Nicole Avant

Summary

Thanks Dad with Ego Nwodim
Episode: Nicole Avant
Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "Thanks Dad," host Ego Nwodim sits down with Nicole Avant: bestselling author, award-winning film producer, entrepreneur, and former U.S. diplomat. The conversation explores gratitude, resilience, family values, community, and the pivotal life lessons Nicole received from her parents, particularly her mother. Nicole’s reflections draw deeply on her upbringing in a house bustling with music, creativity, and intentional parenting, and the episode touches warmly on how discomfort and community shape character.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who Do You Want to Say Thanks To?

(06:28–08:22)

• Nicole initially plans to thank her parents, whom she speaks with daily, but that day acknowledges her longtime friend John McClane, who surprised her with a meaningful, large crystal as an unsolicited act of kindness.
  • "It was just to be kind and to be generous and thoughtful, and that is enough." — Nicole Avant (07:46)

2. The Value of Unconditional Generosity

(07:28–08:22)

• Nicole shares how unexpected kindness can replenish the spirit during times when you feel emotionally drained by others' constant requests and lack of reciprocity.

3. Lessons in Service and Manners from Her Mother

(08:48–12:14)

• Nicole’s mother insisted Nicole work service jobs from age 15 to learn empathy, humility, and to “see the best and worst of people.”
  • "The best way for me to teach you about human nature and mankind is you have to serve people." — Nicole Avant (09:34)
• Emphasis on respecting everyone, regardless of status or title.

4. Parental Influence, Choices, and Values

(10:25–13:00)

• Ego and Nicole discuss that good parenting does not guarantee good behavior; each person ultimately chooses their path.
  • "A parent can only do so much... then they are gonna ultimately take what they want from that and become who they're meant to be." — Ego Nwodim (10:58)
• Nicole’s mother: strict but fun, instilled respect for authority and service.

5. Kindness, Respect, and Societal Shifts

(13:00–16:12)

• Discussion on declining everyday manners and how simple decency—like saying “please” and “thank you”—is transformative.
  • "Kindness really is respect—the highest form of love is respect." — Nicole Avant (14:45)
• Nostalgia for times when communities prioritized kindness and consideration.

6. Mother’s Upbringing and “Think You’ll Be Happy”

(16:12–21:30)

• Nicole’s mother, born in Jamaica, Queens (1940), debiant and model, taught Nicole to show up in the world with gratitude and be a “happy soul.”
• The title of Nicole’s book stems from her mother’s final words: “Think you’ll be happy.”
  • "She would always say, gratitude...you just decide to be happy, and...being a happy soul is being a grateful soul." — Nicole Avant (19:02)

7. Gratitude, Contentment, and Moving Bars

(22:23–31:20)

• Ego notes the tendency to move the goalposts and lose sight of earlier gratitude when new challenges arise.
  • "The bar is always going to move, and that is what we all forget." — Nicole Avant (29:06)
• Writing down what you're grateful for shifts perspective rapidly.

8. Pushed Out of Comfort Zones

(35:15–41:30)

• Nicole describes being pushed by her mother into uncomfortable social situations and camps to foster resilience.
  • "She loved putting me in uncomfortable situations so that I would become resilient." — Nicole Avant (36:09)
• Value of learning discomfort ("it’ll put hair on your chest," as her dad joked) and that not getting everything prepares you for life.

9. Community: Its Gift and Inconvenience

(52:01–56:46)

• Nicole’s childhood home was a hub for musicians and community figures—a source of personal annoyance at the time but, in hindsight, vital to her development.
  • "The cost of community is inconvenience." — Ego Nwodim (52:34)
• Nicole credits her character and values to the “village” that helped raise her.

10. Taking Responsibility & Choice

(54:45–62:32)

• Her father’s advice: "It is what it is. But what are you gonna do about it?"
• Nicole reflects on the power of acceptance and choice in every situation: accept reality, then decide on intentional action.
  • "Your power of choice comes in right after and what am I going to do about it?" — Nicole Avant (55:32)
  • Avoid focusing on others’ “why”; focus on your own.

11. Lessons from Discomfort, Quitting, and Perseverance

(61:20–75:58)

• Ego grapples with the difference between quitting and leaving situations not aligned—Nicole advises that “quitting” is different from making the active, healthy choice to move on.
  • "If you’re not a quitter, you could still leave things." — Nicole Avant (72:50)
  • “I always try to give the 80/20 rule: if it’s 80% good, it’s great—if it’s 80% dread, you gotta go.” — Nicole Avant (73:09)

12. Relationships, Partnership, and Growth

(62:32–67:11)

• Nicole and Ego discuss the importance of having a supportive partner and how both she and her husband, Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos, empowered each other to take big leaps.

13. Step-Parenting and Adult Relationships

(66:33–69:44)

• Nicole recounts her relationship with her stepchildren, especially Sarah—growing from friction to deep love after mutual understanding and respect.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Generosity & Impact:
  "It moved my heart...generosity coming in for no other reason than just to be generous and kind." — Nicole Avant (07:46)

• On Kindness & Service:
  "The highest form of love is respect." — Nicole Avant (14:45)

• On Parental Limits:
  "A parent can only do so much." — Ego Nwodim (10:58)

• On Community:
  "The cost of community is inconvenience." — Ego Nwodim (52:34)

• On Responsibility:
  "It is what it is. But what are you gonna do about it?" — Nicole Avant (54:45)

• On Entitlement:
  "Entitlement kills the soul." — Nicole Avant (24:00)

• On Leaving & Quitting:
  "Quitting things and being a quitter are very different." — Nicole Avant (72:27)

• On Resilience:
  "If you choose to make yourself uncomfortable ... you realize, oh my God, I didn’t die." — Ego Nwodim (42:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Who do you want to say thanks to? (start of interview): 06:28
• Importance of service & manners: 08:48–12:14
• Respect & societal shifts: 13:00–16:12
• Mother’s upbringing & happiness mantra: 16:12–21:30
• Gratitude & moving bars: 22:23–31:20
• Discomfort and resilience: 35:15–41:30
• Community’s role in upbringing: 52:01–56:46
• Accepting reality and taking action: 54:45–62:32
• Discussion on quitting vs. moving on: 61:20–75:58
• Partner support & rearing stepchildren: 62:32–69:44

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Tone & Style Highlights

• Deeply heartfelt, reflective, and candid
• Warm, conversational banter with moments of humor, especially when relating personal anecdotes
• Lessons often wrapped in the original phrasing and spirit of Nicole’s family wisdom

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a rich, moving exploration of gratitude, service, community, choice, and parental influence, through Nicole Avant’s lived experience and thoughtful storytelling. The interplay between Nicole and Ego is genuine, mutually respectful, and full of life lessons relevant for anyone reflecting on family, ambition, and personal growth.

Transcript

[Nicole Avant]

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[Ego Nwodim]

What's up you guys? So today I'm kind of just going through my phone looking at old jokes that I would have pitched at SNL during Monday night pitch and I don't think I pitched any of these. Some of I will say one that I know I pitched that I was so proud of. I don't know if it's any good, but one that I remember and I feel so proud of, and that's why I still remember it. And it really might be bad is what if you host whoever it was at the time. Are play a woman who joins the Peace Corps because she thinks it's a workout class. Okay. They're laughing. Where does it go from there?

[Nicole Avant]

I don't know.

[Ego Nwodim]

I have from September 2023. What if you hook up with a weatherman hoping he'll name a hurricane after you? I do it a joke about white people, quote, going dancing. It always feels like an event with white people. I don't. And I love you guys. I do. I don't. I never understood this. I actually could pop off about. I wasn't planning to, but I always find it so strange that white people are like, we're going dancing. And it's like. And it's an event, like, on Friday, we're going dancing. And I'm like, sure, like. But with. With me and my friends and who are not white and black people that I know, it's like, if we go out, there's music playing at the venue. People might start dancing. But it felt like white people had to gear up and. And prepare themselves mentally. Like, I've never heard a black. I've never heard a black person. I promise you say we're going dancing once, but I hear white people say all the time, and I'm just so curious about it. Does it feel like you're having to gear up mentally, prepare, practice ahead of time? I don't know. Do you guys say you're going dancing? Do you even. First of all, hold on. Do you even go dancing? There are white people in the room. Okay, you go dancing. Do you say, I'm going out dancing? On, we're going dancing.

[Nicole Avant]

So we say we're going to go.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, but before you started line dancing, which I imagine was recently, were you going out dancing? Would you say, I'm going dancing? You would? It's okay.

[Nicole Avant]

No shame.

[Ego Nwodim]

This is a safe space.

[Nicole Avant]

I was a dancer, too.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. I was a ballerina. And I never said, I'm going dancing, but maybe because I'm black. I don't know. I don't know. And I don't have all the answers, guys. And I hope you have not come to this podcast for answers, but more for questions. Anyway, guys, today I am talking to someone absolutely phenomenal. I am so excited to speak to them. Truly, truly, truly. Just their energy is in the times I've met them in passing is so phenomenal. I have a feeling I'm really going to enjoy this conversation. And thus you're going to enjoy this conversation. I will be speaking with Nicole Avant. My next guest is a best selling author, award. Winning. Aygo. What's happening? You're making me nervous. I don't get starstruck often. Quite literally. Nicole. Okay, it's good. Keep this all, please, so people can see how I was fully melting down. She can't form words. Okay. All right. My next guest is a best selling author, award winning. Oh, my God. Winning. My next guest is a bestselling author, award winning film producer, entrepreneur, and former diplomat to the United States.

[Nicole Avant]

There you go.

[Ego Nwodim]

Nicole Levant. Thank you. I couldn't speak before. You are so. I feel so supported right now. They're clapping for me for doing the intro. Potentially, they'll keep in all the times I. Potentially, they'll keep in me not being able to speak for fear and nerves because Nicole is here. Oh, my goodness. I'm so happy to talk to you. This is huge.

[Nicole Avant]

This is awesome.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay, tell me what's going on. On any given day, who do you want to say thanks to or what?

[Nicole Avant]

Okay. You know what? I thought about it earlier. Of course I was going to say thanks to my parents because I talk to them every morning. But today, my friend, right before I got here just gifted me with the most gorgeous crystal, which I thought it was gonna be A crystal that you could just put on the table. Yeah, no, no, no. It's on a big stand. It's huge. I don't know, weighs 600 pounds. And he just delivered. He just said, you know, I really thought about you and I thought you and Ted should have this. And I've been wanting to, you know, give you a gift for so long, and I'm so proud of you. And this. John McClane is his name. He has been my brother forever. And it was the. But the reason it's so, so important to me this week is because, you know when you have those weeks and you just feel, does anyone value me outside of my family? Just certain people where it's. I told. I told Ted last night. I go, I feel as if I'm a bank and everybody is coming in and just withdrawing. It's just a withdrawal.

[Ego Nwodim]

Can you do this? Can you do that?

[Nicole Avant]

But no one's checking on me. Really. No one's. So it's one of those, like. Is anyone making a deposit?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Is anyone just going to check in and Say, hi, how are you? Or again, the gift showed up for absolutely no reason. It was just to be kind and to be generous and thoughtful, and that is enough.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And it's just I. It moved my heart so much because it was like, listen, hey, I have a surprise for you. I've been thinking about you. I've been wanting to give you something for so long. I've been so proud of everything you're doing. And, you know, he was very close to my parents, and it just was something today where I was like, oh, yes, thank you, Lord.

[Ego Nwodim]

That is.

[Nicole Avant]

Thank you. Thank you for the good reminder. Reminder of just be, you know, generosity coming in for no other reason than just to be generous and kind.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

No, there's not. There's no agenda attached to it. It's just to be kind and thought you'd like something.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Those aren't, you know, it's nice.

[Ego Nwodim]

That is so nice. Yeah, that is so nice. And it. And I love that it came right when you needed it. Right after you'd been talking to your husband. Ted Sarandos.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

CEO of Netflix, I should say, for the people who don't know. I mean, I know. I know that. But just as you were venting to him, that, like, oh, my gosh, it feels like is just taking and wants.

[Nicole Avant]

Something from me and grabbing and my energy is all over the place and scattered. And we've all been there.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Nicole Avant]

And, you know, you just. And we've all. I'm sure we've all played many characters, so we all do things. And it's. It's one of the lessons that my mother always said of, you know, please look at everyone with value. Everyone. And it makes life so much easier when, you know, it doesn't matter the title, doesn't matter what station they are in life, but if you look at everyone as if they have value, it makes them feel good. They'll pick up your energy. Yeah. They'll understand. So it doesn't matter if it's. And she always had me in jobs that were of service jobs. So the waitress and the hostess and working at the dry cleaner and selling shoes and doing. But always. But since I was 15 and she said, I promise you, you will thank me when you're older, because the best way for me to teach you about human nature and mankind is you have to serve people. And you will see the best of people. You will see the worst of people. You'll get somewhere in the middle. You'll start to read energy. You'll start to see you Know, some people are raised with manners, and some people aren't, you know. And she said, there's nothing worse than an adult with terrible manners. Bad enough when you have a child with bad manners.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's crazy when it's adult because you go, where did we go wrong? Was this a parenting thing? Did you pick this up along the way?

[Nicole Avant]

Right. Or did you just not listen to your parent? I mean, because that happens too. People that I've grown up with that I've known, you know, the good news is I have so many friends that we've been friends since kindergarten, from the very beginning, still friends. And we all get together a couple times a year. And there was two people where we said, I wonder what happened? Because the parents were great.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

They were raised right, and they just chose. They made a choice. Yeah. And they just went another way.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. My friend and I are often saying that a parent can neither of us have kids, but we look at some of the people we know, and we know some of those people's parents just. And we haven't known them for as long as you've known your friends, but we go, their parent, their mother, their dad is so lovely. And again, I know we're just getting tidbits them in passing, but based on conversations with them and where their values seem to align, it's like, what happened here. And a parent can only do so much.

[Nicole Avant]

They can only.

[Ego Nwodim]

Just, like, you're gonna try to help shape this individual, and then they are gonna ultimately take what they want from that and become who they're meant to be or going to be.

[Nicole Avant]

My mom would always say, listen, I. I want to. I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say to myself, I know that I gave them everything that they needed, but it's ultimately their choice on if they're going to take all the values that I gave them and the lessons that I gave them. And she was a real disciplinarian, but she let us have fun.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right.

[Nicole Avant]

But, you know, she. She just. She was not down for the. The child being a brat or stepping out of bounds. She was very much, you know, you have to respect authority. You have to respect your teachers and your coaches and what have you. I mean, she said, you just can't go through life without that. So for me, it was. I'm so grateful that I did work from a very young age. And the positions that she did put me in where it was, no, not everyone's gonna be nice to you. And people are not gonna be respectful to You. And people won't even look at you. And you need to know what that feels like. So you need to know what that feels like. So hopefully that you will go through life and. And remember that. So look at somebody when they say hello. Look at somebody when they walk in.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

You know, I mean, I go to restaurants sometimes with. Depending on what it is, it could be for me, but most of the times I'll be standing right next to you.

[Ego Nwodim]

They won't even look at you.

[Nicole Avant]

Hi, Ted. That happened the other night. And I. I. It just. Poor Ted. I mean, he wanted to hide under.

[Ego Nwodim]

The table because he was like.

[Nicole Avant]

He goes, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Nicole, Nicole, Nicole. Everyone can hear you. He's like, you're so. You're. I go, teddy, calm down. She understood. I just said, hey, you know when people come into your restaurant, say, hi, guys. Welcome, everyone. Something. Yeah, but, hi, Ted. Hi, Ted. And then looking at me, I'm like, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. And it was just building up and building up, and I just, you know, I've been looking at it, just. I see it all the time, just in general, just observing society and this just. I said, no, no, no, no. Teddy said, but you were so loud. I said, her disrespect was loud. And I was. And I wasn't trying to turn out and be disrespectful back to her at all. I was actually. I felt as if I was defending every person. I was like, no, you don't do that. But especially in hospitality. That is why it's. You're. If you're in hospitality, your job is to be hospitable. It's right there. Hi, everyone. Yeah, hi. Welcome. How are you? Thank you for coming. Something. But I think it's generational. I mean, we all know it's. It's coming back, though. I think there is a. A turn. I feel there's a. There's a turn in this tide. Tidal wave of everyone just being however they want to be and forgetting manners and forgetting to be courteous. And I think that's really what we all mean by, you know, kindness. Pass it on. This and that. Kindness really is respect that. I think the highest form of love is respect. The one thing that every. You could still say no, respectfully, you know, it's just. But respect. Basic respect. Yeah, It's. It's not that hard.

[Ego Nwodim]

I love that you say that. We're perhaps coming back around to what maybe once was. And just maybe because I'm like, some people argue we've Been. Never had it. But I like the notion that. I feel like there was a different time where community was valued also way more. I think we did take a heart. The pendulum swung so hard in the direction of individuality and, like crazy boundaries and disrespect of one another.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

And it would be nice to see respect and kindness circle back.

[Nicole Avant]

Just decency. You can disagree, you can have a different opinion, but I don't need to call you names or make fun of you. Don't need to do all that.

[Ego Nwodim]

No need.

[Nicole Avant]

There's no need.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And. And societies don't do well when you're not considerate or courteous or looking out for each other. They just don't. They can't.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, they.

[Nicole Avant]

They can't. They can't survive. So I do think that it's. It's coming back to, you know, please. Thank you.

[Ego Nwodim]

Can you imagine? I've told this, I've said this on the podcast before, but I've been told I say thank you too much.

[Nicole Avant]

I've. I've been told that all the time. That's crazy. It's insane.

[Ego Nwodim]

Mind boggling.

[Nicole Avant]

I know.

[Ego Nwodim]

I go, what? Explain to me, saying thank you too much, having too much gratitude, being polite, not expecting people to do anything for you. Not from a cynical place, but expressing thanks and appreciation moment to moment for someone doing something kind for you.

[Nicole Avant]

Always.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And it never fails. I even just the other day, I'm eating lunch with a friend and she said, it's so funny, even when the waiter comes by, you stop mid sentence and say, thank you. I said, it's not difficult. It's just, I'm talking to you, we're doing something. And then thank you very much and go back. It's not difficult, but it's also just training. I think it was all the time I was say, please say thank you. Say, please say thank you. It's just ingrained in me. That's what you do. But I think it changes everything because it's acknowledgement.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Yeah. And your mom sounds like she instilled incredible values in you and she had them herself. Where was she from? Where did she grow up?

[Nicole Avant]

So my mother was born and raised in Jamaica, Queens.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Nicole Avant]

And she, you know, in those days, I mean, she was born in 1940, and she was a young scientist, young model, debutante, and she, she really. But, you know, in those days, you know, the debutante schools and everything, I mean, it was really about, you know, the precision of not just modeling and walking down the Runway, but it was how do you present yourself in society? How do you present yourself wherever you are? How do you look at yourself? Not even just physically, but how do you want to show up in the world? And they were almost talking about energy way before we were all talking about energy, but it was the energy of what do you want to bring into the space that you're coming into so that you're interesting, so people, you know, what stands out about you? And she was very. I mean, I looked through her high school yearbooks, which was the best thing that I could have ever received after she passed away. Out of all the things her daily planner, her high school yearbooks, like I said, and I look through and it was, you know, done most for. She went to John Adams High School. Done most for Adams. Jacqueline Gray, of course, done most. We don't even have that. We don't even have that.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, it's like hottest, classic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

No, done most.

[Ego Nwodim]

Like, that is so.

[Nicole Avant]

Great because that is who she was through and through all of her life. And I love that about her. And so all of it was never, you know, once she moved to Los Angeles, she didn't have a lot of friends. I mean, she meets my dad and she's 26, and then she moves to LA at 28. And, you know, she's thrown into the entertainment industry and the music industry, and she rolled. I mean, she. She was. You know, you can call me. She was a phlebotomist. So she would always take. She took people's blood at the hospital, but she. She came right out of that.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And moved to Los Angeles and she reinvented herself all the time. Yeah. And she. But she loved her life, which is why I wanted to dedicate Think you'll be happy to her, because those were her last words to me. Think you'll be happy. And it was so typical of her because she really. She wasn't in denial that, you know, life can be tricky and life is hard and life could be unfair. But for her, more than that, life is beautiful. Life is a privilege, and life is a gift. And she would always say, you know, gratitude, you know, every time I'd say, I don't know, how do you stay happy?

[Ego Nwodim]

She said, well, you.

[Nicole Avant]

You just decide to be happy, and it doesn't. That doesn't mean you're going to be happy every single second of your life. But if you decide to be a happy soul, and being a happy soul is being a grateful soul, you really get to happiness through, I think, the quickest way to get There is be really grateful and appreciate the people in your life and, and appreciate all of, all of life. I mean, now, it's in hindsight. It's always in hindsight, but, you know, the things that, that you think are going to break you actually end up shaping you and forming you into. To a different person, a better version of yourself, or reminding me, excuse my language, who the fuck you are. Yeah. You know, but you have to have.

[Ego Nwodim]

You have to.

[Nicole Avant]

Yo. I can't. But you have to have that resistance. The only thing that makes you stronger is resistance. You have to be pushed. So someone does have to be. You know, you, you have to deal with people who are rude, who are disrespectful, who are whatever, but they're a part of your story to help you get to. You have to have so many no's and it's. You have to have no's. Nobody wants to know. I said, well, how are you going to go through life and be great without having a no? And especially coming from, you know, so my mom really helped shape my father, Clarence Avon. As you know, he's known as this big, great entrepreneur. And he was. And yes, he's the black godfather and all these things that you could put any name on him. But without my mother supporting him and without her standing by his side, I don't think he would have been able to have accomplished everything that he did. Because he really had someone who was energetically very different than him. She was very polished. She was very gruff. He's from the south and born in 1931, in the worst times under Jim Crow. And the Klan was running rampant at that time. And he knew how to hide from the Klan. I mean, they had a whole thing. I mean, green book. When that movie came out, he was like, no, that was real. We had the green book. You know, we knew where to stay, where we could stay. We knew where our aunties or uncles could stay if they traveled throughout the South. And so for him, it was very different from New York City. He always says that when by the time he got to New York City in his late teens, he said it was a seeing life in Technicolor. He said all of a sudden it was color. And he said, I wasn't turning around, looking over my shoulder. Every second. It was a different life. And so they had. They were nine years apart. They had very different upbringings, but the same value system. That'll do it and that'll do it. And I'm very proud of what they accomplished together. I mean, they really did. Excuse me. Great things and change people's lives for the better. Which is the way that my mom always said, you know, every room she walked in, she'd always say, well, I hope I left it a little better than what it was. Or I hope I. Even if it was great when it walked in, I hope that I sprinkled just a little bit of light on it. That she really lived like that. And I didn't really understand it when I was younger. And, and now I. I get it and I appreciate it, and I'm extremely grateful.

[Ego Nwodim]

It sounds absolutely remarkable, and your family is remarkable and has done so much. And the fact that you recognize the value in the upbringing you were afforded, just having those type of parents that you had who were so devoted and intentional in that way is also beautiful.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes. And devoted. I love that word. Yes. And when my mom really was devoted.

[Ego Nwodim]

That'S what it sounds. There's a level of intentionality you have to operate with to go. I'm going to be a happy soul, despite whatever I'm experiencing, whatever I'm seeing in the world around me, because I know that I still have choice in this. So much is not up to me, but I have choice.

[Nicole Avant]

You always have a choice. And the. The choice that my mom always reminded me, she said, your attitude is everything, and that is your choice. So no matter what happens to you, you have to decide through your. Through your decisions. Well, how am I going to respond to this? You know, she'd always say, you know, responsibility. How, how that means, you know, what is my. What is my ability to respond to this? How am I going to respond to this situation? What am I going to learn from it? Should always. And I didn't like when she said it, but she was right. She's always say, after, after everything settles, what is the lesson? There. There has to be some lesson. And even if you did 98% of everything right, find the 2% where you could pivot, where you could learn from. Let's say you didn't do anything wrong then. But you have to know that then this door is closing. This was unfair. But you're going to make a decision to not quit. You're going to make a decision to move forward. You're going to make a decision to remind yourself of your value and start again. But then she'd always say, but. But always look for. Also, don't act as if you didn't do anything wrong or you couldn't have been any better, because then you won't grow. Yeah, you know, and I think she was very afraid, or I should say fearful of me or at my brother Alex being entitled. She'd always say, oh, entitlement kills the soul. It kills anything because they don't want to be responsible for anything because they're entitled. So I should have this and why not? And why do you have this podcast? Why don't I have this podcast? She said, all of a sudden it creates such, such a friction of energy and so many people. Yeah, I know so many people who, Who've not grown, who've not moved forward, and they're so smart and so capable, but their attitude of life owes me. Someone owes me. I'm entitled to. This ruins everything for them.

[Ego Nwodim]

That is so insightful. And I think it's so true and wise. I'm just thinking, I go, anytime you are looking at what someone else has and you're like, I want that. Why don't I have that? I should have that. It's not fair that they do. What makes them so great? It's like, what a waste of energy.

[Nicole Avant]

Wasted energy.

[Ego Nwodim]

And it's, it's such a. It's such a waste. And all of that energy, you could be putting into something else more productive and figuring out what you do have. Create your life. Yeah, you really do have the power. There's been times I've felt powerless. And then you go, I tap back into my agency and I go, oh, I feel better now because I remember I have choice.

[Nicole Avant]

But we all do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And that's the thing. I think we all forget that. We all miss the mark. We all fall off the path. We all get into the doubting ourselves and questioning ourselves. But, but to come back to understanding and remembering that because we are human beings, then we have a gift. Because we're the only creatures that have the gift of imagination and we have the gift of choice. And when you have imagination and choice and you use them in a constructive way, it changes your life. I mean, you see it all the time. You see. I mean, how did everybody around the world. I don't care what country you're talking about. War torn countries in Eastern Europe, you could talk about countries in Africa, Europe, South America, wherever, where just complete decimation has happened and they have made a decision. I've got two bucks in my pocket. I'm gonna get to America. I've got this. I've lost my children. I'm gonna do. I mean, there's women right now who are literally walking 12 miles to go get shitty dirty water for their children. But they're determined and they're making a choice and they're doing it. And so the idea that, and you know, and you see these people and you read these stories and you, you think of all the jubilees that came out of slavery and all these beautiful songs and all of these, these traditions out of worst case scenarios. But that was all decision and that was all choice.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And, and we get, and we get to be here now and live a much easier life. And I think everyone's still focused on, but it's not this, it's not that. And I go, no, no, you have to look at really what is. And I always say, I always say to Ted, I said, you know, we cannot waste the sacrifices of other people. And I'm talking other people, meaning my family members. I'm not wasting the sacrifices that my grandparents made or my great grandparents or my great, great great grandparents. There were major sacrifices. But the beauty is they didn't hurt, they didn't hurt themselves or they didn't, you know, they didn't leave life early so I could be here. Yeah. They did so much for me to have an easier life.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And so I want to make the best out of what I've been given. I don't take it lightly at all, and I don't take it for granted at all. And I think that can be, that's a very dangerous slope, I think, which a lot of people are coming out of now, which is, which is why gratitude is important. But being, but really look at who came before you and what they had to go through and what was really unfair and unjust. And then they move things for you. And now you're here and you could do something with that. Right.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's so easy to not be in gratitude because the things for which we should be grateful for, we get really accustomed to. And you go, this is my life now. Like, I remember wanting a job so badly as an actor, trying, you know, auditioning non stop all through la, and then you get the job and it's so exciting. And then it's like once it becomes your job, you're like, oh, but it could be better in this way.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

It's like, but, you know, years ago it was like, I just want a job.

[Nicole Avant]

A job.

[Ego Nwodim]

I want to be able to pay my bills. And the way that, that the bar keeps moving is a, is a testament to the fact that you've done something, you've accomplished something, and you are experiencing something you should be grateful for. The bar is only moving because you have had an experience.

[Nicole Avant]

I think you said something really important. The bar is always going to move, and that is what we all forget. And I love that the bar always moves, and there's always a new goal. Always. I mean, yes, you could be content, but it doesn't mean that your. Your brain just doesn't stop. So of course you want to. To change things or, you know, upgrade things or not, but it doesn't mean you can't be content. To your point, but the bar still moves. Yeah, there's. It's. It's. So once you get the one thing, and then it's, well, what's next? And what am I doing? And. And why isn't this better than what I thought it was going to be?

[Ego Nwodim]

But you're saying, like, the. The. The antidote is gratitude, which we heard said before, and it sounds so rudimentary, but I can attest to any time I have made the choice to be like, wait a minute. This is amazing. I get to sit here with you, and I get to. I get to talk to you and hear about your experience and hear about your incredible parents and the way you see the world. I'm like, whoa, pinch me. Life is good.

[Nicole Avant]

Life is like.

[Ego Nwodim]

This moment is making me feel like life is great.

[Nicole Avant]

Thank you. No, but I. I appre. And I. And I feel the same about you as I told you earlier. And. But it, you know, when I write down what I'm grateful for, changes in two seconds. You know, I think the beauty was my mom. One of the best habits she gave me was when I, you know, before I went to bed, she'd always have me say my prayers. And it was the. Now I lay me down to sleep and I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake.

[Ego Nwodim]

I pray to the Lord my soul to take.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes, yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

So grim. That last. Just in case. It's kind of scary. Five years old. They've changed it.

[Nicole Avant]

It's so funny now they don't say that. I go, oh, because ours was scary. We got the scary version. If I die. If I should die before I wake.

[Ego Nwodim]

I pray the Lord my soul to take. Wait, I'm five. I'm fine. I'm really hoping I wake up. It was.

[Nicole Avant]

And then my mom would say. After I say that, she'd say, okay, now say, thank you, God, for my house. Thank you that I have a bed. Thank you that I had dinner tonight. Thank you for my friends at school. Thank you for my teacher. So it became a way of life for me to always just say thank you. And in the morning, my mom, you know, would drive us crazy because she sounded like Julie Andrews all the time. She's like, isn't it such a privilege?

[Ego Nwodim]

Come on, son of me.

[Nicole Avant]

I was like, oh, mom, Mom. Everything was it's such a privilege. Isn't it wonderful?

[Ego Nwodim]

I'm like, oh, well, I get that even this reaction you're having to it now feels very human. And I feel like we can all relate to those moments where someone's like, want to do a positivity challenge? And I've been like, absolutely not. I don't want to do a positivity because also that feels disingenuous to me. I'm like, I also want to be able to feel my feelings, thank you very much. But your reaction to that, like, isn't it such a privilege every effing day?

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Ed Helms]

Hey everyone, Ed Helms here.

[Nicole Avant]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're.

[Ed Helms]

The hosts of Ear, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

You know what?

[Nicole Avant]

I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

[Ego Nwodim]

You got a little call in firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here. Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ego Nwodim]

Can you paint a picture for me at what point, and you mentioned it earlier, where you're like, I didn't necessarily vou the lessons my mother was teaching me at the time about how to approach life and how to appreciate everything around me the way I do now. What did the time when you didn't appreciate it look like for you? Like paint. You grew up here in la.

[Nicole Avant]

So we had. So my dad was very big in the record business and so we had a lot of. So for example, his first major big breakout artist was Bill Withers. And you know, Bill was, you know, so they always had people at the house and they had musicians and, you know, Lalo Schiffrin, who was the composer for many things, but his most famous is Mission Impossible. And they all remained friends up until all of them passed away. But what I didn't appreciate was my mom loved having all of these people at the house all of the time. And but she was looking at it as a, as this is a landing pad for everyone to come and be creative and feel safe and have fun and really talk about the deals and the angst and the this and that, the ups and downs of the record industry or the entertainment industry in general, but then also being like a close knit group because there were a lot of people that, you know, especially for the African Americans in, in Los Angeles and Beverly Hills at that time, you know, there was a, I don't know, 12, 15 families, but we all knew each other. But what I didn't appreciate was the sense of community that my mom was creating and the value of friendship and really being there for the ups and downs and that, yes, a lot of these people were famous, but they weren't wearing their fame as a badge. They were using their fame to open up doors for other people. So it was early 70s, so in the record business, in the film business, in TV and everything, there really weren't a lot of black directors or producers working on shows. So they always wanted to make connections. And I didn't like that I had to share my parents. I didn't appreciate what they were doing. So I'm always looking at her like. Like, what, mom? You know, can we just have one night of this? Or can we just have, you know, whatever? And for example, you know, she loved sending. She loved putting me in uncomfortable situations so that I would become resilient. Okay, let's go, mom. Yeah, so it's very, you know, she's like, you know, you're going to go to camp. And I'm like, I'm in camp. I love camp. But I went to day camp. Then she moved me to sleepaway camp.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And I was like, I don't. I don't want to go there. I don't want to two weeks away. I don't want to live in a cabin.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And I don't want to live in a cabin in one room with girls that I don't know. And I don't want this. And I want my own this. She's like, this is exactly why you're going. Because you need to be uncomfortable. But more importantly, you need to meet people and you need to appreciate the fact that you can, I could even pay for you to do this. You need to appreciate that not everybody has this experience. And I'm. And I need you to appreciate that the experiences that I'm able to give you, I never had. And I want to give you as much as I can. So, I mean, she had me traveling at a young age. I mean, in high school, I was, you know, traveling with, you know, my teachers, my French teacher. We went to France and we did this, but she sent me to Russia in 1985. I'm like, mom, it was the USSR. You know, I. What could have happened? What could have gone wrong?

[Ego Nwodim]

And that's what you had.

[Nicole Avant]

17 year olds and 8 prayers.

[Ego Nwodim]

If I die before I awake.

[Nicole Avant]

You were.

[Ego Nwodim]

Of course, she was setting the stage for setting this to happen. And you were Covered.

[Nicole Avant]

I was covered. But she. She. She always. And I look back, and I'm thinking, right, I get it now. I get it. I. I just. You know, she was everything, really. She really looked at the lens of. And she'd always say, whatever lens you put on, whatever glasses you want to put on, is exactly the way you're gonna see life. And the only way life is going to change is when you put a different lens on. You know, she'd always say, when you change, the world will change around you. You're looking at it the other way, and you want everything to change, and then you'll be better. She said, it doesn't work that way. And so I think. I love that she had me go out of my comfort zone all the time, and whether it was a work situation or different schools or sending me away because I wasn't comfortable, and I was always afraid. And I love being at home with the comforts of home.

[Ego Nwodim]

I always say that I love my comforts, and I'm not proud about it totally, but I'm like, I love my comforts.

[Nicole Avant]

Ooh.

[Ego Nwodim]

But it's not good. Because I could stand to be a little uncomfortable from time to time, you know, but.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes, but the good news is that it was. But it helped me. You know, my dad always used to say this comment. It was so funny. He always used to say, it'll put hair on your chest. You know, I was like, daddy, I'm a girl. I don't want hair on my chest. Oh, my goodness.

[Ego Nwodim]

And everything he would say, everything. Everything he would say to me, everything I didn't want to do is like.

[Nicole Avant]

It'S good for you. It's gonna put hair on your chest. I'm like, God, dude, Jesus. But I. But again, I. By the time I was 25 and 30, and then I was able to walk into situations or handle situations, I thought, oh, right. Yeah, right. Thank you for setting this up. And thank you. And then, you know, even if I went into job interviews and I didn't get them or I thought I should get them, the beauty is that, you know, I was sometimes able to say, even in my anger, at least I had the opportunity to come and try. At least I had the opportunity to come and do this, you know, so it's wasn't such a Pollyanna. I think Pollyanna gets a bad rap. Because the real truth about Pollyanna is that she didn't say, everything's perfect at every time. It was in the worst of times. Find something to be glad about. That's the story of Pollyanna. And so my mom kind of pushed that narrative on me of, listen, life is like this. It's a blip. And, you know, at the end of the day, you want to be happy with yourself. You want to be able to look in the mirror and smile and, you know, you really want to be. Your intention should be. I really want to be a good soul. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really all you could do.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right? Right.

[Nicole Avant]

It doesn't mean a perfect soul, but it means a good soul. There's a difference.

[Ego Nwodim]

There is absolutely a difference. Also, perfectionism is a fallacy, frankly. That's not. There's nothing.

[Nicole Avant]

There is. No. No. Excellence is something to strive for. Sure. Because if you don't get excellence, then you get great. And if you don't get great, at least you get good. If you don't get good, at least you get okay. You know what I mean? If you don't get okay, you might. Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

And you can do something else.

[Nicole Avant]

But you try this.

[Ego Nwodim]

Choices over here.

[Nicole Avant]

Yeah. Endless choices. Yeah. Endless choices.

[Ego Nwodim]

That is so beautiful that they were so intentional about instilling that in you and that, you know, the notion that I want to make you uncomfortable because it's going to teach you how resilient you are. There are things. I'm not referring to my comforts, like my home, my bed, but there are things I have done in life. I just. I was on stage at a show just a couple nights ago, and I was telling these college students, I'm like, I love making myself uncomfortable. I really. Because. And I was. I was trying to articulate it. Not as beautifully as you just did. And where were you when I was doing this show? Because you could have said this better for me, but I was trying to tell them. I'm like, once you. When you are. When you choose to make yourself uncomfortable and when you don't excel at the thing or you're not good at the thing, or you kind of maybe air quote, embarrass yourself, you realize, like, oh, my God, I didn't die. I didn't die. I didn't die. I can do that. I've done that. I felt that.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

The. The feeling is fleeting. And now I can go try something else that makes me uncomfortable. And you just recog. You learn how resilient you are.

[Nicole Avant]

You can't build character without it. You just can't.

[Ego Nwodim]

You.

[Nicole Avant]

You have to lose. You know, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some. But it. My dad would always say that the Only regrets you're going to really have is if you don't try to always say, take a shot, take a chance. So what may not work, you know, go play the best game. You know, I was a tomboy growing up, so I was always in sports. And, you know, when I would lose, I would take it very personally, and I would just be down in the dumps for days. It's a game you play. If you played your best and you lost, that's all you can do. If you didn't play your best, and you'd always say, bet you won't do that again. You know, bet you won't not train the night before. You know, I'd get that way because I'd win five games and I'd get arrogant, and then I wouldn't train the night before. I'm like, I got this. No, I didn't. Right?

[Ego Nwodim]

No.

[Nicole Avant]

No, I didn't.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And. But I do really appreciate them really putting me in situations where I wanted to leave. I want. Quitting was not never an option, and again, didn't appreciate that till I was older, but it was. It's something that I don't really do. I don't. I move away from things that don't, you know, that. That just either have run their course, really don't fit. But quitting on people that I don't do, I mean, people know they can depend on me. I'm going to show up, I'm going to respond. I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do. But my dad said if you quit everything on your heart or if I take away everything from you as a child because it's difficult, then what are you going to do when you're 24 and I throw you out into the world, you're not going to even know how to respond to the world. You're not going to know how to move into the world. You're not gonna have to do anything. So when they moved me to New York when I was 24, and it was great, and I thought, of course I was gonna live in the comforts of their apartment and their lifestyle. My mother was like, no. I was like, oh, I'm just gonna get in your car, and the driver's gonna just drop me off at my mom's. Like, no, the subway's over there. And you go get on that subway and you go over here or you walk. And it was great, but it was really great. And the apartment that I wanted, I couldn't afford the apartment. And the one Thing my best friend Susanna and I go back to. We lived in a room, a room with. And it just had a little microwave, a little stove top Murphy bed, and we had two chairs. That was it. That was it. We shared the Murphy. And it was. But it was living in New York in the 90s and we were hustling, we were moving. It was. And my dad was right. He goes, new York, if you could do it in your 20s, it's important because it'll make you grow up pretty fast. Yeah. Because there's not a lot of lazy people here. Yes. There just aren't. They're just moving. New York, New York is there? Yes, they're going, uh huh.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes. It's true.

[Nicole Avant]

It's great.

[Ego Nwodim]

I had, I. I was coming back and forth between LA and New York when I got on SNL. So every. We'd have a break every three weeks. And I'd lived in LA for 12 years before I was on SNL, so we'd get a break. Two weeks here, two weeks there. And every single break I'd come back to la because this is what I'd known. This is where I became a woman. And so I was like, this is my comfort. Yes. Had my apartment in New York and I remember before a birthday. So my birthday's in March, so March 2020, I had to cancel my birthday plans. I was potentially going to do something in LA with my community here. I was like, I'll do it in New York. I do know enough people. We have this beautiful dinner. I'm walking home from dinner, I see the New Yorker sign in red and this is like, March. I'll call it like 8th 2020. And I was like, you know what? I am a New Yorker. And then they're like, lockdown. And I'm like, get me the fuck out. I'm like, I need to get out of here. I pack a bag, I'm like, I'm gonna go stay on somebody's couch in la. But then I like much like you describing your youth, love my personal space. And like, don't want to be in someone else's personal space for an undefined amount of time. The part of me that loves her, control. So I was like, oh, no, I can't go stay on someone's couch because we don't know how long this is gonna last. And then I'll be in their space. And I like, kind of like to be alone, but how alone?

[Nicole Avant]

Right.

[Ego Nwodim]

So I did Covid the worst of it, the height of it, in my studio apartment. In midtown Manhattan, hearing the sirens. And I was not a New Yorker, I just had that cute little moment. And then it got way too real way too fast, like, days later. And I made the choice to stay, ultimately. Cause I'm like, this is your apartment. This is the place. You pay rent. You do have a space. So I stayed. And New York has its way of just, like, growing you the F up fast. I remember I. I packed a bag to come to la, and then I was like, I can't stay at someone's house, like, for an undefined period of time. And they were willing to let me be on a couch, whatever. But before I got on a plane, which was really scary for us. So, like, really go back to 2020, which I think is hard for some people, not all of us, to remember, just how spooky that was. So I didn't want to get on a plane. And I thought, I just. I feel too scared to get on a plane. I don't have a mask. I don't have anything. I need to be on a flight. So I make this decision to stay. And I cried in the shower because I was like, I. I wish I was someone's kid so they could decide if I go to California or not. So, like, whichever decision is wrong, it'd be their fault. I just remember, like, I remember being like, that was the moment I became a woman. I kid you not, because I'm like, I am my responsibility. And wherever I decide to go or stay is going to be my choice. I can't blame mom or dad. They took us on a trip to whatever. Yeah, you need to make a choice right now. New York will grow you up, is the message.

[Nicole Avant]

I was just gonna say that wouldn't have happened in. Outside of New York. I mean, New York, that's just. I remember my dad used to say, you know, pretty much what you just said, like, it's. You'll see. New York has a way of just growing you the up. And when am I gonna know? It's gonna. How do you know? When is it gonna know? And my experience was one day, and I was very still, very la.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And I'm walking down Madison, and somebody. Somebody bumps into me really hard. But he bumps into me.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

I say. I go, oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. And he said, you know, learn how to fucking walk, you fucking idiot. And then out of the blue, and I had never done this ever, I'm like, go fuck yourself. Yes. And then right when I said it.

[Ego Nwodim]

I went, oh, my God, I'm a New Yorker.

[Nicole Avant]

I'm a New Yorker. I'm like, I will go and say.

[Ego Nwodim]

Please and thank you and then go.

[Nicole Avant]

Tell you to fuck yourself in two seconds. And it felt so good. I remember calling my dad. I go, I got it. I'm a New Yorker, Daddy.

[Ego Nwodim]

I said, go fuck yourself to someone. You've got range. I love it. I love it. But it was. Oh, I'm so sorry. Like, what? No, and also that 180 you did right there, you're like, hold on.

[Nicole Avant]

No.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

I was like, excuse me. No, rude.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Nicole Avant]

I love it.

[Ego Nwodim]

Character building. That is New York is very, very, very good for that. I will tell you now. You seem to have had such a beautiful childhood in that what was available to you? Also your parents, again, being so thoughtful about the values they instilled in you. Is there anything from your child, that childhood, that you wish you had had or you felt you. If you could do it again, not just your own perspective, but in terms of your. Your rearing the way you were raised?

[Nicole Avant]

No.

[Ego Nwodim]

I know it sounds kind of. I'm not gonna lie.

[Nicole Avant]

I. You know. You know what? Even. It's so interesting you asked that. Somebody just said the other day if you. If you're not nostalgic, you didn't. There's something about. It's a good thing to have. Nostalgia is a good thing to have, because that means that wasn't as bad as you thought or if you want to go back, you know, And I'm always saying, oh, I wish I could do that. Oh, I wish I could go back. And so I look back and I. No, I wouldn't change anything. I'm very. Yeah, I have. Like I said earlier, I have all of my friends from childhood, and we're still like this.

[Ego Nwodim]

That is rare.

[Nicole Avant]

Rare. It's very rare. We still celebrate birthdays, and if we can't celebrate birthdays, we're on group table all the time, and we're all supporting each other and all different stations of life, and it doesn't matter. And I think there's something about when you know somebody at 6, 7, 8, and 10 and 12, there's something in your DNA that just is there. And I remember when my mom. When my mom died, and it was so sudden, it was so tragic. And all of my friends, you know, they all rallied behind my dad. And I have a photo where my dad's sitting in the room and we're receiving everybody at the house, and all of my friends. When you look at this photo, I said to Ted, I Go fourth grade, third grade, second grade, first grade. And they all stood behind my dad and had these great stories because, you know, my dad was 90 at the time. He was like, oh, I kind of remember you. And they would all say, you took us to the ice skating rink, you took us to Flippers, you took us to this restaurant. You made sure that we, you know, we had curfew, and you were cursing us out as we weren't in the car. And it was so. It's so great. And I know how fortunate I am to have that. And. And I. And it's really one of the greatest blessings I have are my real, just old school friends that I've been friends with, you know, for over 40 years, 50 years. It's kind of awesome.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, that is beautiful. And it seems like something that was important to your parents was that community and creating space for the people in their community. Showing you how to build community. When we started this conversation, we were talking about gratitude sort of lacking, and hopefully there's a renaissance of sorts where we get to take a moment and be grateful for one another. I was just thinking about this post I saw recently, and I'm going to bastardize this, but it was that the cost of community is inconvenient. So I'm thinking about you as a younger person being like, there's people in my house, which would be my vibe.

[Nicole Avant]

Right, right, right, right.

[Ego Nwodim]

I grew up with a lot of community, too. But I'm like, it would be like, there's always someone here, but the cost of community is inconvenience and it is being annoyed from time to time.

[Nicole Avant]

But.

[Ego Nwodim]

And I was so.

[Nicole Avant]

I didn't really want to share my parents and, and even though there's. There's a part of me where Even in my 20s, I always thought, oh, you know, I really wish I could have changed the. That in my 30s. But then when I look back, the beauty is, I think for me is that all of those people did make a very positive difference in my character and in who I am today and how I think about the world today and how I make my decisions today. If my mom didn't have them, if my parents didn't have all these people at the house all the time, I don't really know who I'd be. Yes, I had great parents, but. But it was that outside community that was always inside the house that they helped raise me too. And they had. Yes, they had the same value system, but they had different goals. And I liked that. And I like seeing what would make this person happy or what this person was doing, or this person was focused on civil rights, or this person was focused on people getting into schools or scholarships or providing scholarships. I never, you know, I was able to put together of, oh, so you can be. You can make a really good living and do something and do really good in the world at the same time. Doesn't have to be one or the other. It didn't have to be, you know, you're going to be a missionary and then that's it. And you're not going to be an entrepreneur. It doesn't. You could do anything you want. Yeah. And that's what I, that's why I wouldn't change anything, because they really helped shape who I am. And you know, my dad had this great. I'm writing about it now. He has this great quote. He would say all the time, you know, it is what it is, Nicole. And then he pause. But what are you gonna do about. And what are you gonna do about it? And that was it. And that's the way it was. And I thought it was so harsh when I was growing up, I said, can you just sit with me for one second? Can I be angry for one minute? Can I be disappointed for one minute? Can you just. He goes, no, no, know. And he explained when he. And I got it, when I got older, but I'll never. I was, I went to. I was on my way to be. To serve in the Bahamas and it was right when they. My confirmations ambassador went through and I was going back and forth to D.C. and something happened in D.C. and they were calling me back for something and I was so frustrated and so angry and I was going into it so unfair and I was there and blah, blah, blah. And my dad and I really wanted just, I wanted a shoulder to cry on. And I got back, it is what it is. And I go, dad, can you just. And he goes, nicole, it is what it is means you have to accept first you have to take what happened and sit with it for a minute and accept it. You can't lie about it to yourself. You can't pretend this. You have to say, okay, it is what it is. So then there's your acceptance. He goes, and then your power of choice comes in right after and what am I going to do about it? He goes, and then you make a decision. So now you're going to get back on that plane. You have to go back to D.C. now. What's your attitude going to be? How are you going to go in? What Are you going to say? And all of a sudden, it was very empowering. And that's what he was trying to teach me of, you could have a bunch of shit fall. That's what's going to happen in life. And him being an entrepreneur, he's like, great things happen and terrible things happen. But then you have to decide, how am I going to pick myself up, up? What energy am I going to shift? What am I going to do? What's my attitude going to be? And figure it out. And. But it really did help me. And then I noticed. Now I'm like that. You know, at 57 years old, now, everything I look at through that lens of, okay, I'm not going to lie, this is what it is. You know, my. Like, for example, one of my worst habits, and thank God I've finally got this down. I have scaled this mountain, and that mountain was. Is receiving a red flag. Okay, Intuitively. Or witnessing a red flag right in front of me. Okay. And then wanting to paint it white.

[Ego Nwodim]

We've all done it, please.

[Nicole Avant]

I mean. And I would always say, like, how many times do I have to try to go around this mountain? And then you realize, like, no, you got to scale the mountain.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yes.

[Nicole Avant]

So learn the freaking lessons. And it kind of. It goes. So the other day I said, well, maybe. And then. And no, no, red flag, red flag. Doesn't matter. I don't care why. I don't care. That's another thing. I always used to focus on everyone else's why. And then I thought, well, gosh, I was focused on everyone else's why. And then it gave me no time for myself to then focus on my why. Why do I want to do this? What do I want to do? What do I want to create? I would sit and literally analyze other people's why. And the answer is always, that's their choice. It doesn't. I don't care how they grew up. It doesn't matter. At this point, I don't care. Yeah, at this point, it's still your why. It's still your choice of. I know lots of people who grew up in the same situation. They made a completely different choice. And I. I've helped people who, you know, this one girl who, you know, I was. I was her mentor, and she was so great. And she said she went to a great, great school. And at the end, I said, what are you gonna do with this degree? What are you gonna do with all this? You're great. You straight A student. She goes, oh, I'm gonna Be back a social. I'm gonna go back and be a social worker. I said, what? And she said, I'm gonna be a social worker.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And I said, well, okay, A. We could have gone to a different school cheaper. And I was joking. I'm not shitting on it. And she said, there's no way I would be who I am without any of those people that I was able to rely upon, that aren't fancy, that don't live these fancy lives, that are the game changers of so many people's lives. And it was such a great reminder for me. She's like, it's not about. She goes, I don't care about the title. I don't care about this. I want to go back and help children that were in a situation that I was in where the lights were off. Mom was, you know, irresponsible. I'm learning. I'm finishing my test on the subway. She would ride that subway to every borough to finish her homework because the lights were on.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And, you know, and she just was surrounded by irresponsibility, and she made a choice and a decision never to be irresponsible, to be responsible, not blame anybody. And she's like, okay. She really took it is what it is.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And she's like, now what am I going to do about it? I'm not going to be those people, and I'm going to. To help young people who have been in the same situations as me and have such respect for her. And she loves her life. She loves waking up every day, making a real difference in. In being comforting and loving and supportive to others that need her, you know?

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. And so much of what you said resonates, and specifically, even hearing about how. How each of you were in these situations where it's like, every experience I had, every relationship I had made me who I am. Getting to bear witness to the people that your parents surrounded you with. It takes a village. It really takes. It really takes a village. And in. That is just the way you're describing your life. And even her life in this woman is like, it takes a village. All of those experiences shaped her and something I feel very passionate about, which is very nerdy in the comedy community. I'm very passionate about improv because it made me, I think, a better person, a better listener, better. But the tenet of it being yes. And. And I use that in my commencement speech at usc, which also might have been corny, but I was like, life is gonna throw things at you. And what are we gonna do?

[Nicole Avant]

And what are we gonna do? Yes, and always. Yeah, this is reality. And I think it, it doesn't do anyone a favor when we say, you know, everything. If you just pray for it and you just say I'm going to manifest, everything's going to work out perfectly. It doesn't, you know, I just said to somebody the other day, some, I was speaking at, you know, a conference and young girl said, you know, but everything went wrong today. And I said, oh, you had a Murphy's Law day. She looked at me like I had 20 heads. What? I said, Murphy's Law. She didn't know, you know, when everything that could go wrong does go wrong. And it was, no, it's not supposed to be this way because I declared this morning, I go, no, that's not life, that, that, you know, sometimes it works out. Yeah, but sometimes it doesn't. And it's always yes and yeah, but it really is.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And until there's no more, it just, it is. And I think I really do see that there is a shift or I do see a hunger of the, the new 18 year olds, 24 year old who do want this. They do want to have some type of muscle that can help them withstand the storms that will come. And I think that we have to really paint a real picture for young people that life is a gift and life is beautiful. But it's also at many times hard and unkind and unfair. But it doesn't mean it's not worth living. Right. You know, I mean, we were born to be alive. That's why we're here. So be alive and live the best that you can. But it doesn't mean it's an easy path.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. Being alive entails all of it. The good, the bad, the fortunate, the.

[Nicole Avant]

Unfortunate, the ups, the downs. I mean, it's a wave, you know, it's like this too shall pass. But that goes for the good and the bad. We always use it in the bad. But it's very humbling to also know when it's really great. It's also kind of humbling to realize. Yeah. You know.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Things change. Right.

[Ego Nwodim]

The way that makes me so present for the good when it's good because I've seen the bad. I'm like, I. When it's good, I like I am so. Yeah, my feet are on the ground. I can feel this. I'm remembering this moment. Feels amazing. And there's something you said about, just briefly, about your mother influencing your father and the amazing things he was able to accomplish because your mother was in his life. So I just want to speak to the millennials who aren't into getting married anymore.

[Nicole Avant]

Whatever.

[Ego Nwodim]

I just. I, I, I, I. It stuck with me because I'm like, guys, I have so many guy friends who'd be like, I just need to achieve X, Y, and Z before I can settle down with the woman. And it's like, you heard from.

[Nicole Avant]

Oh, yeah, no, the queen herself. Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

You need a good woman or partner behind you. Okay. It makes a world of difference, I think.

[Nicole Avant]

Makes all the difference in the world. When Ted and I, we got so. Everything happened very fast. We met in June of 2008. We were married by September of 2009.

[Ego Nwodim]

Wow.

[Nicole Avant]

And it was. I was going off to live in the Bahamas. You know, people are like, oh, does the ambassador have to live in the country? Yes. That's a yes. Yes, exactly. I had to move, but he couldn't move. So Teddy was always on a plane, you know, coming every two weeks. The kids were young. They were coming every two weeks. And so. So it was. But right when we got together both of our lives, we just decided, we're gonna support each other. And he was growing. And he was growing at Netflix, but he had these ideas. It was before original programming. It was before binge. It was before all of this. But I would listen to his ideas, and I would look at him, even though I didn't understand, I was like, oh, that's so cute. I don't know what you're talking about, but okay. And. But he looked at me like, this is a big deal. I go, I don't know if I want to go do this. I mean, I love. He's like, nicole, when the president asks you to do something, you know, you should. You should. You should maybe go serve.

[Ego Nwodim]

He goes, but.

[Nicole Avant]

But he. He was so great because he was a real cheerleader. And my friend Charlie both were on me of, you'll regret that you didn't do it. Yeah. Just take. It's not forever.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And you love your country, you love serving, and you love building bridges. I mean, all those things are true. And I really am a very proud American. And I loved it. I loved serving. I loved serving the government. And when I say the government, it was everybody. It was Democrats, Republicans, independent. We had to work together all day long. And you're supposed to. And with the host country, Bahamians are very conservative. And I don't think people realize that.

[Ego Nwodim]

Like, no, they're conservative. I go there on vacation.

[Nicole Avant]

What do you Mean, Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's two.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And you know, for the most part. And when I went in, it was a very conservative government and it was fine. It was like, this is. Okay, let's try to meet the middle here. We have a really great relationship. We're not going to ruin the relationship. Let's just see if we can do some. And sometimes it was a hard no.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. Okay.

[Nicole Avant]

But we tried. This is what I like doing. And so I do think it's really important to have a really great partner that you can grow with. And you don't have to have everything perfect. You don't have to have everything right there. I know so many men who've done so much better when they had someone right with them. Or women too, who have a partner who really believe in them and have a support system. And it, it, it's helpful. I mean, Ted really helped me. I mean, could I have done the job. Sure. Without Ted? Absolutely. Did Ted make it better and more fulfilling for me? 100%.

[Ego Nwodim]

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. You heard it here, guys. I'm like, let's get partnered. The youth are into it. The children are the future. When you talk about the 18 year olds and the way they're seeing their work and themselves, I'm like, I'm seeing them also. Want to be partners of millennials. Guys, let's repair. You guys have how many kids together?

[Nicole Avant]

So we have two kids. So when I married Ted, so they're my step kids, which I don't even call them my step. They're like mine. But I met Toni and Sarah when they were 12 and 14. Okay. The 14 year old was the girl. Okay. So that was fun. Tricky. But Sarah now is amazing. I mean, she's in New York.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Nicole Avant]

And she didn't like when we dropped her off there either.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And now she doesn't want to come home.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay.

[Nicole Avant]

And she loves it. And she's thriving. And New York has really made her into who she is.

[Ego Nwodim]

She is.

[Nicole Avant]

And she's a great film producer. And what I love is that I love the irony of the whole thing of Ted's Mr. You know, Netflix. And Sarah loves independent film.

[Ego Nwodim]

Oh, wow.

[Nicole Avant]

She, she can get jobs. People will want to hire on huge films. She's like, no, I want the indie film. Yeah. I believe in it. I want to raise the money. I want to raise this. And I want, I want the director to work and the. Right. She loves that. But she's got that grind. Yeah. Because I really believe New York gave her That I don't think she would have found it here.

[Ego Nwodim]

Right. May I ask what the moment is for you and Sarah? Where it went from that was challenging to we've connected, like in a movie. What was the moment where it was like, if it was like a movie, where one day you're like, we've found a really.

[Nicole Avant]

Yeah. You know, she. I have to give her credit. Sarah. Sarah's very good at owning her energy. So Sarah was. I mean, there was one day where I would always tiptoe and tiptoe, and I was like, okay, I want to make it nice. And I don't want to be. Be the stereotypical stepmom where I'm cursing them out all the time and be laughing like. And. But there was also a day, I think, where she realized I said, listen, I love you. I'm not replacing your mom. I talk to your mom all the time. There's none of that happening here. However, this is our home, but I am the adult in the home. And yes, your dad, there's two adults, but there's a woman of the home. That would be me. And we do have rules, and we do have values. And, you know, of course, she's typical teenager. Like, why am I gonna listen to you? But I think, you know, the turning point with Sarah was she actually came to me and said, you know, after, you know, out. After she moved out, and, you know, I had her doing the same thing. I'm like, you go be a waitress. You go see how it is. You have a very comfortable home. You know, you're never gonna end up on the street. But I need you to work, and I need you to work in a job where they don't pay you a lot and where people don't treat you right. And, you know, in her 20s, I mean, she wrote me a beautiful letter. And it was the change. It was the turning point, which was, you know, I know I was really shitty to you a lot of times, and I didn't appreciate you, and I really just wanted to make it hard for you. But now that I'm out of the house and now that I've grown up and now that I've changed, I really want to say thank you for not giving up on me. Thank you for believing in me and thank you for loving me. And it was Sarah who really was the one that came to it. And we've been like this ever since. I mean, she's my child. I mean, she's just. It's my girl. Yeah. And. And, you know, and Tony's so great. And we call him the Buddha baby. He's the Buddha of the family. Just so easy and so. He's just so good.

[Ego Nwodim]

Is he a water sign?

[Nicole Avant]

Tony? He's a Virgo.

[Ego Nwodim]

Okay. He's a Vir. When are you in? March, by the Pisces.

[Nicole Avant]

March 6th.

[Ego Nwodim]

March 10th. And this is why.

[Nicole Avant]

This is why. Yes. Okay.

[Ego Nwodim]

Well. Okay, Nicole, I have a segment now called that's Nice, but what About Me? Okay. And we're gonna enter that segment. You've said so many insightful, beautiful things that I'm gonna sit with and reflect upon, and so thank you for sharing that with me. I need a piece of advice. There's something you said about quitting and how you don't quit. I don't quit either. And I've been reflecting a lot lately about when to quit. And then you said, you won't stick in a space that's not aligned or that doesn't feel right. I cannot quite figure out that line now. I like math. I've realized. Yeah, I realize I like math, and sometimes I'm like, just tell me the number. Like, make it an equation. How do you decide when something is quitting or removing yourself? I know.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes. Yeah, it's hard. I have had to, each time I do it, because it's the biggest challenge for me. I really have to pray on it. And I was like, okay, you know what? At this point, I want to move. I want to do this. I think it's time, and I'm really stuck. I don't know. Because sometimes I've done it the other way where I thought it was time to move. I was frustrated. I didn't feel like I was going forward. And then I moved.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Two weeks later, I was offered the promotion that I wanted. So the timing was always off. So sometimes. But I think it's. It's. It's not that you always have to feel fulfilled, because sometimes you just won't. Even in a job you love, there will be days where you're frustrated and not fulfilled. But I think when it becomes so dreadful and you just don't. You just. Sometimes you'll just know. My energy's expired. It's not even about the job.

[Ego Nwodim]

Job.

[Nicole Avant]

My energy has just expired for. For this. And. And. But I always still would pray on it. And always, you know, I would set my intentions and I would set my goal, and then I would say, thy will be done. Just, you know, help me out here.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And for those people who don't pray, I would say or don't believe it's. I do think it's an inner energy of when you start to feel depleted. So much or so heavily burdened and zero joy that it might be okay. There's something that is. I think it's a light of. There's something else over here for you, and you really might like it. And the beauty of it is, if you're wrong, you're wrong. I mean, it doesn't mean you're a quitter. Sometimes you do just have to quit things that just don't work. But it doesn't mean quitting things and being a quitter are very different.

[Ego Nwodim]

That's a good distinction.

[Nicole Avant]

So I think that's it. If, you know, if you're not a quitter, you could still leave things. I've left a lot of things. I've left relationships where I felt like I was quitting, but I was like, no, I gave everything I could. But I know it is time for me to leave. But I also know that I'm not a quitter. That's not my personality. I don't quit on people. I don't quit on things. But it's time to go at the same time.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah, okay. I need that. That is so helpful. That is gonna sit with me because that is. It is. I do get the disgust distinction as a person who's not a quitter. And it's like, I will suffer through. I will be a martyr. And it's like joy. What about joy? What about being happy? And you'll know, you know the difference.

[Nicole Avant]

I think it's the energy balance. You know, I always try to give the 80, 20 rule. It's 80% of the time good. It's great if it's 80% of dread. And obviously you gotta go, you gotta move. It's. Even if it's 50%, then you have.

[Ego Nwodim]

To make a decision.

[Nicole Avant]

And again, sometimes the decision will work. And then sometimes you'll realize you, You. You know, I think it's the grass. What is it? You know, the grass is never greener on each side. The grass has to be watered. No matter where you are, it has to be watered.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

So, you know, I think I would say another thing with my mom would always say, you know, wherever you go, there you are.

[Ego Nwodim]

I know I'm a big one on that one.

[Nicole Avant]

That's a big one. And that. And it's true. So wherever you go, there you are. So if you like yourself, I mean, that's why we would tell Sarah, if you don't, the beauty of It. Because she hated when I said that. And I would say Sarah, but the beauty that. The beauty of that statement is that if you're happy with yourself and you actually like yourself.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And you appreciate yourself and you value yourself no matter where you are, you still have you.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Everyone can hate on you, but you still have you.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

Yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

So it's sound wisdom. It's thank you for sharing it with me. And it's something that I go back to, too. I go. I won't leave any. Even if I am going to quit a place, a thing, move on from something, I can't leave. I don't like to leave upset. And I'd like to be like, in gratitude for the experience before I do.

[Nicole Avant]

And even if it was the toughest experience which I have had and I left something I loved and I was in the record business, I was in my 20s, and I loved it, but it was time to leave. And even though I had a tough experience with people, I had gratitude for their behavior because it made me a better person. And it always makes me think, oh, I never want to. To be like that. Thank God I'm not like that. Thank you.

[Ego Nwodim]

I know everything else sometimes you go, thank God.

[Nicole Avant]

Thank God I'm not like that. But also, it just, It. It does help you at least just have gratitude for the situation. If they gave you great, great. If they gave you good, great. Even if they gave you bad, it's still good because hopefully you can just pull the lesson and pull a blessing. Yeah. And I had a really tough boss and she was not kind and not patient, but damn, she was smart. And I. Even though I left and it was grinding every day and it was very Devil Wears Prada. Oh, yeah.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

But she gave me so many skills that I have used throughout my life because I was watching her. I was learning from her. And she didn't need to be nice or kind or anything. She wasn't. She was actually quite cruel. And. But I learned so much. So I just decide, okay, I'll take that. I'm not going to take her personality.

[Ego Nwodim]

I don't have to do that.

[Nicole Avant]

But I'll. But I will take what. What she was. She was brilliant.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah.

[Nicole Avant]

And I learned a lot from her.

[Ego Nwodim]

So I'll take that. Yeah, that's. That's wise. That is wise and that's smart to go. I'm seeing a lot that I don't care for. But what is this teaching me? And you. You said something to that effect earlier, too, about the lessons you can take from unpleasant experiences. So making that. Making that the goal, even in an unpleasant experience, it's like there's something here I could learn always if what I don't want to be, it can be this person is not how I want to be. But, boy, are they smart or like, you know, or business savvy. So there's always a takeaway. Yeah. Nicole. What joy.

[Nicole Avant]

Oh, this is so good. Thank you so much for having me.

[Ego Nwodim]

Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. People get. Think you'll be happy anywhere you get books with a new forward by your husband.

[Nicole Avant]

Yes.

[Ego Nwodim]

Ted Sarandos.

[Nicole Avant]

I'm.

[Ego Nwodim]

I have a copy waiting for me. I'm spoiled. I can't wait to read it.

[Nicole Avant]

Heads forward is beautiful.

[Ego Nwodim]

Yeah. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for being here.

[Nicole Avant]

Thank you for having me.

[Ego Nwodim]

That was my conversation with Nicole Avant. I am in awe. There is a lot for me to reflect on. I am. Am so grateful to have gotten to sit with her and hear from her and by way of her hear from her parents in a. In a sense, and hear what was important to them and how they were raising their children in such a beautiful and thoughtful, really, really thoughtful way. I'm inspired and I'm really, really glad I didn't try to lean into jokes too much on this episode because as you heard up top, top, some of my jokes are bad. And so I stuck to being, like, mostly earnest. Mostly earnest. And I did that for the sake of the conversation and for the sake of my name, frankly, in comedy. And anyway, I just loved it. I hope you did, too. If you want advice from me and my guests, please call us. Call me. Leave a voicemail. I'm not going to pick up. I'm sending you straight to voicemail, but the number is 502-849-3237. I look like I'm reading a teleprompter. I'm not. That's not the top of the down, baby. That's the number. 502-849-3237. That's 502. Thanks, dads. You get it.

[Nicole Avant]

All right.

[Ego Nwodim]

See you next time. Thanks dad. Is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and I Heart Podcast. I'm your host, Ego Woda. Our producer is Kevin Bartelt, and our executive producer is Matt Apodaca.

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[Ed Helms]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual, coffee, lucky socks and now new Morning Uncrustable sandwiches. It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or up and apple flavors. Bright Eyed Berries got a feisty receiver energy up an apple. Your classic Do it all tight end, soft, pillowy, packed with protein and easy enough for Gronk to grab from the freezer. Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, new Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP of snacks.

[Nicole Avant]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here.

[Ed Helms]

With new Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

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You know what a girl's best friend is? Not diamonds.

[Nicole Avant]

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From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a fiery new legal drama.

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[Ego Nwodim]

You can't afford to miss.

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Make it ring Showtime ladies.

[Eva Longoria]

Stand up straight and breeze into that room like a storm no one saw coming.

[Ed Helms]

Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply.

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Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs that doesn't just sparkle but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship or a heartfelt gift for a family member, say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store this is an iHeart podcast.

[Nicole Avant]

Guaranteed Human.