The Disclosure Forum, A UFO Czar & Controlled Disclosure | Doomer Friday

Summary

That UFO Podcast – “The Disclosure Forum, A UFO Czar & Controlled Disclosure | Doomer Friday”

Release Date: June 29, 2026
Host: Andy McGrillen (That UFO Podcast) with Clint, Xander, Pavel
Theme:
A deep-dive, frank, and often skeptical roundtable recap of the recent Disclosure Forum event, the current state of UFO/UAP "controlled" disclosure in the US, the rumored emergence of a "disclosure czar," and the bigger cultural, political, and technological stakes tied to the ongoing UFO conversation.

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the aftermath and perceived meaning of the Disclosure Forum 2026—its intentions, effectiveness, and the ways in which the conversation on UFOs (now more often referred to as UAP or NHI—Non-Human Intelligence) is being steered, both publicly and behind the scenes. The hosts interrogate the authenticity, motivations, and practical implications behind increasing "mainstream" visibility, but also voice skepticism over whether substantive progress is actually being made or if we're seeing a calcification of "controlled disclosure" aligned with elite interests.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. The Disclosure Forum 2026 Recap

Timestamps: 01:36 – 10:22; revisit through 20:00+

• The Disclosure Forum aimed to convene experts, lawmakers, policy makers, scientists, and journalists in D.C.'s historic Kennedy Caucus Room.
• Technical execution was marred by significant audio issues, both for the livestream and in-person attendees (04:34, Andy).
• The early "awards ceremony" was widely panned as awkward and cringeworthy, feeling out of step with the purported seriousness of the event. Several hosts compared it to self-congratulatory spectacle rather than sober public service.

  "The award ceremony stuff was really cringy and embarrassing. And I half expected Jimmy Church to ride Billy Carson onto the stage, throwing awards out into the audience..." – Andy (05:21)

• Unclear intentions: The panel debates who the audience is for these events—ufologists, policymakers, or the broader public.

  "After the second hour I was feeling like, look, there is nothing new being said here...it feels like we’re going round in circles." – Xander (03:09)

• Growing concern that such events are not actually moving the needle, but rather recycling the same talking points year after year.

  "At some point, we're gonna hit that threshold where people stop showing up, because they were at the one last year and they heard the exact same questions." – Xander (06:48)

---

2. Fragmentation and the Problem of 'Too Many Cooks'

Timestamps: 10:22–15:00+

• The scene is crowded: The hosts note the explosion of UFO/UAP organizations, each with their own agendas, but lacking meaningful cross-group coordination.

  "Everyone's jumping off to their own agendas, their own narratives and a little bit of coming together would be useful." – Andy (10:24)

• Disclosure Foundation’s credibility questioned, especially whether they’re actually helping key whistleblowers, or simply laying groundwork for their own future influence.

---

3. Strategic Positioning & Controlled Disclosure

Timestamps: 15:00–24:00; revisited throughout

• Much discussion pivots around the narrative that government, intelligence, and tech power brokers are organizing “disclosure” primarily to secure advantages for themselves in a coming paradigm shift, not genuine public transparency.

  "Part of getting your ducks in a row is to make sure the right groups of people are already organized to do the things that are going to be called for in a post-disclosure paradigm." – Clint (11:30)

• Drawing analogies with financial/political self-dealing, the panel suspects disclosure is being tightly managed as part of a transition to a new technological order, with an emphasis on profits and control.

---

4. Geopoliitcal Dimensions & Global Readiness

Timestamps: 14:15–20:00

• The current process is perceived as very "America-centric," with global powers like Russia, China, and Brazil largely sitting on the sidelines.

  "This seems like we’re setting America up for disclosure and the rest of the world’s doing what?" – Andy (14:15)

• Potential for competitive narratives, disinformation, and future multipolar "disclosure" races are discussed.

---

5. On Whistleblowers, Crimes, and Amnesty

Timestamps: 18:15–31:54

• Intense debate about whether the process of disclosure is tied to amnesty for those involved in past secrecy and potential crimes (e.g. illegal concealment, cover-ups).
• Pavel emphasizes that for genuine healing and justice, there must be at least acknowledgment—if not prosecution—of historical wrongdoing.

  "All I complain about is them not going after the people who committed crimes...at least you can make those crimes public and the people who committed them public." – Pavel (22:50)

• The hosts agree most people will ultimately care more about the practical implications ("are UFOs real? can this tech help us?") than seeing retributive justice.

  "99.9999 of people will not care about historical crimes committed...They will care that UFOs are real, aliens are real, whatever that entails." – Andy (35:10)

---

6. Partial, Controlled, or ‘Real’ Disclosure

Timestamps: 22:07, 28:59, 45:50+

• Concerns abound about the prospect of "partial disclosure"—a carefully managed, incomplete unveiling for political/economic advantage.

  "The disclosure that's incoming inbound is not...full disclosure. It's going to be very controlled and very leveraged for a particular group of people." – Clint (22:07)

• They revisit the unanswerable question: "What does full disclosure actually look like?" and what would constitute "enough" for the public to accept profound truths.

---

7. Power, Technology, and Societal Change

Timestamps: 36:02–44:03; 54:38–58:09

• Even given revolutionary technologies or “free energy,” the hosts are deeply skeptical this would be equitably distributed or change human nature.

  “Our society is just not set up for...everything will be brilliant.” – Andy (41:44)

• Broad agreement that the tech oligarchy is likely to be the main beneficiary; the average person will experience little direct benefit.

  "You’re going to have a world where this tech oligarchy...has all the power, and the rest of us become second-class citizens." – Clint (42:19)

• Discussion of the threat that advanced AI (as a parallel to NHI technology) presents, and the inherent instability of any system managing such paradigm-changing breakthroughs.

  "It has been argued...that advanced frontier model AI is as dangerous as nuclear weapons." – Clint (58:29)

---

8. The Threat Narrative: Real, Imagined, or Manufactured?

Timestamps: 47:45–54:38; again 70:00+

• The panel debates the degree to which the “threat” narrative is appropriate, or if it is being played up to justify secrecy and militarization.

  "Is it appropriate to treat it as a threat because of the intent of the NHI, or is it appropriate...because that power would eventually be placed into the hands of humanity?" – Xander (51:49)

• Andy offers an analogy: The presence of a powerful new competitor (or unknown) is a threat, even if not actively hostile, and uncertainty alone drives caution.

---

9. Rumors: The Emergence of a ‘Disclosure Czar’

Timestamps: 86:13–90:46

• Pavel discusses rumors that Lou Elizondo may be designated as an official “disclosure czar,” with the main job of managing the process and serving as a public conduit.

  "This idea of a disclosure czar...was likely going to be for Lou Elizondo. And I don't know. I don't know what to think of it." – Pavel (86:17)

• Parallel speculation about whether more independent figures like David Grusch are being sidelined or are opposed to the current “controlled” model.

---

10. Community Skepticism and Accountability

Timestamps: 118:03–138:43

• Intense critical review of purported UFO/ET evidence video released by the “psionic asset” team, with the panel united in calling it worthless and embarrassing for the movement.

  "That does not help the UFO topic with the 99.9% of the public we're trying to get on board at all." – Andy (121:49)

• Broader point about the need for greater skepticism and discernment, especially with the ease of AI fakery.
• Agreement that public conversations should be tough, accountable, and not mere mutual praise or easy boosterism.

  "The point of holding someone’s feet to the fire is to give them the opportunity to provide the context the rest of us need." – Xander (142:03)

• Call for more honest, nuanced on-record confrontations between figures like Lou Elizondo and David Grusch (“Let Grush ask Lou the questions!” – 112:05)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Who is the new person watching this? ...I don't know what audience this is really for at this point." – Xander (08:01)
• "A lot of these organizations now...are working on different things for different reasons." – Andy (10:24)
• "If the technology makes it down to the common person in any way...they’re not going to give you the box that powers your life for free." – Clint (43:27)
• "You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That’s probably the case in the UFO topic too..." – Andy (109:34, riffing on Batman)
• "We need to have higher standards as a community for what we accept and what we just call bullshit." – Clint (125:10)
• "At some point you just have to move on and focus on other things too. So...we do occasionally find out when people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes." – Clint (143:34)
• "This is the most punk rock shit ever. This is the big one and we’re living through it." – Clint (141:18)

---

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |---------------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 01:36–10:22 | Reactions to the Disclosure Forum event | | 15:09–22:15 | International dimensions, amnesty, and whistleblowers | | 28:59–35:10 | What would “full disclosure” even mean? | | 36:02–44:03 | Practical impacts—who benefits from new technology? | | 45:50–54:38 | Concept of threat: NHI intent vs. threat of power shift | | 58:09–66:34 | AI as an analogy for uncontrollable paradigm shifts | | 86:13–93:21 | Disclosure Czar rumors and implications | | 118:03–138:43 | Critical review of recent UFO evidence and accountability|

---

Takeaways

• Skepticism inside the community is at an all-time high—there’s demand for clarity, accountability, and real action rather than self-serving spectacle.
• Disillusionment is visible over signs of “controlled” or “leveraged” disclosure; most hosts see it steering toward elite interests and managed change, not radical transparency.
• Recognition that technological or ontological truths will not automatically trigger global, equitable transformation—human systems will still be gatekeepers.
• The public debate must toughen up, and more direct, challenging exchanges between figureheads are wanted.

---

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Show

This episode captures the gritty, sometimes caustic, inner discourse of the current UFO research community. Moving beyond naïve enthusiasm or blind belief, the panel unpacks the cynical, realpolitik, and systemic barriers to authentic "disclosure." While the full episode offers banter and in-jokes, the core is a no-nonsense audit of where the movement stands, who really stands to gain, and caution against easy narratives or uncritical boosterism.

A must-listen for anyone hoping to understand not just the surface news, but the underlying power games, hopes, and disputes roiling the 2026 UFO community.

---

Transcript

[Xander]

You ain't heard about Moto Casino.

[Clint]

Moto has real Vegas slots. Any game you can find on the

[Andy]

floor in Vegas, you can play it on Moto.

[Xander]

I like my slots hot.

[Clint]

Moto's free to play like food stamps

[Xander]

in line at the grocery store at

[Clint]

a funeral in traffic.

[Andy]

Keep your eyes on the road.

[Clint]

Hop on Moto Casino.

[Andy]

Moto Casino Got jackpots that are bigger than my belly.

[Clint]

Moto America's hottest free to play social casino.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casino is a social casino board.

[Xander]

We're prohibited in the purchase.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Necessary.

[Xander]

Visit Moto Us for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

My fellow Americans, this July we're celebrating America's birthday at Moto Casino by giving away 1,776,000 in prize. And one lucky winner is gonna take home 1 million. Sc. Happy 250th birthday, America. You're welcome. Download Motocasino today. Download the Motocasino app today. Motoccasino is a social casino. Prohibited. No purchase Necessary.

[Xander]

Visit Moto Us for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Moto Casino America social casino.

[Clint]

Welcome back to the night shift. Your safe space for talking about UFOs, UAPs, NHI disclosure, the coming X Files reboot. I think they're rebooting the X Files. That's what I heard and everything else that's going on in the world. It's been a interesting week. Pavel's got some interesting news to share later in the show. Something I think you're going to want to stick around for. We've got our very special return champion. Andy from that UFO podcast is back with us this week. How you doing, Andy?

[Moto Casino Announcer]

I'm good.

[Andy]

You caught me unaware, sir. I was staring off into the distance like someone at a disclosure forum waiting on their award since they were giving them out for most of the show. Well done to those folks.

[Clint]

Yeah, we'll have to talk about that. That was.

[Xander]

Who would you like to thank?

[Andy]

Well, do you know what? I didn't prepare anything, but I'd like to thank the Academy first off for. Yeah, it was a bit much, wasn't it? Yeah. I think we're going to talk about the event, but for the love of Christ, you say.

[Clint]

Did you guys make it through the full thing? Isn't it like. It's like seven and a half hours long, right?

[Andy]

Live two and a half hours. I had stuff to do like I had to.

[Pavel]

So in my case I. I was out the whole day because I was at a thesis defense, one of my friends. So I couldn't. I couldn't Be on, like on the dial. I tried to listen to it when I was driving to the event that I went to and the sound problems were pretty off putting for me, so I had to take it out and, and I, I, I was watching a few clips throughout the day and I do have my notes.

[Clint]

Oh, it's got notes. Xander, what was your take? Did you watch the whole thing or how far?

[Xander]

I watched some of it. I'm kind of the same after a while and I, I, bearing in mind I'm particularly grumpy at the moment and I'm probably, I'm sure Andy probably is as well. It's just too hot to be, to be in a good mood right now.

[Andy]

Yep.

[Xander]

So I'm grouchy right now. But after the second hour I was feeling like, look, there is nothing new being said here. And I love the fact that, that the audience gets bigger. Like with all, everything, everything that happens, the audience is getting bigger every time. That's cool. But it doesn't feel like there's anything new being said right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, it feels like we're kind of going round in circles. The same ideas and the same sort of questions are being asked, with the exception of the one guy from, he had glasses on. I keep forgetting his name. He was, he was excellent. He moderated a debate and he had some great.

[Pavel]

Oh, that dude's from NBC News.

[Xander]

That's the one. Yeah. He just.

[Clint]

For people who don't know what we're talking about, we're talking about the disclosure forum, 2026, which was what, yesterday? Just a few hours ago? Right? Was it 93,547 views on the News Nation and can someone walk through. What exactly was this intended to be? What was the.

[Andy]

Can I, can I come in on that? Because I was going to ask Clint. Okay, so we've got this forum announced by the folks at the Disclosure foundation that previously was the, what do you call it? I'm being asked to do something here. Oh, makeup. If I could speak closer. Is that okay, Xander?

[Xander]

That's better. Yeah.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Okay. So the, the folks there, I think people were waiting on, hearing them speak generally because they were the disclosure Fund looking to bring in donations to assist whistleblowers legally, etc. We've then had Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland come forward and say, none of these organizations are giving us any help. We are doing it ourselves. So they had a big question to answer. They've come forward with this forum event Now, I think largely it looks like it was pretty well done, and it was pretty serious. The audio issues they were also having in the room, so that wasn't just affecting the live stream. I messaged Madik, who was part of the panel that's on just now, and he said, yeah, we're having issues in the room, too. So that aside, which does not help, especially a live streaming audience, I'm not.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

They.

[Andy]

They got the tone a little bit off, especially early on with. And this is just a personal thing, but I know other folks agreed the award ceremony stuff was really cringy and embarrassing. And I half expected Jimmy Church to ride Billy Carson onto the stage and start throwing awards out into the audience. We do not need that. When you've got experts, lawmakers, scientists, policy makers, guys from NBC, former FBI, all those folks in that room, you don't have to hand out fake awards. And please, if you attend one of these events as a member of the audience, do not whoop and clap all the time either. So, again, for me is this. And I know, Clint, you often say this, this can be entertaining, this can be entertainment, this can be whatever. But what was this event meant to be? Because it seemed like a mix of everything. And I think you have to pick one direction and go. Go full steam ahead with it.

[Clint]

Well, what. What was it intended to be? I mean, I think that's the part that I'm still confused by. Exactly what was the purpose of the original?

[Xander]

I think that's part of the problem. You're highlighting a problem here.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Yeah.

[Xander]

Is that it's not clear, because from

[Clint]

what it looks, it looks like it's a setup for something that's to come. It looks like it's. We need, you know, to get all these people in a room and start getting them into a room more frequently to sort of lay the groundwork for something.

[Xander]

At some point, we need to stop granting. Sort of like granting immunity for events for the cause of just raising awareness. Because awareness is getting out there, that's fine. But, like, let's have events that sort of push things forwards in a. In a different way. And I, As I said, I like the fact that these things are getting more popular and there's more people watching online, there's more people in attendance, bigger rooms every time. But at some point, we're gonna hit that threshold where people stop showing up, because they were at the one last year and they heard the exact same questions being asked and the exact same people on stage and the exact same answers being given. And I think that's kind of. I'm Personally there already. I don't know if the general public is there as well, but they are.

[Pavel]

Look at the comments.

[Xander]

Yeah, maybe so.

[Clint]

Like it says, I'm reading one right here. It says I've just on this one. Alien scientist. This is how you know a deep state psyop. They give each other fake awards for their disinfo service. Lou had the chance to disclose real intel. He showed a chandelier reflection. God, it's pretty brutal. In a nutshell, yeah.

[Xander]

In a nutshell, yeah. We, we have to decide like who is the new person watching this? Because is everybody in the live chat like a ufologist? Like have they all been watching for 10 years or is somebody just click clicked on something they. They liked the title of? I don't know what audience this is really for at this point, because everybody.

[Andy]

I didn't think it was a bad event. I've not seen the full seven and a half hours. It's good. But I think to partially answer Clint's point, he's asking what was it meant to be? I don't think they knew what they wanted it to be. Do they want this to be a contact in the desert style event but with really high end names? They've clearly got the contacts but contact book for it. Or do they want it to be more of a. A soul type event where it is a lot less conference style? And it seemed to be a mix of both. And I don't think right now we need that. Now this event was clearly planned quite a bit in advance maybe. And to Clint's point, they, they had to be a lot clearer on what this is, what it's for and why it's going to. Why it's happening in the first place and what it's going to achieve. It just kind of seems to have fallen in the middle and maybe that's not their fault that it's fallen in the middle of a lot of stuff around it. Well, repeating a little bit.

[Clint]

I mean, it says here on the website, this is the Disclosure foundation website. A serious forum on UAP transparency, congressional oversight, scientific inquiry and the broader implications of disclosure. Convened in the historic Kennedy Caucus room where the Senate held the Watergate and Army McCarthy hearings. And the Disclosure foundation is a nonpartisan nonprofit advancing the public disclosure and scientific understanding of unidentified anomalous phenomena through policy leadership, legal action and public education. And then if we go to who is there? Who's on their board? Leadership and advisory board. Here we go. Chris Mellon. Okay. Jordan Flowers. Interesting. Anna Brady Estevez. Eric Davis. Mike Gold. Avi Kirk McConnell.

[Andy]

It's pretty heavy hitting.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Andy]

A lot of folks have been involved, especially the last couple of years. Some of the newer names are getting on board with it. But I think this is something I asked on, on, on the Patreon for the podcast around. There are so many of these organizations now. Again, it's just like everyone's jumping off to their own agendas, their own narratives and a little bit of coming together would be useful to work towards because it seems like what are you all working on? Different things for.

[Xander]

Part of the problem is everyone has their own theories as to what's going on and who knows what and everything.

[Clint]

Pretty sure this kind of comes going on. This is the group that knows.

[Xander]

I would be willing to bet they do, but it's like no one can seem to agree and we're in the space of secrets and no one's willing. It's kind of when people say like it's gonna be a case of who's gonna show their cards first. It's kind of the same with all of these ilks in ufology. Right now is like there's so many little conversations going on in the background.

[Clint]

Well, if you, if you knew, if you had it on really good authority that this was a done deal and this was a for sure disclosure was going to happen at a certain, within a certain window of time, you'd want to get your ducks in a row. And part of getting your ducks in a row is to make sure that the right groups of people are already organized to do the things that are going to be called for in a post disclosure paradigm. And maybe that is partly why there are so many similarly organized or similar type groups that are being founded and foundations and that type of thing that can suddenly apply for grant money, they can suddenly start to do, you know, I don't know what it exactly will be in terms of the end game, but there would be a ramp up. And I'm always interested in the things that you would anticipate to see demonstrated by the people who would know first. Right. Like we look at members of Congress and their stock trades, for example, Right. Like Nancy Pelosi suddenly is like worth $500 million or whatever the number is. And there's no possible way that these people could be making that kind of money unless they're trading on insider information, which we know they are. So there must be echoes of that happening in the disclosure world somewhere. And I would assume, as we've kind of discussed in the last few weeks on this show, it would have a lot of overlap with the tech world and the finance world.

[Xander]

Well, immediate question from that then. What was the last, other than Age of Disclosure, which is entertainment, what was the last big film that came out related to disclosure?

[Clint]

S 4?

[Andy]

Dude, you mean disclosure Day?

[Xander]

Yes, I said Spielberg's film, didn't I?

[Andy]

You said Age of Disclosure.

[Xander]

All right. I was alluding to Age of Disclosure being the last very big push where we had Congress members and a lot of the people that appeared in, in, in the disclosure foundations for the Disclosure Forum event. So there's, there's like an answer at least.

[Clint]

Well, I think you would be able to spot the overlap in the boards of directors of these various organizations. You would start to see, you know, look at who's on the board, look at what they've done in the past, look at what organizations they're tied to, and you'll start to see, like, those are the people who are probably closer to the actual information source than anybody else, I would imagine. And they're the ones that are getting their ducks in a row. This is something that Paola, Paola Harris talked about one time, and it was just the watching the smart money and watching people, how they, how they behave. I suspect this has something to do with it, but I don't know.

[Andy]

That's a really positive way to look at it. And I think that's a, that's very fair to say that these folks are getting ahead of the game. They're early adopters. They're the crypto bros that bought bitcoin for one buck when it was, you know, when it was cheap. And however, for me, they, I used this recently, this canary in the coal mine, I suppose would be seeing Russia and China moving on this too, because I feel right now, no offense to the Americans, but, but this seems like we're setting America up for disclosure and the rest of the world's doing what. So that, that to me doesn't seem like we're ready quite yet for disclosure. And it would be, when you see Russia and China making bigger waves about it, you would perhaps then be on the cusp of something. Maybe the US Are going to do it into hell with everyone. But you would think the other superpowers would have an inkling and want to make a move.

[Pavel]

I would consider Brazil an important power in this whole disclosure thing because of their history. And I think that Brazil is trying to make some moves. Nothing substantial yet, just statements, you know, But I would also be looking out

[Clint]

for whatever they do, I think.

[Xander]

Do you think we might Enter an age where nation states might. Might say to, like, if. If China was to make an announcement, do you think there's a chance that the US Would say, don't believe it? It's. It's disinfo.

[Clint]

Fake news.

[Pavel]

Already happening. Every single time I bring up China in one of my videos, you're like, oh, this. You know, like, this Communist. It's like, it's every.

[Clint]

Bro, have you seen China lately? They're living in the Future. They're like 50 years ahead of us in some places. It's unreal.

[Pavel]

Yeah, they're. They're also under a severe population decline. So it goes kind of both ways.

[Clint]

I'm not saying that China's like, they're the example we all need to follow. I am just saying, though, that they have heavily invested in their own infrastructure, and they've manufactured, they've. They've modernized their manufacturing base to the point that it's the envy of the world. They're the factory of the world.

[Pavel]

It's Blade Runner 2049 over there, right?

[Xander]

And they got grays walking the streets,

[Clint]

and they've managed to, you know, not get involved in a ton of wasteful conflicts that just squander national resources. So you've got a civilization that, from the vantage point of an nhi, who is not subject to our own internal propaganda about who's good and who's bad and why. And all this. Someone just watching from a distance might look at China and go, there's a billion people there. They're mostly more or less homogenous in that general sense. Maybe we'll deal with them. I mean, what does it necessarily have to be America? Why does it have to be America? It doesn't have to be. And I would suggest that if we're seeing any kind of disclosure at all, it's not disclosure for the sake of disclosing to us. It's disclosure for the sake of.

[Andy]

Of.

[Clint]

Oh, yeah, positioning technology in a way that they can profit from it.

[Pavel]

So. So if there was ever.

[Clint]

That's why it's being done this way,

[Pavel]

I think, Clint, if there was ever a proverbial table of disclosure between countries and all the superpowers sat down. If I'm either China or Russia, I mean, how old is the U.S. it's 250 years last week.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Happy birthday.

[Pavel]

Happy birthday. But out of those 250 years, less than. A little less than 20 years, the US has been at peace or hasn't been at war. So why would other countries or superpowers listen to what the US has to say about anything, really, when all they've done is program their people for war the entire time, care only about expanding their dominion over other countries all the time. Why would other countries listen to what they have to say?

[Clint]

I'm with you 100 and, and it's,

[Pavel]

it's really, it's, it's a little bit frustrating that when you see a film like the Age of Disclosure, when I started looking at the trailers and saw John Brennan there and James Clapper there, I was like, are you kidding? And it's, this is the underlying problem that we have right now. Because, and, and I'm gonna say something positive that about the event because I thought that the final part of it was the meat of the event. The fact that Disclosure foundation is supporting like specifically Vanguard and Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland, Jeff Nicidelli and whistleblowers. That was a great way to end the entire thing. And Matthew Brown's words were very, very significant. But you can't really. What I judge people in this, in this topic by is not just what they say or they report on, especially when it comes to media and people involved in this that are trying to put this out. I also judge them by what they, they stay quiet about. And there's a lot of people within that movement that haven't even mentioned Dylan Borland or Matthew Brown. They don't acknowledge them and that there's a reason for that because there's already a plan. I do not believe by any means that they put together a seven and a half hour presentation if they didn't already have some kind of deal already done or announcement prepared.

[Clint]

That's right.

[Pavel]

We're getting close to Roswell's anniversary. So you know what? I don't, I don't understand why. Well, I do. They're trying to cover up crimes, essentially. That's, that's what I think they're, they're essentially doing. And if they do go the road that I thought, I think they're going after this event, especially when I saw those awards and all that stuff. I think that's going to be a mistake. I don't. And, and I, I think that a lot of people are not going to support that. And you could see it in the comments and like it's not positive or negative, man. It's about just learning how to read the room.

[Clint]

Do you mean it's just, it's in poor taste to be giving out awards in any way for any of this. This is about information.

[Pavel]

The award is not the Important part, the award was like a symptom of a much bigger thing that's going on, which is we're gonna do this this way, the controlled way, and the people who have been involved in this, who either have some questionable things that need to be questioned or answered to, they're still involved and that's what you're getting. And, and people who are disagreeing with that, some of them, they think or they understand that they're going to probably have to play ball. The only like out that I see that is positive here is if Trump does issue that executive order, which, by the way, I heard that it's already drafted for whistleblower protections. If that happens and the whistleblower protections are good for the whistleblowers, that can change things, that can do something, it's going to be a net positive. But if they don't do that and they go the dopser controlled way and they still include people who have. We already know that they're not fully in it for what, the right reasons, I would guess. I mean, I don't think it's going to get full support at all. And I'm, I'm not going to support that.

[Clint]

Wait, back up a second. You're saying that the disclosure that we're going to get, based on what you're seeing from the people that are, that are presenting the public face of this, the disclosure that's incoming inbound is not, it's not going to be full disclosure. It's going to be very controlled and very leveraged for a particular group of people.

[Pavel]

We've been talking, we've been talking about this for, yeah, years now. And it feels like it's 2017 again, bro.

[Clint]

But is that surprising? Does that surprise anybody here?

[Andy]

I don't, no.

[Clint]

But what?

[Andy]

None of us know what full disclosure would look like. Yeah, because you're never going to know if everything is the full disclosure.

[Pavel]

All I, all I complain about is them not going after the people who committed crimes. And I understand that truth and reconciliation stuff. I understand that full amnesty for people who committed crimes is something that they are pursuing. I get it. But like, at least you can make those crimes public and the people who committed them public. They're going to get away with it anyway, I think. Why would you, why would you cover it like that?

[Clint]

Go ahead, Xander, what were you gonna say?

[Xander]

I think right now they've got full amnesty because they're not talking. So right now they're not facing judgment for any crimes because the conversation is stuck. Because they, they will not talk. So if we can. And, and we were talking a little bit in, in this same vein before we went live is do we think that let's call it a partial disclosure? Because you, I think Clint, you said, what kind of disclosure might we get? Maybe we'll get some sort of, some sort of part or partial disclosure. We'll get some basic truths without, with, with certain negations to the, the last 80 years of COVID up and how you achieve an 80 year long cover up and things like that. We may, we may see people, you know, take a victory lap who a lot, a large portion of the UFO community might, might think those guys should not be taking a victory lap because we know that we, we cannot, we, we've not trusted them for years. We might, that might be the case. But what we were saying before we went live, Clint is right. Yeah. As I said, right now everyone, everyone has amnesty because they're all just operating under the guise of secrecy. So like, let's move the conversation as far forward as it can go. And, and as you said, Andy, what does full disclosure look like? Who knows? But we aren't just going to get there overnight, it looks like. So let's just kind of, let's just see what the next thing is.

[Clint]

Well, there's re.

[Xander]

Re. Establish where we are and then work from there.

[Clint]

And there's also the question of like this. These could be just separate issues. There's the law enforcement issue and the congressional oversight issue, which, you know, there's gonna have to be dealt with probably entirely separately from the actual process of disclosing the information. Right. And like, and if you're in the position of someone, a gatekeeper holding information, you are smart enough to know, especially if you're high up in the intelligence community, what you're sitting on and how much it's worth to somebody. So you're not gonna walk into a negotiation and just give up the goods. You're gonna go in and you're gonna leverage those and you're gonna say, look, this is what I want. I want immunity from everything. I want fucking 10 million bucks a year. I want, you know what I want? I want a different set of working arrangements. I want to be on the board of the foundation that's going to. I want you to set up a foundation and put me on the board and I want you to pay me every year for the rest of my life to be an advisor to your thing. And if you do that, then we'll talk about what I know. I think that's what? It's that. And that's the part we don't see that's happening behind closed doors. And then in the public eye, we see something like this event, and they're now, okay, we're going to give each other an award and we're going to set up this foundation, because 10 years from now, that foundation will be getting, you know, massive donations. There'll be much more going on with it, and you'll be on the board.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Think about it.

[Clint]

We can put you in a sweet spot before all this comes out.

[Andy]

So you've put that really well and you've made the point about amnesty and why people would want amnesty and what they would want before they spilled their guts and said what they know. So these are all shadowy figures right now, for the most part, who are in the background that we don't know. And to Pavel's point, some of which may have committed terrible crimes or been part of terrible things. Does that mean all the folks currently out there in the public for months and or years don't actually know that much? Because why would they need amnesty? And does that mean actually put off Davis Semivan, Louis Elizondo, Chris Mellon? They can't just come out and say what they know. And that's not disclosure, because why would they need amnesty?

[Clint]

Okay, so you're saying what if the people who are already speaking publicly, they. Because they don't have amnesty, when they're talking, they might not know as much as they claim, Is that what you're saying?

[Andy]

Well, to the point, we're saying that all these folks we keep talking about, folks in the background, need amnesty potentially to come forward and tell us what they know. Because that'll be like a disclosure process. Are the people already in the field not able to do that? Because we're presuming that none of them have done the bad things that have.

[Xander]

I'm not presuming that.

[Clint]

I don't know. I don't know that those two things are, like, mutually exclusive. I think what you're seeing is it's. It's one of. It's. It's case by case, these guys. It's like, who. Who's this guy? Well, he was a, you know, he's a general who was in charge of this research program, and he knows all about it and he knows what's going on and who the contractors are. And this is the deal he wants to make. He wants that. He wants this. I mean, I think it's like you're dealing with this guy. What is he Sitting on how much is it worth to you? What are you willing to give up to get it? What kind of deal? And then will he flip on anybody? You know, part of this is you're kind of dismantling a criminal organization. But another part of it is they are also trying to get out from under this, this thing. They want to come out and get public with this because that's where the real money is anyway. It would be, wouldn't it be nice to not have to be in the COVID up anymore and just go make billions of dollars on this technology? How cool would that be? So I think what you're seeing is not an either or situation. You're just seeing deals that are being made. But we're not seeing the deal, we're just seeing the result of the deal play out later. And then in the background, maybe this just looks like, look, one bill, give blanket amnesty and then all these guys walk and we get to commercialize the technology. And you know you're going to make money off.

[Andy]

That's fair, right? But what's what still gets me then? And this is probably stuff I'm just really thinking just now

[Clint]

are the people

[Andy]

that are already out in the open, if they all came together at the Clint Weldon Forum 2026 in December at one big table and they, yeah, get your tickets, award ceremony will be after the show and they all said what they know everything, would that not be enough for disclosure? And this is the point around what's what. Disclosure. We don't know what we don't know. We don't even know who we don't know. And this is what I'm really confused about, what we are relying on. It sounds like as from Xander's point, people coming forward and saying, I've done some terrible, by the way, but I can tell you about aliens. I just can't see that happening regardless,

[Clint]

because that's what we're relying on. That's what we're relying. See, I'm, I'm. Don't forget about the UFO community. Forget about all these podcasts and everything we're doing. Just forget about all that and just put yourself watching.

[Andy]

Yeah, everyone come off the stream.

[Clint]

These are just guys inside the program who are like, I want out and I want to be able to live a normal life and I want to make money and I want to tell you what I know, but I need some, I need walking papers to do that. And that's just the simple fact. And I don't give a lot about disclosing aliens to the world or what people think about it. I think a lot of it is, is that. I'm not saying that you're. You're. You're wrong, but I'm just like. I think that's how I would answer it. I don't know.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

My fellow Americans, this July, we're celebrating America's birthday at Moto Casino by giving away 1,776,000 in prize. And one lucky winner is gonna take home 1 million sc. Happy 250th birthday, America. You're welcome. Download Motocasino today. Download the Motocasino app today. Moto Casino is a social casino. Prohibited. No purchase necessary.

[Xander]

Visit Moto Us for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Casino America Social Casino.

[Andy]

I just don't know who. Who we need what this whole thing about disclosure, then. So who do we actually need to come Forward? Is it 100 people? Is it five? Is it one? Does. Does Trump coming out and saying, listen, I've been briefed now, and ETS are real. We've got something integrating with us on this planet. Over the next coming months and years, we're going to give you some real information that's going to change the world. But right now, that's. Is that not disclosure, or are we still going to then need people to come forward to say, I worked on a craft and see whenever Pavel and people like Pavel who are very keen on the. The criminal side of this being brought to justice. Right, Because I'm not necessarily totally chasing after that because of the bigger picture, but I get the moral side of it. If. If we don't get that, does it really make a difference to what ultimately comes out? I don't think you would care, Clint. I get the impression you would be happy with the truth, and if everyone gets away with it, fine.

[Pavel]

I don't think that would be.

[Clint]

It's the history of our world, though. It's like. Like our war crimes are war crimes, but our space program exists because we brought Nazis over and they built it for us. That's why we have a space program. You know, that's what I love that.

[Xander]

I love the way you just described that.

[Clint]

Like, that's. That is. That is who it. That's who built it. So, you know, do you want to go back and litigate, relitigate all of the crimes that those people were responsible for? Now, I'm not saying that morally it's not disgusting and horrifying that that's what happened. That's the way the United States works. This country was founded on a genocide. We first came here and we killed every single person across from one side to the other and took over the whole. As a matter of fact, Hitler was impressed with the way the Americans killed off the American Indians, the indigenous people here. And when he was trying to figure out how extreme the Nazis should be, they actually dialed it back from what we did. Now, that's not me being an apologist for Nazis. I'm just saying that you can look this up. This is a historical fact that one of the things that they admired about how America did business is the way that America basically cleaned out the indigenous people. Now, I'm not saying no, but that's.

[Pavel]

That's not far behind.

[Clint]

It's not the point.

[Xander]

No, no, absolutely.

[Clint]

Well, colonialism and, like, all that stuff is beside the point in this particular issue here. But I'm just saying, like, that's who you're dealing with. What you're gonna get is probably gonna look a lot like what you've seen in the past. A partial truth mixed in with some lies. And it's going to benefit a very small group of people in a huge way. And then we'll go on and we'll still have questions, but we'll also have some answers, but probably a lot more questions.

[Xander]

So that's.

[Clint]

And I think that's it. The only disclosure that's going to be fit. That's going to fit what this group really wants is with if the Independence

[Xander]

Day shifts, a catastrophe to happen.

[Andy]

Before I forget this, two things. I am watching the World War II documentary with Tom Hanks just now, which is brilliant on sky history. I'm 10 episodes in. So you are right, Clint, what you said. But also it's sort of relevant to this. History is written by the winners. So all the allies done some terrible, terrible things. We don't hear about a lot of them because we won. So again, that's the same with this whole disclosure thing. Same with if someone came forward and said, my group has managed to cure name any major disease. Right. I hate naming stuff because people will be suffering from various things watching and listening to this, and best of luck to them. But if someone came forward and went, my group has managed to cure, insert disease, insert illness here. But we've done some terrible things along the way to get to this point. Do you care. Do your family care who are going to get cured? Not necessarily. And I think 99.9%. And this is. I've said this before, so people new or might not have heard me say this, but it will be the same for the general public that 99.9999 of people will not care about historical crimes committed by people who covered this up. They will care that UFOs are real, aliens are real, whatever that entails. And we go from there.

[Pavel]

Crimes are still being committed right now. That's my point. It's not about.

[Xander]

I still don't think they'll care if. If the standard of living improves.

[Pavel]

That's my problem.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Yeah.

[Xander]

Yeah. No, no. I don't think it's exclusive. Your problem. I don't think it's a problem because you disagree with it morally. I also disagree with it morally. It's just that when you. I'm sitting here in a lovely comfy studio with wonderful lighting, like, I have no problems right now. And there are people that. That don't give a. How their problems get solved as long as they get solved. And I can fully sympathize with that. Like, I get it. There was. There was a time in my life I ate ketchup, like for dinner.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Like.

[Xander]

Like there was. At that point, I probably would have.

[Andy]

This is why.

[Pavel]

This is why a clapper essentially got away with spying on Americans because most Americans didn't give a. About that.

[Andy]

People.

[Clint]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy]

See and hear horrible things and go, huh.

[Clint]

All the Epstein people are still walking around. We know who they are. None of them are in jail. Like, what. That we were gonna burn down the world? Remember how big a deal Epstein was? It was gonna burn it all. They armed gangs went into the United States Capitol building and tried to, like, kidnap members of Congress and hang them outside over the Epstein thing. Like, that's how bad it was. And here we are. I'm just saying, like, I. I think the. The question about disclosure is not the qu. Is not the conversation that these people are really having. They're having a different conversation. It's how do I get out? How do I get mine? What's in it for me? And if you get the disclosure out of it, that's great, but that's. It's not the top priority. This is about just rearranging the game board so these people can be more comfortable on it. And I think that has something to do with the fact that they're being forced to do it, but we don't know.

[Xander]

Yeah.

[Andy]

What's the world going to look like going forward? And how can I come out ahead of the pack?

[Xander]

And a good question from that is, do we want the world to look the same? Not necessarily technologically. I do believe there isn't really much of A way you can share a lot of the disclosure truths without us having some sort of technological leap in some way. Whether or not we actually pay for it as citizens is another thing. I don't know.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

But

[Xander]

I tend to agree with you particularly on the track that we're on. But what was I saying? The, the, what was I saying?

[Andy]

I can't remember now they're coming out of the, the old world into new world.

[Xander]

Do we want, yeah, thank you. Do we want that same ethos to, to continue? Like at some point are we gonna say, you know, I don't think it's cool that you're, you're gonna continue to charge me insane prices for something that now costs you far less to produce and far less effort. Like so it all comes down to a very human like time and, and effort versus output.

[Clint]

I don't think it's about us. The more I think about this man, I don't think it's about us and what we pay. I don't think they give a shit what we pay. It's about what Apple pays, what Nvidia pays, what Google pays, what you know, Open Air Palantir pays. It's about the re. Organization of society from a ground up level or from a top down. I guess in this, in this case, if you're looking out at the next hundred years, you're looking at a world that is probably going to be post technological singularity. It'll probably make thousands of years of technological progress over the next course, the course of the next century. How we come out at the other end of this is going to look drastically different than the way we go in right now. And I think that the smart money is getting prepared for that. And I think that's why you see people, people like Peter Thiel and other tech CEO billionaires, Elon, talk about this whole concept of the network state, how they're going to exist in a post politics world where they can just be citizens of wherever is Stan and go and come as they please.

[Xander]

And what would piss me off, what would piss me off is if the world didn't look dramatically different as a result of that change. That's a really big issue for me

[Pavel]

personally and I think because they are refusing to acknowledge that the paradigm needs to change, the world is going to stay the same even if disclosure happens, but they're still going to be, there's

[Clint]

still going to be because people will be the same.

[Pavel]

This disparaging, like you know, like in Brazil, in Real de Janeiro, you can see the favelas and the fucking huge buildings right next to them. That's what's going to keep happening.

[Xander]

Yeah. Are you going to go to people

[Andy]

in Africa who live in Johannesburg and slums and hand them little boxes that give them infinite electricity and they're going to go, I can't feed my kids. What the is this again? There's this thing about the west and people like, who live comfortably. Oh, we'll get flying cars and free electricity. No, we won't. Like, but in terms of a whole world, how does that affect everyone, the way people live? You've got kids starving and being slaughtered. I had this conversation with Danny Sheehan some time ago and I don't know how deep you guys want to get. I could do that shit for hours.

[Clint]

Oh, go for it.

[Pavel]

Yeah.

[Andy]

You've got kids on a daily basis, babies being macheted to death because of where they were born or a name or a book their parents read, which is insanity across the globe, no matter what religion you follow.

[Pavel]

Right?

[Andy]

Unbelievable insanity. You're going to tell me disclosure happens and this is for people genuinely who think this and the the wide new world, the next day these guys put down their blades and machine guns and stop shooting and stabbing kids. Oh, we've got aliens now. Do you know what time to stop this? No, that's still going to happen. That's Pavel's point. The world's not going to change the people in like Brazil. You've got kids running about barefoot in Brazil because our parents can't afford shoes for them all of a sudden, is it like, we've got free electricity, folks? The aliens have given us that. And also to Xander's point, this is just a what if. And I thrive on what ifs, right? This assumption that free energy is cheap and easy and clean. What if it's not? What if it's one thing to put a power source inside of a craft? What if it's another thing to give 8 billion people electricity from a source? What if it's not just as simple as all of this? And I imagine there would be shadowy government figures, some of those people we are talking about before, who might hear me say that and go, yeah, that's part of the problem. Everything's not going to change overnight. How do you decide who gets and who doesn't? There will be manufacturing, there will be waiting lists. You know, you can get a 32 inch TV now for like a hundred pounds in the UK, probably a hundred dollars in the US like a cheap make. Okay? But it's a 32 inch TV. When those first came out, they were like 10,000 pounds and it was like the peak of technology. Now you would look at it and if you walked over and broke it, I'll buy another one. Like things, things are just. Our society is just not set up for. Everything will be great, everything will be brilliant.

[Clint]

I'm with you. People will be the same and we will. It'll be more like District 9 than anything else. District 9 and Elysium is what you're going to have. You're going to have a world where the tech, this is the tech oligarchy that you see in place right now is the one that wants UFO technology. That's what they're after. And if you get it, if they get it, you're going to have a guy like Peter Thiel with that level of power, or Elon Musk with that level of power. Someone like that. Maybe not that exact as if he needed more. Right. And that's who's going to have it. What are they going to do with it? Well, they're going to first power their data centers and then they're going to power their factories. And the data centers are going to run the AI and the AI is going to run on the humanoid robot army that takes over the entire economy and vertically integrates it all the way. And then you've eliminated the need for people. We become this sort of second class, you know, citizen in our own world. And the tech elite can do whatever they want. And I think that that's, that's how they are looking at it. That's where they're looking towards. That's why they're building bunkers and they're building these fortresses and they've got, you know, these just bizarre conferences that they hold all over the world and weird meetings. They get together. They're thinking about a future where we're just not that significant and they don't need us. And I think that in that world, like whatever we do, if the technology makes it down to the common person in any way, it would be something like they build a power source in some city somewhere and they have a water desalination plant that's running off of that and they're able to provide clean water to people, but they're not going to give you the box that powers your life for free. Does that make sense?

[Andy]

Yeah. But even then, what if Disclosure, they can work out. Richard Dolan and Bryce Abel famously written up, wrote a book called Ad After Disclosure, folks. Bryce never mentions he co authored it. It's a joke for a lot of folks who will know what I mean. However, what if the people who genuinely know about the truth know that what they can disclose will they can map out around a week or a month at most. What if from that point they don't know? What if disclosure begins a chain of events? And I could sort of. And clinches. Clinch is coming back. What if disclosure starts a chain of events that they can't predict and they don't know where it will go? So once the people know one NHI exists and that entity which is in touch with is, they act on that and it could be good, it could be right. Let's let them know we're here. What if that then just opens things up to other entities which are out there or are sitting, standing by? And we talked about this a little bit on the last show I was on around the Zoo hypothesis or the simulation hypothesis. What if it just starts a chain of events that the folks in charge right now, and this is a little bit of almost justifying perhaps why they've kept this covered up. What if there are reasons where they're like, we don't quite know what happens next. We know we know Phase One, but we don't know what happens after that. We literally can't control what comes next. And that might not be a good thing because it just opens up. We go Star Trek, Next Generation, or we go Full Independence Day.

[Xander]

So with that in mind, from that perspective, how do you do disclosure? How do you frame it so that the people don't ask those questions? Or at least not enough people ask those questions?

[Andy]

I think you do it over time. I've said this before, you, you go five or 10 years, you have the James Webb Telescope, find something really far away, really far away. And within six months to a year, you keep people scientifically up to date via podcasts, the Internet, various forms of social media, big platforms, regular updates, monthly news conferences. You then confirm within a year's time we have techno signatures or we have we'll find pollution on another planet. Then that gets folk going, huh? We think there might be something there. We're going to send off probes. It's going to take years to get there, maybe even decades, maybe centuries. We'll all be dead. But we think we've found life. We're going to keep looking elsewhere. That opens up the public perception too. There is something else out there and it's really far away, but maybe that means something else is closer. And then you work back to, we'll Find something closer. Oops. Actually, we've found something on the moons of this planet. Oops. Actually, something has been visiting. And you slowly acclimatize people to the idea.

[Xander]

So can I tell you, I think you're exactly right. I think that is exactly right.

[Andy]

Can I record that for my wife to hear that?

[Xander]

Just, she'd be like, say, I.

[Andy]

Thanks, Clint.

[Clint]

You get it? It's all yours. Oh, man. I, yeah, they, they could also send a signal or we could stage it. Like we got a signal or, you know, we could, we could, you know, I'm, I'm like, I like that slow process. But what if it is about. Before we went live, there was a really lively conversation between you guys about the threat, the possibility of there being a threat. What do you think about that? Can we talk about that again? You guys were going back and forth on this about the national security state, sort of preparing the public for something that may or may not be coming.

[Xander]

Well, I thought I made it clear with my very ambiguous. I think you're exactly right.

[Andy]

My wife just texted me, said, I heard that. She must be listening. Pavel, I think you were desperate to come in on that.

[Pavel]

No, I, I wanted to just like, I kind of lost the train of thought of what I was going to say. Let's focus on the threat and I'll remember. Sorry,

[Xander]

I guess, I guess so. So from a starting point, I, I, I do come from the Love and Light society, like I started there, but it has since evolved to the point where.

[Pavel]

Oh

[Xander]

yeah, at the end of the day, I think there's just as much, let's put it this way, in context of the last points we were just making, I think there's just as much chance as us making up a threat than there is being a real threat. I think that's probably a fair thing to say from my point of view.

[Clint]

And I guess the question is, how do you define threat? You know, what is it? I think, Andy, you had a really nice sort of broad definition.

[Xander]

That's.

[Clint]

Yeah, the cake, please.

[Andy]

So I said that if you had a cake shop with 100 members of staff and it was really well known and really successful, and down the street another shop was going to open with a big sign outside with no name, but just vaguely suggested it was going to sell sweet treats, pastries and all your favorite snacks to you, that is a threat. That is a threat to your immediate future, your staff, your livelihood, your business. It doesn't mean it's not going to be healthy competition or in the long run, turn out to be a good thing. Maybe it works out well. Maybe they don't sell exactly the same things as you. But what if they are bigger, better resourced, better staffed? What if their stuff tastes better? That puts you out of business. You don't feed your kids anymore. You pay off all your staff. You no longer have a cake shop. Now, did that entity, let's just now call it an entity, mean to threaten you? Did it mean to put you out of business? Did it mean to affect your whole family? No, but there's a consequence. And then in hindsight, you look back and go, that was a threat. I should have acted differently. So what if this whole situation, this cover up, this phenomenon, is being viewed by some folks in the military industrial complex, private entities, aerospace, as a threat? Because there are so many unknown elements and there's an assumption on a lot of our parts, I'm speaking generally here, that they know, quote, unquote, the government knows. And what if they don't know? And this isn't me making this up, this is quite common thinking now. What if they don't know that much? What if they're not entirely sure? And I made that point earlier about what if disclosure. They know so much, it's like a goosebumps. Choose your own ending. Where? Now turn to page 12. Now turn to page 37. Now go back to page six. Oh, wait, you're dead. What if they literally have a goosebumps. Choose your own ending book and half the pages are missing because they're like, we don't know the rest of this yet. We don't know how it will go. So we can keep you safe now. Yeah, but at a certain point, we can no longer keep you safe. And then you all go, I wish I'd taken the blue pill. I wish I'd went back to bed. I wish I hadn't gone down the rabbit hole. And we all wanted to know and then it turns out actually maybe we didn't. Because the only thing keeping us, quote, unquote, safe or content or in this bubble is not knowing who gives countries

[Pavel]

the right to classify reality? Just answer me.

[Andy]

That's, that's, that's a fun statement, right? But we don't know technically what it means.

[Pavel]

You don't?

[Andy]

No.

[Clint]

You don't think that.

[Pavel]

You don't think. You don't think that humans, as humans as a population at least deserve to know what's going on and people are hiding it from people.

[Andy]

But we don't know.

[Xander]

This is where the conversation was before we went live Is that. Do we think that it's a threat based on intent on the part of nhi or that the technique, technology, that that is a result of the truth being shared? That's what you're saying, Pavel? Is that it? Like, do we not have a right to know? Well, as Andy pointed out earlier, how much disclosure can be shared before more questions are asked? And that's why I said, like, how do you control disclosure? How do you get people to stop immediately? How do you get them to say, please save US government? That's the main thing. Because right now most people on Earth would welcome some sort of invasion by looking at online polls and stuff. They just want them to get here so that they can stop feeling oppressed by their own species. Yeah, but the, the real question is, is it. Do we treat it. Is it appropriate to treat it as a threat because of the. On the intent of the nhi, or is it appropriate that we treat it as a threat because if that truth, the fundamental truth, is shared with the rest of humanity, then is that more of a threat? Because that power would eventually be placed into the hands of humanity? That's the big problem. Because even with, let's. Let's say this technology completely absolves humanity of, of any scarcity and produces abundance at a low cost, at least. Does religion stop?

[Pavel]

Does.

[Xander]

Does religious dogma stop? Do people then take that new power and say, well, my God told me to manipulate the gravity over your capital city and do they get that?

[Andy]

I know this is just one thing you mentioned, but this is part of the issue I have. We have an abundance of everything already. We have too much of everything. But it just.

[Xander]

We don't know how to do it.

[Andy]

Such a small percentage of people, like, we could solve world hunger and all that kind of stuff. The top 1% could do that. The top 20%, the top 50% could get together and solve all the problems, but they don't. So what would? A new technology or a new truth. And that's where I love the phrasing of reality is classified. When Matthew Brown brought that up, it means a lot of different things, again, to different people. The same as what is disclosure? Because reality is classified to a lot of people. I think that we actually mean aliens are real. It means it's much bigger than that. But it's one of those phrases that does. Do the kids in the slums and the favelas care about reality being classified? Does a mother who's trying to keep her kids alive for another day, again, not to get all Jordan, I don't

[Pavel]

think, I don't think that what's hidden about reality just has to do with aliens. Not even a chance, not even a little bit. Like that's just one of many things that have been hidden throughout history. It's ancient history, it's physics, it's like a lot of different things. And everybody has their own reality, right? And everybody has something that is hidden from them. And yeah, of course favela kids are not going to give a about that. They're going to give a about what they have to eat the next day. And the disparity between them and another kid from one of those buildings, you know, that's what they're going to care about.

[Xander]

So I think. Sorry, Pavel, finish it.

[Pavel]

But for me it's, I don't know, it's just pretty simple. If there is meaningful change in the quote, unquote, more advanced world in this, on Earth, I think that eventually there's going to be changes in the other places like those favelas, but it's going to be gradual, it's not going to be overnight as many people think. But yeah. What were you going to say, Sandra?

[Xander]

I was going to say. So this just goes back to the original point we were saying before we went live and I'm really sorry that nobody was there to really watch this, but we were basically saying that what's the reason, reason for the national security? Is it outside threat or internal threat? Threat? Like what? Where does the danger really come from? I think we could all agree there's, there's reasonable grounds that there would be a danger somewhere. Unless it's for pure greed and, and power. There is probably an issue with, with divulging the truth of things because it would place power into a place that doesn't quite know how to deal with it right now. So right now, yes, on Earth we, we have the ability to provide abundance for everybody on planet Earth, but we simply, there's a management problem, we don't know how to deal with it. There are things like greed and there's distribution problems and things like that. Why I said before we went live that I believe that the prob. The fundamental problem is that the power that we're going to potentially be dealing with is just so far advanced that the distribution problem gets put aside and it becomes the, the equivalent of say a four year old on a bad day being given the button to a nuclear bomb being detonated. This is the, there's a huge power problem here that if the truth gets out and the questions are allowed to be asked and the technologies are allowed to be developed with AI being able to also interpret half of the shit that we put online? As a result, how long is it going to be before a terrorist organization or just another country that we don't necessarily agree with gets their hands on technology capable of completely obliterating an entire country within a second? And I'm not just talking about nuclear weapons because we control those reasonably well right now. But what if the technology is so important that it simply has to be integrated throughout society? Otherwise we'd see it as a great injustice. Zero point energy being an example. So this is, this is where, I mean, I do believe there is a threat, but where is it more likely to preside? Is it like more likely to preside in the NHI that already allegedly have control of this technology? Or is it in the idea that it might, might get into to population's hands?

[Andy]

So as a civilization, are we just not ready?

[Clint]

Yes, I think we'd do it. We'll do it anyway. Even ready or not, we're already doing it. I mean, look at what's happening with AI right now.

[Pavel]

People get pregnant when they're not ready. And I mean, they become good parents eventually, right?

[Xander]

Not without mistakes, my friend.

[Clint]

This story is less than a week old. It has been argued, and I think argued well, that advanced frontier model AI is as dangerous as nuclear weapons. And especially AI that is recursively self improving when you get to a runaway intelligence explosion is going to be a completely unpredictable beast that no one is prepared for. But somehow we're all racing to develop and there is almost no federal regulation in place, practically none to regulate this industry. And we're putting this shit out into the world and we're just rolling the dice every single day. And a couple of days ago, a couple weeks ago, and we talked about it, Xander. Mythos came out Anthropics Mythos was released and within a few hours it was able to crack through every classified US system there is. And they pulled it immediately. And it was fable. I think on, on the Claude app. I forget what the civilian facing model was, but this is.

[Xander]

Yeah, it was called Fable.

[Clint]

Yeah, it's a fable. And they had to pull it within an hour of it being put out there. And so it was pulled. And then a few days later, China announced that they had found or discovered a tool that is at least as good as Mythos. So why would we think if this is what we're willing to do with. We already have killbots, we already have a Skynet. Worse than that. We have many skynets and we have various different levels of skynets. Plus we have a lot of different kinds of killbots. Plus we have nuclear weapons. And we don't have any problem putting all this stuff in the same soup together. So I don't see any, I think AI technology and NHI technology are going to be treated more or less the same. Super advanced, super cool. What can it do for us?

[Xander]

Evidently we do have a problem distributing that power right now. Yeah. Because that, that has already been pulled and so it's kind of proving the point.

[Clint]

But you can't pull it forever. I mean, absolutely not. Someone else will do it.

[Xander]

And, and is this, this is why I said last, I think it was last week I said, is this what Jacques Vallee called the problem? Is this why this must happen now? Because there's simply no stopping it at this point. You get an AI superintelligence if it's able to iterate on the, on the scale that that logic dictates it might be able to do, then are we just going to bypass all of these recovery programs that have so far for decades been so siloed that they've actually stifled their own progress. So at some point is, is, is open source material going to be able to bypass past them? So do they get out ahead of it? Create the, the security state in which that we can't access tools like Fable and, and the ones just eve only two or three years down the line. Imagine what they could do.

[Clint]

Yeah. I mean five, six years from now when, when Mythos or something like it can run on your phone.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Hi, Uncle Laser here. America's built on fast cars, fast food and even faster women. Photo casino is built in America. Bit you know what they're fast at? Fast cash prize redemption. You see, only Moto is us Own and operate Moto. It's American made. That's who we are and that's who we care about. Play for free at Moto US Moto Casinos. The social casino board. We're prohibited.

[Xander]

No purchase necessary. Visit Moto US for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Must be 21/ Moto Casino America Social Casino.

[Clint]

And you know what the next frontier model of that period is going to be able to do? I think that they're in a no win situation. I think that sooner or later the game, the game board is inherently unstable. The game is inherently unstable and unwinnable. At some point someone's going to move. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma setup where you have all these different nation state Players and all these different private contractor players. And sooner or later someone is going to just move. You can't count on it being a static system. So what would you do? You would put yourself in a position so that if and when it did happen, you were in a position to not only profit from it, but also to leverage it for other reasons, other possible outcomes. And maybe if you knew that there was no way out anyway and sooner or later the technology was going to get out, the secret was going to be out, and after that, if it's completely unpredictable what humanity does next, maybe the best move is to get it out sooner rather than later, under controlled conditions, as best as you possibly can. And then you get the funding you need to fully develop the mature technology and then you get the fuck out of here and you set up shop someplace else. But you get us to a point where we have, while we have the industrial base intact and the metallurgy and the artificial intelligence and the data centers to run the society that is capable of producing ARVs at scale. Say maybe we just buy ourselves 50 years to do that and that gives us enough time to get off planet, go someplace else. So that if and when this planet self destructs, at least we're not a one planet species. I could see something like that happening. I mean, we just don't. It could also be something along the lines of like there is a threat and maybe we just. It is, as we've said before, we don't know what we don't know. So there's maybe there's four or five races we're familiar with and that's it. And there are many more. We have to build up our technology base to at least get to something close to their level or we risk extinction anyway. So maybe this is just the gambit.

[Xander]

I think what appears to be happening that the way disclosure must happen is that control doesn't be, it's not relinquished, it's increased. Because the simple problem is it is, as Andy pointed out, it's going to create questions. And they, I don't think they can stop us talking about something as simple as the meaning of life in the wake of information related to the disclosure, like partial disclosure. But they can, they can, they have successfully stopped the mainstream public from having access to nuclear secrets. That, those are, those are still, that is still a whole classified area of science right now. You can learn to, to do it, but you, you have to spend a lot of time and a lot of money to get there. And after that you are very much Controlled in what you can and can't say publicly even I think it was Eric Weinstein that said there are, there, there's areas of science he's literally not allowed to talk about because they, they relate to national security. So do they use that same model that the, the DOE adopted decades ago and allegedly DOE are a central part to this whole recovery program thing? Do they, do they see the perfect model in front of them right now and just apply it to this new technology and sort of shut down the public domain, which is the opposite of what we need as, as a species, that, that needs to be able to take advantage of the technology. And are we seeing the, the beginnings of that? And in my opinion, yes, because it appears that they, they simply have to shut down the level of control that we are heading towards.

[Clint]

And, and also say you are. Let's say for the sake of argument that Ross is right and Lockheed Martin did build the Tic Tac or at least can build Tic Tacs. Well, how many Tic Tacs can you build? 1? 2, 10?

[Xander]

Well, what if we, how many do you need?

[Clint]

How much do they cost? A hundred billion dollars a piece? $30 billion a piece? How long does it take to make one? Well, what if we opened up the floodgates and then we were able to get to that one and a half trillion dollar defense budget and what if we could allocate the funds to buy a bunch of those Tic Tacs? You know, I could. That's what you're, I think, you know, the questions about public safety are probably going to come after the questions about profit and shareholder value. If that, if that sounds familiar. It's just. Because that's just what we see.

[Xander]

Like I, I think there's also just as much chance of there being an overinflated defense budget. I think there's just as much chance as the truth dramatically reducing the need for that defense budget as there is for boosting it. Because if we're talking about world changing tech that may not require the lengths that we currently go to and all of the special materials and things like that, then it might be the case that the defense budget will, would actually be slashed in half or even less. I don't know, maybe that's, maybe that's nowhere.

[Clint]

I don't know, maybe that's their move is to make sure that doesn't happen and get out there in front of it. Make sure that you sell the uncertainty. Sell the uncertainty. Guys, it's a big universe out there. It's very dark, very Scary. And we know that we've met the first visitors. We know who they are and we know kind of what they're about. But we don't know much more than that. And what we do know is, isn't great. So guess what? We have to build up our defense base. We've got to modernize our military. We have to guess what. The Space force. Conveniently, we have a space force now. They're going to need stuff. Lockheed Martin turns out, has some expertise in this area. Maybe they could help.

[Xander]

And we have this science advisory board for the ODNI that, you know, they're going to look back at some old data and they're going to find some, some strange signal back in the seti. The old SETI printouts they're gonna find, because that's where they're gonna look. That's the kind of place that a science advisory board like that looks. They're not gonna go knocking on the doors in Congress. They're gonna go looking back at old data, which is fine to do, but you know, they're gonna find something there. It's, it's, it's. It sounds so conspiracy, conspiratorial, but I really do feel like it's just playing out exactly, exactly how you'd expect it to.

[Clint]

And I think that's because we're all jaded and we've seen it a million times now, and we're used to it. And now it's just sort of like once you. It's kind of like being young and naive and idealistic about things versus getting a little bit older and realizing that, you know, no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on or who you think is your hero, it's always more complicated. There are always so many other layers and levels to this thing, and it's just not that simple. And, and if one thing seems to be true more often than anything else, it's that rich and powerful people tend to make out like bandits while the rest of us are left holding the bag. And I imagine that especially in the face of a tragedy like a giant war, where you have a very small elite group of people sending a lot of young, poor people to go kill each other. Or finance, where you have a small group of financial elite that owns more wealth than everyone else on earth combined, or you have, you know, technology, whatever it is, you just see these concentrations of power and these people, you know, that's, that's, that's how decisions get made. And we, we see how it goes. I think the the more interesting question is it what happens when two civilizations come into open contact? Forget about the disclosure conversation for a second. If, if, whether or not who had what technology, when, and, and did somebody get, you know, amnesty for a crime they committed? Set that conversation to the side and just say what happens when you have open contact between two completely different civilizations on two completely different technological paradigms? Does the lesser advanced civilization, the less advanced civilization, survive contact with a superior civilization? Could we even withstand it? What would it even look like? I mean, the Nordics, let's say, and based on the rumors that we've heard, and this is just a cr. I know it's a crazy rumor. Sorry, Pavel, I'm going to shut up in a second. But the Nordics supposedly are only a few hundred years beyond us. 300, 250, something like that. That's conceivable that we could have a relationship with a civilization like that. That's my point. All right, I'll shut up.

[Pavel]

I mean, historically and, and I know this is an anthropomorphization of, of your example, but historically, when two civilizations with different technological advances have met, the less advanced is always obliterated. So you know, if, if we look at history, it's, it doesn't bode well for the less advanced. And if we presume that we are the less advanced than those others, you know. Yeah, but like, I don't know.

[Xander]

I think the question is, do you think we're being visited by an advanced alien civilization right now?

[Andy]

Well, advanced in what way though? Because Clint made, Clint mentioned earlier one of my favorite movies, District 9. We were visited in District 9 by a really advanced civilization, but they needed help because they were suffering from illness and lack of resources. They had a really cool craft and ship and some weapons, but I know it's a movie, but I love that concept of we still need help. You can offer us something and perhaps we could offer you. And look how that movie turns out. If people haven't seen it, they should go and watch it. But again, just because someone has a piece of technology and I don't know if we touched on this on the show, like I say I was on last time, but this is the stuff I love again, what if these civilizations visiting us, it's rogue elements of a society. What if it's an Elon musk type on another planet which has a small crew and they have passed off on a one off ship off into the solar system and the universe to explore and that's the one that civilization had,

[Pavel]

you're talking about the Anunnaki now, like essentially.

[Xander]

Right.

[Andy]

You can put labels on it. Right. But there's all these different, all these potentials. What if we've only ever been visited by etc. A handful of times in our whole history? Most of the stories are a handful of genuine ET And I say ET deliberately because it's not interdimensional, because that's something else. What if genuine planet to planet contact has happened very, very infrequently, which I think would be more likely than all these races have turned up to meet us.

[Xander]

Oh, I do think we've, we've probably dramatically overinflated the, the level of contact that we are receiving. And I also don't think it's a very, let's say, a dynamic spectrum of species that we're, that are being, that are visiting us. I think that whoever got to us first, if they've decided to stay around, that's pretty much the only guys that we're probably interacting with for whatever reason like that.

[Andy]

I think I've seen a percentage of ET right, Genuine planet to planet. I think there's a percentage of NHI drones that we're in contact with.

[Xander]

Yeah.

[Andy]

I. E. These Tic Tacs and things like that. I don't think there's anything inside of them. I then think you've got the interdimensional side of it is that the whole kind of manted being type stuff potentially. And then maybe you've got a little bit of something that used to be here before us. Maybe it's the Nordics and again it goes off the deep end. But maybe there's something to the whole Atlantis thing. Something happened, advanced civilization, they left the planet hundreds if not maybe a thousand years ago. And maybe some of them are on their way back, slash are here already, are already under the water and you've got a mix of things happening. And that's when a lot of these folks in the know come out and say this is a lot stranger and weirder than people would believe. So imagine having to sell that to the public. We've got some ET but it's not that often because of the distance etc, but some can travel. We've got drones that aren't human. We've got stuff that's coming from a non physical place that isn't here.

[Pavel]

The non corporeals.

[Andy]

Yeah. And then we've got some stuff that actually predates us. And that's where your lore from Atlantis and all that kind of stuff comes in. All this is at play, this is happening, but we don't know everything about everything. I think that's probably something along, along the right lines.

[Xander]

I agree with you. I do agree with you. I think it would almost be a little bit embarrassing for the US Government, especially specifically because that's just the most information we have right now. I think it'd be a little bit embarrassing for them to acknowledge some things, but also not have an answer for the vast majority of things that we already have the questions for. Like, I don't, I don't believe they can answer questions like where do humans come from? And like, what, what happens after death? And things like that. And these are questions we're already having as part of the expanded ufology narrative. Like we're asking all of these questions already and it might be quite mundane to the point where we might get a case of we don't know what's going on. And that's not going to wash as an answer, particularly in terms of national security.

[Andy]

I've always loved the idea, right? Imagine you get Trump brings the alien out on the White House lawn, the classic right idea. And we're talking and imagine Trump goes off script, like he never does, right? And he goes, you know his little gray here, we've got the saucer, you guys came in, you know, what about your triangles? And the little gray goes, oh, we don't have triangles. And he goes, oh, look here, we've got some pictures of them. And they go, oh, we've got no idea who those guys are. Again, these assumptions that a species turns up and they're going to be able to tell us everything about all the other species, they might come here and say, look, we found you guys like 30 years ago. It was actually the mid-90s. Nirvana was around. We thought that was cool. And we turned up and we've kind of been interacting a little bit at a distance, but yeah, we have. We found you like 30 years ago. Unlikely to happen given they wouldn't double our time and all that. But if that was the case, they don't know all these other entities. So again, that whole, I don't really buy into the whole Galactic Federation thing where there's a whole Star Trek civilization out there in our solar system and we are just that little planet sitting here, we're all going, is Earth ready yet? I don't think that's, that's the case at all.

[Clint]

I think it's probably a lot more dog eat dog and everybody for themselves. Different, you're gonna have different civilizations at different levels. Of advancement, some that are aggressive, some that are not, some that just keep to themselves, you know, all. Anything that you can imagine probably goes. The idea that it's all love and light or it's all, you know, total darkness, I think is, is a little naive. I think it's going to be a mixed bag. And I think that that argument has legs. If you're going to make a disclosure and you wanted to raise the military budget, that's your argument. And I don't think anybody's really going to push. How can you push back on that? Yeah, there's aliens, there's a bunch of stuff we don't know about them. We're going to need some more money. Who's going to say no? And if you did say. And what happens if you have a situation where we say we don't have the full picture, but then China comes out and she makes a statement. Well, China's in open contact with this group and we have already established diplomatic relations with them. And then it's suddenly this game of brinksmanship about who is telling the truth, who can actually back it up. What does that look like? How does that actually play out? What does open contact look? Does that look like an exchange program? Does that look like we send cameras to their planet to get footage of what it's like and it comes back, will we ever see that? You know, does it at the, on the ground level for the average person? Would we ever even get a glimpse into what those civilizations might look like in our lifetime?

[Xander]

If you wouldn't mind me just making one analogy as to the, the question of whether to, like what the ratio is of good and bad in the universe right now, when the universe, this is all theory, but it is scientific theory. One of the, the core theories about, you know, that explains why, why is there matter and not antimatter is the fact that at the moment of the big bang, they're just by some unexplained chance, there happened to be only a very small amount more matter than antimatter. They were created virtually equally, but because there was slightly more matter, matter ended up dominating the entire universe. I believe it's, I, I think it might be the same case for, let's call it galactic species, species that achieve this level of spread throughout the universe. I believe that by pure chance we may have got to a stage where a civilization that, that was morally responsible ended up dominating the vast majority of the universe. And as a result, they, they effectively stop any, let's say, species that aren't Ready, they might be quarantined in some way. For me, if we're talking about the, the level of technology that I believe might be at play, then that for me is the only way that this works. Because if even just a few civilizations get hold of this level of technology, then, then the universe is that Wild west and it's a case of we don't know what's really coming, coming at us. And we've been only extremely, extremely lucky so far that we haven't been destroyed already. And I, I think it's the opposite. I think it's by pure luck. The universe is just dominated by good, well intentioned and mature enough species to be able to handle that technology.

[Clint]

And even in that scenario, if that is the case, which it could very well be, it still doesn't mean that it's all safe out there and wonderful. You know, there can still be danger and there can be, you know, all kind, all kinds of things that it's known world there was. In the original incarnation of the Carl Sagan Cosmos series, he talked about contact with a more advanced civilization a number of times, various episodes, but there's one particular episode that jumps to mind and he hypothesized about what it would be like if we met a society that was slightly more advanced than us, but not terribly so, just enough that they could maybe give us an expanded understanding of the universe and what's going on in it and how to traverse it a little bit. But then embarking on a exploration program in partnership with this other group and I just thought it was such a cool idea and it echoed a lot of Star Trek stuff that I really like. But I imagine at some point if you're one of the top Graybeard sitting on all this information and you realize that in the grand scheme of things, sooner or later humanity must take its first steps into the stars as a mature species and we just have to start doing it. There's no easy way, there's no right way, there's just whatever happens and we either make it or we don't. But we're either going to make it or not anyway. So we might as well get this stuff out there and let the next generation of people start understanding it. Because sooner or later a group is going to have to take this over and represent Earth and we're going to have to decide what does it mean to be a human? Is it more than just being an American or a Russian or a, you know, whatever citizen of whatever country you're from? Is it just Enough to say we have a common point of origin. We all, we're all from Earth, we're all human psychologically. Would that be enough to maybe bring us together and unite us as a species? Or is it just going to be, you know, a messy future where we have this technology in it just keeps getting messier.

[Xander]

I think that's the. Probably one of the biggest problems right now. It's just the biggest, at least the biggest question. Because we don't, we genuinely don't know the answer to that. We don't know.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Andy]

All we have is like actual history already has shown that the only constant throughout human history has been war.

[Xander]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And fighting. And nothing so far has changed that. I don't see why this would.

[Xander]

So where's the threat? It's at least both of us if not just one sided. It's got to be at least what does humanity do with this technology if unleashed? And the fact that there may, well the universe may be so vast that malevolent species just sail right past us and don't give us. Because why would they. It's, it's like me walking past a bees nest. Like I might not want to chill with the bees but like I'd only, I'd only interact with them if they became a problem for me personally.

[Andy]

But Clint mentioned World War II earlier and you know, again I recommend the Tom Hanks documentary if folks are watching it. The US and the Brits and the Russians all got together along with many other countries and fought off the Nazis, the Japanese and, and the, the kind of smaller countries that we're against is how did the US and the Russians go on these days? They fought against a common enemy united for years that tried to exterminate them both. They're not friends. So even if we did put up a fight against an entity from somewhere else and one does the world all start singing Kumbaya on a monthly basis and get together and go. Actually let's put our differences aside. I don't think so.

[Clint]

Vote on doomerfriday.com doomerfriday.com Vote actually we should check the doom meter. I want to see what it's up to. But it's been quite doomy.

[Xander]

We're at five right now.

[Clint]

Oh, Doom factor five.

[Xander]

I'm battling my hardest against it but five isn't small. We've got a classified incident right now.

[Andy]

Here we go.

[Clint]

This is the doom meter. Doom. Doomerfriday.com vote. You can go there and escalate the doom. We're at Doom Factor 5, which is a yellow alert if you want to take it up. We have 17 votes in so far. I'm sorry, 83 votes to raise. I'm gonna go ahead and raise it and let's see if we can get it up to six.

[Pavel]

Can we release the word that is going around now or no?

[Clint]

Oh, that's a you question, man.

[Xander]

Right? Yeah, that's. That's up to you.

[Clint]

That's a hot. That's a spicy meatball. You. You take that.

[Pavel]

I mean, it's already going around like, because I've been tracking this since last week when I heard a little something. What's going on? And the initial thought was that because Ross Coldheart was on on News Nation saying that he heard there was a job offer being thrown around and there was somebody that was already being considered for this job offer. And my initial thought was hopefully that Stave Grush. And I was like, because that makes sense. He's the guy who's with Burleson working as a staffer, pointing people towards the goodies, quote, unquote. But after seeing yesterday's event, you know, I. I started asking again, and initially I didn't get confirmation as is, but I. I heard that word was going around that this idea of a disclosures are. Was likely going to be for Lou Alessandro. And I don't know. I don't know what to think of it. That's just like what I think might happen, but I don't know what you guys think about that. Lou being the guy

[Clint]

doesn't surprise me. That explains what he's been doing this whole time. It would explain so many things, like the whole, like, folksy presentation to Fox News viewers with the hat and the war, you know, the. All the war behind them on the wall. And it's like, hey, I'm one of you guys. I'm just here to. I want to get the facts, you know, all of this PR that's been happening for all these years, if suddenly

[Pavel]

the award makes more sense, right?

[Clint]

What, you know, what did we say earlier? This is how it goes, man. This doesn't surprise me. I. I agree with you. It should be Grush, but that's not who they're gonna pick.

[Pavel]

And what does that mean, though? Like, what type of disclosure do we get if Lewis?

[Xander]

You tell me.

[Clint]

Pavel, what do we get?

[Andy]

A reckoning.

[Clint]

Anybody in our chat who wants to call in, let us know if you're cool.

[Xander]

We'll see if the doom meter spikes after that.

[Clint]

Oh, we went up to six. We're at doom Doom Condition six right now. So there you go, guys.

[Xander]

I don't know, Pablo, I'll ask you what. What do you think that would mean? But honestly, what do you think it would mean? Well, we were talking more. Yeah, I know, but is there any more that you're willing to share? Because I'm.

[Pavel]

Well, it's just that, man, they're trying to cover up for stuff that was done, and that's the only way that they're gonna go about it. And if we are complaining here, anybody else who complains, all they're doing is, like, looking at us straight in the face and go, like, tough. This is what we're doing. And it. I don't know, it's. I guess the same plan has been tried to. Has been inserted constantly, year after year, and whenever it doesn't work, they like, reconvene and try to formulate a new way to execute that plan. And it's the same plan from the times of Hillary, from the to the Stars Academy days. I think that in my opinion, David grush emerging in 2022, that wasn't in the cards for those people. And I think that Grush, when he came about, he initially probably didn't understand fully what was going on, and he tried to play ball with everybody who was approaching him. But now, and you've seen him make those public statements, now, he understands more of what's going on, and he opposes a lot of that. He called out Clapper directly on. I think it was Fox News or with Megyn Kelly, I'm not sure. But I. I want to know what Grush thinks about this, because he was, I think, opposed to it.

[Clint]

And

[Pavel]

honestly, I thought that it would. It would be him. I didn't think that we were gonna see Lou taking any lead positions anymore. Hopefully, I'm wrong. Hopefully it's just a rumor and it's not happening, but I don't know, it feels.

[Clint]

I guess the question is, what would that position entail? What is a. What is a disclosure czar tasked with doing? And what teeth does that position come with? Is it actually equipped to make a difference in any meaningful way, or is it merely a symbolic position that looks cool? I mean, these questions are really important, and I think you're right. I think Grush is. Is sort of a wild card. I don't think they saw that coming.

[Pavel]

And then Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland also came forward. Sure, man. I've been trying to ask people involved in this to give me an opinion on what is happening to Dylan and what Jeremy and George have been reporting and I told you a little while ago, I also judge people by what they don't say and by their silence on certain things. There's a lot of people that don't even acknowledge them and I think that's a major issue and that plays into more figures coming into the disclosure. Like sort of octagon you could say, and not being part of that overall plan. And these guys that have this overall plan have been just adjusting as more new people come come forward that weren't in the plan.

[Clint]

You know, every dating app swap is another loss. Gym bros, fake CEOs, straight up losers.

[Andy]

So now the only app I open is Moto Casino because at least there

[Clint]

I'm surrounded by winners, real winners, thousands of them.

[Andy]

While everyone else is in the single

[Clint]

swamp, I'm at home relaxing while stacking bonuses, hitting wins and playing all the all my favorite Vegas style games. Moto Casino the only app worth your time.

[Xander]

Moto Casino Social Casino prohibited the purchase necessary. Visit Moto Us for more details. Download the Moto Casino app today.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Must be 21 Moto Casino America Social Casino.

[Pavel]

And this is what they're trying to do with and I do applaud them for showing public support for whistleblowers. If had they not done that whole trophy thing and this

[Clint]

word about Lou

[Pavel]

had had it not been around in these few days, I think that the event would have been received much with, with the wider arms. But it wasn't.

[Clint]

And is it, is it not fair to say and I'm not trying to just be contrarian for the sake of it, but is it, it's okay though. Is it fair to say that we don't get to where we're at today without Lou Elizondo? Yeah, you don't get here without that.

[Pavel]

And he, I mean he was there alongside Tom DeLonge because I give Tom DeLonge a lot of credit to where

[Clint]

is Tom on all this? Has he made any public statements at all now?

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Are you.

[Pavel]

No.

[Clint]

Android Paranormal has a Super Chat here says the purpose of the event was to convince Congress lobbyists and scientists to take it seriously. Having events is a normal part of the process for any effort to change political direction on any topic. Thank you for the super chat. Android Super Chat.

[Andy]

Great Super Chat. But also how many of these events have we had already? And the hearings and the stuff on Capitol Hill and Age of Disclosure. Is nothing working that they have to keep doing it? So that's. That argument doesn't wash for me that we have to keep having These. Because all these people are having the conversations with each other constantly.

[Clint]

This would be a great. This is a great one for Richard Dolan, and we should get Richard back on the show.

[Andy]

It was.

[Clint]

It reminds me of the. Of the time the Soviet Union collapsed. Remember when the Soviet Union collapsed?

[Xander]

I don't. I wasn't born.

[Clint]

Yeah, you. But there was a period of. Of perestroika where it was sort of an opening of relations and a relaxing of. Of controls in the Soviet Union that led to the slow. And then all of a sudden, very fast dissolution of the Soviet Union, which. Which seemed to happen very slowly and then all at once. And it was just over one day. But it was a messy process. And then the aftermath of that took a decade or two to really. It's still playing out. That's how you get Putin. That's how you get the whole current geopolitical setup. And I imagine that dismantling, or maybe what we're seeing is some kind of a controlled demolition of some aspects of the secrecy as a pressure release. But it's going to play out very messy in that same way. It's going to be a lot of meetings, a lot of conversations, a lot of things that don't seem to make sense that are sort of happening in different because you're not seeing the full picture. And then eventually one day you'll just look back and go, oh, I don't know when we did it, but somehow we got here and here we are. I think it's going to be.

[Pavel]

Listen, man, if these whistleblower protections do come out through an executive order and people do speak about what they've seen and they touched and all that, I'll shut the fuck up, I promise you.

[Clint]

But I don't. Don't shut up. I think we. We want to keep hearing from you. I just. I agree with you. I don't like the fact that people are going to walk on things that they shouldn't walk on. But I just. I think I'm past the point where I think that's it's going to ever be any other way than that.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Yeah.

[Clint]

Yeah. And I think I'm just content.

[Andy]

Why did I come in on the Elizondo dead?

[Pavel]

Go ahead.

[Clint]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy]

Elizondo would have made sense before 2022, because I think he was the guy. And then Grush coming forward really seems the obvious choice. So unless this was already, you know, in the works, I'm not too sure why. It's not Grush, unless Grush didn't want to do it there's always that potential. But what is very telling to me, there was a glaring omission in Age of Disclosure and it was a big David Grush shaped hole. He was never a talking head. He never spoke. It was filmed over three years. Stratton and Lu are together. I imagine that was filmed early on. As it goes on, Stratton and Lou are never seen together again. So I'm intrigued to see what Stratton says about the whole situation with Aytep OSAP and what's happened since in his book when it comes out. There were lots, lots of chat online. Again, I don't do the gossip, rumor, bollock stuff, but there was a lot of talk about Stratton and his wife, I believe Pavel confirmed being unhappy. Things Elizondo had said. This was all out there. I'm not.

[Pavel]

There are discord. Screenshots of that.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Yes. There were screenshots of it where she was unhappy about what Lewis said and how he has made his role sound and all of this. So there's a lot of intrigue around that whole relationship, that situation. Grush and Elizondo never seem to be in the same place at the same time. I'm not saying it's a Michael Jackson, Latoya Jackson situation, but with regard to those two, is there a relationship there? Does there have to be after you think there would be a relationship there between them at least speaking terms. It just still seems very fractured in a lot of ways. And yeah, Grush for me would be the real obvious pick for many reasons. And I hate to say this because I say I. Back in the day when Lou was doing podcasts and stuff, I met him once and he's been on the show a few times. The last time was obviously when he was talking about his book. And I'm really intrigued to hear Lou speak again when his next book, next book comes out. I'm sure he'll be back on the podcast circuit, but he had a couple of major missteps and I mean, big time. The reflection thing was really poor. And not just the picture of the irrigation circle. Right. But the way he tried to defend it and the Conor McGregor, I'm sorry for not I'm. I'm sorry for, you know, I'm not apologizing to anyone type thing. You know, it was like, that's you made a mistake, so come out and own it instead of basically turning it back on people who called them out on it. So if you're going to have a guy who has block blotches on his jota. Then perhaps you need to go for a Grush who right now doesn't have those mistakes in the locker Again. If your favorite sports team's hiring a coach, do you go for the guy with a clean record? Are you go for the guy who's had a couple of big missteps recently. You want the guy with a clean record?

[Clint]

I, I agree with you, but I, I think you're proceeding from the assumption that this is a like, properly done, you know, oversight operation.

[Xander]

That's good effort in good faith.

[Clint]

And I think instead what you're seeing is a criminal organization from within springing its own people by setting up an official channel for them to come.

[Andy]

I wouldn't want to go there and start throwing criminal about with people and individuals.

[Clint]

Well, criminal, but whatever you want to call it that, you know, they've been, you know, wrapped up in this conspiracy and God only knows who and what we're talking about here. We just know that it's been a cover up for 70 years. People have been killed for it, you know, whatever that means, criminal or not. But so those, if the calls are coming from within the house, like, those are the people who are, they're planning all this. That's, that's why we've been hearing from them.

[Xander]

It's probably worth pointing out that let's say disclosure in some way has to happen, to what degree we don't know. But let's say disclosure has to happen, partial or not. Do you think the people that are in control of it, that have been in control of the secrets for the last 80 years are gonna say, ah, well, that's it, game over, guys. Let's see how the community does this. They are going to control every step of the way. So I think it's reasonable to assume that at least one faction of what we're experiencing, whether it be Grush, Elizondo or Greer, he's still a guy, albeit a smaller sort of faction.

[Clint]

I think he's done. I think Greer is finished with this.

[Xander]

There's Bledsoe, like all of these guys. I think it's reasonable to assume that at least one of those guys is working from within as part of the, the control system that has been part of the control system for, for this long. The question is who? I will just say if I had to put my money on it, and I've never met the guy, I watched Stage of Disclosure and for me that guy would be Lou Elizondo. And that, that push, that, that whole push there would be from A working from within kind of angle. Now, I don't know that based on any evidence other than Age of Disclosure at this point, but that film was enough for me to say, okay. With the. The heavyweight hitters that are in this film, the level of Congress and Senate involvement in that film, I would say, okay, if the government is gonna push, it will be from that place. So, I don't know, make of that what you will, but. Oh, yeah, when I did, when I made an episode about the Age of Disclosure at the Dreamland Motel, all I said was, we should ask the question, who were the people in this film? Because that was a relatively big budget film for the topic, and it was talking heads and government, and simple as that for me at this point, yeah,

[Clint]

you're seeing a very deftly executed in group of intelligence experts staging a event that appears to be disclosure from the vantage point of where we sit, but is, in fact an off ramp for them to commercialize the technology, put themselves in position to profit from it, get on the, you know, set up the appropriate associations and NGOs, and then get on those boards and then get out from under the burden of their own secrecy so that they can move on with the thing. And what we're seeing on the outside, how that plays out is in the form of. I saw this and I called it from day one with Lou Elizondo. And there's footage of me saying this like a year and a half ago about this guy every time he goes on camera. He is a very, very good communicator. It's almost like he's had media training. He's really good. And he's either really good because he's just naturally talented, or he's doing a job. And I think the job he's doing is hearts and minds. And if you look at the guy, when he came out, he sort of appeared on the scene, and he would go on any podcast, it didn't matter how many subscribers they had. If they had 12 subscribers, he would show up and he would give interviews and he would talk to people, and it didn't take long before this whole community started to really get amped up about this Lou Elizondo guy. And I remember when Kurt Gal on Theories of Everything interviewed him, that was. That was really like kind of the breakout moment where it started to get serious about, oh, my God, these views. These videos are getting 100,000, 200,000 views. We started to see these big numbers. And every time he would talk, I would notice that his presentation would. Would change based on the group that he was addressing. So if he was on Fox News, I joked about this earlier, but he would have his. His military. He's like, army baseball cap on. He'd have his, like, American flag in the background. He'd be in his office with all his, like, military stuff. And he's talking to middle America. He's talking to, you know, Fox News conservative type viewers. But then he would go on a Joe Rogan, or he'd go, not Joe Rogan, but he'd go on a podcast, another podcast, or he'd go on another show. And he would have a completely different demeanor and a different approach that would be more relaxed. And he'd be drinking a beer. He'd be like, I'm just hanging out with the guys and we're just shooting the breeze. Totally different approach. And I was like, why is this guy. Why is he just so out there all the time? Like, why? What is going on here? Something just feels off about this. I couldn't put my finger on it until this point in the game where it starts to all come together. And you see that, oh, this was a media campaign. This was laying the foundation to build the community. This includes all of us, right? And what do we do? We get around. We talk about this stuff. Now there's a. There's a community. There's support for a movement for some legislation, there's congressional support. All of that had to be built up and sort of over a period of years. And then we get to the point where we are now and we may actually get some form of disclosure, but it's going to be very tightly controlled and leveraged, as you guys have pointed out. But Spielberg's movie was probably a part of that. Goosing the public, you know, the zeitgeist a little bit, getting people prepared. Maybe there's nothing in it that is actually true. Maybe that doesn't even matter. The point is there was an alien movie called Disclosure Day to put that term in people's minds. I don't know. I could be overthinking this, but I really think we're seeing the long game play out here. And this is just a long game that started with a hearts and minds campaign.

[Xander]

And I, I do think it's fair to say Android pointed out that this, this whole thing is going to be messy no matter what. Most likely. I get it. But the whole point for me is, what's the actual end goal? Is it full, unadulterated truth? Is it all the truth that the public can handle? Or is it truth in the service of power and right now I don't know where that really lands based on the trajectory of what we're getting. And it maybe it's because I'm too hot and I'm grouchy but right now I don't feel good about the place where it's currently heading.

[Andy]

See on the Elizondo stuff. Sorry. Sorry Clint, did you want to come in there?

[Clint]

No, please go ahead.

[Andy]

I just want to say because because I don't know like I say the big issues Elizondo done a hell of a lot and you said it yourself Clint. We're here today because of what Elizondo and that group started. So then you can't say he's completely anti disclosure and a psyop and blah blah blah. But I know there's there's such a split in the camp now with folks who support Elizondo and what he's done. But also there's the counter intel guy etc. You see all the comments in the chat here. So I don't know where I fall down on it mainly because of the the irrigation circle stuff and the reflection no one in Lou himself can can really those were those like I say big issues for me both of those those moments. However, what you're saying about Lou and going back to 2020 when he started going on podcasts like he came on main really early on and that was a huge deal for me as I'm sure it was a lot of folks like early on I had Lou and I had Nat that was was massive names and not particularly gave me a huge huge kind of bump in the community that I'm really grateful for. But when it comes to the Elizondo working of the crowd as that necessarily a bad thing that he has played to different audiences, communicated differently with different audiences, been able to get the story out there to the masses that people who aren't as in tune as maybe the folks who listen to or watch this Elizondo's a huge name in this topic. His book was a New York Times bestseller. My book over my Shoulder wasn't just want to get that in there folks but could still be however his message has went around the world he is one of thanksander. He is one of the biggest names now in this conversation. So he's got us to a point now whether something happened along the way or not is totally up for debate and I can see folks like yourself Clint having that conversation. I'd love to know Pavel thoughts on it too. I get Gerb has said before, he's got some issues with Elizondo, and he's mentioned these. So it's a really strange playing field right now. And to see that right now. I'm a big fan of what Grush has done. But that's not to say it's like the Batman movies was. Alfred said to Batman, you either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. That's probably the case in the UFO topic too. In a couple of years, we'll be sitting here going, ah, Grush. When did they get to him? That's just what happens.

[Clint]

I just. I want to be clear that I'm not shitting on Lou when I say, when I make the observation and I present that hypothesis. I'm not making that because I'm saying, like, this guy's running a psyop on all of us. I am saying that what they are doing worked. It's. That's what it looks like to me. I'm looking at it as a media campaign to build public awareness and generate small support from a grassroots level. This is what Special Forces does. This is what psyops actually do in conflicts. When we go into another country, the first thing we do is we start getting into their heads and convincing them not to fight. And maybe they're. Maybe they should just give it all up and, you know, just give some information to us and everything's going to be fine. We could save a lot of lives that way. It's psyops. That's so. In the sense that there is a campaign to influence public opinion and a media campaign, yes, I do believe that's happening. Do I say. Is that necessarily bad? I don't know. And I can't say that I would paint him as a villain for participating in it. But whatever they're doing is being. It's working, it's successful, and look at where we are. So if we get disclosure, I'm gonna probably be okay with that. And I don't know that I even have a problem with the defense argument. I feel like I expect that at this point. So, you know, we're gonna get to wherever we get to. It's just at this point, we're just commentating on whatever happens. So I. That's just what I see.

[Xander]

For the record as well. I actually do think, even. Even if I was right, I. I'm under the impression that Lou does want disclosure. It's just. To what end? To for what specific purpose? I don't know. Maybe it's exactly the same purpose. But he also has more, considerably more knowledge than I on the topic. So he has considerably. Been more concerns. Yeah, and maybe they're valid. I have no idea whatsoever. But see, this. Is this the disclosure for him. This is the kind of conversation I want to see on a stage.

[Clint]

You are seeing it on. This is our stage, man.

[Andy]

That's where we do it.

[Xander]

Rather, Rather than giving out awards, how about we have this conversation with those guys on stage so that they can defend themselves? I would love for Lou to be able to defend himself with these sort of questions, because I think that's fair.

[Pavel]

You know, I want Rush to ask the questions to Lou directly. Yeah, well, table with both of them. Maybe garb too, you know.

[Clint]

You know, I, I don't think it's as black and white as, like, I don't think we're going to get like a good guy and a bad guy conflict that resolves in some way that's going to satisfy people. I think it's, you know, you've got intelligence people that are running an operation to get this information out in a controlled way. That's what they do. It's what they're trained to do. It's what it looks like from the outside, it's what it appears to be from within. You know, I'm just, Just calling it like I see it. And if at the end we get to disclosure, I have to be honest, every time I've heard Lou present his case in just straightforward terms, it lands with me. You know, what does he say? He goes, well, you lock your doors at night, don't you? You know, it's. You feel safe in your neighborhood, but you don't feel safe all the time. You don't leave your doors unlocked, you don't leave your windows open. You know, there's a. A lot of stuff out there that we're not necessarily prepared for, and maybe we should start thinking about that. I don't see anything wrong with that argument.

[Pavel]

You know, I think it goes a little beyond Lou. Louis, like, represents what I think might be happening, which is the reason Trump is now being a little more open about this after being pressured by people from Congress and Luna specifically, is also because Trump has a good relationship with Elon and, And Vance has a great relationship with Peter Thiel. And those guys also need to be accounted for in this whole thing. And I think Lou is a symptom of that type of disclosure that may happen. And I, I'm pretty sure that people like Grush, people like Matt, people like Dylan can see that. Obviously. And I know that probably they have to play ball and eventually I think they will. But, you know, I don't. I don't think they necessarily agree with this. That is playing out before their eyes, in our eyes.

[Clint]

I, I agree with what you said earlier about. There's just different groups that are. That have different motives. And there. There are some people who are, you know, doing it for love of the game, and there are some people because. Doing it because they need to protect their ass, and they're doing it other. Other people for some reason, other reasons.

[Pavel]

Grants.

[Clint]

But what you're seeing is a crumbling or a collapsing of a system that is. It was in state unstable to begin with and impossible to maintain forever, and sooner or later it was going to break. And maybe this is a controlled demolition to just make it happen in a way that they can control. I, I don't want to just. But I know we're still in the middle of this conversation, but I do want to talk about the Batista thing before we wrap up. And we're all towards the end of

[Xander]

the show here, right before we finish. I think the. After all of the complexity that we've just spent the last, like, hour talking about, it makes me just feel like, okay, let's just wait, watch what happens. Let's see if we get the picture or the video that we're all waiting to see. And then we just go with it one step at a time. Which is kind of what we said before we started streaming is that we. We should just, you know, is. Is the next step forward too far in the wrong direction or is it all still pointed in the right direction for the time being? And maybe we're just being a little bit too cautious about maybe us veering into that disclosure of control versus the disclosure of the liberation of mankind, if you want to call it that. Maybe there's.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

We're.

[Xander]

We're a bit preemptive and there's a few more steps that could happen. Maybe we could get a form of disclosure first before we reach a point where we have to decide whether we want to be controlled to an. To an increased degree or whether we want to try and fight back a little bit. I don't know where that point is, but maybe there's still a point where we could get some great evidence and

[Clint]

we might be standing. Should focus on on the beach cheerleading the Spanish as their ships come closer and closer to shore, not realizing that they're going to give us all disease and we're all gonna die. You know, like, oh, Come, you know, liberate us and. And come save us with your. Oh, my gosh. Look at these ships. Look, they're on horseback. Oh, my God.

[Pavel]

Look at these gods. Oh, my God.

[Clint]

They have guns. They. Oh, my God. It makes a cloud and a thunderclap, and it's amazing. And then that guy just died. What happened? We might be that and, you know, and we might just be ignorant to how nasty it actually is. You know, I. Mike Batista knows. He's a psionic asset who's been working hard behind the scenes to summon craft and beings.

[Xander]

And you've got the video prepped for this?

[Clint]

No, I don't.

[Xander]

I also find.

[Clint]

Sorry, but he posted this video that was supposedly recorded in Florida somewhere. A remote location in Florida where his team was out in a. On a field op.

[Xander]

Yeah, Boca Raton.

[Clint]

Mouth rat. Yeah, Mouth Rat. Florida field operation. Out in the Florida swamps, which is really miserable this time of year. I wouldn't recommend it for anybody.

[Pavel]

It's on Billy Kryzak's X account, that video. That's the best version.

[Xander]

It's the version that's very. Those contrasts have been played with quite heavily.

[Pavel]

So never mind I said anything then.

[Xander]

No, no, no. We should show both, I think.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Andy]

I don't think I've seen this.

[Clint]

You haven't seen it? Oh, boy.

[Xander]

You in for a treat.

[Pavel]

You'll probably be disappointed. I'm just telling you ahead of time.

[Andy]

I'm always disappointed.

[Pavel]

I know. You're Scottish. I know.

[Andy]

Perpetually disappointed.

[Pavel]

I know, I know.

[Xander]

All right, so we have. I will play Batista's thing first.

[Clint]

I like his dramatic setup. Can we get this?

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Clint]

This is really good.

[Xander]

I like it, too.

[Pavel]

Being suspended within.

[Andy]

Oh, I have seen this.

[Pavel]

The footage you're about to watch contains documented evidence of an interdimensional being suspended within a plasma type orb. This footage was captured by the psionic asset team while conducting a field operation in a remote location of Florida. Billy Krazak will be doing a full analysis on this video and more details to follow. Okay, you can full screen that one, though.

[Xander]

Do we really need to.

[Clint]

Let's do it. Enhance.

[Xander]

I'll full screen the next one.

[Pavel]

The footage you're about to watch. Okay,

[Clint]

the footage you're about to watch. That just looks like a.

[Xander]

This is the enhanced one, right?

[Clint]

Somebody holding a flashlight.

[Pavel]

So apparently that was taken on a field right above a field a couple hundred yards away. That's what they say.

[Andy]

Then they should know better. With no context, nothing in the background to give you any depth perception. No sky to look at horrendous video. Because the most basic, basic, basic investigators always tell you, try and get anything you can to give your point of reference. That's an utter disgrace. Yeah, yeah.

[Clint]

What was the first one that. That they. They put out another one on Ross's show a couple months back. Do you have that one?

[Xander]

I mean, I could just Google the word pixel and we could just show that image.

[Clint]

Hang on, I think. I think I've got it. Hold on, hold on. I think I got it right here. Okay, so it was. Here we go.

[Pavel]

That could well be just a reflection from the water. That is just like. It's like a. It's like a Rorschach test.

[Xander]

You know, there's the first one.

[Clint]

That was the first one.

[Xander]

I feel bad. Like, again, I'm grouchy. But this is not evidence.

[Andy]

You know the movie the Room?

[Xander]

Yeah.

[Andy]

The worst movie ever made. Someone's compared Mike Batista to the dude from the room going, I did not. Oh, hi, Mark. The way he stands in his chat. So, yeah, if you know, you know, here's the actual.

[Clint]

I was just bullshitting around. But wait, here we go.

[Andy]

White blue face.

[Clint]

Ah.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

All right.

[Clint]

Too many cooks.

[Xander]

It's two black dots for eyes. It looks like a sort of a dot for the mouth, and it's a long overloid head and face you.

[Pavel]

And it almost looked as surprised to see me as I was.

[Clint]

It did so.

[Xander]

Oh, really now, Mike, in that freeze

[Clint]

and zoom you see, is that a Pac man village?

[Andy]

Like some kind of translucent white blue face? But it's not a human face.

[Xander]

It's two black dots for eyes.

[Pavel]

Yep.

[Clint]

Let him talk. Over the moon tonight.

[Andy]

I'm sorry, but that does not help this level of conversation. See that? That does not help the UFO topic. And if you're watching this or listening to this and you saw that picture and you think that's something non human, I hope to God you're right. But the problem for me is people. And I love what Ross has done for this subject. But you platform that and you don't call it out as. But that could be. That could be in literally anything. That does not help the topic with the 99.9% of the public are trying to get on board at all.

[Clint]

John Daly here.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

You know what day it is?

[Xander]

Neither do I. I live life daily.

[Clint]

That's why I only spin on Moto Casino.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Moto's got daily free bonuses, daily tournaments, new slots added daily. And the best part, guaranteed daily jackpots. You can't beat that. So today's the day you grip it and spin it with me. On Moto America's Social Casino.

[Clint]

Play for free on Moto Us Moto

[Xander]

Casino the social casino Prohibited number just necessary. Visit Moto Us for more details. Download the Moto Casino app.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Today must be 21/ Moto Casino America Social Casino.

[Pavel]

I agree.

[Xander]

Just. I I. Let's. Let's say this. I'm not gonna say that it's a hoax, but let's say it's something that Batista filmed that he truly believes is really there. And. And all of this, I have a number of questions. Number one, and these maybe may have legitimate answers. Why, if he called in this craft psionically, why does this being appear to be standing at some sort of console, as they called it? They called it a console. If this craft is being piloted and manipulated by psionic means, why is this creature standing at something that you would press buttons on? Why does the creature not move a single inch the entire video?

[Moto Casino Announcer]

It.

[Xander]

It doesn't turn its head. This is. This is in the video. It's a static object. It's this. Whatever this is. Why does the video appear to be being shot like through shimmering like leaves? To me it looks like leaves or like a spider web or something like that.

[Clint]

Oh, that's the original. Yeah. This.

[Xander]

Wait, no, this is. This is the. The latest one.

[Clint]

Yeah, yeah, I wanted to show it. Hang on. Sorry, I got the wrong.

[Xander]

Got it. That's.

[Andy]

This.

[Xander]

This is not it. I'll just play it on loop.

[Clint]

That just looks like someone's standing in the woods pointing a flashlight at you.

[Xander]

Yeah, that looks to me like things are swaying back. Leaves are swaying back and forth. You can see it on like right hand side of the light. There's something just swaying back and forth in the wind to me. So I want to know, like, what was this shot through? Why is there a light coming from the middle? I don't. I don't understand why there would be a light coming from this beings chest or console or something. Like, I hate to shit on this stuff. I really do. Because I want this to be real. But I don't see nothing here.

[Clint]

Fuck this. This is all awful. And this is stupid. Why is Ross even entertaining this on News Nation? And this is. We need to have higher standards as a community for what we accept and what we just call bullshit.

[Xander]

On.

[Clint]

And this is clearly.

[Xander]

I don't mind watching it, but I. I just question the people that say, like, what the.

[Clint]

Man.

[Xander]

Well, this. Case closed, guys.

[Clint]

If you brought this to Me, if I'm at News Nation and you show up with this, and you're like, you want to go on TV with this? You want me to put you on my show and I'm supposed to talk through whatever the fuck this is. Get out of here. Like, that just doesn't make any sense. And to do it twice. The first one was so fucking awful. I can't believe that he tried this again. And then with this, it's like, dude, you better come with some serious footage. The second time around after this, I

[Xander]

don't who can take you seriously, fake or not. Mr. Immaculate came with better shit than this.

[Clint]

I mean, that's my point. We're in a world now where you can make photorealistic whatever you want and, you know, HD video completely believable. So you're going to have to come with better footage than this. Like, I'm not asking for it to be fake. I'm just saying, like, the. The bar is so much higher. It's at least what Andy said. Have a tree or a point of reference. Show us the. The site a little bit. Walk around. Let me see where your car is. Yeah, show me how many yards away or meters that is.

[Xander]

You always take it more seriously. If he didn't show this and just told the story, come out the next

[Clint]

day when it's daylight and walk the site again and say, this is where the object was. Take a radiation reading of that area. Fucking walk around it with some equipment, you know, gather some data. You were out in Florida in the middle of nowhere. You got this being to come down to ground level and hover there, and it lit up the night like this. And you're telling me, what did you do? You just left. Like, come on, man. I'm not buying it.

[Xander]

I think that's a freeze frame on what is supposedly the clearest part, where you can see ahead and the console.

[Andy]

But again, like, no, you can't.

[Xander]

You. You can't. You can't.

[Pavel]

It's another bijou point situation, right?

[Xander]

What is your. What's the point in the light? What's the point in the console? Why does nothing move throughout the entire video? Somebody, but some. Somebody on X even said they could see other beings walking alongside it.

[Clint]

That's just. That's.

[Xander]

I'm just. That's no idea what you're talking about there.

[Clint]

You got it. You got to draw the line somewhere with this stuff. And you have to just be willing to say, look, I. Green Beret or not, this. This is. And I'm not gonna Sit here and watch it. I don't give. I don't have the time for it.

[Xander]

I genuinely feel bad because I've heard that Batista is the nicest guy and I've never spoke to him. And I'm not saying he's making this up, but you have to accept that even if this did happen and you saw a much better thing than we

[Clint]

are, Mike Batista, if you're watching, I'm in Florida. I will go with you to wherever. Just call me, we'll set it up and I'll go out there and you show me. And if I'm wrong, then I'll eat it. But there you go.

[Andy]

And if they have metadata and all that kind of stuff you've mentioned, that's important, great. And you know what? I would again, I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say I would love this to be genuinely real and wow. But given what it is, and like I say, with zero reference to anything round about it, it's just fuel for skeptics and debunk. No, because skeptics isn't fair. It's fuel for debunkers. To look at this is ridiculous. And your average member of the public will look at that and go, that's just a random light. See, when you get people putting videos online, a starlink, and they go, wow, look at this. Or being chased through the sky.

[Xander]

I have. I have a guy who cuts my hair every so often and he's really into this stuff, but not, albeit not quite so educated. I wouldn't show him this video.

[Andy]

No.

[Xander]

Because it would just serve no purpose. He would just be like, what is.

[Clint]

Well, now, check this out. This is just one last thing before we wrap up because I know we've all got to get on with our day here, but I want to share this one website this popped up on. I think it was on UFOB and this website called the Xenologist. Have you guys seen this mega dump of UFO images? And so these. Now, I don't know if these are real or not, but these. This is supposedly a mega dump of all these different photos. Now, in here is some garbage, but there's some really cool stuff in here as well. I mean, if you look at what now, we know some of these are legit. Like this cigar one, for sure. There's the lake coat photo somewhere. I don't see it in here. This. I don't.

[Pavel]

That's from a movie.

[Clint]

Yeah.

[Xander]

John Stewart loved that image.

[Clint]

This one I've seen. This video is. Is A real video shot on vhs. And I've seen this craft do this. This is a still frame from the longer video. And it's crazy. That could be anything. Okay, here we go.

[Xander]

Of course, this one, that old chestnut.

[Pavel]

The thing is that pretty much everything here could already be faked by AI.

[Xander]

Yeah, could.

[Clint]

But some of these are older. You know, some of these we've seen before. These are not all brand new. But I'm just saying, like, if. If this is stuff from over the collected over the last two, three, four decades, if you're going to show up with pixelated video that's from the X Files. That picture right there is a still frame from the X Files. But some of this. I mean, look at the old photos that we have from the 40s and 50s and 60s and how good they are. So. Yeah, I don't know about this.

[Andy]

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. But come on.

[Clint]

What do you think about this one?

[Pavel]

It's a movie prop.

[Andy]

Yeah. Maybe Alien getting a manicure.

[Clint]

Yeah. Anyway, xenologist.com. this was the mega dump. It had a ton of upvotes. And so I. I wanted to pull it up to show.

[Xander]

But, yeah, I think we should probably say, like, I'm in support of the. Of efforts like this if you want to go out into the desert and try and call this stuff in, if you believe that's possible. I don't know if I believe it or not. I've never seen it done, so I wouldn't know. I'd like. As Andy said, I'd like to believe this stuff. But you do have to come with.

[Clint]

How much does it cost to. To go on the trip? Is it.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Is it.

[Clint]

Do people pay to go?

[Pavel]

Yeah.

[Xander]

How much do these guys here.

[Pavel]

There's a price tier on the psionic acid website.

[Clint]

Okay, let's see. Psionic. What is their website?

[Pavel]

I'm not sure if it's dot com or dot org. I'm not sure, but it's cyanic acid.

[Xander]

Do these guys take night vision with them? You'd have thought they. They would.

[Pavel]

I would guess they're military.

[Xander]

They should put this on night vision. I don't. I just. This a question. I just. It's a really obvious, boring question that should have a very mundane answer.

[Clint]

Okay.

[Xander]

And it's a question needs to be asked.

[Clint]

Here we go. All right. I'm on the website and it says a field experience Mike Batista offers is not a novelty. It is not a night out under the stars with a flashlight and a hopeful heart. It is structured Disciplined repeatable field training in psionic perception and human initiated contact built on a methodology refined across hundreds of documented field encounters with UAP phenomena. If you are ready to stop watching from the outside and start working from the inside, this is where that begins. A psionic field asset field experience is guided a small group field session led by Mike Batista in a real world research environment. Participates are trained in the same structured perception protocols Mike has been has developed and tested over years of active fieldwork. Protocols designed not for entertainment but for results. Every session is documented, Every observation is examined. Some attempts succeed, others do not. But every effort produces data and every participant leaves the framework for continuing this work on their own. Apply to join us so you have to apply. I don't see prices anywhere.

[Xander]

Maybe it's free.

[Clint]

Maybe it's free. What I'm getting at is if you paid, let's say it's a thousand dollars, if you paid a thousand dollars and you went out and you were out in the middle of the, the swampy Florida outback all night getting eaten alive by mosquitoes and that's what you saw, how would you feel?

[Xander]

Depends how much I paid.

[Clint]

A thousand dollars?

[Moto Casino Announcer]

No,

[Andy]

I'm just picking a number and had the context of where it was, what was around it and all that kind of stuff. I would also ask, is that someone with a flashlight? Because it's not going to look like that to the naked eye. That's, that's clearly an image that's like zoomed in so you can see a bit of the glow and blur. It's not going to look like that to the eye. So I think you'd see something very, very different.

[Clint]

I think I. My question would be if it were me and I had paid us whatever amount of money to go there, but let's just call it a grand and you're there and then you see the light off in the distance. If it's, I'm going to want to know, is it a drone? Is it another one of your guys off there, you know, that just walked up out of the woods with a flashlight on a stick and stuck it up in the sky, I'm going to need to know. And so I would have my own night vision. I'd want to be, you know, I'd want to shoot my own video and I would want to. And I think that you're right, you're right, you're asking the right question, like, what is this experience? Because we know that Bledsoe is now charging tickets to go out and teach people how to do psionic, you know, summoning of orbs or whatever. And I think the price I heard was in the $3,000 range.

[Xander]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy]

If you want to use my link, I'll get in there before Zander 3.

[Clint]

And that's fine. If, you know, if somebody wants to charge money to go out in the woods and say that's what they're doing, that's fine. And people can pay that, and that's. That's the free market, you know, whatever. But if I'm gonna sit here and. And look at that video, I gotta call on that until I see something more impressive.

[Xander]

You gotta call at least. That's not evidence.

[Clint]

I don't know what it is.

[Xander]

It doesn't even meet the qualification for evidence. Not even. You don't even have to go as far as saying this evidence is. Is a hoax, because it's just not evidence as far as I'm concerned. I don't know.

[Pavel]

What?

[Clint]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Pavel]

Would you be pissed if they release, like, a proper video analysis on Gaia?

[Andy]

On Gaia? Yeah. The fact it's on Gaia is an issue for me.

[Clint]

That wouldn't even matter.

[Pavel]

I think that's probably what's gonna happen.

[Xander]

I'm so grumpy. I feel bad because I don't want to be this skeptic, but come on, this isn't. This isn't useful at all.

[Clint]

It's.

[Xander]

It's very hot.

[Clint]

You don't want to be the skeptic, but at the same time, you want to be at least a little street smart about how you approach this stuff. You have to be. You have to be. I mean, there's. There's no other way around it. There's just too much horseshit in this whole subject to not have some kind of discernment about what it is you're looking at. And when it's so blatantly, obviously not any kind of evidence at all. Platforming it to Andy's point earlier just makes no sense. It makes the whole movement look weird. It makes all of us look goofy. It makes Neil Degrasse Tyson giddy with glee. He gets to go point to that and be like, I don't know, show me the aliens. You know, oh, then they show this little pixel, right? So it's like, you know, I don't know what we're trying to do here, but it's not helping anybody and pretending like it's not, you know, horseshit helping

[Xander]

anyone either in the service of optimism, like, it's just gonna lead Nowhere I

[Andy]

can see Dan Cleary in the chat and I'm sure he's seen. He's a big fan of the video and thinks it's legit.

[Clint]

Why is Dan not here? Well, Dan, where are you? Why are you not here? Are you.

[Xander]

I think he's playing. Playing Madden with Keanu Reeves.

[Clint]

He's playing Madden with Keanu again.

[Pavel]

Oh, so name drop.

[Clint]

All right, guys, I think that's it for us today. We're going to wrap it there. It's. It's almost 20 after 4, but it was a great show, man. This is a really good conversation and really enjoyed it.

[Xander]

As I said, I think these are the conversations that need to happen on those stages that, that we've been experiencing the last week. Like, it needs to be in. Not necessarily us.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

I'm not.

[Xander]

Not saying hire us, but, like, let's ask the slightly more difficult and uncomfortable questions. I think it's fine. And ask it with those people present because there's no problem with holding people's feet to the fire. And that's what happened with Kurt Jumungle and Grit. Like, he. And. And Kurt for. I don't know why he's gotten out of the topic, but at least he had the balls to when he was faced with the opportunity. He just went straight in on Greer and Greer did not like that. And that. That really shined a very important light on people like Greer.

[Pavel]

And Dan Setterstrom did the same thing as well.

[Clint]

Right.

[Pavel]

He also had an exchange. Oh, he was on that.

[Andy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Clint]

And that's a sign. That's a red flag. That is. That is. That's you finding out that they are full of shit, at least some of the time. I'm not saying everything Greer says is bullshit, but some of what he says is horseshit. And. And that is true. Like, I just don't buy it. And so to call it out, I. I think that takes. There is a fine line between, you know, being discerning about what you're looking at and who you're talking to and what they're saying and listening with a critical mind and asking questions and picking apart the argument that they're making and trying to see if there's any real substance beneath it there. And then being a complete, you know, skeptic slash debunker. It's easy to tip from one into the other, but it is possible to walk that line. And I think that's how we elevate the conversation. We try to get it there. Sorry, Andy, go ahead.

[Andy]

No, no, I interrupted you. Sorry. What's going to be interesting is we are in an age where a lot of these names, and I don't mean this in a morbid way, but they're not getting younger. You've got a lot of these folks who are in their 70s and 80s and 90s, and they're not going to be around forever. So we're in a time where you've got a whole new generation of folks coming through to take those places. Some good, some bad, some. Some may be good, then they'll change as it goes along proper Anakin Skywalker style. But I think it's. That's where it's important, I think for folks like us scumbag podcasters. Pavel, you probably refer to yourself as a journalist, but, you know, I think it's. I think it's important to be able to comment and help people through the UFO landscape over the years, over the decades, and as these names transition in and out of the topic, be able to say, this is where we were, this is what X said. They are no longer part of that conversation. This is who is now taking those places and see how that conversation evolves and changes over the years. So it's a kind of interesting phase, I think, of ufology, where we're still in a crossover period where so many of the folks, like a Jacques Vallee, who done the work through the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the noughties, you've now got your gerbs coming through. So you know what I mean? So again, you've come. Yeah, guys, ghettos and everything in between that are kind of taken taking these mantles up. And I think it's important to kind of platform the right ones and, yeah. Help people through that. So interesting times.

[Clint]

I couldn't agree more. I think that's one of the most exciting things about being a scumbag podcaster is the fact that we do get to participate in this moment. It is. I mean, and no matter how it turns out, what it shakes out, to be as messy as it probably will be going through it, it's a cultural moment and it's the most punk rock shit ever. I mean, this is it. This is the big one and we're living through it. So it is amazing to be here and to be able to meet you guys and become friends with all the amazing people in our community and to just be a part of this, you know, I. Who knows what happens next, but it's a crazy ride. I'm really enjoying it. On that note, Xander, is there anything you want to say before we wrap up?

[Xander]

Why me?

[Moto Casino Announcer]

I don't know.

[Clint]

You didn't say anything for a minute.

[Xander]

They never shut up. That's my problem. I guess the last thing I would say is the point of holding someone's feet to the fire is to give them the opportunity to provide the context that the rest of us need. So maybe if Mike was here and he was of the right mind, he would say, look, guys, yeah, I'm sorry, the video is dog, but let me explain how it was being there in, in person and seeing this so that we can get that content context rather than the 20 second clip that he put on X, that it did not show an interdimensional being, despite what you would like to say in the intro. It didn't show that the video didn't show that the reality that might have been, but the video didn't show it.

[Clint]

We should point out, I think it's worth mentioning too, that Dan's not here or he, he would probably bring this up. But there, there was some mention from some people who were at. Contacted the desert that they had successfully, you know, achieved some kind of contact with a craft out in the desert or something. And we know categorically that that was complete horseshit. And, and that's just a fact. Like, we know that we. This, this group is for sure, 100%. And yet they're out there saying, so, you know, how many times do you give someone an opportunity to, you know, undo that or to make amends or, you know, at some point you just have to move on and focus on other things too. So I just, I think it's important to keep in context that we do occasionally find out when people are, yeah. Trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

[Xander]

Very true.

[Clint]

It does happen. So with that, we're going to go ahead and wrap it there. Thanks to Andy, our returning champion, for joining us again this week from that UFO podcast, of course, one of our favorite podcasts. And you should go there and subscribe and listen to it and also go to Dreamland Motel, Xander's channel, and subscribe there. You can fall asleep to the soothing sounds of Xander Jones and the amazing music which is going to play us out here. And one last thing, go to Sequel Activos channel. Of course, subscribe there. You don't have to go pay $3,000 to go look at orbs with Chris Bledsoe or even whatever it costs to go out into the woods with Batista to look for orbs. But if you do want to throw some money around. You can go to teamnight shift.com and you can support us that way. It's what makes these conversations possible. You can go there and get some night shift coffee. You throw in a few bucks every month and support the show. And we send you a bag of freshly roasted coffee every month. It's a beautiful thing and it's the easiest way to support the show. So that's my plug. Thank you for watching, guys. We'll see you again next week. Keep looking up.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

My fellow Americans, this July we're celebrating America's birthday at Moto Casino by giving away 1,776,000 in prize. And one lucky winner is going to take home 1 million. Sc. Happy 250th birthday, America. You're welcome. Download Moto Casino today. Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casino is the social casino board. We're prohibited. No purchase necessary.

[Xander]

Visit Moto Us for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Moto Casino America Social Casino My fellow Americans, this July we're celebrating America's birthday at Moto Casino by giving away 1,776,000 in prize. And one lucky winner is going to take home 1,000,000 SC. Happy 250th birthday, America. America, you're welcome. Download Moto Casino today. Download the Moto Casino app today. Moto Casino is a social casino. But we're prohibited. No purchase necessary.

[Xander]

Visit Moto US for more details.

[Moto Casino Announcer]

Moto Casino America Social Casino.