Dylan Borland, Bigelow’s Disclosure Plan & UAP File Drop 5 | Doomer Friday

Summary

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That UFO Podcast – Doomer Friday (Aug 8, 2026)

Episode: Dylan Borland, Bigelow’s Disclosure Plan & UAP File Drop 5

Main Theme

A panel discussion exploring the latest events and controversies in the UFO/UAP disclosure movement, focusing on the divergent visions for "disclosure," the roles of key players (Dylan Borland, Bob Bigelow, Matt Brown, and others), and the implications of recent developments—including UAP File Drop 5 and the Bigelow "blanket immunity" proposal. Lively debate centers on whether we’re heading toward meaningful public disclosure, who’s controlling the process, and what “confirmation” versus “full disclosure” actually means.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Disclosure: Controlled Chess Game, or Rip the Band-Aid Off?

• A sense of “showdown”: Many old names surfacing: “Everybody seems to have come out the woodwork lately, and it's names we haven't heard from in a little while as well ... chess pieces are being put on the board…" – Xander (06:00)
• Controlled Disclosure: Some panelists argue we are already mid-process, but the approach is slow and sanitized.
  • “Disclosure is apparently well underway, but it could go either way right now. And, you know, some people are kind of upset about the direction that things are headed…” – Clint (03:31)
  • “I think it's also because of caution, because there's information that we don't have ...they seem to know something that they're not telling the public and that's why they are so adamant on it happening in a certain way.” – Pavel (08:31)

2. Two Competing Models for Disclosure

• Model A: Controlled, Soft, Corporate-led Confirmation
  Embodied by Bigelow and aligned with some institutional actors.

  • Proposes a president (e.g., Trump) make a limited statement confirming NHI (non-human intelligence), then grant blanket immunity to gatekeepers, allowing legacy programs and contractors to maintain proprietary control.
  • “It sounds like a pitch. Like: hey guys, wouldn't it be cool?...Now they don't have to. They can step out from behind their NDAs and they can start really, really making money. That's what this sounds like.” – Clint (27:21)
  • Xander reflects on dangers of proprietary NHI tech: “If we allow this technology to stay within these companies and patentable, then we get ushered into a cul de sac of absolute complete control where they have dominance over the energy of the entire planet and a legal document to back it up. That's the one thing I want to avoid more than anything else.” (37:53)
  • Bigelow's position, as paraphrased: “Soft disclosure. Technology stays proprietary. Blanket immunity for gatekeepers. Legacy programs 'ain’t so bad.'” – Xander (53:41)

• Model B: Full Truth, Restitution, Whistleblower-driven
  Embodied by Dylan Borland, Matt Brown, and Jesse Michaels, calling for rapid and genuine disclosure.

  • "Matt [Brown] thinks the Band-Aid should be ripped off. That's what I think. And I think that Dylan is in the same camp. That's why they're working together." – Pavel (09:03)
  • “One of the big phrases I heard Dylan say again and again...is restitution. He used the word restitution more than anything else. So it's making right what was wrong...making whole the people.” – Xander (61:42)
  • Looking for true accounting and accountability for past crimes, and advocating for open, civilian access to knowledge.

3. The Impending UAP File Drops — “Tranche 5”

• Disappointment with the quality of UAP file drops so far; new releases are "blobs" or ambiguous dots, with very limited detail.
  • “Of the 16 [videos], six of them are from one event...it shows nothing...There's very little clarity.” – Andy (140:18)
  • “It is all strictly dots on a screen, which makes me think...they are absolutely not giving us the...good stuff.” – Xander (144:21)
  • Noted that most file releases come from the FBI, with the CIA "shitting in their hands and clapping" i.e., providing useless files. – Andy (142:57)
  • “We're looking to see something else coming down the pipeline. Maybe we get something in the coming days. Grushy 60 to 90 day timeline is up…If we don't have anything say by the end of next week...then I'd like to hear from Grush as to what's happened...” – Andy (134:28)

4. Closed Loops: Gatekeeping, Control, and the Question of "Heroes"

• Bigelow calls secrecy keepers “heroes of a different kind” for holding burdensome secrets, even from their own families (52:42).
  • “They're advocating for something that is against the principles of the way the US government currently operates...” – Xander (28:16)
  • Discussion of the “old guard” dying out in both government and aerospace/academic sectors, with new players jockeying for position (42:00).
• Panel debates human versus NHI (non-human intelligence) control—are humans even running the show anymore?
  • “Are the—Is the non human intelligence in control of the cover-up too?” – Dylan Borland (65:46)
  • “[The ICIG] extremely hinted at it, yes.” – Jesse Michaels on whether humans are in charge (66:12)
  • "What does 'run the show' mean? What does that even mean?" – Clint (69:54)

5. What Counts as "Confirmation"?

• Distinction between "confirmation" (acknowledgment of NHI presence) and "full disclosure" (telling the whole story).
  • “For me, we're not heading towards disclosure. That's still a ways away. But I think we're pressing towards some form of confirmation...” – Andy (10:06)
  • “Full disclosure, we don't know what that is. And most of the folks trying to get this out don't know what the full picture is...” – Andy (13:38)
  • “We're not just covering up aliens, bro. That's not the only thing that they're covering up. It's...ancient history, it's psy abilities, it's whatever psychedelic substances really are because we don't really know what they are...” – Pavel (14:33)

6. Broader Stakes: What Happens After Confirmation?

• Discussion of ripple effects: global politics, cultural/religious beliefs, industry.
  • “If your company A, that has had a flying saucer for 40 to 50 years and working on it, and your company B, who hasn't?...company B's are relevant overnight if that comes out…” – Andy (33:48)
  • “Do we have contact with another advanced civilization...Is that happening? I think, like, that's the only question...that matters at this stage.” – Clint (44:10)
  • “Once confirmation happens, it's all just going to go completely silent. I highly, highly doubt that happens.” – Pavel (46:01)

7. Would "Cataclysm" Justify Secrecy?

• Classic arguments for keeping the full story secret—prevention of mass panic, rumors of impending cataclysms, the need for slow acclimatization, etc.
  • “If you tell people today, then for the next decade it's chaos. Everybody's just going to lose their shit because they'll be counting down the days.” – Clint (98:01)
  • “It could be the case that one of these agreements would...be the fact that maybe NHI were the ones [who require secrecy]...maybe they do deserve blanket immunity. Because if, if killing, if...whistleblowers stops the rest of humanity from being extinguished because it's not allowed to know the truth, then that is a very gray area.” – Xander (101:13)
  • But the counterpoint: “We already went through something like sort of a test of something catastrophic and it was a show.” [On COVID] – Pavel (116:48)

8. Disclosure as Opportunity (or Missed Opportunity)

• Celebrates disclosure as a potentially transformative, positive unifier if handled well.
  • “I think the disclosure conversation shouldn't be looked at as this like, shit show. It's an opportunity to spend the most valuable single coin we will ever spend to reset the mind, the mindset of all people, and give us something new to focus on that could be positive.” – Clint (119:04)
  • Counter: “We have had opportunity after opportunity. Human society does not work like that.” – Andy (124:09)
  • “There is no example that backs up any of the blue sky thinking that as a society we will all one day join hands and sing Kumbaya.” – Andy (124:25)

9. Practical Outcomes & Next Steps

• “What's realistic? What's aspirational?”
  • Many panel members expect a messy, incremental confirmation rather than a clean worldview-resetting disclosure.
  • “I imagine the days and weeks after we get that confirmation, people are still at work. The world goes on. The banks will be open, the stock markets will be there, the dummer meter will be at 12, etc. etc. That's what will happen. The world will carry on, but with a new knowledge. And it will take time for things to change, assimilate, etc.” – Andy (125:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We need like a full on Leroy Jenkins moment.” – Andy (10:44)

  • Panel’s recurring inside joke: debating whether it’s better to “charge ahead” with disclosure and accept the chaos (“Leroy Jenkins!”), or keep it gradual and controlled.

• “Blanket immunity, legacy programs, ‘ain’t so bad’. That’s basically the heroes comment.” – Xander (53:41)

  • Satirical “disclosure board,” sorting figures into “Team Controlled Disclosure” vs. “Team Full Transparency.”

• “He said the ICIG essentially hinted heavily at that. That he says, ‘Who do you think is running the show?’ That was his statement.” – Pavel on dramatic claims of NHI influence (69:42)

• “Everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion, and it's Like a flooded information zone now. So so much of what's being said I can understand…” – Andy on modern information chaos (90:08)

• “If we allow this technology to stay within these companies and patentable, then we get ushered into a cul de sac of absolute complete control…” – Xander (37:53)

• “I believe we have a right to know, like Even if those fundamental truths are really painful, we deserve the right to know particularly truths.” – Xander (98:49)

• “There's no way that doesn't come up. That becomes immediately a core issue... What is our alien policy? What is our NHI policy?” – Clint (46:09)

• Reagan UN Speech Quote:

  • “Some outside universal threat. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? … What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war.” – Ronald Reagan, played by Clint (125:34)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:31] Introduction to the panel, outline of the current "showdown" in disclosure
• [06:00] Return of major players; sense of “chess pieces on the board”
• [09:01] Controlled vs. rapid transparency debate—Band-Aid versus slow drip
• [10:44] “Leroy Jenkins” comparison—argument for a bold disclosure move
• [13:38] What counts as confirmation vs. full disclosure
• [27:21] Panel dissects Bigelow’s “stock pitch” and implications for corporate advantage
• [36:52] Proprietary technology, patents, and societal impact after confirmation
• [42:00] “Old guard dying out” and generational change in aerospace and government
• [52:41] Bigelow’s “heroes” clip: keeping secrets as a noble sacrifice?
• [65:46–69:42] Jesse Michaels & Dylan Borland discuss ICIG hinting humans aren’t fully in control
• [90:08] Flooded information landscape, chaos of voices post-social media
• [98:01] Cataclysm/Armageddon as justification for secrecy
• [119:04] Disclosure as the unique, never-again moment to unify humanity
• [124:09] Andy’s Doomer Friday rebuttal: why society never seizes its transformative moments
• [140:18] Dissecting UAP File Drop 5: “worse than expected” quality of evidence

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Host & Panel Attribution

• Host: Andy McGillin (That UFO Podcast)
• Guests/Panelists: Clint, Pavel, Xander, Jesse Michaels, Bob Bigelow, Dylan Borland (featured/in chat), Bob Dean (archival clips)

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is lively, humorous, and occasionally dark ("Doomer Friday"), balancing realism with moments of hope and exasperation. The panel is skeptical of sanitized, corporate-friendly “confirmation” and concerned about power plays, but not naively utopian about sudden global transformation. All agree: whatever “disclosure” is, it’s not going to be simple or uncontested. The debate continues, with panelists urging listeners to keep questioning—and keep looking up.

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Takeaway:
We're likely on the verge of incremental, heavily controlled confirmation rather than full-throated disclosure. The era is defined by tactical power plays among entrenched interests, while whistleblowers and activists push for true transparency and restitution. The stakes—technological, political, even existential—have never been higher or more opaque. The debate is far from over, and the "doom meter" may ratchet even higher in coming weeks.

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(For further engagement, listeners are encouraged to follow the panelists, check out Andy's "Atlas of UFOs," and participate in future Doomer Friday sessions.)

Transcript

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[Andy McGillin]

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[Clint]

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[Xander]

Curious.

[Clint]

Visit www.viseryhealth. From around the world and across the Internet, it's the night shift. Your safe space for talking about UFOs, UAPs, disclosure, all of it. It's Been a complicated week. Matt Brown, Dylan Borland, Bob Bigelow, uap, Gerb, Ross Coltart, Lou Elizondo. Everybody's getting involved and it looks like something's happening. We're not quite sure what yet, but we're going to try to get to the bottom of it today. So welcome, everybody. Great to see all of you in the chat. We've got already up to almost 600 people in here. Do me a favor and hit that like button, if you don't mind. It really does help help the show, and we're streaming across multiple channels today across our whole panel of guests. So it's very exciting and it's going to be a lively chat. So I'm sure you guys have opinions on this. Disclosure is apparently well underway, but it could go either way right now. And, you know, some people are kind of upset about the direction that things are headed in, so we'll talk about that in a moment. And also, don't forget to go to doomer Friday.comvote and keep that browser open because as the show goes on, we do tend to get doomier and doomier. And you'll be able to vote on the Doom meter. We are at a doom factor of two right now, and we. It's, it's. It's happened that we've gotten up to 11. We might get up to 11 tonight. So if you already had your browser open, by the way, hit refresh on that because if we hit 11 today, something is supposed to happen. I don't know what. They won't tell me. All right, guys, let's say hi to our panel. Returning champion all the way from Scotland, Andy McGrillin, that UFO podcast. How you doing, sir?

[Andy McGillin]

Good to be here. Good to see you all. Thank you for having me. Let's go.

[Clint]

And of course, we've got Pavel from CECO Activo and Xander, proprietor of the Dreamland Motel. And we have a lot to talk about, guys.

[Xander]

It's a busy, slow week.

[Clint]

It's a business week. Just when you think it's. You're gonna pack it in and give up on UFOs, we get one of these. Where should we start?

[Xander]

You're the host.

[Clint]

Well, you put it on me. How about the Bob Bigelow?

[Jesse Michaels]

I.

[Clint]

Well, see, I started out okay. I was. I. This, this is how last week I was blowing. My mind was just being blown away by the Matt Brown interview on Judicial Watch. That's what I started with. Okay, so I'm watching Matt Brown on Judicial Watch. And what was really interesting about that interview is the way that the questions are asked because it's Judicial Watch and they're speaking the same language. The two work really well together. And Matt kind of flies. He soars like an eagle in that interview and explains quite a bit. But right as that was happening, then the Bob Bigelow, George Knapp thing dropped, and I got sucked into that. And then the Dylan Borland, Jesse Michaels interview, and we're all over the place now. So if we have to start anywhere, why don't we start with. With Matt, and then we'll work our way through the list.

[Pavel]

He's been pretty active, and I. I do like that. Right. With his. Also his substack Invisible Frontiers, he's written a couple of pieces over the last week, so that's. That's positive, I think. Sander, you were gonna say something. Sorry.

[Xander]

I was like, there's this. There's a broader observation right off the bat is everybody seems to have come out the woodwork lately, and it's names we haven't heard from in a little while as well. And we were talking about sort of what this might mean. And it almost feels a bit like the chess pieces are being put on the board in preparation for some sort of game that's gonna happen. And it feels like everybody's just making sure they're in their right spot, they've got their positions known, so that whenever. Whatever happens, they. They've got their camp.

[Clint]

Yes, yes, yes. All. All of this.

[Pavel]

I think I. I think this is. Well, essentially we're seeing the plane out because. And Matt is a big part of that because he was the one who was like, I didn't hear no bell. Deep state disclosure is dead. And it was like Cam just straight up challenging. Right. And, you know, it seems like the deep state disclosure. What. Whatever he meant by that, to me, that is the controlled, sanitized disclosure that we're getting. To me, that is what that is.

[Clint]

Right.

[Pavel]

And. And I. I don't think it's that. I think it's going exactly as scheduled. And. And people who don't agree with it are doing their best to present what they have right now. Remember, we got the midterms coming up. This guy Ogles, who a lot of people don't like, just lost his primary. And he was a UFO guy. He was part of the caucus at some point. So most Republicans, the most people Republicans are the ones that are the most prevalent in the UFO supporting group, the caucus. And what if they lose, too? So, you know, there's no confirmation or there's no hint that whoever wins or beats them is going to continue paying attention to this topic. So it makes sense that things are just ramping up now and we're gonna, we're gonna be seeing a lot of stuff drop before the primaries, I can guarantee you that.

[Clint]

So you think that we are well into the disclosure process and we are on track with the controlled disclosure narrative. We're exactly where they want us to be. That's what your read is.

[Pavel]

Well, I think it's also because of caution, because there's information that we don't have.

[Clint]

Right.

[Pavel]

And there's information that a lot of those people do have. So they're acting with this. And, and I still don't know if it's like self serving or if it's for the greater good. I still don't know that. I'm not gonna presume that I do. But they seem to know something that they're not telling the public and that's why they are so adamant on it happening in a certain way.

[Clint]

You know, know the sense of urgency.

[Pavel]

Yeah, and, yeah, and, and, and Matt, things that the band Aid should be ripped off. That's what I think. And, and I think that Dylan is in the same camp. That's why they're working together. But seeing the Bigelow interviews, like he seems to be on the other camp that they wanted controlled. He, he even said like, you, President Trump should just say like a little phrase that he mentioned and that's it. He shouldn't give out any more explanation. He shouldn't give out a speech or he should just say this on Air Force One.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Pavel]

And that's it. I'm like, huh? What the.

[Clint]

I have so many questions about that one.

[Bob Bigelow]

I.

[Clint]

We'll circle back to Bigelow in a second. Andy, what do you think is going on right now? We see a lot of activity. All of these different names and faces are coming out of the woodwork and it seems like there's a real showdown happening over what kind of disclosure we actually talking about here. Is that your read? What do you think? What do you make of all this?

[Andy McGillin]

So I get the look that there's people are moving into place and maybe chess pieces are being moved around the board. What I hope happens though, because I think if we, if this is being played too nicely in the background and people are relying on policy and, and rhetoric and debate, that's not going to get is what we want. One of my favorite videos online is have you seen the guys playing World of World of Warcraft and they're setting up for a raid. And I never really played World of Warcraft, believe it or not. And the guy's kind of like, oh, so yeah, we need the Paladin Knights to invade the guys over here and

[Xander]

then we need to Leroy Jenkins.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah. And then one guy just goes, Leroy Jenkins and just storms and ahead of them all and they're like, no, no, no, don't do that. And it just causes chaos. We need like a full on Leroy Jenkins moment. That really blows this open for me. That's where I think we are. Because if we keep trying to do this, I see we, you know, we are maybe doing whatever we're doing, but the guys in the background and the politics, no matter who the agendas are, because one thing's for sure, these people don't all align. And this is something I talked about even the other day with Pavel and various folks that speaking when I spoke to a couple of folks at the soul Symposium, I won't name names, but all these big names aren't aligned. They don't all agree, they don't all have the same agenda. They don't like each other, some of them don't like each other. But that's normal. That's human nature. But it doesn't mean it's always a bad thing that they want different things from this. For me, we're not heading towards disclosure. That's still a ways away. But I think we're pressing towards some form of confirmation and I think early on and more pressingly if we can get confirmation, we have something in our midst. We are aware of a non human intelligence similar to what Bigelow told Trump to say. Yeah, we've got an NHI presence interacting with us. It's been here for a while, we've maybe got some tech, we're looking into it. Something that just blows the door open. That for me, capital C confirmation. But Richard Dolan is the one who always talks about that would be good enough for me and I think is where we're heading just now.

[Clint]

I think a big part of the question is like from in my mind, just closure or some kind of confirmation is the small D disclosure. Right. That would be like disclosing without really telling you anything. And I feel like that's really the question is like sounds like that's what Bigelow is gearing up for. He would prefer a situation where the President confirms and then issues a blanket immunity so that a bunch of behind the scenes shit can happen that the rest of us aren't going to be privy to and it'll all be contained in a corporate world. And then the other camp seems to be saying, no, if you're going to disclose, you can't just half disclose. You have to give us a status report. Like where are we in the research on these things? And that information has to become, at least a lot of it has to become available to independent scientists and labs to look at. Right? We can't keep it all locked up. So I feel like there's a. It's shaping up like those are the two sides of this argument. Like is there an open source disclosure that really, as David Grush says, open kimono and just goes into everything or is it more of like a. Okay, fine, aliens are real, but we're still not going to tell you anything, right?

[Andy McGillin]

Can I Clint, see on that, this is something that gets me though is no one knows what the whole truth is, right? This isn't just about is there aliens or not? Because confirmation settles that. Full disclosure. We don't know what that is. And most of the folks trying to get this out don't know what the full picture is. We don't know if anyone knows. So. Two seconds, Pavel. I would. How would we. Because we've argued about this. How would we know what we are being told as or isn't the full picture? And then how do you know? After we get the answer of are we alone or not? How do we know this is everything? Oh no, there's more. So then you just, you get different levels of disclosure and how do you know you've got everything. And what if they don't know everything? At what point can they come out and say, and I see they, whoever is going to be the gatekeepers of this when they come out and say that that is literally all of it, is that going to satisfy people?

[Pavel]

We're not just covering up aliens, bro. That's not the only thing that they're covering up. It's y ancient history, it's psy abilities, it's whatever psychedelic substances really are because we don't really know what they are. We know what they can do to. To us, but we haven't studied them really.

[Andy McGillin]

And what else?

[Pavel]

There's a lot of stuff there like

[Andy McGillin]

when does it stop?

[Pavel]

It doesn't.

[Xander]

It stops when we're happy. That's basically it. It stops when we feel like we've done the job. And that's, it's. There's a, there's a lot of instances where we think we only need this one last thing and then I'll be happy. And that's just never the way it goes. So you're probably right, Andy. And it's never going to stop. I thought the, the Leroy Jenkins analogy is brilliant for a few reasons. Because I think it might be the case that they're trying to figure out a way to do any kind of disclosure that simply must happen for a variety of different reasons. That avoids the Leroy Jenkins moment. Because if you've seen the rest of the video, you've seen everybody dies. So they're probably trying to avoid the Leroy. And it's kind of evidenced by the fact that we got tranche five today. Clearly, legacy programs are not playing ball. Still, like they have a secret. They still want to keep that secret for as long as possible. So that's going to continue. The tranches are going to continue to be disappointing until many of us lose interest. So the Leroy Jenkins, in my opinion, is not government related. It's not legacy program related. It's a whistleblower. Is Leroy Jenkins right now, that's the option for the whistleblower.

[Clint]

Is David Grush Leroy Jenkins? No.

[Xander]

Maybe. But that whoever it is has to come with the defining evidence that we need more.

[Pavel]

Can I tell you why not?

[Clint]

Yeah, why not?

[Pavel]

Because I think he's been interacting with people like Melon or Lou for a long time. And even if he's earnest and he has the best intentions, he's already tangled up with them and he can't really get out of the. It's a symbiotic kind of relationship now by this point. And, and I think that's. That's a problem because he's also constrained like they are. And to me, we need another moment. Like Snowden, but with this stuff. And I know that the, the repercussions of that. Let's just look at what happened with Snowden. Like he essentially jeopardized a lot of agents. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

[Clint]

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[Xander]

We feast.

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[Pavel]

Who are operating abroad for his country. Which that's what pissed people off. Right? But the, the reaction from the people to that event, I think it could have been bigger, but I don't know if this. There's only one person that I can think of that hasn't gone through Dobser and is not constrained like the majority are.

[Andy McGillin]

So in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Okay, so if, if we have got these folks that we know right now, Grush, Elizondo, Melon, take your pick, right? Whoever you want to pick your champion, pick your character, your avatar, maybe they can only take us so far. And I would love to. I'll ask Pavel and if you guys want to give me an answer, if we say that at the end of the day, the ultimate. Sorry for the noise, the ultimate Gatekeeper would have a knowledge of 10 and they know the most of anyone. Realistically, where do you think Grush sits on the scale of 10 being I know everything about what's going on to 1 being your average member of the public who doesn't really care

[Pavel]

about a

[Andy McGillin]

7 I'd see at most. Yeah. So that comes.

[Clint]

But isn't that better than, than, I mean any, any information that we can get is good. The idea that we're going to get to the absolute end of the rabbit hole is ludicrous. I think everybody understands that no one, no one expects us to uncover all of the secrecy all the way down to the very last person. But if you have a guy and not just one person, but multiple different people telling you all the same thing. Look, there are craft, there are bodies, there are multiple different types of bodies, apparently from different places. You know, maybe there was contact that was made initiated with some of these. Maybe it was formal contact. I mean, you even have Dan Farah talking about the Holloman Air Force Base landing being possibly one of the things they might actually release because there's a rock solid chain of custody. They could, they could pinpoint that in time, say this is an actual meeting that took place. But like, once you open this can of worms, we're just going to have to keep digging forever. I don't think there's any. And I think that just because the secrecy is so deep and opaque, it's not. That in and of itself is not a reason to proceed aggressively at trying to figure out what's going on. I think the messaging around this is just so confusing because on the one hand, you've got Lou Elizondo accusing UAP GERB of being deceptive. Right on News Nation. And UAP GERB was saying Lou Elizondo has this tie to the Legacy program and this is what's going on. But Lou Elizondo knowingly showed pictures of things that were absolutely not UFOs, like a chandelier and a fucking crop circle, you know, whatever it was, crop, irrigation circle, photo, to crowds of people and presented those as evidence. And he was wrong. So there seems to be a scramble to control the way this information hits the public and how much digging there actually is. And particularly maybe it is ahead of the November elections problem, maybe that is what's going on. But it does seem, and this is what Xander and I were talking about earlier, the timing seems like crazy. It's all very compressed. Right. This whole thing, this whole crazy beef with, with Gerb and Lou and Grush and Ross all took off in the last 14 days.

[Pavel]

Yeah, I don't think it's. It's what we should be focusing on, if I'm honest with you, that the beef, like, not that beef.

[Clint]

I'm saying that beef is, is a, is one piece of it. But then on top of all that you had all of these other things, then you've got this crazy interview with Bigelow, which we have to show this clip from in just a second. There's a great clip here. Matt Brown, Dylan Borland, of course, these are all, you know, recorded different dates and released whenever. But the volume of. Of activity. Right. Like the amount of things that are all twisting right now.

[Pavel]

I had something real quick where the frustration for a lot of people comes from that, I think, I don't know if you guys remember when Matthew Brown was at the Disclosure Forum event and when he started talking about Experiencers Station comes from there. Because there's a lot of people that have been going through for many of them their entire lives and they have been gaslighted for their entire lives about it. They've been told that it's not real, that it's their imagination, that they have schizophrenia. And the government is like, essentially not, not willing to tell them whether it's related to that or not. And, and I think that's where a lot of the, or most of the frustration from the people come from, because they've been having this contact with the phenomenon for, for a long time. It's been happening for millennia. And it's hard to explain. Some people have misinterpreted it and still do. And, and not getting. If the government has any type of information about that that can clarify for them what's going on. That's where the frustration mostly comes from, I believe.

[Clint]

Yeah, there's just so many open questions here. Like, you know, for me, the, the whole idea that, that we've been knowingly misled by our own government for so many years is reason enough to want to find out who the fuck was behind all this. Like, what names are involved, what people were involved. You know, like, what was the justific. We hear whispers of these rumors that it's like, well, the situation is so bleak. If you actually knew, you would, you know, these guys are heroes. So I've heard this thing lately, and it's like this, it feels like a psyop to try and get people to buy into this other way of thinking. Now, particularly, Bigelow makes a really interesting case for blanket immunity in this interview he did with George Knapp recently. And I've got a clip here pulled up and I'll share this with you guys, take a look and then we'll come back and talk about it. But this is pretty interesting. Some of the way he describes the contractors, you would say, for sure, you know, that the government, our government, military intelligence agencies have recovered crash disks or materials or mechanisms, machinery, advanced machinery from somewhere else, and that we've handed that over to contractors to figure it out. Yes, yes, for sure.

[Bob Bigelow]

Yes, yes, I, I am, I am sure.

[Clint]

And you're right, your argument would be those are the guys who've been the gatekeepers and the secret keepers for the last 80 years because we asked them to do that.

[Bob Bigelow]

Yes.

[Bob Dean]

Yeah.

[Bob Bigelow]

And, and, and it's, it has behooved the companies to, to make progress. I mean, and you could say, well, if the companies, if it's revealed what companies have access to hardware, what's going to happen to the image of those companies or the stock value of those companies? I would be interested in buying More stock. Because if they have been that far advanced and whatever their value is isn't even based on this whole secret area of technology and they already have made progress.

[Clint]

You think they have made progress?

[Bob Bigelow]

I'm just saying if, if they've already made progress and if you're concerned that they're going to be somehow adversely affected by the stock market on what their company is worth, I would go buy stock because I think the opposite is going to happen. I think this becomes a country, a company of real interest in terms of, wow, they have a future that no other companies have. We are not exactly sure what that future is in these technologies, but now we, we know a whole lot more than we ever did before. And they, you know, so now these companies are more free to put more scientists at the front lines in these companies to reinvigorate of the staff that they currently have and more capital, more money.

[Clint]

Okay, stop right there. This sounds like a pitch. This sounds like a sales pitch. Like, hey, guys, wouldn't it be cool?

[Pavel]

Disgusting, bro. Disgusting. Sorry.

[Clint]

Wouldn't it be great if we already had the expertise we need? How cool would it be if we just let these guys just take the lead and now they don't have to. They could step out from behind their, their NDAs and they, they can start really, really making money. Like that's what this sounds like.

[Xander]

Well, he's talking about a situation in, in which these companies are allowed to admit that they have technology that is of grave concern to national security and fundamentally changes the landscape of, of the world economy. And he's talking about it as if they're allowed to keep hold of the proprietary knowledge here.

[Clint]

Yes, he's saying they are the best qualified people to keep it.

[Xander]

He's advocating for something that is against the principles of the way the US Government currently operates. Is supposed to operate, actually, I need to say, because obviously companies can be granted patents for things that they really shouldn't be able to patent. But you know, the US Government will come in and confiscate a technology that is. It will confiscate solar panels that are too efficient and that company cannot patent them. But a company that could patent free energy of any kind, like, okay, are we really. Is the US Government really going to allow that? And if so, why hasn't it already? Why isn't that, why aren't those companies that have this technology already monopolizing the energy systems with it? Because, and in my opinion, there is an answer to that, which is they simply can't. There is no way to reveal this technology, to admit to the US Government that they have this capability officially. Now I'm saying that I think there are people in the US Government that know this technology exists, but they cannot say it in any official capacity because then the US Government has to say, well, it's too powerful. You can't patent it. And therefore they will have to divest that technology back to the US under the. The act that.

[Jesse Michaels]

What?

[Xander]

I've forgotten the name of it. There is an act that is used frequently, every single year, hundreds of patents are confiscated under this act for being too powerful. This is the most powerful one. So there's no wonder to me, they haven't monetized it. There's no. The stock price is such an irrelevant. And the greatest of respect to Bigelow, the guy's a billionaire. I'm not about to tell a billionaire that he's wrong in a way, but I don't see how stock prices could benefit from this kind of revelation.

[Clint]

Well, I think that's the case he's making. See, if you imagine, just picture in your mind that he's not doing this just for him, although he will probably benefit because he owns one of the aerospace companies that stands to benefit from all this. But imagine he knows other people who are in positions like him who may be in those companies, and maybe they are like, hey, we are trapped too, because it is not real. We can't do much with the technology that we're sitting on, but we know a lot about it and we really could. We just need to change the situation. We need a small D disclosure that basically frees us up legally to start moving on some of this stuff. But we want to keep control of it. So we're not going to turn it over to, you know, universities, the university system or whatever the independent scientists will look at. It's going to be something that we keep here at Lockheed and it'll be a special deal that we just have with the, with the government, but it'll be an open secret. And I think that's what he's. That is. This sounds like the pitch like he's like going, listen to what he's saying. It's like we will blow the stock up. And imagine how much money you guys could make if you owned that stock. The people who are in control of the disclosure process, you know, this is how it would go down. This is what I was saying the whole time. I think that this is what it is. It's going to be the guys that are the gatekeepers Making a deal. And this is the kind of deal that you would see, it would be something like this. How do you get disclosure without actually giving up anything and make a shitload of money?

[Andy McGillin]

You don't get disclosure. You get confirmation. And myself and Xander had a very interesting back and forward and we disagree on a lot of this stuff. Okay. I, I'm, I don't think I'm more loose morally around how this might play out, but I think I'm more realistic than a lot of folks are that we might just have to swallow the fact that some people will have a massive advantage. This is something that's been talked about. This is what I disagree with, this being a pitch. I think he's just saying how it is. This is something Richard Dolan and Bryce Zabel, who famously co authored a book called After Disclosure that Bryce likes to mention. And it's a really good book. But this is, this kind of stuff is talked about, the whole idea. What happens after disclosure, you know, it will, in the boring stuff, your insurance will be infected, jobs will be affected, stock markets, banks, currencies, everything will be affected. What won't happen is all the stuff people over the decades, sorry, have thought would happen, that we're going to have flying cars and new ways to travel and new propulsion and new energy. None of that will happen for a long, long, long, long time, if at all. The energy thing, energy might change, but you will pay for it. You will pay a subscription, maybe for a small device that you plug in. Maybe someone come and wires your home, maybe it gets beamed from a satellite. Who knows, right? But I think some people just have to accept things will change. If you want the blue sky, all these bad people and all these big companies will be held accountable for what they have done and kept secret. I will be shocked if that happens. And I'm sorry if you think that way. You're probably better trying to think differently. Bigelow is just stating the facts here for me that some companies are going to have had access to this technology for a long time, that is going to give them a major leap and head start. Where can their stock go? Xander asked. Their stock can go through the roof.

[Clint]

Sure.

[Andy McGillin]

If your company A, that has had a flying saucer for 40 to 50 years and working on it, and your company B, who hasn't? And right now you're kind of neck and neck in terms of like industry leading. Company B's are relevant overnight if that comes out, because company A, whether they like it or not, is just leaps and bounds ahead of them.

[Bob Bigelow]

Right.

[Clint]

So that's just, that's what I. So real quick, what. All I'm saying is I agree with everything you just said. I'm just saying that he's. He's speaking in code. He's saying, hey, Congress people, if you're interested in this and you really want to make a shitload of money, let's

[Pavel]

just talk into the people as well, not just to the Congress, because we can buy stock. Yeah, like, you can just go, we

[Clint]

know who these companies are now, and

[Pavel]

you can buy stock if you want. We already know the names, you know,

[Andy McGillin]

so they can have these conversations off of podcasts, though. And this is the kind of thing, you know, when, like, Grush stood on the Hill and had his conversation and announcements and when Luna says what she says and when we have these hearings, I'm always hopeful that what's been said has already happened in the back rooms and the halls of government weeks or months before. Because if those conversations and revelations are just happening at that moment, then it's too late for them to have been said. When we find out, we should be the last ones realistically to know whether to be any real chance at progress and change in this topic. The same way when they come out and say, we've heard there's a UFO too big to move and Burleson's going to ask about locations. Burleson hopefully has done that months beforehand and we are now just hearing about it. You know, when you watch the Oceans 11 movies and Oceans 12 and Ocean's 13, and they talk you through the heist, but then you find out, actually the heist already happened yesterday. So the heist you've been trying to stop happening was. Was two days ago. That's what has to have happened for there to be any progress here. So, and regarding Xander made a really good point about, you know, how government should work. See, as and when this starts to come out, is there not arguments that governments will need to change how they work? Because the systems we have and how we work just doesn't. Doesn't comprehend and compute this.

[Xander]

So I guess the only thing I would say in response is I think your response is the way this is going to happen. Like, I fully believe that the way you. That the realistic approach is, is the best prediction we have. It's just aspirationally, if there is a time in history to really make a meaningful change, it's this moment. So I'm trying to talk in terms of the other end of the spectrum, not purely hyperbolically, but As I said, I think I said to you earlier in the week, it's something to strive for more than anything else. Like when this happens, if, if it happens in the way Bigelow describes here and stock prices remain relevant in the way that the technology

[Bob Dean]

just.

[Xander]

Yeah, bear with me a second. The technology, if it remains proprietary, that is a fundamental change in government because the technology they're describing here is highly advanced and stands to reason it will be a big change to the energy paradigm of the, of the world, depending on what's what, the scale of the power that we get. But if we say it's twice as good as nuclear, then it's world changing. But it could be anything from just a little bit better, it could be fusion all the way up to zero point energy, I don't know. But it's more about a conversation about what do we strive for? Do we. Is the win the fact that stock prices will go through the roof, or is the win that we could potentially eliminate poverty? And I would rather go for striving towards that. It will absolutely be incremental and very slow as a process. But there is also the danger that if we allow this technology to stay within these companies and patentable, then we get ushered into a cul de sac of absolute complete control where they have dominance over the energy of the entire planet and a legal document to back it up. That's the one thing I want to avoid more than anything else. I think I am going to say goodnight to my daughter, but food for thought.

[Andy McGillin]

Good night.

[Dylan Borland]

I think.

[Clint]

I think you guys are both saying more or less the same thing. And I think I am too. I just want to point out there is a presentation that was just shared by the Disclosure Foundation. This is on. Where is it here. Disclosure Forum 2026. Here it is. Technology.

[Jake Barber]

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[Clint]

Away from home in innovation, research industry and what comes next. Moderated by Mike Gold from NASA. And it says here, this is just the description. It's like Miller discusses Confronting unknowns program convened at MIT which brought together participants from the military intelligence community, aerospace, journalism, technology and other fields to examine how frontline operators make decisions under conditions of certainty. But how can research institutions, industry, investors, government turn unresolved UAP questions into credible technical programs, better instruments and practical innovation? Okay, that's what they're talking about at this forum. The Disclosure foundation is made up of. This is their board. Chris Mellon, Jordan Flowers, Anna Brady Estevez, Eric Davis, Tim Gallaudet, Mike Gold, Avi Loeb, Matthew Pines, Howard or Harold Put off. And Matthew Pines owns a company called Psy Inc. Which is physics accelerated by superintelligence. Basically designed. This whole company is based on the idea of just making superhuman progress on materials research by using superintelligence to do physics work. All of this stuff to me is happening because they know that this is a foregone conclusion. Like it's going to happen. We're going to be in a post disclosure world soon. We're already in that process. Carl Nell told us that. Carl Nell, 30 years at Lockheed Martin, all the Fortune 500 companies here, Bell, Lockheed, Task, CACI, Ensco, Northrop, they're the ones doing this. I think that's this is it, this is happening. And once it happens, once the transition happens, there's going to be a whole new field of research and an entirely new industry that's going to be built on this. It's like huge. And you're, what you're seeing, I think, is everybody involved in this process that has advanced knowledge of where this is going to go. And maybe in two years or five years, whatever time it is, they're getting their ducks in a row so that they are in position for that.

[Pavel]

Yeah.

[Clint]

So I think, I think that's, that's all I'm trying to say is like you just watch the business moves here. This is very out in the open at this point. And then just look at the players involved.

[Andy McGillin]

When I spoke to Danny Sheehan, we talked about how at this point in time there's, there's an old guard that is literally dying out who are at the heads of corporations that you know, guys who you. You may see their names now and again, you may not, who are 80 plus, 90 plus and their successors are all being lined up. And that can be academia, government, science, business, the corporate world, you know, the private aerospace world. And it's just this time where Danny believes, and I think it sounds fair enough that you have people ready to take those places. And when you have that kind of chaos and change, maybe that's what we're seeing, that. That jostling for position. And that means some stuff's going to go. Some stuff will be kept hidden and some stuff won't. And maybe we get some. And this is where I'll keep coming back to. If we can get a confirmation, that'll be huge progress. We're not going to get all this. A leap in technology, to be honest. Because right now you've got the US Naran situation. Take any number of them, right? The US don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon. Are we saying we're going to release or they will release technology to even the Western world that is this super mega advanced technology that is going to blow everyone's mind and they're going to start dishing this out commercially. So what if you can blow this stuff up and wipe out a city? You can't trust people or governments, it seems. And only certain countries and superpowers want everyone else to have certain things. So you're going to think they'll release a car that never needs any fuel in it. Or again, I know it's like a blue sky, but flying cars, we're going to get flying technology. What do you remember? 9, 11. So now everyone's got a car that can fly into whatever they want. No, we're not going to get this humanity civilization. Western society, as advanced as it is, is not ready or responsible enough for that. Let alone other societies that would want to come in and use that for all kinds of horrific means. So I almost the argument for the technology stuff being all of a sudden bang overnight.

[Clint]

I think it's not even that complicated. I don't think you have to go that far. I think you just have to go, look, the biggest problem in the world right now is energy. And solving it is going to make a lot of people a lot of money. And if you're sitting on technology that can solve the energy problem, it doesn't. You know, you don't have to give every secret away. You just have to be in control of that, of the patents and the technology and be able to have a deal with the government, where you can kind of make those. Those moves if you have to. But I think even more than, than that, more interesting is like, the question of, do we have contact with another advanced. We have ongoing contact with another advanced civilization that is not on this planet, or that is on this planet that is more advanced than us. Is that happening? I think, like, that's the only question I think is really that matters at this stage, is that I ask, yeah, what if?

[Andy McGillin]

What if then? And I'd love to know from all of you, Clint, because this is the kind of shit I like. Okay, yeah, if we get that, say in the coming weeks or months, we get confirmation, we get the statement from Trump, there is an NHI presence. It looks like we've got enough evidence of that. We're looking into it. But, yeah, that is real. And it's a kind of a new future ahead and that set for 10 years. What we literally live with that knowledge. That's all that changes. Why wouldn't that be realistic?

[Pavel]

Because more questions are gonna inevitably come in, and even from other, other superpowers, because after that is that statement is made, other countries are gonna go like, they already made the statement. How much do we want to disclose?

[Andy McGillin]

You know, I imagine the same.

[Pavel]

I don't. I don't think that once confirmation happens, it's all just going to go completely silent. I highly, highly doubt that happens.

[Clint]

If Trump opened that can of worms, then immediately in November, there's a congressional election that has to take place, then you're going to have the 2028 presidential election. There's no way that doesn't come up. That becomes immediately a core issue for the next forever, for whoever's the. The next president forever. That's going to be, what is our alien policy? What is our NHI policy? And even if it's not alien in the traditional sense, that we might think of the term this president or the next president, but some president soon is going to have to deal with a world that has some kind of super intelligence on it, and we're going to see that anyway. So it's like, if we can at least acknowledge that this is real and we can get past the question of, like, we may not address the issue of all the technology we have on standby and how advanced it is and what we know how to do and all of that. But if we know, look, there are four other advanced civilizations, we're in contact with two of them. The other two we don't have contact with, but the two that we do have Contact with one of them is neutral. One of them. They kind of like us, actually. It's interesting. I would. You know, that's.

[Jesse Michaels]

Wow.

[Clint]

If that's the only thing I learned for the rest of my life, I would at least be like, wow, we got that. We're not alone. Here's what they look like. Here's a video that we shot or some film that we shot at Holloman Air Force Base of this meeting taking place.

[Andy McGillin]

I don't know that much thing is that we get the whole.

[Pavel]

Even if it's just confirmation, bro, Even if it's just confirmation, I'm telling you, people who are experiencers, who are contactees, abductees, those are the ones that are going to come out. Okay, so you now confirmed them. So can you answer me this question, please? And. And it's a lot of people. It's not going to be quiet at all.

[Andy McGillin]

And there'll be a lot of liars and Griffiths. Let's use the G word. Because then you will get a lot of people making this up and a lot of people with mental health issues coming out and saying, I've been abducted. I've been this. And they haven't. I'm not saying that's all of them, but you will get a flood of people. How many celebrities right now, could you name that straight away would have podcasts talking about their abduction experiences? Just talking. I can see Katy Perry doing that. Like, you know, no offense, I feel like we should.

[Clint]

Xander, you have a prop today that you. You've put together for.

[Xander]

I have a prop. I don't know what context you want to use this prop in.

[Clint]

I think we should. Well, we're kind of building a list here of names and people and their positions in this whole thing. Should we get that out and start to.

[Xander]

Yeah, I guess the reason behind this is it's getting very complicated. As I said, a lot of people are starting to come out and say, this is what disclosure should look like, and. And things like that. And I know it's not black and white, but for the purposes of conversation, we have the. The disclosure board. We have a Camp A and a Camp B over here. And I should say as well, there's no good or bad side. It's not red versus blue. It's not good versus evil. But clearly, not everyone's gonna agree on how disclosure should be handled. So I thought I'd put this together, and we have a range of. I'll just put that down for a second. We have, for example, we have a number of people. We have a Bigelow right here. And we can put him in a camp if we want to. We can put him in category A or category B based on what we think they're really. The disclosure that they. That they think they should be. That should happen.

[Pavel]

So what is category A and Category B as in control?

[Xander]

Let's define it.

[Bob Dean]

Or.

[Xander]

I mean, I've just been commended for my use of duct tape. There it is. Based on Bigelow's interview. So let's. Let's use Bigelow as the standard for now.

[Clint]

So I have a clip, his heroes clip is pulled up and ready for you if you want to go to it.

[Pavel]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Xander]

Let's do that clip first, and then we'll go back and we'll talk through.

[Clint]

It'll make your point. Yeah, okay.

[Xander]

I think so.

[Clint]

Here we go. Bigelow.

[Andy McGillin]

Bigelow's channel is back up on YouTube also.

[Pavel]

I just saw that would laugh at that.

[Bob Bigelow]

Here we go. And so on. And the gatekeepers. I've. I've told people that there are heroes of a different kind. A lot of people would laugh at that. But it's true. It's true. They go to their graves taking information that they. Their spouses have never heard, their children have never heard. They can't talk about it to anybody, any friend. So they're isolated about that. And after a while, I think that must be a burden to hold those kinds of secrets. I remember I was talking to Sappho Henderson one time, and P. Py Henderson was her husband. And she said, well, we were in the grocery store one time, and he's. And there's an article in there in one of the magazines about. It's finally been revealed about ETS and aliens. And they're in the line, you know, getting their groceries, and he says, oh, my God, Sappy. He says, I can. I can. I guess it's out now. I can actually tell you what I've been doing all these years. He was one of the pilots of one of the cargo planes taking from Roswell in the. In the crash retrieval of. Of Roswell in 47. And so. And then she said to me, well, later, uh. And her daughter. Daughter was there too, as we were taught. She was relating the story. He had since passed away. But she said it was so funny because he said, I was. I wasn't supposed to know that because the article really wasn't an expose of a fact of truth.

[Clint]

It was like the Weekly World News.

[Bob Bigelow]

It was just a cover story.

[Clint]

Heroes of A different kind. There we go. Oh, sorry, sorry. That was Heroes of a different kind. Now that's.

[Xander]

That's good. It kind of mirrors sort of the sentiments that I got from this. From this interview. On the whole, I've written them down. But I should say as well, this is all done in sort of good fun and just trying to sort of get a lay of the landscape. Like, I really respect Bob Bigelow, and. And I don't think, like, he's bad or anything like that. And. And. But we're just trying to establish what people think it should happen. So I guess we could say we've got blanket immunity, legacy programs, quote, ain't so bad. That's basically the. The heroes comment. Bigelow has said before in. In a few ways. Soft disclosure. The way he recommended Trump stand at the steps of Air Force One and say, and deliver a very, very limited statement. That's a very soft disclosure. And technology stays proprietary, which I think this can change over time. But I think for now, that's what Bigelow said. Correct me if I'm wrong. That would. Let's just say that's a. We'll stick that up next to a. And we've got Mr. Bigelow, and we'll stick him right there. Yep, there we go. And it's begun, ladies and gents.

[Clint]

I wonder. Hey, by the way, I wonder if he said that he was like, just say it on your way into the plane.

[Pavel]

Right?

[Clint]

Turn around.

[Xander]

He did say that. That's the way. Because.

[Clint]

Well, I wonder if the reason he did that is. He's like, because. And the party didn't say is, I'm sitting on a shitload of this stock, and 5 seconds after you say that, I'm gonna be able to make a lot of money.

[Pavel]

That makes sense.

[Clint]

Think about it.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah, he wanted. He wanted him to see it. You know, when he stands at the curtain at Air Force One, he said he should do his little media Q A. And then literally, as he finishes, go, oh, and I've just got to tell you one more thing. Nhi, Craft and then buy. Close the curtain. That's what he said he should do. He did also say. And if you've not seen the full interview, Clint, he did. To be fair to Bigelow, he did say, I also gave Trump advice on another issue. He asked me during that meeting that was nothing to do with NHI, aliens, etc. Totally unrelated. So I'm guessing policy, tech, stocks, war, whatever, something he said. He did not take my advice because he has since acted or whatever. In a way, that is not what I said. So it's not a case of he's trying to say he told Trump to do something and Trump will definitely do it. He literally gave the example that I also advised him on something else and he chose not to take that advice. So I think that's something that's got to be said.

[Clint]

D nit says Bigelow has a wealth of knowledge. And that Bigelow podcast logo gives me hope that he is ready to share that knowledge. Am I right? Thanks for the super chat. Writ of habeas corpus says making a game of this was genius. What a segue.

[Xander]

We should segue to the sponsor.

[Clint]

Which sponsor?

[Andy McGillin]

As it segues.

[Clint]

The one Segway Scooter?

[Xander]

No, it's the. The lovely little bottles you've had.

[Clint]

Well, this isn't a full. It's not the full thing yet because we got a. This is just a quick shout out to our friends at Chattanooga Whiskey who sent us some of their. This is called Intergalactic Comet Crusher. Top secret eyes only. And we are waiting. We're gonna do an on camera tasting, but we're waiting for Xander to get his bottle and we don't have Dan here. So we were gonna do an official thing. We're just. We're waiting until that together.

[Bob Bigelow]

We will.

[Xander]

We'll drink it for the first time together.

[Clint]

But thanks to you guys for sending this.

[Pavel]

I'm already halfway through.

[Xander]

Guys, I can't wait.

[Pavel]

Chop chop.

[Xander]

I'm. I'm waiting for it to go through customs, I think. I don't know. That was the last I heard. But yeah, I've got to pay those taxes on those imports, those tariffs, those lovely Trump tariffs.

[Andy McGillin]

Clint, I just want. Can I ask permission to just mention a sponsor of mine really quickly?

[Clint]

Sure, of course.

[Andy McGillin]

Atlas of UFOs is a book I wrote if folks want to grab. If folks want to grab a copy. It's available on Amazon across the world and all good book resellers and you know, and I do sign copies too, if you want to email me and get a copy. But That's Atlas of UFOs.

[Dylan Borland]

Yeah.

[Andy McGillin]

If you don't have a copy, you're a bit of a loser, really.

[Xander]

So.

[Andy McGillin]

And it's really heavy. So that's. That's good for hunting folks that break into your homes in these testing times.

[Clint]

It's a good weapon.

[Pavel]

I've tried it.

[Andy McGillin]

Have you seen the movie the Purge?

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah.

[Bob Bigelow]

Yeah.

[Andy McGillin]

You know, when, like you, all crime is legal in the US for 24 hours. You know that's. That's coming. Clearly given the state the US Is in any minute. Really good for knocking someone out. Like you will knock someone right out with that book. So. Yeah. Thanks. Cheers. Atlas of UFOs.

[Xander]

It's a weapon. It's a weapon for the Purge.

[Andy McGillin]

You can weaponize. You can weaponize curiosity.

[Bob Dean]

Yep, there you go.

[Dylan Borland]

That's right.

[Pavel]

Okay, I forgot we had.

[Xander]

And that's for if you survive the Purge.

[Clint]

This holds my mic, my. My headphone cable out of the way so it doesn't interfere with my mouse. I just kind of put it off to the side.

[Andy McGillin]

Is that a replica of the Kingman UFO crash? Is it something like that?

[Clint]

That's the buga. The buga Plug. Butt plug. This is when we do an official contest. This is going to be the trophy. We're going to have like the gold, bronze, silver. We'll do these.

[Andy McGillin]

Thank God there's no scratch and sniff. Yeah.

[Xander]

Smell of vision.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah.

[Clint]

We should talk about the Dylan Borland, Jesse Michaels interview. Yeah, we haven't even gotten to that yet.

[Xander]

Yeah, we should.

[Clint]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Xander]

Go for it. And I think you haven't seen it yet.

[Clint]

I've only seen the clip that we're going to talk about. I was relying on you guys to fill me in on the rest. I think three and a half hour

[Pavel]

interview and I think it's safe to put both Dylan and Matt on the other side of the board.

[Xander]

Right, well, let's define that then. Let's. Let's watch some clips and define it for the time being. And again, this. This stuff can. I agree, I kind of. The sense that I get from Dylan is. And Matt is the. Let's rip the band aid off. Let's. Let's share some of the truths. Like right now they. I don't believe that you could characterize what they're saying as an advocacy for any sort of soft disclosure. Then again, I don't know what position they're coming from, so I don't know. Pavel, do you have any deeper thoughts than that?

[Pavel]

Well, I think that they're trying first and foremost to attack the crimes that were committed, according to both of them. And, and that has to do with, you know, at least a lot of truth not. Not being hidden, as I think that the secret keepers and gatekeepers would be keen on to cover the crimes, not get in trouble. And, and I completely get that there's a lot of people probably that committed crimes that are no longer alive because there was a lot of Stuff that was committed back in the 50s and 60s and 70s. But I think that there are still things happening right now that need to be addressed. And that's. That's the issue. That's what some of the other parts don't want. Because in a sense, I understand Bigelow's logic. I just don't agree with it. He's talking about they did it for the greater good, but not given any context as to what that greater good is. And also, I mean, these people live in a different reality than you guys and I do because we're, we're just normal civilians. These guys are in the highest spheres. They're billionaires. They deal with government all the time. They think differently. They have a different perspective of life and they just live in a different reality. We just don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. I think that that needs to be also highlighted. And I think that Dylan and Matt are also just regular people who were part of government and in lower positions and they saw some that they probably shouldn't have or.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Pavel]

And that changed everything for them. And, and that caused some of these crimes to be committed against them. So that's where they're at. And if that means ripping the band aid off or part of it, I mean, are those crimes going to go unanswered? I don't think that people are going to be happy about that.

[Xander]

I think one of the big phrases I heard Dylan say again and again in Jesse's interview is a little bit softer than sort of revenge. It's restitution. He used the word restitution more than anything else. So it's making right what was wrong. And that doesn't just mean punishing those that were. That have been up to no good, but it's also making whole the people. And he's speaking from a whistleblower's perspective. Both him and Matt have had their lives effectively ruined. And I heard the story about Dylan's. The, the clearance limbo that he's currently in as a result of bureaucracy is. Is insane because it means he can't get a job in what he's trained to do. That's insane. And it's. And it feels like anybody can really do that to another person under the current rules, which is kind of insane when you think about it. But it's just sort of like a legal loophole that they can use to attack people. They don't want to talk about this sort of stuff. So, yeah, I think the restitution argument is certainly on the other side of the whole these guys are heroes and blanket amnesty. Like, I don't think restitution is very compatible with that right now. And certainly pulling the band aid off is definitely not the same as the. As Trump saying a one line soft disclosure and not taking any questions. I think they are definitely very different. I don't know. What other sort of conclusions did you get from. From Dylan's interview in particular?

[Clint]

Well, there's this, this weird exchange about who's actually in charge of, of the whole situation, which I think is maybe worth mentioning. And we've got this clip pulled up here. Let me see if I can. Let's do. Hang on a second. I'm in the wrong tab.

[Xander]

Got somebody in the chat saying they don't need our amnesty.

[Clint]

Do you have audio?

[Xander]

I do not, no.

[Clint]

Hang on a second. All right, let me ditch out of this. Give me one second while I put this in another browser window. This is in Chrome, but it's giving me. Sorry, guys, Streamyard quirk.

[Bob Dean]

Yeah.

[Xander]

So, yeah, what about. Have you seen the interview yet, Andy?

[Andy McGillin]

Just clips of this one. Just clips.

[Jesse Michaels]

Right.

[Pavel]

I did see the whole thing, yeah.

[Dylan Borland]

Crashes have happened. It really seems like it's this directed energy plus nuclear thing. And so it's all kind of this

[Jake Barber]

episode sponsored by She's Bertie. Every woman knows that feeling. And She's Bertie knows it too. The just in case feeling. Just in case I hear something, just in case someone tries the door, just in case I need to wake up fast. It's not fear, it's awareness. And Birdie Box from She's Birdie was made for exactly that. Birdie Box is a portable travel door alarm designed by She's Bertie for hotels, dorms, Airbnbs and anywhere you're staying away from home. It installs in seconds on the door frame and if the door is opened, it activates a loud siren and flashing strobe to help draw attention instantly. She's. Because peace of mind should check in with you. Birdie Box by she's birdie visit she'sbirdie.com that's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-I-E.com and order your Birdie box before your next day away from home.

[Dylan Borland]

You know, concentrated in certain areas, but I think there are crashes outside of that as well. And like, so. So you get into this weird thing where it's like, are the. Is the non human intelligence in control of the COVID up too?

[Pavel]

That's it, that's it. That's It.

[Jesse Michaels]

Absolutely, yes.

[Dylan Borland]

Have you ever talked to anybody in a credible position in the government who seems to have hinted that humans aren't in charge?

[Jesse Michaels]

The ICIG did it. Personally, I. I want to respect them. The ICIG did it with me.

[Dylan Borland]

So the intelligence community inspector general told you that humans are not in charge?

[Jesse Michaels]

They extremely hinted at it, yes.

[Dylan Borland]

Holy.

[Clint]

A button of Jesse going. Holy.

[Pavel]

I think that was Thomas Mannheim. I think it was.

[Jesse Michaels]

They. They hinted at it, yes.

[Dylan Borland]

That is. That is insane. That's insane. And then. And then you think of the fact that, you know, Chuck McCullough is involved in this topic and really helping out on the whistleblower side. And he was the first intelligence community inspector general.

[Jesse Michaels]

Chuck is a beast. And I think we talked about this last night. You know, I have nothing but respect for everybody who gives a damn about our nation and who cares to serve it. God, family, country.

[Dylan Borland]

Dude, that is wild. That the intelligence community inspector general and this role is basically the judiciary for the Intelligence Committee. Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

Keep in mind. Yeah, that's the IC, not the CIA, not the OA. Okay. Remember, those are separate IGs, just like the DoD IG is separate. So.

[Clint]

Okay, we'll stop there.

[Pavel]

No, no, no, no.

[Clint]

You gotta keep going.

[Pavel]

There's a part.

[Dylan Borland]

What would the eyes. Hypotheticals be privy to that might allow them to say with authority that humans aren't in charge of the government?

[Jesse Michaels]

I. Again, I want to be very careful and very respectful. This goes back. If you listen to the weapon. See, again, I'm Jeremy and George and I and Matt, all of us, all of us have said things and laid groundwork for years to come because we have no idea we could die tomorrow. So we're all trying to get this out and have a baseline and be respectful and not go crazy like I'm partying with aliens in Washington D.C. crap. What I said and weaponized was you can tell somebody knows something based on the questions they ask you. You respond, and the next question they ask you is very telling. So hypothetically, Jesse, let's say. Let's say you asked me a question and I say, yeah, I've seen gray beings, traditional grays. If I said that to you, your next question is be like, when? Where? How? Hypothetically speaking. Let's say I say that. And your next question is, well, where did they come from? And then I respond, well, you know, I don't have an answer. I think they've been here a long time. And the very next statement is, well, who do you think is running the show? Hypothetically, let's Say that happened.

[Pavel]

That's wild.

[Dylan Borland]

That is so crazy. And it's especially crazy given that, you know, David Grush gave them all sorts of documentation from his experience on the UAP task force, where he looked comprehensively with 40 witnesses.

[Jesse Michaels]

Let's. Let's be clear. Day brought 40 witnesses who were on the program. And Matt and I were not a part of that. Lou was not a part of that. To the best of my knowledge. Stratton, McCaskey, this whole list.

[Dylan Borland]

And they called his. His complaint urgent. Incredible.

[Jesse Michaels]

They did.

[Dylan Borland]

And so they're calling his complaint urgent. Incredible. They're telling. Hypothetically, they're saying, who do you think is running the show? Which is wild. This brings me to another question.

[Clint]

You're okay? Yeah, let's stop there.

[Pavel]

Yeah, that's.

[Andy McGillin]

That's a big, insane. That was.

[Clint]

That's a spicy meatball. What does that even mean, though? They're in charge.

[Xander]

Did I miss a statement at the end there? Something about that is just them being in charge. Right?

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah.

[Clint]

I mean, that was basically the whole exchange.

[Pavel]

He said that the ICIG essentially hinted heavily at that. That he says, who do you think is running the show? That was his statement.

[Clint]

What does run the show mean? What does that even mean?

[Pavel]

Simulation? I don't know.

[Clint]

Run the show.

[Andy McGillin]

That. That could literally be that. Again, the.

[Clint]

The old.

[Andy McGillin]

And I've said this many times, the worst Marvel movie is the Eternals. But the idea that you've got this seven. They've got these, like, supreme beings, slash godlike entities who are there through humanity, century after century, watching, guiding now and again, giving you a little push in the right direction. Maybe as one civilization rises, another falls. They are there to. There are some fire. There's a different type of aluminium alloy to make a weapon. They just nudge you along the way. There's fiber optics, whatever it may be that could be. They're in charge. They make the rules. They decide how this goes. They're giving us. Maybe they gave us AI at some point decades ago, maybe they gifted AI. And now we see it commercially because it's clearly been used for a long time before that. So it could mean that. I think people taking it literally, that these beings are some kind of shadow government running the planet. I don't think that's what he means. As wild and crazy as Jesse likes

[Clint]

to say it is, I. I get something going. I take it from David Jacobs stuff, though, like, right, that. That maps on to some of the stuff David Jacobs was saying and Bud Hopkins and even John Mack to a certain degree like abductees frequently reported seeing hybrids or some partially human looking, sometimes fully human looking beings on board craft. It's not. There is a precedent for that, that there is some kind of a program, there's some kind of a genetic engineering program and some type of a hybridization program. And Jacobs went so far as to speculate that these hybrids were embedded in our society doing something or waiting to be triggered or activated to do something. And they knew this just from hundreds and hundreds of cases that they had looked at. So it doesn't seem impossible for me to, you know, I could, I can connect those dots. I could say, well, you know, why were the grays always seen as part of the hybrid hybridization program? It's always with grays. Grays are always involved in some way. Are they making hybrids? And then do they have people embedded in our, you know, this is what the Supreme. What is it? Supreme Headquarters, Allies, Allied Expeditionary Force, whatever it was, Shafe Headquart, the report that they had in the 60s said there were beings that looked just like us.

[Andy McGillin]

There's a lot of different commentary there though, from different areas of people involved in the topic and levels of research that I think would be granted different levels of credibility. What I find interesting is tying some of those conversations and what Dylan Borland said there into this idea that a lot of this comes in cycles and that they can either predict these cycles are going to happen. I said, well, I can't remember what I read today, but around that they knew the cycles in 1948 were coming and those the flaps can last X amount of years. Is there then a chance that going back to the drone flaps from a couple of years ago that again folks, they did not start in the United States. They started in the UK on Air Force bases. Xander, you can back me up on that one. Yeah, those drone flaps started in the uk, happened for quite a while and then it started happening in the United States and carried on there for longer. So for me, is there something to cycles, patterns repeating and that we are just now in a time where we are seeing more, we're hearing more, we're getting more and a group within the IC private aerospace know this is the time to try and get this to come out. Because if we don't do it, maybe now, next year, the year after perhaps it's not an end of the world scenario, it's just a case of this will go quiet again until 2040, 2045, 2056. That could be the case. And it's more. It's More opportunistic that they're doing what they're doing now, not because of a doomsday scenario coming down the line. I think a lot of that talk, and it's. And, and Elizondo said it quite a lot, something's coming. I think that's nonsense. And I know various folks have disagreed with him on that and others who have said it. I think it's sensationalism for sensationalism sake and clicks and whatever in engagement which he accused Gerba of, let's be fair. And that's just my opinion. I think what happens is more likely is there are patterns and cycles to this. We are in one right now. That's perhaps what some of the drone stuff was. That's what a lot of the. Maybe the Nemet's Princeton stuff was the start of it. Who knows? And here we are now still seeing stuff, and it's just an opportunistic time.

[Pavel]

We can also look at it from a different perspective because people like John Keel have been writing about this for a long time. They're. There are many lectures of them online that talk about this, that UFOs are more prevalent when there's peril in the world, when there's like economic peril, war, famine, disease, all that stuff. And that it happens also in intervals. And it has been happening for a long, long time. So right now, look at the state of the world and sightings have increased quite prominently in the 70s. That was a huge decade for, for. And look at the state of the world back then. There were nuclear weapons being detonated for a long time. You know, like it was obvious that there were going to be sightings like that. So I think that it, it, yeah, there, there is a good opportunity now, but I don't think that sightings are going to stop in any way and contact experiences and all that, you know,

[Andy McGillin]

but it could change. Imagine you were an nhi. Imagine you were another species coming to this planet and you want to study Christmas, but you don't quite know what it is, but you know that a certain time all these lights go up, things change, the weather changes and you're trying to study why this is what's happening. Look at these lights. Look at the way these people react, behave. Their whole society changes. That would be so weird. Everything looks different, there's a different feel, but then it goes away. And you'd be looking in February, March, April, May. Where the hell is this Christmas thing? They're all behaving differently. They're not talking about this guy, this God These presents, these lights, the decorations aren't there, the society's changed. And then all of a sudden again, 12 months later, 11 months later, it starts back up. It's just a new cycle. Another chance to study, another chance to watch, to research, and you learn a little bit more. So maybe each time these flaps and cycles happen, we learn more, we get more knowledge. And I totally agree, Pavel. They don't stop, but they change, they slow down, a new phase happens, they learn more, they need something else or something different happens.

[Xander]

Something we've talked about quite a lot on this show in particular is whether or not it cycles. I don't know, but it's certainly seems to be milestones at the very least. So like important things that happen. So the, literally the detonation of the nuclear bomb was Roswell. Like it's the same time and you know, nuclear malmstrom and stuff, plenty of incursions over nuclear sites. And now all of a sudden we're sort of dabbling with, with AI. And every single week it seems like there's a new company saying, oh yeah, RAI accidentally hacked a bunch of companies by accident. We didn't know it did it until months afterwards, it seems like, oh, and the guy from somebody just recently testified that somebody from the NSA, the person that ran the NSA's cyber warfare unit or whatever, had said to him that the NSA had done one of these tests on, with using an AI. They created this system. It basically it was a carbon copy of the NSA's entire security infrastructure. They let an AI loose in it and it got through all of their security within hours, not, not weeks. That was part of his phrasing, was that this didn't take weeks, this took this AI hours. And we haven't unlocked AGI yet. So I'm thinking like, yeah, sure, there are these milestones, but what's the last milestone? Because it seems to me like we are very close to inventing the last invention. And once we've invented that, like, how many more milestones do NHI need before they have to intervene? Because there's no way we're keeping control of this invention. Not it might do what we say, but it will become so readily available across the world that it will do what everyone says and that's the real danger.

[Andy McGillin]

And yeah, if AGI becomes the dominant intelligence on the planet, then an NHI potentially just watches and observes that because, okay, we are done. We are, we are now the, the monkeys, the whales and the dolphins. So yeah, be the next phase for them.

[Clint]

I think that's what's going on. I think that's a big part of it. They're not interested. It's not so much us that they're concerned about. It's what we're about to give rise to. It's the next thing that's going to be moving at exponential speeds. It's going to be getting, you know, orders of magnitude more advanced by the minute. Like what you just said, Xander. I realized that anthropic OpenAI meta every frontier lab that produces AI, all of their frontier models, every one of them has escaped and hacked into a bunch of shit. They can't release anything more powerful than they at this stage, anything they make that is more powerful than what we already have is just going to be better at doing that.

[Pavel]

Yeah.

[Xander]

And if you're wondering why the time may well be now that some form of soft disclosure has to happen is because legacy programs weren't. I know they've been updated over the years, security wise, dramatically, but they weren't set up to deal with this kind of threat. The, the idea that doesn't. If, if you've ever put anything in the wrong place on the Internet by accident, an AI is going to find it. And over, over the last 80 years, do you think no information has been misplaced? Do you think there even the immaculate Constellation document, if we truly believe it's sort of a mislabeled slideshow. Imagine that that was a human found that. Imagine an AI with access to the entire Internet that is able to make connections that no human could ever make in 100 lifetime and it could do it in an afternoon. It may well solve the whole show without legacy programs involvement, make it publicly available and then all of a sudden you've got catastrophic disclosure. So the flip side of that is get out ahead of it, try and secure your future now, which includes things like amnesty, which includes things like how do we secure our ownership of this technology? And again, I'm not saying this is anything nefarious from Bigelow's part, but he's certainly echoing the sentiments that a legacy program would echo in the event that something like that happened.

[Pavel]

I mean, he's part of them. He's in aerospace too. Like he's one of those CEOs.

[Clint]

His company makes inflatable space habitats like that's what they do. Like he stands to benefit from material science that is being locked up in these programs that could make the shit that he makes so much more effective, more profitable. Not just him, but all of these guys. I mean, listen, Amy Eskridge Whatever you think about that case, the one thing that was. Of all the things that she talked about, the Institute for Advanced. What was that? Institute for Advanced Technology. The group that she started, their whole function was to take the research and anti gravity technology that was being discarded by NASA and commercialize it it under private investment. That's what they were there to do. And she raised millions of dollars in startup capital to get this organization off the ground. What if what you're looking at is just the groups that already sit on that information making the determination, as you said, Xander, that this is the time it's going to happen sooner or later. We may as well be ahead of it and ride the wave. And if we do it right, then, you know, we all come out way ahead. My concern with the way that the conversation has shifted recently is that it's gotten a lot more vague than it used to be. It used to be really like lately this, and particularly out of people like Lou, the vagueness of the information is what's so alarming. It's like, well, we don't really know five observables, lights in the sky, yada yada, sometimes there's some medical effects, not really sure. Now we, we have a clip here I want to show of one of my favorite UFO researchers, Bob Dean, on the UFO AZ legendary cable access TV show. And in this clip he talks about a report that came out in 1966 that they had access to in NATO. And listen to the detail that he describes. Okay, so what was the conclusion of the assessment? UFOs are just totally bogus or. No, this sound is awful. I'm sorry guys, this is just what it is. There was something really going on here.

[Bob Dean]

As I said, it changed my life. Let me give you a little brief background on the conclusions. The study itself was approximately an inch and a half thick, but it was supported by 6 to 8 inches of annexes. There was this much material available that backed it up and included studies, analysis, photographs. It was an amazing piece of work. I was impressed by it. I had been involved in work of this kind before, but this was one of the most complete comprehensive studies I have ever seen. During the three years of the study, they had farmed bits and pieces of this out to some of the top people in the world. They had an annex on history, and I'm talking about ancient history. The history of the UFO phenomenon goes back a long, long time. There were annexes on atmospheric physics. There were atmospheric annexes on psychological impact and studies. There was an annex on the theological implications of this study, which was one of the most interesting to me, the fact that the implications for the human race are mind boggling. But when the thing finally came out, there were about four major conclusions.

[Jake Barber]

This episode sponsored by She's Bertie. Every woman knows that feeling, and she's Bertie knows it too. The just in case feeling. Just in case I hear something, just in case someone tries the door, just in case I need to wake up fast. It's not fear, it's awareness. And Birdie Box from She's Birdie was made for exactly that. Birdie Box is a portable travel door alarm designed by She's Bertie for hotels, dorms, Airbnbs and anywhere you're staying away from home. It installs in seconds on the doorframe, and if the door is opened, it activates a loud siren and flashing strobe to help draw attention instantly. She's Birdie because peace of mind should check in with you. Birdie Box by sheez birdie visit she'sbirdy.com that's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-I-E.com and order your Birdie box before your next Stay away from home.

[Bob Dean]

And I'll try to remember these if I can. The first one was that the human race and the planet Earth has been under an extensive detailed survey and analysis by several extraterrestrial civilizations for a very long time. Now, that is a mind grabber in itself. The conclusion reached this study that this has gone on for not only hundreds of years, but perhaps thousands of years. And remember I said several extraterrestrial high technology civilizations. The conclusion stated that there appeared to be some kind of a program or a process taking place, developing. We had studied it for a long time, we looked at it in great detail and it was very apparent to the experts that something was happening here that was a planned developing kind of process. Now, where that was going to lead and what the eventual outcome would be, they didn't know. But we're dealing with extremely advanced, high technology extraterrestrial civilizations. There were two other major conclusions of are kind of interesting. One is that they concluded that there was no military threat involved, which was the primary reason the study was established.

[Clint]

It was a military study to begin with.

[Bob Dean]

Exactly. They concluded that there was no military threat involved because if there had been, would have all been over. The degree of technology that was demonstrated was so far beyond anything we had that if there had been malevolence or hostility would have all been over. So they concluded there was not A military threat. And the other piece that intrigued me is that there were four separate groups involved in this survey. And the exciting part of it that I've never been able to walk away from, and the generals themselves were very upset about this, is that one of the four civilizations looked exactly like we do. That means that they could put on a coat and a tie or a dress sweater and sit next to you in an airplane or in a restaurant and you will never know the difference.

[Clint]

Or even more disturbing. Okay, sorry, that was a long one. But Bob Dean is awesome. I mean, the turtleneck, the medallion, the whole thing. And this Eyepatch guy, I don't know what his story is, but it's awesome.

[Pavel]

Poppy. Just kidding.

[Clint]

NATO commissioned this study back in the 60s. When he saw it, it was 8 inches thick. It was packed with details, had 6 inches of annexes with 2 inch report on top of it. They had photographs, they had everything, they included all of these different things. They tracked them all over NATO airspace. And then at the end they go one. We know of at least four races, which is what Eric Davis repeated recently. And one of them looks just like us, which is something Bob Bigelow said, not too many, two, three years ago in an interview that he did on 60 Minutes Australia. I'm saying that the story they're giving us now is really intentionally vague and it's like all over the place. There's no real answer to it. But we know there's more information to be discussed here, way more detail. And I feel concerned that we're getting away from that. That's where when Grush says, we've got bodies, we've got craft, we've got. I know the addresses and the names, that's what gets my attention. And I just wonder what you guys think of this. It seems like, you know, 30, 40 years ago we had a whole lot more of a grasp on, on the situation compared to what they're telling us.

[Andy McGillin]

30 or 40 years ago it was quieter. There were no social medias. You didn't hear everyone's opinion. What is destroying society is everyone has a voice and opinion. And I understand the irony of me sitting here like a prick with a microphone saying that, right? But look, how many people do you know, privately and personally, who you think you should not be on social media because you're a idiot. And that's what we have now, where there are some really good people, but there are some idiots on social media. So everyone's got a voice, everyone's got an opinion, and it's Like a flooded information zone now. So so much of what's being said I can understand when people who listen to or watch my show that will be the same as you guys that they get in touch and say I'm 50, 60, 70 years old. So much of what I'm hearing now I heard back then but everyone's just repeating the same stuff. And then you've got all these people coming out saying but I've heard this, I've heard that the 4chan stuff, the LARP stuff. So you've just got a really confused noise to signal ratio and that's what happens. So I don't think it's less. I don't see that gatekeepers or secret keepers have to flood the. The UFO community. 100 Pavel people already do it. They bullshit and argue and beef. I mean folks say all this arguing, the, the disinformation and psyop guys. No it's not. It's just people being people and human nature taking over and everyone having to have their say. That's the problem.

[Clint]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that they can also be true that we have. We know a lot more than they're letting on. I think we all agree that they know a lot more than they're going to ever tell us. Right? I mean that's kind of, that's. That's fair. So how deep does that knowledge go? And at what point do we stop learning new things? Like do you. If he's, if he's, if he citing and I, you know this is Robert Dean's testimony here. I don't, I don't. I haven't seen this report. He says there were like 10 copies that were made. I know. I talked to Richard Dolan about him. He is a huge fan too. We both love Bob Dean. So for whatever that's worth. But he said this report was commissioned by NATO. They made a certain number of copies. That was it. He got to see one of the copies and in this. They had all of this information. You've got Beatrice Villarelle saying she has the photographic evidence from the plates that there were non human technosignatures in orbit before Sputnik. We've got all kinds of shenanigans that were done with the photographic plates and to kind of muddy the waters on what was going on there at that particular time. And it just seems like there's been a thread of this story that is so deeply embedded here and goes so far back that it has to be they've known about this for a lot longer than they've let on. We probably have a lot more information than they'll ever tell us. And we can still bullshit ourselves about what exactly they know. But I think it's safe to say that they know at least a certain number of these. Of these NHI exist and are doing something here. That's. Is it 4? Is it 40? I don't know.

[Bob Bigelow]

Know.

[Clint]

It's not just 1.

[Xander]

I think there's to perhaps get maybe a little bit too philosophical at this point. There is a secret behind a door somewhere. Right. And it's quite possible that nobody knows that what that secret is in its totality. But they may have all different agencies and different facets of. Of government and private enterprise may have had peaks behind the door. But it seems to me there are advocates for the people that want the world to continue. As in we're talking stock prices. Life changes from what it currently is. And then you've got the way Bob Dean talks. I mean I could listen to that. I wish he would. I want him at the Dreamland Motel. I could listen to him for eight hours and sleep very well. Like that is quite clearly a man that wants the world to stop. Over at Doom 11, we went to 11.

[Clint]

Whoa, that was loud.

[Xander]

Yeah. The way Bob Dean talks. He talks as if he wants the world to stop. And in a way so in. I'm sorry, Dylan. Probably not quite so as eloquently saying we want to rip the band aid off is kind of a similar statement. Both could most likely gonna be painful for a moment. But it's what comes after that that has the potential to be so much more than the world changing more incrementally and in a more controlled fashion. Perhaps the world stopping is more dangerous. I'll absolutely ADM admit that. But it's just wondering whether or not or not the end of that. The roads are different.

[Pavel]

It's way more dangerous. Like you just have to see what happens right after an earthquake in. In any. In any town. Like in. In Chile. When it happened back in 09, I think it was. There was a huge earthquake there. And I. I like a content creator. Herman Carmenda, it's his name. He talked about how they had to like be outside in a. In a fire taking care of the neighborhood because there were always people coming in and trying to steal stuff. Rape women, all that stuff, you know?

[Bob Bigelow]

Yeah.

[Pavel]

And. And it's like imagine that with macro. If the world stops, that's what happened.

[Xander]

The reality is I don't know what lies behind the door. So it might be the case that the truth is actually a bit more mundane. We've been exposed to all of the rhetoric of ufology over the last, that's accumulated over the last 80 years. So like we, we talk about everything on this channel, including interdimensional beings and time travelers and stuff. And the reality is it's probably not at quite as complicated as that or it might be exactly as complicated in that and completely, completely incomprehensible. But yeah, catastrophic disclosure is probably more dangerous in the short term, providing there isn't some sort of cataclysm on the way that we don't know about, in which case it doesn't matter. They may as well just keep us in the dark.

[Clint]

Anyway, I, I, so that, that is the other rumor, right? This is, I just put this Time magazine cover up just so people can see this is again going mainstream. I think, I think we're there. But yeah, I've heard this rumor recently. Well, I've been hearing it for a while, but more in, I've heard it pick up steam recently that the, the cataclysm is what? That's the problem. Let's say that you knew that the cat, there was going to be a world ending cataclysm in 10 years or in X years from now. If you tell people today, then for the next decade it's chaos. Everybody's just going to lose their shit because they'll be counting down the days. But if you let them live in ignorance until the end, then maybe for a few hours on the last day it'll be chaos, but then it'll all be over. I've heard that. And there's a part of me that's kind of, oh, I could see that if that were the real thing, if that were the news and they said that's indigestible. How do you digest that?

[Xander]

Yeah, this is the big problem is we don't know what lies behind the door. And if somebody like Bigelow does know, and he's the one that's calling them heroes and I respect Bigelow, maybe it's worth listening to him. This is why, this is why this board isn't so cut and dry. It's why there isn't one side better than the other because we don't know what lies behind either one of these paths that we might end up choosing. So that's why it's such an interesting conversation. But the I'm still of the camp of I believe we have a right to know, like Even if those fundamental truths are really painful, we deserve the right to know particularly truths.

[Clint]

If you live near any major city, you live under the umbrella of potential nuclear annihilation every single minute of your life, right? Like there are nuclear weapons pointed at your head basically every day. And this is just the way that we live. And it's like we consider that normal. Is anything they're going to tell us going to be scarier than that? I mean, really.

[Xander]

I don't know.

[Clint]

I don't. I just. I feel like. Like I don't want other people making that decision. I just. I guess that's. For me, that's what really disclosure boils down to. It's like, do you want someone else deciding for you the how the outcome of the most important questions there are. Do you want them to just control that information? Are you okay living in a world, or do you want to live in a world where, at least on paper, civilians control our government and the government is looking out for the best interests of the people and trying to inform us and help us make good decisions? It's an aspirational thing. I know that's, that's far from where we actually are, but I think that's part of it is like we're, we're as, as a, as a group of people in the UFO community. I agree with what you're saying, Andy. We do. We talk a lot of shit and no one really knows. And so it's a big noisy area. But what is exciting about it is that it is an interesting area and it's exciting and people are talking and that is, that's how this works. Like, like now we do have the Internet, so there is this exchange of ideas and we're all discussing it. It's becoming more well known and that's how you get it on the COVID of Time magazine. And, you know, all of these things that have been happening, it takes both. It takes that. That groundswell of support, you know, to make people like Dylan and Matthew and bring their story out so that other people can understand what they're going through. Is there a way to do both? Can you have disclosure and then just disclose with, with an understanding of, like, this is why we had to do it the way that we did it. You know, we. We did a bunch of crazy shit. But the reason why is because if we didn't, something's going to happen. And when they get here in 25 years, we have that much time to be prepared. So we've got to figure out how to up our technology by a factor of ten in two and a half decades, or we all die.

[Xander]

It could be the case that one of these agreements would. Could be the fact that maybe NHI were the ones. And Dylan himself said that he was told that. What, you think we're the ones making the decisions? Like, what if part of this, some sort of agreement is that the people that do know aren't allowed to tell anyone? And that's coming from nhi, in which case Bigelow's right. Maybe they are heroes. Maybe they do deserve blanket immunity. Because if, if killing, if. If murdering whistleblowers stops the rest of humanity from being extinguished because it's not allowed to know the truth, then that is a very gray area. I think it's not a nice place to be.

[Andy McGillin]

And yeah, yeah, I've been making notes, right. On a few things that have been said. So regarding the cataclysm stuff, right. For me, you can look at it like there's something coming, etc. Etc. Or it's just a way to appeal to the religious aspect of this, which is very. Angels, demons, etc. When they hear cataclysm, Armageddon, it gets their attention. So for me, I don't see there's any impending cataclysm. I don't agree with the whole. Aliens have a calendar that is circled for November 18, 2027, and they are flying here at a speed that lets them arrive on that date. So we all know Pavel, so we

[Pavel]

just have to keep in mind a little somebody called Carl Nell, right? Because there's stuff that he's done that I've reported on that is still needs to be discussed. What he was really doing when he was showing those slides to a congressperson. Lou was there. The person that I think leaked that information was Ivan Hannell, Lou's lawyer, because there was a moment between him and Carl Nell there where they even nearly got into a fistfight and they had to separate them. And he saw something in those slides that Carl Nell was showing that got him really spooked. And he is denying the whole thing. He has denied the whole thing after it happened. But I've seen screenshots of what he told people right after it happened. The guy was really spooked about whatever he saw. And I got different corroborations that Carnell was doing that, so. And that this slideshow is not the public ones that he's been doing and presentations and like archives of the impossible and soul and all that. This is different. So I don't know if that was just like a threat assessment of potentialities or something like that. But it's not being talked about, man. That's the problem. And whenever it's discussed it's gaslit. And it's just like. That's why I think most people, you, you and I included Andy think it's. But the fact of the matter is that he did show that slides slideshow to people and he's not talking about it. Why is he not talking about it?

[Andy McGillin]

So I'll. I've got a few points right, and that's fine. That doesn't mean it wasn't think tanked out. It doesn't mean it's not just like a war game scenario. It doesn't mean it's just not, you know, a rough guide. Again, I really struggle with anything with dates attached to it, regardless of years, etc. Etc. Again, that can be a gender driven, narrative driven. That's, that's all very possible, especially with these presentations and really, really maybe just odd way of thinking about it, but if I'm these guys and I know all this stuff's coming, the cataclysms, the, the alien invasion, Independence Day style, am I really writing books and waiting on dops and approving them and then falling out over a documentary being released or not? Or do I not give a shit because everything ends in a couple of years? I'd probably guess the latter because I'm caring about agents, money and entertainment. So that again, for me probably shows that we're not on a world ending course.

[Pavel]

That's a good point.

[Andy McGillin]

That's a good point. So regarding this, the, the Bob Dean stuff, really interesting. What a head of hair that man had. Clint.

[Clint]

But the other guy with the eye patch, what is that? What's going. He's got a mullet and an eye patch.

[Andy McGillin]

Like nothing says 70s like more than that setting, does it? But you know when they say it was four in the 70s and you hear about this huge manifesto or you know, report that was made, Perhaps we did. Or they learned more from the 40s or 70s, sorry. Maybe they had the idea that there was an NHI coming from somewhere else. By the 70s they knew there were four species. Maybe in the 90s or 80s or 2000s they went, actually one of them's not an NHI and we don't quite know how to categorize it. Maybe then they find out something's under the water, something's already here and things have changed. So there's always a chance that, yeah, the conversation repeats itself through the Decades. But maybe it repeats with new information or corrected information as part of that as well. Because we always hear that perhaps was Eric Davis and others have said that they work on some of this stuff and then it goes away, sometimes for years at a time because they wait on our technology catching up to pull it back out, work on it and tinker with the engine again. Perhaps that would make sense to me. And finally, to your point around, would you want other people making decisions for you, society, all that kind of stuff? That's fair enough. And this is conversation that was getting so hot. Xander's system has totally failed on him.

[Clint]

Too hot for TV.

[Andy McGillin]

Too hot to handle Jerry Springer. 90 minutes, 10 minutes. Bonus footage.

[Clint]

By the way, not. Not to jump in the middle of your. Of your comment there, Andy, but you. We do have Dylan Borland in the chat. Dylan, buddy, if you're here and you. You care to join us, I already

[Pavel]

sent him a link. See if he joins.

[Clint]

Please consider it. Anyway, sorry, go on. India.

[Xander]

No, no.

[Andy McGillin]

So ultimately, you don't know if you want that decided for you or not. You can say you do, but you don't know. And this is me, you, Clint, Pavel, anyone in the chat you don't know because we don't know if they found out. Clint, we are parents. If you found out that your child on a nightly basis was being abducted subconsciously by an NHI and you could do nothing about it, would you perhaps actually want to know that's happening? Or would you be better knowing it doesn't happen because he doesn't remember either afterwards? You know, you. You don't.

[Clint]

Sure, sure. No, I. I understand the spirit of what you're saying. I. I'm saying that there might be a middle ground, though, where, where it's like, look, we don't tell people that. We don't tell them the Freddy Krueger thing. We tell them Roswell. Y' all know about Roswell. And you know, there are people. There were bodies on board. Those bodies were wearing clothes. Those clothes were made somewhere. They came from somewhere. They had tools and shit on board. They have equipment, you know, and that's not the only craft. We have a dozen or so, depending on who you talk to, different types of craft. If you listen to Bob Lazar, four or five different types. The jello mold and the sport model and then the, you know, the arrowhead. All these different types. So, like, you could say to people as. As Bigelow suggested, you could say, look, we have. We have contact or we've made contact, or we have made some kind of discovery. And we, we know these, these, these beings exist. We know that there are four different types or two or ten, whatever it is. And, and we are researching it, we're working on it. You know, you can give some answers without scaring the absolute shit out of people 100%.

[Andy McGillin]

You go, my last thing on it, you go for confirmation, which is what I've kept saying, which is, we believe there is something interacting with us. We are looking at it, we are working with different departments. It's almost like playing stupid and playing along. We're going to work this out with you, the public, as we go along. And I've said this before, on this show and others, Clint, you use the James Webb. You find something really far away. You say, we've found something really far away, but we can't get there in the next 25,000 years. It opens up the conversation to bit by bit. If something's out there, something might be closer. If something's closer, it means something's here. If something can get here, it means something might be here already. And that just slowly opens up the tap. When you put your tap on too fast, the water splashes everywhere and makes a mess. You put a little bit of water in the sink first, then open the tap, it fills much more nicely and doesn't make a massive mess. That's confirmation. That's your slow drip disclosure. And it still gives us sooner than later the idea we are not alone and lets us build off the back of that. That's how it goes for me. And the big one for me as well, Clint, along with the whole being abducted thing, imagine part of the secret was the whole afterlife thing comes along with it, full disclosure, like Xander was talking about earlier. Imagine as part of that, they go, okay, there is a soul. Souls can be harvested. Souls can go to source, back to source afterwards. What happens to the. I wouldn't, I'll protect the YouTube algorithm here. What happens to the unaliving rates overnight when you find out this is Super Mario World and you get infinite resets?

[Clint]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pavel]

We've talked about this, Andy. Remember?

[Bob Dean]

Yep.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah, we have.

[Clint]

So, like, but that, that might be one aspect that you leave out. You know, I mean, I, I think I, I, it sounds like what you're saying is, look, you, you have, you have to give people an on ramp. And that on ramp is going to take 25 years. It's going to take a generation. You're going to have to have a whole new generation of kids that are born and Grow up in a world where this is like unknown thing and we're looking at it and maybe you can give little nuggets of things that we already know. But let's say we have 60 plus years of dedicated research locked up in all these SAPs, right? And some of them understand the language that these beings use or their writing system, and some of them understand their hardware and others understand maybe their culture a little bit. And there's some anthropological data on how they, you know, what is their society look like, is how. How does the power dynamic work. That information, if it's locked up forever, if we don't have access to it, that sets us back. It doesn't really solve anything. It just puts us in a disadvantage. Right. Like, we kind of do need that. Maybe we don't need to know. Oh, yeah, they can, you know, come into your dreams at night and take you.

[Andy McGillin]

You've made the really interesting point though, Clint. So we've gone from earlier, having that discussion around we should know, etc. Etc. And we hear from a lot of folks online, everyone should know they don't have the right. All of a sudden, we're already at a place where, yeah, maybe we shouldn't know that and that. So now you go back to the gatekeepers and Bigelow's comment about them being some kind of hero, which must repulse a lot of people hearing that idea. But perhaps they have already got all this and files and conversations, and you've got this group of folks who know or have this level of knowledge who are sitting there going, you. You don't need to know. Not only because of that and that, but all of this other stuff. They have get multiple versions of Xander's, you know, cork board there with the public. Don't need to know. Maybe a lot of those are absolutely terrifying. And it's like, it's better they don't know this. So what you do. Yeah, you just don't give them any of it because that's far, far easier, I think.

[Xander]

Sounds like Pandora's box, really. Like you can either open it or you can't. And that's it. Yeah, that is the reason. Andy, I'm. I'm gonna be putting you. There you go, Andy. There you are, Andy, I'm gonna be putting you.

[Andy McGillin]

Someone's got a little printer, don't they?

[Xander]

Put you right there.

[Andy McGillin]

Someone's been on you.

[Clint]

I'm not saying you can.

[Xander]

We can. We can get you on the other side at some point, but you'll stay there for now.

[Clint]

To your point, Andy, I'm not saying I have to. I, I am like 100, you know, locked into it. Has to be balls to the wall, disclosure or nothing at all. I think I'm. What I'm saying is you, you owe us. You need to make the case right to the people. Someone's got to come out and explain some shit. We need, we need a few answers. If you don't all want to go to federal prison. If you don't all want to. You know what I mean? Like you, for 75, you know, plus years, we have been living in a really upside down, topsy turvy version of reality. And they have gaslit people. Okay, we can talk about, you know, amnesty. That's all I'm saying. We can have that conversation, but it's got to be a conversation. And the people having it can't be people we've never heard of in rooms we'll never see about shit we'll never know. Like some of it has to come out and there has to be some kind of civilian accountability because not only is this not only an American issue, it's a global issue. You know, America can do whatever it wants. But what about the Chinese? What about the Russians? What about Brazil? You know, a lot of land mass shit happens there too. It's not like that. You know, at some point the, the cat gets out of the bag and people, in order to be prepared for it, I think, need to be at least respected enough to understand maybe that maybe not every detail in the sandbox, but at least know how big the sandbox is. This is kind of what we're dealing with, and then we can talk. I think a lot of people, including me, are open to the notion of like limited, you know, amnesty for certain people, depending on their role and what they did. And I mean, I just don't know. All I know is that enough high level people have said that this is beyond anything that anyone could possibly understand. That no one can make decisions on it, except for apparently six unaccountable people at one aerospace company that no one can actually name. And meanwhile, like the rest of the world just has to live under the shroud of all this. It just seems really backwards to me. In other words, what are we fucking fighting for? Like what kind of world are we actually trying to preserve here? The one where unaccountable groups of mysterious individuals and smoke filled rooms make decisions that affect everybody or a different world? And I think that's where I'm at. I just want to see. I'd like for us to try, try to understand.

[Xander]

There's the third person. What's it called? The third person effect, where everybody thinks that if the world was told something devastating, they would be fine, but everybody else wouldn't be able to handle it. That's like a known phenomena. And I wonder whether it's a case of that. It's, it's hubris because none of us would be fine or realistically everybody would be fine. We don't know because we haven't had that. But I, I think it might end up being a case of that. Like if we did find out every. And, and to be fair, maybe I put myself in side A as well. Like if we don't know, maybe it's not a gamble worth taking. If, if it's a case of we don't know whether everyone's going to lose their minds or everyone's going to be like, I mean, that's kind of cool.

[Pavel]

We already went through something like sort of a test of something catastrophic and it was a show.

[Xander]

Are you talking about the pandemic?

[Pavel]

Yes.

[Xander]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if there was a

[Clint]

pandemic before, I don't know, the pandemic was a shit show. But you know, at the same time, it was a situation that unfolded across the globe. It was something so unique and huge. There were a lot of different ideas on how to handle it. And some places handled it one way and other places handled it differently. And you know, kind of sounds like,

[Pavel]

like, if Chips Fellworthy, there's gonna be a show like that.

[Bob Bigelow]

I think

[Andy McGillin]

I love the pandemic. I had a great time during it.

[Xander]

Well, there was, there was one. Yes, the pandemic really was awful and it showed a lot of horrible parts of humanity. But just to play devil's advocate for that for a second, I don't know my neighbors names still, even now. But every Thursday during the pandemic, everyone in the UK would stand on their front porch and clap for the nhs. That's something that only something like the pandemic could have made us do. Like, I was staring at my neighbors from across the street and I don't, I don't, I still don't know their names now. But for those brief. I think it lasted for two minutes every Thursday. For those brief two minutes, I saw a lot of potential in the kind of community that we can foster in the face of pretty bad hardship at the time. But at the same time, like, I had a great time during COVID as well. I was, I started working from home that was the moment I realized, yeah, I could. Yeah, well, loads of people didn't. And it's. It's just that one little glimpse that that's the kind of thing I want to foster.

[Clint]

It's like, it was like that in New York, right? Like, I remember standing outside in Manhattan and you could hear everybody clapping. People in stores would be clapping. People would be going out on their balconies clapping. I mean, like, whatever people were around. And then there was also the horror of, like, all of the. The early days where people were really dropping like flies.

[Xander]

And it.

[Clint]

But what it was, was this moment where everybody got focused. For the early first few days, everyone was focused on one thing. And I think that opportunity, there's an opportunity there to do something huge. And after 9, 11 was a similar thing, right? George Bush came and stood in the rubble of the World Trade center and he picked up that megaphone and it was a picture perfect Steven Spielberg, kind of like a Michael Bay whatever moment. And he gives this speech and he's talking about how we're going to rally the country and they're going to hear from us. And in that moment, the world was so focused on the United States that we could have asked for anything and the world would have complied. They would have been like, okay, it was just this one. And we squandered it. We just squandered that whole moment. I think the disclosure conversation shouldn't be looked at as this, like, shit show. It's an opportunity to spend the most valuable single coin we will ever spend to reset the mind, the mindset of all people, and give us something new to focus on that could be positive. It depends on who says it and what's the speech. This is why it's important for the president to be the right president who can go out and give a speech that actually makes people feel something inside where they go, you know what? Maybe we really do need to rethink how we're doing business here. Give people that time and then give. And then right after disclosure, give everybody like a week off. Just say, we're just going to take a national holiday for a week. Everybody stay home, just chill. And let's all process this.

[Andy McGillin]

See, like disclosure, Clint, as you have painted it there, it doesn't. It doesn't happen regardless, in any scenario. Like, any president comes out and says aliens are real however they announce it. Do all the genocides happening across the world, do the guys in Somalia who are knifing and macheting down, down babies because of where they're Born go, ah, there's aliens now. Let me put this knife down. No, no, no.

[Clint]

But, but you could, you could say today in. I am making the announcement that the United States is confirming the existence of non human intelligence from another world. That we have made contact with this intelligence. That contact is ongoing and we are joining with our friends in China and Russia and around the world. I've already had calls in with President Xi and Putin and everybody else and all of our allies. And we are going to immediately convene a worldwide summit on this. And at that summit, we're going to discuss some items of really key importance. You know, our nuclear arsenal, our military, the way that we run things. I mean, do we keep fighting each other when we know that there's something else out there, or do we have an opportunity for a brief moment, a window in time to really rally people together and try at a high diplomatic level? I'm not saying you can solve everything. I'm not saying that everyone in Somalia gets a flying car and the Gaza genocide stops and all of these things are going to. I don't think that's going to happen. I'm saying that you have the, the, the political currency that will come from disclosure is so, so, so valuable and it will only ever happen once. So I really hope that whoever does it seizes that moment and gives us something to look forward to. Because the world looks so goddamn bleak every fucking day. Everybody feels it. We all know it. It's exhausting. It sucks. The news is always worse every day. It just feels like there hasn't been anything to look forward to. As a parent, you look at your kids, you go, what kind of world are you going to grow up in? You know, how do I prepare my child for the next 25 years? Not we. We don't even know if there's going to be employment or if going to college is even going to make sense in five years. So it's like the idea that you could say something to the whole world that everyone would hear that would arrest their attention and give them something positive to hope for. God, what a powerful moment. If we ever needed something like that, that this is the time.

[Andy McGillin]

Can I stick to the theme of Doomer Friday and just say why that doesn't work us?

[Clint]

Please, please go right in. Let me open my whiskey.

[Andy McGillin]

Because we have had opportunity after. We have had Hiroshima, Nagasaki, we had the end of the Second World War, we had the, the, the Cold War. You had the kind of Cuban Missile Crisis. You had 9, 11, you had Covid and After every single one of these. Remember Covid, when everyone was stuck inside and I, I'm caveating. Everyone. And people couldn't wait to get out. And couldn't people wait? People couldn't wait to go and see their friends again. Couple of years after that, we're in multiple wars, multiple genocides. The place is a shit show. We have had opportunity after opportunity. Human society does not work like that. We never have. And there is no.

[Pavel]

It's a failed experiment.

[Andy McGillin]

There is no example that backs up any of the blue sky thinking that as a society we will all one day join hands and sing Kumbaya. It's then the evidence is literally there for it.

[Xander]

I know, you're right. You are right.

[Clint]

And I, I think I like your.

[Xander]

How practically realistic. I just think it's good to strive for the, for the, for the alternative.

[Andy McGillin]

At some point I'm striving for confirmation like I want, I want. I don't give a who it is. I don't give a who it is. I'll just use the F word, Trump to come out and say we've got aliens. Cool. And then, then I'll work from there. I'm not thinking anything past that at this moment. I will, I will take that and I will. I imagine the days and weeks after we get that confirmation, people are still at work. The world goes on. The banks will be open, the stock markets will be there, the dummer meter will be at 12, etc. Etc. That's what will happen. The world will carry on, but with a new knowledge. And it will take time for things to change, assimilate, etc.

[Clint]

I don't think people, especially younger people, realize like just how bad things have gotten. But there was a time when, and I know that it's raining here, so I have some weird audio where the President was, was respected. And I think back to this clip from Ronald Reagan addressing the un And I listen to what he says.

[Bob Dean]

Some outside universal threat. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war.

[Clint]

Just something like that. I, I just a rousing, inspiring speech. It doesn't have to be perfect, but like set a, set a bar, you know, set a, set a goal for humankind.

[Xander]

I just wonder what we need, a

[Clint]

Kennedy speech or a Reagan speech. We need that. We don't need like Trump going, we Got the best aliens. We got the best.

[Xander]

They're voting Trump. They vote.

[Clint]

They love me.

[Andy McGillin]

Reagan was involved in the Iran Contra stuff, so, you know, he wasn't perfect. Kennedy was shagging Madeline Monroe. So they weren't pair. And I'm not comparing them to Trump. I'm not.

[Clint]

No one's perfect because.

[Andy McGillin]

Because let's not lose half the audience right now. But I don't particularly have to have to associate a person making that announcement and statement that would be world changing. And right now it needs to be the President of the United States. Anyone else doesn't work.

[Xander]

So be it more concerned with the words specifically. So, like, if, if they know in the programs that at least the NHI that we're in contact with pose no threat to us and they're sure of that, is that something they're going to share with us immediately or is like, is it attack onto the end of the. Trump turning around on Air Force One and saying, yes, NHI have been here for a very long time. As far as we know, they pose no threat to us whatsoever. Is that something that would at least give us the opportunity for a little bit more of a hopeful future than just, I mean, imagine the, the uproar of saying what Reagan just said, like, yeah, there is, there is an alien threat here and it is a threat.

[Andy McGillin]

Like, my concern is when Trump goes off script, though, and adds something on that he shouldn't, so, you know, he gives the statement to say they're not a threat to us. You know, they've been friendly so far. That doesn't mean they couldn't bomb us all to shit tomorrow. We've also Independence Day and it's, oh, Donald, don't just leave it where it was. Like his comments recently about the Japanese yen being weakened and we want to help out Japan. They've been really good to us. Except Pearl Harbor. Some things you don't have to tack on to the end of sentences. So I agree with you.

[Pavel]

Yeah.

[Andy McGillin]

That there's an opportunity there to keep it very simple. Give us the. We've got confirmation. There's an nhi. We're looking into it. We're investigating it. We will divulge more. It looks like they're not hostile. Let's see how it goes. Can I just mention, because several people, including Justin, are asking us to bring up when I spoke to Danny Sheehan, since you mentioned Trump, Clint, I know you're a huge Trump fan. Danny Sheehan's concern with Trump being the guy who does this is that he uses the Continuity of government and declares a state of emergency by confirming there's an nhi, hence canceling midterms and keeping all his folks and himself in position because of the NHI emergency. I think a few folks want your thoughts on that. I spoke to Danny Sheen about it,

[Clint]

so do you want my thoughts on it?

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah, a few folks are asking us to discuss it. So I, I spoke about.

[Clint]

I, I don't, you know, I don't know. This guy is already thinking, you know, he's already out casting death out on an election that hasn't happened yet. So the idea that he's not going to try to find every possible way to stay in power. I just think that, yeah, he would totally use it for that.

[Pavel]

Why not?

[Clint]

That would be. If you want, if you needed a reason. Well, we can't have an election now. It's too crazy. We have, you know, we just dropped this truth bomb on people. I could see that.

[Xander]

That would be such a sad thing. Is that one of the most important announcements that any leader could ever make short of there is a God, there isn't a God or whatever, which they've probably made that announcement in the past anyway. But for them to use it as a political tool would just be the most, for me, the most close minded use of such a. It'd be a waste of opportunity, as you've said, Clint. But to Andy's credit, I think it's incredibly realistic. It is like we're in the.

[Clint]

Yeah, the dumbest timeline for disclosure.

[Xander]

The secrecy is power, man. And if you can use that secret to increase your power. When has the United States government or legacy programs not done that, like they will use all information at their disposal

[Pavel]

to cement power or any superpower for that matter. Yeah, they all do it.

[Xander]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Secrecy is more important than money in a lot of aspects like that. If we just, we don't even have to go into the Epstein stuff to know how powerful those secrets are. They have gripped a nation beyond anything. And it's that. That for me has nothing to do with money. This has to do with the darkest secrets of the rich and powerful. And they are willing to do pretty much anything to, to make sure that secrecy is maintained so that they can keep hold of their power. And ufology is exactly the same thing. So if, if they can use it to their advantage, they will. And that is one way that. Yes, a president who is aging and is in his second term already, how does one like him continue? Control. That's pretty much the one. One. The one you've got. That's the only option you've got.

[Clint]

And I think the unfortunate situation is that, like, whether you like Trump or not, the guy's 80 years old. He's not going to be around for this. Like, it's just, it's going to be a new generation of people that are going to have to live in the world that's being designed right now. And I think that younger leaders who have more skin in the game need to be tapped to have some say in this.

[Andy McGillin]

You know, it's just such one really bad.

[Clint]

Yeah, it's pouring down rain. I have a monsoon here. Let me turn that off. You guys speak amongst yourselves. Oh, here's a. Here's a question for you, Andy. Take a look.

[Andy McGillin]

I'll read out with Danny Sheehan. You did a great job of making him face facts about Trump, like it or not, being best placed to disclose. What are the odds Donald J. Trump makes announcement pre midterms? I think we will get at least a comment from Trump pre midterms. Whether we get the Bigelow advised comment about our confirmation, I don't know. But I think we will get some form of comment from him, perhaps a tease about more action, but really he's in a position right now with this fifth drop that was not even touched on. That was utter horseshit. I think he could really make a big splash by having drop six be something actually relevant and it only has to be one document or one video and drop six, but make it a good one and that will change the conversation. But right now there's a lot of talk and the action, and I'll say that's the action publicly, is still relatively limited because the drops are horrendous and they have not been good. I, I said we would know more after drop three and here we are. Drop five was really poor. I put up a montage of all today's videos on my channel. Clint, sorry, there's a motorbike going past, if anyone can hear that. So, yeah, it's, it's not good. And it's just we're looking to see something else coming down the pipeline. Maybe we get something in the coming days. Grushy 60 to 90 day timeline is up. Round about now. People who were saying it was done today, it's done yesterday, done tomorrow, it's about now. I'm not going to nail them on 90 days, but if we don't have anything say by the end of next week, the week after, then I'd like to hear from Grush as to what's happened otherwise. Is it any different to Jake Barber saying something by the end of 12 months and nothing coming out?

[Clint]

What do you think about the timing of that Gerb Ross interview? I know this sounds bad, but like the timing of calling into question Lou Elizondo right before he literally gets the DC to take the job of disclosures.

[Jake Barber]

Are.

[Clint]

Are they trying to like pull the rug out from under this guy? Because this is a time factor thing and they have to do it now. What do you think's going on there?

[Andy McGillin]

I'll go first if you want. Ross and Lu are friends and they've said as much. The attack was really weird. Don Gerb. The language and wording was playground esque. If you're going to be taking a major job in dc, I would expect someone to be far more political and professional about it. I think there are some fair points raised by Lou about Gab's research. He maybe has to come out with some more receipts for some of the things he said. That's a very fair point. And I think Ross Coultar. I like Ross and I really enjoy a lot of the work. But there is a direction News Nation is taking where they are enjoying sensationalism, engagement and fanning flames and this conversation and they seem to be pushing that a lot more where there are other aspects of the conversation that don't really get covered because it's perhaps not as popular. So timing wise, it seems that Elizondo is going to be getting this job again. Funnily enough, Danny Sheehan, who I thought might have been otherwise about it, said he doesn't think Grush or Elizondo should take it. He says anything that is overseen by the executive branch is basically putting the gatekeepers and secret keepers in charge of their own stuff, which is what we don't want. It should be something congressionally appointed was his view. And Grush and Elizondo should both be in charge. That was from Sheehan. He said something that a lot of folks aren't talking about and this is something guys like you, Pavel. I don't know if you've covered it too much, but maybe you could do more of because you do a lot more deeper stuff than me on this. Danny Sheehan says everyone's talking about the Security Council and the. The scientific advisory board headed up by Avi Loeb. What people aren't talking about is the overall council.

[Dylan Borland]

Yeah.

[Andy McGillin]

The governance board, which the UFOs are position which is a chief. Chief officer role.

[Pavel]

Chief officer at the National Security Council and yep and the governance board is supposed to be like every director of

[Andy McGillin]

every intelligence agency, FBI, nsa, CIA. And he's like, those are the people keeping the secrets. And you're literally going to stick them on a board to disclose. They're not going to do that. So that was an interesting point from Sheehan.

[Pavel]

Yeah, it was.

[Clint]

Another question for you, Andy, about Danny, this one.

[Andy McGillin]

Andy, loved your interview with Sheehan. Where do you all think he fits in in this subject? He's a bit of a wild card, but he seems like he means well. I should have Danny back on next week because I only got through about half of what I wanted to. I've always held the opinion. And being really honest, Danny Sheehan's got what, 40 years of exposure and research in this topic. I think sometimes he, he speculates, sometimes he gives true direct knowledge from first hand witnesses. And I think sometimes given the amount of folks he has been exposed to, Grush, Elizondo, Greer, all of that crew, some of the conferences and circuits he attends. When you hear all these different narratives, agendas, opinions, naturally as a human being, doesn't some of that bleed into, you know, your memory gets a bit mixed up and I think sometimes that gets repeated and it's hard sometimes to know what is genuinely true 100% that is fact or actually, was that something speculative that's bled over into this story? Now that can happen, but I don't know. But that's just my opinion.

[Clint]

Do you guys want to look at some of these releases from the last tranche?

[Pavel]

Oh, just.

[Xander]

Was there really anything in there?

[Pavel]

So just to point out that in, in the documents they do talk a lot about black triangles, which I thought was interesting. This is the first time that I think something like this is released by the government. The acknowledgment like this of black triangles, even though it's just documents and, and illustrations, as you guys can see, but yeah, they're talking about it. This is not what people want. Really. We all agree there. That was worth mentioning, I think.

[Clint]

Didn't Matt Brown mention in the Immaculate Constellation files that he saw one of the biggest things was a bunch of pictures of triangles labeled arb. Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle.

[Pavel]

Yes, he said that.

[Clint]

And now this.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yep,

[Andy McGillin]

we've had that stuff before. Like this was the worst of the five drops. Like, yeah, I, I've got on my YouTube channel, Clint, you can use it or not. The, the. It's 12 minutes roughly. That's every video combined. There's 16 videos. Of the 16, six of them are from one event and it's a, it's someone filming a screen with their mobile phone. And some of Those videos are 2 seconds and 5 seconds and 6 seconds long. So actually six videos are almost exactly the same. And it shows nothing. It's the Pacific Ocean 2019, which I think is the one that Corbell and Nap had released, I believe, where the, the object goes into the water. Is that right?

[Pavel]

Yeah, they go like splash, splash, splash.

[Andy McGillin]

So it's from that, but it's like four minutes of, of a blob on a screen. There's then five of the 16 videos are from Oman and it's a tiny dot on the screen being filmed by gun camera and literally a dot just zipping around. No background, no context, no nothing. The files don't even show that. So literally, if you scrub through Clint, I've even labeled everything in the bottom left hand corner so you can see they're all from the same thing. Two of them go to darkness, but again it shows just two lights. There's very little clarity. And then the other five remaining videos are something zipping by a boat. And yeah, this is literally it. This is the quality of what we're looking at like a dot on a screen, so to say 16 videos got released. It wasn't 16 videos, it was seven different events.

[Clint]

Yeah, this is awful.

[Xander]

Yeah, it's not, it's not the actions of a legacy program that's playing ball at this point. Like that should be clear at this point. So, yeah, Leroy Jenkins, we're waiting for him, but he's not, he's not coming from a government approved source. I mean, that's.

[Clint]

This is footage. Crime Disney's documentary Encounter Alien Encounters from. This is March 1995. Look at the footage, look at the quality the Pentagon releases are.

[Andy McGillin]

Is that real though?

[Clint]

What the. Are they trying to pass off as footage like here?

[Andy McGillin]

Do you know what's really telling as well, Clint? See if you look at the actual file releases from the. The drop I believe I've got because I download them all as soon as they came out today. It gives you who they're from. And once again, the CIA has given two files. DOS, two files, Department of War 124 files. And then the rest are the FBI. The FBI is the organization that seems to be playing ball most with these. Pavel's nodding along. And if you go through every single drop, if you look who's releasing them, it's largely FBI. And the FBI are the ones giving files with any detail or substance. The CIA are literally shitting in their Hands and clapping.

[Pavel]

Yeah, they're flipping the finger.

[Clint]

Isn't this a metapod?

[Pavel]

Oh, seems like it. Right on you, bro.

[Clint]

Look at that.

[Bob Dean]

Weird.

[Pavel]

And this is not part of the files, by the way.

[Clint]

No, no, no. This is from Disney's documentary from 1995. Like, the one that was supposed to be released. Like, look at all this footage.

[Xander]

And

[Clint]

supposedly I'm supposed to believe that with a $1 trillion budget, our defense Department can only release, like, some little blurry dots? Like, what. What is this? Like, the footage we've seen in the past is so much better than what we're getting now. It just doesn't make sense. It just doesn't smell.

[Xander]

Even if we've. We've all been fooled all this time. And the video that you just, just showed is just prosaic, which it probably is. I don't know. You'd have thought the Department of War would also have videos like that that are similar sort of clarity, that they also say it's probably prosaic, but we don't know what it is. So technically, it's a ufo, but we don't get anything of that detail. It is all strictly dots on a screen, which makes me think. Yeah. That they are absolutely not giving us the. The. The.

[Andy McGillin]

The good stuff with no metadata either. Xander. It's literally. Here's the dot. And this is From Oman in 2023, I think that one was. That's it. No time, date, location, not even. There's. There's one that's. I want to say, interesting. It's probably the wrong word, but one of the last ones is, like two UFOs in the clouds or next to a cloud, it looks like. I can't even be sure that's exactly right, but that one is from the western United States, and that was from 2026. And it's literally two objects underneath what looks like a cloud, but that's all. And it's from such an extreme distance that it's quite static, the air and stuff, so you can't really tell much, but there's no more information for it than anything.

[Clint]

So this is the Lake Coats, is that right? Cote photo that was from 19. What is the date on this 1971

[Andy McGillin]

shot from an airplane Ornan survey map, wasn't it? Is that right? That being created, they were.

[Clint]

They had a plane flying along the coast, taking pictures of the ground below, surveying the ground for map making. And one of the photos shows this giant disc right there in the bottom. And the actual photograph, you can get the drum scan of the photo, which is enormous. It's like 128 gigs. It's some enormous fucking file. I actually have it somewhere on my computer. But you can zoom in way, way, way closer if you get the full res file. But more or less, this is, you know, 1971 shot on film from a moving airplane. I just don't buy that our satellites don't have better photos or that our Air Force doesn't have better data. I just don't buy it. And I think that's the thing that everybody knows we're being lied to.

[Bob Dean]

Right?

[Clint]

Like, there's just no way around it. So when we say disclosure, I think part of it is, like, just come clean with some of this shit because we know. We know you're not telling us the truth. And these releases are just awful. Like, it's terrible.

[Andy McGillin]

That's the national security stuff, though, and I do get that. As much as I want to see it, they're not going to show you the satellite 4K imagery that shows a baseball on a sidewalk because you're not meant to see that. You're not meant to know how good it is. And they don't want the Chinese and the Russians, even though they all know it's the old friends. I know, you know. I know you know. I know.

[Pavel]

Disclosure. Chicken.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah.

[Clint]

Like, just regular people with just regular cameras getting decent footage from 30 years ago. Like, I don't know what channel this is. I just clicked on top 10 UFO. Oh, there's a little gray back there. Look at that. For a kid. There he is.

[Xander]

There he is. He's just. He's that lonely meme.

[Dylan Borland]

Dude.

[Xander]

Who stood.

[Clint]

Is he peeing? He looks like he's peeing.

[Andy McGillin]

It looks he's having a piss here.

[Clint]

What's this?

[Andy McGillin]

That's not the Israel one.

[Xander]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy McGillin]

This was filmed from multiple angles, which is one of the things that people always say makes it genuine, but.

[Clint]

Oh, it just stops.

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Clint]

I mean, that could be it, guys.

[Xander]

Whoa.

[Pavel]

I like that one.

[Clint]

Let's back it up.

[Andy McGillin]

That is wild. That's insane.

[Clint]

I love his enthusiasm, though.

[Andy McGillin]

Oh, my. Townsend Brown. We know, Jesse. We know. You know.

[Clint]

What's this one? Well, was that a cow?

[Andy McGillin]

Yeah.

[Dylan Borland]

Is that real?

[Clint]

No way. That can't be. It's just got to be some horseshit.

[Andy McGillin]

There's an advert for milk in Scotland.

[Clint]

Oh, my God.

[Xander]

Okay.

[Pavel]

All right. Ah.

[Clint]

All right, guys. Well, 26, 38 people in here right now. That's pretty crazy. I think the biggest crowd we've ever had.

[Xander]

We should try and just try and identify the different tracks that are available to us. Because as I said, like I am with Andy in, in his thoughts around what is realistically going to happen. But I would like to try and change what is going to happen at least to some degree. Because as I said, I think the worst case scenario is that we get ushered into a very real cul de sac where we end up with less than what we have now. And all of a sudden we're 100 years down the line paying for, let's say, let's say we could. We could be paying for energy that we know 100% costs virtually nothing to provide, but we have zero alternative. So I think that's probably like the outcome that I want to avoid. And to do that we basically need to question every single thing that happens every single time so that we can just make sure. Are we getting pushed into a place where we actually. Yeah, we might learn one or two new things, but are we going to stop how short of where we need to be, are we going to end up by accepting what we're fed without question? That's. I think that's probably where I'd probably end. Like for me, that's my conclusion for the time being.

[Clint]

I got a couple other super chats that came through. M.Deads 1980 hey guys. Say the Borland Jesse interview brings up a lot of questions. There's some future humans ideals and spiritual ideals that is complicating this cosmic milieu. Love to call into the show to pick your brains. We got to get that call in thing back. Try to make that work. Tuxedo Mask says I think my girlfriend is a shapeshifter. I think so.

[Andy McGillin]

Lucky you.

[Clint]

We all think she's a shapeshifter. We're pretty convinced. Hey, no. JR deal. FC jamming. Thanks.

[Andy McGillin]

I'm not a lover pool fan or elites fan.

[Clint]

Griff F says a lack of formal disclosure definition hinders progress. In my opinion, it's governments admitting we are not alone. Everything else is a post disclosure effort. I think that makes sense. Let's get over the hump first and we can sort everything else else out as we go. Little Gucci says. Little Gucci says Leroy Jenkins, look up this weekend and every weekend. Look up guy. Okay, Little Gucci. Appreciate that.

[Xander]

If my kid wasn't asleep, I would do an impression of Leroy right now. But I'm not going to because that

[Bob Dean]

would wake her up.

[Clint]

See? Do we get everybody? Let's see. Quantum Sheep is sending some cash for the prop department I think you're going to need a bigger board. I think so. That board's going to be packed.

[Pavel]

That was good.

[Xander]

Well, we've got some. We've got some faces to put on the board. It's going to take us a few. A few weeks. So you're gonna have to come back every week. And as we. As. And when we can, when we feel comfortable, we'll. We'll add to the face to the board in the appropriate place. We'll get there.

[Clint]

Writ of habeas corpus says I've known David Grush's aunt personally for 13 years and spoken and text with her almost daily. David Grush is absolutely legitimate. Whoa.

[Andy McGillin]

Christopher Lee.

[Clint]

There you go. Rid of habeas corpus.

[Andy McGillin]

Texting David Grush's aunt.

[Clint]

See, there was some other comments here that I had set aside, but let's see if I can find it. Can we put Lou. What is this? Can we put Lou directly on the duct tape line? The lay of soul wants to know.

[Xander]

I think that's probably a conversation we can have on another episode because I'm not sure he belongs on the line. But we can talk about it next week or something.

[Clint]

We'll talk about it next week.

[Xander]

It was my intention to get him on tonight, but we've, we've just gone through so much stuff.

[Clint]

There's a lot to get through every week. And then we've got to get Jason Samoza on soon. Oh, yeah, he's been highly requested. Everybody wants to hear from Jason, so that'll be exciting.

[Pavel]

I'll reach out, let him know, we'll

[Clint]

go ahead and wrap it there, guys. But thanks for hanging out with us for two and a half hours. This is a big room. Today we had 2600 people in here, 2611 right now. So if you haven't hit that, like, button already, please do so. And if you haven't subscribed to whichever channel you're watching this on, please do that too or follow that person. We're cross streaming across all of our channels and we're trying to reach out and touch some people like you. So thanks for letting us touch you this evening.

[Bob Bigelow]

Evening.

[Clint]

And we really do appreciate the conversation and all of the back and forth. The comments are awesome. You guys are great. Thank you for all your thoughts and weighing in on this stuff. It's complicated. There's a lot to talk about. No one really has all the answers. So it's great to sit down with all of you and have this discussion every single week. And I'd like to Remind people. Well, let you know that our graphic designer, Cole Watkins, has been putting together a new podcast called Marked, and we've got a promo. Xander, I don't know if we could show this real quick before we roll out, but it's only a minute and a half long, and I'd like to show this promo for people, if anybody wants to check it out. Marked Semiotics is the channel, and I'm gonna put this in the chat real quick. And for anybody who is interested, please go there and check it out and we'll play the. The promo. But it's really cool. It's something that he's been working on very hard for some time now, and we're excited to.

[Xander]

Can we play it on. On screen?

[Clint]

Yeah, I got it right here.

[Xander]

Right Strikers?

[Clint]

Hope not. Let's try.

[Pavel]

Don't. Copyright strikers, please.

[Xander]

Full screen. That boy.

[Clint]

Every culture in human history has left marks.

[Xander]

Symbols, signs.

[Clint]

Some we understand, some we've decoded over centuries, and some we still can't explain. Semiotics is the study of those marks. What they mean, where they come from, and what they reveal about the minds that made them. We've spent centuries learning to decipher human symbols. This show asks one question. What happens when the symbols don't come from us? I'm Cole. I have 15 years of graphic design experience, 20 years as an illustrator, and a lifelong obsession with the weirder side of reality. And this is Marked. There it is. Marked. Semiotics is the channel. And I'll link to it in the. In the chat again, but go there. Support Cole and support the show. Thanks for watching, guys. We'll see you again next week. Take care of yourselves and each other. Make sure to get outside. Get some sunshine. Wash all your fruits and vegetables with a mild soap and water solution. Be sure to take care of yourselves. And I don't know, don't stay out of trouble. What else? I don't know. Eat more vegetables. I don't know. Be good to each other. Bye, guys.

[Dylan Borland]

What's this?

[Xander]

This is heavy. Need. I need this in. Oh.

[Bob Dean]

Ah.

[Xander]

They've got booze. I've got reading. What's that about?

[Clint]

Pick up. Atlas of Unidentified Flying objects by Annie McGillin. The number one book in all of ufology. Go to Amazon, pick it out. All right, guys.

[Xander]

All right.

[Clint]

See you next week.

[Andy McGillin]

Bye, folks.

[Pavel]

Bye. Bye.