Caleb Hearon

Summary

Podcast Summary: Thanks Dad with Ego Nwodim

Episode: Caleb Hearon (July 14, 2026, iHeartPodcasts)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Thanks Dad features comedian, actor, and writer Caleb Hearon in a candid, irreverent conversation with host Ego Nwodim. Together, they explore topics ranging from their upbringings and family dynamics, particularly complicated relationships with fathers, to the intricacies of friendship, attachment styles, and the joy of finding community. The episode weaves between humor, heartfelt confessions, and playful banter about everything from strep throat origins to why turkey bacon gets the highest praise.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Lighthearted Banter and Warmth (00:45–03:57)

• Biking, knees, and friendship: Ego and Caleb joke about Caleb’s legs being “fetishized” by their mutual friend, Sydney Washington. Caleb shares he biked an hour to the recording.
• Work & gig life: Caleb lists a string of day jobs (selling heaters, Uber driver, nonprofit, ad agency), reflecting on bad bosses and the evolution from survival jobs to comedy.

Notable Quote

"I just feel crazy in the middle of the day. I'm on a bike and people are, like, out in their suits, like, rushing to get—do you ever feel crazy at times?"
— Ego (01:42)

2. Catching Up: The Pressure of Productivity and New York Summers (03:57–05:02)

• NYC June 2026: Both recall the “electric” atmosphere in New York that month, feeling its FOMO, and discuss the need for downtime afterwards.
• Physical wellness and ongoing illness: Caleb reveals he’s had strep throat five times in 2026, debating whether ass-eating or building mold is to blame, in classic candid fashion.

Notable Moment

"Six hours after really diligently eating ass...I came down with the worst strep I’ve had this year. And then I googled, 'Can you get strep from eating ass?', and the answer is yes."
— Caleb (05:44)

3. Comedy Career & Fans (10:04–11:28)

• Podcasting realities: Caleb observes that fans sometimes think he has long, drawn-out issues due to the time lag in episode releases.
• Fan demographics: Caleb describes fans as split between “the most unemployed people you’ve ever met...and project managers at Deloitte.”

Notable Quote

"If they could find each other...the only way they can is at my shows, and those rooms are limited."
— Caleb (11:24)

4. Navigating Personality and On-Set Dynamics (12:03–14:49)

• Both reflect on a mild set conflict during "Little Brother," underlining the humanity of being cranky but the value of quick apology.
• Caleb shares how striving for positivity and gratitude on set is important to him, given their “charmed” life.

5. Relationship with Fathers and Ancestry (15:34–25:37)

• Difficult dad: Caleb opens up about his father’s rage issues and social withdrawal, shaped by mental health struggles.
• Empathy and reconciliation: They discuss coming to terms with parental flaws as adults and the late-life honesty Caleb shared with his dad.
• Family origins: Hilariously frank about being an “accident,” Caleb explains how his parents hooked up once, leading to his birth, and his mom taking on single motherhood.

Notable Quote

"He [dad] was very intelligent, but he was so mean...fly off the handle at people over nothing...now that I have children I love in my life, I can't even imagine getting to that place with a child."
— Caleb (16:10)

6. Maternal Bonds & Privacy (25:48–27:59)

• Caleb and Ego compare boundaries around sharing personal life online and why some things (family, home, love life) remain off-limits.
• Caleb deeply admires his mom’s warmth, humor, and openness.

Caleb on his mom:

"She just doesn't dislike anybody...the way that she loves people is so inspiring to me."
— Caleb (29:08)

7. Food, Indulgence, and Dinner Memories (30:32–31:29)

• Shared dinner anecdotes—Ego is “that friend” who orders everything, much to Caleb’s delight.
• Joking about “butter noodles” as a meal and food joy as part of friendship.

8. On Sharing Stories About Friends (32:12–34:02)

• Both discuss the ethics and fallout of sharing real-life stories about people in podcasting, striving for discretion and responsibility.

Notable Quote

"Even just...I don't want people...to feel like I'm pimping them out for content."
— Caleb (33:21)

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"Thanks"-ing Segment: Who/What Are You Thankful For? (34:06–39:20)

Caleb offers up a comic and poignant list:

• Turkey Bacon: “Tastes almost as good as regular bacon, and it doesn’t make me feel bad.” (34:29)
• Fat Girls: “Every ounce of confidence I have is because of fat girls. Namely, Monique.” (36:05)
• Sunsets—especially pink and orange: “I cry almost every bike ride. And I cry every third sunset.” (37:57)
• Andre 3000: “He does what feels artistically fulfilling to him without regard for what’s expected...That’s liberty. That’s actually bravery.” (42:27)

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Deep Dive: Art, Music, and Attachment (41:51–57:25)

• On Andre 3000 and creative bravery: Caleb admires doing the unexpected with honesty—using the flute album as a case study.
• Relationship flaws: Caleb admits to needing independence and possibly prioritizing career over partnership.
• Attachment styles: Live on the pod, they try (and fail) to call Caleb’s ex for direct feedback; friends weigh in that he’s “secure-leaning with a dash of avoidant.”

Notable Quote

"I actually don’t need you and I don’t want to need you...I want you, and I think that's so much more romantic."
— Caleb (52:56)

Relationship Dynamics

• Both agree being friends with exes depends on the quality of the split (“Some people are demons!” — Ego, 57:45).
• Not everyone’s narrative of “I don’t say anything bad about exes” is as virtuous as it’s made to sound.

Skipping Down to Specifics

• Music interludes on albums: why some work (Lauryn Hill, Frank Ocean), and some—like Druski’s on Bieber's “Swag 2”—do not.
• Playful analysis of bike riding in NYC, the best routes, and a commitment to try a “city bike adventure” together.

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Game Time: “Thanks / No Thanks” (60:54–63:42)

• Self-help book gift: “No thanks. That would piss me off. I will smack the out of you.” (60:59)
• All-expense trip to ‘The Orb’: “No thanks. Nothing is free, I'd rather pay.” (61:18)
• Bumper sticker with sexual innuendo: “Thanks. I like a little humor." (62:01)
• Oil painting of self: “Thanks. I think that’s deeply funny.” (62:23)
• The gift of more time: “Thanks. I'm obsessed with being alive...never want it to end.” (62:34)
• Aging: “Every year I get older, I feel more myself...I don't desire to be young.” (62:53)

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Wrap-Up: Listener and Guest Questions (63:50–69:54)

• Q (Chris Maloney): Who will be the 2028 presidential nominees and will Celine Dion be part of government?
  • Caleb predicts J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio on the right, and perhaps a surprise candidate or Andy Beshear on the left; Celine “will be as much a part of everything as she always is, but not officially.” (65:10–67:13)
  • Caleb’s question for the next guest: “What’s something you were wrong about recently?” (67:15)
• Discussion about the joy, humility, and thrill of being wrong—and why apologizing is a sign of strength, not weakness.

Notable Quote

“Being wrong is a thrill...Being able to admit you were wrong, apologizing for being wrong, and getting to that place where you get a new level of intimacy—even with a stranger...So I love being wrong. I think it's a thrill.”
— Caleb (69:13)

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Memorable & Quotable Moments

• “Six hours after really diligently eating ass...I came down with the worst strep I’ve had this year.” (05:44)
• “I want to say thank you to turkey bacon. Love her work.” (34:30)
• “Every ounce of confidence I have in my life is because of fat girls.” (36:05)
• “Being wrong is a thrill.” (69:13)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:45–03:57: Biking, knees, day jobs
• 05:06–07:40: Five-times strep, infectious disease theory
• 15:34–19:51: Parental rage, childhood memories, reconciliation
• 34:06–39:20: Caleb’s gratitude list (turkey bacon, fat girls, sunsets, Andre 3000)
• 41:51–47:00: Artistry, music interludes, Andre 3000 & Bieber
• 52:34–57:01: Relationships; needing vs. wanting a partner
• 62:34–63:42: Aging, appreciation for being alive
• 67:15: “What’s something you were wrong about recently?”

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Conclusion

This episode blends heartfelt lessons about family, humor about the human condition, and sharp takes on culture and relationships—with Ego’s grounded hosting drawing out Caleb’s wit, honesty, and warmth. For anyone negotiating the meaning of “thanks,” and “dad,” or just needing a good laugh at life’s wildness, this one is essential listening.

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[Note: Ads, intros, outros, and production credits have been skipped.]

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human.

[A]

Playing mobile games and not getting rewarded for it is a thing of the past.

[B]

Why haven't you switched yet? If you're gonna spend the time playing, you should be earning rewards, doing it.

[A]

With Mistplay, you play what you love and earn points for gift cards and more. Plus, you can enter the Mistplay sweepstakes for your chance to win tens of thousands of dollars in cash bundles and gift cards every week. So, yeah, keep playing games, just maybe get rewarded for it. Download Mistplay today and enter for your chance to win. Caleb, we need to address something.

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

I haven't seen your knees.

[B]

You like them?

[A]

I love them.

[B]

You like these guys right here?

[A]

I love them.

[B]

Do you know who's really fetishizing and sexualizing my legs these days?

[A]

Who?

[B]

Our dear friend Sydney Washington.

[A]

Sydney Washington loves your legs.

[B]

Time I see her in the summer and the legs are out. She pulls out her phone, starts taking pictures, recording. She's perverted.

[A]

It's really okay. Sydney's a freak.

[B]

It means the world to me.

[A]

Okay, well, I should start complimenting your knees. I want that energy.

[B]

Compliment my knees, my legs, anything you want.

[A]

Beautiful legs.

[B]

I work hard on it.

[A]

You bike for real?

[B]

I biked over here today.

[A]

Which is. How long was that?

[B]

It was about an hour.

[A]

So when you sent me that picture, I was like, that. He could be anywhere right now. But I love your bike pics, by the way.

[B]

I was. I was. I had the. I was in my little tank top. I had the arms out.

[A]

Did you put a shirt on for me?

[B]

Well, I. I brought shirt because I knew I wouldn't do the podcast in a tank top.

[A]

Why wouldn't you?

[B]

Well, that just feels like. Come on, Caleb, act like you care about something at all. Ever. We bare. I barely have a job. You know what I mean? It's like the least I can do is put on a shirt.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

Do you feel like that? I just feel crazy in the middle of the day. I'm on a bike and people are, like, out in their suits, like, rushing to get.

[A]

Yes, I do feel crazy at times. Like, I think I was walking my dog two days ago in the afternoon, and I go, what do I do?

[B]

Yeah. I remember when I moved to Chicago, dude, and I was, like, doing improv and I was working day jobs, and I would step out for 20 minutes to grab lunch when my boss wasn't yelling at me for not doing my job. They were right. I would see people out having fun at the park, and I Get the museum. And I was like, what do you fucking people do? And they might have been podcasters.

[A]

They might have been podcasters. Comedians, Comedians, actors. Wait, I need to do an intro for you because I could go way too deep. Don't be sorry. Everything goes here. Everything's allowed. Everything's allowed. But I also. I have a question about the day job. What was the day job? Sorry.

[B]

Oh, I had so many.

[A]

What was the one where you were bad at and you were getting yelled at?

[B]

All of them. I worked. I sold heaters and air conditioners. I worked at a venture capital firm. I worked at an ad agency. I worked at a nonprofit. I walked dogs.

[A]

Oh, you did it.

[B]

I drove for Uber. I had a lot of different survival jobs.

[A]

Okay. Damn. Do any of those bosses contact you now to be like, hey, buddy, really proud of you and your stuff?

[B]

I'm friends with several of my bosses and coworkers from that period, and there are a few that I've thought about, like, doing, like, petty revenge type stuff towards. And then I've realized that that's ridiculous and I need to grow up.

[A]

And this is a perfect time to do an intro for you, a saint. My next guest is a comedian and actor who, you know, from the Devil Wears Prada to his product. Oh. Oh, my gosh. I'm getting flustered. Sorry. I'm getting flustered. I'm intimidated by you. Okay. You know I love you. My next guest is a comedian and actor who, you know from the Devil Wears Prada, too. His podcast, so True. And little brother on Netflix, they wrote little brothers.

[B]

No, our film.

[A]

Our film.

[B]

Little brothers. Plural.

[A]

Little brothers. It's just one.

[B]

There are actually multiple little brothers. If you think about.

[A]

If you think about it in the film, there are. Yeah, but it could throw people off.

[B]

Yeah. It's just gotta be a little particular.

[A]

The A story is about one little brother.

[B]

One little brother number. By the way, speaking of1. Number one on Netflix. Thank you.

[A]

Number one on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, tune in. That was a gorgeous plug.

[B]

You like that?

[A]

Okay, wait. I haven't even said your name, motherfucker. My next guest, it's Caleb Heron. The crowd goes wild. They're going crazy. They're like, oh, fireworks noises.

[B]

Fireworks noises. Sirens.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. What did you do for Fourth of July?

[B]

It was so hot that I had a couple friends over to my living room. I made a pasta salad and we watched the sand lot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then we went to my roof and watched fireworks for exactly 37 minutes. And then I Said, everyone, go home. I'm going to bed.

[A]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

Basically, what I've been saying is, and I wonder if you felt this because you've been traveling.

[A]

I've been traveling.

[B]

We had a June 2026 in New York that will be talked about for the rest of all time.

[A]

Do you know it wasn't here. And that pisses me clean off.

[B]

I'm scared to bring it up because it's hateful.

[A]

It is hateful, and I'm incredibly triggered by it. My physical therapist brought it up yesterday. I'm like, I'm triggered. I wasn't here. I wasn't here. I. I wanted to be here. I was watching it from my phone, like, I can't believe I'm there. New Yorkers deal with so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What a winter. Right? And that. June 2026.

[B]

June 2026. Just one word. Electric. It was completely electric. June 2026. It was. I don't know, it was magic. It was special. Something was happening. And so, basically, now that July's arrived, I do need everyone to leave me alone.

[A]

You want to be in the house?

[B]

I need to be in the house. I need to be left alone. I got strep throat again.

[A]

You got strep throat? You know, I feel like I saw you posted about having strep throat. How many times have.

[B]

So basically, I'm going to say a number that's going to be alarming to both the average person and the medical professional.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Is going to be the fifth time

[A]

I've had it this year in 2026. And it is but July.

[B]

It is but July. And. And you're wondering, is that medically possible? And the answer is almost barely. And they are going to want to do a tonsillectomy. I've never had my. My mom. I was talking to her, and I was like, did I have, like, tonsillitis or any of this stuff growing up? And she was like, never.

[A]

What?

[B]

So something has occurred. Yeah, I think I've got theories about it that I'll talk about off cam.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

But I will say this much. The most recent time I got strep, which was last week. I'm not contagious. Don't worry. I got it. Six hours after really diligently eating ass.

[A]

You were eating ass?

[B]

I ate ass very diligently. As a team player and a caregiver lover.

[A]

Okay. Yes.

[B]

And six hours later, I came down with the worst strep I've had this year. And then I googled, can you get strapped from eating ass? And the answer is yes.

[A]

Yes. By the way, you said you would. You have theories. You tell me off camera. And this is something you were willing to tell me on camera. So I am, I am on the edge of my seat and do you know it's so about what the off camera theories are.

[B]

I'll just tell you the off camera one on camera. I don't know why I was being secretive about it. It's that I think my building might have mold.

[A]

Wait, this is so ass backwards.

[B]

No idea.

[A]

Speaking of eating ass. That was ass backwards.

[B]

That was ass backwards.

[A]

You should have saved the eating ass for off camera. The building mold thing for on camera.

[B]

No, you have to understand, there's probably none of your listeners that can do anything about my building having mold. Yes, there are probably quite a few of your listeners whose ass I could eat.

[A]

Oh, I see. But. But you're not the one who gave. You didn't eat ass and then did he get strep in his ass?

[B]

No, I think I got strep in my throat and mouth.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So like saying, but you're not, you're. I feel if you have strep throat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you eat someone's ass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is separate because I understand how you're saying you may have contracted it.

[B]

You're wondering if he could have gotten it.

[A]

Could he get it?

[B]

I believe that strep can take umbrage in the asshole.

[A]

Has your Google research told you this?

[B]

I believe, from what I remember reading, I believe, I understand that this, this young man could have received strep through his ass. Asshole from me. But I don't know, maybe it was already in his asshole and that's how you got it.

[A]

Obviously.

[B]

And I got it.

[A]

Okay. Have you contacted him? Have you contacted him to be like you? I might have given you strep in your ass.

[B]

We were in touch.

[A]

Or. Or you gave me strep from your ass. You're in touch.

[B]

We're in touch.

[A]

You guys are still intimate.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Beautiful. I love that. Okay, good. Okay.

[B]

So basically, yeah, I can. I'm getting strep throat more than almost anyone does anything. And we're taking a look at all the options.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so basically, yeah, June was. June was tough.

[A]

That was. Just had strep. Okay. When you say you're not contagious, you're. You don't have it anymore right now. Right.

[B]

Like I'm, I'm on the end of the antibiotics, but I am medically not contagious after you're on it for 48 hours, and I've been on it for like seven or eight days or something.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A nice CPA or a C pack. No Z backs. Shorter, I guess it's six days.

[B]

What is Z pack?

[A]

A zithromycin.

[B]

What does that do?

[A]

Antibiotic. I love. I love Z packs.

[B]

Oh, nice. Antibiotics.

[A]

It's an antibiotic. I mean, you can't just, like, get it, but when you can get it, it's nice because it just knocks whatever right out of there.

[B]

Can I just say the. You know a lot of problems with medicine in this country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I go to urgent care when I get strep throat and I go, hey, I have strep throat. And they go, we have to test you. And I go, you really don't need to spend the money and the time on the test.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You really need to just give me antibiotics. It's not like I'm going into an alley and fucking shooting up with amoxicillin. Yes, give me the goddamn antibiotics.

[A]

And it's not. Yeah, it's not a narcotic. Well, the way that I feel, like, the way they are stingy with the antibiotics. And I get it. Resistance you could develop. But our elders were taking antibiotics all willy nilly. And I think all the ones I know are fine.

[B]

They're completely fine. And we need to stop. Basically, it's. It's just an industrial complex where they're like, well, we do need to charge you 250 for the visit. And I'm like, all you need to do is get out your little fucking pad and write amoxicillin. 10 days. Caleb, knock it off.

[A]

Don't even need to sign your name. We should take over the healthcare industry. Because also, not only did you discern where you got the strep from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You also are like, this is how we should be handling the medicine. And I'm not mad at it. I had never had strep. My cousin used to get it all the time growing up. I never got strep. I got strep for the first time, like three years ago.

[B]

How'd it feel?

[A]

Awful. Like your throat is on fight. No, four years ago. Your throat. It's like your fire is happening inside of your throat. That is one of them. And I had just had a conversation with someone when I got it about how I've never had it. And who knows, maybe they gave it to me, but it was like, I've never had. And they're like, what? Never? You're an adult. And I'm like, never had strep. And I thought, well, maybe I have. And I didn't know it, but when you have strep, you know you have

[B]

strep, you know it. And I get a version that makes me throw up as well. Oh, can you believe that?

[A]

Oh, that's awful.

[B]

Really.

[A]

Oh. And that's one of this. That's one of the possible symptoms. That's crazy.

[B]

Really crazy. And what I can say is I feel bad for anyone who listens to your show that also listens to me on other podcasts, because what kind of happens in my life is where I think when I did Stradio Lab, I was in an itwitch era. Whatever's going on in my life, I'm recording, you know, seven podcasts a week. Every week.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's basically like a series for months because these things get put out at different times for months. People who listen to me on shows are just hearing me talk about whatever I was going through that week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so then it feels like for five months I've been going through the I twitch, when in fact it was an eight day period.

[A]

And I happened to do four podcasts,

[B]

I happened to do four other people's podcasts, and then I was banking like seven of my own.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So it's gonna go ahead and last until the fall. Me talking about they're invested.

[A]

Your. Your fans are loyal to the soil

[B]

when they couldn't be sweeter. Yeah, I have the nicest. I don't know how this happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mostly they don't have jobs. These folks are unemployed. And so they are. They have the time to hang out and listen to me on the podcast.

[A]

Do you in fact, know people?

[B]

A lot of my fans are unemployed. Here's. My fans are only on two ends of a spectrum that's like completely weighted to both ends. Nothing in the middle. They are the most unemployed people you've ever met. And they have beautiful, beautiful hearts and minds. And I think they could change this world if they got together. And then on the other end, they're project managers at Deloitte, one of the most employed ways you can be.

[A]

And together. What a stunning community.

[B]

If they could find each other.

[A]

If they could find each other.

[B]

The only way they can find each other is at my shows. And those rooms are limited. So I don't know how we're going to get everyone.

[A]

Like a convention. A so true convention.

[B]

Yeah, that would be beautiful.

[A]

You're such an independent producer in so many ways. I admire it. The things you're able to do. I'm not kidding. Why is me being earnest Funny?

[B]

I just love. I just love you. So when you're. When you compliment me, I'm like, I

[A]

swear I admire it. And I'm like, I feel like we could throw. I. I want to be involved. A so true convention.

[B]

Let's throw this. So true Vention.

[A]

So true Venture.

[B]

Vention.

[A]

Which could also be.

[B]

Makes it sound like an intervention for me. Yeah. Makes it sound like we're gonna try and fix something about me.

[A]

Caleb's, too, all over the place.

[B]

What would you fix about me?

[A]

Oh, do you know, I used to ask my friends that I felt safe with and whom I loved dearly and knew loved me, and I'd ask them, and these are, like, in private conversations. What's something about me you don't like? Yeah, what would I fix about you?

[B]

Yeah, what would you change about me?

[A]

I don't think I would change anything about you. I think you're perfect.

[B]

Okay, I believe you.

[A]

I don't think. Let me think about this. What would I change about Caleb?

[B]

I'm pretty obstinate. I have to have my way a lot. I didn't play with you that one time when we were having a bad day.

[A]

Do you still think about that day on set or you didn't play with, but you said sorry.

[B]

I did immediately. It was funny. We were on set for Little Brother.

[A]

Tell the store. Tell the tea.

[B]

We were on set for Little Brother, and I was being cranky. And Ego could have also been cranky because we were. It was just a long day, and making films is really hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Eggo was, like, trying to be playful with me to. Ego was trying to be playful with me to, like, keep us out of the mood. And you were being so fun, and I think I just didn't respond or something.

[A]

No, you said, like. You were like, I can't even do this right now. And I was like, that's fine, because here's my thing. Because I can be incredibly introverted. And when someone is, like, meeting me with their energy and, in a sense, trying to make me responsible for their energy and engage with their energy, I'm sort of like, I don't have to. So when you said that and the fact that you still think about it, I'm like, honey, I wasn't tripping then. I'm not not tripping. You weren't.

[B]

You were totally tripping.

[A]

You were like, that's fine. Yeah, because I was trying to keep us light, which, by the way. I never do. And because you've traumatized me, I'll never do again. I'm never the person trying to. Like, I don't want to lighten the mood. Yeah. I'm like, let everybody be where they are. But for whatever reason, I think I got a second win. And I was like, Caleb. And it wasn't even. I wasn't even doing too much.

[B]

No, you weren't.

[A]

You were just like. You were like, I don't have it. But I didn't. I didn't take it personally because I was like, he's tired. It has been a long day. I literally didn't. I was like, that's fine.

[B]

I think 25 seconds elapsed before I apologized.

[A]

Yeah. It was so quick. You were just like, I'm sorry.

[B]

I'm so sorry.

[A]

That was the fact that you still think about that day.

[B]

Well, I do, because I also. I'm a big believer in the. In, like, I like that. I like being. I'm like, there is no reason we need to be in a bad mood. Our lives are very charmed. I'm like, I feel so lucky for this life. And, like, being stressed out on a film set when people, like, work in fucking. I don't know, it just makes me feel crazy. Like, I just feel so lucky that I really do want to, as much as I possibly can, like, be in an awesome mood, make everybody feel good, like, be nice and a joy to be around. So then for someone to try to. To get put in the effort, the friendly, like, kind, loving effort to, like, invite me to that, and then for me to accidentally shut it down, I am like, oh, that was a real. Like, I don't want that.

[A]

But you were tired.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I'm. I. I hear you. And we do live really charmed lives. And there's so much to be grateful for and comp. Comparison to what kind of lives we could be living. This is insane. Yeah. Like, we're. We're in a white room with fake plants and a white room with fake plants, and people are letting us just talk into microphones. What a joy. And at the same time, you're a human. I. You're human. And to have a lapse for whatever amount of time that was to be like, no, I'm not in the mood. I don't know. I think it's okay. I think it's okay. I think it's okay. It's okay. And also, you, globally, as a person, understand how charmed and privileged your life is now compared again to what it could be. And I think that's the thing that's important when you've lost sight of that completely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now we're in the danger zone. But you're allowed to have human moments. That's kind of, that's my rules. People are allowed to have their human moments.

[B]

Yeah. I think the important thing is the speed. That's the thing I feel good about is I'm like, how quickly can you get out of it? Yeah, that's the thing I feel good about is I'm. I can be grumpy and I can be like, yeah, there, there are ways I can be. I can be like dismissive or short, but I'm always quickly out of it and that makes me feel good. I was talking to somebody the other day about how I try to remind myself when I do get down on myself for having little moments of like shortness or whatever, that I'm like, my dad was a nightmare. Like my dad, My dad was a nightmare.

[A]

What was your dad's deal?

[B]

My dad, he was, he was very intelligent, but he was an, he was so mean. He would fly off the handle at people over nothing. He was like anti social and he got away with it a lot because he was very smart and smart people can get away with those things. But my dad would freak out about the tiniest thing. Like just, yeah, total rage. Rage, rage, rage, rage, rage, rage.

[A]

Do you have any specific memory from childhood of him like just completely popping off and you're like, your response is incongruent to what's happening right now? I'm confused.

[B]

Oh my God. So many that like he would, he would do things that were actively like he would stay up all night playing. He was a big like desktop gamer guy. So I would go to his house for like, you know, a three day weekend or something and he would not take me to the park, not let me play outside, not let me see my friends. Because he didn't want to go anywhere because he was agoraphobic. So he would, I would sit in his house. Dark apartment. Dark apartment. And he would game all night long and then go to bed at like 5 in the morning. And then I, as a child who is being deprived of any like, social life or like activity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would wake up at like 6 or 7 and like go and try and make myself breakfast. And if I made a noise that woke him up, like he would scream, freak out. And he never like hit me or anything, but like he would just like scream and freak out and be so angry at a Child. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which as an adult now that has children that I love in my life, I can't even imagine getting to that place with a child.

[A]

You know, I've had experiences in childhood that were not, I've said in any way capital T traumatic, and honestly, not even lowercase T traumatic. But they've stuck with me where I go, man. Now that I'm an adult, I would never engage with a child like that ever. Like, at 30 something, even 20 something, being like, I used to babysit kids. Being like, I would never think to engage with a child. Some of the ways adults had engaged with me when I was a child. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have grace for them that we know what we know now and they knew what they knew and they had the tools they had. But I'm like, damn, it's really wild now that. And also to be like, you have some sense at this age, though. And so it's an interesting instinct when in those positions, you're like, I'm gonna kind of do the wild thing, like yell at a child for making noise with the toaster.

[B]

And it's like the. The really confusing and upsetting thing about it is, of course I get that upset with children. Children are very annoying. They don't listen. They don't know anything. They've like, barely been here. They're. They're. They are too loud.

[A]

You've barely been here.

[B]

Barely been here. You know nothing. You are being too loud. Like, I get that upset with them. But you're an adult. Like, you have the responsibility to go like, that is a dumb, small person who knows nothing. I can't, like, scream at them. You know what I mean? They don't know how to work a bowl.

[A]

Like, it's like they're gonna drop it big. I'm big adult person and this is little person, and they can't do anything about this. What was your relationship like over time with your dad? Did it sort of stay in this tense place or.

[B]

No, we got to a really good place, actually. I feel very grateful before he passed. Like, we, we. He never went to therapy, which I think would have really broken things open for us. And that is a sadness that I have about his life. But we got to a really good place where we were able to be really honest with each other. And actually, thank God he told me all the things he ended up telling me about his mental health. I developed a lot of empathy for him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was able to be like, we also. It was just this Funny thing where my dad was extremely mentally ill, but he was, in my estimation, kind of obsessed with being a victim to it. And that can be pretty tough language to use. But, like, I just feel like, well, yeah, man, I don't know. You're like, 40. You are gonna have to figure out how to deal with your depression. I guess, like, we're all sad. Life is hard for everybody. But we got to a place where I was like, I do understand why that would make you act in X, y, and Z ways. And I do understand how having a kid would trigger a lot of those things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you feel you're in the shame spiral of, like, I'm no fun. I'm a sad person who stays in the house. Now my kid's here. I'm sad and in the house around my kid. Like, I understand the shame kind of tornado that we create.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we got to a pretty understanding place where I was like, damn, you really just kind of had a kid on accident. Because him and my mom were not even together, really. They were friends. They hooked up one time.

[A]

They hooked up their friends, and they hooked up one time. And my mom got pregnant, got pregnant with a legend, Got pregnant with a

[B]

fucking icon, Gave birth to a goat. I'm like, no. I tell my mom all the time, like, totally, 100,000% should have had an abortion. Didn't. And then my dad was like, oh, I have a kid now. I feel for him. That must really suck.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So when they hooked up as friends, was he in obviously more of a social place or, like, what was friendship?

[B]

Like, this is actually the scariest thing my dad ever said to me is I remember so vividly when I was like, I've always been very, like, outgoing and social. And when I was, like, 15, my dad was like, I used to be just like you. And I was like, hey, so put that on the list of things you don't say to me, because now your life does not look appealing to me at all.

[A]

Yeah. And you were like, are you suggesting I'm going to be looking like this?

[B]

The implication, yeah. Implication. Yeah. It was really scary. He's like, yeah. One day, something just. A switch just. Just flipped, and I couldn't do it anymore. And I was like, okay, sounds good.

[A]

Do you ever worry that that's gonna happen to you?

[B]

No, because the switch that flipped did happen to me, and it's called depression, and it happens to a lot of people. And then I dealt with it. So that was. That was a place that we were able to get to where I was. Like, the switch that flipped that you're referring to is untreated mental health problems. And actually, you just needed, like, coping mechanisms and help. And God love you, you were a straight man. And, like, the 80s and 90s, like, I. I'm assuming it was a much different thing to try and navigate. Yeah, but, yeah, the switch that flipped was just. You didn't deal with your depression and anxiety.

[A]

Right. Did your. And your mom making the choice to give birth to an icon.

[B]

Shout out, Kelly. Thanks, girl.

[A]

You said she should have had an abortion. I mean, I would have been deprived of a friend. Absolutely. Would have been her choice. We would have supported it for sure, girl. Why did she choose not to?

[B]

Well, she already had my brother. My brother's four years older than me. That is, like, the most obvious abortion she should have had.

[A]

It's like, you're, like, what, you think Kelly shouldn't have had kids at all?

[B]

Girl, she threw her life. I mean, not. I mean, she's 17. She had, like. Was gonna go to college and play softball. Like, would have. Her life would have been fundamentally different. Am I glad she didn't? Of course. I love being alive. It's gotta be one of my top five favorite things.

[A]

I have to find out the other four in a moment.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'll tell you, these are my thank yous. I've been thinking about my thank yous.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

And I'm sorry, but, yeah, being alive. Love obsessed, never want it to end. Kind of addicted to it. But, yeah, I think if you're 17 years old and single and, like, about to go to college, would I have told her, as her friend, like, go ahead and see the doctor about that baby?

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I would have. Then she didn't. And then she had my brother. He turned out fine. But then she had me, and that was a really good one.

[A]

So she. At 21.

[B]

Yeah, she had me when she was 21.

[A]

Yeah, you were the really good one because you're you.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just amazing. My brother's, like, fine. My brother's, like, totally fine. Not a complete dud. But, like, I'm definitely like my mom. Like, second time we got it right.

[A]

Does your brother know you think he's kind of a dud?

[B]

Oh, totally. Yeah.

[A]

Do you guys not get along?

[B]

Not really.

[A]

Okay, so that's. That's.

[B]

He won't watch this, by the way.

[A]

Are you sure, Caleb? I couldn't get it to. I couldn't get him to watch.

[B]

I'm sure. I'm sure it's not about you. It's not about you. No. My brother's cool. He's fine. It's just. I think my mom and I are much more alike, and so, you know, we're first. That's my girl.

[A]

Yeah. What are your. What traits of your dad do you believe you have?

[B]

Unfortunately, depression went ahead and took that one from him. I like to think I'm. My dad was very funny, and I like to think that part of. So is my mom. I like to think that part of my humor is from my dad. And my dad's really smart. I would like to think I'm smart and, like, critical. Like, critical thinking about things. And not just. My dad questioned everything, which was a really annoying trait of his, but also, I think, an admirable one in some ways. And I also feel like I have that, and I got it from him. I don't know my dad, really. I think his best quality was he was obsessed with fairness. He was really obsessed with fairness, which can be a tough thing to be obsessed with in this life, in life,

[A]

because life simply is not fair.

[B]

It's not really shaking out that way. But he was really obsessed with fairness in a way that I thought was very admirable.

[A]

Yeah. Are you close to anyone from his family?

[B]

All of them.

[A]

All of them. Okay.

[B]

All of them. That's actually the thing is my dad, so my mom, when she gave birth to me, my dad was like, that's not my baby. And my mom was like, I haven't had sex with anyone else. And my dad was like, that's crazy. Anyway, I'm out of here. So he was like, I'm not gonna be involved. Which, honestly, huge mood. Totally get it, Kayla. Like, seriously. I mean, tough for my mom, but I'm like, yeah, I. I understand the impulse to be like, I'm actually not trying to raise a kid with you right now.

[A]

You are my home girl.

[B]

I'm out of here. Yeah, sorry. We're buddies. You're gonna have to handle that one.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then he pieced out of my mom. She heroically had me anyway, gave me her last name, didn't put him on the birth certificate. Icon legend.

[A]

Okay, so Heron is mom's last name, okay?

[B]

And it's like, you got it, brother.

[A]

And it's in lights. It's in the title of this podcast.

[B]

She said, hey, baby, if you don't want to do it, that's all good. He gets my name.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then my dad's mom, my grandma Lillian, Basically, when I was, I think like one. She was like, this is ridiculous. The kid looks like you like this. Come on. And then so basically they were like, we're just gonna help out. So her and my aunt and my uncle on my dad's side, they were all participating with my mom. And then my dad was like, all right, that's my kid.

[A]

Yes, I'll claim him. I was really trying to deny this. Like, baby, has your face truly looked like him?

[B]

So he was like, okay, he can come sit in the house while I play video games. So then there was that.

[A]

You said you had a lot in common with your mom. You have a lot in common with your mom. What are your two similarities?

[B]

You haven't met my mom, have you?

[A]

You? I haven't. I've heard wonderful things about her from you.

[B]

You and my mom are going to key.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

You're going to love.

[A]

Is she coming to the city sometime soon?

[B]

I hope soon. Dude, she's the best.

[A]

Or should I go to Kansas City? Cuz I'm supposed to go see Heidi and maybe I can go see your mom.

[B]

It really is crazy that Heidi and I both live in Kansas City and you haven't come and done like a week with us both there. We need to the three of us get on a phone.

[A]

We're going to get on the phone. Yeah, we're going to get on the horn.

[B]

We need to get on.

[A]

It's going to happen. It's going to happen.

[B]

Heidi has a gorgeous home in Kansas City.

[A]

Gorgeous. It's on the Internet.

[B]

It's on the Internet even.

[A]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[B]

I will say Heidi. Heidi be post house.

[A]

How do you feel about posting house.

[B]

I'm not posting my house.

[A]

I'm not posting my house. But it's even. I don't want to put. I don't want my house on the Internet.

[B]

Well, she has a gorgeous home, but beautiful. So do I. I'm not posting. I'm not posting my.

[A]

You don't want ARC digest to come do.

[B]

I don't actually. I don't want anything.

[A]

What is your aversion to it for you?

[B]

What's my aversion? Yeah, my. This job is. I am very, very grateful for but it's very exposing and I feel like I like to share about myself. It's. It's comfortable and easy to me at this point. There are just like a few final, like last bastions of private life that I have. One is my love life. I talk about my sex life all day, but my love Life is very different.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

And my home life and my family, those are things that I just like. I don't post my. Like my little cousins on. On Maine. I don't want to post my home. I don't. I just really, really, really want, like, tiny little areas of life where I can be, like, a regular person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And my home is very sacred to me.

[A]

I get that. Because I feel like my. I feel that way about my home and my family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. Yeah. I try to just maintain a boundary there. How do you do it? By not posting, Sharing. And then people, like, we don't really feel like we have a sense of who you are on the Internet. I'm like, you want me post my house? I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. And it is nice to get to share what you want to share, but to have some things that are just for you and, like, you, the human, not the performer, feels really important and special to me. So, Yeah, I just had, like. I'm not gonna. I don't have to share all that. Now back to the. You and your mom having traits in common.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I haven't met her. I want to meet her. We're gonna make it happen.

[B]

You're doing really good at keeping this episode about me.

[A]

You know, I slept four hours. Thank you so much.

[B]

You're doing a really good job.

[A]

Because who the fuck wants to hear about me?

[B]

Me. And usually I'm. Usually I'm better at. But I'm. Because I'm so comfortable with you, I'm actually talking a lot about myself in a way that's feeling.

[A]

Yes. But, you know, I came into your podcast, which I'd love, love to do again, I haven't heard back. I'm gonna call back. No. I had so much fun with you, but because this is. This episode is dedicated to you, and it's devoted to you. I want to know what you and your mom have in common.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. My mom is. My mom is the funniest, nicest. If I have anything in common with my mom, it's, like the biggest gift in the world. I hope that I have a lot in common with her. She's the coolest person ever. Everybody loves my mom. She's so funny. She's so nice. She literally loves everybody. She's like. Like, she's the type of person that, like, makes you. Well, you are Christian. But she makes me want to. She makes me feel better about Christianity. I grew up around so many Christians. That made me feel like it was a Very negative Faith. And my mom just genuinely loves everybody. They can't get her not to like she's around, you know, she's in, she's in Kansas, in Missouri. Like there are a lot of like regressive kind of like, I don't know, I just. The way that my mom, even as a, a woman from a certain time in Missouri, Missouri's about 20 years behind everything, so you have to imagine, you know what I mean?

[A]

Ok.

[B]

But she just doesn't, she doesn't dislike anybody they can't get her to. And I feel she's so surrounded by a kind of like opportunity. I just. The way that she loves people is so inspiring to me.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. She's.

[B]

She's loving, she's open hearted, she's funny, she's smart. One thing quality my mom has that I don't have is that she can party. My mom can like drink anyone under the table. I'm a total, I'm. I'm like home.

[A]

Do you wish you could drink more?

[B]

I don't know. I have a lot of addicts in my family, so I get scared of substances in general.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it would be, I think, you know, when I don't like alcohol at all. Do you know when someone's like, ugh, I just want a cold beer right now.

[A]

Oh my goodness. Can't relate.

[B]

I feel that.

[A]

Oh, so you want to feel that? I can. I, I don't want to feel it and I can't. I'm just like, I can't relate. I can't relate to that even. Like, I need a glass of wine. I, I've heard that maybe there's a point in life where I will start to feel like that. Like I have kids and I'm just like, oh, give me a glass of wine. I don't really give a fuck about wine. Yeah, I don't really care about wine. I, I don't drink beer. I don't know too much about it.

[B]

You don't think it would be nice though to have that feeling of like a cold beer would just like fix this day for me right now.

[A]

But does it ever. I don't know.

[B]

They sound happy.

[A]

They seem happy for all of like an hour with the beer, if that. And then they wake up and it's like, fuck, I'm possibly hungover and now it's a new day and I don't have beer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or you could have a beer, but I know I eat and the endorphins pop off. I have to say, I love food. Remember, we went to dinner and I ordered everything on the menu.

[B]

And by the way, people listening, you're gonna think, like, oh, Eggo's being a little, like, exaggerating a bit for the. She ordered everything on the menu and you're thinking, oh, maybe it was like one of those restaurants in New York that has 10. No, it was a big menu, and Eggo ordered everything to the point where the server went, are you guys sure?

[A]

And I said, yes. And I go, I believe in indulging. And that's my kind of. That's my stance. I'm like, we're. We're going to indulge. We're going to enjoy. It's a memory. And then I'm like, we can take it home. Anything we don't eat, we can take home. Someone's going to want to take home. I'll take it home. I have no qualms about a doggy bag.

[B]

Yeah. God bless you. You were right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We had an amazing time.

[A]

We had an amazing time. We parted the food, we rationed it, people. Did you take anything home?

[B]

I don't think I took anything home, but I really. I did my part at the table.

[A]

You did your part at the table. Also, I just saw a viral clip of yours. I was on the plane the other day and I saw a viral clip about the girls eating butter noodles and they think, that's a dinner.

[B]

That's not you.

[A]

And I thought when I saw that, you know, sometimes when your friend is, you know, public a figure and they do an interview or they have a podcast and they're talking about something and it's kind of unbecoming, they're telling a story and the friend they're describing sounds unbecoming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, I hope that wasn't me. I hope I've never done that to them. You knew you were Mark safe. I said, when Caleb is talking about the girls who think that dinner is butter noodles, I said, he's not talking about me. I just knew you knew. I said, no way. He's talking about Merc Safe.

[B]

Mark say, not about you, me and

[A]

a butter noodle, and that's dinner. No way.

[B]

Do you ever get texts, by the way, about things you say on here? Do you ever get texts from people being like, hey, felt like that was maybe.

[A]

No. Have you gotten texts about things you say on your.

[B]

Pretty much every hour of my life.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Because I talk. I never use names. I feel like I'm good at protecting people's, you know. Yeah, yeah, whatever. I'M going through. I'm gonna talk about it.

[A]

Has someone ever been upset with you for bringing up an anecdote even without their name on the podcast?

[B]

There was one time that I stepped in it a little bit, and I. I. This. Actually, this. I want to talk more about this later because I have a thing about it for the questions, but I stepped in. I was wrong. I apologized.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I apologize. I try to be really responsible because I know, you know, people listen to this, which is. It really was more when I started the podcast, because when I started the podcast, I didn't have a huge following. I didn't have, like a. I didn't. It wasn't. It wasn't expected that people were actually going to listen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the podcast really blew up. Up in a way that I was like, oh, I actually have a responsibility. Like, millions of people hear this. That's actually crazy.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And then I felt like, whoa, I need to, like, be cool.

[A]

I need to actually not be. You weren't giving. You were never doing names, though, right?

[B]

I've never been a Names person, but even just. Even just. I don't want people to. In my life to feel like I'm pimping them out for content.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, you say, like, oh, I have this. I'm going through this thing with a friend right now where I was in the wrong in this way, and I thought that was kind of interesting. You know, who knows where the line is on that?

[A]

Yeah. It's hard to say. Are you offended when you hear anecdotes about you on the podcast? Never.

[B]

Yeah, never. I'm. Because I also. Oh, I feel. I feel okay about everything. I do.

[A]

I know that's right.

[B]

I feel fine. I feel like I. Even if I'm wrong, I'm like, that's okay. You're allowed to be wrong sometimes.

[A]

You are allowed to be. Listen. That's a fact. Let that be the episode title. You're allowed to be in a mood, and you're allowed to be wrong.

[B]

You're allowed to be in a mood. You're allowed to be wrong sometimes.

[A]

That's okay. Okay, Caleb, let's. We're gonna take it back.

[B]

Let's go back.

[A]

Who or what do you want to say thanks to?

[B]

I really have been thinking about this, and I have a couple that I just want to. If I can just, like, thank a couple different things.

[A]

This is like someone doing multiple subway takes now that. But I like this.

[B]

Fine with me.

[A]

Okay. Have you been on subway takes?

[B]

I have not okay.

[A]

You have takes on subway takes, don't you?

[B]

I have no takes on subway takes.

[A]

Okay, Understood. Okay.

[B]

Okay. My thank yous.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

First of all, I want to say thank you to turkey Bacon. Love her work.

[A]

I just ate four pieces of her yesterday. Say more, please.

[B]

I ate four pieces of her this morning.

[A]

Okay, tell me why you want to thank turkey Bacon.

[B]

Turkey bacon is. We figured it out. Do you understand? Like, regular bacon is good. I like regular bacon, especially thick cut, restaurant style. Don't play with me if the restaurant has thick cut bacon. I'm playing. I'm getting in there. Turkey bacon, light, easy filling, delicious. I just love turkey bacon. It's so special to me. It tastes amazing. It tastes almost as good as regular bacon and it doesn't make me feel bad. And it doesn't smell as bad when you cook it. It doesn't crackle so much and pop up on your forearm while you're touching the pan. I don't like that.

[A]

I know. It's the getting hurt when you're making bacon for me where I'm like, that'll deter me quick. Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't have my grandmother's arms.

[A]

You know how just grabbing hot things, bare hands.

[B]

They're, they're, they're taking fries out of the oil with their hands and then just tossing over here, rubbing it on

[A]

their moomoo grandma and going on with their day.

[B]

They've got their whole hands and arms are like, I don't know, like leathered from cooking.

[A]

Yeah. Cut from a different cloth. And that cloth is leather.

[B]

Just grabbing steaks on the pan like that.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy. No, we're doing turkey bacon. It's not popping. It's being respectful.

[B]

The regular bacon grease. One drop pops up and hits my neck. I'm on the ground. I'm crying, screaming, throwing up. So turkey bacon, I love you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I want to say thank you to Turkey Bacon. Second fat girl. Girls, I want to shout out fat girls. Fat girls, you mean the world to me. I love, especially in summertime when fat girls put on their teeny, tiny shirts.

[A]

Oh, I love seeing and the bellies

[B]

are out fat in a little shirt.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Every ounce of confidence that I have in my life is because of fat girls. Namely Monique. Monique, I want to shout you out more.

[A]

Legend.

[B]

Monique Baltimore legend. I love fat girls. I appreciate fat girls. Rosie o', Donnell, you used to be fat. Now you're talking about GLP1s a lot. Kind of on Maine. That's your journey, girl. That's Your journey, girl. But when you were fat, you meant everything to me. To me. When you were fat, you meant everything to me. And now I still have love for you.

[A]

You still have love, but she's not meaning everything to you.

[B]

Now, when fat people lose weight on Olympic, that is totally fine in their business. But when they lose weight on Ozempic and then start talking about how much they love Ozempic a lot, they love this one particular phrase where they're like, it really quieted the noise. I'm like, well, I'm falling asleep. I'm so bored.

[A]

You said, I want the noise.

[B]

Yeah, let's get some noise back in the room. Because what you're saying is boring the out of me.

[A]

Me. I'm asleep.

[B]

And I liked you when you were fat. So fat girls, I want to shout you out also. Gotta say thank you to sunsets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In particular the pink and orange ones. A pink and. Oh, I'm gonna cry. The pink and orange. I fucking love pink and orange sunsets. And if there's a little purple in it, oh, my God, I love. I'm pulling out my phone.

[A]

What does it mean for you?

[B]

It's so beautiful to look at. What else is there? And also, people a thousand years ago could watch pink and orange sunsets. And a thousand years from now, well, we won't be here. But if there were people that were gonna be here in a thousand years,

[A]

we're ruining the place. It's over.

[B]

It's so over, and it makes me sad.

[A]

So over for us. And we will not be so back.

[B]

I would say, like, either my kids or my kids kids are gonna be the last ones to look at a pink and orange sunset. It's just not looking good.

[A]

No.

[B]

But the time that we've had, it has been so beautiful. I hope you had the time of your life. Green day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I did. I did enjoy the pink and orange sunsets. I cry every third sunset that I see.

[A]

Oh, Caleb.

[B]

I cry almost every bike ride. And I cry every third sunset.

[A]

Your bike ride photos are iconic. Can I get a photo album of just your bike ride photos?

[B]

I love it up there.

[A]

For my birthday, for Christmas.

[B]

I love it up there.

[A]

I'm telling you, your bike ride photos make me want to ride a bike in New York City.

[B]

Get on it.

[A]

Granted, I have done that one time. Three summers ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That city bike is heavy as fuck. And people keep being like, you gotta get the right one. I don't know. I just went to the fucking thing and grabbed a bike. I grabbed A bike. Why does everyone know which bike to grab?

[B]

Yeah, well, the city bike community were very in the know.

[A]

You are though, because genuinely everyone keeps going. You got. You got the wrong one. It was. You got. You need to get an E bike or what you had was an E bike. I don't know. You're riding E bikes. Cause you look easy breezy, beautiful cover girl.

[B]

I ride E bikes most of the time. Time now sometimes you're doing the.

[A]

The heavy one.

[B]

Only when I have to that heavy.

[A]

How did. How did I go wrong? Like what am I do. What am I supposed to be looking for?

[B]

I feel that you probably want one of the gray E bikes. They are heavier than the blue bikes, but they're. They're pedal assisted. You're still going to have to pedal, especially since they turn the speeds down.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Turn the speeds down was ultimately good. Cuz not everyone's responsible with it like I am.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it has killed my joy a little bit on the bridge.

[A]

So then it was it so heavy because it's an E bike and I was using it wrong.

[B]

I feel that you had a malfunction is what I'm more.

[A]

Is what I'm hearing when I tell you. This ride to Park Slope is seared into my mind and my heart. I went to give my friend a gift and I thought, oh, I have a Citi Bike credit. I'm gonna. I'll ride a bike there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was fucking hell. Like 86 degrees. And I was like, that's okay. Because the breeze. I was in hell no.

[B]

You had a malfunction. You had a malfunctioning bike. I don't want you to write off the city bike based on the time that you had. I'd like to me and you go to a station together.

[A]

So you're saying some city bikes are good and I should not write off all city bikes because I'm bad? Most city bikes are good.

[B]

Most city bikes. Bikes are good.

[A]

And I just had an experience with one city bike and I should not

[B]

allow it to inform you got a bad apple that has spoiled the bunch for you, unfortunately. I'm gonna get you on a good city bike and I'm gonna take you on streets with the best bike lanes. That's the other thing. We're not biking on any old street.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

We're staying on the ones with really good lanes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We're getting on Willoughby in Brooklyn.

[A]

That's where we will be.

[B]

One way street. Quiet, a lot of it shut down to traffic. Bike lane. That's the kind of I like to

[A]

see ask that I like. Can we do this next week or something? Are you ready? Okay.

[B]

I'm moving next week and we can do it again. Yeah, I can'. Stop.

[A]

Is it cuz the mold?

[B]

I'm worried about the mold. Wait. Okay. I shouted out you.

[A]

You shouted out fat girls.

[B]

Fat girls.

[A]

You shouted out sunsets. You shouted out turkey bacon.

[B]

Oh, Andre 3000.

[A]

Andre three stacks.

[B]

Andre three stacks. Specifically for his verse on Party.

[A]

We like to party.

[B]

Hey, 3000 degrees. He is so. I love him.

[A]

He's amazing. I just went to an event. I wore an Andre 3000 shirt yesterday. If only I have worn it to the podcast today. He has a film, a silent film. Does he? And yes, yes, he has a silent film. I think it's called Seven Pianos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a sketch maybe is the name of the film. He has a silent film and you should watch it. And basically I went to a Q A with him last week at the drawing center.

[B]

Wow. How was it?

[A]

It was incredible. He's so cool. He said he's obsessed with angel ants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's kind of what like the inspiration sort of of the film was born of. He's obsessed with watching YouTubes about ants and thinks that humans can learn a lot from ants. And I'm like, facts.

[B]

He's one of our true great living artists. He's an artist to his bones. He. You can't peg. You can't put him in a box. He really is Andre 3000. I love his mind. I think he's so clear and connected to the source and I just love. I love him. He. And he's so unique and special. I really, really, really love. And I was thinking about on the way over here because I was listening to Party and I love that verse. But I love his verse on everything. I just love him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just love.

[A]

Incredible. How did you. When. When it was announced that he was dropping another album after it'd been X number of years. A long time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were you in anticipation and how did you feel once you heard it was the flute?

[B]

So the flute album was tough for me because. Not because it isn't beautiful, sure. But because of course I wanted Andre 3000. Like vote. Like I wanted. Like I wanted Andre 3000 and I got Andre 3000. But this is actually something I love about him, is he. He does what feels, I think, artistically fulfilling to him without regard for what's expected from him and I.

[A]

That's liberty.

[B]

That's liberty. And that's actually bravery. That's really deep bravery. And we're actually lacking that so severely and distinctly in the culture right now. The culture right now is, like, completely cowardly and manufactured and algorithmic and just like, like, I. A lot of the culture right now is boring losers. And so when you have someone who will make brave, interesting choices. Even if I'm not going to listen to the flute album every day, I really love and respect it.

[A]

You know what? That's a perfect answer. And it is PC. PC.

[B]

Politically correct.

[A]

Politically correct. But I, but I, I, I believe you. I mean, the, the but because you acknowledged flute album was tough for you, but he did what he wanted and that is admirable. That's huge.

[B]

And thank God. An artist doing what they want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thank God for an artist doing what they want. Thank God on another artist giving us whatever they can cash in on the most.

[A]

Yeah. I also. Something that's on my mind while we're on the topic of music is last summer, when we were shooting Little Brother, you asked the group. It was me, you, Sherry, Ben. Favorite song on Justin Bieber's what's the name of the Swag? Swag or Swag two.

[B]

Yeah, I think it had just come out.

[A]

Yes, it just come out and I said Zuma House.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just want to amend my answer because I hadn't listened to the whole album and I wasn't saying Zuma House because I was, like, trying to seem cool and like, I had listened to the whole album. Album. I sadly listen to albums in a very, like, piecemeal manner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where I'm like, I'm just taking little bites here and there, nibbles here and there, rarely all at once. Okay. So I hadn't given UConn a proper listen. And I've thought about this so much that I just need to tell you I'm amending my answer to UConn.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And what did you say at the time? Do you remember?

[B]

Well, it's funny because I believe at the time I probably would have said daisies.

[A]

You did say daisies. Yes.

[B]

And now I would amend mine as well to say, devotees, devotion, Devotion. Devotion has really, really, really come into play for me. And I can't. I Swag one and Swag two have gotten very jumbled up to me. I can't remember what's on what.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also I wanna write you a love song, baby. Do you know that one?

[A]

Come on, voice. Yes.

[B]

Come on. Love Song. I think it's called Love Song.

[A]

It might be.

[B]

And that one is, I'm almost certain On Swag two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that one has come big into play with me.

[A]

Do you like popping my.

[B]

I don't know that. That song.

[A]

It's. It's Justin Bieber. It's on Swag one or Swag two? I don't know which Swag is. It's on. Yes.

[B]

It has not.

[A]

It is on Swag one or Swag two. Like, I'm gonna just confirm which of the swag.

[B]

Go ahead and confirm it. And while you do, I'll just tell the listeners.

[A]

Tell them something.

[B]

I loved Swag for Justin. I thought it was a really great album for this point in his career. Those Drew Ski interludes pissed me the off.

[A]

Oh, did they?

[B]

Those Drew Ski interludes pissed me the.

[A]

Do you feel like it messed with. Why?

[B]

Why it messed with the album? I don't. I don't want to want clowns. Like, I don't want comedians in the mix of the record. I don't want to hear from. I. Drew Ski is very funny, and I'm a huge fan of Drew Skis. I do not want him or any other funny person doing little talk backs in between the songs.

[A]

I used to love them on old albums, like when. Like when I was in high school, like, there I. I think of. I think College Dropout had a bunch of skits and I think D Ray was doing them. I thought it was very funny. But I do think it suited that album. And I feel like since then, it's happened so frequently with albums where it's like, now there's a comedian doing a little. A bit in between. I hear you on this.

[B]

I want my interludes to be artistically driven. I want my interludes to be miseducation of Lauryn Hill. Amazing interludes.

[A]

I've heard so many people try to mimic that. There. There are albums I've heard where I'm like, they're trying to do the miseducation of Lauryn Hill. How do you define love moment? Hello, icon. Talk about it icon.

[B]

Let's be very clear that Lauryn Hill put out one solo album, and the and daughters that she has are innumerable.

[A]

Innumerable. More than the sand at the beach.

[B]

More than the grains of sand at the beach. Innumerable sons and daughters. And let's talk about another artistic approach to interludes. Frank Ocean, Blonde.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Now this is an artistic approach to interludes. Absolutely beautiful. Druski. Talking about whether or not Justin Bieber is a little bit black and should have some black and milds. I'm gonna skip it you know, I,

[A]

I, I must have skipped those interludes so hard. I'm not familiar with any of them. And if you I've list this album so much, I must be skipping mindlessly because I tell you, I'm like, don't know the interludes. Never really heard them. And by the way, popping my is swag too. Pink. Pink cover.

[B]

Pink cover.

[A]

It was like black cover. Pink cover.

[B]

Black cover. Pink cover. Yeah, Jusky interludes on swag. There was also one of of him, like, kind of comedically dissecting Justin's, like, viral standing on business moment. But I was like, this cheapens the work.

[A]

Like, yeah, this record is beautiful. It's stunning. But. And also, I've rewatched Justin's Yukon performance at the Grammy a thousand times. It's like bomb.

[B]

Is that where he was in his boxers?

[A]

Yes. And it's that. That's not why I'm, that's not why I'm watching. Justin is a child to me.

[B]

Yeah, He's a grown man.

[A]

He is a grown man, which is what he was trying to tell paparazzi. So maybe I do need to listen to the Drew Ski skit so I could hear that dissection because I'm like,

[B]

oh, paparazzi are scum. They all go to hell.

[A]

You think so?

[B]

Paparazzi and ICE agents, all hell immediately.

[A]

Anyone else you think goes to hell? Off, off, rip.

[B]

All ICE agents, all paparazzi, all people who park in the bike lane. Who else goes to hell? Off, R. Rip.

[A]

This is if Caleb was God. Go.

[B]

We better all be grateful. We better all be grateful that I'm not. You want to talk about jealous and vengeful? You haven't seen it yet? No, I think those are a few groups of people who all go to hell.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't believe in hell.

[A]

Speaking of. You don't, do you believe in heaven?

[B]

I've been experimenting with the idea recently that everybody goes to heaven.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And it's been really nice for me.

[A]

I'm not mad at it. What do you think of the notion that. No, that's, that's a crazy question. Heaven is on earth.

[B]

The notion that we. Our jobs are to create heaven on earth or that heaven is a place on earth.

[A]

Another song. Heaven. Heaven is a place on earth.

[B]

I find it challenging because life on earth is hell for so many undeserving people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't. I. So I find that really tough. And I find my own love for life sometimes to be complicated because. Because life is so bad for so many People who don't deserve it. So I find that really tough. And I think that's why the idea of, like, a afterlife reward for goodness is so appealing to a lot of people, because their lot in life is so unfair. And my lot in life is also unfair, but in a positive way. It's not fair that I have the life that I do, but I am obviously quite pleased with it. I think that what I've been experimenting with recently in my mind is that maybe everyone goes to heaven. And maybe when you get to heaven, you come to a perfect understanding of what happened on earth during your time there. And that if you were bad to people, if you did bad things, if you mistreated people, if you were callous, you know, evil, that you are miserable in heaven because you have to live with the weight of what you did while you were on Earth. And that it actually is a perfect place and you're being there makes you very guilty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that in that way, it would function as hell for you. You. But it's not burning in a lake of fire for eternity. That instead, it's like you're in a. You're in a good place and the universe is. Is beautiful and. And just. But, yeah, you feel very, very, very bad the whole time you're there because of the way you behaved.

[A]

I'm not mad at that. Low key. If God. Caleb, was God for real, you know, I'm not mad at that. That's. Yeah.

[B]

I would love to talk with God. If God. God, if you can hear me, if you want to reach out, we could set something.

[A]

God just might. God just might. God listens to the podcast.

[B]

If God listens to any podcast, I know that it's yours. I know that.

[A]

Imagine.

[B]

I'm certain of that.

[A]

Imagine God's listening to. Thanks, dad.

[B]

God's like. God's like, on the couch with, like,

[A]

a fuzzy blanket being like, I got tickled. Tickled. Okay. You said, speaking of jealous and vengeful, which made me think about what you might be like in relationships. What would you say your flaw in relationships is? And as your friend, I feel like I know what you might say, but what would you say?

[B]

Yeah, you've. You've got a pretty front seat to my romance, my romantic life. What do I think my flaw is in relationships? Hmm. I like a very separate life. I think I'm bad at giving up things I want to do for my partner. I don't want to not see my friends to go see your friends type of thing. And I do. I. It's something I've really worked on. I don't think that's a positive quality, but that's a thing I struggle with. What would, what did you. You think I was gonna say?

[A]

I thought you might. No, no. I thought you might say, like, it's not unlike what you said, but career. Prioritizing career, maybe over the relationship. I don't think that that's because I relate to the way you engage with your career and your passion for it and for showing up to do things when you want to do them. But I know that it can be hard in a relationship to be like, to negotiate like, okay, how much of this am I sacrificing? How much of my time am I devoting to partnership? How much am I going to devote to career?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. My job is going to be at the center of the thing. I don't oftentimes control. I can't cancel a tour because you want me to. I can't change the shoot of a movie because you'd like me to be somewhere. So my job, whether either of us likes it, is going to be at the center of the thing. That's just how it is, at least for now. And a lot of our. A lot of. Yeah, a lot of my life is just directed by Job. What do you think your. What is your big fall in relationships?

[A]

I think I struggle to be in partnership because I was raised by a single mom who just got it done. So I'm like, I think I have a hard time being like, I don't have a up close and personal model. Like lots of people in my life, aunts and uncles, married, my grandparents. But I don't have this like up close and personal day to day model of what it looks like. So. And then some of the relationships I do see people I love, like, not even elders in my family. I'm like, well, that seems like a mess. And that seems like that person's sacrificing more than is appropriate. And I don't ever want to be that. So it's for me, the negotiation of like, how to integrate someone properly into your exist very full life and world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My ex and I talked about this a lot. And it's a understanding that I was really glad that we had because it felt like a really beautiful connection and a great that I was like, I actually don't need you and I don't want to need you. I actually think it's not romantic to need your partner when people are like, I don't know what I would do without you. I do know what I would do without you. I would have a big, beautiful, full life. I did before you, and I would. After this, I just. I want you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I actually want you. And I think that's so beautiful. I think that's way cooler than needing you. I actually think needing you is this, like. I don't know. It's just. I think so many of the people in my life growing up that needed their partner. It was like a financial need or like an emotional deficiency that without you, I would, like, fall apart. I will not fall apart without you. I would be very sad. But I want you. And I think that's so much more romantic than needing you. Yeah, but a lot of people don't feel the same way.

[A]

I think that is romantic. I think that's incredibly romantic. That feels. Imagine someone being like me. Being with you is a choice and not a function of any deficiency I feel I have in my life or desperation or insecurity. It's like, I'm happy to be here. Are you anxiously, which I don't think it is avoidant or secure, securely attached.

[B]

I don't know those things. Anxiously. Avoidant is when you push away anxiously.

[A]

Yeah. Anxious attachment is like, I need answers. I want to be close to you. If I sense you pulling away from me, I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out, and I need us to be close. Securely attached is sort of what you described. The. Like, I want to want you and. And like, you understand your partner is their own person. You understand you are your own person responsible for yourself. And avoidant is a little like, when intimacy is happening and budding, you tend to get a little like, I need to step away.

[B]

Anxious, secure and avoidant are the options.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Do you want to call my ex really quick and see what he says?

[A]

Yes, let's call your ex. Is this who I think it is?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

See what he says. He might not answer. He has a job.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

One of the coolest things about him.

[A]

I thought you were pulling out your phone to be like, ah, we're deep,

[B]

dude.

[A]

I hope he answers.

[B]

I know. This is sick.

[A]

He might get a call back, so leave it on the table.

[B]

He'll call me back at like, oh,

[A]

my goodness, I called.

[B]

Has been forwarded to voicemail. Coward. Let me text him. Let me text him. I just had dinner with him once last night. Dude, I'm on a podcast and I need to know if you think I'm anxious, secure or avoidant or avoidant. Let's see what he texts back. Okay, that's really funny. I don't know which one I am. I, I. It would be really nice to be secure.

[A]

It's. It would be so nice. That'd be great.

[B]

That sounds completely go.

[A]

That's a very healthy person you been. Right.

[B]

I'm trying to think.

[A]

I don't know if you were honest.

[B]

Michelle, what do you think? Michelle, come on. You've been prepared for these things. I keep asking Michelle to answer questions about me.

[A]

Yeah. Michelle, what do we think?

[B]

What do you think I would say

[A]

if like if it was a spectrum of secure or what's the last one? It's secure, anxious, avoidant. It's definitely between secure and avoidant.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

That's nice because that means okay, secure leaning. So between secure and avoidant leaning secure.

[B]

I do feel that way. This guy text me back, this is sick. I mean why even stay you guys.

[A]

Why stay friends with your exes if

[B]

they're not gonna ask about But I

[A]

do want to know your take on that. Why stay friends with your ex?

[B]

Oh, I love him so much. He's one of my favorite people. We just didn't work out romantically.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think he's an incredible human being. I, I want to be his friend forever. I just. Yeah. Relationship wise. Something wasn't clicking. I, I'm friends with pretty much everyone I've ever dated.

[A]

Do you ever hope, especially in the case of like one of the coolest people you've ever met who you're you you just think is amazing you want in your life forever. Is any of part of you hope that maybe we could get together again one day?

[B]

I think there's a total. Yeah, I think there's a total world for that. I think like love. I just think like love is such a beautiful special connection and it can manifest in many different ways. Yeah. Someone I dated in the past like totally might end up being my person eventually.

[A]

Okay. I think Caleb is secure. I think Caleb is secure.

[B]

I would love to be secure. I would love to be.

[A]

It's giving secure. But I think Michelle answered perfectly because I do know more. So I'm going secure lead. I'm going avoidant. Leading secure. But like really leaning secure.

[B]

What are you?

[A]

I can be all things through Christ who gives me strength.

[B]

I've seen you be many. That's why I'm like kind of and

[A]

I've seen me be many. And when you ask my friends I think each friend would be like a different thing. I remember showing a friend I was in this awful relationship relationship. And showing one of my close friends a chart where I was like, oh, I think this, like, explains the issue we're having from this Instagram therapist, but who's actually a therapist. And I was like, this describes the issue we're having perfectly. My friend immediately was like, oh, you're the avoidant one. I see. And it was like, no, actually, in this context, I'm the anxious one. And this demon I'm with is the avoidance. I don't speak as eloquently and graciously about my exes. Well, some of them are not just, I dated a demon. And if you dated a demon, you don't have to be like, I'm not going to say anything bad about my ex, because sometimes your ex is bad.

[B]

Sometimes your ex is bad. I don't. There's no. I. I don't see. I don't. Being friends with your ex, to me, is not, like, a virtue. If I meet someone and they're not friends with their exes, I'm like, I'm sure you had a reason. Like, there's no judgment.

[A]

By the way, there have been people I've dated who I'm like, oh, it didn't work out. I think they were a nice person and also a good person, but I'm not their person and they're not mine. Yeah, but I dated a demon, so I just.

[B]

Way different with men and women. Yeah, men and women, like, by and large, don't like each other much is the reality. Like, men. Men really mostly want the respect and company of other men and don't really enjoy or respect or love women that much. And so, yeah, a lot of my girlfriends are not friends with their exes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With lesbians and gay men, it's different because it's like, well, we have a lot of the same stuff going on.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you. And also, I've just had people be like, I'm not gonna say anything bad about my ex. And some of them are the. Also the worst people I've ever met. Because they know. They know. They know. To say they know. That's a good textbook answer. Are you upset he hasn't texted back?

[B]

No, he's at work. But I am like, I do want to know what he thinks now, I think, and I want to give it to you.

[A]

We're gonna tell the audience later because I'm gonna get a substack eventually one day.

[B]

Are you?

[A]

Maybe. I keep teasing the substack that doesn't exist. This is like the 20th episode where I've said, we'll put it on the substack.

[B]

Just get a substack. I, I will be honest. I my Substack subscribers, I feel bad because I, I, I really started with this big head of steam that I was like, I'm going to write something every week, like a little roundup. And I was doing it for a while. Like I was writing like, what's going on with me? What am I reading and listening to shout outs to Friends of the Pod and like, what shows do they have coming up? Or like, how can you support them? It just got so overwhelming because last year was crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I really have reduced my substack offerings by a lot because I was burnt out to a degree that I could not sustain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Luckily they're also lovely and I offered refunds and stuff, of course. But like, honestly, just doing a little something on there is nice.

[A]

I have a substack that I read other people's things via, but I would like to, I would love to do a substack. So maybe we first, first entry will be about what your ex says concerning your attachment style.

[B]

Dude, let's let them know. I there are some people on substack. I got on substack because Samantha Irby and Hayley Williams were doing really cool stuff on there. And I was like. And then I think Z way and I actually had a conversation too where she was maybe starting sub stack before me or right around the same time. I love Substack.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I do too. I really enjoy it in that little corner of the Internet. We have to play a game now.

[B]

I would love to play a game with you anytime.

[A]

Okay. We're gonna ride bikes off the podcast.

[B]

Easy.

[A]

And then we're gonna play a game. And I don't know what that breath I just did with. It's four hours of sleep. Impressive.

[B]

You got four hours of sleep. And also we've been talking for a long time.

[A]

Well, I had to get four hours of sleep because I took out my micro braids last time. I told you. Right. Okay, see, now I'm repeating myself.

[B]

It's giving off camera. I think you told me that.

[A]

Giving. Get some. It's giving. Get some rest. Okay. We're playing a game. It's called thanks. No thanks. Okay, here's the prompt. Would you be saying thanks or no thanks if you received one of each of the following gifts?

[B]

Okay, let me lock in a lock

[A]

in the latest trendy self help book.

[B]

No thanks. Don't piss me off. That would piss Me off. Don't piss me off. That would piss me off really quick. You're gonna give me a self help book. I will smack the out of you. That's crazy.

[A]

More than a no thanks is a slap as well.

[B]

No thanks.

[A]

Okay. All expense paid vacation to something called the Orb.

[B]

No thanks. I don't want to go to something like that. You're not paying to send me somewhere. I'm not going to be on your dime. I don't want to be beholden to your thing. I feel like if you paid me to go somewhere, then it's like. By the way, we have like a 9am photo shoot.

[A]

It's. There's always a little caveat. There's a little catch. Always a cat.

[B]

Nothing in this world is free.

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

I'd rather pay.

[A]

I'd rather pay as well.

[B]

Yeah, Let me pay.

[A]

Pay.

[B]

And the Orb. I don't want to go anywhere with like a cryptic haunting name where I think only rich people.

[A]

Have you been to the Sphere? Is that Vegas? That's Vegas.

[B]

That's Vegas.

[A]

Have you been?

[B]

I'm not going.

[A]

Okay, me either.

[B]

I'm not going.

[A]

All right. If you see me at the Sphere, just know someone paid me to be there.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

All right. Goes for Las Vegas as well.

[B]

At this junction city. The whole city, Franco. The state.

[A]

Fucking. Okay. A bumper sticker that says, keep honking, I'll come. C U m. Thanks.

[B]

Thanks. I think that's nice. I like a little. A little humor in the.

[A]

Do you have bumper stickers on your car at Kansas City?

[B]

No. When I was in college, I had a Bernie bumper sticker on my car and I went to college in Southern Missouri. And it kept getting scratched off and I kept replacing it and I had like a battle with whoever kept scratching it off my car. That was fun. But since then, no bumper stickers.

[A]

And then that was fun.

[B]

I got burned. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. A gorgeous oil painting of your. Yourself.

[B]

Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'll put it over my mantle. I think that's deeply funny. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

Wait, and lastly, more time.

[B]

More time?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If someone gave me more time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I love more time.

[A]

What would you do with it?

[B]

Anything, dude. You mean, are we talking about what time? Like, being alive?

[A]

More. More time. However you intend.

[B]

Dude, I'm obsessed with being alive. I love it. I never want to leave. I can't believe it's going to end. That's so crazy to me. More time anywhere. If I'm having a good time, time. If I'm having a bad time. No, thanks.

[A]

You're obsessed with being alive to scare. Does aging scare you at all?

[B]

No, not. No. I love. Every year I get older, I feel more myself. And of course, by the way, I'm 31, so that's a very, like, presumptuous and funny thing to say. Aging, I know, gets scary. I know our bodies change on us, but I. I don't desire to be young. I don't think young people are compelling.

[A]

Yeah, you don't. Like, we kind of established that earlier.

[B]

I'm not compelled by 20. When people are like, oh, I wish I was 20. I'm like, are you fucking insane?

[A]

Yeah, I can wait to get Adam.

[B]

My 20s, my 20s were fine, but I don't desire to be young.

[A]

Yeah, nothing even bad happened. I just was like, I want to be grown.

[B]

I was broken, anxious, and worried that things weren't going to work out.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I wasn't.

[B]

I wasn't a great friend and I wasn't good at dating, so, no, I'm not interested.

[A]

You're better at dating now, though, aren't you?

[B]

I'm better at everything now. Life is very, very fun when you've been around for a while. Eating ass until I get sick.

[A]

Okay, last segment, Caleb, is. Thank U. Next it's. I have a question from our previous guest for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes. Chris Maloney, who's also in Little brother Chris. We didn't plan it this way.

[B]

Can I just say, I love that guy? Yeah, I love that guy.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

He is a real sweetheart.

[A]

I love him.

[B]

And very funny.

[A]

Very, very funny. And you wouldn't know because I think some people are intimidated by him and scared, but I'm like, that guy's very warm and funny.

[B]

He's devilish. Yeah, there's something devilish about him. You'll be talking to him and he'll just look at you like, yes, yes. There's just something about his. Yes, yes. Many times I love Chris Millen. You know something funny, I'll tell this and then maybe we'll ask Chris if he minds that I said it. Yeah, Chris, after, like, maybe a week of working on a little brother together,

[A]

he might have told this on the podcast. Go ahead.

[B]

Did he? Was it about his, like, niece or whatever?

[A]

So, yeah, you're not just funny funny. You're gay.

[B]

You're not just gay, funny, funny.

[A]

You're funny funny.

[B]

Well, that part was. But also just that he. Chris sent me this video of him in a car, like, on one of our days off from filming. And he was like, caleb, I knew I was lucky to be working with you, but I guess I didn't realize how lucky. My, my nieces are obsessed with you. And then he turns the camera and it's like some of the most lesbian people you've ever seen in your life. And I was like, well, yeah, I was like, yeah, brother. And I was so. It warmed my heart so much. I was like, I love those girls. Yeah, I love those girls. That's very fun. I love Chris.

[A]

Chris is the best. Chris Maloney wants to know who will be the 2028 presidential nominees.

[B]

The 2028 presidential nominees will be either J.D. vance or Marco Rubio. On that side of things. That's the side, that side of things, I'm imagining. I'm imagining Marco Rubio would be the smarter choice for them because he has enough plausible deniability about this administration's downfalls. He could kind of separate himself from the evil.

[A]

Don't give them ideas, though.

[B]

It's not going to work, though, because he has the charisma of a saltine cracker. Rubio wouldn't. Would you like to listen to him talk ever at all? He, Ted Cruz has more charisma and that guy's the most boring person I've ever seen. So that's not going to work. It'll probably be J.D. vance. One of the Trump kids will try for sure and they will get like laughably destroyed because they don't have what dad has. None of them are funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And on the left side of things, AOC is going to make a really compelling run. It's not going to happen. I don't think Gavin Newsom's going to try. That's going to be one of the most boring things we've ever watched play out. Gavin, if you're listening, please just don't do it like we're just not interested. It's not you, brother. You've got a great haircut and your policies suck. Caleb, who do I think is going to do it? Do it? I really think for the left side of things, I think that Mamdani style there will be a compelling populist, left leaning person who will come sort of out of nowhere. And I think we might not even know that their name. Somebody who's going to make a really compelling run, I think is Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky. He's really interesting to me. He's. I think we might want boring next. And he is boring, but in a, in a nice way.

[A]

Like after you date an insane person. You're like, give me the boring. Let's find the guy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Let's find an accountant. We dated like. Like somebody who puts you through the mattress and is like a sociopath. Let's date like an accountant who doesn't know how to fuck. You know, like, that's nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what the country has been through.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens.

[A]

And last, it was a two part question. Will Celine Dion be part of the government

[B]

in the way that she's a part of everything that we do, but not. Not in any official capacity?

[A]

And what's a question you'd like to ask our next guest?

[B]

I want to ask your next guest, what's something you were wrong about recently?

[A]

Ooh, I like that one.

[B]

I really am interested in that. I think being wrong is so exciting.

[A]

Yeah, I, you know, I like apologizing. I like the discomfort for me around it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I get excited to. To be like, because I think it requires bravery to apologize and courage to apologize. Because our instinct is always to defend our stance as people and defend our actions. I think that's our instinct. But I'm like, to go, I'm gonna get uncomfortable here and do the thing that my mom like, I'll be like, I'll be kind of annoying to my mom at times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We went on a road trip to Hilton Head years ago. Years ago. And I was like, where's the closest gas station? And this woman took me. So. Damn. I said, mom, this cannot be the closest gas station to your home. We need to get on the road to South Carolina. And then I was like, that was unnecessary. How annoyed I got by that. And so then the beginning of the car ride, I was just like, I need to apologize. But I'm like, my mom also isn't gonna expect me to or need me to. She is being quiet right now.

[B]

She's taking a break from the conversation because of how I treated her sister

[A]

was also there, but I was taking a break, and that's okay. But I was like, no, you owe her an apology. You owe her an apology. So you need to apologize. You need to apologize. And I was like, I'm literally driving. And I'm like, but she's also gonna just kind of like, okay, yeah, it's not gonna be a big moment. And you. You won't know how she accepted the apology or not, because that's just not her vibe of communication. But I was like, but you owe her an apology. So you don't need someone to need ask you for an apology or initiate a conversation about how they'd like one in any way.

[B]

I'm loving the idea of you in the driver's seat silently going through this whole. But you owe her an apology.

[A]

You want to be the kind of person who apologizes.

[B]

And were you her? Were you in her shoes? You would want the apology regardless of how you apologize. Yeah.

[A]

So what? She took you to a far ass gas station. But I like this question for our next guest.

[B]

Being wrong is a thrill. Yeah, being wrong is a complete thrill. And being able to admit you were wrong, realizing you were wrong, apologizing for being wrong and getting to that place where you get like a new level of intimacy with even a stranger. Like, I've had interactions with strangers where I'm like, God damn it, I was wrong. And then you apologize. You know, it's so. I love being wrong. I think it's a thrill.

[A]

Yeah, it's fun.

[B]

And we don't have to demonize it and be so scared of it. We have a real cultural problem around being wrong.

[A]

The instinct is like, no, I was right. And I stand by what I did and I stand by what I said. And I'm like, what if you apologize? What if what you said was not right because you are but a human.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you were wrong. Which is okay.

[B]

We've all been wrong. So what if it was actually a beautiful way to connect?

[A]

I'm gonna be wrong some more. More.

[B]

I will be wrong.

[A]

You want to live forever and you about to be wrong a lot.

[B]

Yeah, same. Live a long life. You're going to be wrong a lot.

[A]

There it is. And guys, I'm not going to say anything else except for that was Caleb Heron. I loved my time with you. Thank you for doing this. I love you. And we really do need to write by.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

ThinkStadt is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and I Heart podcast. I'm your host, AO Wodom. Our producer is Kevin Bartelt, and. And our executive producer is Matt Apodaca. This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human.