1KHO 400: The Skills We’ve Forgotten - Rebuilding Connection in a Lonely World with Dr. John Delony

Summary

Episode Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast - Episode 1KHO 400: The Skills We’ve Forgotten - Rebuilding Connection in a Lonely World with Dr. John Delony

Release Date: December 20, 2024

In this milestone 400th episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Ginny Yurich celebrates the journey with her listeners and delves deep into the critical topic of rebuilding human connections in an increasingly isolated world. Joining her is Dr. John Deloney, a renowned national best-selling author and expert on relationships and community building. Together, they explore the erosion of interpersonal skills, the impact of technology on relationships, and actionable strategies to foster deeper connections within families and communities.

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1. Celebrating the Journey

Ginny Yurich opens the episode with heartfelt gratitude towards her listeners, emphasizing the community they've built together. She states, “This podcast isn't just about episodes or downloads. It's about us and what we're creating together. Connected families, full childhoods, and fuller lives” (00:19).

Dr. John Deloney echoes this sentiment, reinforcing the central theme of connection as the heart of their mission (00:53).

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2. The Erosion of Communication Skills

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the decline of communication skills in the digital age. Dr. John Deloney shares a poignant story about a technologist struggling to connect with his children after removing screens from his household. He remarks, “We are so far removed from actual friendship and connection… it’s a skills and a tools issue” (02:20).

Key Insight: The shift from face-to-face interactions to screen-based communication has created a generational gap in interpersonal skills, making genuine connections more challenging.

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3. The Role of Intentional Family Activities

The hosts highlight the importance of intentional activities in fostering connections. Deloney introduces the concept of "Questions for Humans," a deck of conversation starters designed to bridge communication gaps. He explains, “These are a wonderful thing to add into your year” (05:56).

Notable Quote: “There are over 10 options. These are a wonderful thing to add into your year” (06:24).

4. Overcoming Loneliness and Building Community

Deloney emphasizes that loneliness often stems from a lack of community and shared experiences. He references Carlos Whitaker’s experience with the Amish to illustrate how prolonged interactions can deepen connections: “They looked at each other and said, ‘you're done eating, but the meal's not over’” (07:50).

Key Insight: Shared, extended activities without the distraction of screens can significantly enhance interpersonal relationships and reduce feelings of isolation.

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5. Extending Adolescence and Its Implications

A profound discussion unfolds around the extended period of adolescence in modern society. Deloney and Ginny discuss how roles and expectations have blurred, leading to confusion about adulthood. Deloney mentions, “Adolescence was 12 to 18, then you're out… It's 10 to 30 now” (28:48).

Notable Quote: “Our children have become our idol. It’s what we worship in our homes” (25:00).

Key Insight: The lack of clear transitions between childhood and adulthood impedes the development of essential life skills, making independence and self-reliance more difficult for younger generations.

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6. Parenting Strategies to Reduce Yelling

The conversation shifts to effective parenting techniques, specifically addressing the detrimental effects of yelling. Deloney shares insights from Teaching with Love and Logic, emphasizing that yelling does not foster understanding or behavioral change. He states, “If you want your child’s behavior to change, they have to have a regulated adult in their life” (50:20).

Notable Quote: “When your kids are bored, you have not failed” (52:22).

Key Insight: Maintaining a calm and empathetic demeanor fosters a healthier home environment and promotes better behavioral outcomes in children.

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7. Reimagining Career Paths and Education

Deloney and Ginny explore the narrow perception of career paths, advocating for vocational creativity and the recognition of diverse professions. They discuss how conventional education systems limit children’s understanding of potential careers, urging parents to broaden their children’s horizons.

Key Insight: Encouraging children to explore a variety of interests and career options beyond traditional roles can lead to more fulfilling and successful adult lives.

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8. Book Recommendations and Resources

Throughout the episode, Deloney and Ginny recommend several influential books that address modern parenting, relationships, and community building:

• "Empire: The Summer Moon" by S.C. Gwynne – A historical account highlighting the importance of understanding diverse cultures and histories.
• "The Boy Crisis" by Warren Farrell – Explores the struggles faced by boys and men in contemporary society.
• "Role Mate to Soulmate" by Warren Farrell – Discusses the challenges in modern marriages and offers solutions for deeper connection.
• "Teaching with Love and Logic" – Provides strategies for effective and compassionate parenting.
• "Beyond Winning" by Kim John Payne and Luis Fernando Yosa – Examines toxic youth sports culture and promotes healthier approaches to youth activities.

Notable Quote: “Every parent should read it” (52:25) – Referring to Beyond Winning.

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9. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode concludes, Deloney and Ginny reflect on the importance of continual learning and community support in rebuilding connections. Ginny expresses deep appreciation for Deloney’s contributions, stating, “You are putting so much good out into the world” (63:29).

Deloney reiterates the significance of developing interpersonal skills and maintaining intentional relationships to enhance both personal and familial well-being.

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Conclusion

Episode 1KHO 400 of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of the deficits in modern communication and relationship-building skills. Through engaging dialogue, insightful stories, and practical recommendations, Ginny Yurich and Dr. John Deloney provide listeners with the tools and motivation to cultivate deeper, more meaningful connections in their lives. This episode serves as a vital reminder of the importance of intentional living and the profound impact of nurturing relationships in an increasingly disconnected world.

Highlighted Quotes:

• “We are so far removed from actual friendship and connection… it’s a skills and a tools issue.” — Dr. John Deloney (02:20)
• “When your kids are bored, you have not failed.” — Dr. John Deloney (52:22)
• “This podcast isn't just about episodes or downloads. It's about us and what we're creating together. Connected families, full childhoods, and fuller lives.” — Ginny Yurich (00:19)

Transcript

[Jenny Urich]

400 episodes. I can hardly believe we've reached this incredible milestone together. Every single one of you has made this journey what it is. And my heart is overflowing with gratitude to those of you who listen week after week, sharing your time, your thoughts, and sometimes even your stories with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you.

[Jenny Urich]

I genuinely consider you friends. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. When we meet in person, it feels like we've always known each other, doesn't it? There's an instant connection, a bond born from sharing in these conversations, these ideas, in these Mom. And knowing that our little corner of the world reaches so many corners of the world is humbling beyond words. Whether you're listening from your car, your kitchen, or while walking outside, please know this. You matter to me. Your presence here matters. This podcast isn't just about episodes or downloads. It's about us and what we're creating together. Connected families, full childhoods and fuller lives.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the heart of it all.

[Jenny Urich]

And I'm honored to be on this journey with you. So here's to 400 episodes of friendship, connection, and the journey we've shared. And here's to 400 more. Let's keep walking this path.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Together.

[Unknown]

Together.

[Jenny Urich]

One step, one story, one moment at a time.

[Unknown]

What's the best time of day to get a deal? All day with Jack in the box's all day big deal meal. You get to choose from four entrees like the supreme croissant and five tasty sides, plus a drink starting at $5. So hurry in or take your time. You've got all day at Jack. Every bite's a big deal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urich. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. I'm on the tail end of my voice today, so good thing that Dr. John DeLoney is here because he is going to take it away.

[Unknown]

What's up? God, it's so good to see you again. I'm glad you're doing good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's so good to see you. Dr. John Deloney, number one national best selling author. You know, I love these books and it's just they become more and more relevant as time goes on. Building a non anxious life. Own your past, change your future. I'm throwing in a third just for kicks. It's Sheila's book.

[Unknown]

Oh, my wife's book.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, so long as it's wonderful. Listen, if you want something good to read in 2025, a novel and you like end up like you feel like you're Part of the community. It's a wonderful book. Also, this feels a little deja vuish, but I've got.

[Unknown]

Oh, gosh. Oh, I see the intimacy deck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got the new one.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let's talk about this. John's got these. They're called Questions for Humans. There's like over 10, Jenny, that you can.

[Unknown]

Hold on, pause here. You can edit this out if you'd like. You know, someone. Like, you're in the game. Right. Like, there's very few benefits to, like putting your whole life out and just being ripped apart on the Internet 24. 7. You at least should get Questions for Humans for free. No more buying stuff from my shop. Like, I'll mail them to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. Well, I do. I like to support.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's start here.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We don't know how to talk to each other.

[Unknown]

Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So we need some guides. And I think this is fantastic. So also I'm all about, like, you're going to spend your money for holidays. Spend it on something that's going to increase your connections. It's going to make your life more full. These are perfect for the stocking. And there's like couples and dating. There's. So there's some for relationships. The newest one is intimacy.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some of them are a little intimate and some of them are more innocuous. Like, what do you want our relationship to look like in five years? Or what's an activity you'd like to try together? But then there's ones for parents and kids and teens in your high school classroom and your friends and girls. Night. Tell us the backstory, John. These are wonderful.

[Unknown]

No, thank you. Backstory was, honestly, I called a guy before. So I had this career before I became, as my 14 year old calls me, just a YouTuber. I had a career before this in, in. At universities. And so I was asking probably the smartest guy I know, and he was on the board, Apple and Google. He's a cio. He's just a savant. But I remember asking him, like, hey, what's the book for men that hasn't been written yet? If I'm going to leave this thing and go add more noise to an already screaming media ecosystem, what needs to be said? And he said to me, because he's a tech guy, said, well, I've been listening to you for a few years, just friendship wise. And I mean, he has three daughters. And he said, I got rid of all of our screens and now we're all just sitting around staring at each other. What do I do now? And I started laughing. I was like, well, talk to your daughters. And his response was so great. He goes, and by the way, this is a Texan that wears boots and jeans everywhere, has a laugh you can hear in Nebraska. Just a gregarious, wonderful guy. And he goes, okay, Delaney, I'll just talk to him. And I started laughing and said, oh God, you don't know how. And he goes, I don't know how to talk to him. And that was the switch for me. When we're talking about loneliness and we're talking about disconnection, we instantly go to some sort of moral or characterological issue. You're less than. And I think that's a terrible way to frame it. I think we are so far removed from actual friendship and connection, we're a decade out now, right when we dumped our entire world onto screens, that I think it's a skills issue. It's simply a skills and a tools issue. And if we stop with all of the extra, we don't need anyone to tell us that we're bad, that. Or that we're less than. Like, we get that enough. So I just want to tell you, man, if you don't know how to talk to your kids, you don't know how to talk to your husband or wife anymore. Cool. It's just, it's just a tools issue. And all these questions for humans are just a tool. It's an excuse to get in a room and say, an intimacy deck. Hey, you used to really be into this in the bedroom. What are you into now? And we don't know how to ask that question without everybody blushing, right? Or I don't know how to connect with my 8 year old daughter. She feels like she's from another planet right now. And when I brought home the third edition of Parents and Kids, she went screaming for it because she wants to connect with her dad and she can feel in her nervous system he doesn't know how to do that. So that's, that's, that was the genesis of them. And then they've kind of taken a life of their own.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So they look like a deck of cards. You keep it in your purse and you keep it in your car and you always have something to go to. You keep them by the dinner table. And our kids love them. They want to be asked questions, they want to have these conversations. And I feel it too, John. It's like as screens infiltrate, then you, you start to lose those skill. What did we talk about before? And you just become more Accustomed to sitting in silence. And so There are over 10 options. These are a wonderful thing to add into your year.

[Unknown]

You're so great. I'm going to hire you. I'm going to hire you to. You're the best. Well. And I imagine you have people that will reach out to you, because with your extraordinary mission. And we're so aligned on it. Okay. I went outside and, like, we put the blanket out and I made a picnic. And, like, now we're all just staring at each other. Right. There's that. It's a skills gap. It's not a. You're a bad person. It's just a skills gap. It's cool, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Because society has really changed.

[Unknown]

It just changed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it used to be that kids just ran around.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think that when kids were out in the community and they would come back in for dinner, there was more to talk about because things happened, and now nothing happens. What are you going to talk about? How far you got on Fortnite? You know, there's nothing.

[Unknown]

Here's a beautiful analogy. My buddy, he lives here in Nashville. His name is Carlos Whitaker. He wrote a book called Reconnected, I think. But he got off screens for eight weeks. And he went. He may have even been on your show, but his. He went to visit the Amish and he told me that the meals were like two hours. And he said at one point, he looked over at the guy who he was staying with and he said, I'm done with my. Whatever. Steak and potatoes and salad. And the guy looked at him and said, you're done eating, but the meal's not over. And that sentence even in for me, I was like, oh, my gosh. That's it. Right? We're just gotten so efficient with everything that we've Efficient. We've efficiented ourselves to death. Is that a word? And we could make up a word.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we've forgotten how to be engaging.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With the people that are around us. And it's a skills gap. So these are fantastic questions for humans. I think they will enhance your life so much in 2025 and get you back on track with those types of things. Carlos said they did that for every meal. All three. They were long.

[Unknown]

So she's been on your show. Great, Great, great, great, great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, wonderful. I mean, what. What a concept. I think that there's so much to be learned there. You also talk about just getting out and doing stuff. You were the bronze medal in The Comanche County 4H.

[Unknown]

Is my highlight of 2024. Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, I want to know all about it.

[Unknown]

Well, I mean, I, I, I have two men in my life. One is my brother in law and one is a children's author who's extraordinary. And we disagree politically and we disagree on a lot of stuff. And we are united as a front in how we are all trying to intentionally raise our sons and daughters. And we've sat through each other and wept with each other and done hard things together. And so once a year we make a commitment to get our boys together so they can see their dads, have male friends so that we can do hard stuff together. And it just so happens that we're all hunters from Texas. And so me and my son cat get on a plane or we get in a car and we drive for hours and hours and hours and we all meet at this one place in Texas. Well, about four or five years ago, somebody found in this teeny tiny little town in Texas called Comanche, Texas, that there's a archery challenge. Yes, it's madhouse and I'm not great, but we all entered it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you meddled, so.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but that's because there was four people in the division. Right. So my buddy won the belt buckle, got first place. My son got first place in, he's 14 in the, in the 14 archery division for recurves. But that's because there was one entrant and it was him. Right. So it's a very small contest, but the 4H people are amazing. They're so great. And it's four hours outside. We're laughing at each other, making fun of each other. Everybody's getting tired. There's one always one kid that's shooting everything out into the woods and he's in a bad mood. Like it's just life. Right. And we all had a, we just had a blast. And then we went back that night and cooked over an open fire and we told stories too late and listened to old Willie Nelson song. It was just, it was a, it was like out of a movie. It was perfect. But it came with a significant amount of intentionality with three men who don't agree on everything, still love each other enough and still united enough and how we're raising our kids. So let's get everybody together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is good inspiration because you say, be with others, find community, make friends, dare to love, Dare to be loved. Well, how do we do that?

[Unknown]

Intentionally?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, this was in the aided adult division.

[Unknown]

That, that's, yeah. There's a special pat on the head if you use a recur I mean, if you use a compound bow, they're like, oh, that's cute. You need to be that far away to hit a deer. Okay, all right. Well, you get your own special. Special division.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you're out doing stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's super intentional. That's. That's exactly right. You got to be out. Yeah. You got to be out doing stuff. And it's uncomfortable, it's cold, it's hot, it's whatever. And it is what it is, what it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gives you stuff to talk about, stuff to remember and to think back on and to. You have shared experiences, so it's really important. You talk a lot about loneliness. You've got a phenomenal podcast. The Dr. John DeLoney show is a huge, huge show. People can listen in. You talk about loneliness quite a bit. People call in. People call in because they're lonely. They don't have anyone to talk to. It's really sad.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it breaks my heart, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I think that you and I may have talked about this the first, like, couple of episodes. I. I had nothing. I had no idea what I was getting into. And people will call and say, I'm struggling with sex intimacy. I'm struggling with my kids. I'm struggling with. My husband's got cancer. I don't know what to do. And I would always just say. And they started editing, editing it out that my team did, because I kept saying, whoa, why are you calling me? Call your friend. And a hundred percent of the time, the response was, dude, I don't have anybody. I don't have anybody I can talk to about this. And I remember early on thinking, oh, I thought people were listening to this show because of my ability to break down oxytocin and serotonin, and, like, no, no, no, no. They're calling the show because there's no one else to call. Like, they're desperate for trust. That's why people love you, because they trust you. You don't lie to people. And I think that's so rare these days that even if you disagree with the person, it's a magnet. Like, I want to be around that person because I just believe that at least they believe what they're saying. Right. And most people don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's interesting because you talked about skill sets, and this skill set of creating community is not something that we learn as children. We're just put in a position where community happens. Or maybe it doesn't happen because there's community breakdown, or you're fighting with your classmates, but you spend your entire childhood, 12 years, 13 years, where you're just set there, and no one says, well, this is how you do it. This is how you don't do it. And then you leave that environment, and if you don't go to college and you don't join a sorority, maybe you do something different. You don't go into the military. All of a sudden you're out of that prescribed environment that kind of did it for you. And then you have no skills.

[Unknown]

That's right. Well, and for those who just take a. What I would call like a linear. You go to school, and then you go to college and you graduate with a bachelor's degree, every moment of your life is curated for connection up until that point. And even if, like, you know, fifth grade, they line you up to play kickball, well, there's some of you that, like, that would be the greatest moment of your life. And some of you will hate kickball. And the people who hate kickball will all become people who. Those are your people. And then there's the person who strikes out ironically, and she has, like a My hello Kitty backpack on, and you're like, somebody will see her be like, oh, she's my people. And then they put you in music class, and you have Tata TT. There's a few kids, like, goofing off. There's a few kids that are like, these are my people. And then there's quite like, everything is curated for group projects and connection. And then we are wholly unprepared for walking across that graduation stage or graduating from the military or being 18 and just hitting the workforce when suddenly you realize at 21 or 22 years old, if I make a sale, it's because all of those people didn't make a sale. And now it's me versus everybody. If somebody listens to my podcast with the limited amount of time they have, it's because they didn't listen to the other billion podcasts that are out there. And we don't have a psychology for that. And we turtle up. And so we don't have the skills to say, hey, we're not designed for us to be one versus a billion. Right? We're. We're designed to have people in our corner, but that's just a skill that we don't have. It's just curated for us. And so you have. You get. You walk across the stage and you realize, I'm thrown into this very unforgiving adult, professional world. And, man, you end up. If you're like most people, you End up with these 14 mile text threads of your high school friends and your college friend. Like you're just trying to still hang on and it's just long memes and it's funny, but they're just junk calories. Right. It's like eating Twinkies all the time and not eating salad and steak. They'll prop you up man, but it, it'll kill you over time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what are we trying to do? We're trying to sort of recreate in a way a place where there's people so that you can find your people. You say real connection happens in person, has to be. And you can recreate that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you put the intention in and it will enhance your life while it's enhancing the life of your family, your kids. And then they're going to have the skill sets as they hit adulthood. Because one of the things you talk a lot about is parenting and you had said it was like a pretty big thing, like what do I really want for my kids? I want them to have a more whole life than I do. Which is like a big statement, you know, what do I want for them? Yeah, I want them to go further. I want them to be more grounded. Do you think that we're headed that way with our children?

[Unknown]

I'm just like a painfully obtuse optimist and so I think there's going to be a lot of hurt along the way. But I think some things that we just quadrupled down on is already run out of gas. I think there's with Jonathan Haidt just stomping on like all of us, you, me, everybody's been piling up on one side of the teeter totter against these massive. Every bit of your life should be lived on screens. And Hyatt was basically just an elephant that got dropped off top of a building on the other side of this teeter totter. I just got an email today from my kids private school that said we are mandating that the fourth and fifth graders go to a local university where Hyatt's going to be piped in talking about the dangers of screens, why we're all getting off and while the school's making policies that have no screens in the building.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Woohoo.

[Unknown]

Yeah, so I, I think that stuff's happening if you go look at. In fact I just ran across this this morning. If you google the word pornography, the most googled question is how to quit? How do I stop? And so I think that some of this unfettered chaos there's Going to be a wake of people damaged marriages, exploded households and all that is true. But I think that people inevitably, like, just like my 14 year old son, I'll say, like, hey, let's go out. And he's like, dad, I'm tired. I'm gonna go to bed. I'm not gonna feel good tomorrow. And that tells me I'm raising him right. Right. Because he's able to think past right this second, he's able to think about future him. Right. So I think that we're getting there. I think there's. It's gonna be a while and I think you dump AI on it. It may be the last bit of jet fuel on this other planet, this other world they're trying to get us to live. But yeah, I'm optimistic about it. But I think it's gonna be pretty painful getting there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I read that record stores, actual physical records, that they are exploding and it's an anomaly that people are wanting the real thing. They're wanting to touch their music. They don't want unlimited choices. They want to have something that they can sort through and put it on the record player.

[Unknown]

I got back into vinyl a couple years ago. Can I tell you the thing that has been the most revelatory moment about vinyl for me? I got into it like to be hip, you know, to be cool. Cause all the cool kids are getting these old punk records on vinyl. Listening on vinyl is you have to stay present with the music because it ends, you have to flip it over. And so you can't just put a playlist on and have it be background. You have to stay present with the music because when the last song is over, it's over and you got to flip the record over. And it has changed how I listen to music. I'm more. I'm more present in the house. And it's a strange. And again, your kids would just follow what feels good in their nervous system. And my kids are always putting records on, now putting records on, now putting. And so it's kind of rad. But again, it's one of those byproducts that, you know, I want to hold it, I want to touch it. That's all cool. You have to stay with it. If you have a tape, because the tape, you got to flip the tape over, right. And it's kind of. It's kind of awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Mm. And there's something to be said about having limited choices instead of unlimited choices, which can be overwhelming.

[Unknown]

Well, you know that like, yeah, our brains can't handle the choice we have it. Can't handle it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And it just explodes. So yeah, it's good stuff.

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Talk.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To us about friendships and our kids. So this is one of the things you talk about that is really deep. I've never heard anybody talk about this, John, that if we elevate our children to a level of friendship, it puts too much pressure on them. And you had said something about is 25. 25 is the age where your kid can become your peer. Talk to us about that and why 25.

[Unknown]

I mean, 25 is. That's probably 50 arbitrary and 50% just neurological. But I think that we have a culture that's absent of purpose and meaning. And our grandparents, My grandparents came home from World War II and they. They solved for peace, right? We know what evil looks like, and in the form of Nazis. We don't want that. And then they came home and worked their pain away. They were a culture of workaholics, and they built this country. It's amazing what they did as they channeled their pain and they passed along to my parents, the goal of life is wealth creation and wealth building. That is your role. That is your purpose. And they two people went to work. Everything got more expensive because it could. Everything got more technologically advanced. And everybody's trying to find their niche and their groove. And now you've got a group of a generation of people my age that are saying, dude, I just going to go get some chickens. Like, my parents aren't happy. They're all divorced. They're all. Or they're still married, but they're miserable. Like, it created a world I don't want. And so now you have this weird wholesale rejection of, like, going to work and working hard, which I think is insane too. And so I. I'm watching my son, his generation, his group of friends are. Seem to be a little more balanced. I think the jury is still out, but they're seeming to be like, hey, we want to, like, hang out with our friends and have a good life, and we want to find purpose in our work. But all that to say is, my generation is rudderless. And so the only thing that we have that makes us feel worthy, that we have value, is our children. And so ultimately, our children have become our idol. It's what we worship in our homes. There are walking report cards of how we're doing as people. If our kids are polite, we're doing great. If our kids make straight A's, we're doing great. If our kids starts on the. On whatever team they're on or the dance crew, we as parents are winning. And kids cannot carry that weight. They crumble under the burden of a household. And it's even as simple as, hey, where do you guys want to eat tonight? Think of, we were just talking about Choice psychology. Like their brain can't process 700 restaurants. How much money we have, what's our budget, how much time do we have? And so you instantly dump the weight of the, the rest of the night. And they've heard you, by the way, say, I don't like that place. That place is gross. I don't ever want to go there. The wait staff. So now you're asking a kid to regulate the temperature of their home. Just as simple. As simple as where do you guys want to eat? A different question is Chick Fil A or Arby's? Well, now a kid can, can grab that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What would you pick?

[Unknown]

Oh, man, that's Sophie's choice for me. If I, if I want to lie to myself and I make say I'm making healthy fast food choices, which I'm not, I'm going Chick Fil A. If I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to have six beef and cheddar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For $5. I feel like that's how much it would cost.

[Unknown]

It's. It's $3. It's $2.99. Yeah. I don't think a lot of an RV sandwich was ever alive at any point in the process. But man, it's so good. I know I'd go to Chick Fil A. That's where I eat mostly. But I, I think so. I, I think it's stepping back or here's a, here's one that buries kids. Hey, if you do that, you know your mom's gonna get mad. Hey, stop saying that. Your dad's gonna get home soon. And so what you're teaching a 9 year old or a 14 year old is, hey, you are responsible for the way the adults in this house feel. No kid can carry that weight. It's too heavy. And so I think it's backing all the way out and taking on the role of parents, which means you're gonna have annoyed kids and kids that are frustrated with you, kids that don't like you all the time. And that's part of being an adult and letting kids know, hey, you get one activity, what do you want it to be? Or you get one instrument and one sport. That's what you get. And you can pick. But I want now and then I have to deal with if I don't have my kids propping up my ego and my self worth, I gotta go find it with my spouse and with my church and with my work. So it does have a cascade of challenges. But I always weep for a Kid when their mom says, oh, this is my 16 year old. She's my best friend, I always just think, oh, God. 16 year old can't carry adult friendships. They can't carry that burden. It's too heavy. So you get to be 25. Great. Y'all are. If y'all are at that place, you could talk about money and you could talk about intimacy and you can roll your eyes. And there's a right balance between. I know dad's kind of making jokes about mom, but we all love. Like, if you can be there at 25, fine. My preference would be that you stay dad and you always give your kids an anchor point or you stay mom. And they always are anchored and they always know they're loved and safe and y'all can laugh and have fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I like that. I like that you said 25, because, you know, if you're thinking it's 18 and you've got a 16 year old, which is what we have, you would think that's right around the corner. But no, it's a reminder that there is a long ramp here and there's a longer ramp than they used to be. I just read this book that said adolescence was, what, 13 to 18, maybe 12. Adolescence 12 to 18, then you're out. You're gonna go do your adult life.

[Unknown]

It's 10 to 30 now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, yes. Eight. Eight to 28 is what.

[Unknown]

Gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that is what the kids are saying, like, when do you become an actual adult? And they're saying 26. That's what they think. So. Wow, that ramp has gotten longer.

[Unknown]

Well, and I also think it sounds cheesy, but I think there's part going back to that archery competition we had. There is no marker.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, no ritual.

[Unknown]

No ritual. Yeah. And that's been written on a thousand times, but it's usually something cheesy, like some dads will take their sons out in the. In the woods with a sword. Right? Like, if that's. If that's what you want to do, fine. I like the idea of doing it in community over a period of time. And then there will be a. There will be a moment. Right? So the one thing I didn't talk about with the Comanche thing is my buddy who's a writer, reads poetry to those kids. And this dude is a gangster Texan. Like, he is a rancher. He's a hard, hard man. And he writes poetry. Teaches those boys about writing poetry. And another guy talks philosophy and politics. And I write my son these long, emotional letters, and I Read them in front of everybody. And so they get to see different flavors of adult men communicating the, what I would call the quote unquote, other side of masculinity in a way that's different, but it's, it's unique and authentic to each of us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't remember the book I read where it was talking about that the adolescence has extended so much. But one of the questions was, is it extending? In part because they haven't actually gotten a childhood. I was like, ooh, that's pretty deep.

[Unknown]

Such a great question. I, I think it's all one big thing. Yeah. They're professional kids at the age of six.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So they're hanging on to it.

[Unknown]

You need to take this class and be on the select soccer team. Otherwise when you're nine. Otherwise when you're 14. Otherwise when you're 17. It's all right. It's all coming down.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

My 14 year old took the PSAT. Didn't, didn't get, I mean it was, it broke my heart. And him and I haven't sat down and talked about it. We'll talk about this weekend when we're out in the woods. He took the psat. Several of his friends just not hit a home run. Hit it out of the stadium. Right. Like colleges are calling his 14 year old a couple of his 14 year old friends. He did outstanding, but it wasn't insane. And his mom was Dr. Deloney before me. His dad's got two PhDs, we got two masters. Like we have earn over over educated family. And if my son doesn't want to go to college, he wants to go automotive school. I'll be a thousand percent behind him. He just has to do with excellence. Right. So it's not that principle. But he came to us after he got his scores back and said, hey, there's this program in Tennessee for community colleges. And here's what he was doing in his head. He's already creating a plan for I'm not good enough for this. And I wanted to tell them, bro A, there's not a hierarchy. Some of the smartest people on the planet I know work in and have graduated from community colleges. Those are amazing opportunities. And don't judge the rest of your future intellectual success on a pre test you took when you were 14 years old after a cross country. Like, it's just, it's. I hate how much pressure these kids have. It's insane. They have no childhood. And by the way, they have no adulthood. We treat 40 year olds like children now. Right. You see people in the mall or out in the marketplace or at concerts, and I can't tell which one's 17 and which one's 44. They're wearing the same clothes. There's no differentiation. And it's just this one long, extended gooey. And I just don't think that's good for. It's not how we're designed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know who talked about that is Neil Postman.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He wrote a book in 1982 called the Disappearance of Childhood.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he also wrote another one called Amusing Ourselves to Death. And it was about how television blurred the lines between adulthood and childhood because it used to be that it was reading. And so if you're seven, you can't read that adult book that has that more adult content in it. And then all of a sudden, television came in and it passed the same thing out to everyone, whether you're three or whether you're 35.

[Unknown]

I like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he said there used to be, like, adult clothes and kids clothes. It was very distinctive and that kids needed that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And screens have changed it. They call it the largest social media, the largest conformity engine ever created. And it's blurring the lines between childhood and adulthood.

[Unknown]

Gosh, that's so good. So good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So a lot to think about there with our kids. And your son, 14. He's in the US versus them. Already.

[Unknown]

Already, already, already. He knows. Oh, I'm not. I can't cut it here. I need to. I need to get an off ramp. Like, I'm bro. Go. You have homecoming coming up. Let's have fun with that. Right. Like, dear, season starts next week. Let's have fun with it. Like, don't already. Project failure four years in into the future.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And there's a lot of ways to have a good life.

[Unknown]

There's a m. Well, and it's. It's just ludicrous. Kane Coleman, He's a close friend. He's been on your show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love Ken. I love all of his career stuff. Yeah, John, I. I did the career assessment this past year.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of his career assessments. And it actually changed my life. Okay, so here's the story. I came down to see you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, we were in Tennessee, and Josh had reached out because a bunch of the Dave Ramsey people had been on our show. So Rachel and Jade and Ken and you had been on. And Josh was like, I'm going to reach out to see if you can go on their shows. And I was like, well, surely they'll say no. You know, you got Your call in show. I was like, whatever.

[Unknown]

No way, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So then you said yes. And I was like, oh, this is a little nerve wracking. We're going to go. So while we were there, we ran into Ken and Ken's friends with friends of ours. You know, there's a lot of connections there. And he had that book, it's called find the work you're wired to do. It was coming out the next day. And so last minute, he came on the show and I took the career assessment and he walked through my results with me in this call. And I got so emotional because, well, one of mine was entertaining and I speak around the country. Like, I was like, it was very validating and also gave me a lot of direction in terms of, like, these are things I should be working on and I never have.

[Unknown]

There you go. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I've read all these books about improv now my whole life.

[Unknown]

Yes. I started living. I live at the comedy club now. That's where I live. Wow. That's what those guys like. They're the best. And it's a laboratory. Right. I live there now. They gave me my own table. Like, I live there because of that very reason. Like, oh, this is what I do. This is the. This is the furniture making that I do. This is my craft. And I got to get good at it.

[Jenny Urich]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And, yeah, good for you. But here's the. Here's what's beautiful. Ken left the university he was at to start a. Join a political campaign because he's a brilliant. That guy could speak. We share a cubicle. My cubicle is connected to kids. No degree. Two PhDs. We have the same job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Unknown]

And I will now, I will let my son know. He doesn't know this. I got straight A's in High School. 0times. Not one time. 0times did I get straight A's in high school. It never happened. Undergraduate, I got straight A's zero times, not one time. And I did not make anything below an A in graduate school. So all that to say is like a. That's a problem with graduate school. It's too easy. But the, the. That's a whole other podcast. But beneath that is go do the next right thing that you want to do. And like all these people telling you it has to be this path or has to be that they. It's. It's wrong, it's false. I live it every single day of my life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's too narrow. My favorite person on the Internet, which is a big statement. I talk to a lot of people over 400 is named Hannah Maruyama. She's married to this Hawaiian, and she has a podcast with her husband named the Degree Free Podcast. And I think it's the most powerful one out there because she is showing that there's so many different paths to the life that you want. And I think a lot of the decisions that we make, we back into them because we've been sold that there's only one narrow path. You have to do good on the PSAT when you're 14 so that you can get the college to call you. And she's like, no, only 7% of jobs legally require a colle degree. Legally, 7%. That means 93% you can get the skills and the training. She says you apply no matter what. They don't really know what they're looking for unless it's legally required, you apply.

[Unknown]

I love that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he has all these great stories about how the kid who has no degree goes and is killing it at their sales job, and then he's doing so well, they hire him an assistant, and the assistant is from the college. You know, it's like, yeah, it's great.

[Unknown]

Well, I, I, I remember in grad school smiling because I went back to grad school as an old guy, and I remember I was, we had this guy from the community, had a real successful therapy practice, and everyone's asking these questions like, how do you deal with secondary trauma? And how do you this and what about the diagnostics? How many more ADHD cases? And kind of crassly, I raised my hand in this little seminar and said, in this community that we live in the city of about350,000 people, how do you make six figures as a therapist in the room? It's kind of, kind of a crass question among mental health professionals because we're all altruistic and we're only in this to help, right? How do you make six figures and be a therapist? And he sat there quietly for a minute, as a good therapist did, and he said, I'll answer that, but you're not going to like my answer. And I said, I thought I knew where he was going to go with it. I thought he was going to say, you can't. That's not why we do this. Instead, he answered, you become very, very good at the art of counseling, and you work really, really hard. And I just sat back in my chair and laughed. And I was like, that's the exact thing I would tell a brick mason or a roofer or a attorney or Anything. And so I think the path is important. And if you run up, I don't want my. You know, I don't want my surgeon to have learned his or her trade on YouTube. Right. I want them to go to med school for nine years. Like, and that's just me. I don't want my attorney to have learned their skills. Like, so there's. There's some professions there. Right? Or an architect. Right. Someone who's built the engineer. I want them to know how. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. That's the 7%. Right.

[Unknown]

But find the path and become very, very good at what you do, and be prepared to work very, very, very hard. I think maybe the. The dissolution of the. There's only one path is everybody thought there was a hack, and there's not a hack. You got to work really hard, and you go sit in a comedy club and watch those dudes bomb. The jokes don't land, and they. You're just in the audience, you hurt for them, right? And they're just iron sharpening iron. They're getting better and better and better at what they do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the other thing that she talks about is we don't even know what careers are out there. So this is a big piece. She says that most kids can only name eight careers.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they're all the same.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like, teacher, doctor, lawyer. So she said, we have no vocational creativity. So one of her exercises is to take any item in your house. And we did this around the dinner table. The paper towel roll, which I guess people would judge us for because maybe it's disposable. We should be using.

[Unknown]

Let's get canceled. Let's get canceled.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, Here we go. But we do have a paper towel roll. It's like, well, how many jobs go into getting that paper towel roll from manufacturing to our table?

[Unknown]

What a fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, there's so many.

[Unknown]

Yes. My buddy who's a banker, I remember he told me the single greatest transfer he's ever made was for somebody to buy a helicopter with cash. And I said, what does that guy do? Is he like. He ran a tile company. They made tile. And that was like, that moment where I went. That never occurred to me that that guy makes $17 million a year selling tile. And then you think of shingles and you think of nails, and you think of, like, the little wood strips that go in your. Between your sidewalks when they pour concrete. Like, oh, my gosh. There's opportunity everywhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was in a helicopter, not a helicopter. I've never been in a helicopter.

[Unknown]

Neither I'm. I will never get in a helicopter. No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Never.

[Unknown]

No. I'd rather set my feet on fire than get in a helicopter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, Too dangerous.

[Unknown]

I'm so scared of heights. I'm just a coward. I don't like being on a ladder. That's my. That's my one thing. My kids make fun of me. That's. That's my one thing. When I go deer hunting, I'm up in a tree. I'm basically chained to that tree. I am so secure, a new tornado could come through, and I would. I'm going to be. Wherever that tree ends up is where I'll be, because I'm fixed to that tree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so, all right. You've never been in a helicopter neither. Right. But I have been in an elevator. That's what I meant to say. So I was in an elevator at this conference. I was at one time, and I was in an elevator with this family. It was like a parent and two kids, and they were, like, really into the elevator, John. Now they're, like, looking around at it. I was like, what do they know that I don't know? It turns out they designed interiors of elevators, and that was their job. They were entrepreneurs, and they had their own company, and they knew where to get the parts. And, like, all the codes, they all have to be up to code. Every elevator that you get in is different. Someone designed that.

[Unknown]

And somebody somewhere is an attorney who works on the licensing rights, taking pop songs so they can be transferred into elevator versions. Like, that's a nice job. Right? So, yeah, it's amazing. There's so many opportunities and path. But it's. You're still. You should have to get real good at what you do and work really, really hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

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Kids, there's so much to consider. Things like what do we feed them? When do we feed them? How do they sleep? What does it look like to raise kind kids? How does their nervous system work? How do I keep myself calm? What are my triggers? There's so much that comes into play and we are distilling all of that information for you at Voices of your Village podcast, where we bring experts in the field of early childhood and education and psychology and across the board so that you don't have to comb the Internet for information. You get to show up and hang out and have shame free judgment, free conversations and insights into what it looks like to raise kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent human humans. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I have a master's degree in early childhood education. I'm a mom of two and I am walking this journey right alongside you doing this work. Come hang out with me at Voices of your Village and we can dive into real conversations with actionable tips.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let's totally switch gears about yelling.

[Unknown]

You're picking up all of my soapboxes. I love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, this is a big deal. I learned. Let me tell you where I learned about it. I used to teach high school. I taught high school math. And before I taught high school, I read a book called Teaching with Love and Logic. And in the book I learned that when you yell at someone, they just get mad at you and they don't internalize what they've done wrong. So they gave the example of if you get pulled over by a cop and the cop is like, you're awful. You know, you're an awful driver. You're an awful person. The story that you're going to tell is about this cop that they yelled at you if you get pulled over and they're like, look, you know, I'm so sorry, I gotta give you this ticket. You know, you're over the speed limit, you're gonna internalize what you've done wrong and hopefully change. And that changed me. And I going into a high school classroom, I didn't want to be the type of person that yelled and lost control. It's a big deal, right? Nobody wants to do what you want them to do. So there's a game that you're playing there. And so I learned through many years just to stay calm and to say I had like little key phrases. It comes from the loving logic, like, you know, that's a bummer, or you just kind of repeat yourself. Very even keel calm. And nothing ever turned into chaos. So I feel like I had an advantage toward parenting. And I think what you're saying, it's logical. Not only is it important for the climate of your home, but it's like also what works. So can you talk to us about how to change that? If that's something that I think a lot of parents are like, I wish I yelled less.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think, I think what you just said is so powerful that if everyone could just rest in that for a second. Because most people, if they yell, and I come from a very loud, loud household, which is I've, I've hit the pendulum too far the other way. If you yell a lot and somebody mentions it, you instantly divert to shame. Because I think we all know. And so if everyone will just sit for a second in what you just said, and let's get real practical about it, when a voice gets raised, especially from a 0 to about a 16, maybe 17 year old, the moment a voice gets raised, any learning is over, it's ended. A child is in fight or flight, they are in survival mode and they will hunker down, they'll freeze, they'll just start screaming or they will scream back at you. When an adult in the, in a child's life yells, it's a declaration of war to the nervous system. So if you want your child to not get hit by a car, scream your head off. That will jolt their attention. That's the most common response I get when I talk about yelling. Oh, yeah, if my kid's gonna get hit by truck? Well, yes, yell as loud as you can. Scream, yell, throw things, do everything. But in your home, if you want to show your kids how big and powerful you are, okay, scream. If you want your kids behavior to change, if you want them to learn to do things differently, they have to have a regulated adult in their life. And so if you find yourself yelling, if you find yourself screaming, almost always that comes from a sense of powerlessness. And if you've engaged with a power struggle with the child, you've already lost. Getting into a fight with a kid is a losing battle. You can't win that fight. And even if you get them to do the thing, get them to clean their plate or empty that dishwasher and it comes on the back end of a fight, trust me, you have lost. You've lost. And so I think it's recognizing the utility or the lack of utility of yelling. It simply doesn't work. The second thing is, I don't know anybody who yells and screams at their kids who want to. And so I want to challenge everybody to put your fist in your chest and look in the mirror and say the words, I like this guy, I like this girl, I like this woman. And if you can't say that, go talk to somebody. Because I want you to deal with the powerlessness thing that you feel, because you probably felt that way a long, long, long time. Probably all the way back to when you're a kid. But that's almost always the root of yelling is growing up in a world where you have no. You've got no agency in what happens next. And the only way you learn to get agency is to get other people around you to go to defreeze and. Or to fight by screaming, by getting loud. And by the way, there is an alternative side to this. In counseling, they call that the one up position. The screaming, the yelling, the beating your chest. I will get my way. There's a one down position that parents do also. And this is. I'm. I'm the worst of this. My wife clowned me on it. We all know usually it's a mom, an elderly mom, who will say something like, the kids will say, what do you want to eat? And the kids be like, oh, tacos. Like, yeah, let's go to tacos. And then mom will say, oh, oh, oh, okay, you know what? Y'all go get tacos. I've got some Dairy Queen napkins in the glove compartment. I'll just eat those. And y'all just go have your fun. Everyone stops. They're like, oh, where do you want to eat, mom? Like, oh, no, no, no, it's okay. I don't want to be the fun ruiner. That is somebody screaming their head off. I want to get my way. But they do it quietly in my house. My wife calls it Sunday afternoon, dad. And she said, you never yell. You're always calm. And everybody knows on Sundays when you're tired, don't go in that room. And then when she says, hey, what's wrong? I get all indignant like, oh, I'm not even yelling. And she's like, no, no, you have a nuclear reactor in your chest. We all know. We all know. And so I think it's. It can be about either one. At the end of the day, it's about if you feel powerless in your own house, if you feel like your voice doesn't matter, if you feel like you don't know how to say, if your grandma and all the kids are saying, I want tacos. If you don't, you can't say, tacos make my stomach hurt. It gives me indigestion. We're going to get burgers. I want to get burgers. And then duke it out that way. If you can't do that in your own house and your relationships, that's the problem. That's what we need to go address and deal with and not deal with it on the fringes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You say, behavior is a language. Behavior is a language. Really? I think the. The thread here tying all of this together is that we are severely lacking skills.

[Unknown]

Skills.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're lacking skills in building relationships. We're lacking skills in talking to our children. We' lacking skills and knowing what to do instead of yelling. Those love and logic books are phenomenal. Like, they say, you just have to have a couple key phrases. I actually used to have them written out on my kitchen cover because it was, the kids will be like, I'm bored. And as a mom, you're like, you're freaking out because you feel, like, guilty. You're also like, that's annoying that they're fussing. And they say just to say it's okay to be bored, it's okay. And you just say it over and over again in this very monotone voice. You're empathetic, right? You're empathizing. And eventually they get bored of what you're saying. Or you throw in, like, well, that's great. Can you help me match socks? You know, and then they don't want to do that, so they're going to go find something else to do. But it's a skill set.

[Unknown]

Can I hop in real quick? What you just said is so, so, so, so important. When our kids say the words, I'm bored. For some reason, in our culture, we have taken on the burden of that. We've taken that shame. Either I need to curate a life for my kid where they're not bored, I don't make enough money, and if I could, they could get the device they wanted, or I've got some ungrateful kid who. No, they're just 12, and they say the words, I'm bored. Like, it's, it's. It's keeping yourself. It's our job as adults to not just dump into shame, dump into. I've got to numb this. These feelings. Right. So we run around. A lot of the stuff we do is not for our kids. It's for us to feel better. And that's important. Good. Thank you for calling that. Sorry for interrupting, but that's so, so important.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean. Well, that reminds me of this book.

[Unknown]

It's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's by Kim Jong Payne, and he wrote it with Luis Fernando Yosa, and it's called Beyond Winning. And it's about toxic youth sports culture, which I never would have read because we weren't really into the sports culture. But I picked it up because I love Kim Jong Payne and Luis. And so I'm reading this book. It's phenomenal. I mean, every parent should read it. He has a statement in there, and it says, when your kids are bored, you have not failed. I was like, come on, that's it.

[Unknown]

That's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everybody needs to put that up in their home. Put it on a big old banner.

[Unknown]

That's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's okay for them to be bored. And also, you need to have the skill sets of what to do when they're getting on your nerves. And so the Love and Logic books help. Michaeline Duclef has a book called Hunt Gather Parent, where she has traveled the world and seen how people parent in different cultures. And she says, in other cultures, they don't yell. And when somebody yells, the parent is the one who's getting the flack for it. They'll say things like, you're acting like a toddler.

[Unknown]

That's what you are. That's what it is. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do they do? They take the toddler to the window and they say, you see the mountains.

[Unknown]

Look at the clouds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, they redirect. So the skill sets. We miss them. We're, like, not living in community anymore. There's this big hole because the screens came in, and no one had ever had to deal with that before. So what's a really cool thing about you, John? And when I came in person. I saw it. You had a bag full of books. Yeah, yeah, we had a bag full of books, which is uncommon. And I think that is the key. Like, we have to be reading these books because we don't have the skill sets that we need, and they're going to help us. So tell us what you're reading or give us a couple books that might kick us off in a good direction.

[Unknown]

Golly. Well, the book I'm reading right now is a book I should have read 25 years ago. It's called Empire the Summer Moon, about the Comanche nation. And it's a really gruesome read, but it's a. I think everyone should have to read it. It's very tough to get through if you're pretty sensitive to the violence, but it dispels a lot. But it's a. It's a masterpiece. That's what I'm working through right now. And the two biggest nerdy places where I'm living right now is. I think it was 18 months ago, maybe 24 months ago, I was at a book signing line and somebody asked me a question, and I have a bad habit over the years of somebody asks a single question and it wormholes, and I can't stop it. And I end up with another degree because I just chase it and chase it and chase it and chase it. But they asked me a question. They said, hey, is marriage still worth it? And I started into a kind of a canned answer, like, well, yeah, you know, it's the best. And he's like, whoa, I know you're. Your marriage has been hard, but you've stuck it out. And you say it's worth it. But like, is it still worth it? And dude, I didn't have a great. I didn't have a math answer. I didn't have a tax answer. I didn't have an answer answer. And so I have been going down every stinking a rabbit hole on planet Earth. I got back to the office and said, go to Amazon and order every book with the word marriage in it. And the woman who does that, she was like, that's a lot of books. I was like, get every one of them. So that's where I'm at right now, to the point that they're all starting to blur together. I remember in grad school, I remember asking a professor, how do you know when you've read enough on a subject? And they said, when? Two things. One, when you pick up the author and you already know about what they're going to say, About a thing, then you've saturated or when it be starts to stream together, when you start to be able to paint a full picture of an issue and you can. You can give the arguments of positions you don't agree with better than the people who would make those arguments, you begin to know a subject. So I'm just reading everything I can get my hands on it. And spoiler alert, I think it may be the last Great Hope is a reimagination.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you say it a lot. Yeah, you say it a lot. It's worth it. The two books that you were reading when I was there, and I was like, super nosy into the books that you had, or the Wounded Healer and John Mark Comer Practicing the Way. I tell you what, the book that I'm reading that has changed my mind the most about marriage, and I'm talking to the author right after this is named Warren Farrell. And he wrote this book called the Boy Crisis. And I had no idea. I had no idea that this would affect my views on marriage, but it totally did, because I feel like as a culture, we sort of feel like men are dispensable, especially now that women can make more money.

[Unknown]

Hey, that other thing. I got everything about marriage, and it has led me to. I bought everything about answering the question, are men still needed? That's so I'm. I'm right there. I mean, good gosh, that's perfect.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it says. I mean, dads are. The statistics are unbelievable.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then the amount of, you know, kids in juvenile detention centers, grades, reading, it's everything. It's every marker. And the mom does not affect those numbers like the dad does. And so I thought, look, you know, our marriage is a little tricky. And I talk about that, you know, briefly on here. We struggle, we butt heads. And sometimes I feel like this is my honest thought I could do this on my own.

[Unknown]

Yes, absolutely. I've thought that I have to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so this book has changed my mind the most. So I love what you write. You're like, it is worth it. And if you read this book, the Boy Crisis, why Our Boys Are Struggling and what We Can do about it. And then you had a new book that came out called Role Mate to Soulmate. He says the biggest problem is in marriage is that we cannot take correction without being defensive.

[Unknown]

Yep, that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was like, okay, that's. That is probably the biggest problem in our marriage.

[Unknown]

So anyway, well, like the two man. We're in this. If it's okay, here's the. This is as fresh as it could be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

The two big, massive revelations I've had since reading all this stuff. One is, if you like the single number one defining trait, and it's not what I thought it would be. I thought it had been socioeconomic. I thought it'd been religious. It's not. It is. Can y'all be friends? And when I dug into what that actually means, I have a buddy named John who leaves cans out all the time. Not one time I've made fun of him. I've laughed at him. I've yelled at him, pick up your cat. Not one time have I left John's house wondering, what is he trying to say about. About our friendship? Like, if he. If he knew we were really friends, he. I've never one time done that. That. That guy has stood between me and a guy who was really trying to hurt me. Like, he is a friend, and so that's a part of him. But when my wife leaves the towels out, it's if she really loved me. So we. Oh, we put so much drama on it. And then the other big one is for all of human history, and you can edit this out of this. I don't. I don't know the. The. The direction for your. For your audience here, but I'll use the word intimacy, but y'all know what I mean. Intimacy cost a woman an insane amount of risk, whether it was death and childbirth, whether it was. You are now tasked with another being forever. And so to be intimate, you had to have assurance of social safety. On the other hand, men get destroyed socially. If I was to go. And I have a meeting after this, if I was to go to that meeting, I was like, hey, guys, before we get going, can I just tell you that my feelings have been hurt? They'd be like, all right, all right, man. And they would never ask me to lunch. They would like. It would be like, bro, I did start crying that meeting. And so men understand they are able to be socially safe after physical intimacy, after they have had connection. And so you have two people. Men judge the barometer of their relationship with the number of times they're intimate. Women judge the barometer of the relationship how I feel socially. And neither of us are speaking the same language. We go right past each other. It's biology. It's been that way for jillions of years. And all of a sudden, we flip the switch. And so If I understand, 15 years ago, my wife told me, the single most erotic thing you can do for me is not the gym. It is not Your bank account, she calls it chit chat. Will you just be in here? And I was like, good gosh. What? No one ever in a locker room told me that, like, ever, ever. Right. Will you just be with me? And I'd be like, okay, I trust that you're. There you go. That's right. All the way. Full circle. But those two things have been the biggest revelation to me so far. We over dramatize and over complicate a really important relationship.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It really matters. This Warren says every 1% reduction in family fragmentation would save taxpayers $1.1 billion a year. A year.

[Unknown]

Have you read Richard Reeves of Boys and Men?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Unknown]

Make that the next book you read. Yeah, I think it's the most important book I've read in a while. Terry Real talks about the. In I don't want to talk about it, which is my number two of all time. That if you. If you look at normal mental health diagnostic breakdowns, that women are always diagnosed more with depression and anxiety. So it looks like a very feminine illness. But he said if you look at. If you look at failure rates, if you look at violence, if you look at incarceration rates, they're almost even Steven. And so what we've been doing is trying to. We haven't looked at how men metabolize depression and anxiety. And so, yeah, everybody's hurting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I tell you what, the takeaway is here. There's so much to learn. And so you gotta hang on, hang in, don't quit, stick with it. Come and check out your podcast, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. You talk about all of these things. I mean, I had so many more notes here. You talk about marriage, you talk about, you know, just being a fan of your spouse, showing your kids what a loving, real marriage and a healthy marriage looks like. You talk about conflict, you talk about moving past hardships, you talk about self control is the boldest flex of all. You don't have to respond so much. Dr. Johnson. You are putting so much good out into the world. This has been such an honor. I remember the first time that you said yes. I was like, no way. And hear you on for a second time.

[Unknown]

Hold on. Can I tell you this?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You have like our. The time you came and spent on my show. I'm different now because of that. And I can say, like, on a very small number of people, like you and Arthur Brooks and Carlos, like, there's very few people that I talk to and have an engaged conversation with that I leave and like, my life's gonna be different. Now, because I got to spend time with that person. And so, like, it's. It's tough for you to pack up the whole gang and come on down here. But I want to thank you because you're one of the. The angels on my shoulder now, and there's six or seven of you. But, like, we have been inside too much. We are just too much screen, and it's. I would have blown past that, and I would have over complicated and over academized it, and you gave me some language that will pay dividends in my family tree. So I just want to thank you for having the courage to come speak all over the place on this important topic. And I've got a. Trying to think of the right word. I got a very loyal listener base. And so you coming in and saying, hey, there's some other ways to look at something so good. Thank you. Thank you for changing my household, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow. What a thing. What a thing. And it was so fun because we called Michael Easter while we were there because we had brought our rucksacks.

[Unknown]

Michael, one of the greatest guys in the world.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He is. And there are so. He's got a new book coming out. There are so many amazing things that we can do to enhance our lives that are simple, you know, the real connection. And you have put out all the resources to do that. You kicked us off into 2024 last year and kicking us off into 2025 again this year. What an honor. What a blessing. Sheila, too. I mean, come on. We got to be reading good stories. And so you got this, like, you know, dynamic family that's making it happen for everyone. Thank you so much for being here.

[Unknown]

People come stay with us, and we go to bed, like, at 8, 45 or 9, and they're like, we thought there'd be a disco ball in here. It's like, nah, we're nerds, man. We are nerds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thought you'd be playing me some shredding guitar solos.

[Unknown]

We are nerds. But, hey, you're. You're a saint in the blessing, and literally hundreds of thousands of families are different because of you. So thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thanks, John.