't. I don't know.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

But she'll need your company.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

As she. Right. She will need your love, support, your thoughtful companionship, guidance, and as she decides when, what. How to explore that, you know, you're. And you will be the Library of Congress on her. You will be the keepers of so much rich knowledge about who she is and how she processes things and what. I mean, I can only. I'm gonna just extrapolate that she's going to be a creator of some sort because she sounds so creative and because you both are so creative and that what she may be creating will be informed by this sort of origin story and this journey, and for her to figure out what it would mean, what she wants to know, if she wants to, you know, go in search of. Of these siblings or half siblings. But she won't be solitary. She'll have your company. And of course, you know, many, many people decide to go in search of their origin story in a way that is maybe less genetically complicated, but is very Similar where it's, you know, I never knew my grandparents, but I am from, you know, I'll.

[Michael]

County Cork.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Yeah, yeah, County Cork. And I want to go and then. And follow the name and see who they were and learn about them. And in some ways, there, there is something elemental about being able to, to be a. Be a historian a little bit about oneself. But it doesn't change who she is, you know, and she's discovering and building who she is with you two as her, as her co pilots. I keep jumping metaphors. Sun and moon co pilots. But, but, but you're MVPs. Like, she can't do it without you. You're not substitute teachers, right? You are her parents. You are her parents. Well, I'm so appreciative that you guys agreed to come and have a conversation.

[Lorraine]

Oh, you know, we didn't ask how do we get her to brush her hair or let us brush her hair.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Wow. Does she have things growing in it now? I had one kid who's.

[Lorraine]

Her hair is all matted and crazy and it's like, yeah, she's a wild child.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

Well, I am eager to hear about the ongoing adventures of Sadie. They sound incredible and riveting and like, you have such a delightful, wonderful family.

[Lorraine]

Thank you.

[Michael]

Thanks.

[Dr. Susan Swick]

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time. You can listen to Talk About Able completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive content like even more helpful advice and tips on the challenges parents are facing. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go go to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Talk about Able is produced by Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health. And it's made possible through funding from the Montage Health Foundation. Together, we're committed to helping families talk about the that children, teens and young adults are facing today. We believe that when these conversations happen at home, even about the most challenging subjects, children build the skills they need to flourish. Because when families are connected, the hard moments become more bearable, the good moments become even better, and it all becomes Talk about Able. The show is produced by Hannah Boomershein and James Barber. Our senior producer is municipal Danish mixing and sound design by James Barber. Kristin Lepore is our VP of content development, and Jackie Danziger is head of content. Maggie Crasher is our senior director of partnerships. Executive producers include myself, Stephanie Whittles, Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Special thanks to Kelsey Talley and Maya Smith. You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next week.