Langston Kerman

Summary

Podcast Summary: Thanks Dad with Ego Nwodim Featuring Langston Kerman

Introduction

In the heartfelt and humorous episode of "Thanks Dad" hosted by Ego Nwodim, comedian and actor Langston Kerman joins as the guest. The podcast, produced by Headgum, revolves around Ego inviting father figures to be her "Dad for the Day," fostering conversations about their experiences with their own fathers and their roles as parents. This episode delves deep into Langston's upbringing, his relationships with his biological father and stepfathers, and his evolving approach to parenting.

Unveiling Early Relationships

The episode opens with Ego candidly discussing her background, highlighting that she was raised by a single mother and has no relationship with her deceased father. This revelation draws an emotional response from Langston:

Langston Kerman [00:26]: "Well, it's just a devastating way for me to find out."

Ego probes into Langston's feelings about discovering her father's death, leading to a poignant exchange about communication and emotional expression. Their conversation takes a lighthearted turn as they joke about grammar, easing the initial tension.

Humor Amidst Seriousness

Ego and Langston engage in playful banter early on, discussing grammar mistakes and skincare routines. This blend of humor and sincerity sets the tone for their interaction, making the complex emotions surrounding fatherhood more approachable.

Ego Nwodim [03:05]: "Do you have a skincare regimen?"

Langston Kerman [03:12]: "I wash it and then I put lotion on it."

Their humorous exchange about skincare serves as a segue into deeper discussions about personal care and self-awareness.

Navigating Stepparent Dynamics

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Langston's experiences with multiple stepfathers. He shares the challenges of having three stepdads, none of whom fully embraced the fatherly role:

Langston Kerman [07:08]: "I had a stepdad that I think I would have described as my favorite when I was younger because he was like the longest lasting."

Langston humorously recounts his stepfather Benny the Bull's tumultuous history, adding levity to what could be a sensitive topic:

Langston Kerman [07:36]: "He was my stepdad years after he had been fired as Benny the Bull because he got caught selling drugs after a game."

Despite the challenges, Langston reflects on his mother's ability to love passionately, even when it meant bringing transient figures into their lives. This insight provides a deeper understanding of the complexities in blended families.

Introducing Langston Kerman

Ego formally introduces Langston, highlighting his accomplishments as an actor, writer, and comedian known for roles in "Insecure," "High Maintenance," and "The Boys." She mentions his latest Netflix special, "Bad Poetry," setting the stage for an engaging and insightful discussion.

Parenting Styles and Discipline

The conversation shifts to Langston's relationship with his biological father, a disciplined and academically-focused presence in his life. Langston credits his father with instilling a strong work ethic and academic prowess, which significantly benefited his educational journey.

Langston Kerman [35:18]: "I think a lot of my ability to sort of maneuver through school I can largely attribute to like my dad and him helping me figure out how to like solve equations and write essays."

Ego contrasts this with her own experience, having been raised without a father figure, highlighting the different dynamics and expectations in their respective upbringings.

Sibling Relationships and Role Expectations

Langston discusses the challenges of being the eldest sibling, often taking on responsibilities beyond his years due to his age gap with his younger siblings. This role sometimes blurred the lines between brotherhood and mentorship, leading to a complex dynamic.

Langston Kerman [20:05]: "I think in this case, you could be old enough to be my dad."

He reflects on the tension that arises when older siblings assume disciplinarian roles, emphasizing the difficulty in maintaining playful relationships amidst these expectations.

The Power of Apology in Parenting

A significant theme emerges as Langston and Ego explore the importance of apologizing in parent-child relationships. Langston shares his journey towards becoming a more empathetic and communicative parent, aiming to fill the emotional gaps he perceived in his own upbringing.

Langston Kerman [45:18]: "I am the type of parent that apologizes, which isn't always easy, but... I want to be able to see Sort of these missing holes in my own upbringing and fill them rather than sort of like carrying them forward."

Ego emphasizes the transformative power of apologies, highlighting how it fosters forgiveness and strengthens familial bonds.

Balancing Discipline and Playfulness

Langston candidly discusses the challenges of disciplining his young daughter while maintaining a playful relationship. He shares anecdotes about navigating toddler meltdowns, underscoring the delicate balance parents must strike between authority and affection.

Langston Kerman [54:06]: "I can still apologize for that. Even though you're a psychopath path who has no business asking for this hat."

This humorous yet honest portrayal underscores the complexities of parenting young children and the constant learning curve involved.

Advice on Modern Dating

As the episode approaches its conclusion, Ego steers the conversation towards dating advice, reflecting the podcast's overarching theme. Langston offers pragmatic insights on handling dating scenarios, emphasizing honesty and self-respect.

Langston Kerman [64:12]: "I think, number one, you do not owe them any response. And I think frankly, ghosting is a lot healthier than we give it credit for."

His perspective encourages listeners to prioritize personal well-being over societal expectations, advocating for authenticity in romantic interactions.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Langston promoting his own podcast, showcasing the mutual support and camaraderie between Ego and his guest. This exchange highlights the collaborative spirit of "Thanks Dad," fostering meaningful dialogues about fatherhood, personal growth, and the evolving dynamics of modern parenting.

Notable Quotes:

• Langston Kerman [00:26]: "Well, it's just a devastating way for me to find out."
• Langston Kerman [07:36]: "He was my stepdad years after he had been fired as Benny the Bull because he got caught selling drugs after a game."
• Langston Kerman [35:18]: "I think a lot of my ability to sort of maneuver through school I can largely attribute to like my dad and him helping me figure out how to like solve equations and write essays."
• Langston Kerman [45:18]: "I am the type of parent that apologizes, which isn't always easy, but... I want to be able to see Sort of these missing holes in my own upbringing and fill them rather than sort of like carrying them forward."
• Langston Kerman [54:06]: "I can still apologize for that. Even though you're a psychopath path who has no business asking for this hat."
• Langston Kerman [64:12]: "I think, number one, you do not owe them any response. And I think frankly, ghosting is a lot healthier than we give it credit for."

Final Thoughts

This episode of "Thanks Dad" masterfully intertwines humor with profound reflections on fatherhood, parenting, and personal development. Langston Kerman's candidness offers listeners a relatable and insightful exploration of navigating familial relationships and the responsibilities of modern parenting. Ego Nwodim's empathetic hosting ensures a balanced and engaging conversation, making the episode both entertaining and thought-provoking.

Transcript

[Eggo Wodom]

This is a headgum podcast. Hi, I'm Eggo Wodom, and welcome to. Thanks, Dad. I was raised by a single mom and don't have a relationship with my dad. I don't think we're ever gonna have a relationship because he's actually dead. Langston, you laugh.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, it's just a devastating way for me to find out.

[Eggo Wodom]

How do you think I fel.

[Langston Kerman]

I just wish you would have told me differently. I guess is how I would have.

[Eggo Wodom]

Been the better way to tell you.

[Langston Kerman]

Maybe not in a single sentence. You know what I mean? A run on. I daresay it was a run on.

[Eggo Wodom]

It was a run on. Okay, not me getting chastised for my grammar over here. It was a run on sentence. That's probably the main reason you're mad. Yes, that's it.

[Langston Kerman]

You know, I'm a grammar stickler.

[Eggo Wodom]

You know, stickler for grammar.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay, I'm a stickler for grammar. I'm a stickler for dead dads. That's always been me.

[Eggo Wodom]

Now, are you a fan of dead dads the way you're a fan of good grammar?

[Langston Kerman]

No. I'd say I'm. I'm grateful. I'm grateful that my dad is not dead. And.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, rub it in. Rub it in.

[Langston Kerman]

And I. If I get the hold of those dragon balls, I'm bringing your dad back. We're gonna bring him back. We're gonna fix that relationship.

[Eggo Wodom]

No, no, it's okay. I feel like we don't even have to. We don't need to. Don't do that. Please. Do something else with those dragon balls. Give me a million dollars or something. Eggo.

[Langston Kerman]

I hear you crying out.

[Eggo Wodom]

No, Langston, please, I'm begging you.

[Langston Kerman]

Throw a sentence together. We're going to bring your dad back.

[Eggo Wodom]

Langston, you're not listening. It's not. I feel like this is a sketch, and I'm going to write this down. And a person who has these capabilities to bring someone from the dead, and I'm like, no, not this person.

[Langston Kerman]

Not. Come on, please.

[Eggo Wodom]

And you're not hearing me. I won't give you writing credit on it because then they would have to pay you.

[Langston Kerman]

That's okay. You would hate for me to get paid.

[Eggo Wodom]

You don't need the money. I'm looking at your home. You know, the chairs are beautiful. What Seafoam color back there.

[Langston Kerman]

That's a nice blue.

[Eggo Wodom]

It's a gorgeous table.

[Langston Kerman]

And we know how SNL is pinching pennies this year. We know they're struggling to piece it together. So, yeah, you Keep that money.

[Eggo Wodom]

Just, Just, Just trying to make it to 50, man. Okay. On this podcast, I'm sitting down with father figures who are old enough to be my dad or are just dads themselves. I think in this case, you' could be old enough to be my dad. There is a version of you being old enough to be my dad, only you look like one of those people who is never going to age past whatever's happening right now.

[Langston Kerman]

I, I hope that's true.

[Eggo Wodom]

Have you looked like this for a long time?

[Langston Kerman]

I think so. I, I, I. As soon as I learned to grow facial hair, as soon as my body sort of made that capable, I, I locked in. And. Yeah, it's kind of been this look since I was, like, 25, so.

[Eggo Wodom]

Nice.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

Nice. Okay. And now I'm inclined to ask you, do you have a skincare regimen?

[Langston Kerman]

I wash it and then I, I put lotion on it. And.

[Eggo Wodom]

Your face, it being your face. Okay. Never hurt someone.

[Langston Kerman]

Those are my, those are sort of my key regimen steps.

[Eggo Wodom]

And so if you did a YouTube video, be about five seconds long with the. Okay, I wash it up. Okay. Do you put sunscreen on?

[Langston Kerman]

I do now. I didn't, I didn't as a young person. And I, I think some of that was like, I'm a black man. I can handle this. And the son was like, brother, wait.

[Eggo Wodom]

Did you get sunburned or you just felt your face cracking?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I think I get, I can get sunburn, and I get it more on, like, the back of my neck. But then once you get it, you're like, no, I'm, I'm covering all this because that okay hurts. I don't want to go back.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay. I kind of love how you were so certain you could beat the sun because you're a black man and I'm.

[Langston Kerman]

Barely a black man, which is part of the problem.

[Eggo Wodom]

Are you, Are you barely black?

[Langston Kerman]

No, I'm, I'm half, I guess, is the technical breakdown. But. But the sun don't care. You know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

The sun care. Doesn't care. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Our weird sort of cultural, racial lines mean nothing to that big orb in the sky.

[Eggo Wodom]

So I think that's a fact. I got sunburned when I was, like, 14 and went to Orlando to see my sister who worked at Dis World. Is there. Florida, I believe. Okay. So I got sunburned because I spent all day in the pool and no sunscreen because I was like, I'm black, and I'm more than 50%.

[Langston Kerman]

Congratulations, by the way.

[Eggo Wodom]

Thank you so much. I mean, you came at me about the dead dad thing. I said I had to get one off on you, but then I got sunburn on my face. It's almost like I'm stuttering to say it, because I can't believe it happened, but I got. My face was sunburned from being in the pool, and just Florida, hot sun, so it's possible, guys.

[Langston Kerman]

And you. You have since changed your tune. Are you. Are you sunscreening?

[Eggo Wodom]

I'm sunscreening every single day of my life. Even if it's gloomy outside. You got to do it every day, Langston. That's how we preserve. I'm telling you, people, you got to have a skincare regimen, and you need to wear sunscreen. Everyone needs to wear sunscreen every day. It doesn't matter where you live, what the weather is. Wear sunscreen. That's the psa. Yeah. And so you're doing it randomly here and there.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm doing it here or there.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

If it makes you feel better, I'm also doing it here or there with my children. I'm not.

[Eggo Wodom]

Oh, my God.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm not screening them up every day either, so.

[Eggo Wodom]

Does not make me feel better. That's not good. Okay, now I have to intro you, because I do everything asked backwards over here. Oh, wait. The rest of the intro is that I'll get to ask questions I've always wanted to ask a dad. How do I know if the guy I'm dating is right for me or what should I look out for when buying a car? Can you. You go, I don't. That's a good one.

[Langston Kerman]

I hope a man answers that eventually. I don't.

[Eggo Wodom]

It's not gonna be me. Or. Do you know how to change the oil in that car? And if so, could you help me change the oil in my car? Do you know how to change oil?

[Langston Kerman]

I don't know how to change oil. I know how to change a tire, okay? But that's. That's the extent of my car knowledge.

[Eggo Wodom]

Who taught you how to change a tire, by the way?

[Langston Kerman]

My father, of course. But I. I had multiple stepdads throughout my life. I've now had. How many have I had? Three.

[Eggo Wodom]

For your mom. Go off Queen.

[Langston Kerman]

Three stepdads. And there were some men in between who also hung out.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, all right.

[Langston Kerman]

No, they didn't step up. Let's be careful.

[Eggo Wodom]

They didn't step up. They didn't step up. They were just hanging out. Let's be very, very clear. Okay? They were just I was just coming.

[Langston Kerman]

Home and there was a man with his shirt off on my couch. You know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

No heads up. No heads up. Not a text.

[Langston Kerman]

Not often a roommate text.

[Eggo Wodom]

Like, hey, just, by the way, not a sock on the door outside of that.

[Langston Kerman]

The apartment, FYI, that's. That's going to be James's milk in the fridge. So you gonna. You have to leave that one alone.

[Eggo Wodom]

Wait, do you have a favorite stepdad?

[Langston Kerman]

A favorite stepdad? I had a stepdad that I think I would have described as my favorite when I was younger because he was like the longest lasting. Okay. And then I've told a. A joke about this pretty recently, but the. The. My second stepdad was Benny the Bull. He. He was the. Yeah. The master for the Chicago Bulls.

[Eggo Wodom]

This is for real serious. But he.

[Langston Kerman]

But he was my stepdad years after he had been fired as Benny the Bull because he got caught selling drugs after a game. Oh, they said, benny, you gotta go.

[Eggo Wodom]

Benny, you can't be doing that up here.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay. All right.

[Langston Kerman]

So he was. He was all right. He was an alcoholic, but he was all right. And then. And then my most recent stepdad, my mom married a man in Ghana who sells juice.

[Eggo Wodom]

Oh, very good. And has she been to come? Very good for her. Thank God. I bet you that juice is really good, though, because the fruit over there, it's pretty good. It's good. Okay. Do you call him by his first name?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. What do you step. Stepdad. What do you call them? Stepfather. No.

[Eggo Wodom]

I don't know. I never had a stepdad. I truly don't know how these things work or like, bonus Dad. I don't. I've heard that said. No. Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

If it were more proper, I. I call him. If it was up to me, but. But that's rude. So I call him.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay. Okay. Hello. That's very rude. How long have they been together?

[Langston Kerman]

My. Oh, they're not together anymore. My mom, she. She finds them, she ditches them, you.

[Eggo Wodom]

Know, and she gets out of there. And do you respect. I respect it. Kind of. If she knows this isn't working for me.

[Langston Kerman]

I respected it more as a. As a boy. I think I was like, ah, yeah, that's right. You gotta make. You're independent. You gotta make choices for yourself. And now as a man, it's like, come on, baby, we're. We're in the end game now. We can't keep. We can't keep being rascals and hopping around. You know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

I really. I have so many more Questions about this, but I do need to do your intro.

[Langston Kerman]

Do you just keep cruising?

[Eggo Wodom]

I should just keep going at this point, But I'm going to introduce you properly because it's only right. Today's guest is an actor, writer, and comedian. You might recognize him from Insecure, High Maintenance, the Boys and English teacher. His latest special, Bad Poetry just came out on Netflix. Please welcome my dad for the day, Langston Kerman. Hello. Okay, like we just got here. Do you have a walkout music for your shows of. You know when you like, go do a show somewhere and they go, is there music you want to walk out to?

[Langston Kerman]

There was a period where I was doing the. That. That sexy red Drake song. The thin. That ass over.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Coochie breathe. But now it's. Yeah, he's in a bad way.

[Eggo Wodom]

And how did you switch up on him?

[Langston Kerman]

I didn't switch up. He made passion fruit. I'm never gonna turn on Drake. But. But you got to know when to. When to leave the party.

[Eggo Wodom]

Bow out of the beef.

[Langston Kerman]

You got to know when he needs some time to himself. You know what I mean? And I think right now Drake needs some. Some real time to reflect, if you could guess.

[Eggo Wodom]

Do you think he's actually taking the time to reflect right now?

[Langston Kerman]

Absolutely not. I think.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. That's exactly. Like, there's no way he's laying low as far as, like, the public goes. And the larger public, in my opinion, but not actually like, okay, I'm in journaling, I'm in therapy. I'm talking.

[Langston Kerman]

I think, honestly, he probably just got a fresh surgery. He.

[Eggo Wodom]

Do you think he actually has a bbl?

[Langston Kerman]

I. Yeah, I think he's got like the he Bl thing. Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

What is the he? Okay, is the he Bl. The abs?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I think he got the abs carved out and like, you know, they make the titty meet a little more shapely, a little more fine tuned titty meat.

[Eggo Wodom]

Honestly, when Kendrick said that on the song, when he's like, then tell him where you got the abs from, I was like, I love that accusation. It's fun, it's juicy. But I didn't know that was a real possibility. Like, you can get your abs car.

[Langston Kerman]

I just have never seen a person with abs and 25% body fat. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think that's how that works. So I think something had to have someone or something had to have intervened to make that possible.

[Eggo Wodom]

Would you ever do something like that?

[Langston Kerman]

I think about it every day. Ego. I. I really do. I Go. I go, look, man, you got these children and, and they're not making exercise and eating better, easier. I went to two children's birthday parties yesterday.

[Eggo Wodom]

Two. Oh, Lord.

[Langston Kerman]

And there's cake at all of them, you know what I mean? And Domino's Pizza. And I like both of those things.

[Eggo Wodom]

And you're gonna have them.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm gonna have them. I gotta, I gotta keep children alive. I'm gonna, I'm gonna eat some dominoes and some cake and. Yeah, that just doesn't make it so that you get to keep the body you. You dreamt of.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay. Did you ever have the body you dreamt of? Respectfully.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, thank you for asking. And thank you for asking respectfully. If you would have said that rudely, I. I don't know what I would have done.

[Eggo Wodom]

The distinction, I think is important. Important.

[Langston Kerman]

The best adult shape I've ever been in was when I first moved to New York. I was working for a moving company and was like doing 16 hour days, having to like carry couches up like 6 floor walk ups and that. I was, I was, I was popping, baby.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, okay. They hire very good looking people and given you're an actor, I'm like, it might apply. Piece of cake. Moving company. This is not an ad for them. But their truck was just outside of my apartment a little bit ago and I was like, they hire really a attractive movers. I think it's part of their thing.

[Langston Kerman]

No, I worked for a moving company. They hired comedians and crackheads.

[Eggo Wodom]

Did you actually work with crackheads?

[Langston Kerman]

Former, for sure. Like a lot of people who are like former drug addict. They paid us entirely in cash. Everything is like under the table and so like it. You don't even have to really fill out paperwork. You just have to agree to show up however many days a week you show up kind of thing.

[Eggo Wodom]

You guys are in people's homes and stuff with all their most precious belongings.

[Langston Kerman]

And in charge, scratching our necks, asking for a dollar. Doing it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Come on. Okay, I understand. Okay. Now, Langston, you have said you've had multiple stepdads of sorts, some who stepped up as stepdads. What do you call a stepdad who doesn't step up? Just a dad?

[Langston Kerman]

No, just a man in the house.

[Eggo Wodom]

Just a man. A man in the house. Not even of the house. In the house. These prepositions are important.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that. And that is worth noting. None of the mother. The men that my mother married ever contributed very much. They never. They weren't bringing it. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, oh, we're folding two incomes together, and now suddenly we can go on a family vacation. It was just another mouth to feed.

[Eggo Wodom]

Wow.

[Langston Kerman]

And who could cover the light bill? I guess? I don't know.

[Eggo Wodom]

Oh, goodness. Okay. What do you think her appeal was then in having them around? Is it just the company then, at that point?

[Langston Kerman]

I, I guess so. I think my mom, if I, If I were to ask my mom, she, she would say that she is a. She loves hard and she loves fast. And I think that she sort of sees the potential in people even when they are not necessarily demonstrating their greatest potential. And so I think for her, it was more like, I have found somebody who makes me feel love and joy and excitement, despite them taking some of.

[Eggo Wodom]

Our resources, our actual practical resources. Okay, that's. I want to say beautiful. I'm tempted to say beautiful when I hear that you go, that's a really lovely. Where she goes. The feeling they evoke for me is greater than the reality that they are creating or, or taking away from. And something's beautiful about that. But your face.

[Langston Kerman]

I, I, I want to agree with you, and I think.

[Eggo Wodom]

I guess I said I want to say that and you want to agree with me, but it seems neither of us are able to commit to our desire in this moment. Right?

[Langston Kerman]

I think that's right.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

And no, neither of us. So now we're having a hypothetical exchange, but I understand that, and thank you for laying that out for me. And you had a favorite or so of man in the house. What was your biological father like?

[Langston Kerman]

He's. He's a great guy. He's. He's a very. He ain't an emotional man. There's not a lot of maybe, like what traditional fathers often are stereotyped as. He's sort of a more stoic individual who, who doesn't. I've seen my father cry twice, and it's only because. Because someone very important to him died. Yeah, but he's, he was very, like, there to help me with my homework and help me, you know, work on my basketball and, and at games and driving me to and from things. He was a very present man in a beautiful way.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. Did you guys have a very close relationship then, growing up?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I mean, so. Because my parents split when I was very young, I, I was four, I think, when they split up, I think for years, I interpret our relationship, interpreted our relationship as something more complicated than it probably was. I think I was moving between households, so I'd spend half the week at my dad's house, and then half the week in my mom's house. And I, you know, for my. My mom sort of felt like that was where the fun happened and sort of like the excitement. And then my dad felt a little more like the disciplined household. And also I hated his new wife. And so it just made things a little more complicated between my father and I. But. But no, I think. I think we. We've remained close, and I think it took years of me kind of learning to recognize him inside of a relationship that I didn't want him to have to be like, oh, okay, I. I see you, and I see what you were trying to do. Even if I don't agree with it, it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Now, you said that your mom's house felt more like the place where the fun happens, and your dad's felt like, this is where I am going to be disciplined and sort of set on a right path, if you will, just again, because of his relationship and such. That feels very interesting to me because I feel like even in movies it's the opposite, where it's like, mom's house, Mom's the disciplinarian, and I go to dad's and he doesn't know what's going on or his left from his right, and we just have fun over here and eat pizza.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

You mentioned his marriage is one of the things that maybe contributed to that. But why do you think that dynamic for you was different, or what was it about your parents, perhaps, that made that so different?

[Langston Kerman]

I just think that my mom and you. You can hear it in. In sort of like the tradition of her relationships. I think my. Was much more of like a live by the seat of her pants kind of lady. She. She was always. She's always coming up with a plan, and sometimes that plan works, and sometimes it doesn't work. But she got a new plan next week that's gonna. We're gonna try it out as a family kind of thing. I think at one point she bought an RV because she just was like, yeah, we're gonna, like, I'm gonna drive around the country and I'm gonna become like a public speaker, riding around in the RV and, like, doing that, and it's like, but you're not. I don't think you're gonna do that.

[Eggo Wodom]

How old were you when that happened?

[Langston Kerman]

Like 24 or something.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, so you weren't still living, presumably not still living with her?

[Langston Kerman]

No, but I was too close to it. Do you know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

Like, yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

So I'm the oldest of five kids, and all of them are much younger than I am. Like, okay, the next in line after me is 10 years younger than I am.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

Which mean. And then the youngest is 23 years younger than I am.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

Like, I. I have to remain sort of tapped into your choices because these little people are still, you know, in some ways affected by this stuff.

[Eggo Wodom]

Do you feel. And given that age gap and what you just said about feeling like you need to stay tapped into your mom's choices, like you play a father figure role in your siblings lives.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I mean, certainly with the youngest, I do. And then I think it was even with like my siblings after the, you know, immediately after me, it felt, because I was 10 years old before the first one showed up, I think it felt a lot more like a kind of uncle figure than a like, brother, sister relationship, if that makes sense.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. Did you feel like you had to play a role in like, their discipline?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, but I didn't want to. And then, and then it became. It got tense. Like, there's a weird thing where you're disciplining people that frankly, you shouldn't have to discipline. And I don't know, it made things messy. I never, in retrospect, I don't think I ever fully made sense of what it meant to be that much older than small people and still try to maintain, like a truly playful relationship with them.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. Yeah. I have said this on the podcast before. I think if I haven't great time to say it is. My mom got divorced when I was a baby, and so I am the youngest. Your dad from my dad. Yes.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

And so I'm the youngest of four. And my brother is close. I have two brothers and a sister. My brother, who's closest in age to me, is five years older than I am. And then the oldest is eight years older than I am. That's my other brother. My sister's in there in the middle, but my brother, who's five years older than I am in theory, I'm like, we should be just like buddies. It really. But I think growing up, it created a lot of tension in our relationship that I think he felt like he had to, like, step up in a different way as a brother. To me, there's no male figure in the house besides him and my brother. And it created a strange dynamic for our relationship. And so we used to butt heads a lot. We're very close now. Very, very close. But. But we've since talked about it. I mean, years ago it was like he's like, I felt responsible for You. And I was always like, just, can this just be my brother? I want to be able to, like, fight with you. I want to be able to, like. I don't want to feel like I need to, like, respect you in some way.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, why do I. You. Why do you keep telling me to call you sir? This is odd.

[Eggo Wodom]

It's so funny, because my oldest. My mom's. My mom is one of nine and right above her. Yeah, she's one of nine. She is the second oldest. So, you know, she has. What's math? Seven siblings who are younger than her and one sibling who's older, and that's her brother, my uncle. And they do call him sir. His siblings call him sir because culturally, it's like, you do respect your elders. But I didn't know that growing up, because obviously they grew up in Nigeria, my mom and her siblings. I grew up here. And so I just thought his name, and with their accent, I thought his name. I. I spent all of childhood, I don't think, till I was, like, 21. I was like, oh, that's not part of his name. They're calling him sir in their accent because no one ever explained it to me. And so that is interesting you say that because I truly could not conceive of him like, you're calling your brother sir, But I. It did not occur to me. I thought they were saying, like, Sam, and his name was two part and like.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, but was he the only. Because there's nine of them. So was he the only sir, or did everybody get.

[Eggo Wodom]

No, he was the only sir. He was the only sir. And my. My mom being the oldest daughter right after. Born right after him. There was no. They weren't calling her ma'am.

[Langston Kerman]

Patriarchy is wild.

[Eggo Wodom]

It's wild. But now I'm like, yeah, they didn't. They didn't call her that.

[Langston Kerman]

So I'm like, she should have been ma'am.

[Eggo Wodom]

But you know what? They do all call her auntie, like her sister, her siblings. But not because they have to. I don't. It feels very much like a term of endearment. I don't know how much older she is than them. I've never, like, tried to do the math on my aunts and uncles. I have no idea. But I'm like, they do. But it feels like. Like, we just call her that. Cause she's our oldest sister. I don't think my mom would be tripping if they called her by her name.

[Langston Kerman]

Right.

[Eggo Wodom]

Those dynamics are very interesting to me. Where you go. I would watch Movies. And I'd watch friends and their siblings or their older cousins who maybe live with them, and I'd be like, see, they're just siblings and she's cussing at her and it's fine. And then they get over it a.

[Langston Kerman]

Couple hours later with sticks and then they go eat pudding or whatever it is.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yes, it's specifically in the case you've just described. And I have had that experience where it's like, there is no like, steady male father figure in the home. But this person, this is an older male. Older sibling is like, oh, I feel some semblance of responsibility for you beyond the normal like, oh, I'm your older brother, older sister.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. It's something I think I craved in a way that I again, it took years to sort of like realize this, but I just have always craved a true sibling relationship and not this weird hybrid relationship that isn't quite right. And like, none of us have the same exact set of parents. It's all like mix and match because of all these step parents involved. And so like, none of us really look alike. And it just sort of like makes this distance in the relationship that you didn't really want and like, wish wasn't there, but you can't really do much about.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. Did you feel a closeness then to any of your siblings, parents that are not yours?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, so my, so my two younger sisters, the next in line are. Are 10 and 11 years younger than I am. Their dad was the one that was around the longest and we, we, I think were pretty close. And then they're my. My mom. And his divorce was so messy and so sort of like volatile that it severed both my relationship with him, but then also did a lot of damage to my relationship with my younger sisters. So even now we're still like in a very slow rebuild towards any semblance of like a healthy relationship. And that's honestly only with the younger of the two of them and less the older of the two of them. Yeah, yeah. It just, you know, relationships are messy and if your parents aren't helping you manage what is already complicated for them, then it becomes your problem to figure out. And I think, unfortunately I was, I was older, but I was still young enough to not know how to like, see past the, you know, the bad choices of the people around me kind of thing.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, you want the adults in your mind at least, at least for me it was like you want them to have the answers and feel like they've lived enough life and they have. Are old enough now. That they are wise and can help us rise above the. Or guide us in a way that allows us to rise above the bullshit and recognize what's really important, what matters here. And then there comes a time, in my opinion, where you go, oh, my God. My parents are human, and they didn't have the tools. Regular degular human. Well, God damn.

[Langston Kerman]

Damn. My mama, a lady at the gas station. I didn't even know.

[Eggo Wodom]

I didn't know it. Here I am thinking you're some sort of superhero. And in my mind, I remember just being like, my mom should be this, like, even killed arbiter of justice. And I was like, she's simply not. She's just. She's just a lady trying her best to have some kids.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. How old were you when your mom and your dad divorced then?

[Eggo Wodom]

So I was a baby, like, actually. So I think they must have separated within my first year of life. They were divorced. I've never known them to be together. I've never seen that to my. Maybe I did as a baby, but, like, I have no memory of them together.

[Langston Kerman]

No. No formative moments in your life together?

[Eggo Wodom]

Yes. Which for me, I've said, too, is probably why the relationship, or lack thereof with my dad kind of doesn't bug me. I just didn't know a different way. Right. And there was nobody sort of coming in and out where I'm like, oh, I thought maybe you were going to step in this role. And now I know what it's like to have a father figure in the house. And I like that. Or I don't like that. I'm like, I have no concept of that really, for myself.

[Langston Kerman]

So your. Your mom never remarried or anything?

[Eggo Wodom]

No, she didn't. No.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, damn.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. Which I do appreciate because it created a sense of stability. And the stability just being like, it's mom. Mom is your parent. But I don't. Yeah. I have no sense of what that would have been like to have a dad in the house. And so I don't. I don't know that I'm missing anything. Cause you can't really miss what you've never had. And you're shaking your head, like, trust me, I had a few of them. And.

[Langston Kerman]

It'S hard to know. I'm very lucky in that I both had all these stepparents, but I remain. I had a consistent father figure the entire time.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I mean, like, I wasn't counting on this new dude to teach me anything other than just like, oh, you know, some. You know, some cool moves on tekken. You know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

We can play video games and hoop. There's nothing else here to offer me kind of thing.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And I think if I, frankly, if I were in a different position, then I might have found myself, you know, wishing those, you know, that this man can fix it for me kind of thing.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. You've already said that. Like, you know, you didn't necessarily feel growing up like the adults had the tools to give you guys to go, hey, let's sort of look beyond the. And remember, like, you guys are siblings and your relationships matter in so many words. I don't want to put words.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, but I think that's right.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. Now, on your dad's side, do you think he was any better at that though, than perhaps maybe your mom and your sister's dad might have been? Was your dad any better?

[Langston Kerman]

No. I mean, I think my dad made a more active effort because. So his wife and I have never gotten along. Do not get along to this day. But my brother, who is the third sibling in line after me, well, you know, he's the fourth of us, but sure, he is the product of my dad and his current wife, and he and I sort of have a, you know, distant relationship in part because his wife and I never got along. And that created a lot of distance. And I think my dad would actively try to encourage us, you know, like, ah, you should. You. You gotta say hi to your brother. Go. Go hang out with your brother, whatever it is. But your dad is white.

[Eggo Wodom]

Your dad's the white one.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, just the voice. Okay. Classic white dad.

[Langston Kerman]

He, I think, was very encouraging of, like, you should maintain a relationship, but also was not, I think, equipped to help resolve the unhealthiness in the household. You know what I mean? Like, you're being like, go hang out, but you're not helping to fix the actual problem.

[Eggo Wodom]

Sure.

[Langston Kerman]

And until you're able to fix the problem, it's hard to just be like, oh, I'm gonna, like, look past this stuff because I'm 16 and I'm an. The way that every child is.

[Eggo Wodom]

That is accurate. And I get that. That makes complete sense.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

Does he seem bothered in. In any real way by what the dynamic is between you, your stepmom and your sibling? Your brother, that's his son.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I think it bothers him a lot, honestly. I think he, even to this day, he will still like. And he, again, not a big emotional talker, but I think the one thing that he ever asks of me, sort of with a Truly emotional. Crying out is like, to. For years, I didn't speak to her. Like, I literally would be in the house and not say a word.

[Eggo Wodom]

Savage.

[Langston Kerman]

And I, I, I knew, like, if I say something, it's just gonna be cussing at you or it's just gonna be, like, sort of tense. And so I had resolved that part of her, her strength in that household was getting me to, like, get emotional, get upset. And so I became sort of like, I, Maya Angelou, that, you know, I just realized these words, right? And so I think for years, I just would not speak. And she would, she would try to force that out of me. And then he would come to me privately and be like, dude, you just gotta say hi to her. You just gotta, like, try to, like, you know, do basic communication. And I refused. And I think that that bothered him a lot. And even in my adulthood, for years, he would beg me, please just say hi to Marsha. Come on.

[Eggo Wodom]

Just.

[Langston Kerman]

Just try. And it's like, no, I don't like her.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, so you. And so you. Do you still not say. You don't say hi to Marcia now?

[Langston Kerman]

I do. I don't care. I, you know, I, I think I keep every interaction very minimal. You will know nothing about me. I will never laugh at a single joke. You tell you what I mean. Like, there's never gonna be, like, a moment. And, like, my kids come around like, you know, my daughter is this hugely loquacious, sort of, like, warm person, far more outgoing than either myself or my wife are. And so, like, she'll go in the room and she's saying hi to everybody and high fiving folks, and like, I'm never blocking, you know, my, my child from enjoying whoever she enjoys, but also, like, bitch, you know, don't. Don't let me catch you hugging up on her. You know what I mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

Like, don't.

[Langston Kerman]

Don't get my bab. No kisses.

[Eggo Wodom]

Don't give my baby no kisses so she knows what it is. Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

Keep your leathery lips off my child.

[Eggo Wodom]

Langston, wait. That's too funny. The drama is kind of fun. I don't, I'm not laughing at the drama, but sure.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, no, I grew up. Messy ego. There's nothing I, I've always told people. It's not. I did not grow up in a, a, in any version of, like, a bad childhood. And so, like, you know, we, we had enough means for me to eat and get what I needed. I wasn't like any sort of, like, hardship in that way. I just had two messy Ass households. And they're the emotional sort of like hardship made up for, you know.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

What other people probably are struggling with.

[Eggo Wodom]

On the other end right now. You say your dad is the disciplinarian, or was at least when you were growing up. You go to his house.

[Langston Kerman]

I wouldn't say he was the disciplinarian. I just think his house was more disciplined.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, that's. That does make sense. Okay, now what were some of the things he taught you then while you were at his house or spending time with him?

[Langston Kerman]

My dad was. Is. My grandparents describe him as their smartest child. He. He was like, you know, graduated with high honors from Yale. He. He was growing up and planning to be a mathematician and then made other choices. He moved into socialism and just sort of focused on that. But. But he is a brilliant, brilliant person as it pertains to, like, all things, you know, school and homework and things like that. So I think a lot of my ability to sort of maneuver through school I can largely attribute to like my dad and him helping me figure out how to like, you know, solve equations and write essays and just be a capable student in a way that I probably wouldn't have been if it were just me at my mom's house, you know, waiting. Waiting for the computer.

[Eggo Wodom]

Who was on it? One of the guys.

[Langston Kerman]

There's plenty of people in there. Anybody could have been on that computer.

[Eggo Wodom]

I think it sound like a library just waiting on the computer at the house. But also there was a time when I'm like, you had to use dial up to get on the Internet too, you know, and it was like the. You can't be on the phone if you're on the Internet. That was. That was a whole thing too.

[Langston Kerman]

Nobody could be on the phone. Nobody could, you know, if anybody else had like any version of work to do, you just had to wait your turn. We were.

[Eggo Wodom]

It was a different. It was kind.

[Langston Kerman]

It was. Why.

[Eggo Wodom]

I mean, it's wild to think about because the youth of today have no idea not to sound like that person, but they really don't.

[Langston Kerman]

They have no clue. Now the nice thing was we also could like, you could handwrite an essay and turn that in. And teachers were like, yup, this makes sense.

[Eggo Wodom]

Handwriting. An essay is crazy to think about. That is crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

It's absolutely nuts.

[Eggo Wodom]

The notion just said to chill down my spine that we were actually in pencil, which is just like, that's gross. That's my hot take.

[Langston Kerman]

We were animals.

[Eggo Wodom]

Absolutely. Okay, what, what else did you or your dad connect on? Beyond Those moments where it's like, I'm learning how to be a good student and write these essays and do this math homework. What are some of the other things you connected on?

[Langston Kerman]

Basketball was really big in our house. I, I played basketball and my dad loved basketball. He was, he, he will tell you he was bad at basketball, and he was likewise fifth, sixth grade. Me and my friends could, could beat him in one on one, and that's embarrassing because he sticks to. It Ain't like. It ain't like he's a little guy. He had the, the means to be able to beat children. He just couldn't. Oh, no, but he, yeah, we, we connected a lot on sort of sports and basketball in particular. I don't know, the O.J. trial. We vibe.

[Eggo Wodom]

O.J. trial. Did he think O.J. did it or not?

[Langston Kerman]

My dad, because of, because I think of his political sort of positioning, number one, never cared if OJ did it. I think he looked at it much more as, like, this is a failure of a system at large.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay?

[Langston Kerman]

Just like guilt, innocence. He doesn't, frankly, believe that the, the government or the state has the right to decide innocence and guilt in the same way that we deem, you know, we, the, the state should not be able to send somebody to jail for life or, or murder them simply because of a crime that they commit in.

[Eggo Wodom]

My dad's eyes, okay? So he didn't care. All right?

[Langston Kerman]

I didn't give a fuck.

[Eggo Wodom]

Did you have a take? Did you think he did it?

[Langston Kerman]

I don't think I, I think as a child, I don't think I thought he did it. I think I thought this was like, oh, Mark Fuhrman. I, I think I knew, I knew the hot, you know, I mean, the, the takes.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I, both my parents, I think, were both like, nah, this is, this is messed up. This is corrupt, whatever it is, but, but now I know that his son did it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, I was just talking to somebody about this. I feel like every two years I find myself in a deep conversation about the O.J. trial and became privy to the Sun did it theory.

[Langston Kerman]

How much, how much did you hear in terms of argument?

[Eggo Wodom]

You know, not a lot. Not a lot. And that's where I go. I need more information about why we think the sun did it. And then, yeah, you have the information. You're like, the information. Wait, tell me.

[Langston Kerman]

Tell you a little bit about Jason Simpson.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, go off, do it in 60 seconds.

[Langston Kerman]

You got it. He's the eldest son of O.J. simpson. Right?

[Eggo Wodom]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

He has a history, a Recorded history of violence. Specifically violence with knives. He had been fired from multiple jobs because of threatening his bosses with knives. He also had a very difficult, sort of tumultuous relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson. Often sort of on the outs between them. The day that Nicole Brown Simpson is murdered, she was supposed to go eat at a restaurant that he was working at. She. He had like, saved her a reservation. She didn't show up. And instead went to the restaurant where Ron Goldman was working.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yes.

[Langston Kerman]

Made this. Made Jason upset. Now here's where it gets even crazier is that when OJ Is sort of notified that Nicole has been murdered.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

The only person he calls a lawyer for is Jason. Not himself really. Only calls a lawyer for Jason. Jason has since gone missing. He is nowhere to be found. Often suspected to still be living in Atlanta somewhere. Is that 60 seconds that I nail it?

[Eggo Wodom]

I think. I think you did nail it. I think that was just about 60 seconds. And that is convincing as fuck. And I'm. I'm on the Jason did it train now. I got on. And this is why you don't let the government decide whether someone's guilty or innocent. Because it took you 60 seconds to convince me. I'm like, great. Jason did it. That sounds about right.

[Langston Kerman]

I did not know.

[Eggo Wodom]

All that matches up for me. And I go.

[Langston Kerman]

But now imagine you have a judge's robe on. This is like.

[Eggo Wodom]

And he did it. Jason's done it. And Jason's going to jail for life. This is not. You're right. Your dad's right. We shouldn't get to decide this now.

[Langston Kerman]

We're people.

[Eggo Wodom]

I became very intrigued. Like, this is maybe 6 months ago. I was on a Wikipedia hole about OJ the guy that was his roommate. There was a man living with him. Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Kalin was living in the back house.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. I didn't. That was fascinating to me. I thought, that's interesting. Imagine being the roommate in all of that. Anyway.

[Langston Kerman]

He does stand up comedy now.

[Eggo Wodom]

Have you been on the circuit with him?

[Langston Kerman]

Watch your mouth. I. You watch a damn mouth. Ko Kin and I do not watch the same rooms. No.

[Eggo Wodom]

Ko. Not your feature.

[Langston Kerman]

If Ko Kin starts featuring for me, things have gone. Arai.

[Eggo Wodom]

They didn't.

[Langston Kerman]

They didn't go as planned.

[Eggo Wodom]

You heard it here. Was it important to you to make your dad proud?

[Langston Kerman]

Huh? Yeah, I think so. I think that was. That. That would have. That would mean a lot to me and. And has meant a lot to me over the years to feel like he's proud of the things that I'm doing. He's. He's not the type of person that would ever say out loud, I am proud of you, but he sort of shows his pride, I think, through just presence. I think he's much better at just like. Like, I listened to the thing that you did. I watched the thing, and that was cool. I. I think he's. He's not ready yet to be like, a I love you, I'm proud of you person.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

I think he's gonna show up every week, whether, you know, whether I asked him to or not.

[Eggo Wodom]

He'll be there, so that's quite nice.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. That's pride.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

For him.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. Do you want to hear him say, I love you, or. Or I'm proud of you? Would that be really meaningful to you? Would it make a huge difference, or is the presence enough for you?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I think the presence is enough. I think. I think sometimes we get a little greedy for what we want from people, and I think we kind of have to meet people where they are and what they're capable of giving. And I think he had a. His dad was a. A man of the military and, like, was a guy who had a ton of guns in the basement and sort of a very proud Ohio man in that way. And I think he just never really was able to get that energy from his dad. And so he's not necessarily handing it down to me, but I think he is capable of handing down the care. Care is far more meaningful, in my opinion, than the words are. So I'm great. Grateful.

[Eggo Wodom]

Sure. Do you aspire to be, or are you the type of parent who does say, I love you and I'm proud of you?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I. I try to be that as much as I can. I. I'm big. I tell my. My daughter and my son I love them all the time. My son don't speak English. He ain't retaining any of it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Does he speaks a different language or. He's.

[Langston Kerman]

He's. Four months. Months. I don't know what he speaks yet.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, he's making sounds, though.

[Langston Kerman]

The boy could be Nordic, as far as I. As far as I can tell. But he. He. She. I. I try to tell them as often as possible that I love them, that I'm proud of them. I'm working on being the type of parent that apologizes, which I think is huge, very meaningful, and. And that's not always easy. I'm also learning to be the type of partner that apologizes, which isn't always easy, but. But, yeah, I want to be able to see Sort of these missing holes in my own upbringing and fill them rather than sort of like carrying them forward.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right, right. That's really beautiful and meaningful in my opinion, Especially that part about being the type of parent that apologizes or partner that apologizes, namely the parent part. Because I wonder if hearing my mom or any adult apologize to a child when I was growing up, especially when they're, like, kind of stuck and ultimately are in the wrong. Even in retrospect, hearing them apologize would have made me much sooner go, oh, this is a human. And. And also go recognize just how powerful it is to apologize and how it makes it okay to apologize and feel like so many relationships are damaged romantically, friendships, whatever, because people are not willing to apologize. And we don't learn it necessarily from our parents or haven't histor. It seems, learn that from parents to go, yeah, I didn't know.

[Langston Kerman]

I didn't know you could apologize to a child for a long time.

[Eggo Wodom]

Seems kind of crazy. But, like, even when I say it right, I go. And I don't know if it's a matter of my upbringing. I'm not trying to disparage my family because I think they did a great job raising me, but the notion seems kind of radical to be like, an adult's gonna. An adult who's caring for a child who can, like, do near nothing for themselves. You're gonna go, I'm sorry.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, sorry I raised my voice at you or lost my temper or whatever. It is, like, it's. It's really. It is. It does feel radical, but there's an insane catharsis I felt in saying those words out loud that, like, the times where I have felt like I've lost control of the type of parent that I've imagined myself to be in a moment, it's. It's freeing in a weird way to be able to go back to my kid and be like, I'm sorry, daddy didn't. You know, shouldn't have done that, or, I didn't mean to feel the way that I felt. But these are the reasonings. And thankfully, my daughter is very articulate and sort of has the. The ability to, like, say back, like, yeah, it's okay. I. I'm sorry too. I wish, you know, that didn't happen kind of thing. And, yeah, it just makes you feel like, oh, this isn't. This isn't, like, work. This is like, a. My part. This is another partner that I have in this thing.

[Eggo Wodom]

That's really cool.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, it's a small, dumb partner.

[Eggo Wodom]

Are you going to apologize to her for that?

[Langston Kerman]

I feel like she won't listen until she proves otherwise.

[Eggo Wodom]

She dumbed to me, my small, dumb partner. I mean, I think that. Yeah, I think it's. It's really incredible what that can teach her, though. And even early on, teaching her even forgiveness, because when she gets to say. Say to you, okay, I'm. I'm sorry, too, or that's okay, I didn't like that. I just. I think that lesson is so invaluable. But what made you decide you wanted to be the kind of parent who articulates I'm sorry? Because I know you say you had these holes in your childhood and your upbringing that you'd like to rectify, but the first time you said sorry, what made you go, I think I'm gonna say sorry to this child?

[Langston Kerman]

You know what it is? I think I. And I'm grateful. My wife and I. And I owe her more credit than myself, obviously, but my wife and I had hold very different positions in disciplining. Right. That, like, when. When my wife was pregnant, she was like, ah, we're gonna spank. We're gonna be a spanking household. Because sometimes you gotta hit a baby to figure out how to.

[Eggo Wodom]

You're making her sound bad. Come on, Langston.

[Langston Kerman]

She said, I'm gonna beat the. Out of our kids. And I said, baby, please.

[Eggo Wodom]

And she said, no, I'm carrying this child. I'll tell you what to do with that. Okay? Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

But she, I think, was leaning more towards, like. I think traditions that just felt, you know, similar to the ones that we were raised in. And it's probably generational, I imagine. I. I have to assume that you at least grew up in a. The under the threat of. Of spanking.

[Eggo Wodom]

If my mom. My mom did not spank me. And I've said this before, but someone once said to me, and it shows, I did not get spanked. I mean, other people spanked me, which is its own. That's its own thing, but not. I can name the times I've gotten spanked. I think, like, I remembered what I remember one and a half times. Like, I was not getting spanked out here. I think I'm lovely.

[Langston Kerman]

Personally, I'm enjoying it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Thank you so much. Like, said, I'm, like, I'm lovely. What do you mean? In its shows.

[Langston Kerman]

I haven't seen you at your lows.

[Eggo Wodom]

But, yeah, I enjoy, you know, at my lows. I think that. I think I'm still. I'm very human at my lows. But again, I Think lovely. And I am good for coming back and apologizing to people. I. Especially when I feel I owe someone an apology.

[Langston Kerman]

Good for you.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yes. But. But you're saying your wife wanted to sort of go along with tradition.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I think she was a little closer to, like, wanting to, like, you know, reflect some of the things that we experienced. And I think I wanted. I was like, no, we. We have the chance to start a new wave. We can be something different than the whole thing. And then our kid showed up, and she immediately shut down all theories of that. She was like, I'm never gonna lay hands on this child ever. Once.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

My. It then forced me. She doesn't discipline our daughter even in the least, and she barely tells the girl no. And it then, I think, forced me, or at least made me feel forced into a position of becoming the disciplinarian in a way that I didn't anticipate. But in doing that, I think my position, my want, has still remained exactly where it is. I want to be a different version of a parent than the ones that I sort of was raised with. And so there have been times where I found myself getting angry or. Or raising my voice or feeling like I'm taking things too far. And it's been my wife sort of pointing out that, like, hey, there was an alternative here. You didn't. Whatever that reaction was, even if you don't agree with, like. Like, how I'm handling it, there's. There was steps in between that didn't have to go as far as you felt like it had to go. And I think in hearing that and seeing that demonstrated, I'm able to recognize, like, oh, I don't have to be that. And if I do find myself becoming something I didn't want that I can just say, my bad. I'm sorry. I. I don't have to. To take pride in this.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Can just be something I'm working on and growing in.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. And it's a wonder how many experiences that are unpleasant even for. For you in that position that can just be wrapped up by going, I'm sorry, and you go, you don't have to stand on this wrong thing. You did an air quote wrong, or this thing that produced a result you didn't intend. You can just surmise it and go, you know what? That was a mistake. I'm human. And even as a parent, hi, I'm gonna be a human, and I'm genuinely trying my best, but I'm aware and present and with you, and I can acknowledge If I misstepped or mishandled a.

[Langston Kerman]

Situation, there's so much anxiety, I think, that keeps living and sort of bubbling up when you don't do that. You know what I mean? Like, in the times where I've refused to apologize in my relationship or previous relationship, it becomes truly this festering thing of just like, damn, all right, now I gotta really, like, pretend like I really stand on the shit.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

That I did. And that become. Then you just. Your shoulders are different. It's just. It's not worth it.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I wonder if sociopaths feel that way at all or if they're just.

[Langston Kerman]

I think that's the beauty of sociopaths, is they don't feel that it's beautiful way to live.

[Eggo Wodom]

I can only imagine you don't feel any of that. You're like, I am gonna stand on this because I don't care, and I'm not feeling any of it. Is there a moment where you've had to discipline your daughter that has felt, like, uncomfortable for you? And you were in the right as a parent, but it was like, I don't want to be in this spot. I want to be playful with you or want to feel a different way.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Eggo Wodom]

You're like.

[Langston Kerman]

I think it's. That is sort of the constant challenge of a toddler in your home. Is that like. Like, I'm always right. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not. Nothing I'm telling you is wrong.

[Eggo Wodom]

I see. Okay. That's the distinction. Okay. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Your brain is unfinished. So I. I am correct. But what is correct when you're dealing with somebody who's. Who's pure id, you know what I mean? Like, everything is just a. Want a drive that. That sort of moves them through the world. And so, like, there are times my daughter the other day, truly had, like, a major meltdown because she wanted, like, we had left the house. We were on our way to school, and I'm walking her to school, and she, like, wanted a hat, a pink hat that she had at the house that she's never worn and never worn to school, does not wear ever. But, like, had a full meltdown to the point that she. We got to. I, like, had convinced her, we can't go back to get this hat hat. And then we made it to school, and then she started crying some more. And then the teachers are, like, texting me, being like, hey, man, if you.

[Eggo Wodom]

Gonna get this pink. We're hearing about a pink hat.

[Langston Kerman]

Like, we're hearing about a hat we didn't realize you didn't bring the hat, but. But you got to bring that hat. And so, like, you know, I'm sitting here, like, essentially wanting to cuss out a child over a hat that I know she doesn't need. No, she's not gonna wear. No, no. I don't know where this is coming from, but it truly is just a want that you have. But then there's also the need to go and get the hat. Do you know what I mean? And there is a need to then, even in giving her the hat, to recognize that, hey, I raised my voice with you, and I. I was frustrated with you in a way that doesn't make me feel good about our relationship. So I can still apologize for that. Even though you're a psychopath path who has no business asking for this hat.

[Eggo Wodom]

And when you do give an apology, you tack something like that on the end under my breath.

[Langston Kerman]

I know.

[Eggo Wodom]

I know you didn't say that. Just a little something. She didn't hear that. She didn't hear that part. So she's thinking, it's all cool. It's like, dude, call me a psychopath. That makes sense. I've. I can only imagine how complicated and challenging it is to have a child in your home that is yours, that you are responsible for, whose brain, I love the way you put it, is not fully formed. So you're getting frustrated with this. You can't. Can you call a child a half human? Because I almost said half human.

[Langston Kerman]

It sounds right to me.

[Eggo Wodom]

I feel like, yeah, not all. You're not. You're not all the way. I know. I guess they are all the way human. I don't know. But anyway, not to me.

[Langston Kerman]

I wouldn't say. So I. I'm. Now. I wouldn't repeat that to any medical professionals or.

[Eggo Wodom]

Correct. That's where I would try not to get caught.

[Langston Kerman]

Adults in her life.

[Eggo Wodom]

But sure, sure. Yeah, okay.

[Langston Kerman]

She is not a full human to me.

[Eggo Wodom]

Right. Are there things you want to emulate so you spend a lot of time, or let me not say you spend a lot of time. You are being quite mindful to approach parenting in a way that fills in some of the gaps you might have felt in your childhood from your parents. Are there things your parents. And namely your dad. Dad did growing up for you that you actively recognize and go, I'd like to emulate that.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. My dad's. My dad's ability to. I talked about it before, but the showing up is so massive. I think I want to be able to create real sort of systems around homework and around like my kids relationship with like getting work done. Because I think that kind of discipline has only benefited me in my adult life. Like, I'm never gonna use absolute value or any of like, you know, long division that I, I learned in the hours that I spent doing the homework. But I think the, the stringent sort of like behavior around, like you go home, you get started on your homework, nothing is free until you are done with that kind of has, has, you know, it's made me a more disciplined adult and I think that I'd like for my kids to have that kind of relationship, you know what I mean, with education. I think even with my mom, I, I, my mom is a very, very funny person, but easily the funniest person in our family. And so like, I think just being playful and having that playfulness with your kids is important. And I, I want to emulate a lot of what my mom was able to do in our relationship. I think they did, they took the tools that they had and they, they made a nice stew as best they could. And so I, I'd like to mirror.

[Eggo Wodom]

A lot of it, right? So if you feel like your parents made this nice stew and obviously between the two of them, you got a lot of tools and there are things that you want to emulate that each of them demonstrated. Is there anything that you go off the top of your head? I feel like my wife's gonna be better in this regard as a parent than I will be.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. My wife is far more organized than I am.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

I am not. And so I think just being able to create the systems that I wish I could create that my dad was able to put in place, I think my wife's gonna nail, nail that much better. So, so that's why I won't leave.

[Eggo Wodom]

Because you've thought about it at times when you're really standing on, standing on your wrong point, you're like, in fact, I'm gonna get out of here. I'm gonna leave this woman, let her know I'm serious.

[Langston Kerman]

As soon as I get organized, I'm outta here.

[Eggo Wodom]

It's never happening.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm not getting organized.

[Eggo Wodom]

Do you want your kids to be able to talk to you about any and everything? And I'm saying it like this, any and everything.

[Langston Kerman]

I want them to feel like they can talk to me about any and everything.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay? Very different.

[Langston Kerman]

I do not want them to talk to me about any and everything.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay?

[Langston Kerman]

I want you to keep some of that shit to yourself because that ain't my business. Please don't make it my business. I don't need the anxiety of that being my business. But at any point that any of your business makes you feel alone or. Or fearful or truly like you're up against the wall, you can't come back from, fine, tell me everything. And I don't want you to feel at all like, damn, I can't, because, okay, he'll react this way or he'll feel this way about me. Yeah, I'm. Love these little weirdos till they stop.

[Eggo Wodom]

So, yeah, I think you did a great job articulating that distinction, because I've asked a few people that, and that was so beautifully concise, because I want them to feel like it, but keep some of that shit to yourself.

[Langston Kerman]

Keep me out of it.

[Eggo Wodom]

I get that. That's really lovely. As a parent, actually, I will say you're doing a great job, Langston. I don't know what you're. Kids think. We'll have to have them on the podcast at some point to see what kind. Your Nordic son. I'm g. Have him on the podcast at some point and be like, how do you think your dad's doing? We'll. We'll work on that. But I end every. Thank you for being here. I end every episode by asking my guests a piece of dad Vice. I coined that. I don't know if I like it anymore. I was really rocking with that title for a while there, because it came to me in my sleep, and I woke up and got a notepad and said, dad Vice.

[Langston Kerman]

That's what it is.

[Eggo Wodom]

Like, it's so brilliant. But I do end every episode asking for a piece of dad Vice from. From my guests. My dad, for the day, I am going to ask you. So much of it has been about dating, and I don't want it to be, but I'm just looking at you, and I go, I feel like Langston's gonna have the answer to this. And I don't always ask my dad advice that I think that they would be good for, but I do get the sense you might be good for this. If I go on one date with the person, dad. And I don't want to go on another date with that person, but that person texts me, do I have to tell them? And I never promised we'd go on another date or I'd see them again, do I have to say to that person, you're looking at me so uncomfortably. Is it because this is one of the things you want me to feel Like I could talk to you about. But you don't want to go back. No, I'm present my dad for the day.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm here. And this is part of being, this is part of being a good dad. Is that, is that I'll never let you know if this was one of those things.

[Eggo Wodom]

Okay, you're talking faces, selling it all because all of a sudden you got like cartoonishly bright eyed. No, you got cartoonishly bright eyed and stiff. Trying to. Trying.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm just so excited that. Okay, you're, you're out here dating. Yeah. Here doing it. This is great, right?

[Eggo Wodom]

It's actually not. Okay, so if I do, I owe. I have to start over again. And we'll keep this part in me starting over. I got flustered cuz I was like, dad's uncomfortable. Okay, so, so if I go on one date with a person, I never promised a second date. I never made any suggestion we go on a second date. I don't want to go on a second date. That person texts me, do I owe that person, dad a response as to like, do I owe them a response period? And then do I in that response say no thank you to a second date? Because they're not even asking for a second date in the text. So they're just like, what's up? And do I say to that person, do I owe them that? Is that ghosting? The question's loaded. But anyway, please, what are your thoughts?

[Langston Kerman]

Well, I have a few answers that sort of combine Voltron into maybe a complete answer for you. I think, number one, you do not owe them any response. And I think frankly, ghosting is a lot healthier than we give it credit for. I think that that ghosting kind of makes you very aware of how somebody feels about you, even if it doesn't make you feel great in the process. And especially if you haven't established any meaningful sort of like relationship. It. Who cares? You know what I mean? Like, it didn't work work. And now I know. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna put that phone away and if I bump into you, I'm gonna mind my business.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, okay. And he's rubbing his hands like Birdman. Just. I wanted to know.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I like seeing people get ghosted. And no, I, I think ghosting is, is not the violence that it has been sort of presented to be on the Internet. Internet personally. That said, I do think that if you, if you are the type of person that doesn't like how it feels to ghost, which I personally was not, when I was dating. I didn't like ghosting people. It didn't make me feel good. Like, it put a moral weight on my head because I'm a dinosaur. Whatever. I do think that you should be very clear with this person to say, no, I'm good player. This. We don't have to, like, go through the rigmarole of, like, I'm, I'm. Well, how are you? You know what I mean? Like, that.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yes.

[Langston Kerman]

That to me, is actually more of a violence because it's taking them back through the possibility of a relationship or the possibility of growing into something that you're not interested in. And you know that ahead of time. So either don't text back at all, or if you do text back, be like. Like, shut up and be okay.

[Eggo Wodom]

This is good advice, Lancy. You got something figured out. You've been a great dad for the day. That's very helpful. That's very, very helpful. And I'm be like, when I do respond, or if I respond, if I run into this person in the streets, I'm be like, my dad told me to handle you this way. My father told me to handle you like this.

[Langston Kerman]

You told me your dad was dead. What do you mean?

[Eggo Wodom]

And then I started going in and I sent him a link to the podcast and all of a sud. And he's a avid supporter. And then. And then we're dating.

[Langston Kerman]

And now you got a subscriber.

[Eggo Wodom]

Yeah, we got a subscriber. And then I marry the man because he supports me. Thank you so much. Langston. Is there anything you would like to plug before we get out of here?

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, yeah. I have a podcast, and you did an episode. My mama told me that I. I now host with my friend David Bore, and we're going on tour, or we are on tour currently, and we're hitting all kinds of cities near you. So if you want to check that out, check out the podcast and follow the link tree and you see where we're. Where we're heading.

[Eggo Wodom]

I love that. Thank you so much, Langston. I appreciate you.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

[Eggo Wodom]

Of course. Throw the hands up. Thanks. Dad is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, Ego Odom. This show is engineered by Rachelle Chen and Anya Kanovskaya and edited by Rachelle Chen with executive producer Emma Foley. Katie Moose is our VP of content at Headgum. Thanks to Jason Matheny for our show Art and Ferris Manchi for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe, just maybe, we'll read it on a future episode.

[C]

That was a Hitgum Podcast hey, it's Nicole Byer here. Let me ask you something. Are you tired of endless swiping on dating apps? Fed up with awkward first dates and disappointing hookups? Girl, say welcome to why won't you date me? The podcast where I figure out love and how to suck less at dating. Each week, I get real with comedians, friends and celebrities about their love lives. We swap dating horror stories, awkward hookups, and dive into the messy and wonderful world of relationships. I've chatted with amazing guests like Conan O'Brien, Whitney Cummings, Sarah Silverman, Trixie Mattel, Tiffany Hadditch, and so many more. So whether you're single, mingling or booed up, there's something in it for everyone. Tune into why won't you date me with me, Nicole Byer and discover insights that might just save you from your next dating disaster. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and catch full video episodes on YouTube. New episodes drop every Friday.

[D]

Hi, I'm Caleb Herron, host of the so True podcast now on Headgun. Every week, me and my guests get into it and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions, and we also may or may not test their general trivia knowledge. Whether it's one of my sworn enemies like Brittany Broski or Drew A Fualo or my actual biological mother Kelly, my guests and I are just after the truth and if we find it, great. And if not, no worries. So subscribe to so True on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Cat, or wherever you get your podcasts, and watch video episodes on the so True with Caleb Herron YouTube channel. New episodes drop every Thursday. Love.