← That UFO Podcast
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- [02:14]
A
Hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO podcast. As always, my name is Andy and joining me for what's becoming a regular feature looking ahead in the week, it's Monday, it's maybe Tuesday, depending on where you are in the world of when, when you're watching or listening. But I've got the wonderful Pavel from Secoactivo podcast joining me once again. Pavel, how are you mate?
- [02:35]
D
Hello, Andy. How you doing today? How was your weekend?
- [02:39]
A
I'm good. It was busy. It's my. It's my turn for hosting duties. People may have noticed it. We take turns. I think things are far more organized when you host Pavel. But yeah, I'm, I'm good. It was, it was a disappointing weekend. Not to go into it too much but with the football results again. But here we are. There's been a quite a bit of UFO news over the last couple of days to talk about. I mean I've got comments from Jordan Flowers about UFO baiting which I'm a little wary of how strong really that that language should have been used in the article from Chris Sharp. Matt Brown I think is a huge talking point we'll probably kick off with. With his recent substack on Amnesty. Ross Coultart's making some big comments as he normally does on News Nation about moon monoliths. He touches on Mars monoliths, objects on the surface, Antarctica coming into the conversation which is relevant for me. I've got a big interview coming up in a few weeks on that and Dr. Phil, I don't know how big a fan of Dr. Phil you are or where over the years but he's even getting in on the whole UFO thing so and then we've got lots of folks in the live chat so on both channels. So if anyone is watching this live, leave a like, leave a comment. It makes a massive, massive difference to chumps like us who are still waiting on getting those huge toy deals from Mattel and all the free stuff sent to us that we can open, I don't know, boxes of toys, Power Ranger stuff would be great, you know, but yeah, all that kind of stuff that makes these young children millionaires these days. But yeah, here we are talking about UFOs mate. Well, how was your weekend?
- [04:18]
D
I enjoyed the World cup games and with Jordan Flowers news it was it sort of closed or gave me a better indication of a case that I was following from February 11th when the El Paso Texas airspace closed. So apparently what came out in the files that Jordan Flowers pointed to is from a different event to the one that I have information on and that I've been tracking for a little bit. So that gives me an indication that it's more than one event of these types of luring or whatever you want to call these things from the government, from people at the government. So that, that was an interesting data point that is new to me and yeah it's not just one operation. I kind of like how they're doing it though. Even though it feels like a control sort of disclosure, you know, I like the, the plan to drop multi evidence sort of cases with first hand accounts with pictures all together of events that just happened recently. That's I think that's a positive. I don't know what you think about that.
- [05:41]
A
If we're going to talk, talk high level disclosure, chat first. And I'm good for that. So the. You're talking about the cases that Burleson, I watched your, your roundup on it yesterday. I think it was. You posted it. Orbs Galore, I think was the thumbnail for it. And we're hearing from Burleson. You know, we're hearing from Jordan Flowers. You're going back to some of the cases where airports are being closed in El Paso, is that right?
- [06:07]
D
Yep.
- [06:07]
A
Yeah. Yep. And again, so we're, we're assuming you're on the side of these weren't drones or conventional drones and that something was happening that caused these airspaces to be closed.
- [06:19]
D
Yeah. Some of the people that I talked to are aware of activity that went on near the El Paso airspace on that area. And they're trying to not really mention it because they don't want. And this is true, they don't want for too much attention drawn into it because I think, and this is just my opinion here, educated opinion, I think that it, it's ongoing. They still have that area there, that that airspace is actually still closed today, but they're still running those types of operations. And they just sneak that in. You know what happened in December 2025, they just sneaked it in and see what the reaction was. And a lot of people missed it. I missed it when it first came out. I should have paid more attention when Burleson was like trying to point people towards her little by little. Right. But for me, it's. It's a separate event from the one that I was following. And, and that in El Paso it was really weird. I don't know if you recall, but they closed the airspace or announced that they were going to close it for 10 days, which is unheard of.
- [07:32]
A
Yeah.
- [07:32]
D
And then just like a couple hours later, they opened it back up, which was very strange from the beginning. And this idea of the cartel, cartel drones and all that stuff that, I mean, honestly, I don't think that the cartels have the capability to cross into US Airspace without, you know, noticing. Without anybody noticing.
- [07:57]
A
So what I don't quite understand, if we look at what is coming out in these files, we've had four drops now. Very quickly, Pavel, out of 10, what are you rating the drops in general in terms of quality of content?
- [08:11]
D
I would guess that this is probably the only one of the few cases that I find interesting. The rest is like Especially the imagery. There's just like a couple of things that are just interesting. There's one where there's a lot of aeolic sort of fans on the floor and there's this object moving between them. That was an interesting video for me, and it could have been a balloon, but it seemed it moved very specifically. Yeah.
- [08:43]
A
Another one.
- [08:44]
D
Yeah. In terms of a rating, I would. I would go just a six or seven or something like that. Not like out of ten. It's. It's not really that good. But, you know, my hope is that they can. They drop what's not that meaningful and then slip in a couple of things like they did with this one. And then hopefully they can upscale the quality of the stuff and the smoking gun type of evidence can release in the fifth and sixth. If there's a sixth one, because the fifth was announced already there. They said that they were gonna drop a fifth one, right?
- [09:23]
A
Yeah, I did see that. Yeah. For me, like, I'm. I'm being generous when I say 5 out of 10. Yeah. I think I'm voting for volume over quality quality there. To be honest, the videos have largely been poor. I think some of the stuff people are jumping on really quickly is probably prosaic. And I can see how it could go. Even the good stuff, I could see how it could go either way. Honestly. There's been a couple of interesting videos, but we kept hearing in the build up to this from Budget, from Burleson, from. From Luna, that we. They were seeing really interesting videos. They were getting really interesting briefings. They had all this explosive stuff that they were pushing to get out. And then what we've got isn't that which they themselves, to be fair, especially Burleson and Burchett, they themselves have said, we're frustrated. This isn't the stuff that we're trying to get out. They're lowballing us. And I think that's been very fair. Luna, I've said so many times. I'm still unsure where Luna stands on this, because one minute she's saying there's lots of great stuff she's seen, the next minute she's telling us this is the best of the stuff, don't expect too much more. So I'm a little bit wary on that one. And then she mentioned just last week we spoke about it in last week's show on Glenn Beck. She mentioned, you know, something's going to come down the line that's going to
- [10:51]
D
give us not going to prove the phenomenon is real.
- [10:55]
A
She said, it's going to prove it's real or an aspect of it's real. There was specific wording around it. It wasn't like it's going to tell us aliens are real, but it's going to say that this is genuine. But we know that the four drops we've had confirm it's being investigated for 80 years, at least. That's. That's the main thing. I was on a. I was on a UK news station on Saturday night. So, yeah, about 9 o' clock on Saturday night, I don't, like five minutes. And they had me on with a guest and they were. It was actually a comedian they had me on with who has a background in science and they wanted me to go on and argue aliens were real. I had a little bit of a exchange with the producer beforehand to say, look, I'm not just going to sit there and say aliens are real. And that's my argument, because that's nonsense. I'd rather have the argument that there's a genuine phenomenon. Look at the weight of evidence, look at the volume of evidence, look at the testimony, look at what's happening and go from there. And they were like, yeah, yeah, but.
- [11:54]
B
But you'll.
- [11:55]
A
But you'll say, aliens are real, won't you? And I went, well, in a way, yeah. They just wanted me to confirm that. And I was like, right, that's fine. But then the comedian guy basically argued that, yeah, there's no. Like, there's no evidence, there's no testimony. And I said to him, evidence is subjective. And he screwed his face up and I said to him, I suppose, much like your comedy, some people will find you funny and some people won't. And I was like, as. Does that make.
- [12:23]
D
I was very Scottish of you.
- [12:26]
A
Yeah, he was very. And I made the point that, you know, just because someone doesn't find you funny doesn't make them wrong. And he said, well, no, you can't say the evidence is subjective. I wanted to come back and make the point that evidence in a courtroom, the testimony of someone, can put a man or woman to death. So testimony is evidence and there's really strong testimony on this topic. So you can't outright say that there's no good evidence or no good testimony. What I said to him was, and I tried to be polite about it, but I said his views were very lazy. I went. And he's come in with this really strong view of there's no evidence, there's no such thing as aliens. Why would they be coming from so far away? And I Just said to him, they're all very old and boring arguments. I went, what it sounds like to me is you've not really looked at this. You don't want to look at it. So there's no convincing you any way, shape or form right now. But if you care to take a little look into any number of kind of different avenues, maybe you'll see a different side of the conversation. But, yeah, he was. He was not massively impressed with that.
- [13:30]
D
Yeah.
- [13:31]
A
So, yeah, like, in terms of the drops, I think we've had diminishing returns. And to the point I'm trying to make here, really poorly, you've brought up that there's this kind of little bit of a gem that's been hidden away in this fourth drop for me. Why are they hiding this stuff away at all? It doesn't seem like it's particularly well planned, what's coming out. I still don't really.
- [13:55]
D
Because I think that there. There are scattered efforts to. To get information out because not all information is good for one side and bad for the. It's like that, right? It's not. Everybody has their own interest in what they want to release. And this actually ties in pretty well with what Matthew spoke about today, that we'll talk a little bit later. But for me, it's that it's. What's the level of interest and intention of the people involved in this? Where did they come from? Who do they seem to respond to or have allegiance to? And if you start looking into those specific aspects, you can understand a little better what. Why it's so scattered and why it's. So these are these organ de. Organized, you know.
- [14:52]
A
Yeah. I think you're still seeing a fight publicly and definitely privately with some, not only individuals, but organizations who are now coming to the fore with this topic. You know, perhaps the FBI are being a lot more cooperative than they were previously. And it seems the CIA are not. Yeah.
- [15:15]
D
Or the Air Force.
- [15:17]
A
Or the Air Force. Yep. So you've got these huge buttings of heads where it's not just a few individuals anymore trying to fight for disclosure and fight for the release of documents and videos. You now have these huge organizations with the deep, deep, deep embedded in the government and the military industrial complex and private contractors. You know, they're everywhere and they are now, it seems, at odds of what can come out, what can't come out. You've got one squeezing the toothpaste from one end, the other one's trying to put it back in on the other. It's a really weird place we're in. And I think a lot of that infighting, a lot of it happening behind closed doors is causing the kind of mess we've got now where there's so much out there, everyone's calling disinformation psyops, you know, BS Here you've got on various levels. You've even got like the cool Tartan Elizondo situation where Ross is suddenly calling out Lou for being part of the legacy program. Lou's not necessarily denying it. You've got the, the drops happening. You've got the, the UAP caucus. We've got potentially more hearings coming. We're going to talk about whistleblowers tonight. I just want to address this one while we're here. You know, Scooby saying that I heard Trump's addressing the nation. Donald Trump does have an address for Thursday. It is almost definitely about Iran. So anyone hoping or expecting for any UFO type comments from Donald Trump, I, that's not, not what's happening on that address. I'm not in Trump's room. But it is almost definitely about Iran and the, I agree. The war is still going on even though it's been won 38 times now.
- [16:57]
D
There was a lot of activity in, in, in the Middle east during the weekend and they got into it again and other countries were involved as well. The Basin, I think it was Saudi Arabia from the US that was bombed. It was, it's bad. So I think that, that that's where this speech is going. I think he's gonna make some kind of an announcement.
- [17:23]
A
Yeah, it's going to be on that. And again, does that, what does that mean for you then when it comes to this UFO disclosure push from a White House perspective, surely if you've got
- [17:36]
C
any,
- [17:40]
A
any hope of a Trump administration or any administration pushing this forward, if you've got a war that just doesn't seem to want to end and it's not just you're fighting another country, it's literally to do with the world's 80% of the world's oil supply. It's constantly being bombarded. Other countries are involved. You're fighting proxy wars across the borders as well. Does this UFO thing where you've got this little piece of paper here, you know, does that just keep getting shoved away? Because if I was a president and Trump famously doesn't seem to have, certainly seems like he's been briefed, but doesn't have the biggest interest in the topic personally, for me, it seems he will just keep sliding that away going not Just now? Not just now. And I don't see where else in that administration, even with Vance and others, Rubio, who have interest in the topic, are they really running up and picking that ball and running with it while you've got this situation in Iran? I don't see.
- [18:39]
D
I don't know how many times I've done thumbnails saying that this is all kayfabe, man, and this is something that I will stand behind until they show me something different. You speak about Luna, and I'm gonna be completely blunt here. I've seen Luna all over the place, right? And when she's, she's. She grandstands quite a bit when stuff is going on in the Middle east, she seems way more interested in what's going on there than all the stuff that she's supposed. She's supposed to be taking care of. So to me, she's a good indicator of how serious this topic is being taken by the administration in certain aspects. Because if you, if you prioritize war over telling people the truth, that already says a lot about you, I think. And there's a lot of people that, yeah, they, they Kayfave, they pretend for a while, they, they put up a show, but in the background we see everything that's going on in the world. And that's the same people that are making the decisions of the UFO topic, supposedly. So it does makes make it seem like we are definitely being played, especially with the level of quality of the four installments of the files. As I said, there's the hidden, like, sort of interesting case like this one, the Jordan flowers pointing to, but it's like a needle in a haystack, man.
- [20:20]
A
What's the most interesting chess piece on the board and play right now for
- [20:25]
D
you when it comes to me, Dave David Grush. Why still is. Because there's still stuff that I think he has already sort of mentioned in private settings that were eventually leaked where he alluded to have firsthand information and then the capital thing happened and he also alluded to haven't seen photographic evidence. So to me, whatever he's doing in the background, whatever requests he's making, some aided by Burleson, some by others, to me, that's the real interesting part of it. And if this is true, the, the, the case that Jordan pointed to from December 2025, if this is happening, that means that there are people within the government currently trying to either make contact or, you know, lure one of these things in a more sort of official capacity. So for me, those two are currently the important ones. I think that the scientific council, it doesn't convince me really because of many different aspects that, that we've discussed in the past. But to me that's, that's it. Yeah. And it's, I don't know, it seems like on one side there's people that want for the whole truth to come out, but a lot of those people are being treated like by sociopaths, by the way, like snitches. That's essentially what's happening right now. And the other side doesn't want to give away everything. They don't think about morality as much as probably they should. For me, that's, that's part of the situation and you know where the tug of war is currently going on.
- [22:21]
C
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- [22:53]
A
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- [23:21]
A
Bent spoon. Just saying. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the President's children is trying to monetize disclosure in some fashion in the background. And to be fair to Trump, he did just basically come out and admit the other day that, you know, yeah, insider trading is happening and why wouldn't it? So, you know, call a spade a spade if you're going to do that. And yeah, David, appreciating the, the regular Mondays here, as I am too, it helps me kind of talk through a lot of this stuff. What, what's your take on Stephen Miller? So from what I'm hearing, and I hate doing, I hate sounding like a journalist here, Pavel. Right. But apparently I have to stop saying that I'm not. From what I am hearing from folks, Stephen Miller is very Very, very interested in this. And I know the comment was made before that it's been passed on to him. I'm hearing that he does have the bit between his teeth and wants to go with this, the whole UAP thing. What's your take on that?
- [24:27]
D
Well, I would be lying to myself if I said that I like that guy. I really, really don't. A lot of folks don't. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure what to think. I don't trust anything that comes out of that guy. Hopefully it's true. You know, I have this sort of. I know and I can, I can see that we're probably being played right. But I keep trying to cover this in the hopes that they it up and they do release something, but because of a up, not because they want to release something. Because if something has characterized this administration in the past, especially for example, when the Epstein files dropped, there was a lot of dumb stuff that they did during that drop. They didn't get to redact properly. A lot of things from, from many documents. They were caught trying to block some of that. And there were some things that were released there that were pretty eye opening and terrifying in many respects. And I think that if this keeps going on, these UFO files keep dropping, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody took it upon themselves to release something that probably the government doesn't want to release. But it's just so much. And they're so poor at their job in terms of administrating everything and trying to release stuff properly that I, I wouldn't be surprised if they drop something really, really important by accident or by
- [26:13]
A
design or someone gets something in there and makes it look like an accident. For me, yeah, I've said quite a few times now and apologies if anyone gets bored with this analogy, but I see these drops in terms of content. I believe in the US it's TJ Max. In the UK it's TK Maxx, where you've got this clothing store where they put out just loads of crap on Iraq and it's just all the T shirts that are for large males and you have to sift through them and it's largely a jumbled mess of stuff and it's all pretty cheap. But now and again you get a random Hugo Boss T shirt that should have been £95 and it's down to like 30 and you're like, oh wow. You might get the odd gem in there, but you really, really have to look. And I wonder, that's the way this, this stuff still Strikes me in terms of. And I'll ask you this, Pavel, because you've got some quite strong views on some of these folks as well. Okay?
- [27:09]
D
Yeah.
- [27:10]
A
Like Stephen Miller is a guy that a lot of folks are throwing a lot of different labels at. Okay. And this is something that we'll touch on within the, the amnesty discussion through Matthew Brown's article as well. Can. Can bad people still ultimately do some good things through their actions? Have you ever seen the movie Crash?
- [27:34]
D
Yeah, a long time ago, but yeah, really good movie.
- [27:37]
A
It's like love, actually, but not a comedy where you've got all these different stories. Do you know what I mean? All these different stories converging. Right. And. And not to spoil too much if people haven't seen Crash, but one of the. Oh, God, is it. Ethan Hawke plays a police who's really corrupt and he basically. And this is. Sounds really bad. He. He assaults. Thank you, Newton. Where he basically takes liberties when he's searching her, put it that way. Okay. And it's about the whole racist cop thing and everything. Later in the movie, her car crashes and there's a fuel leak and there's a fire and the only person to save her is him. And there's a moment where they connect and he sees her, she sees him and she says, don't touch me. But he's like, you're gonna die, you're gonna die. And he cuts her loose and saves her. And it's this whole moral thing of this was a really awful, corrupt guy who'd been abusing his power, taking advantage of his situation, but ultimately he saved her. So he's done a good thing. Yeah, she was even. She was, she was fighting with, I, I don't want you to touch me. And she's just going to let herself be killed. So you've got a guy like Stephen Miller, I'm not saying, you know, can win himself round, but again, can you accept that there may be good people doing bad things and bad people may do some good things when it comes to this topic?
- [29:02]
D
I think that this boils down to two options for me when it comes to this topic. There's the people who have been involved in this and in some form or another, they believe they're serving their country. They believe themselves to be patriots, but they've done questionable things because of their country and they, if they are good people, they probably don't like some of the things that they've been. They've done or many. And then there's sociopaths who are part of this, you know, program or programs. And this again comes to the question of morality. I don't think that somebody who is a sociopath would do something good just because of. To benefit somebody else. If they do something good and they're bad people, clearly that means that they're doing it because it benefits them in some way if they are truly a sociopath, because that's how these people operate. But if. But also there have been people who have been doing many bad things that do regret those bad things, and they've already got themselves way too polluted by the system. And this comes from a guy who lives in Mexico. I've seen corruption on a daily basis in my life, inside my country, everywhere. And I know that we are capable of, like, doing the most heinous, especially in my country. And we can still go home and spend time with our children and have a good time after doing something awful, because that. That's, for example, a trait of sociopathy.
- [30:58]
C
They.
- [30:58]
D
They don't. They don't give a really. But I think we're capable of both things at the same time. So I don't know. That's a difficult question to answer. I. I don't think I did a very good job at it, but that's the view that I have.
- [31:14]
A
No, I also got the actor wrong. It was Matt Dillon, not Ethan Hawke.
- [31:17]
D
You know Matt Dillon.
- [31:18]
A
That's right, it was Matt Dillon. Yeah, but great movie. People should check out Crash. Very, very Good film from 2004. Highly recommend it. Should we get into the Matthew Brown article? Because we're skirting around it in these conversations. So, Matthew Brown, folks, if you're not familiar or the name sounds familiar, Matthew Brown is the whistleblower who came forward through Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp on Weaponized. He was the author of the Immaculate Constellation document. He alleged he came across multiple different files on servers, alluding to all sorts of UAP activity. And he has a really good substack where he releases quite regular. I'm a. I'm subscribed to it. And again, because I'm supported on this podcast, I like to support those whose source material I regularly use. So Matthew's got that if you want to support him on there. And he's put this article out today largely around the topic of Amnesty and the debate on there. I'm just getting it through his invisible frontier. So it's on Amnesty, Disclosure, Truth and Justice. Really, really good article. And he goes into some major talking points if you want the. Too long didn't read. He's supporting the possibility of conditional UAP amnesty, but only after whistleblowers are protected, witnesses are free to speak, evidence is surrendered, and serious offenders are excluded from blanket forgiveness. And that last part is one I think I'll probably debate most with you here. But Pav, do you want to take away some of your thoughts on this?
- [32:51]
D
Yeah. Well, to me, this, this boils down to this attitude from people who are still in the program but don't want this to go get out. And there's this sense of justice from people like Matt or Dylan or Dave Grush or you just had Michael Herrera here with you. So in my opinion, this is a deal where sociopaths are demonizing people who come forward because it's the right thing to do. And this is the problem that we have. And unfortunately most there's a lot of people within positions of power who have this mentality and they. Their initial reaction to this, to a piece like the one Matthew wrote, I would think that it's like you are naive. You know, they think that way. They think that we are naive for trying to do the right thing. And unfortunately, this is a situation that is completely global and every level, on every level. And if you try and do the right thing, usually because this is not a perfect world by any means, you do get ostracized and demonized for it. And this is like at the center of the debate. Some people are willing to look the other way, others are not. I, I don't think I'm able to if I, even if I want it. And I think that's, that's the unfortunate situation for people like Matt, Dylan, David, that this, this is going to continue, this retaliation and all that, unless something is announced in terms of like, protections for people. But I think that we should go on a case by case basis. And I think that Matthew also exposes this and in his piece that it should be like, what did you exactly do? What do you exactly know? Only in specific cases, you would have to like go to the extreme and forgive somebody even if they did a specific crime. But it would have to be like very specific cases like getting blanket amnesty for everybody and especially the ones who did commit the worst crimes. Yeah, it's, it's, at the end of the day, just a question of morality. What do you think about that? And where do you stand on the matter? Where do you stand?
- [35:31]
A
I think the people who have done the worst things will get away with it because of the programs they are a part of. I don't, I don't know we're talking the worst of. The worst of stuff has, has a range, doesn't it? Because I think a lot of folks might think, and I hate having to do this for the old YouTube algorithm folks, but the whole unaliving situation as we call it. Right, yeah. If folks have been unalived adults, that's probably not the worst of the stuff. And there is, and I don't even know if it's a conversation for now, Pavel, but there is this other side of it where you do get into children being taken away from families. Who was I speaking? Was it Michael Herrera recently I was speaking to. I love how you see surname, by the way. Michael Herrera, who was talking about disaster zones and people being taken away from disaster zones and taken into programs. So you may be in Indonesia, you may be in an impoverished area, you'll be taken advantage of because people go missing during earthquakes, mudslides, you know, volcanic eruptions. And if they don't find you, they just don't find you because it's a disaster, you know. However, he says that people are taken away, they're taking to special programs, I'm guessing within the U.S. for example, you're, you're potentially given a much more comfortable lifestyle, but I don't know, are you kept in some kind of huge imprisonment camp? Are you allowed to go out? But you or your children are perhaps then used for psionic programs as one of the things. And I know that's something you go back and forward on. Listening to your recent shows around how far psionics actually go. I know you're very doubtful about flying craft with your mind, but, you know, perhaps there are aspects to it, we'll get into that. But I think if you start to go down the route of potential human trafficking for this and then our children bred for this purpose. I've had private conversations with people on that side of things and our children that go missing, taken away and used for experimentation around psi phenomena, around contacting other species. That gets really dark and really sinister. And I think it then goes from, you know, there's the unaliving to that side of it which is really, really, really dark. And I could understand why that sort of stuff would probably never go public anyway. I don't think you would allow the public would be allowed to hear that end of it.
- [38:19]
D
Me, probably the worst crime of them all is hiding history from people if you're control or a government. And that because that gets into social engineering and, and with that comes a lot of decisions that can be considered in Many cases genocidal or, you know, because if any of this is true or it's all true, that means that control systems have been. Have been lying to humanity for at least a couple thousand years. And with that comes along a lot of different things that I think this is tied to as well. Because if it is true, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a lot from our ancient history that hasn't been told to us or has been rearranged to tell us a specific narrative and make us believe were something that we're not. That's the worst crime to me,
- [39:24]
A
I would say. And that is, that is a really poor. I think as a parent and a father, which are the same thing, I think as a parent that anything involving children always hits me a lot harder. So there's more difficult conversations to be had there. And I think that hits a lot of folks in different ways. But history gets hidden from us anyway in a lot of different ways. I've always subscribed to the whole theory around like World War II, that the Allies will have done some awful, awful things, some of which we have heard about, other things we haven't because we won the war. Had the Nazis won the war and the Japanese, then perhaps you hear about what we done that was so bad and you don't hear about the stuff that they did. And I think that's probably just quite natural. And there's levels to that, of course, but I think a lot of our history gets hidden from is. I just don't see that personally as being the worst of them.
- [40:19]
D
Let me, let me give you an example though, that ties to what you think is the worst crime in mine, hiding history of what the GATE program was really about, or hiding history about the MK Ultra program or you know, stuff that has been happening during this 80 year period that is also part of it. And this involves obviously the whole child abuse and all that stuff that is involved with that. And you know, I'm pretty confident that there is something from also the Epstein files that we're not being told that could be tied to some of this. Right. And that can also, I think, get pretty dark. And also that is hiding history as well.
- [41:06]
A
Yes. So it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, all of that. I just think there's. I think there's also the element of given what we're talking about and if we really boil it down to the simplest terms, we are not alone, there's a non human species interacting with us, etc. Etc. Okay. The classic tropes I don't think most of the public and I said this to I interviewed Peter Scafish last night. That'll be on the channel in the next day or so. Peter's the co founder of Saul. He's also on the scientific advisory council. So we were talking a lot more about that and I can't remember if it was with him or a previous interview. And I mentioned again in my opinion and I'll just frame it that way, the majority of the people, 99.9% of the public will not care about the past, the COVID up, the secrecy when it comes to this topic. I don't think they'll care that your history has been hidden from you. They will focus on aliens are real. We're not alone. We have to live with us now. That's what will happen.
- [42:14]
D
What if just the. What if the ones responsible for children being taken. What if we are really being used as some kind of land stock for somebody else? What if that is the hidden history that we aren't being told? And can you imagine what would happen? Do you think that people would also not care if they found out that there was. We're some kind of a farm and we're being used as produce.
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A
I don't think people will find that out. If that is the case, that's one thing. But I don't think when we get disclosure, it's going to be here's the disclosure file and here's all the truth. If you want to read it across eight volumes of books, you can. We're not going to get that. It's going to be a confirmation. I think the most likely thing right now we're going to get and I do think we get this in the next couple of years, maybe sooner as an admission that there is potentially, and it will be potentially something non human interacting with us. But you'll get, you'll get like a governmental denial of what we don't quite know and we're trying to figure it out along with you. I think that's how it will play out and that will, that will pass on to the next U.S. administration. What will be interesting is how other, other countries then play with that information. Because if the US Come out, and this is something myself and Peter Scafish talked about last night, like I say, it's not out yet, folks, if indeed the US Come out and make an admission, say Trump does it in the coming months and goes, you know, I think the way Peter Scafish frames it was if Trump loses the midterms, for example, and comes out and goes, do you know what, here's an information dump on this whole NHI thing or even when leaving this, this presidency, going on to the next one, it's a hell of a thing to leave another administration and another presidency. They are then going to have to run with it how they choose to. And again, it would be a lot easier than opening up the can of worms as to, you know, when you turn your tap on too quick and the water hits everywhere and sometimes you've got a spoon sitting in a really awkward place and the water hits a spoon and splashes up and soaks you. The other administration or the next folks dealing with us, I'm sure are going to want to move the spoon and just put the tap on slowly and be like, we think there's something. We're looking at it, We've got science on it. And look at it right now. Look at it maybe positively. We've got a scientific council set up, we've got these religious faith councils set up, we've got these task forces set up, we've got the caucus, we've got the secrets task force. We're working on this in so many different ways. We've got arrow, which is now again, I'm still hearing more and more that arrow is turning itself round. Whether that's a good thing and a bad thing. You're hearing the same stuff that caused lots of core actually coming round a bit with us. So maybe that's going to be one of the great, you know, comebacks of all time. An Argentina esque Messi comeback with a arrow in the long run. But for me it just seems like maybe they're setting this up to go. We're not going to get told aliens are real, here's the truth. But we're going to get something coming out to see and maybe does it tie in with Annapolina Luna statement about something confirming it's real, where they're not going to go too far, but they give us, they give us a little bit just to keep people intrigued.
- [47:55]
D
Maybe a video of a NORD up close. I think that would do it. If it's really convincing and really up close.
- [48:01]
A
What does that look like for you though?
- [48:03]
D
I mean, for us it won't be anything really, but I think that if somebody who's not into UFOs sees that, they would definitely go, whoa, what is that right?
- [48:17]
A
Yeah, but I see a lot of people share out of focus stars with me.
- [48:21]
D
I'm not saying out of focus. I'm saying like up close.
- [48:27]
A
It would need depth and context and it would have to be next to a car in broad daylight and. Yeah, or at night.
- [48:34]
D
But it illuminates everything. Like, you know, it's. That's not what they are described as. That's what they're described as. From that report though, that was included there, that the ODNI and the FBI wrote a report that seems like they were like in 20 yard sort of proximity. I wonder if they recorded that specific event, but they haven't released that yet.
- [49:03]
A
Do you ever get the feeling that when we see something that's genuine and I mean, HD 4K, whether it's a craft, a being an orb, like, it's the. The last thing I would want on my list, but if it's all I can get, then I'll take it. That when we see something genuine, you'll. You'll get a gut feeling with it, that you'll. You'll feel a little bit different when you see it. That's what I would judge it by.
- [49:29]
D
Yeah, Yeah, I agree there. And it's weird, man, because we know that these reports of orbs have always taken place. We know that. But there's always been this division because when the extraterrestrial hypothesis started being pushed many decades ago, people were not talking about orbs yet. Orbs were being cited all over the place, and they have been for. For a long time. So I think that's interesting that
- [50:04]
A
I
- [50:04]
D
don't know if the government is finally acknowledging, because I don't know if you remember that report from Arrow when Shankarpatrick was still there, and you could see in the little design that there were orbs all over the place, because that's the acknowledgment that they were ready to make and willing to make, that these orbs are consistent, they're constant, and we don't know what they are. And to me, that's where the. The entire conversation is right now. Not. We're past the whole extraterrestrial thing for the most part, even though sometimes Arrow does use that excuse again, that talking point. Right.
- [50:46]
A
Yeah. On that, I wanted to mention, and I know you were keen on this. As part of this article, Matthew mentioned 13 crimes against humanity, he says that were committed under the authority of the Legacy Program. Now, let me read these out. Did you send me these Pavels and I can.
- [51:05]
D
Yeah, they're. You can put it there. Put them there.
- [51:07]
A
That's the one. There we go. So, number one, subversion of the constitutional rule of law and the implementation of secret laws, secret courts, secret orders, and secret police apologies. I can't say orders in a normal voice. So I've had this argument with folks in the past. You know, the whole idea of when someone says something under oath that that means anything. I've tried to make the point that when you have something this big, this secretive, this huge, this, you know, world changing, none of that matters anymore. People will lie. And it seems that you do have whole secret governments. And he. It says here, secret court, secret orders, people who feel because of what they are doing, because maybe as through a sense of. Of, you know, being patriotic. Or a sense of duty or serving a country still. But they're protecting something so much more than common law that they are above the law. And they have the right to do what they need to do to keep that secret. Because that perhaps has been their whole life. And that first one just says that to me, that yeah, you're whole. But they said under oath that they wouldn't lie under oath. Yes, they would. People have lied under oath, regardless whether it's on your bible or not.
- [52:29]
D
Yeah. And again, we go back to this. Two types of philosophies when you're doing that. One is, I'm doing this for my country. I cannot reveal anything, therefore I have to lie. Or you know, there's interest involved and they lie and they're just being sociopathic about how they approach the topic and, and telling the truth, which is not there. It boils down to that. I think
- [53:00]
A
number two was conspiracy to undermine the sovereignty of the United States government and its people. So again, working well above and beyond any government, not a surprise, the aiding and abetting of foreign powers. So again, what working with other governments, China, Russia, whatever that may be. Ratification and implementation of treaties and international agreements without congressional authorization. Again, focusing on the fact, I'm presuming here that this secret is above and beyond needing permission from Congress. Yeah. Is that right?
- [53:38]
D
Yep, yep.
- [53:41]
A
Violating the sovereignty of tribal lands and peoples. Would that be just going on and recovering or taking part in trials, perhaps testing ranges?
- [53:51]
D
I mean, if the Office of Global Access is a real thing, they've been violating international law for a while, bro.
- [53:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's very true. Creating state sponsored monopolies and other actions incompatible with a free market. I think we see that in a lot of different ways anyway, the, the suppression of free speech. Yeah, I've got to even look at YouTube. I've got to say unalived. The suppression of free scientific, historical and public inquiry. I think that gets to your point, Pavel, about before, you know, reality is classified. That they are keeping human history and maybe just not even just human history. They're keeping the full picture from us. And I suppose that's one thing. Like personally I tell my kids, not that allowed to be dickheads at school, but when they're being taught about religion, I always tell them to be respectful, but they don't have to believe it because their teacher tells them about pick your God, pick your disciple, pick whatever it is. And my kids quite often tell, especially my 10 year old, tell the teacher. Well, my dad thinks aliens created the world. And my dad. That's maybe not necessarily what I say, but the teachers, the teachers are kind of like, all right, okay. But I'm like, for me, that's just as fair and just as good.
- [55:09]
D
Oh, man, I want to see that so bad.
- [55:12]
A
And they do that. Yeah. Maybe one day my, My son will come on and chat about his thoughts about aliens and UFOs. He's really into it. The, the next one was number nine, the use of intelligence tradecraft to destroy marriages, families and businesses. So, again, is this the intimidation tactics that we hear about? You know, the. They're going into people's homes. Was it. Was it Matthew's home where they went and they, they moved stuff, they laid IDs out, they. They took ashes from his wife, from.
- [55:45]
D
Yeah, that was horrible. Yeah.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah. And it's really easy for folks to say, yeah, well, why don't they just come out and tell us everything? Because they come out and tell us something and look at the reaction. What. What would you do? And this is what it boils down to. Not just the intimidation of the individual, but then the, the knock on effect on people's families and whatnot. I've shared this a long time ago, but I know of a. An owner of a previous owner of my football club who, when he was met with some opposition, and bear in mind, this was football. When he was met with some opposition from a fan group and a particular supporter, he was like, I'll ban your seat. I won't let you go to the game. But then he started telling the guy, I know where your mom and dad work. I know they're a little bit behind on this payment. I know your partner's just got a new job at this law firm, haven't they? That'd be interesting. I know the director of that company. It's the intimidation that comes along with knowledge and fighting back and pushing back. And that's what people have to remember. It's not just whistleblower. X will go to jail. It's okay. What happens when they're in jail? What happens to the families, to the kids? The intimidation and that you can, you can totally appreciate, I think. Is that fair?
- [56:58]
D
Yeah. And if they're sociopaths, because if they're doing this, they have a level of sociopathy. I, I compare it very much to how cartel members treat their enemies, because they don't just go after their enemies, they go after their entire families. And if this is the case, it's definitely one of the worst crimes of the entire list.
- [57:22]
A
And probably, if Anything. The whistleblower themselves are the last person that has any direct effect on them. Any intimidation. It's probably focused around them. Home invasions intended to gaslight and terrify. We've touched on the use of intelligence or, sorry, the use of less than lethal weapons, including directed energy weapons against American citizens. Have you seen just in the last 24 hours, the first Havana Syndrome payout happened? Was it $3 million that's been paid out to a victim of Havana Syndrome?
- [57:54]
D
And I think more are coming. It's like this is gonna blow wide open after this. Yeah, I saw that and remember a
- [58:04]
A
lot of folks were telling us that Havana Syndrome at the time wasn't real. It was all made up. It was just nonsense.
- [58:09]
D
The Gaslighters. The gaslighters, yes.
- [58:14]
A
Number 12. Human experimentation, including behavioral and genetic experimentation. And we've touched on that. And what I was saying before Pavel and the last one, also similar kidnappings, forced disappearances and unalivings, I'm going to say. So, yeah. What's, what's your take on, on that list? And Matthew printing that on a substack?
- [58:36]
D
I think that this is a much more realistic take from somebody who is going through some of these crimes on what has been happening. And note how in that entire list he never said anything about aliens at all. It's the crimes that. And this is what pains me, man, because Matthew, you got Matthew screaming from the rooftop about this. You got Dylan Borland saying everything that he says. You got Jeremy Corbell talking about the crimes from odni, and then you have the other side that doesn't want to talk about it. It's almost a taboo subject for them, and they're not addressing that at all. And they're minimizing a lot of the stuff that these people go through. And that is what really confuses me on how this disclosure thing is, is being treated by different groups. It is very strange. And in that article there was a part where Matthew very clearly alluded to Age of Disclosure and how sanitized this whole thing is and how they want to convince you that that amnesty is the way, or blanket amnesty, essentially. And yeah, I mean, I think we agree there, Matt and I, that it shouldn't be that way. But I, I really thought that this, this call out to Age of Disclosure directly was very interesting.
- [59:59]
C
Yeah.
- [59:59]
A
What exactly did they say on that one? Did you send me that?
- [60:02]
D
Have I got the second. Is the, the, the most recent image that you had? There's a little paragraph there, that one. Why else spend years investing time Influence and political capital in making the case whiles produce a major Hollywood documentary designed at least in part to condition the public to accept amnesty before being told what exactly must be forgiven. That was directly at age of disclosure, right?
- [60:27]
A
Yeah. And perhaps some of the folks involved in the making of that who are seeing little bits and pieces and that's something that Matthew, in the article folks, I strongly recommend you go and check out. It's a small essay, it's not huge but it's, you know, it's worth reading and we've touched around this point Pavel. But the idea that amnesty potentially becomes a way of protecting the architects of this cover up rather than exposing any truth. So there's, there's a way that potentially folks end up getting away with whatever crimes that have been committed but we still don't get the goods at the end of it anyway. And I think that's something Matthew talks about here, that this could end up being used again.
- [61:11]
D
I think that we can meet in the middle, if I'm honest with you. I think that I would be willing to accept amnesty for these people who committed these crimes only if people know who they are and what they did. They can get away with it if they want. But they must be named and their crimes must be named. I know that would never happen, but that's where I would meet them in the middle.
- [61:40]
A
But how would you know, you know if someone. You would. Are you saying though you're going to rely on someone coming forward to say I was in charge of rounding up the kids during the Indonesian earthquake and over the US for.
- [61:54]
D
For most cases there is documentation, there is evidence, it's just classified. If they do declassify it, make it public, not in a skiff. That's how you do.
- [62:05]
A
Yeah. I just don't think this is the kind of document. Yeah. That they get access to to do that.
- [62:11]
D
It's not going to happen. But it's wishful thinking on my part. I, I agree but you know, that would be a way that I would give them amnesty. Just expose them like inglorious bastards, man. What they did on, on the Nazis foreheads for their entire lives. Something like that. Not as gory or bloody. I'm not violent at all. But something along those lines, you know,
- [62:36]
A
again, it depends what, what comes of the truth and disclosure and that's a whole other conversation for another day. But if we go down the route of, you know, the old Bryce, Abel and Richard Dolan ad after disclosure, if that triggers an event, if the actual coming out and giving the public, the truth brings on some form of event unveiling a being or a race of beings that are waiting up there go, okay, now they know, let's make a move. Not saying full on invasion, but that, that could force a change and such a huge change. I just don't see necessarily where there's going to be an appetite for, for these people to suffer consequences. I just don't see it. I think you get a lot of folks who like to, as virtue, signal the word online or the ones who are like, I would, I would demand, you know, years of cases similar to the South African, South African, you know, apartheid. What was the name of that again? That happened after apartheid. There was a name for the bringing
- [63:42]
D
all the people reconciliation. No.
- [63:44]
A
Yes. Yeah. You know what, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Are they expecting something like that where they pull folks out and go, okay, in 1975, you covered up this, you took over the, the materials from the Kingman Arizona crash and that's not going to happen. There's such a small percentage of people that would be so negligible that would actually want any kind of action. I just, I just don't see it. It might happen privately in the background, but I just think again, in a time where it's going to take probably generations of governments to adapt and allow the publics to adapt and people to adapt to, to a new paradigm, to a new truth, a new knowledge, new technology, potentially integration of beings, is there going to be like. It's Friday night. Fox News has got live updates from the Roswell historical, you know, truth and reconciliation case. No, that's, that's just, I just don't see how it happens. I just don't see that there's a call for it, at least publicly anyway. But for me, I'm very much on the side of if it gets the truth out or a chunk of the truth, then I suppose I can not forgive because that's not my place to do. I just don't think I'm going to know enough or we will know enough of the actual truth to even have to make a decision.
- [65:10]
D
Yeah. No.
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- [66:13]
D
I don't think that's going to happen either. Again, I expect a fuck up before they do something on purpose. They release something because out of the goodness of their heart, I expect them to. And this is why I do this because I, I, I'm confident that they, they're gonna it up multiple times. They have already. So that's what I'm hoping for. But I don't have any, any hope in them doing it just because it's the right thing to do. Even though I do applaud what Matt is doing here because this very clearly appealing to that sense of like justice, you know, and morality. But there's just a lot of people that don't give a shit. And, and they do consider people like Matt and Dylan because they're sociopaths. They do consider them like snitches because they decided to come forward. And, and that's, that's just a really dumb, stupid mentality to have, if I may say.
- [67:11]
A
So what I hope though, as if it is indeed the case that there are multiple organizations and branches and arms of government who are now more pro disclosure and maybe they're pissed off everything that's being kept from them for a long time now and they're just finding this out. Maybe Organization X is really pissed off that the CIA or the Air Force has kept a secret from them and they are. Maybe that now helps the whistleblowers to feel more protected and feel like they have a little bit more weight on their side. There's a line in the article, the American people have many warriors ready to speak truth if only the President and Congress would let them. Right now do you feel we need more whistleblowers? Do we need another army of Dylan Borlands, Matthew Brown's David Grush's coming forward? Does that actually move us forward or does that just, you know, the Seagulls and Finding Nemo? Mine, mine, mine, mine is it just.
- [68:13]
D
Yeah.
- [68:13]
A
Not to be disparaging and not that I would applaud these people for coming forward. People like us would cover it. Pavel. Right. But does it move us to the next, you know, check or checkered piece on the board?
- [68:27]
D
You know, the thing is, for me, it's. Can you repeat the question again, please? I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
- [68:37]
A
Yeah. So do we need more whistleblowers like that coming?
- [68:40]
D
No. Okay.
- [68:40]
A
Okay.
- [68:41]
D
Sorry.
- [68:41]
B
More.
- [68:41]
D
I. I lost my train of thought. I think Matthew exposes it very well in. In his article because he talks about the first, like, group of whistleblowers that are public. He mentions Nuccitelli, David Grush, Dylan Borland himself, and there's many. Sandra Wiggins and all those people. But if they don't get those that already came forward, if they don't get the evidence that they claim to have or have knowledge of that, I don't think there's any use for more to come forward until these are resolved. This is something that Matthew exposes very well. He's like, we've already tried to get this out, but they're just not letting us get everything we know out. And we need that before we continue with more hearings, more people coming forward with stories. There needs to be evidence supporting that.
- [69:41]
A
Yeah. Anything else on Matthew's article before we move on?
- [69:44]
D
Just this definition of the legacy program, because there's been a lot of debate over this definition. We know that the Age of Disclosure documentary framed it as a single program, that it involves the Department of Energy, the CIA, and the Air Force. But if you watch, for example, Gerb's material, you can tell that this is not the case. And I really like this definition of what the legacy program is.
- [70:18]
A
Yeah. So for those on audio, legacy program refers to the constellation of highly classified special access programs that manage the UAP issue on behalf of the United States government. The term legacy refers not only to the age of these programs, but more importantly, to their intergenerational structure. A system of secrecy preserved across decades by trusted families, private enterprises, government billets, and cleared personnel who inherit access, authority and control. You know the first name that jumped out at me there when I read that?
- [70:53]
D
Who?
- [70:54]
A
Chris Mellon.
- [70:56]
D
Yeah. Yeah.
- [70:59]
A
I always. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. But I. I was always very much with Melon, where a guy with that level of authority, that sort of money, the. A guy whose family was one of the founding families of the US from all intents and purposes, doesn't need to come out and chat about UFOs to make a couple of dollars off of a book, a book he's never released. But, you know, it just seems like I don't think he's into the stars for a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That, that's, that's change to him. It doesn't really make much difference. But we've, we've had Ross Kilter come out and say that Lou Elizondo has not been forthcoming. He's part of the Legacy Program. Are we going to see that? There's other individuals who have been out in public for some time who may perhaps be part of the Legacy Program, But I'm not saying that's necessarily from a nefarious point of view. It could be they're out trying to get information out and this is the way to do it. It could be that they are trying to control a narrative, control an agenda, or maybe as something sinister, I don't know. But what's your take on that?
- [72:09]
D
Well, you know, there's a number of people who report on this stuff. Who claims often, oh, I speak to people from the Legacy Program, and it's like, who exactly are you speaking to? Right. I've never had a contact with anybody from, from any type of program like that, but I have had some interactions with people that make me think there's a possibility that they might be related to the topic through aerospace or through the scientific community. And there's been more than two or three interactions that I've had with people who are like, slightly younger and they're looking into the topic. And when they start telling me a little bit about their history, they're like, oh, yeah, my dad used to work for Lockheed Martin. I'm like, oh, really? Or oh, yeah, my dad helped create so and so Missile. It's like. And they're interested in the topic and it's just really weird. Some of them are even also scientists, like their parents, stuff like that. And it's like, they don't. You, you don't get a confirmation or anything if you ask the question directly of whether they're part of that or not. But it's a really interesting phenomenon that there's a lot of people like that that seem to be kids of people who are involved in aerospace, propulsion, astrobiology, stuff like that. And they don't have to really tell you, but you, you start thinking twice right when it comes. And there's a lot of people like that in the community at large, I think.
- [73:45]
A
Yeah. Curious on Christine saying, I don't see the point in casting aspersions without a basis. And Any evidence? Don't know if that was named aimed at the ME commenting on Melon, but I'm just curious, given Chris Mellon's level of authority and that we're now hearing. There are people in the Legacy program, but like I say, is it they're trying to get information out, directly or indirectly, that they're trying to influence this, that they've come out under the guise of not being part of that, but now that conversation is happening, they're able to just come forward and say a bit more and a little bit more, and maybe they feel this is going in the right direction. I don't know.
- [74:29]
D
I think there's also the underlying aspect of this sense of urgency that they've had since at least 2017. Right. Because before. Before a certain period of time, they weren't. They didn't seem interested in releasing anything. And then after 2017, it seems like it's just ramping up. So to me, that also tells me that there might be a piece of this puzzle or somebody who's part of this that has this sense of urgency because of something we don't know what. We've been speculating about what for years now. We also have to mention that there is this sense of what appears to be urgency to release this stuff.
- [75:12]
A
We're still looking at like a decade, though. Is that really that urgent? Or are you looking at maybe the more cosmic timescale of the COVID if you.
- [75:21]
D
If you compare it to the 80 years? I don't think we've had pre2017. I don't think we've had this much activity on the topic ever in the media and the Internet landscape, all that. We've never been as bombarded with information about UFOs as we are currently. And over the past 10 years or
- [75:46]
A
so, when you think of it, though, you can even go back before that to when you had a lot of these folks in various positions, including, you know, DeLong with the initial John Podesta, Hillary Clinton movement and trying to put together an initial A team. And it seems like one of the stories was the two of the stars team was almost the B team because of how the election went. And, you know, Podesta Clinton not getting in. That, to me, has always been really interesting. So these folks have been around even before 2017 in various positions in the government and office. And maybe it just. It was the time of these different characters and personalities looking to get this stuff out. And it started with conversations in the back calls of government, you know, over a coffee by the Water cooler, you know. Pavel, how you getting on? Yeah, I'm good. Just working on this. Yeah, me, I've been hearing this kind of stuff and we need to try and get that stuff out and then it just takes time to get there. To the point are we now to fast forward 10 years at a point where Dr. Phil with his millions of followers and he has a mainstream celebrity is coming out and talking about the UFO topic. He's talking about, you know, having early access to files and yeah, I don't think the UFO community saw his comments and went oh my God, wow, that's incredible. He's giving us new information but he's, he's giving 1.5 million people on his ex a look at a topic that they're maybe glancing by or brushing by. And then I've seen more than Anything since drop four, I have seen clips of Dr. Phil across multiple different social media platforms. 30 seconds, 45 seconds, 50 seconds. Talking about orbs, talking about crash retrieval programs, talking about COVID ups. That's the stuff that changes populist thinking really quickly more than, and can I just say that's really like some people might not like to hear this but you know, the initial government drop, the first drop of files and we had the 1 billion hits. It wasn't 1 billion people, it was 1 billion clicks on the site. So it boiled down to probably more like a few million. A few, I looked at a few different ways of breaking it down. Perhaps a few million visits really. But then you could break that down to Pavel was on that site 25 times. It was still popular, it was still massive and it still got attention but it wasn't a billion people clicked on that website. That's not what happened. Yeah, so it's just different ways of hitting different areas of the public. And again to go back to 2016 from perhaps quiet conversations with groups of individuals, are we now at a place 10 years later where the plan is still evolving and we now have more mainstream celebrities sitting down talking about that, going, there's something to this. Because I'll tell you this, Pavel, on the show I'd done on, on Saturday on the news, it was one of the first times I really felt the, the host, the newsreader, he was really into the topic and he was almost like backing me up and defending me and wanting to hear more. And I think you're starting to see that more where it's not being laughed at, not all the time but as often and people are more willing to entertain the conversation. And as your Dr. Phil, just another and a line of celebrities who are going to talk about this, who are going to come out. I've been invited to be on a podcast in the UK that has nothing to do with UFOs. It's not like huge, hundreds of thousands and people. It's not bad though. I hadn't heard of it personally, but they get decent views and they want me to come on and speak about the UFO topic from a UK perspective. And I think, well, that's, that's pretty cool because they don't entertain this. So again, there's another aspect where another audience is going to get to hear if I go on about UFOs. And I think that's. That's a change. I think a definite.
- [80:04]
D
It's a net positive. I saw a lot of people complaining about it being Dr. Phil. Why is he getting early access? I think that had he taken this or covered it in a joking sort of fashion, I would have an entirely different reaction to it. But man, he's like using the talking points that are essentially that the government has been hiding this from us. I'm pissed off at the government and. And it seems like he's taking it seriously. So to me, anybody who has that level of following, who talks about the topic in a serious manner, I think it's a good thing. It's a net positive for me. But, you know, I get it. There's people. I mean, you can be perfect. Not everybody likes Dr. Phil. There are a lot of things that I disagree with him about. But if he takes this seriously, honestly, I don't care about those other things as long as he brings more awareness to what's happening. And if it brings more people that are new to the topic on board, to me, that's good.
- [81:10]
A
So sometimes bad people can do good things. Pavl. That's what you're saying.
- [81:16]
D
I don't know if I would categorize Dr. Phil as a bad person.
- [81:21]
A
I'm not comparing Dr. Phil to Stephen
- [81:23]
D
Miller, folks, to be honest with you.
- [81:25]
A
Yeah, but there's a point though, like Hellcat saying, someone must have started directing Neil degrass Tyson differently. I. I don't think so. Honestly. I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson's still a bit of a dick about the UFO topic. I still think he's very condescending when he speaks about it. And his book is not. It is not complimentary about the topic at all. It's quite sneering and laughing along the way. I would have loved to have got the chance to speak to him about it and I would have been very fair and honest with him. But it is not a change of direct. I think a lot of folks have seen Neil DeGrasse Tyson write a book about UFOs and alien contact as if he has had a change himself and some things he's about turned. That's not the case. It's not. It's not what's happened. And I think when we see DeGrasse Tyson genuinely change his mind and that'll be a little bit, A little bit different.
- [82:17]
D
I think that if that happens, he's gonna get a little freaked out about it.
- [82:21]
A
Yeah,
- [82:24]
D
we're gonna see it in real time, huh?
- [82:26]
A
Yeah. What. What will be frustrating though is after, after Disclosure ad is when you've got Neil degrasse Tyson sitting, talking about this subject as if he's some kind of expert and has always all along been there. I'm not calling for me to be that guy, Pavel. There's far better qualified people than that. But that'll be frustrating to me.
- [82:47]
D
Yeah, yeah, it will be. I'm not saying it won't. I do think that there's this type of action that some of the people within the mainstream or, or Hollywood tend to take when they get involved in the topic. And there's something that Dan Farah is very guilty of as well is that you want to put out a product like a documentary here and we saw how Matthew Brown qualified it. But if you want to put out a product where there's a community that has been looking into it for decades now and you only act as if the mainstream matters and you actively dismiss the opinions of people from the UFO community, I think that is a gross mistake that people like Dan Farah make because they don't think that them speaking to the community is worthy of whatever they're trying to do. They think that only through mainstream only speak to cnn, only speak to, you know, these media outlets, but when it comes to the community, they're even dismissive about him. And I think that's not knowing how to read the room in a sense. But also it tells me that Dan doesn't care about that, that he only wants to put out a specific message and he doesn't want to be questioned about it. And I'm using Dan's example because to me that's a very specific contrast between what Matt is talking about and trying to talk about the crimes, which I think is very important. And damn Farah, who wants to like paint a specific scenario that is happening out of a sense of Urgency and get that sense of urgency in people.
- [84:40]
A
And to be fair, I will die on the hill that it was the UFO community that bought Dan Farah's documentary, not the general public. The general public watched his clips that went viral on social media. They did not watch that documentary. And I know there was folks who were like got in touch with me, Andy. I showed friends and family and they were blown away. I offered to pay for folks to watch it that I know and the few that did eventually off their own back go to watch it didn't last too long because they felt it was boring. They were like where's the video? It's just Gary's talking. They did not like that at all. So yeah. But yeah. Shall we move on from, from Matthew Brown? Really good article. Highly recommend it folks. Pavel, where are we going to next?
- [85:34]
D
You know this. I don't know. You had a couple of things too, right?
- [85:40]
A
Yeah. I wanted to touch on Louis on those comments on the, the Japanese show that were brought up by Ross Coultar as well and also a little bit on Antarctica because I've got some interviews coming up. We won't go too much longer because it is quite late here in the UK as well. But can we touch on these comments first? It got a lot of folks talking in the community. I'll play the clip just now.
- [86:03]
D
Yep.
- [86:04]
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- [87:04]
D
Show on the lunar surface what appear there. There's also photographs that I don't believe have been made public yet that that show on the lunar surface what appear to be large monolithic structures with right angle cuts that appear to be to be on the lunar surface. And I believe those photographs, if they have not been released yet, may be released soon. But they are certainly very intriguing looking at these objects from space.
- [87:39]
A
So Louis Elizondo saying, when we've seen there are photographs just now, and when you're talking I'll try and grab one of them, that there are photographs that have not been released yet of objects on the moon that he believes should be getting released soon. What's your take on this?
- [87:57]
D
Well, the moon has always been really strange to me. I do believe that we went to the Moon as in humanity back in the 60s, I do believe that. But there's always been something off about that entire period of time that I just can't quite put my finger on. And when it comes to the, the surface of the moon, I'm sure you read Penetration by Ingo Swan. That's a very interesting take on what something that potentially happened when it comes to this. It's coming from Lou. So I think that we need other sources to also discuss it. I know that it's been discussed before by Mr. Wolf and the Disclosure Project back in 2001. This is not new information by any means. Like we've all heard before that there are pictures that are classified that have not seen the light of day. If something comes out, I'll give credit to Lou for saying it. But right now I have low conviction on that happening.
- [89:07]
A
Can you see the, the pictures I've got up just now, Pavel?
- [89:09]
D
Yes, yes.
- [89:10]
A
Yeah, it's very much pictures like these where they're saying they've got these and some folks will say they're just bumps, they're just rocks, but there are some pretty weird looking interesting objects on, on the moon potentially. I'm all for that. Ross Coulter also mentioned similarly that he's, he's aware of this kind of stuff, that he knows there's photographs that are out there. But Lou is hinting at other photographs coming out. He mentions not only the moon, but Mars Phobos, the moon around Mars also that's rumored to have stuff. Was it Buzz Aldrin? Famously in an interview clip, he also talked about it and said people will one day see these pictures and say who built those? How did they get there? We're getting to a time I don't think we're far off having commercial, not even commercial civilian satellites are going to become a thing eventually where you can have your own satellite. I mean, how far realistically are we off Having a piece of technology, Pavel, where you can fly a drone around the moon, that would be probably pretty easy to do. Can you imagine like if you're, if you're SpaceX, how far are you away from landing on the moon? And imagine you can land on the moon and you can put a thousand drones on the moon that beam a signal back to someone's smartphone and they basically pay for 10 minutes or half an hour and you can control this drone on the moon. It floats about, you've got a live feed. Are we really that far off, that kind of stuff being possible?
- [90:41]
D
You know, I'm kind of ambivalent because I don't even know if we're wanted in the moon or are you going now? I am going there because if, I don't know if, if there are encounters that astronauts went through and they saw some, some stuff and we, I still, it still is not clear to me how is it that with the technology that we had back in the day, we managed to get all the way to the moon and then whatever happened, they, they claim that they lost the, all the data. It's like, Bro, it's 2026. I'm sure there is much better technology to embark on a trip to the moon by this point. And we haven't done it really. We just went around it this year with Artemis. I still need answers for that. What the hell was that about? Why the sudden stop? And you know, so we don't know. I don't know if we're even wanted there, to be honest with you.
- [91:44]
A
Do you think. And obviously there are rumors that the astronauts of various space programs landed. They reported seeing a huge craft over various craters. They reported being watched. That again there's been alluded to the fact that we weren't welcome on the moon. We were warned off going back to the moon by other species or entities. Are we testing the water again, the cosmic water, so to speak, to be like, you know, are we ready for this? We're going to come back up and say hello. I mean China's been doing moon missions. I, I am all for the whole secret space program stuff. I believe the US and other countries have been on the moon multiple times that we do not know about. Got to have been absolutely 100.
- [92:29]
D
Yep. And we just don't know why the public facing of oh, we can't go anymore. And it's been decades that really, that's why I say it's weird, the moon. And you know, if you go back hundreds of years, even thousands, there's A lot of history and a lot of like heroglyphs and you know, that talk about a time when there was no moon, like, and Peruvian culture. This guy, David Belasco, who I had on the show right at the beginning of when I started doing English content, he writes about the secret of Nazca and all this stuff, you know, and there's a lot of people from different cultures there that discuss an era when allegedly there was no moon. And then, then the moon arrived and there were people from the moon who touched land on Earth. And this goes into the history of Viracocha and all of that Incan culture and all that stuff. And I don't know, it's just. There's always been a real weirdness about the moon that is just impossible to crack and unless something is released that makes it clear. But I just want to know why did we stop going really?
- [93:52]
A
Like you say, the idea that it's not a genuine celestial body, that it's, that it's artificial is always a conversation that's, that's been around. There was a, there was a movie a couple of years ago and I can't remember who was in it. Caught. About the moon and the movie.
- [94:09]
D
Sam Rockwell.
- [94:11]
A
Yes. And how.
- [94:13]
D
Well, I think it's called Moon. I think. I'm not sure.
- [94:15]
A
But was it. Yeah. Is that the one with Halberry in it? Yeah.
- [94:18]
D
I'm not sure if it's Halle Berry there, but there is a moon. There is a movie about the moon where Sam Rockwell is.
- [94:26]
A
That, that, that's just, Is that not just the movie where he's just there himself?
- [94:29]
D
Yeah, yeah, that's.
- [94:31]
A
Yeah, it's not that one. It was more of a sci fi one, but it was horrendous. Really, really awful cgi.
- [94:36]
D
No wonder.
- [94:37]
A
Ideas. So someone, someone will comment on the, in the chat and tell us which one it is. But it had Halberry and I'm pretty sure. But it was like so ropey. The CGI was terrible. But yeah, I'm, I love a bit of that. I'm all for it on that. There's also some chat around Antarctica. That was Moonfall. That's the one. Moonfall. Thank you, folks. And I'm going to play this clip from Mr. Ross Coulter over on News Nation just to get up Rob Jones who ditched us last minute today. Pavel. So let me, let me bring this up. American secret bases in Antarctica that I've been apprised of. I'm still doing a lot of research on Antarctica and I'm quite open with people I'm very, very interested in hearing from anyone who's worked there, who has any knowledge. I've been in touch with a guy from Australia who served down there for many, many years with Australia's Antarctic Survey. And he's given me the most extraordinary image, which I'll be bringing you shortly, of a craft, a metallic spherical object that he photographed with a slide film camera hovering over his sled in the middle of nowhere in Antarctica. It's as clear as day. And I'm at the moment endeavoring to work with him to get corroboration from members of a foreign country team who were actually with him at the time so that we can get joint corroboration of what is he says he saw as clear as day hovering above his sled.
- [96:13]
D
Man, I've heard a bunch of like UFO talking heads saying, oh, my jaw dropped, or, you know, sort of embellishing a lot of what they claim to have. I gotta see it, man. Until, until then, just a claim, but I gotta see it. If, if it comes out, kudos to Ross. But for now it's let's wait and see. For me.
- [96:39]
A
Yeah. And Antarctica is one of those ones. I've never done a show on it yet, but it's a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine. I'm finally, after over six years doing the podcast, I've got Brad Olson coming on the podcast in a couple of weeks and we are going to go deep into the weeds or the ice, as you want to call it, of Antarctica. And that whole idea of as this and like the moon, is it an off limits place? We know it's inhospitable to life. There's only very particular ways you can live there, you know, with various like the bases and we know there. He actually mentioned on that about the. That the secret US base that was discovered when the guy was using Strava, the app. Did you see that? Yeah, well, the guy was running and logging his runs, but the runs were showing up literally in the middle of nowhere. And it gave away the position of this American base. Now, I'm not saying they're guarding craft out there or there's any kind of alien versus predator stuff going on, although I do think there's some really weird stuff with Antarctica.
- [97:44]
D
Did you see the whole Oliver tree thing? Did you see that?
- [97:48]
A
Yeah. Right. So this guy who had never heard a single second of his music until he passed away, and now his song is on every single clip my kids play online. Awful haircut, by the way. I've got to Say, but from what I've seen, the guy was like a musician who wasn't very successful until he done that look. And the look got him recognized and that allowed the music to get recognized and fair play to him. He passed away recently. He had made a documentary about Antarctica. I, I've not seen it, but I have had listeners watch it and said that there's nothing like groundbreaking or revelatory.
- [98:28]
D
No, no. What was kind of weird about it is how he died and because it was like a freakish helicopter accident. In the, in the documentary he appears saying that he saw UFOs but he never shows anything really. So maybe it was just for marketing or something. But that was a strange little tidbit of info about Antarctica that I wasn't expecting.
- [98:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's kind of in the news. It's getting talked about. Ross has mentioned that he's looking into it just now. Ross has still got his special to come on portals from UFOs. I think the gear interview is coming out or part one of it at least this weekend however that's being released. So there's a lot of stuff coming up on News Nation. I know some folks accused them of being a little bit sensationalist with some of the stuff that's, that's down to the beauties in the eye of the beholder, I'm sure. But Antarctica is one of those that I've got a big interest in and I am happy to let my wild. My mind wander when it comes to that. I do think there's a whole. If you were going to be a non human species and you wanted to be on this planet, you would be in the water if you could be. For not just even to hide, just for the whole. The whole idea of living on the skin of a planet. The more I hear about it, it's actually the worst place to live because you're exposed to the weather, the elements, the sun, radiation. It's the worst place to be for natural disasters. You know, it's. It's the worst bit of the planet to live on. Much worse than living underground and cave systems or are living under the water. So if you had that technology, yeah, under the water would be great. Or if you're looking to keep yourself out the way, Antarctica. And I'm sure there's folks who remember Covid very fondly listening to and watching this and the isolation. If you could get a really cool hangout in Antarctica with all the ubereats drivers could deliver there that you wanted
- [100:26]
D
and with A ufo.
- [100:28]
A
Yeah. And do you know what? Some good Internet, big TV, PS5. Does it sound that bad a place to live? Probably not.
- [100:36]
D
Yeah.
- [100:38]
A
I would never have to moan about it being too hot to record. That would be a big one for me. So, coming live from Antarctica. But yeah, I think it's a really interesting place. And just to hear Ross mention that at the same. So on like that same show you had Elizondo talking about monoliths on the moon, monoliths on Mars. You've got Ross talking about Antarctica. The photograph of a craft. Again, I'm like, you Pavo?
- [101:01]
D
Where?
- [101:01]
A
I'm like, okay, show us the photograph. And I think there'll be people going. There'll be people going, I don't want to see it. I don't care. It's going to be bollocks. But I'm a sucker for it. Where I'm always going to be like, okay, show me it. And I'm prepared to go and be disappointed. But yeah, I think Pavl's Froz scratching his head. I don't know if he's still there or not. Just about. You sound like a Dalek. If you can hear me. See, this is. This is what happens when you start talking about Antarctica. They managed to interfere with the stream in the system, folks, really good opportunity for me to say make sure you have left a. Like if you've enjoyed this because we have been going an hour and a half now and it's really late here in the UK as Pavel just returns. But if you're on Pavel's feed. If you're on my feed, folks, make sure you leave a. Like, please leave a comment on the main video too, just to see if you've enjoyed it. Leave a question. All of that stuff makes a massive, massive difference. To see if we even. And that's right, they're watching him now. They've interfered with Pavel Stream. Yeah, this is. This is the government. This is the. The bad guys attack it. No. Or it's the broadband. Pavel. Yeah, are we back? Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah, okay, cool. Full conspiracy mode there.
- [102:22]
D
That was so weird.
- [102:23]
A
Yeah, but I've just made the point of folks to like and comment and stuff while you were singing off there. But I don't have much else, man, to go on if you want to start wrapping up or give me anything else you want to kind of finish on.
- [102:36]
D
Yeah, I guess. Just I think hopefully we can get that Gerb and Ross and Ross interview, which I think would be very important and interesting to listen to. And yeah, I don't think anything's gonna happen on Thursday when it comes to Trump's speech article. I think it's very important as well. And thanks everybody for being here.
- [103:02]
A
Yeah, we'll cut you off there Pavel, because you're starting to sound like again right at the very end. But yes, like Pavel says thank you everyone for or what he said was thank you everyone for being here. Very Stephen Hawking esque. So thank you everyone for being here. Like Pawel said, thank you to the folks over on the secoactivo podcast stream. Thanks to everyone over on the that UFO podcast stream if you're watching on X and for those of you in the future watching back replays, likes, comments, subs all make a massive difference. Thank you to any of the super chats, super stickers, all that kind of stuff and also thank you to those listening and watching in the future on audio platforms too. So yeah, with Pavel Stream going to crap I will leave it there for this evening and I'll say good night from both of us if Pavel wants to give it one more go to
- [103:48]
D
say bye bye folks, thank you for being here and I'll see you on the next one.
- [103:54]
A
Awesome. Oh and I'll just finish off by saying this week I've got Peter Scafish interview coming out. That one was really good. Hour and a half we talk about the Scientific Advisory Council. I've got Jonathan Kaplan, who's a King's Council barrister here in the uk. The guy is incredibly highly respected and qualified in his, in his profession and he's written a book that's the number one best seller on UFOs just now, not for Disclosure. And also a couple of other shows that hopefully will be out, including Michael Shermer coming on, who's also on the Scientific Advisory Council, I believe a very good friend of Matt Ford over at the Good Trouble show. So yeah, I look forward to Matt sending over some questions, but yeah, I'm looking forward to all of that. Pavel, have you got much coming up? Because your streams came back so I'm
- [104:42]
D
not, I'm trying to speak to Mr. Kaplan as well, but I think I'm gonna have Dr. John Blitch back on the show over the next couple of weeks. So we got that going for the sequel, Dual Feed.
- [104:57]
A
Nice. Look forward to it. Lots to come. I think it's going to be an interesting couple of weeks ahead. I said this a few days ago and I still think that's going to be the case. I'm intrigued. All for the summer of disclosure or summer of confirmation, if we even get that, who knows. But we're going to be back here every Monday more or less, Pavel, aren't we? Yeah. And also they're being stuff to talk about. We're not just going to do shows for the sake of it, but it seems like a, a good time at the moment for these conversations and thank you to all of you for allowing it to happen.
- [105:27]
D
Yeah, just don't let Mondays get you down. I know it's a Monday. Maybe we can help a little bit there. Hopefully we did. And yeah, we're gonna be doing these consistently on Mondays. I think it's a good combo, right?
- [105:41]
A
Yeah. Unless you're in Australia, in which case it's Tuesday already, so. Well, that's true.
- [105:46]
D
Japan.
- [105:47]
A
Japan. Yeah. Or listening to this in an hour's time. So yeah, folks, have a good one and I'll speak to you soon.
- [105:53]
D
Bye.
- [105:57]
C
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B
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D
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B
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A
All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba. To crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry
- [107:11]
B
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A
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- [107:28]
B
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- [107:35]
D
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B
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A
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D
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B
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D
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A
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B
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- [108:00]
C
Hey everybody, Lady Luck here and we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com, which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over 1000 slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
- [108:24]
B
Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.
- [108:30]
C
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