Love-Based Activism: A Conversation with Tara Brach and Mohsen Mahdawi - Part I

Summary

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Episode Summary: Love-Based Activism: A Conversation with Tara Brach and Mohsen Mahdawi – Part I

Podcast: Tara Brach
Date: March 19, 2026
Guests: Tara Brach (Host), Mohsen Mahdawi (Guest)

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Episode Overview

This episode offers a deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation between meditation teacher Tara Brach and Mohsen Mahdawi, a Palestinian activist, Buddhist practitioner, and Columbia University student. Part I traces Mohsen’s remarkable journey from childhood in a West Bank refugee camp through experiences of trauma, education, spiritual awakening, and activism, focusing especially on the transformative role of Buddhist practice and love-based activism. The dialogue unpacks the intersection of personal healing, mindfulness, and the struggle for social justice, highlighting the challenges and possibilities of responding to violence and oppression with compassion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mohsen’s Early Life in a Refugee Camp

[03:39–09:00]

• Reality of Refugee Camp Life:

  • Refugee camps in the West Bank are crowded (10,000 people on 63 acres), with basic infrastructure, poor privacy, infrequent water supply, and little connection to nature.
  • Mohsen describes it as a "concrete jungle" with houses crammed against each other.
  • Environmental hardships compounded by lack of nature: “We were disconnected from nature. And that was actually one of the most difficult things for me…" (Mohsen, [05:05])

• Exposure to Trauma and Loss:

  • Mohsen recounts firsthand witnessing traumatic violence: the killing of his best friend by an Israeli soldier, his uncle’s murder on his 11th birthday, loss of his brother and cousins, and the horrors of the Second Intifada.
  • “As a child, I had to collect people's body parts with my own hands after a strike and put them in plastic bags.” ([07:18])
  • Despite trauma, he recalls early childhood “tranquility and love and deep support from my family and from my mother.” ([08:00])

2. Journey to the United States & Education

[09:00–11:52]

• Pursuit of Education as Resistance:
  • Inspired by his late uncle’s encouragement, Mohsen prioritized education as a way forward: “After he was killed, I continued holding on his vision.” ([09:53])
  • Studies took him from Birzai University (Ramallah) in computer engineering, to Lehigh University, and ultimately Columbia University, where he earned a philosophy degree and began graduate studies in international affairs.
  • “Now I am studying a master's degree in international affairs.” ([11:37])

3. Encountering Buddhism and Spiritual Healing

[12:24–17:40]

• Discovery of Safety, Surfacing of Trauma:

  • The move to the U.S. provided, for the first time, a sense of physical safety and freedom from daily oppression.
  • With safety, deeply buried trauma surfaced: “The moment the safety…was met for me…my trauma started surfacing.” ([12:56])
  • Mohsen describes post-migration traumas—including heartbreak and divorce—intensifying his need for healing.

• Finding Buddhist Practice:

  • Welcomed into a Unitarian Universalist Church community in Vermont, Mohsen encountered Buddhist meditation (especially Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition).
  • First meditation experience: "Just sitting down and doing mindful meditation…put me in a level of relaxation. I was able to break out of the cycle." ([15:14])
  • Buddhist practice proved crucial in Mohsen’s trauma therapy: “Meditation and Buddhism was very grounding experience for me.” ([16:23])

4. Everyday Practice Amid Continued Triggers

[17:40–19:54]

• Daily Routines:
  • Begins his day with gratitude practice and 15 minutes of meditation.
  • Emphasizes importance of community: “I ensure that I have a community where I meet with them at least once a week to continue my practice.” ([19:36])
  • Uses mindfulness and loving-kindness (metta) meditation to regulate emotions, especially when triggered by Middle Eastern violence.
  • “Our body keeps…when I am overwhelmed with emotions, I have to center myself and to fill my own glass.” ([18:46])

5. Love as the Core of Activism

[19:54–24:47]

• Activism Rooted in Love, Not Resentment:

  • Mohsen’s activism was transformed by spiritual healing: he could now share his story “from a place of love, not from a place of resentment or anger or fear.” ([20:49])
  • Developed deep connections and empathy in the U.S., including with Jews and Israelis unfamiliar with Palestinian narratives.
  • “It felt addictive to me…the human being has a good nature, that's a Buddha nature…” ([21:39])

• Building Coalitions at Columbia:

  • Led and co-built the largest coalition in Columbia’s history for pro-Palestinian advocacy—over 130 organizations and thousands of students.
  • Despite trauma and adversity (including discrimination from university administration), the foundational vision was love for humanity and peaceful justice.

6. Navigating Division and the Risks of Reactive Activism

[24:47–29:00]

• Maintaining Loving Presence During Conflict:

  • Recognizes trauma, pain, and anger can divide movements and communities.
  • “One of the most important parts is to have that ability to regulate the emotions to sustain the movement, to continue to build unity and through empathy and compassion. Because otherwise movements can fall apart...” ([26:39])

• Honest Acknowledgment of Human Reactions:

  • Tara notes: “When we feel injured and scared, the human brain goes into very naturally hatred and aggression…unless there is a conscious, explicit intention to cultivate the qualities of presence and compassion, people get pulled into it.” ([27:29])

7. Supporting Others Out of Reactivity

[28:35–32:32]

• Separation of People from Oppressive Systems:

  • Mohsen teaches activists to distinguish people from the systems that oppress: “If we want to fight for justice, we are fighting the system, not the people.” ([29:10])
  • Affirms “the human nature is a good nature, that's the Buddha nature…Even Einstein…said the most important decision…is to believe if we live in a friendly world or an aggressive world.” ([29:45])

• Empathizing Without Justifying Harm:

  • Practices dialoguing with opponents by inviting their empathy; shares personal pain without blame. Over time, sees profound shifts in mutual understanding.
  • “The Bodhisattvas…do the vow…it's to liberate all beings. So that is part of the healing, is to liberate the people who are also being used and manipulated by the system of injustice.” ([31:01])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Childhood Trauma:

  • “As a child, I had to collect people's body parts with my own hands after a strike and put them in plastic bags.”
    — Mohsen Mahdawi ([07:18])

• On Finding Meditation:

  • “Just sitting down and doing mindful meditation…put me in a level of relaxation. I was able to break out of the cycle.”
    — Mohsen Mahdawi ([15:14])

• On Love-Based Activism:

  • “I was able to share my experience and to speak my truth from a place of love, not from a place of resentment or anger or fear.”
    — Mohsen Mahdawi ([20:49])

• On Coalition Building and Emotional Regulation:

  • “One of the most important parts is to have that ability to regulate the emotions to sustain the movement, to continue to build unity and through empathy and compassion.”
    — Mohsen Mahdawi ([26:39])

• On Seeing the ‘Other’ with Compassion:

  • “If we want to fight for justice, we are fighting the system, not the people…The human being is not an enemy, if there is an enemy. It's the system that capitalizes on ignorance, on fear, and on separation or segregation.”
    — Mohsen Mahdawi ([29:10])

• Tara Brach’s Reflection:

  • “If you can be a very embodied transmission of creating a safe space… it helps people to relax defenses and sense a larger connection…if we can respond by being the love, there's amazing hope.”
    — Tara Brach ([32:32])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:39] – Mohsen shares what it means to grow up in a refugee camp
• [07:18] – Description of firsthand trauma and loss as a child
• [09:37] – Educational journey and moving to the United States
• [12:24] – Encounter with safety in the U.S. and resurfacing of trauma
• [15:14] – First experience with meditation and the beginning of spiritual healing
• [17:53] – Ongoing spiritual and mindfulness practices in daily life
• [20:34] – Describing transition to activism rooted in love
• [24:47] – Ensuring activism comes from compassion, even in the face of intense opposition
• [28:35] – Teaching others to separate people from systems of oppression; practical applications in movement-building

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Conclusion & Next Episode Teaser

The episode concludes with Tara reminding listeners that the conversation will continue next week, delving deeper into the practical challenges of enacting love in social movements and exploring what’s possible in the face of ongoing suffering and conflict.

“We’ll be exploring the challenges of manifesting love in action. We’ll also look at the dimensions of what’s possible. So I hope you’ll join us then.”
– Tara Brach ([32:50])

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome, friends, to the Tara Brak Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Each week I share teachings and guided meditations to help us awaken our hearts and bring healing to our world. You can learn more or support this offering by visiting tarabrock.com where you can also join our email list. Now let's explore together the many ways we can live from the love and presence that's our deepest essence. Namaste. Foreign. Welcome, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Some of you may have heard of Mohsen Madawi. He's one of the Columbia students detained for his pro Palestinian activism. But that headline is only a small part of who he is. So Mohsen grew up in a refugee camp in the west bank, and his life journey carried him from those early conditions of displacement and violence and conflict to becoming a student at Columbia University here in the United States. And along the way, he encountered Buddhist practice, which became a deep source of guidance and grounding for him. So in this first part of our conversation, we explore the experiences that really shaped his heart and his vision, from his childhood in a refugee camp to his path of education, spiritual discovery, and the ways practice has really guided his commitment to justice and peace. So I think you'll find it a story of real resilience and awakening, this dedication to bringing compassion and wisdom into the work of social transformation. Okay, friends, now I'll welcome Mohsin Madawi. Namaste. And welcome, friends. I am delighted to have with me Mohsen, who has. We've been in touch back and forth the last couple of months and just felt so right to have him as part of this podcast. So welcome to you, Mohsen.

[B]

It's a great joy and honor to be with you, Tara, and with your audience as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I've shared a little bit about you as kind of an introduction already, but I want to kind of dig right in and go back in time some, if that's okay with you, and just hear a little bit about, I mean, what I've read. You grew up in a refugee camp. You're here now. So you're a Buddhist, an activist. Could you say a little bit, looking back, what it was that most shaped you from your past?

[B]

Thank you for the invitation. Perhaps it would be helpful to share with you and the audience what does it mean to live in a refugee camp as a start, and many people think of refugee camps as places with tints, and that was the case. But that was the case for my great grandfather, where the Refugee camp was started 1948, about 77 years. And the first phase of it was actually tents. And I was born in the same refugee camp, much different situation, much different scene, much different life, about 50 or 40ish years later, as a third generation. So my family was exiled from their homeland, which is Israel, in Israel proper, Israel now. And they found refuge in the West Bank. And that is the life that I opened my eyes on. And if I want to give just a short, brief description of the refugee camp, it is a very small land, about 63 acres, with 10,000 people, or for those who are not Americans, it's about a quarter kilometer Square, or about 23 hectares with 10,000 people. So you can imagine it's very crowded place. And the nature of the camp that I became aware of was made of concrete houses that I call a concrete jungle. Houses crammed over each other, sharing walls, very little privacy, very basic infrastructure. Water only arrives once every week, and we store it in tanks on top of the houses. And the kids play in the streets. When there is rain, it floods the homes. And when there is an argument, in fact, near, at a neighbor's house, you can. You can hear it. So the conditions of living in a refugee camp are difficult and painful conditions without any extra oppression of it. We were disconnected from nature. And that was actually one of the most difficult things for me to realize later, when I became an adult and they had the opportunity to connect with the nature. What added to that experience, living in the refugee camp is the second intifada, or the uprising. When it happened, I was 10 years old in 2000. And the series of horror and loss and suffering started unfolding in my life. And during my childhood, I witnessed things that no other child should witness, which was a very, very painful experience of seeing my best friend killed in front of my eyes, shot on the hands of an Israeli soldier, my uncle who was murdered on my birthday, 11th birthday. And I've seen many others who have been harmed. And as a child, I had to collect people's body parts with my own hands after a strike and put them in plastic bags. So that was a very, very strong experience that formed my sense, my sense of injustice and empathy for those who are experiencing the loss. And another part I have not shared is for the first phase before the second intifado, yes, the conditions were very painful and very difficult. But I call it the mercy of life, that children are unable sometimes to be aware of anything that is beyond their environment. And I experienced a level, actually of tranquility and love. And deep support from my family and from my mother, despite all of the pain that they have witnessed before me. So that experience, both of the love that I had until the age of seven and then my mother was not around, and then the pain that I experienced from the age actually of 8. I also lost my brother when I was 8 years old and my friend and my uncle and my two cousins, they both have formed my sense of the yearning for justice, the yearning for peace, and the yearning to be heard while also strengthen my empathy for other people.

[A]

I'm just taking it in. That's, you know, when I compare that to the childhoods most people I know have had, that level of visceral violence and loss is huge. And I'm wondering maybe if you could just take us, move us through time a little about, you know, when you left the area, when you came to the United States, kind of give us a little bit of a kind of biography so we get a sense of your development.

[B]

So the track was that I studied and stayed in the refugee camp full time until I was 18 years old. And a motivation for us that was with me, within me to fulfill and continue my education was my uncle's advice that he planted in my head. And I did not pay attention to it when he was alive. But after he was killed, I continued holding on his vision. So I did well in high school, went to study in Palestine in a city called Ramallah, at a university called Birzai. And I was studying computer engineering there. During my time there, I met an American woman who I fell in love with. And I ended up after that coming to visit her. And we get married in fact in Palestine in a very short period of time for dating after a few months. And I ended up coming to the United States in 2014 at the age of 24. And during my time in the United States, that is what we would be revealing in this conversation about this discovery and this path of healing that I found and buried. With that I decided to continue my education. So I studied at Lehigh University for two years, computer science and engineering at that time. And then I transferred to Colombia after the pandemic where I've been studying, I graduated from. I had a non traditional undergraduate degree in philosophy where I graduated last year after my released from detention. And now I am studying a master's degree in international affairs.

[A]

Ah, okay. And so you're right now still in Columbia studying and part of that program?

[B]

That's correct. I am wrapping up my second semester.

[A]

Okay, so there's a few different strands I want to keep up with here. And one is that while you were here in the United States, you had really an opening spiritually and a deepening spiritually. And maybe you can share, because many listening, if they're not Buddhists, are very involved with meditation and practice. What did you encounter and what did you discover inside?

[B]

It is the thing that I feel most grateful for in my life. Every morning when I wake up, I start my day by intentionally counting my blessings or sharing the gratitude. And one of the things that I feel most grateful for is the path that led me to Buddhism and incorporating it in my life. Now, to be more comprehensive about it, when I came to the United States, it was the first time in my life that I was able to experience safety, literally, and freedom before that, in Palestine, in the west bank, the sense of safety was not there. I was in survival mode all of my life for 24 years. And the moment I came to the United States and I was able to realize that I actually have equal rights. I can sleep in my house without a soldier breaking in and arresting me. Nobody would be allowed to harm me without being accountable. And to be able to also travel freely from the east coast to the west coast without a checkpoint, without experiencing a level of being subjected to unjust military or police. It was fascinating for me. And what happened during that time. The pain and the trauma from childhood started surfacing. And you know this very well because this is one of your expertise, that the moment the safety, the condition met was met for me and I was surrounded by supportive people, my trauma started surfacing. And those experiences of pain from childhood started haunting me. The experience of literally, like, holding my best friend after he was shot and he was saturated with blood, the experience of burying my brother and shuffling dirt over his body, the experience of holding on my uncle's shoes when I saw him murdered, and the experience of hearing the bombs falling and the explosions that trembled everybody of my every part of my body wasn't easy. And I did not imagine and I did not know that I was carrying it with me. So it really crippled me and it was calling for healing. Now I understand that in addition to that, in 2015, I was going through a divorce with the same woman who I came here to be with and who I loved. So the combination of those two things, the traumas of the past and the heartbreak, really humbled me on a very deep level. And what happened during that time, I feel very lucky or blessed from a spiritual sense. I feel lucky if I'm not relating to spirituality and Blessed if I have understanding of spirituality, that I found a community in Vermont that is called the Unitarian Universalist Church. And at that church, in fact, I found Buddhists who moved to the. To heartland Vermont because there was a plan to build a Thich Nhat Hanh center in that town. It did not work out, so they found refuge in that church. And it was amazing to me that they invited me to do a meditation session. And just sitting down and doing mindful meditation or mindfulness and seeing how it impacted my body and my mind put me in a level of relaxation. I was able to break out of the cycle. I was able to feel a level of awareness and consciousness within very short period. It intrigued my curiosity and I wanted to learn more about it at that time and later I understood what Buddha has said. Basically, you don't ask, what's the arrow, who shot it? And so on. You just take the medicine at the beginning. And I took the medicine. So it helped me with regulating my emotions. And it helped me during my time when I was doing trauma therapy for a whole year. Meditation and Buddhism was very grounding experience for me.

[A]

Tell me, how are you practicing now? Like, what's your daily practice to keep? Because there's so much still going on that could be triggering. What's it like for you?

[B]

There is. There is a lot that is happening, in fact, that's triggering, as we discussed earlier with unfolding war in the Middle east and the images that are coming out. And that actually is triggering me from two years and from the time where I experienced such severity of. Of fear and of pain. So every time I have my emotions to be heightened, I know where to go. I find refuge in meditation. And I learned how to basically call my body to center myself and to anchor myself in breathing in and out, inhale and exhale. There are different forms of meditations that I use, but the two most common that I use is the mindfulness meditation and the loving kindness one. And the idea that I realized that actually our body keeps. And it signals to us when there is something that needs to be processed. And there is a book called the Body Never Lies. So I take it. I take it that my body never lies. And all what I have to do when I am overwhelmed with emotions, I have to center myself and to fill my own glass. Because the moment I am overwhelmed, I am in a state of fear, or when I feel resentment or pain, I am suffering to a certain level. So I try to practice that. And there are other practices that, as I mentioned, when I wake up I, generally speaking, I start my day with the gratitude, and then I do 15 minutes of meditation, and I ensure that I have a community where I meet with them at least once a week to continue my practice.

[A]

That's so wise. We need others. So what I'm picking up is you came here and you just felt the traumas from the past. You found a way of some spiritual refuge. And I'd like you to continue with your story, Sam. You got very, very involved with organizing and activity at Columbia, and that's what ended up bringing you into the public eye. So can you kind of keep us going on your. The story of how you got engaged, what motivated you, and kind of what actually happened?

[B]

Definitely. The transformation that happened is not only internal, it's external as well, because the moment I felt that I am liberated, in fact, from my suffering and my trauma, I was able to share my experience and to speak my truth from a place of love, not from a place of resentment or anger or fear. And I saw the impact on community members who I connected with in the Upper Valley of Vermont and in New Hampshire. And it felt addictive to me to a certain level that I am helping people to understand the Palestinian experience and an experience from the eyes of a child. And I am not alone. There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children who are still experiencing the same level of pain. And I was able to notice and to see the human capacity to empathize those communities. People who I connected with, they were able to empathize even though many of them are not Buddhists. Actually, most of the people are not Buddhist. And also what made me more fascinated is when I connected with Jews and Israelis who were not many were not exposed to my narrative, and they did not know about that reality. And I felt a level of obligation, an obligation that does not feel too heavy, because it's an obligation for my people and the people who are suffering, and an obligation to the American people and to the Israelis to be able to communicate with them my truth and my experience. And that is what basically, that is that I believe that the human being has a good nature, that's a Buddha nature, and we can talk more about it. So that experience was addictive. I continued doing it. I went to the first university, started initiatives and talking and speaking with communities, and I built bridges with communities, unlikely a lot. And when I came to Colombia, I came to Colombia for this same purpose, knowing that Colombia will serve as an essential place for dialogue and for peacemaking. And I did that for the first two years, until October 7th took place. And at that moment, the pain was so severe, as I've seen the horror unfolding in Gaza and genocide now we can acknowledge and see. And our work was stop this pain, cease fire. And I led the protests here, the pro Palestine protests. I envisioned and co built the coalition at Colombia. And I continued to have dialogues and to reach out to the other side, even though there was serious level of pain and reactions from all sides.

[A]

Let me ask you a question here. Let me just. This is so interesting to me that your superpower, what was addictive, was realizing that you could communicate from love, from what you cared about and reach others, have others wake up their care. And so then you went to Colombia with the purpose of trying to cultivate this, this kind of consciousness and caring. You got involved right after October 7th at a time when people were in total horror and anger and hatred. And I'm curious, with the people that you gathered for pro Palestinian protests and organizing, was there a shared sense of the same thing that you were experiencing, that the expression needed to come from love, not from anger and hatred?

[B]

I, in fact, I anchored this because this was part of the vision that we are, our work is coming from a place of love. And it's a love for humanity. It's not exceptional love for the Palestinian people because we wanted to restore human rights and we were advocating for a peaceful resolution and everything in terms of principles that we were asking for. And we built a huge coalition, in fact, the largest coalition in the history of Columbia University, more than 130 organizations were part of it and thousands of students. It was a movement for justice and the movement for humanity and continued to be this way to a certain level. I think that there was a level of divide because there was serious level of trauma that students started experiencing and injustice. Columbia administration unfortunately participated in that systematic discrimination against students who were advocating for Palestine peacefully and lovingly for human rights. And then the images that we were seeing coming from Gaza, like live images of children by the hundreds and schools being bombed and hospitals being destroyed and graveyards being flipped, it caused, for many who did not know, the spiritual practice, it caused pain and reaction to pain where anger and resentment started showing up. And that's one of the lessons, in fact, that for I teach coalition buildings for purposes to, to advance causes for justice. It's, it's a very serious art and it has many different elements to it. So I go to teach different communities how to build coalitions and to keep it grounded. And one of the most important parts is to have that ability to Regulate the emotions to sustain the movement, to continue to build unity and through empathy and compassion. Because otherwise movements can fall apart and they can get overwhelmed and they can lose sight when you become reactive, when people become reactive.

[A]

I like that you're saying that because it's so honest and real that the forces of. When we feel injured and scared, the human brain goes into very naturally hatred and aggression and it happens in so called every side. So, you know, and so unless there is a conscious, explicit intention to cultivate the qualities of presence and compassion, people get pulled into it. So I'm really, I love that you're focusing on that. And I guess what I'd wonder is when you're, let's say you have somebody that's a part of a coalition who is really caught in that kind of hatred and dehumanizing the other side. How do you talk to them or work with them? How do you bring practices that can help them to kind of wake out of what I sometimes call a trance of reactivity?

[B]

Yeah, this is a very essential and very important question. The Buddhist practice and understanding and ethics gives a very clear instructions about how to do that, how to break through the separation that is an illusion. How to be able to relate to others through empathy and compassion. And how. And what does it mean to empathize without justifying the harm that is being done? So I simplified the teaching in a way that can fit anybody, even if they are not practicing Buddhism. And the teaching comes from the basics of it is you need to separate people from systems, systems of oppression. They use people in order to oppress and to cause harm to other people. And if we want to fight for justice, we are fighting the system, not the people. This is one understanding, the other one. The reason why we do that is because again, we come back to the foundation that we believe that the human nature is a good nature. That's the Buddha nature, the Confucius as well, they believe that way. Even Einstein, he said the most important decision, as one friend shared with me, the most important decision that we make in our life is to believe if we, if we live in a friendly world or an aggressive world. And a friendly world means that people have the capacity to be friendly. So the idea is we relate to the people in an empathetic way. What make people be part of a system of injustice? Most of the time it is related to ignorance, it's related to fear, and it's related to segregation. And that's where I say, and when I teach people, I say the human being is not an enemy, if there is an enemy. It's the system that capitalizes on ignorance, on fear, and on separation or segregation, and our duty for a collective liberation, which is also at the core of the Buddhist practice. Liberation from suffering of all being, in fact. And the Bodhisattvas, when we take the O and when we do the vow, it's to liberate all beings. So that is part of the healing, is to liberate the people who are also being used and manipulated by the system of injustice. And they have to explain that when you empathize, you understand the root causes of an issue, and you do not justify what those people, through the system, are doing to others. And I've seen the impact of it in my life. I've spoke with people who were completely filled with hatred and anger and seeing the Palestinians as enemies. And the moment I go and speak with them from a place of empathy, I'm not pointing fingers at them. I'm not blaming them. I'm inviting them to see my pain, my experience, my yearning. And over time, they discover that what we are looking for is not actually different. And they start realizing that the system has been gaslighting them, miseducating them, and using fear and the trauma as a weapon to continue to control them.

[A]

I love what you're describing because it's testimony to the power of love, that if you can be a very embodied transmission of creating a safe space, a respectful space, if there's proximity, if you're close in, it helps people to relax defenses and sense a larger connection. So, like you, I feel like if we can respond by getting that proximity and being the love, that there's amazing hope. Hi, friends. I want to remind you that this conversation continues next week. We'll be exploring the challenges of manifesting love in action. We'll also look at the dimensions of what's possible. So I hope you'll join us then. Thank you.