Matt Walsh

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Thanks Dad with Ego Nwodim" featuring Matt Walsh Hosted by Headgum | Released on January 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this heartfelt and humorous episode of Thanks Dad, Ego Nwodim welcomes Matt Walsh as her "Dad for the Day." The conversation delves into Matt's upbringing, his relationship with his late father, his career journey, and his experiences as a parent. Throughout the episode, Ego seeks practical advice from Matt, intertwining personal anecdotes with insightful discussions about family dynamics and personal growth.

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Early Life and Upbringing

Growing Up in Chicago

Matt Walsh begins by reminiscing about his childhood in Chicago, highlighting how his father was a significant influence despite their limited interactions. Raised in the bustling city environment, Matt shares stories of his father's work ethic and the communal family structure they upheld.

• Quote: "We sort of function like an agrarian farm family. We would all have jobs, and then whatever money we made, we would keep half and then kick half of it upstairs to the family, to the dad, to dad and mom." ([24:03])

Sibling Dynamics

As the middle child among seven siblings, Matt discusses the challenges and adjustments he had to make to carve out his own identity. His older brothers were focused on their interests, which led Matt to develop his passion for comedy as a way to stand out and gain attention.

• Quote: "I started cutting out pictures of cars. Like, I thought, oh, I'll be the car guy." ([18:06])

Parental Support and Values

Matt emphasizes the balance his father provided—supportive yet not overly present due to work commitments. His father's way of showing love was through actions, such as participating in family activities and supporting Matt's early comedic endeavors.

• Quote: "He would brag about you to his friends, you know, if you did something funny or cool or." ([23:09])

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Career in Comedy and Sales

Transition from Family Business to Comedy

Despite his father's encouragement, Matt struggled with the family business and eventually found his true calling in comedy. His transition was marked by perseverance and the reinforcement he received from early performances.

• Quote: "It helped me know what I didn't want to do. I felt like everything was very loving and wonderful, but very middle class and sort of stayed and... I was always interested in what else is there." ([19:29])

Improv and Upright Citizens Brigade

Matt credits the Upright Citizens Brigade (UCB) for shaping his comedic style and career. His involvement with UCB provided the foundation for his improv skills, which later influenced his personal and professional life.

• Quote: "UCB changed my life. Improv literally changed my life." ([14:39])

Challenges in Sales

Before fully committing to comedy, Matt briefly explored a career in sales within his father's company. He candidly discusses his lack of suitability for the role, highlighting the differences between the transactional nature of sales and the creative freedom he cherished in acting.

• Quote: "But doing it for a living, selling jobs, managing jobs, I was terrible." ([43:36])

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Fatherhood and Parenting

Adopting Parenting Styles

As a father, Matt strives to balance strictness with sensitivity. Influenced by his own upbringing, he acknowledges moments where he may have been too stern but emphasizes his commitment to ensuring his children do not fear him.

• Quote: "I don't ever want them to fear me." ([52:37])

Navigating Teenage Challenges

Matt shares insights into parenting teenagers, recognizing the complexities they bring compared to younger children. He discusses the difficulty in communicating effectively with teens who possess strong logic and opinions, often resorting to gut feelings when making decisions.

• Quote: "Sometimes I just have the gut feeling that this isn't a good scenario." ([56:39])

Balancing Emotions and Discipline

Drawing from his own experiences, Matt talks about the importance of apologizing when he oversteps, fostering an environment where his children feel heard and respected.

• Quote: "My gut is telling me this isn't a good scenario, and so I apologize that I don't have the words." ([56:39])

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Reflections and Advice

Embracing Vulnerability

Ego and Matt explore the concept of vulnerability within familial relationships. Matt relates his upbringing to his current parenting style, aiming to create a supportive and open environment for his children.

• Quote: "Vulnerability is a muscle you have to sort of build up." ([34:34])

Balancing Career and Family

Matt discusses the challenges of maintaining a career in the arts while being an engaged parent. His frequent travels for work necessitate a structured approach to parenting, ensuring his children feel supported despite his absence.

• Quote: "I was gone for weeks at a time... so it's weird to come back into a thing that's working really well." ([50:22])

Practical Advice for Listeners

Ego concludes the episode by seeking Matt's advice on personal matters, such as making decisions about getting tattoos. Matt offers thoughtful guidance, encouraging listeners to set personal boundaries and trust their instincts.

• Quote: "Explore a boundary for yourself and say, like, here's the region that I will never violate." ([62:17])

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Ego thanking Matt for his openness and wisdom. Matt briefly plugs his latest projects, including the movie The Good Half and his podcast Second in Command with Tim Simons. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding one's roots, embracing personal growth, and navigating the complexities of parenthood with humor and grace.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. On Family Contribution:

   • "We sort of function like an agrarian farm family. We would all have jobs, and then whatever money we made, we would keep half and then kick half of it upstairs to the family, to the dad, to dad and mom." ([24:03])

2. On Carving Out Identity:

   • "I started cutting out pictures of cars. Like, I thought, oh, I'll be the car guy." ([18:06])

3. On Parental Support:

   • "He would brag about you to his friends, you know, if you did something funny or cool or." ([23:09])

4. On Transition to Comedy:

   • "It helped me know what I didn't want to do. I felt like everything was very loving and wonderful, but very middle class and sort of stayed and... I was always interested in what else is there." ([19:29])

5. On Parenting Teens:

   • "Sometimes I just have the gut feeling that this isn't a good scenario." ([56:39])

6. On Setting Boundaries:

   • "Explore a boundary for yourself and say, like, here's the region that I will never violate." ([62:17])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Thanks Dad offers a profound look into Matt Walsh's life, blending humor with poignant reflections on family and personal development. Ego Nwodim successfully creates a space for authentic dialogue, providing listeners with both entertainment and valuable life lessons.

Transcript

[Matt Walsh]

This is a Headgun podcast. I don't know that we've ever unpacked the ball. I spent four years in Baltimore.

[Ego Nwodim]

Buddy deep, right? Yes. How did you like it? We haven't unpacked it.

[Matt Walsh]

I really liked it. We, of course, stayed in Fells Point, and so that was sort of our home base, and. But I got out a lot. I saw a lot of museums, like the industrial museum, all the Civil War battle sites.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, here. Did you go to the aquarium? Because that's kind of the. Okay, right. That's key. When I think of downtown Baltimore, when.

[Matt Walsh]

I had my kids up, we brought the kids out there, which probably relates to your show. Maybe. The first season, we had three kids, and they were under five, and so.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, my gosh.

[Matt Walsh]

I know. And it was, like, December. I'm like. I convinced Morgan. I'm like, oh, maybe it'll be fun. We'll have Baltimore Christmas. And so she packed everyone up, and we were staying at, like, a Homewood Suites, and it was really, really rough to spend. She was like, I'm out. There's nothing here I need. I'm gone. So she gave it, like, two weeks. We gave it, like, three weeks. But we put them in, like, a Presbyterian preschool, and they got to do a Christmas play. So there was some, like, fun.

[Ego Nwodim]

And we.

[Matt Walsh]

We went to Santa by the Water, which was a whole other hilarious, I'm sure.

[Ego Nwodim]

I love my hometown, but if you're not from there, I am. Like, how do you like it?

[Matt Walsh]

I do like it. No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not kicking Baltimore. I really enjoyed it. And we went to the Charles Theater all the time. And we ate. We ate out in Hamden, and we. We saw the. The lights Around Christmas and the toilet races.

[Ego Nwodim]

Aw. Yeah. Okay, well, did you know that? Wait a minute. Toilet races.

[Matt Walsh]

Toilet races in Hamden. Every fall, they have some street fest in. The highlight of it is people create go Karts where there has to be a toilet on it, and they have to ride the toilet down a hill.

[Ego Nwodim]

Really?

[Matt Walsh]

And they kind of. They deck them out like Burning man cars, and they wipe out. It's pretty fun.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, that is incredible. I've never heard of this, because. So I moved. I left Baltimore when I was 18 to go to college, and I went to college in la, and then I stayed, and so I never got to experience the fullness. When you're, like, a kid, you're obviously at the mercy of your parents. Parents and where they want to take you and show you and what they want you to do. So, like, I saw a lot of plays at the Arena Players Theater and I saw. I went to the Aquarium. We enjoyed the harbor from time to time. But I'm from Baltimore county, so that was like a we're going on a field trip type of thing. And so I didn't really even. People talk to me about Baltimore now. I'm like, oh, man, I don't really know it the way I would if I had been in my early 20s there.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, we did. We actually did the dolphin. That was another high. We did the dolphin show, like, four times with the kids.

[Ego Nwodim]

So it is really cool.

[Matt Walsh]

Sit in the splash zone. It's great.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's so cool. It's so cool. And then. Wait, you said, when you said that about Baltimore's. Remind me. Last night I had a caviar nugget from Cocodak, which is a restaurant in New York City that sells fried chicken. But they do fancy things, like sell what they call a golden nugget and has caviar on it. And it is, in fact, $40 a nugget. But I've done that. And last night someone said to me, there's place in Baltimore, I think it's bunnies, and it's a play on Playboy bunnies, and they also have a caviar nugget. Baltimore is up and it's. It's doing its thing, and it's very much a special city. So.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, and we had a crab. We would have a big crab boil or crab crack every year.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, yes.

[Matt Walsh]

I. I hosted it for the cast one year in my apartment, and then Tim hosted it, and we would just get, you know, a bushel of crab and get hammered and smack.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, it's the best. It's. Honestly, I still. I still order crab meat from Maryland. Like, as recently as. Like five days ago, ordered some crab from Maryland, made myself some crab cakes because I love crab without the work. But do not be mistaken, I will do the work. I will. I like.

[Matt Walsh]

I like the work because I think it reminds you, like, to slow down.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, yeah, that's beautiful.

[Matt Walsh]

You know, you kind of like, takes a little, like, peeling shrimp. I like the idea of, like, working a little bit.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, See, I like that.

[Matt Walsh]

See, it keeps me from being morbidly obese because you go.

[Ego Nwodim]

Because also you realize you're full before, you know. They say, like, you're supposed to. I think you're supposed to drink, eat really slowly and maybe drink while you eat, because then you get fuller faster. You realize you're full, but if you. I'm a person who, like, powers through my meals, can barely taste them, and then. I know. And you're shaking your head in disapproval.

[Matt Walsh]

And only because you seem like you're skinny still. I'm sure you're skinny.

[Ego Nwodim]

I think I'm pretty slim, but I also. It's like, what do my insides look like? You know? That's what I'm really concerned about.

[Matt Walsh]

They look like caviar nuggets.

[Ego Nwodim]

They look like caviar. All my arteries clogged by caviar. Caviar. I mean, if you are gonna die by a heart attack, I guess having arteries that are clogged by caviar, that'd be a great.

[Matt Walsh]

That'd be a great obituary. She died from caviar nugget abuse.

[Ego Nwodim]

I mean, that would be. And, you know, good for her. She really lived, though. She lived.

[Matt Walsh]

It's kind of a good legend. Like, oh, my God, That's. That's like Elvis eating fried peanut butter sandwiches.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. Which is, by the way, the fried things. Are you. Do you care about food at all? Like, what's your.

[Matt Walsh]

Are you kidding me? Okay.

[Ego Nwodim]

You care. Oh, my goodness. It's my whole personality.

[Matt Walsh]

Please, let's go.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wait. So the fried foods. And I'm saying wait, because in my mind, you have all the answers because you're my dad for the day. Like, I'm like, so, dad, explain to me, is that the premise?

[Matt Walsh]

Is that the premise of the show?

[Ego Nwodim]

None of my. Like, I would say at least 50% of my dads for the day don't know what the premise of the show is, but because they heard I was gonna be their daughter, they were like, I like that idea. The premise of the show is, you know what? Better yet, I should do my intro now. And I always do it backwards like this. And you'll hear everything, and if you have questions, I'll answer everything. Hi, guys. I'm Ego Odom, and welcome to. Thanks, Dad. I was raised by a single mom and don't have a relationship with my dad. So on this podcast, I'm sitting down with father figures who are old enough to be my dad. Hi, Matt. Or are just dads themselves. I wanted you to be offended that I said you were old enough to be my dad, because some people take the bait.

[Matt Walsh]

How old are you?

[Ego Nwodim]

I don't want to say. It's Hollywood.

[Matt Walsh]

Oh, my God. Really?

[Ego Nwodim]

I'm kidding. No, no. I'm 36 years. I'm kidding. I'm 36. I'm really 30. I'm not a Hollywood. 36. You would have guessed I'm 36.

[Matt Walsh]

No, you look great. You look perfect. You don't look anything like 36.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. All right. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Jesus. Now. Now I'm in trouble.

[Ego Nwodim]

Now you're in trouble. There's traps all over the place here. So on this podcast, I'm going to get to ask questions I've always wanted to ask a dad. Like, how do I know if the guy I'm dating is right for me? Or what should I look out for when buying a car? Or do you know how to teach me? Or better yet, can you teach me how to fix my tire should my car break down on the side of the road? And it's late at. And there's no street lights and I have no cell service, but there's a spare tire in my trunk and I need to change mine because now I have a flat. Could you do that, Matt? Would you be able to teach me the tire part?

[Matt Walsh]

I would say, with projects like that, like changing a tire, Start with the premise that, like, very improv forward.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Half the people in the world can do this, and you're probably smarter than half the people in the world.

[Ego Nwodim]

This is such sound advice. A few of my dads have said this. At least one of my dads for the day have said this. The notion that, like, hey, dumb people have done a thing you can, too. I've said that. There have been multiple times in my life where I feel like something's really challenging me. Someone was showing me, like, renderings today, and I was like, I'm sorry. I'm really having a trouble processing it, and I'm feeling really stupid. But I also know stupid people that you show this to also. They can figure it out. But is calling people stupid like calling people ugly? I just had a moment where I go, is that what that's like?

[Matt Walsh]

Well, I phrase it as, you're smarter than half the people.

[Ego Nwodim]

Start with that premise. Okay, okay, okay. I want to erase everything about calling people stupid. Nobody's stupid, Nobody's ugly. But I am smarter than half.

[Matt Walsh]

Well, it's based on the premise because a coach told me this in high school about something I was auditioning for something or trying out. He's like, just. Just your average. Right? You're going to be better than half the people who. Who go out for this thing.

[Ego Nwodim]

This is a mathematical thing. Okay, I respect that, and that makes perfect sense, but it's good. I also feel like anybody truly can go, I'm smarter than at least one of the people who have Figured this thing out not for everything in life, but for a lot of things.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay, you want to know? I'm going to give you another caviar nugget.

[Ego Nwodim]

Give me another caviar nugget. I love this.

[Matt Walsh]

For auditioning, just say, why not me?

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Because sometimes we get intimidated, like, oh, Tom Cruise is going to get this, or so. And so is going to get this. Or they're looking for a big name, but it invites you to go. But, yeah, but I'm good enough, so why not me?

[Ego Nwodim]

That's such a good question. That is. It is. But you know what's also interesting is that I remember days when I was really trying to pursue a career in acting, and it was not feeling like it was going well or going anywhere. And on the days when it really hit me and I was really frustrated, I'd be like, why not me? And I could actually answer that. And the why not is like, because I'm not Tom Cruise. And because I'm not.

[Matt Walsh]

Then keep saying it. Just keep saying it.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, go through the list. It's almost like that thing that. It's a way to, like, process anxiety, where you go, okay, what's your anxiety? You name the anxiety and go, okay, and if that happens, then what? And you keep going, then what? And then what? And then what? So, okay, so I go watch. Not me. Until I exhaust myself. And I'm sort of like, all right, either I'm tired of asking the question and I'm going to go for it, or I've reached the end of the rope on my answering.

[Matt Walsh]

Imagine yourself walking in the room and going, guys, come on. Why not me?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Yeah, that's.

[Matt Walsh]

That's the intention.

[Ego Nwodim]

First of all, back to in person auditions. But I would love to walk in a room and actually say that out loud. Hey, guys, any questions? Only question I have is, why not me? You know, because the casting director is.

[Matt Walsh]

Going to ask you, but put the emphasis on not. Like, why not me?

[Ego Nwodim]

Why not me? Come on.

[Matt Walsh]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. And then arms up. You gotta do the arms up. Really? Be cool. Arms up. Yeah, that robotic arm. Okay, now I need to do your intro. I've meandered. It's what I do, Matt. I'm a meanderer.

[Matt Walsh]

It's fine.

[Ego Nwodim]

And then my engineers do an amazing job of helping me and piecing everything together. But, guys, you know my next guest from Veep the Hangover, Bad Santa, and Most recently, Apple TV's Manhunt, he is a founding member of the Upright Citizens Brigade. I smile so big. At that. Please welcome my dad for the day. Matt Wa.

[Matt Walsh]

Hi, everyone.

[Ego Nwodim]

Hello, everyone.

[Matt Walsh]

Dad hats.

[Ego Nwodim]

Dad heads.

[Matt Walsh]

Dad heads.

[Ego Nwodim]

Dad heads. And dadless heads. Because I'm a dadless head.

[Matt Walsh]

Hello, Dadless heads.

[Ego Nwodim]

I am so excited to have you. Thank you for being here. This is huge for me.

[Matt Walsh]

I'm excited to connect with you. I haven't seen you in years.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's been a very long. Kind of like my dad. My real dad.

[Matt Walsh]

Wow.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Is this transference? Is this what they call transference in the psych game?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes, I think so. I think that's what the phenomenon is called. Phenomena. Phenomenon. See, I'm nervous. I'm seeing my dad for the first time today. You. Oh, no. You leaned in. You were like, juicy. You're gonna see your dad. Matt, I have something terrible to tell you. My dad died last summer. In addition to not having a relationship with him, he died last summer. But it's not sad. And I'm not doing a thing that I think comedy people are known to do or accused of doing, which is being like. It's just not. It's not sad. But I'm actually really in deep pain. I'm not in deep pain. I actually have found that lots of people don't have a relationship with their dads. Mine was, to some extent, by choice. And so it's. You know, it's actually okay. It's okay. So I don't want you to worry.

[Matt Walsh]

About me, but I'm not worried about you. But thank you for saying that.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. Just in case, you know. Cause you seem sweet and endearing and tender.

[Matt Walsh]

I have. I have friends with no relationship with their dads. And they're great people, and they're very happy.

[Ego Nwodim]

And they're happy. Right? It's possible. I feel like movies and TV shows have suggested part of my desire to do this was to one start conversation. I love the conversation around it. But also to go, and here's another side. You know, sometimes people are totally fine to not have a relationship with their dad. And he doesn't have to knock on the door of your suburban home 20 years later with his bags and go, I'm really sorry. And then we cut to, he's in the house. After the commercial break. Cut to, he's in the house. We're having a conversation. It's fraught. You know, You've seen the scenes.

[Matt Walsh]

Who's playing that dad in your Lifetime movie, by the way?

[Ego Nwodim]

That dad, if he would so have me, I'm gonna pick Denzel Washington.

[Matt Walsh]

Oh, my God. He's old Enough to be your dad?

[Ego Nwodim]

He's old enough to be my dad. I would pick Denzel if I could have, but he did recently say there aren't many roles that he is interested in playing anymore. My dad in a film, maybe, right?

[Matt Walsh]

Maybe.

[Ego Nwodim]

You think I could convince him? Maybe, yeah. Cause why not you, Denzel? But, Matt. Okay, I'm so excited to have you because first of all, the upright citizens brigade of it all. And two, I haven't seen you in a very long time. UCB changed my life. When you mentioned Charles Theater earlier, I think my brain short circuited because I was like, oh, I am doing an improv program with kids in Baltimore. All because I discovered improv through ucb. So I connected with my high school teacher, and he has kids now, which is crazy to me. I'm like, when did you have children? But anyway, he has kids now, and he and I are adding essentially improv to Baltimore city Schools curriculum a little bit over time. Yeah, I'm so excited. And so we got BIG involved, which is Baltimore Improv Group. Two weeks ago, I was in Baltimore and we conducted a bunch of workshops with kids and teachers. It was really cool. And BIG is down the street from Charles Theater. So Michelle from BIG and Emily from BIG did these workshops with me. This is all very inside baseball, but anyway, people, educate. Educate yourselves. But Michelle kept mentioning to each school we went to, she would go, you guys know Charles Theater, right? Okay, well, we're a couple doors down from Charles Theater. Baltimore Improv Group. Anyway, Matt, you don't even know you've changed my life, but now I'm telling you, you changed my life. Improv literally changed my life. And that's how I decided to take it to Baltimore. And I said that exact sentence to my high school teacher. And then he started taking an improv class. And he involved Baltimore Improv Group because he started taking a class there because he said, that's so strange. You think improv changed your life? And then he got curious, and then he's like, I. And now let's put it in schools.

[Matt Walsh]

So that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. Thank you. I actually told you that whole thing just so you would give me praise. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But thank you. I am very, very excited to get to do that. And so I get to also say thank you to you. And UCB being the space where I got to come up is really, really cool and special to me. And those people are still friends. I made my community.

[Matt Walsh]

Have you done some classes with the Kids.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. I've done workshops. So last summer when the strike hit is when I was like, I should try this. And then this summer, we did some as well.

[Matt Walsh]

So was it fun?

[Ego Nwodim]

It's so fun. And seeing them come out of their shells, it's such a vulnerable thing to do improv to begin with, but then also to be like, I'm not a performer and I'm a kid, and I'm gonna do this in front of my peers is its own other thing. But they're amazing. And it's been really cool to see teachers get excited about it, too, which is what we kind of. Our mission the last two weeks was, two weeks ago was to do. So I just wanna thank you first before we get into dad stuff. You have a dad, though I believe.

[Matt Walsh]

He is not living. But I had a dad.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. You had a dad. I have a dad. Yeah, I guess it's. You had a dad? Would you say you don't have a dad anymore?

[Matt Walsh]

I guess. Ask me the question.

[Ego Nwodim]

You have a dad? Question mark.

[Matt Walsh]

I don't have a dad. My dad died 10 years ago.

[Ego Nwodim]

Man. I have a. I have a. If my mom passed, I have a mom. I had a mom, man. Yeah. I don't know how you do that, but that's your answer. You had a dad. He passed 10 years ago. Where did you guys live when you were growing up?

[Matt Walsh]

Chicago. The city proper. And then when I was, like, 12, we moved to the burbs.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And so, yeah, Chicago. Chicagoland.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. Was he very supportive of your artistic endeavors and, like, your pursuit of comedy?

[Matt Walsh]

He was. I was blessed with encouragement. I was one of seven kids, was the. I was the middle child, and my dad was, like, maybe a frustrated actor. He was a ham. Love. If there was ever a microphone, it's like, oh, no, please, dad. He was that guy. And he was also the guy that would, like, tell you a joke and start laughing before the punchline, which I always found really endearing.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

That, to me, was the best part of the joke.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

So he was that guy, and he would bring. When I first started, like yourself, I thought these shows I was doing were good. And then in retrospect, I'm like, oh, my God, they're terrible. And he would bring neighbors down. He would do field trips to come see a show. He was very supportive. Very supportive.

[Ego Nwodim]

That's incredible. And so being the middle child, I feel like the trope there is that you guys feel ignored or sort of like you could be there, not be there, and no one would really notice. Did you feel that growing up as a middle child, or was that not your experience?

[Matt Walsh]

I think so. I think the trope holds true. I think it's about carving out real estate for your personality, is how I would describe it. I had an older brother who knew what he wanted to do. He loved airplanes. Became a pilot at 16, ended up flying the triple seven for United. He was always that guy. So when we shared a room, he had the whole room with model planes and posters and things like that. And he was, like, encroached, literally encroaching on my part of the room.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

My mom reminded me. I re. I had complained. I was like, his planes are everywhere. I don't get any space. And then I started. In reaction to that, I started cutting out pictures of cars. Like, I thought, oh, I'll be the car guy.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, I want. We're gonna be on the ground. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And then. And I would build models. And so I'm like, oh, this is how I carve out my space. But eventually I carved out sort of the artistic clown comedy personality, if you will. Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

Do you think you would have done that and that would have been the case that you pursued comedy, the arts, if you didn't feel like your space was being encroached on in that way by your brother?

[Matt Walsh]

It shaped my personality. I think one theory is perhaps in life you find something you're passionate about, and then you try to find a way to make a living. Like, that's one of the things we do as human beings, certainly in a capitalist culture. Right. And so it helped me know what I didn't want to do. I felt like everything was very loving and wonderful, but very middle class and sort of stayed and. And not safe. It sounds pretentious, but whatever. I was always, like, interested in what else is there, like, getting out of this. And so I discovered one way of making my older. I had three older brothers. Making my older brothers laugh so they wouldn't perhaps beat up on me.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

I had a talent for that. I was willing to do really dumb stuff and fall down or whatever.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And then that became a way of identifying perhaps. And this is all my bogus psychology, by the way, but perhaps.

[Ego Nwodim]

Listen, I'm here for it.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, you can. You can poke holes.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

You know, and then in seventh grade, I was sort of the funny guy. And I think that gave me confidence with girls because I could make girls laugh maybe. Or at least goes a long way. Yeah, it does. And I. Because I wasn't going to be, like, the dominant Athlete. And I, you know, and then I was a crack up with my friends and that gave me some self esteem. And then the downside of that is it wasn't channeled. Like, I wasn't courageous enough to like, go after theater and take theater classes in high school and perform because it wasn't like, oh, that's not really cool or whatever. I don't know what my judgment was.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

But eventually I found my way into some acting. Once I got into, like the last year of high school, we got to do a variety show that my friends recruited me for. And that was basically like Saturday Night Live. We got to write sketches and perform them. And then as, you know, as a performer, the power of that to, like, create material.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Then get that reception from an audience is like magic.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. That feedback feels. It's. There's nothing like it. It's like drugs. I say, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And then in addition to that, it's the status afterwards. People go, you were so funny in the variety show.

[Ego Nwodim]

And it's like, oh, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

All that reinforcement perhaps encouraged me to continue. And I don't know if it narrowed my personality to pursue the arts, but it certainly kept me going.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. You say your dad was really supportive, but it also, you didn't want to take theater necessarily in high school because it's like, that's not the cool thing to do. Did you ever have conversations with him about finding your way or your path in those early years?

[Matt Walsh]

I don't think so. I think the encouragement was in small doses because there were seven of us and he was. He was running a business and he was working all day and probably getting drinks with other salesmen at night. So, yeah, it wasn't. There wasn't a lot of FaceTime. But there were. It was there. You know, the love was there.

[Ego Nwodim]

Sure.

[Matt Walsh]

So the cultivation of my pursuit was sort of on my own.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

I think.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. When you say the love was there, can you elaborate a little more what you mean by that? I think I know what you mean. But what did it look like for you and what made you feel like. I know it's there.

[Matt Walsh]

I think love as received by me was, you know, tradition. Celebrating my birthdays, family vacations, holidays. He was big on church, he was Catholic. So I think his. His way of, like, teaching me about the world is saying, like, it's all in that room. Go in there and listen to the Bible and sing and. And he would never administer his view of the world. But he's like, that's it. If you do that, you're a good kid, you know, and so I think that's symbolically, was something he enjoyed. So. And. And I think, like, he was playful at times when we had him, you know, he was silly. He could be silly and funny. So, yeah, that's my interpretation of how I knew I was loved and encouraging. Like, he would brag about you to his friends, you know, if you did something funny or cool or. I used to always have jobs since I was in, like, fifth grade. I had a paper route and, yeah, I saved up $500 in, like, I was. We lived near a golf course when we moved to the suburbs.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And I would shag balls from the weeds.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Sell them to golfers. And I saved up like 500 and $600 and I bought a certificate of deposit that would accrue interest. And he would brag about. He's like this kid, you know? So, yeah, those are signs of, like, feeling special and being seen.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. Right. Now, working since you were five years.

[Matt Walsh]

Old, though fifth grade.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, maybe you said fifth grade and my brain said five and said five years old. Okay. So working since you were in fifth grade, that's a unique experience to be like in fifth grade. I want to be working. I want to be making my own money. Where do you think that came from?

[Matt Walsh]

We sort of function like an agrarian farm family. We. We would all have jobs, and then whatever money we made, we would keep half and then kick half of it upstairs to the family, to the dad, to dad and mom.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wait, no way.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

You're being serious.

[Matt Walsh]

Dead serious.

[Ego Nwodim]

So wait, then what would they do with your half?

[Matt Walsh]

They would pay bills, they would buy our clothes, they would take care of, keep the lights on. It was a sense of communal. We're in this together. It was almost like the family is the business.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And so you all. You're not gonna freeload, you're gonna contribute, and you're also gonna go to school and do sports. But, like, I had busboy jobs. I had. I set up chairs at the church on the weekend. I washed dishes and, you know, just pick up and hustling jobs. And it was kind of like, I guess we probably never had allowance, like, a lot. Like, you want money, you're gonna do something for it. You're gonna go get a job or find a way to make money.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wow. Did you like that when you're growing up, or is it just a sort of thing where it's like, oh, I knew.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was so cool. And I took great pride in like kicking money upstairs to the, to the top.

[Ego Nwodim]

That's.

[Matt Walsh]

It just made me feel like an adult and like whatever. Like. And sometimes like If I made 18 in a paper out, he would just say, give me five. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, it wasn't. It was more the sense, the rough sense of you're going to contribute, we all contribute. We're all in this together and that's how we succeed. And to this day our family is very tight. There's seven of us and we still all get along, which is very rare.

[Ego Nwodim]

Very rare. Very rare.

[Matt Walsh]

And mostly props to my mom. Like she's not in the dad show.

[Ego Nwodim]

But that's okay. We can talk about mom too. Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

The reason, the reason the glue, the. Everything was mom, she was everything. Dad was the big fish.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And he was a kind of a showman.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

But mom was the glue, you know?

[Ego Nwodim]

Really? So did she instill like the importance of staying connected and staying together and really being, treating family with some sanctity? It was, that. Was that her thing or do you think that that's something they both instilled?

[Matt Walsh]

What's the, what's the love language where you like do acts?

[Ego Nwodim]

Acts of service. Acts of service.

[Matt Walsh]

That's like, she's all about acts of service. Like when I was a struggling comedian like yourself, when you landed in la, let's say, and I was living in Chicago with no money and doing like moving jobs or painting, whatever.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

I would go home to visit the family and then she would send me home with like two 5 pound tubs of peanut butter and two frozen lasagnas and like, you know, boxes of laundry. And that's her. That's her in a nutshell, like planning and taking care of you. And I always tell the story of like Sunday nights we would all get together in the kitchen because there were seven kids.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Four boys, three girls.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And the boys would always eat like two sandwiches at lunch. So we would make like 75 sandwiches on a Sunday night. Assembly line style. Baloney, peanut butter, cheese and ham.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Mustard, Throw em in the freezer. So then Monday morning came around. Just reach in the freezer, grab two sandwiches, throw em in a bag, grab an apple.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wow. And that's your school lunch. That's incredible. I am really taken aback. I know that I was like very rare, very rare. But I'm like, I'm really taken aback by the notion that you guys are all still really close. But it does sound like by design and not just in telling you to Operate like a unit and treat family like it's sacred. But I mean, you worked together.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, it was like a network, like a positive network. It was like a. It was a safety net. But it wasn't like super lovey dovey. It was kind of like Irish Catholic, a little cold. We weren't like affectionate so much, but it was there and it was reliable and it was steady.

[Ego Nwodim]

I resonate so much with. I felt like the love was there for me for sure, growing up, but all in action, not so much articulated. Like, I'm not running out the door to school and my mom's like, have a great day. I love you. That's not happening. All my needs are met. And, you know, I'm getting to do hobbies and I'm taken care of and I'm getting to be playful and supported in my hobbies and those endeavors. But I'm like, no. No one was saying I love you then. I wasn't getting kissed on the cheek before bed. And then I love you. Was your dad one to say I love you?

[Matt Walsh]

Never.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Never. There's a towards when he got older or when I. We all got older, obviously, but just.

[Ego Nwodim]

Just him.

[Matt Walsh]

Let's just assume time goes on and we age.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

From that premise.

[Ego Nwodim]

From that. We're assuming as much. We're assuming premise again. More improv talk, guys. I hope people are picking up.

[Matt Walsh]

I told my. I, yeah, I told my mom I loved her. I think in high school, I was reading some like, Leo Biscalia book or something and. And it was never. It was there, but it was never named. I remember how hard it was to, like, verbalize it, but I think I was the first person in the family to do that.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, my gosh. Matt. Same in my nuclear family. I introduced. We're gonna start saying I love you. I think I was like, why do we not. I mean, totally. I feel loved, I feel cared for, I feel supported. I met with kindness. But is there a reason we're not just saying it?

[Matt Walsh]

How did you bring that up?

[Ego Nwodim]

I think I just said it to someone one day. I think I said it to my mom and she's not gonna leave you hanging. I feel like she was maybe taken aback and I'm not remembering the exact time and the exact moment I did it, but I do remember the. I was like a senior in college, maybe a junior. And I've said this before, but I was listening. Big Brother by Kanye west and on Graduation had just come out that year, that album. And he says people never get the Flowers while they can still smell them. And I don't want to be like, oh, a song made me change how I operate. But I did go, yeah, that is strange at a funeral that it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm crying. And I loved this person. And they were so. But I'm like, tell people. Yeah, tell them. That was right around when I. But it was college, and I remember being home for the summer, hearing that. And I go, yeah, I'm gonna just say it. And so I don't know how she responded, but I certainly know she didn't leave me hanging. I'm sure there's. There was probably a level of like, what? And then. And then, you know, reciprocated, but. Cause we don't say that out loud.

[Matt Walsh]

Was it hard for you? Were you nervous when you dropped it?

[Ego Nwodim]

I would say a touch nervous just being like. But. But barely. Like, I would say, more than anything, it was like, I want to change course in this. In the way we do this or operate with saying, I love you. But I think there was a level of like, well, what's this gonna do? But I'm a little bit like that, Matt, too, where I go, what would happen if I. I don't know, did this thing and drop it into this social dynamic? I know we're not. The social contract says we're not supposed to do this. But why? Speaking of psychology. But why? So what if I did do that? How would everyone react? Cause there's. For me, there also is a real curiosity around people's reaction to things. So I was a little nervous, but I think more so I was like. Like curious, like, what would happen, you know, I was like, I want to change this and what would happen? We'll see what happens.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. I remember, for me, I was. I was kind of scared because I think that sort of emotion or lovey dovey ness was very. It almost felt like weakness or something.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. I thought it was weak to cry Till I was 19. I remember. That's weak. You don't cry.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, yeah. Too much work. We got too many things to do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Exactly. No, no, no. Wrap it up. Get it. Patch it up. So when you did say you were the first one to break it in your family, you did. How was that received?

[Matt Walsh]

I think my mom got choked up and she was like. I don't even think she looked at me. She was like, I love you too. And then so slowly I broke her down. Even now, I can feel, like, the challenge of that, you know?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Do your kids in Your nuclear family. Now you're with your wife, Morgan, and your kids. Do you guys say I love you? Is this explicit? Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

All the time.

[Ego Nwodim]

All the time.

[Matt Walsh]

It's not a big deal. It's kind of normal and pedestrian and it was never a thing. Morgan's also very much more affectionate and verbal and. Yeah, but so that a lot of that comes from her, too.

[Ego Nwodim]

So do you think you, like, found yourself drawn to that sort of effusiveness because it was maybe lacking in childhood. And I'm not trying to, like, psychologically assess this. I'm not trying to do that. But I am, like, I'm curious. I go. If, in your own estimation, I do.

[Matt Walsh]

Think I've always been drawn to the other. I don't know if that sounds pretentious, but, like, pursuing arts or going outside of what I thought was expected and continuing that down the road, I. What I found attractive beyond her physical beauty is her completely different vibe and background. And so that, to me, felt interesting. And that made me curious. Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Now you said back to your page. Did you call him dad, by the way? Was that his dad?

[Matt Walsh]

I called him dad. And so. But I started saying it to my mom. I don't. I don't know that I say it to all my siblings now, by the way.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Still, like some of the siblings. I don't. Some. I do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wait, how do you make that distinction? Yeah, tell me, because it's probably. You probably can sense, like, this is going to be too awkward.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

Is that what. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, yeah. Like my one sister, Annie. She'll never listen to this. I feel like I'm out of here. She's.

[Ego Nwodim]

Well, you don't know. Annie could be a fan of me for all you freaking know, Matt.

[Matt Walsh]

She might. She might be.

[Ego Nwodim]

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Please. But please. Well, she's busy.

[Matt Walsh]

She's just busy. It's no disrespect, your value as an entertainer.

[Ego Nwodim]

I am kidding. I'm kidding.

[Matt Walsh]

But she doesn't like hugs even. So every time I see her, I make a big. Like, I'm going in. I can make a big thing of hugging her, but she's like someone. I probably have never said, I love you. But we. We're good. Like, we could all great.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. But it's.

[Matt Walsh]

It's a lot for her. And then for my dad, I would say on phone calls, specifically, I would say I love you at the end of the call and he would always say, thank you.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. Which is. That feels like the ultimate rejection it wasn't.

[Matt Walsh]

It was. I. I loved it. I loved. I loved it more than if he would say I.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Because I knew he heard me.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And that's all he could do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

For whatever reason.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And I actually used that. I put that in a movie I did with Nick Jonas where he says, I love you to me, and I play his dad, and I go, thank you. Because that's all he was ready for. That's all he could do. And because it was so specific to him, it was a million times more interesting than just saying the standard I love you, because I knew. I knew it. He didn't need to say I wasn't doing it to hear it from him.

[Ego Nwodim]

Ah, okay.

[Matt Walsh]

You know what I mean?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, absolutely. You're remarkably evolved in that regard, if I might say so myself, because I think. I think because it's unique to me. But being vulnerable is scary, and that's why a lot of people don't do it. And it's a muscle you have to sort of build up that, like, okay, I was vulnerable. The vulnerability I expressed was reciprocated, and that felt good. And, okay, I feel like you do, like, a free fall, then it's like someone caught you, or you're vulnerable, and it's not reciprocated. Reciprocated the way you hoped or intended. And that feels like I was free falling and someone let me fall and hit the ground. But in your case, you're like, I'm expressing this because I want to express this. How you respond is. I don't want to say neither here nor there, because you enjoy the thank you versus him saying a forced I love you too. But how you respond is your deal and your prerogative. I'm sharing a thing with you that I would just like to share with you. You and how you respond is how you respond. I just. I think my initial reaction, if I. If I said I love you to someone and they said thank you, I'd go, oh, oh. Not out loud inside, because I'd play really cool outside. But I'd be like, oh, my friend and I do a bit where we do that. My friend Trevon and I do a full bit where either one of us will say, I love you, and we both know to go, thank you. And we both laugh and laugh and laugh about it.

[Matt Walsh]

Maybe on the. Maybe on the. I don't remember the first one. Like, maybe on the first one, I might have been like, oh, okay, yeah. But then I still did it, and then it. It became his thing.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And then it became our thing. I don't know, but I'm sure on the first one, it was like I probably did feel vulnerable, but I can't remember.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, yeah. And also, so many thank yous later, you're like, this is what dad does. This is what I recall.

[Matt Walsh]

It was almost like I wanted to hear it.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

As long as he says thank you, you're good. I screamed I love you to my brother when I was leaving Baltimore a couple weeks ago. And he's the. He's the oldest, and he's the one I still have not. Not been able to get to say I love you too. I've cracked everyone.

[Matt Walsh]

And how many siblings in your family?

[Ego Nwodim]

I have three siblings, so I have two older brothers and an older sister.

[Matt Walsh]

Okay.

[Ego Nwodim]

And in the Uber, I thought maybe with an audience, he'll pretend for this Uber driver that he's going to say it back. I go, maybe I'll get him now. Maybe, just maybe, Trigger. And I actively thought this. I was like, he really might not. I go, wonder what he does if I do it this way. Uber driver's here. We're in suburbia, and I'm about to take the train back to New York. Haven't seen you in a while. And I go, lovey, I love you. And he was like, you too.

[Matt Walsh]

I probably got a U2 from my dad once in a while, too.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. You just go, damn. Okay, that. Not that either.

[Matt Walsh]

I think that's. Now you want to get the U2 like, you should be gunning for the. You, too.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Matt Walsh]

You don't need I love you anymore.

[Ego Nwodim]

No, you're right.

[Matt Walsh]

That's amazing. That's an amazing thing to get from your brother.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's huge. It is. Especially. I mean, I'm the youngest, and I do feel like by the time. It's interesting, you're the youngest boy of your siblings, and I feel like by the time parents get to their youngest, I just find us to be. Not to be, like, on the youngest sibling or youngest boy panel here, but I'm like, yeah, there's something about, like, carving your own path. And that also means going, I understand what the temperature here is in this family. I just wonder what would happen if I move this. The thermostat in this direction or that direction.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

And so it's totally fine. I know my brother loves me, and, you know, if I text it, he'll go, ditto. And then sometimes I won't even, because I go, somehow I'm still gunning, but I'm Going to. I'm going to continue to gun for the U2s, because that, I think, was progress. I go, okay, we've moved beyond ditto. And now he's expressing two words.

[Matt Walsh]

And then I was thinking too, because. So your mom is a single mom.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Matt Walsh]

With four kids.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Matt Walsh]

If there were two parents, that's like eight children she's taken care of. So that's why there's not a lot of emotion in big families, like similar backgrounds. There's too much to get done.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And there's really not a lot, especially. So she's basically got eight children, but she's only got four. Yeah, my parents had. My mom had seven.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

But she was kind of on her own, too.

[Ego Nwodim]

Sure.

[Matt Walsh]

But there's not a lot of time to administer all that touchy feely stuff. There's too much stuff. The workload is just too big.

[Ego Nwodim]

Matt. I really respect that because as a person who's like, very much enjoying vulnerability, enjoying going to therapy and having the space to explore all the ways I feel about the Monday I just had and the interaction I just had at the coffee shop and go really deep on that, I'm like, what a privilege, though, because I have the room and the space to do that. You know, unpacking emotionally in any way or taking the lid off of your emotions, it can create a mess. And some people do not have time to clean that up. They have practical, everyday things that need to get done that they're like, I don't have the space nor the time that that would require for me to really allow it to be productive or the tools.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, if you do open it up now, what do I do with this?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. So I have total empathy for. And I was one of these people. And then I realized, like, oh, you do have the time. Ego. You're in a different position. But, like, I kind of am operating in the world this way. And it's sort of working so far as I know. Right. Because a little ignorance is bliss. I'm a little terrified of what happens if I create any sort of mess or we unwrap the package. That's what I used to say. I was like, if we unwrap the package, think about all the tape, all the wrapping paper. You don't know if there's a little like a Styrofoam crouton looking things. I'm like, who? No one has time to clean this up, so let's. We have to go to work. But anyway, it's such a privilege. Now, you said your mom was sort of on her own because there were seven kids. Kids. Then your dad, who was working a lot, he was a salesman. Of what? Variety. He.

[Matt Walsh]

He owned a business that moved heavy machinery. So it was like, imagine the New York Times wanted to tear out their old printing presses, sell them to a factory in Korea, and then install new ones. He would handle every bit of that job.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

They would get guys that disassemble it, park, crate it up, ship it, install the new one, everything it needs.

[Ego Nwodim]

So he would.

[Matt Walsh]

He would sell jobs to factories, and then he also ran the company. So.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Did you ever go to work with him? Was like, take your child to work day a thing with back then?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I did go to work on the weekends. Like the family business. We would just go to his office so he could work, and we would play with the phones and run around the warehouse. And then when I was in my starving improv era, between, like, painting jobs and moving jobs, I was so broke. My brother, who was working for my dad, he's like. He's like, you know, you're not going to be any more funnier if you're broke. So basically go make money with that. Because my dad would always, like, love to have you in there. Because he would have loved me to be, you know, in the family business, but he also respected what I did.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And then I did it for a year, and I. I wasn't really good at it. I was fine. I didn't really like it.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, I had.

[Matt Walsh]

I had to, like, kind of dress like a business guy. It was. It was kind of. And then I. Then I auditioned for. But I was still doing theater at night. Like, I didn't quit on the nights, but I. I. Yeah, the goal was, like, make a nest egg and then find a way out. And then I auditioned for the Second City Touring Company.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And I got that job, and I ran back to my dad's, and I'm like, I'm up. I'm up.

[Ego Nwodim]

You're like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm so done.

[Matt Walsh]

He's like, no, you can see them. No, no, I'm out. I'm out.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's funny that he was like, you know, you can stay, because you said I wasn't really good at the job. When you were, like, kind of up at the job. How was he as a boss?

[Matt Walsh]

No, he. I treaded water. Like, I didn't have a natural affinity. Basically, salesman is, like, in cold call. Imagine, like, there was an industrial Yellow Pages back in the. Let's say early 90s when I was there. And I just opened it up and started at a. And called like Acme Springs and then Acme Piping and then. And like, hey, do you guys have any moving jobs? I'm a Taft Contracting. Yeah, I just started doing. Because I didn't have any accounts myself. And yeah, that's how I approached it. And lo and behold, I dug up some work for accounts that never existed. But I didn't know, I didn't know how to manage jobs. I didn't, I didn't know how to bid them. And it was, it's a hard, it's interest. It's interesting to tour a factory and see how things made. Like I, I worked at one of my summer jobs. I worked in the Purina Dog food factory in Kankakee, Illinois. Right. Crazy. I worked in the old Oscar Meyer plant in Chicago right across from Cabrini Green. I worked, I worked. So I had all these like International Harvester. I worked there. So those were like all labor jobs. And then I would go with my dad sometimes and just see how they made like windshields. You see an oven that's been making glass for a hundred years because if they turn it off, the, the whole thing will crack, you know, so you see these means of production and it's interesting. But doing it for a living, selling jobs, managing jobs, I was terrible.

[Ego Nwodim]

Which is interesting because in my mind I'm like, I feel like most comedians, if they want it to be, and performers, if you wanted to be a salesperson, that would be a thing you'd have a knack for if you wanted to. But I know it also requires the like, okay, I'm going to buckle down and do this thing.

[Matt Walsh]

But in, in an actor's life, let's say it's mostly only transactional in the audition room. Like we're comfortable being funny and up because it makes us feel safe, I think.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

But we're not like, oh, if I make him laugh, he'll give me a job on tv. When we're at the bar, we're just comfortable in that zone. But like, being a salesman is like, imagine you had to hang out with the casting agent and have lunches with them all the time and then like go to their kids ball game. Like you curate these relationships and it's a lot of. It's kind of transactional. Like the friendship is very transactional and you maintain it in a way that's like hard for me unless I really like the person.

[Ego Nwodim]

That makes sense. Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

Not that we don't all like. Of course we work with people that we don't like and we figure a way to do it. But in sales, that's everything.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. You couldn't really be like, okay, I like this person. I don't like this person. It'd be like, I don't like this person. But they could be a potential client. So you're gonna have go get a beer with him after work today.

[Matt Walsh]

And you can't do your real comedy bits with them.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, that's true. Cuz. Yeah. You're like, we don't actually have chemistry here. You just have money that I'm trying to get to. And I have to pretend that is acting. But it seems painful. A little bit. It seems a little painful.

[Matt Walsh]

And then you would be throwing out jokes and they're not laughing and you're like, I don't know what to do here.

[Ego Nwodim]

Did your dad have friends that were not into any way involved in his business?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, all his best friends were the guys from the neighborhood he grew up in, like a Southside Chicago. They would cut school and go to the racetrack. They were those kids.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, okay.

[Matt Walsh]

So all his friends from that era, from the bar, from the. They would go to Bears games on a bus together. He kept a lot of those relationships. A lot of his old friends were still there.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, that's very cool. One last thing before I move on to how you were as a parent about your dad that you had. Would you say there's anything that he imparted to you that you hold on to and want to now impart to your children? Piece of advice, the way he lived, what he believed.

[Matt Walsh]

I think some verbalized versions of, you know, family is everything. Like, be good to your family. Take care of your family. You know, his priority was his family. Family.

[Ego Nwodim]

For as much.

[Matt Walsh]

For as much as he was around, it was his priority. And I think from like, action, he was like, randomly kind to the most unlikely people. Like, he had this like, soft heart because he was pretty, like conservative politically, you know.

[Ego Nwodim]

Sure.

[Matt Walsh]

But he would like stop on the side of the road and like, help somebody change a tire or like, like stick up for a. We did a Daily show bit.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

In Chicago. My dad was hanging out. He was like 70 maybe at the time. And long story short, there was a guy whose little 5 year old kept ruining the shot. Like, I'm doing a standup parody piece, whatever. And the. And the director's like. And my dad's like, hey, why don't you. We're trying to. He spoke Up.

[Ego Nwodim]

Why don't you try to.

[Matt Walsh]

We're trying to. He was speaking up for the director.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And he's like, why don't you control your kid? We're trying to, like, we. We're trying to get this done. The guy's like, hey, why don't you mind your own business? And my dad gets up. He's like, you want. He ready to.

[Ego Nwodim]

Ready to go. 70 years old, he's ready to throw hands. I love that.

[Matt Walsh]

I'm like, dad, stop.

[Ego Nwodim]

Dad, dad, dad. He's got your back. That's true comedy. I've got your back. For real?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. That's incredible. 70 years old. Had you ever seen that side of him before? The. Like, I'm ready to fight.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. He had a temper, and I don't think I saw it. There were stories when he was married with kids where he did get in fights.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

And he told me once he. There was one time, I don't know, somebody said something. You know, they're at a bar or something. Somebody said something to my mom, and they took it outside. And he said it was like. Like I was. It was so, like, rough, like, getting in a fight and, like, to near death. He's like, I can't do this anymore.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. He's like, okay, I think we're done. But at 70, I will do one. I'll dibble, dabble a little more if I need to so we can get this damn shot for the Daily Show.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

So did you know you wanted to be a dad?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I think so. I think I had to get my act together. Okay. Whatever that entailed.

[Ego Nwodim]

Can I ask what that does entail, Matt did. You were talking about financially, emotionally?

[Matt Walsh]

I think, like, for people like us, it's sort of career. It's sort of like creative passion.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

You burn through that and then you settle into, like, probably emotional maturity. It's probably the last part of it to come. And then along the way, you have relationships where you learn how to slightly become a better partner, perhaps, or.

[Ego Nwodim]

Or.

[Matt Walsh]

Or pick a better partner, but not in a therapeutic, focused, mapped out way. You just sort of improvise as we do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. Right.

[Matt Walsh]

So those are the things I would say is how you get your act together.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. So then by the time your kids came into the picture. So you're married to Morgan, kids come into the picture, she's pregnant. Were you like, okay, I feel ready. I feel like we act is together. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

As hokey as it sounds, I think when we met, I was a better version of Myself. And I was ready to be sort of, I don't know, candid and fully myself in a way.

[Ego Nwodim]

What do you think clicked to allow that? Namely, the part about, like, being able to be fully yourself. The better version of yourself. I think I understand.

[Matt Walsh]

I think there's a sense of confidence and sense of place that at some point in your life. Life, you don't really care how you come over on people. I think a lot of times we. Or I did. I can only speak for myself. I think I wanted to. People, please. Or I wanted to be in a. We all still. In this career. We all still want to be further along. So that sort of always.

[Ego Nwodim]

Always.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah. That sort of desperation or that sort of nervousness or that sort of sense of drive that you feel like you always got to be working hard at some point that just, you know, it lessens. It's sort of. You're just like, I don't really care. Like, whatever. You just have more of that attitude, I think.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right, right. That makes sense. Now, are you a strict parent?

[Matt Walsh]

I can be.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

But also, like my father, I do travel a lot. Like, I'm gone a lot. So, like, when I did veep. Yeah, I was, you know, I was gone for, like, weeks at a time, you know, for half the year. So it's weird to come back into a thing that's working really well and go, okay, here's how we're gonna do things. And then Morgan's like, please stop. Like, getting mad. Like, don't. The train is on the track. The train is on the tracks.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, you're. You just jumped on the train. Sir, you can't come in here and.

[Matt Walsh]

Train's in motion, buddy. Train's in motion. Just sit down.

[Ego Nwodim]

I started chuckling in advance of your answer. Cause I was imagining. I'm like, yes. A traveling parent. Parent who then comes, pops in when they can and is like, we're doing it this way. We're doing that. Why is this happening? It's like, well, I don't think you're allowed to do that.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, but I am. I'm like, I am the strict one. Like, I'm stricter than Morgan. Morgan is more sensitive and, like, has a harder time. Like, am I neglecting them by being stern? You know what I mean?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And I don't. I don't have a problem with that.

[Ego Nwodim]

No issue being stern. Wait, first of all, how many kids do we. You have?

[Matt Walsh]

We have three. Three.

[Ego Nwodim]

Three. Okay. And then four, including me now. So.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I'm your four. Yeah. You're the fourth.

[Ego Nwodim]

You should tell Morgan, by the way. Let her know I've accepted a role.

[Matt Walsh]

You're the old. Well, you're the oldest now.

[Ego Nwodim]

I'm the oldest? Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

So you're easy.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And I'm an easy kid.

[Ego Nwodim]

I honestly, in my humble opinion, I was always an easy kid. I mean, we'd have to ask my mom, but I think I was always an easy kid.

[Matt Walsh]

But I mean you're, you're in Brooklyn, you have a career.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's like, like don't need money.

[Matt Walsh]

Don't need money.

[Ego Nwodim]

Nope.

[Matt Walsh]

You seem, you're on your two feet. You seem to be doing all right.

[Ego Nwodim]

Of sound mind. At least five days out of the week, I would say, all right, Everyone gets a little 48 hour period to go insane per week. I say at least. So there's three of them. Do you care if they're scared of you? Does that matter to you or do you think a little fear is good?

[Matt Walsh]

I think sometimes there were times when they were younger where I probably lost my shit too much and I could see that I probably was like too loud or something. Like I never hit them or anything like that. But there are because we're so big and they're so little.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

So I guess I don't ever want them to fear me.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. But then when you saw those moments in real time when it's like, okay, I've raised my voice. I think the volume my size is maybe scaring my kid. Did you go into immediate like, okay, repair. I need to fix this and I need to meet them with the opposite energy or no, it would be like.

[Matt Walsh]

It would be a cool down period. And then maybe whatever, 30 minutes later, hour later, I would come back and go, okay, I'm sorry I yelled. I can't turn it around that quickly. I need a little like, yeah, away time.

[Ego Nwodim]

I only barely believe in astrology. What's your sign?

[Matt Walsh]

Do you want to guess?

[Ego Nwodim]

I'm gonna guess one, just for shits and giggles. I will say I feel incredibly ignorant on the topic, relatively, because I know some people who are so invested and know it so well. I find it like, hehehaha, interesting. I'm going to. Based on what you just said and needing the cool down period. I go, are you me? Do we have the same DNA? You are of course my dad for the day. But I am like, huh, we might be related. Because I also would need to like cool down after. I'm upset. I can't snap out of it that quickly. Which in my opinion just Means it's real. But Pisces. Are you a Pisces? Are you a water sign?

[Matt Walsh]

I don't know. I'm a Libra. Are they water sign?

[Ego Nwodim]

No, I think that's a. No, I was gonna say that's a lion.

[Matt Walsh]

Metal.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's metal scale. Oh, okay. Justice, arbiter of justice or something like that. Yeah. Okay, got it. Okay, that's. That's interesting. How do they respond in those moments? So when you come back after, do you feel like they're like, okay, forgiven?

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah, I think it helps. I think it slowly works through and then it's. Teenagers are really a lot harder than little ones.

[Ego Nwodim]

So how many teenagers do you have?

[Matt Walsh]

Have. We have two. We're gonna have three in December. Our youngest will be 13.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, so you said they're the hardest. They're harder than young ones because what.

[Matt Walsh]

Because the challenges are complicated. When they're little, it's like, keep them safe, keep them fed, keep them clean, make sure they get sleep, have fun with them. And you can carry them on their arm and put them on an airline tray and you can make. You can cook dinner with a baby and you're Bjorn. It's all very. The goals are very simple for me, at least. And then when they're 16 or 17 and they ask you questions, or they come with, you know, their opinions about someone who's getting cancelled and they don't like someone, let's say. And I'm like, all right, smoke. Okay, wait, slow down. You know, Or. Or they have a judgment about something or. Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

Or.

[Matt Walsh]

Or they don't want to do something, and then they have really good logic and you're, like, trying not to lose your cool. Like, there's all those scenarios that come up.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, wait, well, say you're in an exchange with one of your teenage kids and their logic is really good. I really want to get to the bottom of this. And you're my first dad to allow me the space to talk about this, so. Teenage kid, their logic's really good. And you're wrong. You've already said you're willing to apologize when you're like, I, like, like, popped off a little too much and I'm going to say sorry, which. I don't know a ton of parents that apologize. At least not when I was growing up. But did your parents ever apologize to you? Just. Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Really? There were t. No, There were times, but probably when I was older, not when I was little.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, great. So, like, so you have a teen. You have a teenager in your House, their logic is super strong and you're kind of stuck. What do you do? Yeah, what?

[Matt Walsh]

Like, yeah, there's these pop up concerts like somebody will put out on TikTok. Like, oh, my friend's doing a show in the forest preserve out in Calabasas, and my son's 16 and he's meeting some friends, right? And then it's like this thing's in motion. And then I'm. And I'm like, I. I don't, I don't like it. Like, I'll say, I'll say that like, you can't go, why? I'm going with so and so and so and so. And. And this mom's picking me up, but I'm like, I know, but it's just like, it's Calabasas. I don't know where you saw that and that, but. And then they give you all the details sometimes and it's worked. Sometimes it doesn't. Always I'm like, look, I don't have the logical argument, but my gut, which I trust, is telling me this isn't a good scenario. And so there will be times in our life, your relationship with me, where I just don't have the right words to appease you, or I don't have the right words to express it, but my gut is telling me this is no bueno and it's not going to happen. And so I apologize that I don't have the words because they'll go, why, why, why, why? And that sometimes works. That's my default. My gut is telling me and I can't quite right, you know, give me 30 minutes tomorrow I bet I'll have a better reason. But right now I don't have it.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, I actually really like that. I think that back when I was a teenager, because I do know that I was a 14, 15, 16 year old. Like, why? Why, why? No, no, like, I understand. You know, I've been doing everything you've told me to do to this point, but now I've got some questions and I'd be like, I'd. Why? I think that would have worked on me because I also now that I'm so intrigued by parent, like with parenting and psychology and the way our minds work and the way they form. I feel like a childhood psychologist would be like, well, that's not bad because then you're telling your kid too, hey, sometimes it's just a gut thing and you should trust your gut. The way right now I'm trusting my gut and saying, no, you can't Go to that thing if this makes you. You weren't looking for reassurance at all. And again, I don't have kids, but I'm like, oh, I really that I, you know, so many times in that scenario with a teenager and I've been a teenager where it's just like, no. And it's because I said so. I never like those types of exchanges. Someone would say that because then, you know, your kid might go off and go, someone else said so. So now I just did the thing because you told me I'm supposed to mindlessly just honor because someone else said so. But I, I can get behind a parent going, I think I'm older now. I'm not anyone's parent. I'm not. I am someone's kid, but I'm not, you know, at their mercy. But I'm like, yeah, if you said, thank you for laying out all. Who's going. But my gut right now does not feel good. And my job is to protect you. And I would feel sick if something happened to you and I didn't listen to my gut.

[Matt Walsh]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

So do me a solid and not don't go, yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And I don't have the words right now for what. What it is. And when they're little, because I said so works, but when they're teenagers or as they get, get older, it doesn't work.

[Ego Nwodim]

And so it also doesn't feel good. On the other side, just as a former child, I'm like, it doesn't feel good when someone says that to you.

[Matt Walsh]

And they go, you're right.

[Ego Nwodim]

Because I said so. And I go, I'm also a person. I know I'm young, I might not pay bills, but I don't know, let's talk.

[Matt Walsh]

But sometimes because I said so is fatigue from a parent listening to a nine year old go, but why? But why? But why? And that's a full day.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And then you're getting in the car and they want to do one more swing on the swing. And you're like, you got a bedtime. You got school tomorrow.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

And it's the 200th. Why? Why? Why? Because I said so is communicating like I'm at my boiling point.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. You know what? That makes sense as well. I understand that. And that's the part of me that goes, yeah, I haven't had that kid in my backseat all day grilling me on yy. And I'm like, we're done. We're at the threshold. I've got nothing else for you. Can't engage in this exchange. And what I'm saying has to go so. Because I said so. That makes sense. That makes perfect sense. I get that. That. Do you give your kids any advice now in terms of how they should conduct themselves, or do you think you're more of a, like, just follow my.

[Matt Walsh]

Example advice that I give my kids. One thing I heard on a radio or podcast is that sometimes. Well, one, I'm terrified of drugs. So I'm like, don't do any powders. Don't smoke anything that someone hands you.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Matt Walsh]

If. If you're ever have a question or if you're ever in trouble at a place you can always call. You'll never get in trouble. That's not advice.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Matt Walsh]

So advice would be what's advice?

[Ego Nwodim]

But it kind of is, though, Matt. But also, you're in a pinch because we're gonna do a part two. I'm gonna count that as advice. Okay. But then I have to end each episode because I want to honor your time asking my dad for the day you for a piece of advice. I have a question for you, and I would love your advice on it. What's going on in my life is I have a lot of little tattoos. I'm really enjoying it. I'm having fun. Three years ago, I had zero tattoos. Now I think I have 14. They're tiny, tiny little guys. Do you think, dad, I should cap it there? Enough is enough. Or do you think if I'm still enjoying it, keep getting tattoos?

[Matt Walsh]

Why do you. Why do you think? You ask yourself the question or where. Where is the fear behind that question?

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, wow, That's a great question. I have not had one volley to me. Well, my mom is not into tattoos. She's not like a hard, like, nose turned up, like, disgusting, going rants about them. But she's just like, you don't need to mark your body. You don't. You really don't need to. And my grandmother and grandfather had tribal tattoos. So I was like, they had them. She was like, they were fashionable when they were coming up. And I go, well, they're fashionable again, lady. So here I am. So that's my thing where I go, I did have zero three years ago, which I feel like a different person then. And I'm like, people said they were addictive. And I was like, not me. I just want these two. And I'm done. And I'm done because I'm going zero to two. And now 14 later, and I'm a little like, oh, is this the addiction? People were talking about maybe that's it. Where you go. I don't think I'll ever cover my arms up or anything crazy like that. And I don't mean to call that crazy. I just think that is a departure for me.

[Matt Walsh]

I think you have a fear of addiction or crossing a line that you maybe, in this moment, don't intend to. So I would say explore a boundary for yourself and say, like, here's the region that I will never violate. Eight.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Something I don't. That's a bad example, but it's.

[Ego Nwodim]

No, it's helpful, though.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, we know. We know we're not going to ruin the money maker, right? No neck.

[Ego Nwodim]

No necky neck. Neck.

[Matt Walsh]

Nothing. Well, whatever. I won't get in your body.

[Ego Nwodim]

But yeah, okay, I have boundary. I, like, have some real boundaries.

[Matt Walsh]

Think about it. And maybe. Maybe that'll give you less fear.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Matt Walsh]

Like, where. Where is the region that, like. Okay, the leg. We've already got three there. Whatever.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. This is helpful. Matt, do you want to plug anything?

[Matt Walsh]

I'm in a movie called the Good Half. The Good Half that's out on your platforms right now. It's good. It's got a great cast, and I do a podcast with Tim Simons where we go through old episodes of Veep called Second in Command.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. Listen to Second in Command, the podcast Matt does with Tim Simons. They're watching Veep. You heard it from him. I feel the need to reiterate it because I really want you to. And the Good Half. The Good Half is out streaming everywhere. It's got a good cast, according to my dad, for the day, so watch it. Matt, I really appreciate you being here. Thank you so, so much for your time. Thank you for that sage wisdom and advice. I'm gonna really take that out into the world for myself, so I appreciate you. We will do a part two. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. Thanks. Dad is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by by me, IGA Wodom. This show is engineered by Rachelle Chen and Anya Konovskaya and edited by Rachelle Chen with executive producer Emma Foley. Katie Moose is our VP of content at Headgum. Thanks to Jason Matheny for our show Art and Ferris Manchi for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and. And maybe, just maybe, we'll read it on a future episode.

[Matt Walsh]

That was a Headgum podcast.

[C]

Hi, I'm Caleb Herron, host of the so True podcast now on Headgum. Every week, me and my guests get into it, and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions, and we also may or may not test their general trivia knowledge. Whether it's one of my sworn enemies like Brittany Broski or Jewel F. Wallow or my actual biological mother, Kelly, my guests and I are just after the truth, and if we find it, great. And if not, no worries. So subscribe to so True on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and watch video episodes on the so True with Caleb Herron YouTube channel. New episodes drop every Thursday. Love ya.