1KHO 403: Make Your Mornings Something More | Jeff Sanders, The 5 A.M. Miracle

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast – Episode 1KHO 403: Make Your Mornings Something More | Jeff Sanders, The 5 A.M. Miracle

Release Date: December 27, 2024

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Introduction and Guest Profile

In episode 403 of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast, host Ginny Urich, founder of 1000 Hours Outside, welcomes Jeff Sanders, the multifaceted host of The 5 A.M. Miracle Podcast, founder and CEO of 5am Miracle Media, productivity coach, author of The 5am Miracle: Free Time Formula, and the founder of the Rockin Productivity Academy. Jeff brings a wealth of experience in productivity coaching, authoring impactful books, and developing courses aimed at maximizing personal and professional efficiency.

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The Power of Mornings

Intentional Wake-Up

Jeff Sanders emphasizes the transformative power of intentional mornings. He shares his personal journey of shifting from late mornings filled with stress and rush to early mornings that set a positive tone for the entire day.

“I realized it was kind of pointless. Why am I waking up at the last second just to have to rush through my morning routine…and feel behind schedule?” – Jeff Sanders [01:30]

Foundation of Productive Habits

Jeff recounts how changing his morning routine became the cornerstone of his brand. By dedicating early hours to meaningful activities, he experienced enhanced energy and productivity.

“It was just this amazing feeling of my morning has value now… and then I would get to work feeling energized, feeling excited.” – Jeff Sanders [02:08]

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Structuring the Day

Planning the Day

Jeff introduces the importance of crafting a written plan for each day. This practice fosters intentionality, enabling one to prioritize tasks and streamline daily activities effectively.

“Creating an intentional written plan for your days is everything. It’s a number one strategy for achieving your own 5am miracle.” – Ginny Urich [11:23]

Morning Focus

He advocates for dedicating morning hours (7 AM to 12 PM) to high-priority tasks when mental alertness is at its peak. This block of time is reserved for activities that require intense focus and creativity.

“My morning is my most intense focus blocks. Let’s get to it.” – Jeff Sanders [15:05]

Afternoon Relaxation

Post-lunch hours are designated for less demanding tasks and personal downtime. Jeff incorporates meditation to transition smoothly from high-intensity work to a calmer afternoon state.

“I shift the rhythm of the day to say the morning is my most intense focus.” – Jeff Sanders [15:05]

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Managing Sleep and Routines

Shift in Sleep Patterns

Jeff explains the significance of aligning sleep schedules to maximize daytime productivity. By going to bed earlier, he reallocates evening hours to productive morning activities.

“If you go to bed early and wake up early, then those same couple of hours in the evening are now me awake early in the morning and I’m doing something active.” – Jeff Sanders [07:57]

Light and Energy

Exposure to natural light in the early morning enhances energy levels and sets a positive tone for the day.

“When I wake up at sunrise… it’s a miraculous experience to be able to say, like, it’s just me, the sunrise, some birds chirping, let’s go do something cool.” – Jeff Sanders [09:18]

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Task Management Tools

Nozbe and Productivity Systems

Jeff underscores the importance of effective task management tools, highlighting Nozbe as his preferred choice. He describes how Nozbe, based on David Allen's Getting Things Done methodology, helps him organize and prioritize tasks seamlessly.

“Nozbe is a task manager based on David Allen’s Getting Things Done book and methodology. It’s basically list based… it gives me this sense of real clarity.” – Jeff Sanders [39:17]

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Advanced Strategies

Music for Productivity

Music plays a pivotal role in Jeff’s productivity strategy. He differentiates between background music for monotonous tasks and focused music for creative endeavors, recommending services like Brain.fm tailored to enhance concentration.

“Brain fm is an awesome service. It’s written by neuroscientists… it helps people get into their task and not feel the need to be distracted.” – Jeff Sanders [45:25]

Standing Desks

Embracing movement throughout the day, Jeff advocates for standing desks to boost energy, improve digestion, and enhance overall productivity. He shares his positive experience with Uplift Desks, highlighting their adjustability and ergonomic benefits.

“A standing desk is a game changer because you can adjust these from sitting to standing and customize the exact height you want.” – Jeff Sanders [46:28]

Gravity Boots

An unconventional yet intriguing strategy, gravity boots are part of Jeff’s fitness and wellness routine. While acknowledging the risks, he emphasizes the benefits of inversion therapy for perspective and physical health.

“Gravity boots require more physicality, they are more dangerous. But you have a ton of range of motion… it changes your perspective on life.” – Jeff Sanders [49:20]

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Incorporating Fun and Transitions

Play Hard Concept

Jeff challenges the traditional work-hard, play-hard paradigm by advocating for intentional fun integrated into daily routines. He believes that balancing productivity with enjoyable activities fosters sustained motivation and prevents burnout.

“I have to be intentional taking care of myself… I need to love what I’m doing sometimes.” – Jeff Sanders [55:37]

Evening Transitions

Creating clear boundaries between work and personal life, Jeff practices shutting off work gadgets and engaging in relaxing activities to ensure a smooth transition to bedtime.

“I have to turn off the laptop, turn off the phone…and find an evening activity that allows me to shift my energy.” – Jeff Sanders [21:43]

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Recommended Reading

Jeff recommends several books that have significantly influenced his productivity and personal growth philosophy:

1. Essentialism by Greg McKeown

   “If it isn't a clear yes, then it's a clear no.” – Jeff Sanders [28:49]

2. The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan

   “What is the one thing such that by doing it, everything else is easier or unnecessary?” – Jeff Sanders [27:52]

These books emphasize prioritization, minimalism, and focusing on core activities to enhance productivity and fulfillment.

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Personal Insights and Stories

Jeff shares a heartfelt memory from his childhood as a Boy Scout, illustrating his longstanding appreciation for the outdoors and how early experiences shaped his current values.

“One of the very first campouts… I left the tent flap open and it snowed in my tents while I was sleeping. I have this very clear memory of being freezing cold and somehow still loving that weekend.” – Jeff Sanders [58:48]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Jeff Sanders provides actionable insights into optimizing morning routines, managing daily tasks, and integrating advanced productivity strategies. His emphasis on intentional living, balanced with purposeful fun, offers listeners a comprehensive guide to transforming their daily lives.

“If you have something that matters most to you, put that first in your morning. And then everything else just falls into place.” – Jeff Sanders [time not specified]

Resources:

• Jeff Sanders' Website: jeffsanders.com
• The 5 A.M. Miracle Podcast: Available on all major podcast platforms
• Recommended Books:
  • Essentialism by Greg McKeown
  • The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan

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Notable Quotes:

1. “I have to turn off the laptop, turn off the phone… and find an evening activity that allows me to shift my energy.” – Jeff Sanders [21:43]
2. “If it isn't a clear yes, then it's a clear no.” – Jeff Sanders [28:49]
3. “Brain fm is written by neuroscientists… it helps people get into their task and not feel the need to be distracted.” – Jeff Sanders [45:25]
4. “What is the one thing such that by doing it, everything else is easier or unnecessary?” – Jeff Sanders [27:52]

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This episode of The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast provides a wealth of knowledge for anyone looking to enhance their productivity, manage their time effectively, and lead a more intentional and fulfilling life. Jeff Sanders' insights, backed by his personal experiences and professional expertise, offer practical strategies that listeners can implement immediately to transform their mornings and, consequently, their entire day.

Transcript

[Ginny Urich]

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[Jeff Sanders]

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[Ginny Urich]

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[Jeff Sanders]

Well, thank you. Excited to be here today.

[Ginny Urich]

Okay, so this is the whole thing about our mornings can be something more. This is what we're going to be talking about. And I like to sleep in.

[Jeff Sanders]

I mean, I do too. Let's not get ourselves here. I think for me, early mornings are, it's a personal choice. It's intentional, it's not necessarily by nature. Right. I had to train myself to do. I have to retrain myself to even do it now. So there's a lot we could dig into in terms of that. But I think it's early mornings are awesome. If you make them work, there's a lot of benefits there.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, I've got to do it. Let me tell you partially why. Partially because my kids, they finally sleep in. So you know, when you've got kids, they get up early. When our kids were young, it was like it didn't matter what time you got up, they would get up at the same time. So you're like, I'm going to get at 4:30. And I don't know what it would be. It was like they could sense that you were awake and then they would get up. So you, you kind of just quit because you're like, this is kind of awful. But now we're at the age where I could get up earlier than them and kind of get the day going. And so your book got my mind spinning. So what's your story? Your story is that you like to sleep in too. Like your dad would have to splash you with water to get you to wake up. Right.

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, that, that was me as a kid. That was me as a teenager. I definitely got, you know, my, my, my parents wanted me a certain schedule. I didn't want to do it. Um, I think if my parents live with me today, they would do the same thing. They would try to put me on their own schedule. But, yeah, I think it really is one of those where I, I was basically stressed out in my early 20s because I was starting my day late. I was trying to get to work on time and doing so with this last minute hustle. And I realized it was kind of pointless. Like, why am I waking up at the last second just to have to rush through my morning routine to get to work and then feel behind schedule? It just, the whole thing seemed really counterintuitive. And so for me, it was just a simple question of how can I change my routine to just flow better, feel better. And at the time, I was training for a marathon and I just, I was having a hard time squeezing in that marathon training time. And so I thought, well, just perfect, I'll just go run before work, try that for the first time, see what happens. And the very first day, I was hooked. It was just this amazing feeling of my morning has value now. It feels good now. It's like important to me now. And then I would get to work feeling energized, feeling excited. Like that changed my whole life in a single morning just to try one new strategy. And so that became the foundation for essentially my entire brand. From my blog at the time to my podcast, to my book, to all the work I do today with speaking engagements and coaching. It all comes from the simple idea of being intentional. And that was really all this came down to was can I simply identify a place in my life that isn't working, be more intentional, be strategic, and just find new, a new simple solution. And the first one I tried worked. And I was like, this is it, let's go.

[Ginny Urich]

It is amazing because you talk about how it's this sort of foundational habit or cornerstone habit, and then a lot of other things stack upon that. I love that you said perfect, because I think most people will be like, not perfect perfect, but in one day it changed your life. So this is a big thing. It is wild that a one day thing could change your life, isn't it? Like, so many things take so long. So this is great. You said you were starting your day late. How do you know what's on time? That's a weird question, but like, okay, you're starting it late. And you're rushing. How do you know what time to start your day so that you're not starting it late? Because I know you say the 5am is not necessarily the thing. You write 5am like it's the same as us. We say we're trying to get outside for a thousand hours or oh, if you get out for 992, okay, whatever. If you get out for 610, it doesn't really, really matter. Right, right. And like that's what you're saying about your 5am it could be something else. So how do you figure out what time you should get up so that you're not late?

[Jeff Sanders]

It's a great question. I think that for me the simple answer was I had a certain set of habits I wanted to guarantee were done so that I could leave the house with a sense of I've got my ducks in a row. Like, I had a few key things. I mean, at the time I, I was working at a college and so, you know, I had to put on a suit and tie, I had to have my, you know, to go coffee. Like I had this list of very specific things that once these were done, I could leave the house and feel like I'm ready to begin my workday now. And so that just comes down to a kind of personal preference on what you want to experience. What do you want, how do you want to feel as this routine unfolds? And so at first it was just simply, don't be stressed out going to the office that day. Then it became, well, what if my mornings could be more? What if I could do something of significance before I even leave the house? And so that's where this 5Amiracle concept kicked in for me was let's just choose one thing I could do that would be of value early in the morning when no one else is awake, it's just me. I have time by myself. How can I optimize that? You know, whether it's reading or running or yoga or a business project or journaling, like, pick any activity and make it the thing you want to do. And then all of a sudden that can define the wake up time. If you reverse engineer what it is you want to see done before you leave the house.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, I liked that because I actually thought about one of the wordings was really cool. It's like, well, if you had 15 minutes or you had 30 minutes, what would you do with it? And I know you talk about all of these different things and a lot of people do like, it's like, well, you could exercise or you could read or you could meditate or you could work on goals. But I was like, oh, like, what if I played the piano? It's interesting what you pick because I can see how you could tell that I've not really done it. You can see how it would make you excited to get up.

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, that for me was the thing. I use this phrase to bounce out of bed with enthusiasm. I love that phrase because to me, that was exactly how I felt when this whole thing started was I wanted to have this sense of urgency that was based on if excitement and real enthusiasm of beginning my day to do something I'm looking forward to as opposed to this drudgery of, oh boy, another day is beginning. Hit the alarm clock at the snooze button. You know, I hate this morning. Like, I don't want to hate my mornings, I don't want to hate my day. And so how can I just, you know, spin that around and say, what if I loved my morning? So what would that look like? And it's just a simple question of, like, how do I stick in an activity that is going to have that, that emotional draw for me? And then once I have that, just build habits around guaranteeing that can happen as often as possible.

[Ginny Urich]

I love it. It's good. This is good. You wrote, waking up early to tackle my grandest goals would be the greatest personal and professional decision I have made in years and possibly ever. It's a big statement. And you even talk about. I mean, the book is called the 5am Miracle because it really is. Doesn't make a lot of logical sense. It's like, well, there's always going to be the same amount of hours in a day. So what if you save your significant things for the evening? Or what if you sleep? Like, what's the difference of sleeping 8 to 5 or 9 to 6 as opposed to midnight to 8? But it really is a thing that actually does change things. Why? How?

[Jeff Sanders]

I think that one example you just brought up here is the hours you choose to sleep I found to be significant in my own life because for the most part, on the evenings where, let's say I'll stay up until 11 or midnight, the hours between basically 8pm and whatever time I go to bed are almost always wasted. Whatever hours those are, I'm generally going to watch tv. I'll probably drink a glass of wine or two. I'll make some decision that, like, isn't beneficial. It's not really pushing me forward at all. It's just almost like a time waster. Versus if I go to bed early and, and wake up early, then that same, you know, couple of hours in the evening are now me awake early in the morning and I'm doing something active. So same 24 hours in the day, but somehow I'm using them more intelligently and getting more value from them. And then the bad habits are reduced, the good habits are increased. It just, it works better mathematically. If you look at the, at the calendar, what would this do for you? If you just shifted a couple of things and then time opens up, that's more valuable.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. That is really interesting. And I would imagine a lot of it has to do with light because light guides our body. So if you take those four hours from 8 to midnight, which are dark for the most part, and you switch them from 5 to 9, then you're hitting the sunrise and you've got that morning bright infusion of light. So it is a miracle.

[Jeff Sanders]

It can be. Yeah. I literally, when I wake up at sunrise, like right now, it's summer, so it's very bright at 5:00am and you just, you feel this sense of the day is starting without me and to some degree like it's already begun. And here I am waking up late, not experiencing it. And it's, it's a, it is a miraculous experience to be able to say, like, it's just me, the sunrise, some birds chirping, let's go do something cool. I just, it's a feeling, it's like an emotional feeling you don't get if you miss that window.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. And you certainly don't feel that way at 10pm you just feel like laying around and eating snacks and watching television.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

Or scrolling on your phone. It's, it's totally different. Okay, super interesting. Okay, I'm convinced. One of the things that you talk about then is you make a plan for how your day will go. Have you always done that or is that a newer thing?

[Jeff Sanders]

I didn't start that until basically the five a miracle concept kicked in for me. So before that I had like a loose plan. But I wasn't nearly as intentional with my life as I was around about my mid-20s or so. @ the same time period, I also took over a new role. My company I was working at where I was basically in charge of logistics. And so I had to be detail oriented for the job. And that carried over into my personal life right away. Cause I realized I need systems for my office, I need systems for my house, I need systems for my Daily routine. Like, I need to build out intentionality across the board. And as soon as that happened, it was like, oh, wait a minute, this actually works. Like, when I'm intentional and I make choices on purpose and I design my day, I get so much more value for my time. And it's just simply because I'm choosing how the day could unfold. I mean, it's all a guess. I'm hoping it'll go that way, but I'm so much more likely to achieve even half of what I want if I set out to do so purposefully on paper. And that, since then, has carried over to become how I live now. But I had to learn this. It was a skill I had to develop by practicing this over time and tweaking it constantly to find out what works and what doesn't and what's best. In this season of my life versus another, these things change all the time. So I have to be willing to adapt as my life unfolds.

[Ginny Urich]

I love that, Jeff, because our lives change every day. There's a little bit of flux. And so if you wake up late and you're rushing, there is no time to give thought to how is this day going to unfold. And like you said, even if it doesn't go according to plan, at least you put some thought into it. And then each day you're adjusting a little bit as you go. You did right. Creating an intentional written plan for your days is everything. It's a number one strategy for achieving your own 5am miracle. So that's a practice you've continued to do then?

[Jeff Sanders]

Oh, yeah. It's definitely the kind of thing that once I got into the habit of planning out my day on paper, like, that has stuck around for a long time. I don't see that going away anytime soon because it's just always. There's always a need for intentionality. The busier I get. I mean, I've got two young girls at home. My life is crazier now than it's ever been for lots of reasons. And so it just. It reinforces my systems because I. I need them. Like, I'm desperately needing some, like, rock solid foundation every day to guide me in what the next most important best choice would be. And so having a plan just allows me to. To craft that every day.

[Ginny Urich]

Oh, I like it. How can we still get outside? Right. Okay. So you can craft that into your plan in the morning, but I love that giving some thought in the morning, just some mental space to be able to figure out how your Day is going to go and you've got a lot of ideas for that in your book, the 5:00am Miracle. Actually, before we go on the subtitle here is dominate your day before breakfast, which I love. Can you tell us you offer a ton. I mean, you've got a club, a community, you've got your podcast, the 5am Miracle podcast. You have got your website, you speak, you're a motivational speaker. So we're going to jeffsanders.com and the 5am Miracle podcast. Anything else you want to tell people about so that they can know where to find you.

[Jeff Sanders]

I mean, that's the, that's the core places right there. The five eight Miracle Podcast really breaks down most of what I teach here. I'm really, that's. I'm most passionate and available on the podcast. So that's the place to go to learn a lot. Of course, jeffsanders.com is a great place as well.

[Ginny Urich]

Okay, so that's there. So in this 5am Miracle book, one of the things you also talk about then is that after your morning work sessions you say, okay, I thought this was a big statement. After my morning work sessions, I'm usually able to take it easy for the rest of the day. Tell me more. I want to know about taking it easy. I think people want to know about taking it easy.

[Jeff Sanders]

I basically in that right now it's 2pm where I'm here in Nashville. And so to a certain degree I have not to say that I'm taking it easy with you, but what I'm saying is that to a large degree that the most important objectives that I had set out for myself for the day, I got that done before lunch because that's when I'm most caffeinated, most awake, most like, prepared to dig into things with intention. So my goal in most cases is do all the work for today before lunch and then after lunch. In theory, I do things that won't require nearly as much of like my full mental self. Now for an interview I need to be on. I've got some green tea with me here. Like I'm, I'm ready here. But on an average day, my afternoons are slow, right? I'm really like, I'm doing things that are important, but they're not urgent. I'm doing things I want to work on and not things I have to do. So. So I shift the rhythm of the day to say the morning is my most intense focus. Blocks. Let's get to it. And the afternoons, it's a different rhythm and I'm really asking myself, how can I just kind of smooth out the edges? I'll do more admin work. I'll schedule future days. So it's just a simple question of taking advantage of your best hours in the day. And then you schedule what's most important to you during those best hours. And so that for me is always about 7am to noon. Is I'm on fire then, like that's. My brain is most alert. So I want to make sure that whatever matters is scheduled in that timeframe if I can. And that tends to work best for me in terms of a rhythm for an ideal day.

[Ginny Urich]

Isn't that interesting? Because I've read that you really only have four to five productive hours in a day anyway.

[Jeff Sanders]

Right.

[Ginny Urich]

That you really don't have eight. And so that's actually a great way to live because. Because then you do get some downtime. I think that would be something I would be nervous about, especially with having kids, is if I'm up early and I'm kind of like working out and I don't have that much time. Cause the kids are gonna get up early too. And then I'm losing that nighttime piece of relaxation and unwinding. You're still getting it. It's just been shifted.

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, and recently I've added in doing a meditation after I eat lunch. And so I'm actually shifting myself mentally into a different state of kind of like living and working. So my afternoons are much more chill than they've been in the past. And I'm doing that on purpose because I want to see that shift from high intense work to a different rhythm that's now calmer. And that, to me, has been a very effective transition in the day.

[Ginny Urich]

Well, that's so cool. I want to know more. So it's a transition meditation kind of.

[Jeff Sanders]

I mean, to a certain degree, that's how it plays out for me. I'm not the kind of guy who takes naps. I don't tend to. I don't relax very often. So. So when I meditate, it's this very intentional, like, okay, Jeff, sit down and don't do anything for 20 minutes. And it's hard for me to do it, which is exactly why I'm doing it. Because I need to challenge myself to live and work in a different way sometimes. And so that to me, is a personal challenge to sit. I put on some headphones, listen to just very quiet meditative music. And for 20 minutes I just sit there. And then I, from there can move into my afternoon in a way that feels so much calmer than it has in the past. I'm less frenetic, I'm less stressed about various things, so it has become like a mental health refreshing activity and I love it.

[Ginny Urich]

That's really cool. I think we talk about transitions for kids all the time, but we never talk about transitions for adults. So it's a really practical solution for anyone. I like that idea. I want to try that.

[Jeff Sanders]

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[Ginny Urich]

You actually do something similar at night. You transition to bed. One of the things that you talked about was at 8 o'clock it was right then, right, right around there, it was like you put your, you know, you're completely done with work, your phone goes off. Tell us what you do.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yeah, so the goal of my evenings is to another transition, another shift there if possible. I want to detach from the workday fully as an entrepreneur. Like I can work whenever I want to, wherever I want, which is a massive problem because it means I don't ever shut it off unless I'm do so on purpose. So I literally have to like turn off the laptop, turn off the phone and I mean like power them down. Like it's not just like close a laptop, like turn it off, put it away. It takes that kind of, you know, a definitive line, the sand for me to stop. And I need to find an evening activity then that's just different. And so sometimes it's tv, sometimes my wife and I hang out, I play a board game. Like just find something that's going to allow me to shift my energy at that point in the day so that when it is time to go to sleep, like I'm already mentally there, I've already turned, you know, the lights in the house already going down because my kids go to bed at 7, 7:30. And so the house is already quiet and dark. And so I've already made a shift to a certain degree to this is now a different rhythm for my evening. And that's really helpful because then when it's time to go to sleep, I'm already halfway there and I can fall asleep a lot faster because of that. So it's a really nice easy way to make that shift to sleeping.

[Ginny Urich]

It's enticing. It's all enticing.

[Jeff Sanders]

It is.

[Ginny Urich]

And all really good ideas. I like the ideas of transitioning, transitioning your environment, transitioning what you're doing for. I mean I think for the most, for most of us, the day just kind of like runs and that's, you know, it's, that's it. I mean there's none of that, there's none of that sort of like switching from work mode to evening mode or family mode or even just the Morning mode. So really good ideas in this book, the 5:00am Miracle dominate your day before breakfast. I love it. Okay. You're a big reader, but you didn't used to be. So you talk about that. You, you know, one of the things that you might do at night is you might grab a book. Yeah, you turn off all your things, you might grab a book, but you didn't used to be a reader. So you wrote you had spent 23 years of life dreading having to read.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

And the first book that fully captured your attention, one of your bosses gave you. So can you tell us that story?

[Jeff Sanders]

Yeah. So basically I grew up, you know, becoming forced to read for school and you know, as a kid you have to read a lot of books. And I, English class was like my worst class. I didn't, I didn't want to do the assignments, I didn't want to write essays. I, I was just not into any of it. My first job out of college, I was a door to door salesman, which as a job was awful. Just the worst thing ever.

[Ginny Urich]

I could never do that job.

[Jeff Sanders]

Oh, it's, it's the worst.

[Ginny Urich]

How do you deal with rejection?

[Jeff Sanders]

It killed me. I was there for nine weeks and I quit. I couldn't handle it. It was torture. But some people could handle it. I can't wait.

[Ginny Urich]

What did you sell?

[Jeff Sanders]

Oh, Verizon business phone service upgrades.

[Ginny Urich]

Were there a lot of takers?

[Jeff Sanders]

I can't even tell you how awful this was. This was. I think I literally converted three customers in nine weeks. And the goal is to do like 10 a day. Like I was just so far from what I should have done. Anyway, so my boss loved personal growth and he loved John Maxwell, who's a famous speaker and author. And so he gave me one of his books called you'd Roadmap for Success. And the book itself is fairly. It's fine, it's not a fantastic book, but for me, it was the first book I ever read that, that I wanted to read all the way through, that I was just so bought into. And it opened this whole new world to me of personal growth and this idea that I was the change I was seeking, that if I wanted something new, I could just go do it and make it happen myself. And it, it changed my entire trajectory on life at that point. And I realized, like, that's what I want to do for a living. Somehow or another. I want to do in essence what John Maxwell was doing. And so from then I was obsessed with devouring books, documentaries, you know, articles, whatever. I get my hands on to learn more about these new topics. I was all of a sudden interested in which that for me was the big deal is this curiosity piece. I was. I wanted to learn. And once you want to learn something, it's everywhere. You can find, all over the place, and then you can dig into whatever you want. And I just. It changed my whole life overnight to be able to say I want this and I can go get it all the time. And it's great.

[Ginny Urich]

It is great. You wrote, I'm a voracious reader, and I love nothing more than highlighting a book to death. I mean, I totally agree. I'm right there with you. So give us a couple ideas. Like you have some ideas in this book. The 5am Miracle. Give us like one or two ideas of a book someone should read that will inspire them. A recommended reading from Jeff.

[Jeff Sanders]

So I think that some of the. Some of the top books that I've read have a lot to do with filtering things that don't matter. So you can do the things that do matter. And one of the biggest ones I read a few years ago is essentialism by Greg McEwen. He also has a second book called Effortless. They kind of pair together pretty well. So the essentialist perspective is one of becoming an essentialist, or basically saying, here are my essentials for my life, and the rest I just let go of. And this idea of almost minimalism to a certain degree, but you're applying it to this idea of there's a few core things that matter to me and the rest kind of doesn't. And as long as those core things get done, I'm good. And I love this idea of being able to pare down my life, take the. The noise, you know, social media and phone calls and texting, and life just can get very messy and noisy. And I love this idea that things can be very simple because that's where a lot of fulfillment comes from, a lot of joy comes from. And more productivity comes from that. More, you know, output comes from that, too. But it's because you're focused, because you're dialed in on something specific. So his book is phenomenal. And then what also goes well with that is a book called the One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan, which helps to identify what these core items might be. So their question, this book is what's the one thing such that by doing it, everything else is easier or unnecessary? Which is really a hard question to answer, which is the point, because you're trying to figure out if I Only did one thing. What would that one thing be? And how would that impact my life, my business, my family? And then when you're able to answer that question and actually do the activity, you then ask the question again. Well, now it's the one thing the first one's done, and it just, it forces you to, to filter and focus in a way that nothing else ever has for me. So it's, it's hard to answer, and that's the point. And then you do it, and then all of a sudden it opens a whole new world possibility, which I love.

[Ginny Urich]

Is it super personal or can you give us an example?

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, I mean, essentially you're looking for, let's, let's say the five. A miracle could be that answer of what's the one thing in my daily routine that would change my life? Well, if I woke up earlier, that would give me a couple of hours to do an activity that I love. And then all of a sudden that changes my day. And so you could simply say, if all I did was wake up early, that's the first thing. And then once you're awake, you know, at 5am you might say, well, what's the one thing I would do with this new time that would change my life? Maybe it's exercise, maybe it's reading, whatever it is, fill in the blank. But then you do that activity and then all of a sudden you can ask the question again. Well, now what's the one thing that would change my life more than anything? Whether it's get a new job or do better at my job or what, you just figure out the next evolution of your day and your life. And this book is basically forcing you to address difficult questions you probably ignored for a long time or, you know, hard things you want to, you know, postpone. I like the challenge of being able to say I can opt into a challenge today.

[Ginny Urich]

It's good advice. And I liked this quote, which was from the book Essentialism that you just talked about. If it isn't a clear yes, then it's a clear no. Oh, that's a big statement.

[Jeff Sanders]

I use that all the time. I use that all the time. It's amazing how much that clarifies what to do and not to do.

[Ginny Urich]

It's interesting because as an entrepreneur, you do get a lot of inbound things. So, I mean, that could be really helpful in figuring out what you're going to do with your life. That's like a big mindset shift, for sure. It's a clear no.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes, that's. That's how I. I mean, whenever I get to your point, like a new request or new. A new idea, for me, I get tons of ideas myself of things I want to do all kinds of projects I could be involved in. I mean, to the point you made earlier. Like, I'm involved in a lot of things. I have been involved in a lot of things, and I start new things all the time. And I always try to figure out, well, is this thing a clear yes to continue, or is it a clear yes to let go of and quit and stop doing it? Like, I need to figure out where to put my energy into, because I can't do everything even though I want to. And so for me, it's really important to be able to pare down my ideas to just what's going to get my attention the most. And that can be hard sometimes.

[Ginny Urich]

But it's interesting because you totally do it. Because before we pop down, I was like, well, you've got this and that and this. What? You know, what do you want to make sure that we cover? And you said just the podcast. That was your one thing.

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, and that's kind of the point. Like, I've got. Yeah, I've got identify the one thing that really makes the biggest difference. And I know for my business, as an example, if somebody finds my podcast, they hear my content there, then they tend to dig into the rest of my work. You know, naturally, I don't have to go tell them a thousand things. Just tell them the one thing and let the rest flow from there.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. The 5:00am Miracle podcast ranked number one in Apple podcasts in the self improvement in business category. Nominated for seven podcast awards. I didn't even know there were podcast awards. So now I'm actually feeling kind of salty. And you've exceeded 13. And this might even be old. 13 million downloads. So that's a place to go. That's the one thing. The one thing. Go there, go there. Learn more. Lots of things that you can find at the podcast. I like that you highlighted that other high achievers do this. Other high achievers get up early. And you highlighted a bunch of those. Let's hit some of the questions you talk about in the book, the 5am Miracle. Some of the questions that come in are, what if I'm up late? What do I do?

[Jeff Sanders]

I have friends who think that the 5Amiracle is nonsense and they teach productivity. So we have really interesting perspectives on this. I have one friend who, he refuses to go to bed before midnight. Like, that's just not his Thing. So it's really a question of if you're staying up late and you want to, and that's a choice because you feel better, then I'm not going to stop you. Like, this is not about, like, it's not about shifting your routine in a way that's unnatural. Like, I'm trying to find a fit that is ideal for the lifestyle you want to live, for the work schedule you have. And so it's not always going to be a good fit at 5am but to that degree, if you are staying up late, just a little thumbs up on the screen. If you are staying up late and you want to be able to not do that anymore, if your goal is to actually wake up early, then you can make that happen by simply asking that question. What if I went to bed 15 minutes early? What if I then woke up 15 minutes earlier than that? And you just kind of shift your life a little bit at a time, these small transitions to test it, to find out what works for you and what doesn't.

[Ginny Urich]

And one of the things you say is even if you're up late once, or here and there, like sleep in sleep, how your body needs to sleep, but don't make that a habit. So interesting ideas there. What about, okay, here's a question. What about, and this is a big one. What about navigating around other people? This is actually a really tricky one, Jeff, because you're like, okay, depending on the size of your home, I would be like, well, I want to get up and in the living room, I want to do an exercise video. That's what I like, you know, like, you know, and it's going to wake everybody up or the movement, it's going to shake the house and all that stuff. I mean, there's a lot of considerations there, especially if we've got kids. So how do we do this in consideration with the other people that are around us?

[Jeff Sanders]

So this is actually a really good point considering that I have two young girls in my house and if I wake up before they do, which is most mornings I have to sneak around my house like, you know, my hair's on fire, really, really quiet. And then I usually just go into my living room and I will read or I'll work on emails or something that is very quiet on purpose because I don't wake them up. Mostly because my wife gets annoyed if the girls are up too early and then our schedules change and then she can't sleep. It causes this chain reaction of chaos. And so I know that for me the best choice is to be very quiet. Some mornings, actually, I'll sneak out of the house and just go for a walk. Or you'll find activity outside the house. But that, that is a very good point because your personal choices affect others. And if you're not able to yet define a compromise here, that works for everyone. So I don't get up at 5am at this point. It's usually 5:45, because that's the only time I can really make this work without causing too much disruption. And it works, though we could find a way to still squeeze in what matters to you, make the mornings valuable, but do so in a way that works with the schedules of those around you. So it's, it's a conversation to be had. It's not just a personal choice.

[Ginny Urich]

In most cases, that's really good advice because it's not like you're like, I'm gonna get up and do whatever I want.

[Jeff Sanders]

Right.

[Ginny Urich]

It's not really about that. It's about getting up, setting your intention for the day. It could be just quiet things that you're doing, and that's still going to give you that morning miracle. So that's really good advice. What's the problem with the snooze button?

[Jeff Sanders]

The snooze button does the one thing that I think works against our whole goal here, and that's that it's delaying the day. And if you are, if your very first decision for the day is to not engage in the day, I think it sets the tone for how the rest of the day is going to go. And you really want to say, like, to this degree, if I want to have this emotion of bouncing out of bed, well, I can't do that if I'm just smacking an alarm clock three or four times and the hopes that I can delay the inevitable, it psychologically sets us up for failure. And I would rather start my day with a sense of excitement to the tune of now, I'm usually awake before the alarm goes off, so I'm turning the alarm off myself. And then I begin my day anyway. And my body has gotten used to that. I can rhythmically feel that happening and I don't need to fight it anymore. But that requires me to go to sleep on time, get plenty of good rest. Generally speaking for me, if my mornings are active so, you know, go for a run or workout, my body can anticipate that and will then want to move first thing in the morning the next day. And so there's a habit that can be built in that makes it automatic. And you don't have to fight it. You don't have to train yourself hard. You can just do simple activities that cause you to say, okay, it's 6:00am time to wake up. My body's ready to move. Here we go. And it just flows naturally. That, to me, is ideal.

[Ginny Urich]

And that's where you've gotten to. I mean, that is the part of it, I think that people who don't do this might be, myself included, can't really imagine because, you know, you do it once and you're like, you got to do it a little bit and then you get into it and it becomes this habit.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

And obviously you seem like a very chipper and, you know, enthusiastic person. So it's clearly working. It's clear and very successful. I mean, seven podcast awards. I didn't even know there were podcast awards. So clearly I've not won any. So, I mean, this is great killing it out there.

[Jeff Sanders]

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[Alyssa Blask Campbell]

When it comes to raising kids, there's so much to consider. Things like what do we feed them? When do we feed them? How do they sleep? What does it look like to raise kind kids? How does their nervous system work? How do I keep myself calm? What are my triggers? There's so much that comes into play and we are distilling all of that information for you at Voices of your Village podcast where we bring experts in the field of early childhood and education and psychology and across the board so that you don't have to comb the Internet for information. You get to show up and hang out and have shame free judgment, free conversations and insights into what it looks like to raise kind, empathetic, emotionally intelligent humans. I'm Alyssa Blask Campbell. I have a master's degree in Early Childhood education. I'm a mom of two and I am walking this journey right alongside guide you doing this work. Come hang out with me at Voices of your Village and we can dive into real conversations with actionable tips.

[Ginny Urich]

What about task management tools? So in the 5am Miracle you talk about some different ones and I'm sure things change over time. Do you still use task management tools and if so, which ones?

[Jeff Sanders]

So I still do. I don't think I use about half of what I listed in the book most because tools change so often.

[Ginny Urich]

Well, you were just giving ideas. Things change.

[Jeff Sanders]

One example is Evernote that I no longer use because they changed the app so significantly I can't anymore. But one that I do that I have loved for a long time is called Nozbe. That's spelled N O Z B E. It is a task manager based on David Allen's Getting Things Done book and methodology. So it's basically list based and there's lots of opportunities to create lists for all kinds of areas of your life. I get ideas all day, every day and I'm putting all these ideas into Nozbe and then I filter those ideas and I decide do I keep the idea, yes or no? If I'm not, I delete it. If I am going to keep it, then I put into a list I can review later and then I end up with a great like reservoir of Ideas and tasks I can then accomplish when the time is right. And I schedule all these things out so that when tomorrow morning shows up, a nice new set of tasks will be there for me, some of which I've categorized as due today and I'll get those done. Others are just fluffy ideas if I have time and then if I don't get to them, it's fine. So it's really a question of having tools that work with your brain and your ideal flow. Lots of tools exist out there, I find to be kind of overwhelming. There's too many bells and whistles attached to them, and that works against how I want to feel every day. I don't want to look at my to do list and feel overwhelmed if that's the case, I've done something wrong. Like I need my list to reflect how like the emotional state for the day. So simple is best, shorter is best. So me spending a lot of time deleting tasks is a big part of my day. Like, don't do that bad idea. That's distracting. Which then pares it down to a few key things that do matter. And then all of a sudden deciding what to do Tomorrow morning at 5am is easy, or what to do tomorrow at 2pm is easy, because I know what matters is right in front of me. So that my calendar plus my nosebe task manager, I live and work in those spaces all the time. And that gives me this sense of real clarity on what I've chosen on purpose to do every day.

[Ginny Urich]

That's really interesting, Jeff, because I wrote a list of some of the ones that you had mentioned, but the one you mentioned the most in this book, which is from 2015, so we're talking a decade ago, I'm sure, is when you wrote it. It came out in 2015. So was Nosby. After reading David Allen's Getting Things Done and adopting his methodology, I consolidated all of my tasks, projects, events list and random commitments into nozbe, a singular digital task management system. You said, though I use and love nozbe, there are others you could choose from and then you give a list of some other ones. So that was the main one that I wrote down. It is incredible that a piece of technology like that could still be your top go to one a decade later.

[Jeff Sanders]

That's rare because I change tools all the time and it's awesome to be able to have something that I've relied on for so long that continues to give me that sense of clarity and that I'm still promoting it today. I still want to tell people about it because it is so valuable to me.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, yeah. And it goes along with that. If it's not a clear yes, then it's a clear no. And it would help you to have that clarity. I'm having clarity that if I woke up at 5am and played the piano, that probably isn't going to work. I kind of was excited about it for a minute because it was kind of like, ooh, what could you do with the extra time? And I was like, oh, I could play the piano, but then I would wake everyone up. So I'm thinking I'm going to have to adjust my thoughts.

[Jeff Sanders]

I mean, for a long time I wanted to get a drum set, and my wife talked me out of that idea. And then I found out you can get an electronic drum set so you wear headphones and you can just hear it in your headphones, but it still makes noise. And I still have to do it outside somewhere else to find, you know, it just. There's a lot to consider with the choices. So.

[Ginny Urich]

There is. Okay. This is one of my favorite parts of the book. The book is the 5am Miracle. Dominate your day before breakfast. Okay. There was advanced strategies. I was excited. I was like, I love it. In a book about, you know, high achievers, you have to have a spot for advanced strategies, of course. Okay, so. So let's see. Some of these were, well, music, actually. This was a great one. How do you use music to help with your productivity and energy and making your days better?

[Jeff Sanders]

So I have. One of the things I've created a long time ago was my academy that I call the rockin productivity academy. And I call it that on purpose because to me, my best days, when they're productive, I use the word rocking on purpose. And I literally mean like rocking out to fun music and high energy. And so for me, choosing music is a big influence on my. My emotional state, on what I'm doing, how I'm doing it. And so as a simple example, if you're doing a monotonous task you've done a thousand times, it's easy to do. You have to do it again. Well, I can turn on the TV in the background. I can play fun music. I can like, change the environment to enjoy this boring task. And that works really well for me. I do a lot of those things. Financial updates. I'll play some fun music in the background versus doing a highly creative, focused task where I want to dig in, think about things in a difficult way. Why music that allows me to dig in Deeply without distracting me. And so there are services that offer focused music, which specifically do not include the human voice, because that's very distracting. They just have beats and tones and like a. Just a sound that really taps into your brain waves and forces you into the zone to focus better. The best service I have found is called Brain fm. That's a newer one that I found a few years ago. It's an awesome service. You listen to this music for as long as you want. And if you're doing, if you're writing, if you're reading, if you're studying, it's incredible how it will literally, like, have your brain zone in on what you're doing and block distractions at the same time. So music is a very powerful tool if you want to just really get the most out of the task you're working on at the time.

[Ginny Urich]

I've never done that. And the Brain FM sounds really interesting because you're saying this is music that's like, they base it off of neuroscience.

[Jeff Sanders]

It's written by neuroscientists. They're the ones that craft this music. They know that there's certain brainwaves that are optimized with certain sounds. And so they're really trying to figure out, like, how can we craft draft music that helps people get into their task and not feel the need to be distracted by Facebook or whatever else they're doing. They really want to stay zeroed in.

[Ginny Urich]

Oh, that's cool. All right, what's on your playlist? So, like, you've got Brain fm, but what's on your playlist?

[Jeff Sanders]

My personal. Well, I mean, that changes all the time, but, like, I like rocking, high energy music. Techno music is always great. Which actually techno is similar to the Brain FM service because anything that has a strong beat keeps me energized. And so I love high energy is best for me. It just really keeps me wanting to work longer hours without feeling like I'm working longer. So, I mean, yes, rock and roll. Linkin park has been a band I've used for decades. Imagine dragons. Like, I like anything that forces you into the state of, like, not just euphoria, but, like, I'm in this now, like, really committed. And so I just. I love that kind of stuff.

[Ginny Urich]

Okay, so that's an advanced strategy music. An advanced strategy is a standing desk. And I thought this was interesting because, well, on the surface I would think you would be exhausted. So you talked about, you know, sometimes you would be standing at a desk for eight hours or six hours in a day. And you wrote, it has made a tremendous difference in my productivity, my digestion, my energy.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

How could you have more energy after being at a standing desk right now?

[Jeff Sanders]

I'm staying up right now. This is the place to be.

[Ginny Urich]

No way.

[Jeff Sanders]

Oh, yeah. I'm moving around like this is. I've been in a standing desk like this for, I don't know, over 10 years now, at least. The first one that I had was a traditional desk that I then modified to become a standing desk. I actually diyed myself a solution and built it up. It would look. Looked terrible. So after a while, I had to tear it down. And during COVID I bought an uplift desk, which is much more expensive. But oh, my gosh, it's a game changer because you can adjust these from sitting to standing and customize the exact height you want. A press of button and this thing will raise and lower at will. And then you can choose to stand or choose to sit or choose the height that's best for you. I'm a little bit taller than the average person, so the desk being able to go up a little higher is fantastic for me. And so anything that allows you to tap into this idea of movement throughout the day, I found to be a game changer for that. So I do sit down during the day, but usually it's just when I eat lunch or I have an activity or I need to sit down, but otherwise I choose to stand more often because it's just forces me into this idea of motion and movement and energy that otherwise I don't get. If I'm sitting down, it just causes me to, over time, really almost like atrophy. Like, I just feel like I'm losing a sense of my potential. And once I made that shift to standing, it was just like, well, this is it. This is my whole life. Here we go. Like, I'm. I'm sold. So that's it.

[Ginny Urich]

Man, these. These singular changes have made such a big difference. And what is so bizarre, because I was like, I'm going to bring up the standing desk, but it looks like he's sitting, but you're not. And that. That's weird.

[Jeff Sanders]

Well, I've got my camera pointed at me from up above, but, yeah, this is. I'm at the desk right now. It's awesome. There's a picture on my website that has my studio. You can see the whole thing. But it's. Yeah, it's a. It's a fun, fun thing to have.

[Ginny Urich]

Wow. Okay. The uplift desk. This is for advanced strategies. Okay. Here's another one. Gravity boots. Okay, so here's the thing I have to tell you. First of all, I've never heard of this. So I was like, I've definitely heard of inversion. I've heard of being upside down and how that there's benefits. You know, I didn't totally know all of the different ones, but I've never heard of gravity boots. So in my mind I'm thinking, what is this? Like? I'm thinking they're like, are they huge boots and they allow you to like walk up the wall and then be connected to the ceiling? In my mind, I'm trying to figure out what these are. And then I watched one YouTube video, and I don't know if there's a bunch of different varieties, but it kind of freaked me out. Jeff. It was like these boots, they were boots and they were kind of big and it had like a hook on them. And so the guy who was showing it was like hanging from a, like a pull up bar and then he walked his feet up the wall and then he hung himself upside down with the hooks on the boots and then he was upside down. But then I was kind of panicked because what if you got stuck there?

[Jeff Sanders]

So, yes, to all the things you just said. I have those exact gravity boots and I don't climb up the wall. I do this kind of like crunch where I kind of like the flex my abs to get them up there. So the getting up and getting down part, by far the hardest part of the whole thing. I do not do this by yourself. Like have someone, an adult at home with some muscles, like it's. You need someone to save you in case you get stuck. And I say that only because there are inversion tables, which I used to own as well. Actually, my parents have my old one now because you can just strap yourself to the table, you can easily adjust those by yourself to get yourself back from being inverted to being back upright. It's way safer with those. Gravity boots require more physicality, they are more dangerous. But you have a ton of range of motion. You can do literally an inverted exercise program with squats and sit ups and the whole thing. So it becomes way more than just being upside down. It literally is a workout program if you want it to be. So it's. It's not directly tied to productivity or waking up early. It's just like a personal fascination of mine to do things that are different and to do things that literally change your perspective on life. In this case, literally flipping upside down. But it's just this question of, can I do things to challenge myself, to see my life in a new way, to get health benefits from it? And inversion and gravity boots, oddly enough, are part of the conversation. Did not see that coming. But it's been there for a long.

[Ginny Urich]

Time because I was like, if no one else is there and you couldn't lift yourself back up to grab the.

[Jeff Sanders]

Bar, yeah, you'd be stuck. So I always have my cell phone with me as well whenever I'm upside down. So I know worst case scenario, I'm calling 911 if I have to or my neighbor or something. But usually I only do this my wife is at home because otherwise it just. It does kind of freak me out.

[Ginny Urich]

Have you ever had to get saved?

[Jeff Sanders]

No. Fortunately, I do have a history of. I had back surgery five years ago, and so I. There's a risk that my back could just spaz on me while I'm upside down. So I'm very aware that it's a high risk activity, but I'm also aware that it's really good for me if I could do it well. So I still do it. I still think it's a fantastic activity. But if you were nervous to do the gravity boots, an inversion table is very close to the benefits of that, and they're still awesome and very safe. So I feel like that's the best way to go.

[Ginny Urich]

I flipped upside down in a hammock over the weekend and got stuck.

[Jeff Sanders]

It can happen.

[Ginny Urich]

I looked at the gravity boots and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I'd be able to do it. But you do it for 10 minutes. You say I invert every day. This is 10 years old. You look younger now than even in this picture. This is 10 years old. So this stuff is working. You do 10 minutes a day after your run. It's your favorite way to cap off a great workout, correct?

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

You've got a cool life, Jeff.

[Jeff Sanders]

This is great.

[Ginny Urich]

This is great. Okay, so those were some of the advanced strategies. I love it. There's a whole lot of very practical things in this book. The 5:00am Miracle. It's like worksheets and different types of schedules that you could do. You have questions at the end of each chapter, different action steps that people could do, and questions about your anchor habits and your complimentary habits. And it's very, very practical if you want to get more out of your life. So I love that. Let's hit one more topic from the book because it's very applicable to this audience. And I really just love this thought of like, man, if 7 to 12am p.m. 7am to 12pm is your really highly productive time, and then you get to shift, you do your meditation and you shift, you can have a lot more fun. So one of the concepts in this book is to play hard. Most people want a life where they work hard and then play hard. Nobody's playing hard though, really?

[Jeff Sanders]

I did in college.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah.

[Jeff Sanders]

Which is a different conversation. But basically like my college lifestyle is where this whole thing came from was I was studying and working hard in class and then I was totally not working when I was with my friends. Like, we were just. It was 100% not school for a while. So my life is the juxtaposition of hardcore work and then hardcore play. And I had both of those things. My life today looks very different, but I still have this longing for what does fun look like today and how do I incorporate more of that? And so a lot of my fun to the point I made earlier, comes from fun music while I'm working. It can come from going for a great hike in the park. I'd like to incorporate things that like, bring out the best in me and that becomes a lot of what my fun is. My wife and I were joking recently that our, like, going to the club version now is like a 6pm dance party with our girls before bed. And like 6pm is my new midnight. Like, that's what I'm doing. So we'll just make it happen. But if we do, like, my life is still fun. It's built in, it's purposeful, it's awesome. And that's, that's my life now. So there you go. And I, I just want to make sure that fun is never left out of the equation, no matter how much work I'm actually, I'm doing there.

[Ginny Urich]

Jeff, I love it. 6pm is your new midnight. It's like when it's New Year's Eve and you don't want to stay up that late and you got little kids and you can do the ball drop like way earlier and they have no idea. Yeah, it's like such a great strategy because even in this book you said, I mean, you're kind of shutting things down at 8:00pm, which, I mean, it feels pretty early, but you can still have fun.

[Jeff Sanders]

When I made this shift in my mid-20s, I thought like, well, I'm like retirement age now. All of a sudden I'm like having dinner at 4:30. Like it just. The whole thing felt very strange. But at the Same time. It's like I have to define for myself what an ideal day looks like. And if that means going to bed earlier, waking up earlier, and that brings out the best in me, then that's the shift I'm going to make. I'm. I'm totally willing to make those changes if I know the benefits are there.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about a homeschool mom that's listening, and it's like, okay, well, you get up at six and you got a half hour, 45 minutes. Hopefully your kids aren't. Maybe they're up, but maybe not. Or maybe 5:45. 5:45 sounds good. You got this maybe 20 minutes where you can figure out your meals, you can figure out what the day's going to hold. And then if seven to noon was this, schoolwork, cleaning, chores, and then it would be like, then you go to the park for the rest of the day. Maybe it's prepping your dinner. I mean, I like this. I like this. I kind of think that's how we live, is work hard, play hard. We'll have a, you know, a day of podcasting or a day of whatever. And then I'm like, well, the next day I want to go to the beach, we're going to go to Lake Michigan or something like that. I really like living that way. I like that rhythm. But I think that we're missing the play hard almost completely as a society.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yeah. I mean, most people just work all the time. And if not working, they're doing chores, they're doing obligations, responsibilities. Like life becomes a list of have to's, and that's exhausting. And you can't do that for too long before it burns you out. And I've got a whole series of my life. My early 20, early 30s, actually. I had panic attacks and had all this series of super high stress. I've been there. I know it's like to. To do the work hard thing way too much. And that's why I have to be intentional taking care of myself, because it's just. It's for my. The safety of my life. I need to, like, love what I'm doing sometimes. And to neglect fun and neglect joy. It takes the kind of point away from all the work you're doing. I feel like I need to. To do more of that.

[Ginny Urich]

Yeah, you have to prioritize it. Most people want a life where they work hard, then play hard. Most noted they did not want a life of mediocrity. Sameness or consistency. They want varied variability, which time outside gives you that because it's always different. Even if you go do the same thing, living at the same pace every is exhausting, no matter how fast or slow the speed actually appears to be. So fantastic. Book the 5am Miracle dominate your day before breakfast. What can people find at your podcast? What can they expect to hear about at the 5:00am Miracle podcast?

[Jeff Sanders]

So, ironically, I don't discuss early mornings very often anymore. The show has been around for 11 years, so I feel like I've covered those concepts to death. So mostly what I talk about now in the show are our personal growth strategies, productivity hacks. I discovered really anything about the current season of life that I'm in, and I reflect on what that looks like for me now. Literally, as of this recording, Tomorrow is my 40th birthday, and so I am at a really, like, mental, like, not midlife crisis moment, but like a. Oh, my gosh. Like my life is. Is moving somewhere. So my podcast reflects kind of what season of life I'm in and how that plays out for, you know, for productivity and daily habits and these. All these different concepts. And I just, I. 11 years now with the show, I have to get creative of the content is. But it's. It's always a reflection of. Of where I'm at.

[Ginny Urich]

Well, and it's evergreen content, so people can go back and listen. They could probably start at the beginning and just go all the way through. Happy birthday. Your birthday's on a Friday. Your 40th.

[Jeff Sanders]

That's right.

[Ginny Urich]

That's exciting. What a cool thing. Oh, Happy birthday to you. I made my 40s. It's a great decade. I love this decade. I think you're figuring things out a lot. Like, in your 20s and your 30s often is adjustment to children. 20. So 40s is a. It's a good one. It's a solid. A solid decade. That's for sure. Jeff, I so appreciate you being here. I love this book. The 5am Miracle definitely gave me a lot to think about. It was. And. And just I was kind of amused, too. You're always amused by the things that you've never heard of. Like when I watched the gravity boots, YouTube, I was like, whoa. Like. And you're like, okay. The fact that you can buy these boots with these hooks on them. Like, I'm like, this is a whole thing I didn't even know existed. Like, there's a product line.

[Jeff Sanders]

Yes.

[Ginny Urich]

This is great.

[Jeff Sanders]

It's fun.

[Ginny Urich]

I learned a lot. This is a book about Maximizing your productivity, being a rock star at work, slashing your to do list, perfecting your schedule, and making time for fun. Most important, your mornings could be something more so people can check you out in the book and on the podcast. Jeff, we always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside side?

[Jeff Sanders]

I was in Boy Scouts for a long time, and we did tons of really fun camp outs that as a kid, I actually didn't love as much as I love them. Now looking back at them, like my memory of it is better than the actual experience, but it's definitely one of those where we had. I had so much opportunities to be outside. One of the very first campouts that I did was in the middle of winter, and I left the tent flap open and it snowed in my tents while I was sleeping. And I have this very clear memory of being freezing cold and somehow still loving that weekend. And so, yeah, I have a lot of outdoor time I've loved, but I think the Scouting program for me was it was a personal challenge as a kid to engage the outdoors in a way that I wouldn't have otherwise. And so it was good in a lot of ways.

[Ginny Urich]

Awesome. It's amazing how the. The disaster things tend to sort of stick in your mind because, I don't know, they're out of. Out of the norm. And it snowed in your tent and what a thing. I love it. Well, Jeff, thank you so, so much for being here. I really appreciate it. I'm definitely going to some of these things. I'm not going to be able to play piano when I first wake up, but there are a lot of other ideas. I really like the one about transitions, the music, a lot of it. And I so appreciate having these practical ideas that we could implement right now to give us better lives. So thanks for being here.

[Jeff Sanders]

Thank you.