← That UFO Podcast
That UFO Podcast
1: Jason Samosa Part 2: The Collins Elite, Hybrids & The Disclosure Control System
01:10:12
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- [00:00]
A
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B
Jason, we're still here. You know, there's been seconds have passed. Collins elite is a popular phrase. Now, you've talked about them here going back well into the 40s and, you know, even beforehand, but it's become popular again. Is this largely because of where we are with the topic, do you think, at the moment, with Congress digging into this, with talks of factions within the government controlling things, is that why the Collins elite as an idea has become more prevalent in the conversation?
- [01:02]
C
Yeah, I think that. I mean, there are many reasons why it's prevalent. I think obviously, if there's a push for disclosure, which there clearly has been, there's going to be certain people resisting it. Some of those people are going to be sort of industrial people, private people, but some of them are going to be religious. And the Collins elites therefore come up as a name used to describe this religious resistance. And sometimes that name is used to, I think, just generally throw onto someone who is being resistant for religious reasons. So it's sort of a bit of an amorphous term. But there's another point to this as well, which is even as we resist their resistance, as we push forwards in disclosure, there is then the question of how do we frame what's going on? And so if you're the Collins elite, if such a group exists, which I'm pretty sure it does, and you're failing to stop disclosure, then you know, you've got your backup plan, which is, okay, well, then I'm at least going to frame how disclosure works so that everyone thinks about it in religious terms. And I think that that is a very important thing to. I actually was very worried about that. I'm less worried about it now. But I still think we're only entitled to be less worried about it if we're constantly aware that falling into the trap of explaining everything as being demonic is going to lead to really, really bad outcomes for us. So there are many reasons why I think it's. It's becoming More important, but mostly because we're pushing for disclosure.
- [02:25]
B
So let's start at the beginning, then. What is the Collins Elite? Because, like you say, is it. Is it a term? Is it a group? I think quite often when I hear something like the Collins Elite or the radical Christians in the US Government, I imagine that they have a meeting room. It says on the door, collins Elite. There's a big table with X number of seats. And they come and they sit and have a chat and go, cool. So this is the July meeting of the Collins Elite. What's going on just now? That's probably not the case. So can you. Can you kind of bring us up to speed?
- [02:55]
C
Yeah. To be honest, if they. If they had a formalized structure like that, I think it'd be, you know, quite. Quite interesting. I suspect, given what they're doing and the influence they have, it's probably covert. Although I said, you know, they obviously do have to meet. Still, the interesting thing about the Collins Elite, because everyone whispered about it here and there in different interviews and stuff, and I'm sure other people are similar to me. I became immensely curious about what. What is this? I still remember the first interview where I heard it, and I didn't even know what was said. So I. I wrote in the. The chat, underneath the YouTube video, I was like, does anybody know what. And I. I completely misspelled it. And they were like, oh, you mean the Collins Elite. And that's the first time I actually saw the spelling. I was like, wow, what a strange name. Sounds so mysterious. So then I did what I think most people have done next, which is I bought the book. There's a book by Nick Redfern called Final Events, where, as I. As I mentioned earlier, he claims that he came across these people in the Air Force who believed the UFO phenomenon was fundamentally demonic. And so he got in contact with them and they were willing to speak with him. And they told him in the history, the whole history. So there was a guy called Robert Manners, Mr. Manza, I forget all the names, but they. They had a variety of sort of COVID names. We didn't get the real names. And these people told him, oh, yeah, Richard Duke was one of them. These people told him that going back to the 40s, when the UFO phenomenon had first appeared, there was concern that it was actually some sort of occult demonic phenomenon, that it wasn't necessarily extraterrestrial. And they claimed that all of these correlations were popping up, including the fact that Jack Parsons was doing these rituals in the desert, but also Other things, like when there was that wave in 1952, they claimed Jack Parsons had died having done some magical experiment which had led to this explosion, and he died. And then like a few weeks later, the UFO phenomenon appears over dc. So they were claiming there's these correlations. I think the correlations are, frankly, nonsense. Like, like I, I mentioned earlier that the ceremony that Parsons did was in 1946. The UFO phenomenon is all over America in 1947. It's a year later, and it's spread geographically beyond where the thing happened. So, you know, I just think, come on, that's this. We can't pin everything on that. But not only that, a lot of the other correlations they talk about where they're like, look, there was a group of Parsons devotees in this particular area. And then the ufo phenomenon happens 100 miles away, and it's like, really 100 miles. So there's lots of stuff like this. But the truth is, this is what I find really interesting about this. The case built in the book, I think is pretty weak. But the truth is there does seem to be a huge correlation with the occult. And I, you know, some great examples would be the whole psionics thing or even, you know, to use Stephen Greer as an example with the CE5 thing. Like, yeah, there's significant questions about what's really going on there now, but there's always been this idea that if you tune into a certain level of your consciousness, certain barriers break down and you might get access to things. And, and just thinking about Jesse Michaels, talking about he did some holotropic breath work and that's when he saw one of the UFOs that he's seen. So I think we should be very open to the idea that a change in the state of consciousness may make these things appear or rather may remove the barriers by which we normally don't see them. And so I do think there's a correlation, but the way it's explained in the book is a little bit, Little bit silly anyway, just. Just to talk about, you know what
- [06:24]
B
that reminds me of, Jason. It's a little bit, you know, they've been able to access things that you shouldn't be able to. Sometimes I hit the wrong combination of keys on my MacBook and it brings up code on the right hand side, like back office stuff. And I go, oh, I don't know what that is, what it means, but I know what to do with running this MacBook. I want rid of that because I shouldn't be seeing that. That is not for me. And that's what I kind of think of for that kind of stuff, where I'm like, oh, now and again you get to see the administrative side of the. The computer. And that is not for me. I just want to see the user interface. I want to see the basic stuff that I can point and click and type and everything else is kind of not for me.
- [06:59]
C
I love that. It's like the, the secret code under reality that I never realize is there and suddenly it appears. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is actually being run in a completely different way. Yeah, it's exactly like that. So I, you know, it seems that that, that's. That's advocated by very sensible people. And. Yeah, so I'm open to that. Anyway, the Collins elite then present this theory. And the. The whole idea is that the. The occult correlation is coming because people have summoned evil entities into the world. And there's this claim that Jack Parsons was born on the day that this Christian person claimed was the day that the end times would begin. And so it's like that he was the Antichrist who was born on this day. But the, the prediction made by that group of Christians was complete nonsense. So it's like, why. Why are we putting validation on that? But the whole idea is that the end times are now here. Parsons appears, he summons the S. Entities and they've broken through into our reality. And that this is the deceptive End Times thing, because Satan and his hordes are playing one final trick on humanity. And the trick is this. We're gonna masquerade as an extraterrestrial intelligence. We're gonna come and tell you that all of your religions were wrong. Christianity wasn't quite right. Here's how the universe really works. And they're going to trick us into believing that like, sort of Antichrist belief system. And so, you know, it sort of then integrates with the biblical view of the end times. And so that's the whole idea of the Collins Elite. And to be very clear here, right, what Redfern is describing sounds like a special access program before that terminology was used. And the reason I say that is because it came from the directorates of planning, I think is what it's called the. The same directorate where things like Operation Mockingbird, MK Ultra, Operation Gladio were funded from which these are extraordinarily sensitive operations. And so the way it's set up, it sounds like a very sensitive operation that's getting black budget funding to. To study this. So you've got this program that's set up from the Air Force and is, is running. But here's where the Collins Elite gets confusing, okay? Because you've also got all of these evangelical Christians who are in government and in the Defense Department, who people say they're the Collins Elite. But a lot of these people, frankly, would have no business being part of this highly sensitive special access program looking into like occult technology and all of this stuff. And it doesn't make sense that all of these people are part of that. It's not. It's not how these programs work. And so in my research, I looked into the Family Network. Valet had given some hints about this. The Family Network is this big evangelical network that exists across government and in the DoD, in, even in the White House, in Congress, in the Senate. They've had people in this network now for about a hundred years who basically act. The original vision was to create an invisible mafia. That was the terminology used across government, effectively giving this organization the ability to push its own agenda in a big way. That's somewhat invisible. So it's a little bit deceptive. They view it as, we're Christians, we need to make sure God's will's being executed. People associated with the Family include James Baker, who is the chief of staff for Ronald Reagan, and Alonzo McDonald, who's the chief of staff or staff director for Carter. Both of those presidents got UFO briefings. Both of those people knew about those briefings. In fact, James Baker, according to Redfern, sat in on a Reagan briefing on UFOs where he was exposed to the Collins Elite theories, which they really liked. The reason I point this out is to show the Collins Elite ideas very likely got infused into this Family Network. And so you've got a sensitive government program and an informal non government network intersecting and becoming kind of one thing. And so the spread of this theory and the spread of these Christians spreading these ideas grows through the Family Network is what it looks like. But there's another component as well as a third factor, because Valet and his colleagues suggest that the Collins Elite may have emerged from Fordham University. This is where it gets really confusing, because the Family network starts in 1930. The Collins elite program in the Air Force starts in the late 40s. The Fordham University strand starts in the 60s and 70s, according to Valet. So it's a little bit confusing, but here's what I think is going on. Fordham University is a very high establishment university, but it's also a Catholic university. And Catholicism also has a stake here. The Catholic Church has always resisted every single Revolution that's come its way, scientific revolutions, people were put to death or locked up. Philosophical revolutions, theological revolutions like the Protestants coming out, they literally fought wars to try and stop this other theological movement. And then of course you have the political revolutions in the 1800s with Napoleon and the French and American revolutions. The Vatican was opposed to those because it threatened their traditional model of power. So important to recognize the Catholic Church will always resist change. The biggest revolution that they've always been facing has been non human experiences that challenge the theology that they're built on. That's why if you go through history, you look at for example, Fatima, when Fatima occurred, the Catholic Church immediately reinterpreted what people claimed was a silvery disc in the sky, became the sun. So they, they changed this, this tantalizing situation into something more manageable. If you look at the witch's sabbat, which is where these, these people were getting effectively abducted by what they thought were witches and having these experiments done. It was a early abduction phenomenon. Essentially they were told anyone who's involved in that is demonic and they were basically put to death. And you know, there's so many examples here where any time a non human experience challenges the, the Vatican's message, it gets constrained and reformatted. So when it comes to the 20th century, the UFO wave is growing. What is the Vatican going to do? Are they going to acknowledge this and deal with it openly, or is it more advantageous for them to spread this demonic hypothesis and to try and prevent people from engaging with it, saying too dangerous, we can't study this. We must ensure that no one else looks at it either. And that the, the kicker for me is this. The person who was running the Air Force Office of Special Investigations in the era when it started, the original Collins elite programs, this is the 40s, the one that Redferns refers to was a devout Roman Catholic who actually had really wanted to go into the ministry, but was encouraged by some powerful people to not go into the ministry but instead go into intelligence. And so this is an individual who fundamentally, first and foremost answers to the Pope, answers to religious groups rather, rather than the Air Force or the President. That's, that's really what's going on here. I think his name was General Francis Carroll. I don't think it's out of the question that when this whole Collins elite project might have started or something like that in the Air Force, the Catholic Church would have found out about it and they would have thought, yeah, actually we're going to spread this theory because this is Beneficial to us. We, we would rather people believe that it's all demonic, that it's not as complicated as it really is. And so I'm putting pieces together here. But on balance, all of these groups have the same motivation, which is silence the UFO discussion because it threatens the models that their theology is built on. And there's another component here where we can talk about the Deep State, which I think is also important. So one of the biggest things that I became very aware of was all of these so called devout Christians who, who were, you know, talking about the need to maintain the Christian identity of the nation and were the sorts of people connected to the groups who were disseminating these ideas. They were also deeply involved in the Deep State. Many of them were involved in Iran Contra. Many of them like one of them, Chuck Colson, Charles Colson, who ended up going to prison for Watergate. You know, it's a real criminal who was spreading some of these ideas. So, you know, when it comes to looking at these people who claim to be deeply concerned about the Bible and making sure God's word is fulfilled, these are the same people running some of the deepest, darkest scandals associated with our government. And in my final piece in the Collins lead, I, I made a point of saying they look less like a group of Bible believing Christians and more like a group of Deep State thugs. And I do think that I would love to ask some of the people who really know about this, how they view it. Do they view the Collins elite as just religious people trying to do their best, or for them, is it this weird Deep State hybrid that's leveraging religion as a weapon to try and fulfill its own objectives? And you know, I, I've begun to see it more as the second part.
- [16:08]
B
It's really interesting. I appreciate the, the kind of depth you've went into there. Like one of the first things that jumps out to me is if you have this group, which, and I know you're trying to differentiate there, that it's not necessarily a group of, you know, Bible loving extremist Christians more, it's more Deep State, more intelligence, but as a closed off group that you need that religious background to do it. Again, could, could a Muslim or a Sikh or, you know, is it very much a closed group? And if that's then the case, would it not make sense that other religious groups would have something similar themselves? Is that anything you've came across?
- [16:47]
C
Yeah, a lot of folks have reached out to me by email or in the comments saying, you know, you need to look into the Islamic side of this. And you know, I certainly would expect that every religion is going to have its own stance of the phenomenon. And for those religions that have very rigid theology, any, any sort of non human contact can undermine that by you know, giving people sort of direct access to information rather than through, through a book. So I would suspect there's a general reticence on religious groups to be open to non human encounters. People may say I'm wrong about that. I've not researched every religion in depth on this.
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B
Shame on you.
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C
Yeah, I know, I, it's, it's not good.
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B
Well, time now Jason. Come on, it's up your game.
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C
It's like I need to turn it up. Yeah, I'm going to read all the scriptures as soon as I can. But you know, I, I, I do think that in general is there a formalized group? No, I, I think it's this, this sort of weird network and I'll give you a great example of where the network is, is particularly sort of loose. I think it's in the Reagan administration where you've got, the Reagan administration receives a briefing from Collins elite figures from the program. It also has many people in high ranking positions from the family and also has lots of very senior like Knights of Malta Catholic people all intersecting with some different views and then just loads of deep state people. So like sort of Rockefeller establishment type people. The thing is I, I think they all just interlock and support each other because they have very similar objectives. I, I think that you know, the reason that these religious groups would have ended up, I, I don't want to say the religious groups were involved in like Iran Contra, but people from those groups end up in Iran Contra water scandals is because they're willing to go along with the deep state line and because that, that, that the way that they think they're very conservative mentality completely suits the existing establishments mentality. So yeah, only some of them are religious but ultimately it's, it's all, they have the same trajectory and philosophy and mindset as the rest of the sort of deep states. So I think they kind of fuse into it quite nicely.
- [19:04]
B
We'll perhaps touch on them again. Well, we will touch on them again throughout this as we get up to more modern times. But during part one we were speaking through the 40s to the 70s, 80s and 90s UFO conversation changes again and we touched on abductions and like you said there were earlier examples of abductions but it becomes a major part of the subject. Hybrids is one that you wanted to Bring up. And when we were speaking beforehand around this conversation, I want to know your take on. Because what we seem to have got through those decades now is ET's flying saucers, perhaps some element of psychedelics or psychosis control. You mentioned MK Ultra. We're now at a point in the 80s and 90s where even the public are quite aware of alien abductions, the idea of hybrids. We've had multiple TV shows and movies, you know, kind of showcasing that idea at that point. What about the, that narrative with the, the idea of demons coming into this. And these are, these beings are dangerous, they're not just coming from other planets. What's kind of happening around that time scale?
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C
Do you, do you mean specifically in the 90s or 80s?
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B
90s. That, that just generally general time, I think, and I think I suppose a big aspect of that is TV shows and movies. I've had a lot of exposure now to the UFO topic at that point.
- [20:28]
C
Yeah, I, I, A while ago I was doing an interview with someone and they were like, what's your favorite fictional depiction of the phenomenon and why? And I was so embarrassed that I couldn't even think of one because I just don't really watch that much sort of movies or TV stuff. I'm just, you know, always geeking out on like weird things. So, you know, on that side I'm, I'm less strong. But I think, you know, to come back to the Reagan administration on the, on the kind of the fear and the sense that something bad might be happening. There's this interesting thing that happens in the 80s, which is on the one hand you have the emergence of the Satanic panic, which I've always found fascinating. This huge surge in this kind of Christian culture saying this music's demonic, these demonic entities are trying to get in. Don't let your children, like later on they would be like, don't let your children watch Pokemon. It's like, it's like black magic, this whole culture of like fear about anything which could be associated with the occult and the implications it could have. And I, I've always been fascinated with that, of course, as someone who was Christian, as someone who's interested in these topics. But it now studying the Collins elite and looking at this trajectory, I look at that and I think what a perfect fever to create. If you are someone who believes that this is demonic and you do believe the occult may create more sort of more of these phenomenon and you want to control that. Well, I don't want to have to build a system into people's lives. But what if I spread fear through the culture by creating this satanic panic and making people terrified of engaging with the occult? So I find that very interesting in the 80s. And simultaneously, whilst you've got this kind of how do we create fear on the planet up in space, simultaneously Reagan is building. Reagan's like flying up there, constructing it like a dad building a shed. But you know, he's funneling huge amounts of money into industry to build the, the Star wars system, the Strategic Defense Initiative, this fast, you know, space based defense system, ostensibly to try and create sort of a new strategy in which to engage in this nuclear arms race. To say like, look, it's not just mutually assured destruction, maybe we can actually build defenses. But so much testimony has come out over the years from people who have had access suggesting that the real purpose of that program was to build a huge system to defend against the phenomenon. And you know that Tom delong was very big on that when he was initially speaking with his advisors. Early interviews again and again he talks about how everyone came together and built this huge defense system and that it actually worked and it was successful. So anyway, interesting whenever you think of DeLonge that people come out and say this, but then there's also. Recently we've had this missing scientist thing. Right. Well, if you go back to the Star wars project, 22 scientists mysteriously died whilst this thing was being built. And I mean in total missed like really confusing circumstances. And so it makes you wonder like if you're trying to defend against this phenomenon, does it bite back? Or does someone who's on the side of the phenomenon try and prevent you from doing it? Are they sending a warning? Because you're building up here this huge defense system, you're trying to deal with it down here. So I do think that the, the actual activities going on in the 80s do depict a, a sort of a grand surge in an attempt to push back. You know, that's definitely the, the sense that I get. And then of course the Cold War ends and, and the whole atmosphere starts to shift. So. Yeah.
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B
Do you have any examples? You mentioned those 22 scientists, Jason, in mysterious ways that they, they died. Is there anything particular that stands out?
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C
God, I forget. But it was, it's not far from where I'm from here in Somerset. There was someone driving home in the early hours, like an hour away from here. And as they were doing it, they crashed in a way that didn't make any sense. It was like they crashed in, into a tree. And the body was found in some way that was like really confusing. I can't remember the details, but it was, you know, that I remember just thinking, wow, that doesn't make any sense at all. I don't remember the, the other ones. I must confess I've not looked into all 22, but the old, you know,
- [24:51]
B
self inflicted multiple bullet wounds in the back of the head type thing and
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C
all of that stuff. Yeah, very confusing. And I think also some of their behavior was confusing as well. Apparently they were, you know, acting up in weird ways. But yeah, I don't know if Jesse Michaels mentioned it in his Missing Scientists, like he did a 90 minute deep dive on that, so it might be on there.
- [25:12]
B
I'm still going to get to obviously Delong, the 2000s TTSA. Where for you does that the hybrid program come into this conversation? That's something that's been popular recently. But the idea of hybrids, hybridizations and kind of dangers around that.
- [25:27]
C
Yeah, I became really interested in this because enough significant people were clearly highlighting that this was a real thing but that it couldn't be spoken about. So three examples that came up that struck me. Number one was delong. When delong came out, he was talking about how he's talking with his advisors and then he said, as soon as I asked a question about hybrids, they stopped responding. And I was made aware that this was not something I was supposed to be talking about yet. So it's just like not a permitted conversation. Then you had John Ramirez. When John Ramirez first came out, he said, everyone's waiting for Elizondo to talk about hybrids, the fact that we're all hybrids. But he said it's not allowed to be talked about yet. There's a time constraint on that. And then in Valet's journals, there's a conversation he has with Diana Pasoa where he says they have told her not to talk about the hybrid issue yet. So you just have a lot of independent people here who are all connected to people in the know, indicating that this is a conversation that's yet to come. And I like to talk about Elizondo's seven course meal analogy, which I think is very helpful also. Very helpful now because everyone's complaining. They're like, why? Why? We got this scientific board. It's all so slow. And it's like, yeah, well, I'm sorry, but any government disclosure is going to go through an extraordinarily slow and laborious process. It just is.
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B
Yeah, bureaucracy is going to take over.
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C
Exactly. They've got a messaging strategy, organizations I've worked for which have 400 employees. If we're going to communicate something to the organization that's sensitive, we meet up and talk about how we're going to do it. So now imagine the largest organization on earth dealing with the most sensitive issue ever and it's going to communicate it to the entire population. Do you not think there's going to be a vast, really thoughtful communication strategy? Of course there's going to be.
- [27:15]
B
And not just that you would think, or at least hope, and again, we are speaking from the UK perspective here, that the US this is not a US phenomenon, this is a worldwide phenomenon that they are going to have to through back channels or whatever. And I always like to think that the people who really run things, not presidents and militaries, there are folks who have constant access via whatever methods to China, to Russia, to the the US the UK and they literally pick up the phone and there's no geopolitical tensions. It's literally, look, we're going to disclose, blah, blah, blah, there needs to be some sort of larger communication base for this. Surely not that the current United States administration wouldn't necessarily be the one to just come out and go, blah, blah. And no, I've not consulted anyone else to be fair.
- [28:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly right. There'll be some kind of back channels going on to make sure everything's aligned. And you know, as part of that, then this seven course meal analogy I think is really instructive because we can see what the courses have been. For those of us who've been just deep into this for a while, it was, wow, there's some inexplicable data out there. You know, seems to be objects. Whose could it be? You know, is it Russia or China? We don't think it's Russia or China or American. It's interesting. What could it be? And then it's like, could it be alien? Well, I don't know. That's one of the hypotheses. And then you get to some of them are crashed. Wow, interesting. Some of them are crashed and we collected them. And you keep moving along bit by bit. Now it seems to me that somewhere ahead on this series of courses we're getting might be the hybrid conversation. But here's the issue and I really think this is like such a good thought experiment. What happens when you talk about hybrids? Because the moment you begin to talk about UFOs and you talk about them being here and hybridization, then it raises questions. One of the questions might be, wait a second, how are we able to be hybridized with non human species unless we share some genetic material, unless we're related to them. Are we related to them? When did that start? Okay, so now I'm questioning our entire history and I'm questioning religion, but most importantly, most importantly, now I'm questioning everyone on the planet. How human and how non human are you? What happens to human rights when some of us are partially non human? What happens to the geopolitical conflicts and the racial war and the genocides and all of the insane stuff going on on the planet when it turns out that there's now another layer on top of your mythologies, on top of your religions, there's now an objective genetic layer by which to differentiate people and potentially put them on a spectrum. And maybe people over that side of the world have a different type of non human DNA because they've interacted with different non humans. Whereas we've got this. And maybe that thing I just told you is a mythology. I'm telling you in the midst of all this confusion, because I'm going to exploit this moment of confusion about what it means to be human to fulfill my awful geopolitical agenda to force you to go to war against a group of people who it turns out are not bad, but I'm going to accuse them of having genetic material that's connected to this awful thing. And this is why in Valet's journals, and I'm not sure he's referring to this, but there's a moment in Forbidden Science, Volume 6 where he says, we all agreed that disclosure would, would be dangerous and would, would just lead out of control and that no one would be able to, to halt the trauma, the trauma of maybe realizing that we met. Many of us on the planet are different. So I, I had in my notebook, I, I have like a notion where I store all my notes and I keep track of everything I'm thinking about and learning. And I had this section on hybrids and I was just dropping stuff in there and I just thought, yeah, whatever, I'm not interested in the hybrid thing. It's kind of boring. I, and I came out the other end and I was just like, oh my goodness. I think this might be the shocking. It might be one of the most shocking components of disclosure is, and it might be one of the reasons why it just probably we can't have access to all the information. And I, I would add a couple of extra details here. Firstly, you might be sitting there thinking, well, this sounds a bit far out, right? It's a lot of Speculation. Firstly, don't. Don't forget that what happened In World War II, the genocides that happened then, were based on a hierarchy of race. And there was a mythology then about different races and root races that had emerged and had led to these insane actions. So do not underestimate the power of the government coming out and validating that there's a racial hierarchy, which is not what they would intend to do, but it's one of the implications of this, that there would be differentiation here, that it might lead to extreme outcomes. That's number one. Number one. Number two, you might be thinking, well, yeah, okay, I can understand that. But is. Is this hybrid thing really real? Go back and listen to the UFO hearings from about a year ago, maybe it was a year and a half ago, where representative. I forget her name, but she's really disliked. So she's.
- [32:18]
B
She's a. Lauren Bober.
- [32:19]
C
Lauren Bober. There you go. All you need to say is, I
- [32:23]
B
knew who you meant immediately.
- [32:24]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't like her, but what's important here isn't whether you like her is the fact that she was asking a question based on information she'd received. And she asked them, she said, it has come to our attention on the Hill that there is a secret genetic program where there is an attempt to augment human DNA with non human DNA potentially with a view to create hybrids. Is, you know, can you confirm or deny that? And, you know, the fact that she asks such a specific question implies that she and other people have been told about that recently. Matt Gaetz came out and talked about it. Frankly, a lot of people are beginning to talk about this and the implications of it are really, really profound.
- [33:07]
B
Have you seen the idea that is it the CIA have used like 23andMe and ancient ancestry and, you know, all these things. Find out you're 10% Norwegian, 20% Mexican, 30% Scottish, and they're literally using this sort of stuff to get everyone's data to find out. Actually, you know, Jason, you have got NHI genetics. Andy, you don't. And that. And you know, again, as wildly speculative as that is, that would be a very, very good way to do that data collection.
- [33:38]
C
I do not think it's speculative. You know, I actually think. I think that it is a very. It would be a classic move by the CIA or any, any organization to create a product which gives them access to what they need. The same thing they did with Facebook, right? They wanted to build a web of information on people's details, and so they created A tool which appeared to be a service for the end user, but was actually turning the end user into a product. I think exactly the same thing. And I think it makes a huge amount of sense even, even in a world where the hybrid thing is bs. Frankly, there are many reasons why the intelligence community would want to build a huge map on genetics and people's DNA for all sorts of different reasons. So I do think, yes, that's something. And I, I, I suspect in, in view of this program, probably very important and you know, who knows, when people talk about my labs, military abductions, definitely think those are a real thing potentially. You know, maybe they identify people with particular unique DNA and they want to very quickly just get access to them, you know, and maybe in a context doing some sort of abduction or some sort of weird thing doesn't have to involve a spaceship or a, you know, any of these other illusions they might put on. But that's, that's interesting. There's, there's two other things I'd mentioned on the hybrid, hybrid thing which I, I think are things that we don't talk about enough. Number one is this hierarchy of beings which appears in Elizondo's book. It also appears in Pasalka's book. The idea is there's this, this idea that there's, there's God, then there's angels, then there's off world beings, and then there's groups of people in the intelligence community who appear to be higher up the food chain and then there's normal people. That is an idea that's been disseminated through some of these books that I think is absolutely terrifying. Firstly because it's introducing the religious component again. It's like angels. Really? Why are we calling them angels? Or shouldn't we call them something else that's non religious? But then you've also got this idea that there's some people on the planet who are superior to other people and that they're associated with the intelligence community. When Pasalka asks Timothy Taylor and says, explain to me what that is, and he just says connect the dots. I don't know what that means, but it would seem to me that there might be a hybrid component on the planet that the intelligence community is aware of and maybe works with that, that is a little bit further up the food chain than us would be the way I would connect those dots. So it's a very terrifying thought. Again, in, in Elizondo's book, a similar model is, is, is suggested in his conversations with Jim McCaskey. Jim McCaskey is a Catholic, so, you know, maybe it makes more sense for him to have that model. But whatever. The. The other thing I'd point out is in delong and Lavender's Secret Machines, I think it's the man book, the second one, there's a really significant thing that shared and it's really unfortunate. Very few people have read those books and talk about them. But in that book, one of the advisors encourages Delong and Lavender to consider whether genocides may in fact be driven by the phenomenon itself. That it might be in the interest of the phenomenon to wipe out certain genetic profiles. And I'll give you a really good example about why that might be the case. Let's go back to the witch's Sabbath that we talked about earlier. There's a group of people in the 1600s or 1700s who are experiencing this weird abduction phenomenon involving like witches and demons. They don't know what it is. That group of people may have a genetic component which is making them more likely to have those experiences. There is an argument, and again, I can talk about this in a moment. There's other anecdotal evidence that suggests that your proclivity towards non human experiences may be correlated to your genetic profile. So now all of those people experiencing this weird witch's Sabbath phenomenon, what happens to them? They get killed. And so not only is that horrible, but it's. There's a side effect here, which is it wipes out an entire lineage of people who may have had the genetic component required for those non human experiences, for those, those strange things that kind of, you know, give them this weird experience. So is. Is it possible that the phenomenon or even certain actors may have an interest in wiping out certain genetic profiles because those genetic profiles are more inclined to have certain experiences which they don't want them to have? Or could it be that, you know, if human beings genuinely are hybrids and maybe we do have some real magic inside of us, maybe our real destiny is tied to some race or beings who are in some ways are powerful or divine. Maybe there's another part of the phenomenon that wants to slowly curb away that genetic material, slowly do away with its power and its capabilities so that we're easier to manage. And I don't know that that's the case, but I. The fact that it was suggested in DeLonge and Lavender's book by advisors, you know, we're talking about McCasland and Hayden and all of these people is to me very concerning about how we view our modern state of geopolitics. So there's a lot of stuff in this hybrid conversation that deserves, I think more, more consideration.
- [39:09]
B
One famous statement that would immediately help clarify for me is Bob Bigelow on 60 Minutes saying they're here already. They walk amongst us. If it's again, if it's literally us. And again, does that tie in with Avi Loeb's point around the von Neumann probes? You know, we are the nhi, some of us are the nhi. And I can completely see your, your thinking and the point around if that is a part of this topic that it's. And this is something that I just don't subscribe to the idea and I know a lot of influence the UFO celeb types like to do the whole, yeah, just come out and tell us everything. We can handle it. I would wager that we couldn't handle it as a species. Everything we, we couldn't. Because when you go really deep in the weeds, yeah, I think we could handle the we are not alone. The confirmation that there's something else out there from a government could would be fine. But it's the deeper conversations that then come from that over time. It wouldn't happen within weeks, months or years. You're probably looking at decades or even centuries afterwards before you got down to those conversations. So like if that was the case, and I even think of things like, you know, the world of Harry Potter where you've got, they all look human, but some of them are also wizards. But then you get some of them that are born into Hermione for the, I read the books as a kid, like Hermione is a Muggle, but she's a really skilled wizard. So she was kind of brought into the world and she's not liked by some of the wizards because they're like, you're not kind of pure blood type thing. And then you've got wizards that come in who don't mind that and then you've got the mixing of these people. There are obviously far more sinister examples of that throughout history. You mentioned the Nazis and what happened there as well and various other civilizations throughout time where you probably would see a natural separation of oh I, I feel special. I've got this NHI component to me. And like maybe that does mean you've got some either power ability and does that mean you've also got folks who are kind of like NPCs kind of non playable characters who are just you, you're just human. And that no longer becomes a special or unique thing. It does become a lesser thing on the totem pole that. That hierarchy, which would be a really interesting way to kind of view it. My favorite question I ever asked on the podcast, but I would love to get a better answer for, was to George Knapp when I asked him if he knew that the US Government or parts of it could bring on abduction experiences if they could trigger them. Because we often hear about them being able to summon UFOs. You can put nuclear material or you can set certain frequencies, but can they. Can they bring on an abduction experience? And I don't mean they fly along in their own triangle and abduct someone, but literally they can set circumstances or whatever it may be that someone gets abducted. They can call almost like an intergalactic Uber, you know, via. And that was nap. Was very much like, I don't want to go into that because it's a really dangerous part of the conversation. Wow. Wasn't a no, but very much. He was like, yeah, that's. That's not what I'm going to go into. So I would always love to know more about that.
- [42:25]
C
Yeah. Yeah. I guess in the, in the, in the sense that you can do summoning or psionics. Right. If you can make one of these things appear, could you then trigger it to. To do. But that, that's, that's very disturbing. Yeah.
- [42:37]
B
A particular function, you know, as a. There's a control system, an aspect of it is that abduction experience, whether it's a conscious one, whether it's a physical one, and that, you know. Yeah. That certain circumstances, this piece of equipment that's genetic profile all amounts to. It could mean you need a full moon, you know, has to be the third Tuesday of the month. But under this particular circumstance.
- [43:05]
C
Yeah.
- [43:05]
B
We can, we can have an abduction happen to someone. And I've always thought that would be a really fascinating aspect of it as well, and what that might pertain to.
- [43:13]
C
Yeah. I imagine people. I mean, this is. When you're in this world, I suspect you ask all of these questions, don't you, about what. What could happen and how could you exploit this or use this? So who knows? And, you know, I think Jim, Sami Van said if you knew some of the things that the government was working on, you would. You just. You can't even imagine them, you know, so.
- [43:31]
B
Yeah.
- [43:32]
C
Yeah.
- [43:33]
B
And that, that makes sense to me as well. You've brought up Tom delong a few times and he is really fascinating character in this whole conversation. When did you start digging in to Tom delong and his role and what's happening.
- [43:47]
C
It was early. I don't know exactly when it happened, but it was. I remember listening to the first interviews and, and just being kind of blown away because at first I was like, he sounds nuts. And then I was like, whoa, he really seems, the way he was speaking sounded sincere and like something wild was going on. And then I looked at the WikiLeaks emails and I was just like, oh, okay, like this, Something's going on here. So I became very interested and as I really decided to, like, stop being a passive viewer, there was a period where I would just tune in to your show and other people's shows and just listen. And it was great. But I decided I was going to, like, try and really study and take notes. The first thing I decided to do was to try and figure out what really happened with, with Delong and with to the Stars, because to me it was like, if I can find that this is a fraud, that tells me a lot of what I need to know about what's really going on here. If I find no evidence of that, if it just looks like an effort that was sort of, you know, they, they tried, they made a lot of mistakes and it didn't quite work, but it kind of did work, then that might change the way I look at it. And I, I, I came to the second conclusion ultimately. But I, I've been looking into it for a while and I, I always, you know, when I, when I'm trying to figure these things out, I get kind of obsessed because I don't have access to people. Like, I don't have access to Tom or any of the people around him. All I could do was gather every single WikiLeaks email, every single journal entry from Valet, every single, you know, interview, news article, and put them all in a huge timeline and study them all until I felt like I understood a little bit better what was going on. And it's interesting. You know, one, one thing I would say about delong is a lot of people conflates what happened into, you know, basically these people came after him and tried to use him as this mouthpiece. And I just do not think that's the case at all. A good example of that would be if you go back to 2011, there's an early interview that DeLong did with George Knapp on Coast to coast where if you listen, he talks about a lot of the same things he ends up talking about in 2017. So a lot of these ideas didn't even come from his advisors. A lot of them Came from himself. He was just reading very widely. He already had a plan to do activism pretty much back then. He created to the stars in, like, 2014. It was just called to the Stars at that point, by the way. It wasn't to the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences. And back then, it was just a multimedia project. And I think what happened is this. Okay, again, if you go to Valet's journals, he will tell you, in 2013, the people in the Valet Bigelow sort of space, that group of people heard rumors that the White House was planning something called confirmation. So it wasn't disclosure. It was this kind of middle road out of the Obama administration. We're going to try and do this. And Valet goes from being skeptical, and by the time he talks about it the third time, he's like, well, we'll just have to see how it pans out. He clearly thinks there is a plan. Now, that circle included George Knapp, George Knaps in touch with Tom DeLonge. Here's what I actually think. I think DeLong knew that there was. There was some wheels spinning, there was some momentum here, that something was going to start happening. And so I think he was like, I'm just going to go all in. I. I'm convinced from all my context that there's a push here for something to happen. And so I think he was just like, right, I'm going to accelerate my project, and I'm going to go and reach out to everyone I can. And he presented his ideas in a way, knowing that they were probably already working on this stuff and got access. And I think that his, you know, his pitch, ultimately, he probably. I don't want to claim he deceived them, but, you know, he was promoting himself as, like, the world's biggest rock star with access to the entire youth. And I think these people are aerospace experts. They're not media people. They're. They're intelligence experts. They're not people who understand, you know, the young population. And so they bought into it. And in reality, DeLong was overstretching, and the. The plan, they barely raised any money. And the reach of the books has been, frankly, very minimal. But the total impact of it has been good. But I don't think that the plan to disseminate these ideas to the youth, which was what he was proposing, really worked, which to me is a sign that this wasn't some huge conspiracy. It was just. It was just an idea that. That didn't go that well. And DeLong certainly had a lot of different Advisors, by the way, I would say that it seems to me that the people advising him didn't even agree with each other because you have the likes of Jim Semivan, Chris Mellon, were looking at some of the things that the four stars, the four star admiral, who, we don't know exactly who it is, might have been Inman, I don't know, Bobby Ray Inman. But then you also have General Michael Hayden who's a four star and they're saying things to Tom that seems more like a sort of a mythological Hollywood version of the stuff designed to engage people less maybe designed to be very, very factual. And so Melon and Sammy Van are like, why are they talking like this? And Valet's looking at it being like, I can't be involved in this. And then there's even other people who come in who, Bill Tompkins is one of them, who's one of the guys who perpetrates the most out there Nazi secret space stuff and he's speaking with delong. So I don't even think the claim that this is some kind of well orchestrated conspiracy makes sense because if I was trying to orchestrate a conspiracy to get delong to perpetrate a specific message, I wouldn't have him speaking with all of these people, I would have him speaking with one person, giving him a very clear sort of guide. But Delong takes all of these ideas, merges them with his own and then writes a bunch of novels and then him and Lavender get advice on how to write the non fiction books. And you know, I think it was a legit attempt and I think there's some very interesting things that come out of it. And right now actually what I'm working on is I think I've identified the real Maynard Consortium. So don't know if you're familiar with Secret Machines, the novel in there for those of you. Yeah, the book. A lot of people will hopefully have read it, but the novel covers a lot of ground. There's a lot of familiar stuff about flying saucers, Area 51, etc, it's, it's
- [50:05]
B
not groundbreaking but Wretch and Secret Families involvements and stuff like that. Yes, I, I audiobooks for me, I, I listened to the audiobooks, which I enjoyed.
- [50:13]
C
I did the audiobook too. Yeah. And you know what, it's a decent story, it was engaging, especially if you're into the topic. But one of the interesting things in there is this Maynard Consortium, this idea that there's, yeah, there's the aerospace companies, yes. There's the government, but there's this private thing behind it which really is controlling the situation. And that's interesting because if you read the book and you really pay attention to the sections where he's talking about that, he gives very specific details. And on the COVID of the book, for anyone who's not aware, it says this is a story based on real events. And DeLong depicted it like that. And it was actually Semi Van Jim Semi Van, who would later work with delong. He said in an interview with James Iindoli, he was like, yeah, well, you know, the, the book had some really significant things in it that were frankly astonishing. And, you know, people should really pay attention to it. James Hendoli goes, which bits are you talking about? Jim's like, I don't want to talk about that. It's like, okay, but I think the Maynard Consortium might be the big part of that. So I'm about to do a, a new series on, on that story.
- [51:17]
B
That'd be really cool. I think on the long. A couple of things you mentioned there. One, it's not unfair to think that Tom DeLonge has gone on a similar journey to many of us in this topic. If you listen to me, when I first started this six years ago, I have probably different opinions on a lot of things that I did now from then. And that includes people, people's agendas. That doesn't mean I know for certain or you know, I'm. But I allow, based on what I know, what I hear, what you see, I'll. I'll form an opinion on it. And that's how I tend to work. So again, I'll use the example of right now, David Grush as a bit of a champion for most people in the UFO topic, including myself, in terms of what he's done, what he seems to be all that stuff when we can come to Grush. But I've used, I'm running this one into the ground, Jason. But in my last few shows, I've used the Harvey Dent 2 face comment around, you know, you love you die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. And that seems to be the case with most folks and in most topics and areas. And Grush right now, is the hero, does he go down in flames or does he carry on? And in a few years time, folks are sitting here going, oh, David Grush, he was full of blah, blah, blah, blah. For whatever reason, we don't know. It's just how a lot of this stuff plays out. So like you say, delong's been involved in the topic for a long time has a lot of interest, has spoken and had a lot of people try to or directly influence him. So it makes sense he's going to know some stuff that's correct, some stuff that's wrong. And maybe he's also just formed some of his own thoughts around that. You know, here's a half truth, here's something that could make sense. And he puts them together and goes this, this is for me most likely what's the case. And that's no different I think to most of us with the UFO conversation. And then for delong, for me, what I'd love you to do is talk around this aspect too. DeLong's public story is kind of two, two fold. One, he was named and those Podesta emails. The WikiLeaks situation where John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager big into the UFO topic. We know Hillary Clinton is and the idea was she would win the presidency. No one saw Trump storming on and doing that the first time round. And she would disclose she would be the disclosure president somewhere Grant Cameron has just woken up right. With me saying that I've activated Grant Cameron and Stephen Bassett. It never happened. We know that Trump came in. The rest is history. As they say. That could be totally redundant if Trump gives a disclosure speech today. But I'm very aware of. But then you've also then got. Okay, the other shift of tact is to the stars. And we have Elizondo, Chris Melon put off Semivan, Steve justice and these guys come out and there's a. The big high level picture was aliens are real. We're going to do this series Unidentified and it's going to interview people, it's going to talk about the phenomenon in a really serious way. And it was really well done. But also we're going to fundraise and build a spaceship. We can't forget that was a claim they made because they did. That was a promise they made. Things then went awry with Two of the Stars. A few different stories out there. What, what's your take then on your right and you're like you say Tom DeLonge definitely had an interest long before he was influenced. But what happened with Tom DeLonge after two of the stars and kind of from there.
- [54:50]
C
Yeah. You know, like to go to go to the spaceship thing. I think everyone has a right to be like what happened there? But ask yourself this, okay. They were raising money to try and do this. So they were using this public Benefit Corporation thing where people were Going to buy shares. And I, I tried to buy shares, but it was so complicated. The process just didn't work because I really believed in what was going on in that moment.
- [55:12]
B
I know lots of folks station that did. That's loads of. I didn't, but I know folks that did.
- [55:17]
C
Yeah, it was, it was, you know, it's a big moment. And they raised like two, two million dollars I think in the end, once all the checks had bounced and everything. So you got to ask yourself this question. People love to throw shade at the, to the stars and there's loads of reasons to ask questions, but was it a Ponzi scheme or was it a conspiracy theory? If it was an attempt to suck up money into a black hole, then, you know, then you can make that argument and you can try and say like, they were just trying to get people's money and they were never going to do anything. But if it's a conspiracy by the government to try and control the narrative, you would never, ever use a public funding mechanism. You would fund it through the appropriate channels and control it through the appropriate channels. But they didn't do that. Like, if this is the plan in people's minds, it's like the government is trying to perpetrate a narrative on this, which I definitely do think they are trying to do, by the way, but they're trying to do it through this mechanism. And given the stakes of everything involved, why would I, as the person running this conspiracy, be like, right, I've got all these actors here and firstly, I'm going to muddy the waters by giving Tom, like, loads of contradictory people. So my message keeps getting muddled up and I'm also going to create an organization which is trying to do five different things which detracts from the, the clear goal. But now I'm going to fund it with public money, which exposes the organization in a completely new way, but also limits my ability to do what I want to do, because now there's only £2 million in the pot and I can only pay the basic bills and I've got to fire. It's a terrible idea. So choose one theory. Do you want to accuse it of being a Ponzi scheme, of trying to suck money up from the public, or do you want to accuse it of being a government conspiracy? And that's one thing I would say is, to me, it just looks like a big mistake. It just looks like they overestimated and tried to do too many things. That's. That's one thing. In terms of what happened to Tom. I think Tom won over the hearts and minds of the people that he interacted with in Valet's journals. His first encounters with Tom, he's so impressed with him. You know, he's, he just, he says he's very sincere, he's very knowledgeable, all of this. And then later on he talks about like, well, all these weird ideas are coming in. I'm not so sure about it. But you know, I think what happened is firstly there was the Hillary Clinton situation, which is to the stars was kind of tied to that. And I don't, you know, I do think Clinton was going to be, she would have, what's happening now with Trump would have happened earlier. I think that's all that would have happened, that there's an email in the WikiLeaks emails where Tom's general, General Neil McCasnan obviously, who's the lead advisor, is writing out a presidential memorandum to be sent out in the event that she wins. And it basically describes like in light of the President's STEM policy. So science, technology, engineering, maths, we're going to be doing more research into this topic. It's very important. And so we're going to be gathering a few different parts of the government to work together. And I suspect it would have been very similar to like the NASA study or something. It would have been like, let's go and find new information out there. Because this is part of confirmation, not disclosure. And delong even used those, those terms, by the way, in conversation showing that he was very clearly had the same ideas that Valet was talking about. This is not about lifting up all the dark stuff from the past and exposing people. This is about moving forwards and, and confirming alien life and all of that. What happened was obviously Trump won. There are some really interesting things about that, by the way. So think about this for a second. Humanity was on the verge of just some, some form of like disclosure movements for the first time in a major way. And that's when the biggest political upset in human history happens. That's interesting. The other interesting thing here is the. I just, I semi fan talks about the WikiLeaks emails. He says it was hacked, they were hacked by the Russians. But Samivan describes it as a hostile non state intelligence network which may have been behind the hack. So for him, he sees it as a very specific move by maybe not even a government but by a hostile intelligence network to leak this information. I think it's interesting to consider and this is something I'm still looking into, that Donald Trump's past may have more to do with the deep state and with some of these issues than people have historically realized. To give you an idea of this, this is just a bit of an off the side thing. And we'll go back to the stars. Trump. Well, there was an organization called the Mary Carter Paint Company. It was a paint company, okay. But it also had like this weird CIA stuff going on. It's tied to some weird intelligence stuff, but it's a PA Paint company. This paint company rebrands as a casino. It becomes a company called Resorts International. Never ever heard of a paint company becoming a, a real estate and resorts and casino business. But there you go. That new company acquires aerospace companies, which is really interesting, some of which NASA is using. And it also has its own private intelligence network called Intertel. Intertel. It's a very interesting private intelligence network which emerges. So you have this Resorts company, which used to be a paint company, it's buying aerospace tech, and it has its own intelligence function. Who takes over Resorts International? It's Donald Trump in the late 80s, whilst he's sitting on the board running the organization, he's sitting right next to the person who runs this hostile, sometimes hostile intelligence network called Intertel. And I just think, you know, we. I'm still teasing that story out, but I sometimes wonder, does Trump have more connections to shady private intelligence networks than we know about? And when WikiLeaks happened, whoever that hostile intelligence network is, what kinds of connections could it have? And I look at that as this weird moment where, you know, there's this intelligence network leaking these emails which has this UFO information which leads to Trump coming in, but he used to run a weird hostile intelligence network. Anyway, I'm still teasing that out, but it's just interesting piece to play with. I wonder if anyone in the know, you know, see some of that.
- [61:45]
B
Anyway, just before you go back, does that tie in then, though, down the line with, was it Trump's uncle was involved in commandeering Tesla's notes when he died? That Trump's uncle was one of the guys in the room with the intel agency who literally took all the stuff.
- [62:03]
C
Yeah, yeah. Trump's. Trump's uncle, John Trump was, I think he worked with Vanavar Bush, one of the most senior scientists in the country. Such an expert on radar that I think after the war he was asked to look at like a bunch of Nazi stuff because they were ahead on radar. And yes, he was the guy asked to study Tesla's notes after, after he died. So if there's a list of scientists who would have been read in on stuff. There's no reason to think that John Trump wouldn't have been. So again, I, I think it's, Trump is an enigma. Is he stupid, is he clever, is he connected? Is he just, you know, it's, sometimes it's hard to, you swing back and forth. But yes, I do think there might be more of a story with Trump and especially with the, the Deep State, because his mentor was Roy Cohn. Roy Cohn was connected to everyone and everything in the Deep state. So. Yeah. Interesting. Very interesting.
- [63:00]
B
On you go. What are you going to say?
- [63:01]
C
I was going to say that the, the guy who beats out the effort for UFO disclosure in the Clinton election. I don't like Hillary Clinton, by the way, just, just FYI, but the guy who beats them out is deeply connected to the deep states in the biggest upsets in political history right at the moment that we were going to get some UFO information. And I, I'm just not sure that all of that is a coincidence.
- [63:24]
B
No, that, that, that's a fair way to think, like you say. I would be interested to see what you could pull together on that in terms of research.
- [63:31]
C
Yeah.
- [63:31]
B
Regarding to the Stars Academy, as there, Is there some parallels to Sky Watcher in terms of it being an organization that comes forward with former military folks who make some big claims, who go in what seems a lot of ways very public. They don't ask to raise money, but they're privately funded. They released some documentary episodes because Sky Watcher did do that, that seemed it was going to be educational, informative, they had a plan. And then after some work, there seems to be some folks leave. So we had Elizondo and Co with two of the stars. You have James Fowler with Sky Watcher. Things change and it goes relatively quiet. There seems to be some parallels there for me. And is that perhaps getting it like usa, they, they try to do something, they try to do it in a public way. So forces within the government, whether it's Collins elite folks, whether it's just the military industrial complex, private contractors, or indeed just the US Government itself going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, not, not publicly, that these things eventually get pulled back in.
- [64:43]
C
Yeah, I, I, so I really don't know much about Sky Watcher. I've not been involved in the drama. I never watched any of it, so I don't know. But yeah, I, I think there was clearly some kind of effort there. And everyone's annoyed, right? Everyone's like, what happened to Sky Watcher? And again, it's one of these things where it's very easy to be like, oh, well, you said you were going to do it, so you didn't do it. So what? And it's like, no, I like the way you're positioning it, Andy. It's like the, the odds are that something has stopped that and the, the intentions. Like, why would you go out and say that stuff if you didn't have some kind of plan to try and follow through on it? And I, especially when there's so many other people involved. So, yeah, you know, I, I think these kinds of things do face resistance and to the Stars certainly, certainly did. You know, I think they, they were facing all sorts of people trying to, trying to maybe muddy the waters and mess with them. So I think it's just part of
- [65:36]
B
the game in regard. What we'll do is we'll finish up Onto the Stars. Because I am only halfway through the notes, I've got Jason and I said that to you that beforehand. And I mean that, folks. I've. I've broken this up into something like 18 parts, and I'm about to enter part nine, which is Tom Delong, Mantis, Nazis, Greek Gods and Myths.
- [65:56]
C
So I've got about 15 minutes now before I'd have to wrap up. So are we okay to wrap then, 100?
- [66:02]
B
Yeah, because I've got some stuff on and it's going to get hot for both of us, folks. Yeah, so what we'll do is give us a final word there, Jason, because we'll get you back on what next week, if we can do an early recording and we'll do this again and go into that kind of stuff. Because I'll give folks a tease here. I want to get into, you know, the kind of talking about Atlantis, Nazis, Greek gods, what's happened from 2017 onwards, New York Times, the Congress, the whistleblower era that we're currently in Agendas, Information Control, Collins Elite in the Modern Era. And then I've got listener questions on top of that, too. So loads still to get to, Jason. But give us a final word then on. Can I summarize right now where everything is for you? We've discussed the relevancy of it, why it's so important, and what's kind of driving you to keep covering this.
- [66:48]
C
Yeah, right now, what seems really important to me is that the religious thing has been a big concern for me, obviously because of my religious background, but also because I think we have to be so cautious about in, you know, as we do have to integrate religion into this conversation, but how we do it completely changes things. So do you just go in and say, okay, well, the Bible is some sort of authority here because then we have to fit everything around the Bible, or do we say the date is the authority and we fit not just the Bible, but any mythological traditions around the data? And I think that second approach is so, so important. I don't have to tell you about the weird eschatological stuff happening in the world, conflicts in the Middle east, the way they're sometimes framed as holy wars. You've got Peter Thiel warning about the Antichrist. There's a lot of like, heightened emotion which is using religious terminology. The last thing we want to do as a community is to play into that. I'm, I'm encouraged. Like I said earlier, I'm less worried than I was. Not like it's me having to solve this, but, you know, my own personal thoughts. But that's, that's something that I'm, you know, aware of. And really beyond that, I'm also very aware now that things do seem to be moving forwards. And it's been a decade or so of this push. By the time we get to another two or three years, I would not be surprised if, if there is more conversation in public and if certain things, I don't know whether the government's ever going to confirm anything but the, the, the conversation is going to change. And so for me now, a big interest of mine is not, I, you know, I don't want to spend my time trying to argue for non human intelligence. I'm more concerned with how we're going to frame it, like whether it's the, the risks of the hybrid thing or the religious thing or whatever. And then also how do we make sure that whilst this public confirmation level conversation is going on, we're also having the deeper conversation where we are looking at the past, we are looking at all the wild stuff that happened after the war and we're not forgetting it because I think making sure that's happening in tandem with the adjustment that the public's going through is going to be very important.
- [69:04]
B
Awesome. Jason, you're going to come back on next week. How can people find you your content, your channel to look into? A lot of the stuff we've talked about, you've done huge summaries and deep dives on. So we have kind of like you say we have been the, you used the seven course analogy earlier. We've been the buffet for your channel where we've literally taken little samples of each of the meals to try.
- [69:27]
C
Yeah. If you want to go deeper, then go to the YouTube channel. It's just Jason Samosa, where I like to say that we're now at a point where if you type that in, you won't just see images of Jason Momoa as a samosa. We'll be. Although if you Google that, you will scroll down far enough, you will find that image and it haunts me every day. But on YouTube it's you should find it or just type Jason Sosa ufo. And I'm on X as well as Jason Somosa and I post on there, you know, here and there. And that's I'm on, you know, I'm on all socials. So yeah.
- [69:57]
B
Awesome. Jason, great conversation. I've loved hearing a lot of your thoughts on this. Gave me a lot of food for thought and I hope it's done for folks out there too. And remember, if you're on any platform or of mines or Jason's a like a comment, a subscribe, anything like that, leaving a question means a lot and helps people like us grow our content. And great to hear, Jason, you're able to do this now full time, which is wonderful given the effort you've been. You've been putting in.
- [70:19]
C
Thanks, Andy. I appreciate it. And let me just say it's really cool to be on that UFO podcast. Like I said, used to listen to this all the time back in the day, so it's super cool. Appreciate you having me on and I
- [70:30]
B
can appreciate anyone listening to this and deciding I can do that better so starting their own channel, Jason, so well done. I've been the inspiration for many folks in that respect. So look forward to speaking to you again very soon, mate.
- [70:41]
C
Thanks. Appreciate it.